05-16-2017 QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
MAY 16. 2017
INDEX
Site Plan PZ 140-2016 Joseph P. Gross
1.
Tax Map No. 309.17-1-17.2
Site Plan No. 4-2017 Frank Perrotta, Jr. 2.
Tax Map No. 239.7-1-38
Site Plan No. 38-2017 Chris Mackey 19.
ZBA RECOMMENDATION Tax Map No. 308.16-1-54
Subdivision Prelim. Stg. 7-2017 James Beaty 22.
Subdivision Final Stg. 8-2017 Tax Map No. 290.5-1-50
ZBA RECOMMENDATION
Site Plan (Modification) 32-2017 Glenn Durlacher 25.
ZBA RECOMMENDATION Tax Map No. 295.12-1-4
Subdivision Prelim. Stg. 6-2017 Paul Poirier 29.
Subdivision Final Stg. 9-2017 Tax Map No. 309.14-1-46
Freshwater Wetlands Permit 2-2017
Site Plan No. 13-2017 Stephen, Carol &Andrew Bodette 40.
Tax Map No. 289.10-1-32
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND
STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES
(IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
MAY 16, 2017
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
STEPHEN TRAVER, CHAIRMAN
CHRIS HUNSINGER, VICE CHAIRMAN
GEORGE FERONE, SECRETARY
DAVID DEEB
BRAD MAGOWAN
THOMAS FORD
JAMIE WHITE
LAND USE PLANNER-LAURA MOORE
TOWN COUNSEL-FITZGERALD, MORRIS, BAKER, FIRTH-MIKE CROWE
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
MR. TRAVER-Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We will call the 10th meeting of 2017 of
the Town of Queensbury Planning Board to order. There are, or should be, agendas on the
back table. One item of note is that the second item on our agenda, Greg Teresi, is on the
agenda for a Planning Board recommendation to the ZBA. If you are here for that application
you should be advised that that application has been withdrawn. So we will not be hearing that
this evening, or until further notice. So with that we will begin, and I think we have an
Administrative Item.
MRS. MOORE-So I'll explain. The Administrative Item is a request from Gross Electric to have
an extension of their project which involved an extension of their existing building on Silver Bay
Circle, and they have not, they're in the process of filing for the building permit, but their
expiration comes this Friday for their Site Plan and Area Variance, so I suggested that they
request their extension and we put down a one month extension. So I'm anticipating the
building permit will be filed shortly.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So one month.
MR. HUNSINGER-Maybe we should give him more time.
MR. MAGOWAN-Because that is his busy season.
MRS. MOORE-He actually physically asked for 10 days from his letter.
MR. TRAVER-So if we give him three times that he ought to be really happy.
MRS. MOORE-Absolutely.
MR. DEEB-He'll get it done. You know how he is.
MR. TRAVER-Yes.
MR. FERONE-Do we need to provide the specific date or just one month will suffice?
MRS. MOORE-One month is fine.
MR. FERONE-Okay.
RESOLUTION EXTENDING FOR ONE MONTH SP PZ 140-2016 JOSEPH P. GROSS
MOTION TO APPROVE A ONE MONTH EXTENSION FOR SITE PLAN NO. PZ 140-2016
GROSS ELECTRIC, Introduced by George Ferone who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Brad Magowan:
Duly adopted this 16th day of May, 2017 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Deeb, Ms. White, Mr. Ford, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Ferone, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
MR. TRAVER-All right. We move on to our regular agenda. The first item we have is a Tabled
item. Site Plan 4-2017 for Frank Perrotta, Jr.
TABLED ITEM:
SITE PLAN 4-2017 SEAR TYPE TYPE II FRANK PERROTTA, JR. AGENT(S) DENNIS
MAC ELROY OWNER(S) SAME AS APPLICANT ZONING WR LOCATION ASSEMBLY
POINT ROAD/KNOX RD. ACCESS APPLICANT PROPOSES A 3,467 SQ. FT.
(FOOTPRINT), 8,625 SQ. FT. (FLOOR AREA) SINGLE FAMILY HOME. PURSUANT TO
CHAPTER 179-3-040 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, MAJOR STORMWATER AND
PROJECT WITHIN 50 FT. OF 15% SLOPES SHALL BE SUBJECT TO PLANNING BOARD
REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE SUNSET HILL SUB 11-96, SP 38-
2004 BOATHOUSE W/SUNDECK AV 4-2017 WARREN CO. REFERRAL JANUARY 2017
SITE INFORMATION APA, LGPC, WETLANDS LOT SIZE 5.52 ACRES TAX MAP NO.
239.7-1-38 SECTION 179-3-040
DENNIS MAC ELROY & MICHAEL BORGOS, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. TRAVER-Laura, do you want to give us an update on that?
MRS. MOORE-Yes. With the Staff Notes I have identified or highlighted a few of the items that
have been updated. So under Site Layout and Utility Plan the well location is on the west side
of the home and the septic is now on the northeast side. I indicated that, the next one is
grading and drainage. The project is subject to a Major Stormwater permit for non-disturbance
and under Revision the plans show an additional grass swale area down gradient of the house
site whereas previous to that was the septic systems. That's moved to the other side of the
house. Under Landscaping plan, the applicant has provided a re-vegetation plan. The
applicant indicated that they would utilize some of the existing white pine on site and distribute
them throughout the site to have them more dispersed, and then the Planning Board at the last
meeting requested six deciduous trees planted on the site and those have been located, and
those are the only updates to the project.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MR. BORGOS-Good evening. Michael Borgos on behalf of the applicant Frank Perrotta who is
here with us in the audience. Here at the table with me is Dennis MacElroy, the engineer on
the project; Steve Adler, designer of the house. I think the Board is well familiar with the
project. Laura summarized the changes. You asked that we make those, consider those
changes at the last meeting. I'm going to let Dennis go through exactly those details with you,
and if there are any other questions I'd be happy to answer them or Steve, Frank, any of us
would be happy to jump right in.
MR. MAC ELROY-Thank you, Mike. At the last meeting in March there was a tabling resolution
that requested five different items to be modified, added, whatever to the plan. In my submittal
letter to you on April 17th, I summarized, I repeated what was requested and summarized how
we had addressed those. So I'll just briefly cover them. Item Number One, revegetation plan
will be submitted with the addition of six deciduous trees of three inch caliper. I would note that
we were the ones that had offered the concept of the revegetation plan initially and the Board
embraced that, and so we had followed up with certain information, a new plan sheet S-5 and 6,
which, or did I get that wrong again, 7 and 8. In my response I said 5 and 6, but it is in fact
Sheets 7 and 8. New sheets, new plan set, which identify the general area of re-vegetation and
the area of say the site development, which would have its own landscape package that would
be typical of a residential development. That's not really subject to your review at this point, but
just to make that distinction, and within that development area, that's where we've placed and
located the six deciduous trees that you had requested. So you've got two different areas, the
development area immediately around the house that will have those six deciduous, and then
the revegetation plan which is a generally defined area where the site had been damaged due
to storm and the subsequent cleanup of that area. There's been a second growth occurring
over these last five years since the storm. We just would hope to encourage that and spread
out the second growth that is becoming established and try to transplant that. Now we sought
an opinion from the Warren County Soil and Water Conservation District on this, just to make
sure we were heading in the right direction. That response and what not is in the file, my letter
to Jim Liebrum and his response are all part of the record. So I think we feel we're on good
ground as far as helping to re-establish growth that was lost prior to this owner's ownership of
the property. Number Two, the septic system will be moved to the ridge. Laura said northeast
but I think it's more to the northwest portion of the property. We've located that, or re-located
that wastewater system, and still are proposing a shallow absorption field system. It will require
pumping. That is a difference. Very similar soils. We went out and did additional test pits in
that area, test pits and perc tests in that area. We've provided that design. It's the same
sizing, a little different configuration, but we've shown that in that area that was discussed and
agreed upon basically in our last meeting. I feel strongly that the original design was adequate
and legal. I don't want to bog down the meeting, but Chris Navitsky's interpretation of that
definition is absolutely wrong, and I've sought other opinions on that since then. I've got
Department of Health design books. I've got EPA design books. I've got the Town's books and
definition on that. His interpretation was for a reason, in order to say that the system wasn't
proper because it was a fill system. Well that's, again, absolutely wrong. So we moved that,
though. There's other reasons why it could be beneficial to the owner to do that, to have
moved that. So that's why I don't object to the modification of the design, and that location did
require us to move the well location a little bit, but that really doesn't, that's not a major factor.
So that's been complied with. A full signoff letter will be provided addressing all Chazen
Engineering issues. We've provided the revisions to Chazen for their review. They issued a
letter on May 9th, which is part of the file, saying that any of their outstanding comments have
been addressed to their satisfaction. So that's, and their area of review is related to stormwater.
So any and all stormwater issues, soil, sediment and erosion control, they're satisfied with, as
far as the information that's been provided. Number Four, the addition of the stormwater
management swale from the area where the septic system is being located. Without the septic
system in that location, we could simply extend that, enlarge the area of stormwater
management. This gives us more than enough capacity, extra capacity to handle stormwater
management in compliance with the Town's regulations. I think a little later in this discussion I
can get into a little more detail, but I don't want to bog you down with technical facts, but I think
there's some response that I want to make to a future comment about that. And the fifth one,
very simply, was on the plans the setback of the septic system and distance should be provided.
So we've indicated that, those setback distances, 15 feet from the northern boundary, 15 feet
from the western boundary. So that information is on there. So those were the comments
obtained from the Board that were part of the resolution. We've addressed those comments.
Chazen has signed off. So I'd be glad to answer any further questions that you have.
MR. TRAVER-Just one clarification to start with. The signoff letter from Chazen, does that
include the revision of the stormwater, the expansion of the stormwater management in the prior
area for septic and also the new septic system?
MR. MAC ELROY-It involved, yes. They've received the revised stormwater control report, the
SCR, and have found that to be satisfactory.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Questions from members of the Planning Board?
MR. DEEB-I'll just comment. We appreciate you working with us because we try to work with
everybody and I commend you for the five items that were suggested. So thank you.
MR. MAC ELROY-Thank you.
MR. MAGOWAN-Yes, thank you.
MR. FORD-Could you address the issue of the stone bed? Because people make reference to
a certain number of square footage minimum.
MR. MAC ELROY-Within the stormwater basins, one of the provisions in the ordinances having
the capacity, 10% capacity for winter conditions, so that that stone bed would go to a depth of
four feet below frost level, so that in winter conditions there would still be access to the soil
below.
MR. FORD-But when you're talking about square footage.
MR. MAC ELROY-That would have to do with the area that's necessary for the stormwater
capacity that we provide. Square footage of that stone bed area.
MR. FORD-How do you determine, we know the square footage minimum, but what's the
maximum?
MR. MAC ELROY-1 suppose it could all be, have a continuous stretch of four feet deep stone,
but that's beyond what, and we're complying with the standard 10%.
MR. FORD-1 was just interested. Just the minimum was given and not a range.
j.
MR. MAC ELROY-Right, it's the minimum area at four foot depth. Further on in the details
there's an indication of that depth of four feet. So the surface area would be the 75 in the one
area and the 95 in the other.
MR. FORD-Ninety-five in the other. Thank you.
MR. TRAVER-Other questions from members of the Planning Board?
MR. FERONE-1 know in our previous meeting, and again Mr. Deeb said we appreciate
everything you've done regarding this plan. There's a lot of conversation, and you said you
brought it up yourself, about re-vegetation, okay, and that lends itself to a lot of public comment
about, concern about runoff, and you've done all of that with your stormwater management, but
on the re-vegetation plan it says the plan is to re-plant one white pine sand plane minimum
density of every 400 square foot. That sounds kind of sparse. If that's minimum, what are you
really looking to achieve there in terms of the number of trees you're looking at?
MR. MAC ELROY-That's about one every 400 square feet. So that allows that growth. Right
now we've got clustering of white pines typically. They're growing and they're on top of each
other. They won't survive. The strong will survive. It provides a certain coverage that isn't
there now. Certainly. I thought that that was a reasonable density. I know that Jim had
looked at it, Jim Liebrum from Warren County Soil and Water. He agreed with what we
presented.
MR. FERONE-Okay.
MR. FORD-For a white pine that makes sense.
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes, I mean, if you think of them maturing and that's not to say that there
isn't other growth that's there as well. What we're trying to do is focus on distributing the
growth that's there.
MR. FERONE-And then you're going to add some other trees there.
MR. MAC ELROY-Well the six deciduous that you requested, yes, and those are up closer to
the house, to sort of frame and filter from certain angles, but at that size, it will take a while
before it gets big and growth on those.
MR. TRAVER-We do have a public hearing on this application. Are there members of the
Planning Board that have additional questions before we open the public hearing?
MR. HUNSINGER-No, I just wanted to comment that I saw that you did additional perc tests.
MR. HUNSINGER-Correct, in the new area of wastewater. So that's just part and parcel to the
design. We changed the location. We've done the testing that's typical and required.
MR. HUNSINGER-It certainly looks like the test pit data was suitable for.
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes, it's typical for the soils, and I'd re-emphasize, we do on site the testing
of the soils. We're not reading from a book that tells about generally what the soils are going to
be. Charlie Maine, rest his soul, didn't go to every one of these properties in Warren County
and do soils tests. That soils book, there is an overall analysis of what the soils are in various
areas of the County. At the time of specific design we do specific site testing. It's not
something that you gain from reading a book. That gives you a general idea of what's
happening or what's there at the site. Sometimes it's spot on, sometimes it's not. So that's
why we do the on-site testing.
MR. TRAVER-All right. Very good. Well, we do have a public hearing on this application. Are
there folks in the audience that would like to comment on this application? Yes, sir.
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
JOHN COLLINS
MR. COLLINS-My name is John Collins. I live at 35 Knox Road. I'll get to the material I just
sent out to you. I just want to set the stage. Subsequent to the last Planning Board meeting, I
went back and looked at the original Planning Board meetings that dealt with the original
subdivision approval for Sunset Hill. There were 12 meetings over the period from October
1991 to June 1993. There are 180 pages of minutes, legal size, covering all the topics
discussed at that time and the public delivered 24 separate comments on this. There were very
key concerns, not only of the Planning Board members, but also the public and just to
summarize quickly was the number of lots, given the topography and the difficulty at the site to
develop. The visual impact, the goal to try and leave the property in its natural state, and those
are words right out of the Planning Board minutes. Stormwater management, septic systems,
fire and safety access and the use of best practices to protect adjoining properties on the lake.
Now Dennis just brought up the fact that he did specific soils testing. Well, if you go back and
read the minutes, the engineering firm for the developer, Rist-Frost, did all kinds of perc tests,
specific soil tests, at that time, and they based their design on the soil at that time, and then
lastly a big issue was enforceability of restrictions or conditions on the development. Now the
approved and filed subdivision plan includes specific notes including, and I quote, the limits of
clearing for the drives, houses, septic fields and wells, as shown, and shall be strictly adhered
to. Separately on Page 45 of the April 29th, 1992, the motion for the Preliminary Stage approval
stated clearing is to be kept to a 10 to 15 foot buffer, consistent with fire regulations, with a
maximum of 15 feet, and that related to, again, the house, the drive, the septic, the stormwater,
everything. Secondly there was also another specific direction. No clearing or construction is
allowed in the 35 foot wetland buffer. This stipulation effects among other lots Number Six,
which is Mr. Perrotta's. Now, there was discussion throughout the various Planning Board
meetings about the use of best practices and development of this unique property, especially
regarding stormwater management, and if you refer to Page Four of the approved and filed
subdivision plan, there is great detail regarding septic, stormwater and driveway construction.
Now again, I heard Dennis MacElroy today say a couple of times that the design is adequate
and it's legal. Well, if you go back and read the Board minutes, throughout those 12 meetings,
the standard wasn't going to be adequate and legal. It was the best practices. Everyone
acknowledged that this is a fragile piece of land, a key piece of land on Assembly Point, and it
had to be developed very carefully. Now, with regard to the clearing of the land, the applicant
and his representatives have stated, and Dennis MacElroy implied again tonight, in the prior
meetings, that the vast majority of the trees on the property were destroyed in Hurricane Irene,
which occurred during late August 2011, and the remaining trees that were cut down were
incidental to the damaged trees. Now members of the public, me included, stated that the
property was clear cut by the prior owner to clear the property for re-sale and development.
Well, what did I bring tonight? I brought Google maps from October 8, 2011, so after Hurricane
Irene, which shows some blow down of trees, but there is heavy vegetation on that property,
and then a Google maps shot from May 5th, 2015, and you can see the massive amount of clear
cutting that occurred. So guess what, it didn't happen because of Irene. It happened due to
the actions of the prior owner. Now, when you look at it, it struck me as well, that in addition to
violating the clearing restrictions, if you go back to the filed map, you can see there's a
delineation of wetlands, and there was another stated condition. You can't be within 35 feet of
wetlands, and there is, if I'm looking at the property near where the spit of land goes to the lake
on the east side of Assembly Point, there is a shed that's located, and in the filed map you can
see there's wetlands right near there. Now look to the May 2015 shot, and you can see all the,
darn near all the trees have been clear cut right to the property line. So I would submit that it is
likely that he also violated the 35 foot buffer on the wetlands. The conclusion you have to come
to is the prior owner clear cut the property in violation of the restrictions, both on the clearing
limitations and very potentially the 35 foot buffer. Dennis referred to Jim Liebrum's opinion.
You've got to read the opinion. You just can't take that as his words for it. It is some general
statements about, is it better to re-plant, or is it better to allow reforestation to occur on its
normal course, and he does say in that letter that you need to, he hasn't taken into account the
specific goals of the Town in this, and I say the goals are very clear. When you read all of the
minutes back in '91 through '93, it's proper development using best practices. So where does
that leave us? It's clear that the prior owner flaunted the Town of Queensbury in violating the
stated restrictions. So then I step back, is it reasonable for Mr. Perrotta to be held accountable
for the violations of the prior owner? Well, one, if you don't, then you've just left a loophole for
anybody out there to go clear cut a property, ignore all your restrictions, and then flip it to the
next guy and the next guy gets a clean slate. So now I step back to Mr. Perrotta. Number
One, Mr. Perrotta owned a house on Knox Road from August 30, 2010 to September 20, 2013.
Irene hit in August 2011. Therefore he is aware of the damage that was caused by Irene on
Assembly Point and specifically around Knox Road. Second, the filed plan of subdivision on
its face, states the clearing limitations. Third, it is clear by walking the property that his lot was
cleared far beyond the level of all adjoining properties in the subdivision, and as is shown, to be
cleared on the approved and filed plan of subdivision. Four, Mr. Perrotta engaged Dennis
MacElroy to represent him in this application, and lastly, Dennis spoke as a member of the
public at five separate occasions between 1991 and '92 at the Planning Board meetings. He
submitted, I believe, three separate letters expressing a multitude of concerns on such issues
as developability of the parcel, stormwater, driveway construction, tree clearing, visual impact
and enforceability in the stated restrictions and conditions and it's really interesting if you go
back and read about Dennis' concern about what happens to the next owner and the owner
after that when they ignore the conditions you put on. Okay. So he was a major proponent of
the stated conditions and restrictions as well as detailed drawing, because he wanted to make
sure every, the following owners really understood what the Planning Board put in place and
have their wishes be carried out, and if you need more color as to the level of Dennis' concern,
look at Page 11 on the February 25, 1992 minutes. Page 20 and 21 of the March 17th, `92
minutes and Page Two to Four of the April 1St, 1992 minutes. Based on the above, Mr. Perrotta
knew or should have known, either directly or through his representatives, of the restrictions and
construction details on the as built and approved filed plans, as well as the violations committed
by the prior owner. It is incumbent upon a buyer to do his due diligence on a property prior to
purchase. It is important that the Planning Board approach this application under the premise
that the condition of the property at the outset of the application process, be that as
demonstrated in the October 8, 2011 Google maps shot, not in its current state. So to do
anything less allows the owners, a property owner to ignore restrictions placed on a property by
the Planning Board, harms neighboring properties, and ultimately the lake. The issues raised.
MR. TRAVER-Excuse me, sir, can you conclude your remarks? You've gone well beyond the
public hearing three minutes per speaker, if you can just take another minute or so and wrap up
your comments.
MR. COLLINS-Yes, okay. Well, how do we remedy this? More robust vegetation plan, use
best practices, the target being what would the property have been able to handle if all those
trees remained in place and you used the stormwater as designed? As a condition, the
Planning Board should prohibit any further subdivision of the property. The property has been
severely damaged by the acts of the prior owner. It will be a great number of years before it
recovers. The concerns of the Planning Board and the public as enumerated have become a
reality. Secondly very quickly the driveway. It's my understanding Mr. Perrotta is only
showing developing the property to his property line, and that we're taking the assumption that
there's an existing driveway in place and you don't have to do anything. There is no existing
driveway. It was caused by all the logging trucks. There's depressions in the land. It should
follow the plan as originally approved with the construction detail and stormwater management
detail, and lastly, there should be a performance bond here. This is a very sensitive piece of
property that's been damaged greatly. If the property isn't constructed in accordance to
approved plans, or it's stopped mid-construction can have severe consequences to those
neighbors around it, and you say well, what's the chance that's going to happen. Just go to 67
Knox Road and you'll see that exact situation in place now on the fragile piece of land. Our
goal is to protect the lake. Not only the lake, but Mr. Perrotta's right for a dream house and the
adjoining neighbors' right to have their dream house protected and in the mean time until all
these issues are addressed, I request you reject the application. Thank you.
MR. TRAVER-Thank you. Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to address this
application? Yes, sir.
BOB GLANDON
MR. GLANDON-I'm Bob Glandon from 63 Knox Road. Two parts. One is that Chris Navitsky
asked me to read part of his letter. Have you all gotten the letter in hand? Because I do have
printouts of it here.
MR. TRAVER-I believe we were provided comments on the application.
MR. FORD-I've read it.
MR. G LAN DON-You've got them? Okay because we didn't know for sure if you had them.
MR. TRAVER-Sir, I'm going to ask, in view of time, and with the extensive comments of the
prior speaker, if you could make sure you're not repeating what was said. Only new
information if you would.
MR. GLANDON-Okay.
MR. TRAVER-Thank you.
MR. GLANDON-I have underlined parts. So let me see, make sure I don't cover. So the main
issue that Chris was asking about was the stormwater runoff, specifically the bio swale that you
see down slope, and he's requested, suggested that stormwater measure be done closer to the
source instead of kind of the end of the pipe, and what we have here is, I think at an earlier date
someone said it's not going to rain anymore up there than it does anyhow. If you've got a half
inch rain, it's on the same area, but what we've got is the house and the drive, all that now
pitches off. So where that was flat and could soak in, it's going to be shoved downhill and
therefore cause runoff down the hill and I'll point out that 67 Knox Road that was mentioned has
installed underground infiltration tanks and Assembly Point Road back toward the new house
going up, in the middle, not even in the water but on a flat area, has put in infiltration tanks on a
flat piece of ground in the middle not on the lake, so it's something that the Board has required
before and I would suggest that, along the lines of what Chris has brought up, is that that be
done here where the downspouts go into underground tanks. Shove that water in up at the top
of the hill. Don't let it run on down the hill to the swale. The other point he had is on this
infiltration down on the steep slope, that the size of the grass swale, once that gets loaded, it's
not going to give it necessarily a chance to soak in, but it'll soak through, and so you'll be back
down along the surface down below it and running into the wetlands. So those were the major
stormwater, oh, and that driveway has not been addressed, and on the Knox Road side that
access way pitches down and currently it's grass and some gravel. So we don't get much
runoff, and if you look there you'll see some gravel out but not too much, but everything
downstream of that is pine duff. I mean, that whole area is under pine trees, and so we get
runoff on the road to start with, and if his drive pitches down, as it will because it has to at the
end, we'll see it on Knox Road. So I suggest that you look at the driveway the whole way
through, and as the original subdivision development called for, was underground infiltration
tanks on either side of the driveway, several points along the drive. So if you would look at
that, I think it's necessary not just desirable, and I would suggest on top of that that we look at
pervious pavement over this entire part. It's going to be paved. There's no reason to let that
water runoff. You see the ditches along the side of the driveway. That's to let the water off,
not just head it on down the hill to a place that we know we have flooding in the neighbors'
backyards, and when those get flooded we get septic water in there. So now we're getting
water into the lake that could, because the septic fields in the backs of those houses are getting
flooded and they just can't help it, and add unnecessary nutrients that are getting into the lake.
The final point from Chris' letter is that he's recommended a time pressure dosing of the
absorption field. That's a pump in and that spreads it out throughout the entire fields so you get
better absorption. Whether that's in these plans, it wasn't evident. So that's all I have. Thank
you.
MR. TRAVER-Thank you very much. Is there anyone else that would like to? Yes, ma'am.
You heard my request of the prior speaker. So I trust that you also will not repeat information
that's already been stated.
CAROL COLLINS
DR. COLLINS-My name is Dr. Carol Collins, lifelong resident of Knox Road, lake scientist. This
is an important application that tests the vision and planning of the Town as well as the strength
of the Codes and the Comprehensive Management Plan. Allowing ridgeline development
makes the Comprehensive Plan meaningless, and failing to mitigate this type of development
weakens the Town Code. Development can occur but needs to be responsible but without
impacts to the resources of the community. Below is a list of the needed improvements based
on the Town's Comprehensive land management plan, the Sunset Hill Farm development plans
and the stormwater management plan. Just quickly the stormwater management plan which
you know that we're using today is very much outdated. Hasn't been revised in 15, 20 years.
I'm not sure of the exact time, but Chazen is looking at that finally now, and we will be updating
it. So what we're dealing with now are those standards that we're abiding by are far outdated
and will not do anything to not even protect the lake but to do anything for water quality.
Screening using mature trees to mitigate building on a ridgeline, we need to place mature trees
on the back of the house, on the front of the house and not just on the sides of the house. We
need to reduce the well-known off site impacts by implementing best management practices. If
you look at the pictures we have from Google earth, the pre-development conditions should be
forested. Right now when you calculate the curve number for the stormwater management
plan, you're using a number for grass and the curbed number should be lake forest, and that will
change how much will be infiltrated at peak flow values. It's really important. You see now that
this area was clear cut for five acres. That five acres, I brought it to the attention of the Town
at that time that it was being clear cut and nothing was actually done about it, but it was also in
violation. You need a permit to clear that five acre zone.
MR. TRAVER-Excuse me, ma'am. You said you brought it to the attention of the Town at the
time that this was being clear cut. Did you provide that in any kind of written?
DR. COLLINS-1 don't think I did. I think I called Craig. I'm pretty sure.
MR. TRAVER-So there's no record of your interaction with the Town at that point?
DR. COLLINS-1 probably have extemporaneous notes. I have very detailed daily recordings of
all my encounters. I've been working on lake issues since 1976. 1 did all the computer models
for the lake, for National Science Foundation. So I have details.
MR. TRAVER-And in your preparation for your comments this evening, do you have any notes
with you that talk about perhaps the dates that you might have contacted the Town?
DR. COLLINS-No, I don't.
MR. TRAVER-All right. Thank you.
DR. COLLINS-1 would actually, I did see something, okay, so you talked about the 10 to 15 feet
around all the structures for clear cutting. We talked about how the stormwater management
plan needs to be recalculated for a forested condition. I want to talk more about the grassy
swales. I talked at length with people about that, a grassy swale versus a bio swale. Grassy
swales are outdated. We like bio swales where you have trees in the infiltration zones and
native trees and things that are appropriate for those swales, and I too spoke about putting in
proper trees for those bio swales which would greatly improve it. Now those bio swales are
really critical. I know you guys have all been to planning training meetings and you know
you've heard the word disconnect. By putting that storm, that swale, that grassy swale on I
think it's like an 18% grade, is not advisable, and having it as one continuous thing is, goes
against any principles of how we now look at hydrology and where we want to collect and treat
stormwater. Those should be put to the side over here, the side over here, and down slope as
well. One mature tree does the same thing as 6,000 little woody plants and whatever. So
remember trees is key. I mean, in some places they're just going to mature trees rather than
some raingarden. The existing driveway. This is part of a major stormwater plan. Existing
surfaces, impervious surfaces, have to be calculated in the stormwater plan. This is ignored I
this model, and I believe that the Town Engineer is unaware of this and if they gave an approval
they were not aware of this, and they need to be aware that that existing impervious surface has
to be put into the stormwater calculations. I believe that we should have no further subdivision
of this, what is termed a gross build out. Gross build out is anywhere where you build on steep
slopes and areas that have been clear cut on it, where infiltration is concentrated on the crest of
the land, all these kinds of things, forested land has been chopped down. So I believe that that
needs to be a condition of approval, and I do believe that a performance bond is going to rear its
head very quickly. We know the places down below have already had damage to their septic
systems, and this'll continue. I did not see that the Town Engineer approved the septic system.
I see that the Town Engineer looked at the incomplete stormwater plan, but it did not seem to
improve the septic which apparently also has fill on it, and if that top layer of organic matter is so
important, why put fill on top of it? I don't really get that. The clear cutting issue was brought
up actually by the agent here, documented in the Planning Board minutes in '92 where they
actually referenced the clear cutting of Kruger's and where they did it prior to the sale and said
this can't happen here. Clearly happened here. This is the most important precedent going
forward for the Town of Queensbury.
MR. TRAVER-We've had that comment from prior speakers.
DR. COLLINS-Sorry. That's it.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Thank you. Yes, ma'am.
LISA ADAMSON
MS. ADAMSON-1 just want to ask you, Mr. Traver, did Craig Brown forward?
MR. TRAVER-If you don't mind, have a seat at the table and state your name for the record,
please. We do record the meetings and they're transcribed. So that would be part of the
record. Thank you.
MS. ADAMSON-Lisa Adamson, Lake Parkway, Assembly Point. I have three sets of pictures,
unless Craig forwarded them to you. I took them about six weeks ago, of what's happening on
Assembly Point Road and this is relevant to this particular talk tonight because they show very
much what's happening to the properties.
MR. TRAVER-Are those photographs of this property?
MS. ADAMSON-No, it's photographs of the properties directly below Mr. Perrotta.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Laura, do you know if those have been submitted for the record?
MRS. MOORE-They have, if they are dated from Thursday, April 6th. It's in the file.
MS. ADAMSON-That sounds approximately right, yes.
MRS. MOORE-They are in the file.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So we do have it.
MS. ADAMSON-Okay, and I wanted you to be able to see it. I'll just talk briefly. The first one
is the property just north of Sunset, okay, sorry I didn't make copies for everyone.
MR. HUNSINGER-We can pass it along.
MS. ADAMSON-Great. Just showing how the properties along Assembly Point Road, and I
walk it just about every day, are not infiltrating. They're not able to handle the water that's
falling on their property and coming down from the ridgeline. So this one that I'm passing
around shows a raingarden that was put in to mitigate the lakeside area, and it's just totally full,
and.
MR. TRAVER-Understood. With respect, we're not reviewing these properties before us
tonight. So I don't have independent recollection nor do I have any documentation as to how
the stormwater was managed on those properties. We do have information about how
stormwater is being proposed on this application that we have before us. So we have a bit of
an issue with relevancy. I mean, I understand your concern about stormwater, and that's been
clear from the other speakers as well. So we're well aware of where it's at, and believe me that
has been a concern of ours as well, but to point, with respect, to show us a nearby property that
has stormwater issues that perhaps they were not.
MS. ADAMSON-The black and white that you have there is directly below Mr. Perrotta's
property.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MS. ADAMSON-1 just wanted you to have a visual of what can be seen in almost every rain
event, plus at the narrow point of Assembly Point from Charlie Crew's property up north of Knox
Road. We have practically unique level, and I have been taking pictures of it many times a
season and for many years and it's just, what I'm trying to say is that the land is not, the
properties are not infiltrating. So please err on the side of best management practices rather
than just the standard.
MR. TRAVER-Certainly. That is certainly our goal.
MS. ADAMSON-Okay, and I did want to mention that, and I have been doing some water
testing for a variety of reasons, and I happened to take a water test off of 129 Assembly Point
Road and I did get an E-coli reading. I also have gotten it in other places around the Point, but
just as a point of information. So I guess I'm just going to.
MR. TRAVER-Did you share that information with anyone?
MS. ADAMSON-1 have not, except for.
MR. TRAVER-1 know for people, just because I'm interested in such things, I know that the
Darren Freshwater Institute would be interested in that. The Lake George Association would
be interested in that. There are a number of studies going on with regards to algae blooms and
other impacts on the lake. So if you have valid data on the lake, even though it may not be
relevant to this application, that is important information to share with.
MS. ADAMSON-Yes, thank you, and in the past I have talked to Larry Eichler and Chris
Navitsky. This just this year that I happened to take a bottle, swipe it carefully, take it to Joe
Biss and I did get an E-coli reading just because I was doing some other testing for a variety of
reasons, but I'm happy to share it and people are aware that a number of us have been doing it.
MR. TRAVER-That would be important.
MS. ADAMSON-And lastly I just wanted to end with a question. Do you all feel that if you were
to pass this site plan tonight that you can guarantee that it's not going to impact the properties
below and therefore the road? Because the road is a wreck. I mean, after every rain event
i,
you just watch it fly right into the water, and this is our drinking water and we see algae along
the edge there.
MR. TRAVER-Well, I can speak for, and if you really want an elaborate explanation of the
application process and the review that various applications, not only this one but others,
undergo, I would suggest calling the Planning Office and discussing it with Laura or one of her
staff, but I would say that, just in very general terms, we do try to review projects and there are
many aspects of projects that are somewhat subjective, but we have a Planning Board that's
quite experienced and somewhat a variety of expertise, including now an engineer, as an
alternate. So where we are uncertain about, for example stormwater, we will request, and in
fact the Town has retained the services of a professional engineer to independently do analysis
of what applications are proposing to do, as opposed to what they say they will do, as opposed
to what the numbers actually show they'll do, and that does include analysis based on required
testing of soils and that type of thing, and there are very strict regulations for stormwater,
particularly around the lake. So we, not having expertise equal to our Town Engineer, we do
rely quite heavily on those calculations and scientific analysis of each application as it relates to
stormwater, septic and so on. I mean, we're not, we do have to rely on other consultants and
expertise, and on occasion we will ask for additional information that's not normally available if
it's called for on a particular application, but in this case issues of septic and stormwater have
been extensively analyzed.
MS. ADAMSON-Because this piece of property is not just an isolated entity that you can
analyze. You look all around it, and these picture and many other people's pictures will show
you that there's a huge problem.
MR. TRAVER-And many of the regulations that have impacts on issues like stormwater and
septic and so on are designed to eliminate impacts on surrounding areas. Now over the years
the technology, the science has gotten better and better. So we know there are, there's
evidence, you've collected some of it from your sample that you said contained E-coli. We
know that there are septic systems that need to be upgraded around the lake, and one of the
things that we constantly are trying to be vigilante with applications that come before us for
revitalization of lakeside properties and so on are things like improving stormwater and septic
and so on and I think that there's been quite a bit of progress on that, but a lot of work remains
to be done certainly,
MS. ADAMSON-Yes, because Assembly Point Road, to me, looks the same as it has for the
past 11 years. It doesn't look like it's, it looks like it's getting worse and not better, and come up
some time after even a mild rain and you'll see it just all going right into the lake.
MR. TRAVER-Stormwater is a critical issue as is, you know, even salting the roads in the
wintertime. It's an ongoing issue that we're very concerned about and very aware of, but we
appreciate your attention and your comments. Thank you.
MS. ADAMSON-Thank you.
MR. TRAVER-Is there anyone else in the audience that wanted to address the Planning Board
on this application? I'm not seeing any. All right. Can the applicant come back to the table?
MR. BORGOS-Mr. Chairman, if I may address some of the comments that we heard from the
public.
MR. TRAVER-Please.
MR. BORGOS-In a general sense, I wanted to, on behalf of the applicant, acknowledge as you
did, the importance of public comment and the opinions that we get, the observations. Those
are all very important to our overall process, and, yes, it does require a systemic review to deal
with some of these long-term problems. You can't do it on an isolated, case by case basis, and
as experienced Planning Board members, I know you understand that, but you do need to have
that input. So it does get filtered through Staff to long term planning for the Town, but with
regards to some of the specifics we've heard tonight, I think you'll agree that part of that process
of absorbing these comments is that it results in findings of fact, conclusions, approvals, and in
this case we've heard about the prior approval for the Sunset Hill Farm subdivision. I trust that
the Planning Board, in the early 90's, did their due diligence and gave an approval with
conditions and criteria that was as diligent as you would do today. So we look at those
approvals, and those are our touchstones. Those are what guide us today, in conjunction with
current evaluations, and in this case the applicant has retained a licensed professional engineer
from the State of New York who, despite the skepticism of some of the commenters, still
maintains his license and is beyond reproach as far as I'm understanding. The Town Engineer
has signed off on this as we've provided. Town Staff has reviewed it. The last meeting we
talked about the building inspector David Hatin who signed off on the adequate wastewater
system. All these things that come from the public comment are vetted through the Town Staff
and in this case in this particular application it's my understanding that the applicant has
checked all the boxes and everything has been ratified as presented. With regards to the
photographs that were presented to you, Google Earth is great. It's a wonderful resource. I do
want to point out that the dates of the photograph are very material. The tropical storm Irene
that came through in late August or early September, just before the deciduous trees were
dropping their leaves, and I think the photo before you might be an October date. So there may
still be some vegetation on the branches.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, the one it says imagery date. Again, this is from Google Earth, it says
imagery date 10/8/2011.
MR. BORGOS-Yes, so early October 2011, and then the next photo was a May date, an early
May date, before any deciduous leaf out of the trees. So we've got different timeframes during
the season. There are also different times of the day. So you've got different shadow effects
and what not. Ii began to question that, and I thought, wow, it would be great if we had some
contemporaneous accounting of what happened, and it was interesting to hear Mrs. Collins with
her comments today indicating that she contacted the Town, because that jives very well with
what I found out when I checked with the Town. I spoke twice with Code Enforcement Officer
Bruce Frank who many of you know has been employee of the Town for many years. He
checked his files and notes and reported to me as follows. That Craig Brown received a
complaint that was phoned in on November 8, 2011, and they didn't have any contemporaneous
record of who that was. They didn't go back to dig out, see if they had a note to that effect, but
it could very well have been Mrs. Collins complaint that she referred to. That was November 8th
that the loggers performing the salvage harvest were allegedly removing more than the
damaged and downed trees. So Bruce related to me that he and Craig met with the loggers, a
father and son team, and that they discussed the extent of the clearing plan that was part of the
Site Plan that was approved in the early 90's and discussed it and saying, well, it doesn't really
fit. If you're removing the damaged trees, the topped trees, the Ieaners and the down trees, it's
going to be far beyond the clearing that would be desirable. So everyone agreed that they
would only remove those trees that had been topped, damaged, Ieaners or downed trees, and
that was the extent of what the salvage operation was to be. Bruce went on to tell me, in his
words, that he was personally on site at least if not more than a couple dozen times throughout
the salvage harvest. That's at least 24 times and he thinks it was more than that. He hasn't
made a full search of his log notes, but I didn't ask him to. I think that's more than sufficient to
tell me that the Town official in charge of handling complaints had reviewed the situation,
continued to monitor it and he said that, as of March 20, 2012, the last of the log piles and
equipment were observed removed from the site. So it was just a four and a half month
operation for the salvage.
MR. TRAVER-So it was four and a half months and he was there visiting the site 24 times.
MR. BORGOS-At least. So my personal opinion of that is that that's a rather intensive
monitoring of the operation, and that he did not actually bring a traditional enforcement action he
said because it was concluded appropriately per the Town's review. I don't know of any better
way to evaluate what happened then, other than to say it was not a clear cutting operation, that
it's the further thing from the truth because it was done under the watchful eyes of the Town
Code Enforcement Officer. So with that understanding, I think it definitely colors the comments
that we heard that this was a clear cut. It was not. This was an act of God. The photos may
be depicting a condition where the trees that were Ieaners were still green but had to be
removed for safety reasons and because over time they may have failed. It was unfortunate
that the storm hit that area of the ridge the hardest, but it was an act of God. It wasn't an act of
the prior owner of the property. So as much as it's easy to pick on some prior owner who's no
longer there, the commenters are asking that you impugn the integrity of the new owner or at
least give him the baggage of the cleanup, but it wasn't an intentional act, and I also asked
Bruce if there was any recollection in his career here that the Town owner ever required a
property owner to re-vegetate to an original pre-storm condition a piece of property that had
been storm damaged. Certainly there have been cases where developers have made
desirable cuts for view shed improvements where they have been required to re-vegetate
This was not. This was a salvage operation that had to be done for the long-term health of that
forest, and as Dennis MacElroy has confirmed to you with Liebrum's approval, the re-vegetation
plan, the appropriate location of the native species with sufficient room to grow will result in the
maximum sustainable growth of those trees without losing them. We want them to be
successful. We want them to grow. So all the criteria you can possibly do I think meets the
best management, the best practices standard that everybody would like to see adhered to. So
we believe that all of these things have been met. The modifications that were requested and
we talked about with the stormwater controls, I've asked Dennis to put a number on it and he is
reluctant to do so, but my opinion is it's way beyond 100% of the requirement. It could be
approaching 150%, but engineers are maybe not so keen on putting a precise number on it, but
as an attorney I'm going to tell you that I think that is above and beyond. That would be the
language I would use, and again that's consistent with best management practices. So the
applicant is very much in concert with those who are concerned about the lake water quality, the
view sheds and the rehabilitation of the site. It benefits his enjoyment of the property to the
same extent he wants to see these things addressed, he's going to play his part. With regards
to the performance bond, I was disappointed to hear of that request because again it is, I think
it's an unfair attack or blemish upon the integrity of the applicant. He is seeking to get a
building permit upon receiving approvals and he will execute upon that. There is no indication
of past actions that have been detrimental. He's done everything asked and then some. He
wants to see his project built correctly. There is I think an intent here to have a private right of
action which would be held by Mrs. Collins as the owner of the property over which this
driveway will be built to receive a benefit or the Town monitoring and trying to enforce this
performance bond. I think that's above and beyond what would be necessarily required for a
single lot development like this. This is not a commercial parcel. I don't think that's warranted
at all, and I think it places a very unfair burden upon the Town to step into that roll of private
enforcer. It's also seemingly inconsistent with the portrayal of the current site conditions.
We've heard a lot of doom and gloom about current conditions not being satisfactory, yet if
these improvements are made and we proceed with a plan, that construction should ameliorate
the conditions and make things better, not worse. So the more work that is done, the better the
situation should be. So I don't think that a bond is required. With that I'll let Dennis speak to
some of the engineering details.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, one question I wanted to pass along that came from the public comment
was the concern with regard to the stormwater that when the analysis was done or the review of
your calculations was done, that perhaps the Town Engineer did not have information about all
of the, there was talk about the driveway or some existing surfaces or some runoff that may not
have been included in your calculations. If you could address that I'd appreciate it.
MR. MAC ELROY-Certainly. Let me go to Chris Navitsky's letter, which has the specific
comments that were made, and let me start with the second page at the top, the stormwater
management ordinance talks about increase in pollution. His point is talking about the site has
been changed, due to the storm and subsequent clearing and clean up. That we should
evaluate it based on what that condition was 10 years ago, forested. So we got this letter at
3:30 this afternoon. So there wasn't a lot of time, but I asked one of our engineers to take a
look at that situation, and I don't want to get too much into the weeds with you because it can be
confusing, but stormwater management report is an evaluation of pre-development conditions
and post-development conditions, okay. So you have a baseline. Now if, when we evaluated
it as it is, the conditions are maybe not as productive or not as good at infiltration and
stormwater management as it was when all that tree growth was there. Okay. So that creates
a higher baseline, and then the pre-development is up a little ways, or post-development,
excuse me, that takes into consideration the impervious areas. So now if we went back and
took a look at the pre-development conditions 10 years ago before the damage, that brings the
baseline down, therefore that differential is greater. So you have to provide more stormwater
management. Okay. So quickly done.
MR. TRAVER-But I mean that wouldn't be a valid, I mean, you wouldn't do the stormwater
analysis on some hypothetical non-existent condition. I mean, that would never be.
MR. MAC ELROY-Well, I'm just trying to address a comment that Chris made.
MR. TRAVER-1 understand.
MR. MAC ELROY-Because I think I have a good answer to that that might make you feel more
comfortable. Stormwater management report, stormwater control report. This is what was
submitted to the Town on to Chazen. Chazen does their review. They felt it was adequate.
That it satisfied their conditions. Sorry to use the word adequate, but it was compliant. Well in
fact and again, I don't want to confuse you with numbers, but the pre-development runoff
volume standard that you would comply with was .124 in our evaluation. I'm going to lose you
with numbers. Basically we went back and looked at it if we made the characterization of the
land and the associated curb numbers as part of the calculation as if it was wooded, good
condition. Not fair, not poor, but good. We used the most conservative condition. So that
drives that base down. Post-development stays the same, and in fact we use the same
damaged condition in the post-development calculations. So that creates the greatest
differential. What does it turn out? That we're compliant with the volume and the rates,
requirements, as per the regulations in that condition.
MR. TRAVER-So that's interesting, because one of the concerns was that a prior owner at
some point had gone in, well beyond storm damage, and did some clear cutting. So it sounds
like what you did, hypothetically for this study, was to do the analysis as if you had gone in and,
in other words fully forested, and for this application you had gone in and cut down all these
trees, not removed them because of the damage, but had intentionally removed them without
any need to and then did the analysis and the numbers still worked.
MR. MAC ELROY-Correct. We did that this afternoon. The report.
MR. TRAVER-That seems odd, but again I suppose it's not relevant.
MR. MAC ELROY-Well, it's relevant in that what you can take away from that is what we've
provided is way over-designed.
MR. TRAVER-It's adequate. Yes, I understand.
MR. BORGOS-1 still prefer above and beyond, but that's just the language.
MR. TRAVER-Well, and again, you know, and you said yourself you're going to lose us with the
numbers, and we do have, we are accumulating a scary level of experience in the stormwater
various issues but we do, regardless of that, we do have to rely on the engineer. So really the
most relevant thing that you're provided us was the signoff letter, which is one of the things that
we needed to see from the engineer, because, you know, numbers being numbers, really what
matters to us is the engineer who's the one who's ultimately responsible for the environmental
impacts and saying that this system will work.
MR. DEEB-Dennis, I have a question if I may. Your stormwater preparation. Is that going to,
and somebody used the word guarantee. We can never use the word guarantee.
MR. MAC ELROY-There's so many variables.
MR. DEEB-There's just too many to say we could guarantee.
MR. TRAVER-No, we could say compliant.
MR. DEEB-Yes. I understand that's what we're saying, but we cannot say we guarantee, and I
think that would be no wise to do something of that nature.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, I mean, I don't think we can offer that. Part of the issue is that the science,
if I can call it that, with a number of these issues with regards to septic and the lake and
stormwater and everything is an ever, thank goodness, evolving and improving science. So
what we would do in 1991 would be very, very different, perhaps unacceptable, to what we
would do today.
MR. DEEB-That's my point, is that the stormwater issues on this property should be properly
taken care of. You're saying that with your planning, that the stormwater will stay within the
property.
MR. MAC ELROY-The design of the stormwater device, again, stormwater management is fairly
simple. Capture that runoff from the impervious areas, get it into the ground, but it doesn't
change the specified rate or volume as per the regulations, and that's what we've done and then
some, above and beyond with that area and that volume. The shape of it, the look of it,
whatever, is not satisfactory to Chris, but that's.
MR. DEEB-Well, I understand. What I'm saying is what are the chances of stormwater runoff to
the neighbor's property after you put the new stormwater management in, which is not there
now?
MR. TRAVER-Well, your calculations are based on, what, a 50 year storm?
MR. MAC ELROY-Well, the regulations are for a 10 year rate and a 25 year flow
MR. T RAVE R-Twe nty-five year flow.
MR. MAC ELROY-So we're not exceeding pre-existing conditions.
I....j
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So hypothetically if we had a 100 year storm or something, you could
have stormwater leaving the site, but it would be leaving essentially every site.
MR. MAC ELROY-Correct.
MR. TRAVER-1 mean, once we get to that stage.
MR. MAC ELROY-Correct.
MR. DEEB-Do you understand what I'm driving at here? So if there's stormwater that is
seeping through on the neighbor's properties.
MR. MAC ELROY-I'll say it again. No new house makes it rain any more than it already does.
MR. DEEB-I understand. What I'm saying, though, is.
MR. MAC ELROY-It's a matter of capturing and controlling, managing that stormwater.
MR. DEEB-Then hopefully with the improvement in stormwater preparation, there'll be less
stormwater running onto neighbor's properties, and if the neighbors still have a problem with
stormwater then it will be up to them to take care of whatever else that needs to be taken care
of.
MR. MAC ELROY-Right, and there's a multitude of things that are contributing to that condition
in the backyards. Those owners themselves having made improvements on their properties.
If you look at any dated USGS back through the lay of the land, you're flowing from north to
south along the backs of those properties, at the toe of the hill, and what happened at some
point? Well, something that was part of this original subdivision, like the infamous McCall
house was placed. That was wetlands. All that, if you look at Map 23 of 29 of the Warren
County Wetlands mapping, there's wetlands back through that area. That's changed. All
those different owners along the way, they may have changed the conditions in the backyards
and it doesn't get the flow the way it once did, out, south and out at the neck of Assembly Point.
We who've been around there, remember when it used to be there. Well, that's changed, and
unfortunately that horse is out of the barn, but this development of this project didn't cause that.
Runoff from that slope is part of that whole cycle of runoff. It gets captured, it becomes part of
the groundwater and it flows generally in that southern direction. You've got houses along
there, little retaining walls. Some of that weeping that is there on Assembly Point Road in the
areas that are talked about you can see it. There's a retaining wall so there's weep holes
through the retaining wall. So that allows that water to sort of concentrate and come out.
Maybe in the wintertime there's some trees up. So there's, again, a multitude of things that
contribute to that stormwater condition. The design of the stormwater system is intended to
mitigate that.
MR. DEEB-Well, there was one comment made with the standards that were used, we have to
use the standards we have, but they may be outdated, but that's what we have to go by. If they
have to be changed they have to be changed, and that has to come in the future, but
unfortunately we have to use what we have.
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes, and what's being provided is beyond.
MR. DEEB-And that was the one thing I was concerned about, that you have done more, you're
creating more of a mitigating situation, you're helping it, and I think that's important, if it's going
to improve the situation and not deteriorate it.
MR. MAC ELROY-Correct.
MR. DEEB-I'm done.
MR. MAC ELROY-I'm going to move on to the issue about the driveway. There's, when this
subdivision was approved in '92 originally, typical of a subdivision approval, there's not a
detailed site plan in a subdivision approval. You show a house location. You show certain
soils information so that you know you can put a septic system on it. It has the special
relationships the setbacks and what not. It's not a detailed design plan, but what is a little
different in this particular case that it's all in these little driveways that went up to serve the lots,
including this one for Lots Six and Seven, which were actually four lots at the time. There was
a stormwater management plan for those driveway sections. So that's in the records. That's
what we're relying on for what would be built. There's a design, an approved design for that
stormwater management. Now right wrong or otherwise, there are at least two other driveways
1
that were built to support houses that are there. They never did it. The Town for some reason
didn't catch up with that or whatever. So those other two driveways don't have any stormwater
management as per the plan back in '92. This one I feel quite confident in. We have a
stormwater management plan implemented for that driveway. So that's in place. We didn't
need to address that as part of this, these computations in development of this Lot Six, and I
don't, I don't know whether Chazen is totally aware of that or not, but it's not really pertinent.
