1977-05-26 SP 53
SPECIAL MEETING MAY 26, 1977
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Michel Brandt-Supervisor
Daniel Olson-Councilman
Robert Barber-Councilman
Frances Walter-Councilman
Hammond Robertson-Councilman
PRESS: Tri Co. News, WBZA, WWSC, Glens Falls Post Star
GUESTS: Mr. Turnbull, Mr. Stewart, Mr. Norton, Mr. Goetz, Mr. AmtoLd,
Mr. Hillman,
Ray Irish-Rist Frost Engineers
Informational Meeting-Queensbury Sewer System
8:04 P.M.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT- The purpose of this meeting is to bring forth
information on the local sewer district. Reviewed
the processes of gathering information on the local
system using old studies that the Town had done in
the past. Rist Frost has been ]hired to gather and
formulate data to present to the public tonight.
Reviewed the rules in obtaining 75% federal funding
and State aid for the project. Commented that as
the formulation of the district was planned, informa-
tion from outside such as from residents of a sec-
tion of W.G.F. was used in the drawing up of the
areas that should be served. Using the educated
cost figures together with the County Costs the
residents can now be given a bottom line cost figure
of the sewer system. Commented on the recent
work on the Broad Acres storm sewer system noting
the pollution in the system. We are going to have
to face the costs of taking care of our own pollution.
. . the pollution of Half-Way Brook is getting worse
as you go along its course. . . it is high time we face
up to our responsibilities as a society and we say
there are certain basic things we must provide, and
certainly for the good health and welfare of the cuM-
munity has to be the very first thing we have to
face. .
Turned the meeting over to Ray Irish o' Rist Frost
Associates .
MR. IRISH- Basically, we are not complete in our work. We have
had many meetings .with the Town Board, along with
this public information meeting to help develop the
areas to be served in terms of economics and the need
for a sewer system. Reviewed the history of the
county system, the steps to formulate a system and
funding changes that have recently been passed.
The town received approval of our plan of study in
December, 1976 for the local collection. Noting that
work is not yet completed, preparation of our
district will be completed sometime this summer so
that a feferendum could be held on the town local
f district in the fall. In regard to funding, the
plan has been submitlted to see what areas can and
can not be federally or state funded. Mr. Irish
used several maps reviewing the areas to be served.
Criteria for development is (a) , need, as a result
of local conditions , effect of local health and
water quality. (b) , sufficient development to
financially handle the burden of cost of construct-
ion so we are not putting in streets that are not
developed. (c) , aid eligibility.
Reviewed the West Glens Falls area and the Hudson
Falls area in regard to cost and implementation of
a sewer system. Costs figures based on recent bids
for"'similar work. On the bond issue he suggested we
sell bonds early to save interest
54
Inflation will be about 7% a year, also discussed
construction and operation maintenance. Projected
total assessed evaluation and total discharge units
based on recent history. There will be approximately*
90 miles of pnpeline and 15 pumping stations. We
have taken into consideration sewer department costs.
Spoke on assumed costs of land acquisition.
The foci&owing is the brochure passed out by Rist Frost Associates :
Warren County, New York
Table 14 (2)
User Rating Schedule
Type of User One Equivalent Discharge Unit (1)
Single Dwelling Family Standard Unit
Apartment Each apartment
Bar and Grill Every 300 sq. ft. of patron area
Beauty Shop Every 3 employees
Barber Shop Every 3 employees
Campsites Every 4 sites
Car. Wash Every 4 stalls
House of Worship Every 1,000 sq. ft.
Convalescent home Every 2 beds
Drive-In theatre Every 40 car spaces
Diner Every 200 sq. ft. of dining area
Hospital Every 2 beds
Housekeeping cottage Every 2 cottages
Industries (plus additional Every 5 employees
dharge based on process
waste quantities)
Launderette Every two washing machines
Mobile Home Each home
Motels (also hotels , lodges , Every 3 rentable rooms
rooming houses)
Professional Offide Every 300 sq. ft.
Restaurants Every 200 sq. ft. of dining area
Schools Every 20 pupils
Service stations Each
Theatres Every 300 sq. ft. seating area
Stores Every 2 ,500 sq. ft. sales area
(1) Single family dwelling used as standard unit.
(2) Rrproduced from "Report No. 1 on Wastewater Facilities
Planning for the Lake George-Upper Hudson Region, Warren
County, New York" Project No. C-36-970 March 1977 by
Hazen and Sawyer.
