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2007-01-16 SP MTG2 69 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 01-16-2007 MTG. #2 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. #2 January 16, 2007 RES. 54 6:30 p.m. TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR COUNCILMAN RICHARD SANFORD COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER TOWN OFFICIALS ACCOUNTANT JOANNE WATKINS SR. PLANNER STU BAKER TOWN COUNSEL MARK NOORDSY DISCUSSION: INSURANCE PROCUREMENT Board reviewed e-mail from Town Counsel regarding procedures for setting up an executive session. An executive session may be conducted upon the majority vote of the Board after a motion has been made identifying the general area of the subject to be considered. Also noted there is no law that requires that an agenda be prepared to follow. Town Counsel Noordsy-The norm that I have observed is that agendas are prepared. Supervisor Stec-That has been our practice for seven years. Councilman Sanford-upon the request of two board members that the Supervisor shall within a ten day period of time call a meeting. INSURANCE PROCUREMENT Councilman Sanford-Reviewed for the Board the recent health insurance and property and casualty insurance acquisitions. Re: Health Insurance-I received from you an e-mail a testimonial speaking on behalf of Mr. Weber, I got that and wrote you back a letter and asked you questions and I asked for your response and never responded to me and yet recently through this exchange of communications you have gone on record in writing stating things such as you are willing to do things for the Board within reason. My question to you does that include replying to my e-mail messages. Ms. Watkins, well to be honest I was actually afraid to write back because I was afraid of all the e-mails that would go back and forth from it and really in the end did it really matter? Councilman Sanford-Yea, it did. In terms of your supporting letter (Ms. Watkins) and Connie’s my question was did Dan ask you to support these people? Ms. Watkins-No Councilman Sanford-Was this something that you just felt that on your own admission that you did not have any knowledge really about any of these things you just felt compelled to write me a letter supporting these people? Ms. Watkins-Yes. I was supporting Capital Financial, because they helped us…Councilman Boor-Speaking to Ms. Watkins, noted that the Board was negotiating we ultimately saved a lot of money we did not get rid of John Weber who you have a lot of respect for and thinks does a great job but we saved the taxpayers a lot of money, parenthetically you were working against us and you were acting in the political arena when you were writing these letters of support and these letters were going back to John Weber via Dan Stec and what was happening is you were creating an atmosphere where the negotiating process was being skewed and it made it very difficult. You should not have been in that process you should have been doing the job of bookkeeping accounting not being an advocate opposed to what the Board was trying to achieve and that was to reduce costs. Ms. Watkins- I understand that I just wanted you to know what they have been doing for us that was all. They do a lot that we do not even see, the retirees call them directly I know that they have helped on a lot of big claims. Supervisor Stec-Noted that he did not give Mr. Weber any letters. Councilman Sanford-Asked if Ms. Watkins would like this discussion held in executive session. Ms. Watkins-No Councilman Sanford-When I look at what you are doing for the town and what Jennifer did for the town, this issue to me was that of commissions and value. As the purchasing agent or as the budget officer isn’t good value a primary issue for you? Ms. Watkins-Right Councilman Sanford-To me that is paramount importance 70 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 01-16-2007 MTG. #2 I would expect that you in the future will have those same considerations as paramount in your mind. P&C why did you take such an active role for Cool in that? Why didn’t you share all the correspondence you received from our consultant during the process where he was forming his opinion and communicating with the Board, particularly Mr. Platzer, 12/16 memo and follow up his 12/20 final recommendation? Why did you request of our consultant to contact Cool to see if they could enrich coverage when Mr. Platzer pointed out a deficiency in coverage. Did you feel compelled to do the same for Hughes Ins. Agency? Did Dan ask you to do it or you thought it was the right thing to do for you to contact Cool or our consultants to please contact Cool and see if they can enrich the coverage how did that work our? Ms. Watkins-When it came back in that he had picked, even though Cool was the lowest, he said that he had picked Salerno and I said why did you pick Salerno if he was higher they said because of his sexual coverage limitations. I told Dan he picked Salerno because of this, in the mean time Phil Platzer said to me, I said Cool had the higher coverage you would probably go to Cool and he said yea. I told Dan, Dan goes well lets try to get this apples to apples because when you are looking at the RFP you want coverage to coverage you want the same coverage to see how much it is going to cost. So, called Platzer and asked him to do that. I did not ask for Hughes only because Hughes was already higher, Cool was lowest. Councilman Sanford-When I shop for insurance to have my existing car insurance company come back and say I will cut it 25% and enrich the coverage and that is what happened here. I asked Mr. Platzer is that was peculiar, his reply was I am not here to bash Cool however you could and should have been getting lower pricing for the last couple of years at least because your claims experience has been nominal, there was not comparative or competitive analysis done and that was in his letters he did not think Cool earned the renewal. It was not because they had a deficiency in Sexual Harassment Insurance, that was one of the issues. Ms. Watkins-That is what he told me. Councilman Boor-Again, this is where you are creating policy, you are making a determination on stuff that this Board paid for and you did not th forward to this board. I never got the 20 memo I never got the one prior to that. But in the interim of having not been supplied the memo you went to Cool and acted to negotiate this thing without even telling .. you were acting as a Board Member. You should have done in my estimation you should have said I would like to meet with the Board. I would have had questions I would liked answered, I never got an opportunity. Apparently Dan had plenty of opportunity to tell you what he would like you to do and how you should proceed but no other Board Member had that opportunity. Ms. Watkins-I did send you the letters. Councilman Boor-Why didn’t you forward (e-mail). Ms. Watkins-Because it did not say anything new from what his letters said. Councilman Boor-Why did you act on them? Ms. Watkins-I didn’t after that, it was done. Councilman Boor-You read them and asked Mr. Platzer if he would call Cool. Ms. Watkins-No the e-mails were after. Councilman Brewer-Maybe she was acting as the Purchasing Agent, I have a problem with Platzer I never got a memo not one after he makes statements last week or two weeks ago I asked Joanne to call him, I asked her to ask him a question and he calls you because someone asked him a question, Richard. That is not a consultant I want working for the Town, we pay him ten thousand and I cannot ask him a question? Councilman Sanford-I want to state for the record I never knew, met or even know where Mr. Platzer office is other than it is in Massapequa Long Island and as a child I lived in Long Island. Having said that I did meet with him and showed up at the two occasions that he was here in front of the Town Board, other than that there is no relationship whatsoever. The concern I had when Mr. Platzer called me up about our requests and Dan’s request is we recently received a FOIL request from Cool Insurance they foiled the information pertaining to the RFP. Councilman Boor-So, you would continue to seek written and additional stuff with a FOIL in place? You are making policy again and you are putting the town in potential.. Councilman Sanford-Do you think that the recent request from Dan and Tim are all connected to this FOIL request? Ms. Watkins-I really didn’t think it was. Councilman Sanford-The FOIL request is identical to the questions that Tim and Dan asked of Mr. Platzer. Ms. Jennifer Switzer-It sounds like you have a problem with Tim and Dan I think Joanne is being dragged into this. I think that is what she is having a problem telling you. Supervisor Stec-I will throw this out to Joanne or Jennifer, do you think any of the communications that Joanne had with the consultant leading up to the decision to hire Salerno, up to that point any thing abnormal or inappropriate? Ms. Switzer-It goes back to, I hear Roger saying Joanne is making judgments in the position that she is in right now as Purchasing Agent and acting without there being a Budget Officer in the Town there are certain 71 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 01-16-2007 MTG. #2 judgments that you have to make day in and day out. Supervisor Stec-When you did this and you had a series of e-mails between you and the consultant did we get copies of all of them. Ms. Switzer-You did not get copied on all of them. Supervisor Stec-How did you decide which we got and didn’t? Ms. Switzer-I used by professional judgment, and I think that is what Joanne did. I think her judgment is being twisted into her having some type of political agenda. Councilman Sanford-No Councilman Boor-No, absolutely not. Joanne has done a great job. Councilman Sanford-Questioned if Ms. Watkins read or research any articles relating to market trends within the P&C Industry. Ms. Watkins-I did. Councilman Sanford-There are increases in the cost of the P&C insurance treading from 2006 – 2007 re-insurers are having a hard time because of competition in the market place to pass their costs onto the primary insurers. The article concluded by saying that likely you are going to see one and a half percent increase in your insurance rates. The article that Gary Eddy sent in substantiated that we should see a slight or modest increase not a twenty five percent decrease. Noted he researched other sources all substantiated that claim. There is a flat to modest increase in the market. As purchasing agent you should know that. As purchasing agent weren’t you concerned with a seventy thousand dollar lower premium than last year? Why didn’t you believe our consultant? Why didn’t you as purchasing agent request competitive comparative quotes. Isn’t this reasonable protocol? We are not here to deal with your job performance and maybe it would have helped you out if you had a budget officer here. These are fundamental issues that I do think are pertinent to this issue. I personally am concerned because advocated against the position I was taking I think my position has validity and strength and I do not think yours necessarily does and so I am challenging you on it. Ms. Watkins-I was really going by Cool’s letter too, Gary’s letter stating that they have…Councilman Sanford-Why is he communicating through an RFP process and rebutting, how did he know? Did Hughes rebut did Salarno? Because Dan talked with them? Supervisor Stec-That is right you guys knew that you have known that for three weeks after the recommendation, after ..Councilman Boor-If you had read the RFP you would have known that was illegal, Dan. Supervisor Stec-No it wasn’t. Councilman Brewer-After they were opened, no. Councilman Sanford-The record shows that Dan communicated with Cool throughout this RFP process. Supervisor Stec-Not throughout, Richard. Once after telling two of you …Councilman Brewer-After the RFP process wasn’t it? Ms. Watkins-He was asking them if we were over priced the last two years. Councilman Sanford-Before we made a decision there were e-mail messages of 12/20 ’06 from Gary Eddy to Dan Stec and there was a 12/19 06’ letter to Dan Stec from Gary Eddy referencing a voice mail messages. th Supervisor Stec-There is an e-mail to the full board from me stating all that on the 19. I said as I told John and Tim last night at the Board Meeting I called Cool today to ask them the question about how much we..Councilman Sanford-You should not have done that Dan. Supervisor Stec-In August I came to a Town Board Budget Workshop with Jennifer we announced to you that we were told to expect a minimum of a twenty percent reduction and in fact this Town Board budgeted a twenty percent reduction in P&C the RFP did not go out until October and we got the RFP back in the first week in December. Councilman Sanford-I sat in on a public meeting on television that we were going to go for an RFP in February. Then what a coincidence later they come in and