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1997-06-17 '- QUEENS BURY PLANNING BOARD FIRST REGULAR MEETING JUNE 17, 1997 INDEX Subdivision No. 1-1997 FINAL STAGE MODIFICATION R. Mark Levack Tax Map No. 48-3-51.1, 53 1. Site Plan No. 22-97 Double A Provisions Tax Map No. 134-6-1, 14 4. Site Plan No. 35-92 MODIFICATION Howard Carr/Queensbury Plaza Tax Map No. 103-1-1.1 6 . THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. / "'-- / ~ (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) QUEENS BURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING FIRST REGULAR MEETING JUNE 17, 1997 7:00 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT ROBERT PALING, CHAIRMAN CATHERINE LABOMBARD, SECRETARY TIMOTHY BREWER CRAIG MACEWAN MEMBERS ABSENT GEORGE STARK ROGER RUEL EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-JOHN GORALSKI TOWN COUNSEL-MILLER, MANNIX, & PRATT, MARK SCHACHNER STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. The first thing we're going to do tonight is approve the minutes for April 1st and 15th, 1997. CORRECTION OF MINUTES April 1, 1997: NONE April 15, 1997: NONE MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF APRIL 1ST AND APRIL 15TH 1997, Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Robert Paling: Duly adopted this 17th day of June, 1997, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Ruel, Mr. Stark MR. BREWER-Can we do that as changed, shouldn't we? MR. PALING-That's not the one we're talking about, is it? MR. BREWER-No, all right. That's June, or May. I'm sorry. MRS. LABOMBARD-You mean that was the last time. We don't have to do those yet. MR. PALING-Yes. That was the one, no, we haven't seen that yet. OLD BUSINESS: SUBDIVISION NO. 1-1997 FINAL STAGE MODIFICATION R. MARK LEVACK OWNER: ELIO CERRONE ZONE: SR-1A LOCATION: LOT #7, CERRONE SUBDIV. APPLICANT SEEKS TO MODIFY THE FINAL PHASE SUBDIVISION APPROVAL TO INCLUDE A LOT NOT PREVIOUSLY SHOWN IN THE APPROVED PHASE. TAX MAP NO. 48-3-51.1, 53 LOT SIZE: 22.65 ACRES SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS MARK LEVACK & TOM NACE, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT STAFF INPUT - 1 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) Notes from Staff, Subdivision No. 1-1997A Modification, R. Mark Levack, Meeting Date: June 17, 1997 "The applicant proposes to modify a previously approved final phase of a subdivision to include a lot which was originally shown in the second phase of the overall subdivision plan. The applicant plans to add a 22.65 acre lot which was originally shown in phase II of the Bayberry Meadows subdivision into the first phase. Access to this 22+ acre lot will be provided with a deeded access which will eventually be built and dedicated as a town road. Staff would recommend a stipulation that a certificate of occupancy for this lot not be issued until the deeded access shown on the subdivision map is constructed to town standards for public streets." It should be added to that, and that that street is accepted by the Town Board. "Staff foresees no negative impacts with the addition of this lot into the previously approved final phase for subdivision." MR. PALING-Modify the final, okay, it was. It's going from the Final phase of the initial phase, so that it's still going to be done in two phases. MR. GORALSKI-Right. All you're doing is taking Lot Seven and moving it from Phase II to Phase I. MR. BREWER-I've got a question. Did Paul Naylor have any comment on this road that he's going to accept? MR. GORALSKI-You mean that part that says "deeded access'? MR. BREWER-Well, I mean the whole thing from Fieldview. MR. GORALSKI-Yes, well, when you approved Phase I here, Mr. Naylor had comments about tying in to Fieldview Road. MR. BREWER-No. I understand that. I mean the lay of it going into this back Lot Seven. That's going to be a Town road? MR. GORALSKI-Eventually that area will be a Town road, when Phase II gets approved, yes. Where the dotted line say a deeded access, that's actually the right-of-way. MR. BREWER-Just that small portion, then? MR. GORALSKI-Yes. MR. BREWER-All right. MR. PALING-And you want that constructed, as in finished? MR. GORALSKI-In other words, that, and I think it was talked to Mr. Levack about this, that basically we don't want a house built back there until that Town road is built in Phase II. MR. PALING-Okay, and what else have we got? Would you identify yourself for the record, please. MR. LEVACK-Good evening. My name's Mark Levack. MR. PALING-And then there's a letter here of June 11th from Tom Nace. I think we better ask the applicant to kind of tell us, update us about what's going on. MR. NACE-Okay. For the record, my name is Tom Nace, representing Mr. Cerrone. There are two things. With the letter, the first thing is that Brian Fear at the Health Department has not fully reviewed and approved this yet, and we're at the 60 day time limit from initial approval. I talked to Brian today. It's finally on the front of his desk. He's taken a preliminary look at it. I'm supposed to get comments from him tomorrow. So it's imminent - 2 - ""- J (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) within a week or two that it will be approved, but we do need an extension, or an approval of a modification, which would constit~te an extension, so that we can file at the County after BrJ.an approves it. The second issue in the letter is that the lot line between Lots Number 23 and 24 Mr. Cerrone would like to move to the west 25 feet, and also the lot line between Lot 24 and 25 also move to the west 25 feet. The reason for that is that once we've seen it out in the field and know exactly what this hedgerow between 23 and 24 looks like, by moving the lot line that 25 feet, the property line would fall better into the hedgerow, and allow him to build on both of those lots without disturbing the hedgerow. So it's just an accommodation. I think that was one of the original comments the Board had anyway was to try to preserve the hedgerows as much as possible, and this would simply allow us to do that a little better. MR. BREWER-It doesn't change the size of the lots? MR. NACE-It would make Lot 23 a little bit larger, and it would make Lot 25 a little bit smaller, but Lot 25 is already an acre lot. So it would bring it down, I think, to maybe 85 hundredths, I think the number was. MR. PALING-Okay. effect. Okay. Department. Then that wouldn't have any effect, meaningful The only other issue besides that is the Health MR. NACE-That's correct. MR. PALING-And then the road that we talked about. MR. NACE-Correct. MR. PALING-What's involved with the approval of that road, John? What are we asking for there, that it be constructed and approved it sounds like. MR. GORALSKI-Right, that before a house is built on Lot Seven, that area that's shown as deeded access be constructed and accepted by the Town Board. MR. PALING-We could still pass this tonight with that condition. MR. GORALSKI-Yes. I think Mr. Levack just wants to convey the lot at this point. He doesn't have any intention to build at this time. MR. PALING-Yes, okay, and so the only other open item is the approval by the Department of Health. So there's three items that would be in the motion. How does the Board feel about approval with a contingency that the Department of Health approval be obtained before it's final? MR. MACEWAN-I'd do two motions. I'd do a motion to modify, with this deeded access. Then I'd do a separate motion for the 60 day extension he wants on the subdivision. MR. PALING-All right. MR. GORALSKI-If I could clear that up a little, I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, if you vote to modify the lot lines and the phasing plan, that automatically is going to give him the 60 days to file the map, plenty of time. So really all you have to do is vote on the modifications, the two modifications, the lot lines for Lots 23, 24, and 25, and the phasing plan. MR. PALING-And 25 and the phasing plan, okay, and then the DOH is automatic. - 3 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) MR. GORALSKI-Right. They'll have 60 days from tonight to file, and I believe 60 days will be plenty of time. MR. NACE-That's correct. We would come back to the Chairman for re-signing of the plat, and the signing would be as of the approval motion this date, and that would give us our 60 days. MR. GORALSKI-Correct. MR. PALING-Okay. Any other comments on this? Do you want to make a motion? MOTION TO APPROVE MODIFICATION OF SUBDIVISION NO. 1-1997, Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Robert Paling: Modification as follows: Lot 23 moving the westerly boundary line 25 feet. Lot No. 24, moving the westerly boundary line 25 feet. The deeded access that was part of Phase II is incorporated into Phase I, and no construction to take place on the lot until that deeded access is dedicated to the Town, Lot No.7. Duly adopted this 16th day of June, 1997, by the following vote: MR. LEVACK-Craig, can I ask for a clarification on that? I'd like to cut the driveway in, and that could be considered construction. I just wanted to rough cut a driveway, but I have no intentions of putting utilities in or building a house at this point. MR. MACEWAN-I don't think it's necessary for our modification. MR. BREWER-He can cut a driveway in without. MR. MACEWAN-It doesn't have to be part of the motion. MR. LEVACK-Okay. MR. PALING-Okay. AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Rue I , Mr. Stark MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you. NEW BUSINESS: SITE PLAN NO. 22-97 TYPE II DOUBLE A PROVISIONS OWNER: BEN ARONSON ZONE: CR-15 LOCATION: CORNER OF MAIN & SECOND ST. APPLICANT PROPOSES TO CONSTRUCT AN ADDITION TO AN EXISTING MEAT DISTRIBUTION BUSINESS FOR A DRY GOODS WAREHOUSE. SITE PLAN REVIEW IS REQUIRED AS A CONDITION OF AREA VARIANCE 19-1997 APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE: UV 18-1997/AV 19-1997 BEAUTIFICATION COMM.: 6/9/97 WARREN CO. PLANNING: 6/11/97 TAX MAP NO. 134-6-1, 14 LOT SIZE: .91 ACRES SECTION: 179-24 MR. PALING-Okay. Is there someone here representing the applicant? Okay, now this one, John, I believe they were going for additional variances? MR. GORALSKI-Double A Provisions is evolving daily. They have bought property to the south and to the west, okay. They have bought the additional lots to the south and to the west. MR. PALING-Okay. - 4 - "-' J (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) MR. GORALSKI-In order to utilize those lots. MR. BREWER-To the south and to the west? Isn't there a street on the west to the property? MR. GORALSKI-I'm sorry, to the south and to the east. I'm sorry. You're correct, and in order to utilize those lots; they would need Use Variances for those lots also. MR. PALING-Okay. MR. GORALSKI-So what they need to do is go back to the Zoning Board, pursue the variances before they come back here. Probably the thing to do at this point is to simply table this application. If you'd like, the public hearing has been advertised. I'd recommend you open the public hearing, since it has been properly advertised. MR. PALING-Yes. We'll open the public hearing and leave it open. MR. GORALSKI-I would open the public hearing and leave it open. MR. PALING-Yes, and then table it. MR. GORALSKI-And then table it. MR. PALING-Okay. All right. The public hearing on the Double A Provision matter is open, if anyone cares to speak? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED MR. PALING-Okay. If there's no one that cares to speak, and there's no one here, so I'll entertain a resolution motion to table this. MRS. LABOMBARD-All right. MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 22-97 DOUBLE Introduced by Catherine LaBombard who moved for seconded by Timothy Brewer: A PROVISIONS, its adoption, To our meeting on July 22nd, in hopes that Double A Provisions has their variance by then, and the public hearing will remain open. Duly adopted this 17th day of June, 1997, by the following vote: MRS. LABOMBARD-I will make a motion that we will table Site Plan No. 22-1997 until next Tuesday? MR. PALING-No. MR. GORALSKI-No, because they're not going to get their variance by then. I'd say table it for at least 60 days. MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay, until he gets the variance, whatever time that takes. MR. BREWER-Wait a minute. Will that change the Site Plan, if he adds these lots to this? MR. GORALSKI-Well, yes, it will change the Site Plan. MR. BREWER-Then why are we tabling it, because it's going to be a whole new Site Plan, isn't it? MR. GORALSKI-Well, he'd have to withdraw it then, right? I mean, he may not get the variances. In which case, he may come back with this particular Site Plan. - 5 - '- (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) MR. PALING-All right. So lets say he gets the property and gets the variance. Then he has a new Site Plan. MR. GORALSKI-Then he would probably withdraw this Site Plan, or modify the application and come back again. MR. PALING-So we can still leave it tabled. MR. GORALSKI-You can leave it tabled. I would leave the public hearing open, and when he comes back, if he gets his variances and he has a modified Site Plan, if you feel that you should re- advertise the public hearing, you can do that. MR. PALING-We usually put a date on it. MR. SCHACHNER-If we're going to leave the public hearing open, in the hopes of avoiding having to re-advertise, then we really should have a date certain. MR. GORALSKI-Okay. MR. PALING-Yes. MR. SCHACHNER-The second meeting in August? MR. GORALSKI-Yes. You could make it July 22nd. MR. PALING-July 22nd. MR. GORALSKI-Right, because they'll definitely, we can put them on for the 16th for the Zoning Board. MRS. LABOMBARD-That's just our regular meeting, isn't it, July 22nd? MR. PALING-Yes, right. MR. GORALSKI-July 22nd would be your second meeting in July. MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Ruel, Mr. Stark MR. PALING-Okay. On we go. NEW BUSINESS: SITE PLAN NO. 35-92 MODIFICATION HOWARD CARR/QUEENSBURY PLAZA OWNER: ILENE FLAUM ZONE: PC-IA LOCATION: QUEENS BURY PLAZA MODIFICATION REQUEST INCLUDES A REDUCTION FROM THE APPROVED 32,000 SF BUILDING TO A 30,000 SF BUILDING. BUILDING WILL BE LOCATED FURTHER EAST. ALSO, ADDITIONAL TREE PLANTING, CONCRETE CURBED ISLANDS AND AN IMPROVED DRIVE LANE. BEAUTIFICATION COMM.: 6/9/97 WARREN CO. PLANNING: 6/11/97 TAX MAP NO. 103-1-1.1 LOT SIZE: 13.67 ACRES SECTION: 179-22 JIM MILLER, JON LAPPER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT MRS. LABOMBARD-There is no public hearing scheduled. STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 35-92 - Modification, Howard Carr/Queensbury Plaza, Meeting Date: June 17, 1997 "The applicant - 6 - ',,--- -J' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) proposes to modify an approved sit~ p~an for Queensb~ry plaza,by relocating a previously approved bUJ.ldJ.ng and decreasJ.ng the sJ.ze of the building from 32,000 square feet to 30,000 square feet: The previously approved building will be relocated on the south sJ.de of Bank Street on this property. The ZBA has granted setback variances in order to allow this building to have nonconforming setbacks along Bank Street and near a strip of property owned by NIMO to the south. The applicant also plans to modify the existing site plan approval by including new landscaping and site work on this property. The site work shown on the plan includes extending planted islands, widening drive aisles and relocating existing vegetation to other areas of the site. New plantings are proposed to be placed around the relocated building and in parking aisles throughout this property. The applicant has also submitted a grading plan for the area of the site where the 30,000 square foot building will be relocated to. Any comments on grading and drainage from the Town's Engineering Consultant should be addressed prior to taking action on this site plan. The number of parking spaces and the amount of green space on this property will not change from what was previously approved. The applicant is seeking a ROW abandonment from the Town of Queensbury in order to allow this new building to be built over a piece of what is now the Bank Street ROW. The applicant should provide documentation that this small piece of property has been abandoned by the Town before applying for a building permit." MR. GORALSKI-Just to clear that up, it's not, technically, an abandonment. The applicant's actually purchasing that portion of the right-of-way from the Town. The Warren County Planning Board did not have a quorum. So no action was taken. The Beautification Committee, "Jim Miller presented site plan and explained proposed building to be occupied by two tenants. He reviewed changes to existing landscaping - removal of all large yellow painted stones. Timber curves will be replaced with cement curves, enlargement of islands fronting existing 1 story building, installation of new trees and relocation of hemlocks to Quaker Road side. He covered changes to Quaker Road plantings, to be grouping of evergreens and pear trees on hill overlooking Olive Garden. The Committee recommended the owner of the plaza get a site permit to remove the pavement at the old service entrance behind the Olive Garden with trees and grass planted to improve the unsightliness of the dumpster and close the green area on Quaker Road. The Committee also recommended perennial plants such as daylillies, hostas, etc. be added to the full site area, supplemented by annuals seasonally, and planting beds mulched with pine or cedar. Mr. Miller explained service area and plantings around new building and parking area. Committee recommended small cluster plantings and evergreens on the side of the new building fronting Bank Street be added. Committee recommended plantings be installed and maintained by a professional garden/maintenance company. Mr. Miller also explained the green area fronting Quaker Road next to Evergreen Bank would be removed, and the pavement underneath removed and replanted with grass and trees. The Committee also will look to make sure that no substitutions of plantings be made from the plan presented by Mr. Miller. Committee would like to also see more attention to the trees on Route 9 entrance such as low clump bush planting around their bases upon consideration/approval of the Planning Board. Mrs. Carpenter made motion to approve with the recommendations of the Committee, seconded by Ms. Dougherty." MR. PALING-John, do you want to comment on the comment you made in your own report about drainage? MR. GORALSKI-Rist-Frost has reviewed the revised plan, and I'm not sure that I have, I don't know that I have the revised plans in front of me. I don't know when the latest revision was made, but the revised plan and the letter dated June 16, 1997 from Miller Associates has addressed all of the drainage concerns. - 7 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) MR. PALING-Now we don't have that letter, X don't have that letter. MR. GORALSKI-Yes. I just received it today. MR. PALING-Okay. Then why don't we ask the applicant to bring us up to date on the engineering, first, and then the other items that are called for in your letter, and the Beautification Committee. MR. MILLER-Okay. Good evening. representing the applicant. Bill questions. Some of it had to do modifications on this property in the completed as to what has happened. plan. I can go over that. My name is Jim Miller, Levandowski raised a few with, there's been a few past, and his files were not Let me flip to the grading MR. PALING-Okay, and you have this letter, right, John? MR. GORALSKI-I have the letter from Miller Associates dated the 16th. MR. PALING-Okay. You don't have anything from Levandowski? MR. GORALSKI-Yes, and I have a letter from Bill Levandowski saying that the revised plans in the letter dated June 16th address all of his concerns. MR. PALING-Okay, and that's what Jim's going to tell us now. Okay. MR. MILLER-The first question that Bill raised was the last approved plan. This is our proposed building, and the existing storm line now comes from the parking lot, and it comes across the property, and it discharges in the NiMo right-of-way. This whole area in here is low, and it all drains in an easterly direction and heads down toward Hovey Pond. This pipe daylighted in an area over here. At the last site plan approval, it was approved that there had to be an oil separator installed along this line because it was discharging into a wetland and ultimately down into Halfway Brook, and what happened is after the approval, Queensbury Plaza was working with the Town Staff and the oil separator that was installed was actually a custom design, which included two large eight foot diameter catch basin structures with a two foot sump, and a track over the outlet, so oil couldn't flow down the pipe. So they were installed, and I submitted copies of the detail of what was installed to Bill Levandowski. MR. PALING-Now, Jim, I haven't heard, what oil is being separated? MR. MILLER-Well, that's just oils that may be on the parking lot, the surface of the parking lot, and what happens is occasionally, if there's like loading docks areas, or depending on where it's discharged, if there's like a wetland or something down stream, sometimes this is something that's required. So apparently at the last site plan, someone raised that question, and asked that it be installed. So anyway, I brought Bill up to date as to what had happened, and his other question was, since we were re-routing, we're going to have a fire road that comes around here. So we're filling here, and some of our conversations with Jim Martin and John was that they'd like to see this ditch removed. So we were going to put catch basins and piping along the ditch. So what we did, instead of, you can see this existing line goes under the corner of our proposed building. What we did is intercepted that existing line. We'll have two new inlets in this parking area, and then this line will extend around the side with inlets in here instead of the ditch, and then we'll have a catch basin in the back service area. That will discharge at a point down here. So in response to Bill Levandowski's question, what we'll do is reconstruct or construct two new catch basin structures similar to what was here, we're going to replace, and more than likely they're - 8 - "--- ~ (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) going to be new structures. We may salvage the hoods and the frames off them things like that, but we're still going to meet that requirement for the oil separator and the settling basin, and by putting it this area, it'll also pick up the runoff from this service area. What we did do is to keep some of our roof drainage from this building going off to where it was originally discharged, so not everything goes into that line, but it essentially all goes down to the same system as previously. This just allows us to connect all those inlets together. He also talked, we talked back and forth about the size of the outlet, and I had shown it at a 24 inch, and the previous drawing showed it 27, and we actually had a little bit more slope, but we talked back and forth, and our outlet's going to be 27, as previously approved. The other question he had was comments about the utility connections, and we've shown utility connections out into Bank Street, for sewer and water. Right now, there's an electric line that comes around the property to a pole at a point here, and it goes underground to Red Lobster. What'll happen as part of this proposal is that that entire line will be buried and service to this building will come in off of that, a similar fashion. So we addressed those issues, and the last questions he had dealt with showing details, utility connections, catch basins, and piping and those types of things, and we've expanded the detail sheet to include those items that he was looking for, you know, the outlet structure and some of those types of things. So we've included all the construction details that he was looking to see. .. MR. PALING-And he's approved this? MR. MILLER-Yes, he has. MR. PALING-Now, do you want to go right in to the Beautification Committee letter? MR. MILLER-Okay. MR. LAPPER-Jon Lapper and Howard Carr, for the record. As you know, a big part of this plan, as we discussed at the last meeting, is to clean up and improve the site visually, and plantings are a big part of it, and most of what the Beautification Committee said, additional perennials and mulching and stuff, is fine, but there were two comments that they made that Howard can't agree with. He's not permitted, under his lease with Olive Garden, to block the line of site from the intersection, which is that hill right in front of their property right when you're at the light. Not coincidentally you see the Olive Garden sign right in front of you. He's restricted from placing trees there which would block that. So that's something that we can't agree with, and the only other one is that they asked for, the break away access that's behind Olive Garden, that is the only thing on the site that's going to have to stay painted yellow, because that's there for the fire department. When we did the first major site plan change, when we added the Olive Garden, it was acknowledged, and the State told us in the review that that was too close to the signalized intersection, so that should be closed off, but then the fire department said that they needed that for access to get to the building, so we put the. MR. BREWER-I don't remember it that way. MR. LAPPER-That was all part of the approval, that they could break through it with the truck. MR. BREWER-That may well be, but I thought, as X remember it, we discussed blocking that off because of trucks and what not, and at first you put boulders there. So that kills that theory that a truck can't drive over the boulder. There were boulders there. - 9 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) MR. LAPPER-It was light poles that were down, just during the construction. There were two light poles, if I remember. MR. BREWER-I don't ever remember the fire company saying they had to have a, I just remember that we insisted that be blocked off and we can ask the fire company, but I don't. ' MR. LAPPER-I'm pretty sure, it's possible that it might have been from the Planning Board, but I'm sure that that was on the. MR. BREWER-It was from the Planning Board. We said that you close that off, and you can look it up. MR. LAPPER-But I remember as part of that approval that it had to be break away, so that a truck could bust through it if they needed to get to the back of the Plaza there. MR. GORALSKI-Yes, but if you take the barrier down, we can leave it this way. MR. BREWER-If a fire truck had to get in there, they could drive over the lawn. MR. GORALSKI-Yes. If you will agree to remove that, contingent on a letter from the fire company saying that they don't have a problem with it, then we'll just go about it that way. If that's the only concern is that the fire company needs to get in there, I can talk to the Chief of the Fire Company. MR. BREWER-I think the only concern that we had when we first did this was people coming around and cutting out. That was a big issue with closing that off, and then, as I remember, they put something there, and people were just driving around it. MR. MACEWAN-Big, yellow boulders. MR. BREWER-Yes. They were yellow boulders. Maybe they weren't yellow. I don't remember what color they were, but, and then they put the barricade on. MR. LAPPER-Behind Staples there, it's very narrow, in terms of truck access, especially in the winter. So I think that my recollection is that there was a concern that if somebody, if emergency vehicles needed to get back there, they wanted to be able to maintain that, so it would be plowed in the winter and not blocked, but I mean, you know, it's up to you guys. MR. BREWER-I don't remember that, but it could be. remember that. We can look it up anyway. Can't we? I don't MR. MACEWAN-Lets follow John's recommendation and proceed that way. I don't have a problem with that. MR. GORALSKI-What I would recommend is that you go with the recommendation to close that off and landscape it, contingent on approval by the Fire Company. MR. PALING-Okay, and it's landscaping only that you're proposing back there, no other kind of barrier? MR. GORALSKI-Correct. MR. PALING-Okay. MR. LAPPER-That whole thing is within a right-of-way, isn't it, in the County Right-of-Way? MR. MILLER-Yes, it is, and I've raised that issue when I talked to - 10 - "-- '--" (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) them and, you know, they felt that it should be pursued with DOT to try to have that removed, and I wasn't part of the last modification. So I didn't know. I told them we would have to look into that and see if it's possible, because I thought it might have been emergency exit. MR. BREWER-Originally that was an entrance for the Plaza or whatever and then when we made all the entrances and whatever in the begi~ning, when this first all started, the revitalization of this, there was a lot of conversation about closing that entrance or exit off, and that's how it evolved. HOWARD CARR MR. CARR-Well, as X recall, from operationally, we had this break away barrier concept that we came up with that were nothing more than plastic poles and these fittings that fit into the ground. They didn't work, because everybody was driving through them. MR. BREWER-Right. MR. CARR-And then Dave Hatin and I came up with what you see there now, which is really nothing more than a four by four sitting on two four by fours, and there's two metal pins that we drilled a hole into it, and it sits there and it's been effective, in terms of blocking the traffic from coming through. MR. BREWER-Right. MR. CARR-And he was very happy with that. MR. GORALSKI-The concern that the Beautification Committee has, and I'll be quite honest with you, I get a lot of complaints about, is the unsightliness of the dumpsters and stuff back there. So that's what they're trying to address. MR. CARR-John, and I appreciate that. I have taken this up, now, with the people from Olive Garden, only about 30 times. The problem that we've got to deal with is that the elevation of Quaker Road at that point is substantially higher than the building, because it rises quite severely, in terms of slope, if you're sitting at the light, waiting to go west, and you can look right down into it. We're going to have to build a wall that's as tall as the building, so that they can't see it. MR. GORALSKI-If you continued that hedge that you have along there, that would go a long way in softening the impact of all those dumpsters there. MR. BREWER-Aren't they enclosed anyway? MR. CARR-They ~ enclosed, but the problem is that when you're sitting up above it, you can see into it. MR. GORALSKI-Well, they're not all enclosed. There's one that's behind that wall, but then they have two more than are for recyclables that aren't enclosed, plus they have regular containers like the kind you would put out at the curb. They have four or five of them that are just sitting out there also. MR. BREWER-Isn't it in our Ordinance that commercial dumpsters or whatever have to be enclosed? MR. GORALSKI-There's a, it says, trash receptacles, and we've been in court over whether or not recycling bins are trash receptacles, and there's some question about that. MR. CARR-But I can tell the Board this. Olive Garden has agreed to - 11 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) say to us, you design it, we'll build it. They've already put, I mean, they have made the commitment in writing. You design it for us, what's acceptable to you, they'll build it. MR. BREWER-Just enclose everything. MR. CARR-That's not so easy, because we've got three designs already that the waste removal companies will not accept, because they can't get a truck into them. We've tried to extend them. We've tried to come out with it. MR. MACEWAN-I think that particular corner right there, he's saying, a lot of little things making up one biq thing. MR. GORALSKI-Right, but obviously landscaping it is not going to hurt the problem. It's only going to help. MR. MACEWAN-Right. Now, whether adding this other wall or building an enclosure around it is going to help it or not, I mean, aesthetically, it probably will, it will give you less to look at, but the situation is that, is it going to be functional? MR. BREWER-There's really nothing you can do about looking down on to it, absolutely nothing but if you did put some shrubs in or whatever, I can't imagine that there's not a simple way to put a cover around that dumpster. I just can't fathom it. MR. CARR-You get the job to design it. MR. BREWER-X get the job to design it? MR. CARR-We've had, Olive Garden sent their architect. MR. BREWER-That's the problem, you've got architects and engineers doing it. MR. LAPPER-But what can you commit to? MR. CARR-Olive Garden has said to me, you design it, we'll build it, but we've got to get the okay that the trash company can get their truck into it, and that's the issue. MR. GORALSKI-What's the problem with closing that entrance off and putting some shrubs there? MR. CARR-That's not going to solve your problem, John. I've got to put, you've got to put a 30 foot shrub in. MR. GORALSKI-What I'm saying is, it's going to help. MR. CARR-If we put a six foot hedge up? MR. GORALSKI-Yes. MR. CARR-John, the walls that surround the dumpster now are over six foot high. They're taller than X am. They don't block it. MR. BREWER-What he's talking about is when you're driving up the road, you'd be looking right into them, rather than looking into nothing and seeing the building. MR. CARR-No, I mean, we'll do the shrubs, if that's what's going to make everybody happy. MR. LAPPER-Howard's not saying he won't do that. MR. CARR-No. - 12 - '''-.- '--" (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) MR. LAPPER-He's saying that that's not enough. MR. BREWER-No, I understand exactly what he's saying. I think, why don't you have somebody from the trash company go there and ask them what would be acceptable. MR. CARR-We've already done that. They tell us take the gate off it. That's what they told us. You've got to remember what happens there, four o'clock in the morning when a guy rolls in with that truck, you know, it's tough enough to get him to close the gate. I mean, I look at these things from a practical point of view, and that's the problem. I mean, we've tried to deal with the recyclable things. I've also got an issue with their bread trays. They've got this rolling cart that comes in, that stacks the rolls and the bread, all right, and they leave it outside. To me it looks terrible. We've addressed it with them, in writing. They've come back to us and said, tell us what you want, we'll build it, but I can't get anybody to make a commitment. If we build the wall higher, that they sit against, and there's an electric meter there, Niagara Mohawk won't let us bring the wall out, because we're too close to the transformer. Every time I turn, here, I mean, we've got a lot of things happening in a very little space. MR. BREWER-I haven't really looked at it that close, but I just can't fathom that there's not enough room to go like that, with a swinging gate, and put the dumpster and stuff inside of it. MR. GORALSKI-It's tough for a truck to maneuver. quite a bit of room. They do need MR. BREWER-Well, if they come at four o'clock in the morning, why couldn't they come around this way and drive into it? Like we have at our store, we have a, where the truck picks it up in the front, instead of coming this way, why don't they come this way, and drive right into it. pick it up, dump it, and then just go right back around like this and out. MR. PALING-Is that the only time trucks go back there, is at four o'clock in the morning? MR. CARR-Well, they do rubbish pick up very early in the morning, four or five o'clock in the morning. MR. PALING-How about other kinds of trucks? Are there any other kinds that use it? MR. GORALSKI-Yes. MR. CARR-Yes. UPS comes through there. MR. PALING-Well, then they can't. MR. BREWER-Well, I'm saying, Bob, if the garbage truck is the problem, he comes at four or five o'clock in the morning, there's literally nobody there, he could corne in. MR. PALING-I have no disagreement with that, but if there are other trucks that corne at different times, and they have the same problem. MR. BREWER-Yes, but they're not doing anything with the garbage. MR. CARR-The garbage guys are the problem because they have to line up the truck, grab a hold of the dumpster and then it flips it over the truck. MR. PALING-Well, why can't you do what Tim's saying, and corne in the opposite way? - 13 - / (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) MR. BREWER-Do you see what I'm saying? If you have, this is where we're talking about, right here. Where is the dumpster? MR. CARR-Right up in this corner, here. MR. BREWER-Okay. Well, really you haven't got room to build on. MR. CARR-Well, what you've got here is you've got a wall that comes out here now. Okay, and then you've got a wing here like this. I'm not drawing this exactly right. Now the truck comes in here. He gets in here, okay, he needs to get the truck in there, but the problem I've got is we've got a door coming out of here. So we wanted to do is just extend that. That doesn't work because it reduces the angle of the truck. MR. BREWER-Okay. What if that truck, in the morning, came around this way, picked up the garbage. MR. CARR-It's a front loader. MR. BREWER-Yes, a front loader. he came in here, well, I mean, Who's there? In the morning, nobody's there, if it's five o'clock in the morning. MR. CARR-He cannot turn this truck around in this distance. MR. BREWER-That's not what I'm saying, Howard. If he came in and picked it up here, dumped it into his truck, and then he could corne right back out this way, couldn't he, and get out? MR. CARR-No, because you've got to bring this truck and you've got to get it this way. MR. BREWER-You mean you can't drive a truck around here and get straight? Is it that tight? MR. CARR-You've got to remember something. The embankment's here. MR. BREWER-How much room is there? MR. CARR-Jim, what's the distance of the driveway? MR. GORALSKI-I think it's only 12 feet. MR. MILLER-Which one? MR. CARR-Right here, right around the back side of the Olive Garden. What's the scale on this? MR. MACEWAN-It's narrow. MR. MILLER-This is so. It's probably, it's less than 20 feet by 16. MR. BREWER-I can't imagine that he couldn't go over there and figure out a way to do it. MR. CARR-We've had an architect go in. Olive Garden's brought their original architect back to figure out a way, and we can't get. MR. MILLER-I think a lot of the problem is you're up at the top and you're looking right down, like looking down an alley way. MR. BREWER-I understand that 100%. MR. PALING-I don't think you can make this site that pretty. If you do fix the dumpsters, you're still looking at air-conditioning - 14 - '\ \- --..../ (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting and fans and everything else. MR. MILLER-What I've been trying to do is put some medium sized trees in, so that they would be up high enough, they'd be in your eye level looking down into the service area. You'd look over them to see the signs of the building, like Bradford Pears or crabapples o something like that in there, and it'll screen it pretty good in the summer time. 6/17/97) MR. BREWER-It screens it here, when you're here, but when you get up here there's nothing you can do to screen it. MR. CARR-Because when you get up here at the light, you're looking right onto the roof. MR. GORALSKI-Yes. MR. MILLER-I think if you get something around the corner here, Tim, so that you're looking down, and stop that long view down, it's like an alley way here, you look right down and you see everything. MR. PALING-Okay. How about we go back a little bit to the beginning here and tell us what it is you propose to do. MR. LAPPER-For beautification? MR. PALING-What is it you propose to do in this spot, or how are you going to do it? MR. LAPPER-Olive Garden? MR. PALING-Yes. MR. CARR-Well, I think what we're proposing is what's shown on the plan, what Jim has said, to plant some trees along the northwest corner there, or whatever, right there. MR. PALING-Low growing trees. They're going to be small. MR. MILLER-Somewhat medium tree, like a Bradford Pear, something that's going to get up high enough. It's going to have some screening effect. It's not going to get so big it's going to grow and cover the signs on the building, that's part of the lease. MR. PALING-Okay. MR. MILLER-And also all the Hemlocks that were out here, we're looking to transport those, and try to group those so we have some evergreens mixed in, in locations, in key locations, so we've got some evergreen screen, since we're moving them out of the parking lot. We're going to relocate them, use them in some mass plantings along the back, primarily in this back area here, and then these areas. MR. PALING-All right. Now you have the roadway open back there, right? The way I'm looking at your drawing. MR. MILLER-This here? MR. PALING-No, where the trucks corne through. MR. MILLER-Yes. MR. PALING-All right. Are you going to do anything to that, any kind of a barrier, temporary or otherwise? MR. MILLER-No. We were just looking at doing some landscaping - 15 - ~ (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) along that bank and provide more screening. MR. PALING-Now what about automobiles getting back there? can't? They MR. CARR-I mean, there's access to it. It's a wide open. MR. PALING-Right. Okay. So they can do it, and there's nothing there that's even to tell them not to. MR. MILLER-Well, part of that is a fire access. open. It's got to be MR. PALING-Yes, but you don't want people driving back there really or parking back there, worse. MR. CARR-That's never been a problem. MR. BREWER-The only reason people went out there in cars was because of that exit there, and they've eliminated that problem. MR. MACEWAN-What's the area you're talking about where the Olive Garden doesn't want you planting trees to obstruct their signs? Back there? MR. CARR-Really at the point. MR. PALING-On the front. MR. MACEWAN-So anything in between those two sets of existing trees there. MR. MILLER-That's why what X was trying to do is pick up some plantings more around the side, where we've got the problem with the dumpsters. Actually the front of the building is very nicely done. MR. PALING-I think they're doing about the best they can with this. This is a difficult situation. MR. MACEWAN-So just to recap, widening the drive aisles, too, right? MR. MILLER-Down through here. What we're going to do is widen this out 28 feet through here, and construct islands and landscape these islands. Plus the concrete curves are going to go in in place of the timber. These trees in here are going to be transplanted from these islands, to rebuild these, and then we had some additional planting down the main aisle. MR. MACEWAN-So that access aisle right there, the one that you said you're re-widening there, that will end up becoming as wide the main aisle going in? MR. MILLER-Yes. The other thing we did, one of the problems here is the radii on these two curves are pretty tight, so what we're going to do is flatten those out so that we'll come in toward Staples. It's a little bit easier to get around in, and then the modification that we're looking at, you see in red here, that was the previous location from the building that was approved, and basically the problem was, this was going to be the front, and we were going to have a lot of parking in the back. So the idea was to just relocate that back here. So that essentially you have a designated parking area for that new building. MR. BREWER-Do we have a tenant for it, or tenants? You're not at liberty to tell us? - 16 - ',,- '~' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting MRS. LABOMBARD-Is it one? 6/17/97) MR. CARR-The official statement is, no comment. MR. LAPPER-You don't have anybody signed up. MR. CARR-No one is signed. MR. PALING-Now the balance of what the Beautification Committee asks for, removed pavement and so on, is going to be done. Right? MR. MILLER-Yes. MR. PALING-You agree with that? MR. MILLER-Yes. The yellow rocks and the curbing, all that is going to be done. Now I guess with that driveway, it's going to be looked into to see if that, the driveway on Quaker Road. MR. GORALSKI-Right. We'll talk to the Fire Company to make sure that they don't need that as access. If they do, then it's just going to have to stay. If they don't need that as access, you're just going to have to approach DOT. I'm sure they'll give you a work permit to tear up that road cut. MR. LAPPER-You're going to take care of the Fire Department. MR. GORALSKI-Yes. MR. LAPPER-And it would be subject to DOT's approval, because they have jurisdiction. MR. GORALSKI-Right. DOT has jurisdiction. They're going to have to gi ve you a work permit to tear up the road cut. What I'd suggest you do is continue the grass area, and just add two more Bradford Pears along that line. MR. MILLER-The perennials, that came about as one of the things we had proposed in the new islands was planting some daylillies and perennials. We've been have a little bit of success. They can take the snow plow and they die back, and then they grow back up. So they've been holding up much better than the shrubs. So the Beautification Committee liked that idea, and I think obviously (lost words) I'm sure Howard would extend it to some of the other islands. Okay, and the daylillies are part of that proposal. That's what we had proposed. I guess they were saying they'd like to see more of it, but I think what X would suggest is that we go with it on the modification and if it's successful, it certainly could be continued. MR. MACEWAN-Well, how do you determine that, though? I mean, how do we police that as a Board or the Planning Department or Building and Codes say, gee, it worked good this time, by the way now we want you to put it in the rest of the Plaza? MR. LAPPER-Jim, what's that that you're? MR. BREWER-The flowers. MR. LAPPER-Daylillies? MR. MILLER-Well, we used some perennials in some of the islands, rather than shrubs, because they die back in the winter time, and they don't damage by the snow, and then they come back in the spring. What the Beautification Committee suggested was, you can do it in every one. MR. MACEWAN-Well, you know what I would suggest, maybe kind of help - 17 - ,--' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) out Beautification and help out us with policing it, if everybody else is in agreement with this, is just put it in the high profile places, the main entrances coming in, right there at the corner where that access road abuts in your main access coming in. Do that. MRS. LABOMBARD-Just put them in right now where you were planning to and see how they do, and then put some more in next year. MR. BREWER-See how they do for how long, though, Cath? That's what Craig's point was. Then they've got to come back and talk to us about flowers? MR. MACEWAN-I mean, we're trying to tie this in for improvements, with what Beautification said. MRS. LABOMBARD-Well, I'm just worried about what the salt effect would have on them. MR. MILLER-My concern is actually for the client. I mean, we're in for a modification just for this last building, and he's agreeing to do a lot of other things, and to be honest, I'm not comfortable planting things allover the entire Plaza for this last building that he really has a site plan approval for. That's all. MRS. LABOMBARD-Right. MR. MILLER- I think he's been pretty agreeable on most of the improvements we've been talking about. MRS. LABOMBARD-I'd say I have no problem with what you've proposed here, and I think you're doing your best. MR. PALING-Okay. This is a modification. There is no public hearing. So does somebody want to try, this motion is going to be kind of a hard one. We'll have to be patient. MR. BREWER-Well, when do you anticipate you're going to start the construction? MR. CARR-Our goal right now is probably early Fall, if things were to go as planned. MR. BREWER-I guess what my point is, is I would like to see all the improvements done before any CO is given. MR. CARR-I don't have a problem with that unless we end up with a construction period over the winter, and then j ust give us a reasonable period of time following that to get the landscaping in. MR. BREWER-Do the same thing we did before with the bond or whatever? Didn't we do that with a bond? MR. CARR-A bond or cash, either one. MR. BREWER-Okay. That's fine with me. Well, how about maybe just get the back done, minimum, in conjunction with the building? In other words, tearing up the blacktop and putting the dirt back down? MR. CARR-Well, the tearing up of the black top, we have got it out to bid. We expect the last bid in probably Friday, and we'll probably pull that trigger, I would say within two or three weeks. MR. BREWER-Great. MR. CARR-We've got another issue to resolve in the back with an electrical line, because we're installing a sign, and Niagara - 18 - \ '---- -_/ (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) Mohawk are in, as of yesterday, a battle over whether they have an easement or don't. So, that's another issue. MR. BREWER-All right. Well, we can put that in there, the improvements to be made before CO, and then if it gets time where you need a CO and the improvements aren't made, you can come back and we can talk about the money factor or whatever. Is that fine? MR. CARR-Yes. The only concern I have is if we start. MR. MACEWAN-We did it with the Olive Garden. MR. BREWER-Yes. MR. CARR-I'm trying to remember what we did. MR. BREWER-I think you came back and you put up some kind of a bond or whatever. MR. MACEWAN-Actually what he had was he had a letter from the landscape. MR. GORALSKI-He did a cash escrow. MR. CARR-Yes, I think we did a cash escrow. MR. BREWER-Yes. MR. MACEWAN-I'm in agreement. MR. BREWER-Yes. That's what I'm saying. If he doesn't foresee doing it or making it happen before the improvements are done, he comes back and we do it in one night, and he's done. MR. GORALSKI-Well, he can either come back, or you can say, if the landscaping is not completed at the time that they are seeking a Certificate of Occupancy, that they produce a contract with their landscaper, along with providing a cash escrow in the amount of the balance of the contract. MR. CARR-That's fine. MR. GORALSKI-This way you don't have to come back here. MR. CARR-We can do it at an administrative level. That would be great. MR. PALING-Okay. All right. I'll try a motion on this, but I might need help as I'm going through. MOTION TO APPROVE MODIFICATION TO SITE PLAN NO. 35-92 HOWARD CARR/QUE ENS BURY PLAZA, Introduced by Robert Paling who moved for its adoption, seconded by Craig MacEwan: with the following provisions: That access to Quaker Road be approved by the fire department, or that the access be cut off, and this is subj ect to DOT approval. That the provisions of the Beautification Committee proposal of 6/9/97 be followed with the exception that plantings along Quaker Road, above and below, will be in accordance with the print SP One through Four dated 6/16/97, with the exception of the requirement for plantings at the intersection of Routes 9 and 254, and that perennials be installed at the entrance from Route 9 and at the intersection just north of Red Lobster. That no CO be issued until all elements of the site plan are completed, unless a bond or cash escrow in the amount necessary to complete the work along with a contract, and that also the plan be contingent on the owner acquiring either an easement, lease, license, or title to the Niagara Mohawk property on the - 19 - J (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 6/17/97) southeast corner of the property for purposes of providing an asphalt, paved fire lane as shown on Sheet SP-l. That this modification does not impact our previous SEQRA determination. Duly adopted this 17th day of June, 1997, by the following vote: MR. GORALSKI-What about the easement for NiMo? MR. LAPPER-The easement, I think as I explained last time, we were first proposing to NiMo to purchase it, and now it looks like the simplest way is going to be to get either a lease, a long term lease or a license, which is going to be for that 22 foot, 30 foot wide drive aisle, which is going to be along the NiMo power line on the south side of the new building. So we have to acquire the rights from NiMo to be able to put in a paved road for fire access. Whether we get to purchase it ultimately or a lease or a license is undetermined, but any of those would be sufficient to have that constructed there. AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Rue 1 , Mr. Stark MR. LAPPER-Thank you. MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you, gentlemen. more business to conduct. Okay. We do have some MR. SCHACHNER-Bob, I think what the Planning Board should consider now is basically ending the public meeting and meeting with myself, as your Counsel, and then the public meeting is over. Maria can go home. John can stay, and we can all stay and talk. You're allowed to meet with me, as your Counsel, to discuss legal matters any time you want. MR. BREWER-Okay. That's fine with me. MR. PALING-All right. Is this Executive Session? MR. SCHACHNER-No, it's not. Executive Session is a portion of a public meeting. This would be, the public meeting's over, and you would now be meeting with me, as your Counsel, in an attorney/client privileged discussion. MR. BREWER-So just adjourn the meeting? MR. SCHACHNER-Correct. MR. PALING-Yes, okay. MR. BREWER-I'll make a motion to adjourn. MR. MACEWAN-Second. On motion meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Robert Paling, Chairman - 20 -