MR. TRAVER-What about the comment about no further subdivision?
MR. MAC ELROY-1 wasn't quite sure what that means, whether this lot shouldn't be developed
or no further subdivision of this lot?
MR. TRAVER-That there should be no further subdivision of the lot, of the application property.
MR. MAC ELROY-Well, interesting that you said that. I was reminded of that when I was
reviewing files for the '92. Quick history. There were originally 10 lots. That triggered Health
Department jurisdiction. Paul Knox was the developer, landowner. He wanted to develop the,
subdivide his property so he could sell lots. He got an approval from the Town in June of 1992,
but those are conditioned, and a subdivision often is, on getting the other approvals you need,
Health Department for instance. He didn't have his Health Department approvals yet. In 1993,
June, he got an approval from the Town to reduce those 10 lots to 7 so that he avoided Health
Department jurisdiction. Because, this is my opinion, he was trying to avoid that jurisdiction
because he was having issues with the Health Department. They wanted him to do more test
wells and what not. So there's a little bit of a history in there, but that 10 lot subdivision became
7. So couldn't somebody come along and want to subdivide Lot 6 or Lot 7. At one time there
were four lots that were there, now two. I think it was '98 1 saw correspondence where Paul
tried to re-subdivide some of the property to get another lot out of it, and that was not permitted.
There was some referral back to the approvals to say that. So certain, and I don't know of any
indication that this owner or any of the others are poised to re-subdivide or subdivide what they
have into something more.
MR. TRAVER-So a condition of no further subdivision wouldn't be a problem?
MR. MAC ELROY-1 think it's already in place, actually. So, yes, I can sort of speak for.
MR. TRAVER-Well, I mention that because we've had situations where lots have applied, a lot
at one particular point in time has requested to be subdivided and been denied, and then later
on in the future they've requested that same piece of property to be subdivided and it's
approved. If you put a condition on the property of no further subdivision then that ends it and it
would not be.
MR. BORGOS-The applicant will stipulate to that condition.
MR. TRAVER-Any other questions of the applicant by the Planning Board?
MR. MAC ELROY-Can I just address a further item?
MR. TRAVER-Yes, sure.
MR. MAC ELROY-Because it's been brought up. This is the thing that troubles me the most
out of this whole process and the comments that have been made is about this fill system for
the wastewater. Chris made this comment back at an earlier, at the Zoning meeting. He was
offering his interpretation of a definition.
MR. TRAVER-He was questioning whether or not it actually constituted a fill system.
MR. MAC ELROY-Right. He was interpreting some language that he was reading and he
repeated it I think at the last meeting, and I'm sorry he's not here tonight.
MR. HUNSINGER-We talked about that quite a bit at the other meeting.
MR. MAC ELROY-Indulge me for a second.
MR. HUNSINGER-I'm just saying, so that we have a background. That's all.
MR. MAC ELROY-Three days after that meeting in late March we went to the Septic Summit, a
nice conference that Chris had organized and had speakers coming in and what not. So there
were a bunch of engineer types there. Because I was a little ticked off at the way that was
I .I
represented at the other meeting, I made up a, this is our detail that's on the plan. You can't
see it but it's the wastewater sectional view of what we were representing.
MR. TRAVER-For this application.
MR. MAC ELROY-For this application. This is what Chris looked at and said, oh that's a fill
system.
MR. TRAVER-At the Summit?
MR. MAC ELROY-He said it in front of this Board and he said it in front of the Zoning Board,
and for the express purposes that if it was a fill system it couldn't be built on that slope.
MR. TRAVER-Right.
MR. MAC ELROY-It was a gotcha thing as far as I'm concerned. That system that was
designed is, you know, 95% of people around the lake would love to have had a system in those
conditions, including our three neighbors that have commented against it. I just happen to have
a little bit of knowledge of those systems, either through actually designing them or investigating
them. So that system that was originally proposed was a very good system, perfectly legal by
the definitions of the Town of Queensbury. So I went to the conference, you know, I've been
doing this for only 40 years so maybe I wasn't right. Maybe I had forgotten something.
Maybe, you know, I was interpreting something wrong myself. So I took that detail and I took
out any reference to shallow absorption system and made it a little questionnaire and I gave it to
10 different engineers that were at that conference, was it a fill system, was it a shallow
absorption system, was it a conventional system or I threw in was it a raingarden. To see if
they were paying attention. Okay.
MR. TRAVER-Did anybody answer it was a raingarden?
MR. MAC ELROY-No. Without exception, all 10, and they were either design engineers like
myself or regulators. All 10, shallow absorption system. So because Chris had said that and
others latched onto that, it was wrong. That's why I was so adamant earlier. That's, he was
wrong in that interpretation and he's made that information seem like that system was
improperly designed and it wasn't suitable for that location. Well, we've moved it, but you know
what, it's still a shallow absorption system. Because as I said at a previous meeting, the
reason why I raise it up and keep it just into the soil and it's not on top of the organics and not
covering the organics. You remove the organic layer. You want to get to the better soils. So
that absorption system is just sitting into the native soils, and that material over it is cover
material. It's not fill. You're not filling on top of the native material to have the system below it.
Again, it was his interpretation to try to make a point of it wasn't, well, again, that was wrong.
So I'm sorry he's not here for me to tell him that face to face. That troubled me. The last
comment he's talking about time dosing of the absorption field to increase treatment. Probably
easily nine out of ten, if not more systems that I design that involve pumps, pump stations, I use
time dosing. It's the current technology. It's the current way that I would provide any pump
system. So while it's not necessarily clear on this site plan, I would say that this site plan is not
the final design for an application for a waste septic disposal system. It doesn't have all the
details or specifications, but I can assure you that that pump system will be a time dosed system
that will, the benefit of that is it's not demand driven it's time driven and it uses up 24 hours of
the day. It spreads that flow out and that dispersal to the field over a 24 hour period, not just a
lot every morning and a lot late afternoon or early evening when people use it more. So those
are a couple of things I wanted just to clear up. So I'm glad to talk about any other comments.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Anything else? Questions, comments from members of the Planning
Board?
MR. HUNSINGER-I just have to comment on these photos. I mean, they're pretty telling, but
one of the other things that's really telling about it is all the neighbor properties that have lost
vegetation as well.
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes, there were a number of areas right adjacent to my family driveway. In
fact the property that's owned by George Hearst adjacent to that infamous Kitchen house, that
whole area was, lost a great number of trees and the cleanup I suspect had similar results.
There was a great deal of tree loss in there. So it hit in certain areas, and why it hit six as much
as it did and maybe not as much on seven westerly facing, there's certainly a bunch of trees
down there but those were left and that remained natural. Six was hit hard and there was a
cleanup, but that's the way the land was when Mr. Perrotta bought it and was going through the
steps and making, I think, sincere efforts to try to re-vegetate and make this situation better than
exists.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, I have, in my collection on this application, I have at least three different site
plans. This is a SEQR Type 11. So no further SEQR review is required. We do have, we
know we have one condition of no further subdivision. You've already got that.
MR. MAC ELROY-The plans of'93, is that what you said? You said '92 but you should say 93
because that's when they changed it from 10 to 7.
MR. TRAVER-All right.
MR. MAGOWAN-Dennis, it was brought up of maybe doing a little bit more stormwater
collection, especially for the gutters. How much harder would it be to grab some of the water
coming off the gutters?
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes, I didn't comment on that comment that Bob Glandon had made. The
use of drywells certainly are a typical or valid device in certain conditions. A drywell is a vertical
structure. Therefore it takes I think it's a three foot separation from the bottom of it to a barrier
condition like groundwater or impervious soils. So that's why, one of the reasons, you know,
this is kept shallow, kept up near the surface where that infiltration can take place. With the
drywell work in certain areas there, a shallow drywell, maybe it's only a four foot section, but
now you've got three feet so you're really down seven feet. Whereas we're in a shallow grass
swale which basically is a little below grade, a foot below grade, and then you've got two feet of
separation so you're only three feet down.
MR. TRAVER-Well, I think the question is would it improve, would it make for better stormwater.
MR. MAGOWAN-Well, I guess what we're saying is we're getting the water in the ground closer,
instead of letting it come all the way down to the swale, which, you know, I want to thank you for
moving the septic up there and concentrating just on that swale, for, you know, collection of the
water. I guess my concern is, you know, now seeing the pictures, I really, I like how you spoke.
I always do, but after looking at the pictures, you know, and kind of counting the trees and really
it's, the vegetation, you can see that it has somewhat come back, you know, but boy it's
devastate far beyond just this property here, but I guess my question would be, you know, if we
could get some more of that water in the ground, maybe it would help prevent, you know, the
seepage, you know, down lower for the lower houses.
MR. MAC ELROY-Could there be a shallow dry well that captures some amount of roof area
from a roof leader or downspout.
MR. MAGOWAN-Because it is a large house and a lot of square footage of roof up there.
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes, I mean, effectively it gets the groundwater, or stormwater into the
ground. How do we address that at this point? I mean, do you let us go on our way and say,
okay,just add some gutters and dry wells to the devices?
MR. TRAVER-Well, I mean, my comment on that would be you have an engineering signoff.
So if you were to offer, in response to what Brad is suggesting, some additional stormwater, that
would require another review that would be over and above. Unless you were to take
stormwater somewhere that you've already got it, that's been approved, and move it somehow.
That would be a change in your plan, but if you're doing everything that's already been
approved and you're adding some additional stormwater.
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes, you know, that shows swales that go to the north side of the house and
to the south side of the house, capturing the runoff from the westerly flow, brings it around to the
north. Those are grass swales as well. So there's a certain, without putting, there's a certain
infiltration that may take place there, but maybe there's a location you put a drywell in the
channel line. So some of it is captured there and infiltrates out, goes into the drywell and
infiltrates out, and other goes on its way, in a heavier flow. So something like that. That could
be done.
MR. MAGOWAN-Well, I'm going to go on your 40 years of experience, but I mean, if it wouldn't
be too much more, because I just, you know, all that water just goes downhill, and I know what
you're going to do and what you're proposing is going to help that immensely. If we can give it
just another little kick on the roof area I'd feel obliged.
MR. MAC ELROY-Okay. I guess I just don't know what the mechanism is for that? I mean,
we can certainly do that. I can say that we can do that to an extent, and how do we approve the
plan? The final step here is the final.
MR. TRAVER-You would submit final plans to the Town and if you're proposing something over
and above what has already been reviewed and approved by the engineer, I don't think it would
require any additional review. It would be something that you're offering in addition to what
you've submitted. Would be my feeling. What do you think?
MR. MAC ELROY-Right.
MR. HUNSINGER-1 would agree with that.
MR. DEEB-More is better.
MR. MAC ELROY-Certainly, but I will say that I believe that we have achieved that already.
MR. DEEB-I'm not saying you didn't.
MR. MAC ELROY-But more than more is better.
MR. MAGOWAN-1 believe you have achieved it.
MR. DEEB-I like that, Dennis, more than more.
MR. MAGOWAN-But I just, like I said, when you're not able to say 100% for sure, and I can't
say that all the problems are coming from your property.
MR. TRAVER-The engineer is saying 100% for sure. He's saying that no stormwater is going
to leave the property. Otherwise he wouldn't sign off on it, but you are.
MR. MAC ELROY-The engineer is saying that it's compliant with the regulations.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, right, but what you're talking about is adding some further, like tertiary
treatment I guess in a way.
MR. MAGOWAN-Yes, I'm not looking for one hundred thousand more for stormwater, but
something that, you know, with looking at the pictures and the different roof lines and stuff like
that, you've got a lot of roof there. So say you've got four five inch downspouts on each corner
coming down, what can we do to put them in the ground closer up on the flat area so it gets
down further so as it trickles down it's down below the property?
MR. MAC ELROY-Understood. We can make some effort to improve that or to show it
differently that would add, that would make more of something more better.
MR. TRAVER-What I would suggest on our side to handle that, since we have a signoff, I
wouldn't make that a condition of approval. They've offered to look at it and to do it where it
would be helpful, and I think that, to me, is adequate, as opposed to making something specific
and put it as a condition, but they're offering to do it. I think that they have represented from
our experience of the application I think they'll do it.
MR. MAGOWAN-No, and I think Dennis is a good man. Whatever we can do to make it a little
better.
MR. TRAVER-So that works for you? Any other comments, questions from members of the
Planning Board?
MR. FORD-I've got a comment. I've listened, I've absorbed, and I believe that if all of the
citizens of our community who live on Assembly Point approached the water issues on their
property with the diligence of this team, Assembly Point would be a lot better than it is now, as
far as the water conditions are concerned.
MR. MAC ELROY-Thank you.
MR. DEEB-And in honor of Don Krebs who always commented on that road. We've got to give
a shout out to Don.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, and there are, and have been, actually, plans in the works. A lot of it is
funding and approvals and so on. I have no doubt the stormwater is going to continue to, that
issue is never going to go away, but it's always going to get better and better. Part of that is
our handling this project by project. So thank you for those comments. All right. Again, a
reminder we have, this is a SEQR Type 11. So we're looking at a resolution. So if you want to
read that in.
RESOLUTION APPROVING SP #4-2017 FRANK PERROTTA, JR.
The applicant has submitted an application to the Planning Board for Site Plan approval
pursuant to Article 9 of the Town zoning Ordinance for: Applicant proposes a 3,467 sq. ft.
(footprint), 8,625 sq. ft. (floor area) single family home. Pursuant to Chapter 179-3-040 of the
Zoning Ordinance, major stormwater and project within 50 ft. of 15% slopes shall be subject to
Planning Board review and approval.
Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code-Chapter 179-9-080, the
Planning Board has determined that this proposal satisfies the requirements as stated in the
Zoning Code;
As required by General Municipal Law Section 239-m the site plan application was referred to
the Warren County Planning Department for its recommendation;
The Planning Board opened a public hearing on the Site plan application on 1/24/2017 and
continued the public hearing to 5/16/2017, when it was closed,
The Planning Board has reviewed the application materials submitted by the applicant and all
comments made at the public hearing and submitted in writing through and including 5/16/2017;
The Planning Board determines that the application complies with the review considerations and
standards set forth in Article 9 of the Zoning Ordinance for Site Plan approval,
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN 4-2017 FRANK PERROTTA, JR.; Introduced by George
Ferone who moved for its adoption;
Per the draft provided by staff conditioned upon the following conditions:
1) Waivers requestrg anted: Signage, parking and loading areas.
2) Adherence to the items outlined in the follow-up letter sent with this resolution.
a) If application was referred to engineering, then engineering sign-off required prior to
signature
of Zoning Administrator of the approved plans;
b) Final approved plans should have dimensions and setbacks noted on the site
plan/survey, floor
plans and elevation for the existing rooms and proposed rooms in the building and site
improvements,
c) Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning Administrator
or Building
and Codes personnel;
d) The applicant must meet with Staff after approval and prior to issuance of
Building
Permit and/or the beginning of any site work;
e) Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building permits is dependent on
compliance
with this and all other conditions of this resolution;
f) As-built plans to certify that the site plan is developed according to the approved plans to
be
provided prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy;
g) Resolution to be placed on final plans in its entirety and legible.
h) And the Board re-affirms the position that there is no subdivision of this lot per the plans
that
were in the tenant's documents from June 1993.
Motion seconded by Thomas Ford. Duly adopted this 16th day of May, 2017 by the following
vote:
MRS. MOORE-Is it further subdivision or no subdivision?
„ .
MR. FERONE-It's no subdivision.
MRS. MOORE-No subdivision of this lot.
MR. TRAVER-Right. Essentially no further. It's part of the original subdivision as of 1993.
MR. MAC ELROY-And I would say June of 1993 to be more specific.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. All right.
AYES: Mr. Deeb, Ms. White, Mr. Ford, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Ferone, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
MR. TRAVER-All right. You are all set.
MR. MAC ELROY-Thank you. On behalf of Mr. Perrotta, we thank you.
MR. TRAVER-Thank you for your work on the project. All right. The next application we have
before us is Greg Teresi, and as reported earlier that application has been withdrawn. So we
can move on to the next Planning Board recommendation to the ZBA, which is Christopher
Mackey, Site Plan 38-2017 on the Corinth Road.
PLANNING BOARD RECOMMENDATION TO THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
SITE PLAN NO. 38-2017 SEAR TYPE UNLISTED CHRIS MACKEY AGENT(S) DENNIS
MAC ELROY OWNER(S) MARY & WILLIAM CAREY ZONING CLI LOCATION
CORINTH ROAD (WEST OF # 310) APPLICANT PROPOSES CONSTRUCTION OF A 2,450
SQ. FT. STORAGE BUILDING. PROJECT INCLUDES A SINGLE DRIVE AISLE AROUND
BUILDING WITH ONE ACCESS TO CORINTH ROAD. THE SITE WILL BE CLEARED TO
INSTALL STORMWATER, DRIVE AISLE AND PLANTINGS. PURSUANT TO CHAPTER
179-3-040 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, CONSTRUCTION OF A STORAGE BUILDING
SHALL BE SUBJECT TO PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. VARIANCE:
RELIEF IS REQUESTED FOR SETBACKS. PLANNING BOARD SHALL PROVIDE A
RECOMMENDATION TO THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS. CROSS REFERENCE AV
36-2017 WARREN CO. REFERRAL N/A FOR SUBDIVISION LOT SIZE .26 ACRE TAX
MAP NO. 308.16-1-54 SECTION 179-3-040
DENNIS MAC ELROY, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. TRAVER-Laura can you give us an update?
MRS. MOORE-This applicant proposes a project, this is under Planning Board
recommendations, so the project is the construction of a 2,450 square foot storage building.
This project includes a single drive aisle around the building with one access to Corinth Road.
The variance request is in reference to the front setback which is required as a 75 foot setback,
and the side setbacks are proposed to be 20 feet where 30 foot setback is required.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Good evening, again.
MR. MAC ELROY-Good evening. For the record, Dennis MacElroy from Environmental Design,
representing the applicant Chris Mackey for this project on Corinth Road in a CLI, Commercial
Light Industrial district. Chris is under contract for this small lot for the purposes of building a
storage building for his personal use. It's not intended to be a business. The lot is 75 by 50.
MR. T RAVE R-Seve nty-five by fifty? Wow.
MR. MAC ELROY-Excuse me, by 150.
MR. TRAVER-One fifty.
MR. MAC ELROY-Seventy-five by one fifty.
MR. DEEB-That's pretty small.
MR. MAC ELROY-Seventy-five along the frontage, one fifty deep. The front setback is 50 feet,
but it's in the Corinth Road Travel Corridor, which pushes it back to 75, half of the depth of the
lot. Side yard setbacks are 30?
MRS. MOORE-Correct.
MR. MAC ELROY-The side yard setbacks are 30. So we've got a 75 foot wide lot. So the two
setbacks leaves you 15 foot. So what is proposed is a building that is 35 by 70. So we can
get back to the 50 foot depth, but not the 75 foot depth, and the 35 foot width creates a situation
with 20 foot setbacks where 30 is required. So we're seeking that relief on the side and on the
front. Based on the Travel Corridor setback.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MR. MAC ELROY-The configuration, there's a loop road that goes around the building.
There'd be several garage doors. This is the first step, obviously, seeking referral. Tomorrow
night's the variance request.
MR. TRAVER-So what we're doing is reviewing this in the context of the variance for the ZBA
for the setback issues on this rather unusual lot. Anything else? It seems fairly
straightforward. Questions, comments by members of the Board?
MR. FERONE-This lot is cleared, right? There's no trees on it?
MR. MAC ELROY-No, there are trees on it. The lot adjacent to the west is the old West Side
Auto. That's clear.
MR. FERONE-Okay.
MR. MAC ELROY-The property in back is Martin Seaton's A-1 business location. Immediately
to the west, east, excuse me, is a residential looking house, and a garage of some sort that he's
operated as some sort of auto business. The house may be used as a residence, though, it's
my understanding, but that's what's next door. This has been a vacant lot. There are few trees
on that property.
MR. MAGOWAN-The only question I have, that's an awfully, awfully large personal garage, but
my question is, what happens if they want to put a bathroom in that and we've got to have a
septic? Are you going to go with a holding tank?
MR. MAC ELROY-Probably that would be an option that would be considered, if at some point
in time Corinth Road doesn't have a sewer. Isn't there something in the works or thought of
about the Carey Industrial Park?
MR. TRAVER-Are there plans to put a bathroom in this?
MR. MAC ELROY-No. No, there is not. There isn't a requirement to do so, either.
MR. MAGOWAN-With a personal garage that large, I'm sure you're going to have projects in
that to be working on and, you know, what happens at that time you have to go?
MR. TRAVER-Yes, good point.
MR. MAGOWAN-That's the only thing that popped out to me. I said, holy mackerel that thing is
huge, but, you know.
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes, it's not required for that use. It may be something that is realized to be
a good idea in the future, and, yes, a holding tank might be the only option, something like that,
just mainly because of the amount of use. If he were to invest in a system, it would have to be,
it really can't even be under the pavement. It's not proposed to be pavement. It's proposed
just to be a gravel drive, but you wouldn't put a field under it. So I suspect if it came to that it
would go before the Board of Health to ask for a holding tank situation.
MR. FERONE-You bring up a point. This is just for storage, right?
MR. MAC ELROY-Correct, yes, it's not a garage.
MR. FERONE-It's not for changing oil, any of that stuff.
MR. MAC ELROY-Correct.
MR. MAGOWAN-It's a damn big shed, though.
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes.
MR. FORD-It's 15 pounds of potatoes in a 10 pound bag.
MR. TRAVER-All right. So with regard to the request for variance for the setbacks, are there
any questions or concerns that we would want to reflect in our referral to the ZBA?
MR. DEEB-Did he say what he was going to store in it? Do you know what he's going to store
inside?
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes, personal items, boats, Chris, his residence is in Queensbury on Route
9L from the lake. It would be something that he stores some winter stuff in the summer and
summer stuff in the winter. It's, yes, it may seem unusual to maybe the rest of us, but it fits
within his needs.
MR. DEEB-It's a long ways from his house.
MS. WHITE-I'm thinking I would rather see something built here than on the property on the
lake for storage.
MR. MAC ELROY-Correct. Right. Yes.
MR. DEEB-It is a long way.
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes, well, I don't say this facetiously, but it's either there or Fort Ann where
there's no zoning, and we've seen that whole corridor there that has grown because of storage,
boat storage whatever in that area, but this happened to be a little orphaned lot that was
available for sale, and he thought that it was a reasonable piece to try to pick up and pending,
again, it's under contract and has a certain timeframe to act on this, but going through this
process.
MR. DEEB-I don't know what else could go there. It's such a small lot.
MR. FORD-A smaller building.
MR. DEEB-A smaller building.
MS. WHITE-And it would require parking. It would require bathrooms.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, the only concern I would have with the setback request is screening,
and you show landscaping that would screen the building from the neighbors.
MR. MAC ELROY-From the neighbors, you're correct.
MR. TRAVER-All right. Are we ready for a resolution to the ZBA?
RESOLUTION RE: ZBA RECOMMENDATION RE: Z-AV-36-2017 CHRIS MACKEY
The applicant has submitted an application for the following: Applicant proposes construction of
a 2,450 sq. ft. storage building. Project includes a single drive aisle around building with one
access to Corinth Road. The site will be cleared to install stormwater, drive aisle and plantings.
Pursuant to Chapter 179-3-040 of the Zoning Ordinance, construction of a storage building shall
be subject to Planning Board review and approval. Variance: Relief is requested for setbacks.
Planning Board shall provide a recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals.
The Town of Queensbury Zoning Ordinance, per Section 179-9-070 J 2 b. requires the Planning
Board to provide a written recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals for projects that
require both Zoning Board of Appeals & Planning Board approval;
The Planning Board has briefly reviewed and discussed this application, the relief request in the
variance application as well as the potential impacts of this project on the neighborhood and
surrounding community, and found that:
MOTION TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON BEHALF OF THE PLANNING BOARD TO
THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FOR AREA VARIANCE NO. 36-2017 CHRIS MACKEY:
Introduced by George Ferone who moved its adoption, and
a) The Planning Board, based on a limited review, has not identified any significant adverse
impacts that cannot be mitigated with current project proposal.
Motion seconded by Chris Hunsinger. Duly adopted this 16th day of May, 2017 by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Ferone, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Hunsinger, Ms. White, Mr. Traver
NOES: Mr. Ford, Mr. Deeb
MR. TRAVER-All right. You're off to the ZBA.
MR. MAC ELROY-Thank you very much. I appreciate your time, and also on that previous one
that was a good review and I appreciate that, and it was typical for me. That's my
neighborhood. That's my friends that are arguing against me.
MR. TRAVER-Well, in a lot of ways, you know, we had our homework to do, but it was your
effort in listening and modifying and changing and improving that empowered us.
MR. MAC ELROY-Thank you.
MR. TRAVER-The next item on our agenda is also a referral to the ZBA. It's for 168 Sunnyside
Road, Sunnyside Par 3, James Beaty.
SUBDIVISION PRELIMINARY STAGE 7-2017 & SUBDIVISION FINAL STAGE 8-2017
SEAR TYPE UNLISTED JAMES BEATY OWNER(S) HARS PARS INC. d/b/a SUNNYSIDE
PAR 3 ZONING MDR LOCATION 168 SUNNYSIDE ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES
SUBDIVISION OF A 10.86 PARCEL INTO TWO LOTS — ONE 0.33 ACRE AND ONE 10.53
ACRES. APPLICANT REQUESTS WAIVER FROM SKETCH PLAN. THE APARTMENT
BUILDING WILL BE ON THE 0.33 ACRE PARCEL AND THE GOLF COURSE AND
ASSOCIATED BUILDINGS TO BE ON THE 10.53 ACRE PARCEL. PURSUANT TO
CHAPTER 183 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, SUBDIVISION OF LAND SHALL BE
SUBJECT TO PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. VARIANCE: RELIEF
REQUESTED FOR LOT SIZE, DENSITY, PERMEABILITY & SETBACKS. PLANNING
BOARD SHALL PROVIDE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS.
CROSS REFERENCE 1991 3 CAR DETACHED GARAGE; 1995 ADDITION TO APT. BLDG.;
2004 SEPTIC ALT.; SP 42-93; SP 13-2005 ELEC. INSTALLATIONS FOR NIGHT USE; AV
35-2017 WARREN CO. REFERRAL N/A FOR SUBDIVISION LOT SIZE 10.69 ACRES
TAX MAP NO. 290.5-1-50 SECTION CHAPTER 183
HERB LAVERY, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT; JAMES BEATY, PRESENT
MRS. MOORE-The applicant proposes a two lot subdivision. The lot is currently 10.86 acres.
Two lots. One lot would be 0.33 acres and the other lot would be 10.53. What this application
is for is to separate the existing apartment complex from the golf course, and the relief that is
requested is for the requirements for a, there's four units it would be, sorry, eight acres for relief
for the density. The lot size requires, in that zone, at least two acres, and for setbacks from the
existing apartment building and from garages, I think on both properties.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MR. LAVERY-Good evening. My name is Herb Lavery. To my left is Jim Beaty. To my right
is Greg Colburn. We're the three owners of the Sunnyside Par 3. Presently the 10.86 acres
make up mostly the golf course bar and grill. In the front on the road there is a four unit
apartment building that was there when we purchased the property back in 2004. So we've
owned the property for a little over 13 years, and about three years ago we decided that we
were going to try and sell the business in its entirety, and it's been on the market at ever
decreasing price points, and apparently not a lot of people want to buy a golf course right now,
and so what we were looking at doing is to break the two pieces apart and make two lots, one
that would be of interest to a real estate investor potentially to run that property and the second
to run the golf course bar and grill, and we feel that making that change would bring more
buyers for both properties. That's our main goal. We don't see that there will be any
significant changes to how the property is run/managed today, either on the apartment side or
on the bar and grill/golf course, and there will be no physical modifications and no changes to
the character of the neighborhood.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So it's a subdivision without any other changes basically.
'.j
MR. LAVERY-Yes.
MR. TRAVER-You're basically subdividing the business more than the land itself.
MR. LAVE RY-Basically for marketing.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. Interesting. Okay. All right. It is quite a variance, I mean, at least on
paper. You're talking .33, and the requirement is how many acres?
MRS. MOORE-Eight acres.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. So it is quite a variance, but it is a pre-existing, you know, in a way it's a
pre-existing nonconforming structure, if you think of it that way. Any comments from members
of the Planning Board on the variance?
MR. DEEB-So the rental units are on the .33 acre?
MR. LAVERY-Correct.
MR. DEEB-And how many rental units?
MR. LAVERY-Four.
MR. DEEB-.33. Tight. It's been there. I remember. It's just amazing.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, I think what you're trying to do makes sense. So the only question
becomes so where do you draw the lot line? Then you look at your site plan and there's really
not a whole lot of choice as to where you draw the line because of the uses.
MR. TRAVER-Right.
MR. HUNSINGER-So, you know, I think what you're doing probably makes the most sense.
Unless you start knocking buildings down.
MR. MAGOWAN-Yes, I'm just amazed somebody wouldn't want to buy the whole thing and
either have the front as their house, who wants to live that close to the bar, but it's quite the
backyard.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, especially if you're a golfer.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. TRAVER-Well, it was kind of like a chip and putt I guess. I haven't played there.
Interesting.
MR. DEEB-You think it'll make it more marketable then?
MR. LAVERY-We've had people that have looked at it that have come back and said I don't
want the apartment. I want to run a business. So this takes that obstacle out of the way.
MR. HUNSINGER-That makes sense.
MR. TRAVER-Yes.
MR. FORD-Have you had anybody applying to own the apartments and not the golf course?
MR. LAVERY-We haven't explored that because it wasn't an option for us.
MR. FORD-1 see.
MR. FERONE-Apparently right now the apartments and the golf course co-exist under one
ownership. Do you think it would be any problem if both the apartments and the golf course
were owned by two different people?
MR. LAVERY-I can't see why.
MR. FERONE-Your tenants are familiar with where they are.
MR. LAVERY-1 mean, that's a valid point in some respects. If there's a problem with a tenant,
we can go speak to that tenant about anything that's affecting our business.
MR. TRAVER-Right.
MR. LAVERY-But by the same token, if you have a neighbor, you can speak to that owner
about that property and how they maintain it, take care of it.
MR. FERONE-And the apartment maintains the parking in front of the building and the other
kind of a lot here is for the golf course parking.
MR. LAVERY-Correct.
MR. TRAVER-Any other questions or comments with regard to the referral from members of the
Planning Board? All right. Then we have a resolution for a referral then.
MR. FERONE-Yes.
RESOLUTION RE: ZBA RECOMMENDATION RE: Z-AV-35-2017 JAMES BEATY
The applicant has submitted an application for the following: Applicant proposes subdivision of a
10.86 acre parcel into two lots — one 0.33 acre and one 10.53 acres. Applicant requests waiver
from sketch plan. The apartment building will be on the 0.33 acre parcel and the golf course
and associated buildings to be on the 10.53 acre parcel. Pursuant to Chapter 183 of the Zoning
Ordinance, subdivision of land shall be subject to Planning Board review and approval.
Variance: Relief is requested for lot size, density, permeability & setbacks. Planning Board
shall provide a recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals.
The Town of Queensbury Zoning Ordinance, per Section 179-9-070 J 2 b. requires the Planning
Board to provide a written recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals for projects that
require both Zoning Board of Appeals & Planning Board approval;
The Planning Board has briefly reviewed and discussed this application, the relief request in the
variance application as well as the potential impacts of this project on the neighborhood and
surrounding community, and found that:
MOTION TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON BEHALF OF THE PLANNING BOARD TO
THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FOR AREA VARIANCE NO. 35-2017 JAMES BEATY
CHARS PARS, INC.: Introduced by George Ferone who moved its adoption, and
a) The Planning Board, based on a limited review, has not identified any significant adverse
impacts that cannot be mitigated with current project proposal.
Motion seconded by Thomas Ford. Duly adopted this 16th day of May, 2017 by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Ford, Ms. White, Mr. Deeb, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Ferone, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
MR. TRAVER-All right. You're off to the ZBA.
MR. DEEB-Good luck, you've got to go to the zoning. They're tougher than us.
MR. TRAVER-All right. The last referral to the ZBA is Site Plan Modification 32-2017 for Glen
Durlacher.
SITE PLAN (MODIFICATION) 32-2017 OWNER(S) GREAT ESCAPE THEME PARK
GLENN DURLACHER ZONING CI LOCATION 1172 STATE ROUTE 9 APPLICANT
PROPOSES TO MAINTAIN WOOD CARING BUSINESS AND RELOCATE A 160 SQ. FT.
SHED, WHICH INCLUDES A 40 SQ. FT. PORCH ON THE SHED. PROJECT INCLUDES
RELOCATION OF DISPLAY AREAS AND TO ADD LANDSCAPE LIGHTING TO SHINE ON
SCULPTURES/DISPLAYS. PROJECT STILL INCLUDES EXTERIOR TREE ART
BUSINESS, REMOVAL OF CHAIN LINK FENCE TO INSTALL ROPE AND WOOD POST
FENCING ALONG WITH USE OF BARN AREA FOR STORAGE. PURSUANT TO
CHAPTER 179-3-040 & 179-5-020 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, MODIFICATION TO AN
APPROVED SITE PLAN SHALL BE SUBJECT TO PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND
APPROVAL. VARIANCE: RELIEF IS SOUGHT FOR SETBACKS. PLANNING BOARD
SHALL PROVIDE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS.
CROSS REFERENCE SP PZ 265-2016; AV 30-2017 WARREN CO. REFERRAL MAY
2017 LOT SIZE 10.48 ACRES/1.5T" ACRE (USING ONLY 4,500 SQ. FT.) TAX MAP NO.
295.12-1-4 SECTION 179-3-040, 179-5-020
GLENN DURLACHER, PRESENT
MR. TRAVER-Laura, do you have any update on that?
