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2001-07-12 SP SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING July 12, 2001 MTG. #28 RES. 289-292 7:00 P.M. TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER COUNCILMAN JAMES MARTIN COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY COUNCILMAN BREWER PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUATION OF PUBLIC HEARING ON JULY 9TH REGARDING BAY RIDGE VOLUNTEER FIRE COMPANY SUPERVISOR BROWER-Being that this is a continuation of a public hearing that we had Monday evening, at this time before we have further discussion I think I would like to ask if there are any member of the public that would like to address the Board at this time concerning the proposed fire station? Seeing none, I will ask the Board Members if they have, I guess further questions or comments? COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Just when we have everybody here from the company, I think we should express our condolences over the passing, very unexpectedly of the Fire Company's Treasurer and long time member Dick Bilodeau. Anybody that knew him was, I just heard today for the first time around five o'clock and I was shocked. He was a mountain of a man and the only thing that was bigger than him was his generosity. That is a sad day. I just want to pass that along. SUPERVISOR BROWER-I agree, Jim, I, that was sad news, Dave Hatin came in and broke the news to me yesterday and Dick was a great man and he will be sorely missed. Board Members, any? COUNCILMAN MARTIN-We have the numbers here, Henry has done another look here. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Henry would you brief the Board for the record please, on the impact of the request. COMPTROLLER HESS-I just did a quick analysis in three ways and this is information that we were able to gather up from the Fire Company, they came in this morning and presented the last of the information. We looked at it three ways; first of all we have budget amends to two existing contracts that are affected. They are affected for the years two thousand one and two thousand and two. The budget for the year two thousand one was originally two hundred and eighty three thousand eight hundred and twelve dollars and the amendments will bring it up to four fifty one, one fifty six or about a fifty nine percent increase. The original budget for two thousand and two was two ninety five, five hundred that is coming up to around five hundred and ten thousand six hundred or an increase of around seventy two percent. Just to put it in perspective the two-year change will be around a sixty six percent change for those two years. The second way we looked at it was, what is the estimated impact on future budgets. hat I did, I took the debt service as it is projected and there will be changes in the interest rate on the new loan but we just have to deal with what we know now. But they are proposing a thirty-year loan with debt service for the first five years of a hundred and seventeen thousand one sixty-two. There will be debt service on the revolving loan for twenty years for twelve thousand eight thirty. Once the Glen Lake Station is sold and I estimate that, that will be sold within a year, that expires and I do not know that, that is the case but I have to make the assumption that it will be sold as soon as the move away from it which will give them credit for six years of debt service which is right now thirty one thousand two thirty six. The Fire Companies contract calls for a fifty five hundred dollar a year contribution toward debt service, we figured that in and then the without a lot of close estimates as to what the utilities and casualties increase we had a pretty good estimate of the casualty insurancebecause we budgeted five thousand more for next year for casualty insurance and when I talked to Chip today he thinks that is enough to cover it. We estimated six thousand dollars a year or five hundred a month in additional utilities and building expenses on a building of that size. So, the total annual change on a current dollar basis would be about one hundred and four thousand dollars to carry the new building as opposed to the two old buildings. Over the life of the financing a thirty year period it would be about a three million seven hundred and fifty thousand dollar cost. The effect on tax rate just using the numbers that are in existence now the amount of total fire districts budget last year against what this will impact them this will result in a five point six percent increase in the amount in total fire district budgets. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Does that five point six percent include the truck fund additional now from West Glens Falls? COMPTROLLER HESS-This is based on what it was this past year. We have not factored in there is other money that has been spent that has not been factored in. We do not have those budgets in yet to do that, so we are only factoring what the effect of this is on the budget that exists this year, now. So, if it was in effect now the budget would be five point six percent higher than it is, than it was for two thousand and one. The final.. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Can I interrupt one second? COMPTROLLER HESS-Yes. COUNCILMAN BREWER-This, the utilities in and building expense, that is six thousand above and beyond what we have already budgeted? COMPTROLLER HESS-That is a best guess, that building is going to take more, more heat and light and so we are looking at five hundred dollars a month more COUNCILMAN BREWER-More than how much did we already budget for that now? COMPTROLLER HESS-Well I do not know I did not bring the budgets, I am giving you a perspective on what we think the cost is going to be. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Well, we got thirteen three ninety here it says in the original two thousand one, so it's a little over a thousand dollars a month. COMPTROLLER HESS-We could argue that, we could argue that it could be higher or lower but it is change it by a little bit and it changes by a little bit, but it is a best guess number. The main thing is you cannot overlook the affects of those things whether they are whether this number is low or high I do not know but the effect will be there. The third, the final thing we looked at is just simply what is the dollar cost to the town. Obviously the three million seven fifty we figured in the center colunm, here doesn't change but we are just figuring in what the other costs the town has put into it which really haven't been great at this point. In the year two thousand the town funded the land purchase of twenty two thousand five, in two thousand one a budget amendment was made for a hundred and fifty thousand dollar soft cost contribution, which was made. In two thousand and two there is a budget amendment passed already to allow for a hundred thousand dollar soft cost contribution and the sum of those re off set by the value of the deed to the building which the Town will eventually end up with and I assigned that a hundred and fifty thousand dollars because that is the number that we were dealing with all along. So, that is an additional cost cash cost that the Town has put in of one hundred and twenty two five. So, just using these numbers the best guess estimates we have at this point it comes in around three million eight hundred and seventy thousand dollars or there about will be the towns investment in that property. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Would the architect come forward, Dick Jones would you come to the mic please? Dick I just wanted to clarify a couple things that I had questions on. The furnishing for the building the carpeting, drapes, blinds whatever, desks are they included in your estimates that you have brought to us so far? ARCHITECT DICK JONES-Fixed floor finishes are, we have some equipment in the budget they are taking some of the equipment that they currently have in the two facilities and bring that to the new building as well. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Do you expect change orders on this project? As you are going along? ARCHITECT DICK JONES-We have a contingency figured in the budget of twenty five thousand dollars currently for potential change orders. We have dealt with the contractor that we had negotiated the lowest bid with we have just currently finished a fire station with them up north that was worth over a million dollars. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Is that Hague? ARCHITECT DICK JONES-Yes. Through the life of the project the change orders on that project were approximately five thousand dollars so we feel comfortable with the twenty five thousand dollar number that we have. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Were you the architect on the fire station number 2? Were you hired to construct number 2 for Bay Ridge? ARCHITECT DICK JONES-No. No we were not, that was not our project. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Chip would you come up to the mic? Today I tried to have my Executive Assistant scrounge the records to determine when Fire Station Number 2 was built and the best we could come up with was 1988 at least that was when the mortgage was assumed and I guess it will be paid off in 2008, is that correct? CHIEF CHIP MELLON-I believe so. Yes. It is. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Did you have an architect for this, or did you CHIEF CHIP MELLON-JM Weller Associates was the business that built that building. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-It was a design built type thing wasn't it? CHIEF CHIP MELLON-Right. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Board Members have any further questions of Chip while he is here up at the mic? COUNCILMAN BREWER-Yes. Chip you and I spoke earlier and I will ask you again, or mention it anyways, is, I understand that you put the utilities and everything down stairs is there any way we can eliminate the basement to and I am not saying that we should have just a steel building or whatever anybody else is saying. I am just saying is there any way we can cut any cost if we sat down with the plans? Talk to the contractors, I mean, I know you guys have worked four years or plus on this and you have worked very hard and I do not want, you are approved right now for one point seven five. Is there any way we can trim anything? CHIEF CHIP MELLON-Give me just one second. What Dick Jones has now we talked about that earlier today. We have had discussions on how actually we have scaled down the project from the original concept. What Dick has now is the building layout with some square footage how they were originally and how they were scaled down, basically in relations to the offices I think is one question I know of concern. Dick is going to pass them out. We basically, when we redesigned or reconfigured the building during this whole process we scaled down the foot print of the building we took out some of what we felt were less usable spaces in the building, would you say that is correct Dick? With respect to hallways, storage building or storage areas things like that. We did reduce the size of the offices we also did reduce some of the size of the apparatus bays if I remember, right. I will ask Dick to clarify it even more. ARCHITECT DICK JONES-Basically, when we presented the initial plans to you back in January of 2000, the apparatus bays support space which included the five double bays was approximately seventy seven hundred square feet. As you can see coming across that is the first colunm the first gray line down. As we have progressed with the project we have reduced it. Back in November of 2000, we had design meetings with the Fire Company, at that point we pulled more square footage out of the project, right now we are currently down to just over seventy four hundred square feet for the ten bays. The next group down with the heading, Office Area, basically incorporates all of the offices the spaces that are being utilized by the Fire Company in the building. Again, in January of 2000 we started with 2500 square feet a little over 2500, we have currently trimmed that down to just over 2200 less than 2300 square feet. So, we have made ten percent or better cuts across the board on these items. The meeting facilities, basically we have tried to reduce and tighten that area as well. We initially started with approximately three thousand square feet in that area of the building and we reduced it down to twenty less than twenty seven hundred. The mechanical room at that point we had on the first floor, it was undersized for the building at that point. Basically we have taken many of the areas that were, we created for storage in the building basically down sized them. The record storage went into the basement, they currently, they do not have a fire rated storage vault. We need something for the facility and it is put in the basement. We took the mechanical equipment we have got all kinds of equipment now for the emergency generator there is a multitude of systems and all of that stuff is in the basement. We have external pumps in the basement; we have pressure tanks in the basement for the wells. We have our three boilers in the basement so there is a lot of mechanical equipment. We have a whole wall of electrical pnels as well. Our transfer switch and all of that for the generator is down there, so we basically between even the point of bidding in June until now reduced the basement some more. We have cut the thing and we have really cut it down to the point where the basic spaces that they have in the building now meet their program needs, there is not an abundance of space. They do not really have all the storage that they really need but we are looking to use portions of the basement area as well for storage. Basically the basement is one of the cheaper aspects of the building and that is why we took those things and pushed it into the basement. The soil conditions up there are very good for that type of a system. We do not have a high water table we have good draining soils so it seemed to be the best mode of providing space that we were not providing foot print of the building for. COUNCILMAN TURNER-Dick I have a question, the heating system, is that going to be radiant heat in the floors? ARCHITECT DICK JONES-Yes, it is. We found that in the fire companies the radiant heat especially in the apparatus bays serves the building very, very well because it is economical and one thing that I might add during the design of this project we went through and analyzed the projected utility cost for the building and we were looking at a total utility cost of I think around thirteen to fourteen thousand dollars, because the building is more energy efficient. The two buildings they have are really not energy efficient buildings. We are only building about twenty five hundred square feet more in our new facility than what they currently have in two but our utility costs because of our energy systems that we have boilers, under floor heating, we have air exchangers those types of things in the building. It is a very efficient building. COUNCILMAN BREWER-How much did you say it would be a year? ARCHITECT DICK JONES-I think we were looking at thirteen to fourteen thousand, I do not have that paper with me tonight, Tim. But it was less than fifteen thousand dollars on an annual basis to heat that building, for heating and cooling. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Right now we are budgeting thirteen nine, or thirteen three ninety I am sorry it goes up to nineteen. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-It is estimated to be nineteen with the new building, conservatively. ARCHITECT DICK JONES-We added a little bit of utility costs there because of the propane for the generator, and the generator the propane also services the kitchen and the facility as well. We have propane equipment in there. COUNCILMAN TURNER-Dick, one other question, Exterior lighting? Is it going to be pole mounted, building mounted? ARCHITECT DICK JONES-We have a combination of both, Ted, it consists oflighting fixtures that were approved as part of the site plan review, we have pole mounted fixtures in the parking areas, we have building mounted fixtures at the apparatus bays. COUNCILMAN TURNER-Is that included in all, everything is in here? ARCHITECT DICK JONES-Yes, it is. COUNCILMAN TURNER-How about the traffic lights, out in the road, how about the lights out in the road, traffic lights, any, there is two isn't there? CHElF CHIP MELLON-We talked about that at one point about adding the traffic lights, at this point we haven't included them because we did not feel it was an interregnal part of the building per sa, it would be something that we would add later on. ARCHITECT DICK JONES-In going through site plan review I know that they had discussed it at one of the meetings and it was felt that at that time it was not an issue because of the site lines that we have both north and south on Bay Road, right there at the points. We actually located the building entrances on Bay to maximize the views in both directions. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Dan, do you have any questions? COUNCILMAN STEC-I do not have any questions right now. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Jim? COUNCILMAN MARTIN-No, I am all set. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Do you want to go over the soft costs, Chip, the ones that you were telling me about? CHIEF CHIP MELLON-I will turn that over to Paul Pontiff. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-Good evening Gentlemen. A couple of things just to cover that question of soft costs. I think the other night there was some misconception about what was categorized as soft costs and I think that has now been clarified. The soft costs are essentially those items which relate to the following; I will read them quickly if you need copies I can get you copies. The mortgage tax based upon the financing which amounts to seventeen thousand thirty dollars. The USDA guarantee fee keeping in mind that this is the money borrowed from the US, a guarantee provided by the USDA they charge a fee for that, thirteen thousand six hundred and twenty four dollars. The bank commitment fee of eight thousand five hundred and thirteen dollars, looks like thirteen, it is either thirteen or fifteen, title insurance, six thousand based upon the value of the mortgage. The bank has five thousand dollars of Attorney's fees in here and I talked to Mike O'Connell about that this evening and he was including al Attorneys fees and after we looked at that, that figure will probably be cut about in half, twenty five hundred to three thousand dollars. Only because I do not think that the Bank Attorney is going to charge five thousand dollars based upon what I know and based upon what Mike knows and I think he included all Attorneys fees and I generally bill this company as well as other companies about fifty percent of our hourly rate when I bill them. So, it is not going to be anywhere near that figure. Real estate appraisal of seventeen hundred and fifty dollars, which is required by the bank for the financing. The Phase I Environmental Assessment of fifteen hundred dollars, the site inspection fee during construction of a thousand dollars and a misc. of a thousand dollars whatever that entails. Now, those figures including the five thousand dollars for Attorneys fees come to fifty five thousand four hundred and nineteen dollars vs. the seventy five thousand that we had in the soft costs in quotes the other nigh. So, those are the items and most likely you are going to be looking at in the neighborhood of that figure. We do not want to be too short on it because we do not want to say later on that we have another five or ten thousand dollars worth of costs, but seventy-five maybe on the high end and fifty-five or fifty is on the low end. So, it will probably be around fifty-five or in the neighborhood. So, you are looking at a twenty thousand, roughly twenty thousand dollar reduction from those figures we were discussing the other night. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I guess my confusion Paul, that came the other night, was it shows one thirty five, one thirty five then it jumps to three '0 six and you have said fifty five thousand tonight. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-Well, the one thirty five is still there. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Understood. A TTONEY PAUL PONTIFF-That figure doesn't change that is the architects fee and that doesn't change. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I understand that, so if you are talking one thirty five and fifty-five somehow that does not make three hundred and six. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-No, but the other figures that are in that, what was categorized as soft costs the other night are now on construction costs or building costs or site improvement costs where they belong. See, when we look at the original proposed costs of this project it was a million eight hundred and seventy five thousand dollars. The revised costs pursuant to the figures that the architect has given us is two million one hundred and fifty two thousand eight hundred and three dollars. Two million one fifty two eight '0 three. The difference, the increase is two hundred and seventy seven thousand eight hundred and three dollars. Now, if! adjust that figure by this difference in the soft costs that I just talked about a few minutes ago, bring us down to about two hundred and fifty eight thousand dollars, two fifty eight two twenty two. Now, originally the bank financing was to be a million four hundred and twenty five thousand dollars, Evergreen Bank financing. The increase of two fifty eight tw twenty two, increases that financing to a million six hundred and eighty three thousand two twenty two, we have been approved in January 2000 for a million seven fifty, we are still well under a million seven fifty. I wanted to point out that I reviewed Henry's material that you received tonight and if I understand it correctly and Henry will correct me if I don't. It seems to me that Henry is trying to give you a perspective of the over all costs of the project rather than just this increase that we are now talking about between what we discussed previously and what we are talking about tonight. I want to make sure that everybody understands that those figures that Henry provided are over all costs for the entire project vs an ordinary budget that you might expect. I did not want that to be misinterpreted. Two things I do want to point out if I can find my notes, and Mike O'Connell pointed this out to me tonight, originally the cost of the project based upon the twenty year amortization financing was 0 be about eight point seven percent of the total budget. Now, based upon the thirty year financing it will be five point nine percent of the total budget. So, that is the change in the amortization from the twenty-year to a thirty-year amortization. That reduces that tax rate by thirty two percent. Now, if those figures are not correct, Henry will correct me, but that is what Mike and I discussed tonight. So, you ought to be aware of that. I understand that the over all cost of the project at two million one hundred and fifty two thousand dollars is a substantial cost, I do want to point out however, that this fire house needs to be built. You got an additional and this is something that maybe Chip should talk about rather than me, but I just realized coming here tonight that you have an additional exposure at Hiland which is a substantial exposure and if this company doesn't have the facilities to deal with the problems that might exist there then in the long run the town is being short sighted. So,! think in terms of the costs there is cost involved if we do not move rather quickly the costs are going to increase as Dick Jones indicated the other night there is no question about that. The longer it takes then we are into winter construction and that makes even things more difficult. I should point out that if the Board wants to talk about the possibility of making some other adjustments visa-vie the general contract outside of this project I think we can discuss that in order to make the project go and I think that is important. I think we need to think about that, because this project need to go and I think you all believe that it needs to go. But, I think we need to deal with it the best way we can. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I guess, as we are sitting here I am thinking and you probably can smell it, but, what would these numbers look like Henry if we took this project with the one point seven five that was approved. I would like to take those numbers with this kind of a formula and compare them, I am certainly sure it is going to be higher but how much higher is what I am wondering. You know what I mean, with the one point seven five if you do it that way and then we already have the numbers for two point one, I guess what would be the difference in these numbers, because what we are doing is comparing two point one to what we have now but not keeping in mind that we have one point seven five already approved. COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-You do not have one point seven five approved from the Town you have a total debt of one point seven five less the two hundred thousand you borrowed from another source. Well, now we are back up to the one seventy five with the two hundred that was for twenty years, so we can look at this incrementally, and you have got you are stacking nickels on top of dimes. I approach this from the point of view of what is this project cost, this is when you close the door, what is it costing. We can go back and look at it the other way if that is what you want, nobody made that request before. COUNCILMAN BREWER-No, I understand that and I just happen to think of it right now, I mean we are looking at these huge numbers and we are saying gees seventy two percent, fifty nine percent, sixty six percent but then the effect on the tax rate is five point six percent, but what is it going to be if they walked out of here tonight and said we will do it for what we are approved for, I guess is my question? ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-Essentially we were approved for financing at one point seven five, one point seven five '0. That is the original resolution that was adopted approving financing of a million seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars. With the understanding that there were two off sets against that. There was a contribution by the Town for soft costs of a hundred thousand dollars and a contribution based upon an exchange where the town was going to get something in consideration for another hundred and fifty thousand dollars so you are talking about two hundred and fifty thousand as an off set against or as part of a total financing costs. COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-And the two hundred thousand dollars that was borrowed from another source, because that was not contemplated, that was neither disclosed nor contemplated at the time that other resolution was done. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-You mean the USDA financing? COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-The USDA financing. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-That is a guarantee but I am not sure that, that is a substantial; well it is a thirteen thousand dollar cost. COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-It is debt service that the contract required and that was not contemplated at the time, I am not trying to argue whether they should have done that or not I am saying, that is an off set. The original resolution was not a hundred and seventy, a million seven fifty on top of two hundred thousand. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF -Do you have any comment about that Mike? UNKNOWN MIKE-That is accurate. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-That is accurate. Ok. That is fine. COUNCILMAN STEC-Henry, Paul hit on something that actually I was starting to think about, what is, what would the debt service be on the additional two fifty eight or two seventy seven that we are talking about, thousand dollars over the course of a thirty year mortgage how much is that a year? The quarter of a million dollar more that we are borrowing spread out over thirty years what is the annual increase in the amount that we are talking about borrowing? COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-That is a good question, I would love to have the opportunity to answer, I am not prepared to answer. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-That is the seventeen thousand dollar figure. COUNCILMAN STEC-Because, I think, I mean, the question really becomes one of priorities and I am thinking what I am starting to hear from the Fire Company or at least from Paul was you know, perhaps to make the project go we look at the rest of the budget. We open the whole budget up and say hey, you know, we are going to push the project that means that we are going to tighten the belt on the operating expenses to the tune of fifteen, seventeen grand per year. Take the ten percent hit in the budget live with it and then start from there and you know next time we go to the contract it is three percent, so they take the hit in the operating side, they buy, you know I mean, you know well we remember we were making fun of the previous board saying well how many cases of soda and how many pairs of gloves to do you loose, you go through? You pass it onto the membership that hey we have got to bite this bullet here and you know we throttle back on you know, how many council rakes do we need and how many Indian tnks can we steal from the State and you know steal more and buy less, you know, just say hey, we are going to have to tighten the belt here because the fire house is a bigger priority to us then the increases that we fought for, you didn't fight for but, that you were given last year in the operating budget. That way the happy taxpayer says, all right, they held the line here on spending because the taxpayer doesn't care where it is spent, they want two things. They want you to be there when you need them with the right tools and they do not want to spend any more than they have to for it. So, I think that if we pushed some of the money out of the operating budget and into this project that might be a solution to the problem. I think the perception of another quarter million dollars on to this project just leaves a bad taste in a lot of people's mouth and I think that if we can come to some other arrangement that might make everyone happy. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-I think it makes sense to look at it from a budget perspective on an annual basis rather than looking at an over all number because when you look at the over all number people get out of line with that. I mean all of you read the Editorial in the paper today and when you read that it sounds really bad. Like you know, you guys are giving away the store here and you have given away the store to every fire company in the Town of Queensbury and that is not an accurate statement. The statement is that you provided a service to the community which needs to be provided and you have been very diligent about trying to monitor the costs of doing that and that is what you are doing now. I see no reason why that shouldn't be done at this point in time. Maybe the budget is the way to deal with it. I do not think the Fire Company has a particular problem with that, if we sit down and try and iron that out. COUNCILMAN STEC-I am hearing that you are willing to trade hoses for mortar and I think that is something that that public could probably live with. Because you are right I think the public is of two minds in this, you have a lot of people out there that you know, that are very mindful of the fact that this is a volunteer service, that these people give a lot of their time. I for one cannot see you know, asking them with all the OSHA training and all the requirements that are out there by the State, the things that have happened with the State over the year pushing more and more responsibility for financing and back onto the local communities for fire fighting. All the training that they have to receive the late hours, the last thing I think should happen is you have a fire, ask the volunteer to go pan handle on the street corner for change. So, I think a lot of people see that, that value that thank God we don't have a payroll to worry about and our investment is in apparatus and not in payroll. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I agree with a lot of the points that you made but I am not so sure that this particular public is keeping mindful of that anymore. COUNCILMAN STEC-Well, that is why I am thinking out loud here, the flip side of the coin and the coin that you saw in the paper here and you know, people that are satisfied don't call to tell you they are satisfied you get the phone calls from the people that are not satisfied. You have had Board Members here before that have taken the other perspective that gees you are giving away the store and I think that there are pockets of a lot of both of these in the community. But, I think that, you know that the willingness to say we might be able to trim the rest of the budget in order to make, off set this increase. I think both sides can see a fairness in that. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I think that is a very good point. Henry do you have any idea what the over all assessed value is in the Town total, commercial, residential, industrial the whole shooting match? SUPERVISOR BROWER-Over a billion dollars. COMPTROLLER HESS-one point eight. TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-one point six seven, we looked it up for Crandall Library. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-One point six seven billion, I see here in my faithfully reported building department report here that we have added nearly seventeen million during the first six months of this year alone. What is the over all fire district budget for all the fire companies combined? I know I have it but SUPERVISOR BROWER-Two point two million. COUNCILMAN STEC-It is a little over two million. COMPTROLLER HESS-Actually the includes the EMS, it is about one point eight COUNCILMAN STEC-We are still under the city, we are talking payroll here, that is the difference. But, I mean I think if you COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I will point out, I want to take issue with this editorial here and I see there is a reporter in the front row and I truly hope that he brings this message back because I would write a letter but I do not think it would do any good quite frankly. I will say I have never seen an editorial staff that is so uninformed, uneducated, and willing to do thorough diligent research before they write the crap that they write and stir the public up and really demonstrate a thorough lack of responsibility as an editorial board and how they shape the mind set of the public. I am not just, no, I am not just SUPERVISOR BROWER-You are a bit out of or, you are a bit off the topic of the tonight's discussion. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-No, I am not off the topic, Dennis. SUPERVISOR BROWER-I think you are. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Well I do not think that I am. All we are doing is appealing to the worst side of the public's opinion on things in the interest of selling newspapers for a profit and I think it is time that they start taking some responsibility at least to the extent of doing some thorough investigative reporting before they take a stand and stir a lot of people up. Because I will point out that we are in a township that has more than doubled its population in the last thirty years and we have an assessed value of one point six seven billion dollars and we are comparing to a city that is paying more for a far less assessed value. You cannot have these types of growth in population, housing units, assessed value and expect to mark time with your emergency services. I think it is a justly unfair shot at this town board and it is just very short sighted. COUNCILMAN STEC-Well I will help Jim get back on track by closing by saying make sure that you take back to your posse there the other shoe is going to drop in a couple of weeks when we get the printed audit back on the car fleet. So tell them to stand by for ... COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I am tired of sitting by and having this Board do diligent work and try and do the right thing and be privy to a lot more details and a lot more information on subject matter and then have this sensationalistic hyper bowl come out about, it is just COUNCILMAN STEC-So, anyways, back to SUPERVISOR BROWER-Henry can I ask you a question please? Resolution 1.2 this evening, is a resolution approving and incurring of financial obligation for the new firehouse by Bay Ridge Volunteer Fire Co. Inc. That is not I assume that is not simply the amendment they are looking for, for additional funds but that's for the whole bowl of wax, is that correct? COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-This recasts SUPERVISOR BROWER-So, that is an appropriation? COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-Well, the contract says that they have to come and get approval for these kinds of projects, the approval that was given in January of this year, I guess it was, when it was done, was for an amount of money for twenty years to do this project, conceptual approval. Since that time the amount has changed the structure of the financing has changed and this reflects the deal as it's struck today, what the Fire Company is proposing today. With the two hundred thousand from the revolving loan fund and the revised plan of financing from Evergreen Bank. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-With the increased costs Henry. COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-Just the way that they gave it to me. COUNCILMAN STEC-Paul are you saying, I do not know if you were prepared to go into that any further, but, I mean and I do not mean to put you ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-You mean as to the budget? COUNCILMAN STEC- The current budget if we said that to swing the deal could you squeeze twenty grand out of your operating budget? ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-I will let Chip address that, because I think he has thought about it. CHIEF CHIP MELLON -We have talked about ways to work within our budget to get this project to move forward because as Paul has mentioned we really feel that we have to move forward with it we cannot delay it any longer, for reasons which we mentioned probably for the last since, January 24, year 2000, we have been here. With that in mind we have looked at our budget and feel that if we have to we could reduce the 2002 proposed budget by at least fifty percent of the difference of the seven, seventeen thousand and if we have to go further to get the project done we are going to have to do it, because we really believe sincerely that we need to do this project. COUNCILMAN STEC-Do you have any, again, I mean that I know that we didn't bill this to you as hey, lets come in and open the books on everything but, and I do not have the numbers in front of me and I guess that Henry doesn't have them at his finger tips, but I do not know what your upcoming next few year vehicle, and I hesitate to say this because, I think, you in the audience here a couple of weeks ago when we talked about West Glens Falls truck and I was the guy that waived the MMA report and quoted from it and so was Tim, but could we, to help you get to that seventeen or twenty thousand dollar mark, is there any way you can stretch. I do not know what the upcoming vehicle replacement looks like if you have anything in the hopper the next three or four years that you could say you know what we have got one coming up in three years but if we take extra good care of it and we take care of it, it will make it four or five years and we might be able to push that off. Then we get into the vehicle fund where ay hey we maybe able to pop that forty down to thirty. COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-I would just like to say if you tap into the vehicle fund that is not a true savings to the town because that is under funded anyway. I think reducing that to pay for the building is not a true savings it is only a, it is creative accounting. COUNCILMAN STEC- Y ou are right. To push off a purchase that might be up coming or there is going to be a debate about you know the next ladder truck, we are going to be right back here. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-As I see this operating budget, where the original two thousand one is one ninety seven five seventy-six is that where we are at Henry? Is that what we are saying here, two thousand one the operating budget? COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-The operating budget 200 I is four fifty one, one fifty six. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-And then as we get into 2002 amended I am seeing fifteen thousand dollars for construction utilities isn't that just a, is that strictly limited to utilities during construction? Is that how that is defined? The very last line item under operating expenses? COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-Yes. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-So that is a one time, that will not be there in 2003, correct? COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-That is correct. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-So, there is fifteen grand and then we already heard that six thousand dollars the architect is saying that the building will operate at thirteen thousand for utilities, heating and cooling with some propane add back but we are in at nineteen there is another four or five, I mean so just between those two alone you are looking at a twenty thousand dollar difference in 2003, if the building is energy efficient as projected and we are not, obviously going to have any construction utility charge. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-You should also be aware as part of this whole picture that and I think it is important because every little piece counts that they were originally going to hire some one to be clerk of the works which would have cost them around sixteen grand and the Architect has offered to provide that service under his existing contract, if I am speaking correctly. Ok. That is not in your budget it doesn't appear there in the costs but it is something that was considered going in and a way to save the dollars that we are talking about. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Are there any additional vehicles expected for 2002, Chip? Or anything that would be burn more gas? COUNCILMAN TURNER-Jim, right here? CHIEF CHIP MELLON-No. I kind of answered Dan's question that goes here a couple of minutes ago as far as apparatus purchases in the future, the next two pieces of apparatus we have a tanker due to be replaced in 2005 and an engine due to be replaced in 2008. Without going back to our committee I cannot give you a concrete yes or no answer as to length of time for replacement, but I can basically give you this. It is something certainly that we are more than willing to consider but I would just like to throw one more piece of information out, in the year 2000, we were scheduled to replace our brush truck which if you remember we did here several months ago, that truck hopefully is going to be going into service next week. The projected replacement costs originally is one hundred and five thousand dollars, we are able to do that truck at sixty thousand so there is a forty five thousand dollar, basically it is a savings, yes it goes into the truck replacement fund but down the line that may help to off set sme of the deficient funds in there. So, I just wanted to bring that out. COUNCILMAN BREWER-What happens with that sixty thousand? CHIEF CHIP MELLON-That sixty thousand comes out of the truck replacement fund. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-But that is a general fund for the over all COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-That is sort of an under funded reserve for equipment, so it has no effect on the operating budget. CHIEF CHIP MELLON-Basically we didn't spend as much as we originally anticipated. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-What do you guys typically incur, because I like Dan's idea about this operating line item and a means to make up that debt service there. COUNCILMAN STEC-Cut the seventeen and adjust from there, it will be gone for thirty years. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-A three thousand dollar projected increase for fuel but almost three thousand dollars for vehicle but I just heard that there is no anticipated new vehicles or more or vehicles that are going to burn more gas. So, there is three thousand dollars in there that is extra. I know that you are trying to put some in, if you have an unusual amount of calls but, that is almost on a percentage basis that is quite an increase over forty seven hundred going to seventy five hundred. I know the other thing, professional fees, I thought I remembered 200 I we had an inordinate amount of professional fees because we were in a design mode on the building. Is there any chance, I know you have your accounting fees come out of there probably and obviously your Attorney fees but, was there an inordinate high amount there for architectural design and things that would not necessarily carry forward or is that, it is projected at six thousand I see and then it goes to eight. It has gone from six to eight. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-Eight in the year 2002, Jim you are saying? COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Yea, I thought we had, I thought even the six thousand number in 2001 was reflecting some one time design fees while the building was in, but I am not sure. CHIEF CHIP MELLON-It may very well be, I cannot honestly give you that answer. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I know you probably have an annual cost you could count on for your audits, you need that obviously and then you got an annual cost at some point, you know you access Paul for various things, but I just don't I would like to know the justification behind it. Again on a percentage basis that is a thirty percent increase in professional fees in that one line item and I without justification or explanation there might be some savings there too. COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-I would just like to make a comment that might save some talk about the different line items, when you are talking about the operating expenses they are put in there so that, at budget time you have some sense of what the need is so you can evaluate the need, but for accounting purposes they get, we analyze them together. In other words the fire company has total latitude to spend money in any of those line items that they want without any justification. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I remember going through that last budget time. COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-If it was the Town Board and the Fire Companies agreement to just strike an amount from that all you have to do is put a negative amount an adjustment and put an amount in there. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I am just saying that it appears without having gone through this is detail and having justification that the one ninety two nine hundred in 2002 looks like there is ample opportunity without really cutting into your fundamental needs of making up that seventeen. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF -So the question then becomes if I understand Henry correctly, that it doesn't matter where it falls in those categories as long as it is in that operating expenses. COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-You could put a line under construction utilities and put agreed on adjustment, put a negative number in and that would satisfy my requirements. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-That deals with the bottom line. COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-Yes. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Essentially, what we are saying Paul, is that one ninety two nine, is a mutually agreed upon number and then we kind of having of done it just one time, we kind of quizzed the companies about what goes into all those subsets to that line item but it is really up to you in terms of your individual needs. COUNCILMAN STEC-Ifwe can make that one seventy five COUNCILMAN MARTIN-That would be great. COUNCILMAN STEC-that covers the increase. Along the vein although outside of your control, thinking bigger picture here, because when you get your tax bill at home it has everything in it, it has got the County in it, it has got the Town in it, it has a lot of things in it besides the fire rate. I remember a couple of months ago we did talk about, I know that Jim, was in the paper very hesitant on this but you know, we are talking about an increase here that might be seven, eight cents on the fire rate but we are talking about dropping an eighteen and a half cents general fund rate. As far as the happy home owner that gets the tax bill you know, if we say hey, we as our part can resolve to say that we are going to make sure that we eliminate that property tax so that will off set, more than off set any increase in the fire rate. Because, we did look into could we eliminate or could we use some of this five and half million dollar surplus to fund a project like this in a fire district and apparently the anser we got back is no. Because we have fire projection district and not a fire district and the law says that we could if we were a fire district and beyond of the loss of the word protection what the difference is that is question for an attorney. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-I will not even get into it. COUNCILMAN STEC-Apparently, you know, previous Town Supervisor who was very involved in fire and ems believed he could. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-You might be on to something what we could say as we approach this budget year is that you take the general tax rate and the fire tax rate and come up with a total that we had in 200 I and just say that total combined rate we are going to try and hold the line on it for 2002 and it requires a corresponding adjustment in the general fund rate. COUNCILMAN BREWER-It would reduce it actually. COUNCILMAN STEC-Well it should go down if we hold the line everywhere else, the total tax rate which is what the home owners sees. Something is going to be the biggest part of your budget? You know that is just a fact of life and I suppose COUNCILMAN MARTIN-My point in going off on like I did a few minutes ago is you just cannot sit here and the face of you know five and ten percent increases in population in a decade and expect you are going to hold the line on emergency services and every other thing the town has, and you just cannot figure population in this community because we have an exponential growth rate in commercial value. When the mall expands and Wal Marts build and Super K Mart is built and Hiland Park builds a senior housing center in the center of their district with how many hundred of units are you going to have in that one complex alone? I mean you just cannot have those kind of growth happenings and expect well we are going to have to hold the line on fire service. That is what makes me very angry about this editorial. COUNCILMAN STEC-Well, Jim to add, to continue the direction I was heading with the and again this is off the subject of the fire company but I had, Henry did me a favor of running the numbers of over the past seven years what our estimated sales tax revenue were at budget time and at the end of the year you found out how much you actually collect, granted you are subject to some variability, but, over the last four years we have run a cumulative total from the four years of three point nine million dollars. The last two years were over a million dollars underestimated of what the actual revenue came out so. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Then you will get me off on another editorial in the paper about our irresponsibility in the town tax rate. What drives this town fiscal budget is sales tax revenue and I got an editorial board there telling me about the real property tax. COUNCILMAN STEC-So, I think I guess what I am saying, I think that we can easily hold the line on taxes by realizing that, hey, our sales tax. COUNCILMAN BREWER-You can't, you can't always, it is like counting on interest at the bank you cannot always, there may be bad years. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Right, that is true. COUNCILMAN BREWER-So, you cannot say that we are going to be under estimating a million every year. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Tim, if you look at the cumulative sales tax revenue in each year COUNCILMAN BREWER-I understand that. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-If you want to go back even further than what Dan did, you will see a very healthy growth, because when I was here at the Town I remember the Town going through the budget and it was four million dollars was a projected sales tax revenue, how much was it this past year? COUNCILMAN BREWER-It was five point two. COUNCILMAN STEC-Last year we estimated five point two and we actually came in at six point three. With the exception of 1995 you have seen a steady increase in our sales tax revenue. So, I guess what I am saying is that you know, there is a lot of perception in smoking mirrors and well is there actually a problem? Your spending is going to go up on some places it is not going to go up in others but the taxpayer wants what is my bottom line. That is what they pay every month. You know between, I think we need to hold the fire company to task and say hey, you are going to increase by seventeen grand a year you got to cut seventeen grand out so that way this increase is a break even but on top of that I think we have other options in order, what is the final tax rate. I think if we eliminate the property tax there is your eighteen and a half cents a thousand right there and that more than off sets any increase in the fire rate. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I talked about earlier with Chip and other people I have talked to about it, everybody gets this big fear that our taxes are going up ten percent but what they do not realize is it is ten percent of a dollar forty six it is not ten percent of all the taxes they pay. So if we are talking ten percent of a dollar forty-six we are talking about twelve cents. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I would like to go to other like communities with an assessed valuation of one point six seven billion dollars town wide and is providing fire district coverage for two point two million dollars and see how you compare. We have got this Statewide analysis on vehicle fleets done by the paper but they failed to make that kind of analysis. COUNCILMAN STEC-I think we are boring our guests at the table but I think COUNCILMAN BREWER-We are preaching at the choir. COUNCILMAN STEC-well, I think, I am seeing some head nodding I do not think we are ready to go smooth with this tonight but I am hearing that the fire company says that you think that you can squeeze out seventeen grand out of the bottom line of the operating budget. Then in return for seventeen grand in this increase and proceed with the project. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I say we go ahead with that contingent upon sitting down with the fire company and finding the seventeen. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-We can do that right now if you are prepared to do that. COUNCILMAN STEC-Well our Attorney is not here. I do not know, this sounds like something, or maybe Henry can answer, this sounds like, do we need ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-I do not think it is a legal question. COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-I do not know, this is a public hearing, this is not a workshop, it is a public hearing for the public to hear what is going on, I think you could do that whether Counsel would say you should have you open a public hearing and provide the public the numbers so that they can evaluate what you are doing I do not know what he would say he is not here. I raise that question earlier today and I raised it to the board, this public hearing was opened on Monday none of this information being available for the public for review. COUNCILMAN STEC-A similar question came up Monday night, as far as was it thoroughly advertised and Paul will recall, basically what Bob said was, that the public hearing notice did not give any of the details it just said that we reopened the contract. COUNCILMAN BREWER-It did not say dollars and cents. COUNCILMAN STEC-Right, I am sure that we, I am not saying that what you are saying isn't prudent but is it required, I do not think . COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-That is the thing, I cannot tell you what is required I just asked you look and see whether you think it is prudent or not. COUNCILMAN BREWER-What would happen and this question is for you Paul, what would happen if we went away tonight and said we are going to do this and we are going to make adjustments and you proceed with what you are doing, it does not stop anything does it? Suppose we came in here tonight and said you got one seven five and that is it and see you later what would you do? COUNCILMAN STEC-Ifwe said hey, we already committed to a number unanimously January 24th last year, you know that is what you got to work with would you scrap the project or what would you do? COUNCILMAN BREWER-Well, maybe that is not a fair question. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Yea, that is not a very fair question. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Walking away from here tonight knowing that we are going to find the seventeen thousand dollars somewhere COUNCILMAN STEC-Somehow. COUNCILMAN BREWER-can you proceed? ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-Well, how can we be sure of that without a resolution approving the amendment to the contract? COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-You have two resolutions on the table, one resolution is not an obstacle, this is ...because the language in the resolution to approve the amended project is not at risk here you can do that, the resolution to change the contract I think you need it goes to the contract. COUNCILMAN STEC-I see what you are saying, we could approve this tonight and then come back in two weeks and adjust the other, adjust with another resolution. COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-The person who has a problem with that is the bank. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-The bank wants to feel secure that they, when they loan the money that there is going to be the opportunity for the fire company to make the payments on the loan and that is really what they are looking for. COUNCILMAN STEC-What I am understanding Henry is saying that if we approve both of these resolutions tonight, then we are saying what we are going, what we are agreeing here without a resolution as gentlemen, in two weeks we are going to come right back and adjust the budget, we are going to negatively adjust the budget. COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-You cannot, I am not sure that accomplishes what you want. I think if you want to make a change to the budget you know what it is and you want to take seventeen thousand out of 2002 amendment the right colunm amendment you can do that and just change it and that is. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-The public hearing was to consider an amendment to the contract. COUNCILMAN STEC-I think we, I think we are ok to proceed. COUNCILMAN BREWER-How do they know sitting here tonight right now that they can come up with seventeen out of any certain line item? ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-We do not need to do that. COUNCILMAN STEC-All they know is the bottom line this is the only number. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-We look at the whole category and we say ok we can take two grand out of here we take three grand out of there we take four out of here it does not matter where it comes out of in that operating expense category. COUNCILMAN STEC-We do not care ifis out or gloves or out of hoses or out of gas or whatever but make it go away. CHIEF CHIP MELLON-You are exactly right. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-If he feel comfortable COUNCILMAN STEC-Well that is what we said back in January when we negotiated these contracts we sat down as a Board and we said we do not care how many cases of soda we want to know how much money do you need to cover this and we do not know if it is four thousand in this line item and three thousand in that or three thousand in this and four thousand in that? We just said COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I think we ought to just leave here like Henry just said and just say that the operating budget for 2002 is going to be one seventy five. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-That is an amendment to the contract. That is what the public hearing is for. COUNCILMAN STEC-Right, we can do that. COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I think we are under the legal boundaries of our notice and we are being prudent. COUNCILMAN STEC-Right. And then the paper can either say we went ahead and blindly spent two point one million or they can accurately report that we kept the net the same in the budget, the budget has not changed. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-The figure would be one seventy five nine. COUNCILMAN STEC-I think I know how it will read tomorrow. COUNCILMAN BREWER-One seventy five nine? ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-I mean in that category. But, if the Chief...yes one seventy five nine, if the Chief feels that he can accomplish that and he has sufficient justification from his officers to do that then I think that is something that we are ready to address tonight if the Board is willing to address that. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Can you do that Chip? ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-And the President is here also. CHIEF CHIP MELLON-And we both agree to that. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Who is the President? CHIEF CHIP MELLON-Chuck Mellon. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-The old man. COUNCILMAN STEC-I got one of them. The appeal from, you know, like I said you got two view points and the opposing view point is you got to hold the line on the fire company, well I think this does that. This says hey, you need seventeen more grand well we are going to take seventeen more grand from the operating to go for the capital, we are still, we are net break even, we have held up the commitment that we made last January you said loud and clear this is the number one priority we are willing to make those other sacrifices. I suppose the nay sayer could go the extra step and say well gee if you could find seventeen grand out of that budget what were you guys doing last January, but you know what, we will bit that bullet. ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-I just want to ask one question of the banker, would that satisfy your situation Mike? ATTORNEY PAUL PONTIFF-Ok. COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-It does not affect the debt service which is really what you interest was. MIKE (BANKER)-I am walking out knowing that there is one seventeen available, right. COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-I beg your pardon MIKE (BANKER)- The one seventeen will be available to off set by reducing the operating... SUPERVISOR BROWER-Paul and Chip if I could ask you guys to vacate the microphone for a moment. I would again like to ask if there is anyone here that would like to speak regarding this public hearing this evening, in the audience? This is your opportunity. Ok. Seeing none. I have got to say a few words. I truly believe volunteer fire men are the epitome of public service; represent the epitome of public service. I told Chip Mellon not too many weeks ago that the hardest decision I have had to make as Supervisor was a decision I made to approve a one point seven five million dollar fire house, because of a number of factors. Principally, I did not think I was concerned about the financial impact to the Town, I still have that concern. It has been exacerbated as a result of the increase in the projected cost of building this firehouse. The Board certainly has been if anything sympathetic to the needs of fire companies. As a matter of fact almost to a fault. Our contracts that we signed with the Fireand EMS services did not preclude purchase of additional vehicles, additional vehicles were purchased by one company. The rest of the companies honored their obligation or their, the Board expectations and did not pursue additional vehicles. As a matter of fact North Queensbury did not even buy one, they used the money for another purpose. However, it was an increase in the expectations of companies that was met by the Town Board. In 1988 Bay Ridge came to the Town and requested a second fire station that was a mere thirteen years ago. It reminds me of the recent truck West Glens Falls purchased or came to request and they wanted to replace a fire truck that was thirteen years old, the new truck was projected at four hundred and thirty thousand dollars. Fortunately the new truck came in at four hundred and two thousand dollars as of Monday's report from the Fire Service. But, none the less I had to question is there need to replace a thirteen year old fire truck? I have to look at the big picture ofth Town in regards to the Fire and EMS services. Granted every other company has had a newer station built in recent years, previous administrations. However, we are involved in the Exit 18 the Corinth Road Corridor, we plan on you know, hopefully putting in a connector road, there is a possibility we may have, mayor may not have to relocate a rescue squad, that is going to be a new building. That is going to increase our Fire and EMS rates. You might say what does that have to do with our proposal well it doesn't but it is cumulative effect. I had to ask myself the hard question over the past weekend and today and the hard question I kept asking myself is if we deny this fire station will fire protection in the Town of Queensbury be seriously jeopardized? The answer I kept coming up with was no. Now I may be dead wrong, but you know what I have got to vote my gut and I cannot support either resolution 1.1 or 1.2 this evening. That is all I have to say. Seeing that there is no additional public comnmt I would like to close the public hearing on the Bay Ridge Fire Station. Clerk read the introduction to the proposed resolution No. 289.. COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS-I am going to offer an amendment (to agreement )that you talked about on page 8 item A (2) where it says 192,900 to be amended to 175,900 the last line of the paragraph it says 510,628 is going to be changed to 493,628 and make the corresponding changes on Exhibit A (Councilman Martin, introduced and seconded by Councilman Stec as agreement was amended by Comptroller) Discussion held before vote: COUNCILMAN BREWER-I just want to say that I came in here tonight thinking that, let me back up one step. Last week or Monday when I saw the adjusted amount for the soft costs I probably over reacted, I over reacted simply because I could not believe that when we have been going through this for a year and a half that you could be off three hundred thousand dollars. I was shown tonight how you could. Also, I was shown tonight that there could be a compromise made that we are not going to raise the rates we are going in fact probably lower the tax rate so I feel that this amendment all it does is reaffirm the approval they got last January and that is all I will say. COUNCILMAN STEC-I would just like to echo what Tim said and to go a step further because we have discussed this over the course of the week individually and I came here tonight on the drive over saying there is no way that this is going to fly. In fact at five thirty tonight I talked to Chip on the phone I told him, I do not know how this is going to happen. But, as I stood there and sat here tonight and looked at the numbers and I listened to what Paul said and what Chip said what we are doing we are keeping the net increase is zero. We committed to a number back in January that number got bigger and we were able to find other places to cut, you are saying that you did everything that you could to cut in the building so we went to the next part of the budget, we went to the operating budget and we are walking out of here with a zero increase. Like I said I think Dennis and other people are a little surprised because, I did, I said, there was no way that this is going to happen but you know, I think SUPERVISOR BROWER-You have got to vote you heart, Danny and that is fine. COUNCILMAN STEC-Well and that's just it, I feel you have to vote your gut and there has been times that I haven't and I regret them and I think this is the right thing to do. This is the last fire company, fire house that we have to build hopefully for fifty years and I want to be able to look a developer in the eye when a developer comes to town with a project and says I want to do this and I want to do that and I am reading between the lines I want to put a lot of money in my pocket. I want to point to these firehouses and I am going to say this is what our public buildings look like. This is what we want our community to look like, this is how we value public safety here, this is how we value our neighborhoods here and we want to do quality work and I encouraged that the fire company was able to work with us and we are walking out of here with a zero increase. It is the same as if we would have voted no. No would have meant no increase, this means no increase, so you know a few less pairs of gloves a ew fewer hoses. Hopefully the newspaper will not suggest that you start buying used fire equipment you know or maybe we will start selling off our cars or whatever. The other shoe is going to drop there, but you know like I said, I did, I walked in here tonight I was thinking, man this is going to get shot down five '0 but or maybe four one but I think that compromise that we reached here is a good one for the community I think everyone wins. I know where Dennis is coming from and I certainly understand. (vote taken) RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AMENDMENT TO AGREEMENT BETWEEN TOWN OF QUEENSBURY AND BAY RIDGE VOLUNTEER FIRE COMPANY, INC. RESOLUTION NO.: 289.2001 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. James Martin WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board previously authorized an Agreement dated March 24, 2000 between the Town and the Bay Ridge Volunteer Fire Company (Fire Company) for fire protection services, and WHEREAS, as part of the March 24,2000 Agreement, the Town agreed that it would consider revising the Agreement specifically for the purpose of adjusting any payments that the Town and Fire Company both agreed in writing were reasonable to enable the Fire Company to construct a new fire station, and WHEREAS, the Town Board conducted a public hearing on May 21st, 2001 and by Resolution No.: 217.2001 approved an amended Agreement with the Fire Company, and WHEREAS, the Fire Company has requested to further amend the Fire Agreement in order to increase Year 2000 debt service expenses to $181,228 and to reallocate other expense items as a result of a change in the Fire company's construction schedule for its proposed new fire station, and WHEREAS, New York State Town Law ~ 184 provides that the Town and Fire Company by mutual consent after public hearing may amend the Agreement for fire protection services provided it is in the public interest to do so, and WHEREAS, on July 9th and July 12th, 2001, the Town Board held duly noticed public hearings concerning the proposed amended Agreement, and WHEREAS, a copy of the proposed amended Agreement, together with a revised budget Exhibit A, have been presented at this meeting and is in form acceptable to Town Counsel, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby determines that it is in the public's best interest to amend the existing Agreement between the Town of Queensbury and the Bay Ridge Volunteer Fire Company, Inc. and hereby approves the amended Agreement with the Fire Company substantially in the form presented at this meeting and as set forth in the preambles of this Resolution, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Board shall not and does not by this Resolution create or intend to create any assumption on the part of the Town of Queensbury of any obligation or liability for the Fire Company's financing, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Board authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to execute the amended Agreement and take such other and further action as may be necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution. Duly adopted this 12th day of July, 2001, by the following vote: AYES Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer NOES Mr. Brower ABSENT: None RESOLUTION APPROVING INCURRING OF FINANCIAL OBLIGATION OF NEW FIREHOUSE BY BAY RIDGE VOLUNTEER FIRE COMPANY, INC. RESOLUTION NO.: 290. 2001 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. James Martin WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury and the Bay Ridge Volunteer Fire Company, Inc. (Fire Company) previously contracted for fire protection services and such Agreement is in full force and effect, and WHEREAS, the Agreement sets forth a number of terms and conditions, including an agreement that the Fire Company will not purchase or enter into any binding contract to purchase any piece of apparatus, equipment, vehicles, real property, or make any improvements that would require the Fire Company to acquire a loan or mortgage without prior approval of the Queensbury Town Board, and WHEREAS, on January 24th, 2000, the Town Board adopted Resolution No.: 43, 2000 authorizing the incurring of debt by the Fire Company concerning construction of a new firehouse on he east side of Bay Road between the intersections of Old Bay Road and Old Bay Road, and WHEREAS, the Fire Company has presented to the Town Board an amended proposal concerning construction of the new firehouse for an amount not to exceed $2,152,803 and proposes to finance the construction project through tax-exempt financing provided under ~ 14 7(f) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended, and WHEREAS, the Fire Company is negotiating with Evergreen Bank to enter into a financing agreement for the amount of $1,702,803 for 30 years at a market rate expected to be approximately 5.5% for the first five years; and $200,000 from a New York State Revolving Loan at 2.5% for 20 years and that these financing arrangements are intended to qualify as tax-exempt under ~147(f) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 as amended, and WHEREAS, in accordance with ~ 14 7(f) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended, the Fire Company has requested that the Town Board conduct a public hearing to authorize approval of the financing to comply with the statutory requirements, and WHEREAS, on July 9th and July 12th, 2001, the Town Board held the required public hearings, all interested persons were heard and the Town Board now wishes to approve the amended construction project and financing as requested by the Fire Company, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves the incurring on the part of the Bay Ridge Volunteer Fire Company, Inc. of financial obligations in the maximum, aggregate principal amount of $2,152,803 in accordance with tax-exempt financing provided pursuant to ~147(f) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended, provided, however, that the Town Board shall not and does not by this Resolution create or intend to create any assumption on the part of the Town of Queensbury of any obligation or liability for the financing. Duly adopted this 12th day of July, 2001, by the following vote: AYES Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin NOES Mr. Brower ABSENT: None Discussion held after vote: Councilman Brewer-In closing I will say that I think we just made a deal with the City for sewer and we got a pretty good deal out of it and we took care of the city I think we ought to be taking care of Queensbury too. Councilman Stec-I agree. RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING PURCHASE ORDER FOR POWEREDGE SERVER FROM DELL COMPUTER RESOLUTION NO.: 291. 2001 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. James Martin WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board previously adopted purchasing procedures which require that the Town Board must approve any purchase in an amount of $5,000 or greater up to New York State bidding limits, and WHEREAS, the Computer Technology Coordinator has advised the Town Board that it is necessary for the Town to purchase a new computer server and recommends that the Town Board authorize the purchase of a Dell Poweredge Server 4400 from Dell Computer for an amount not to exceed $5,982, and WHEREAS, New York State Bidding is not required as the server to be purchased is in accordance with New York State Contract No.: PT55666, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves the purchase of one (1) Dell Poweredge Server 4400 from Dell Computer in accordance with New York State Contract No.: PT55666 for an amount not to exceed $5,982 to be paid for from Account No.: 001-1680-2031, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Computer Technology Coordinator and/or Town Comptroller's Office to take such other and further action as may be necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution. Duly adopted this 12th day of July, 2001, by the following vote: AYES Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner NOES None ABSENT: None Discussion held before vote: Bob Keenan-Director of Technology-This is an item that we budgeted for last year but it is over the five thousand dollar purchase price so we have to get approval from the Board, but it is in our budget it is a replacement for our group wise e-mail server, to replace equipment that is five years old that we have been having trouble with. RESOLUTION ADJOURNING SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 292.2001 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Special Town Board Meeting. Duly adopted this 12th day of July, 2001 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower NOES: None ABSENT: None Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury