02-14-2017 Informational Presentation (Queensbury Planning Board Informational Presentation 02/24/2017)
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
INFORMATIONAL PRESENTATION
FEBRUARY 14, 2017
INDEX
Discussion Warren County Soil &Water Conservation 1.
Lake George Association
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND
STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES
(IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD
INFORMATIONAL PRESENTATION
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(Queensbury Planning Board Informational Presentation 02/24/2017)
FEBRUARY 14, 2017
6:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
STEPHEN TRAVER, CHAIRMAN
CHRIS HUNSINGER, VICE CHAIRMAN
GEORGE FERONE, SECRETARY
BRAD MAGOWAN
JAMIE WHITE
DAVID DEEB
JOHN SHAFER, ALTERNATE
LAND USE PLANNER-LAURA MOORE
WARREN COUNTY SOIL &WATER CONSERVATION-NICK ROWELL
LAKE GEORGE ASSOCIATION-RANDY RATH
MRS. MOORE-The presentations are loaded if you want to start.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Welcome.
MR. ROWELL-Thank you. I'm Nick Rowell with Warren County Soil and Water. I'm the
Natural Resource Specialist over there, and with my boss, Jim Lieberum, we run the majority of
the Queensbury MS-4 Program along with other individuals throughout the Queensbury
departments, and we also run the Warren County MS-4 Program as well. So I'm kind of
covering both of those. We do similar things for both of them. There's slight differences in the
management plan for each of them. Queensbury's is a little bit more in-depth than the
County's. So the MS-4 Program, I'm sure you guys have heard of it. I've done a similar
presentation before, but there are always updates to the program. It's an EPA mandated
program, but it's run by the DEC thankfully. I'd much rather work with the DEC than the EPA,
but it's a stormwater management program and there's six minimum control measures and
within those minimum control measures there's a list of tasks for each. I'll go over them, and
the way the MS-4 Program is broken out, it's the municipal separate storm sewer system
program and it's created for urbanized areas of certain sizes. So our program runs the majority
of Queensbury, and as of two years ago it now runs up Route 9 and it has encompassed the
Village of Lake George and part of the Town of Lake George as well, and then within that all
Warren County roads encompass that as well. So stormwater, why is a concern? Stormwater
is one of the biggest pollutants in any developed watershed, and when it comes to stormwater
runoff, the pie chart right there is an estimate of the breakdown of like construction site runoff,
agricultural runoff on-site would be in septics and residentials and other would be natural
depositions, stream erosion, similar.
MR. TRAVER-Now as you know one of our main areas of concern is Lake George, and I'm
assuming, looking at this pie chart, that in our area most of the time around the Lake George
basin we're looking at what would be considered agricultural runoff, with lawns going down the
lake and that type of thing?
MR. ROWELL-That would kind of be on-site residential, then with any development construction
would be involved in that, and then just roads in general and just impervious surface in general.
So a good way to define stormwater is any sort of precipitation that is not infiltrated into the
ground, and you would get that in an undeveloped watershed as well. So what we're really
trying to control is the pollutants from impervious surfaces, roads and everything that goes along
with that, the deicing materials along with other municipal operations. So this kind of shows a
breakdown between undeveloped conditions and developed conditions, and the two things to
really note would be the runoff percent, in an undeveloped watershed first runoff in a developed
watershed, and with the developed watershed, like I said, you get a lot more impervious
surface. You get a lot more runoff, but then also another thing to look at is the groundwater
recharge. So when the water is not infiltrating into the ground it runs off to the stream and goes
downstream much quicker, causing issues with streams and deltas and everything that's gone
along with that. So this is a map of the Queensbury area. The red is the urbanized area of the
MS-4 boundary, and you can see where it goes up Route 9 towards Lake George, and this area
expanded two years ago, but the way our office in Queensbury kind of treats the MS-4 Program,
we do the entire Town boundary, but when it comes to certain things like outfalls and water
sampling, we really keep it within the MS-4 boundary, but we mapped all the stormwater
conveyance through the whole Town. So these are the six minimum control measures. I'll
briefly describe each one of them and kind of some tasks that we are currently working on and
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they have to work on them every year to fit under the report, you know, public education and
outreach, similar to what I'm doing now, all the way up through presentations for lake
associations, public participation involvement. We do stream cleanups. We work with schools.
