09-16-2014 (Queensbury Planning Board 09/16/2014)
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
SEPTEMBER 16,2014
INDEX
Site Plan No. 32-2014 Wayne Mattison 1.
Tax Map No. 303.19-1-40, 41
Site Plan No. 53-2014 Thomas Kubricky 2.
ZBA RECOMMENDATION Tax Map No. 227.13-2-24
Site Plan No. 62-2012 Kirk Roberts 3.
Tax Map No. 295.6-1-8
Site Plan No. 54-2014 David&Susan Benton 5.
Tax Map No. 289.17-1-1.5
Site Plan No. 55-2014 George Sicard 10.
Tax Map No. 297.20-1-2
Site Plan No. 56-2014 Lake George RV Park, Inc. 13.
Tax Map No. 288.12-1-9.1
DISCUSSION ITEM The Fort Miller Co. Dream Lake Road 17.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF
REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND
WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
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QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
SEPTEMBER 16,2014
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
CHRIS HUNSINGER, CHAIRMAN
DONALD KREBS, SECRETARY
STEPHEN TRAVER
PAUL SCHONEWOLF
DAVID DEEB
GEORGE FERONE,ALTERNATE
MEMBERS ABSENT
BRAD MAGOWAN
LAND USE PLANNER-LAURA MOORE
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
MR. HUNSINGER-I'll call to order the meeting of the Town of Queensbury Planning Board on
Tuesday, September 16th. The first order of business is approval of minutes.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
July 15, 2014
July 22, 2014
MOTION TO APPROVE THE QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING MINUTES OF JULY
15TH AND JULY 22ND, 2014, Introduced by Donald Krebs who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Stephen Traver:
Duly adopted this 16th day of September, 2014,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr.Traver, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Ferone, Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Deeb, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Magowan
MR. HUNSINGER-For members of the audience, welcome. There are copies of the agenda on the
back table. There's also handouts for public hearing procedures. We do have several public
hearings scheduled later in the agenda. Next on the agenda is an Administrative Item.
ADMINISTRATIVE ITEMS:
SP 32-2014 WAYNE MATTISON: TABLED TO 9-16-14 FOR FURTHER TABLING
CONSIDERATION
MRS. MOORE-I can provide you additional information. They did submit information for Site Plan
Review for our October meeting. So you can table them to an October meeting, and you can be
specific or you can make it general. That's up to the Board.
MR. KREBS-My draft says October 21St.
MRS.MOORE-Okay. Let's take October 21St.
MR. KREBS-Is that all right with everybody?
MR. HUNSINGER-It works for me, I won't be here.
MR. KREBS-Okay.
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RESOLUTION TABLING SP# 32-2014 WAYNE MATTISON
A site plan application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the following:
Applicant proposes construction of a one story Auto Use facility for repair and sales of automobiles.
Automobile Services is an allowable use in the CLI zone; Automobile Sales is not. Pursuant to
Chapter 179-3-040 of the Zoning Ordinance Automobile Service in a CLI zone shall be subject to
Planning Board review and approval.
SEQR Type II -no further review required;
PB made a recommendation to the ZBA on 6-17-2014; the ZBA approved the variance request on 6-
18-2014;
A public hearing was advertised and held on 6-26-2014,tabled to 7-22-2014; Staff has met with the
applicant's agent and is anticipating a submittal for the October meeting;
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 32-2014 WAYNE MATTISON, Introduced by Donald Krebs
who moved for its adoption,seconded by Stephen Traver:
Tabled until the October 21, 2014 meeting.
Duly adopted this 16th day of September, 2014,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr.Traver, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Ferone, Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Deeb, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Magowan
MR. HUNSINGER-Next on the agenda is a Planning Board recommendation to the Zoning Board of
Appeals.
PLANNING BOARD RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
SITE PLAN NO. 53-2014 SEQR TYPE II THOMAS KUBRICKY THOMAS KUBRICKY AGENT(S)
ERNEST STANLEY OWNER(S) SAME AS APPLICANT, T. HORRIGAN, JOAN CAMP, KELLY
HORRIGAN ZONING WR LOCATION 53 ROCKHURST ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES
CONSTRUCTION OF A 15 X 30 (450) SQ. FT. DECK TO AN EXISTING 360 SQ. FT. CAMP. SITE
PLAN: PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 179-6-050 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE HARD-SURFACING
WITHIN 50 FEET OF THE SHORELINE SHALL BE SUBJECT TO PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND
APPROVAL. VARIANCE: RELIEF REQUESTED FROM SHORELINE & NORTH SIDE SETBACK
REQUIREMENTS OF THE WR ZONE. CROSS REFERENCE AV 67-14, BP 14-342, BP 12-035, BP
10-220 WARREN CO. REFERRAL SEPTEMBER 2014 APA, CEA, OTHER L G PARK CEA, APA
WETLANDS, NWI WETLANDS LOT SIZE 0.14 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 227.13-2-24 SECTION
179-6-050
TOM KUBRICKY, PRESENT
MR. HUNSINGER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-Okay. The Project Description: The applicant proposes construction of a 450 sq. ft.
deck onto an existing 360 sq. ft. camp, and Site Plan Review is required for the hard surfacing and
the variance is requested from the shoreline and north side setback requirements of the WR zone,
and the Planning Board is to provide a recommendation to the Zoning Board in regard to the
applicant's request for shoreline setback relief for construction of the deck off of the existing home,
and I think there's someone in the audience if you have any questions. There is someone in the
audience that is representing the applicant.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. If you want to come to the front table, sir. Good evening. Could you
identify yourself for the record?
MR. KUBRICKY-Tom Kubricky.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Did you have anything that you wanted to add about your project?
MR. KUBRICKY-Not really.
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MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Questions,comments from the Board?
MR. SCHONEWOLF-It's pretty straightforward.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. KREBS-It's not untypical of the area,either.
MR. KUBRICKY-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. If there's no questions or comments, I'll entertain a motion for a
recommendation.
MOTION RE: ZBA RECOMMENDATION FOR AV# 67-14 THOMAS KUBRICKY
The applicant has submitted an application for the following: Applicant proposes construction of a
15 x 30 (450) sq. ft. deck to an existing 360 sq. ft. camp. Site Plan: Pursuant to Chapter 179-6-050
of the Zoning Ordinance hard-surfacing within 50 feet of the shoreline shall be subject to Planning
Board review and approval. Variances: Relief requested from shoreline & north side setback
requirements of the WR zone.
The Town of Queensbury Zoning Ordinance, per Section 179-9-070 J 2 b. requires the Planning
Board to provide a written recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals for projects that
require both Zoning Board of Appeals &Planning Board approval;
The Planning Board has briefly reviewed and discussed this application, the relief request in the
variance application as well as the potential impacts of this project on the neighborhood and
surrounding community,and found that:
MOTION TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON BEHALF OF THE PLANNING BOARD TO THE
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FOR AREA VARIANCE NO. 67-2014 THOMAS KUBRICKY,
Introduced by Donald Krebs who moved for its adoption,seconded by Stephen Traver:
The Planning Board,based on limited review,has not identified any significant adverse impacts that
cannot be mitigated by the current project proposal.
Duly adopted this 16th day of September, 2014,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Deeb, Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Ferone, Mr. Krebs, Mr.Traver, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Magowan
MR. HUNSINGER-You're all set. Good luck.
MR. KUBRICKY-Thank you,gentlemen.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Next item is a Tabled Item.
TABLED ITEM
SITE PLAN NO. 62-2012 SEQR TYPE II KIRK ROBERTS AGENT(S) JARRETT ENGINEERS
OWNER(S) SAME AS APPLICANT ZONING RR-5A LOCATION 11 OLD WEST MOUNTAIN
ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES CONSTRUCTION OF A 1,500 SQ. FT. SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE
WITH DISTURBANCE FOR SEPTIC, DRIVEWAY, AND STORMWATER MANAGEMENT.
PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 179-6-060 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE ANY CONSTRUCTION
WITHIN 50 FEET OF SLOPES GREATER THAN 15% SHALL BE SUBJECT TO PLANNING BOARD
REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE AV 57-14 (APPROVED 8-20-14) WARREN CO.
REFERRAL SEPTEMBER 2012-NCI LOT SIZE 6.14 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 295.6-1-8 SECTION
179-9, 179-6-060
TOM JARRETT, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MRS. MOORE-All right. The applicant proposes construction of a 1,500 sq. ft. single family dwelling
with disturbance for septic, driveway and stormwater management. This Site Plan Review is
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required for the construction within 50 feet of 15% slopes, and the applicant has received final
engineering signoff,and there's no additional information beyond that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Good evening.
MR.JARRETT-Good evening. Tom Jarrett of Jarrett Engineers, representing Kirk Roberts. You saw
this project last month when you made a recommendation to the ZBA. I don't think there were any
concerns at that time. The ZBA granted the variances necessary and we've resolved the extensive
list of engineering comments we received.
MR. HUNSINGER-Questions,comments from the Board?
MR. KREBS-This is too simple.
MR.JARRETT-Are you looking for something,sir?
MR. D E E B-Straightforward.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, if there's no questions or comments from the Board, we do have a public
hearing scheduled this evening. Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to address the Board
on this project?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. HUNSINGER-Any written comments, Laura?
MRS.MOORE-There's no written comments.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. I'll open the public hearing and close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. HUNSINGER-This is a Type II SEQR so no SEQR review is necessary. I guess we're ready for a
motion.
RESOLUTION APPROVING SP# 62-2012 KIRK ROBERTS
A site plan application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the following:
Applicant proposes construction of a 1,500 sq. ft. single family dwelling with disturbance for septic,
driveway, and stormwater management. Pursuant to Chapter 179-6-060 of the Zoning Ordinance
any construction within 50 feet of slopes greater than 15% shall be subject to Planning Board
review and approval.
