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1993-04-05 SP WKSH QUE ENS BURY RECREATION COMMISSION SPECIAL WORKSHOP APRIL 5, 1993 - 4:00 P.M. HOVEY POND PARK PRESENTATION PRESENT: Commissioners Auer, Hersh, LaBombard, Maine & Simmonds EXCUSED: Commissioners Carusone & Laba~ore Ton BOARD: Direc~or Hansen & Ass'~. Direc~or Lovering Be~~y Monahan & Sue Goe~z ALSO PRESENT: QUZENSBURY CENTRAL FIRE CO: POST STAR: Che~ Sou~h - Paul Er~el~ WATKINS GARDER CERTER: Pe~e Wa~kins FRIENDS OF HP: Wally Hirsh Bob Eddy & M.L. Gosline BINLEY FLORIST: BEAUTIFICATION: Margare~ Seney & Judy S. We~herbee GF INDEPENDENT LIVING CENTER: Nancy Calano & Harvey Raymond SPECTATOR: George Wiswall Simmonds Ummm, my name is Sharron Simmonds. I'm the Chair of the Recreation Commission (RC). I'd like to take a minute for each of us to go around the room and introduce ourselves and basically, so. . . . just why. . . . and who you are and what you're doing here. And, then, we'll precede. The time line that! suggest is, no later than 6:00 p.m. because I think 2 hours is a lot and, if anything doesn't get accomplished in that period of time, perhaps, another meeting would need to be scheduled. But,.! stay until 6:00 p.m., and, I know, ! have an appointment myself at 6:30 p.m.. Aaah, Dave will go and you're next. Hersh I'm Dave Hersh (DH) and I'm one of the commissioners on the RC committee. Welcome. Goetz I'm Sue Goetz (SG) and I'm a TB member and I'm on the TB committee for both RC and Beautification (BC). Monahan Betty Monahan (BM), TB. Wiswall Gosline . 2 I'm George Wiswall (GW). Marylee Gosline (ML), Friends of Hovey Pond (FHP). Calano Nancy Calano (NC). (GFILC) for Accessibility. GF Independent Living Center Raymond LaBombard - Maine Lovering Simmonds Eddy (BC). Harvey Raymond (HR) from GFILC. I'm Jack LaBombard from the RC. I'm Charlie Maine, also member of the RC. I'm Steve Lovering, Pks. & Rec. Dept. (PR). Bob....could you introduce yourself. I'm Bob Eddy (BE) with the Beautification Committee Seney I'll be right back. Aaaah, we were downstairs at the other room. Monahan Hansen Oh. Harry Hansen, PRo Simmonds We're waiting for a few people. to come upstairs who apparently went downstairs. The auditors are downstairs in the room that we were hoping to meet in because they need to be here at this point and time. So, that's why we're up. But, the....I think the chairs are nice and comfortable. Are you all comfortably seated? Okay. ML, you're going to be leading your group or how is this going to work? Gosline downstairs. Simmonds No. . . aaah, Chet South is going to,.... he must be Okay. Gosline And, Margaret Seney and Bert Weber was suppose to be here, but apparently he can't be, so he sent this diagram. Simmonds there....? You have copies of what he's made or....is Gosline He just....aaah, Mr. Hansen, just handed it to me. I didn't even realize he wasn't coming. ~. '} ... . · 3 Simmonds Okay. Bob's still passing out goodies for us, so it'll take a couple of seconds. Eddy Simmonds I don't know if I got everybody or what. What's that. Eddy I'll start off this...situation here maybe someone else.....(do) you have all your numbers here? Simmonds Aaaah. . . . . Lovering Why don't you hold off for a few minutes. (BM- There's some coming upstairs. They were in the wrong room.) Eddy Oh. Maine ML, this map was prepared. Who prepared this map? BOCES. This was a black and white of the one that And, then we just colored it and added to it. Gosline you have. Simmonds Hello. Unknown Hi. How you're doing? Unknown How are you? Simmonds Wally? Hirsh Yeah. Simmonds I'm Sharron Simmonds (SS). Hirsh Hi. Simmonds Welcome, join us. Have a seat. Simmonds I don't think so. Do we have enough chairs now? Eddy Did Chet South come yet? Did everybody get one of these? Monahan Simmonds Bob, I have one of these at home. You may want to use that for someone. I'm going to get started. Is everyone from downstairs, up? I guess Chet's not here yet and, I don't think he was downstairs, so, how would you like to proceed? Is . .. 4 there someone else who has a time constraint that would like to go first? Or.... Calano I'll start out. Extremely warm in here. I'll make it. Harvey and I are from the GFILC and, we have a lot of concerns about accessibility and .all aspects of Q, whether it be shopping or stores or parks, schools, everything. And when we heard this park was taking shape and form....having a lot of people with disabilities go over to Crandall Park, it's accessible, but completely accessible. Pretty rugged terrain over there for wheelchairs and people with mobility problem and, we were thinking that this would be a fantastic place in Q, the first of its kind to be in a hundred percent accessible park. For...everyone. For the elderly and people with disability and, we were just asking that the walkways be hard surface or paved. Accessible parking. Should there be bathrooms have an accessible? I know that maybe in the future...and, I think we handed out some things with around 10 suggestions on there that we would like to see implemented. Around the walkways, around the pond, you know, if there was some type of edging or something....say, somebody was visually impaired, using a cane, could at least feel, up against before going over into the ditch there. I mean, down into the pond. The gazebo accessible with it...a small ramp or at ground level. Dr. Braico did some wonderful plans on an accessible fishing dock for children. . Simmonds He's met with our commission and we've got those plans. They are great. Calano Yeah, they are and....there's not too much that has to be done. Maybe where the benches are, have a cement pad underneath or wheelchair to put on its brake and aaaah....well, just what's mentioned here. Pretty self-explanatory, but there...are more and more disabled people, you might say, coming out of the closet because of that same accessibility, transportation and more places now because of disabilities act trying to become accessible and we've been in business now six years, serving the disabled in this area. Saratoga, Warren and Washington County and we're swamped with people wanting to get out and shop and go to restaurants and go to parks and it'll be great, if Q could make this park...accessible. Simmonds Thank you very much for furnishing us with this list. Does anyone have any questions? Did everyone get a copy of this? We have some people who just arrived. I trust that these, these signatures on the attached are..... Calano Well, we had started it. I just left a sheet of paper on my desk at work and as people carne in, we have pictures of 5 the HP put up in the office and stuff for interested people that would like to either donate time or materials to it and those are just a few signatures that carne in and said, "yes II they were interested in volunteering using the park. Simmonds Volunteering to help or using..... Calano maintaining. Yes. With the planting or weeding or just Simmonds Is there anything else you'd like to..... Hirsh No. I think she pretty well covered it. I think she did well. I think that .the.... the most important thing that....I think that to keep in mind is that and I know Q....Q's been doing a fantastic job with that and that is, you know, keeping the disabled population starting to recognize the disabled population more and more. Aaah, misuse their....you know, there aaah. . . what do I wanna say? Rights. To accessibility to all places of public accommodation. And, this will be fantastic. And, I think that with the ABA, in fact, that, you know, it kind of.. .it kind of gives them little leverage to...as to....how you might wanna handle that...you know, whether or not it's a big question mark. We're looking at federal laws there with the ABA, so, it's really beneficial, it's gonna....it's really gonna do a great deal for....disabled population. We know that for a fact with the Simmonds Well, thank you for your information and input and we maybe in touch, if we have any questions. Is there anything else? Aaah, Mr. South...is he here? South Right here. Simmonds Hi. How are you? South Great. Simmonds to. go next? It's good to see you. Ummmm. Would you like Chet Or how would you like to work this? Gosline Bob Eddy wants to speak. Simmonds Bob. Eddy I...most of you know my background and interest in the T of Q....25 years, dedicated to the T of Q and this is the most enthusiastic post that I've run onto. It's been an awful lot of....this isn't just...this isn't just aaah happen. Aaaah, or .. 6 just....cause we had something to do. It aaah...a lot of people were involved in this. It was ummm...of course, the GFIL, as you heard. The Watkins and the Garden Time and Binleys were involved. Can you put their information in? The part that I like about it is, it's a hundred percent accessible to handicapped. I....back in '84, I was over in Great Britain, I went to Wisley Garden which is the Royal Horticultural Society gardens of Great Britain. And, ummm, they had a group of demonstration gardens, there, and so, aaah, I took pictures of it cause I got information on it and then in '89, I had a possibility of building a large garden here in Q. Unfortunately, my benefactor died, so I didn't carry out my plan. But, I...when I was over in '89, I got an appointment with the Curator of Wisley garden, especially, so we could make plans and ummmm, I spent about a hour with him and went around in the gardens to renew my acquaintanceship with him. And, then.. .when.. . next things begin to shape up with aaaah....for HP, especially park for the handicapped, I aaaah, wrote to him and I said that my time 'would with you was not entirely lost. We were....possibility of having something very good in Q on the basis of the concept of I...originally had, but ummmm, he sent me back a copy and, I think all of you got it...a copy of this, I have the original of that and cut it down from a 14 x 17....no 11 x 17 into a 11 x 14, cause...make it possible to get a hold of it. But they've put this garden in to a.... a. . . opened it May 1st, last year. So we gotta....we have a lot of people that ummm, put their work into this, not just local people. We got the people who....ideas are fantastic, but we got something that people want to offer. I aaah, we have some gardens here, but ummm...some of the others might want to, specifically, talk about. But, ummm....there's a....up in the aaaah park in the center, above the pond, there is a garden that we planned. Oh, in here, but ummm, one of the members of the commission. It was one of the.....(Gosline - Bert Weber. Bert Weber, is that who you're thinking about?) No. I was thinking of ummm....myself and Bert. I made a plan which is been pretty much followed with that ummm....And, then we'll....Chet was ummmm.. ..work with the ummmmm, aaaah, fire dept. cause he's a member there and there.....and were planning on a....eventually, planning on a nature trail field in the aaaah, by the pond, in back of the firehouse on the fire dept. property there. Then, aaah...we've got the parking lot, the whole basic plan was made by Harry and this fellow (Miller)? And, we'd just taken that plan and added to it. Then that pink part that you see above the pond there is....probably be one of the last things that we do. But being we were planning on a botanical garden there...we're planning not only a garden for handicapped people with....aaaah... .the ummmm. ...over there. . . Wisley Gardens, they have a planning benches.... where people can draw their wheelchairs up to and work from a planning bench. We're planning to put some of that in. It won't be probably the first year, but it'll be done eventually. And, then .. - 7 aaaah, we're gonna have a section there that will be for blind handicapped that uuuum...with fragrant flowers. Cause of course they're...they have different aspect then those of us that have all of our faculties. But the beauty of it is, that aaaah, not only is it going to be for those that are handicapped, but for those that are....have all their faculties and can enjoy it too. And, not an act...not intended to be active garden. We never had in mind, I don't think. And, a... be a passive. . . a. . . passive park. Aaaah, the historian is planning on a placque or something....I'm not sure just exactly what you would call it over in the upper right hand corner there near the outlet. (ML - Timeline.) Yeah. And, aaah, that part there backs up to those buildings on Quaker Road. And, the other part there, of course, in the upper left hand corner is Lafayette Street. So, aaaah, maybe you'll want (unknown) then of course, on the consultation of Herb....aaah Weber who is the ummmm horticultural....the horticultural department of ummmm BOCES and he will not only....he is the one that set that map up as I recall. Or painted that....set it up and colored it and aaaaah his...BOCES students will work in the garden. So really, we're incorporating everybody into this and that certainly the nursery men and two of them are represented here today and they're going to....be a good help to us as we move along. You've been a great help to us to this point. Maybe somebody wants to be specific about some of the other things in terms of the dock. You got aaaah, I think in your materials here, you got a picture of what the dock is....Dr. Braico submitted. And, ummmm, this is a fishing dock. You....why don't you aaaah make it, not only accessible to everybody, but we didn't want people to get in the way of each other. So, we're planning on having the fishing part of the.....people with all their faculties, particularly, the youngsters over in the upper park there, beyond the botanical garden there. That'll be the fishing dock. (ML - From the fishing dock.) Yeah. And, then beyond that winding path. I would like to see one more thing done. I'd like to see from here, around the pond, a walkway set up there. It isn't on the map now. But, I think it should be connected. And, especially, so that the handicapped, you know, me and other people can get to the gazebo and the fishing dock. Perhaps, somebody else now want to add to that. Be specific. Hansen Bob will you start that list around please. Eddy Pardon. Hansen Start that list around. Thank you. Simmonds Who wants to go next? · 8 Gosline Probably aaaah.....Mr. South. South I'm aaah representing the Queensbury Central Volunteer Fire Co (QCVFC) who are neighbors to this project and I have reported to them on three or four different occasions our idea....our ideas. We, very much favor aaah, the way this is corning about. There's a lot of donated materials that are going to be solicited. A lot haven't been solicited yet, but we have people that we know are going to come forth, we're just waiting to see, if the RC will get behind this proposal and somewhat adopt it. Behind the firehouse, we have a thick growth of vegetation, but in, behind that firehouse there is ferns and different types of wild flowers and things that grow. We had to take and put a path in there two years ago, when the T was filling that in over in that area to extricate their bulldozer and backhoe something for the mud. Why, with that path, that path has developed a little growth. But, as we were walking over in through there, we discovered some of the ferns and things and it would be real nice, if, on the fire company property, if this plan develops, then we have a nature walk, we have additional parking to the rear of the building which would facilitate the parking which the T has planned to put in. Aaaah, and we...we think that aaaah...that this would be beneficial to the T. We're looking at a historic area. To begin with we're looking at an area that's always been....back up into the 40's, a beautiful place. But, aaah...on....Lafayette Street, we took somewhat of a rundown area with a couple three houses over there and actually improved it. One of the reasons we spent a lot of money on the firehouse was the fact that the previous TB had planned this park and we wanted our building to correspond and also match the nature type of this park. Thus, the dirt, and buffed bricks and so on and so forth. And one time, we even considered putting two bathrooms at the end of our building which would be facing further out into the woods, mainly for the purpose of this park, but we deleted that from our bldg. plans at the request of certain people. There is a good possibility and urnmm, I was going to talk to Harry about this later, not necessarily today, but there is a good possibility that this year the Federal Government is funneling more money into the job partnership training act which is known as JPTA and there is a good possibility we could have additional youth providing we had the proper crew chiefs from the T to help get this plan started. And, to help...augment some of the work that would be being done by volunteers and so on and so forth. This is a big consideration. I throw this out because as a member of the Warren County Board of Supervisors (WCBS), who I am not representing here today, I am representing the fire company. I serve as the chairman of the office of the aging....or the federal programs which is the office of the aging and employment in training. And JPTA corne through that and I would be willing Harry, to work with you in trying to 9 garner more forces, so that we can do additional work here in this park. Any question? Simmonds next? Any questions? Thank you. Who would like to go Gosline Wally? Hirsh Aaaah, lots been said, but, I think the concept is aaaah, it really aaaah, really aaaah, the right time for the right concept, the aaaah, I look at ummmm, a traditional aaaaah community, such as the city of GF that has the center, the park and the center. It has the meeting spot in the bandstand for a....lectures or whatever and then I see Q that is now a....evolving, a...well, it's not a traditional city, a....as GF or some other city is. It is a community and it does need a centerpiece, a focus point. And, a....right now, for instance, when they have a parade and they want to speech they go towards a cemetery. Thé cemetery land is becoming more used up and a....and that's still not...still not the best place for a....these types of events. The park or the gazebo to serve as a bandstand would be a...excellent for that a....purpose. I see the a....the usage that the Crandall Park a...gets with the pond. Aaaah, over there, that a.....lot of people just looking for a passive park. Some place to go and have their lunch. And, even as you go through downtown, you got the library, the park there. It's a..... the trees and the flowers. .. . nice restful area. Ummmm, going a step further, looking at it as a businessman, a.....as Pete would tell you too, we're selling a product and the more people see our product used, they get ideas and they'll a....that's a.....in the long run that will benefit a.....the a.....I a....do own Bentley Florist, but I do have a camp in Q on Glen Lake and also I have a business, Quaker Farms out in Q. SO, I do feel that the.. .with that... .we are definitely a part of the community in the area and, I feel that anything that we can do to encourage and help bring the thing along would benefit us. I know as a kid, I remember going over and fishing at the pond and it's a good place to fish and, you know, for...it could be a....thing could be set up similar to as the rules at the a....city is develop or Crandall Pond. Limiting, the....you know, if you don't get anybody down there fishing, you limit the people by age or handicap or however they want to do it. So, that...make it easier access place for people.....younger kids that ride up on their bike, or whatever. I know back in the 50's, Crandall Park, downtown was just kind of a green grassy spot and a...there were several people, Frederick Baskum and the Kiwanis Club at that time in GF. They were looking to develop in....they worked with my father and we....he developed a very nice a....the basic flowerbed layouts that are . · .. 10 there and that's really made out....a big change in the way the park's look. And, I think by putting the flowerbeds in here and developing a passive....use place. Nothing more strenuous than a little frisbee or something or something. I think....we got an excellent opportunity here to a......really give the T a heart and a center. Simmonds That's a nice way to put it. Isn't it? South It has a definite urban flavor to it. Hansen Kid from the Bronx doesn't know what that mean. Simmonds Marylee. Gosline Ummmm Pete. You want to say anything? Watkins Well, when you go last, most everything has been covered. But, I'm a Hudson Falls boy, and in Hudson Falls, we were kind of frustrated. My dad ran River Park rink for 21 years and what happened is they got a Rec. Commission, 11 people and divided that money up 11 different ways, everything got tied out, so there was very little left. Now, I live in Q, and boy, what a feeling it is to see all these activities that you can do in Q. But, I'm a 100% for that. Whether, of course, as I get older, it was from a child's point of view all these activities like Derby Park and things like that. Summer playground. When you get older, it's hard to find different things that.... unless, you're a.... in a softball league or some other type of league to go to like Crandall Park or Hovey's Pond. This is great. So, this point of view, and, I agree with Wally. And, Bob, a....number of years ago, we were involved with Greg Greene and the Adirondack Horticultural Society and we were frustrated that we had all these plans for botanical gardens. Greg Greene is now working. . . . again, in the background at ACC. We've cut out some trails. We're going to have a botanical garden there. And, like Wally said before, the more (unknown) we can get out there, the more designs, the more it furthers the business. Horticulture is for art, in general, if I can say that landscape and horticulture is like an art form. It's a higher level in the community. At first, we get our factories. And, last thing we do are some of these horticulture type things. It's an art. And, I can see 'em. So, this is just another opportunity to enrich our community. So, I'm fully for 'em. My dad and my brother. We're ready. Where's the shovel. Everybody laughs. Simmonds Have to get it up. 11 Hansen Down the hall. Everybody laughs. Gosline I guess that's it, unless Chet. South A couple of things I meant to draw attention to and then completely forgot. We talk about a gazebo. We talk about docks. Aaaah, what was in the intention of the committee that the gazebo....once the material was donated, could be built in two sections by BOCES. . . . students. . . . and be transported to the site and set on some pre-existing foundations that we...would be put in to match the gazebo. That's all a possibility that the us Seabees division, down here on Parker Street, who at times throughout the course of their training and periods of activity turnaround and do community type project. It's a good possibility that some of the docks that we have talked about could be built as a project...a community project from the Seabees towards the T of Q. These are very, very distinct possibilities. There's been no definite contact made to see if it could be arranged in their schedules, but their....that is a definite possibility for those two items. You hear the word gazebo or you hear the word docks and you start thinking of a massive project. But, the gazebo that we have envisioned would be somewheres in 18-20 ft. Okay. And, there's a distinct way to build them in sections and bring them on and erect them there on the site or even be erected on a site by BOCES students. Now, the BOCES crew is already done a lot in the HP Halfway Brook area. They've just did a tremendous project for Trout Unlimited (TU) there, by the bank, out behind Dr. Wiswall's property there. And, they stabilized the shores and everything. So, they do, do good work for this type of a project. We just have to have the right connections. And, I personally think it can all be funnelled together in good shape providing the commission agrees, you know, looks at it...in a positive way. Simmonds Is there anyone else who'd like to. ...address this? Gosline (Clearing throat) One thing I'd like to say, is, this year, we'd like to see this flower garden go in. This is about 20 x 40. And, we've measured it. Ummmm.. .we'd/ like to see this flower garden over here going in to go with the bridge that....I guess was ordered by the T. That's here. Ummmm, we would like to try....we would like to try to....get our walkway into the woods. And, we also have money that has been pledged for a fountain. If it's possible in the future. Ummmm, not a fancy, store bought fountain you know, fountain, but something that's....get some aaaah welders just to build a....orifices and a pump and just make something attractive in the pond. Ummmm, maybe . ,. ... 12 in the future, the bike trail might be able to connected with the park. That was another....subject to be brought up. But I have my plans already for the fountain. I do have people that are willing to work. Different companies. I have people that are willing to give services and donate. I do have meetings to go to, so when is your next meeting? Simmonds Ha. It's within the next couple of weeks. Next couple of weeks? Gosline Simmonds Right. Gosline to hear involved. just start anything. Alright. from ( Simmonds Because then we going full bore, Because I do have people that are waiting Right.) me, if we are going to be are getting back to them and then we but until then we won't be able to do . South I think everybody that worked on the committee would be willing to set down individually or together with any of the commission and add to or delete from or schedule out, whatever the case might be to help get this project rolling and even, if we had to...to put it in a dramatic five year plan, phases, or four year plan and ummmmm, the big thing is, the taxpayer should know that, the majority of this work is being done w/o tax dollars. Or trying to....there's going to be some maintenance, possibly, later on that would corne through the normal activity, possibly in the RC. But, ummmmm, we have the possibility here to make this piece of land that was donated to the T a show place about the center of our business subject. I think it's terrific. Gosline The other flowerbed we'd like to see done also, I forgot, is the one out by the road. It should be there. Simmonds With the sign? Gosline Yeah. And, that would be this year. That's about all we can...... Eddy Will you have some money for the urnmm..... Gosline The fountain? Eddy No. The walkways. Gosline I have a....I have dust. ...donated for the walkways into the fire dept. walkways. You know, into their property. We thought we'd do just dust. Not stone and dust. Just the plain 13 dust. Because we found that stone and dust would pop wheelchairs. The wheels on the wheelchairs. Auer Will do what? Gosline They pop the wheelchair. . . . wheels. Stones. Ones...ones are very sharp. They're little, but they're sharp. And, sometimes they will cut.....pop a wheelchair....tire. Auer That's contrary to what I've uh.. ..ARC was quite happy with that sort of thing. Gosline Well, Carolyn..... Raymond Well, I think that....what you're going to find is, that, depending upon how the base is actually set down in...how it's actually set down in. (Auer - Right.) A person who is gonna have some super duper, aaaah, upper body strength in order to wheel through any type of stone and dust. - Auer Yeah. 1....1 know what you're saying. Okay. Gosline So, we're going towards more dust than stone? And it would pack down. Auer Okay. It's a matter of what you call it. Okay. Eddy Didn't you have some cement for this too? Gosline Well, you got the aaaah.... ummm you got those materials that were pledged. Yes. And, ummmm.....the list...that list was just the tip of the iceberg. We really haven't even gone out in the community yet. Hansen The cement that was pledged, we anticipated using as the piers for the bridge and the piers for the handicapped access fishing ummmmm structure. Gosline I spoke to my aaaah. . . . . I spoke with the people who donated the a....cement and he said, he's not allowed to donate to a municipality. He can only donate to groups or charities. So, that's why he can' t donate to you. He will donate to FHP and that's why I asked to hold it till we knew what we were going to use the cement for. Simmonds We need to look into that fact. Okay? Is there anything else that anyone would like to bring up to the Commission Yes. Doc Wiswall. Hi. . ;.;.o¡ 14 Wiswall I can sit still for just about so long and then I have to say something. Bob, did you ever consider moving that blind rock down there? Eddy No. Why would you want to move it? Wiswall Huh. Eddy Why would you want to move it? Well, it's a... .being buried and forgotten and a.... Wiswall Eddy No. I wouldn't do it's in the spot.!... .just cause you move....it's like a house. You move a historic house, you....it's lost it's value, historically. And, if you move the blind rock, it certainly would be..... . Wiswall Well, you know Polly started this fifty years, and a....it's gradually get'n buried, as I understand. Eddy And, that's on private property and a....., if we could find the fellah that would donate it to the T and, then that would be the proper thing to do. Wiswall It's apparently a very historic rock (Eddy - Oh, yeah.) a....rock. I wonder how many of you know about, you could go to it. Unknown Blind rock? Unknown Yeah. Wiswall Polly has been concerned about this, every time she and Bob gets together they talk about doing something bout it, but a...... Simmonds This rock is where? And, could you...... Eddy It's on the dogleg of Montray Road. If yOu....Montray Road starts opposite the Chinese Restaurant, corne down and then takes a dogleg, right there about 35' in. Perfectly, described by Holden in his history of Q, written in 1874. And, it's about 75' in from that dogleg. And, it should be....should be preserved as a ummmm historic spot. Put on the historic register, but of course, it's privately owned and the way to do it is to get him to turn it over to the T. I think that..... Simmonds I thought you wanted to move it to Hovey's Pond. 15 Eddy Oh, I didn't, I didn't..... Simmonds Is that what....? Wiswall I wondered if you ever discussed it....oh, at HP. That's a historic spot too. And, a.... rather than see that historic rock being covered and grassed and it's getting covered more and more. I mean, Polly remembers when it was quite a good size rock there and she really feels terrible that the T hasn't done something to preserve this historic spot and when you say it's in Holden's history ...(Eddy - Yes.) And, .a....it would be rather than see it lost entirely, it probably could be moved down to this park and a......this is a.....historic rock could be moved to a location 1000' north of here or something like that and a......depends. Once a.....you and Polly were interested and I think it would just be covered up and forgotten about. I'm not particularly interested in it. - Wiswall Sit around and talk. have to do something. You know, you are going to Eddy Finest thing about this is the pathways there that' s been described. I think that we ought to a....perhaps, to be a little more specific. In order to qualify, it has to be an inch to the foot grade. You can' t have it any bigger than that. And, that walkway is raised in such a way, in fact, we hope we can use BOCES Department where the youngsters learn how to operate backhoes and various things like that. That we can get them to corne down here and line that up an inch to the foot. All the way from the park.....car park there that you can see. That yellow part. All the way down, in and around the....round the pond a.....or least on the north side of the pond. Or a.....lets see, that would be the west side of this building. Urnmm...near the part there behind the fire house where we are planning nature trail. But ummmm.....that a.....the gazebo is a.....one a standard design, we hope to put in there and it a.....would be near the pond, but not actually over the pond. Whereas, the dock would be a.....cantilevered over the pond and, if you a.....look at that sheet there that tells you the description of the dock. Oh there she is. Oh, its on the back there. That's it. A.....that's a rather interesting design. Now a.... this is a...intended to be 18' so that you could have three persons, 6' each. Those ummm actually would be closer together than shown on this design here. It'll be a....., so the younger couldn't put his head between the "m." But they could put a net down there and a....fish they caught they could put it in the net and bring it back through the (place) there. I thought that was rather a interesting concept and something that only....I don't know, probably other people than Dr. Braico had access to it. .. - ~ 16 Simmonds Anyone else? Any questions, Sue? Betty? Monahan No. Well, I think it's an excellent plan. I think it shows the hardwork and it's my understanding these plantings, they can get donations for the plantings, so really, the T is not going to have to, you know, have very much of an expenditure and, I think it's a great opportunity for a community to work together to improve the looks of Q. Particularly, in that business section which really doesn' t look to good, right now. Think we need something down there to showcase what we are. Simmonds I loved your comment earlier about the heart. I think that was really wonderful and that's basically why we're all here today. I'd like to thank you all for corning. A...., we'll be back in touch. A... .we should contact ML or regarding what we corne up with as far as getting together with your plans and see what we need to do. (MLG - Okay.) Thank you very much.