We have an EM river table that we'll bring out. We'll describe erosion and stormwater runoff to
a lot of the kids at different events, illicit discharge detection and elimination. That is mapping
of outfalls, doing water sampling at outfalls, keeping up on water quality data, construction site
runoff. That's inspecting sites, construction, making sure they have their best management
practices in place. Post construction site runoff, making sure the permanent stormwater basins
are put in place, making sure they're maintained, and then pollution prevention and good
housekeeping of municipal operations. So that's working with like the Highway Department,
Buildings and Grounds, you know, making sure all their operations are in order and what they
can do to improve them and evaluate them. So public education. We also do four hour
erosion and sediment control trainings for contractors and that's a requirement for any
development over an acre, and this is a three year certification to be a daily inspector, and we
do it for a lot of the Town folks and other contractors throughout the Town. So public
participation. So we have volunteers. We're always looking for volunteers to help with the
program. We do a lot of outfall sampling with volunteers. We do storm drain markers, only
rain in the drain type things. This year, we had a really good stream clean up this year. We
did Halfway Brook along Hovey Pond, and then also along Quaker Road in front of Lowe's.
That's always an area we try to get.
MR. TRAVER-You must have found some interesting stuff.
MR. ROWELL-You really do. A lot of plastic bags, a lot of coffee cups, but, yes, actually we
had, a lot of these volunteers were from Chazen. Chazen Companies came and helped us out
and we had some public participants. I think Steve Lovering was in there. It was a good crew
this year. We had a lot of fun.
MR. HUNSINGER-So when did you do that?
MR. ROWELL-We did this one, God, I want to say maybe July or August.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. ROWELL-And we usually put out a notice. We send it to the Town. We send it to kind of
our folks, our water quality committees. We usually reach out to a few different businesses.
We write letters. We've tried to get Lowe's a couple of years in a row to help us out, but Chazen
has helped us out in years past and they helped us out this year.
MR. TRAVER-And do you send that to our Planning Staff so we can put it on our Town
website?
MR. ROWELL-Yes, I think we do.
MRS. MOORE-It is. It goes up on the Town website.
MR. TRAVER-Great.
MR. ROWELL-So, yes, this was a good one this year. Illicit discharge detection elimination.
So what we'll do every year, we'll pick 25% of the outfalls and we'll go and collect water quality
data, collect things like this, what this little cotton swab does is absorb water. We leave it in
there for five minutes and then look for detergents. We'll do pH testing. We'll do ammonia
testing, and then from there we'll pick some higher risk outfalls in more developed areas and
we'll bring them up to the Darren Freshwater Institute and they'll run E.coli. They'll run a fecal
coliform, metals and everything for us, and illicit discharge covers everything from outfalls to
things like this. We were actually out doing some stormwater mapping and there was a car
driving down the road leaking either gas or oil and it was just like a perfect time for a photo, but,
yes, you know, illicit discharge is anything in the stormwater system that's not stormwater, and
then in winter the Highway Department also does winter sampling for chlorides and conductivity,
and then along with minimum control measure, three, we also do all the mapping of the
stormwater conveyance in the Town and keep that up to date, and this kind of shows you the
process. You've got the drop inlet. You look in there. You see where the pipes go, and then
eventually to an outfall.
MR. HUNSINGER-You have all of the stormwater in the Town mapped?
MR. ROWELL-Yes. I mean, I never say 100%, because, you know, there's always new
updates, pipes we didn't know that were there.
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MR. HUNSINGER-Is that on-line or is that otherwise available for the public?
MR. ROWELL-It is. George Hilton, the GIS guy, created a beautiful website for it where you
can find even all the outfall data, look on the points and see where they are, see what's been
sampled. George does a good job at all the information I sent him. He makes it look good.
MR. SHAFER-In the wintertime when you test for salt, is there a standard above which you're
concerned, below which you're not? Because there's always going to be salt.
MR. ROWELL-Yes, and, you know, you certainly do find it, but what you want to look for is kind
of a reduction over time. You don't want to, you know, and I usually require, with the Darren
Freshwater Institute, to ask them, like, how high is this level in comparison to what you've seen
from your professional opinion? We haven't seen anything too extreme.
MR. SHAFER-Do you have time series data going back several years?
MR. ROWELL-Yes, we've been collecting those samples for five years now I believe.
MR. SHAFER-Because the articles in the paper say the salt content of Lake George is rising.
MR. ROWELL-Certain ly. I mean, that's probably, that data was probably over the 30 year data
that has been collected, certainly, but I think with the techniques that are coming on now like
brines and the new plows, the live edge plows. So I saw one of those the other day with a Lake
George truck and it worked really, really well, but also you have the fun doing GPS tracking of
the trucks, to kind of get a better idea of how much it's spread you know, per lane mile, the Lake
George basins, and certainly, you know, over the 30 years you are going to see an increase.