SEQR Type II;
PB made a recommendation to the ZBA on 8-19-14; the ZBA approved the variance requests on 8-
20-14;
A public hearing was advertised and held on 7-15-14, 8-19-14&tabled to 9-16-14;
This application is supported with all documentation, public comment, and application material in
the file of record;
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 62-2012 KIRK ROBERTS, Introduced by Donald Krebs
who moved for its adoption,seconded by David Deeb:
This is per the resolution prepared by Staff.
1) Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code-Chapter 179-9-080, the
Planning Board has determined that this proposal satisfies the requirements as stated in the
Zoning Code;
2) Waiver requests granted: landscaping&lighting plans.
3) The limits of clearing will constitute a no-cut buffer zone, orange construction fencing shall be
installed around these areas and field verified by Community Development staff,
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4) If required,the applicant must submit a copy of the following to the Town:
a) The project NOI (Notice of Intent) for coverage under the current "NYSDEC SPDES General
Permit from Construction Activity"prior to the start of aU site work.
b) The project NOT (Notice of Termination) upon completion of the project;
5) The applicant must maintain on their project site,for review by staff:
a) The approved final plans that have been stamped by the Town Zoning Administrator. These
plans must include the project SWPPP (Storm Water Pollution Prevention Plan) when such
a plan was prepared and approved;
b) The project NOI and proof of coverage under the current NYSDEC SPDES General Permit, or
an individual SPDES permit issued for the project.
6) Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the Community
Development Department before any further review by the Zoning Administrator or Building
and Codes personnel.
7) The applicant must meet with Staff after approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit
and/or the beginning of any site work.
8) Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building permits is dependent on compliance
with this and all other conditions of this resolution
9) As-built plans to certify that the site plan is developed according to the approved plans to be
provided prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy.
Duly adopted this 16th day of September, 2014,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Deeb, Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Ferone, Mr. Krebs, Mr.Traver, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Magowan
MR. HUNSINGER-You're all set.
MR.JARRETT-Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-We have three items under New Business tonight.
NEW BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 54-2014 SEQR TYPE PREVIOUS - TYPE II DAVID & SUSAN BENTON
AGENT(S) ETHAN HALL OWNER(S) SAME AS APPLICANT ZONING WR LOCATION 77
BIRDSALL ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES TO MODIFY EXISTING APPROVED SITE PLAN
W/CURRENT AS-BUILT CONDITIONS THAT WERE NOT PART OF THE APPROVED PLAN.
MODIFICATIONS RELATE TO RAIN GARDEN/VEGETATED SWALE, PAVED DRIVEWAY VS.
CRUSHED STONE AND STRAIGHT VS CIRCULAR; PATIO LAYOUT, PLANTED BERM, WALKWAY
TO LAKE, PATIO AREA AT DOCK ELIMINATED; SOD INSTALLATION. PURSUANT TO CHAPTER
179-9-120 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE ALTERATION TO SITE WITH APPROVED SITE PLAN
IS SUBJECT TO PB REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE BP 14-074, SP 19-13, BP 13-
98, SB 3-06 APA, CEA, OTHER GLEN LAKE CEA,NWI WETLANDS LOT SIZE 2.33 ACRES TAX
MAP NO. 289.17-1-1.5 SECTION 179-9-120
ETHAN HALL, REPRESENTING APPLICANTS, PRESENT
MR. HUNSINGER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-Okay. This application is for modification of an existing approved Site Plan with
current as built conditions. I've noted the site items that have changed include using gutters
instead of eaves trenches, paved driveway to Birdsall Road versus a gravel, different layout of patio
with the same square footage, planted berm at the top of the slope at the property line is
landscaped and mulched now, lake access walkway now a serpentine path versus a straight path,
and the hard surfacing was to be 7,517 square feet, as built is now a 7,726. This is a 200 sq. ft.
change. The Board may request a clarification of certain site conditions. This may include
information on the gravel path from Canterbury's to the Benton's. There is a shed detail that does
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not appear on the drawings but is seen in the photos, and the location and size of portion of the
property that may be transferred to the Canterbury's in reference to a project that's associated with
that one at the lake.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MR. HALL-Good evening. For the record Ethan Hall with Rucinski Hall Architecture and Susan
Benton is with me here and her attorney is Mike Borgos. We're here tonight to go over the as built
site plan. There were some modifications made during construction, most of the stuff Laura went
over. We had originally called out for eaves trenches around the building and when the contractor
got there they wound up putting gutters around it, using downspouts that all come down into the
eaves trench, and there's a drainage line which runs around the building and winds up going to the
vegetated area for disposal. The site is very,very well drained. It's all gravel and it's all very well
drained. The path that we had going down to the lake that we had depicted originally was a
straight down path, was kind of a straight shot of stairs going down. When the landscaper got
there and looked at it, it was a better path to follow the grade and kind of wander its way down.
About mid-way down is where the old rail bed used to be, so they wound up putting a flat patio in
that area, rather than putting it all the way down by the lake where they would have had to
excavate out a fair amount of material. So they wound up making that switch there, and then just
continuing the path winding down to the dock down at the lake. They put in a fair amount of
landscaping along that bank, along the top of the bank, and also in the area where the berm is at the
very top of the bank. The other things that were changed, the original subdivision plan called for
the driveway from Birdsall to where it splits,to where, this is a two lot subdivision or it was a four
lot subdivision but these two lots are adjacent and they share a common driveway. The Bentons
decided to pave all the way out. There's no real difference in your Code between the blacktop
paving and the gravel,but they've paved the driveway all the way out to Birdsall. So that when the
next lot comes in it's already paved. So that's already been taken care of. The area that they're
discussing,or that Staff talked about going down to Canterbury Lane,that's actually part of the right
of way. It follows the Niagara Mohawk/National Grid right of way, and it actually goes down and
connects down onto Canterbury Lane. It's just been cleaned up. The area where the grading was
done around the Benton's top portion of the driveway,just to kind of control erosion, they brought
some crushed stone and worked down into the cinders that were part of the old right of way, it's
the travel path for National Grid. The only other thing I think that's not really clear is the shed that
does appear in the pictures. The shed is actually on the adjoining property. It butts right up
against where the Bentons' property is, and the electric pedestal that's there and the pump that's
there are the pump for the irrigation system that's drawing water up out of the lake, but the shed
itself is actually on the neighboring property. I think that pretty much covers all the items that
were.
MR. HUNSINGER-But it is on the Benton's,it is the Benton's shed?
MR. HALL-No. It's the neighbor's shed.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. HALL-It butts right up against where their property is.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. DEEB-The pump is where?
MR. HALL-There's one of the pictures that shows it.
MR. KREBS-Right next to the shed.
MR. HALL-Yes. It's an open, it's just like a, it looks like a steel canister, and that's just sitting right
there. There's an electric pedestal next to it that runs the, that's got the name on it, enclosure
around it so that the electricity can run the pump to pump it from there up to the top, so they use
that for irrigation.
MR. DEEB-On the Benton's property?
MR. HALL-Yes. The pump and the pedestal are on the Benton's property, and the shed's right next
to it, and the shed is actually on the neighbor's property. It's Doc Sabia's. That's Dr. Sabia's shed.
It butts right up against their.
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MR. HUNSINGER-Anything else you wanted to add? I'll open it up for questions and comments
from the Board.
MR. KREBS-Well, I haven't visited the site, but just looking at the landscaping in the pictures, when
this grows in a little bit it's really going to be very nice.
MR. TRAVER-Can you talk about the decision process in terms of how so many changes were made
to modify the site plan?
MR. HALL-The change really happened in the area from the top of the bank down to the dock area
itself.
MR.TRAVER-Right.
MR. HALL-And the original survey that we had really showed a really steep continuous bank going
all the way down. The contour intervals didn't really indicate that there was a nice flat area where
that train siding runs through. So when we looked at it strictly in the winter,looking at just strictly
at the survey,we felt it was better to just leave it as a straight shot to go down to the lake, and when
we actually got out there this Spring and they started looking at how everything laid out and the
landscaper came up and said, look, I think you'd be better off to make this, if we just follow the
bank, follow the contour of the bank down to this flat area, then put the patio in, and then we'll
continue the walkway down with some steps and flat stone and it just worked out a little easier for
them to get equipment in and out to do things that way. So that was the major change there, and
once we saw the flat area about mid-way, it became easier for them to put the patio there than it
would to try and get equipment all the way down to the water's edge,create a flat patio by the dock.
So they decided that that would be a simpler change there. Again, there's about a 200 sq. ft., in
total, change in hard surface from what was proposed to what we've got now. It's a 7500 to 7700
square foot on the two acre, 2.3 acre lot in total. So it was a very, in the grand scheme of things it
wasn't a huge change. One other thing that was mentioned in Staff was the piece of property that
the Bentons are currently looking at to transfer as part of another project for part of another
proposal to the Canterburys. It's just a very small portion of it and it's all the way down at the end
of this right of way easement, and the only thing that's going to wind up on that lot would be the
Canterbury's septic system. Their lot is only 80 feet deep in total. So in order for us to get their
septic system more than 100 feet from the lake, they needed to purchase some property from the
Bentons. So in total it's really not a, off the top of my head I think it was like 1800 square feet or
something of a change, and I took that into account when I re-did the numbers, the total coverage
numbers, that piece actually comes out. So they're still well in excess of what they would need for
their lot coverage numbers.
MR. HUNSINGER-So just a follow up question on the original question. So is the increase in the
hard surfacing,is it mostly because the change is in the walkway?
MR. HALL-The way the walkway winds its way around.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. HALL-The patio itself really stays about the same size, whether it was going to be down at the
lake or up on the train rail side. That really stayed about the same.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. HALL-And then we re-configured things at the top. It was originally just going to come straight
out of the house and be a nice rectangular piece, and they got, when they got to looking at how
everything laid out up at the very top, they decided that a nice radiused walkway and then they
took part of that and they made the fire pit that's off on the side, and by the time all was said and
done,we wound up with a net increase of about a 200 sq.ft.increase.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Any other questions or comments from the Board?
MR. KREBS-Just that I think moving the patio back from the water edge is better than having it right
at the water edge.
MR. HALL-It made for less disturbance right at the edge of the water,and I think that that was really
the driving force in that.
MR. KREBS-It looks beautiful.
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MR. HUNSINGER-If there's no other questions or comments from the Board, we do have a public
hearing scheduled this evening. Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to address the Board?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. HUNSINGER-Are there any written comments?
MRS. MOORE-I do have a public comment. This is dated as received September 16, 2014. It's
addressed to the Planning Board members. "I think the Planning Board, with the help of the
Planning Department staff, does an excellent job of implementing the Town's Zoning Law and
Subdivision Regulations. But the public needs to be able to rely on the approvals granted by the
Planning Board. I look at the Highpoint Subdivision in our neighborhood and see that it is quite
different from the plat approved by the Planning Board. Unfortunately, the major differences are
the elimination of undisturbed buffers that were intended to screen the development and preserve
the very special character of our neighborhood. The current application seeks after-the-fact
approval of a paved driveway that was constructed instead of the approved crushed stone
driveway. In this context, the long, straight driveway looks more like a road than the road itself
which winds and curves through the wooded area. I don't realistically expect that the Planning
Board will require the applicant to remove the paved driveway. And that seems to be what
builders depend on. I'm seeing a pattern of builders ignoring the approvals granted, constructing a
project however they please and expecting either after-the-fact approvals or for everyone to just
look the other way. There are three more approved lots in this subdivision and more wooded
parcels in the neighborhood that will be developed in the future. I urge the Planning Board to find
a meaningful way to ensure that projects are built and maintained according to the approved plans.
I've been told that the fines sometimes imposed are simply considered a cost of doing business and
do not act as a deterrent. Are neighbors supposed to monitor construction and later maintenance
to ensure compliance? If so, perhaps some specific indication and authorization of this
responsibility should be included in the Town's Zoning Law and Subdivision Regulations. Thank
you for your consideration of my concerns. Very truly yours,Ann Russell"
MR. SCHONEWOLF-What was her address?
MRS.MOORE-I have 26 Marley Way.
MR. HALL-And what was the subdivision that she was referring to?
MRS.MOORE-She's referencing Highpoint subdivision.
MR. HALL-Which that's not this one.
MRS.MOORE-It's not this one,but maybe it's near.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-It sounds like she lives on Assembly Point.
MRS.MOORE-I don't know.
MR. HALL-As far as the roadway, we didn't actually change the layout of the road. The road was
always shown coming straight because it only accesses the two lots, and what it does is it follows
the Niagara Mohawk right of way, and it actually, it's right next to where the right of way is, so that
they can access the line, the power line that runs through there. So that was done specifically by,
when they did the original subdivision so that they didn't have to do any additional clearing. It
follows right through. So there was no real change there, other than the fact that,yes, it was shown
as a hard surface that got changed to pavement,but again,that's in your Code.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. HALL-There's no differentiation between gravel and crushed stone pavement.
MR. HUNSINGER-Were there any other comments, Laura?
MRS.MOORE-No,there were not.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. DEEB-Well, I'm okay, but I don't condone after the fact site plan changes, and it's, you know,
something the Board has to consider, but, I mean,this one, these changes, do seem positive in most
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ways, but again, I want to make sure I go on record as I don't condone after the fact, site plan
changes after the fact.
MR. HALL-Sure.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. If there's no other comments,we will close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. HUNSINGER-And I would echo the comments there,but.
MR. KREBS-But sometimes you just can't perceive those things. There are some times, that, you
know,until you actually get the process started,you don't.
MR. HALL-And to the Benton's credit, the house itself stayed right on the footprint of the original
subdivision, right where it was shown. It wound up that, you know, the clearing limits that are
shown on the subdivision plan are really an arbitrary line that's drawn by the, whoever's doing the
initial subdivision, and when you start looking at where the actual physical trees lay out, you cut a
couple of trees and all of a sudden that canopy that was there, that,you know,you've got a 36 inch
oak tree that sits right in the middle of where the house plot is,well when you cut that down,all of a
sudden that clearing limit got really big, and it's just, you know, there wasn't actually another tree
that was taken down. It's just there wasn't anything around it once that tree was taken out.
MR. KREBS-Yes, well, and in fact, and sometimes, and as far as I'm concerned, this was an
improvement.
MR. HALL-In the long run.
MR. KREBS-In the long run.
MR. HALL-We spent a fair amount re-landscaping the area that they did have to take out.
MR. KREBS-I wish every lake front property was as nicely landscaped as this one is.
MR. HUNSINGER-And it also appears from the submission that we have anyway that you were a
little more proactive. I mean,you aren't here because of an enforcement action by the Town. This
was something that you brought to the Town's attention and said.
MR. HALL-Yes,we actually met with Bruce and with Craig out on the site.
MR. HUNSINGER-Back in June.
MR. HALL-And they just felt that there was enough modifications that had been made based on that
that,you know,we should come back and speak to you folks. We brought them to the site to show
them what was going on there. Here's where we're at with it.
MR. HUNSINGER-So that's a different story than what we're usually faced with. Usually the
applicant is there because.
MR. HALL-Usually we're brought here kicking and screaming.
MR. HUNSINGER-Exactly. So I appreciate that,too.
MRS. MOORE-I can say that it was a discussion with Bruce. Bruce did do a site visit as part of this
project. So, I mean, it was a mutual review of the project that it came back to the Board,but it was
a site visit through Bruce.
MR. HUNSINGER-Any other questions or comments from Board members? This is a Type II SEQR,
as was the previous project. So, unless there's some other issue we haven't addressed, a motion
would be in order.
RESOLUTION APPROVING SP# 54-2014 DAVID&SUSAN BENTON
A site plan application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the following:
Application proposes to modify existing approved site plan w/current as-built conditions that were
not part of the approved plan. Modifications relate to rain garden/vegetated swale, paved
9
(Queensbury Planning Board 09/16/2014)
driveway vs. crushed stone and straight vs. circular; patio layout, planted berm, walkway to lake,
patio area at dock eliminated; sod installation. Pursuant to Chapter 179-9-120 of the Zoning
Ordinance alteration to site with approved site plan is subject to PB review and approval.
A public hearing was advertised and held on 9-16-2014;
This application is supported with all documentation, public comment, and application material in
the file of record;
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 54-2014 DAVID&SUSAN BENTON, Introduced by Donald
Krebs who moved for its adoption,seconded by Paul Schonewolf:
Modification to Site Plan No. 19-2013. This is per the resolution prepared by Staff.
1) Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code-Chapter 179-9-080,
the Planning Board has determined that this proposal satisfies the requirements as stated in
the Zoning Code;
2) The requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been considered, and
the proposed modification[s] do not result in any new or significantly different
environmental impacts,and,therefore,no further SEQRA review is necessary;
3) Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building and Codes personnel.
4) The applicant must meet with Staff after approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit
and/or the beginning of any site work.
5) Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building permits is dependent on
compliance with this and all other conditions of this resolution
6) As-built plans to certify that the site plan is developed according to the approved plans to be
provided prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy.
Duly adopted this 16th day of September, 2014,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Deeb, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Ferone, Mr.Traver, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Magowan
MR. HUNSINGER-Good luck. You've got a beautiful project there. It's really nice.
MR. HALL-Thank you very much.
SITE PLAN NO. 55-2014 SEQR TYPE II GEORGE SICARD OWNER(S) SAME AS APPLICANT
ZONING CLI LOCATION 340 QUEENSBURY AVENUE APPLICANT HAS BEGUN
CLEARING/LANDSCAPING OF APPROXIMATELY 41,850 SQ. FT. AREA AND TO LEVEL IT WITH
CLEAN FILL SO AREA CAN BE MARKETED FOR SALE. PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 179-3-040 &
179-9-020 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE LAND CLEARING/SITE PREPARATION IN THE CLI
ZONE SHALL BE SUBJECT TO PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS
REFERENCE SP 2-10, SP 50-02, UV 7-90, SP 56-90, UV 1336 WARREN CO. REFERRAL
SEPTEMBER 2014 LOT SIZE 10.98 +/- ACRES TAX MAP NO. 297.20-1-2 SECTION 179-3-
040, 179-9-020
GEORGE SICARD, PRESENT
MRS. MOORE-Okay. The applicant has begun clearing and landscaping of an approximately 41,850
sq. ft. area, and proposes to level it with clean fill so the area can be marketed for sale. The
applicant proposes to complete the project with grubbing, grading and remaining vegetation/tree
removal. The Board may consider the request for waivers. In the Staff comments I've noted that
there's, it's location of the property is near the County airport, therefore some of the clearing and
things like that that happened are through temporary easements, and so the County has been to the
site, NiMo's been to the site clearing some of the property. In addition to that, Mr. Sicard has
10
(Queensbury Planning Board 09/16/2014)
cleared additional, attempted to clean up some of the stuff that has been left behind as well. So
there's multiple things going on on the site,but the applicant is ultimately responsible for coming to
the Board to explain the tree removal on the site as of today.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MR. SICARD-Good evening.
MR. HUNSINGER-If you could identify yourself for the record.
MR. SICARD-George Sicard,and I own the property at 340 Queensbury Avenue.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Do you want to just tell us why you're here?
MR. SICARD-I wrote a little thing.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes,we all read it.
MR. SICARD-Okay. Well, that pretty much covers it. Do you want me to read it back for the
record?
MR. HUNSINGER-No. I was just looking for a summary of what has happened.
MR. SICARD-Before I bought the property, early in the 2000's, the previous owner pretty much
clear cut any timber that was on it that was worth anything, and I had an opportunity to put a new
storage building up several years ago, and I applied for all the stuff and got everything approved
and at that time I didn't have the money to really clear up the whole rest of the lot that was there,
which apparently I was able to do without any problem. The owner of the property before me
pretty much clear cut the whole thing, and what was left was pretty much scrub pine and poplar
and some brush, debris left over. Niagara Mohawk or National Grid asked me for an easement to
come through and take some trees down and replace a power line that goes to the airport, and the
industrial park, I gave it to them. The County's come to me several times to take some brush down
and trees down, and it was kind of a cooperative effort. I had an opportunity to sell a portion of my
surplus property to the Hacker Boat Company and because it wasn't really shovel ready they moved
on down the street. So I made an effort to, I've got some clean fill from the Hicks Road project, and
I was pretty much cleaning up the mess and figuring,also as just a point of reference,it's in my little
thing there, that I'm part of this airport thing, whether I like it or not. I was told that I'm going to
have to grant easements on all of my property, even though I can't use much, a portion of it because
I'm under this fly way thing. So I have part of my property there that's pretty much useless even
though I'm paying full taxes on it. So I've granted every,the County,the Town, CNS Engineers from
Syracuse, anybody that's wanted an easement, National Grid, whatever you want, I try to be a good
citizen, and I really believe that cleaning up the mess, you know, didn't really require site plan
review, otherwise I would have come. Not a big deal. So I couldn't afford to do it at the time, and I
got some free dirt and I just wanted to make it look better. As you guys have been by there. I've
planted grass,kept it mowed. Gradually, as I can afford it,improving the property. I want to make
it look good. So that's kind of, I don't know if you have any questions other than that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Questions,comments from members of the Board?
MR. DEEB-It sounds like you got caught in the middle.
MR. SICARD-Pretty much. Yes.
MR. KREBS-Well, the whole area has basically been kind of defined as an industrial park anyway,
and we do want site ready opportunities for new companies coming into the area. So I think it
makes a lot of sense.
MR. HUNSINGER-Any other comments? We do have a public hearing scheduled. Is there anyone
in the audience that wants to talk to the Board about this project?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. HUNSINGER-Any written comments, Laura?
MRS.MOORE-There were no written comments.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 09/16/2014)
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. All right. We will open and close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. HUNSINGER-Let the record show no comments were received. Kind of an unusual project.
MR. KREBS-But, I mean, 20 years ago you wouldn't have had to come before the Board for any of
this.
MR. HUNSINGER-That's true.
MR. SICARD-When I bought the property,the guy that did it before me was 12 years ago.
MR. KREBS-Absolutely.
MR. SICARD-Fifty inches from where I was cleaning up is Washington County that my property line
is Warren/Washington County, and that's been recently clear cut as well, is what the County did
across the street. So it's got to do, I'm sure, with the easements and the pilots and I'm really not
involved in any of that. That's none of my business. I don't fly planes.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Good move.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, unless there's anything else, I'll entertain a motion.
RESOLUTION APPROVING SP# 55-2014 GEORGE SICARD
A site plan application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the following:
Applicant has begun clearing/landscaping of an approximately 41,850 sq. ft. area and to level it
with clean fill so area can be marketed for sale. Pursuant to Chapter 179-3-040 & 179-9-020 of the
Zoning Ordinance land clearing/site preparation in the CLI zone shall be subject to Planning Board
review and approval.
SEQR Type II;
A public hearing was advertised and held on 9-16-2014;
This application is supported with all documentation, public comment, and application material in
the file of record;
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 55-2014 GEORGE SICARD, Introduced by Donald Krebs
who moved for its adoption,seconded by David Deeb:
As per the resolution prepared by Staff:
1) Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code-Chapter 179-9-080,
the Planning Board has determined that this proposal satisfies the requirements as stated in
the Zoning Code;
2) Waiver requests granted: g-lighting,h-signage, I -utilities,k-topography,l-landscaping, m
-land use districts, n -traffic, o -new and alteration details, q -soil logs, r -disposal, s -snow
removal.
3) Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building and Codes personnel.
4) The applicant must meet with Staff after approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit
and/or the beginning of any site work.
5) Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building permits is dependent on
compliance with this and all other conditions of this resolution
Duly adopted this 16th day of September, 2014,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Deeb, Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Ferone, Mr. Krebs, Mr.Traver, Mr. Hunsinger
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(Queensbury Planning Board 09/16/2014)
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Magowan
MR. HUNSINGER-You're all set. Good luck.
MR. SICARD-Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you.
SITE PLAN NO. 56-2014 SEQR TYPE II LAKE GEORGE RV PARK, INC. AGENT(S) CLA SITE
LANDSCAPING OWNER(S) SAME AS APPLICANT ZONING RC LOCATION 74 STATE ROUTE
149 APPLICANT PROPOSES CONSTRUCTION OF A 3,600 SQ. FT. MAINTENANCE BUILDING
CONTAINING AN OFFICE, 4 GARAGE BAYS, LAUNDRY & DISH WASHING FACILITIES BREAK
ROOM, BATHROOM &STORAGE SPACE. A 1,800 SQ. FT.ADDITION (1,898 ROOF AREA) WILL
ALSO BE ADDED TO AN EXISTING MAINTENANCE BUILDING. THE ADDITION WILL CONTAIN
2 GARAGE BAYS AND STORAGE SPACE. PROJECT INCLUDES ASSOCIATED SITE
IMPROVEMENTS SPECIFIC TO THE MAINTENANCE BUILDING AREA INCLUDING
STORMWATER MANAGEMENT AND NEW HARD SURFACING, ETC. PURSUANT TO CHAPTER
179-3-040, 179-5-020 & 179-9-020 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE CONSTRUCTION OF
ACCESSORY STRUCTURES NOT PREVIOUSLY APPROVED SHALL BE SUBJECT TO PLANNING
BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE SP 26-13, BP 13-114 WARREN CO.
REFERRAL SEPTEMBER 2014 APA, CEA, OTHER NWI WETLANDS, STREAM OVERLAY LOT
SIZE 123.78 +/- ACRES (PORTION OF) TAX MAP NO. 288.12-1-9.1 SECTION 179-3-040,
179-5-020, 179-9-020
PETER LOYOLA, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. HUNSINGER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-The applicant proposes construction of a 3,600 sq. ft. maintenance building
containing office, 4 garage bays, laundry, dish washing facilities, break room, bathroom, storage
space. In addition, an 1,800 sq. ft. addition will also be added to the existing maintenance building.
The addition will contain garage bays and storage spaces. Additional access drives will be
constructed and project includes site improvements specific to the maintenance buildings includes
stormwater management and new hard surfacing, and the only other item I have is the Board may
consider the waivers requested for the project.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. The floor is yours. Good evening.
MR. LOYOLA-Good evening. Peter Loyola, CLA Site. I'm here representing Dave King, Lake George
RV Park. He apologizes he couldn't be here. He's away for a couple of days celebrating his 25th
anniversary.
MR. HUNSINGER-Wow,good for him. Congratulations.
MR. LOYOLA-So I'm here tonight for this maintenance building. We're proposing actually, well, let
me start out by showing you the addition for the storage unit. There's actually, on the site plan we
have two structures that we're proposing as part of the site plan. This is the existing maintenance
area. There's an existing building here and an existing storage building here, and these two
buildings are used for just general maintenance and also for storage of all the seasonal equipment
that comes and goes at the Park. What Dave is proposing to do and trying to do is consolidate what
are kind of two operations that are going on. He has an RV rental piece of his operation where he
rents the RV's weekly and he has four service vehicles that are scattered throughout the Park that
service these rental vehicles, and he's looking, right now they're parked in various locations in the
Park and he's looking to consolidate that into this maintenance building. There's four bays here for
the service vehicles. In addition, there's a little small office that he wanted to build as part of this,
and there's also a need for some internal washing of rags and linens and things as part of that that
he's proposing, so there'd be a little bit of a laundry facility that's in the building as well as dish
washing. No food prep or anything like that,but they rent dishes as part of the RV rental,and when
those folks are done and their dirty dishes, they need to wash them and then get them back into
service. So that's primarily what this building is used for. There's a septic area. Obviously we
needed to design for that. We have a grease trap for any of the dishwashing that might happen to
occur, so completely designed system to handle the bathroom and the laundry facilities. Second
structure is really an add-on to this existing structure. It is just a storage unit, 1,800, approximately
1,800 square feet, for just miscellaneous electrical equipment, plumbing equipment, lumber. He's
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(Queensbury Planning Board 09/16/2014)
got pieces of equipment kind of scattered throughout the Park as well, and this is an effort to get
everything under cover and consolidated. So it's pretty simple. We're asking for some waivers,
landscaping,just because we're so internal to the site. 149 is here. There's very limited views into
the facility as it is now. There's pines that are all along 149. There's barely any visibility into this
site at all now. There's a small access way that comes this way,it's a little off the map, and then the,
one of the service entrances is off, that butts onto 149. So there's quite a bit of distance here
internal to the Park. So we're asking for a landscaping waiver. With regard to traffic, there's not
going to be any increase in the vehicles, employees. This is all just to consolidate internal use on
the Park. No traffic impacts whatsoever. So we're asking for a waiver on the traffic study there,
and then also parking. No additional employees as part of this. All the service vehicles are all right
now internal to the Park and this is just an effort to consolidate that. With regard to stormwater,
we received the letter from Sean Doty regarding stormwater. Two items that were on that, as part
of his comments, One, that we didn't have a construction entrance built into this project, and we
just feel that it's very unnecessary because the site is so internal to the site. There's a huge distance
from here. This is all paved. There's at least 600 or so feet before you get out to the entranceway
to the Park. So we just didn't feel that that was necessary. It's very sandy soil, and most of the
trucks that actually come in, that are going to work on the building off season are going to be
coming in from the other entrance, actually and working their way around, so,just because they're
coming in from the main, so no need for a construction entrance, and then the last item was that
Sean recommended that we do some mottling downstream, because we do have a little bit of
increase in runoff because of the impervious, but I brought a map here, and this is really a little bit
of a result of what happened at the dog park, and I just want to back everybody up. Dave wanted
me to mention this. This whole entire site, when his dad built the RV Park way back when, is all
draining to two huge ponds, everything drains. First of all the soils are just fantastic. It's all sandy,
cobbly soil. I've never seen anything like it. We get one minute, two minute peres throughout the
whole entire site. So the digging is cobbly, but the drainage is phenomenal, and he used this for
sand and gravel pits way back when and they hold a lot of water, a lot of storage. I mean,we could,
I haven't done the calculation on it, but we could easily store probably a parking lot for, I don't
know, 4,000 parking spaces of impervious and not have one little bit of impact to the whole
surrounding area. There is a controlled outlet that leaves this pond,but everything that we do here
is all self-contained, and we just do not have any discharge offsite. It's 123 acre parcel. When we
built the dog park, and the dog park was over here, and this is the only reason that I bring this up,
we were, let's see, the dog park is located right here, and we went through a pretty extensive
stormwater management plan and spent a lot of money. When we got to building it, and we'd
invite anybody to come out and see it, it's just, it's spectacular. It's the nicest dog park I've ever
seen, we've ever designed, built. The building is beautiful, fantastic. There's artificial, you know,
dog turf that infiltrates. Anyway, stormwater, there's just no discharge offsite. We did have
impervious. We did go through the steps of putting a stormwater management plan. We talked
with DEC, and we really could have avoided that whole process. I know that you folks are bogged
down at the Town with a lot of unfunded mandates to go out and inspect these sites on a yearly
basis and I met with Bruce Frank, and he saw what we were doing and really there was really no
need to actually go through a stormwater management plan in this particular case, just because
there was a lot of paperwork and there's just, all the storms that we've had, there's not one bit of
runoff leaving the site. So this is kind of the same situation. We're a little bit more on the fringe of
our site. There's so many low areas and pockets and wooded areas. All of the runoff from this
whole entire site is really going to the pond here on this side, and anything in here drains down to
the ponds over here. On the perimeter areas there's an old railroad bed that cuts along this portion
of the property, and any runoff that comes in and may come down in this area hits that railroad bed
and the swale that's down here and just goes into the pond. I mean, thousands and thousands of
feet. So, long story short, we don't really feel it's necessary to mottle every single little drainage
way downstream here because it's just never going to make it. So I know that in the future there
are going to be several projects that he's looking at and trying to re-develop and improve. So I'm
hoping that, you know, this Board is going to take kind of a logical approach with this, and even if
we are, in this particular case we're not over an acre, but even if there are some projects that come
up that are over an acre, we're hoping that we can work with DEC and get some kind of a waiver
just to say there's really not going to be a, you know, I understand stormwater very well, and if
thought for a minute we would be impacting anything offsite, I'd be the first one to put together a
plan,but we're really in pretty good shape with this one. So that's about it. I think those were the
questions that Sean had, and with regard to the parking waiver, well, I think I went over all that.
So,that's all. I'll be quiet.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Questions, comments from the Board? I was glad to see the color
renderings,because that was one of the questions I had was the color schemes.
MR. LOYOLA-Yes, Mike Phinney from Phinney Design Group, they're doing all the new branding for
all the buildings, anything that might come up, so architecture very similar to the dog park, where
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(Queensbury Planning Board 09/16/2014)
we're just doing, you know, wood and a little bit of Adirondack style, more kind of industrial type
buildings.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Because I can't see it, I'll have to ask you. When you stand in front of the
maintenance building,right there,which direction are you looking?
MR. LOYOLA-This is the north elevation. Sothis is what you would see,you know, coming in off the
road.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-You're looking south?
MR. LOYOLA-This is looking south,correct.
MR. HUNSINGER-Any other questions,comments?
MR. KREBS-Well, I remember when we did the dog park, though, we did go over the drainage
significantly at that time.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. Okay. Well,if there's no questions or comments from the Board,we do have
a public hearing this evening. Anyone in the audience that wants to address the Board?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. HUNSINGER-Written comments?
MRS.MOORE-I have no written comments.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Let the record show no comments were received. We'll close the public
hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. HUNSINGER-It's a Type II SEQR as well. Quiet Board tonight. Must be good projects. Well, if
there's nothing else from the Board, I guess we're ready for a motion.
MR. DEEB-I'm just wondering about stormwater management. It's not our purview, is it, to? We
have to go by what Chazen says.
MRS. MOORE-But it's also, the applicant has provided backup information about the stormwater as
well. So you can, that conversation does occur between the applicant, Staff, and the Town
Engineer, but you, as the Board, can also provide that background guidance that says the applicant
has explained the reasoning behind the comment, their responses to Chazen's comments. So
you're,you know what those responses are going to be. If you're supportive of those,you can add
that as part of your discussion with the Board, whether you add that into your conditions of your
resolution. Currently the condition says that it needs an engineering signoff, which they would do
anyway, but as part of your discussion I can share that information with the Town Engineer and
Staff and work with the applicant to resolve some of this issue about a construction entrance and an
intensive stormwater mottling where it's just these two outbuildings and everything's contained on
site.
MR. HUNSINGER-I was going to say, I think we would need to address the engineering comments
because they say, although we don't take exception to their approach, it sounds like the engineer is
looking for some, maybe some clarification from us to say we're okay with it.
MRS.MOORE-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Is how I would read that.
MR. KREBS-But,you know, Chazen was not here when we reviewed the dog park.
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. KREBS-They were not our engineer, and we did do a pretty extensive review of the drainage at
that time.
MRS.MOORE-Actually the dog park was reviewed by Chazen.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 09/16/2014)
MR. LOYOLA-Yes, it was, Sean did review it, and unfortunately I don't think he ever went to the site.
I don't believe he was there. So I think that is going to be kind of, especially related to this project
and any future projects, I think we're going to have to get Chazen out just so that he see the extent
of stormwater,the minimal amount of drainage,none leaving the site.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. DEEB-Do we need to have Sean go out?
MR. KREBS-Yes, and if Sean goes out now, particularly if you're going to have projects in the future,
it's good that he understands it at this point.
MR. LOYOLA-Right.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MRS. MOORE-Does that answer the question for the entire Board about, that the conversation that
you have just had that I will share with the Town Engineer?
MR. DEEB-Yes.
MR. KREBS-Yes.
MRS.MOORE-Okay.
MR. KREBS-And the draft still says that engineering signoff required prior to Zoning Administrator,
you know,approval of plans.
MRS.MOORE-Yes.
MR. KREBS-So we're going to do this per the draft provided by Staff.
RESOLUTION APPROVING SP# 56-2014 LAKE GEORGE RV PARK, INC.
A site plan application has been made to the Town of Queensbury Planning Board for the following:
Applicant proposes construction of a 3,600 sq. ft. maintenance building containing an office, 4
garage bays, laundry & dishwashing facilities, break room, bathroom & storage space. A 1,800 sq.
ft. addition (1,898 roof area) will also be added to an existing maintenance building. The addition
will contain 2 garage bays and storage space. Additional access drives will be constructed. Project
includes associated site improvements specific to the maintenance building including stormwater
management and new hard surfacing, etc. Pursuant to Chapter 179-3-040, 179-5-020 & 179-9-020
of the Zoning Ordinance construction of accessory structures not previously approved shall be
subject to Planning Board review and approval.
SEQR Type II
A public hearing was advertised and held on 9-16-2014;
This application is supported with all documentation, public comment, and application material in
the file of record;
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 56-2014 LAKE GEORGE RV PARK, Introduced by Donald
Krebs who moved for its adoption,seconded by Stephen Traver:
As per the resolution prepared by Staff:
1) Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code Chapter179-9-080,
the Planning Board has determined that this proposal satisfies the requirements as stated in
the Zoning Code;
2) Waiver requests granted: L Landscaping, N traffic,and 0 details for parking only.
3) Engineering sign-off required prior to signature of Zoning Administrator of the approved
plans;
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(Queensbury Planning Board 09/16/2014)
4) Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building and Codes personnel.
5) The applicant must meet with Staff after approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit
and/or the beginning of any site work.
6) Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building permits is dependent on
compliance with this and all other conditions of this resolution.
7) As-built plans to certify that the site plan is developed according to the approved plans to be
provided prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy.
Duly adopted this 16th day of September, 2014, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr.Traver, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Ferone, Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Deeb, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Magowan
MR. HUNSINGER-You're all set. Good luck.
MR. LOYOLA-Thank you all.
MR. HUNSINGER-Initially we had on our agenda the Tribals, LLC brewery.
MRS.MOORE-They've withdrawn their application for the client's request.
MR. HUNSINGER-So should we toss these?
MRS. MOORE-You do not need it anymore. Correct, or you can give it back to me and I'll return all
the applications to them.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. I didn't know if they were just postponing it or if they were asking to table?
MRS.MOORE-They withdrew the whole application.
MR. HUNSINGER-They withdrew. Okay. All right. Next on our agenda is a discussion item with
the Fort Miller Company, Dream Lake Road.
DISCUSSION ITEM: The Fort Miller Co. Dream Lake Road
JOHN MARCELLE&ROSARIO GALLO, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. HUNSINGER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-Okay. The applicant proposes discussion item only. They're asking for
consideration to allow the continuation of the Dream Lake operation,and they have representatives
to provide that information. You all received a packet of information and it was a very detailed
description of what they're proposing. Eventually the applicant proposes to submit a site plan
application to the Board,but they wanted to get your thoughts in reference to actually they're going
to put a new entrance onto 149 and remove operation, like some of the traffic from Dream Lake
Road. So they wanted your input on the information.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening. My name is John Marcelle and I'm the
President of the Fort Miller Company, and Rosario Gallo is with me who's our project manager and
one of our engineers on staff. So we would like an opportunity to just talk with you a little bit about
what we're trying to accomplish up at Dream Lake. I think we gave you a booklet so I don't
probably need to go through all of that I'm sure, but maybe I could just get up and show you a little
bit about what our plan is.
MR. HUNSINGER-Sure,yes,and you can take the microphone,yes,please.
MR. MARCELLE-We, we're in the pre-cast concrete business, as you know, and when the dredging
started on the Hudson River we got very concerned because many of our suppliers came to us and
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said because of the dredging and the materials that will be needed, we may not be able to supply
you sand and stone, which kind of scared us because we've been in business since 1948 and we
make concrete and we need sand and stone and we didn't have our own. So that kind of peaked
our interest a little bit and we got involved and started talking to some folks and asked if some of
the people that we knew, Don Fane being one of them, if you know of anybody that's got a gravel pit
that has sand and stone, we'd be interested to try to protect ourselves and be able to vertically
integrate our company, and in June of 2010,the Fane family decided that they were going to sell the
parcel on Dream Lake Road, we purchased that. At the same time we purchased this parcel to the
north of it, and this parcel. We bought that in June of 2010, and we didn't do anything up there
until last year when we started to, we brought in a contract crusher to come in and to process the
material for us. We have a DEC permit, obviously, and we started to process material last year and
started incorporating that material into our products. We're proud to say that our materials from
Queensbury will be in the new Tapanazee Bridge. We're going to be building the main span of the
Tapanzee Bridge. We did the twin bridges on the Northway with the product. We're currently
building the Patroon Island Bridge going over I-90 with the aggregates from Dream Lake. So our
stuff's going all around the northeast. We have a job in Washington D.C. we just got that we'll be
using some of those aggregates and shipping it down to Washington D.C. on 16th Avenue. So what
we,the situation here, if you've been down Dream Lake Road,we came to the Town Board. We met
with Craig actually, Craig Brown initially, and talked to him about the access here and the problem
getting in and out. We sent some pictures of our ingress and egress, and our plan was when we
bought the property, that's why we bought these parcels here. It would make a lot of sense if we
can just get off Dream Lake Road, for everybody's, for the Town, for us, for the residents, and we
thought about putting a road out here, and apparently that's been talked about before with the
previous owners of the pit, and we're very interested in that. We talked to the Town. The Town
listened. This property was recently zoned RR-5, and it was re-zoned to allow the extraction of
sand and gravel with a Special Use Permit, which is why we're here at the Planning Board and
trying to just give you an overview of the project before we put an application in to answer any
questions. We're going to try to do this ourselves. We're not, we don't hire consultants and
lawyers and all that kind of stuff. We feel it's,the principals of the company, me being one of them,
we can come and talk to you and we have Duke Concrete which has been a good neighbor, I hope, in
Queensbury for a number of years, and so we're here to kind of just tell you a little bit about what
we're planning on. This morning we met with the APA, by the way, and talked with them and they
were interested. We have a crossing here in the existing road. One of the previous owners had
apparently gone in and built a road pretty much out to 149 through a wetland, and was cited, and
there was an action, an enforcement action and stuff that we inherited, but there is a road that was
built here. So our plan is to kind of stay right within that, and we talked to APA. They want to
come out and take a look at it. We want to invite the Planning Board and anybody from the Town
who wants to come. We've spoken to DEC, Jeremy Bane and his staff, about the proposed
continuation of the operation. They will treat it as a modification of our existing permit, okay, and
APA,because of the wetland involvement,will be the lead. They wanted to talk about that with the
DEC but they were fairly amenable to what we were talking about. We subsequently got to DOT.
We did a study, I think we included that in our packet with you, Creighton Manning traffic study,
before we even got too far. We wanted to make sure we'd be able to get out on 149 with DOT, and
the sentiment we got back from DOT and Creighton Manning study said,yes,we can make this work
to get out here and access the State highway. So with that information we went to the Town. The
Town changed the zoning in your recent zoning in June, and allowed the use of sand and gravel. If
you look at the map there, there's like seven or eight other gravel pits over here, and that's kind of
where the material is, if you will. So that's obviously why we're here and why we want to continue.
There were some concerns by the neighbors of, well, we don't want to expand this thing if they
don't, these guys don't get off Dream Lake Road, and that's a legitimate request, and the Town had
talked to us about that. We sent a letter, made a commitment that once we start here we will
definitely build a road, and I know people have been talking about that before, but we've been in
business since 1948 and if we say we're going to do something, we're going to do it and we'll
guarantee you that. So that's kind of the way we operate. We think it makes a lot of sense to get
out here and make it happen. It's been a, DEC has been very supportive, APA today I said is there
anything that you see here that scares you or makes you nervous. They want to look at this
wetland. Obviously that was damaged before. Our plan is to go in there, put some pre-cast
concrete culverts in. There's a crossing here and there's a crossing here, and we think that by
putting the culverts in will actually mitigate what's going on there now,because when they built the
road out there, they impounded water on either side of it. So I think we can actually enhance it by
putting the culverts. So that's, in essence, what we're talking about. Our timeframe is,you know,
we don't need to get it done this afternoon. Obviously we have an existing pit here, but we're
looking for a long term operation. Fort Miller will be continuing and we're going to continue to
need it. Duke will continue to need it, and that's kind of our plan and story. We tried to put it
together for you in the book and here to answer any questions that you might have, any concerns
you might have,any issues you want to talk about before we start to get the Special Use Permit.
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MR. FERONE-I've got a question.
MR.MARCELLE-Yes,sir.
MR. FERONE-So I was reading in your books. I can understand you have sand there and you're just
taking the sand out. You talked about something about crushing. What has to be crushed?
MR. MARCELLE-Well,there are two things that we need out of the pit. We need stone and we need
sand, and the stone that we have, unfortunately, isn't in nice neat little pieces like New York State
DOT requires. They're big, some very, very big stones. So what we're doing is anything that's 20
inches or smaller was going through the primary crusher. We're crushing that down. We have to
crush it down to a size of about a quarter of an inch to a half an inch to use it in our mixes. New
York State DOT is, very tightly regulates the gradation. So we want stone out of the pit. There's
plenty of sand. The problem with the stone is it's here. We're digging a while then we see sand,
then we've got to dig over here a little bit. So you kind of have to chase the stone in a gravel
situation. It's kind of inherent in the material that we have. So there's a crushing operation that's
involved and a screening operation, a washing and screening of the material, and our plan, as we
said, was to always keep that down at the lowest point, so that there's no dust, there's no noise.
We're not blasting in our process. It's excavation with either a backhoe or a loader. So it's a fairly
clean operation in that respect. Everything is contained in our property. There's no runoff. This
is very low. Everything is high around it. We've kept the vegetation there to try to keep it as
private as we can and as obscure as we can for the folks, but it's not an easy chore when there's a
truck,if you saw the pictures there,coming around the corner,and a car is trying to get through and
we have two trucks coming in and out. It gets a little bit crazy. Right on the corner here, we
actually got permission from Andy, the gentleman here, to cut some of his trees back because our
trucks were trying to get out and the plows were having the same problem when they're trying to
see pulling out to take a left or a right. The plow was actually in the highway because of the
conditions here. So if we can eliminate the traffic there it's safer for everybody coming on to 149.
It's a State highway and we just think it's a better deal for everybody.
MR. FERONE-How close is your closest residential neighbor on that road?
MR. MARCELLE-On what road,on Dream Lake?
MR. FERONE-Yes.
MR. MARC ELLE-Gentleman right here is right about at the entrance.
MR. FERONE-Okay.
MR. MARCELLE-By the way, we plow this road ourselves every year for the residents, there are
three residents that live here. So we bought a plow, we put it on a loader. We sand it and plow it
to be good neighbors. We have to get access in also, and so this is our closest neighbor here, I think
it's right here.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, I saw that in your book. Where does the Town stop plowing?
MR. MARCELLE-I think the Town stops right here, but there's some neighbors here, they could
probably help you with that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
AUDIENCE MEMBER-It stops plowing in front of my house.
MR. MARCELLE-Right in front of your house, Sandy, right? Yes. So we do it the rest of the way up
the hill and there are three residents there that benefit from us plowing the road and we do that
voluntarily, obviously, and we need access in there, too. It gets a little hairy when the snowbanks
get big so we actually take the loader and kind of scoop the stuff up and get it out of the way so we
can get the trucks through.
MR. HUNSINGER-Like last year.
MR. MARCELLE-Like last year, yes, it was kind of an interesting year. So that's, in essence, what
we're talking about. We'd be happy to entertain any questions you might have, any concerns that
you might have,or, before we submit our Special Use Permit which is the next step.
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MR. HUNSINGER-How long would you anticipate that you'd be using that site?
MR. MARCELLE-That's a great question. I really haven't, we haven't spent a whole lot of time
pondering that,but I would guess we would probably do that within three to five years I'm guessing
right now, as a number. It kind of all depends on how the material runs here. This has been
worked quite a bit, the material. We can go down another 20 feet with our DEC permit the floor.
We're currently at elevation about 325. We can go down to 320 with a modification that we have
of our DEC permit. So we haven't explored that yet, but I'm guessing it would be in the order of
three to five years, maybe sooner, and that's something that we can talk about. Obviously we
wouldn't be too anxious to put the road in until we know that we had access to this material
because it's going to be an expense, and if we know we can continue the operation and be able to
get the material,it's kind of win/win for us,too as well. So that's kind of where we are.
MR. HUNSINGER-You had made the comment before about how many sand and gravel pits there
are in the region,and it really is pretty amazing how many there are.
MR. MARCELLE-It is.
MR. HUNSINGER-Because there was a big one on 149 and I don't remember who else was on the
Board when we went through the closing of the one. It was used to build the improvements to 149.
It's right before the big hill,as you're driving east.
MR. MARCELLE-Yes,on the right hand side.
MR. HUNSINGER-And then of course there was the subdivision on Tee Hill Road that we just
approved a couple of years ago, and they started building houses in there now. I mean, that site
was a mess,until,you know,they came in and reclaimed it as an old sand pit,and,you know,they're
starting to put houses in there now.
MR. MARCELLE-I don't know if you've seen them. You're welcome to come up. We'd love to show
you. We kind of cleaned up the front. We put a gate in. We have a gate company and our plan is
to put a gate in there to prevent access and to keep the gate at this end also. We've also let, some of
the neighbors wanted to hunt and sight their guns in and so we gave them permission to do that,
and get in there. So we've tried to be good neighbors. I've returned every phone call that I've
gotten from every complaint of a neighbor or concern about stuff. We're not perfect, but we try to
be responsive and be good neighbors.
MR. KREBS-But I thought that was very nice when I went through the material and I looked at that
permission that you give to the neighbors. You're very specific as to what you're giving them
permission for.
MR. MARCELLE-Yes,there were some folks wanted to sight their guns in and do that kind of stuff.
MR. KREBS-They have to be responsible people.
MR. MARCELLE-Correct. Yes,and we've talked to them,met them personally and stuff.
MR. HUNSINGER-I did go up there today and I have to say I was pleasantly surprised at how clean it
was.
MR. MARCELLE-Yes, we cleaned it up, Chris. We cleaned it up and we put the rocks around there,
put the gate in, and tried to keep it very presentable and, you know, as a good neighbor, again, to
make it as,it's not a neat business on a good day.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. MARCELLE-But we try to keep it clean.
MR. FERONE-What would you foresee for use of the property after you were done, so after five
years?
MR. MARCELLE-Well, we probably, we wouldn't be done here. We just may find more suitable
material up here. We'd still, the sand is still very valuable to us, because we use sand, and we use
more sand than we do stone. So sand is very valuable, and Duke Concrete makes the blocks. So
sand is very important to them,too. So we'd continue mining the sand from here. We think there's
more gravel up here, and this particular parcel here is owned by Peckham Industries and they're in
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the sand and gravel business, too. So we think that's where the material is, and, you know, we've
done some estimates with geologists and done some test holes and it's a crap shoot on a good day of
really what's in there,but that's kind of what we're talking about,but I would like to also thank and
praise the Town. You guys have been,the Town has been wonderful,from the moment we came up
here, to talk to us. Everybody's been listening and very interested and very cooperative and the
professional staff has been extremely helpful, Craig Brown, Laura, everybody's worked with us very
nicely. So it's a credit to the way you run the Town, and the APA folks said the same thing up there
today. They said we don't have any trouble with the Town of Queensbury. They're very
professional. They really know what they're doing, and so they were very complimentary of the
Town,too. So I'll stop talking and let you guys talk.
MR. HUNSINGER-Other questions,comments?
MR. DEEB-It just sounds like there's many pieces to this puzzle.
MR. MARCELLE-There are a lot of pieces to the puzzle.
MR. DEEB-And it's going to take a while for them to fall into place.
MR. MARCELLE-Yes.
MR. DEEB-So I guess I'm not sure what we can do at this point,but.
MR. MARCELLE-Yes, I don't know what comes first, the chicken or the egg. We started with the
Town because obviously we needed the Town permission to mine in the area. So the Town
listened to us,the Town Board, and did the zoning change, which was implemented in June, I think,
at the June meeting. Then we said the next step is the DEC. We talked with them, and they told us,
okay, you guys have been good operators. We know your company and we would consider that a
modification. So, okay,we're okay with that. We met with the APA today,because they're the next
piece. We have to call the Corps of Engineers. So we have to get them engaged, and we want to,
that's our next call tomorrow.
MR. DEEB-Well, is there a contingency if you can't get the road built? Do you have another
contingency?
MR. MARCELLE-Well, quite honestly we could come to you and just ask for a continuation of the,
without building the road, but that's not, that would be disingenuous on our part, because, you
know, we want to make it win/win for everybody. So, we don't need the road. I mean, we could
use the existing road, but that wouldn't be fair to everybody because we said we wanted to build
the road, and so we don't really have a contingency plan, if you will, but I think that what we've
heard from APA, from certainly the Town has been cooperative. DEC is kind of, I think, on board.
After the APA takes a tour, which they're going to give us some dates of when they want to come
down,we're going to get DEC with them. We'd invite the Town,anybody from the Town that wants
to go, too, go up there and take a look at it, walk it and show them what we have. They seemed
pretty amenable,today,to grant us the permission to move forward.
MR. DEEB-If we do get a chance to go up, I would like to.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, I would,too.
MR. MARCELLE-Yes,definitely.
MR. HUNSINGER-So the proposed driveway onto 149,is there an existing apron there?
MR. MARCELLE-No. There is a little bit of an entrance. We have a picture of that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, I saw that.
MR. MARC ELLE-You saw that. There's a gate. You see that gate?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. MARCELLE-And somebody had built a little bit of a road there, but we'd have to get a Town
permit, put a pipe and the drainage and make sure of the driveway cut and stuff with the DOT and
stuff.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 09/16/2014)
MR. HUNSINGER-Because there are three or four locations along 149 where it's only paved out
about two feet,but it's like the beginning of a driveway. So I didn't know if it was one of those.
MR. MARCELLE-No,it is not. It was not part of it.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Because I had a hard time finding it, and obviously I didn't because I
thought it was somewhere else.
MR. MARCELLE-There's a gate, an old farm gate that's there. It's an iron gate. That's the entrance
that we're talking about.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. MARCELLE-And we're trying to tuck it as far as we can up to the north, south, excuse me,to get
as much clearance as we can here because this is a vertical curve. So when people are coming over
the hill,there's a prescribed stopping distance. We can make it work. It's not what requires a light
or anything, but the more we can move, so we said, that's why we showed it right in the corner
here. We originally had it coming out here. We tucked right in the corner because DOT would
prefer that, Creighton Manning,to get as much sight distance as you can for people coming up there.
This is fine right there because there's a light right up there. So the traffic's moving. Sight distance
is the issue.
MR. HUNSINGER-Even that intersection, if you're driving east and you're going to make a left hand
turn.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-You're going to get hit.
MR. HUNSINGER-My gosh it's terrible. It is terrible, or if you're coming down Bay Road and taking
a right, I'd never take a right on red, because you can't see far enough to know if it's clear. Any
concerns from the Board that we want to express to the applicant?
MR. SCHONEWOLF-I think it's a good plan and I commend them for doing their homework.
MR. DEEB-And I think you've done your due diligence on this.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-It's a great business for this Town. I mean, that business is already there, in a
sense,and you're just building onto it,and that's what we need. It's good for our tax base. I'm sure
you pay your taxes.
MR. MARCELLE-Yes,sir,we do,yes,we do. We continue to do that,and we're looking,we currently
are subcontracting out the crushing and processing,and we're, next year we're looking to take over
part of the process and eventually we'll be doing that ourselves. We'll be creating probably four to
six jobs, new jobs. Right now there's a contractor that's inhere from the Cortland area who's doing
it. So those guys are going back home, but we are going to be creating local jobs here and we plan
to hire local folks.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-That was my next question.
MR. MARCELLE-Yes, and we, at the first meeting of the Town, they had asked us about our
demographics, and we have 357 associates working at the Fort Miller Group and I think we put it in
there, a letter John Strough and the Town Board had asked us for. So we have, I think, 19 of our
associates live in the Town of Queensbury. Rosario is one of them actually,lives in the Town.
MR. HUNSINGER-Any other feedback/input we can give you?
MR. MARCELLE-No, other than we would start the, I guess the next step is for us to start the
application for a Special Use Permit, Laura.
MRS.MOORE-Yes.
MR. MARCELLE-And then present that to you, and we'd like you to participate with the APA when
they come in, and DEC will be there and we're going to call the Corps tomorrow so we'll see what
their,have them weigh in on it. Obviously the Corps of Engineers have pretty much, and then DOT
we'd have to talk to again to get our driveway cut and the Town to get the squared away.
MR. DEEB-Do you have a timeline in mind?
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(Queensbury Planning Board 09/16/2014)
MR. MARCELLE-Well, we'd like to keep the momentum going right now. I'm hoping, I don't know
how long it takes, we've heard horror stories, that's what we said to the APA, you know, in sitting
there trying to get all these agencies together I said,you know,we've heard these horror stories and
we don't have an attorney,you know,we're trying to do this ourselves and just be upfront with you,
and they said,well,you know,you guys are prepared. You came in today,the Town obviously liked
what you were doing because they changed their zoning for you, and, you know, and
accommodated your request, so I'm hoping we can get this done in a year. Maybe that's very
optimistic.
MR. HUNSINGER-The wild card is the Army Corps.
MR. MARCELLE-Yes. That's what we were told today by the APA. They said that, you know,
sometimes they weigh in,sometimes they don't.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. MARCELLE-But they were very good. The APA was extremely cooperative and they want to
come down and take a look at it.
MR. KREBS-But I think this is probably one of the best preparations that I have seen.
MR. HUNSINGER-My goodness,yes.
MR. KREBS-I mean,it's complete. It covers everything completely.
MR. HUNSINGER-No,it was very well presented.
MR. MARCELLE-Well, Rosario did that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes,nice job. Good. Okay. Thank you.
MR. MARCELLE-Thank you very much.
MR. HUNSINGER-You're welcome.
MR. MARCELLE-Thank you for the opportunity and you'll be hearing from us again and thank you
again.
MR. KREBS-And we'll save these for the next meeting.
MR. MARCELLE-Yes,save them for the next meeting. Thank you very much.
MR. HUNSINGER-Before we consider any adjournment, Mr. Salvador had asked if he could address
the Board for five minutes. Good evening.
JOHN SALVADOR
MR. SALVADOR-On Monday evening next week, the Town Board is going to conduct a public
hearing on the formation of a responsible management entity on Dunham Bay, but we have had a
map plan and report prepared which we're hoping the Town will find fit to adopt on Monday
evening, and this responsible management entity is going to undertake the inspection of onsite
wastewater systems in the Dunham Bay area. There are 72 properties in this plan. If you're
familiar with the topography of Dunham Bay, but it hasn't lent itself to development because it's
very steep slope, particularly on the east side, steep slope, shallow soils, poor soils. Most of the
dwellings are built right up close to the lake, and anyway when the development started there, I
don't know, 60 years ago, most of them were just cess pools. Some of them have been improved a
little bit too where they have steel septic tanks, but most of them are still just on cess pools. The
idea is to start a pumping program whereby an inspection will be able to locate these cess pools and
we have a program to start a replacement. In any case,the reason I'm here tonight is to encourage
the Planning Board to participate in this public hearing and familiarize yourself with the map plan
and report and what's being proposed and we sure could use a resolution of support. Now I know
the time is short, but as I say, the map plan and report is available at the Clerk's Office, and a few
words of support would sure help.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 09/16/2014)
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Does this include the marina?
MR. SALVADOR-Yes. Which marina? All three marinas are included.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Marinas. Who does the inspection,John?
MR. SALVADOR-Well, a district will have to beset up to the Town. It will be a taxing district.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-My question is Town employees will be doing the inspecting so they'll be
coming on private property without an invitation.
MR. SALVADOR-The district has the authority to undertake the inspection,okay.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-I doubt that.
MR. SALVADOR-New subject. Long before the development and installation by the Town of
Queensbury of municipal sewers to service the following, Million Dollar Half Mile, the Warren
County Municipal Center including the public safety building and Social Services building,The Great
Escape,hotels and motels along Route 9, Bay Road,the County Line Road industrial park and all the
development west of Exit 21 in the Gurney Lane area, the County entered into an agreement with
the City of Glens Falls. I have a copy of this agreement, and from the agreement you can't tell what
it's all about. Now usually a contract or an agreement has consideration on both sides, one person
furnishes something in consideration for the other person furnishing, but there's no indication in
this agreement of any obligation on the part of the City to perform anything. Digging in to the
records at the County I find a commentary by our former Town Supervisor Mr. Dennis Brower,
which would lead us to understand what this agreement is all about, and I'll read you his words.
Mr. Brower commended the Supervisors for the unending support provided to the Town of
Queensbury and the City of Glens Falls, keeping in mind the need for balanced growth within the
County and keeping in mind the need for light industrial manufacturing to balance tourism and
retail growth that the County is already successful in attaining. He continued,noting that thanks to
the Supervisor's great efforts they have been able to achieve a sewer agreement and they are under
construction on the South Queensbury avenue sewer line which will bring sewer to the new
Queensbury industrial park on County Line Road. He said it would also allow them to sewer the
airport and the Warren County Industrial Park which was essentially for the future industrial
growth in the Town. He said it has also allowed them to expand sewer service on Route 9 and they
are moving rapidly to form a district which will extend sewer from the Sleep Inn at the top of Miller
Hill to Route 149. He said that they also intend to sewer Corinth Road past Interstate 87 toward
the industrial parks and Bay Road was also planned to be sewered. Mr. Brower said he felt it was
important for balanced growth for the County and for the future to enable full time year round good
paying jobs with benefits for the residents of the community. This agreement goes back to the Year
2003. Basically the County/City agreement provides for the County to allocate and pay the City of
Glens Falls an amount equal to two percent of unallocated annual County net sales tax,which began
with a payment of $388,000 in 2003, and is destined to continue for a term of 30 years until
December 31, 2031. Due to price inflation alone the annual payment due the City in 2013 escalated
to $515,000. I say this because, and you don't have to take notes, I'm going to leave all of this data
with you. This has all come about because of sewer district extensions that have been approved in
the Town of Queensbury.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Yes, including one right by where you lived, and we never got it done and we
never got the money.
MR. SALVADOR-That was not part of this.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-That wasn't in that agreement?
MR. SALVADOR-No.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-I thought that was the Bay Road part of it.
MR. SALVADOR-In any case, the City has realized already in the 11 years that this contract, this
agreement has been in place, a little over $5,000,000, and in the remaining 19 years of the
agreement, just figuring a modest two percent increase in inflation, another $11,000,000 will be
collected from the City,by the City,and there's just no specificity as to what this money is to be used
for, however we do glean from Mr. Brower's comments it has something to do with a sewer
agreement. Now my, as you know, my big concern is the fact that we continue to discharge our
Queensbury wastewater through the City's combined sewers, necessitating bypass of the flow
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stream to the Hudson River in a storm event. Now one would have thought that the City was
getting enough money to do something about these combined sewers. The attitude of most people
you talk, both Queensbury and the City, is that the problem is just so great, it's just something we
can't tackle. It's like moving the cemetery, you know, where do you start? But there is a solution
to this.
MR. HUNSINGER-One grave at a time.
MR. SALVADOR-Yes. In any case, we're not moving forward very fast with a solution to this
problem, and currently the Town has just undertaken a bond issue to spend close to a million
dollars on some bypass facilities to facilitate repairs to the force main that it has delivering our raw
sewage to this combined sewer. Now if we took the million dollars we were putting into that
project and put it into a new sewer line that could connect to the City's separate sewer at a more
convenient location than where it is now,we would abandon this 25 year old line,but it just,we just
continue to approve these district extensions not doing a supplemental environmental impact
statement to address the issue, and everyone says, you know, that the system has the capacity to
take the new development,and that's not true.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-How do you know that's not true?
MR. SALVADOR-Because the City is forced to bypass, in a storm event, the wastewater going to the
plant. The plant does not have the capacity for peak flows.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-A storm event is one thing, but they've been able to get away with it with
normal sewage, okay a normal flow. There's no incentive for them to do anything. That's the
trouble.
MR. SALVADOR-There's a great incentive. You're not allowed to pollute.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Well,that isn't the way they look at it. That's the problem.
MR. SALVADOR-I know. I've talked to them.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Well, the deal that really ticked me off was that we had all the money and then
they sent it to Bolton. I mean,how stupid can you get.
MR. SALVADOR-Well,think of this money that the County is paying,this two percent. If the County
were not diverting that money to the City, it would be used to reduce our property taxes. Our
County property taxes are being impacted.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. SALVADOR-Not only that,users should pay. If there has to be money paid as an entrance fee to
that City plant, then it should be paid by the district users, not the County at large. That's what's
being done right now. So all because we have people who say, you know, there is sufficient
capacity.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Well,we'll leave it to the next administration. That's what they say.
MR. SALVADOR-Here we are.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. SALVADOR-Anyway, I'll give you a copy of this. The details are inhere.
MR. HUNSINGER-Interesting information.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-It's been going on for years.
MR. HUNSINGER-Other people,were other people aware this was going on? I wasn't.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-You've talked about it ad nausea at the Town Board meeting.
MR. SALVADOR-No,this agreement no one knows.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes,that's what I meant was this agreement,yes.
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MR. SCHONEWOLF-But the problem is.
MR. SALVADOR-I mean,this two percent of$25,000,000 is what we're talking about.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes,that's a lot of money.
MR. SALVADOR-Yes. Every year, for 30 years. Can you imagine it turning into a 30 year
agreement?
MR. HUNSINGER-Wow.
MR. KREBS-Well, and look at the places in Queensbury who have been approved for connections to
the sewer projects who have not chosen to do that, okay. I'm paying sewer bills every quarter,
okay, water and sewer bills, because we're connected to the sewer system, but, well, Surrey Fields,
Cedar Court have chosen not to connect, even though we extended, you know, at one point the
developer of Fowlers Square extended that up there to include and connecting here, okay, in this
building, and those people don't want to spend the money, because as long as the septic works, it's
free.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-It's free. Somebody asked Doug Auer why he didn't turn it on, he said it was
too expensive.
MR. SALVADOR-There are many properties on Route 9 that have not connected.
MR. HUNSINGER-Wow.
MR. KREBS-And in most places when they don't connect, there's usually a fee that they have to pay
because they've chosen not to connect.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right. Yes.
MR. SALVADOR-They pay in Ad valorem. I'll leave this with you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you. Is there any other business to come before the Board?
MRS.MOORE-There's no other business that I have.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-I'll move we adjourn,then.
MOTION TO ADJOURN THE QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 16,
2014, Introduced by Paul Schonewolf who moved for its adoption,seconded by David Deeb:
Duly adopted this 16th day of September, 2014,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Deeb, Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Krebs, Mr.Traver, Mr. Ferone, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Magowan
MR. HUNSINGER-The meeting's adjourned. Thank you everybody.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Chris Hunsinger, Chairman
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