MRS. MOORE-So this applicant is back before the Board, received previous approval for
starting a wood carving business on this location on The Great Escape lot, and has since had
shown a shed in a particular location and now wishes to move that shed closer to the front
property line. The applicant did provide a survey showing the location of the shed, and that
shed is within the 75 foot setback. So it requires relief from the Zoning Board of Appeals.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So there was an approved site plan and now by wanting to modify that
site plan and move the shed it triggers the requirement of a variance.
MRS. MOORE-Correct.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Good evening.
MR. DURLACHER-Good evening. Yes. When I was here initially I actually made a mistake
and drew the shed location wrong.
MR. TRAVER-And excuse me, just if you could start over and state your name for the record.
MR. DURLACHER-Glenn Durlacher.
MR. TRAVER-Thank you.
MR. DURLACHER-When I initially applied for the business to be moved I drew the shed wrong,
at a wrong location, and realized it needed to be closer to the road, and I'm here to request
permission to get a variance to move the shed. It basically moves it up with the other structures
and even with the back of the planter that's there.
MR. TRAVER-1 remember we had quite a lengthy discussion the first time you were here about
your concept for the layout of the site and how you were going to display some of your work and
that type of thing.
MR. DURLACHER-Right.
MR. TRAVER-And that part of it really hasn't changed.
MR. DURLACHER-No.
MR. TRAVER-There was a question raised, I noticed, with regard to the lighting.
MR. DURLACHER-Correct.
MR. TRAVER-You talked about having some lighting that would be up cast, and that's a
problem for us because of the issue of light spillage. We discourage and forbid up cast lighting
because it contributes to light pollution in the sky. So what can you do to make sure that that
lighting is not facing upward so it's shining into the sky?
MR. DURLACHER-Well, what I was planning to do is just those little small lights, those and I
don't know the actual wattage.
MR. FERONE-Like low voltage?
MR. DURLACHER-Yes, low voltage, just small low voltage lights that point at several large
sculptures and that's.
MR. FERONE-Landscape lighting.
MR. DURLACHER-Yes, landscape lighting. So landscape lighting, not.
MR. FORD-Would any of them point towards Route 9?
MR. DURLACHER-I'm sorry?
MR. FORD-Would any of them point toward Route 9?
MR. DURLACHER-No. Like I have a big horsehead sculpture, just big. I would have one on
each side, pointing up toward the lighting, you know, just faintly lighting the sculpture. Unless I
dangle it from the tree, that big tree. It's probably 300 years old.
MR. MAGOWAN-1 know what you're talking about, like my father has one because I had to
adjust it the other day, that, you know, that shines up behind the shrubs up onto his flag.
Because he can't take it down at night like he used to. So there's the light on it, but instead of
putting one on either side, because what you're going to affect then is really the north and south
traffic, you know, but if you had one, you know, on the Route 9 side, facing up toward, just one,
you know what I'm saying? And that would illuminate, you know, it wouldn't drown out the
horsehead. What you want to do is give it a certain glow, because it is a beautiful sculpture.
Because I come out of Round Pond all the time and that's the first thing I see is that big
horsehead.
MR. DURLACHER-Just one could even.
MR. MAGOWAN-Like I said, I think one, what you're talking is a little low voltage lighting, an
illuminator.
MR. DURLACHER-Right.
MR. MAGOWAN-Because you do get a lot of spillage from, I don't want to say spillage, but a lot
of light does come over from Martha's being so bright white and that, and you've got the street
lights right there, and then you've got the hotel, but like I say, it will illuminate that.
MR. DURLACHER-Yes. Just so I have a little bit, because it's going to be a sculpture garden.
So, you know, they're just faintly lit. Just faintly lit at night.
MR. MAGOWAN-So you're just talking basically a garden, low voltage, faintly lit.
MR. DURLACHER-Right.
MR. MAGOWAN-One of the things that I caught, you also said a safety fence there on the back
side. I think of a safety fence is that orange stuff. What were you thinking? Plastic safety
fence. Well, you already got the shed wrong and you're back for that. So let's get the safety
fence.
MR. DURLACHER-Safety fence?
MR. MAGOWAN-Yes, it says plastic safety fence.
MR. DURLACHER-It's not a safety fence. No, basically what that is is, Great Escape, it's a
chain. The Great Escape needs an access. We share that access.
MR. MAGOWAN-Right.
MR. DURLACHER-And there's an actual orange safety fence that runs across. It's a safety
chain, and it runs across, so in case there's ever a fire.
MR. MAGOWAN-That I do see, I just didn't like the idea, because the last time you were here
you talked about, you know, some sculptured posts with six inch round anchor rope from the
1800's.
MR. DURLACHER-Right.
MR. MAGOWAN-You know, looped in between.
MR. DURLACHER-Yes, no. This is just a back orange yellow chain.
MR. TRAVER-Laura, can you provide some comment on the issue of the lighting? If we use
the low voltage. I guess it sounds like it's generally still more or less going to be up cast, but if
it's low voltage, it's not going to be as bright as the rooster at Martha's.
MR. DEEB-Well, we need some specifics. I'd rather have specifics on the lighting.
MR. FERONE-Well, I mean, as long as it's not like a spotlight, a floodlight. The ones that we
would be familiar with that would be on a sign.
MR. TRAVER-1 think low voltage is pretty specific.
MR. DEEB-I'm not sure that's going to work.
MR. FORD-If I'm going up and down Route 9, 1 don't want to see that light. I don't mind seeing
what it's shining on, but I don't want to see that light.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. Right.
MR. DURLACHER-Well, this one, I would just shoot it away from, away from the road.
MR. FORD-Glenn, could I make an observation? You've been here several times before the
Board. You're a lot better with a chainsaw then you are with designing lots.
MR. DEEB-Nothing personal.
MR. MAGOWAN-This is going to do. You're going to look for a log that's half rotted away, and
you're going to set it right there in front of the lighting and give it something behind so you can't
see the light, then it will shine up from behind.
MR. DURLACHER-Right.
MR. MAGOWAN-A low wattage, low voltage light. What do you think?
MR. DURLACHER-Yes. That sounds fine. My main concern is to get my shed.
MR. DEEB-With that shed, do you really need that other 37 feet to move it so you have to have
a variance?
MR. TRAVER-Well, it's already there.
MRS. MOORE-No, it has not been moved yet.
MR. DEEB-It hasn't been moved.
MR. DURLACHER-It hasn't been moved. I have to move it all the way back.
MR. DEEB-If you keep it within the setback, is it too far back?
MR. DURLACHER-If it's within the setbacks, but with my mistake, it leaves it right in the middle
of Great Escape's parking and I can't use it.
MR. DEEB-Okay. I was going to say, you triggered a variance, if you could have gotten by with.
MR. TRAVER-Well, you have to move it to what we have before us in order to make it usable is
what you're saying?
MR. DURLACHER-Correct.
MR. MAGOWAN-There's something about that shed that you really and to me, I wouldn't even
call it a shed. It's almost an attraction.
MR. DURLACHER-Well, it's going to be, even with that old barn, basically, and centered in the
sculpture garden. So people can go in it to.
MR. DEEB-I don't have a problem with it. It's just, I mean, as far as your business, your
business is sculptures.
MR. DURLACHER-Yes, so it keeps small sculptures for scale, but I don't have to be running in
and out. I can lock up.
MR. TRAVER-All right. Well, tonight we're talking about the setback of the shed. Does
anyone have any issues with the setback that requested for the referral?
MR. HUNSINGER-No, because it's moveable. It's not a permeant structure.
MR. TRAVER-All right. We have a motion, I think, for that.
RESOLUTION RE: ZBA RECOMMENDATION RE: Z-AV-30-2017 GLENN DURLACHER
The applicant has submitted an application for the following: Applicant proposes to maintain
wood carving business and relocate a 160 sq. ft. shed, which includes a 40 sq. ft. porch on the
shed. Project includes relocation of display areas and to add landscape lighting to shine on
sculptures/displays. Project still includes exterior tree art business, removal of chain link fence
to install rope and wood post fencing along with use of barn area for storage. Pursuant to
Chapter 179-3-040 & 179-5-020 of the Zoning Ordinance, modification to an approved site plan
shall be subject to Planning Board review and approval. Variance: Relief is sought for
setbacks. Planning Board shall provide a recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals.
The Town of Queensbury Zoning Ordinance, per Section 179-9-070 J 2 b. requires the Planning
Board to provide a written recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals for projects that
require both Zoning Board of Appeals & Planning Board approval;
The Planning Board has briefly reviewed and discussed this application, the relief request in the
variance application as well as the potential impacts of this project on the neighborhood and
surrounding community, and found that:
MOTION TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON BEHALF OF THE PLANNING BOARD TO
THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FOR AREA VARIANCE NO. 30-2017 GLENN
DURLACHER:
Introduced by George Ferone who moved its adoption, and
a) The Planning Board, based on a limited review, has not identified any significant adverse
impacts that cannot be mitigated with current project proposal.
Motion seconded by Thomas Ford. Duly adopted this 16th day of May, 2017 by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Ford, Ms. White, Mr. Deeb, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Ferone, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
MR. TRAVER-All right. You're off to the ZBA with your updated site plan.
MR. DURLACHER-Thanks, ladies and gentlemen.
MR. FORD-See you again soon.
MR. TRAVER-All right. The next item before us is under Old Business. Paul Poirier,
Subdivision 6-2017, Preliminary, Final Stage 9-2017 and Freshwater Wetlands Permit 2-2017.
SUBDIVISION PRELIMINARY STAGE 6-2017 SUBDIVISION FINAL STAGE 9-2017
FRESHWATER WETLANDS PERMIT 2-2017 SEAR TYPE UNLISTED PAUL POIRIER
AGENT(S) NACE ENGINEERING OWNER(S) SAME AS APPLICANT ZONING WR
LOCATION END OF ISLAND VIEW & RIVERSIDE DRIVES APPLICANT PROPOSES A
FOUR LOT SUBDIVISION - LOTS 1, 2 & 3 ACCESS IS FROM ISLAND VIEW DRIVE AND
LOT 4 ACCESS IS FROM RIVERSIDE DRIVE. LOT 1 - 4.9 ACRES, LOT 2 - 2.1 ACRES,
LOT 3 - 2.1 ACRES, LOT 4 - 9.4 ACRES. PROJECT INCLUDES EASEMENT FOR ACCESS
AND MAINTENANCE — WILL BE INCLUDED AS CONDITIONS OF SUBDIVISION.
APPLICANT REQUESTS STORMWATER AND SITE PLAN FOR EACH LOT AS THEY ARE
SOLD. WAIVER IS REQUESTED FROM SKETCH PLAN FOR 4 LOT PROPOSAL.
PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 183 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, SUBDIVISION OF LAND
SHALL BE SUBJECT TO PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS
REFERENCE SUB 1-2010 SKETCH, AV 34-2010, A 16-2017 WARREN CO. REFERRAL
N/A SITE INFORMATION WETLANDS LOT SIZE 18.91 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 309.14-
1-46 SECTION CHAPTER 183, CHAPTER 94
STEFANIE BITTER & TOM CENTER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
0
MR. TRAVER-Laura, do you want to give us an update on that?
MRS. MOORE-Okay. The applicant proposes a four lot subdivision. Lot One is 4.9 acres.
Lot Two is 2.1 acres. Lot Three is 2.1 and Lot Four is 9.4. Lots One, Two and Three are
accessed by Island View Drive, and Lot Four is accessed from Riverside Drive. The applicant
did receive a variance on March 29th, 2017. This is in regards to their request for relief from
physical road frontage from Island View Drive and 50 foot required and road frontage dimension
requirement for roads less than 150 feet where 50 feet is proposed.
MR. TRAVER-Okay, and I see you've requested that the project have site plan review for each
parcel as they're developed. I remember discussing that when you were here before. Okay.
So you received your variance approval.
MS. BITTER-March 29th
MR. TRAVER-In March.
MS. BITTER-This subdivision has been a longtime coming. It started in 2010, and it had a few
obstacles that it had to overcome, which we got to that point but it just took seven years to get
there.
MR. FORD-1 remember it.
MS. BITTER-As Laura had described, it's a four lot subdivision, but three of the lots will be
accessed from East Branch over Island View Drive which is a private road, and that will be a
shared easement and maintenance agreement which we are working on which will be recorded
prior to the first lot being sold. The other would come up Riverside for the access and will not
share the driveway or any maintenance obligations as to the other lots of the subdivision. Lot
One's 4.9 acres. Lot Two and Three are 2.1, and then Lot Four is 9.4, but as you mentioned,
we're seeking a waiver from Sketch and we're also proposing a condition of approval that each
of these lots have stormwater and site plan at the time in which they are purchased because our
client has no intention of building these homes and has no ideas of the design and because of
the unique features on these lots we feel that that would be the best way to handle it. There are
more subdivision notes placed on the map based on Laura's recommendation which we did
after the last time we were before this Board, but there are clearing areas shown for the well
and driveway and septic, but that was the best way to handle it at the time they were ready to
design the houses.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. All right, and as you commented this has been pretty extensively
reviewed.
MR. HUNSINGER-Didn't we do Sketch?
MS. BITTER-In 2010, but as part of seven lots.
MR. TRAVER-So any modifications since you received the variance, since we reviewed it last?
MR. CENTER-Just the additional stormwater management notes that each lot would require
stormwater management. A couple of typical details that would show what they could use, and
again, requiring each one to come back for stormwater management review is much more
prudent. Lot Four still needs to go through the whole process with Army Corps for the stream
crossings and all that. So that will come to you at the same time it goes to that, and since our
client isn't going to be constructing on these lots, there's no reason.
MR. TRAVER-Gotcha.
MS. WHITE-So is that working the same way for the clearing plan? Because I know, I'm just
looking at this.
MR. CENTER-I've given it what I think is the clearing limits that would be for that lot, for that
house for the yard for those areas, which, the clearing plans, again, to correct Laura's, the notes
she, if you will, Lot One is about a half an acre of clearing. Lot Two is plus or minus a half acre.
Lot Three is about a half-acre, and Lot Four would be two acres, but again, we're crossing
streams. There's some stormwater management that's going to have to occur for that driveway
in particular. So that's taking all that into account, and the location of the house most likely is
going to be at the rear of the parcel. So that's why clearing is a little bit larger for that. The
other ones are not, if that's what you were looking at on the notes.
MS. WHITE-1 was looking at the notes, and I know I'm the least experienced person, and I'm
thinking the whole lots are going to be cleared, and I knew it was not.
MR. CENTER-No, on the Stormwater Pollution Prevention Plan it shows 73,000 square feet for
Lot Four and about 20,000 plus for the other three.
MS. WHITE-Okay.
MR. FORD-Access to the property has been addressed successfully?
MR. CENTER-Correct.
MR. DEEB-That was a big issue.
MS. BITTER-That was the hiccup. Yes, we have an easement that's been executed and
stipulation.
MR. FORD-Thank you.
MR. TRAVER-Other questions, comments from members of the Planning Board? It's quite a
project. All right. I guess we have a motion then?
MR. HUNSINGER-You have a public hearing.
MR. DEEB-Public hearing.
MR. TRAVER-I'm sorry. You're right. And this is also a SEQR Unlisted. So this was also a
SEQR Unlisted application so there will be a SEQR review as well. So, yes, we do have a
public hearing on this application this evening. So we'll go ahead and open the public hearing
and if you would like to address us on this.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
STARLETT COOK
MS. COOK-My name is Starlett Cook, and my husband, Michael Wynn, and I own the property
on Number 4 and reside on Number 4 Island View Drive. So we've been part of this seven
year project as well. For the record, I am not here to oppose the subdivision or to oppose
access to the subdivision. I'm here because I have concerns about the land bridge that is
Island View Drive once it goes across my husband's and my property. I'm not the landowner.
That is on the McGuire parcel, and currently there are three people that use that lot, Mr. and
Mrs. McGuire. They're senior citizens, and my stepmother, Colleen Cook, who lives alone, who
is approaching senior citizen. That's all that uses it now currently. So we, let's see, we don't
use the land bridge, a fire truck doesn't have to go across it to put out a fire at our house,
anything like that. However, the brook that this land bridge goes across does cross over onto
our property, before it enters the Hudson River, and this land bridge has been, has not been
improved since it was built in 1981, and it is, it was built by one man with a chainsaw, one man
with a bulldozer, and a culvert, and it has not been changed since that date. So it's in a
constant state of erosion, and the debris that falls away from this land bridge is continually
entering the Hudson River in front of, well, on our property. Now technically National Grid,
NiMo, I don't even know, Brookfield I at this point I guess it is has their easement. So
technically none of us are actually land front or waterfront owners, but at some point, you know,
my property meets that, and that brook enters the River on the part of the River that I use as my
waterfront property. I'm not an engineer. I'm not a scientist. I'm a lady with a shovel who is
constantly trying to re-route this debris. I actually happened to grow up on both sides. My
grandparents and my parents are property owners down there, and now I am a property owner
between their two properties. So I actually grew up right there playing in this little brook that I'm
talking about here where it enters the River. Used to come out, and actually it's a very strange
thing because it came out and it made a very deliberate turn and upstream, it went into the
Hudson River in an upstream direction. Over the years, and it's not just the land bridge
erosion. I will admit that. We have Batease, and we have Seeley that have a constant
dumping, filling into two little tributaries that enter into this one brook. So it's not just the land
bridge. However, after hard rains and what have you, the holes in the sides of this land bridge
would indicate to me that there is debris floating down that and entering into the River. So we
have ended up with an amazing beach in front of our home where it used to be all mud that you
would literally sink to your knee when you stepped on. Now it is a beach because I'm down
there with my rake and my shovel all the time trying to re-route this water that now wants to flow
straight out into the River and its built a huge sand bar out into the River. My husband and I
built a rock wall now to try to hold the debris as it comes and route it downstream to keep the
sandbar from continuing out, in and across the River. It's a lot of work and usually after the
high water this time of year and everything we have to re-route it all again. Last year I built a
pretty substantial rock wall. So I'm hoping it's not too bad. So back to this land bridge. It has
not changed since it was built, other than eroding and maybe some stone getting dumped on
the top and what have you. So I would like to submit for public record some pictures, and I
apologize for not having copies for everybody. This has been a learning experience for me.
All the very professional people that have come before me today make this look a little lame, but
I have copies of these pictures and I have labeled them One through Six. However, picture
number five I had duplicates of this picture. So I actually submitted the picture. There wasn't
anywhere to indicate its number. So it's written on the back, and I've also indicated the
direction that you would be looking, you know, if you were standing in the picture, the direction
that you would be looking. So the pictures I'll show here and then I'll pass them quickly. This
picture is just past my driveway. It's about where the land bridge is going to start, okay. This
is looking in a southwest direction. This next picture is standing in that same spot just doing a
180 and looking at the direction of the steep ravine, steep uphill on the other side from that
same spot. This is in 1981. 1 was 18 years old. I was not a property owner. My
grandparents were property owners and my parents were property owners.
MR. TRAVER-The photographs date from 1981?
MS. COOK-Yes. So I was the photographer, myself and my grandmother were the
photographers. So this photograph is just, there's snow on the ground here. This one the
snow is gone. There's a tree down, one of the first trees that was cut down. Again, facing the
ravine, okay. Big tree that was just down with a piece of culvert that was laid in this brook.
MR. TRAVER-So this is as the land bridge is being constructed?
MS. COOK-Yes, in 1981.
MR. TRAVER-All right.
MS. COOK-Okay. There's a man down in there and this big culvert being laid down in there.
This picture, this is an actual photograph. The culvert is located here. Dirt is being pushed
towards the culvert with a bulldozer. One man with a bulldozer just started pushing dirt,
pushing dirt, pushing dirt, okay.
MR. TRAVER-To make a land bridge.
MS. COOK-To make a land bridge. That is now connecting over, this is all the McGuire
property. So this is the part of the property where the shared driveway, I'm going to have to get
my bearings here, would be in here. This is the brook that I'm referring to. This is the land
bridge. That bulldozer picture is showing pushing land this direction, pushing dirt this direction.
All of the dirt had to be pushed from this direction, because when the man with the bulldozer
arrived, he looked at the deep ravine and said, I can't go down in there and up the other side.
So he had to go out and around back up to Big Boom Road and there was an old road that
came down to an old sand pit on Big Boom Road. He came down in and was all in this area,
and he came this direction, so that he could start pushing dirt this direction because he couldn't
go up that hill. Okay. So that's what you're seeing here in this photograph. This photograph
here which, I'll send it along, this is from 2015. This is the land bridge in 2015. You can see
that all that it's lined with are just logs on the side. It's had no improvements whatsoever during
that time. This tree right here that I'm denoting, the same tree, you will see that tree, this is
2015, you will see that same tree noted from 1981. It's got a ribbon on it here. If you look
closely at the pictures you can see it's the same tree, to see that we are talking about the same
piece of property.
MR. TRAVER-1 hate to interrupt you, but if you could just clarify for us. I appreciate the
historical perspective of the land bridge, but I'm not certain that I understand exactly what it is
that you are asking of us.
MS. COOK-Well, I'm asking that, I'm trying to create awareness of what this subdivision is going
to be crossing.
MR. TRAVER-You're concerned about additional sort of wear and tear on this land bridge.
MS. COOK-Absolutely. I'm just concerned about, not only three lots with the homes using the,
I'm concerned about the construction equipment that has to get in and out, but again, I don't
have to cross this land bridge. It doesn't really affect me, but what does affect me, and what I
am very concerned about, is the erosion of the bridge where it enters the brook and into the
River.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. I think we have enough information to discuss that with the applicant.
MS. COOK-Okay.
MR. HUNSINGER-Could you show us up on the map where your property is?
MS. COOK-Yes. It's off the map, well, we're right here, we're over in here. We would be here.
So where this brook comes down, it comes down, it crosses on to our property here. Our
property goes at an angle like this, and it crosses onto, it doesn't show the brook, but obviously
goes into the Hudson River. It goes through that culvert and it crosses over our property and
enters the River, you know, on our property. I obviously can't be specific without seeing it.
MR. TRAVER-Well, we can discuss that with the applicant. Thank you very much.
MS. COOK-Sure. So that's really my purpose for being here, and, you know, yes, that's really,
I just wanted to create awareness before this, you know,just make sure everybody knows.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, well you've certainly done that. Thank you for that information.
MR. DEEB-Thank you.
MS. COOK-That's all. Thank you.
MR. TRAVER-All right. So you heard the concern. I'm assuming you're aware of the land
bridge.
MS. BITTER-I'm very aware of that land bridge. The surveyors had taken a look at when we
were in litigation to assess the arguments that were being made. Ms. Cook is well aware of the
easement agreement that we also signed at the conclusion of the three day trial and the
stipulation that we entered into and there is a maintenance obligation shared with the parties
that cross over that land bridge. So the McGuire's, the Poirier's obviously are going to have to
make sure that that access is not impeded. I can tell you that that land bridge was never
mentioned, at least in my appearance. I was not there when the stipulation was entered into.
So I support the fact that maintenance of that land bridge will be supported by the individuals
that cross it, but I was somewhat surprised that it was brought up because during the extensive
review of this that was not brought up before during my appearances.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So the concern about the land bridge being the primary access to these
properties is the maintenance that you've stipulated to on the part of the property owners, is that
documented somewhere? Is that part of the?
MS. BITTER-Well, it will be documented relative to the McGuire and Cook who are the two
other individuals that she was speaking of that are adjacent to hers. The other folks are going
to be in the easement declaration that I spoke of that will be finalized before one of the lots is
actually sold.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So that will be part of, that will be required to be part of any sale or use of
this proposed subdivision?
MS. BITTER-Obviously, since they don't want to impede access to their own as well as the
McGuires.
MR. TRAVER-All right. I think that that takes care of that issue.
MR. HUNSINGER-It sounds like, though, there's a maintenance issue with the land bridge.
MS. BITTER-Is there a maintenance issue or is there? Well, this is the first time that it's been
brought up in the seven years that I've been talking about it. So I was a bit surprised by the
extensive discussion since there's been a lot of discussions relative to this, and that was not
one that I've ever heard before, but obviously the sustainability of the land bridge is important to
all of the people that cross it. So that's definitely something that's going to be assessed.
MR. FORD-How is it going to be addressed?
,.j
MS. BITTER-Well, I would assume that the surveyors, we looked at it when we were trying to
argue the easement that that land bridge was there for a very long time and we had Matt Steves
actually look at it during the surveying of the work. So if there's issues relative to the
sustainability, McGuire and Cook are already crossing it now. McGuire and Cook built their
residences. So that part of it was taken into consideration.
MR. TRAVER-So there'll be some, obviously, monitoring and ongoing repairs as needed should
it be endangered by whatever forces might, erosion or whatever.
MS. BITTER-Right.
MR. FORD-I'm concerned about the erosion issue that has been raised.
MS. BITTER-Right, and like I said it was the first time I'd ever heard of it.
MRS. MOORE-In the information that was submitted, it does point out in Number two, the
shared driveway shall be maintained, so, I mean, it's on this subdivision map that's going to be
filed. So it is something that we can evaluate and Code Compliance.
MR. TRAVER-Okay, and it sounds as though the sandbar that's being created is not because of
the erosion of the land bridge, because the land bridge has survived since 1981, so it must be
debris that's coming down from upstream.
MS. BITTER-And there's a lot of activity upstream as she had mentioned.
MR. TRAVER-Even in Lake George we see that happening.
MR. CENTER-And our disturbance is away from that.
MR. TRAVER-Right.
MR. CENTER-We're not proposing anything there.
MR. TRAVER-Right, and as we look at stormwater for each lot, that's obviously going to be a
requirement. They will have to meet the engineering requirement. So that will be, okay.
MR. FORD-Help clarify this in my mind. Who's property is that land bridge on?
MS. BITTER-1 believe it's actually on McGuire's. McGuire's is the first lot that's referenced all
the way to the left there. I know that she's got it covered, but see the first square? And that
property Ms. Poirier has an easement across already. That property was carved out of the
original land that makes up the unique shape.
MR. CENTER-So the land bridge is actually on lands of McGuire.
MS. BITTER-McGuire.
MR. FORD-Thank you.
MR. TRAVER-All right. Any other questions or comments by members of the Planning Board?
Then we will close the public hearing on this application.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. TRAVER-We do have a SEQR Unlisted action.
MR. HUNSINGER-1 notice, Laura, on the draft resolution you list SEQR Short Form but the
applicant has submitted a Long Form which is required for subdivisions.
MRS. MOORE-It's the Long Form. I can point out one of the condition, I know we were talking
about stormwater management, but I also included, as part of the conditions, to include lot
grading and wetland, the stream crossing as part of the site plan requirement as well. I don't
want someone getting caught saying I just need to do stormwater when I need the entire site.
MR. CENTER-And part of that with the wetland is the stream crossing on that first lot.
MR. FORD-I'm concerned about access, still, after all these years, and I don't see a successful
resolution of that. I don't have that in anything I'm looking at or hearing. That's going to be an
ongoing issue. It's not going to get better.
MS. BITTER-What's your concern exactly, if it's legally existing as to the access? Is that your
concern?
MR. FORD-1 beg your pardon?
MS. BITTER-What was your concern in particular as to access, Tom? Because I have an
easement right here that documents the access.
MR. FORD-Maintenance.
MS. BITTER-Maintenance, that's identified in here relative to Cook and McGuire, and Poirier is
being the other owner at this point in time.
MR. TRAVER-So they're using the land bridge as well.
MS. BITTER-And they're currently using the land bridge.
MR. FORD-And it's not being successfully addressed as far as the delta being formed and so
forth, and greater traffic is only going to worsen that situation.
MR. CENTER-There's no proof that the land bridge is eroding, causing it, as opposed to
upstream sediment going through the culvert and depositing down below. I mean, which one
are we talking about?
MR. TRAVER-It appears to me that since the land bridge has existed since 1981 essentially
unmaintained, if it were now out in the River making this delta it basically wouldn't exist
anymore.
MR. FORD-But it's upstream soil that's coming down through.
MR. TRAVER-Right. Yes, off of these properties apparently, and it's definitely an environmental
impact that's an issue.
MR. FERONE-Isn't that a DEC issue?
MR. TRAVER-Well, it's, you know, it's not a manmade, it's a pre-existing stream. So you have
to, you know, you have to wonder is this natural erosion? I mean, there's a certain amount of
life cycle with regard to waterways and deltas and if you look at rivers and streams and so on
over even sometimes 10 decades or certainly hundreds of years they actually change shape,
re-locate based on deltas being formed and then eroding and new deltas and water is an
incredibly powerful thing, but I think in my mind, for this review, for this application, if the delta
were being caused by an action related to this, which in this case would be the bridge, that
would be one thing, but I would submit that if it's existed without needing to be, there's clearly
some visual erosion, appears to be some erosion.
MS. COOK-Yes, and they fill in, you know, somebody will bring something and they just put, the
Egglestons used to own it before McGuire's owned it and they'd get somebody to come and
dump something into the holes and they'd lay some more logs. Sometimes the logs that they
had kind of lining it would fall off the side as it kind of washed out. So they'd put new logs, and
it's an ongoing thing, but it's all done with somebody with a dump truck with a little bit of sand
and stuff and a man with a shovel.
MR. TRAVER-So it doesn't constitute the volume of material that this delta.
MS. BITTER-1 actually have a solution, which we had already suggested, which is that each of
these lots need site plan and stormwater before construction occurs. So each of these, before
any construction occurs on any one of these three lots that are going to cross over this land
bridge, it will be before you folks. So if Starlett says it has anything to say about that land
bridge hopefully within the next year, if any changes are to occur, if you need any additional
evidence, then it can be produced at that time.
MR. MAGOWAN-Well, one of the things I'm looking at with the pictures there is it looks like the
culvert is really not accurately sized. Tom, you've probably seen it more.
MR. CENTER-1 haven't seen the land bridge over on that end.
MR. MAGOWAN-All right, well, if you look at the pictures it doesn't look that large. I mean, you
get a large volume of water coming down and it hits that land bridge and it starts swirling to get
into that little pipe to go to the other side, that's where you're going to start getting your erosion.
MS. COOK-It does back up on the upstream side of.
MR. MAGOWAN-And the upper business doing a lot of filling over the years that are, you know,
also created some runoff. So that's where a lot of the sediment, I think, is coming from, but, I
mean, the main concern that I would have is that I really think that culvert ought to be
addressed, or at least engineered looked at so it's sized appropriate for the, you know, because
that's all we need is a major storm and a catastrophe and the emergency vehicles can't get
back in there because that land bridge got washed out.
MR. CENTER-Well, that seems to happen with several recent tropical storms we've had in this
area that have had a huge issue.
MR. TRAVER-Although that would be part of the maintenance.
MR. CENTER-That would be part of the maintenance agreement. Certainly anything, and
when we come back for site plan review if it's a stipulation that we look at the land bridge, it's
very difficult to go in and construct on someone else's property. It's not like it's on our property
to construct. If it was a bank that's on our property, certainly that could be looked at and a bank
could be shored up, but the land bridge is not on the parcel.
MR. FORD-That's one of the reasons we need to take a very close look at it because access to
this subdivision is over that.
MR. CENTER-Correct, and we have a maintenance agreement that's there, and that holds all
parties to maintenance.
MR. FORD-Has that been utilized, that maintenance agreement?
MS. BITTER-There wasn't a maintenance agreement until the litigation went in.
MR. FORD-Right.
MR. CENTER-Right.
MR. FORD-And who is stipulated as having responsibility for that?
MS. BITTER-Well, by law they all have to share pro-ratedly in that.
MR. MAGOWAN-Well, what happens if you sell one lot and it takes four years to sell another
one?
MS. BITTER-Poirier owns the others.
MR. DEEB-So he'd be responsible.
MR. MAGOWAN-So then we make him responsible for sharing a percentage of the other lots
that aren't sold?
MS. BITTER-They're all pro-rated shares, including McGuire and the other party. Maybe I can
get the Poirers to sign in on it, too.
MR. FORD-But four of the lots.
MS. BITTER-Three.
MR. FORD-Three out of five?
MS. BITTER-Correct.
MR. FORD-So they're absorbing 60% of the maintenance, as soon as this is approved.
MR. CENTER-Correct.
MR. FORD-Is that accurate?
MS. BITTER-That is accurate.
MS. COOK-Isn't it four lots?
MS. BITTER-No, the fourth lot is accessed from Riverside. The last one, it's all dependent, too,
the bridge flows out now, the Poiriers aren't even using it. So obviously that wouldn't come into
consideration, but the idea is to keep the land bridge in place. That's beneficial for everyone
that's there.
MR. DEEB-It's 30 something years old. That's metal pipe if I'm not mistaken. What do you
think?
MR. CENTER-It's corrugated metal.
MR. DEEB-It's corrugated metal. So it's 30 something years old. What size do you think it is?
Just by guess?
MR. CENTER-Twenty-four maybe.
MR. DEEB-That's pretty big.
MR. CENTER-It looks like maybe a 24.
MR. DEEB-And, you know, what kind of condition is it in?
MR. MAGOWAN-Starlett, you've seen it. What size is it?
MS. COOK-If I were standing near it, I mean, it's not over my head. It's, you know, it's, I don't
know, I haven't played down there since I was a little girl. It looked big from the top.
MR. CENTER-Any work that would be done in there would have to go through Army Corps,
similar to what we're going to do on that other stream, for Lot Four. Certainly anything would
have to be looked at.
MR. TRAVER-So it would be well engineered.
MR. DEEB-But it is old, it's old.
MR. CENTER-And certainly when we have Army Corps out to do the stream crossings that
would probably be good for them to take a look at the land bridge and just get a feel for, get
their opinion, but again, it's been there for many years. There's some erosion on the side, but.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MR. FORD-Always looking to make things better.
MR. TRAVER-That's right. Any other questions or comments on the application on the part of
the Planning Board? There is resolution to review. And Chris pointed out this is a Long Form,
not a Short Form for the resolution. Okay. That's been corrected. Do you want to go ahead
and proceed with that? I think we're ready.
RESOLUTION GRANTING A NEGATIVE SEQR DEC. SUB # 6-2017 PRELIM STG.
POIRIER
The applicant proposes a four lot subdivision — lots 1, 2, & 3 access is from Island View Drive
and Lot 4 access is from Riverside Drive. Lot 1 —4.9 acres, Lot 2 - 2.1 acres, Lot 3 —2.1 acres,
Lot 4 — 9.4 acres. Project includes easement for access and maintenance — will be included as
conditions of subdivision. Applicant requests stormwater and site plan for each lot as they are
sold. Waiver is requested from sketch plan for 4 lot proposal. Pursuant to Chapter 183 of the
Zoning Ordinance, subdivision of land shall be subject to Planning Board review and approval.
The Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is
subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act;
The proposed action considered by this Board is Unlisted in the Department of Environmental
Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the
regulations of the Town of Queensbury;
No Federal or other agencies are involved;
Part 1 of the Short EAF has been completed by the applicant;
Upon review of the information recorded on this EAF, it is the conclusion of the Town of
Queensbury Planning Board as lead agency that this project will result in no significant adverse
impacts on the environment, and, therefore, an environmental impact statement need not be
prepared. Accordingly, this negative declaration is issued.
MOTION TO GRANT A NEGATIVE DECLARATION FOR SUBDIVISION PRELIMINARY
STAGE 9-2017 & FRESHWATER WETLANDS PERMIT 2-2017 PAUL POIRIER, Introduced
by George Ferone who moved for its adoption.
As per the resolution prepared by staff.
1. Part II of the Short EAF has been reviewed and completed by the Planning Board.
2. Part III of the Short EAF is not necessary because the Planning Board did not identify
potentially moderate to large impacts.
Motion seconded by David Deeb. Duly adopted this 16th day of May, 2017 by the following vote:
MRS. MOORE-I'll make a comment. It's Preliminary Stage. I didn't catch that when she
provided the draft.
MR. TRAVER-For the SEAR? Okay.
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-My comment was we review Part II. The applicant completes Part I.
AYES: Mr. Ferone, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Hunsinger, Ms. White, Mr. Deeb, Mr. Traver
NOES: Mr. Ford
MR. TRAVER-All right. So the next resolution would then be for the Preliminary Stage for the
actual Site Plan.
RESOLUTION APPROVING PRELIMINARY STAGE SUB # 6-2017 PAUL POIRIER
A subdivision application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the following:
Applicant proposes a four lot subdivision — lots 1, 2, & 3 access is from Island View Drive and
Lot 4 access is from Riverside Drive. Lot 1 —4.9 acres, Lot 2 - 2.1 acres, Lot 3 —2.1 acres, Lot
4 — 9.4 acres. Project includes easement for access and maintenance — will be included as
conditions of subdivision. Applicant requests stormwater and site plan for each lot as they are
sold. Waiver is requested from sketch plan for 4 lot proposal. Pursuant to Chapter 183 of the
Zoning Ordinance, subdivision of land shall be subject to Planning Board review and approval.
Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code-Chapter A-183, the
Planning Board has determined that this proposal satisfies the requirements as stated in the
Zoning Code;
The requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been considered and the
Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration
A public hearing was scheduled and held on May 16, 2017;
This application is supported with all documentation, public comment, and application material
in the file of record;
MOTION TO APPROVE SUBDIVISION PRELIMINARY STAGE 6-2017 PAUL POIRIER,
Introduced by George Ferone who moved its adoption.
Motion seconded by David Deeb. Duly adopted this 16th day of May, 2017 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Deeb, Ms. White, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Ferone, Mr. Traver
NOES: Mr. Ford
MR. TRAVER-All right, and then next we have the Final Stage resolution.
MR. HUNSINGER-1 just had a question. The applicant asked for a waiver from further Sketch
Review. Would that be on the Final approval?
MRS. MOORE-Typically we would have taken that into account and waived that as our first
resolution.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, and actually I thought we did have to do Sketch on this back.
MRS. MOORE-Yes, and that's why I didn't focus on it, only because we saw the application and
other applications where we've seen a subdivision of 10 lots and then by the time it comes to us
for Preliminary and Final it's down to five lots. So I wasn't focused on having grant Sketch
because you've already seen Sketch.
MR. TRAVER-So really it's an exemption of an updated Sketch, not exemption from Sketch,
because we did Sketch, just that it wasn't updated to reflect the final number. Does that
answer your question?
MR. HUNSINGER-Sort of.
MRS. MOORE-If you would like to propose a formal resolution, that's what I would say is that
the applicant has requested a waiver from the Sketch as presented.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Do you want to do that as a separate resolution, or I guess we can add
that to the Final Stage.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, I would just add it to the Final Stage. I mean, it was in Staff Notes. So
if the applicant requested it, if we do it at Final I think that's fine.
MR. TRAVER-Yes.
MRS. MOORE-Prior to, can you just clarify what conditions you may be placing on it because I
had the one in reference to contingent site plan for stormwater, and I was hoping that you would
include the grading and other details for stream crossings and things like that.
MS. WHITE-Will we need to note Army Corps of Engineers looking at the land bridge as a part
of that?
MR. TRAVER-That would be part of the regulation I would think. That would be out of our,
that's in their jurisdiction already. We can't add to that.
MS. WHITE-Okay.
MR. TRAVER-Good question.
MRS. MOORE-If you include it in your condition it would be lot grading, wetland details, stream
crossing details as part of site plan for each lot, including stormwater. So I believe that stream
crossing issue would apply for both accesses.
MR. TRAVER-So we can add a condition for Final.
MR. FERONE-Okay. Motion to approve Subdivision Final Stage 9-2017 and Freshwater
Wetlands Permit 2-2017 for Paul Poirier, per the draft provided by Staff. One, the requirements
of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been considered and Planning Board has
adopted a SEQR Negative Declaration. The waivers that were requested are granted for
stormwater management and grading. Waiver from updated Sketch review, lot grading,
wetlands details, stream crossing details as per the site plan for each lot. Each lot site plan will
require approval as they are developed.
MR. MAGOWAN-Second.
j.i?
MR. TRAVER-All right. We have a motion made and seconded. Any discussion on the
motion?
MRS. MOORE-Okay. Sorry, I'm not quite sure that's the intent. So you granted waivers, and
then I think we missed the word conditions. So you granted waivers from what?
MR. FERONE-So we didn't want to grant the waivers. You wanted those to be conditions of?
MRS. MOORE-1 guess you granted waivers from an updated Sketch and you granted waivers
from grading and then a condition would be.
MR. TRAVER-For each lot it would require, site plan review. So that is included.
MRS. MOORE-As a condition versus a waiver.
MR. TRAVER-That's right.
MR. FERONE-Do I need to repeat that?
MR. TRAVER-Maria, do you want him to repeat the motion?
MS. GAGLIARDI-It might be clearer I think.
MR. FERONE-All right.
RESOLUTION APPROVING FINAL STAGE SUB # 9-2017 & FWW 2-2017 PAUL POIRIER
A subdivision application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the following:
Applicant proposes a four lot subdivision — lots 1, 2, & 3 access is from Island View Drive and
Lot 4 access is from Riverside Drive. Lot 1 —4.9 acres, Lot 2 - 2.1 acres, Lot 3 —2.1 acres, Lot
4 — 9.4 acres. Project includes easement for access and maintenance — will be included as
conditions of subdivision. Applicant requests stormwater and site plan for each lot as they are
sold. Waiver is requested from sketch plan for 4 lot proposal. Pursuant to Chapter 183 of the
Zoning Ordinance, subdivision of land shall be subject to Planning Board review and approval.
Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code-Chapter A-183, the
Planning Board has determined that this proposal satisfies the requirements as stated in the
Zoning Code;
A public hearing was scheduled and held on 05/16/2017;
This application is supported with all documentation, public comment, and application material
in the file of record;
MOTION TO APPROVE SUBDIVISION FINAL STAGE 9-2017 & FRESHWATER WETLANDS
PERMIT 2-2017 PAUL POIRIER, Introduced by George Ferone who moved its adoption.
1. The requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been considered
and the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration;
2. Waiver requestsrg anted: stormwater mgmt. & grading; and updated Sketch review
3. Final approved plans, in compliance with the Subdivision, must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building and Codes personnel;
4. The applicant must meet with Staff after approval and prior to issuance of Building
Permit and/or the beginning of any site work;
5. Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building permits, is dependent on
compliance with this and all other conditions of this resolution.
6. If clearing limits are proposed then this will constitute a no-cut buffer zone, orange
construction fencing shall be installed around these areas and field verified by
Community Development staff;
7. If applicable, the Sanitary Sewer connection plan must be submitted to the Wastewater
Department for its review, approval, permitting and inspection;
8. If curb cuts are being added or changed a driveway permit is required. A building
permit will not be issued until the approved driveway permit has been provided to the
Planning Office;
9. If application was referred to engineering then Engineering sign-off required prior to
signature of Zoning Administrator of the approved plans;
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10. If required, the applicant must submit a copy of the following to the Town:
a. The project NOI (Notice of Intent) for coverage under the current "NYSDEC
SPDES
General Permit from Construction Activity" prior to the start of any site work.
b. The project NOT (Notice of Termination) upon completion of the project;
11. The applicant must maintain on their project site if SPDES or SWPPP are required, for
review
by staff:
a. The approved final plans. These plans must include the project SWPPP (Storm
Water
Pollution Prevention Plan) when such a plan was prepared and approved;
b. The project NOI and proof of coverage under the current NYSDEC SPDES General
Permit, or an individual SPDES permit issued for the project if required.
12. This resolution is to be placed, in its entirety, on the final plans.
13. As part of this approval, each lot will require Site Plan approval including stormwater
management, lot grading, wetland details, and stream crossing details.
Motion seconded by Brad Magowan. Duly adopted this 16th day of May, 2017 by the following
vote:
MRS. MOORE-I'm just concerned with the wording, I apologize. You're requiring site plan for
each lot that's being developed.
MR. FERONE-That includes lot grading, wetland details, and stream crossing details.
MR. FORD-And each of those lots are going to require a visit to that culvert.
MR. TRAVER-And that's certainly documented as part of our lengthy discussion that we had on
this.
AYES: Mr. Deeb, Ms. White, Mr. Ford, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Ferone, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
MR. TRAVER-All right. That wasn't bad. All right, and then next on our agenda we have, also
under Old Business, is Site Plan 13-2017 for Stephen, Carol & Andrew Bodette. This is a
SEQR Type II. There is a public hearing on this.
SITE PLAN NO. 13-2017 SEAR TYPE TYPE II STEPHEN, CAROL & ANDREW
BODETTE AGENT(S) CURTIS D. DYBAS OWNER(S) SAME AS APPLICANTS
ZONING WR LOCATION 10 HEMLOCK ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES A SECOND
FLOOR RENOVATION REMOVING EXISTING 572 SQ. FT. AND CONSTRUCTING
PROPOSED 570 SQ. FT. SECOND FLOOR WITH OFFICE AREA AND MASTER BEDROOM.
NEW CONSTRUCTION DOES NOT MEET SHORELINE SETBACK AND EXPANSION
NONCONFORMING. PROJECT INCLUDES AN EXISTING PORCH RENOVATION 98 +/-
SQ. FT. FOR NEW ENTRYWAY AND OPEN PORCH. PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 179-13-
010 & 179-3-040 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, EXPANSION IN A CEA SHALL BE
SUBJECT TO PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE
1991, 1992 BATH ALT.; AV 13-2017 WARREN CO. REFERRAL N/A LOT SIZE .24 ACRE
TAX MAP NO. 289.10-1-32 SECTION 170-13-010, 179-3-040
CURT DYBAS & TOM HUTCHINS, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. TRAVER-Good evening.
MR. DYBAS-Mr. Chairman, Board and Staff, Curt Dybas, accompanied by Tom Hutchins this
evening. I was here last month for the recommendation to the ZBA, went before the ZBA and
received approval for the variances for the setback and the FAR ratios. So we're back here for
the Site Plan, and some of the issues we've talked about last month, one was brought up, well,
first of all, there is a slight improvement in permeability on the site, and things that were brought
up last month was the hedgerow of arborvitae along the one property line, and I noted that to
get a well rig down there we'd have to remove those. Someone asked what we were going to
do. We're going to re-plant them. They're in the winter of their years anyway. I talked to Dan
Sperry and we'll take them out after, as they break down we'll replace them. I also mentioned
that because of a remediation expense that I received three days before at the Planning Board
that we were not going to use eaves trenches because there's no sense introducing more water
around this foundation, and I contacted Tom and he's going to give you an update on how we're
going to handle roof water. So we're basically taking this site and making it substantially better
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than what it is and improving it beyond, I think, what we were required to do, but the basis for
the building is take the second floor out, re-build the second floor, a lot will be inside, and take
an open porch off the back and make it a new entry and a covered deck and we're still within
the existing FAR ratios and going to create a year round residence on Glen Lake. People are
moving from Massachusetts to join us here. So it's good, and Tom will answer your questions
on roof water.
MR. HUTCHINS-1 don't have anything really specifically to add. So I'd answer any questions. I
did do the wastewater design and we did go to the down, just a property line setback for that,
and also I modified the stormwater from the eaves trench concept to an infiltration bed, but I'll
answer any questions you have.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Questions, comments from members of the Planning Board? All right.
So they did get the Area Variance. We got a copy of the variance, too. All right. Well, if there
aren't any more questions or concerns, then I believe we have a motion, a draft motion in our
packet.
MR. HUNSINGER-Public hearing? Even though no one's here.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, good point. All right. We do have a public hearing on this application. So
we will open the public hearing. There's no one in the audience, but, Laura, do we have any
written comments on this?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MRS. MOORE-There's no written comments.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So then we will close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. TRAVER-This is SEQR Type 11. So there's no SEQR process. So we can go right to our
Site Plan motion I assume.
RESOLUTION APPROVING SP # 13-2017 STEPHEN, CAROL &ANDREW BODETTE
The applicant has submitted an application to the Planning Board for Site Plan approval
pursuant to Article 9 of the Town zoning Ordinance for: Applicant proposes a second floor
renovation removing existing 572 sq. ft. and constructing proposed 570 sq. ft. second floor with
office area and master bedroom. New construction does not meet shoreline setback and
expansion nonconforming. Project includes an existing porch renovation 98 +/- sq. ft. for new
entryway and open porch. Pursuant to Chapter 179-13-010 & 179-3-040 of the Zoning
Ordinance, expansion in a CEA shall be subject to Planning Board review and approval.
Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code-Chapter 179-9-080, the
Planning Board has determined that this proposal satisfies the requirements as stated in the
Zoning Code;
As required by General Municipal Law Section 239-m the site plan application was referred to
the Warren County Planning Department for its recommendation;
The Planning Board has reviewed the potential environmental impacts of the project, pursuant
to the State Environmental Quality Review Act (SEQRA) and adopted a SEQRA Negative
Declaration — Determination of Non-Significance
The Planning Board opened a public hearing on the Site plan application on 05/16/2017 and
continued the public hearing to 05/16/2017, when it was closed,
The Planning Board has reviewed the application materials submitted by the applicant and all
comments made at the public hearing and submitted in writing through and including
05/16/2017;
The Planning Board determines that the application complies with the review considerations and
standards set forth in Article 9 of the Zoning Ordinance for Site Plan approval,
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN 13-2017 STEPHEN, CAROL & ANDREW BODETTE;
Introduced by George Ferone who moved for its adoption;
Per the draft provided by staff conditioned upon the following conditions:
1) Waivers request granted: Signage, stormwater, topography, traffic, commercial alterations,
construction details, construction demolition disposal
2) Adherence to the items outlined in the follow-up letter sent with this resolution.
a) If application was referred to engineering, then engineering sign-off required prior to
signature
of Zoning Administrator of the approved plans;
b) Final approved plans should have dimensions and setbacks noted on the site
plan/survey, floor
plans and elevation for the existing rooms and proposed rooms in the building and site
improvements,
c) Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building and Codes personnel;
d) The applicant must meet with Staff after approval and prior to issuance of
Building
Permit and/or the beginning of any site work;
e) Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building permits is dependent on
compliance
with this and all other conditions of this resolution;
f) As-built plans to certify that the site plan is developed according to the approved plans to
be
Provided prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy;
g) Resolution to be placed on final plans in its entirety and legible.
Motion seconded by Chris Hunsinger. Duly adopted this 16th day of May, 2017 by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Deeb, Ms. White, Mr. Ford, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Ferone, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
MR. MAGOWAN-Mr. Chairman, I'm wondering, after the conclusion of the meeting this evening,
if I could have a word with the Board.
MR. DEEB-It's too late. Do it next meeting.
MR. TRAVER-He's requested a word, and you want that off the record?
MR. MAGOWAN-Please.
MR. TRAVER-All right. Then is there any other business before the Board adjourns? Hearing
none, can I have a motion to adjourn?
MR. FORD-1 move we adjourn.
MR. FERONE-Second.
MR. TRAVER-All right. We stand adjourned.
MOTION TO ADJOURN THE QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING OF MAY 16
2017, Introduced by Thomas Ford who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Ferone:
Duly adopted this 16th day of May, 2017, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Ferone, Ms. White, Mr. Ford, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Deeb, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Stephen Traver, Chairman
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