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2006-08-28 SP MTG33 542 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. #33 August 28, 2006 RES. 413-418 7:00 p.m. TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR COUNCILMAN RICHARD SANFORD COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER-ABSENT TOWN OFFICIALS Budget Officer Jennifer Switzer Superintendent of Water Bruce Ostrander IT Director Bob Keenan Assessor Helen Otte Supervisor Stec-Opened the Meeting. Requested a moment of silence in memory of Councilman Tim Brewer’s mother in law Mrs. Emiley Akins who passed away early this morning. RESOLUTIONS RESOLUTION APPROVING AUDIT OF BILLS – TH WARRANT OF AUGUST 28, 2006 RESOLUTION NO.: 413, 2006 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board wishes to approve the audit of bills th presented as the Warrant with a run date of August 24, 2006 and a payment due date of th August 29, 2006, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves the Warrant with a thth run date of August 24, 2006 and payment due date of August 29, 2006 and totaling $741,125.58, and BE IT FURTHER, 543 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Budget Officer and/or Town Supervisor to take such other and further action as may be necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution. th Duly adopted this 28 day of August, 2006, by the following vote: AYES : Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec NOES : None ABSENT: Mr. Brewer RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING SUBMISSION OF GRANT APPLICATION TO NEW YORK STATE OFFICE OF REAL PROPERTY SERVICES IN CONNECTION WITH THE REAL PROPERTY TAX ADMINISTRATION TECHNOLOGY IMPROVEMENT GRANT PROGRAM RESOLUTION NO: 414, 2006 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. John Strough WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury’s Assessor has advised the Town Board that a Real Property Tax Administration Technology Improvement Grant Program (RPTATIP) administered by the New York State Office of Real Property Services is now available to provide funding to municipalities for implementation projects to provide taxpayers with web-based parcel level information, and WHEREAS, the State will accept grant applications during September, 2006, and WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury, in conjunction with the City of Glens Falls, may apply for such Grant funds to be used toward placing the Town and City’s assessment parcel level information and explanation of the assessment process on the respective Town and City websites, and nd WHEREAS, on August 22, 2006, the Glens Falls Common Council adopted a Resolution authorizing the Town/City Assessor to apply for such State grant and the Town Board wishes to also authorize such grant application, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT 544 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town Assessor and/or Town Supervisor to apply for Real Property Tax Administration Technology Improvement Grant Program (RPTATIP) funds from the New York State Office of Real Property Services, in conjunction with the City of Glens Falls, to be used by the Town and City toward placing the Town and City’s assessment parcel level information and explanation of the assessment process on the respective Town and City websites, and take any further actions necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution. th Duly adopted this 28 day of August, 2006, by the following vote: AYES : Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor NOES : None ABSENT: Mr. Brewer Discussion held before vote: Supervisor Stec-The Town and City will jointly apply for a grant for an upgrade or improvement to the town’s technical equipment for putting property data information and whatnot for both the Town and the City of Glens Falls available on the web site. Assessor Otte-This is a one time grant, no matching funds or contribution on the part of the municipalities. In the case of the City is to get the parcel level information to the web site such as Queensbury already has. We also want to expand the capabilities on the web site, such as comp searches of recently sold properties and information the public could then use to navigate their way through the assessment process. The more people who benefit the better the odds are of obtaining the grant. IT Director Keenan-What this will do for the town is we would be replacing the current server we have with an upgraded model so we could handle both the Town and the City information. We would provide the same data that we do right now for the Town but for both the Town and the City, the maps and assessment information. We would see a new piece of equipment and we will also charge the City a yearly fee to host the information to cut our ongoing costs over the next five years. The information will sit in our server but they would have a link from their web pages. Assessor Otte-We will have parcels identified by street address or by parcel number, we have not decided all of the elements we will put out on this, there are pros and cons some people do not want their names on the web site others don’t mind and want to search that way. That decision does not have to be made before the grant application is made. Director Keenan-Currently we are doing it by address and tax map number. Councilman Sanford-On a very remote related topic, I was disappointed to hear that the joint application with Queensbury and Glens Falls on the Queensbury Land owned by Glens Falls was not approved. Supervisor Stec-We may be able to reapply for that. Councilman Sanford-Questioned if this was to be pursued in the absence of the grant? Supervisor Stec-I know that the Mayor is looking at a few other options right now. Noted that the City has a grant writer that is pursuing this and other options for the future of their water needs, namely the dam repairs on the mountain. The Mayor has been pretty pro active on these issues. Councilman Sanford-I do not want the dialog to shut down because there is no grant money involved, if both entities want to move forward in terms of addressing what can be done with the watershed property then we should do it even if there is not a grant in place. Councilman Strough-Who is doing the grant writing? Assessor Otte-We will attempt to do it, it is very specific, the City has a grant writer that we have talked to, and there is a company that will write the grant for us. Noted the cost of the grant writing can be part of what is requested from the grant. There is cost of approximately a thousand dollars to write the grant. Councilman Strough-How much is a new server? Director Keenan-About eight thousand dollars. Assessor Otte-You are not awarded the hundred and ten thousand dollars automatically you awarded as you justify the need. Councilman Sanford-Should the grant application 545 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 be for less money, would that increase the probability of getting it? Assessor Otte-I would never ask for the maximum amount if we did not need it we will justify every expense we have, it is done in four installments so you have an on going check of what you are spending and when they pay you. Director Keenan-I would be looking for two thousand dollars from the City to reduce our cost for internet connection and those types of things. At present we spend six thousand dollars on internet connection to run our system. Budget Officer Switzer-This will be in the budget for IT program. Councilman Sanford-Question what the best guess would be to get this fully implemented? Assessor Otte-We are working on that this week because we have a short time frame here, I would say it probably would not exceed maybe half of the total grant. We are not going to a hundred and ten thousand. Councilman Sanford-Before you make the actual grant application you will narrow that down. Assessor Otte-We have to justify all that we are asking for. Councilman Strough-I think it is a good idea thank you for pursuing it. Regarding comparables, will that we added to ours as well? Assessor Otte-We will try to have uniformity between the two web sites that would give a search of comp sales in both places. Supervisor Stec-The City passed a similar resolution last Tuesday, Thanked Assessor Otte Vote taken Assessor Otte-We have to get this in the first part of September, the awards will be given out late November, early December, then we hope to have it instituted the first of the year. Board asked Assessor Otte to furnish them with the final grant amount that is being applied for. Supervisor Stec-Regarding request that Tim had on a building for the transfer station on Luzerne Road, the Common Council passed a resolution Resolved that the Common Council states an interest in the offer the Town of Queensbury to construct a new shed at the joint City/Town transfer station on Luzerne Road. Councilman Boor-Out Attorney will tell us whether or not we can build on someone else’s property. Supervisor Stec-We will need to find that out. SEQRA TRANSIENT MERCHANT MARKET-NEMER A, Does action exceed any type I threshold in 6 NYCRR, Part 617.4? NO B, Will action receive coordinated review as provided for unlisted actions in 6 NYCRR, Part 617.6? NO C, Could action result in any adverse effects associated with the following: C1, Existing air quality, surface or groundwater quality or quantity, noise levels, existing traffic patterns, solid waste production or disposal, potential for erosion, drainage or flooding problems? NO C2, aesthetic, agriculture, archaeological, historic, or other natural or cultural resources; or community or neighborhood character? NO C3, Vegetation or fauna, fish, shellfish or wildlife species, significant habitats, or threatened or endangered species? NO C4, A community's existing plans or goals as officially adopted, or a change in use or intensity of use of land or other natural resources? 546 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 NO C5, Growth, subsequent development, or related activities likely to be induced by the proposed action? NO C6, Long term, short term, cumulative, or other effects not identified in C1- C5? NO C7, Other impacts (including changes in use of either quantity or type of energy)? NO D. Will the project have an impact on the environmental characteristics that caused the establishment of a CEA? NO E, Is there, or is there likely to be, controversy related to potential adverse environmental impacts? NO RESOLUTION APPROVING TRANSIENT MERCHANT/TRANSIENT MERCHANT MARKET LICENSE FOR NEMER VOLKSWAGEN RESOLUTION NO.: 415, 2006 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. John Strough WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Richard Sanford WHEREAS, Nemer Volkswagen (Nemer) has submitted an application to the Queensbury Town Board for a Transient Merchant/Transient Merchant Market License to conduct a transient merchant market from September 12th through September 15th, 2006 for used car sales in the K-Mart parking lot at 308 Dix Avenue, Queensbury in accordance with the provisions of Town Code Chapter 160, and WHEREAS, the Town’s Zoning Administrator has advised the Town Board that he has reviewed the application materials and they are consistent with the requirements for such uses contingent upon Nemer also providing to the Town Board as part of Nemer’s application, its New York State Tax ID number, Site Development Data Page and Short Environmental Assessment Form, and 547 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 WHEREAS, the Town Board is duly qualified to act as lead agency for compliance with the State Environmental Quality Review Act (SEQRA) which requires environmental review of certain actions undertaken by local governments, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board, after considering the proposed action, reviewing the Environmental Assessment Form and thoroughly analyzing the action for potential environmental concerns, determines that the action will not have a significant effect on the environment and hereby authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to complete the Environmental Assessment Form by checking the box indicating that the proposed action will not result in any significant adverse impacts, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Board approves of a Negative Declaration and authorizes and directs the Town Clerk's Office and/or Department of Community Development to file any necessary documents in accordance with the provisions of the general regulations of the Department of Environmental Conservation, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that in accordance with the requirements set forth in Queensbury Town Code §160-8, the Town Board hereby grants a Transient Merchant/Transient Merchant Market License to Nemer Volkswagen (Nemer) to conduct a transient merchant market for used car sales in the K-Mart parking lot located at 308 Dix Avenue, Queensbury, subject to the following: 1. Nemer must pay all fees as required by Town Code Chapter 160; 2. Nemer must submit a bond in the amount of $10,000 as required by Chapter 160; 3. Nemer must submit proof of authorization to do business in New York and authorization of agent to receive service of summons or other legal process in New York; thth 4. The License shall be valid only from September 12 through September 15, 2006 from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. and the license shall expire immediately thereafter; 5. The Transient Merchant License shall not be assignable; and 548 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 6. Nemer must comply with all regulations specified in Town Code §160-8. th Duly adopted this 28 day of August, 2006, by the following vote: AYES : Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford NOES : None ABSENT: Mr. Brewer DISCUSSION HELD ON: Amending the Town’s Volunteer Fire Fighters Service Award Program Plan Resolution was to place on the ballot an increase from four hundred to seven hundred on the volunteer fire fighters award program. Also to be placed on the ballot to continue contributions to those fire fighters who meet the criteria and who are over sixty two years of age. Town Board requested more information be provided to them in regard to the following: 1.How many volunteer fire fighters over the age sixty two that could meet the criteria 2.the impact for each criteria amount 500,600,700 3.Questioned what the impact will be on the tax rates 4.What are other communities in the area doing in regard to contributions 5.Questioned if it can be placed on the ballot as an incremental change st Board agree to meet on August 31 in the Supervisor Conference Room at 3:00 P.M. to discuss the proposed amendment Councilman Boor-Regarding the authorized ladder truck when will that be received and when will the taxpayers start paying for that? Supervisor Stec-Received sometime in October, reflected in next year tax rate. DISCUSSION NO. 1 Sodium Chlorine Bulk Storage Tank Replacement –Bruce Ostrander Councilman Sanford-Commended Water Supt. Ostrander for the Water Dept. work in his area, everybody is very appreciative of it. Water Supt. Ostrander-This replacement was planned on this year unfortunately we have developed a leak, we have contacted a company that does fiberglass lining they said it was not worth relining…for storage of this product the life time of a tank is eight to ten years with a fiberglass tank, a lot of treatment facilities are going back to wood staved tanks with liners, the liners would have to be replaced eight to ten years they are easier to replace than the whole fiberglass tank. Other places uses polyethylene tanks we have check into and found that is the way we would like to go. Fiberglass tanks are twice the cost of the polyethylene tanks. Fiberglass $17,000.00 each plus shipping 3,000+ Polyethylene tank total cost 17,500. 3400 gallon tanks the damaged tank has been taken out. Noted a polyethylene tank in Clifton Park is twenty years old. Noted the two tanks were placed at the time of the treatment plant expansion they are ten years old. 549 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 Waiting for demand to go down and then switch tanks. Board agreed to have a resolution prepared for the replacement tank…will treat this as an emergency purchase DISCUSSION NO. 2 Queensbury Water Treatment Plant Capacity and Inter-Municipal Sales – Bruce Ostrander Water Supt. Bruce Ostrander-Kingsbury Supervisor Jim Lindsey has a large development to go in that would exceed the amount of their contract. At present they are paying a $1.65 per thousand gallons in 1990, the contract states that Queensbury at any time could tell Kingbury we do not want to supply you and cut them off. They need a letter for DEC before they can go through with the proposed expansion that states Queensbury will supply the water, since it exceeds the existing contract I want to run it by you. Noted the capacity is doable, I would suggest a contract that is similar to Hudson Falls and Moreau where they do a buy in for a half million gallons per day and they pay O&M charges based on what our figures are each year and a small transmission fee. The contract that we have with other municipalities is based on the economy of scale and larger users. Councilman Sanford-Questioned the total operating budget amount. Water Supt. Ostrander-5.9 million noted we are down one million from last year because of the projects we are doing using that money… Councilman Sanford-Questioned how the charges are established for sale to other municipalities. Water Supt. Ostrander- 1. charge them regular per thousand gallon fee 2. you have a buy in cost of the what the treatment facility cost plus a O&M, plus a small transmission fee to get the water through Queensbury. We do have the capacity to redo the contract with them and all they are looking for is a letter from us saying that we will agree to do that so that they can go on with their project. We may want to ask for a letter of intent that we do a contract in 2007, by the end of the year. Supervisor Stec-You need to tell them yes we have the capacity and yes we will sell you the capacity we need to work up a dollar amount and we will work on that. Discussion held regarding how sale of water is calculated, costing equation and market prices… Water Supt. Ostrander-Regarding the Warren Washington Industrial Park we do provide water to a portion that is in the Town of Kingsbury, they are paying a $1.52 per thousand they are not paying any capital costs…one solution would be that we would become the care takers but we need a contract and we do not want to become bill collectors, with our billing process if people do not pay bills it goes to Warren County taxes, right now there is no mechanism if they do not pay their bills for collection. The work would be on hydrants, we do not do taps private companies would do that and they would have to meet our standards…we need to get together with these entities and get something set up because right now no one is paying for anything if something happens. Supervisor Stec-It makes sense for Kingsbury to take this over as opposed to an IDA or Washington County. Water Supt. Ostrander-Up to this point they have been reluctant to do so. If there was a break we would respond and take care of it because we don’t want to lose water but we are working outside our district. Supervisor Stec-We will look into the IDA angle but I will also call the Kingsbury Supervisor about this. DISCUSSION NO. 3 550 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 Septic System Request – Schmulbach Attorney John Lapper-representing Schmulbach on the non lake side of Seeley Road This has gone to the ZBA for a minor variance, and before the Planning Board for site plan review no action can take place we have to deal with this first before it goes back to the Planning Board. Supervisor Stec-There are three items to be considered for the septic variance, - this is on the agenda for the test pit discussion Attorney Lapper-We had Keith Manz who is the Town Engineer for Wilton and does private work do a test pit we are trying to replace the existing septic system and he has found soils that are suitable but we need to have them verified, we are here procedurally to ask you to let us hire CT Male or somebody else to witness the test so we can have data that is collaborated. One test was done in July 14, 2006. Councilman Boor-One of the reasons that we are not accepting these things out of season is because there has been some engineers that were allowed to do this that weren’t doing what they were supposed to one of them I actually witnessed wasn’t doing what he was supposed to. It has come to my attention that perc tests were not done appropriately. There has been some serious issues some e-coil contamination on a couple of site and we have got some other issues so understand this is not punitive, we have a lot of people complaining that this is slowing things down but there was no other remedy. We are looking for an engineer to oversee these things for an interim period and perhaps we will hire in house we have not made a determination on that. Did you do perc tests? Mr. Manz-We did two, we had eight days of rain before the test we presoaked it when we got to the site and we ran five test in each hole highest stabilized rate was sixteen minutes per inch that was at the low end of the sixteen to twenty minutes per inch category. It is conservatively designed it is just a matter if you need someone to witness the test pit then you do. Attorney Lapper-We would like to hire CT Male on in interim basis and let them witness. Councilman Boor-I am not sure that is who we want to hire because they haven’t done the twenty four hour look at these perc test. We will certainly get someone for you I do not think it is appropriate for the applicant to choose. Attorney Lapper-Anyone that you would pick would be fine. Councilman Sanford-You will be coming to the Town Board after the perc tests are completed for three variances, this is a vary small parcel of land .18 of an acre, you are proposing a second floor addition and in order to accomplish the second floor addition you are going to need all kinds of relief from our codes in order to do it. I am not in very much support of your project. I do not want to give the false impression that I am inclined to favorably view these variances on this board, because the second story additional in my way of thinking is a discretionary decision and that is probably necessitating a lot of this. Attorney Lapper-That is not the case, what is going on here it turns out there is an existing well and septic that are non conforming they don’t really have a hundred feet of separation although they have been that way for sixty years something like that and her neighbor there was a location where she could put in a conforming septic system that would be a hundred feet but it turns out that her neighbor recently did a project and put in a well that makes that impossible the well is within a hundred feet of her septic. We would do a better design, a new system and Eljen system and we would be making it less non conforming because we would be farther from the neighbors well than it is now. In terms of the one foot this is a private driveway a shared driveway the parcel that she would be one foot from no one is actually living on that, the house is no where near there. It would be fifteen feet from her basement and eighty feet from her existing well so she would be the only one impacted but the system would be upgraded and better than what she has now. The home is nine hundred square feet. 551 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 Supervisor Stec-The eighty foot separation is that an improvement to the current situation? Mr. Manz-Yes Councilman Sanford-You add a second story and you are going to have more water going into the ground. Toilets being flushed and everything else. Unknown-It is two bedrooms, it was two bedrooms before that. Councilman Strough-What is the floor plan going to look like, if it is a two bedroom now and two later what are we expanding? Ms. Schmulbach-I am actually putting in a study. Councilman Boor-The house will be there for a long time and how it is used in the future Ms. Schmulbach-How could I possibly control that or how could anyone? Councilman Boor-We can’t control how that house will be used when you are no longer using it. Ms. Schmulbach-That is true of any house. Councilman Boor-Most houses are not on a tenth of an acre. Attorney Lapper-On Seeley Road that is not unusual that you have ..existing lot. She is only at nine hundred square feet and she is going to be making it better than what is existing now. Councilman Sanford-It is a philosophical discussion when do we draw the line is really what the issue is here. I have compassion and sympathy for what we are talking about here it is not easy for me to look at this applicant and say that I do not support what she is trying to do. I do not support it when it comes to the Department of Health I am not going to grant the variances and that is just me, I am not going to do it because this is getting completely out of hand where you have a situation where a person is looking to put some seventy odd percent increase in their square footage on a house as Roger said is a very undersized lot and you are going to all kinds of complex designs to try to accommodate a septic system in a CEA area that is requiring not one, not two but three variances. Councilman Boor-This has to do with what the use will be as we move forward in the future. I am concerned that the system that is being put on one tenth of an acre may not accommodate how this house is used in the future as an expanded enlarged dwelling. Attorney Lapper-The engineer is saying there is a better system as proposed then what is there now. Councilman Boor-How about we allow a better system with no expansion. Ms. Schmulbach-My goals are not going to matter, however, if you would like to hear what my feeling about the lake I am not a come lately on the lake my late husband had a boat on the lake at Morgans from 1950 to the early 60’s then we camped after that on the Islands, and we finally decided we would like to have a small summer place with a dock. I will say that is one of the wonderful things about this area where I am and the eight people I share it with me we do have a beautiful view of the Warner Bay and a nice spot and a dock which is all approved and all above board. I would like to be able to spend my future declining years in that spot. I also have two children who live one in California and one in Mississippi, one has one child and the other has three, I do not intend to sell the house. I am not going to flip it make it nice and then sell it for a profit I do not intend to do that. If I wanted to do that I would have done so when the housing 552 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 boom was really good and I would have just sold it as it is. My intent is to leave it to my children and I do not believe that they are greedy about space. I am also a good citizen of Glens Falls and supporting member of the Y I am a member of the Lake George Association. Why am I the one that is suffering when. Councilman Sanford-You are not, I think it is wrong to make this a personal character issue. I believe that we would be doing a disservice to the codes to our responsibility for looking out for the best interests of the CEA if we were to give you the idea or the suggestion that we would want you to move forward and do these tests and then come back and that we would favorably entertain these three variances, in my particular case that is not the way it is going to come down. You can count my vote out and then you are going to have to pick up three from the other four. I am doing this to you because I think you deserve a straight up front answer, I do not think it is appropriate based on the size of the lot and the circumstances and the number of complications and variances in that environment and I think this town is a long time over due but this town has to start recognizing this and making the hard decision. There is nothing harder than to sit here around this table and to have to look a very nice person like you straight on I am sorry we are not going to be inclined toward this. Attorney Lapper-We can have a set at the table to start talking about it until we have verifiable soil data so we came here just to say we would like there to be some mechanism so that we could get someone to verify Keith’s soil test so we could come back with whatever the best application is that we could find. Councilman Sanford-Before you can go to site plan review with the Planning Board you have got to go through here with the Department of Health. There are two phases, test pit data out of season and provide you feel you have a strong case for getting over that hurdle, you then want to address variances one, two and three. Based on my understanding we are under no obligation to grant variances and looking at what I believe is the right thing to do I do not feel it would be appropriate for us to seriously entertain your three variances. Attorney Lapper-She has a system that is sixty five feet from her well, so something has to be done whether or not three members of this board … Councilman Boor-I think I did address that, if you do not expand, if you are sixty five feet from the well I am telling you I will entertain, I cannot speak for anyone else. The test pits be done and perhaps an approved system go in but I am not inclined to allow ever increasingly large homes on every increasingly small lots. Spoke about a meeting in North Queensbury regarding setting up a septic maintenance district which could put a central holding tank in it could have a program where things are monitored on an annual basis in which case what you are proposing might not be an issue. If none of this was going into the ground I might look more favorably on an expansion because I would know that under any circumstances the lake is not going to receive effluent. Noted there is a meeting Wednesday and we are going to move forward in what we need to do to set this district up, we take it very seriously. Attorney Lapper-We need soil tests before we can talk, maybe the answer is the septic system gets replaced and she does not do an addition ultimately there is a compromise in the middle but either way we cannot come back and talk about a new septic system without somebody verifying the test. Ms. Schmulbach-If nothing is done and we put the house back as it was with no expansion what so ever what is the matter with the septic system that exists, not that I want to keep it I am just asking. Councilman Boor-Technically if it is a working viable system you have no reason to come in here for a new system. Our Code Book, you have to show that you have a failing system or there is a reason why you are replacing it to come in to ask for another system. Attorney Lapper-It does not comply because it is feet from the road. 553 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 Councilman Boor-The new one will not comply either. Councilman Sanford-Before you really should be making application in front of this board in situations like this you need to have demonstrated that you have what is known as a failed system. Ms. Schmulbach-A lot of people on the Planning Board said that they did not like my system, it was put in, in 1990 with a new system and new tank and piping, it is a trench system, it has not failed. But, it is causing more damage to the lake if it is leaking out of a trench system. Councilman Sanford-We will work with you to fix your system but the problem is you are coupling that with seventy five percent increase in your … Mr. Manz-We may come up with a better plan that you may like better but we got to get the soil tested. Supervisor Stec-If it has not failed then we don’t dig it up, we want to see a failed system before we dig it up, what is the requirement that forced you to look at a new system? Just because you needed a variance and you are non compliance existing use? Mr. Manz-She did not know that her system was sixty five feet the well. Supervisor Stec-If the system was working right she could do the project anyways? Councilman Sanford-Does she have a civil action against the people that put well too close to her? Ms. Schmulbach-At the time we put the well in which was 1998 I understood that we did not have to get a permit for the well if we were a hundred feet away from the distribution box, we were a hundred feet away from the distribution box, what we aren’t a hundred feet away from is the edges of the field. Councilman Strough-There is nothing wrong with what you did it is part of the problem with the code. If you are going to put in a septic system you have to be a hundred feet from the well. If you put a well in you can put it anywhere you want. Supervisor Stec-Who required that you come here for a new septic system. Ms. Schmulbach-The Planning Board. Supervisor Stec-The Planning Board said we are not going to hear your site plan until you go and up grade your septic system. Attorney Lapper-Yes. Which