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2004-06-28 SP MTG28 1 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 06-28-2004 MTG. #28 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. #28 JUNE 28, 2004 RES. 335-338 7:00 p.m. TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER TOWN OFFICIALS BUDGET OFFICER JENNIFER SWITZER MEMBERS OF THE RECREATION COMMISSION SCHOOL OFFICIALS GUESTS SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC – Opened the Meeting Noted that Councilman Brewer will be at the meeting shortly. RESOLUTION APPROVING AUDIT OF BILLS- ABSTRACT OF TH JUNE 28, 2004 RESOLUTION NO. 335.2004 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board wishes to approve the th audit of bills presented as the Abstract with a run day of June 28, 2004, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves the th Abstract with a run date of June 28, 2004 numbering 24278300 through 24290900 and totaling $375,677.93, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Budget Officer and/or Town Supervisor to take such other and further action as may be necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution. th Duly adopted this 28 day of June, 2004 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec NOES: None 2 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 06-28-2004 MTG. #28 ABSENT: Mr. Brewer Discussion held before vote: Councilman Strough-Page 5 Water for Fort Amhurst – is that because Glens Falls supplies Fort Amhurst with water? Supervisor Stec-Yes. Councilman Strough-Ambulance Service on page 27 and 28 for D. Harrington First Aid Jennifer Switzer-There are certain cases where if an EMS or Fireman is hurt they are covered under workers compensation, and there are certain cases where it is not prudent to be covered under workers comp. we paid first aid under a certain dollar amount. Councilman Strough-Bingo Fee on page 19 Jennifer Switzer- Bingo Fees that is money that is not the towns money it is in and out, we collect from local entities and we basically hold it in trust and then turn it over to the State of New York. ?? Queensbury School Tennis Court Informational Session Supervisor Stec-Introduced Dr. Howard the Supt. of School is here and Mr. Tim Place Director of Finance and Rob Chapman Director of Facilities, Dr. Howard- We have been authorized by the Board of Education to present the districts position. Introduced Mr. Tim Place Mr. Place-Gave handout to the Board Members relating associated costs related to the tennis courts. There are a total of ten tennis courts and a basketball court, including fencing and special drainage so four of the courts can be flooded for winter skating. There was a verbal commitment on both sides that we would enter into a joint venture to build tennis courts, some of which the Town would pay for and also those specific courts would be flooded to allow for ice skating. The project was bid in December of ’02 we set up the four tennis courts as an alternate that could be awarded separately. That would include all associated costs with the general construction of the courts including fencing and special drainage. Bid-$140,000. Alternate to relocate lights - Bid $47,500. Relocation of the Gas Line estimated cost $27,251. Adjacent Parking $18,000. following five items, pro-rated non direct construction costs; architect and engineer design the project, construction management fees, testing and inspection, insurance to the project, legal bonding fiscal advisory fees – Total costs for courts $265,131. of which we have requested through the recreation commission $176,250. the balance we are not requesting is $88,881. Councilman Turner-Questioned where the gas line goes? Rob Chapman-Reviewed the location of the lines on a map. Councilman Strough-I see the pro rated fees the 17,936, the architect and engineering fees and the $10,221 management fees, testing and inspection $1635. pro rated insurance $818. and legal bonding and fiscal advisory fees $1,770. the Town is not being charged any of that. Councilman Boor-Are the pro rated fees only for the four additional or they for the ten? 3 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 06-28-2004 MTG. #28 Mr. Place-Just the four. Chairman Irish-The reason that the Town Board is here is because the total fee is $265,131. had somebody from the School come to the Commission at an appropriate time you guys would not be sitting here today. The problem as I see it, we learned about the cost of these courts at the time the school was ready to start construction on the courts if not later. We had the assumption that the courts would be around $120,000. Unknown-Spoke on problems with construction noting they are now on track with time and quality…would like to have seen a written agreement, and we would like to have this resolved to both groups benefit Unknown- Issue of cost at 35,000 per court was not a surprise…One of Doug’s concern was did we agree or not to pay a portion of the relocation of the lighting Chairman Irish-We agreed to I did not feel obligated to, the Commission agreed to pay it. Councilman Turner-Questioned if the old gas line would be removed? Mr. Chapman-The line will be removed. Dr. Howard-We do not use the lights for our day program, it seems to me if you are talking about the true costs of just the four courts and the lights then the direct cost would be $187,500. The benefit or using the original lights if you will were really for town benefit rather than the school benefit. Chairman Irish-Does the school see any benefits to the Recreation Commission operating its program there? I certainly see a benefit to the school district for the town having their programs there even though we don’t pay for rent, lights, heat, O&M any of that, I certainly see a benefit to the school district. Dr. Howard-I think we can agree that we have a symbiotic relationship and we would like to continue to build on that. We calculated what we thought was fair, we went through the board they authorized us to come and explain our position and our costs and how we determined them. We are not trying to take the town we see you as partners, we would like a partnership and we have every plan of continuing it. Councilman Boor-The one seventy six figure was voted on by the commission and it was five to one that, that was an ok figure, is that correct? Commission Member Connie Goedert-That is correct. Councilman Boor-I think Dr. Howard has made some good points relative to mistakes in the past, not having things in writing, not a firm contract, obviously not a good understanding, but as a Town Board it is our responsibility to authorize the expenditures and I see this as recreation funds not general fund money. I see a commission whose sole purpose is to make 4 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 06-28-2004 MTG. #28 recommendations, develop programs and they voted that this was an ok figure. I am a little reluctant to micro manage and reverse their decision however I am also for being as fiscally prudent as we can from the towns point of view. I do not want to get into a heated thing, granted these are thousands of dollars but we are talking about a lot of benefit to the community. Myself I would not want to fore go or see these tennis courts not happen and the Town not have the ability to have ice skating in the winter and night time programs, but certainly in the future it would be my hope that we do not ever have to go through this kind of thing again. Member Recreation Commission-The relationship between the School and the Town particularly the Recreation Commission has been so good over the years, the last thing we want to do is jeopardize that relationship, but we do have to be fiscally sound and I think just having the discussion shows that there are a concerned people here that are concerned about the budget of the Town of Queensbury but also the services that are available through the school and through the commission. Councilman Brewer-The alternatives for moving the power and gas lines is that cost regardless of whether we participate or not? Unknown-The Board would have to decide if they want to go ahead and move the lights or not. It is my understanding with the pipe lines that they are pretty much they are going to have to be moved. Unknown-The west side courts the gas line has got to be moved because it would be at the level of the base. The other two courts to the north of that not necessarily. There is associated drainage with having two courts that want to be flooded because we have to get rid of the water. So, we probably wouldn’t have to, but should it be, yea, because of what you mentioned earlier as far as not good to have large pipes underneath something you really want level and flat. Dr. Howard-Going back to the agreement which at some point will have to be updated the ten year agreement that the Town and School entered into, if you read the agreement it says six because that is all that exists currently. Basically, it says that during the summer we turn over the courts all the courts to the town recreation for your full use, so it is not I would assume that we are still intending that the summer time we are basically now planning to open the ten courts for the town use. So, while we are proposing you pay a portion of the cost of the four, it has been of the agreement that we really are turning over the entire ten. I know we all want to be fiscally prudent but the cost of ten courts is really what you are getting the benefit of. Unknown-The courts are used heavily in the evenings, only when the lights are on. Councilman Brewer- I am in favor of paying the hundred forty, that is how I feel at this point, the Recreation Commission in my mind should have come to the Town Board and said what ever the number was and let us be aware of it. I think one hundred and forty thousand dollars out of our recreation fund is a substantial amount and I think it is a reasonable amount. 5 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 06-28-2004 MTG. #28 Chairman Irish-You got those figures the same time the recreation commission did, that is why this is an issue now. Supervisor Stec-My understanding was the number that I have had in my head until a couple months ago, the previous years before that, was that we were talking about four courts for a hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. I understand pro rating, I understand the math that went into these numbers but what we are talking about then is really, is instead of it being a hundred and twenty five, two sixty five is the true cost. That is more than twice of what we were thinking two years ago up until two months ago, I think that is where the Town got its hair raises, this is substantially different. I think we in our minds had budgeted from the Recreation Commission the rec. funds about a hundred and twenty five. I understand we have inflation to think about.. I think we are all on the same page that we want this project as planned now to go forward…I am sure the board will want to talk more about this…we have told other people that weren’t budgeted, no, for much less than thirty six thousand dollars recently. Councilman Strough-I think this is a unique situation so comparing it to others maybe not too fair, a genuine and unique relationship between the School and the Town over the tennis courts. The School is willing to pick up part of the cost of lighting which basically is a town benefit. The school is willing to pick up the fees pro rated fees associated with the engineering, the town is not going to be charged any of that but the Town will get the benefit of it. The School is not charging the Town for management fees, inspection, insurance, and other fees but the town is getting the benefit of it. When you balance this out and you look at the use of ten tennis courts that the Town will use in the summer I think it is actually it is a fairly good deal for the town. The Recreation Commission has put their stamp of approval on it I think that has to be taken into our consideration. Commission Member Connie Goedert-I just feel that it needs to be said that this has been going on for a few months now and I am sure everybody is sick and tired of hearing about tennis courts but I just think we need to bring to light the fact that one seventy six two fifty was voted on by the Recreation Commission mainly to bring this to an end. Tonight I have learned probably more than I learned other nights because if we don’t move the gas lines so therefore they can’t put in the wall so we then we will not be able to flood the courts for the ice skating. So, there is another rec. program that will be lost. If we don’t pay the share of the lights then the lights will not be moved because the School doesn’t need the lights moved. We can always go back as to what we were told and what was said by this one and what was said by that one but we have to get past that and look at what figure we are looking at today and what programs it brings and what programs it will take away. As far as working together for years I worked on campus, I plowed snow there in the winter time with a plow truck that the town gave us for a dollar, and there were a number of those. So, this inter municipality practice has been going on for a long time. It was done without written contracts and it was paid on both sides. So, I just think that if we can just put to bed the part of well we should have known this figure a long time ago, with everything in life we should have known it a long time ago but we just got to look at what programs we are going to have for the one seventy six two fifty and what 6 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 06-28-2004 MTG. #28 programs we will have if we don’t have the one seventy six two fifty and try to come to a conclusion with that. The Recreation Commission voted in favor of it five to one with it being taken from rec. funds to be given to the Board for approval. My understanding that resolution never got to the Town Board because it got pulled for more information. There were steps taken it wasn’t like the Recreation Commission just went and spent money that they can’t spend. It is more than just tennis programs that we are looking at here. Councilman Boor-The four courts that the Town is considering are the ones that are going to be flooded the other ones cannot be flooded the way they are being proposed. I look at it from a marginal utility point of view I hate to lose skating and lighted tennis courts because of twenty five or thirty thousand dollars that is in somebody else’s budget it is not coming out of general fund. If they want to spend it on this they are not going to be able to spend it somewhere else, it may be over their budget but it is not like they are borrowing it. I just cannot see throwing away all of that because of what is relatively small amount of money. Supervisor Stec-Anything else? Dr. Howard-I am going to recap for you, that we came tonight being authorized by the Board of Education, to present the cost associated with the tennis courts and how we calculate it, what we thought was reasonable. It would have been nice if we had a written agreement. All the cast characters have changed, you have a new Supervisor, there is a new Superintendent, and there are different recollections on both sides of the table. My guess is probably they are all accurate. Somewhere along the line people have different conversations and have different pieces. That is what we are here to do a list to go through and outline the cost associated with each of those pieces, present it and see how the Town and the School can continue to work together. Councilman Boor-I would like to caution my board, if we vote this thing down you can rest assured there is going to be a public out cry when there are not lit tennis courts guaranteed. Whether it is six or ten, if there aren’t any tennis courts that are lit up we are going to look bad, whether it is our fault or not is irrelevant. Chairman Irish-I do not know that is accurate because the bids have already been let. In our discussion a month ago I think Rob said whether we pay for this or not the school is committed to it because they are not going to get any money back from the contractor. Unknown-I am not sure that is true. Unknown-They might have bases and power to them but we might not move the lights. Chairman Irish-That might not be a bad thing because we might be able to move them for less than what they are quoting you. Unknown-I think it would make it ten times the work for me and muddy a lot of waters with contractors…. 7 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 06-28-2004 MTG. #28 Chairman Irish-Who put them up originally the school or the town? Director Hansen-The contractor….I think they worked for the town. Unknown-Noted this is no time to redesigning the project… Dr. Howard-This is something that has to be resolved to every bodies benefit… Supervisor Stec-I would only add that I think I for one and everyone from the towns perspective cherishes the relationship on the rec. front that we have had for several decades, it has been very in vogue in the last hand full of years for everyone to talk about how consolidation and cooperation…here is something that has been in place since practically since I have been walking the earth and so I think that it is a good example. It is amazing it has survived this long without a written form and hopefully we will have several more decades to come where we have collaborated. We appreciate your efforts in helping us try to get to some sort of closure on this issue. By the end of the week I think we will get back to you. RESOLUTION CALLING FOR AN EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 336. 2004 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer RESOLVED , that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into an Executive Session to discuss contracts and security plans and personnel. th Duly adopted this 28 day of June, 2004 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: None RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 337.2004 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough 8 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 06-28-2004 MTG. #28 RESOLVED , that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Executive Session. th Duly adopted this 28 day of June, 2004 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: None No action taken in Executive Session Discussion held and decision of board to go with $140K for Queensbury School Tennis Courts, Not $176,250. RESOLUTION ADJOURNING TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 338.2004 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner RESOLVED , that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Special Session. th Duly adopted this 28 day of June, 2004 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: None Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury