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1998-01-05 REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING JANUARY 5, 1998 7:00 p.m. MTG. #2 RES. 25-31 B.O.H. 1-2 TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR FRED CHAMPAGNE COUNCILMAN RICHARD MERRILL COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN DOUGLAS IRISH COUNCILMAN PLINEY TUCKER TOWN COUNSEL MARK SCHACHNER DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT JOHN GORALSKI TOWN CONTROLLER-HENRY HESS PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Opened the meeting .... RESOLUTION CALLING FOR QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH RESOLUTION NO. 25. 98 INTRODUCED BY: MR. THEODORE TURNER WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: MR. RICHARD MERRILL RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into the Queensbury Board of Health. Duly adopted this 5th day of January, 1998, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Merrill, Mr. Turner, Mr. Irish, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Champagne NOES: None ABSENT: None PUBLIC HEARING SANITARY SEW AGE DISPOSAL VARIANCE-JOHN AND KATHLEEN A. SALVADORE NOTICE SHOWN SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Opened the Public Hearing anyone here to speak other than John? Hearing none, you are more than welcome. Do you need that whole brief case John? MR. JOHN SALVADOR-And then some, I left half of it home. MRS. KATHLEEN SAL V ADORE-I did not have time to type it all. MR. SALVADOR-Would you like a drawing up on the? Good evening gentlemen of the board. I would like to before I make this small presentation I have prepared here tonight I would like to request one thing of the board and that is that you allow the public hearing to remain open until you are ready to vote. You have heard me make this request before, I think is grossly unfair to the public that they are locked out of any comment as a result of your deliberations. I believe that the public hearing should be left open until you have done your deliberating answered all the questions when you are ready to vote, close the public hearing. I would like that consideration. Am I correct that the Town's public health officer is not present at this time? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That is correct. MR. SALVADOR - Was he noticed, notified of this meeting in any special way? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-No, the procedure is not to notify him under those circumstances, never had and did not do it for this one. MR. SALVADOR-Does his contract call for such participation, consultation on these public health issues? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-For each individual variance that is being requested, no. Where ever there is a problem obviously he is called in for consultation. MR. SAL V ADOR-I understand he works on retainer? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That is correct. MR. SALVADOR - I just wonder what we are paying for as taxpayers? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-John, we have a public hearing and we are here to listen to your presentation. If you have a problem with that and you want to give me a call come on into my office and we will discuss it. MR. SALVADOR-For the record he is not present. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-For the record he is not present. MR. SALVADOR-My wife and I are here this evening to speak on our own behalf seeing the first of those variances which might ultimately be required to develop our waterfront lands knows as tax parcel 4-1-11. That is essentially the land north of Route 9L shown on that map there. These lands are currently zoned water front residential one acre. All the present uses on this tax parcel are recognized as non conforming, even though all of those uses, predate the zoning in the Town of Queensbury. This board including even those of you most recently sworn in to office cannot help but be familiar with our sincere efforts to obtain a building permit which would allow us to erect in accordance with uniform building code of the state of three hundred square foot hunting and fishing cabin on this same residentially zoned lot. While that permitting process is now mired in the New York State Supreme Court System over a minor technicality we have lately come to realize that maybe a more conventional approach to the residential development of these lands might prove more successful. By conventional we mean development only of those lands above the mean high water mark. Providing that we can obtain this variance from section 136-11 of the code of the Town of Queensbury . SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-John can I stop you there, if you do not mind ifIjump in here, is what I am hearing then if in fact in Supreme Court we are overruled and you get approval to build a cabin would this continue to be built or would you build a cabin and this or would you build one or the other or both? What.. . MR. SALVADOR-Any decision of the Supreme Court will not allow the cabin to be built. The Supreme Court is wrestling with the determination of the vocation of the property boundary. The issue there. TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-While we are on this topic could I just interject for just a moment? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Please do. TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-As your counsel I think that and especially for the benefit of the new board members I think it is only appropriate to point out for the record despite the applicants statement the current status of this matter is that the Zoning Board of Appeals has denied the applicants request and what Mr. Salvador referred to as mired in Supreme Court on a technicality and undergoing Supreme Court review in reality there is been a Supreme Court decision upholding the Town's Zoning Board of Appeals III adverse to Mr. Salvador. I just wanted to make sure that record is clear and that the Board knows this. MR. SALVADOR-And that decision is on appeal, I can assure you of that. Ok. Providing that we can obtain this variance from section 136-11 of the code of the Town of Queensbury which deals with on site sewage disposal systems and more specifically holding tanks, these lands will be a giant step closer to actually supporting residential development. It was by mere chance that we attended the Town Board meeting of October 20th 1997 at this meeting we observed first hand the implementation of a novel approach by sponsors of a residential remodeling project who also seek to enjoy and enhance to the fullest their one point five acre water front property on Lake George. We are referring of course to the application of Philip and Susan Morse for an alternative septic system to support a major renovation of their residence on Assembly Point also a one acre water front residential zone. I can tell you frankly what was previously considered was the insurmountable problems in handling of on site wastewater treatment were quickly put aside in that application. A new and novel approach was unveiled on site subsurface holding tanks for continuous year round residential use. We believe our residential development project can proceed on the coat tails of the Morris's thirteen thousand six hundred and eighty seven square foot residential renovation. The thirteen thousand six hundred and eighty seven square foot does not include the area of two garages which themselves add up to twelve hundred and forty square feet. What we are saying is that the Morris application can traverse if the Morris application can traverse the regulatory maze of the Town of Queensbury the DOH, the DEC and the APA so can we. We will vigorously claim our equal protection rights. Starting in November of 1995 our very first building permit application for the three hundred square foot hunting and fishing cabin on this same tax parcel was denied in spite of being equipped with a specially designed state of the art holding tank. Really just an alternative septic system. The proposed installation was deemed to be incompatible with one of the allowable residential uses that is a single family dwelling unit on our three acre water front parcel. Rather than seek a variance from the zoning administrator interpretation and determination we set work and completely re-designed the three hundred square foot structure. You can imagine the constraints with only three hundred square feet of area to work with, never the less we were able to submit a revised design changing the interior character of the Hunting and Fishing Cabin which precluded the use of two one hundred gallon holding tanks. It is important to remember that, that original design had a total of two hundred gallons of holding tank capacity we will come back to that. Let us begin with the Town Board meeting of October 20th 1997 with the Town Board function as the Local Board of Health. A previously announced public hearing was conducted that evening concerning the application for a variance from Part 136 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury as it pertains to residential septic system and particularly the use of an alternate waste water treatment system. An alternate waste water treatment system was deemed to facilitate the enhancement of practically all aspects of the planned thirteen thousand six hundred and eighty seven square foot residential renovation. The alternate system turned out to be a holding tank. We want to take a few minutes to bring this variance application and its approval into focus. We had need to rely on the interpretations the considerations and the thought process which the previous Local Board of Health employed to justified the approval of the Morris Application. We are confident that is we can patiently follow the same step by step procedure used by those advising the Morris's we too will be able to realize my wife life long dreams her own house. The Town of Queensbury's Local Board of Health is bound by the rules and regulations instituted by the Town Board these rules and regulations pertaining to your granting of a variance from that septic ordinance and they are listed in there. I have taken time to review the hearing recording covering both the Local Board of Health and the Zoning Board of Appeals. According to testimony given before these Boards I conclude that a conventional septic system was in fact technically feasible in spite of the magnitude of the major renovation on a one point five acre lot. I have a list of there comments so I do not have to repeat them unless you had need. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-No, that is fine John, you do not need to go through those. MR. SALVADOR-But, in any case there is sufficient evidence that a conventional system could have been built. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That is in your opinion John obviously. That is not in the opinion of those who checked out. MR. SAL V ADOR-I compared the statements made with Code. The statements those people made in those meetings, they are on your record with the Code requirements if there statements are true there is no reason they could not have built an on site system. We are seeking a variance from 136-11 because we feel it is not possible for us to construct on this parcel a conventional on site septic system. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Because of expense, John? MR. SALVADOR-Huh? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Because of expense? MR. SALVADOR -No, there are a number of reasons, according to the Queensbury Code we would be precluded from locating a conventional system on this site because we would need generally one hundred foot set back from a water body and in the case of Lake George it is one thousand foot set back. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-What is your MR. SALVADOR - We do not have a thousand foot set back. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-But you are pumping it off site any ways. MR. SAL V ADOR-No..the first demonstration we have to make and that we would be required to do is to locate an code and up to standard on site waste water treatment facility on the parcel on which the development is SUPERVISOR CHAMP AGNE-I understand you. MR. SAL V ADOR-I cannot do that I am saying for one reason we cannot meet setbacks, Town Code, the second reason we cannot meet separation distances requires a minimum of three feet of the usable soil within a thousand feet of Lake George. We do not have three feet of usable soil anywhere on that parcel. There is a requirement in the Queensbury Code for surface water diversion. I think what you are supposed to do is keep surface water away from your septic system, you know, some how. Frankly anyplace on that parcel that's not being used for a building right now is storm water drainage from route 9L there is sheet drainage right across the road, right across that land. There is no ditches no nothing, its right across the road. So, we would have great difficulty in diverting whatever you call surface water in that area. There is a requirement in the Queensbury Code that the soils be usable. The soils are only usable if they perk at less than sixty minutes per inch, and that is only soil that would be above the high seasonal ground water. So, usable soil has two definitions, it has to perk at a certain rate and it must be above the high seasonal ground water. High seasonal ground water on this site is about six inches above the Lake level. That is flood stage. And of course all of this has a further constraint within a thousand feet of Lake George and none of that is within, is outside of a thousand feet of Lake George. We have a high seasonal ground water problem, I do not think that needs a lot of explanation. If we were to locate a conventional on site waste water treatment system on this site we would be within the Lake George Park Commission Critical Environmental Area. It is not likely that a conventional system would be permitted in that area even if we could meet their requirements. The, I will come to a DEC requirement shortly that ties the Park Commission and DEC together. Alternate systems that are recognized in the Town Code 136-10 are only fill systems. The only alternative system you allow is a fill system and that is not allowed within two hundred feet of Lake George. So, from a conventional system to an alternate system that could be approved when you cannot meet the conventional system requirements that does not give us any relief what so ever. So, that the restrictions in the sanitary ordinance deny us reasonable use of the land. There could be no question. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I do not think there is any question about that, John. We know you are going to go off site, that is a given. We came in with that in mind. MR. SALVADOR-Ok. Now, we could we could go to an on site, we could ask for the relief of an on site holding tank we could take the route that the Morris's took, an on site holding tank. That is precluded by a Queensbury ordinance I think it is Section COUNCILMAN IRISH-John have you done a perk test on that yet on the property? MR. SALVADOR - We have done perk tests in area on that property many times better than that O'Brien and Gere have done some testing in the area that we are going to be talking about. I will tell you something the first shovel full, the next shovel full of good soil that lover turn on that property will be the first. Ok. All of our septic systems, we had eight on site waste water treatment facilities every one of them the soils have been trucked in , every one. If we could not have built a fill system or a mound system we could not have done it and meet the code. So, on this site where this development is taking place however we are precluded from putting a holding tank in because your regulations require most recent regulations require that the holding tanks be below grade, below existing grade. An existing grade in your Code here say the natural topography of the land prior to construction activity. Now, I do not know when, I can tell you that construction activity started on this parcel probably back in 1946 when the property was converted to from a residence to a resort and I can tell you most of the land we are talking about was underwater at that time even the land that is high and dry now. I have photographs that I could show you, but in any case we cannot locate a holding tank below existing grade without having it in the water and that doesn't work. So, we have, there is just no avenue of relief for us so far on this parcel. With regard to holding tanks the DEC has prepared a design manual for waste water treatment works in the Lake George basin and they say with regard to holding tanks, holding tanks will not be allowed for year around usage on a permanent basis. Period. Now, we are planning a year around development here and so we could not meet the DEC the DEC would never permit a holding tank in accordance with their design manual. The New York State Dept. of Health has a regulation and they we got into this discussion on the Morris application, the Department of Health permits alternative systems. They also speak to other systems other system include holding tanks, alternate systems does not including tanks. The Public Health Code says this about holding tanks, Holding tanks are not acceptable for long term use on year around residences. So, we could not even if you granted us for some reason a variance to put a holding tank on this parcel of land we could not meet those two requirements that we get other permits that might be necessary. Ok. So, now, we are fortunate we have land available in the area and we can at a little bit of expense we can locate a holding tank someplace near by an adjacent it is not adjacent, at one time it was until the county appropriated land for the road, but we show here this location (used map) what we proposed, Alexy Lane here and .. . here we would like to locate a holding tank there. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-John what is the acreage on that? MR. SALVADOR-On which lands? COUNCILMAN MERRILL-The adjourning property? MR. SALVADOR-Here? COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Yea. MR. SAL V ADOR- The tax map says something about one hundred and forty. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-One hundred and forty acres, ok. MR. SALVADOR-Again, we worked to try to locate a conventional system on this parcel, I think I told you before we just cannot do it. We do not have the requirements for high seasonal ground water we do not have the soils, the quality of the soils. I have O'Brien and Gere's soils reports here that they, the samples they took on our land. MR. MERRILL-Is that, are you referring to lot 11 the water front property? MR. SALVADOR-No MR. MERRILL-Or the one hundred and forty acres? MR. SALVADOR-The one hundred and forty acres. They had a test boring, the closest one is boring number one I suspect it is probably maybe four hundred feet from there, they had two feet of cover over bed rock. The high seasonal ground water is essentially at grade you might have a few inches of top soil so to speak. Fred has heard me say many times that after heavy, heavy rain storms I go out in the woods and I dig holes and see what kind of absorption we have from a rain storm and you know six inches