requires a variance. Supervisor Stec-But the septic system is not failing … Mr. Manz-Once you improve a site if the existing system is non compliant wouldn’t you have to come in and get a variance on that? Councilman Boor-I do not know. Attorney Lapper-That is if you improve the value of the property by more than fifty percent. Councilman Boor-That is why I guess I was saying you do not have to do anything if you aren’t expanding it. Supervisor Stec-Did you hit that trip wire? 554 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 Councilman Boor-So, it is the expansion that is tripping it? Mr. Manz-So she is saying if I need a variance on my existing system anyway why not put an approved system in with less variance needed. Councilman Sanford-The point is here, Roger and I made it pretty clear we are not incline to want to grant these variances. Attorney Lapper-We may ask for less relief. Supervisor Stec-I look at these as an approved system at a better location. Of these three variances the linier distance from an arbitrary line on a map is less concerning than a separation distance between a well and a septic. The relief from her own well is the bigger of the three, the others do not concern me as much. Have we granted twenty percent relief in the past oh yea. Has this hit any trip wires where I want to say I can’t say yes to this, no it hasn’t. Before we can consider this any further we need to make a decision on the test pit. Councilman Strough-It is a three bedroom house and we have to look at it that way and it is not you, your use it is who you sell it to, they are going to use it for three bedrooms. I have been up on Lake George and lived on Lake George and I know that this happens. Adding spaces over garages turn into small apartments it happens it is all over. You are putting a new foundation in and you are renovating the whole house and you are going to have two bedrooms, you have two bedrooms now and you are just going to make a bigger master bedroom up stairs. I am just wondering why you, if it is just for you and you do want it done and I can understand why you want it done. It is going to be a two bedroom place I am thinking if, and looking at it three bedroom and the problems we have with the size of the lot it is not going to fit well, if you went with a two bedroom house and then counting the den as a bedroom, then you are fine. Again you may want to if you can, you can up grade your house and rebuild it and make it look nice and new and that is what you should do and feel more comfortable doing that but I think you have to be cognizant that there is a sensitivity to how big these houses are getting to be on these size lots and you do have a very small lot so you realize there are going to be some restrictions there. The State Law says that anything,.. we have to count as a bedroom so we are looking at a three bedroom place if you want to readjust that and make it a two bedroom place and come back to us I think that may fair better a small house in other words. Supervisor Stec-If that is done we are still back to the heart of the issue what do we do about the test pit. Councilman Strough-I understand it now is the test pit will have to be redone with someone supervising. Councilman Boor-Or it does not have to be changed at all? Attorney Lapper-It should be changed because it would be a better system. Councilman Boor-It might be a better system assuming that the same number of people are using it now that will be using it twenty years from now. It won’t be a better system if there is twice as many people flushing the toilet. Attorney Lapper-But if it is farther away from the well it will not be a health issue. We understand what you are saying and we have got to come back with something that is a two bedroom house that you will feel comfortable as a two bedroom house, we need an engineer to verify our test results. Councilman Boor-I do not want this lady who I think is a wonderful person spend a lot of money when she not going to get what she wants John, that is the only thing I am concerned about. Attorney Lapper-We have to sit at the table and try to negotiate a minimum project. 555 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 Councilman Sanford-It all comes down to negotiating out these things until finally the board does what my opinion is the wrong thing and approves things and that is where you have the problems you have up on the lake. Pole the Board here, I am not in favor of an out of season test pit. Mr. Manz-Hold it now, out of season test pits, you are talking about your own regs, 136? It says it is discretionary in here it actually… Councilman Boor-We did it by resolution. Mr. Manz-Oh you changed it so it is other than 136? Unknown-So you can say no out of season test pits. Councilman Boor-We already did by resolution. Supervisor Stec-But we are saying we are hearing them on a case by case basis which is what we are doing tonight. As long as everyone understands the risk. Attorney Lapper-We have to change the application. Mr. Manz-I have two others that I need this person anyway. Supervisor Stec-Noted that had a person in mind, if that doesn’t work then we will try to identify someone in the interim someone that will do these. Mr. Manz-It might be able to be laid out where no variances are needed. Supervisor Stec-Everyone else is ok with allowing them at their own risk to move forward with this test pit? As soon as we identify a person to view the testing Dave Hatin will call you with the contact individual. DISCUSSION NO. 4 Septic System Request – Peek Representative-I need your help in your interpretation on a couple items. They went in front of the Town Board initially and it was not failing for some reason you said go through the entire process they have variances on other dimensional requirements and we have site plan approval from the Planning Board so now the last step is through this board for the septic variances. 108 Rockhurst Road Variances : 1. we have eighty eight feet to shore line, need a 12 foot variance - 2. one foot to the property line near the road so it is a nine foot variance. We had an application in and was tabled we went through the other boards so we will be back to you as soon as these other items beyond number one get addressed. No. 3 Planning Board condition said you should look into the two hundred foot issue because its so many feet from the lake. I think it is a hundred foot because it is a replacement system Section 136-9 B No. 2 says that. If you guys agree fine, if not instead of a twelve foot it is a hundred twelve foot variance if it needs to be two hundred feet. Councilman Boor-There is a certain percentage of the house that has to remain and then it becomes new construction and then it becomes new construction in which the two hundred foot would kick in. Representative-The foot print is the same the height of the house is the same, the same foundation, we will figure that out I will look into that with the architect. No. 32 This is a test pit issue, they say five feet below the depth of the leaching facility. I did verify that we have the three feet separation…It is leaching out twenty five inches below grade because the test pit was eighty four inches, if you subtract twenty five from the eighty four that is only seven feet the difference is fifty nine inches I am in inch shy of proving I am five feet below the depth of my .. I do not know if I need a variance on that one inch. 556 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 Councilman Boor-Noted he wished to review the material and view the site. Representative-They did recommend the wastewater treatment unit in lieu of the septic tank, we are agreeing with this. Councilman Boor-This is in the exact area where the district is being proposed. Representative-I guess I need another test pit even though this was in season if you are saying I have to go down eight feet. Councilman Boor-I do not know right now. Representative-An application is ready for a Planning Board Public hearing but I might have to amend it based on Two and Three. Requested that the Board look at that and get back to me. Councilman Boor-There is a plat for that subdivision that show there is to be nothing in the ten feet next to the road because they were going to put utilities in there. Representative-They impressed that at the meeting and they ended up determining that is a private matter with whatever the association was that formed it. Councilman Boor-I would hate to have them put in a twenty thousand dollar system and have a septic maintenance district and have that pipe go right through that thing. Representative-If they went through that thing they would be pumping into that thing anyway. The timing is the thing on that, it sounds nice but. Councilman Boor-We meet a week from Wednesday. Representative-If that goes in quickly they may go to it but I think they will still want to get on an agenda and get their variances … Supervisor Stec-They can always have the variances and not use it. We should have an idea by next spring if it is imminent or not and then they can make the decision do we want to come up with a plan B for two years like a holding tank or whatever , Representative-Who will get back with to me with No. 2 and 3. Supervisor Stec-Dave Hatin Representative-What ever he determines on them that is the way the application should go. Councilman Boor-Craig Brown on whether it is new construction or not. BAY PARKWAY – Barrington and DeVine Representative-That was done in season but I think the depth was shallow on that. I did not go the eight feet, I think I have to do another one there. I will need an individual to go out and redo that test pit. Councilman Boor-We will get you somebody. Supervisor Stec-In the interim until we figure out what we what to do on a permanent basis, we could do time and expense with Barton and Loguidice isn’t conflicted with private development they only do municipal work. Councilman Boor-I would like them to work thorough the Town Board not the Planning Dept. It is a Board of Health issue. 557 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 Supervisor Stec-We will do these on a case by case basis. DISCUSSION – SEPTIC SYSTEM REQUEST - RIDGE ROAD Test Pit Representative-Located ¾ mil from the lake, wishing to place a house and detached garage on the site. Noted there is ledge in the area, a residence to the north and south both have raised systems. The proposed system there is a certain amount of soil prior to rock, we are one hundred and forty to one hundred and fifty feet from both neighboring wells, there is sufficient distance from the rear of the lot for a hundred foot separation on an on site well for this lot. Supervisor Stec-Noted no variances needed, just need test pit done… Representative-Would like to start construction both the garage and house this fall. Councilman Sanford-Do you have to go to any other boards on this? Representative-No. Councilman Boor-By the end of the week we are going to have somebody that and do what you need to have done. Supervisor Stec-Dave will be point of contact. DISCUSSION NO. 5 Planning Staff Suggestion For Project Engineers Certification of As-Built Site Plan Supervisor Stec-Noted that basically the Planning Board is already doing this, that is part of their negotiation with the applicants, do we want to codify that, or let it go the way it is? Councilman Strough-We should get feed back from Craig and the Planning Board do they want to codify it or do they want it left? People get their approvals and go ahead and build something, but do they build it as they said they were going to? Sometimes we have to find out or a neighbor tell us, it was not built the way it was supposed to be. Supervisor Stec-Staff is spending a lot of time verifying this. Councilman Strough-The proposal is they have significant enough to have the applicants engineer verify that they did in fact build it in a manner that they said they would. Councilman Boor-The liability goes to them. Councilman Strough-The cost goes to them. It is an as-build survey. Is the basement where they said the basement was going to be X number of feet from the property line. In some places as-build surveys are standard. We can make it a standard but would you want it for everything? Councilman Sanford-What is the threshold that would require this? Supervisor Stec-At present it is up to the Planning Boards discretion. Councilman Strough-We may want to consider codifying it. DISCUSSIONS 558 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 Councilman Sanford- 1 Great Escape noise report – should have been done by now, I would like t a copy of that. (Supervisor Stec-I will ask about it.) 2. North Road questioned a curb placement (Supervisor Stec- We just did Fort Amherst and Garrison, I do not know if North ever had them) noted he will tell the resident of North Road that we may talk about it in ’07 but not this year. 3. Rudnick – owner of property where homeless people camped, area has debris on it, noted that the town cannot clean it up… 4. Route 9/Quaker Road set backs Are we moving forward with that? (Supervisor Stec-They gave us draft language, the last question was whether or not to send it to anyone else, to incorporate as part of everything else that is going on or to do it outside of that process) We had settled on a fifty foot set back and yet it was trumped by site plan approvals. (Supervisor Stec-If there was any other approvals that they had already had that is what their approval was) Raised question of temporary tents and special use permits, if we did this would this overrule? Staff was to get back to us, we have not received that. 5. Vacancies on Planning Board and Zoning Board of Appeals alternate members we need to move on that. 6. PORC Committee needs to be reconfigured. 7. Need update on CLUP (Supervisor Stec-Looking at separate workshops in September and look at additional membership on PORC and Zoning and Planning Board alternates) Councilman Strough-One that would be nice in our plan is how our Town Government is structured, so Stu did that for me and so we have got it, we should take a look at it and see if what we have is what we want. Discussion on PORC – to have member from the Town Board, Councilman Strough indicated that he would be interested, ..other new members to be discussed from the list of those that have been attending the meetings.. Supervisor Stec-will contact the existing four members to see if they wish to continue on the committee and contact everyone on the attendance list to gage their willingness. Dr. Hoffman-I went to the last PORC Committee, they are moving ahead on the rezoning, they have finished residential and they have a draft of commercial the next meeting they will be ready to adopt commercial. The Comprehensive Land Use Plan has not been approved yet. Councilman Sanford-They do not have the benefit of any direction from this board as to whether or not they are addressing changes in 179 and the way we want them to. We are the Board that has to approve it. Dr. Hoffman-I think we need to move this up on the list of priorities. Councilman Boor- 1.Re: Stormwater Drainage agreement for Seeley Road-it is a very wet area we need to be careful with what we do with these expansions. 2. Lake Sunnyside Aquatic Plant control Special Dist. it is not how they would have preferred this district be applied. It is benefit tax, it is going to have to have a survey. I want permission to give this communication from Miller and Mannix to the President of the Lake Sunnyside Association so he can read it. I do not know who will pick up these costs, it may be very expensive to set up this district. (Supervisor Stec- My understanding is that the general fund would front the money and if the district gets created then the district would pay back over time, if not the general funds eats it.) Questioned the payback time. Questioned raised regarding the title of the district, it would allow them to do the most of the kinds of things they wanted to do. Asked for feed back from the Board… 3. Agreed with moving forward with the appointments and the review of the Comprehensive Land Use Plan. Councilman Strough- 1. Proposal to the Comprehensive Land Use Plan was a Part B or Appendix, labeling strategic areas of town, I came up with seventy eight there could be more. Part A is general terms of what we want to do, Part B specifically talks about parts of town what has happen, the history, development trends, and what is the public 559 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 vision for that part of town, specific and set up in alphabetical order. The neighborhood section is very general it was hard to find a specific area of town. At what point in time do you want a public hearing on that? Councilman Sanford-I think we want to meet as a Board and change this document so that we can get a consensus in terms of voting on it. We need to give due consideration to public comment. Councilman Strough-I took apart the neighborhood sections, if they referred to a specific location I included that location in my list and I included their description I may have updated it. I took open space and every site that was listed strategically of interest in the open space vision plan I included it in the encyclopedia, I will use that for lack of a better word. I took Glen Lake Studies, I took Halfway Brook studies whatever areas are listed as strategically of interest I included it in this, and I included a summary of what it said. Councilman Sanford-I read the document that they prepared, and the last draft that we have they did not include your appendix B but they did incorporate into the core document talk about neighborhood. Councilman Strough-In the minutes they said at this point in time they kind of threw up their hands and I do not know what to do with John Strough’s work. There is certainly a lot of merit in terms of what he has addressed here, he has organized it in an easy format plus the history. If you read the minutes it basically said let the Town Board decide what they want to do with it. Councilman Sanford-I thought what we were going to do is have Part A which is the general vision for the direction that we want the Town to go in, Appendix B which was providing pretty much what you had done an alphabetical index of with cross references to provide an additional resource to different people who might be referencing that document. Councilman Strough-In the introduction to Part B it says that in order for you to develop zoning you have to consider both parts. The final product we could take somebody who does that for a living and take Part B, stream line it and write it. It needs public input. RESOLUTION CALLING FOR AND EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 416. 2006 INTROUDUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Councilman Sanford RESOLVED , that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into and Executive Session to discussion the job performance of an individual and employment history of an individual. AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: Mr. Brewer RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 417.2006 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough 560 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-28-2006 MTG. #33 RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Executive Session. th Duly adopted this 28 day of August, 2006 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: Mr. Brewer NO ACTION TAKEN RESOLUTION ADJOURNING SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION 418.2006 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. John Strough WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Special Meeting of the Queensbury Town Board. th Duly adopted this 28 day of August, 2006 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: Mr. Brewer Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury