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2003-12-08 SP Special Town Board Meeting, 12-08-2003, Mtg #58 74 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING DECEMBER 8TH, 2003 7:00 P.M. MTG #58 RES. #519-522 BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER TOWN OFFICIALS Harry Hansen, Director of Parks & Recreation Doug Irish, Recreation Commission Chairman Ralph VanDusen, W ater/W astewater Superintendent Mike Shaw, Deputy Wastewater Superintendent Helen Otte, Assessor SUPERVISOR BROWER called meeting to order... RESOLUTIONS - NONE DISCUSSIONS COMMUNITY CENTER CONSULTANT DISCUSSION - RECREATION COMMISSION MR. DOUG IRISH, Chairman reviewed with the Town Board the process of selecting a professionally licensed project consultant to assist in the design and possibly the subsequent development of a multi-recreational community center facility and recommended hiring North Country Engineering as the consultant... (submittal from the Recreation Commission on file in the Town Clerk's Office) SUPERVISOR BROWER questioned the scope of work. MR. IRISH, Chairman reviewed scope of work, noting that the consultant will help the town form a design concept, put together an RFP for the architect, review the architect bids, hire an architect, and help the architect put together the RFP's for the construction phase.... He'll work right through until the town hires a General Contractor and Project Manger... TOWN BOARD held discussion, agreed to move forward and have resolution prepared for Monday night's Regular Town Board Meeting. CHANGE ORDER FOR ROUTE 9 SEWER PROJECT - C. T. MALE MR. RALPH VANDUSEN, W ater/W astewater Superintendent and MR. MIKE SHAW, Deputy Wastewater Superintendent spoke to the Town Board regarding Change Order request for Route 9 Sewer Project and agreed to the Change Order with the amount of$48,500 and will advise counsel to prepare resolution for Monday night's Regular Town Board Meeting. EASEMENTS FOR WATER TRANSMISSION PROJECT - RALPH VANDUSEN MR. RALPH VANDUSEN, Water/Wastewater Superintendent-Noted that they conducted a public information meeting for the people who live along the route of the water transmission line and we mailed out letters to everybody along the route and along with those letters went a form that they were asked to sign giving us permission to go on their property to hand dig to do the archeological Special Town Board Meeting, 12-08-2003, Mtg #58 75 survey, and some information that we, just preliminary in fact, that we would be asking them in the near future for an easement to install a water line on their property. In some cases it's just a construction easement, in other cases it's a permanent easement and explained to them that traditionally we don't pay anything for easements, that we expect the people are benefiting from the addition of the water line in front of their home and typically a reduction in their fire insurance rates, the availability of a second source of water should their well go bad or they can switch over immediately to town water if they wish. A few people were happy with that, there were probably between twenty and twenty-five people there, I would guess at the meeting which is about half of the number of easements that we have. I would say approximately half of those that were there felt that they should be compensated in some shape or form for giving the easements.... Town Board held discussion regarding compensation versus eminent domain, types of compensation and agreed to offer compensation of the tapping installation with restoration of the property per easement as the water line is being installed. . . BAY ROAD SEWER COUNCILMAN BOOR referred to letter from Jon Lapper representing Schermerhorn stating that they are not going to accept the town's latest offer. . . . MR. MIKE SHAW, Deputy Wastewater Superintendent-They sat across the table at one time and what we thought agreed to paying a share of two hundred and eighty thousand and that's been whittled down to a point where they're paying two hundred eighteen thousand, even promised to pay that and at some reason at the ninth hour decided to back out of that. Maybe we should have a cooling off period. SUPERVISOR BROWER-I spoke with Jon Lapper and Rich is objecting to the fact that Baybridge is getting a cheaper rate then he is. .. Rich came in to my office, I talked with him for about twenty minutes then called Henry in, we talked together for another twenty minutes and I told Rich, he thinks he's being mistreated but I told him, we've dropped your price twice in these negotiation and then I went through how we came about the difference in rates with Baybridge.... He told me he doesn't care, it's the principal, not the money. He called back the next day and told me that he wasn't taking the deal and he'll wait until next year and work out a deal with the new board. I told him, you're not going to be able to connect until we have a contract in hand. I told him that I hope he knows what he's doing, this is really fair to you and every other party involved. He said, I don't, if you'll bring my rate to the same rate as Baybridge, I'll sign but not until you do... COUNCILMAN BREWER-How did our costs go down, his costs go down, Valente's costs go down. COUNCILMAN STEC-And Baybridge only go up three thousand. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Where did we make the mistake with the original price? MR. SHAW, Deputy Wastewater Superintendent-He's talking about the original map, plan and report. This whole thing started once again, Rich had made an offer, a proposal and he had used square footage as a base and he comprised a square footage method and he was going to pay two hundred eighty-one thousand. So, through the negotiations, it went back to water usage and in that negotiation, the numbers per gallon maybe changed, the rate was there certainly but he was paying much less, you think he would be happy with paying sixty thousand dollars less. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I understand him paying less and all that, but an apartment or a dwelling should be the same rate whether it's got two people or twelve people in it... MR. SHAW, Deputy Wastewater Superintendent-The original map, plan and report, if the board remembers, wanted to help Baybridge out in there problems over there, agreed to give them a break and they were paying forty thousand dollars and that was a number they said they could afford. The idea with this new negotiation is to try to keep it at the rate, within the ballpark and stay within the map, plan and report so our costs don't go over. Was Rich paying more when he originally set his map, plan and report, yes but he said he wanted to pay two eighty one, we've negotiated it down to two eighteen and he still doesn't want to pay. Special Town Board Meeting, 12-08-2003, Mtg #58 76 COUNCILMAN BREWER-I understand that but I think if we go back, you have to treat them equal, I don't care who lives there... MR. SHAW, Deputy Wastewater Superintendent-You certainly could do that, you can take the dollars and take the gallons and divide one in the other and say okay, this is what it is but it's not going to be like the map, plan and report. You're going to throw that all out the door and you're starting from scratch. COUNCILMAN BOOR-The reason why Baybridge is at what it's at is they agreed to it and that's what the map, plan and report calls for. COUNCILMAN BREWER-But they've got nothing invested Roger. SUPERVISOR BROWER-The only one who really has anything invested is Schermerhorn. But remember this, we told Rich too that in every other district extension, the party that's doing the expansion, runs the infrastructure and then turns it over to the town, we don't pay a dime. COUNCILMAN STEC-He would say what, that he wouldn't have built it the way he did, he built it that way for us. MR. SHAW, Deputy Wastewater Superintendent-Yes but every other district extension is built to our specs. So, if he was going to extend anyway, he would have built it to our specs, the same way he built it now so that argument is out the window. All the other district extensions were built to our specs to serve the district. It seems like we were moving in the right direction but now it's. COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well, I think we just hold fast but he's certainly not going to hook anything up if! have my say. . . SUPERVISOR BROWER-I thought we were very close, I was very disappointed when he called back and said he's not taking it. .. So, that's where we stand on that. REV ALUA TION CONTRACTORS - HELEN OTTE RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO.: 519,2003 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED IT'S ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Regular Session and enters Executive Session to discuss Contract Proposals. Duly adopted this 8th day of December, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer NOES: None ABSENT: None Special Town Board Meeting, 12-08-2003, Mtg #58 77 RESOLUTION TO RECONVENE RESOLUTION NO.: 520,2003 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED IT'S ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Executive Session and enters Regular Session of the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury. Duly adopted this 8th day of December, 2003, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer NOES: None ABSENT: None DISCUSSION - POSITION TITLE COUNCILMAN STEC-It's my opinion, going forward looking into how I want to try to do things at the town the next two years as Supervisor, that I would prefer to not have a Comptroller position... It's my understanding after having it explained and reviewing it mostly with Town Counsel, is that we can have a position other then Comptroller, entitled Budget Officer. The job description, and I don't have it in front of me, I know that they're working on preparing a resolution but the job description would essentially state that the position of Budget Officer would be to support the Town Supervisor, fulfill his statutory requirements as the Chief Fiscal Officer for the town. We could go and in fact, I would highly suggest going an added step in clarifying it even further and spelling out duties very similar to the current Comptroller job description, which begs the next question, well, why would you do that if it' s going to be almost the same job, what are the differences, or what are the advantages and disadvantages. Essentially, what we're talking about doing is making it an at-will, the only fundamental difference is, as I understand it, from the Counsel's Office is that the only difference is, this at-will function that perhaps the Town Board would have, you can insert the word, flexibility or control or added accountability, added opportunities for review of the operations that I think would give the town, my word would be greater flexibility. So, I think that there's value in that, I felt that way two years ago, I still feel that way today and I know we've had a lot of discussions one on one but for the purpose of some public discussion, I wanted to bring that up tonight. COUNCILMAN BOOR-Budget Officer would be the title you would be looking at? COUNCILMAN STEC-It's my understanding that the position has to exist for the County to recognize it, or we need to go through some added steps to create a job, post it or describe it at the County and the County at some point would review it and say okay, we recognize this position that you're trying to create... SUPERVISOR BROWER-Why would you want to go backwards? COUNCILMAN STEC-I have a different idea of what I want to see out of that office and I want to take a large role myself, not necessarily do I want to do all of that job but I think that there will be portions of that, that I have background for that I could perform.... COUNCILMAN BOOR-Let's assume we go another route and we don't have a Comptroller, is this position at the discretion of the Supervisor to let this person go or the Town Board? COUNCILMAN STEC-I don't know what the law says, I understand that the law may say that it is a position that is under the discretion of the Supervisor but personally, if you're asking what my Special Town Board Meeting, 12-08-2003, Mtg #58 78 intentions are or if you're asking what I would be willing to stipulate within whatever the law would allow, it's not my intention to say that I want the sole authority to hire and fire, I think it should be the Town Board. COUNCILMAN BOOR-Yea, I don't think that's healthy. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I think it should be too. COUNCILMAN STEC-I'm not trying to assert that all but what I don't know is I don't honestly know what's allowed in the law. COUNCILMAN BOOR-My discussion with Bob (Hafner), I came away with a few things, one is that the comptroller as it exists today, his duty is to report to the Supervisor, not the Town Board and that would be the same with what you are saying. He did not specify firing, but the responsibility is to report to Dennis now because he's Supervisor. COUNCILMAN STEC-Oh, I misunderstood the question. As far as reporting goes, I mean that was one of the frustrations that I had as a Councilman and one of the things that I campaigned on was, just in general things that I wanted done differently from the Councilman's perspective, I would strive to do as Supervisor. So, I would prefer to see the Board have more direct interaction from a reporting standpoint. I mean, obviously, the Supervisor is in the day to day position where I'll have more opportunity to do then the rest of you but certainly if John Strough comes in and says, I want this, and you know they discuss a time line and say, okay give me a week and I'll do that for you, as a Supervisor, I wouldn't at all have a problem. .. My intention would be to give each Board Member more input into the position... COUNCILMAN BOOR-If we were to go with something like a Budget Officer, could they be fired without cause? COUNCILMAN STEC- They would be like any other. COUNCILMAN BOOR-So, a Budget Officer could be fired just as Chris Round could, Chuck Rice? COUNCILMAN STEC- Yes. COUNCILMAN BOOR-So, essentially, the status would be the same as a Department Head, not an appointed with a two year term? COUNCILMAN STEC-Correct. What I'm envisioning is someone more like those other Department Heads, a position more like the other Department Head Positions.... COUNCILMAN BREWER-Do you know what the position was before we had Comptroller? COUNCILMAN STEC-I think it was Budget Officer and I know that since we've had the Comptroller's Position, the Budget Officer has been the Town Supervisor. COUNCILMAN BOOR-Salary for a Budget Officer? COUNCILMAN STEC-I think that's something that certainly the Board would have to discuss. COUNCILMAN BOOR-Because between you and I would not like to start it where the Comptroller is now. COUNCILMAN STEC-No, well, we would need to determine which band is the appropriate band. Again, I think if we're talking about similar duties, I think we're talking about a similar band, but then I think after that, it's largely dependent on who the individual is and if the individual is the current Comptroller, then I'm not suggesting that we look for ways to cut an individual's salary. COUNCILMAN BOOR-No, I know. COUNCILMAN STEC-I think it would depend on who the person is. Special Town Board Meeting, 12-08-2003, Mtg #58 79 COUNCILMAN BOOR-Experience and what they're bringing. COUNCILMAN STEC-Right and that would be a Board's decision just like all the other decisions. SUPERVISOR BROWER-Just so that I'm on the record, I just want you to know that I oppose changing the position from Comptroller to any other at-will position. I think the two year provision is important for any professional coming to a job to know they have a guarantee for two years at least, they can't be fired at will, that there is some job security there and I think that if you hire a professional like we have, with good credentials, you don't have to worry about the fact that they're going to get the job done. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Not to argue the point, but isn't Chris Round a professional, doesn't he have credentials? SUPERVISOR BROWER- Yes but the state specific provides for the position of Comptroller which is a Town Board appointed position. COUNCILMAN BREWER-But that's not what you said, you said someone with credentials and someone professional should have a guaranteed two year position. Now, I feel, in my opinion, we have a lot of professionals, Bob Keenan, you can go right down the line, all of our Department Heads are professionals with credentials and they don't have that option, if you will. SUPERVISOR BROWER-That's because the state enabled the Comptroller's position. Town Board held further discussion regarding advantages and disadvantages of changing the title and no decision was made... RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO.: 521,2003 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED FOR IT'S ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Regular Session and enters Executive Session to discuss a Personnel Matter. Duly adopted this 8th day of December, 2003, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer NOES: None ABSENT: None RESOLUTION TO ADJOURN EXECUTIVE SESSION AND SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION NO.: 522,2003 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR IT'S ADOPTION Special Town Board Meeting, 12-08-2003, Mtg #58 80 SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Executive Session and enters Regular Session of the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns it's Special Town Board Meeting. Duly adopted this 8th day of December, 2003, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer NOES: None ABSENT: None No further action taken. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, DARLEEN M. DOUGHER TOWN CLERK TOWN OF QUEENSBURY