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2004-03-29 SP MTG15 Special Town Board Meeting, 03-29-2004, Mtg #15 496 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING Mtg #15 MARCH 29, 2004 Res. #182-184 7:04 P.M. BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER TOWN OFFICIALS Ralph VanDusen, Water/Wastewater Superintendent Mike Shaw, Deputy Wastewater Superintendent Chris Round, Executive Director of Community Development DISCUSSIONS LUZERNE ROAD SEWER STUDY – DON FLETCHER – Barton & Loguidice SUPERVISOR STEC-Noted that Mr. Fletcher is not feeling well, won’t be attending tonight’s meeting and therefore we’ll pull the discussion. ROUTE 9 CHANGE ORDERS MR. MIKE SHAW, Deputy Wastewater Superintendent-We’re looking to get a consensus from the Town Board as to how we’re going to handle these change orders on the project on Route 9. We’re seeing certainly a number of them from one particular contractor, Delaney Construction, some of these are questionable and the engineers are doing their job as to sorting those out. But we are seeing some legitimate change orders, we’ve had one that you’re aware of and have authorized. We’ve had some other ones, conflicts with utilities but the trouble is, when they hit things out in the field that’s above and beyond the normal contract, what is authorized is up to five thousand dollars and certainly most of these change orders that we’re seeing, are in excess of that. So, we’re here to talk to the Board about how we can proceed ahead and not hold the contractor up… MR. RALPH VANDUSEN, Water/Wastewater Superintendent-We need to talk about the specific change orders on Route 9 but we need to talk about the general factors because what we do here is going to be the same thing on the water transmission job when we get to that. Our big concern is, and I’ll use an example, we discovered on Tuesday or Wednesday of last week, that there was a conflict between the existing location of a waterline on Montray Road at Route 9 and where the gravity sewer line had to go. A gravity sewer line is relatively flat, there was absolutely no room for change whatsoever and the waterline was perpendicular and coming across, the two just intersected and there was absolutely no choice but to move the waterline… If we want to go through a, I’ll say traditional change order process, meaning anything over five thousand would have to go to the Board, we can say to the contractor, you can not work in this area, we’ll get back to you as soon we can, realistically the contractor is going to be asking for additional money because we’re holding him up in some cases. We don’t want to do that, we don’t want to artificially raise the costs… So, what we’d like to do is, make you aware of what’s happening on Route 9 but hopefully be able to come to a consensus of how do we want to handle these for this project as well as the water project that’s coming up. From a cost standpoint, I think the estimate now is going to be in the range of eight thousand dollars on that relocation of the waterline. Realistically, some of the underground utilities, we just aren’t going to know where they are until you dig them up, to find out if there is a conflict or not. Like it or not, that’s going to be a situation that’s going to occur, it’s not the contractor’s fault, it’s not the engineer’s fault, it’s just a situation that occurred and we’d like to be able to work out a little more flexibility that Mike or I have the authority to approve a change order of a little larger magnitude then five thousand to be able to address that. Certainly, and I’m just picking numbers from nowhere, we’re not looking for a forty or fifty thousand dollar approval. Special Town Board Meeting, 03-29-2004, Mtg #15 497 Somehow we may want to tie it into a cumulative affect of a percentage of the project or something that the Board is comfortable with that we think is a practical solution… For discussion purposes, I would recommend that you authorize us to do change orders due to preexisting unknown conditions of up to twenty thousand dollars with the understanding that we’re going to notify you, each and everyone, whether it’s a two dollar change or a twenty thousand dollar change, you’ll get notification from us that this has happened, a cumulative total of what the total changes have been to date, with the understanding that we will not under any circumstance exceed the contingency line that was included in the budget that the Board had approved. Town Board held discussion, agreed with Mr. VanDusen’s recommendation and will forward onto the legal department to prepare resolution for next Regular Town Board Meeting… VETERAN’S MEMORIAL MR. LEON SPATH, Commander of Post 1797 American Legion , Former Commander MR. CHAD MARTIN, Martin Memorials Spoke to the Town Board regarding a request to place a Veteran’s Memorial at Hovey Pond Park…. Town Board held discussion, agreed with the location of Hovey Pond and Supervisor Stec noted that he will bring this to Harry Hansen, Director of Parks and Recreation, the Recreation Commission and the Friends of Hovey Pond… MEATH PROPERTY REZONING PROFESSIONAL OFFICE REZONING AND SPECIAL USE PERMITS MR. CHRIS ROUND, Executive Director-Gave update on the Meath property… Noted, it’s owned by Ski and Shore Limited, it’s located at Exit 20, Gurney Lane and West Mountain Road and currently zoned Single Family Residential One Acre. We had a project applicant, as part of the regular rezoning process make an application for a rezoning to go from Single Family Residential One Acre to go to Suburban Residential One Acre. The town conducted a public hearing back on st December 1, and the purpose for the rezoning was that they’re looking at a cluster subdivision at that time, Single Family and Multi Family Units clustered on this project and the SFR1A zone does not allow clustering… I think there was some interest and initiative and I think there was debate that went on and I think before you reached a decision, the idea came out, we would rather see this property zoned Professional Office, rather then reach a decision on it, you sent them away to come back with a PO zone project…. January, they came back to us and said, it was their understanding that the town was going to change the zoning designation since you didn’t like the initiative that we had proposed… They came back to our office and sat down with our Senior Planner and we looked at the meeting minutes and it wasn’t clear that the Town Board said we want the Planning Department to prepare an application, materials to come in for this project. So, we said that’s not our understanding, and we were not here but they came in for a workshop meeting with the board and the board gave them direction that the town would indeed take on a rezoning of this property… COUNCILMAN BOOR-That was Dan and I, I don’t think there was anyone else. MR. ROUND, Executive Director-So, they came back, we prepared those materials to take this from SFR to Professional Office. You saw that material back on, to set a public hearing on that st project back for March 1… You had concerns about the town itself moving forward with the rezoning of a single project and also on that same night, was the Professional Office District change… SUPERVISOR STEC-The Special Use Permit for Residential within two hundred feet of the Northway. MR. ROUND, Executive Director-Right, and that’s why we’re here tonight, we need direction from you, what does the town desire to do… Special Town Board Meeting, 03-29-2004, Mtg #15 498 COUNCILMAN BOOR-Do you want to talk about this particular one? I think we need to be clear of what we’re talking about. SUPERVISOR STEC-I still think that they’re separate, we can consider one and or the other. MR. ROUND, Executive Director-There’s been concern that the town shouldn’t be rezoning single properties, there hasn’t been a history of that… SUPERVISOR STEC-Currently you don’t have a rezoning application from the owner? MR. ROUND, Executive Director-Well, the one that we have, you had a public hearing and you didn’t reach a decision on that… SUPERVISOR STEC-I thought that this property or this particular location in town was mentioned in the Comprehensive Land Use Plan. COUNCILMAN BOOR-For Professional Office. MR. ROUND, Executive Director-Just to back up, back in 1998 when you did the Comprehensive Plan, you identified this property as well as adjoining properties for rezoning from SFR to PO…. SUPERVISOR STEC-This property came up and we removed it from the list of properties rezoned. MR. ROUND, Executive Director-It met opposition, a change in character of the area going from which has been historically Single Family Residential…. I think Roger spearheaded a change and I think Roger has been part of the school district town meetings where the concern is, the amount of Professional Office Zoning is not being really used for Professional Offices, it’s being used for Multifamily Residential and what can we do to address that. In that same breath is also the concern that this particular property is not suitable for residential in a limited portion of the site because of its proximity to the Northway and because a number of problems. COUNCILMAN BOOR-And you know Exit 20 is going to eventually expand and to put houses, it’s crazy, and you’ve got Great Escape on one side and West Mountain on the other. COUNCILMAN BREWER-And that brings me to the question, Roger, when this first came up, if we rezone this and then we look at the PO Zone and change it, what sense does it make to change that zone first and then go back and re-change the PO Zone? The issue I had with it was and I have constituents that say, who are we to say that if I own a piece of property next to the Northway, I can’t build a house there? And that’s essentially what you’re saying. COUNCILMAN BOOR-No, we’re not. We are allowing a Special Use. In other words, you can but you will have to get a Special Use Permit to do it…. MR. ROUND, Executive Director-I think that’s the difficulty, people are trying to deal with a number of issues. I think in fairness, I think you’ve got to deal with this property first because you have given direction to an applicant. I think you need to make a decision based upon principal, do you want the town to look at a rezoning of this property… SUPERVISOR STEC-I’m with you on that but I want to ask this question. We’re concerned about adding density for residential, we don’t want to take but we don’t necessarily want to give more density because of the schools concerns and all the issues we’ve got with the residential, is there value in saying, instead of saying within two hundred feet, just saying all Professional Office in the town requires a Special Use Permit for residential? Then that way, you’re not picking on one property; you’re talking about the whole town… COUNCILMAN BOOR-My thought was that there would be special use for residential in Professional Office, you would have to go and get a Special Use Permit, period. It had nothing to do with two hundred feet from the Northway or anything. So, in other words, I’d like to see Professional Office used as a buffer, a transition from maybe Highway Commercial to Residential and we would prefer to have a tax revenue generating business as opposed to Residential. That doesn’t mean we won’t allow Residential but we would prefer tax-generating property. Special Town Board Meeting, 03-29-2004, Mtg #15 499 MR. ROUND, Executive Director-What you need to do is, you need to establish criteria by which a Special Use Permit would be granted. Site Plan Review does allow you discretion on what types of uses… SUPERVISOR STEC-But a Special Use Permit would give you a little more control. MR. ROUND, Executive Director-It does but you’ve got to establish what is that control that you’re trying to exercise. SUPERVISOR STEC-A conscious decision. MR. ROUND, Executive Director-The Planning Board has that with Site Plan Review. COUNCILMAN BOOR-No, not the way it is now. I see it go the other way. If we have some for Professional Office, there’s no way they’re going to come up with how many residences. SUPERVISOR STEC-They are going to say it’s an allowed use… COUNCILMAN STROUGH-I had a few concerns too about Professional Office that I wanted to put out on the table for everyone to talk about. We do want Professional Office, I prefer the clustering and saving the green space, that’s my preference and when you do cluster, especially if you look at Professional Office as a transitional zone. There should be language, maybe not mandatory language, kind of descriptive language of what we would like to see. I wanted the buildings to be residential in appearance and street orientation, and the design of the office complex will strive to appear as integrated yet diverse on a campus style office, park or village. The landscaping, the lighting, the sign design, the trash enclosures, the architectural details, the building designs, etcetera will appear to be unified and harmonious throughout the plan and possibly public amenities such as gazebos, water fountains, gardens, something like that to dress it up. The streetscape will be dominated by the building and the landscaping, not the parking area and site design shall offer a single curb cut, promote internal traffic flows, parking, servicing all vehicles, sidewalk and pedestrian connectivity is encouraged. Signage would be matching architectural and colors with the rest of the buildings… MR. ROUND, Executive Director-Those are all very good things but I think what the board has been struggling with is, is under what Special Use Permits would you allow residential use versus professional use… We can adopt a revised Professional Office Ordinance that would articulate some of those types of design goals and you can do that as part of the site plan review process… With regards to a Special Use Permit, is that you need to give direction under what conditions are we going to issue this special use permit… I think what we’re trying to do is struggle with two different issues. One is the rezoning of this property and the other is, do we want to recast our Professional Office zone and it’s very difficult to do those in the same breath because you’re affecting more then one property. SUPERVISOR STEC-I agree with Chris, we’ve got two separate issues and I don’t see a reason why we can’t make a decision on one and maybe hold off for a while and come back to the other but I think we owe Meath a direction. COUNCILMAN BOOR-I agree with you, but are you saying for the Meath’s to go Professional Office but with no special use? SUPERVISOR STEC-I think we’ve got time to decide if we want to change the PO zone. COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well, I would like to see us, if nothing else, rezone this to PO and if we want to continue further discussions on, where we’re fine-tuning. SUPERVISOR STEC-I’m hearing what you’re saying, I think that’s where we’re at. COUNCILMAN STROUGH-I think that the direction that we want to go in, Professional Office, I think there is a consensus. Generally, what I’m hearing is, with the exception of Ted who doesn’t want to see any kind of residential, that any kind of Professional Office zoning we do have is very residential restrictive and that’s one reason why we were thinking about going along with the Special Town Board Meeting, 03-29-2004, Mtg #15 500 Special Use Permit. Chris is saying that we need some kind of definition to maybe go along with that Special Use Permit to give the Planning Board and others’ guidance, the applicant guidance as to what we’re expecting and don’t expect. But I do think we want to be somewhat restrictive but not in every single case. COUNCILMAN BREWER-I agree with that but if we rezone this, just hypothetically, a month and a half from now, two and a half months from now we make that zone more restrictive, how does that set this guy straight so he knows what he’s going to be doing? COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Mr. Meath, when we’re all said and done, was a Professional Office which I don’t believe but he should have the benefit of seeing exactly what he’s getting into. I mean we should have and Chris has suggested that we can put some of this language in the Planning Board Site Plan Review, it doesn’t have to be mandatory but kind of a guideline. I think this general agreement to go with a Special Use Permit for residential housing with some restrictions. SUPERVISOR STEC-Within two hundred feet? COUNCILMAN BOOR-I don’t disagree with you John but I’m not sure the two hundred feet is that important to me. Do I want to live next to the Northway, no, do I think it’s appropriate no, I just think the developer has to make a case why it’s okay. SUPERVISOR STEC-So, you’re saying just in general for PO? COUNCILMAN BOOR-Then you need a Special Use Permit to build residential and then the Planning Board says, you know what, we don’t want these houses so this park can’t have houses, this park maybe can and that’s how, they can determine whether two hundred is appropriate. MR. ROUND, Executive Director-It can be something as simple as demonstrate compatibility with the land use with the adjoining land uses or something like that. SUPERVISOR STEC-And why just the Northway? I mean, I think we need to answer the question, I 87, Route 9 and Quaker Road. COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Well, that’s what Chris said, basically we’re giving the Planning Board extra, by taking a harder look at this and saying this might not be appropriate, take a real close look at the residential housing being proposed in this Professional Office zoning. SUPERVISOR STEC-I see what you’re saying, you’d rather, if we’re going to do them in order, you would rather change the code before we rezone this guy. COUNCILMAN BOOR-Or simultaneously. SUPERVISOR STEC-Let’s do it simultaneously. I don’t have a problem saying, any PO in the town requires a Special Use Permit for residential, period. COUNCILMAN BREWER-But you ought to have the definition of Special Use Permit before you do that. COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Right, and that’s what Chris is going to work on. MR. ROUND, Executive Director-I think the thing that’s going to get debated is any of these conditions about PO zones, because you’re going to have the development community talking to you, and he’s going to say, well, what does this exactly mean and it’s going to get delayed. You’re not going to have a public hearing and pass on it, it’s going to be debated on…. COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Another thing I’ve said all along, words like I’m suggesting, would put a lot of adjoining landowner’s concerns at ease if they knew they were getting a first class product. We’re not talking about steel buildings, gray block buildings, we’re talking about something that looks very residential and in reality, in terms of traffic levels and everything else, it will actually have a smaller impact on them then if it did go residential and that’s kind of why I wanted the language in there some place. Special Town Board Meeting, 03-29-2004, Mtg #15 501 MR.ROUND, Executive Director-Let me do this then, we’ll communicate to the Meaths that the town is moving forward with a change in zone, they are also contemplating these other uses. Right now we’d like to do them hand in hand. I’m not sure what kind of time frame, to get the draft to you, to get through this, I’m going to need four to six weeks… COUNCILMAN BOOR-I don’t have a problem with that time frame but I really would like to believe that this Board could give some kind of informal assurance to the applicant that yes, it is going to be Professional Office. MR. ROUND, Executive Director-You’re willing to progress separately on those issues? SUPERVISOR STEC-I think so. COUNCILMAN BOOR-Is it appropriate to tell the Meaths that you can be relatively sure that we are going to rezone to Professional Office, that we’re going to be having discussions as to potentially changing the perimeters of that and then say, this is probably as restrictive as it might and if he goes, that’s not a problem, then MR. ROUND, Executive Director-Then proceed at your own risk. COUNCILMAN BOOR-I think that’s a fair way to go. SUPERVISOR STEC-Do you want to communicate that to him? MR. ROUND, Executive Director-Yes, we’ll sit down…. OTHER DISCUSSIONS SUPERVISOR STEC spoke to the Board regarding tinting of the Atrium in Town Building, mailings of Town Newsletter, and cash versus line of credit regarding road dedications… ROUTE 9 LIGHTING Town Board held discussion regarding the leasing of lights from NIMO versus purchasing the lights and agreed to purchase the 50 lights, pay for energy and maintenance of lights… Will discuss further at the next workshop as to the specific fixture… ENFORCEMENT ISSUES MR. ROUND, Executive Director gave update on status of applicant for Transient Merchant Market… TOWN BOARD held discussion regarding enforcement issues within the town for various violations; zoning enforcement issues versus quality of life issues and changes they’re seeing in the town… HEALTH OFFICER SUPERVISOR STEC-The Health Officer, as you all know, people are not beating down our door to volunteer to be the Health Officer and according to the law we are required to have a Health Officer and we’re three months into the year. COUNCILMAN BREWER-Does it have to be a MD? SUPERVISOR STEC-Yes, it’s my understanding it has to be… COUNCILMAN BREWER-Let’s find out if it has to be. Special Town Board Meeting, 03-29-2004, Mtg #15 502 SUPERVISOR STEC-I’ll find out and if it has to be, it has to be but I think that we’re going to have to offer some sort of stipend. I think four thousand, for the amount that we use anybody is a lot. COUNCILMAN BOOR-We definitely want to interview because I want, if we’re going to be paying somebody, I want somebody that’s proactive and has an opinion. SUPERVISOR STEC-Everyone here knows a Doctor, if you guys can come up with a Doctor that would be interested in doing this… I’ll verify whether or not it needs to be an MD but I’m pretty sure Bob told me that it needed to be a MD. RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO.: 182, 2004 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR IT’S ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Regular Session and enters Executive Session to discuss a Labor Matter/Grievance issue. th Duly adopted this 29 day of March, 2004, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer NOES: None ABSENT: None RESOLUTION TO RECONVENE RESOLUTION NO.: 183, 2004 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR IT’S ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Executive Session and enters Regular Session of the Town Board. th Duly adopted this 29 day of March, 2004, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: None Special Town Board Meeting, 03-29-2004, Mtg #15 503 RESOLUTION TO ADJOURN SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION NO.: 184, 2004 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR IT’S ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns their Special Town Board Meeting. th Duly adopted this 29 day of March, 2004, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor NOES: None ABSENT: None No further action taken. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, DARLEEN M. DOUGHER TOWN CLERK TOWN OF QUEENSBURY