say you are going to get a lower price. Supervisor Stec-That is an issue you have with Cool. Councilman Boor-It is not about Joanne she is here because of you, because of the things that you have done. Supervisor Stec-I have done nothing wrong. Councilman Sanford- Why Joanne did you encourage Mr. Platzer to change his recommendation? Why was resolution 6.25 prepared appointing Cool as the recipient of the coverage when we never really discussed it as a Board. Ms. Watkins-That was just an error. Councilman Sanford-Why were you encouraging Mr. Platzer after he made his recommendations? Ms Watkins-Cool was the lowest bid. Councilman Sanford-You admitted you really are not that much of an expect on this. It seems to me that you were heavily in scented to care about this. Ms. Watkins-I was just thinking because he was the lowest bidder and that you would want a good reason why he doesn’t want to go with the lowest bidder. Councilman Sanford-You were here when he stated that he did not think that they earned it because they did not service the account .. Councilman Brewer-That is the reason that I asked him he thought it was seventy thousand dollars we got ripped off for two years, and I ask can he substantiate that. Supervisor Stec-Joanne what was the consultants answer? Ms. Watkins-He said it was market trends he was not going to do a real spread sheet on it, it was just his feeling because they didn’t do a spread sheet last year … Ms. Switzer-If you are paying a consultant and he is making those type of accusations he should have 72 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 01-16-2007 MTG. #2 substantiated more in depth more than a recommendation based upon his feelings. If he felt that strongly about it why did he not put it in writing that is what I do not understand. Councilman Strough-You do not have to put some things down in writing Jennifer, if the insurance rate goes down twenty five percent in one year that brings up a red flag, when the insurance rate trend was to rise. Supervisor Stec-Based on them being the low bidder and for whatever reasons, did I ask you to make that recommendation, did I encourage you or influence you in any way? Ms. Watkins-No Councilman Strough-Joanne did you have conversations with Dan over Cool Insurance? Ms. Watkins-Yes. Councilman Strough-Did you have conversations with Dan over Hughes Insurance? Ms. Watkins- Well yea, Hughes came in on it. Councilman Boor-Did you have conversations with Cool Insurance with me? Ms. Watkins-I do not think so. Councilman Strough-You basically only had various conversations with Dan on Cool Insurance, none of the other options were explored that is my point. Ms. Switzer-I do not think at this point Joanne knows what her role is here and I think you really need to let her know because I feel as though if anybody has been put in a position she should not have been put in and the only reason I am here tonight is for her. Councilman Brewer-The right thing to do would be if employees or Town Board Members have questions of employees this is not the forum one on one during office hours come in and ask. These people who work for this town are not such bad people. Councilman Boor-None of us are saying anybody is a bad person. Councilman Sanford-Joanne replied to an e-mail that John sent her and I wrote back to Joanne, Thank you for you e-mail message addressed to John, the reason we wish to discuss matters with you is to better understand what you refer to in your e-mail was simple questions that the Board may ask you to do certain things and to understand your judgment as it pertains to issues within reason was the words you used. That you are willing to do things within reason as you stated in your message. In addition the conversation with the Board may give you some insight as to our expectations regarding what is and what is not appropriate behavior within the context of your job. Then I ask you if you would be comfortable to attend this meeting. I think Jennifer’s point and Tim’s are a very good point, I think what I would like to do here at the end of this discussion is to create the understanding for moving forward. That is to say that I expect you not only to do your job in terms of numbers and purchasing agent and to do those types of things and I expect that, it is very uncomfortable but it is part of life within government and there is an expectation here at least for me and I think the rest of the Board that you have to judge when you receive requests that may cross the line and become political in nature. It is very uncomfortable, if you are asked to do them by the Supervisor and you do not want to say no, if you are asked to do them by me you probably do not want to say no. I am not going to say it is comfortable and I am not going to give you a whole lot of easy ways to deal with it but I hate to tell you it is part and parcel of what you are here for and you have to do. In the future moving forward if you are ever put in a position where you feel that you might be compromised or you may be advancing a position that may not be the majority’s position of the Board you have to seek out confirmation. I was a little unhappy with you but I said to myself it really is not her fault until we have this conversation, so I could fully explain my expectations. You have to be true to yourself you have to stay out of the politics and if you start getting involved with the politics you got to say time out in all due respect to your request I think I am going to send out an e-mail to the full board for further guidance. If you do that we will not have problems. Councilman Brewer-I think truly she did what she thought was right I have no doubt in my mind about that because I know her, I do not know her as well as some people in this room but I do know her, you said yourself you did not know her how could she understand what your expectation is, that is part of the problem. She does not know your expectation or Roger’s or John’s you do not even know the people so how can you expect anybody in this town building that doesn’t know any or all of you to understand what you expectations is. Councilman Strough-Richard suggested policy that Joanne should follow and Joanne is in agreement and lets go from there. Supervisor Stec-Again, Joanne did nothing wrong, I did nothing wrong, Jennifer did nothing wrong. Councilman Boor-We will leave it that Joanne did nothing wrong. Councilman Brewer-I did not do anything wrong either, I think we have the right to ask any consultant that we have in this town a question. Councilman Strough-Joanne I apologize you were brought into this whole very political … 73 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 01-16-2007 MTG. #2 Town Counsel Noordsy-At some point regarding the fiscal manager residency issue, it is an employment issue and should be discussed in an executive session possibly on Monday, will e-mail the Town Board. DISCUSSION: STEWART’S SEWER REQUEST DIX AVENUE AND QUAKER ROAD Wastewater Director Mike Shaw Introduced Representative of Stewarts’s Brandon Myers Proposal of Stewarts to build a new facility at the Corner of Dix Avenue and Quaker Road at the site of an abandoned gas station…requesting from the Town of Queensbury a sewer extension to the site. Noted that they will be appearing in front of the Planning Board in a couple of weeks. The Stewarts site would be considered an out of district extension. Discussion held regarding conditions of the soils, noted ledge rock in the area, they may have to use insulated pipe. Councilman Sanford-Will this project cost the taxpayers or town any money? Mr. Myers-No. Wastewater Director Shaw-Contract customers we do not spend a nickel of the towns money, it is completely up to them to get their infrastructure to us. They will own and operate … it will be sized to operate Stewarts. In the future all the contract customers there is verbiage in the contract that does say if we do create a district they will become part of the district. Supervisor Stec-When would you hope to do the sewer construction? Mr. Myers-We would do it all at once, we are talking spring or early summer. Supervisor Stec-Out of district contract user. Mr. Shaw do you see any issues from the sewer? Wastewater Director Shaw-No. Councilman Boor-Questioned Mr. Shaw, what is going to happen to the rates are we going start getting .. Wastewater Director Shaw-We met with the Comptroller today about that, they are going to go up. Board agreed to the proposed out of district extension. (Councilman Brewer left the meeting) DISCUSSION: AQUARIUM OF THE ADIRONDACK’S PRESENTATION Sharon Borgos made the following introductions: Phil LaPann founding member of the Aquarium of the Adirondacks, Michael Goldberg is here to do the presentation Mr. LaPann-My vision is to make a family oriented educational facility that not only encompasses our area but the whole world. I have put together a team of people who are committed to this project. Mr. Goldberg he has a company called Aquarium design International they custom build and install, service aquariums all over the world. 74 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 01-16-2007 MTG. #2 Mr. Goldberg-Director of Operations at Aquarium Design International We are located at Chestnut Ridge, New York also opening facilities in Royal Palm Beach Florida. We are working to bring to the Adirondacks Region and state of the art aquarium, science and education center of its own. We are currently proposing to build a forty million dollar, sixty thousand square foot aquarium. It will be filled with the latest technology, interactive experience as part of Phase I. This will be built and designed to complement the Adirondack Regions architecturally and environmentally. Bike paths and walking paths will be part of the landscape. We propose to have fully functional and interactive class rooms, lecture halls and auditoriums. There will be a committee for education, the committee will be responsible for fund raising, to secure money for continuous development of our educational effort. Five main attractions for Phase I, The Adirondack Mountain Exhibit, with scenic mountains, waterfalls star constellations and approximate thirty foot viewing panel of the species native to this location. The Lake George Exhibit will explore the complexity and diversity of one of New Yorks natural wonders. We will also have a massive shark tank which display one of the most controversially feared species on the planet. The living reef will contain the most beautiful and precious livestock that our oceans have to offer. The learn seat which is also one of our favorites here, will be an interactive display. Also have behind the scene tours of the latest technologies, filtration systems and life support system available. This project will involve much more than a traditional aquarium it will have many components integrated in unique ways, all for the purpose of better understanding the largest component of the earths surface. The Aquarium of the Adirondacks will attract tourism year round this will be a big boost to the economy. There will be many job opportunities for young and older residents both in and out of the aquarium. The proposed project a non for profit 501C-3 Organization. Looking for a location for this project, many sites have been brought to our attention most in the Lake George, and Queensbury Region. The aquarium falls in the category of a museum and it most be determined if that category will be recognized by the local municipalities. We are aware that the Town of Queensbury at this moment does not currently have that identified category for either a museum or aquarium. Neither are listed as permitted uses anywhere in the Town of Queensbury. Since the Town is currently in the process of updating its Zoning Regulations it seems appropriate to request that the Town Board ask the Planning Professional to incorporate both museum and aquarium as permitted uses in the Highway Commercial, intensive and Highway Commercial and Moderate Zones. Perhaps now is the time to include a major museum or educational project as one of the potentially included developments in the newly proposed zone. The flexibility described for the new zone on the official Town Web Site seems to have merit for a project such as the aquarium. We hope that with careful consideration you will support the inclusion of the aquarium and museum in the future of Queensbury. Councilman Sanford-What is your business model? Sharon Borgos-Right now we are simply asking just to talk about the Zoning Issue and that there is not a museum zone here, without out the zone we could not locate here. We want to make sure that Queensbury is on our list. Noted several studies have been done and it is a feasible based on the numbers that we have. Tonight we are here to talk about the museum zone. Councilman Boor-Are you only concerned with Highway Commercial, Plaza Commercial? Sharon Borgos-No, we thought it might be easier to talk about an inclusion that creation of a brand new zone. Councilman Strough-If you find a location and it is a reasonable location I think you will find at least you will find my support. Mr. LaPann-Tonight we are not asking for a conclusive answer, we want to make you aware. Councilman Boor-Questioned the size of the property needed for the project. 75 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 01-16-2007 MTG. #2 Mr. LaPann-Minimum five acres with no room for expansion, looking for ten acres or more. Councilman Sanford-If you were to go forward, is the town inclined to say that they feel that this would be a museum would be something worthy enough to forgo the revenue stream that we would get if it was a commercial enterprise. My own opinion is sure, for ten acres if you were able to do this that would be rewarding to visitors and tourism and also the people that live in the community it would be an enhancement, and yet having said all of that even though it might not be any of my business I certainly would be interested in viewing the business plan for something like that. Mr. LaPan-I have been working on this for a long time, I have been doing my homework on this, one of the first things I did was to see if it was viable. Supervisor Stec-The answer to your question to the Town is I think you have gotten, if you find an appropriate location the Town is prepared to work with you on making sure that you have some sort of zoning provided that will enable it. DISCUSSION: RECREATION COMMISSION – RIDGE/JENKINSVILLE PARK Chairman Recreation Commission Jack LaBombard- Introduced Lloyd Mott, Tim Conboy, Joe Fusco - We want to redevelop Ridge/Jenkinsville Fields The discussion of developing this site has been ongoing since Betty Little was Chairman of the Recreation Commission. Director Steve Lovering-Ridge/Jenkinsville Park is an eighty acre parcel located off Jenkinsville Road. The Master Plan was completed in February of 2004, what we tried to do was to take the eighty acre parcel, taking the area that was cleared and try to figure out what we wanted to do down the road, what do we need now. The first thing that was done in the late 80’s was a softball field complex, four fields a field house with bathrooms, this is home to over sixty adult softball leagues they play five nights a week from April to the end of August. The next phase of the Master Plan was to put in ancillary facilities to go along with basically what amounted to a big soft ball field a big open corn field and some parking, the next thing we did was added a basketball court and two tennis courts that was finished up in 2005. That has been very successful. The next phase III was to look at the needs that have been developed over ten years or more. Currently we use this for our soccer games, we have three makeshifts fields in here. We have been using the fields for ten years, we used to use the school property. Use of the school property is drying up for activities such as this where you need six, eight soccer fields in order to put on a kids soccer program that space does not exist at the school anymore. The field conditions are poor we have been playing on them, we make due but it is not uncommon to fill in gofer holes and fill in spots and throw seed down want to keep it a safe place. The other reason we are proposing this Adirondack Soccer has been using the fields for close to ten years, they were the first major group in the community that came to us. Last year we were contacted by the girls lacrosse program as well as the boys lacrosse they used the fields last year and again this year. We are trying to work out all of their space needs. That is a general over view of the first three phases. What we are proposing is to take the next phase and rather than do it all at once we are proposing that we concentrate on a bank of three fields. By doing that we can accommodate the current programs that we have and we can also accommodate in the spring and summer we can accommodate the lacrosse programs and the Adirondack Youth Soccer. We are proposing three fields in two different projects, one in 2007 and one project in 2008. Not only will we be able to accommodate our own programs now and in the future but we are going to be able to find a home for the girls lacrosse program, and the boys lacrosse program, Adirondack Soccer, the over 30 soccer league they really do not have a home where they can run a tournament or have home games that are played on decent field conditions. That is our main drive to accommodate our needs and accommodate some big user groups in our community that have a need and told us for years that there is a need, we have not been in a position to help. 76 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 01-16-2007 MTG. #2 Councilman Sanford-There is a commitment in money that is required for something like this and let alone we are not talking about the maintenance and all is significant as well. I am kind of the school that if there is private businesses that can provide some of these and is reasonable and allows the public to utilize them that is probably preferred than for us to provide them. I am thinking of the dome, that is a private business they got a big facility there and I do not know if it is underutilized or over utilized or what but I am wondering if the town went forward with this and you have all these activities taking place up there is that going to further put a nail in the coffin in terms of their business plan in terms of utilizing their facility. Have you thought about that? Director Lovering-We have talked about it, at that the last meeting I will not speak for any of the commissioners I will only speak on what I think I heard, and that was yes it is great when private developers build facilities like this for the community needs but what tends to happens and perhaps this is where the Adirondack Dome is where they are falling down is the cost to operate. They are a for profit, they are looking to generate revenue; they want to be in the black. The general feeling on the commission is we are not trying to recoup the costs of this in five years, we are not trying to charge these youth groups some large exorbitant fee in order to make money, we are trying to find a place a home for them. I do not feel that they will find that at the dome. Chairman LaBombard-We want to stay away from the word competition, we are not in competition with anybody, the Dorm is its own thing. There is a big need for this, what brought this up is when we got a call that there was a need for a field for girls lacrosse program so we provided them a field about twenty to thirty girls that played lacrosse at one years time that number went to two hundred. That number is going up. The other big issue, that the Town of Queensbury is going to have to face is that the school is not far from saying we just can accommodate your recreation programs anymore and when that happens I do not think that any of us in this room should criticize the school, they are running their programs and the place is maxed out. Member of the Commission Mr. Tim Conboy-We discussed what is private and public type of thing, the Dome is a great spot I use the Dome and a lot of youth in the area use it tends to be more for the family and the kids that are hard core on a given sport, travel team type players. The programs that we offer tend to be more inclusive and there is a cost difference as well where we can offer programs at a lower cost because it is paid partly through taxpayer dollars not just the fees the participants spend. Would we hurt the Dome, I do not think so. I think the more we can create opportunities for kids in the community to participate in sports the more customers we create for that, clients. Councilman Sanford-The other question I have is, I would be more inclined if it was more modest in the scale. We are talking one point six million dollars project one and two. Director Lovering-Spoke on the costs of the fields, we could entertain the thought of maybe going in and starting with something less than three, maybe two fields, there is only so small that you can go because of what we are talking about is some irrigation so you are talking about a pump house and you would want bathrooms, you first chunk is probably the most expensive chunk. Councilman Sanford-Suggest that the project could be done in more stages. Chairman LaBombard-We are already at that stage. Councilman Strough-Noted that this will attract tournaments, questioned the parking. Director Lovering-We have more than doubled the parking area. Member of the Commission Mr. Conboy -This is just a conceptual master plan, what the project involves is a design phase where we hire a landscape architect to work out the specific requirements. 77 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 01-16-2007 MTG. #2 Member of Commission Lloyd Mott-If we go to the development of two fields, then two fields as the need is demonstrated that’s probably acceptable. I would argue against spending a lot more money on parking and cut back on our fields, because we want the fields for the kids and these numbers are growing and continue to grow. Member of the Commission Conboy-Spoke on the project time line, introduce the plan to the Town Board in January and focus on the first project of three fields additional parking, field house and irrigation for 2007. Like to have the fields usable by 2008. that means we have to start construction in June of 2007. Director Lovering-What we are suggesting is to do an RFP for the design services, we would do this now. The RFP would be to tell us how much it would cost for them to design this project so we could go out to bid. Councilman Strough-Spoke on the RFP for the bike trail, included the design, preparation of bidding documents and grant application. Director Lovering-The RFP is almost completely written. We could send out the RFP th tomorrow and say by January 30 would be the dead line to put in your proposal for what you would charge us to design this project. Design will take from eight to twelve weeks. Member of the Commission Mr. Conboy-If we can get the Town Board on board with the project approve the funding for the 2007 phase at the same time we will award the design contract based on what we get back from the RFP. Councilman Strough-I support the project, but some options as to having different phases, maybe subdivide it a little bit more in chunks that are easier to swallow and if there was grant funding supplementing the costs. Councilman Sanford-Noted he agreed with Councilman Strough, and he needs to get out there and walk this and understand it a little bit better. I am concerned about the costs. I do not dispute or attempt to argue against what you are trying to do here which is to enhance the quality of life for people that live in this community. If there is a way to take this a little bit slower and transition to it and still give people something that is exciting and enjoyable I would support that a little bit more enthusiastically. Questioned if we should be discussing our recreational activities with the City of Glens Falls and others and doing some more joint planning so together we are providing the facilities to meet the needs of multiple communities rather than looking at it in a very provincial sense? Director Lovering-If these fields are built they would be built on the need that we have now and the future needs that we see not only for our community but we cannot use Morris Fields those are not available to us. If we were going to build something like this I do not see any reason why a soccer group from South Glens Falls or Glens Falls or anybody else as long as the field was available why we would turn them down. Member of the Commission Mr. Mott-You are talking about intermunicipal cooperation I have lived here for ten years and I have never seen it get off the ground. The garages down here why do we have one in Hudson Falls, one in Glens Falls one in Queensbury within an area of twenty square miles you got four or five town departments you got four or five town boards you got four or five school districts with four or five Superintendent salaries and so on, but it is not happening. The concept is wonderful, but it is not going to happen. Chairman LaBombard-Philosophically everyone agrees with what you are saying practically, we need to build our own fields. Councilman Boor-In the RFP can you go to more tiered phasing in? Chairman LaBombard-Spoke on the phasing of the project. Director Lovering-If you wanted to break something down and still end up with a multi use field, do the well and irrigation and the field house which you will need in the future 78 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 01-16-2007 MTG. #2 what you are going to end up with is spending maybe five hundred thousand dollars but only get one field, and then you will have to build that bathrooms the irrigation the pump equipment for the irrigation you will get that plus one field. Councilman Sanford-You are saying the fixed costs for the infrastructure and then if you phase in the fields you are going to be paying the lions share anyway and not having the big bang for the buck and I appreciate that concept. Director Lovering-We could spend less money but it is probably money better spent to go a little bit more at the very least you have got to go two fields. Supervisor Stec-To summarize, you are in it so much for the minimum for infrastructure and then at that point you have a marginal incremental cost for adding fields, I think what the Board is saying is they understand that, they like the concept they would like to pursue this but before we pull the trigger on nine hundred and seventy four thousand dollars show us a ball park what you think those are. If we said do one, lets do two lets do three and then none of us would be surprised. Member of the Commission Mr. Conboy-The idea is to come back to the Board at every stage, first the design and then come back . Supervisor Stec-Reviewed for the commission the resolutions and public hearing that would need to be set for CIP monies. Member of Commission Mr. Mott-I would be more favorable take phase I and do it with three fields and the infrastructure they all do fit together and then re-evaluate. Councilman Sanford-I appreciate what you are saying if you are going to pay all this money don’t just do one field do the three but you may find that three maybe in great demand you may find that it is ok for awhile. Director Lovering-Three fields would take a huge load off the pressure of trying to get the programs in over there. Chairman LaBomard-Will we be able to get a funding resolution February for at least part of it? ndth Supervisor Stec-We have three board meetings, January 22, February 5 and February ththth 26. Resolution for February 5 setting a public hearing for the 26. For CIP for the nine hundred and seventy four thousand dollars. You could have the funding in place by th February 26. DISCUSSION: DEEP HOLE TEST - PALMIOTTO Eng. Tom Center-Spoke to the Town Board regarding a request for a deep hole test for the Palmiotto property on Dineen Road Letter from DEC and colored copies of GIS information. Supervisor Stec-Are there any variances that will be required? Eng. Center-We have measured in the field we have located the owners well, Charlie Main flagged the wetland boundary and contacted DEC they came out looked at the flagging and agreed with it, we have a letter to that affect. This parcel is three point something acres in size the wetland boundary goes off the property we have an area to the northwest where we can put the system without any variances. We are looking to do a test pit to confirm whether we have any ground water issues and then to design a system. This is a failed septic system we tried to do this as expediently as possible. Councilman Sanford-I am seeing this for the first time with no drawings I get this coming in it is in a CEA. 79 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 01-16-2007 MTG. #2 Eng. Center-It is in a CEA. It is on Glen Lake. I submitted these copies. I submitted th them on the 18 to Mr. Stec’s Office eight copies. We are looking to do a test pit and follow the normal process submit a design letter in typical details. Councilman Sanford-What is the purpose of the new septic system because, are they going to do new construction down the road? Eng. Center-The existing one has failed. Councilman Sanford-But are they going to be doing new construction down the road? Eng. Center-I do not believe so, it is an occupied house they need a new septic system it has failed. Councilman Sanford-Is it going to be bigger system that they are putting in that will handle greater capacity? Eng. Center-The system will be sized for the existing house. Councilman Sanford-Is it undersized now or properly sized now? Eng. Center-I do not know it has failed. Councilman Boor-Is our engineer going to witness the test pit? Eng. Center-That is why we are here. We are here to follow the normal process. Supervisor Stec-I do not have a problem with it I will copy Dan Ryan on what I have but you may want to reach out to him, he will hear from us tomorrow that it is ok, you will coordinate on your end with him. Eng. Center-Once we have the test pit done and the design letter and typical details does that come back to this Board before we can put the system in if we get the engineers sign off? Supervisor Stec-If we feel that we need to intervene for any reason or ask any question we do, if not he sends it down the path. DISCUSSION: SOUTH QUEENSBURY FIRE DEPARTMENT RADIO REQUEST Chief Lettus-South Queensbury Vol. Fire Company Supervisor Stec-Request of So. Queensbury Vol. Fire Co. for new radios…$8,500. Chief Lettus-It is higher than $8,500 we will kick in the other three hundred. Councilman Sanford-You want to go with Albany Communications. Chief Lettus-Right Supervisor Stec-This will require a public hearing to modify their contract. Board Agreed 80 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 01-16-2007 MTG. #2 DISCUSSION: MR. WEBSTER – CHESTNUT RIDGE WETLAND QUESTIONS Mr. Charles Webster-Reviewed history of his property…showed maps of the area, noting that a dam has been created which raised the water level and directed water through his property…requested that the property not be designated as wetland. It was noted that formerly the water was flowing northward and is now flowing to the south. Wishes to build a home on the lot but cannot meet the setbacks from the wetland designated area. Would like to have the pond lowered in the Town of Kingsbury to dry up his property. Councilman Sanford-Have our engineer come in and look at this and have a better understanding and to talk to you as well as to do a site visit on this. Councilman Boor-Encouraged Mr. Webster to talk to the property owners in Kingsbury, if they have changed the direction of the stream. Mr. Webster-Even if this is changed it will not dry out for quite a while. Councilman Boor-Lets have Dan Ryan take a look at it. Councilman Strough-You have got other issues to Mr. Webster, your ground water is like two feet underneath the surface, you have quite a slope problem here, for building it is less than ideal and storm water drainage it is not ideal. Mr. Webster-The slope is ideal … Supervisor Stec-The question for Dan Ryan is review the situation. Councilman Boor-The question is he is looking to build a house put a well and put a septic in and given the changing terrain and water situation is it possible. If it is possible does it require people in Washington County to take some action. Councilman Sanford-What remedy if any can the Town of Queensbury offer? Councilman Boor-If our engineer concurs with everything that you have said a letter from him going to CORPS OR DEC will probably have a better impact. Supervisor Stec-Will have Engineer Ryan call Mr. Webster. DISCUSSION: JAY MAYER – BAY RIDGE RESCUE SQUAD Bay Ridge Rescue Squad Jay Mayer-Both Mr. Boor and Mr. Sanford stopped up by the Rescue Squad Building and saw the situation. We have in our operational budget is a scholarship fund which we agreed to a restricted fund of $3,000. per year. That is used for members to give them monies if they want to go to nursing school or paramedic school or things of that type. Some of it we get back from the State if they go to paramedic school. So far we have handed money out of it we are five hundred dollars down so this year we should have about fifty five hundred dollars. We spent some money since we talked to you, $19,000. we put the drain grading in on the floor, we purchased five AED’s at $12,000. and we purchased ten pagers at $5,000. and we put the fans in the bay area, which comes to approximately $19,000 for the whole thing. The increase in assisted living units in the Town of Queensbury, they are not nursing homes and whether the consideration was factored infrastructure for EMS and Fire we are doing a lot of calls into these places. Added spending on the new ambulance will probably cost more than initially figured. I still think we can deal with the initial figure of up to $44,000. Also, hydraulic stretchers we are looking at two are ten thousand apiece, we have a demo coming next week, they do save backs. Item that measures CO on people 81 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 01-16-2007 MTG. #2 $3,100. this will let us know how high the CO levels are with out doing invasive procedures. Councilman Sanford-Reviewed how other budgets were done, we will settle on a budget number and then we will later deal with acquisitions, try to arrive at a number net of the ambulance and the ambulance would be later treated as an additional add on to your contract. Supervisor Stec-I can look at an ambulance independent from what stance we have taken with the fire trucks. Councilman Sanford-Reviewed the 2005 audit…spoke to Allen Powers and reviewed with him a proposed 2006 trends, he trended it as $152,779 for 2007 without ambulance. If you added the $12,000 to that number if the Town Board moves forward with the ambulance you would come up with a number of $164,779. vs your $175,980. that you have requested. Representative of Bay Ridge Rescue Mr. Mayer-What about the $3,000. which is not operational, for the education fund and the $19,000. we spent in 2006. Councilman Sanford-if you spent that in 2006 these numbers his numbers should reflect it in terms of expenditure. Representative of Bay Ridge Rescue Mr. Mayer-These were just paid last week they are not part of that number. Councilman Sanford-Did you have an accrual in your accounting records for it? Representative of Bay Ridge Rescue Mr. Mayer-Yes. Councilman Sanford-When did you know you were going to make this expenditure? Representative of Bay Ridge Rescue Mr. Mayer-These were supposed to be made 2006 but we were holding onto the money until the end of the year. Councilman Sanford-You could book an accrual for them in your accounting. His records would reflect Representative of Bay Ridge Rescue Mr. Mayer-Not what he gave you there. Councilman Sanford-That is an added expenditure. That would show as a capitalization. Representative of Bay Ridge Rescue Mr. Mayer-Regulators and the pagers do but the grading probably doesn’t and the fans in the bay area probably don’t. Councilman Sanford-They would be capitalized they would show as an asset but you would have debt service. Representative of Bay Ridge Rescue Mr. Mayer-No, debt service they are paid. Councilman Sanford- Two questions for the Board is the Board comfortable with going forward with a commitment for a new ambulance purchase or do we want to treat that later on? Depending on that answer I will throw out a number that we could settle on for operations. Board agreed to replacement of the ambulance. Councilman Sanford-We have the votes for the ambulance then I say $164,000. Supervisor Stec-They are asking for $176,000. 82 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 01-16-2007 MTG. #2 Councilman Strough-The scholarship funding .. Representative of Bay Ridge Rescue Mr. Mayer-That is in our operations budget. Councilman Strough-The scholarship funding should be coming out of private donations. Representative of Bay Ridge Rescue Mr. Mayer-No, this was approved a few years ago by the Town Board. Councilman Boor-I would recommend in the future to use private donations. Supervisor Stec-I will look into that. Councilman Boor-Would like to settle for $175,000 and change. Councilman Sanford-I will not settle for that, I will say $166,000. Representative of Bay Ridge Rescue Mr. Mayer-$175,980 is with the ambulance. Councilman Strough-I have not found anything unreasonable with what they have requested with the exception of the $3,000 for the scholarship. I would suggest $172,980. Supervisor Stec-I do not think that the $3,000 should be in there. Councilman Boor-Was the $3,000 in your original budget? Representative of Bay Ridge Rescue Mr. Mayer-Yes. If you want to cut it out at this point until we find out further information I do not have any problem. Councilman Sanford-If they spent the money that flowed out in 2005 was about $118,000. Councilman Strough-If you have frugal enterprise that spends money very efficiently and they want to do something innovated you actually punish them with your formula. Supervisor Stec-I would suggest $170,000 it takes into account the three thousand that I will look into about the scholarship, I do not think that should be town money. Board agreed to $170,000 which includes the ambulance. nd Supervisor Stec-Try to get this on the agenda for the 22 of January to have the public th hearing on February 5. RESOLUTION ADJOURNING TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 54, 2007 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Special Town Board Meeting. th Duly adopted this 16 day of January, 2007 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: Mr. Brewer 83 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 01-16-2007 MTG. #2 Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury