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2006-09-18 SP MTG36 1 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG.#36 September 18, 2006 RES. 442 7:00 p.m. TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR COUNCILMAN RICHARD SANFORD COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER TOWN OFFICIALS Sr. Planner Stu Baker Budget Officer Jennifer Switzer President of Warren County EDC Board Members of QEDC and Warren County EDC Town Consultant from Barton and Loguidice-Rob Sipzner DISCUSSION ITEM NO. 1 Proposed Property Exchange with QEDC Supervisor Stec-When we closed in early August and the deeds were filed with the property swap that involved the old Rescue Squad the property that QEDC transferred to the Town and we in turn swapped for the new Rescue Squad building the Jewish Cemetery the Connector Road parcel itself and all that we had several different things coming together at the same time and there was a property swap involved. In the middle of that Warren County EDC has been able to attract and interested tenant to the left over six plus acres location to the south of our park and ride on the Connector Road for a major employer. At issue is the builder that would be building for the tenant they have an option on the property they would like to make the site work for them they need another acre from six to a little under seven. They propose a property swap, now instead of QEDC owning the extra property the Town and the Park and Ride own the extra property. Consultant Sipsnor has looked at the layout from a technical perspective to see if we could jockey the park and ride a little differently so we could identify an extra piece that would make sense to cleave out. Mr. Len Fosbrook-Noted that a company has been looking for a site for their business we are promoting this site, they have also looked at a site in Saratoga and Schenectady Counties. They have chosen this site, we are the administrative agent for this town in QEDC, we have negotiated an option for two pieces of property. The developer once they got the layout of the building and the required number of parking and also future expansion, they needed more land to meet code and they proposed that they wanted additional property. Noted the property was intended for storm water management and that is what it is intended to be used for. They will give rights to use the storm water management and include park and ride as well so it serves duel purpose and they propose to build additional parking in this section. We are asking the Town Board return this portion of the property to the QEDC so we can include it in the deal. In return you get the constructed storm water management area, we can give this piece of the property to the town as well. This is a good deal. Supervisor Stec-We do not have a formal commitment but you think that we are the front running site of the three sites? Mr. Fosbrook-We are and there is a desire to get in front of the Planning Board as soon as possible so they can meet their time line and so they can start construction this spring. I think once this is done and prior to getting in front of the Planning Board they would want to make a public announcement so I would suspect early October. 2 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 Supervisor Stec-They have been doing their own site search since late spring or early summer. Mr. Fosbrook-Approximately six months. Councilman Brewer-I hope this never happens but if for whatever reason this falls through does this revert back? Mr. Fosbrook-Yes. It does. Councilman Boor-Do you actually hold the deed or a promissory commitment? Mr. Fosbrook-I believe that the option is written if the project does not move forward that they cannot exercise the option. Supervisor Stec-I want to make sure, we have an end in mind that may or may not happen and that is the question we are asking about, but what we are talking about isn’t transferring this to the end property owner we are talking about transferring that L shape to QEDC. Does it come back to the Town? Mr. Fosbrook-That is exactly right. Councilman Boor-It can be structured such that if it falls thorough that QEDC does not control that portion that they are considering acquiring from the Town. Mr. Fosbrook-I quite honestly think the bigger piece of property you can have here and still have accommodate the EMS and … the more options we are going to have. Supervisor Stec-When we sat down with the Rescue Squad that was one of the issues is that be careful of how big a lot you give away to the Rescue Squad because the more acreage that we have for economic development the more flexibility we have and now we are finding that is the case. We may want to say in any event QEDC use it for economic development. Councilman Strough-We have to make sure that the grant that we got for the Park and Ride and the provisions of that grant are going to meet with this proposal. Supervisor Stec-We have viewed that and they are. Councilman Strough-Now we are putting the storm water back there and I do not know if that was originally or not but we may have to redesign this Park and Ride parking area which is also serving as a parking area for the EMS Squad. If so, if that is going to have to be re-engineered is that going to be something that we are going to have to do? Is that going to be a financial burden on the Town? Mr. Fosbrook-I do not know how big a deal it is, I do not know if it will require significant engineering. Representative of Barton and Loguidice Rob Sipzner-It is scientifically enough different in that what we presented to the DOT in the draft design report was not looked like that, so what they had in front of them was not that so we would have to get the DOT design approval to secure funding. I do not think DOT will have a problem what we will have to do redesigning, again which is just .. Councilman Sanford-They are aware of this? Supervisor Stec-DOT is aware that we are looking at that change. Representative Barton and Loguidice rob Sipzner-I have been talking to them. Supervisor Stec-He is our consultant for the Town. 3 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 Representative of Barton and Loguidice Rob Sipzner-I have been working with the DOT to make sure that any changes… Supervisor Stec-on the connector road and the grant…The questions you are asking he has been watching for us. Representative of Barton and Loguidice Rob Sipzner -I have been trying to make sure that not only are your best interests served but that we can get it funded to the greatest extent possible through supplementing the project with the Dot. Supervisor Stec-But, specifically is that a change an issue for the grant, the grant application that we put in was very generic and said we are looking at a Park and Ride of forty spaces and this is over forty it is still over forty and really and that and I think the covered bus stop were the only two things that we stated that we were going to do and we are going to continue to meet those minimums. So, we do not jeopardize any of our funding. Councilman Strough-So, there is going to have to be some re-engineering of the storm water flow on that parking area towards that common area and so that is going to be an expense of the general project? Councilman Brewer-Of the applicant, wouldn’t it? Supervisor Stec-No, that is our project, our Park and Ridge project. Councilman Brewer-They are not going to put any storm water on it. Supervisor Stec-No, … going to build on their ..and we are going to get to use it. So, actually.. ……. Councilman Brewer-Once we transfer this property to this piece here it becomes their baby and they have to design this to accommodate what they put here and they are going to do as well accommodate this here for us. It reduces our costs. Councilman Strough-I would think so but that was never brought out. Supervisor Stec-That is what they, that was the proposal. Councilman Boor-One of the things it is not important we discuss it with QEDC or Warren County Economic Development but should sewer come in here is the Town going to get a little money back because part of the engineer costs for the EMS was a septic field and a pretty significant. Councilman Brewer-You mean money back from? Councilman Boor-Part of the engineering costs for the EMS was a large septic field which they probably will not need now. Supervisor Stec-Informally what I have gathered, EMS has said for a year they would prefer to be on sewer, they are aware of Schermerhorn’s project down the road a little bit, they know that sewers in the neighborhood and Warren County EDC and QEDC are looking to coordinate sewering this so they would tie in. Councilman Boor-I know that, my issue does the Town get to use the additional monies that for the septic field, do they get to buy more furniture now? Supervisor Stec-I see what you are saying now, I do not know our agreement off the top of my head it was for a dollar amount and they are going to save Budget Officer Switzer-It is for a dollar amount it is not specific. 4 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 Supervisor Stec-If they are going to save money somewhere I do not think it is a huge savings but it is still money. We may save them ten or twenty thousand dollars. … Councilman Brewer-It is something that we can look into after words. Councilman Boor-It is none of their business it is something I want to make the town aware of. Councilman Strough-I talked about that with Len, it also gives them because they do not need the area for a field it gives them more area for expansion and or more parking in their particular area. Councilman Sanford-One of the things that we need to have some level of assurance on is that when the new building if it happens is built, that the Park and Ride does not become defacto over flow parking for the new project because of inadequate parking on site for the use of the tenant. What I hate to see is a public Park and Ride all of a sudden, an overflow from EMS and the new development becomes crowded when that is not the intention. Supervisor Stec-Understood. One of the things that we certainly can do is there won’t be a physical connection between the parking lots. Councilman Boor-But it is only a five foot median. Supervisor Stec-That would not prevent somebody from driving in the Park and Ride entrance and then walking. Councilman Brewer-Put a berm up. Supervisor Stec-You can prevent the vehicles from doing it but not the people. Councilman Strough-If it turns out to be an issue, we can put a fence up and then monitor it. Lets see if it becomes an issue… Councilman Boor-The way they are now is they have stickers on their windows so maybe that is going, if they have a permit, if a car is permitted and has that sticker on there and it is in the Park and Ride it is eligible for a ticket. Supervisor Stec-That is a worthy detail to worry about. Councilman Boor-Only because it is publicly funded we do not want to be putting public money for one business. Councilman Sanford-There is going to be a need for variance on parking so, Supervisor Stec-To go more. Councilman Sanford-Again, some of these businesses can’t get enough parking. Supervisor Stec-That is a glitch in our code, as that. Councilman Strough-It is a glitch because when I was doing my research for Professional Office Zoning I literally researched maybe thirty or forty other communities we were the lowest in terms of parking density allowed for Professional Office and I left it at that. Supervisor Stec-That is difficult because of shift change, you have got a real issue there. Councilman Strough-My feeling is you can always increase it I guess but we are approximately three cars per thousand of leasable floor area and a lot of other communities are about five, six even seven. 5 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 Mr. Fosbrook-You might want to consider changing that because what happens is. Councilman Strough-We are running into that with apartments too. Mr. Fosbrook-That is why everybody has to come in for a variance. Supervisor Stec-It is my understanding, the parking is the only variance. …… Councilman Sanford-…when I build a parking lot that is three times what they need. Supervisor Stec-That is why it was written that way the K-Mart situation. Mr. Fosbrook-I think there is a difference between commercial and … Councilman Sanford-I understand it is just that as we discussed this morning a possible tenant really crams their people in historically and there is never a situation where they felt they had enough parking so we want to make sure. Mr. Fosbrook-They know going in how..they project the employees it is not like retail. Supervisor Stec-They pointed it out I guess that parking requirement is awfully tight. Councilman Boor-One of the other things that we should consider as a Board is that half acre on the other side of the road, when I spoke with Len this morning I was assured that they would never do anything that didn’t get our blessing but perhaps Supervisor Stec-We would get that back, right? Councilman Boor-Well, I am thinking that we may want to and keep it as a buffer because it is a half acre which is really worthless for any size business. Supervisor Stec-Yea, I agree with that. Councilman Strough-..three hundred feet of ..this whole area. Councilman Boor-I would prefer to have it treed. Councilman Brewer-Plus the location of it. Supervisor Stec-You want it treed. Mr. Fosbrook-Remember the Northway is just Councilman Boor-Anything to make it better. Supervisor Stec-We defiantly should take it. You are right it is not buildable but we should take it. Councilman Boor-Because somebody will come in with some weird thing to do on there. Supervisor Stec-The five of us would agree not to build on it, but you are right it wouldn’t mean we wouldn’t get an argument otherwise. They indicated a strong desire to get before the Planning Board as soon as feasible, plausible. Mr. Fosbrook-I think we would like to try to announce this as soon as possible. Supervisor Stec-I asked Bob, I said, to our Attorney what do we need and he said we just need a description and it is a resolution subject to a thirty day permissive referendum, having a resolution to authorize this swap that we are talking about that half acre to us 6 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 and the acre and a half to them as laid out there, he can do that for next Monday, that would be fastest we could do it. It will start the thirty day clock. Councilman Boor-Len, some of the things that we had talked about do they need to be in at that point in time relative to if the deal falls through and that kind of stuff? Supervisor Stec-I am going to ask Bob about that. Mr. Fosbrook-I see no problem with putting some type of language in there. Supervisor Stec-There are a lot of other details that we talked about for the purpose of this transaction that is the one thing that I heard we need to do. Councilman Boor-What we can do, there is a little bit of an oddity to this one with deeds and transfers at certain times but I can appreciate that the bigger parcel would attract probably, so I am not sure that is the option that we want to exercise but it should somehow be noted. Supervisor Stec-I am going to ask Bob if the deal falls through we want the Town to keep the property Councilman Boor-Or the option, or even in an option. I do not know. Supervisor Stec-We want to have the option to keep the property and not transfer it to QEDC. Councilman Boor-I have mixed feelings. I guess my problem is I hate to see a business, we are not a Planning Board, and I hate to see a business that isn’t as nice as the one that is coming in here. Councilman Sanford-Create it as a revocable option. We are going to be granting them an option on the property and all we have to do is keep it open ended that we can have the right to revoke it perhaps under some circumstances, so if this project falls they can still hold the option, they come back to us Councilman Boor-If a sausages factory comes in there. Councilman Sanford-If they come back with something else and we are not interested in it we can revoke the option. Supervisor Stec-I think I understand the Board’s intent and I do not have a problem at all with what I understand the Board’s intent to be. I will ask Bob, I do not know I do not want to guarantee that the words revocable option are the appropriate words but I think I understand that what we are talking about is we want it worded in such way that if this project doesn’t fall through the Town has more options as opposed to fewer, we could say fine the deal is off and we are going to keep this property where it is. I do not know what the legal words are but I understand their intent and I don’t have a problem with it at all. Noted Mr. Fosbrook could tell them we are on track for a resolution a week from tonight. Mr. Fosbrook-I would like to say it is nice to work in cooperation with a Board like this, this is how we move forward and get things done in the real world of economic development. DISCUSSION NO. 2 HR CONSULTING PRESENTATION – HAMEL RESOURCES Supervisor Stec-Noted that the Town does not have an HR Department we have done contract work on and off over the years with another consultant AMTEK. We have a budget office that does the routine payroll, an Attorney’s Office that we use for routine labor relations items, we have a void in other areas. 7 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 Councilman Sanford-Introduced Ms. Hamel to the Town Board. Asked Ms. Hamel to give the Board an over view of the services that she provides. Ms. Hamel-Offered to the Town an internal physical of the HR function of the Town…reviewed the list of items that would be covered; employment applications, do people fill them out, are the practices consistent, what is the process of interviews, is it legal are the people that are doing the interviews to hire people aware of the legalities involved, do you do background checks, do you do reference checks, look at …testing, I look at what happens to a person when they are hired, I look at the employee files are there things in there that should not be in there. Are there things missing from there that should be in there, what kind of documentation do you keep, are the records being retained up to the legal standards, are the legal posters. Everything that touches the human resources legal aspects is included in this checkup that I do. Do you have training programs what are your documentation procedures, what are your termination procedures. Outlined the time it would take to do the internal physical. First Day, full day of going through everything to complete the test list. Will need access to employee files and written policies and procedures and access to a person on site for questions. It will take anywhere from two to five days to compile the findings and come back and meet with the Town Board and report on each area with recommendations and resources for the Town. Supervisor Stec-Approximately 160 full time employees, about half union. Spoke on the history of human resources in the Town of Queensbury. Councilman Brewer-Questioned the cost of the service Ms. Hamel-For this analysis, $3,000. Supervisor Stec-Questioned if Ms. Hamel has worked for municipalities before? Ms. Hamel-I am developing RFP for a municipality. Councilman Sanford-To do your audit that is where the $3,000. comes in and then on the basis of the audit this board would then decide what if any additional assignments may be appropriate and then those would be discussed with you at that time. Ms Hamel-Regarding costs of services, projects are projects based, separate items an hourly rate on internal investigations, training etc. DISCUSSION NO. 3 COUNTY LINE ROAD SEWER DISTRICT EXTENSION Dennis MacElroy, Engineer-Noted that the Town Board requested input back from the Planning Board, we have done that with sketch plan review on a fifty four acre parcel located on County Line Road, north of Hicks Road. In September ’05 there was a cluster proposal suggested there was a concern the Planning Board was not thrilled with it, we came back in June of ’06, with a another cluster design and they embraced that more so. As we approach an application to the Planning Board for site plan review I wanted to come back and get more of a response from the Town Board as far as the potential of a sewer district extension and water district extension. The recommended way to go about it is a connection to a manhole which is in the Angio Dynamics Driveway which technically is a Warren County Sewer District, it crosses the road and flows into the Washington County infrastructure no pump station, all gravity which then discharges into the Town of Queensbury pump station. Therefore it would be an extension of Queensbury Sewer District. Based on the flows here there is no problem capacity wise with the gravity sewer line which travels southerly, the Washington County line we have had discussions with them and then into the Queensbury Pump Station which also has the capacity and its discussed within the district formation report for that Queensbury Avenue Sewer District. There was capacity available for users beyond what the district was established for, for the most part the properties located within Washington and Warren IDA which ultimately flow down to Queensbury’s pump station. 8 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 Councilman Sanford-It is an awfully wet site the concept of using a sewer to justify a high density development in a wetland area is philosophically I have a problem with it to some degree. You would like to have the sewer because otherwise it is too wet to handle septic and things of that nature. I am not so sure if this Board shows too much encouragement for that kind of a thing it becomes, we are creating the logical argument to justify a project to the Planning Board that otherwise probably might not be something that they feel is advisable. Engineer MacElroy-What is the purpose of the sewer district? Councilman Sanford-I think in order for us to say that we think this is a good idea we would need to have a lot more information about that site. Drawings, test pit data etc. Councilman Strough-To me that makes no difference, what Mr. MacElroy is asking for the applicant is basically to enhance the number of residence that he could normally put on the property that he normally could not because of the high water table. My argument is we have a big question mark coming up with Luther Forest, we are on the first spear of impact we would get the secondary industrial growth of this area, no telling how much water they will need or sewer they will need we do not know. I think we have to reserve our capacity. The intent of the sewer line is to serve the industrial parks, so we have to leave that free and clear. I would hate to turn down an industry by saying guys we do not have the sewer capacity. What that says is that we have potentially a little reserve based on one analysis. Nobody knows that is just a guess. If that gets fully developed and we still had extra capacity then I would consider your proposal, with that question mark coming up I think we have to reserve for the community the full possible.. Engineer MacElroy-As I recall Ralph VanDusen reiterated what the report says is the portion of development that is expected within all the different parts of the Town of Kingsbury, Washington County, Warren County IDA is handled by in a total build out by the sewer district extension and the capacity that is available through the Town of Queensbury pump station. Councilman Strough-Nobody knows, that is one analysis. The bottom line is nobody knows what will be eventual down the road capacity of our industrial parks and the sewage usage on that line. I am not about to give up sewage use so one particular land owner can benefit by putting a few more houses on and then I threaten my industrial capacity I am not going to do that. Councilman Sanford-If you have close proximity to a sewer line you improve the site a lot, the question is I think sometimes it goes too far and creates other problems, the …of sewer you then justify going forward with projects that are perhaps unadvisable. I cannot speak specifically to this one. The sewer became the rationalization for doing something that perhaps was not in the best interest of the town, if the sewer was not available it would not have been developed that way. I think this is a troubled site. Engineer MacElroy-I think the formation of the district and the development of the industrial development that has occurred there that is why you have a sewer district so that it helps promote that. In this case it would help promote residential use which it is zoned for and which there is capacity within the formation of that district. Councilman Boor-Did you do test pits in there? Engineer MacElroy-We have done some yes. It is a heavier soil, it is an agricultural soil. Councilman Boor-How far down in the ground water? Engineer MacElroy-There are wetlands within the site and we have had those flagged and identified. Councilman Boor-You have wetlands on the site and I am not a soil engineer but that would lead me to believe that the other areas that are not wetlands are probably wetter 9 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 than typical building sites because they are adjacent to wetlands or is that not correct? Where I am going with this is, John’s point is well taken with the sewer, I am not crazy about bring water into a site like that, it is one thing to sewer it but it is another thing when you are bring town water into a wet site and these people are going to have lawns and they are going to be throwing water on top of, first of all you are going to have less permeable surfaces because of driveways and houses and then you are going to bring in Town water and they are all going to be watering their lawns. I think you are going to elevate an already high water table by bring in municipal water. Engineer MacElroy-Water is currently right to that corner lot. Councilman Boor-A water line can go right by a lake but that doesn’t mean you pump it into the lake. Councilman Sanford-I recall longer than a year ago someone wanted to subdivide it was behind Chestnut Ridge into two lots. And my understanding the Planning Board denied the subdivision of the two lots because it was too wet. Councilman Brewer-How many do you want to put in there? Engineer MacElroy-Forty clustered lots. Councilman Boor-I am not aiming this at you but I do not want to see a Hiland happening here and that is where they run their sump pumps into the sewer line. Questioned if they would have slabs or cellars? Engineer MacElroy-In some areas there would be cellars. I need to report back and give input from this meeting an understanding. Councilman Brewer-From what I am hearing it doesn’t sound like it is too good. Councilman Strough-I have not changed by position on it. I hate to set a precedent because there is a lot of owners next to you that well you give it to him why can’t we have the sewer and expand our intentions, I rather not even go there. My real reason is the pretension of the industrial park and the capacity for those parks I do not think should be jeopardized. Engineer MacElroy-Regardless of what this says or what the water and sewer department would say that opinion might not change. Councilman Strough-I have always been of the opinion that the experts are entitled to their opinion ok. Supervisor Stec-I think you have got your answer Dennis. Engineer MacElroy-Thank you. DISCUSSION NO. 4 SEPTIC SYSTEM REQUEST –LAFORTE/CUPELLI DEEP HOLE TEST REQUEST Clark Wilkinson-Representing Laforte/Cupelli–Noted test pits had been done by an engineer Jarrett Martin Engineering on December 6, 2005, who at that time was not on the list of acceptable engineers for test pits out of season…further noted that other test pits have been done but not done during the acceptable season…requesting approval for the test pit out of season. Location of site five lots up from the North Queensbury Fire Department on the same side of the road… Town Board decision that Mr. Wilkinson will be notified as soon as the Town has selected an interim engineer to oversee the deep hole testing done at the sites. 10 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 DISCUSSION NO. 5 SEPTIC SYSTEM – COULTER Engineer Dennis MacElroy-Coulter, Seeley Road - Remove existing structure and construct a new residences, based on the location of the proposed home and the existing system we are suggesting a new in ground system be installed. (showed plans) no variances involved…just need out of season test pit confirmation. Discussion held questioned raised regarding the 200’ for new construction on a fill system..100’ for an in ground system … …application may have to be made to the Health Department…system has not failed…not a hardship… will be researched and let you know from the Supervisor or Councilman Boor if a variance will be needed. Town Board decision that Mr. MacElroy will be notified as soon as the Town has selected an interim engineer to oversee the deep hole testing done at the Seeley Road site. Engineer MacElroy-A wastewater disposal permit normally get submitted down stairs, what is going to happen with those? Councilman Boor-They will come to the Town Board and then to Barton and Loguidice until we have an engineer. (Gave EPA publication to Board regarding Management Districts) DISCUSSION NO. 6 RT. 9/254 DISPLAY SETBACKS Supervisor Stec-We want to measure from the white line we want existing site plans to trump what we are doing so if something that has already been approved that, that is ok. We have agreed on a number fifty, we all want to find a mechanism that will allow transient merchant or special, temporary sales to be allowed to go forward. Councilman Strough-Have the code written to allow exemptions. Sr. Planner Baker-the current draft exempts special sales under Chapters 160 and 161 from this requirement. Supervisor Stec-We need to document where the asphalt is today. Councilman Sanford-In the proposal you talk about when the law will take effect within ninety days after adopted, we may want to provide a ninety day window of time and notify the people who are not in compliance give them an opportunity to make application for site plan approval. Board agreed to go with draft proposal. Councilman Brewer-Requested that those that the Town knows would be in violation with the proposed change should be notified by the Town. Sr. Planner Baker-Those that have a pre-existing site plan approved use of an out door display within the fifty feet will be grandfathered. You want everyone in the proposed overlay district notified. Board agreed. Board agreed to have the PORC Attorney review and input on this proposal first, and then pass it onto the PORC Committee. DISCUSSION NO. 7 SUGGESTIONS FOR PROJECT ENGINEER-CERTIFICATION OF AS BUILT SITE PLAN Sr. Planner Baker-Craig Brown has sent a memo to the Bob Vollaro stating administratively we have got a huge load following up on each site plan at taxpayers expense because we do not incorporate the follow up costs of tracking the progress of all the site plans, suggested that the Planning Board in their approvals can say it is the responsibility of your project engineer to make sure that this project is constructed as designed. The Town is ultimately responsible for making sure it is done but the primary responsibility rests with the own applicants own design professionals. Councilman Boor- Questioned how design changes would be caught if we are going to the sites less often. 11 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 Sr. Planner Baker-We would still be going out but the primary responsibility on the design professional and developer. Councilman Sanford- Suggest that a memo be sent to the Planning Board via Bob Vollaro and carbon to the Planning Board encourage the moving forward with this process, that you get a stamp of approval from the engineer based on the discretion of the Planning Board to utilize it when they feel appropriate. Supervisor Stec-Noted he felt that should be done thorough a resolution. Town Board agreed. DISCUSSION NO. 8 ADDIONAL MEMBERS FOR PORC Supervisor Stec-Noted there is a list of the frequent people that have attended, everyone has been called on that list including the PORC Members, three of the PORC members said they would be willing to continue, the other member has not resigned as of yet, recognizing that we want people that know what they are doing, are committed to the process, preferably that may have board spectrum of perspective and of all the people that were called only four people on the list said yes if they were asked to be on PORC they would serve. I am suggesting that we pass a resolution at the next Board Meeting to appoint those four to the PORC Committee. Councilman Sanford-Suggested that Councilman Strough serve on this committee. Town Board agreed. DISCUSSION NO. 9 COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT POSITION Supervisor Stec-Friday was the cut off date for the submissions to the position of Community Development Director (list of 12) Town Board and Sr. Planner Baker, review the twelve applicants, and rank the top six, then have a committee of two Board Members and other members if necessary do the initial interview that Committee come up with a list of two, three, four top candidates to do a second interview with. E-mail your initial list of six names ranked to me or Leesa. DISCUSSION NO. 9 CRANDALL LIBRARY BUDET PROPOSITION LANGUAGE Councilman Sanford-Noted he had read the memo from Town Counsel, I have not changed by opinion, I believe it is in fact it is their proposal but it our resolution and if we are going to rubber stamp anything that comes to us our resolutions should state the Town Board as absolutely nothing to do with this what so ever we are just a rubber stamp as a whereas. I do not believe that is really the intention I believe we have an obligation a responsibility. Suggested on add on which would state the amount and represents a nine point one four percent increase over the 2006 level which was eight hundred and eleven thousand one eighty six. Another thing to consider the Town Board has an obligation to properly inform the voting public in order for them to make an appropriate decision. This isn’t about the library it is about as I mentioned before I felt the same way about the service award for the firemen the way in which these have been going forth does not give anybody enough information to understand what the issue is or the significance is. From 2005 to 2006 the library increase was greater than 13% this years the proposed amount is 9.14% I think the voters need to know that. The Queensbury’s percent of contribution between the three municipalities is fifty five percent for Queensbury, Glens Falls twenty five percent, Moreau at twenty percent. I do not know if this formula that is being utilized is carved in stone but the trend is working not necessarily to the best advantage of Queensbury. By stating the rate of increase that Queensbury is experiencing gives the voter the basis of indexing the increase where if you just say eight hundred and eighty five thousand three hundred and fifty six dollars shall it be approved, the normal person who walks into the voting booth isn’t going to have a clue what that means. Supervisor Stec-As Town Counsel has verbally characterized it to me is that the State Law that legislates this says it has to be on the ballot and it does not spell out how it should get there or what our authority or responsibilities are whether we are simply a pass 12 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 through or rubber stamp or if we truly have control over the language of this. Bob did have contact with the library Attorney and the Library Attorney has said we want the language as we gave it to you. Library Trustee Richard Merrill-The budget process is very open, there is nothing to be hidden. The library district was established as a separate entity is it not under the jurisdiction of the Town. It is an entity that is supported by three towns so Queensbury cannot dictate what the Library District does anymore than you can dictate what a School Board does. I am the Chairman of the Board of Trustees and I have reviewed this with our Attorneys too. In 1992 the District was established it is independent of the Town of Queensbury, you do not dictate to the Library what to do any more than you do to the School Board. As part of this it says the Board shall file annually with the Clerk of each municipality an estimate of the proposed Budget, which we have done. This municipality shall not make any change in the estimate of revenues of expenditures. Which means you cannot change numbers, but you haven’t, what you are trying to do is to provide more information. I have basically no problem with that, except what you are acting on is a resolution that was passed by the Crandall Library Board. You do not have authority to go in and change one of our resolutions. Councilman Boor-We are not, it is our resolution. We are not changing we are adding to it. Trustee Merrill-That is changing it. We are playing with three municipalities here, to do this correctly we the Trustees would have to go back and pass a new resolution with the new wording in it. Councilman Boor-I do not think you do but that is your call. Trustee Merrill-Reviewed for the Board the upcoming public hearing on the Library th Budget on October 10, noticed in the paper, there is a published report. Councilman Sanford-Your public hearing is not going to attract all the voters of Queensbury with all due respect. People walking to the ballot and they read something like this will have pretty much what you are saying but they will have a little more information and understand how it is different than what existed the prior year. Councilman Boor-We do it with School Budgets. Trustee Merrill-We have followed the format we have used in the past. Now at the eleventh hour Councilman Boor-We just got this, we acted very quickly on it. Councilman Sanford-We got this last week, you gave it to us at the eleventh hour. Trustte Merrill-The Town is a conduit for putting this on .. Councilman Sanford-The resolution doesn’t state it and in fact the legal opinion from our Counsel who we have to look to, the way the voters will be able to vote for the library district is for each municipality to place the library districts budget proposal on the ballot by passing a resolution, be it the Town Board such as the one that we passed on Monday which gave flexibility and then he goes on and despite the fact that they tend not to want to give policy he speaks in terms of policy in terms of …the statue does not provide the details of the process for the library district to get from the point where it creates its budget which must be voted on by the voters of Queensbury, Glens Falls and Moreau. Which is clearly stated to how the library budget proposition is placed on each municipalities. In other words the law does not state that. Then it goes, what if we didn’t vote to put it on the ballot and he does not have an answer for what that means. Then he goes on that their answer would be that it’s the Town Board’s resolution and you include such information as you deed appropriate we feel that this is the Library’s District Proposition and that the Town Board is the method by which you are fulfill the districts statutory requirements. So, I will respectfully say to you it is our resolution it is your 13 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 proposition. I feel that we have an obligation a fiduciary responsibility to properly inform the people within Queensbury. Trustee Merrill-Where do you deviate from the letter there? Councilman Sanford-It is the Town Board’s resolution and you can include such information as you deem appropriate. That is the end of my quote from Mr. Hafner. Councilman Boor-We are not changing yours we are putting additional information in. Trustee Merrill-It is our resolution. Supervisor Stec-Read the following; Similarly in this case while our typical answer would be that it is the Town Boards resolution and you can include such information as you deem appropriate we feel that this is the library district proposition and the Town Boards resolution is merely the method by which you fulfill the library district statutory requirements that Queensbury voters get to vote on the library district budget proposition. The way I interpret that, you word the proposition if we want to include in our resolution that this is a 9.14% increase that is our business but the language that shows up on the ballot is what you give us. We can pass another resolution to say Whereas the Town Board has no authority to change this and Whereas, this does reflec a 9.14% increase now Therefore be it Resolved, here is the proposition and it is their proposition. This does not say that we can re-word their proposition. Councilman Boor-We are not re-wording Councilman Brewer-You are. Councilman Sanford-I want Bob Hafner to answer a very direct specific question, if the Town Board wants this in independent on the pleasure of the library legal can we do it yes or no. Trustee Merrill-If that is the case then the Town is usurping Library Authority. Councilman Boor-Why don’t you want Trustee Merrill-It is our proposition. Councilman Boor-We are not changing your budget Councilman Brewer-You are changing the proposed proposition. Councilman Sanford-We are not. Councilman Brewer-If we add to something we are changing it. Councilman Boor-We are not changing the proposition we are going Councilman Brewer-We are not changing the budget we are changing the proposition. Councilman Boor-No we are not. Supervisor Stec-If it is not the same we have changed it. Councilman Brewer-If those lines you don’t draw three lines exactly the same underneath it then it is not the same. Councilman Sanford-If the library came in and said we want our budget approved how do you vote on this without giving any number at all would we feel comfortable with that? Unknown-No 14 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 Councilman Brewer-They gave us the number Richard. Councilman Sanford-What if you had a ten percent decrease would you want that in the resolution if your fee from eight hundred and eleven to seven hundred and fifty thousand, I am not trying to tell the voters how to vote, I feel that you have an obligation as we have an obligation to put this forth in a way that an intelligent decision can be made. …I cannot understand why you would not want to do this except perhaps you do not want the voting public to realize that you are going for a nine point one four percent increase. Trustee Merrill-And that is not the case. Councilman Boor-Why do you have a problem with it? Trustee Merrill-Because I am talking legal technicality here, we passed a resolution we passed a proposition worded this way, you are changing it. Councilman Boor-We do not have to vote on it at all, we don’t even have to put it to the voters. Trustee Merrill-To do that we should go back as a Board and say ok, this is what the Town .. Councilman Boor-Why don’t you do that. Trustee Merrill-Because time has run out and the City of Glens Falls we should do the same thing and Moreau. Councilman Boor-Dick I am disappointed, I am very disappointed. I am disappointed because I can understand honesty and why you would not want the public to be informed. Trustee Merrill-They are to be informed Councilman Boor-Why can’t they know that this represents a 9.14% why can’t they be informed of that Dick. Trustee Merrill-I am talking about the process in which you are doing it, your usurping power which you cannot do. Supervisor Stec-Let me ask this, and this might not satisfy the Board tonight for this year, but let me ask this, maybe there is forward progress to be made. Set aside this year for an instant, if we said Dick eleventh hour our fault your fault whatever with the way we have done it in the past all that aside if we said tonight its important to this Board that in the future, not only should it reflect the dollar amount but the percent change, 1. would you bring that back to the library board and 2. Do you feel that they would grant that going forward if the time crunch that we are experiencing right now was not an issue Trustee Merril-I would have no problem to do it. Councilman Sanford-At the next public meeting the one on television, we will do the resolution from the floor, saying Supervisor Stec-You do not have to do it from the floor, draft it and Councilman Boor-We will put them both out there and we will let the voters. Supervisor Stec-You do not have to do it from the floor, if you want a resolution on for next Monday night fine put it in the regular method. We passed one, we will have a new one that rescinds the old one and it if passes it passes. What I am saying if you are hanging your hat on that one sentence my grammar education at Queensbury High School says that you are reading that wrong, what Bob is saying is it is our resolution but the wording of the proposition is theirs. 15 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 Councilman Boor-The simple solution is we want a yes or no answer from the Attorney we do not want a lot of gray area so can we add that or can we not. Councilman Sanford-Any responsible organization would want to inform the ..on what they are voting. Councilman Boor-It is very irresponsible. … Councilman Sanford-Your public hearing on the IDA financing you wouldn’t even answer questions at that meeting and you did not attend I don’t believe maybe you did attend, there were very good questions posed and the lawyer representing said I am only here to take the questions we are not answering any of them. I did not think that was good either. Trustee Merrill-I was not there. Councilman Boor-Don’t paint this image of something that it isn’t. Trustee Merrill-We have no problem in at all with sharing the numbers the problem we have is the method by which you are doing it and do you have authority to do it I think that is the question to put to Bob Hafner. Councilman Boor-We have the authority to add language not change, to add language. Supervisor Stec-I want to summarize, that is my preferred wording if it was left to me and my call that is the wording I like going forward I would much prefer to see that language, but I understand your point is now, because Queensbury isn’t the only player in this table that it is too late to make the same change with Moreau and Glens Falls that is what you said and I understand that. So, I do not know where that will lead us but the sentence you are hanging your hat on I read that we can make the resolution say whatever we want but we cannot change the proposition. Councilman Sanford-With all due respect that Glens Falls might have a different wording of their resolution on their ballot or Moreau it is probably not at all relevant to what we have on ours and I believe that Bob Hafner if he is presented with this question in a direct way instead of writing two pages he is going to have to say yes you can do this. Supervisor Stec-He says it is their proposition and our resolution we can make the resolution say whatever we want but it is their proposition, I do not think we can change that and I think an additional language is a change. Make no mistake I like what you wrote I agree with that… Councilman Sanford-Noted he will send an e-mail to Bob Hafner and ask for a direct answer. Trustee Merrill-I am very sensitive to the Budget and I do not have a problem of putting that in but can you do it this year and it has to be the Library Board that decides to do that. I want the legal interpretation from you… Supervisor Stec-the path of least resistance is to try to get the Library on board quickly to say lets allow this change and ask the other two if you feel the other two need to follow… I understand that you are tying to say the format should be consistent from municipality to municipality. Trustee Merrill-It has to be. Supervisor Stec-If you change it for Queensbury now we need to get it change in Moreau and Glens Falls that might be a hassle, but if you have two to three weeks to do it then I think that is the path of least resistance. If I was writing that proposition I would include the 9.14. 16 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 Trustee Merrill-As it stands now this is the way we prepared it this is the way we submitted it. DISCUSSION NO. 10 Councilman Strough-1. Sign – State Champions – signs at $200.ea. Location of sign southeast corner of the School Property and Main Street Gateway Park …Board agreed to two signs…will contact Highway on sign color yellow on blue or blue on yellow… 2.Spoke about Fire Company Vehicles purchased, developing a new form on usage etc. of existing vehicles. Need to share this with the Fire Department and get feed back and eventually adopt something like this. Councilman Sanford-So. Queensbury wants to talk about their truck again, do we have a schedule established on fire company budgets? Supervisor Stec-No, not as of yet. Reviewed the budget process and the upcoming meetings for hiring of Engineering Firm, Town Counsel Firm etc. Councilman Sanford-Requested to meet with each fire company face to face and give them an answer on their budget in front of them. On South Queensbury I will tell them we are not prepared to talk about the truck at this time. Councilman Strough-Suggest a moratorium until we get the evaluation done of the trucks. Councilman Sanford-Received a call, regarding the sewer line on Bay Road, Baybridge Residents are having a hard time getting in and out, Walker Lane is a problem,… Supervisor Stec-Noted he will give them a call tomorrow requesting a flagman out there. Re: Frank Kelly – no bonding required as per Town Board Councilman Sanford-Re: Streeter Auto Shop –Sidewalk requested decision of Town Board - Councilman Brewer-Noted there may be requirement because the Boulevard is a County road… Supervisor Stec-Requested that Councilman Sanford and Brewer coordinate that. Councilman Boor-Re: Macchio Noted he was in Court last week, by the end of the week we should get three recommendations, we will have to have an executive session at that point in time. Supervisor Stec-Tomorrow night we have a special workshop on the Comprehensive thnd Land Use Plan. Noted that the 25 and the 2 are Regular Town Board Meetings. May ndth need a special workshop between the 2 and the 9 on where we are going for Fire and EMS budgets. By the end of the week will get everything we have and the spread sheets for the fire companies to the Town Board Members. Councilman Brewer-The lighting districts need to be changed…need light on Peggy Ann Road…will ask Highway Supt. for safety purposes to place a light RESOLUTION ADJOURNING TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 442.2006 INTROUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Richard Sanford 17 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-18-2006 MTG. #36 RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Special Town Board Meeting. th Duly adopted this 18 day of September, 2006 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: None Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury