1988-12-15 SP
QUEDSBURY TOWlI PLABRISG BOARD
Special Meeting: Thursday, December 15. 1988 at 7:30 p.m.
Present: Richard Roberts. Chairman
Joseph Dybas
Peter Cartier
Frank DeSantis
Kenneth Jablonski
Victor Macri
Paul Dusek, Counsel Lee York, Senior Planner
John S. Goralski, Planner
Mary Jane F. Moeller, Stenographer
Absent:
Hilde Mann, Secretary
Chairman Roberts called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. Board Member
Peter Cartier introduced Kenneth Jablonski, new Planning Board Member.
Mr. Jablonski has been associated with the Citizens' Advisory Committee
and spent 1 l/2 years working on the new Ordinances.
NEW BUSIHESS
SUBDIVISIOH HO. 14-1988; SKETCH PLAN
Hickory Acres
The application is for a
thirteen (13) acres of vacant
feet West of Country Club Road,
be 900 feet of new road. (Tax Map
ten (lO) lot subdivision of the present
land. 200 feet south of Sweet Road. 1.000
SFR-1A. Lots will be sold and there will
No. 64-1-5.1).
Leon M. Steves represented the project, which is owned by Sidney H.
Timms, also present at the meeting. Mr. Timms owns roughly 24 acres of
ground just West of the Niagara Mohawk land. A 50 foot cul-de-sac will
lead into the lots, with a 30 feet strip leading into adjacent, additional
land owned by Mr. Timms.
The ten lots have a general slope. The developer is concerned with the
drainage of Sweet Road and has put a high point between the houses. To
avoid any water coming onto the new road, a culvert will be put under the
proposed road. In talking to Highway Superintendent, Paul Naylor, wings
will be installed and brought into the cul-de-sac. Mr. Steves noted that
the detail for the hydrants has been changed on the plan, as requested by
Thomas Flaherty of the Water Department. The ten lots encompass a total
of 11.35 acres plus the road, making a total of more than one acre per
lot. Density is without use of easement areas or load areas.
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In answer to Mr. Roberts, the storm water drainage from Sweet Road goes
anywhere it can. Residents along the road have tried to divert the water
to keep it on the road itself; the rise going up Sweet Road to the West
enables the water to gush down during storms. Mr. Steves knows of no
catch basins. Messrs. Roberts and Steves agreed that there should be
catch basins every 300± feet with leadoffs. Mr. Roberts suggested catch
basins on the subject property; however, Mr. Steves said there is not much
need because of the close proximity of the Niagara Mohawk lands; the Timms
property is at the end of that drainage system. The essential need is to
take care of the runoff on Sweet Road.
Mr. Goralski presented the Staff comments. The plan does not indicate
the well and septic fields of the joint property owners, Article III,
Section Bl (f); the plan does not indicate the property owners within 500
feet of the subdivision, although a list was provided. There was some
concern about the 30 foot drainage easement running onto Niagara Mohawk's
property; at the Staff Meeting it was suggested that the Board might
require that Niagara Mohawk give the developer some release to drain onto
their property. The Highway Department suggested changing the name of the
road, Timms Drive, since it had some concern about the name of the road
being similar to other roads in Town; apparently, this was for safety
reasons.
Mr. Goralski also reviewed the letter from Quentin Kestner, Town Desig-
nated Consultant !Engineer , who indicated that high ground water necessi-
tates fill systems and these systems are proposed for Lots 1, 2, 3 and 4;
however, testing indicates that fill systems may be necessary on all lots.
High ground water level tests are recommended for the Spring of 1989. A
storm water management plan will necessitate a preliminary review stage.
Authority from Niagara Mohawk will be necessary for the discharge of storm
water onto its land.
Mr. Steves stated that the author of the soil tests is Charles H.
Maine, Soil Scientist. On 7/29/87 he examined the soil test pits on the
subdivision; the report was written 9/15/87 (on file). The deep, lacru-
stine soils derived were from very fine sandy, silty and clay loam. Soil
drainage varies from well-drained to moderately well-drained to somewhat
poorly drained.
Regarding Mr. Kestner's recommendation to secure a letter from Niagara
Mohawk, Mr. Steves said normally he would agree that it was necessary.
However, in this case, the present flow of water is the normal channel; it
runs easterly to Country Club Road, Southerly to Quaker Road, and Easterly
to Halfway Brook. He also felt that the project's road would decrease the
acceleration of the water because any flow off of Sweet Road would be
interrupted; however, there would be an increase at the paved area. An
analysis could be secured and presented to the Planning Board and the
Board's engineer.
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Regarding the percolation tests, Mr. Steves said they were not taken
much below four feet. Mr. Cartier noted also that the tests were taken
close to each other; he would like to see testing spread farther apart.
Mr. Steves noted that they were taken on the East side of the road, in an
attempt to get the downhill side so the soils on the hill system could be
determined. The Department of Health requires the systems to be in place
and approved individually, as opposed to an entire plan. The reasons are:
1) to be sure that capillary action does not exist in raising the ground
water into the system; and 2) to have the soils there in the length of
time so that what is to happen will happen, prior to the inspection.
Although Mr. Steves felt that this should not concern the Board at this
time, Mr. Roberts noted that the concerns will help determine whether or
not the lands are developable. Additional work will be necessary. Mr .
Steves stated that fill systems could be installed now and then tested in
the Spring. The ground water is the determining factor as to whether or
not to use a fill system. Further discussion regarding the fill systems
and testing continued. Mr. Roberts suggested that perhaps Mr. Kestner and
Mr. Maine could discuss this subject more thoroughly.
Mr. Macri moved to REQUEST Lead Agency status for the Queensbury Town
Planning Board, for Subdivision No. 14-1988, Hickory Acres, for the
purpose of SEQR. The Planning Department is to notify all agencies
involved.
Seconded by Mr. Dybas.
Passed UnaD.iaously.
(Note: Mr. Dusek clarified to the Board that SEQR cannot be dealt with
until Lead Agency status is declared, which must be within 30 days of the
Planning Board's request for such status. Lead Agency status can be
obtained from the involved agencies by a written signoff or telephone
calls from the Planning Department to the respective agencies. No
Preliminary Approval for an application can be authorized until the SEQR
process is completed. The 45-day time clock does not begin to run until
the SEQR process is complete.)
Mr. Cartier moved APPROVAL of Subdivision No. 14-1988, SKETCH PLAN,
Hickory Acres, with the stipulation that information requested by Quentin
Kestner, Town Designated Consultant/Engineer, be provided and that the
questions brought up by John Goralski, Planner, be dealt with in the sub-
sequent applications.
Seconded by Mr. DeSantis.
Passed Unan1.JRously.
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SUBDIVISION NO. 4-1988: SKETCH PLAN
Timberland Consultants, Inc.
The plan is for a subdivision of 99 acres into 28 lots, on the north
side of Route 149, 0. 7 mile East of Bay Road, RR-3A. The applicant plans
to sell 28 lots for single family residences. At present, the site is
vacant and wooded. (Tax Map No. 27-1-35) (Adirondack Park Agency).
Duncan Harrison represented the developers. (See Exhibit A for the
Narrative). Because the location is in the middle of a curve on Route
149, site distance requirements are being discussed with Herb Steffans of
the Department of Transportation. The plan is for a cluster developnent;
the northern most part of the property, which is the rear portion, falls
into the Lake George Park. Meetings have been held with the Lake George
Park Commission; an application has been su1mitted for a Variance from the
Lake George moritoriwn. The site is not within the Lake George drainage
basin. The property itself is a well-drained area and the area of
developnent is along the ridge. The road is proposed along the high point
of land, and the drainage runs east and west. Percolation tests have been
cœpleted and show sandy soil, which will accommodate an in-ground septic
system.
There is sandy, silky soil in the area of Beaver Pond, and the intent
is to keep that area forever wild. There area is a 43-acre common open
space, which encompasses the entire pond; there is also a designated wet-
land in the pond area. Along the edge of the pond as well as the common
area, it is the developer's intent to make a deed restriction that there
will be no developnent to protect the area environmentally.
Proposed is 4200 feet of new road, which includes a loop road as well
as 750± feet of cul-de-sac. Of the 99 acres, 6 acres will be allotted for
streets, 6 acres designated by the APA as wetland area, less than one acre
will be for public use. Of the remaining 86 acres, there will be 28 lots
or approximately 3 acres per parcel. Under the proposed cluster design,
the smallest lot would be 44,000 square feet (one acre) to the largest lot
of 140,000 square feet, averaging about 75,000 square feet (1 3/4 acre).
The reason for the design is: 1) there are adequate ideal soils along the
top of the ridge; and 2) the environmentally-sensitive area is protected.
Drainage flows in a southerly direction away from Lake George.
There was discussion regarding the nwnber of access points and the
proposed 60-foot wide access off Route 149. Because of the hazard of the
access being located on a curve in the road, the Board suggested a wider
entrance up to the first turn to the north; perhaps a boulevard-type
road. Reasons for the concern are room for emergency vehicles, temporary
blockage of part of the road, etc. Kr. Harrison noted that the developers
are in the process of obtaining a cutting easement on the south side of
Route 149 to improve the site distance. Kr. Roberts stated he would like
to see more information on that; in addition, it has to be agreed to by
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the property owners. Kr. Harrison informed Kr. Roberts that this area is
being closely watched by Kr. Steffans of the DOT. In addition, he
(Harrison) has met with the private owners and there is an agreement to
provide a cutting easement; it is in the Final Draft now and will be
su1:m1tted to the Board once completed. Within the planned easement, there
will be no planting of shrubs, construction of a house, etc. Once the
easement is cut, there will be some maintenance required for that land.
Depth of snow from snowplows in the winter will not obstruct vision.
Lot lines of parcels 2, 3, 4 and 5 do extend into the wetland. APA
requires a 100 foot restricted area from any wetland, and the final pro-
posed map will have a dotted line through that area. There can be no
septic, house, etc. in that area.
Staff comments by Kr. Goralski noted concerns regarding the wetlands,
in that they are a significant environmental issue and should be
addressed. The plan does not indicate the wells and septic systems of
adjoining properties. Since the road is more than 1000 feet, the Fire
Chief is concerned about a second access to the property, and he questions
if the fire trucks could maneuver in the cul-de-sac, if there are vehicles
parked on the road. Site distance on Route 149 should be addressed. Kr .
Goralski requested to know more about the possible future developnent to
the east of the project site.
Kr. Goralski was informed that the future developnent site is owned by
Kr. Whalen, who resides on the south side of Route 149, where a cutting
easement is being secured. This 28 acre parcel has been landlocked, and
the Timberland developnent would give access to Kr. Whalen's parcel.
Potentially there can be some developnent, similar to the present applica-
tion. Kr. Whalen's property does have access to Route 149, but there are
wetlands involved, about 500 to 600 feet into the property; it is basic-
ally impossible to get into the back acreage. Kr. Roberts noted that this
would be all the more of a reason to have a better entrance to the Timber-
land developnent.
Kr. Harrison affirmed that there is a site problem at the entrance, and
he affirmed that the developers would do as good a job as possible to
construct a safe entrance. Possibilities for the entrance include elevat-
ing the road and/or widening the entrance; recommendations by DOT would
also be taken into consideration. Kr. DeSantis stated that there would
have to be a second entrance if, at some time, Kr. Whalen were to build 28
lots. The Planning Board recommended to Kr. Harrison that the entrance
road be widened to double width. Kr. Cartier referred to the Town Ordin-
ance for Subdivisions, Article VIII, E. 5. "In the case of an internalized
subdivision the requirements for two entrances may be satisfied by a provi-
sion of a double width (2 times standard road width) road from the main
connecting street to the first intersecting street. A planted center
island will be required in a double width roadway and an increase in the
right-of-way will be required to provide for the planted center island."
A 100-foot roadway will not be needed.
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Mr. Goralski read Quentin Kestner's letter of 12/12/88. Storm water
management measures are to be subnitted with the preliminary plan. It
will be necessary to limit peak runoff and facilities for recharge, or it
will be necessary for detention. Water supply will be supplied by individ-
ual wells. Mr. Kestner recommended approval. Mr. Roberts suggested that
the engineers, Q. Kestner and W. Gannett of R1st Frost, consult on the
matter of detention. Mr. Gannett stated that storm water management is
planned in accordance with Town standard.
Mr. Dybas moved APPROVAL of Subdivision No. 4-1988, SKETCH PLAN,
Timberland Consultants, Inc. . However, the storm water runoff will be
discussed by Quentin Kestner, Town Designated ConsultantjEngineer, and
Wayne Gannett, R1st Frost Engineer.
Mr. Dybas moved to subnit a REQUEST to the Adirondack Park Agency that
it become Lead Agency for the SEQR review for Subdivision No. 4-1988,
Timberland Consultants, Inc. . Mrs. Lee York, Sr. Planner, agreed to con-
tact the above-mentioned agency. If the Adirondack Park Agency denied the
request, the Town Planning Board agreed that it would request Lead Agency
status.
Seconded by Mr. Macri.
Passed Vnaniaously
SUBDIVISION NO. 9-1988; SKETCH PLAN
Kenneth Ermiger
The proposal is to subdivide into three (3) commercial lots, to sell
and to deed a triangular parcel to Agway to remedy encroachment, on the
West side of Route 9, 800± ft. south of Round Pond Road, HC-1A. The Total
lot size is 9.04 acres, Zero feet of new road. (Tax Map No. 73-1-4,5)
Mark Bombard was representative for the applicant. The location is
between Animal Land and Agway and has been on the market for a long time.
There is a bad encroachment by Agway and Lot #3 will be conveyed to Agway.
On Lot #2 there is a log cabin, which Mr. Ermiger is renting. The main
reason for the subdivision is for Lot #1; there is a contract with Bob
Baker Pools. Any developnent in the area is subject to Site Plan Review,
which means Bob Baker will present to the Planning Board his Site Plan.
Drainage is towards Route 9, where there is an existing drainage
system. The area is relatively flat. There are some vent/fill pipes with
concrete pads, which will be removed. Staff comments and a letter from
Fire Marshal Bodenweiser were reviewed expressing concern about the pipes
(on file). Mr. Bodenweiser requested to know what is in the ground and
what the owner plans to do about it, before the Board gives Final Approval
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on the property. The Planning Board requested that the applicant have a
conversation with Mr. Bodenweiser and have a plan formulated regarding
this problem, before returning for Preliminary Approval.
Mr. DeSantis moved APPROVAL of Subdivision No. 9-1988, SKETCH PLAN,
Kenneth Ermiger.
Mr. DeSantis moved to REQUEST Lead Agency status for the Queensbury
Town Planning Board for Subdivision No. 9-1988, Kenneth Ermiger, for the
purpose of SEQR. The Planning Department is to notify all agencies in-
volved.
Seconded by Mr. Cartier.
Passed Unaniaously.
SUBDIVISION NO. 13-1988; SKETCH PLAN - 1ó2- /5-88
Bedford Close, Section 6
The application is for 23 lots in Section 6 at the intersection of
Corinth Road and West Mountain Road, SR-1A. The total lot acreage is 34±
acres; 2,500 feet of new road. At present the site is vacant wooded
land. (Tax Map No. 125-2-20.2, 22.1, 23, 39, 24.1)
Andrew McCormack, Coulter and McCormack Land Surveyors, represented
Northern Homes (Applicant) and Starburst Developnent Co. Inc. (Owners).
Mr. McCormack stated that Bedford Close has been under construction for
the past 14 to 15 years. The property contains 36.21 acres, and the area
is contained within Corinth Road and West Mountain Road. Three/four
buffer zones amount to 8.62 acres, leaving 27.59 acres for the developnent
portion, which would allow 27 lots under Town standards; however, 23 lots
have been planned. The one access into the subdivision is from West
Mountain Road, which passes into Section 5, at which point there is access
to Corinth Road and Pitcher Road.
Mr. McCormack advised the Board that the contours on the map, dated
11/23/88, are one-foot contours. The grades of the roads would not exceed
3% - most of them will be 1\ or 2%. The entrance road will be just below
3%. As far as a Sketch Drainage Plan is concerned, coming out of Section
5 there is 300 to 400 feet of drainage in both directions to a low point,
at which location the water would be taken into a series of dry wells or a
leaching bed into a buffer area. The idea is to keep the storm water run-
off on the property.
Mr. McCormack advised the Board that Section 6 of Bedford Close is not
in the water district, although it is surrounded by water mains. He said
an application would be made to the Water Department requesting an exten-
sion of the water district.
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All requirements have been satisfied, with the exception of a Sketch
Landscape Plan, and Mr. McCormack requested clarification of this type of
plan. He was advised that some requirements are indicating: trees to be
planted, types of new plantings, any change in the character of the land,
what will be done regarding erosion, etc. Regarding aquifer recharge, Mr.
Cartier requested that the developers maintain as much wooded area on the
lot as possible and reduce the lawn area. There can be deed restrictions
regarding what percentage of the lot will be cut, before a house is con-
structed. Mr. DeSantis recoomended clearing approximately 40% of each lot
and leaving the balance as is. The Board agreed to accept a Preliminary
Map from the developers regarding the landscaping plan for the develop-
ment.
Michael Carusone informed the Board that the developers have been dis-
cussing this project with the present residents of the Bedford Close
Homeowner I s Association. The Association maintains the signs, flowers,
etc. The trees in the back of the lots and any other place which protects
the homeowners are owned by the developers; this is per the request of the
homeowners. Mr. Carusone said that the developnent has some very tight
restrictions, including all pools must be in the backyard and there are no
camp trailers. Under the present restrictions, no house can be built with-
out design approvals from the developers.
Mr. McCormack reviewed the soil test report from Charles H. Maine, Soil
Scientist. "The soils on this property are derived from deep, well-
drained sands and gravel material. Slopes are nearly level to gently slop-
ing. There was no evidence of high ground water problems, except in TP 15
and that was at 7 feet below the surface." There seems to be no problem
in dispersing surface runoff into several buffered areas.
John Goralski reviewed the Staff comments. The plan does not show lot
setbacks and does not indicate the wells and septic systems of adjoining
property owners. The Highway Department had a concern about the site dist-
ance at the West Mountain Road/Corinth Road intersection; presently the
distance between the roads is 430 feet centerline to centerline. One way
to alleviate the problem would be to extend the cul-<le-sac, so it meets
Corinth Road. Mr. DeSantis suggested making a cul-<le-sac of the West
Mountain end of the road, and have the road access on Corinth Road; how-
ever, the developers disagreed with this because of marketing value of the
land and minimizing disturbance to the existing neighbors. From a con-
sumer standpoint, there is more prestige and aesthetic value coming into
the developnent from West Mountain Road than Corinth Road. Regarding
safety, traffic speed on Corinth Road is substantially faster than on West
Mountain Road, at this point in time.
Mr. Macri moved APPROVAL of Subdivision No. 13-1988, SKETCH PLAN, Bed-
ford Close, Section 6, as all the factors have been addressed.
Mr. Macri moved to REQUEST Lead Agency status for the Queensbury Town
Planning Board for Subdivision No. 13-1988, Bedford Close, Section 6, for
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the purpose of SEQR. The Planning Department is to notify all agencies
involved.
Seconded by Mr. DeSantis.
Passed Unan1JRously.
Chairman Roberts adjourned the meeting at 9:40 p.m.
Date
Richard Roberts, Chairman
-A-.iJv.v
Stenographer
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Date
Please Note: Due to the distorted quality of this tape, I apologize for
any technical errors made in the transcription of this meeting.
Ka~ller
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November 29, 1988
RFA #87-1110
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fiLE JOOÞ:L;1988~1!J
TIMBERLAND SUBDIVISION
Route 149
Town of Queensbury
Pl¿.'~;~;·!;":¡G ,~ ZONINGConcept Submi ss i on - Narrat ive
D~PAnTMeNT
Project Description
Timberland Consultants proposes to develop single family residen-
tial lots on a 99 acre parcel north of Route 149. The parcel
consists of rolling, wooded terrain which generally slopes from
east to west and north to south. A ponded area approx imate 1 y 6
acres in size created by beaver activity is present on the west
side of the site. This area is a designated NYSDEC wetland.
The property is zoned RR-3A, which provides for a minimum 3 acre
lot size, or 1 acre with clustering. The property will be deve-
loped using the clustering concept. 28 lots will be provided
which is the theoretical maximum under the 3 acre zoning allowing
for deductions for roads and undevelopable areas such as the wet-
lands. The minimum lot size will be 1.0 acre. There will be a 43
acre common space available for the use and enjoyment of all resi-
dents of the subdivision. This common space will include the
majority of the wetlands. All wetlands, whether in the common
area or not, are to be preserved in a natural state.
Grading and Drainage
Local streets wi 11 be constructed to the Town of Queensbury stan-
dards. Drainage will be conveyed via roadside ditches and cul-
verts. Stormwater management measures wi 11 be prov ided in accor-
dance with the Town of Queensbury's standards to 1 imit peak run-
offs to approximately existing conditions. The majority of the
tree cover will be preserved with clearing only required for the
road right-of-way, house and driveway, and septic absorption
field, limiting peak runoff values. Engineering drainage calcula-
tions will be provided for preliminary design. Erosion control
measures will be implemented during construction to minimize
runoff.
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Timberl and
Page 2
November 29, 1988
RFA #87-1110
Access
.
Timberl and has had di scussions with the NYS Department of Trans-
portation regarding sight distance at the proposed intersection of
the subdivision road and Route 149. Adequate sight distance can
be obtained through clearing and cutting back the slope on the
south side of Route 149. Prel iminary discussions with the land-
owner indicate this is feasible.
Water and Sewer
Preliminary percolation tests have been done. The soils are
generally sandy, with some silty areas of slower percolation near
the wetl ands. Homesites are concentrated toward the ridge at
areas of better soils for subsurface disposal. Water service will
be provided through individual wells. Design of water and sewer
systems wi 11 be in accordance with NYS Department of Health stan-
dards and Town of Queensbury regulations.
Agency Coordination
The project lies within the Adirondack Park and the developer has
begun consultations with the Adirondack Park Agency. The north
portion of the property lies within the boundaries of the Lake
George Park. However, none of the property lies within the Lake
George drainage basin and the developer has initiated a request
for non-jurisdiction by the Park Commission
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SURVEYORS. ENGINEERS. LAND CONSULTANTS
Dennis L, Dickinson, P,E./LS.
Telephone: (518) 668-4676
Stone Schoolhouse Lane
'. Post Office· Box 388
Lake Geo~ge, N.Y. 12845
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29 November 1988
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Mr. Richard-Roberts
Planning Board.<
Town of Queensbury.
Bay at Haviland roads
Queensbury, NY 1280l,¡.
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Re: Kenneth Ermiger 3 Lot
· Dear Mr. Roberts: . .'. '. ~:"~i{I.,
This proposed subdivision is in th.e~HQ~lÀzone.ànd f~9Ilt.~.:~ÕnJ;1.i~jt::::<:.;
Route 9. The Q.. 65 acre lot shownon;thé_.sùbdivisïOh-plat,-:7«<":{j;lT¡:~:(.,;<·;:
will be conveyedtc)< Agway Inc. t b)c:bo;i1ndryline' agreemen:t't()~trA-r::"<'<
e 1 evia te an .exis ti.pg encroachmen t.bY,..J\:gwa.y .'·It is' Mr .Eì.1i1.~g:,p·f's-(·-
intention to sålL lot 1 arid to retain 'lot, 2 for later deve'lolj,Iue!lt.
Lots 1 and 2 are subject to sit.e pl~reviewpriortodeve~o~m~n't.
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The land is generally flat -to roll-iIig"i..:w.á:t.ha.~no±:1.::pI:ê~fap.~.J;~þ;?;ln\~:::
the rear of thep:ï-opex-ty. Stormw~t:~r.:punoff!il:t,;~þe.,h· '<,"})Y;:;êf'1:;
the-existing drainage system.ontn'tiA~Ì!t~t<'.5i4e;of"'l{out.è·< ....... . ...... ,'::t·!;;;~",
It will be the responsibility oft:hf~~·:'davelope:rto-prôvídê:'.~:::';:H~:'T;:";;\:~~~·-·
a more complete stormwater runoff.pl~n-;:if:re·quired..·:})Y'$itEl·¡{-p.~:anL:·<
rev iew .,. ".-'" ," ..~~/~~;:10~f.;:t'¡t·"::
If you have' any 'questions please to contaCtz"me',
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Sincerely,
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. Mark W. Bombard.
cc:' Kenneth Ermiger
Planning Board ··Members
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