May 26 , 1977
Page 2.
ESTIMATED USER COSTS
LOCAL SEWAGE COLLECTION SYSTEM
TOWN OF QUEENSBURY
I
TOTAL CAPITAL PROJECT COST (1) _ $31,100, 000.
ESTIMATED STATE AND FEDERAL AID + 22,400,000.
NET CAPITAL LOCAL COST $ 8,700,000.
Formula for Assessing Users : (2)
(1) Capital Costs (Debt Service) 50% Ad Valorem = $2 .59/$1000 A.V.
5071 EDU' s (3) = 49. 31
(2) Operation and Maintenance - 100% Based on EDU's Connected
Typical User Costs : (2)
Type Assessed VAJue EDU' s Debt O&V .(4) Total (4)
55_
Type Assessed Value EDU' s Debt Service 4&M(4) Total(4)
Single $15 , 000 1 39+49=88 18 $106.
Family 20,000 1 52+49=101 18 119.
Homes 25 , 000 1 65+49=114 18 132.
30,000 1 78+49=127 18 145 .
Unit - _
Motel 375,000 16-2/3 971+8221793 300 2093.
450,000 16-2/3 1166+822-1988 300 2288.
Retail +
Store 120, 000 4 311+197=508 72 580.
10,000 SF 180,000 4 466+197=663 72 735 .
—Sales Area
i
(1) Based on ENRCCI=3150 - provides 25% for inflation above present
costs .
(2) Maximum cost year based on phasing of three bond issues and
construction. Bonds 30 year, 6-1/2% interest.
(3) EDU is abbreviation for Equivalent Discharge Unit - See over
for Schedule of EDU's.
(4) Basic costs for standard service connection maintained by
Owner. For users utilizing grinder pump units furnished,
installed and maintained by Town, increase annual cost by
$35. per EDU.
May 26 , 1977.
OPEN FORUM:
MR. MONTESI- What happens if the County system goes through
and the town system does not?
MR. BRANDT- If the county system is approved and the town
does not the Bost would rise for the other users.
I would guess Audit and Control would say it did
not meet their standards and therefore the
referendum would probably be null and void.
Certainly if enough towns did that within the
district it would nullify the county system.
MR. TURNBULL- Questioned that hhere is a large area in Oueensbury
that would not be serviced - noted Oneida Corners
east of McDermotts. .
MR. ..IRISH- Yes, It does not go all the way over to Oneida
Corners .
MR. TURNBULL- Questioned if this will service the Industrial Park?
MR. IRISH- No.
MR. TURNBULL- Noted that there are additional hook-up charges-
questioned the type of pipe that will be required?
14R. IRISH- There will have to be an ordinance stating the. tVpe
of pipe that can be used.
UNKNOWN- How many years will the phasing in take and what order
j will you be phasing in?
LnR. IRISH- We have- not looked at it to see which would come,
first, just as a whole district. The first bidding
will be in 1979, construction from 1970 to 1983.
MR. STEWART- What will be the effect to the costs of the schools?
MR. IRISH- I do not know their existing costs so I could not
tell how much they will go up. On the user rating
schedule, one equivalent discharge unit per 20
people.
MR. NORTON- Ouestioned the cost to vacant land?
56
MR. IRISH- It would just have an advalorem tax.
MR. NORTON- Would the first phase of @ onstruction be going on
at the same time as the county construction?
MR. IRISH- Basically, on the same time as the county. If it
was dumped on the market all at the same time, it
could have an effect on the cost.
UNKNOWN- Can this be limited to local contractors?
MR. IRISH- It can not be strictly bid out to local contract, ' '
it can be put out to bid on such projects of a
certain size and magnitude that local contractors
can be competitive.
MR. MORTON- Will grinders be used at residents where you have
to pump up?
MR. IRISH- Not every person that would have to pump into the
sewer system will have a grinder pump.
MR. MORTON- Will the grinder pumps be on the property of the
owner?
MR. IRISH- On the property of the owner.
MR. STEWART- Questioned if the water will now be diverted from
Lake George into Queenwbury?
MR. IRISH- Yes.
MR. BRANDT- Lake George would like to buy water from Queensburv.
MR. NORTON- Is it right, that you have to dump outside the
Lake George water shed?
MRS. WALTER- No.
