2006-01-17
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 17, 2006
INDEX
Freshwater Wetlands FWW 5-2005 Jeffrey Kilburn 1.
Tax Map No. 295.15-1-30
Site Plan No. 64-2005 Jeffrey Kilburn 2.
Tax Map No. 295.15-1-30
Site Plan No. 67-2005 Jeffrey Schwartz 3.
Tax Map No. 308.20-1-2
Subdivision No. 1-2005 J. Michael Blackburn 18.
PRELIMINARY STAGE Tax Map No. 253.-1-18
FINAL STAGE
Site Plan No. 70-2005 Ellen Winch 25.
Tax Map No. 290.-1-9.2
Subdivision No. 27-2005 Shirley Harvey 30.
PRELIMINARY STAGE Tax Map No. 301.17-1-3
FINAL STAGE
Subdivision No. 21-2005 Michaels Group 37.
PRELIMINARY STAGE Tax Map No. 308.19-1-67, 68
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO
BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE
FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL
OF SAID MINUTES.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 17, 2006
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
ROBERT VOLLARO, CHAIRMAN
CHRIS HUNSINGER
ANTHONY METIVIER
THOMAS FORD
THOMAS SEGULJIC
GEORGE GOETZ
MEMBERS ABSENT
GRETCHEN STEFFAN
LAND USE PLANNER-SUSAN BARDEN
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
MR. VOLLARO-Following a statement of presentation by the applicant, there’s going to be a
little bit of different venue here tonight. There’ll be minor dialogue with the Board, and then
I will open the public hearing right after the presentation is made, and public comments will
now be limited to five minutes, and an opportunity for follow up if it substantially adds to the
previous input. When the public comment is complete, I’ll ask Staff if there’s any written
correspondence and have it read into the record. Following the public comment will be
discussion by Board members. I’ll either use Site Plan or Subdivision criteria review material
to discuss the process, then we will determine at that time whether we have sufficient
information to enter into SEQRA. If we do not have sufficient information to enter into
SEQRA, we may have to table the application. If that’s the case, I will most likely leave the
public hearing open and table the application to a specific date. I’ve been asked to do that by
Staff, that we just don’t say we’re tabling. It’s got to be tabled to a date. If we complete
SEQRA satisfactorily, then I will close the public hearing and call on the Board for a
resolution. I thought maybe you’d all like to know a little bit about how we work and how we
do things, and I’d just open it up for the public to get an idea of what happens up here. This
evening we have a couple of things, a little housekeeping to do before we enter into our
regular meeting. One is the approval of minutes of November 15 and November 22, 2005.
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May I have a motion from the Board?
CORRECTION OF MINUTES
November 15, 2005: NONE
November 22, 2005: NONE
MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 15 & NOVEMBER 22, 2005,
Introduced by Thomas Seguljic who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Goetz:
Duly adopted this 17 day of January, 2006, by the following vote:
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AYES: Mr. Goetz, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Vollaro
NOES: NONE
ABSTAINED: Mr. Ford
ABSENT: Mrs. Steffan
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FRESHWATER WETLANDS FWW 5-2005 SEQR TYPE II JEFFREY KILBURN
AGENT(S): JAMES MILLER, RLA OWNER(S): SAME ZONING SFR-1A LOCATION
NORTH SIDE FOX HOLLOW LANE, BETWEEN #22 & #24 APPLICANT PROPOSES A
3,177 SQ. FT. SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING AND IMPROVEMENTS TO AN EXISTING LOG
ROAD. PORTIONS OF THE FILLING ASSOCIATED WITH THE DRIVEWAY OCCUR
WITHIN 50’ OF THE SHORELINE OF A DEC WETLAND. CROSS REF. SP 64-05, SUB
WESTLAND SECT. 15 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING 11/9/05 LOT SIZE 12.9 ACRES
TAX MAP NO. 295.15-1-30 SECTION CHAPTER 94
SITE PLAN NO. 64-2005 SEQR TYPE II JEFFREY KILBURN AGENT(S): JAMES
MILLER, RLA OWNER(S): SAME ZONING SFR-1A LOCATION NORTH SIDE FOX
HOLLOW LANE, BETWEEN #22 & #24 APPLICANT PROPOSES A 3,177 SQ. FT. SINGLE
FAMILY DWELLING AND IMPROVEMENTS TO AN EXISTING LOG ROAD. PORTIONS OF
THE FILLING ASSOCIATED WITH THE DRIVEWAY OCCUR WITHIN 50’ OF THE
SHORELINE OF A DEC WETLAND. FILLING WITHIN 50 FEET OF A WETLAND
REQUIRES SITE PLAN REVIEW BY THE PLANNING BOARD. CROSS REF. FWW/ SUB
WESTLAND SECT. 15 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING 11/9/05 LOT SIZE 12.9 ACRES
TAX MAP NO. 295.15-1-30 SECTION 179-6-60
MR. VOLLARO-Second we have a tabling motion tonight which I’ll get rid of right up front
here. The tabling motion is for Mr. Kilburn, and I’ll make the motion to table Site Plan No.
64-2005 for Jeff and Candy Kilburn to February 28, based on receipt of modified application
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by the close of business on January 17, 2006, which is tonight. I understand from Staff that
it’s been received. Is that correct?
MRS. BARDEN-Actually, I can’t confirm that. I’m not sure that it has. They had until 4:30
this afternoon.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, I realize what date they had. I won’t be able to table until February
28 until I know if the application modification has been received this evening before the
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close of business.
MR. SEGULJIC-Can we do this next week? Can we do this tabling motion next week?
MR. VOLLARO-Well, I think I’ll have to. If I don’t know what it is, then I’d have to
assume that their next, the next date that they can put material in would be February 15,
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and then we would set them up for March 21 or March 28.
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MRS. BARDEN-Okay.
MR. VOLLARO-So if they’ve got it in tonight, I’d like to table it to the 28, if possible.
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MR. HUNSINGER-Was the public hearing held open until this evening? Is that the issue
here?
MR. VOLLARO-The public hearing was, if you remember what happened on that night, we
took 62 days on that evening to make a motion. The 62 days are up as of tomorrow.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, if we don’t take action, then this will automatically be approved.
MR. SEGULJIC-No, the 62 days are up in February. Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s
only true of subdivisions, the 62 days.
MRS. BARDEN-That’s right.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, I think we’re safe here on doing this.
MRS. BARDEN-You want to just hold this and you can table this next week?
MR. VOLLARO-Well, I’ve had conversations with Craig, and Craig thought it was in, at the
desk. I know the desk was piled high at 4:30, and people didn’t know what was exactly
coming in, but he thought that they made the cut for tonight.
MRS. BARDEN-Okay.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. VOLLARO-So I’ll tell you what, I’d like to let the tabling motion stand.
MRS. BARDEN-Okay.
MR. VOLLARO-And if they haven’t had it in, then we’ll have to make a correction to it.
MRS. BARDEN-Okay. So the February 28 meeting?
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MR. VOLLARO-Yes. Is that satisfactory to all the Board members?
MR. FORD-Yes.
MR. SEGULJIC-Yes.
MR. METIVIER-That’s fine.
MRS. BARDEN-Okay.
MR. VOLLARO-This evening we also have election of the Vice Chair and the Secretary per
our policy. This is the policy of the Queensbury Planning Board Policies and Procedures.
MR. GOETZ-I’d like to nominate Chris Hunsinger to be our Vice Chair and Gretchen Steffan
to be our Secretary.
MR. VOLLARO-Do we have a second to that?
MR. FORD-I’ll second that.
MR. METIVIER-I’ll second it.
MOTION TO NOMINATE CHRIS HUNSINGER TO BE VICE CHAIR AND GRETCHEN
STEFFAN TO BE THE SECRETARY OF THE QUEENSBURY PLANNNG BOARD,
Introduced by George Goetz who moved for its adoption, seconded by Thomas Ford:
Duly adopted this 17 day of January, 2006, by the following vote:
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AYES: Mr. Goetz, Mr. Ford, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Vollaro
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Steffan
MR. VOLLARO-And with that, I’d like to open the first application for Jeffrey Schwartz.
OLD BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 67-2005 SEQR TYPE UNLISTED JEFFREY SCHWARTZ AGENT(S):
PETER BROWN OWNER(S): SAME ZONING LI LOCATION 53 CAREY ROAD
APPLICANT PROPOSES A 30,294 SQ. FT. ADDITION TO AN EXISTING 30,851 SQ. FT.
WAREHOUSE BUILDING. EXPANSIONS OF SITE PLAN REVIEW USES REQUIRE
REVIEW BY THE PLANNING BOARD. CROSS REF. SP 69-00, SP 23-99, SUB 6-87
WARREN COUNTY PLANNING N/A LOT SIZE 4.7 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 308.20-1-2
SECTION 179-4-020
PETER BROWN, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. VOLLARO-The public hearing on this application is still open. It’s a Short Form
SEQRA. The SEQRA Type is Unlisted.
MR. BROWN-My name is Peter Brown, and I’m representing Jeff Schwartz tonight who
couldn’t make the meeting and also Bill Montgomery who is in another meeting and can’t
make it either. Basically this building is being built, it’s an addition to an existing building,
okay, and it’s in Carey Industrial Park, which has been in existence since originally approved
by this Board I believe in 1989. Jeff began his building, I think, in 1999, Phase I, which was
only 100 foot by 100 foot. Phase I was constructed in 2001. It was a 10,000 square foot
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
addition which is basically the same, 100 by 100, and Phase III which was completed this last
summer, in 2004, or 2005, and that was a 50 foot by 200 foot addition. So the existing
buildings over there now basically are at 30,000 square feet, a little bit more, 30,351 to be
exact, okay. Now what they want to do is complete the entire project as originally planned
back in 1999, 2000, and so they’re calling it Phase IV, and what they’d like to do is make
another big box, it’s an industrial warehouse. It’s basically 200 feet by 150 feet for 30,000
square feet, and we have complied, I believe, with everything as far as the existing Codes go,
and the plans, I believe, are in front of you. I have extra plans if somebody doesn’t have
theirs. These were resubmitted about, I think about three weeks ago, two weeks ago maybe.
MR. VOLLARO-What’s the date of your update on your plans?
MR. BROWN-It should show revisions on the fire access road, grades and drainage, 1/5/06.
MR. VOLLARO-Correct. Thank you.
MR. BROWN-Basically, I don’t know what you’re looking for as far as questions from me or
whatever else, but we’ve been in contact, of course, with the Planning Board and with the
Staff and also building inspector, fire code inspector, fire inspector or Fire Marshal, also, the
consultants to the Board, and I think we have complied with everything that they desired in
a recent letter that was sent to you people, I believe, and I have four copies of that, if
somebody didn’t get their copy of it, okay. That was dated January 12, 2006.
MR. VOLLARO-Which letter are you referring to?
MR. BROWN-This is a letter that was sent to, I believe it was sent by mail, it was dated
January 12, 2006. So maybe some of you haven’t received it.
MR. FORD-We have one January 11, at least I do.
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MRS. BARDEN-Right, the cover letter is.
MR. HUNSINGER-Is that from Peter Brown?
MR. BROWN-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, we have that.
MR. BROWN-And that was signed by myself, Jeff Schwartz and Bill Montgomery, the
project engineer. Okay, and I believe that handled most of the concerns of the Staff and C.T.
Male, and C.T. Male was also sent this. So I don’t know what questions you have regarding
this right now at this point but it’s pretty straight forward. It’s an industrial park, as I said
before, and it’s nothing but a, basically a great big warehouse with a lot of racks in it.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. The public hearing’s still open. If that’s the extent of your
presentation, and if there’s anybody here from the public that would like to speak to this
application, I’d like to have them come forward.
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
MR. VOLLARO-Anybody want to talk to this application? With that, I will close the public
hearing on this application.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. VOLLARO-I’m going to start with the Board itself and see if they’ve got any questions
and what we can do, this is a site plan criteria. I know that you all have received copies of
this site plan review criteria, and you probably want to use that this evening, and I’ll go
through it, and we’ll start off with design standards. Conformance with the Comprehensive
Land Use Plan, conformance with design corridor standards and building design layout and
signage. Has anybody got any questions on those at all? Site development design, site
conditions soils, geology hydrology, slopes, vehicle access, traffic patterns, pedestrian access
and parking field design and emergency access? All right. I have a question on parking field
design. If anybody else has anything, I’ll go last. I think the classification of this business
should be either a distribution center or light manufacturing. If you take a look at our Code,
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
179-4-040, has to do with defining parking spaces, and the parking in these two categories
would equal eight spaces plus one for each company automobile, plus one handicapped, and
we would allow to be able to increase that by 20%. So it’s roughly twelve spaces, as opposed
to 20.
MR. BROWN-I believe we have, if you look at the plan, we have 21. So there’s really no, we
meet your criteria.
MR. VOLLARO-No, you don’t.
MR. BROWN-What are your criteria?
MR. VOLLARO-The criteria is on 179-4-040. Do you have your copy of the Code?
MR. BROWN-No, I don’t have it in front of me, but did you figure up how many cars that
you would like to see, or how many parking spaces?
MR. VOLLARO-It’s not what I would like. It’s what the Code says.
MR. BROWN-Okay. What does the Code says?
MR. VOLLARO-Parking would be eight spaces.
MR. BROWN-Yes.
MR. VOLLARO-Plus one for each company vehicle.
MR. BROWN-Which there are none.
MR. VOLLARO-Which there are none.
MR. BROWN-Right.
MR. VOLLARO-Plus one handicap space.
MR. BROWN-So we’ve got that.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay, and then we’re allowed to go up to 20% over that. So it’s one eight so
we can give you ten spaces.
MR. BROWN-Yes, and we have 21 plus two handicap parking spaces.
MR. VOLLARO-No, that does not fit the Code. We’re allowed to give you 20% over the top
of the Code. I guess the big thing is the classification of your business. I looked at it and
classified it in my mind at least as a distribution center or a light manufacturing organization.
MR. BROWN-There’s no manufacturing there. It is probably.
MR. VOLLARO-Is it a distribution center?
MR. BROWN-Probably a distribution center would be proper.
MR. VOLLARO-So in the Code the distribution center and light manufacturing are exactly
the same for parking.
MR. BROWN-Okay, and I think that when I went to the Staff, okay, I asked them about
this particularly, and what we did, we tried to come to some kind of a reasonable agreement.
We can fit a lot more parking in that area if we need to. I don’t think it’s necessary.
MR. VOLLARO-I realize that.
MR. BROWN-And I think we asked for relief on that particular item.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. VOLLARO-Well, we can give you relief up to 20% of the Code. We can add, if you need
more, we can give you 20% more. That would be 1.8 or 2 spaces, in my mind. Does anybody
on the Board want to get into this discussion at all?
MR. METIVIER-No, I’m just curious as to where we’re going with it. I understand where
you’re going with the Code, but is it relevant for this particular action, I mean, in an
industrial park?
MR. VOLLARO-Well, I’ll get to the Code itself, Tony, and talk about it, and it talks to light
manufacturing, for one, and then it talks to a distribution center.
MR. HUNSINGER-How many spaces are there now?
MR. BROWN-Well, right now, I would say there’s at least 12, okay. We’re going to take and
put a gravel parking area beside it, okay, and it’s going to expand it to 21, plus two handicap,
and there’s only sixteen employees, and there’s no sales on the site at all. It’s a warehouse.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, that’s how you get one space per two employees, and that’s how you
come up with eight spaces. I’m just following the Code. I can give you 20% relief on this.
MR. BROWN-Yes, but one space per two employees. Sixteen employees maximum is what
this facility is going to, it doesn’t have sixteen now, okay. There’s eight employees now. If
they double that, which I doubt they’ll do, okay. If I’m seeing this right, one space per
employee. Let’s say they end up with 16 employees on site, okay. One space per two would
mean you’d need eight spaces.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s what the Code says, yes.
MR. BROWN-Okay. We have shown on here 21.
MR. METIVIER-You know what the problem is, you’re showing too many parking spaces.
You can’t have that per the Code.
MR. BROWN-Well, this is an agreement with came up with with the Staff. They said, if you
want to go back, we could certainly cut it right back down. It doesn’t matter. We’re willing
to cut back because it’s not necessary.
MR. VOLLARO-Susan, what was our position on this Staff wise? How did he come up with
the fact that Staff approved this?
MRS. BARDEN-Well, it wasn’t identified that they needed a variance for the amount of
parking that they were requesting.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, when I look at the Code, it looks like they’re over to me. I mean, I
don’t know.
MR. HUNSINGER-The reality of the situation is, what you see is what you get, and it’s a
question of how you label it on this site plan. Because you’re not going to eliminate the
existing gravel that’s already there. So whether you show 20 spaces on your site plan or 12,
you’re still going to have the same amount of spaces. It’s gravel. Am I right? Because you
need that area to turn around.
MR. BROWN-Well, we were going to propose the additional gravel parking area, okay,
because basically what we could fit in there comfortably, what we felt comfortably was we
could fit 12 on the existing pavement. Okay, and let’s say that meets the Code, okay, but we
know every employee drives there.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. BROWN-So that’s 16 cars that are going to be there every day, being realistic about it,
and there’s no bus service there. Carpooling in this area is not a big favorite of anybody’s. So
that would mean you’d have to add four more people to the parking lot. Then let’s say you
decide to go there for some reason to look over the project. I went there to meet you there or
whatever else, that’s two more employees, okay, or two more people parking. So we felt that
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
21 was reasonable, and it would not detract from the site. It would not detract from
anything, and we’re just trying to take and make it so that it wasn’t a mess.
MR. HUNSINGER-I guess the question is, are you expanding the area that’s already gravel,
or are you proposing to?
MR. BROWN-No, we’re expanding, the existing parking is all on the pavement.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. BROWN-Okay, and what we’re doing is trying to move the parking, it’s parking in front
of the building, okay, which is not really a major problem at this point. We’re trying to get
the employees away, okay, and we’re trying to get the parking away from the building a little
ways. If you want that gravel parking area eliminated and going back to just 16 spaces on
the pavement, or 12 spaces on the pavement, glad to do it, not a problem. Just stipulate that
in your resolution.
MR. VOLLARO-We’ll do.
MR. BROWN-We have no objection to it.
MR. VOLLARO-My colleague here has said that he thinks the Code is kind of ridiculous for
this day and age. I also don’t agree with the way the Code reads for this day and age.
Usually what happens is they’ll ask you to come in for a waiver. You go to the ZBA, they
waive this and give you a variance and we’re okay. You can’t do that tonight because there
is no variance. So, we’ll stick with the 12 spaces that are on the paved area.
MR. BROWN-Right. That’s fine. That’s certainly reasonable. As you know where the
pavement is, we can actually get a lot more out on the pavement if we divided it up. I have
an as built drawing. Would that help? I have an as built drawing of what we have right now.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. That’ll be one condition that we’re going to be putting on this
application. Getting back now to stormwater and sewage design. Anybody have any
questions with that?
MR. METIVIER-Well, certainly apparently we have an issue with the septic system as it
stands right now, based on the number of employees that could potentially be working there.
MR. BROWN-In the latest letter that we sent you, okay, I tried to get this together, I don’t
know if you guys got a chance to read it or not, but the existing septic tank is 1,000 gallons.
MR. METIVIER-Right.
MR. BROWN-Okay, and the field is, I don’t know how many feet, but anyway, it’s designed
for 1,000 gallons per day, okay. If you had 16 people in there and everybody generated, okay,
six five gallon pails of effluent, okay, whether they’re washing their hands or using the toilet
or whatever. Okay. That’s a lot of water. That would be less than half the capacity. It
would be 480 gallons. So the answer is, to the question, it’s no problem, but it’s a good
question.
MR. VOLLARO-It’s not the capacity of the tank itself. It’s the capacity of the leach field.
MR. BROWN-And that’s designed for it. That was designed and that was approved
previously.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, it was approved previously for the previous building. I don’t know
what the story is now.
MR. BROWN-The question is, will it meet the demands as it’s going to operate, and, yes, it
will, and it’s got at least 50% capacity more.
MR. METIVIER-So that would work if it has 50% capacity more, up to the potential of 16
employees.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. BROWN-It would work at 32 employees, and then some. Okay. Stop and think about
it. Line up six, five gallon buckets, okay. Say each employee generates that in one day.
There’s no showers in this building. There’s no bath tubs. That’s a lot of effluent.
MR. VOLLARO-I tend to agree with that. I don’t think there’s a problem with the septic on
the site, myself, personally.
MR. BROWN-I mean, that’s pretty crude to set it up that way, but.
MR. METIVIER-That’s what the system will hold, is what you’re saying?
MR. BROWN-It’ll hold double that. You take sixteen employees and they each generate six,
five gallon buckets or thirty gallons, hot water tanks full of effluent a day, okay, between
washing their hands and using the toilet. Okay, because the capacity, it would not use 50%
of the system.
MR. VOLLARO-What are you calling the system, the size of the 1,000 gallon tank? Is that
what you’re calling the system?
MR. BROWN-Septic systems, as you are probably aware, are designed around the size of the
tank which slows the volume.
MR. VOLLARO-I know how they work, but that’s not the limiting factor. The limiting
factor is the field.
MR. BROWN-The field is designed based on the soil conditions. Okay, and that was based,
according to the Town of Queensbury standards at the time, and still, the standards haven’t
changed. That’s according to the Code, and that was previously designed by an engineer and
it was previously approved and it’s been in use and there’s no, you know, no need for.
MR. VOLLARO-Was that the Rist-Frost plan that that appeared on some years ago?
MR. BROWN-It appeared on the Rist-Frost plan. It was actually upgraded to the Town of
Queensbury Code. You’ve got to remember, the Rist-Frost plan was 10 years old at the time
that this building was started, and nothing against the Rist-Frost plans. They were very,
very good.
MR. VOLLARO-You gave those to us in eight and a half by eleven sheets, which I wasn’t
able to put together so that it made sense, by the way. So I didn’t even look at them.
MR. BROWN-I don’t understand what you’re talking about.
MR. VOLLARO-You sent some drawings in that were from Rist-Frost, they were eight and a
half by eleven.
MR. BROWN-I’m sorry, well, it covered those particular individual details. They were just
sections, but I can take and furnish the whole plans to you if you need them.
MR. VOLLARO-That won’t be necessary now.
MR. BROWN-Okay. Thank you.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. Let me continue to go through. The lighting design. Does anybody
have a question on lighting design?
MR. FORD-What is the nature of those exterior lights, please?
MR. BROWN-The exterior lights are basically to light up the front of the building.
MR. FORD-I know the purpose of them.
MR. BROWN-Kind of like headlights on a car. So you can see where you’re going. It’s a
security lighting, yes, it is, but it’s not a bank security lighting. It’s just enough to light the
area so people can see where they’re going. We have a lot of vandalism in the area over there.
We have a lot of garbage dumping, and a lot of other things that go on. So we want it lit, you
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
know, so we can see people and movement. There’s nobody to see them move. So, you know,
it’s almost valueless.
MR. FORD-So the only exterior lighting will be above exit doors?
MR. BROWN-Above the exit doors, and that was at the request, we don’t have to have that.
It’s not a State Building Code requirement, but C.T. Male suggested it and we said, yes, okay,
it’s not a problem.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. I hate to keep throwing the Code at you, because that’s the way I
work, to be honest with you, okay. Now the requirements of 179-6-020, we need one foot
candle is required for illumination on industrial parking lots. What level of lighting is
supplied by your 180 watt wall packs on the existing Phase I and Phase II buildings?
MR. BROWN-Phase I and Phase II buildings? We have never tested it.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, the requirement is one foot candle.
MR. BROWN-I’m sure there’s at least one foot candle there. I can take a meter over there
and get back to you tomorrow. We’ll put that as a stipulation of it that we’ll make sure that
that meets the Code. I was unaware of this.
MR. VOLLARO-Do you folks look at our Code when you prepare these things?
MR. BROWN-Well, we don’t read them in great detail, but I mean, you do this
professionally, basically as a profession.
MR. VOLLARO-I hope this is not a profession for me.
MR. BROWN-Well, I’m sorry, but we look at it as a warehouse, and our thing is to make sure
that the product that moves through there as efficiently as possible.
MR. VOLLARO-I understand that.
MR. BROWN-I mean, this is a profit generated thing.
MR. VOLLARO-I understand all of that. I think you’ve got a good project. I just have to
make sure that it’s in conformance with our Codes. That’s all.
MR. BROWN-Add that as a stipulation to it. We’ll make sure that it happens.
MR. VOLLARO-We’ll put that on, yes.
MR. BROWN-We sell lights, if it has to be increased. It’s not a major detail.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. We refer to C.T. Male’s Number Five, with respect to safety lighting
of the two proposed exits. I think Mr. Ford has already talked about that. We recommend
the same 185 watt wall packs over these two exits as well.
MR. BROWN-It doesn’t matter. Just put that as a stipulation. Fine, and if the other ones
have to be increased, we’ll increase those.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, I think it’s in there for employee safety, really.
MR. BROWN-Fine. It’s not an issue. We’re not even concerned about it. We’re concerned
about pleasing you people and getting the project moving.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. Landscape design, planting schedule, buffering, screening,
commercial, industrial buffer setbacks. Any comments on that?
MR. METIVIER-I have no comments on that.
MR. VOLLARO-I’d like to get into asking a question here. There is a letter here dated
August 5, 2005 by Mr. Bruce Frank, who goes out and does inspections of sites, and it says,
“During a site plan inspection of your project on July 27, 2005, and August 4, 2005, the
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following deficiencies were discovered”, and there’s a whole laundry list of them. I guess my
question is simply this. What is the status of Bruce Frank’s report of August 5 and how does
your Phase IV address or correct those deficiencies?
MR. BROWN-I have to say that I’ve never seen that memo.
MR. VOLLARO-Staff, does this go to, these memos usually go to the applicant?
MRS. BARDEN-Did that memo come from me?
MR. VOLLARO-No, it came from Bruce Frank, the name is Jeffrey Schwartz, and it went to
Dear Mr. Schwartz. I think they sent it directly to Jeffrey Schwartz.
MRS. BARDEN-What’s the date on that, Mr. Vollaro?
MR. VOLLARO-It’s August 5, 2005.
MRS. BARDEN-Does anybody else on the Board have that? I do not, but if it was part of
Staff notes, the applicant would have received it. I shouldn’t say that, I knew that he had
this letter, but I don’t believe that I circulated this.
MR. BROWN-If I could see the letter, perhaps I could address it, if that would be fine?
MR. VOLLARO-Sure. It’s addressed to Mr. Schwartz.
MR. BROWN-I’ve never seen it. It’s unfortunate we don’t have copies of this, but do you
want me to address them?
MR. HUNSINGER-We got them with the December submission.
MR. VOLLARO-We have another Board member who has them here.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, they came with the December package.
MR. VOLLARO-Right. So there was a distribution.
MRS. BARDEN-It was just the previous month.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, it was the previous Staff notes.
MR. BROWN-The only thing that I was aware of from Bruce Frank, okay, was the fact that
he needed a copy of the as built plan by a certain date, and I got that to him, and then I also
got the new set of plans to him at the same time, I believe, the Staff delivered them to him.
I’m not sure if I gave them to him or not. I see Bruce quite frequently, and I’m not exactly
sure what transpired when, but I know his only concern was, the day that he approved it,
was, all I knew, the only thing I thought I was concerned with was the fact that we didn’t
install a drainage structure, which was in question because of the fact that there’s some New
York State laws that now change that whole concept of putting water underground and not
filtering it first.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, you have his.
MR. BROWN-I have his report right in front of me now, and I was totally unaware of all
this. I’m certainly aware of the fact that the tree clearing limits. I didn’t realize it was a
violation, because I thought you could log off your property over there, as was done with all
the rest of the stuff.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, I don’t know what I can say to you, except that I need some kind of a
resolution on that letter. Maybe in the Phase IV you can make all the corrections that he
talks about.
MR. BROWN-Yes. They’re all going to be basically handled. You’ve got to realize that the
fire road around the building at that time is just temporary until this Phase IV goes, and then
that has to come out and be re-established around the entire parcel, the entire building.
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MR. VOLLARO-I just talked to Bruce Frank about this and he’s going to come out and
probably during your Phase IV construction going to be taking a look at things like we talked
about here, lights, okay. He’s going to take his August 8 letter, and see what kind of
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corrections can be made to your site.
MR. BROWN-When’s he going to do this now?
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t know. I don’t know when he’s coming.
MR. BROWN-But it’ll be before we start the project. Is that correct?
MR. VOLLARO-Well, before you start the project, that letter shows you have violations on
your existing site.
MR. BROWN-Yes, I understand that.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay, before you start Phase IV, and we’re trying to look whether Phase IV
can work in any way to correct those deficiencies. That’s what we’re trying to find out.
MR. BROWN-Okay. We don’t have a problem with this. I haven’t looked it over very
carefully, obviously. We don’t have a major problem because we’re trying to, it is in phases,
and therefore some things were done temporarily. Laws have changed during the duration of
the construction of this project, okay, and we’re going to update it to the current situation.
Now we have to take and go through the New York State Department of Environmental
Conservation, okay, and fill out the form, and they are responsible for inspecting all of the
drainage on the site, okay, and we have to fill out everything to that form, and that is
addressed in the January 12 memo to you people, okay, where that will actually, we have to
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take and submit a permit to them before we can start construction. They have to come and
inspect it during construction. We have to submit an application to them when the
construction is completed. They come out and inspect it.
MR. VOLLARO-We know how this is done.
MR. BROWN-Okay. I didn’t know if you did. Some of this stuff is outdated now.
MR. VOLLARO-It might be outdated, but I just can’t put memos like that aside and say,
well, we’re not going to address those.
MR. BROWN-Understandable. What I’m saying is, we will take and address this along with
the entire site under current laws or the Codes, whether your codes or their codes, we’ll
address those under this final phase.
MR. VOLLARO-Normally when DEC permits are required, we usually see the permit
application, so that we know that you’ve applied for a DEC permit, and I don’t see one here.
MR. BROWN-No, we have not submitted that yet, because we didn’t know what was going
to happen, and the thing is you can’t send the permit in until you’re going to start
construction. The permit is issued in like nine days or something like that, the way we’re
doing it. Not the 60 day process. Okay. We’re doing it according to the latest standards, and
we are going to go for the routine easiest way to do it, okay, and then as soon as the
construction is completed, we’re going to give them notification that it’s completed. They
will come up and inspect it, and all their information does come back to the Town Planning
Board or the Town Building Inspector. That’s a part of their process.
MR. VOLLARO-I want to ask Staff a question here. Susan, I have a copy of a completion,
you know, when you go into a pre-application conference, and I have a blank one. Did you
sit, or did anybody sit with this gentleman in pre-application and talk about all of these type
of things that we’re talking about here?
MRS. BARDEN-Yes, it’s signed, is it not?
MR. VOLLARO-I’ve got Mr. Brown’s signature and your signature, but I have nothing in
comments. Just blank. All of this is blank.
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MRS. BARDEN-Well, I think it’s the new form, which, you know, things are checked off
rather than written at the bottom, where it says, you know, was a detailed project description
submitted? Is there a site plan? Is there an Environmental Assessment Form? Those kinds
of things. Is it an allowable use? So I think it’s the new form. We did meet, though, yes.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, and you made circles and said N/A. It was filled out.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, I just didn’t see it on mine. I only got one sheet.
MR. HUNSINGER-You didn’t get Page Seven, along with Page Eight?
MR. VOLLARO-No, I didn’t. I got Page Eight. I didn’t get Page Seven along with it.
MRS. BARDEN-You don’t have that first page? Sorry about that.
MR. VOLLARO-So the landscaping and buffering wasn’t checked off, and that’s the thing
that Mr. Frank was talking about. I don’t know, let me ask the Board. How do you feel with
respect to what Bruce Frank has written? Have you all seen that letter?
MR. SEGULJIC-Yes. It would seem to me that he should, looking at these plans, it doesn’t
seem as if they’ve incorporated those.
MR. VOLLARO-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-So I would think we need the applicant to incorporate those deficient design
features into the plan. One would think so, yes. That’s why I’ve asked this gentleman
whether or not Phase IV would go towards correcting some of those deficiencies, and I think
his problem is he doesn’t know what the deficiencies are in detail because he hasn’t seen this
memo yet.
MR. BROWN-This is exactly right. I have never been presented this form at all, and I’m not
faulting anybody, but I’m saying this is a basic lack of communication, when these people
know that I’m in charge of the project and I should be the first one informed, if not the
second, and it shouldn’t be presented to me at a meeting like this. It’s very embarrassing for
me to see this stuff and I would like to address it right now and get it over with.
MR. VOLLARO-We won’t be able to do that, unless your drawing, as one of the members
said, the drawing would have to reflect the changes.
MR. BROWN-I think we can add these right to the stipulations of what has to be handled
now, and if you disagree with me when I go down the list, I’d be glad to say this is.
MR. VOLLARO-Let me poll the Board and ask the Board what they think. What does the
Board think here? We obviously have a discrepancy report from Bruce, Bruce Frank, that’s
fairly detailed. The applicant hasn’t really had an opportunity to see those until tonight, and
I don’t know why, because it was addressed not to you.
MR. BROWN-August the 5, and Bruce knows that I was in charge, and, you know, the
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thing was this was obviously not even carbon copied to me at all. It was sent to one person.
It was not copied to anybody else.
MR. VOLLARO-Normally they send it to the applicant, and the applicant in this case is Mr.
Jeffrey Schwartz.
MR. BROWN-I deal with these people all the time, okay, and they know who takes and reads
these things and who doesn’t read these things. I would address this, all I was aware that he
wanted an existing as built plan, and that was furnished to him within his specification. I
was told of one thing on here that we did not take and put the stormwater thing in. I told
him that was because of the State, and we were going to take and comply with that on Phase
IV. He said as long as I see that in writing, I will take and waive that. It’s not a problem.
Okay. I was not told about these other things.
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MR. VOLLARO-Okay. Mr. Brown, let me just ask the Board how each member feels about
this at this particular point?
MR. GOETZ-If I were the applicant, and it’s my building, I would expect the Town of
Queensbury is sending information to me, and I would take that information and I would go
to you, if you’re my representative, and I would present it to you, and I’d say how are we
going to go about taking care of this? So, that’s the way it should be done. The Town of
Queensbury shouldn’t have to say, well, gee, this is Peter Brown, he’s representing him, but
this really belongs to Jeffrey Schwartz or whoever. I don’t think they can take all that into
consideration. I think it’s the responsibility of the applicant.
MR. VOLLARO-Mr. Ford?
MR. FORD-Lack of communication on the part of the applicant does not constitute an
emergency for us, the Planning Board. There are too many unanswered questions, too many
concerns.
MR. VOLLARO-Tony?
MR. METIVIER-Well, I’m just curious if Mr. Brown’s listed as the agent on this application
anywhere?
MR. BROWN-Yes, I am.
MR. METIVIER-You are?
MR. BROWN-I was, and I have worked for this family since 1967.
MR. METIVIER-I just honestly don’t recall seeing your name. So I do apologize, but I’m
just curious. Usually we notify agents.
MRS. BARDEN-But this letter went out before this application came in, Tony. This letter
would have gone out before the application was made.
MR. METIVIER-That’s why. So that’s why you weren’t notified, but typically the agent.
MR. BROWN-Yes, but I was on the other. All phases I’ve been on as the applicant, okay.
They’ve all been done under me, okay, basically.
MR. VOLLARO-The only place that I see where, to answer your question, Tony, the only
thing that I see, on the drawings it says, drawing by PJB, and I know that’s Peter J. Brown.
So other than that, I have to agree, I haven’t seen him as an agent for the applicant anyway.
MR. BROWN-Well, the plans also have William Montgomery’s and this was not addressed to
him, okay. He is my boss in this case, and they were not addressed to him. He would turn
this over to me immediately and we would discuss it. It’s never been copied to him
whatsoever, in any way, shape or form, that I know of. Now, it’s just sad when this man
deals with me and fails to take and send a copy of this letter. This is an embarrassment to
everybody.
MR. METIVIER-I guess in defense of the Town, Bruce Frank or whomever, I just don’t see.
MR. VOLLARO-I’ll take a copy of that.
MR. BROWN-You can have this copy. Please, would somebody give me a copy of this letter.
MR. VOLLARO-I need that for my records.
MR. BROWN-I’m sorry for taking up your time. As I said before, these will all be addressed
on this thing if you want to include that in your, that these questions are all answered, and
that the Codes are all followed, current Codes are all followed.
MR. VOLLARO-Mr. Hunsinger, what do you think we ought to do with this? Have you, do
you have an opinion on this one?
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MR. HUNSINGER-Well, I mean, if we’re sort of looking at this August 5 letter, I mean,
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some of the deficiencies I think are, obviously would be corrected with Phase IV. I mean,
approved tree cutting, clearing limits have been violated, approximately 30,000 square feet to
the east of what was approved. Well, obviously that was done in anticipation of Phase IV.
So, I mean, to me that’s a non issue, but we’re sitting here and we’re trying to understand
some of the stormwater comments that are in that letter, and I can’t relate them from the site
plan inspection report to this drawing, and maybe I’m not supposed to be able to, because
maybe they were only part of the approved Phase III expansion, and now, you know, the
building is covering, you know, the proposed building for Phase IV is covering that. That’s
what I don’t know. So, I mean, certainly I’m a little confused at how some of these
comments relate to the current site plan. really, personally, I don’t see anything that’s a deal
killer, though. I mean, obviously if there’s any existing deficiencies, those would have to be
corrected before a building permit would be issued, and we can make that a condition of any
approval tonight. So, so far, I don’t see anything that’s a deal killer for me, but certainly I
respect the other comments from my fellow Board members.
MR. SEGULJIC-I agree with Chris, but I would go one step further. I think we need to see
those deficiencies put on the plan so we can get a clean set of plans.
MR. BROWN-They are on the plans, okay.
MR. SEGULJIC-I guess what we have to do is get those plans, and next meeting we have it
should be real easy.
MR. BROWN-They’re on the plans, okay. What happens, this is a good example, okay, he
sits in there and says, there seems to be an excessive amount of silt in the gravel that’s used
for the fire road. Okay. On the plans, if you look at the plans, the gravel is coming out of
West Fort Ann out of a pit up there that’s been in existence, been approved by the State of
New York, which has a percolation rate of somewhere less than one minute. I can’t remember
exactly whether it was 50 or 55 seconds, okay. That does not indicate there’s an excessive
amount of clay or silt. Now I don’t even know where he’s talking about. If he discussed this
with me, we could have come out and said, hey, show me where you found this quote deal
failing project. That’s wrong the way it was written. It’s wrong the way it’s presented to me
tonight, okay. I will answer those questions if you want me to answer them, individually,
starting with one to whatever it is. I understand your plight.
MR. SEGULJIC-It’s just that when we approve plans, it’s what’s to be constructed, and
these features are not on the plans.
MR. BROWN-Okay. Number Three on the plan, if you take your plan out right now, (lost
words) gravel fire access roads and gravel parking areas are to be installed after the site has
been cleaned up and fine graded. A one and a half inch deep by twenty foot wide approved
(lost words) gravel will be spread and compacted. The center line grade will be according to
the plan. The grade will be a crowned off the road at a 10% slope to each side. That’s 20 feet
wide, okay, 10% slope each side. So the water runs off it.
MR. VOLLARO-One of the things that Mr. Frank does, when he goes on the site, is has those
drawings and does the deficiencies against the drawing. What’s on the plan he looks for, and
if he doesn’t see it, he writes it up.
MR. BROWN-Why didn’t he point this out when he was there?
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t know the answer to that.
MR. BROWN-Okay. Well, I’m asking you this, okay, it’s on the plan corrected, okay. The
existing roads are going to be altered. They’re going to be changed to the new plan, okay, and
they’re going to follow this particular specification. So when Mr. Frank comes out, that he
does his inspection, he goes over with me, and there’s no confusion on this thing. Those roads
will be put in there at the last step, so there is no silt or, I don’t even know where you come
up with clay particles, but anyway, okay, they’re designed for an H-20 road, and the (lost
words) gravel will have a percolation rate of less than one minute in its natural state at the
pit, or as compacted at the site. Okay. Now that’s pretty specific.
MR. VOLLARO-It’s specific on that drawing. Apparently he didn’t see what’s on that
drawing. That’s how he does his inspection report. I’m looking at the clock. We’re almost 50
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
minutes into this application, and I don’t want it to run too much longer. I’d like to get a
position from the Board. I know, Chris, you think we ought to go forward on this. Is that
how you feel on this? Are you willing to go forward with it? Because I think the rest of the
Board is not. I’m just trying to get a position here as to how we go.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, no, I was. I mean, there might be some additional questions that
need to be addressed, but I don’t see anything that’s a deal killer, at this point.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. Well, if we go forward with this, we’re essentially ignoring what,
really what Bruce had to say, unless what you said, Chris, makes some sense, that Phase IV is
going to cover up a lot of what these deficiencies are describing, but I can’t tell that.
MR. SEGULJIC-Yes, I think we need clarification.
MR. HUNSINGER-I’m not ignoring what Mr. Frank said in his letter. All I’m saying is that
it would have to be a condition of approval that these deficiencies have to be corrected, prior
to any building permit being issued.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, well, you know I talked to this Board before about my feeling on
conditions of approval. I would very much like to see a drawing that reflects what’s going to
be done, as opposed to conditioning things. Conditions are, the drawing speaks volumes to
me. It always has, and I’d like to see a drawing that reflects what’s really going to be there,
and I can’t tell that from the set of drawings that you gave me.
MR. BROWN-You cannot tell these things. These things become finite, okay. A good
example, one of his points in here okay. A drywell had been covered that actually wasn’t
covered, a silt fabric, okay, was placed below the grade to catch any silt so it would not plug
the drywell below, okay, or infiltrate into the drywell below and plug or lessen its capability.
That was there during construction for a purpose, okay, to catch anything because it wasn’t
stable, or it’s much more stable now than it was then, obviously, if the grass has begun to
grow. Now in the wintertime there’s no stability because the ground is frozen, okay, and his
concern is that the water won’t reach the catch basin. So we cut that out, you know, that’s
normal. We can’t cut those out until the State comes through and approves it, and then
they’ll approve it after they know the ground is stable and these things can’t all be put on the
plans. You have to use a certain amount of experience in these matters and that’s all this
letter is basically saying, you know.
MR. SEGULJIC-Excuse me. When do you plan on starting construction?
MR. BROWN-I don’t know, when we get approval. It’s not going to be until the frost is out
of the ground. We’re certainly not going to go into any detailed plans until we get approval,
and I’m talking about detailed building plans.
MR. SEGULJIC-So if we tabled this application until the first meeting in February.
MR. BROWN-But how are we going to put all this stuff on the plan? We followed the Codes
and rules and regulations. It says that in the drawings. We’re not going to spell out
everything in his thing that, yes, this didn’t look right. I don’t see where he went out and
took a soil sample and can sit there and verify anything in his memo. I’m not questioning his
ability or his eyesight. I’m just sitting there saying, you know, for us, we’ve already written it
out in the new thing. He can take the new plan when it’s all done, when the fire road’s in its
final location and say, okay, this doesn’t meet the requirements and we’ll have to take care of
it. It’s a stipulation before you get your building permit, or before you get your Certificate of
Occupancy.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, I’m inclined to table this application and have the applicant come
back with a set of drawings that reflects exactly what’s going to be done and how Phase IV,
and I think Mr. Hunsinger might have a point. Phase IV may be able to correct a lot of the
deficiencies that show up on that, and if it does, then we can come back with a drawing that
shows how Phase IV takes care of all of this. That was pretty much in line with what you
thought, Chris, wasn’t it?
MR. BROWN-Right on the plans, okay, there is a note on there, New York State notice of
intent and all that stuff will be there, okay, and all that stuff is addressed under New York
State current DEC laws. Everything is. The rest of the stuff has been handled.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. VOLLARO-Not to the satisfaction of this Board or to me, either.
MR. BROWN-Well, then give me some specific questions. Don’t sit there and ask me to re-
draw the plans. I don’t think that’s a fair statement.
MR. VOLLARO-The plans do not reflect, in my mind, what Mr. Frank had to say. They
don’t.
MR. BROWN-I didn’t even see that, but I can address those right now if you want me to.
MR. VOLLARO-That is not my fault, Mr. Brown. That’s not the fault of this Board.
MR. BROWN-You’re Chairman of the Board. Can’t you talk to Mr. Frank and ask him what
happened?
MR. VOLLARO-I certainly can.
MR. BROWN-I think that would be a good start. I don’t know why he doesn’t come and
talk to me about it.
MR. SEGULJIC-Mr. Brown, could I ask you a question?
MR. BROWN-Yes, please.
MR. SEGULJIC-The approved stormwater swale has not been constructed. The swale should
begin at the southeast corner of the new addition and extend around the east side and across
the new gravel driveway and end at the approved drainage structure which was not installed.
MR. BROWN-That’s correct.
MR. SEGULJIC-I don’t see the swale on the plans.
MR. BROWN-No, because there is a building sitting in those plans.
MR. SEGULJIC-Well, that has to be clarified for us.
MR. BROWN-Hold it. He’s saying that the original approved swale is not in there. What
happened was, we realized we were going to take and go to the new DEC standards, okay. So
we’re going to keep the water going around the entire building now and into the new swale.
Okay, and so that shows on the plans. Yes, Mr. Frank was right. I wasn’t there, because the
land was cleared and the land was done, but there was no harm. You had no complaints.
There was nothing from anybody else other than he observed that the swale was not there,
because at the time we were already planning this thing, and that’s why we didn’t put the
drywell structure in. That’s why the swale, where the swale is now, there’s a fire road there.
That fire road is coming out. The swale was coming around through Phase V, right down
that line, basically, where the 201 feet shows.
MR. SEGULJIC-Two hundred and one feet?
MR. BROWN-On the plan, if you look just to, on Phase IV, okay, on the right hand side of
Phase IV is a long, perpendicular line. It goes from north to south, and it says 201 feet. That
was originally intended to be the swale.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. BROWN-Okay, but then, after Phase III was under construction, it was decided to go
on to Phase IV, okay. So it wasn’t put in there correctly. The drainage structure wasn’t put
in there because of the new laws in the State and therefore that’s why this plan shows
correctly where the swale goes and where the storage area is going to be to filter the water
into the ground so you don’t have to have a drywell structure, and I am one for a drywell
structure. The State of New York isn’t.
MR. VOLLARO-All right . Have you got a comment on C.T. Male’s letter of January 11
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and the 15?
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. BROWN-I believe that was addressed.
MR. VOLLARO-I’m looking for a signoff letter by C.T. Male.
MRS. BARDEN-We don’t have a signoff letter from C.T. Male.
MR. VOLLARO-Either for the letter of January 11 or December 15?
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MRS. BARDEN-No.
MR. BROWN-We basically addressed all his concerns.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, we don’t have a signoff letter from C.T. Male engineering. I’m looking
at two specific letters, one dated January 11, which is his recent letter, and one dated
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December 15, which precedes that letter, and we don’t have any comment, in terms of
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signoff by C.T. Male on those two letters.
MR. BROWN-Well, we addressed most of those concerns.
MR. VOLLARO-You addressed them with C.T. Male?
MR. BROWN-Yes, they were given a copy of this.
MR. VOLLARO-No, no, no. Did you actually talk to Mr. Edwards or Mr. Houston?
MR. BROWN-I talked to Jim Houston.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. BROWN-Bill Montgomery, also, I believe, talked to him, and that’s why this letter was
sent out with the three signatures on it, okay. It was all agreed upon, and, you know, they
know that basically the drainage is controlled by the State of New York now, the site
drainage. They’re absolutely correct in their comments on that first letter, and I can’t recall
exactly what the second letter is, but there are some concerns in there that were all addressed.
I think they had the question about the water line.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, it says we are not clear whether this is an extension of the
modifications. Note were added to the plans which pertained to complying with DEC
stormwater quality volume and erosion control. We are not clear whether this is an extension
of the modifications. There’s a lot of questions in here.
MR. BROWN-There’s a lot of questions in there, and the basic problem comes down that
they were never given an as built plan. Okay.
MR. VOLLARO-Look, normally when C.T. Male reviews an application, in my view, it’s
probably 99 out of 100 times they respond eventually with a signoff, and we don’t have even
a glimmer of one here.
MR. BROWN-Well, they apparently didn’t have a chance to do it since January 12, or
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whenever this letter was received by them, but I faxed it to them.
MR. METIVIER-I think what we need to do at this point is, you stated that you’re not going
to do anything until the frost is gone.
MR. BROWN-That’s correct.
MR. METIVIER-So let’s get a laundry list together and clear up everything that we want,
need, and desire and move along, because we’re not getting anywhere. We’re running around
in circles.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes.
MR. METIVIER-So let’s take five minutes.
17
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t think five is enough.
MR. METIVIER-Well, it’s a start. It’s eight o’clock, it’s the first application, and we’re not
getting anywhere. We’re running around in circles here. So let’s take some time and figure
out what we need.
MR. VOLLARO-True. We’ve got 30 days to come up with a response on the site plan.
MR. METIVIER-That’s fine. If you want to do that.
MR. VOLLARO-We can do it in that time or before, and get you a definitive list of things
that have to be done.
MR. METIVIER-And get Staff and Bruce Frank and everybody.
MR. BROWN-Please do, and I’d like a copy of that memo that I was presented with tonight.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, I’ll get you that.
MR. BROWN-And I’d also like to be able to sit down with C.T. Male, at their convenience,
we’re paying for the bill anyway, and go over and make sure that we get all this stuff certified
by them, so you people are comfortable with it. We’re not going to put the application in
until we begin, get ready to send it to the State of New York, okay.
MR. VOLLARO-You keep talking about the State of New York. Actually, you’ve really got
to satisfy the Town of Queensbury, and this Board.
MR. BROWN-The State supersedes this Board.
MR. METIVIER-Not necessarily, because we always meet the State’s requirements, always,
and we have Town requirements that we require you to do. You have to comply with us, but
we will always meet or exceed the State’s requirements. So, you have to be careful in this
case. You need lighting. You need lighting, you need landscaping, you need, you know,
things that Bruce Frank wants from you. You need it all on your plan that you present to us,
regardless of what the State wants. You have to come back to us. We’re the definitive.
MR. BROWN-I’m talking about the environmental issues.
MR. METIVIER-That’s fine, but we’re going to meet and exceed those as well. So you keep
coming back and saying, the State, the State, the State. We want specific things from you
and the applicant.
MR. BROWN-We cannot get a building permit until we get their approval.
MR. METIVIER-You can’t get a building permit until you get our approval.
MR. BROWN-I know, but what we’re asking for is the planning approval to say that, okay,
the concept is fine, and we meet all the requirements of the Building Code.
MR. VOLLARO-This is just not conceptual. This is a site plan. It’s a site plan. It’s not just
a conceptual plan.
MR. BROWN-Okay. Please give me a list of exactly what you want, and it will be presented
to you whenever you schedule the next meeting.
MR. VOLLARO-And I think what you have to do is get a hold of C.T. Male themselves.
MR. BROWN-I will get a hold of, after I get your stuff and.
MR. VOLLARO-No, you’ve got a separate issue with C.T. Male. You’ve got to answer their
questions in their letter.
MR. BROWN-That’s not a problem. I want yours so, because they.
MR. VOLLARO-Sir, we’ll get you ours.
18
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. BROWN-Okay. Why should we go and pay double, or three times, for we or you people
to find out what your requirements are and then go to C.T. Male.
MR. VOLLARO-We know what our requirements are. We’re not waiting to find out what
our requirements are. I’m giving you a whole bunch of requirements tonight. I’ve got them
all written down.
MR. BROWN-Okay. Good. So that’s what I’m looking for. Okay, and then we’ll take those
to C.T. Male and then they can decide whether it’s worthy to sign off or not. That’s fine with
me, and also make sure include the other letter, August 5.
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MR. VOLLARO-I know which one it is. Can I get a motion for this, that we can table this
for a period of 30 days?
MRS. BARDEN-I’m sorry, why are you tabling for a period of up to 30 days?
MR. METIVIER-Because that’s how long we have.
MR. VOLLARO-We’ve got 30 days on a site plan, I believe. I think the Code says we have
30 days to reply on site plan, and 62 days to reply on subdivisions. I believe that’s correct.
MRS. BARDEN-I guess I thought you were just going to tell him what you wanted him to
come back with.
MR. METIVIER-We don’t know yet . We have to get together what we need, and there’s no
way we can do it tonight.
MRS. BARDEN-I’ve got you.
MR. VOLLARO-We’ve got to put a list together, and I don’t want to do it tonight.
MRS. BARDEN-I understand.
MR. HUNSINGER-If you don’t specify a date, then they have to re-warn the public hearing.
MRS. BARDEN-Yes, the public hearing’s still open.
MR. METIVIER-Well, actually, the public hearing has been closed.
MR. FORD-That’s been closed.
MR. HUNSINGER-That’s right. Okay.
MR. METIVIER-So we don’t really have to do anything. We can table this until whenever,
if we want. I mean, within the specified period of time, because the public hearing is closed.
MR. VOLLARO-No, the public hearing is still open.
MR. METIVIER-No, it’s not.
MR. HUNSINGER-You closed it, Bob.
MR. VOLLARO-I’m sorry, that’s correct.
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 67-2005 JEFFREY SCHWARTZ, Introduced by
Anthony Metivier who moved for its adoption, seconded by Thomas Ford:
For 30 days, so we can put together a list of items that are required of this applicant.
Duly adopted this 17 day of January, 2006, by the following vote:
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AYES: Mr. Goetz, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Ford, Mr. Vollaro
NOES: NONE
19
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
ABSENT: Mrs. Steffan
SUBDIVISION NO. 1-2005 PRELIMINARY & FINAL STAGE SEQR TYPE UNLISTED J.
MICHAEL BLACKBURN AGENT(S): VAN DUSEN & STEVES OWNER(S): SAME
ZONING RR-5 & LC-10 LOCATION EAST SIDE RIDGE RD. NORTH OF DUNHAMS BAY
GUN CLUB APPLICANT PROPOSES A 3 LOT SUBDIVISION RESULTING IN LOTS OF 5.17
AC., 5.18 AC., 22.10 ACRES. SUBDIVISION OF LAND REQUIRES REVIEW BY THE
PLANNING BOARD. CROSS REF. AV 80-2005 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING N/A
ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY YES LOT SIZE 32.45 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 253.-1-18
SECTION A-183
MATT STEVES & JIM HUTCHINS, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. STEVES-Good evening.
MR. VOLLARO-For the record, you are?
MR. STEVES-My name is Matt Steves, with Van Dusen and Steves, and with me is Tom
Hutchins of Hutchins Engineering, representing J. Michael Blackburn on this application.
This is a three lot residential subdivision located on the east side of Route 9L, just north of
the Dunham’s Bay Rod and Gun Club. It’s been in front of you a few times. Mr. Hutchins
has appeared in front of this Board last month, when I was not in the area, and there was a
few comments that were brought up, and I’ll let Tom discuss those, as far as the changes that
were made from the meeting that was back in December.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. HUTCHINS-Good evening, Board. Tom Hutchins, Hutchins Engineering. At the
meeting of December 27, as I recall, we left the meeting with three issues, the first of which
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was a current set of plans, and I hope you have a current set of plans. These were submitted
December 30, and they should be dated last revised December 29.
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MR. VOLLARO-They are, two are, S-1 and then S-2, and then D-1 is 12/21, and I believe
those are the correct dates.
MR. HUTCHINS-Yes, they are correct.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. HUTCHINS-The second issue was clarify, or the second item that the Board had asked
for was to clarify the maintenance provision proposed for the shared driveway access, and we
have included a notation on there with sharing percentages and some draft language for the
easement, and the third item was to indicate the precise area of clearing for each lot, and
that’s on there.
MR. VOLLARO-I found the drawings to be exactly what we asked for, those three things. I
don’t have any questions at all on this. There’s only one question that I have, and it’s not
really for you. C.T. Male, now I think maybe we’ve gotten those today. I think C.T. Male
signed off. The revision dates are incorrect on his letter. It should be December 29 for S-1
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and December 29 for S-2, and December 21 for D-1, and I think we might have gotten
thst
something like that from C.T. Male. I saw an e-mail today to that effect.
MRS. BARDEN-Yes. We got a letter dated January 13 from C.T. Male, on Subdivision 1-
th
2005. “We have received and reviewed a revised subdivision plan for the referenced project,
which addressed Planning Board comments from December. Based on our review of the
information provided, we have no further comments.” This is from Jim Edwards.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. That satisfies me. Now the public hearing was closed on this.
MRS. BARDEN-I’m not sure that it was. No, I don’t believe it was.
MR. VOLLARO-I saw the public hearing closed. I might be wrong, because I’m looking at
11/22’s.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MRS. BARDEN-On the agenda it says public hearing tabled to January 17.
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MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MRS. BARDEN-So it must still be open.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. The public hearing was re-opened. I see it on Page 29 of the minutes
of 11/22.
MR. HUTCHINS-Yes, but it was on 12/27, and I don’t recall if it was closed or not.
MRS. BARDEN-Well, I mean, it was advertised that the public hearing is still open.
MR. METIVIER-The public hearing was closed.
JOHN SALVADOR
MR. SALVADOR-Point of order, Mr. Chairman. I suggest, under the circumstances, that
you re-open the public hearing. The project has taken on, if you look at the approval
resolution, an entirely different light. I suggest you open the public hearing. I have
comments.
MR. VOLLARO-The public hearing was closed. I don’t think so. I think the public hearing
is closed. It will remain closed. I don’t see anything on these drawings that.
MR. METIVIER-This is not a change. It’s only clarified from what we had last month.
MR. VOLLARO-Right. I don’t see a substantial change in drawings here, except for some
notations.
MR. SALVADOR-Have you read your approval resolution?
MR. VOLLARO-Mr. Salvador, I don’t know exactly what the problem is.
MR. SALVADOR-If I can be heard, I’ll be glad to explain.
MR. VOLLARO-How does the Board feel about that? If the public hearing is closed, there’s
a participant that wants to discuss something in the application. Do you want to open this
public hearing, to hear this new information?
MR. HUNSINGER-You always have the ability to give the floor.
MR. METIVIER-Yes, let him do it.
MR. FORD-I would like to hear from him.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, if you’ll step back for just a minute, we’ll let Mr. Salvador come up. It
looks like the will of the Board is to have the hearing. We’re going to give you five minutes,
John.
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
JOHN SALVADOR
MR. SALVADOR-Thank you. At the last meeting, I brought up the issue of the
maintenance agreement for the road.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s correct, and it was talked about and the requirement was that they
furnish a maintenance agreement, and you received advice from your Counsel that this could
be incorporated in the deed and that that would be sufficient. I don’t think it, I agree with
Counsel, it can be incorporated in the deed. However, it is not sufficient. I refer, and I read
from the General Business Law of the State of New York, and the reason I do this is because
as these people enter into this subdivision with a shared interest in this road, they are in a
category, in the General Business Law, referring to a Real Estate Syndication, and I’ll read a
short paragraph here. It shall be illegal and prohibitive for any person, partnership,
21
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
corporation, company, trust or association or any agent or employee thereof to make or take
part in a public offering or sale, in or from the State of New York of securities constituting a
participation interest or investment in real estate, and that is exactly what this is. These
people will be engaging in a Real Estate Syndication selling a participation interest. These
parcel owners, these lot owners, are going to be required to maintain this road, if not build it,
if it’s not built to standards, to standards required.
MR. VOLLARO-Mr. Salvador, let me ask you a question. Have you read the note on that
drawing that pertains to this subject?
MR. SALVADOR-I have, but I’m saying it’s not sufficient. Okay. The same General
Business Law has authorized the Attorney General to promulgate regulations, and these
regulations have been promulgated under 13 NYCRR Part 22, and it talks about the need for
an Offering Statement is required by Section 352 E, that’s the Section I just read, of the
General Business Law. Now, these are the regulations for a Homeowners Association and the
preparation of an Offering Plan. It is well founded that what these people are doing should
not require a full blown Offering Plan called an Association document. However, there is a
requirement in these regulations for the application of No Action Letter, and it is a statement
that you get the Attorney General’s approval for relief from preparation of an Offering Plan.
However, you must meet certain criteria. Now, as it pertains to roads, this particular Section
speaks specifically to roads. An HOA may qualify for a No Action Letter if the total annual
charge assessed for membership can be demonstrated by documentation satisfactory to the
Department of Law to be minimal. That’s the first criteria. Whatever these people have to
pay for maintenance of the road, it must be minimal, whatever that is, and that’s for them to
determine. However, if the HOA property includes private roads, the Department of Law
will not issue a No Action Letter, regardless of the annual charge assessed for membership,
unless the number of homes or lots which use such private roads is four or fewer. They fall
into that category. The fact remains, they must make application. Now, in your approval
resolution, I think you had had, in a left-handed manner, addressed my concerns. Number
Six says, all necessary outside agency approvals have been received by the applicant with a
copy sent to and received by the Planning Board Staff within 180 days. You know why you
put 180 days in there? Because that’s what it takes to do this.
MR. VOLLARO-Mr. Salvador, your five minutes are up, and I would ask you to yield your
seat.
MR. SALVADOR-Okay. I will conclude. I would suggest that Number Six be amended to
state including but not limited to the New York State Department of Law, and my concern
would be addressed.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, I don’t know whether I can do that or not, because I look at the note
on the drawing and I’ve read it, and they say the shared driveway shall be maintained by all
users over length shared. Each must be cost of said maintenance, be it plowing or repairing as
follows, and they give you a percentage for Lot One, Two, and Three. The lot owners shall
not obstruct, impede, or interfere with other lot owners’ reasonable use of such easement area
for the purpose of an ingress and egress to and from respective lots. Each owner shall have
the right to enforce, by law or in equity, all restrictions, conditions, covenants and charges
now imposed, in the event legal action to compel enforcement is made by any owner. So I
think that’s enough.
MR. SALVADOR-Mr. Vollaro, that subdivision plat gets filed at the County, okay. As soon
as it gets filed at the County, and they cut deeds, these parcels of land are going to be sold.
This 180 days is going to go, and you’ll never know that they have met all the other agency
requirements. You don’t deny that the New York State Department of Law has jurisdiction
in this matter, and should give their letter of No Action, but that doesn’t preclude them
moving ahead with the sale of the lots. In any case.
MR. VOLLARO-Actually, what we did here, John, has you know, we acted on advice of our
Counsel when this was written.
MR. SALVADOR-I understand.
MR. VOLLARO-And if our Counsel gave us that kind of direction, I’d just as soon stick with
that, unless our Counsel’s been wrong. I don’t know.
22
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, our Counsel was referring to Section 179-19-10, Item Five, which
talks about shared driveways specifically in our Zoning Code, and it says, and I’ll just read it
because it’s very brief. “Driveways may be required to be located so as to provide shared
driveways and/or cross-access driveways with an abutting property or properties.” Item A,
“Shared driveways and/or cross access driveways shall be of sufficient width (minimum 20
feet, 6.0 meters) to accommodate two-way travel for automobiles and service loading vehicles.
Wider driveways may be required to serve traffic to major generators and/or large vehicles.”
And then, B, “Shared driveways, cross-access driveways, interconnected parking, and private
roads constructed to provide access to properties internal to a subdivision shall be recorded as
an easement and shall constitute a covenant running with the land. Operating and
maintenance agreements for these facilities shall be recorded with the deed.” And that’s what
we had asked the applicant to provide.
MR. SALVADOR-Yes. The maintenance agreement is the key. There’s nothing wrong with
that text. Absolutely nothing wrong with that text, and there’s nothing wrong with the
advice your Counsel gave you. It’s just not sufficient.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right, it wasn’t complete.
MR. SALVADOR-They have to get a letter, a no action letter, from the AG’s office. It’s
required, and that protects the property owner. That protects them. That’s all. Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you.
MRS. BARDEN-Mr. Chairman, there is a public comment. Would you like me to read it?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes.
MRS. BARDEN-This was faxed to the office today, January 17, from Chris Navitsky, Lake
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George Water Keeper. “Dear Mr. Vollaro: I have reviewed the application and re-submitted
information for the above referenced subdivision application. I am unable to attend the
meeting this evening due to a conflict with another Town and would like to offer the following
comments for the record. 1. Despite the information submitted and recommendation of
approval from Mr. Houston, the collection and conveyance of stormwater for the proposed
driveways remains unclear. A driveway detail was provided with a swale to collect runoff
shown for only half of the driveway. How would the other half of the driveway be collected
and where would it be routed? 2. It is unclear if the driveways would be installed for the
marketing of Lots 1 and 3. If the driveways are to be installed to market the lots, then
stormwater management should be shown for the sections to be installed into the lots. 3. A
note should be added to the plans stating Lots 1 and 3 will require a major stormwater plan to
be designed for each lot. I look forward to working with the Town of Queensbury Planning
Board in defending the natural resources of Lake George and its basin. Thank you for your
consideration of these comments. Sincerely, Christopher Navitsky, PE Lake George
Waterkeeper”
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. I think since we got a signoff from our consulting engineer, C.T.
Male, it should be satisfactory. It is to me. I didn’t see anything in their letter that referred
to that. I don’t know how the rest of the Board feels about that, but you got a signoff letter
from C.T. Male, I think that should be sufficient.
MR. FORD-I agree.
MR. METIVIER-I think that we promised this applicant the last time that if they brought
the three things that we required, that we would move ahead with this, and I think it’s time
we do that.
MR. VOLLARO-I do, too. So with that, I think we ought to enter into a SEQRA. We have
a Long Form SEQRA to do.
MRS. BARDEN-Do you want to close the public hearing?
MR. METIVIER-Yes, close it.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, at this time I will, again, close the public hearing.
23
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
RESOLUTION NO. 1-2005, Introduced by Anthony Metivier who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Chris Hunsinger:
WHEREAS, there is presently before the Planning Board an application for:
J. MICHAEL BLACKBURN, and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning
Board action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No Federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is Unlisted in the Department of
Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental
Quality Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental
concern and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a
significant environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the
Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this
Board finds that the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby
authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-
significance or a negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 17 day of January, 2006, by the following vote:
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AYES: Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Goetz, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Ford, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Vollaro
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Steffan
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. I guess we can get a motion on the floor for approval of this.
MR. METIVIER-Do we have to do anything with that one resolution?
MR. HUNSINGER-Not for Preliminary.
MR. VOLLARO-No, we have to go to Preliminary first.
MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 1-2005 J. MICHAEL
BLACKBURN, Introduced by Anthony Metivier who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Chris Hunsinger:
WHEREAS, an application has been make to this board for the following:
Applicant(s): J. Michael Blackburn Subdivision SUB 1-2005 [P & F]
Owner(s): Same SEQR Type Unlisted
Agent(s): Van Dusen & Steves Lot size 32.45 acres
Location East side Ridge Rd. Zoning RR-5 & LC-10
north of Dunhams Bay Gun Club
Tax Id No. 253.-1-18 Section A-183
Cross Ref. AV 80-2005 Warren County Planning N/A
Public Hearing 11/22/05, 12/27/05, 1/17/06 Adirondack Park Agency Yes
24
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
Project Description: Applicant proposes a 3 lot subdivision resulting in lots of 5.17 ac., 5.18 ac., 22.10 acres.
Subdivision of land requires review by the Planning Board.
WHEREAS, the application was received; and
WHEREAS, the above is supported with all documentation, public comment, and
application materials in file of record; and
WHEREAS, pursuant to Chapter A183, Subdivision of Land, A183-10C, D of the Code of the
Town of Queensbury a public hearing was advertised and was held on 11/22/05, 12/27/05,
1/17/06; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has determined that the proposal complies with the
Subdivision application requirements of the Code of the Town Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has considered the environmental factors found in the Code
of the Town of Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been
considered and the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration; and/or if
application is a modification, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review
Act have been considered; and the proposed modification(s) do not result in any new or
significantly different environmental impacts, and, therefore, no further SEQRA review is
necessary; and
Preliminary [ A183-10 F(2) ( 3) ( 4) ]]
WHEREAS, the modifications to the preliminary plat are or are not acceptable; and [A -
183-10 F (2) ]
WHEREAS, the character and extent of any required improvement for which waivers may
have been requested and which, in its opinion, may be waived without jeopardy to the public
health, safety, morals and general welfare; and [ A183-10 F (2) ]
WHEREAS, approval of this preliminary plat shall not constitute approval of the
subdivision plat but rather, it shall be deemed an expression of approval of the design
submitted on the preliminary plat and as a guide to the preparation of the subdivision plat. [
A183-10 F (3) ]
WHEREAS, the developer shall sign and date a copy of the Planning Board's findings sheet,
and such approval shall be deemed to have occurred upon the return of such signed findings
sheet to the Planning Board. [ A183-10 F (4) ]
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that
We find the following: The application for Preliminary Stage is hereby Approved as per the
resolution prepared by Staff.
Duly adopted this 17th day of January, 2006, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Goetz, Mr. Ford, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Vollaro
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Steffan
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. On the Final I think all we need to note is that we do have a letter
from C.T. Male that approves S-1, S-2, and D-1 drawings, for the right dates. I don’t see
anything else to put in on Final on this.
MR. METIVIER-Do we have C.T. Male signoff?
MR. VOLLARO-We have C.T. Male signoff. Yes, she just read it. They’ve already given us
the signoff. Now they’ve signed off on S-1, the new drawing, December 29, S-2, December 29,
and D-1, December 21. They’ve given a signoff.
25
res.
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, their signoff had typos on drawing dates.
MR. STEVES-Correct.
MR. HUNSINGER-So they clarified that with the signoff that they sent today, and it’s
already incorporated into the resolution.
MR. METIVIER-Okay.
MOTION TO APPROVE FINAL STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 1-2005 J. MICHAEL
BLACKBURN, Introduced by Anthony Metivier who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Thomas Ford:
WHEREAS, an application has been make to this board for the following:
Applicant(s): J. Michael Blackburn Subdivision SUB 1-2005 [P & F]
Owner(s): Same SEQR Type Unlisted
Agent(s): Van Dusen & Steves Lot size 32.45 acres
Location East side Ridge Rd. Zoning RR-5 & LC-10
north of Dunhams Bay Gun Club
Tax Id No. 253.-1-18 Section A-183
Cross Ref. AV 80-2005 Warren County Planning N/A
Public Hearing 11/22/05, 12/27/05, 1/17/06 Adirondack Park Agency Yes
Project Description: Applicant proposes a 3 lot subdivision resulting in lots of 5.17 ac., 5.18 ac., 22.10 ac
Subdivision of land requires review by the Planning Board.
WHEREAS, the application was received; and
WHEREAS, the above is supported with all documentation, public comment, and
application materials in file of record; and
WHEREAS, pursuant to Chapter A183, Subdivision of Land, A183-10C, D of the Code of the
Town of Queensbury a public hearing was advertised and was held on 11/22/05, 12/27/05,
1/17/06; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has determined that the proposal complies with the
Subdivision application requirements of the Code of the Town Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has considered the environmental factors found in the Code
of the Town of Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been
considered and the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration; and/or if
application is a modification, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review
Act have been considered; and the proposed modification(s) do not result in any new or
significantly different environmental impacts, and, therefore, no further SEQRA review is
necessary; and
Final [ A183-13 E (2) (3) (4) ]
WHEREAS, upon granting conditional approval of the final plat, the Planning Board shall
empower a duly designated officer to sign the plat upon compliance with such conditions and
requirements as may be stated in its resolution of conditional approval. Within five days of
such resolution, the plat shall be certified by the Chairman of the Planning Board as
conditionally approved and a copy filed in the Planning Office and a certified copy mailed to
the subdivider. The copy mailed to the subdivider shall include two findings sheets, one of
which shall be signed by the applicant and returned to the Planning Board. Such
requirements which, when completed, will authorize the signing of the conditionally approved
final plat. Upon completion of such requirements to the satisfaction of the duly designated
office of the Planning Board, the plat shall be deemed to have received final approval, and
such officer shall sign the plat accordingly. Conditional approval of a final plat shall expire
180 days after the date of the resolution granting such approval unless the requirements have
been certified as completed within that time. The Planning Board may, however, extend the
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
time within which a conditionally approved plat may be submitted for signature if, in its
opinion, such extension is warranted in the circumstances, for one or two additional periods of
90 days each. [Amended 6-3-1991] [ A-183-13 E (2) ]
WHEREAS, the final plat shows exact location and depth of sewer and water service. It has
also set forth the exact layout and dimensions of proposed streets with the street names and
house numbers. [ A183-13 E (3) ]
WHEREAS, final approval of the subdivision plat plan shall be limited to that phase of the
development currently pending before the Planning Board. [ A183-13 E (4) ]
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that
We find the following: The application for Final Stage is hereby Approved as per the
resolution prepared by Staff and is subject to the following conditions which shall be listed on
the final plat submitted for Planning Board Chairman’s signature and filing:
1. A copy of the required NOI to be provided prior to issuance of a Building Permit.
2. Recreation fees in the amount of $ 500.00 per lot are applicable to this subdivision
modification.
3. C.T. Male Associates engineering sign-off required prior to signature of Planning
Board Chairman signature on mylar.
4. Waiver request(s) are granted / denied [Sketch plan, Stormwater, Grading and
Landscaping Plan].
5. No-Cut Buffer areas shall be field located by surveyor and flagged in a color that is
different from boundary markers.
6. All necessary outside agency approvals have been received by the applicant
with a copy sent to and received by Planning Department Staff within 180 days.
7. The plat must be filed with the County Clerk within 60 days of receipt by Planning
Department Staff of outside agency approvals noted.
8. Final, approved plans in compliance with this subdivision must be submitted to the
Community Development Dept. before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building & Codes personnel. Subsequent issuance of further
permits; including building permits are dependent on receipt
9. All site related improvements, such as but not limited to landscaping and lighting,
shown on plans shall be complete within one year of obtaining a building permit, and
no later than 6 months after receiving a building and codes certificate of occupancy.
Duly adopted this 17th day of January, 2006, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Ford, Mr. Goetz, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Vollaro
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Steffan
MR. STEVES-Thank you.
SITE PLAN NO. 70-2005 SEQR TYPE II ELLEN WINCH AGENT(S): BRIAN ROSS
OWNER(S): SAME ZONING SR-1A LOCATION COUNTY LINE ROAD APPLICANT
PROPOSES CONSTRUCTION OF A 1960 +/- SQ. FT. SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING AS WELL
AS THE PLACEMENT OF FILL FOR A 2600 SQ. FT. DRIVEWAY. APPLICANT PROPOSES
PLACEMENT OF 9,000 SQ. FT. OF FILL WITHIN 50 FEET OF ACOE WETLANDS. CROSS
REF. AD SUB 4-2002 [WM. TAFT] WARREN COUNTY PLANNING 1/11/06 LOT SIZE
4.26 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 290.-1-9.2 SECTION 179-6-060
BRIAN ROSS, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
27
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. VOLLARO-It’s a SEQR Type II. So there’s no SEQRA on this. Would you identify
yourself for the record, please.
MR. ROSS-My name’s Brian Ross. I believe I am the agent, yes.
MR. VOLLARO-The agent for the applicant.
MR. ROSS-I guess that’s how you read that. Yes, I’m the agent, Brian Ross.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. Would you tell us a little bit about your project and what you plan
to do?
MR. ROSS-Yes. Okay. We’ve got a site plan map available for you. Basically what we’re
looking for is approval to place a driveway, utility lines and fill within 50 feet of wetlands,
and the driveway would be on the wetlands.
MR. VOLLARO-I see you have a general permit from Army Corps Permit No. 12 & 14?
MR. ROSS-Yes. We’ve applied with the Army Corps of Engineers and received a permit,
after a couple of site visits from their office.
MR. VOLLARO-I saw that. Tom Seguljic, you had a comment on site visits, when we went
out Saturday, about could the drive be brought in on the old farm pathway, where the
wetlands would not be impacted by the road. Did you want to discuss that at all?
MR. SEGULJIC-Yes, I guess if you could respond to that.
MR. ROSS-Okay. Yes. That’s a common question. That old farm pathway is, would have
to be widened to make a suitable driveway, to allow, you know, emergency vehicles,
construction equipment, etc., to get in. It would have to be moved south, maybe six feet, to
allow enough room for clearing because it’s directly adjacent to a stone wall. If you want to
plow it, you need some room to put the snow. To do that, we would be required to remove
several, by a dozen or more, old growth hard woods, and you would still be impacting the
wetlands because the wetlands are adjacent to that. It is the wettest part of the property
down in that front corner. The rest of the wetlands are, I don’t know the technical term for
it, but it’s more of a meadow than a wetland. It’s walkable. There’s no frogs living there, and
there’s a special grass growing there that I guess grows only in wet environments.
MR. FORD-Is it a designated wetland?
MR. ROSS-It is an Army Corps of Engineers designated wetland.
MR. HUNSINGER-A lot of that area meets the Army Corps definition of a wetland, but, you
know, eight months out of the year you can walk across without your feet being wet, and then
the rest of the time you might get a little wet.
MR. ROSS-Right.
MR. HUNSINGER-It’s like spongy more than wet.
MR. ROSS-Yes. I mean, if you were to go up there at the last rain we had, you wouldn’t see
standing water, except in that front corner where the old farm pathway is.
MR. VOLLARO-Apparently, according to the Army Corps letter, you had a visit by the
Army Corps?
MR. ROSS-Twice. Actually the person who approved it is over in Iraq, and we were talking
to someone else. They came up. They looked at it, and the other guy came back and he came
up and looked at it also approved it. The only reason we’re interested in putting the driveway
where we designate it is it gets it out of the trees, and during the winter it helps keep the
driveway clear. This house is for my mother who’s 62 years old. So, you know, icy conditions
are going to be hard for her to handle. It’s also, if you’re familiar with the area, that pathway
comes right out at the bottom of the hill, on a road where people tend to go at the speed limit
or more.
28
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. VOLLARO-The sight distance from that is not good, I noticed that.
MR. ROSS-The sight distance is horrible. I mean, you might see 250 feet, but it’s coming
downhill and they’re moving, you know, traffic on that road is pretty fast.
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t have any questions at all. How about the rest of the Board, any
questions on this from Board members at all? I think it’s pretty straightforward to me.
MR. ROSS-That was across from the wetland. The other thing is fill in the front, within 50
feet.
MR. SEGULJIC-It looks like where your proposed driveway is, someone started to construct
a driveway there already.
MR. ROSS-That was done by the previous land owner.
MR. METIVIER-That’s been there for a while. That’s been there for a long time. As a
matter of fact, I’m just looking at probably the cross reference, William Taft. We had him a
couple of years ago, going back to, what, 2002.
MR. VOLLARO-To that site.
MR. METIVIER-Yes. So that has been there for quite some time.
MR. ROSS-Yes, when my mother purchased that property, she had no knowledge, no prior
knowledge of what William Taft was doing or anything like that. I would actually like not to
be thought of in those lights.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. There are some test pits, I noticed, on the drawing itself.
MR. ROSS-Yes.
MR. VOLLARO-And there’s test pit information, and those test pits were done by Charles
Maine. This is a single lot, so we don’t need any DOH confirmation on a single lot. DOH
needs to confirm anything five or over. So we’re okay. So I don’t have anything on this. I
wanted to discuss briefly with Staff a couple of areas in their prepared resolution. “Whereas
the use is in conformance with Chapter 136 of sewage and sewage disposal”. We haven’t
really checked on anything on that, but I suspect on a single lot like this, this is going to be
done by the building inspector, to approve the installation of the septic system before a CO is
issued?
MRS. BARDEN-That’s right.
MR. VOLLARO-So we would not have used Chapter 136, which is the on-site wastewater
regulations for the Town of Queensbury. We would not have referenced those. So I think
that ought to be removed as an area from this resolution.
MRS. BARDEN-I’m sorry, where is it in the prepared resolution? I’m sorry.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes. It says, “Whereas the use is in conformance with Chapter 136 of
sewage and sewage disposal, and Chapter 174, stormwater management, and other applicable
local laws.” For a single lot like this, I think the fact that.
MRS. BARDEN-Well, it still needs to be in conformance with Chapter 136.
MR. METIVIER-Right. Regardless of whether or not we act on it, it still has to be in
conformance, right?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, it does, but we haven’t taken a look at that septic system, in any kind
of depth, other than, for example, we don’t know how deep it is. We don’t know enough
about it to actually say we’ve gone through all of the, it looks like it meets the separation
distances reasonably well, particularly from the well. It’s over 100 feet from the well.
MR. ROSS-Yes, we meet all the setback requirements.
29
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, and he shows mottling here in some areas at 17 inches, at Test Pit
Number Three, which is right on the edge of the wetland itself. So, TP Four, which is
probably the most, he showed mottling there at 19 inches.
MR. ROSS-Actually, do we have TP Five, that’s five eight on the bottom there.
MR. VOLLARO-It’s five eight, but it’s probably TP.
MR. ROSS-That’s five.
MR. VOLLARO-And there the mottling is 29 inches.
MR. ROSS-That’s 29 inches.
MR. VOLLARO-And he’s got the perc numbers on it of five minutes.
MR. ROSS-And I believe we also have TP 1, which is mottling at 25 inches, and that’s kind
of right in line with the topo lines, between the two.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s not something that we went into in any depth.
MR. METIVIER-No, but I’m saying that they have to meet all the requirements of the site
plan. My feeling is we’re leaving ourselves widen open if we remove that.
MR. VOLLARO-All right. We can leave it in, if it’s the will of the Board. I just noticed that
we weren’t paying much attention to 136 on this.
MR. METIVIER-Well, we typically don’t, on single subdivisions, rely on septic.
MR. VOLLARO-For singles we don’t. That was my view on taking it out because it’s just a
single review. You don’t get into Chapter 136.
MR. METIVIER-Right. If we remove it, does that leave us vulnerable, as a Town, to not
have to require them.
MR. VOLLARO-We can leave it in. I’m not stuck one way or the other on that. We can
leave it. I just had a note for myself that perhaps it should be removed.
MR. SEGULJIC-Susan, if I could ask you a question. Why is this not a Freshwater Permit?
MRS. BARDEN-It’s not a DEC wetland. It’s an Army Corps.
MR. ROSS-Yes, this is not DEC wetlands.
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t know if anybody here that wants to talk to this application for a
public hearing. Is there anyone here wanting to speak to the application for Ellen Winch?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. VOLLARO-The public hearing is closed and there’s no SEQRA involved. It’s a Type II.
So I think we can get a motion for approval.
MR. METIVIER-I’ll make a motion to approve.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 70-2005 ELLEN WINCH, Introduced by Anthony
Metivier who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Goetz:
WHEREAS, an application has been made to this Board for the following:
30
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
Applicant proposes construction of a 1960 +/- sq. ft. single family dwelling as well as the
placement of fill for a 2600 sq. ft. driveway. Applicant proposes placement of 9,000 sq. ft. of
fill within 50 feet of ACOE wetlands.
WHEREAS, the application was received on 12/15/2005; and
WHEREAS, the application is supported with all documentation, public comment, and
application materials in file of record; and
WHEREAS, pursuant to Art. 9 of the Zoning Ordinance of the Code of the Town of
Queensbury a public hearing was advertised and was held on 1/17/2006; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has determined that the proposal complies with the Site
Plan application requirements of the Code of the Town Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has considered the environmental factors found in the Code
of the Town of Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, this approval does not relieve the applicant from obtaining all necessary permits
whether Federal, State or Local, and
WHEREAS, the use complies with all other requirements of this chapter, including the site
plan review standards as set forth in Subsection F of this section, the dimensional, bulk, and
density regulations of the zoning district in which it is proposed to be located (Table 4),EN
the applicable requirements of Article 4, Schedule of Regulations, the applicable requirements
of Article 5, Supplementary Regulations, the applicable standards and requirements of
Article 6, Environmental and Performance Standards, the standards/guidelines in Article 7,
Design Guidelines, and the requirements of Article 8, Landscaping and Buffering Standards.
WHEREAS, the use is in conformance with Chapter 136, Sewers and Sewage Disposal,
Chapter 147, Stormwater Management, and other applicable local laws.
WHEREAS, the use is in harmony with the general purpose or intent of this chapter,
specifically taking into account the location, character and size of the proposed use and the
description and purpose of the district in which such use is proposed, the nature and intensity
of the activities to be involved in or conducted in connection with the proposed use and the
nature and rate of any increase in the burden on supporting public services and facilities
which will follow the approval of the proposed use.
WHEREAS, the establishment, maintenance or operation of the proposed use will not create
public hazards from traffic, traffic congestion or the parking of vehicles and/or equipment or
be otherwise detrimental to the health, safety or general welfare of persons residing or
working in the neighborhood or to the general welfare of the Town. In the review of such
projects the Planning Board considered and will make a finding that traffic access and
circulation, road intersections, road and driveway widths, and traffic controls are adequate.
Additionally, the Board finds that the off-street parking and loading facilities are
appropriately located and arranged and sufficient to meet traffic anticipated to be generated
by the new use. In the review of commercial and industrial development, where internal
roadways are not provided, the Planning Board has determined it is feasible to link parking
areas to allow for an internal flow of traffic. Where it is feasible, a twenty-foot connection
way must be provided. If the adjacent property is undeveloped, then a connection way shall
be identified on the site plan for future linkage. The Planning Board shall also consider
interconnection of commercial use areas or other properties to allow for pedestrian access and
circulation.
WHEREAS, the project will not have an undue adverse impact upon the natural, scenic,
aesthetic, ecological, wildlife, historic, recreational or open space resources of the Town or the
Adirondack Park or upon the ability of the public to provide supporting facilities and services
made necessary by the project, taking into account the commercial, industrial, residential,
recreational or other benefits that might be derived from the project. In making the
determination hereunder, the Planning Board has considered those factors pertinent to the
project contained in the development considerations set forth herein under this § 179-9-080 of
this chapter, and in so doing, the Planning Board has made a net overall evaluation of the
project in relation to the development objectives and general guidelines set forth in this § 179-
9-080 of this article.
31
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that
WE FIND THE FOLLOWING, The application is hereby Approved in accordance with the
resolution prepared by Staff and is subject to the following conditions which shall be listed on
the final plans submitted to the Zoning Administrator:
1. All site related improvements, such as but not limited to landscaping and lighting,
shown on plans shall be complete within one year of obtaining a building permit, and
no later than 6 months after receiving a building and codes certificate of occupancy.
2. Final, approved plans in compliance with this site plan must be submitted to the
Community Development Dept. before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building & Codes personnel. Subsequent issuance of further
permits; including building permits are dependent on receipt.
Duly adopted this 17th day of January, 2006, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Goetz, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Ford, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Vollaro
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Steffan
SUBDIVISION NO. 27-2005 PRELIMINARY & FINAL STAGE SEQR TYPE UNLISTED
SHIRLEY HARVEY AGENT(S): VAN DUSEN & STEVES OWNER(S): SAME ZONING
SR-1A LOCATION WEST MT. RD. & CLENDON BROOK APPLICANT PROPOSES
SUBDIVISION OF A 2.46 ACRE PARCEL INTO TWO RESIDENTIAL LOTS OF 1.15 & 1.31
ACRES, ONE WITH EXISTING HOME AND ONE TO BE BUILT. SUBDIVISIONS OF LAND
REQUIRE REVIEW BY THE PLANNING BOARD. CROSS REF. NONE FOUND WARREN
COUNTY PLANNING N/A ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY YES LOT SIZE 2.46 +/- ACRES
TAX MAP NO. 301.17-1-3 SECTION A-183
MATT STEVES, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. STEVES-Good evening. Matt Steves, again, representing Shirley Harvey on this
application. This is a two lot subdivision on the corner of Clendon Brook Road and West
Mountain Road. Clendon Brook Road is the extension of Sherman Avenue. It’s also shown
on our map. Both lots with the front, the existing home on the northerly lot fronts on West
Mountain Road and the new proposed house on the southerly lot would face West Mountain
Road as well. They would share a common drive. There was an old structure, years ago, on
the southerly lot that has subsequently been torn down, and now we’re just in, like I say, for
a two lot subdivision. I had met with Craig Brown on this application, for a pre-submission
conference, and actually was under his review for a two lot administrative and he was ready
to sign the mylar I brought over when we both looked at the map and said, oh, oh, we’re
within the bounds of the Adirondack Park Agency, it kind of goes right down the middle of
our lot. So, therefore, it cannot be a two lot administrative, but must come in front of this
Board. You do have an approved plan within the Adirondack Park, but that falls out of the
purview of a two lot administrative if it was within the bounds of the Adirondack Park. So
that’s why we’re here in front of you. The property is all good, sandy soils in this area. It’s
before the drop. The drop is to the west, toward Clendon Brook in the back of our lot, on the
side of the Maille property. Like I said, the existing house won’t be affected by the
construction of one new single family home on the southerly lot. There was also a change
that Susan Barden had brought up. I know it was about two months ago we did a two lot
subdivision. I believe we used the Short Form. Typically on major subdivisions we use the
Long Form. Like I said, when this was originally a two lot administrative, we submitted the
Short Form, but I did submit a Long Form to Susan tonight for your review during the
subdivision application, and I do apologize for that.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. I’ll ask, are you finished for now, Matt?
MR. STEVES-Yes.
MR. VOLLARO-I’m going to open the public hearing. Is there anybody here wanting to talk
to the application for Shirley Harvey? Anybody at all?
32
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. VOLLARO-I will close the public hearing and take questions from the Board on this
application.
MR. FORD-Could we hear Staff notes, please, Bob?
MR. VOLLARO-I think there are Staff. We have a minimal amount of Staff notes, but
would you like them read?
MR. FORD-Yes, please.
MR. VOLLARO-Susan, do you want to read the Staff notes concerning this application?
MRS. BARDEN-Sure. Mr. Ford, just under Staff Comments?
MR. FORD-Yes.
MRS. BARDEN-Lot “B” has an existing house, the driveway to that residence will be
abandoned and a new shared driveway with Lot “A” will be constructed. On the site plan
“drives to be removed” should be more specific. A note that the driveway surfaces are to be
removed, seeded and mulched would provide assurance that the result of this subdivision will
not be three driveways. It should also be specified when this work will be completed, perhaps
when a building permit is issued for the proposed construction on Lot “A”. The location of
the existing septic system servicing the existing house should be shown on the map. In
addition, test pit information for the proposed septic should be noted on the map. It appears
that the proposed house will meet the area and dimensional requirements of the SR Zone.
MR. FORD-Thank you.
MR. VOLLARO-I think they’re all pertinent pieces of information as well. I’ve got all of
that noted on my map as well.
MR. STEVES-Yes, and we have no concerns with any of those, and no problems. As far as
the driveways to be removed, we can add the note to be mulched and seeded, however the
Board would like that.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s what I have on mine, drive to be removed and seeded for grass cover.
MR. STEVES-That’s fine.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s what I had put on mine.
MR. STEVES-The existing septic system, to the best of our ability, is just to the west and to
the north of the existing house, kind of in between the house and the barn. I can depict that
on there, because this is Town water here. It won’t be the separation distance with the
existing well that was on the southerly lot. That, like I say, was there from the previous
building that was there years ago.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. So I had a question on that. My question was, this is public water in
this area. What will this lot, what will the well be used for? It’s pre-existing?
MR. STEVES-It’s pre-existing, yes. If anything, the Town water is definitely going to be
hooked up to the new structure. If anything that well would just be used for like an irrigation
system or something.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. STEVES-It’s not going to be used for supplying the house with its primary water.
33
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. VOLLARO-All right. I understand that.
MR. FORD-The existing houses uses what for water?
MR. STEVES-Town water.
MR. FORD-Town? Okay. Thank you.
MR. STEVES-There was an old structure on this property, on the south. It was actually at
one time two residences on this parcel, and that has been torn down in years past, and that’s
where that well is from.
MR. VOLLARO-How about the requirement for test pit and perc data on that proposed
septic system? Are you going to do something with that?
MR. STEVES-I, you know, we can perform one if it’s the liking of this Board. This area is
predominantly sands. We have done percs in lots across the street, directly across the street,
and directly to the north on the other side of Sherman Avenue in the last year and a half, and
I’ve had test pits done that saw fine sands to course sands at about seven feet. If you want
one done prior to the issuance of a building permit, I have no objections to that whatsoever.
Typically, like I said, when we reviewed this with Craig as far as a two lot administrative,
that wasn’t even required, and I’m not using that as an excuse, I’m just saying that that’s
why this has transformed to coming in front of this Board, because of the fact it’s within the
Adirondack Park, but I know you do not like conditions of approval, Bob, but if that’s the
only hang up here, I have no problem with stipulating that a perc test be performed in the
area of the proposed septic system, and that would be sign off on by Dave Hatin, which is
required on single lots in the Town of Queensbury anyway.
MR. VOLLARO-I know that for a single lot like this that he’s going to have to issue a CO
based on a satisfactory septic system.
MR. STEVES-That’s correct. I mean, single lots are required to have that data provided to
the Building Inspector anyway.
MR. VOLLARO-First of all, I know how sandy it is up in the pines, because I live around the
corner from this, and I know that it’s all sand. I’ve dug in the back, and it’s just, it goes
down and down and down, it’s nothing but sand. So I don’t think we even need that. I’ll
take questions from the Board as to whether they think we need test pit and perc data for
that proposed septic leachfield or not.
MR. METIVIER-I mean, in this particular case, this honestly probably shouldn’t have even
been in front of us. I mean, I understand why it is, but I don’t think it’s required, I really
don’t. The guys at the Town do a great job at that.
MR. VOLLARO-I think so.
MR. FORD-I concur with that.
MR. VOLLARO-We’re going to have a shared driveway because both of these houses are
going to be using that one drive, and we’re into this shared driveway thing again, that Mr.
Salvador had addressed a little bit ago. In keeping with what we did on the previous
application, probably there should be some sort of an agreement.
MR. STEVES-How about the exact same wording on the mylar for this application that was
on the previous application?
MR. VOLLARO-That would do it for me, because I’m now really going back to directions
that we got from our Counsel.
MR. STEVES-And this is a shared driveway for two lots that is a requirement of your Code
as well. We’re not into the three and four, when you get into four lots it would require a
Homeowners Associations, or a separate entity, being a separate taxable entity, as far as a
private road. This is a shared driveway access off the road.
MR. VOLLARO-It’s anything over three that’s required for a Homeowners Association.
34
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. STEVES-That’s correct. So I have no problem with that same note on the map, if that
was suitable in the last application.
MR. VOLLARO-I think it was.
MR. HUNSINGER-Would that still be filed with the deeds on the properties, though?
MR. STEVES-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. VOLLARO-He’s going to use the same language we used with Blackburn.
MR. HUNSINGER-I just wanted to make sure.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. I think that’s the only stipulation that we would have, or two of
them really. We want the driveways to be removed, seeded, and grass covered, that’s one.
Two, there will be a maintenance agreement reading identically to what the reading was on
the Blackburn application.
MR. STEVES-I agree.
MR. VOLLARO-And I don’t see anything else in here.
MR. SEGULJIC-Maybe I missed it, but the location of the septic system.
MR. STEVES-I will place that on.
MR. VOLLARO-The location for the septic system for Lot One. That’s probably a pre-
existing septic location, I would think.
MR. STEVES-That’s correct.
MR. VOLLARO-Do you know where it is?
MR. STEVES-It’s approximately to the northwest of the home, between there and the park.
MR. VOLLARO-There’s only one way to find out where it is, you know. Really. Since that’s
pre-existing, I don’t now whether or not we really need to know where that septic location is,
because that house has been functioning now. It’s occupied.
MR. STEVES-Correct.
MRS. BARDEN-I think an approximate location is fine, just to clarify this, but, I mean,
you’re approving a second lot. You have to make sure that the existing house and the
existing septic system are on the existing lot.
MR. STEVES-That’s correct.
MR. VOLLARO-Say that again?
MRS. BARDEN-You have to verify that the existing septic system is on that lot. So that
there’s no question that it might be on.
MR. VOLLARO-And not on a lot in question.
MRS. BARDEN-Exactly.
MR. STEVES-Or straddling the property line, splitting the septic in half.
MRS. BARDEN-Right.
MR. STEVES-And I have no problem denoting that as approximate septic location.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. So that’s another one. So the septic location has got to be one. Two,
we’re going to have a maintenance agreement. Three, we’re going to have seeded and grass
cover for the removal of the two drives.
MR. STEVES-Correct.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s three conditions that I see.
MR. STEVES-And no problem with any of those.
MR. VOLLARO-And say probably Number Four is that the existing well is pre-existing and
not to be used for water, because we’re in a public water area.
MR. STEVES-That’s fine. They’re required to.
MR. SEGULJIC-They can still use it.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, for watering things.
MR. STEVES-As far as, if you’re within the water district, you have to hook up to the water.
MR. METIVIER-Right, but you could still use your well, if you so desire, I mean, for
watering or whatever.
MR. VOLLARO-All right. Does somebody want to make a motion?
MR. METIVIER-Do we have to do a SEQRA?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, we have to do a SEQRA.
MR. VOLLARO-We have a Long Form to go.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 27-2005, Introduced by Anthony Metivier who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Thomas Ford:
WHEREAS, there is presently before the Planning Board an application for:
SHIRLEY HARVEY, and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning
Board action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No Federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is Unlisted in the Department of
Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental
Quality Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental
concern and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a
significant environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the
Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this
Board finds that the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby
36
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-
significance or a negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 17 day of January, 2006, by the following vote:
th
AYES: Mr. Ford, Mr. Goetz, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Vollaro
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Steffan
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. Do we have a motion for approval of the Preliminary Stage? Before
we get to the approval, I just want to ask a question of Staff. There’s a comment in the
Preliminary application, where it says, Whereas the developer shall sign and date a copy of
the Planning Board’s finding’s sheet, approval shall be deemed to have occurred upon the
return of such findings sheet to the Planning Board, and it references 183-10 F(4). I’ve never
seen that in any one of our Preliminary’s before. Has anybody seen that? I don’t know, I’ve
never seen a findings sheet, since I’ve been on this Board, seven years or so.
MR. STEVES-That’s a new one for me.
MR. METIVIER-So do we strike that? If so, I do apologize.
MR. VOLLARO-I would prefer to get it out of there. I’m not expecting a Planning Board
findings sheet.
MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 27-2005 SHIRLEY
HARVEY, Introduced by Anthony Metivier who moved for its adoption, seconded by Chris
Hunsinger:
WHEREAS, an application has been make to this board for the following:
Applicant proposes a subdivision of a 2.46 acre parcel into two residential lots of 1.15 & 1.31
acres, one with existing home and one to be built. Subdivisions of land require review by the
Planning Board.
WHEREAS, the application was received on 12/15/2005; and
WHEREAS, the above is supported with all documentation, public comment, and
application materials in file of record; and
WHEREAS, pursuant to Chapter A183, Subdivision of Land, A183-10C, D of the Code of the
Town of Queensbury a public hearing was advertised and was held on 1/17/06; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has determined that the proposal complies with the
Subdivision application requirements of the Code of the Town Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has considered the environmental factors found in the Code
of the Town of Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been
considered and the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration; and/or if
application is a modification, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review
Act have been considered; and the proposed modification(s) do not result in any new or
significantly different environmental impacts, and, therefore, no further SEQRA review is
necessary; and
Preliminary [ A183-10 F(2) ( 3) ( 4) ]]
WHEREAS, the modifications to the preliminary plat are or are not acceptable; and [A -
183-10 F (2) ]
WHEREAS, the character and extent of any required improvement for which waivers may
have been requested and which, in its opinion, may be waived without jeopardy to the public
health, safety, morals and general welfare; and [ A183-10 F (2) ]
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
WHEREAS, approval of this preliminary plat shall not constitute approval of the
subdivision plat but rather, it shall be deemed an expression of approval of the design
submitted on the preliminary plat and as a guide to the preparation of the subdivision plat. [
A183-10 F (3) ]
WHEREAS, the developer shall sign and date a copy of the Planning Board's findings sheet,
and such approval shall be deemed to have occurred upon the return of such signed findings
sheet to the Planning Board. [ A183-10 F (4) ]
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that
We find the following: The application for Preliminary Stage is hereby Approved in
accordance with the resolution prepared by Staff but removing in the resolution
Duly adopted this 17th day of January 2006 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Goetz, Mr. Ford, Mr. Vollaro
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Steffan
MR. VOLLARO-Again, on the Final, we have another similar thing on the Final. It says,
whereas the final plan shows the exact location and depth of sewer and water services. It has
also set forth the exact layout and dimensions of the proposed streets with the street names
and house numbers. We don’t know what the exact location and the exact depth of sewer and
water service is.
MR. STEVES-That almost sounds like a motion for another application. Because it says
streets.
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t think this is applicable to this particular, see, a lot of this looks like
boilerplate, to me, that’s just been cast upon, and sometimes if it’s our motion, I think we
ought to be careful as to how we prepare them. So I would make a recommendation to
whoever’s going to make the motion to talk about striking that whereas.
MR. STEVES-It’s not like you’re crossing through an entire lot to get to a house on another
lot like you were on the other one. This application, the shared portion of it, is just the throat
off the road and then you instantly branch onto your own lot. In the other instance, the
driveway goes through the middle of a lot to get to two other lots. In this instance, the
property line’s right down the middle of the driveway. So your major shared portion is the
throat just on the road, and then you just branch right off. So the 50/50 rule would be exact
because you’re only sharing the throat off West Mountain Road.
MOTION TO APPROVE FINAL STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 27-2005 SHIRLEY HARVEY,
Introduced by Anthony Metivier who moved for its adoption, seconded by Chris Hunsinger:
WHEREAS, an application has been make to this board for the following:
Applicant proposes a subdivision of a 2.46 acre parcel into two residential lots of 1.15 & 1.31
acres, one with existing home and one to be built. Subdivisions of land require review by the
Planning Board.
WHEREAS, the application was received 12/15/05; and
WHEREAS, the above is supported with all documentation, public comment, and
application materials in file of record; and
WHEREAS, pursuant to Chapter A183, Subdivision of Land, A183-10C, D of the Code of the
Town of Queensbury a public hearing was advertised and was held on 1/17/06; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has determined that the proposal complies with the
Subdivision application requirements of the Code of the Town Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has considered the environmental factors found in the Code
of the Town of Queensbury (Zoning); and
38
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
WHEREAS, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been
considered and the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration; and/or if
application is a modification, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review
Act have been considered; and the proposed modification(s) do not result in any new or
significantly different environmental impacts, and, therefore, no further SEQRA review is
necessary; and
Final [ A183-13 E (2) (3) (4) ]
WHEREAS, upon granting conditional approval of the final plat, the Planning Board shall
empower a duly designated officer to sign the plat upon compliance with such conditions and
requirements as may be stated in its resolution of conditional approval. Within five days of
such resolution, the plat shall be certified by the Chairman of the Planning Board as
conditionally approved and a copy filed in the Planning Office and a certified copy mailed to
the subdivider. The copy mailed to the subdivider shall include two findings sheets, one of
which shall be signed by the applicant and returned to the Planning Board. Such
requirements which, when completed, will authorize the signing of the conditionally approved
final plat. Upon completion of such requirements to the satisfaction of the duly designated
office of the Planning Board, the plat shall be deemed to have received final approval, and
such officer shall sign the plat accordingly. Conditional approval of a final plat shall expire
180 days after the date of the resolution granting such approval unless the requirements have
been certified as completed within that time. The Planning Board may, however, extend the
time within which a conditionally approved plat may be submitted for signature if, in its
opinion, such extension is warranted in the circumstances, for one or two additional periods of
90 days each. [Amended 6-3-1991] [ A-183-13 E (2) ]
WHEREAS, the final plat shows exact location and depth of sewer and water service. It has
also set forth the exact layout and dimensions of proposed streets with the street names and
house numbers. [ A183-13 E (3) ]
WHEREAS, final approval of the subdivision plat plan shall be limited to that phase of the
development currently pending before the Planning Board. [ A183-13 E (4) ]
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that We find the following: The application for
Final Stage is hereby Approved in accordance with the resolution prepared by Staff and is
subject to the following conditions which shall be listed on the final plat submitted for
Planning Board Chairman’s signature and filing:
1. The driveways that are noted to be removed must be seeded and covered with mulch
and grass seed.
2. Identify the location of the septic system on Lot B and note that on the plat, noting
that this is an approximate location for the septic system.
3. A maintenance agreement for the shared driveways be noted on the plat indicating
that the shared driveways shall be maintained by all users over length shared. Each
must pay cost of said maintenance be it plowing or repairing as follows: Lot A is one
half and Lot B one half. The owner shall not obstruct, impede, or interfere with other
lot owner’s reasonable use of such easement area for the purpose of ingress and egress
to and from the perspective lots. Each owner shall have the right to enforce by at law
or in equity all restrictions, conditions, covenants and charges now imposed in the
event legal action to compel enforcement is made by any owner, he shall be entitled to
recover court costs and the reasonable attorney’s fees incurred from violating owner
or owners.
4. Recreation fees in the amount of $ 500.00 per lot are applicable to this subdivision
according to the requirements of Chapter 124.
5. Waiver request(s) are granted: Sketch plan, Stormwater, Grading and Landscaping
Plan.
6. All necessary outside agency approvals have been received by the applicant, with a
copy sent to and received by Planning Department Staff within 180 days.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
4. The plat must be filed with the County Clerk within 60 days of receipt by Planning
Department Staff of outside agency approvals noted.
5. Final, approved plans in compliance with this subdivision must be submitted to the
Community Development Dept. before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building & Codes personnel. Subsequent issuance of further
permits; including building permits are dependent on receipt
6. All site related improvements, such as but not limited to landscaping and lighting,
shown on plans shall be complete within one year of obtaining a building permit, and
no later than 6 months after receiving a building and codes certificate of occupancy.
Duly adopted this 17 day of January, 2006, by the following vote:
th
AYES: Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Goetz, Mr. Ford, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Vollaro
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Steffan
MR. STEVES-Thank you.
SUBDIVISION NO. 21-2005 PRELIMINARY & FINAL STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 21-2005
SEQR TYPE UNLISTED MICHAELS GROUP AGENT(S): VAN DUSEN & STEVES
OWNER(S): ROLAND AKINS, ROBIN BREWER ZONING SR-1A LOCATION SOUTH
SIDE CORINTH RD. PROPOSED 20-LOT CLUSTER SUBDIVISION, RESULTING IN 18
RESIDENTIAL LOTS [LOTS RANGING IN SIZE FROM 0.41 ACRES TO 2.97 ACRES] AND 2
(TWO) AREAS OF OPEN SPACE TOTALING 11-ACRES. APPLICANT PROPOSES
APPROXIMATELY 860 LINEAR FEET OF PRIVATE DRIVES SUBDIVISIONS OF LAND
REQUIRE REVIEW BY THE PLANNING BOARD. CROSS REF. SKETCH PLAN 11/22/05
WARREN COUNTY PLANNING N/A LOT SIZE: 27.24 AC., 2.02 AC. TAX MAP NO.
308.19-1-67, 68 SECTION A-183
MATT STEVES & TOM NACE, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. STEVES-Good evening again. Matt Steves, of Van Dusen and Steves. Tom Nace of
Nace Engineering, representing The Michaels Group for the application located on the south
side of Corinth Road, directly opposite Van Dusen Road, Subdivision named Sutton Place.
Back in front of this Board, we were here a few months ago for conceptual review, discussed it
with the Board, as far as having a subdivision of 18 lots, 18 new lots, one existing house lot,
and the transfer of property basically will horseshoe around this property to the Queensbury
Land Conservancy. I’ve incorporated that into these plans. The full engineering plans have
been submitted. Any questions of that you can address to Tom Nace. We did get a sign off,
as we had discussed before, I had sent this to Kathy O’Brien from DEC regarding the
endangered species. She had the one comment on the east side to incorporate a 20 foot strip
to the Queensbury Land Conservancy against the National Grid, the former Niagara Mohawk
power line. We have incorporated that.
MR. VOLLARO-I think I’m missing something. I didn’t see a DEC letter.
MR. NACE-It’s coming. We just got it.
MR. STEVES-She faxed it to me this afternoon, or e-mailed it, I should say, to me this
afternoon. So we’re handing that out. So that came in today, Bob, as I was getting to, and
Tom’s passing that out.
MR. VOLLARO-I’m going to take a minute to read it.
MR. STEVES-Okay.
MR. STEVES-And by the way, I’m Mr. Steves, not Mr. Van Dusen.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. I’ve got you. Do you want to go forward with it?
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. NACE-Sure. For the record, Tom Nace, Nace Engineering. You probably have all
received Jim Houston’s C.T. Male comment letter, dated, I believe, the 12 of January. We
th
responded to that January 13, and addressed his comments. We have back, as of this
th
morning, an e-mail response from Jim Edwards in which he says we have addressed many of
his comments from the January 12 comment letter with the following exceptions. The first
th
is Item Number Four. He says additional test pits will be dug at a deeper depth to confirm
adequate separation to groundwater. The results will be forthcoming. That’s separation
between the bottom of our stormwater drywells.
MR. VOLLARO-Talking about 12 feet, I think.
MR. NACE-And we dug those this morning, and we did have 12 feet of depth, and no sign of
any mottling or seasonal high groundwater. So those were done at three different locations
where the drywells will be located, and those test results will be put on the final drawings.
MR. METIVIER-You dug those this morning?
MR. NACE-Yes.
MR. METIVIER-Do you realize it was eight below this morning? It was 45° two days ago?
MR. NACE-I sent Tom Center out to do it. The second item in his e-mail was Number
Eleven, temporary sediment basin details. He says, he agrees that infiltration will occur
during the summer months, details would be warranted for winter/spring construction or a
note should be added limiting the disturbance activities to summer and fall. We will add that
note limiting the construction to summer/fall, and in all practical parameters they won’t start
construction until frost is out of the ground this spring, and third is Number Eighteen, it says
reasonable not to show location of gas and electric. They had wanted to know where gas and
electric would be connected out at Corinth Road. We have no control over that. NiMo or
National Grid puts it where they want, and that was my response to him. He just says in his
note that a note should be added indicating distance to those existing utilities on Corinth
Road. There on Corinth Road we’ll add a note, something to that effect. I’m not quite sure
what.
MR. STEVES-They’re directly in front. They’re not, you know, east or west on the road that
you’d have to run a significant distance to tie into. The mains run right through, whether it’s
on the north or south side of the road.
MR. NACE-And his last item was a copy of the signoff letter from DEC regarding, he says
New Karner butterfly, but you have that in front of you, the e-mail.
MR. VOLLARO-I think the last sentence in Kathy O’Brien’s letter said I conclude the
project will not negatively effect the Karner blue or Frosted Elfin. I think that says it all as
far as she’s concerned.
MR. NACE-We will provide this final drawing to her for her records, but we have done
exactly what she had requested.
MR. VOLLARO-The drawing that you have, that I looked at, looks like it satisfies her
requirement.
MR. NACE-It does.
MR. STEVES-She got this e-mail, a mail has come in, I believe, subsequent to that. I did
mail her a copy of this. She does have this exact plan.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. I have a couple of questions. What I would like to do, if you’re
finished with your presentation.
MR. NACE-I’m done.
MR. VOLLARO-I’d like to open the public hearing and see if there’s any folks here that
would like to speak to this application. There are some people here I can see that they must
want to talk about this. So let’s give up the table for a few minutes and see what they’ve got.
41
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
Anybody who would like to speak to this application of Subdivision No. 21-2005 for Sutton
Place?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
JEFF LA MAY
MR. LA MAY-Hello. My name is Jeff LaMay. I live approximately 500 feet from where the
construction will be taking place, and my only concern is, in construction of an area that size,
17 or so residential lots, there’s going to be a lot of racket being made during the course of the
day. There’s no way to get around it. I would like to propose to the Board that we set up a
timeframe of a workday, possibly. I was thinking, you know, no earlier than 7 a.m., and then
to close out at 7 p.m. I mean, that’s a 12 hour workday. Of course you know with the spring
and summer, the extended daylight time, I think it would only be fair to the folks in the
surrounding neighborhoods not to wake up and go to bed listening to excavation and
construction. That’s all I had.
MR. VOLLARO-So you’re asking for seven to seven?
MR. LA MAY-Seven to seven.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. METIVIER-Seven days a week?
MR. LA MAY-No. I mean, if you’re asking me, I’m saying, you know, I mean, I’m not
trying to get in the way of progress here.
MR. VOLLARO-When work is taking place, it will start at seven and stop at seven.
MR. LA MAY-I mean, I think that would be reasonable. I mean, you know, there’s daylight
between five and five thirty in the summer time, and until eight thirty, almost nine o’clock at
night, and we’re all working people, and when we come home at the end of our day, we’d like
a little peace and quiet.
MR. VOLLARO-Sure, not a problem. I don’t think there’d be a problem with the applicant
for seven to seven, but we’ll certainly discuss that with him when he comes back up. Thank
you.
MR. LA MAY-You’re welcome.
MR. VOLLARO-Mr. Salvador.
JOHN SALVADOR
MR. SALVADOR-Yes. My name is John Salvador. I notice here on the project description
that the applicant proposes about 860 lineal feet of private drives. I presume that this is a
private drive that’ll have to be paid for and the care and maintenance of it.
MR. VOLLARO-You’re talking about the driveways from the house to road?
MR. STEVES-I think it was advertised in the Staff notes that it’s actually a Town road we’re
proposing to develop to convey to the Town.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes. I would think so. That’s what I thought. I thought it was a conveyed
road, when I read it.
MR. SALVADOR-Well, I read here approximately 860 lineal feet of private drives.
MR. SALVADOR-That’s incorrect.
MR. SALVADOR-Okay. In any case, whatever’s going to be done eventually with a private
drive, the building has to meet certain standards.
42
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, but this is not going to be private. This is going to be turned over to
the Town. Is that correct?
MR. SALVADOR-If the Town will take it, if the Town will take it. The Town doesn’t have
to take it.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s true, John.
MR. SALVADOR-So we have to do it as though the Town is not going to take it. If they do,
well then, good, then providing they’ve built it according to certain standards, the Town can
take it. In the meantime, though, we have to assume that it’s a private drive.
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t think so.
MR. SALVADOR-Until the Town takes it, it is a private drive.
MR. VOLLARO-I think unless it’s stated in the applications that they intend to keep it as a
private drive, that’s fine, but I think they’ve stated in the application they intend to turn it
over to the Town when it’s built to Town standards.
MR. SALVADOR-If that’s their intent, that’s fine, and providing they do it in a certain way
and meet certain standards, it can happen, but the Town reserves the right not to take it.
That’s all.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s fine.
MR. SALVADOR-Now, I’ll touch a little bit on the previous applications where they have
private drives. I would suggest that these maintenance agreements be recorded at the County
Clerk’s Office, that the deeds refer to the location of these maintenance agreements in the
record, that the subdivision plats be referenced either as included in the deeds or their
location referenced in the deed. This is also true for a project like this, should be, and that
protects everyone then. Everyone’s on notice, anyone that searches the title for one of these
properties can see what the encumbrances are for the owner. So that should be a requirement
I think.
MR. VOLLARO-When I go to the County and pull a plat, like, for example, the Blackburn
plat, or the plat that’s going to be done on the Harvey’s, the note is on the plat, a note is right
there that talks to the deed and once I see it, in other words, I’m going to look at that and I
see that, I know that I’m going to be, if I want to get on to this subdivision, that I’m going to
be responsible for.
MR. SALVADOR-Yes, providing you know that the plot of ground you’re looking at was the
subject of a subdivision approval. Then you will go look for a subdivision plat. The
maintenance agreement, that should also be filed at the County and its location referenced in
the deed.
MR. VOLLARO-Thank you. Anybody else want to speak to this application? With that, I
will close the public hearing. I’m going to leave the public hearing open for a little bit, for a
reason. I will get to that in a little bit. I’ve got some questions, but I’ll reserve those and let
the Board discuss what they’d like to discuss on this application.
MR. GOETZ-I have a couple of questions. I go by there every day. At the end of Van Dusen
Road, that’s a very, very busy road. Corinth Road at that point, the traffic moves very
rapidly. I have some sorts of concern of the people being able to have enough visibility to be
able to get in and out without any injury, and I can’t tell by your plan here, how that
addresses it.
MR. NACE-The sight distance is given on the plans, and of course to the east the sight
distance is pretty unlimited, over 3,000 feet. To the west, which is your concern I’m sure, the
sight distance is a little over 500 feet. For access purposes, DOT sets a minimum required
sight distance to be equal to the stopping distance of the traveling speed on that thru way, or
on that main road, and in this case I believe, if I’m not mistaken, the actual stopping distance
is just over 400 feet. So we are in excess of that. One of the things, of course you could
always request that the County, and they may do this on their own, is to post an advisory
speed, an advisory signs of the intersection to the west, so that people are forewarned of it.
43
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
There’s already the Van Dusen Road intersection, but that would certainly be one thing the
Board could request the County, or the Town could request that the County post signs
advising.
MR. STEVES-Four way intersection.
MR. NACE-Right.
MR. STEVES-And that’s another reason you would try to align the roads is for better
visibility in all directions and not offset the road so you don’t know what’s coming in from the
road opposite you, but not directly opposite.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes. That, coming from east to west on that road, just before you get to
Van Dusen, there is a sign that shows that Van Dusen’s going to be coming out. That could
be changed.
MR. NACE-That would be changed, and I think there is an advisory sign that they could
actually put below that symbol sign that, you know, says take extra caution. I can’t tell you
exact what it looks like.
MR. STEVES-Put one to the west of the intersection as well, for people traveling east bound.
MR. VOLLARO-And that was something that I think the Town has to check with the
County on.
MR. NACE-Correct.
MR. VOLLARO-That would be up in Warrensburg, since it’s a County road.
MR. NACE-That’s right.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s Mr. Remington up there? Is that Mr. Bill Remington?
MR. NACE-No, the Bill Remington, actually the person that would really do that would
probably be George Van Dusen.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. Have you got any pull with him at all?
MR. STEVES-Yes. Do you want me to talk to George about that?
MR. NACE-We have to obviously, or the contractor will have to get a permit from the
County.
MR. GOETZ-I’d like to see something done, because particularly when you’re going from east
to west, you know, at sunset, you’re blinded. My second question is about the QLC. They
said they want to take over that part of the property.
MR. STEVES-If this is approved, they will be taking that property over, correct.
MR. GOETZ-Do we have anything in writing that says if it’s approved they will be taking it
over?
MR. STEVES-I can get it in writing for you. I can guarantee you that the meeting of the
QLC took place, and they had said that they definitely, if this approval is granted, they will
be taking ownership of that property. Mr. Akins is in the audience as well, and he has talked
to them, at length, and he can reiterate that. My father was the President of that particular
organization, is in California. Lucky him, but I can get a letter if you would like, but I’d state
that I know for a fact that that is what’s going to happen.
MR. VOLLARO-I have a comment of the same kind on my sheet, and when we did this
Sketch Plan, we did a Sketch, obviously, before this. In the minutes of the Sketch Plan it was
stated that a copy of the QLC agreement to accept the 11.25 acres as open space for passive
recreation, the QLC letter should also address maintenance, access and parking, but basically
it was said when we did Sketch that we would have that here.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. STEVES-They did do that, and I don’t know if Mr. Akins has a copy of that. I don’t
have a copy. I can get a copy.
MR. VOLLARO-That was kind of a condition we put in at Sketch, and you said, I remember
your words, we’ve got it here, that said, yes, I will provide that. So I think we really need
that to know that their intent is to do so, if the project is approved.
MR. STEVES-Absolutely it is their intent, and we’ll get the letter.
MR. GOETZ-That was a good point, Bob. Where I noticed on your plan that the access to
get into that land, where would the parking be? Where do you propose that people would
park?
MR. NACE-That’s really just for foot access. Their intention is to string the whole corridor of
Clendon Brook together with public access and as you know there’s a parking, a public access
point that’s fairly well developed in Hudson Pointe subdivision, and I think this is just over
the hill from that section of Hudson Pointe.
MR. GOETZ-Excuse me? Right over the hill? That’s quite a walk from where that parking
is at Hudson Pointe to get to this location.
MR. STEVES-That’s the intent. They’re trying to tie that together with the property that’s
immediately to the south of this, and then the Niagara Mohawk power line that is there,
there’s paths across it, and they’re working on tying that together into the trail system in
Hudson Pointe. That’s exactly what they’re proposing to do.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, I think when the Land Conservancy takes this on to allow passive
recreation in this area, they’re going to have to, because I notice there’s, right off the road on
the corner of the lot there’s an access point there and it goes up as a foot path it looks like.
MR. NACE-Correct, as a foot path.
MR. VOLLARO-All the way up, but in other words, for somebody to be able to use that
would have to walk to that spot, get on the foot path and get up it to the recreation area.
MR. NACE-The idea that this would give access to future procurements across the road is
really the issue that they’re thinking of.
MR. VOLLARO-But people won’t be able to get to this for passive recreation if they have an
automobile. I don’t know how they’re going to do that.
MR. STEVES-The main reason for the 40 foot access is that in your Code it says any parcel of
land must have at least 40 foot of frontage on a Town road.
MR. VOLLARO-I saw that. I saw that’s why you had 40 feet there. I see that, but I think
when the QLC letter comes out, they also ought to address the maintenance, the access and
the parking and the allowed type of passive recreation that they’re going to allow. I mean,
passive recreation to me could be shooting, for example, that’s passive recreation. I’m sure
they don’t want that.
MR. STEVES-No motorized vehicles, foot traffic only. That’s exactly what it’s going to be.
MR. VOLLARO-Now that letter, I think, should probably also be incorporated into the deed
granting ownership of this property to the QLC. There should be a deed, when I get the deed,
when I buy a house at Sutton Place, I see that the QLC owns and has been deeded that lot.
In other words, it shows on my deed that the QLC now owns that lot for passive recreation.
MR. STEVES-I don’t know if that can be done.
MR. METIVIER-I don’t think that can be done, Bob.
MR. STEVES-That’s just referencing who your neighbor is, per se. It’s going to be filed as
such. The filed subdivision, your deed can reference the filed subdivision again, which is
typical, and then on the filed subdivision the note can say this land is being transferred to the
Queensbury Land Conservancy.
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MR. VOLLARO-Or is owned by. Essentially the Queensbury Land Conservancy will have a
deed to this property.
MR. STEVES-They’ll have a deed to that prior to the sale of any of the other lots, correct.
They will own that prior to any of the other lots being sold to individual homeowners.
MR. VOLLARO-Right, but they will have a deed for that.
MR. STEVES-Correct.
MR. VOLLARO-And I, as an owner of one of those properties, ought to know that the QLC is
a deeded neighbor, in effect.
MR. METIVIER-What would that accomplish, though?
MR. VOLLARO-Well, I just want to make sure that the QLC, that they have a deed to the
property. That’s the point.
MR. METIVIER-Yes. I’m sorry, but why would you reference everybody else, that they
would have that?
MR. STEVES-Just say that that lot must be transferred before any of the other ones can be
transferred to individual owners. That’s fine.
MR. VOLLARO-They have to own it before the other individual owners take.
MR. STEVES-Before the developer sells the individual lot. Yes, that’s fine.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s what I’m really driving at. The QLC owns that piece, so that there’s
no question that it’s intended to be conveyed or that was the purpose or the thought, but that
it is actually done and we agree.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. I have a note on the additional testing for drywells. That also came
up on C.T. Male’s. They talked about an effluent pump for Lot 10. Was that cleared up?
MR. NACE-Yes. We responded to that. There is a pump. There is a detail for it now.
MR. VOLLARO-There wasn’t before, but there will be, or is there?
MR. NACE-The pump was shown schematically on the layout plan, but there were no details
provided. Now we have provided the details.
MR. VOLLARO-All right, and that would be on what drawing S-1?
MR. NACE-That’s on S-7. Your drawing on S-7, Bob, in the lower left corner shows a septic
tank and a distribution box. The new details show there’s a septic tank and effluent pump
station, if required.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. So that would be a new drawing that we would get at Final?
MR. NACE-This is what has been sent to C.T. Male for their review.
MR. VOLLARO-During the last meeting, I guess it was 27, I believe, Mrs. Steffan made a
comment concerning Lot Two and Three being real small lots, like a half acre I believe,
something like that. She talked about affordable housing.
MR. STEVES-We talked to the developer about those, and as he said those two would be the
most, quote unquote, you can’t consider it an affordable housing project without
incorporating the entire property, but as far as those two lots would be the lower end of the
price range within that subdivision.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. STEVES-That was the request.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. VOLLARO-You talked to Mr. Michaels about that.
MR. SEGULJIC-Back to stormwater. The 12 inch pipe, is that coming from the cul de sac?
MR. NACE-The emergency overflows? Yes.
MR. SEGULJIC-That’s an emergency overflow?
MR. NACE-It’s simply an emergency, okay. The systems are designed so that even at a 100
year storm the drywells handle everything, okay, but since there is an opportunity to have a
place where any excess water can be dissipated, it’s only prudent to incorporate that.
MR. SEGULJIC-Well, my concern would be, if it’s an emergency, then it would be a bigger
flush, would it not?
MR. NACE-No. In an emergency situation, or in a, say 500 year storm, okay, the drywells
are going to still take the 100 year storm. It’s just that peak above there that’s going to end
up going down the pipe, so to speak, and in that situation we’re all going to be wading.
MR. SEGULJIC-Once again, my concern would be right above the brook. Any flush go
directly into the brook and bring all the sediment and salt.
MR. NACE-Well, no, it spreads out. There’s a riprap spreader detail shown on the plans, and
that would dissipate it and it has a little ways before it actually gets to the brook. I don’t
remember, 30, 40 feet of ground to cover before it gets there.
MR. SEGULJIC-So you don’t expect this ever to be used?
MR. NACE-I don’t expect, you know, unless we’re all flooded out, I don’t expect this to ever
be used.
MR. SEGULJIC-So why do we have it there?
MR. NACE-Like I said, it’s always prudent, in fact, a lot of communities require that if there
is an outlet available for stormwater that you incorporate that into your design, and it’s good
for the design.
MR. SEGULJIC-So why not just oversize the drywells?
MR. NACE-We already have, okay. We’ve sized it so that even in a 100 year storm there’s
still some (lost words) left, okay, but just in the odd event. For instance, I know of one place
where, because of the construction of house lots, a couple of drywells plugged up, and there
was nowhere that that could be outleted, okay, for that emergency. I mean, the drywells
were replaced, but during that one period it would have been nice to have somewhere to
relieve the stormwater in that emergency situation. It was just one of those dumb situations
where the contractor didn’t watch what he was doing.
MR. SEGULJIC-I guess, why are you bringing it out so far, though? Why not bring it
closer? I’m just concerned that in that situation, you’d bring a lot of silt into the brook.
MR. NACE-We’ve brought it down here simply because of what you’ve pointed out. We
don’t want it eroding, we don’t want it out letting on the top of this steep bank. If there were
any flow coming out of it, we’d want to outlet it down here where it’s flat where it can
dissipate before it reaches the brook. If you outlet it up here (lost words) dig a trench down
that steep bank (lost words) brook.
MR. SEGULJIC-And C.T. Male signed off on this I guess?
MR. NACE-Yes.
MR. SEGULJIC-This is the first time I’ve ever seen that.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. NACE-We try to do it wherever, you know, in a lot of Queensbury it’s flat and there’s
really no opportunity to do it, but where there is an opportunity, it’s just good sound design
to do it.
MR. SEGULJIC-And I guess going along with that, why couldn’t you put two, a couple of
parking spaces right where the emergency overflow is, to allow public access there. You
already have the easement there.
MR. STEVES-At the end of the cul de sac?
MR. SEGULJIC-Yes.
MR. STEVES-We have an easement for the Town for maintenance of the stormwater
structure, not for individual, you know, private residents to just come in and park.
MR. NACE-It would be like somebody parking in your front yard.
MR. SEGULJIC-The reality is, aren’t people going to park on the road in front of people’s
houses anyway?
MR. NACE-This public access is really intended simply for, and I think we discussed that at
the last meeting, was primarily for people in this subdivision on the other side of the road to
be able to get access to that land. The people that don’t have lots that back up to that QLC
land, to be able to get access to it.
MR. VOLLARO-I think that was the understanding when we did Sketch Plan, I think we
talked about it that way.
MR. NACE-Correct.
MR. METIVIER-That easement that you have there, that’s strictly for drainage only?
MR. STEVES-Underground stormwater.
MR. METIVIER-Now the only people that really have access to that would be the Town of
Queensbury?
MR. NACE-That’s correct.
MR. STEVES-That would be an easement that would be given to the Highway Department
at the time that the road was dedicated to the Town. There would be an easement for the
stormwater area that is requirement of any Town road that any stormwater or detention
areas or outfalls be given an easement to the Highway Department for maintenance of those.
MR. METIVIER-And normally they would never even bother that area. I’m just curious,
because I have an easement going right through my yard, and it’s the same thing. So I never
even really knew what it meant or what it was, but know that there’s, all the storm basins
collect and then they run back through my backyard into a collection area even, not even,
and that’s all it is, so they can come in at any point and do what they need to do if they had
to.
MR. STEVES-If for some reason that pipe collapsed, and it backs up the system, they would
have the right to come in and just dig up your yard, cut that section of pipe out and replace
that section of pipe, backfill it and get out of there. That’s all it’s for.
MR. HUNSINGER-I had questions about that, and this is primarily coming from the C.T.
Male comment letter, saying that DEC was willing to sign off on the stormwater
management, provided that the Town Highway Department owns and maintains the
drywells, and I guess my question is, and I think we have heard comment from the Town
Highway Department on this on other subdivisions, but how does the Town keep track of
that? I mean, aren’t we, I mean, maybe along the lines of Mr. Salvador’s comments, aren’t
we assuming that, you know, presuming that the Town will accept it, and then the
maintenance of the drywells.
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MR. NACE-The ultimate control is that there’s only one building permit allowed on this
whole parcel until the Town accepts the road, because until the Town accepts the road, those
other lots don’t have any frontage on a Town road.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right. Well, I guess I’m just thinking of what is the Town signing on to
in terms of maintenance requirements and also liability and how is that kept track of, and
what’s the assurance that it will be properly maintained?
MR. STEVES-How is it kept track of?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. STEVES-Every Town that is dedicated to the municipality I or another surveyor has to
locate and do a complete as built of all the structures, valves, hydrants, edge of pavement
outfalls, certified to Rick Missita with bearings and distances a description. We write the
description that the Town Counsel uses to create a deed for that road with all the drainage
easements or whatever that may be in place, and certified to them and to a title insurance
corporation. So that they know exactly where everything is and exactly what they’re getting
before they take acceptance of that road.
MR. VOLLARO-Chris, what you’re really trying to get at is a good point. How does the
Town provide maintenance, when do they know to maintain something?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. I mean, that’s part of the question.
MR. NACE-Talk to Rick, obviously, he’s the ultimate authority, but as far as I understand,
he has a schedule of the drainage structures, catch basins, drywells that need to be
maintained, and he runs those through periodically. I think catch basins and drywells are
vacuumed out, I think, once a year.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, I’ve seen them pump them out.
MR. HUNSINGER-There’s a big one near where I live, and, I mean, and I’ve walked over
the grate. It’s got to be eight feet deep, maybe, and it’s huge, and, you know, I mean, you get
leaves. You get pine needles. Snow and ice that cover it.
MR. STEVES-And that’s why we show every one that’s on the road to be accepted, that way
he has a record of where they are and when he accepted the road, and he can put it on his
schedule of maintenance.
MR. HUNSINGER-And I guess the other reason why I raised the question is, obviously, the
assumptions in the stormwater management report are that that will be properly maintained.
Because otherwise the stormwater management won’t properly work.
MR. NACE-Well, actually, there is, if I’m correct, and I’m pretty sure I am, there’s an
agreement between DEC and the Town that they will be maintained, because with this new
stormwater regulation, they require pre-treatment for any stormwater that is filtered in or
allowed to percolate into the ground.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. NACE-And that would, in an instance like the Town roads, that would require an extra
set of structures, a catch basin out at the road that would have a large sump and the ability
to collect debris, and then a separate drywell off the road for the infiltration. The Town says
we don’t want that many structures to maintain. We do a good job maintaining the drywells,
and they sat down with DEC and hammered out an agreement that it was okay with DEC
not to have the catch basins, just to use the drywells as long as the Town maintained them on
a regular basis.
MR. HUNSINGER-So that’s the other reason, part of where that comment came from.
MR. FORD-So there will not be easements conveying the road water out onto the property
between or behind the homes?
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. NACE-There’s only the easement for that one pipe that goes down the hill that, you
know, the Town needs to be able to get access to maintain.
MR. STEVES-All the rest of it is within the 50 foot right of way of that road that will be
dedicated to the Town.
MR. NACE-Correct.
MR. STEVES-So they would be within their ownership. The only thing they would be
outside of their ownership is the easement for that outfall pipe, emergency outfall pipe, and
they would still have maintenance over that via an easement.
MR. FORD-Would there be an alternative to that kind of outfall pipe?
MR. NACE-The only alternative would be just to not have it. Okay. Again, it’s an
emergency type of thing.
MR. FORD-Because we had one on our street, a very similar setup, it appears at any rate,
and that caused such a problem with excessive water in the back yards of a couple of the town
homes that eventually it was plugged and prevented the water from draining out there.
MR. STEVES-That was an actual drainage flow. This is an emergency. This isn’t going to be
flowing, only in a 500 year storm basically you’re going to see water coming out of that. If
you went to Rick Missita, your Highway Superintendent, and said, I want to take an
easement that I’m going to give you for an emergency access, for an emergency overflow, and
I’m going to put it just in your drywells, and then, 15, 20 years from now, they actually need,
because of a storm, they would like to put one in, now they have to come back to private
homeowners and try to obtain an easement to do so. So your Highway Superintendent would
like preventative maintenance now and have that in place prior to any need for it in the
future, then it’s more problematic.
MR. NACE-I think what you’re talking to, though, Tom, is an outfall that actually takes
drainage every time it rains. Okay. It’s just a catch basin.
MR. FORD-If the basin got high enough, it would take the excess out.
MR. NACE-This is just an emergency. It will probably, you know, in the next 10 years,
probably never see a drop of water.
MR. FORD-Thank you. I have some additional questions.
MR. VOLLARO-Sure, go right ahead.
MR. FORD-How about addressing the construction noise issue.
MR. STEVES-We have no objection to the seven to seven at all.
MR. FORD-Five days a week?
MR. STEVES-I would say six days a week.
MR. FORD-Six days a week.
MR. STEVES-Yes. Typically in the summer season, as everybody knows up here, isn’t the
longest season in the world. This isn’t a huge subdivision as far as heavy equipment for the
road construction, but, you know, you are limited from like April until November. So the
opportunity for most of these construction companies to work six day weeks is typical here.
So I would say seven to seven, Monday through Saturday. No work on Sundays.
MR. FORD-Okay, and what assurances do we have that the Essex Court is going to be
constructed in such a way that it would be pretty well assured that the Town would accept it?
MR. NACE-Well, I inspect it when it’s constructed, and sign off to the Town, and, obviously,
as I said before, if the Town doesn’t accept it, there are no lots here, other than one house. So
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
there’s a strong incentive for the contractor and the owner to comply with the Town
requirements.
MR. FORD-Thank you.
MR. VOLLARO-Anybody else?
MR. FORD-I have a few more points.
MR. VOLLARO-Go right ahead, Tom.
MR. FORD-And if you’ve covered these before, just refresh my memory, okay. There
appears to be a discrepancy between the project acreage to remain undeveloped.
MR. NACE-Staff is correct. I didn’t add, there are two parcels, and I only looked at the
acreage on one of them and didn’t add the other. There’s 11, a total.
MR. FORD-It actually is 11.25?
MR. NACE-It’s 11.25, correct. That’s my mistake.
MR. FORD-Thank you.
MR. STEVES-The four acre piece on the opposite side of the power lines is included in that.
MR. FORD-And how about the issue of excessive clearing and grading proposed for Lots 9
and 10?
MR. NACE-Well, that’s where there’s an old borrow pit. I think at one time there was a
trolley that ran through the back of this property as part of the Sherman Island dam
construction, and there’s a borrow pit right in the back of Lots Nine and Ten, and all we’re
doing is filling that in to, to make it, to restore more original conditions, and in fact that was
one of the comments originally was that we needed to do some grading back there to make it
more usable, and that’s what we’re doing.
MR. FORD-And how about the next item, the proposed location of the septic system on Lot
10 should be reconsidered, sharing a system with Lot 8 or 9 could be a possibility?
MR. NACE-We can’t share, okay. This is with a DOH realty subdivision, each lot has to
have their own sanitary facilities.
MR. FORD-How about the stormwater management report indicates rear roofs will drain to
the back yard, where septic tanks will be located.
MR. NACE-We’ve put a note on the drawings requiring that any roof leaders or downspouts
be directed away from the septic field areas, and that’s acceptable to C.T. Male.
MR. FORD-And the perforated pipe at the road has been addressed?
MR. NACE-The detail was incorrect. It wasn’t supposed to be a perforated pipe on the
detail. It was supposed to be showing the overflow lines, those 12 inch emergency overflows
that we discussed previously. That has been corrected.
MR. FORD-Thank you, and the minimum finished garage floor elevation of the homes should
be listed on the grading plan?
MR. NACE-That has been, just to show that the floor elevations are above the road.
MR. FORD-And the labeling will be consistent?
MR. NACE-Yes. I goofed. It’s been corrected.
MR. FORD-And the connection to gas and electric utilities on Corinth Road should be
shown.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. NACE-That was one of the remaining issues that C.T. Male had and they wanted us to
simply state that they’re available and that they’re within the road corridor.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, what they asked was a note should be added indicating the distance to
these utilities. That’s what they required.
MR. NACE-Yes, and that’s not on the drawings yet, but it will be put on.
MR. FORD-And Item Twenty-one, would you address that again, please. On Sheet S-4 the
proposed tree line is shown for each lot. This line should also be labeled as the work limit line.
MR. NACE-I’m not sure where the comment came from or why the comment was in C.T.
Male’s comments. We show, on the individual lots, show a proposed clearing line. We don’t
know what the house on that lot’s going to exactly look like, whether it’s going to have a
garage entry on the left or the right. So we don’t really know exactly what the clearing limits
should be, okay. So we try to show, so that we’re not pulling the wool over anybody’s eyes,
we try to show that there’s going to be clearing on the lot, but then we try to show what
might be a typical clearing or possible clearing limits, but we don’t want to show that as an
absolute clearing limit that somebody’s going to come back in the future and say, well, you
showed clearing limits here 30 feet away from the property line, and you’re clearing 20 feet
away from the property line. That’s really an individual house, building permit plan that’s
submitted with the building permit that shows how the house is going to be set on the lot and
where those clearing limits are actually going to be, depending on the house and depending on
how the person that owns, or that is going to own the house once it’s situated.
MR. VOLLARO-So long as they meet the setbacks, they can pretty much spin it around the
way they want.
MR. FORD-As long as the setbacks are maintained.
MR. NACE-Sure, exactly.
MR. STEVES-And you also have restrictive no cut zones on the back of the lots that have to
be adhered to.
MR. FORD-They must be adhered to.
MR. NACE-Right.
MR. HUNSINGER-And also along Corinth Road.
MR. NACE-Correct.
MR. VOLLARO-They have pretty much got no cut zones around the perimeter.
MR. NACE-All around.
MR. METIVIER-Can you just remind them to adhere to those?
MR. STEVES-Yes.
MR. FORD-That was my point.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s incumbent upon the owner, I would imagine, what’s in their deed.
MR. METIVIER-Well, no, their developer.
MR. HUNSINGER-And also, I mean, the point’s well taken. I mean, Haviland Road is a
classic example. There was some great natural buffers along the south side of Haviland Road,
and the homeowners took them out a couple of years ago, and, you know, now it’s just lawn,
and it really has detracted from that neighborhood.
MR. FORD-Some are re-planting.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. STEVES-We agree, and we will make that note. The one thing you have here is you
have horseshoed around by an entity of the Queensbury Land Conservancy which is going to
ensure that the 11 acres of it is not cleared, and then the additional buffer on the back of the
lots against the Conservancy, and you have another group there, instead of just being a
landowner, that is a group that is an absentee landowner, whether they will have some
oversight of this to make sure that it is adhered to as well.
MR. VOLLARO-One of the things we’ve got here, this is probably the first time I’ve seen a,
almost a conservation type development, it’s close now. It’s attractive. On this, I would like
to get, as part of the Final on this, a letter from Jim Meachem confirming the test pit data on
drawing S-3, the data taken by Charlie Maine on 11/03, just a letter from DOH saying, yes, I
was there. By the way, Tom, when DOH goes to look at a test pit, they take their own data,
I’m sure. They have to walk away with logs.
MR. NACE-Actually what happens is that Charlie and Jim.
MR. VOLLARO-Charlie calls the numbers out and Jim writes them down?
MR. NACE-Exactly. They both look at it. They kind of agree where the interfaces are, and
Charlie measures it and calls out the classification and Jim writes it down, and Charlie takes it
and types it up.
MR. VOLLARO-When we get test pit data and perc data on our drawings, it means that that
data resides at DOH, essentially, not just with Charlie Maine, but if the DOH guy has to go
away with a set of logs and say I was at such and such a subdivision. I looked at this and
these are the logs. That data must reside in DOH somewhere. So somebody like Jim
Meachem can say, yes, I was there, yes, we have the data.
MR. NACE-That’s correct.
MR. STEVES-The log that Charlie develops that is placed on the map is one that is concurred
with Jim Meachem on site. They’re the ones that, they establish it.
MR. NACE-He gets a copy of that.
MR. VOLLARO-Meachem does?
MR. NACE-Yes.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. So now the data resides both in Charlie Maine’s domain and
Meachem’s domain.
MR. NACE-Correct.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. So all I really want is a letter from DOH confirming that.
MR. NACE-I will request it.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. A couple of questions I have is on your Long Form submission Part
I. I just want to get some comment here. On Page Three, Number Five, the addition of the
slopes comes out to be about 40%. Now that 40% was used in calculating the density, right?
MR. NACE-You’re talking about Item Number Five?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes. Page Three, Number Five.
MR. NACE-Yes, it’s 60 plus 19, plus 21.
MR. STEVES-That’s 100%. Zero to ten is 60% of the property. Ten to fifteen is nineteen
percent, and greater than fifteen is twenty-one percent.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, but the greater than fifteen, there’s nineteen percent that’s, and
twenty-one is forty, and that forty percent over fifteen percent slope was used in the
calculation for density. That’s what I’m asking.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. STEVES-Greater than fifteen percent was used.
MR. NACE-Greater than fifteen percent was used.
MR. VOLLARO-All of these are greater than fifteen, or not?
MR. STEVES-No, fifteen percent slopes or greater is only twenty-one percent of the
property.
MR. VOLLARO-Fifteen or greater is only twenty-one percent. This is ten TO fifteen, fifteen
not included?
MR. NACE-Correct.
MR. STEVES-That’s correct.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. Then I’ll ask my question in a different way. The twenty-one
percent.
MR. STEVES-The calculation is based on twenty-one percent, that’s correct.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. That’s all I wanted to know. Now, on Five, on Page Five, let’s go to
Five of your Part I, and I think there’s a, on 17B, it says, is the site serviced by public
utilities, yes. If yes, will improvements be necessary to allow connections, and that’s blank,
yes or no. It should be filled in, probably yes.
MR. NACE-Yes. Correct.
MR. STEVES-We will have to tap into the existing line.
MR. VOLLARO-I know that’s just an oversight, Tom. I just want to get this form, make
sure that it’s right.
MR. NACE-Sure. While you’re on that same page, we ought to correct, in yours, on B-1-b.,
project acreage to be developed.
MR. VOLLARO-B-1-b, yes 19.
MR. NACE-It should be 16.25.
MR. VOLLARO-Ultimately.
MR. NACE-Both initially and ultimately. It should be 16.25, and C should be 11.25.
MR. VOLLARO-Project acreage to remain undeveloped should be 11.25.
MR. NACE-Correct, which is the Land Conservancy.
MR. VOLLARO-Which is the Land Conservancy piece.
MR. STEVES-We forgot to include that piece east of the power lines.
MR. VOLLARO-So are you going to resubmit Part I?
MR. NACE-I can if you want to, or you can just correct the one that you’re using for the
EAF.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes. As long as we’re correcting it, I’m happy with it. I just wanted to
make sure. Page Eight. I just had a question on that. I’m not sure what the answer is, but
you might be able to lead me to it. On Page Eight, under zoning and planning information,
does the proposed action involve a planning or zoning decision, the answer is, yes. If yes,
indicate the decision required, you’ve got subdivision. What about this resource management
plan? Does the QLC have a role in that, in the resource management plan? Do they have to
prepare anything that you know of?
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MR. NACE-Not that I’m aware of.
MR. VOLLARO-I just had a question mark for myself as to whether or not, being that they
were going to take over the property.
MR. STEVES-To be like a logging operation or something along those lines, if you got
involved with a large piece of wooded property, but no, my understanding is they’re not
required.
MR. VOLLARO-I didn’t know. I had a question, I put a question mark and I wanted to ask
you that question. I understand what you’re saying. Okay. Okay. We have a number of
points here. I’d like to take a few minutes. We’re just doing Preliminary tonight, much like
when we did Schermerhorn’s property up on, he came back for about 10 minutes.
MR. NACE-That’s fine by me.
MR. VOLLARO-And that’s what I’d like to do here. Have a plan that reflects all of which
we spoke here, the plan is up to date.
MR. SEGULJIC-Mr. Chairman, can I just ask one quick question?
MR. VOLLARO-Of course.
MR. SEGULJIC-There’s no lighting shown on the plan. I assume there’s no lighting on the
street there?
MR. NACE-That is correct.
MR. VOLLARO-Right. We said, when we did the Sketch Plan, we talked about this being
very, very similar to Quincy Lane, and I think you asked the question.
MR. SEGULJIC-I missed that meeting.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. We asked that question, and they said this would be just the same as
Quincy Lane is, and there was no lighting at Quincy, and they said there would be no lighting
here.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay.
MR. VOLLARO-So there’s no lighting, other than house lights.
MR. STEVES-You have post lights and stuff on the driveway, but if you drive down Quincy
Lane, we have almost a mirror image of this.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-I had a question on Lots 10 through 13. Those are the ones that back up
to the NiMo right of way, come closest to the NiMo right of way. In the past, on other
subdivisions, we have required them to post signs or to have an easement or a deed restriction
that they cannot dump clippings or yard waste specifically into the NiMo right of way.
MR. STEVES-Right. In this case they don’t own to the NiMo. There’s a 20 foot strip owned
by the QLC, but you’re wondering whether or not we should let them know that they’re also
close to the NiMo right of way?
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, my thought being, if I’m out doing my yard work, you know, I bag
up some, human nature being what it is, I don’t know specifically where my property line
ends and the Queensbury Land Conservancy Property begins.
MR. STEVES-We can put signs up.
MR. NACE-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. NACE-The same thing we did on Schermerhorn’s out on Sherman Avenue.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, exactly, and it’s really just Lots 10 through 13.
MR. STEVES-And I agree.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. STEVES-Good point.
MR. FORD-I have a question, if I may. This is for Chris. As the Chair of the PORC
Committee, I want to back up to this issue of street lights. Has that been considered in any of
the meetings, about what we as, or what our citizens are calling for or would like to see as far
as appropriate lighting of streets?
MR. HUNSINGER-I don’t think it’s come up in any discussions. Maybe in some public
comments, but certainly not in any comprehensive way yet.
MR. FORD-I hope that it will be addressed, because this would be an appropriate time to be
taking, being proactive about it.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, absolutely.
MR. GOETZ-I think I asked the question last time about the lighting.
MR. VOLLARO-Was that you?
MR. GOETZ-Yes, and the reason why is for safety. People who live in these cul de sacs, like I
happen to live in Hudson Pointe, and we’re able to do a lot of walking, bike riding. A lot of
children in there, and the children aren’t out late, but they’re out until eight, nine o’clock,
and at dusk in the summer or early fall. I think there’s a real safety problem if there isn’t any
kind of lighting.
MR. NACE-We’ve heard both sides of the coin, and you get people who vehemently argue
against it in a rural setting or a subdivision setting like this, that they don’t want that extra
light. They want the dark skies, so to speak.
MR. GOETZ-Well, from a business aspect, what’s the reason why you don’t want to put
lights in? I mean, you’re saying some people don’t like them. I can’t even conceive of that.
MR. NACE-That’s what we hear from talking to, some of the comments.
MR. STEVES-I don’t know if there’s specific lighting districts, too, within the Town that
would allow somebody to maintain or take over.
MR. NACE-Well, if you were doing that here, you would have to form a lighting district that
would get taxed for the lights, as you would in any residential subdivision, but, you know,
generally what we’ve heard is that people really don’t, in this kind of a setting, don’t want
that extra light.
MR. SEGULJIC-I would think if they want lights they’d put.
MR. VOLLARO-Post lights, yes.
MR. SEGULJIC-I think that’s the way to do it.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s the way we light up my little subdivision is post lights.
MR. SEGULJIC-I think it’s a good idea not having any street lighting.
MR. STEVES-I think if you look down through, we keep using Quincy Lane because this is
very similar except a little shorter road, is that I think every lot in there has a post light out
on the side of their driveway, too. I don’t think, there’s maybe one lot that does not have a
post light.
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MR. VOLLARO-Okay. If there are no other questions from the Board, maybe we ought to
enter, here, into a SEQRA, or should we do that just before Final, so that we’re happy with
that or do we know enough about this project now to feel comfortable with going into a
SEQRA? How do we feel about that?
MR. METIVIER-I think we could move forward.
MR. SEGULJIC-I just have to read the Kathy O’Brien letter.
MR. VOLLARO-Her letter? I think the last, I think the drawings as they presently exist, the
ones that we have, Tom, reflect what she’s asking for in terms of buffers around the property,
and then she ends up, in her last paragraph, saying that she didn’t think there’d be an impact
if it was done that way.
MR. SEGULJIC-I don’t have a problem with doing SEQRA.
MR. VOLLARO-I certainly don’t. Are you guys all ready for it?
MR. METIVIER-Sure.
MR. VOLLARO-Let’s do a Long Form, Tony.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 21-2005, Introduced by Anthony Metivier who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Thomas Ford:
WHEREAS, there is presently before the Planning Board an application for:
MICHAELS GROUP, and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning
Board action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No Federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is Unlisted in the Department of
Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental
Quality Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental
concern and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a
significant environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the
Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this
Board finds that the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby
authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-
significance or a negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 17 day of January, 2006, by the following vote:
th
AYES: Mr. Ford, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Goetz, Mr. Vollaro
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Steffan
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. I think we want to do a Preliminary here with all the conditions on
the Preliminary that go with the Final. So I’ve gotten some down, and I’ll go down mine and
if anybody else has some, we’ll have to put them in. One, we want to get a letter from the
Queensbury Land Conservancy indicating that their intent is to acquire this property. The
second one I have is a letter from Jim Meachem of the Department of Health , confirming test
pit data appearing on Drawing S-3, the data taken by C. Maine on 11/03/05. Drawing S-7
will show the effluent pump detail
MR. NACE-It already does, yes.
MR. VOLLARO-It already does. Okay.
MR. NACE-On what C.T. Male has reviewed.
MR. VOLLARO-It does on what C.T. Male has reviewed. Okay, and we will see that the next
time around?
MR. NACE-Absolutely.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. There’ll be, maybe this drawing carries it, maybe it doesn’t, but
additional test pits will be dug to a deeper depth to confirm adequate separation to
groundwater.
MR. NACE-They will be added. They’re not on the drawing yet. They will be added.
MR. VOLLARO-They will be added to the drawing. Okay. I guess it’s all of C.T. Male’s
Number Four, Number Eleven, Number Eighteen. Number Nineteen is out because we have
a letter from DEC on the New Karner butterfly. So it would be responding to C.T. Male’s
original letter dated January 12, Item Four, Item Eleven, and Item Eighteen.
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MR. NACE-Correct.
MR. STEVES-Hours of operation, Bob.
MR. VOLLARO-The hours of operation would be from seven to seven, six days a week, and I
don’t have anything else.
MR. HUNSINGER-Posting of the yard clippings on Lots 10 through 13.
MR. NACE-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Did you mention that the land must be transferred to the QLC prior to
the sale of any lot?
MR. VOLLARO-I had that in a copy of the QLC agreement, but that’s a good point, yes. We
should put that in, Chris.
MR. GOETZ-Is the QLC agreement going to mention also that their responsibility for the
maintenance?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, I have it here, maintenance, access, and I have parking, but it looks
like parking is not something that, I think I’d like to hear from them in their posture of what
they think they’d want to do with this property when they do acquire it. Parking should be
addressed, but maybe what the answer is there will be no parking, I don’t know.
MR. STEVES-I believe that’s what the intent is, but I’ll find out from them in their letter.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-So I guess the revised plans would address all of the comments from C.T.
Male? Has that already been established?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, they would address Four, Eleven, and Eighteen are not yet on those
plans.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. NACE-In essence the plans that you get submitted will address all of C.T. Male’s
comments.
MR. VOLLARO-All of C.T. Male’s comments.
MR. HUNSINGER-It was kind of obvious, but I wanted to make sure that it was obvious to
everybody.
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t have anything else. Does any other Board member have something
they want to put into this Preliminary so that when these folks come back, it’s almost a
stamp for us?
MR. GOETZ-I don’t think you can put it in the Preliminary, but I would like to see some sort
of attempt to contact Warren County about adjusting the sign out towards the road.
MR. STEVES-I’ll send a copy of the map and a letter and the minutes of this meeting, once
we have those.
MR. VOLLARO-To Bill Remington?
MR. STEVES-Actually it’ll be to George Van Dusen.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. STEVES-He’s the one that would actually take care of these.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. Just make a note of that. Now I’ve left the public hearing open, but
I think that if there’s nobody else that wants to discuss anything in the public hearing, I
think we’re going to close it, because I think we’re in pretty good shape at this point.
MR. HUNSINGER-How could we do SEQRA with the public hearing still open?
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t know.
MR. NACE-You can simply close the public hearing and have a motion to reconfirm your
SEQRA.
MR. VOLLARO-I’ll do that. I’ll close the public hearing and make a motion to reconfirm
SEQRA.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. I think that’s it. Does somebody want to make a motion?
MR. METIVIER-Why don’t you do it, since you have the items in front of you.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 21-2005 MICHAELS
GROUP, Introduced by Robert Vollaro who moved for its adoption, seconded by Anthony
Metivier:
WHEREAS, an application has been make to this board for the following:
Proposed 20-lot cluster subdivision, resulting in 18 residential lots [lots ranging in size from
0.41 acres to 2.97 acres] and 2 (two) areas of open space totaling 11-acres. Applicant proposes
approximately 860 linear feet of private drives. Subdivisions of land require review by the
Planning Board.
WHEREAS, the application was received 12/15/05; and
WHEREAS, the above is supported with all documentation, public comment, and
application materials in file of record; and
WHEREAS, pursuant to Chapter A183, Subdivision of Land, A183-10C, D of the Code of the
Town of Queensbury a public hearing was advertised and was held on 1/17/06; and
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has determined that the proposal complies with the
Subdivision application requirements of the Code of the Town Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has considered the environmental factors found in the Code
of the Town of Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been
considered and the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration; and/or if
application is a modification, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review
Act have been considered; and the proposed modification(s) do not result in any new or
significantly different environmental impacts, and, therefore, no further SEQRA review is
necessary; and
Preliminary [ A183-10 F(2) ( 3) ( 4) ]]
WHEREAS, the modifications to the preliminary plat are or are not acceptable; and [A -
183-10 F (2) ]
WHEREAS, the character and extent of any required improvement for which waivers may
have been requested and which, in its opinion, may be waived without jeopardy to the public
health, safety, morals and general welfare; and [ A183-10 F (2) ]
WHEREAS, approval of this preliminary plat shall not constitute approval of the
subdivision plat but rather, it shall be deemed an expression of approval of the design
submitted on the preliminary plat and as a guide to the preparation of the subdivision plat. [
A183-10 F (3) ]
WHEREAS, the developer shall sign and date a copy of the Planning Board's findings sheet,
and such approval shall be deemed to have occurred upon the return of such signed findings
sheet to the Planning Board. [ A183-10 F (4) ]
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that
We find the following: The application for Preliminary Stage is hereby Approved in
accordance with the resolution prepared by Staff with the following conditions:
1. A statement of agreement from the QLC that they are willing to accept or plan to
accept the 11.25 acres as open space for passive recreation. The QLC letter should
also address maintenance, access and parking, and to determine the allowed type of
passive recreation.
2. A letter from Mr. Jim Meachem of DOH confirming test pit data appearing on
Drawing S-3, data taken by Charles Maine on 11/3/05.
3. In accordance with C.T. Male Associates comments, the effluent pump for Lot 10
detail would be a new detail.
4. There should be a sign or signs indicating there be no dumping of garden material or
trash to the back of the no cut zone facing the Queensbury Land Conservancy
property, from Lots 10 to 13.
5. The hours of operation during construction will be six days a week, from Monday
through Saturday, times of 7 a.m. to 7 p.m.
6. Note on the plat that the property must be transferred to the Queensbury Land
Conservancy prior to the transfer of lots to future owners.
7. Also, C.T. Male Associates outstanding comments of their letter of January 12,
th
Items 4, 11 & 18 and to be on the new map. All issues will be addressed.
8. There will be a letter sent to Mr. George Van Dusen at Warren County DPW, with a
copy of the minutes of this meeting and a request that an intersection sign be placed
to the west of the intersection between Van Dusen and Corinth Roads.
60
(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
Duly adopted this 17th day of January, 2006, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Metivier, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Ford, Mr. Goetz, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Vollaro
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Steffan
MR. STEVES-Thank you.
MR. NACE-Procedurally, how soon do you want us back?
MR. VOLLARO-With Final?
MR. NACE-Yes. Most of this stuff we can get back to you within a couple of days.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, our next meeting is 1/24. I mean, we’ve got seven that night, on the
24.
th
MRS. BARDEN-This is a pretty long list. I would say have them get it in for the deadline,
February’s deadline is what we’re trying to do.
MR. NACE-The February deadline was today.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes.
MRS. BARDEN-March deadline.
MR. VOLLARO-You’re talking 2/15, to get into March.
MR. NACE-Could you put us on the first February meeting if we get stuff to you two weeks
ahead of time?
MR. VOLLARO-The first February meeting.
MR. METIVIER-March meeting. Right?
MR. NACE-February.
MR. VOLLARO-No, he’s talking February 21.
MR. NACE-This is, we’ve already submitted Final. This is just a clean up.
MR. VOLLARO-Why don’t we do it on February 21. Okay
st
MR. STEVES-And we’ll have everything to you two weeks prior to that.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s going to be a fast, we should be able to almost stamp this if
everything is correct, and hardly any conditions at all. I don’t think there will be any.
MRS. BARDEN-And when will those be in?
MR. NACE-Two weeks ahead of the meeting. Is that satisfactory?
MR. FORD-Make it the 10.
th
MRS. BARDEN-The 10 of February?
th
MR. NACE-The 10, sure.
th
MRS. BARDEN-Okay.
MR. VOLLARO-That basically will be coming in as just a new drawing, and some minor
notes.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
MR. STEVES-And some letters.
MR. NACE-Correct.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. All right.
MR. NACE-Do you need 15 sets of something like that?
MR. VOLLARO-If we’re going to have all new drawings, I think you’ve got to do it.
MR. NACE-Yes.
MR. VOLLARO-They become THE drawings that. You need 15 sets.
MR. NACE-Okay.
MR. STEVES-Thank you.
MR. NACE-Just trying to save a few trees.
MR. VOLLARO-I think we have to discuss a draft letter, and let me tell you first of all, have
you all read the draft that was prepared for The Great Escape? I know Chris Hunsinger has
read it for sure.
MR. METIVIER-Yes, I have read it.
MR. FORD-Yes, I have.
MR. VOLLARO-Really, first, I was asked to write this letter by Craig Brown and Marilyn
Ryba, and it was in response to Mr. Lemery asking for a discussion concerning the fact that
he wanted to talk about getting a CO for the bridge, for the pedestrian bridge.
MR. METIVIER-No, CO for the water park.
MR. VOLLARO-CO for the water park.
MR. HUNSINGER-For the hotel, yes.
MR. VOLLARO-And so I felt it was our responsibility to follow up in order to meet that
requirement of the Planning Board Findings Statement that was done in 2004, and I have
that statement with me. There are members of this Board who have never read that, or
weren’t here when these Findings Statements were made. So if the people who haven’t read
it, want it, I’ll read just one paragraph from the Findings Statement. Do you folks want to
hear that?
MR. FORD-Sure, go ahead.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. The meat of it is this, that we were talking about, the pedestrian
bridge, this is a set of Findings from the Planning Board. It says The Town of Queensbury
Planning Board as lead agency for SEQRA review of the Supplemental Generic
Environmental Impact Statement for the proposed Great Escape Hotel and Water Park, and
these Findings were adopted on May 20, 2004, and the operative paragraph here, I feel,
concerning this letter was, it says therefore, the Planning Board findings that The Great
Escape shall use its best efforts to complete construction of the pedestrian bridge prior to or
concurrently with opening of the Hotel Water Park resort. Best efforts shall mean that The
Great Escape must pursue construction of the pedestrian bridge vigorously, and provide the
Planning Board with clear evidence, on an ongoing basis, including written, quarterly reports,
that the bridge approval and construction process are proceeding with all appropriate speed,
taking into consideration any factors or development outside of The Great Escape’s control.
So long as The Great Escape has provided evidence to the Planning Board that it has met its
obligation to use its best efforts in pursuit of the timely completion of the pedestrian bridge,
there will be no delay in opening of the Hotel Water Park resort. If the Planning Board finds,
after consultation with Board, Staff, engineering consultants, and counsel, that Great Escape
has failed to use its best efforts in pursuit thereof, the Planning Board may suspend or
withhold the issuance of a Certificate of Occupancy for the hotel waterpark until the Planning
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(Queensbury Planning Board 01/17/06)
Board is satisfied that Great Escape has indeed used its best efforts to remove any remaining
obstacles to the completion of the pedestrian bridge. Now, when Mr. Lemery came in to talk
to Staff, he wanted a discussion item to talk about getting the CO, and Marilyn called me and
sent me an e-mail, as a matter of fact, and then called me on the phone and said, could you
pen a draft that goes back to Mr. Lemery concerning the subject, and what you’ve read is
what I penned as a draft, and it’s just that, it’s a draft. It can be changed. I have an e-mail
from Mr. Hunsinger who thinks that it should be changed, and I won’t go into what’s in the
e-mail, because I don’t think it’s appropriate, but what my intention was here, in order to try
to determine what their best efforts were, to talk to people that they’ve had to work with, and
I’ve checked this out. This is not just my idea, but I’ve checked it out like people like the
Department of Transportation, people like National Grid, Time Warner, Adelphia, and
Verizon do, indeed, put information like this out. This is not something I dreamed up. They
have a method of replying to these types of questions, and we’ve asked The Great Escape to
please go back and get information of that type from those five entities. I’ve gotten
information from one Board member, namely Thomas Ford, that says what he would like to
do, rather than have The Great Escape do that, he would rather have our Planning Staff do
that on behalf of the Planning Board, and he has reasons for that, and I’ll let him describe
those reasons, if he will.
MR. FORD-My feeling is if we’re going to try to make that determination of best effort, we
should be the ones making the contact rather than putting the onus on the one being
evaluated for best effort by these five entities.
MR. HUNSINGER-The Chairman commented earlier that I had provided a written
comment, and maybe my e-mail did come across a bit harsh, and when I read this letter, I
read it as if, how would I like to be the recipient of this letter, and in the Findings Statement
that you just read, one of the measures of best effort was to provide the Planning Board with
a quarterly report, which they have done, and at every quarterly report they give us a pretty
accurate description of where they are in the process, what the hurdles have been, what the
delays have been, and what they have attempted to do to resolve those, and I guess, you
know, my feeling was if there was any indication by anyone on this Board that there was any
reason to withhold a Certificate of Occupancy that it should have been brought up some time
ago. I mean, the last quarterly report until the most recent correspondence was in October.
It was distributed to the Planning Board in October. Nobody mentioned any concerns or,
you know, mentioned any thoughts that The Great Escape was acting in anything but their
best effort. So to have gone through this for literally two years and to now come back and
say, geez, Great Escape, we don’t think you did use best effort, even though you gave us an
accurate description of where you were every quarter, and not only do we not believe you,
but, you know, we want you to prove to us that you did, by going to these other agencies and
getting letters from them, I mean, I can only imagine, I’m not trying to be argumentative to
the Chairman, but one of the things I did mention in my e-mail, I have a couple of projects at
work that have been delayed by DOT by literally three years, you know, projects that were
on DOT’s list to be funded, and then when those projects, when the schedule was supposed to
begin, DOT said, well, we don’t have the money now and we’re going to delay this until the
next construction season. I mean, the agencies listed as being those that we would try to get
these letters from are the ones that have been responsible for the delays, and traditionally are
ones that are difficult to work with and cause delays in projects. It’s just my opinion, but I
just don’t see, I understand your intent in trying to document and prove that best effort was
made, but again, I think if there was a concern about that, it should have been raised before
the time when they want to open the Hotel.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, the only reason that Staff requested this letter is the fact that Lemery
was bringing up the issue of the CO now, and in order for us to say yes to the CO, to his
request, because they are getting a Temporary CO that’s being issued by Mr. Hatin, and of
course I’ve never understood the value of a Temporary CO. Dave Hatin tells me that the
reason they’re issuing this Temporary CO is to allow The Great Escape to perform training on
the Hotel site, and I said to him, you have a Temporary CO issued to the Quality Inn that is
on Aviation Road that’s owned by Mr. Bhatti and yet that’s functioning as a full, operating
hotel and motel, with people in it. So if we give The Great Escape a Temporary, it seems to
me that it kind of negates the whole idea of when we say you can get a CO or agree that they
made their best efforts on the CO.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, I don’t want to dominate the discussion here.
MR. VOLLARO-No, that’s okay, Chris.
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MR. HUNSINGER-There was very lengthy discussion on several occasions about how this
project would be phased and when the bridge is needed, and it was made very clear by this
Board that the Hotel could, construction on the Hotel could commence and the Hotel could
even open. The concern was that the pedestrian bridge be completed prior to the opening of
the Park in May, and according to the letter, the most recent letter from Lemery Greisler,
they’re still on schedule for that to occur. So I guess I’m confused as to why we’re going
through this exercise when all indication is that the bridge will be in place when the Park
opens in May, and really that should be the focus of our discussion in my mind. Not whether
or not a, I mean, maybe they’ve asked for a permanent CO. I think that’s a pretty easy
answer, no. Because they haven’t met the requirement to have the pedestrian bridge
installed. Is a Temporary CO reasonable? I think it’s reasonable, and then the permanent
one just not be issued until the bridge is completed.
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t think that’s the case. I think they’re saying so long as they’ve
demonstrated that they have made a best effort, and the Hotel opens in May, they want a CO
for that, even if the bridge is not completed. If they’ve strived and made a best effort to put
that bridge on schedule, I mean, I have a schedule home dated March 30, 2004 which shows
the coincident completion of the bridge and the Hotel in June of 2005.
MR. HUNSINGER-I remember that. I remember that well.
MR. VOLLARO-Now, from the little I know, we’re sitting here and it’s January, February,
March, April, May, I don’t see how that pedestrian bridge is going to be done in that time.
Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe they’ll make May, but if they don’t, they’re still saying, hey, wait
a second, we made our best efforts, we missed, but our best efforts said, we’re entitled to the
CO, and I think they are, if they can demonstrate to me and to the rest of the Board that
they’ve made a best effort. This particular piece of paper is just put out as a draft, in my way
of trying to determine that. I’ve read all, each and every one of their quarterlies, and most of
their quarterlies are very self-serving.
MR. HUNSINGER-Sure, of course they are.
MR. VOLLARO-We’re doing very well and we’re working very hard, you know, and I
understand why they would do that, but I don’t have any way to confirm that, and I guess
I’m frustrated because I don’t. I have no way to ascertain best efforts, other than talking to
people who work with The Great Escape in terms of getting the bridge going, and giving me
the comfort feeling that says, yes, they did the best they could, and that’s the whole basis of
this letter, and the fact that it’s a draft, it hasn’t gone out to John Lemery or his law firm at
all. It’s here as a straw man, basically, for this Board to think about and maybe somebody
else to write a letter, because I was asked to write this. I mean, this isn’t just come out one
day and Bob sat down and decided to write this letter. I got a call from Marilyn that said we
want you to pen something to him.
MR. SEGULJIC-Maybe I’m missing something, but when I look on the schedule on the last
page of Lemery’s letter, the only two utilities they’re waiting on are National Grid, which is
supposed to start work January, begin raising the services January 23, and Verizon which is
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beginning conduit installation.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s on his last quarterly report.
MR. SEGULJIC-So all of that should be occurring very soon, right? The others are all taken
care of, as I read it.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, yes, but see all I’m trying to do here, I’m not trying to, Tom, to
institute a schedule, but I’m trying to get this Board, in accordance with the Findings
Statement, to have the comfort feeling, every member, that they’ve made their best effort,
and this is all I want to do, but I don’t know how to do that. How do you know? How can
you tell me, without even talking to somebody that they work with, that they’ve made a best
effort? I don’t know how to do that, and that was in our Findings Statement. That’s what
we asked. So, if somebody’s got a better idea.
MR. SEGULJIC-Well, I guess one of the things, it says National Grid to begin raising its
services on January 23. Is that going to happen that week? Does that happen that week.
rd
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MR. VOLLARO-Yes, but that’s a scheduling issue, Tom. That’s really an issue that says, if
it doesn’t happen that week, I’ll happen the week after or the week after or the week after.
This may not have anything to do with The Great Escape’s best effort at all. The Vice
Chairman has a point that some of these organizations can drag their feet and cause chaos,
but I just want to know, in their view, and maybe this is very hard to extract from an
organization like that, but in their view, has The Great Escape done their best effort to get
this bridge done on time, and I can’t say it any more than that. If somebody has a better way
of determining that, well, let them speak now. I’ll try to perhaps, in deference here to the
Vice Chairman, here, I would rather, I might try to soften this some, but if he’s got a better
idea as to how we do this best effort analysis, I’d certainly listen.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, again, the Findings Statement defines part of the definition of best
effort is by providing the Planning Board with clear evidence on an ongoing basis including
written, quarterly progress reports, which they have done.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, but I’ve read them all, you know, Chris, and they’re very self-serving
documents. They really are.
MR. HUNSINGER-I realize and appreciate that.
MR. FORD-Perhaps the time to have challenged that would have been when they were
presented, rather than trying to retroact and retrofit it.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, that’s what I was sort of arguing.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s absolutely true.
MR. FORD-But I know you were asked to write a letter. So you wrote a letter.
MR. VOLLARO-I wrote a letter.
MR. HUNSINGER-I mean, I understand your concern. The concern is, was to prohibit the
lodge from getting their Certificate of Occupancy, the Park from opening, without the bridge
being completed.
MR. VOLLARO-Because there’s a big safety issue there.
MR. HUNSINGER-It’s huge, and we have all gone on record saying that that was our
primary concern is that the Park not open before the bridge is constructed, and I think if, you
know, if we were to draft a letter back saying that is our primary concern and to that end we
don’t feel comfortable with a permanent Certificate of Occupancy until the bridge is
constructed, you know, maybe that’s the direction we take with the letter.
MR. VOLLARO-See, I like that approach, except that I know Lemery will pick that apart
based on this Paragraph Six.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, then let’s have Counsel draft the letter, if the concern is that it
would be a legal challenge.
MR. VOLLARO-I can get back to Marilyn. Marilyn won’t be in this week, I don’t believe.
MRS. BARDEN-I think she’s in tomorrow.
MR. VOLLARO-She’s in tomorrow? Okay.
MR. HUNSINGER-Has Counsel seen this letter?
MRS. BARDEN-I don’t know, Chris.
MR. VOLLARO-No, I don’t think so. I think that Craig took it and put his little cover on it
said, let the Planning Board take a look at the draft.
MR. HUNSINGER-It is copied to Town Counsel. Okay.
MR. VOLLARO-I didn’t see that.
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MR. HUNSINGER-On Craig’s memo, or I’m sorry, Marilyn’s memo.
MR. VOLLARO-I’ve got Craig Brown, attached herewith.
MR. HUNSINGER-I think this was included in our Board package, perhaps, or it came in a
separate mailing. There’s a memo from Marilyn to the Planning Board and Town Counsel,
Great Escape Pedestrian Bridge Quarterly Status Report dated January 10.
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MR. VOLLARO-That’s the latest one.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. VOLLARO-We just got.
MRS. BARDEN-Yes, I just gave you that tonight.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, that went to Counsel. A copy of this letter that I drafted.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, no, that’s not what I was asking. I was asking if the letter from Mr.
Lemery was shared with Counsel.
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t know the answer to that. I don’t know whether Marilyn sent that to
him or not.
MR. FORD-May I just address this? You’ve given me an interesting and very helpful
historical perspective that I wasn’t privy to prior to tonight, because I didn’t sit in on all of
those quarterly reports. It seems to me that the issue, the focus of the issue has been
sharpened. We do not want that permanent CO to be issued until that bridge is completed. I
think that’s where we should focus our effort, rather than trying to determine the value of
their efforts over the last X number of years.
MR. VOLLARO-Let me go back in history a little. That was this Board’s opinion, and I
have my draft to Chris Round, as to how I wanted the words to read in this paragraph, and
what I wrote at that time, and I have it home, is exactly what you said, that a Certificate of
Occupancy would not be issued for the Hotel Water Park until such time as the pedestrian
bridge was in place and operating. Those are my words, and in discussions back and forth, we
got to this best effort thing, but when Chris asked for comments on, Chris Round, that is,
asked for comments on the Findings Statement as they were being prepared, my comment,
and this Board I think all agreed at that time, the members that were on it, all agreed with
what Chris Hunsinger is now saying, that we would not issue a CO to the Water Park until
such time as the bridge was in place and operating for safety reasons. We always talked
about the safety issue, people jumping across Route 9 in a hurry. There’ll be no lights there
because the lights are being moved to the Glen Lake Road, but I think that what we
gravitated down to was this best effort thing as a negotiation with Lemery and company.
That’s my analysis of what happened. Now, we never had, for example, these quarterly
reports just come from Marilyn to us. We never sat in. There was no, there’s no sitting in on
the quarterly reports. They come as a piece of paper. They come in an envelope. I get tons
of mail. I’ve got stacks of paper, and I stand accused, I guess, for not commenting as a Board
member on each and every one of them as to the validity of that particular one, and I didn’t
do that, but, you know, I didn’t know that, I read it and I said, well, okay, I’ve got them
home, every one of them, and this will be the last one, but I said to myself, none of these
things prove to me that they’ve given a best effort. So, that’s where I am.
MR. METIVIER-I’m just going to go on the record and just say one thing. In the last five or
so years, we’ve really made things difficult for The Great Escape, and I don’t think at this
point we should start playing hardball with them. I understand your point and the safety
issues, but you have to understand, too, that The Great Escape isn’t going to open up this
Spring and not have lights or traffic, you know, they have a lot at stake, too.
MR. VOLLARO-Sure they do.
MR. METIVIER-So let’s, for once, I truly feel they’ve done what they’ve needed to do.
They’ve cooperated with us. They’ve given us the quarterly reports, and however you want
to read it or look into it or say, all right, this is self-gratifying to them, so be it, but at the
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same time, they’ve done what we asked them to do. The project is moving forward. They
want to open this Park. Let’s, for once, give them the benefit of the doubt. Not to say that,
you know, we have to just embrace it with open arms, and say, you know what, you didn’t
get the bridge up, but that’s okay, but at the same time, don’t make it difficult for them.
They’ve really done everything we’ve asked them to do. You have to figure there’s a new guy
in there. John Collins is gone. You don’t know what the hell is going on with him and he
doesn’t know what’s going on with us. They’re still on target. They might be delayed a few
weeks. So be it. You’ve got to realize, that this new guy is in place. So just let’s for once
show them that we, too, can work with them.
MR. VOLLARO-Tony, that’s an approach. My problem is I have a Findings Statement that
keeps standing in my way. I would love to be able to say, look, when you get done, you get
done.
MR. METIVIER-And I’m not saying that, but you have to understand, I mean, they are
scheduled to open up this Park next week. They have parties planned, and they have events
planned.
MR. VOLLARO-They’re going to open it up, without us. They have a Temporary CO to do
it.
MR. SALVADOR-May I, sir?
MR. VOLLARO-John, you want to approach? You can if you want.
MR. SALVADOR-Not too long, please. It’s getting late. There is no provision in the law to
issue a Temporary CO, period.
MR. VOLLARO-I checked with Dave Hatin on that, and that’s all I can do.
MR. SALVADOR-I’m sure.
MR. VOLLARO-And Dave Hatin is telling me there is a provision in the law for Temporary
CO’s.
MR. SALVADOR-Well, then, have you seen it?
MR. VOLLARO-No, I have not, sir.
MR. SALVADOR-The Water Park is a temporary residence with a little recreation pool on
the side. I used to run one of these, okay. I know the procedure for getting a permit from the
New York State Department of Health, to modify, build, whatever, a temporary residence,
okay. It requires filing the drawings, getting them approved, and completing the project as
designed and then getting a CO or a permit to operate the residence from the Health
Department. No provision for a temporary permit, absolutely none. Now, Mr. Hatin, and I
went through this with the Quality Inn. It took me three months to get to the bottom of the
story, okay. The Health Department defers, providing this Town enforces the Health
Department regulations, with regard to the construction of that temporary residence, okay,
they defer to Mr. Hatin. I would ask Mr. Hatin to show you where in the law there is a
provision for him to issue a Temporary CO. I never heard of such a thing. What’s the
definition of temporary? How much has to be complete or not complete? The Quality Inn,
the stairways didn’t have the railings on them, and he issued a Temporary CO in a lodging
facility. That’s incredible. That’s incredible. That’s the problem. The project has to be
completed, as designed, or authorized changes on the table, okay, certified, and then the CO
can be issued. That gives them the privilege to operate a temporary residence. That’s what
they are under New York State law. It goes to taxation. It goes to health, it goes to
everything they do. Their employees, handicapped accessible, everything. Now we have
taken on a tremendous burden from the Health Department, okay, I mean, to inspect these
facilities, I know what’s involved in getting a temporary residence permit. It’s the water, it’s
the laundry, it’s the toilets, it’s everything, including your employees, okay, including the
employees. Now let me just say a few words about the bridge. Do we understand the scope of
a pedestrian bridge that they’re building? Do we have the scope of the project in hand?
MR. VOLLARO-No, I don’t. I mean, I couldn’t take the test and give you answers on that.
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MR. SALVADOR-I asked Mr. Hatin a couple of weeks ago when I saw them working over
the on a project, I said have we issued a building permit for the pedestrian bridge? He said,
we don’t permit bridges. That’s absolutely right. We don’t. The Town does not permit
bridges, as defined in Highway law, a bridge across a road, okay. This is not a roadway
bridge. This is a pedestrian bridge. It’s not to be likened to a DOT bridge which they, DOT
issues permits, does the inspection, everything on bridges, highway bridges, no question about
it. We’re not involved. Okay. This is a different animal. This is a pedestrian bridge. I have
no idea. I’m waiting to see how are they going to handle handicap access. It’s got to be
barrier free. Don’t we want that in our Town. Isn’t that a part of the scope? I don’t know
how they’re going to do it. I have no idea how they’re going to do it. Has anybody seen
drawings that they’re going to do that? Now we haven’t permitted it. Who’s going to issue
the CO for it?
MR. VOLLARO-Well, you know, as far as this Board is concerned, we’re trying to, for me,
what I need to know, as a Board member, is that a CO has been issued. How it got issued,
just somebody has got to tell me, yes, there is a Certificate of Occupancy for this Hotel.
MR. SALVADOR-Yes, but they’re telling you a Temporary Certificate of Occupancy. Are
you going to accept that? I mean, a Temporary, maybe they’re just allowed to use the foyer.
I don’t know.
MR. VOLLARO-Dave told me so long as the lights, the electricity, lighting, plumbing, right
down to whether or not there was a laundry facility running and all of that. So long as he was
satisfied that the building was safe to operate, in terms of all the things, water, that he could
issue a Temporary CO. Hey, you know, I wasn’t going to argue with him because I don’t
know enough about the subject, I really don’t.
MR. SALVADOR-Well, it’s not to be likened to a residential dwelling, okay. A hotel, a
complex situation like that, involves water treatment, all of that stuff. Those are the things
that the Health Department regulates. Okay. Those are the things you have to demonstrate
are working. I don’t think we care anything about a swimming pool in somebody’s back yard
that the disinfectant is working right, when it comes to residential, and we don’t do
commercial. The Health Department does. The Health Department does that, on an annual
basis.
MR. VOLLARO-This is almost like a seminar’s worth of stuff.
MR. SALVADOR-It’s complex, I understand. It’s complex, but we have to begin to
recognize that that Hotel, first and foremost, is within, under New York State law, a
temporary residence, and there’s a specification for what you have to do to qualify to get a
permit to operate.
MR. VOLLARO-John, I understand all that. I think I understand all that. I’m not sure.
What our concern was, as a Planning Board, when we did the Findings Statement and when
Chris Round did these statements, our fundamental concern here was safety.
MR. SALVADOR-I understand. It’s a valid concern.
MR. VOLLARO-And we said, without the bridge, we didn’t want to give a CO to the Water
Park or the Hotel. The Great Escape negotiated with us via Lemery and company, and it got
watered down to the thing that’s called best efforts. I know, what I wrote to Chris Round
was exactly what Mr. Hunsinger has said he would like, and I think Tony as well, that the
bridge should be completed coincident with the operation of the Hotel. Then they get a full
CO and everything would be fine, but I think what Lemery is saying he asked Marilyn Ryba
for a discussion with this Board talking about the issuance of a Certificate of Occupancy now.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, even if we were to do that, I’m not sure how accurate this is, but in
the October 25 memo that Marilyn sent to us with the quarterly report, she says, and I
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quote, the Planning Board does have the discretion to suspend or withhold a Certificate of
Occupancy for the Hotel and Water Park if it decides efforts have not been made in good
faith, and I guess I’m emphasizing suspend or withhold. So what that’s telling me is, this
Temporary CO, which apparently is not really legal.
MR. SALVADOR-No foundation for it, I would say.
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MR. HUNSINGER-So it’s really a Certificate of Occupancy. Let’s just assume that it is a
real Certificate of Occupancy. We, as the Planning Board, could decide to suspend that if we
felt that they didn’t make best efforts.
MR. SALVADOR-That’s putting a hell of a burden on you.
MR. HUNSINGER-It is, but the record has also been very clear that, you know, our concern
is the Park opening, well, not just the Park opening, but the Hotel opening and the Park
being open at the same time, without the pedestrian bridge.
MR. VOLLARO-Right.
MR. HUNSINGER-It’s not an either/or. It’s both at the same time. So, you know, when it
comes time for the Park to open in May, and that bridge isn’t built, I think there’s certainly
plenty of ground for us to say, suspend the Certificate of Occupancy for the Hotel.
MR. SALVADOR-Well, I can tell you from my experience in this field.
MR. HUNSINGER-I’m not saying it will be easy.
MR. SALVADOR-I would see no problem in completing that bridge, and I don’t care what
the scope is, it may take all the horses and all the king’s men, but it would not be impossible
to complete a bridge across that road by May, absolutely not.
MR. HUNSINGER-I don’t think so, either. Look how fast the bridge went up on Quaker
Road, the bike trail bridge.
MR. SALVADOR-But you’ve got to see this, as Mr. Vollaro says, you’ve got to see this in a
plan. What are the elements? What’s the scope, who’s doing what when? What if they’re
faced with a strike? I don’t know.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, that would be beyond their control. The difference in the bridge going
across Quaker was that was a pre-constructed three piece bridge, if you remember.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, it was, yes, they brought it in by crane, and just lowered it down
into place.
MR. VOLLARO-My understanding is that this bridge is going to be built on site, steel by
steel.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. SALVADOR-So fabricated.
MR. VOLLARO-It’s going to be fabricated here.
MR. SALVADOR-And then lifted in place.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes.
MR. SALVADOR-Not unusual.
MR. VOLLARO-Not unusual.
MR. FORD-And not impossible.
MR. VOLLARO-Not impossible.
MR. SALVADOR-It’s not unusual.
MR. METIVIER-Well, Bob, I think you need to take the approach, it’s now the middle of
January, that you have a letter drafted to Lemery indicating that we understand that they’re
currently operating under a Temporary CO, all fine and dandy, but they have to understand
that by the opening of the Park in May, that bridge needs to be completed or, you know, you
have the authority, as Planning Board or Planning Department or whatever to withdraw
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that Temporary CO if you so choose, or we so choose, or something, and get that out to him
now so he knows that he has February, March, April, you know, and May to get this stuff
done.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, I’ll only make a draft, because I need a draft approved by members of
the Board. I won’t send anything to anybody unless this Board approves.
MR. METIVIER-Well, you have to also send it to Counsel for them to verify before it goes
out.
MR. VOLLARO-So far it’s just a draft. We’ve picked up a lot of information tonight. I
think if we send that letter, and I think you’re right because I think it’s what we want, we’ll
get repercussions back from them saying that, wait a second, we made our best efforts. Our
best efforts weren’t good enough. The bridge isn’t ready. You owe us a CO.
MR. METIVIER-We don’t owe them anything, but we can work with them.
MR. HUNSINGER-They aren’t saying in their latest letter that they can’t meet that.
They’re saying that they can. I think we take them at their face value and we call their bluff
and say, hey, you haven’t given us any indication in your latest correspondence that you
can’t meet that requirement and we expect you to meet that requirement.
MR. VOLLARO-And, you know what, from my past experience in my past life, when I got
that schedule in March 30, 2004, the letters that come to us, these completion reports or these
progress reports ought to have a scheduled tied to them that shows where they’re delinquent
and why. Words don’t cut it. They really don’t. What I’d like to see, you’re probably right.
This is the schedule as we see it now. Tell us what it is, and tell us when you’re going to be,
the same schedule you gave us before, exactly the same, elongate it out to the present
months, tell us when the bridge is going to be built. Do it, the people that write those
schedules are basically the LA Group. That’s who’s projecting this operation.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. SALVADOR-And I will FOIL from Mr. Hatin his authority to issue a Temporary CO
for anything. I would like to see where that’s authorized.
MR. VOLLARO-I think you’re entitled to do whatever you want to do.
MR. SALVADOR-Yes, I can do that.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s strictly between you and Mr. Hatin.
MR. SALVADOR-Right.
MR. HUNSINGER-I mean, they’re saying in this most recent quarterly report that in May
of 2006, construction of bridge, decking and ramps.
MR. VOLLARO-Will be complete.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. So we’re saying, okay, you say you’re going to do it in May. We’re
just saying you’ve got to do it by May 13 or whatever the date is that they’re going to open.
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MR. VOLLARO-In March of 2004 they said we’ll be done in June. That’s the validity of the
schedule. I’ve got to tell you, Chris, in my past life, if I was this late, I’d be on the street.
That’s just the way it is.
MR. GOETZ-I understand your concerns, Bob, but I also understand where Chris and Tony
are coming from, and essentially what they’re doing is they’re saying, okay, you’ve got this
Temporary whatever, but it’s not going to happen when it comes for a permanent thing if you
aren’t ready as you say. It’s putting the pressure on them to perform, and it’s reminding
them that we’re looking, and I think that’s, will do it in a very efficient way.
MR. SALVADOR-You could exercise your right to nullify, withdraw, whatever you do, the
Temporary CO in May if you’re not satisfied that the bridge is open. That’s a right you have.
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MR. VOLLARO-I don’t think so, in the way the Findings Statement is written.
MR. HUNSINGER-Marilyn’s memo said that. That’s why I said, I don’t know how accurate
that is, but she did say that in her memo.
MR. SALVADOR-Fall back on that.
MR. VOLLARO-I’m not sure that she was reading the Findings Statement when she wrote
that letter. I don’t know.
MR. FORD-As an accompanying issue here, based upon what someone had indicated earlier,
relative to the plan, is it not in the purview of this Board to review the plan for that
pedestrian bridge?
MR. HUNSINGER-I think we did.
MR. METIVIER-We did actually do that.
MR. HUNSINGER-They came before us for site plan review.
MR. METIVIER-Right down to the color, to the sign on it, lighting, everything, and it’s
unfortunate. You made the comment, has anybody seen the bridge, and, yes, we have seen
the bridge.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, we saw the plans.
MR. METIVIER-We just can’t recall what the ramps are, and you’re absolutely right, what’s
the handicapped access. Obviously there has to be some, but I don’t know if it’s elevated or if
it’s ramped. I just don’t remember.
MR. HUNSINGER-I think there was a switch back of ramps.
MR. METIVIER-I wish it was more helpful and we could tell you what the hell is going on
with it, but we just can’t.
MR. FORD-Can’t commit everything to memory.
MR. METIVIER-Well, I try.
MR. VOLLARO-So in order to wrap this up at a reasonable hour, you want me to try to draft
a second piece here. Well, Chris, do you want to take a crack at it?
MR. HUNSINGER-That’ll teach me for speaking.
MR. VOLLARO-And you have a copy of the Findings Statement home?
MR. HUNSINGER-I do, I have one right here.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. Just read that first and then write your piece.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. Okay.
MR. VOLLARO-So that it fits this, because this is what we said we wanted. I don’t know if
we can back away from that or not.
MR. HUNSINGER-I don’t think we can either.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. John, you said you wanted to have something else?
MR. SALVADOR-Yes, a couple of things. You opened the meeting tonight with giving some
ground rules.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, I’m trying to limit the amount of public input when it’s just rambling
on. Five minutes is what I’m giving people here.
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MR. SALVADOR-Yes. I would like to suggest a couple of things. Number One, that the
public hearing be left open until you’re ready to vote. Until you’re ready to vote, leave the
public hearing open.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, that’s what I tried to do tonight, and Chris pointed out, did we do a
SEQRA when the public hearing was closed.
MR. SALVADOR-Well, my point is this. During your deliberations and the give and take
back and forth, and the questions you ask, the project can take on an altogether different
light. Concessions by the applicant, input by Staff, questions that you have. All of a sudden,
whoa, what have we got here? You’ve got something else, and if the public is cut off from
coming back in to address what they think is a concern that has come as a result of your
deliberations, they’re cut off. There’s no rebuttal, is what I’m saying, okay. You allow the
applicant to come back and rebut, but you don’t allow the public to.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, I did say there’d be a follow-up if the public came back with a piece of
information that was different than what they already said.
MR. SALVADOR-Yes, all right.
MR. VOLLARO-But I tend to agree with you. I’d like to keep the public hearing open until
we go to vote, and then close it and then vote. Is there a prohibition to that?
MR. METIVIER-Just the SEQRA. We can’t do SEQRA until you close the public hearing.
MR. SALVADOR-Then do the SEQRA just before you vote.
MR. METIVIER-That is typically what we do in most of those instances.
MR. FORD-Close the public hearing, go to SEQRA, and vote.
MR. METIVIER-Okay, and we typically have done that. I think tonight in one aspect we
did jump ahead to do a SEQRA.
MR. SALVADOR-Good. That’s that.
MR. VOLLARO-I find this book very good. I’ve used it a lot. I’m going to look and check
that out when I get home.
MR. HUNSINGER-Usually you get a feel for the Board if they want to move forward before
you close the public hearing, and if you suspect that the Board wants to table it, we leave the
public hearing open.
MR. SALVADOR-Okay. The other thing, the other point I’d like to make is that before you
open the public hearing, you have to understand, the public doesn’t have the benefit of the
project packet that you have. Unless they take the trouble to come here and FOIL
everything, that sort of thing, not to say that the Staff is not cooperative in that respect, but
it does take time, it does cost money, that sort of thing. So they tend not, they come here and
they’re listening, what is this project, and so you open it up and the applicant makes a few
comments, and I think maybe you should deliberate with the applicant to frame the project
so the public hears what is this project all about, and then they can more intelligently present
their comments. The other thing that would facilitate the whole process is that the written
comments be read before the public comments. This way, if someone has very professionally
put forth an argument, okay, why should we waste our time trying to come up and articulate
the same argument? We could just come to the phone quickly and say, I second the motion.
It’s over with, but all too often that comes at the end and maybe it’s diffused by what’s been
going on ahead of time, and these comments that are written, okay, are coming from people
who, you know who they are, they’re working in the industry. They know their business.
They know the Codes, this sort of thing, and I think they carry a lot of weight, and it would
be good to hear those first before the public comments. I try to prepare for the meeting. I try
to prepare for it. A lot of people don’t, but if you want to have a public hearing meaningful,
then it’s got to be laid out, otherwise people are going to go away.
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MR. VOLLARO-Well, you notice tonight, I don’t very often call for the notes, Staff notes to
be read. My assumption there is that all Planning Board members have read the notes. So
when you read them to us, I say to myself, I’ve already read this. I know what it says.
MRS. BARDEN-I think it’s mostly for the benefit of the public.
MR. VOLLARO-It is, but the public isn’t able to connect to easily to those Staff notes,
because they’re very specific, and you have to have looked at drawings to understand what
your Staff notes are saying. They’re pretty much detached from those Staff notes. What
John is saying here is that we’ve got to try to deliberate in a fashion that brings them in to
what we’re talking about. Not an easy thing to do.
MR. SALVADOR-The ZBA does read Staff notes in the project.
MR. VOLLARO-The Secretary reads them in in the ZBA meeting. I noticed that. He
doesn’t have you read them, Susan.
MRS. BARDEN-No, the Secretary does, and all public comment.
MR. FORD-I don’t think the public will be disenfranchised if we get their input early on
before our deliberations, but not close the public hearing until we go to SEQRA. It will still
be open, so they can rejoin, rebut, add to, whatever, just not close it off.
MR. SALVADOR-I don’t want to abuse the privilege. Thank you very much.
MR. VOLLARO-Thank you. We’ll adjourn the meeting.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Robert Vollaro, Chairman
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