This is kind of what some of the stormwater conveyance maps look like, and what's been good
with doing this mapping and finding areas in the field, it's led to grants and grant projects. We
currently have two stormwater grants that incorporate Queensbury projects. So a lot of good
has come out of this, and then construction site runoff controls. So Bruce Frank will go out and
he'll inspect the sites, he'll inspect their temporary stormwater management structures. Similar,
this is like road erosion and silt fence, he'll make sure that's in place, drop inlet protection,
making sure sediment isn't runoff through the site into the system, and then post construction
site runoff control. So the Town's got to maintain an inventory of all the post construction
stormwater management practices, and a lot of times what gets lost in developments is who's
supposed to maintain it, and that's a part of the stormwater management plans, and this is a
sediment basin and eventually it will have to be maintained, but this is also a permanent
stormwater control, and then pollution prevention. So there's a list of tasks under this, but
some of them that the Town Highway does is they clean out all the drywells that are installed
each year. They have a crew out there, but they're only required to do 25% a year, and they do
well over that. They do a great job at maintaining these structures, taking out all of the
sediment and then also the stormwater separators. This one's this is Halfway Brook right here,
across from the big Price Chopper on Glen Street, and there's a big stormwater separator in
there that we clean out with the Highway Department each year, and they do a really good job,
and then current projects. So right now in 2016, 2017 we have two grants. One of them I'm
trying to get through right now. I've got one resident on board that we're going to install, it's a
green streets program, and this is really a pilot project, and that's taking those grass medians
between the sidewalk and the road and doing curb cut outs to bio-retention basins that are
planted with, you know, like sedges and grasses and so we have one resident on Fort Amherst
that is going, that is on board. We're going to install one next year, and I'm hoping when
people see it, it catches on to, you know, this is a benefit, it takes stormwater runoff, you know,
infiltrates it instead of just going to the drop inlet and out to Halfway Brook, and I think once
people see it it will catch on, but it's an aesthetics thing, too. People like their maintained
grass.
MR. HUNSINGER-So the plants that you put in those, how readily available are they?
MR. ROWELL-Actually the nurseries around here are becoming more aware of it. They're all
native New York plant nurseries that we have worked with, but, yes, these plants are becoming
pretty easy to find now and, you know, usually we sent out quotes for raingardens, for plants
that are hardy for salt, that are New York natives, that can handle the drought and the flood
conditions of a raingarden, and we get, you know, one quote back, and the rest of them would
say go to that nursery, go to that nursery, but now, you know, we're getting five quotes back
because a lot of them are starting to carry these plants because they realize, oh, this is an area
that is selling plants now.
MR. TRAVER-And where are these grants largely coming from?
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MR. ROWELL-These two grants are through the New York State DEC. They're a water quality
improvement program, then we've worked with the Pine View Cemetery. They had some
issues last fall with some stormwater runoff that kind of damaged their banks. So we put in a
grant this year to get that bank fixed for them. Also in the Glen Lake watershed we've put in
raingardens, bio retentions with drywells and them to kind of capture all the stormwater runoff
from this area before it gets to the stream. We did porous pavers at the Glen Lake boat launch,
at 3800 square feet. I remember when Steve called me. He took this picture. This is with
porous pavers and this is without porous pavers. The first year he put them in, and he's like,
these things are great. Let's do the whole boat launch. Because you can see in winter, you
can see the snow here, it stays nice and dry. Once it melts you don't get those frozen puddles.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. It's pretty neat. I mean, I've been over there quite a bit in season kayaking
and stuff like that and it's pretty neat the way it works and it's nice looking. It basically looks
like gravel, but you can see the framework underneath.
MR. ROWELL-Yes, and they're easy to install, and in areas where you're so close to the lake,
you're so close to the groundwater, there's really not a lot to do. So this form of kind of shallow
infiltration works really well. We did vegetative swales. This was at the Pine View Cemetery,
two years ago where they were having flooding problems at one of their garages. That would
actually flood and then freeze shut in winter. It's coming off the large, what's over there.
MRS. MOORE-Texas Roadhouse.
MR. ROWELL-Panera and everything, and now it's kind of coming off there and the hillside and
this swale diverted in and infiltrated it and it worked out really well. So no longer are they
freezing in winter. This is the website George Hilton created, and it's got, this is the stormwater
sampling sheet, and you see all the stormwater conveyances. This isn't a very good photo, but
he did a good job with that website, and these are our two MS-4 websites. This is at our
website for Warren County Soil and Water, MS-4 section, then Queensbury has the whole
stormwater section that covers the MS-4 Program.
MS. WHITE-Do you have like a handout or anything so we can catch those later?
MRS. MOORE-1 can get a copy of the PowerPoint.
MS. WHITE-Awesome.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, could you e-mail that to us maybe?
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
MR. TRAVER-That would be neat.
MRS. MOORE-All right.
MR. TRAVER-In fact what we were talking about earlier, I think Tom would be interested in that.
Thank you.
MRS. MOORE-Okay. Yes.
MR. ROWELL-And then I've got the two management plans here, if you guys are interested in
looking at it more in depth, but it covers all the tasks that run with all those minimum control
measures and everything included. So thank you very much.
MRS. MOORE-Thank you.
MR. TRAVER-Thank you.
RANDY RATH
MR. RATH-My turn. So Nick and I are kind of tag teaming this. So basically Jim ask if we
could talk, if the LGA could come and talk about essentially what can homeowners do to help
with the MS-4 Program. So we have a couple of interesting things. Just a little quick blurb on
the LGA. It was established in 1885 and we are the oldest lake association in the U.S. and we
try to take a balanced outlook, I guess, in looking at water quality issues and lake management
issues. We try to educate people. We have our floating classroom. We also do what I do.
I'm the Project Manager and we do lake saving projects. So we do stormwater projects. We
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work with Soil and Water all the time. We also work with the Town of Lake George and we try
to help out with some funding on a lot of the projects. Nick already talked about stormwater. I
think my graphic is a little nicer than Nick's, but essentially it says the exact same thing. You
get your 10% runoff. Basically you have an undeveloped site versus 55% with a fully
developed site. So looking specifically at Queensbury, and this is the Champlain watershed.
So we actually got a data set of impervious cover for the entire Lake Champlain basin, but this
is specifically to the Town of Lake George. So in that we have about 28,000, or excuse me,
29,800 watershed acres. Of that about 2400 of that is impervious cover, and so 2400 acres,
and you can see all this basically right through here, Downtown, there's Lowe's and this is
Glens Falls here cut out. So you see where it's highly developed. It's about eight percent of
the watershed, and in looking at this, the Lake George watershed kind of comes down through
here, and you have the Halfway Brook watershed and some other watersheds. So as the
watersheds become smaller, as you get them in the sub watersheds, that develop, percentage
develop in that watershed is going to change and in this area it's obviously going to increase it
by quite a bit. So what we did is we looked at, Jim Lieberum and I were talking and we said,
okay, well, what is, how much, what's impervious, roads, obviously, and then you have private
things that are impervious. So we split it out. Actually we didn't, George Hilton did. We
asked George to do this because he had the coverage as well. The darker, you know, you
have the black are the roads. Obviously you can see the road network. The red areas, those
are the public impervious. So basically where we're at now. I think that's right around here,
and then the rest is private. That's all the pink area. So you have your Lowe's, your shopping
centers and things like that, but you also have your residential areas. That's actually 67% of
the impervious surfaces is private. So when you think of runoff and you think of who's going to
be, you know, the DPW they've got to handle all this runoff from the roads. A lot of that's
private. So that's, you know, why we're here. So I'll focus in on it a little bit just on this area
here, just to give you kind of a better idea of what I'm talking about. You have all these pink
areas. Those are all homes and driveways and things like that. That makes up some of that
67%, and so what percentage of that goes to the roads, we just kind of came up with a ballpark,
what if 30% of that does. So if you think about your house, if you're on any kind of a hill, your
driveway's going to go down to the road. Where does your runoff from your house go? Does
it go to your driveway and then go down to the road? Does it fall off the back of the house, the
side of the house or do you live on the bottom of a hill? So if we took a ballpark of 30% and
that goes down to the public roads, it's about a 66% increase, bringing up the total to about
1200 acres within the watershed now that the Town DPW has to deal with as far as stormwater
goes. So what can the homeowner do? We obviously, we focus on lake friendly living to
minimize runoff, but we can change that to watershed friendly living. We actually have a guide
here, and I can pass this around, you can just quick look at it. This is actually being updated.
It should be updated by, we're hoping by May, along with a new raingarden brochure, how to
make a raingarden, but what we'd like to do is you want to minimize runoff, eliminate pollutants,
capture and infiltrate. That's basically what Nick was talking about as well. Some of the things
that you can do as a homeowner, rain barrels. Rain barrels are excellent. You can do porous
or permeable pavers. Also there's porous asphalt that's been used on Beach Road in Lake
George and off of West Brook parking lot and some other areas, too. We did work with an
engineer to develop I guess a formula to use on driveways, but the problem with that on private
driveways is it costs quite a bit of money for a plant to just shut everything down and create this
porous mix. So what you really need to do is kind of get a group of homeowners that want to
do it at the same time so that somebody can go in and do about four or five driveways, and we
haven't really been able to coordinate that yet.
MR. HUNSINGER-Can you buy the rain barrels just about anywhere?
MR. RATH-Yes, actually these right here we got a grant from the Lake Champlain basin
program. These are from Home Depot. They're 58 gallon raingarden, or rain barrels. They
hook right into your drain. Once they fill up and then everything just runs through, and that
came with a cheaper plastic spigot. We ended up buying brass spigots just so that it would last
a little bit longer and it wouldn't just break and people would be like, oh, these are junk. It's a
really nice rain barrel. It fits in well with these houses, and one of the folks that got it, they like
to put their granddaughter to work so she waters all the plants around the house and they run a
hose to it and the bring it right out to the garden, and like I said it fits in really well, and they're
easy to do, and Jim, he wanted us to mention this. He did it at his house, he just took old
garbage cans and he hooked them up with PVC and he daisy chained them, a whole bunch of
them together, and you can, you know, string them right along the edge of the house, put in like
five or six. They do fill up fast, and we've even done some things with sisterns. We're trying to
get some sisterns to put in at some of the local schools to see if they would do that, handle
stormwater.
MR. TRAVER-So Home Depot has these kits, you say. Do you recall what they charge?
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MR. RATH-Yes, these, we got six rain barrels and they were about $1,000, that includes, with
the upgraded spigots. So about a little under $200 apiece. I think it was like $158, something
like that, and we also, obviously living near the lake we talk about buffers. Buffers are really
good for a lake, but why couldn't you just do that on your house, too that's, you know, buffering
a road? Let me actually back up a little bit. So if you think about it, if you've got your front
lawn and it goes right down to a road and you have grass all the way to it, it's going to rain.
You're going to capture some of that stormwater's going to get into the grass and infiltrate, but a
lot of that's still going to just run right off into the road. So if you put in a buffer, that's going to
help capture it, and it actually could add to the value of the house, and all sorts of things, and
just a couple of photos that we've done as far as buffers go. Here's a spot in rainbow beach
that we had some stormwater issues coming off the road, going this way into the lake, so we put
in a buffer there. That's it going in planted and after a couple of months of growth what it
looked like, and basically essentially slows down the stormwater, doesn't allow it to go directly
into the lake, and as I mentioned, we're also redoing our, we're going to have a new brochure
for basically how to build a raingarden, and we'd like to use a lot of native plants in ours that we
put in. Again, as Nick mentioned, they're more hardy. They're used to this climate, and both
being, when they're feet are soaking wet for a couple of days, as the water comes in, and it'll
also be able to withstand dry periods so that they're a little bit drought resistant. This is a
raingarden in Silver Bay. There's a lot of rain that comes in, or runoff that comes down the hill
and it just kind of pooled here. So it was a natural spot to put in a raingarden, and it just looks
nice when it's done, and it's also keeping stormwater from running out into their walking areas
and flowing down into the lake or into the road wherever it may be, and here's just another
raingarden up at, this is the Ticonderoga beach house, and just kind of a little bit of how it was
built, going down a couple of inches, putting in some new material. We have found that the
DEC recommends a mix, a soil mix, and then also the University of New Hampshire has put out
a mix that they recommend, and the New Hampshire one actually has a little bit more sand in it,
and it's about 85 to 90% sand, with some compost, and that seems to work really well. We
have that in our garden out front of our building and it allows the water to permeate through it
and it also keeps the plants, enough moisture in there for the plants to survive. So it works
really well. If you have too much compost in there, then things plug up and it really does more,
it doesn't drain well and it basically becomes a pond, but again, this is up in Ti. Planting here a
little bit of a buffer around that and to create some more of a depression and then so planted in
May. That's what it looks like in June, and in August it's a completed garden and it looks like
it's been there for a number of years. So just some simple things you can do at home. Like I
said, rain barrels, raingardens, do around the house, and it does help, and as I mentioned a
bunch of that is of private areas that are, could be contributing to stormwater. So that's that,
and we'll have these available, the updated versions. They'll be on line and available at our
office as well, we can send you can e-mail.
MRS. MOORE-Thank you.
MR. TRAVER-Good. Thank you.
MRS. MOORE-Okay. Any questions? I know you're an applicant, but do you have any
questions for them? No? Okay. All right. Well thank you both again for being here.
MR. RATH-Thanks for having us.
MRS. MOORE-That's it.
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