UNKNOWN- What would be the cost if you were in the district
but did not hook up?
MR. IRISH- That is an administrative question to decide if you
did not have to hook up or if you will be mandated
to. If you did not you would pay the advalorem tax
and EDU for debt service and operation maintenance
costs .
MR. GOETZ- Commented on sewer conditions in tha pyramid mall-
would like to see the sewer system ego to Industrial
park to encourage industry.
MR. BRANDT- Since there is no industry there right now, it would
be foolish to provide sewage on the basis one might
arrive. If we see serious interdst we would look
toward extending the sewer district to accomodate
them.
PAIR. IRISH- Commented that the industrial park involves two �
counties . The Town of Queensbury can not form a
district going into the Town of Kingsbury.
MR. BRANDT- Wet industry we would encourage into the central
district to sewer easier.
MR. IRISH- Due to federal laws industry must pay industrial
cost recovery, part of the monies go back to the
town for future costs.
MR. GERO- questioned if there was a certain distance established
where you would have to hook up?
MR. IRISH- The line will go in front of your property.
57
MR. ARNOLD- Does the aosts include the paving of 90 miles of
road?
MR. IRISH- Basically it will be patching - some, more than that.
MR. ARNOLD- What happens when there are overruns?
MR. IRISH- If you have to expend more, you have to come back
to the voters .
--MR. O' CONNOR- How many users have been projected to be hooked up?
[R. IRISH- 7900 EDU' s in the year 1982 .
MR. BRANDT- The funding for local district primarily is coming
from the Federal government, an' average;.of 72°,.i, fund-
ing frpm -they Federal Government and State Agency for
the total distttct. Take the Capital Construction
Cost, if congress decides not to fund, as recommended
by agencies, at some point we may have to fund 100%
if we are mandated to clean up our act.
COUNCILMAN WALTER- Questioned Mr. Brandt' s figures , the fact of the
matter is the district would not be as large as it
is right now, if we do not have the 757 funding.
Parts of the Town are being severed, not for
environmental reasons but for economic reasons. The
figure you gave could not be right, because we
would be cutting down the size of the district.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT- We have to make decisions based on economics , anr_1
this was based on the best economics available to us.
COUNCILMAN WALTER- You know, we would not have the size district, if
we were not promised 757 aid. Questioned Mr. Irish,
If we do not get the 75% aid what will happen to
the plan?
MR. IRISH- That. .is not my decision. . .
COUNCILMAK WAFTER- Commented that the meeting was to be a public
information meeting not a merchandising job. We
came to present figures to the people and let them
decide if they can afford this . . .as to environmentally
and pocket book. . . .I claim the district is very large
and it is so because of funding. . .
What authority could mandate that the Town go on a
sewer system?
COUNCILMAN BARBER- The Federal EPA. . . Notdd the City has been mandated. .
MR. IRISH- I do not know the date of the City mandate. . .all
communities that have existing systems that discharge
surface waters into navigable waters , have discharge
permits issued by the Federal Government.
�JUNCILMAN BARBER- Commented that' .there are several areas in the Town
of Queensbury that are experiencing sewer sewage
problems. I think we have to address it presently.
. . . want to see sewers bt Glen Lake and Lake George
and the business district. . . I do not necessarily
think that areas of Westland need them but I have
had to compromise because there are areas of the
Town that need it and need it badly. If we do not
accept this plan now, any more delay will cost us
approximately 4 million dollars per year just in
escalated costs.
Questioned if the. s.ystem had to go in beaaaaaeof
drainage into navigable waters?
COUNCILMAN BARBER- Noted that many residents use the lake for drinking
water.
58
At what point can the Federal Government mandate
a sewer system?
COUNCILMAN ROBERTSON- Noted that no one can answer that question. . . spoke
on the publiei�s awareness of pollution problems .
in our society. . .noted that there is a growing
demand for everybody to clean up.
Question what areas right now, are having sewage
problems that would prompt a mandate?
COUNCILMAN BARBER- Noted areas such as Hovey Pond, behind the Pyramid
Mall and Queensbury Plaza and the Sunnyside area. .!
COUNCILMAN ROBERTSON- If yourare talking percentages of the 66 square
miles, 17,:
MR. IRISH- Stated the areas of Lake George, Noth4 Queensbury
and along Quaker Road have problems. . .
Questioned if the sewer system is really necessary?
COUNB UMM BARBER- Commented that the growth rate of our town has
increased substantially in the last 20 years but
the services have not accomodated the growth, until
the last 3 or 4 years and it is costing us a lot
of money in taxes , as a result , mofe people have
become concerned about the cost of government. Noted
we have to preserve what we have left. . .
Questioned if the problems could not be solved on
a localized basis?
MR. IRISH- Noted that it is not all problems, commented on
the rapid commercial growth WE the Town.
6UPERVIS0R BRANDT- . . . In my humble opinion, I think it is the right
time and the right thing to do and I think it is
cost effective and a far better deal than trying
to do it slip shod. . .
COUNCILMAN WALTER- Much of what Mr. Brandt has said is very true, but
he is not even in the district on the or*penal plans
the way it was worked out on the County level , it
went to West Mountain. . .
SUPERVISOR BRANDT- It would not have included my house where I presently
live so you are not correct.
COUNCILMAN WALTER- Much of that area which does not have public water
supply was taken out some of the area has excellent
soils for drainage, they have a public water supply,
there areas were left in. We are talking about a
political boundary, it does not have to do with
economics or environment, we are gettin4 down to the
politics of the thing. Noted that she was not
against sewer but felt that there are some inthe
district that shouldn' t be and some that are tag,
that should. Commented on the area that are ie
need, some of the boundaries are not inclusive,
they are a matter of economics , because , yes , we
are dealing with asses.sed evaluation and that
is the name of the game.
MR. GOETZ- Commented that he felt Lake George is Ing . . .
noted the economic loss that this coul cause. . .
Strongly in favor of having this passed.
COUNCILMAN OLSON- Commented on the problems of Glen .Lake, the
Association there is chemically treating the
lake. . .A sewer system will not only help Queensbury
but also Warren County.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT- This system is not designed primarily to bring in
industry, it is designed to take care of a problem
we have now—Commented that he argued hard to get
any area he knew that had good soil to et it
out, I did Aot get them all won but in the end
tt is a political decision, there are a lot of
people that have their input, they each have
their vote, they did their best and everyone of
them did it for the good of the people they
represented, they did not represent themselves, not
one soul, did I ever see that represented himself_
and his own personal interests. I think the
decision that came out of there are very solid
decisions . . .I personally think it is a good system
and I think it is time to go with it.
t PAUL HILLMAN- I think this is a grand system, I think they are
looking to the future. . .
MR. ARNOLD- I think it is a crime to put areas where there is no
water quality problee into this district just to
gain the tax assessment—noted that the project
should have encompassed the problem spots not the
whole area.
MR. IRISH- The size of the district is up th ,thh Town fathers
and the residents of the town. . .
SUPERVISOR BRANDT- Commented in setting up of the district we would
service as much of the area within good economics,
that can be predicted. . .if you want to shrink the
Town District, that can be looked at . . .
COUNCILMAN BARBED- Commented that the membersoof hhis Board did .go to
the County and try and have the County change
certain area such as areas of WJR.F. and Harrisena,
but this did not succeed. . .
SUPERVISOR BRAND.T- Reviewed the process of formulating the district. . .
areas to be serviced and not to be serviced, noted
that he worked hard to get Westland out of the
district because he felt they did not need it , but
the finding was that it be included.
On motion the meeting was adjourned.
Respectfully submitted,
Donald A. Chase
Town Clerk
Town of Queensbury
REGULAR P- EETING JUNE 14, 1977
MEMBERS PRESENT
Michel Brandt-Supervisor
Daniel Olson-Councilman
Frances Walter-Councilman
Hammond Robertson-Councilman
Joseph Brennan-Town Counsel
ABSENT Robert Barber-Councilman
PRESS [ ]SC
T014N OFFICIALS Carl Garb, Floyd Martindato, George Liapes , Harold Boynton
GUESTS Joseph Daire, Les Baird, Arthur Turnbull, Glenn Grenno, ?`fir. Fish,
Mr. Gealt
Meeting Opened 7: 30 P.M. Salute to the Flag.
BIG OPENING NOTICE, SHOt�M HIGHWAY OBSOLETE EnUIPMENT
T014N CLERK DONALD A. CHASE READ THE FOLLOWING BIDS THAT WERE RECEIVED.
Morgan K. Combs
VanDusen Road
W. Glens Falls, N.Y.