under the ground is powder. This soil does not perk. Frankly the soils were not meant to support residential development. I will be honest with you, that is why these codes are written. But, in any case we have now a capability of getting a variance for a holding tank. I would, I am just saying to make a long story short, I think we have more hardship in the quality of the soil the depth to bed rock, more hardship than the Morris's had according to what they stated, I have read the record. In the same residential water front residential neighborhood I believe if they can make it we can make it. Now, we still have to get by the Department of Health and the DEC. But, as I said if they can make it we can make it. So we would ask you tonight to make a long story short to grant us a variance from the requirements of one thirty six eleven and allow us to install a holding tank in accordance with the Town's specifications, requirements for holding tanks as located on this parcel. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Would you be proposing to merge the properties or to file an easement? Obviously, if you built the properties could be separated at some future point and you would be left without access to the MR. SAL V ADOR-A lot of things can happen between now and then if that ever comes to be and there is a strong likely hood that someday there would be a subdivision of the land north of the road from the land south of the road. In the event that the North Queensbury Warren County Sewer project ever comes to fruition we could simply tie in it would go right by the door. This may never be built, this may never be built if that happens first. That is a possibility a strong possibility. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-John, from going back to the conventional systems or non conventional I guess, do you feel that a holding tank would be more conducive, less expensive than a mound system? MR. SALVADOR-Absolutely. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Over the course of time of having to be pumped out on a regular basis? MR. SALVADOR-It is the ultimate escape hatch I mean, frankly, I do not see how if you want to bear with me I do not see how you can grant these variances if you answer the hard questions that are asked in your sanitary ordinance about how you go about granting variances. It was not public policy to allow this to happen I can guarantee you not when you see it in the DEC Code and you see it in the Health Dept. Code no holding tanks. The idea is that we are not supposed to this land for residential development. that is the idea, and that has been forgotten in what we do here in recent years. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-John are you here to win approval or win disapproval? I am questioning your? MR. SALVADOR-No. Iamjustlayingitout. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I understand it all. Ok does that kind of rap it up? MR. SAL V ADOR-Ifyou have any questions I will be glad to? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-How about anyone for the audience here tonight to speak against this request for a variance? MR. ABESS-What kind of development are you talking about, a variance for what? MR. SAL V ADOR-A residential dwelling of twelve thousand three hundred twenty square feet located where that cross hatch line is. MR. ABESS-One residence or a development? MR. SALVADOR-One single family dwelling. By the way this is becoming the standard in our neighborhood. UNKNOWN-Does this also have to go to DEC and the Department of Health? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-My understanding is yes. MR. SALVADOR-The resolution that you pass for the Morris's require the Department of Health. It did not make any mention of DEC. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Do we send that back to Lake George Planning Board? Did that go back to Lake George Planning Board? I am sorry, Warren County Planning Board did they take a look at that proposal? TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-No, these do not go to the Warren County Planning Board. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Well not know they don't. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Why would John's go back, where will John's go from here? DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT GORALSKI-Mr. Slavador has several Zoning Variances. COUNCILMAN IRISH-But he does not have to go anywhere for another septic variance? DIRECTOR GORALSKI-As far as the septic variance, usually the typical resolution, does this resolution written that they would have to get Health Dept. approval? TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-Yes, it is in the prepared resolution. MR. SAL V ADOR-I believe at least I wouldn't take a chance on moving ahead with the definitive design on the project like this without touching base with DEC there is no way I would do it , it is clear to me but. You should, you have to bear with me. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Is that the way you want the resolution worded? MR. SALVADOR-It is your resolution, I know what I have to do I am bound to get all the permits..you cannot protect me from that. You know this DEC thing has come up you know where the DEC gets their right to do this, these are the design standards for waste water treatment works in the Lake George basin, ok, A piece of legislation was enacted in 1987 it is called the Park Commission bill and in the Park Commission bill as they gave the Park Commission the power to promulgate waste water regulations they for some reason or other they wanted the DEC looking over their shoulder. Remember the DEC was the parent company of the park commission I am not so sure it is any longer. In any case this is what it says in this bill. The commissioner shall the commissioner being DEC commissioner, prepare a technical manual describing the past technologies the best technologies available for sewage disposal facilities within the Lake George basin. Which shall include but not be limited to specifications for the design, construction, maintenance and monitoring of such facilities and performance standards for nutrient removal. The commissioner shall complete the manual within eighteen months of this effective date of this subdivision and shall notice completion of the manual in the State Registrar and the Environmental Notice Bulletin. The, it is interesting this was, this has a date of July 1989 on it, prohibiting holding tanks, prohibiting holding tanks and we have a sanitary ordinance that has change to it dated July 9th 1989 allowing holding tanks. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Ok, hearing any other comments from the audience, I guess it is back to the Board, do we have any further questions? COUNCILMAN MERRILL-John mentioned some general problems with the land there do you have specific circumstances or conditions, perk tests or anything that you can enter into the record as to why you cannot put a conventional system there? MR. SALVADOR - Well, just looking at the design requirements for conventional system, we would need a lot of land and COUNCILMAN MERRILL-You have one hundred and forty acres you are bringing it nine hundred feet there is some flexibility there. MR. SALVADOR - Well this is what, first of all a conventional system will not work. It has got to be a mound system and a mound system is not allowed in your ordinance you only allow a fill system. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-It will not work based on what? Perk tests, have you run ... MR. SALVADOR-High ground water, high ground water, shallow depth to bed rock. That area is the highest area in that area, that's if you the land to the south slopes down again, that is about the highest point of the whole area where that septic tank is and it is naturally shallow, shallowest to bed rock. So, it has all been graded and leveled and but, when you think about why you do not want to disturb the land that would be required for a fill system. You remember Clough Harbor a forty acre grassy knoll SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Fill what six feet or four feet, I guess it was four feet that what it was typically. MR. SALVADOR-That is disturbing a lot of natural soil. O'Brien and Gere is now talking about the fact that, that one hundred and thirty, forty acre parcel can only support sixty five thousand gallons a day and that is spray irrigation that is not infiltration. The DEC today says that land cannot take infiltration. I do not know if you realize it you know we all think septic tanks work by, septic system work by water percolating down that is not the way they work. Capillary action brings the water up that is why the grass is green. It is that nutrient loading in the water, very little of it goes down. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-OK. MR. SALVADOR-But, Betty Monahan said it all in the hearing that night on the Morris application she said I think the choice my choice is whether or not we are going to rip up a lot of property have an erosion of all kinds of stuff, storm water run off into the lake whether we are going to have holding tanks. It is a no brainer as far as I am concerned. I wish I had her here tonight. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I remember that well. I could quote that I remember that statement very well. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-In granting this approval, John there are a couple of concerns that I would have I would want to see some commitment to an easement being filed so it would always be accessed to the holding tank. I think that would go without saying. MR. SALVADOR-That would be necessary if we, if we were ever subdivided, we do not have to do that now, what do we do, grant an easement to ourselves? That is absolutely clear. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-And it may happen automatically anyway but, the tank would only be installed after all other variances have been obtained and a building permit issued. MR. SALVADOR-Absolutely, there is no need to COUNCILMAN TURNER-He is not going out and do it. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-That goes without saying. And the tank should only be used for the proposed dwelling. MR. SALVADOR-That is clear. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Not for any other use or commercial use. MR. SALVADOR-If for some other use then an approval would have to be obtained. That is all.. SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-This building is a four, five, six bedroom how large is this? MR. SALVADOR - We haven't finalized but we are getting a variance for the maximum that we might need. I mean it could turn out that this is a three bedroom and we need a smaller tank then I think we could put a smaller tank in. Would that be? COUNCILMAN TURNER-That is right. SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-What is your pleasure, ready to vote, further discuss, what is your pleasure? COUNCILMAN IRISH-Did you want to make that part of the resolution with stipulations? COUNCILMAN TURNER-He is going to condition. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I would like to see the conditions as part of the resolution so it is up front and clear. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Conditioned that no construction starts until such time COUNCILMAN MERRILL-As building permit is issued. SUPERVISOR CHAMP ANGE-Right. But that is the only condition... COUNCILMAN IRISH-No, there are two more. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-And the tank should be solely for use with this property. COUNCIMLAN TURNER-For that residence.. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-For that residence, I am sorry, for that property. COUNCILMAN TURNER-And an easement be obtained. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-And an easement obtained. COUNCILMAN TURNER-for the line and the tank, because you MR. SALVADOR-In the event it is needed. COUNCILMAN TURNER-In the event it is needed. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-In the event it is needed. MR. SALVADOR-It is clear... COUNCILMAN IRISH-It is clear to us tonight but five years from now it might not be clear to somebody. MR. SALVADOR-People are getting smart.. UNKNOWN-Does this resolution recognize that these are separate parcels of land? I heard you talking about easements Ted, but the Lake property the one on the north side is a separate parcel... COUNCILMAN TURNER-Yea, we can identify it by parcel number, we could do that. what I am saying is in the resolution, we can identify it by parcel number. MR. SALVADOR -Well the dwelling would be off site. . . UNKNOWN-The septic system is going to be on another piece of property that happens to be owned by you John but it could be owned by me. MR. SALVADOR-By somebody else. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-That is the concern for filing an easement or the requirement that an easement be filed if the property should be sold. MR. SALVADOR -No, question, I do not think I am allowed to start construction of this until a building permit is obtained am I? COUNCILMAN MERRILL-It may be redundant, I am not that familiar with the code. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Are we there? COUNCILMAN TURNER-I think we ought to put the tax map number on it. We should identify where it is coming from, by tax map number where it is going to by tax map number. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-So, do we have that Mark, we want to be sure that on there is both tax map numbers DIRECTOR GORALSKI-We are just trying to determine the tax map number of the parcel on the south side of 9L.. MRS. SALVADOR-1O.1-17.1 MR. SALVADOR-No MRS. SALVADOR-Isn't it? MR. SALVADOR-IO.-1-17.1 COUNCILMAN TURNER-IO.-1-17 MRS. SALVADOR-.l MR. SALVADOR-IO.-1-17.1 COUNCILMAN TURNER-Right, that is on the south. MR. SALVADORE-Yes. COUNCILMAN TURNER-Right what is on the north? COUNCILMAN TUCKER-You all have a letter MR. SALVADOR -4-1-11 on the north COUNCIMLAN TURNER-We all have a letter from Dave Hatin Director of Building and Codes Enforcement, should that be read into the record? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Yes, lets do that. TOWN CLERK READ THE FOLLOWING TO THE TOWN BOARD Mr. Salvador is requesting to place holding tanks on his property for a project he is currently is proposing before the Zoning Board. Mr. Salvador claims that the soil conditions are poor and therefore do not allow a standard septic system to be installed. He also claims that an engineered system would be too expensive to install. Holding tanks are an acceptable alternative it would be entirely up to this board whether they wish to grant this variance or not. Dave Hatin Director of Building and Codes SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-Thank you. Motion introduced and Seconded. Public Hearing Closed. (Town Counsel reviewed the wording of the proposed resolution with changes agreed upon by both of those who introduced and seconded the motion.) RESOLUTION APPROVING SANITARY SEW AGE DISPOSAL VARIANCE FOR JOHN SALVADOR, JR. AND KATHLEEN A. SALVADOR RESOLUTION NO.: 1. 98 INTRODUCED BY: MR. RICHARD MERRILL WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: MR. DOUGLAS IRISH WHEREAS, John and Kathleen Salvador previously filed a request for a variance from certain provisions of the Town of Queensbury On-Site Sewage Disposal Ordinance, such provision being more specifically that requiring that an applicant must apply for a variance in order to have a holding tank, and WHEREAS, a notice of public hearing was given in the official newspaper of the Town of Queensbury and a public hearing was held in connection with the variance request on January 5, 1998, and WHEREAS, the Town Clerk advises that property owners within 500 feet of the subject property have been duly notified, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, a) that due to the nature of the variance, it is felt that the variation will not be materially detrimental to the purposes and objectives of this Ordinance or to other adjoining properties or otherwise conflict with the purpose and objectives of any plan or policy of the Town of Queensbury; b) that the Local Board of Health finds that the granting of the variance is necessary for the reasonable use of the land and that the variance is granted as the minimum variance which would alleviate the specific unnecessary hardship found by the Local Board of Health to affect the applicants; and c) that the Local Board of Health imposes a condition upon the applicants that they must also secure the approval of the New York State Department of Health; and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town of Queensbury Local Board of Health hereby grants the variance to John and Kathleen Salvador allowing a holding tank on property situated at 2999 State Route 9L in the Town of Queensbury, New York, and bearing Tax Map No. 10.-1-17.1, subject to the following conditions: 1. Applicant will file an easement ensuring access from tax map parcel number 4-1-11 to the holding tank on tax map parcel number 10.-1-17.1; 2. No construction shall occur until the building permit is issued for the residence on tax map number 4-1- 11; 3. All other permits be obtained prior to construction; and 4. That the holding tank shall be utilized solely for the residence to be built on parcel number 4-1-11. Duly adopted this 5th day of January, 1998, by the following vote: AYES Mr. Turner, Mr. Irish, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Merrill, Mr. Champagne NOES None ABSENT: None MR. SAL V ADOR-I have a question? The easement, it is clear to me if someday these parcel are under separate ownership that somebody is going to have to have an easement from someone. Is that easement process really necessary before this subdivision takes place? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-My response to that John, is I guess if I were you and I was going to sell that parcel wouldn't it be smart today to have that in place, because I do not know, however you may live in the building, the new building you may sell the resort and the new owners may say, look I am not interested in pumping your goods up on my back yard and therefore no easement to it. MR. SALVADOR-Absolutely. I could sell neither property without the easement, that's clear, nobody is DIRECTOR GORALSKI-That is not true, without that easement you could sell either one of those properties tomorrow and there would be no record that there was any responsibility for either party to provide access to that system. By recording that easement now it is a matter of public record that those parcel cannot be, the parcel to the South cannot be sold without providing access to that holding tank. MR. SALVADOR -No one in their right mind would, the bank would not give. . . COUNCILMAN IRISH--That is not the point, their point is you know what you said tonight but five or ten years down the road they will not know what you said tonight. If you decide to split it up without an easement. DIRECTOR GORALSKI-Nobody would ever know that. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-It is amazing how many people buy property... cash in hand, John. MR. SALVADOR-Ok. . . . where that was, biggest decision in a lifetime. Ok. So we are going to grant an easement to ourselves? SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-That is correct. MR. SALVADOR-Ok COUNCILMAN TUCKER-That goes with the house if you ever build it. DIRECTOR GORALSKI-You are not granting an easement to yourself, you are granting an easement to however owns the parcel to the north of the road. UNKNOWN-The easement if filed with the property. DIRECTOR GORALSKI-The easement goes with the property not to the south of it but to the owner of 4- 1-11. TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-Currently the grantor and the grantee may be the same party and that is fine, that is perfectly appropriate. MR. SALVADOR-But the land is not subdivided. TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-The land is two separate lots. MR. SALVADOR -The land is two separate tax parcels but one deed. TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-That is an issue to take up elsewhere if you want but if there are two separate tax parcels then the boards requirement seems very appropriate to me as Counsel. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-John, all they are doing is giving an easement for that holding tank to be on a piece of property other than where the house sets, that is all you are doing. MR. SAL V ADOR-I can tell you now, there is one deed that covers all of our holdings in North Queensbury, north side of the road, south side of the road over the bridge whatever there is one deed. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-When, I am a dumb cluck, but when and ever you build that house I would assume it would be a smart move that the property that house is built on be on a separate deed. MR. SALVADOR - We would have to subdivide then, now will be get subdivision approval? COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Well if you are not too mean you might. MR. SALVADOR - We tried that once. SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-I understand that there is a condition in this resolution that requires that, that's the resolution. TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-That has already been approved. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That has been approved. Now if we want to change anything within that we need to re-vote. MR. SALVADOR-There is no question in my mind that the, eventually if this subdivision takes place and there are separate owners there is no question that if an important utility like the waste water system if on the other land there has to be an easement. That is no question in my mind. COUNCILMAN IRISH-WeIl, now there is not question in anybody else's either because it is on paper. MR. SALVADOR -lam just asking the mechanics of the thing ... without going to a subdivision. COUNCILMAN IRISH-You do not have to subdivide that just to put an easement in there you do not have to go through subdivision to allow for an easement. MR. SAL V ADOR-I will talk to John he probably has got all the answers on this. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Is it normal Counsel to have one deed with two different tax map identified, that is normal? TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-It is not unheard of it is not a typical, it varies with how property has been granted and how the tax maps have been prepared, especially when you have roads going between and things like that. But as I said that may be an issue that he wants to takes up with the Assessor or with others but I do not think that has anything to do with the issue before us. RESOLUTION ADJOURNING BOARD OF HEALTH RESOLUTION NO.2, 1998 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Douglas Irish RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Board of Health is hereby adjourned and moves back into Regular Session. Duly adopted this 5th day of January, 1998 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Irish, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Merrill, Mr. Turner, Mr. Champagne NOES: None ABSENT: None 2.0 CORRESPONDENCE NONE 3.0 TOWN COUNCILMAN'S COMMITTEE REPORTS 4.0 OPEN FORUM ON RESOLUTIONS BARBARA BENNETT-Questioned if there is any other chemicals being used in the Water besides those that went out to bid? SUPERVISOR CHAMP AGNE- To my knowledge no, but I will get an answer back from Mr. VanDusen. BARBARA BENNETT -Questioned use of Sodium Hypochlorite has it been changed since last year... SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I will have Mr. VanDusen call you directly. BARBARA BENNETT-Regarding Resolution 5.2 questioned if they would test the air in the Queensbury Center. . . SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-No, there are companies that would do that but this is not one of those. RESOLUTIONS RESOLUTION TO AWARD BIDS FOR LIQUID ALUM, SODA ASH AND SODIUM HYPOCHLORITE FOR USE AT THE QUEENSBURY WATER TREATMENT PLANT RESOLUTION NO. 26. 98 INTRODUCED BY: MR. THEODORE TURNER WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: MR. PLINEY TUCKER WHEREAS, the Director of Purchasing for the Town of Queensbury duly advertised for bids for liquid alum, soda ash and sodium hypochlorite pursuant to bid specification no. 's: 98-1, 98-2 and 98-3 previously submitted and in possession of the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury, and WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury received bids in connection with the aforementioned advertisement, and WHEREAS, Thomas Flaherty, former Water Superintendent, has recommended that the bids be awarded to the lowest responsible bidders, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New York, hereby awards the bid for liquid alum to Kramer Chemicals, Inc., the bid for soda ash to VanWaters & Rogers and the bid for sodium hypochlorite to Surpass Chemicals and authorizes and directs that the same be paid for from the appropriate Water Department Account(s). Duly adopted this 5th day of January, 1998, by the following vote: AYES Mr. Tucker, Mr. Merrill, Mr. Turner, Mr. Irish, Mr. Champagne NOES None ABSENT: None RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING RETENTION OF SERVICES OF CONVENIENT MEDICAL CARE, P.C., TO PERFORM SUBSTANCE TESTING SERVICES FOR THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY RESOLUTION NO.: 27.98 INTRODUCED BY: MR. THEODORE TURNER WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: MR. PLINEY TUCKER WHEREAS, by Resolution No. 55,97, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury authorized the retention of services of Convenient Medical Care, P. C. to perform substance testing services for the Town of Queensbury, and WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is desirous of retaining the services of Convenient Medical Care, P.C. to perform substance testing services for the Town for 1998 in accordance with Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSR), and WHEREAS, Convenient Medical Care, P.C., has offered to perform the aforesaid services in accordance with the terms and provisions of an agreement presented at this meeting, at the cost(s) designated in said agreement, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves and authorizes the retention of the services of Convenient Medical Care, P.C., to perform the services outlined in the preambles of this resolution for 1998, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor is hereby authorized to enter into the agreement with Convenient Medical Care, P. C., for the performance of services authorized by this resolution, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the costs of the services authorized herein shall be paid for from the appropriate accounts. Duly adopted this 5th day of January, 1998, by the following vote: AYES Mr. Merrill, Mr. Irish, Mr. Turner, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Champagne NOES None ABSENT: None RESOLUTION TO AMEND 1997 BUDGET RESOLUTION NO.: 28.98 INTRODUCED BY: MR. DOUGLAS IRISH WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: MR. PLINEY TUCKER WHEREAS, certain Town Departments have requested fund transfers for the 1997 Budget and the Chief Fiscal Officer has approved said requests, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the funds be transferred and the 1997 Town Budget be amended as follows: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT: FROM: TO: $ AMOUNT: 01-3620-4030 (Postage) 01-3510-4760 (Vet Services) $ 1,500. CONTROLLER: 01-1315-1035 (Controller Salary) 01-1315-4720 (Consultant) 1,100. Duly adopted this 5th day of January, 1998, by the following vote: AYES Mr. Turner, Mr. Irish, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Merrill, Mr. Champagne NOES None ABSENT: None RESOLUTION REAPPOINTING LARRY RINGER TO PLANNING BOARD RESOLUTION NO. 29.98 INTRODUCED BY: MR. RICHARD MERRILL WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: MR. THEODORE TURNER WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury has previously established the Town of Queensbury Planning Board pursuant to applicable New York State law, and WHEREAS, the term of Larry Ringer on said Board expires on December 31, 1997, and WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury wishes to reappoint Larry Ringer to another term as a member of the Planning Board, effective January 1, 1998, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby reappoints Larry Ringer to serve as a member of the Planning Board said term to expire on December 31, 2004. Duly adopted this 5th day of January, 1998, by the following vote: AYES Mr. Irish, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Merrill, Mr. Turner, Mr. Champagne NOES None ABSENT: None Discussion held before vote: Councilman Tucker-Questioned how long Mr. Ringer has served? Director Goralski-He came on June or July oflast year. Councilman Tucker-Who did he replace? Director Goralski-Dave West. Councilman Tucker-Is he doing a good job? Director Goralski-Excellent job. RESOLUTION ELIMINATING CHARGE FOR DISPOSAL OF SCRAP METAL AT THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY TRANSFER STATIONS RESOLUTION NO.: 30.98 INTRODUCED BY: MR. RICHARD MERRILL WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: MR. THEODORE TURNER WHEREAS, by Resolution No. 157,94 the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury modified certain rates for disposal of solid waste, including scrap metal, at the Town of Queensbury Transfer Stations, and WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury wishes to eliminate the charge for disposal of scrap metal at the Town of Queensbury Transfer Stations, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby authorizes and directs that the charge for scrap metal shall be eliminated and such items may be disposed of at the Transfer Stations free of charge. Duly adopted this 5th day of January, 1998, by the following vote: AYES NOES RESOLUTION TO BE HELD FOR FUTURE VOTE ABSENT: Discussion held:-Councilman Merrill-Noted there are no restrictions on objects containing hazardous or contaminated materials specifically freon in refrigerators... Councilman Irish- noted that this could be a an item to be bid out on freon it is recyclable... we still have a requirement with ENCON or DEC to protect the town from accidental discharge up there. . . We can either get someone to recycle that or we can buy a recyclier between three and five thousand dollars and recycle ourselves we would have to be licensed in order to sell that.. . noted he was concerned about people bring cars up there as scrap metal I do not know that we want to get into antifreeze, gasoline, transmission fluid those types of things ... Supervisor Champagne- I would like not to get into the scrap metal salvage business I think we owe it to the residents of the town to take their white goods but I am a firm believer that it needs to be looked at harder than it has in the past. Controller Hess, noted he is in the process of doing a cost analysis on this project. . . will be done in the near future. Councilman Merrill-Questioned if this is limited to just Queensbury Citizens, that should be spelled out and the question of automobiles should be answered... Councilman Merrill and Turner agreed to hold the resolution.... 6.0 PLANNED DISCUSSIONS 6.1 OLD BUSINESS BIRSDALL ROAD COUNCILMAN MERRILL-What is the status of Birdsall Road? TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-Status Meeting held with Birdshall Road residents-obtained a split expression of opinion in my judgment. since that time the principal player who wants the road improved has submitted a FOIL request which has been responded to, There has been an Attorney engaged by at least one neighbor who does not want the road improved at that is point we are reviewing real property documentation...I am sure if anybody is going to push this issue or not... SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Noted he felt that the Attorney pro - ownership of the road does plan to push the issue. .. We need to identify that would prove or even weight in our direction do we own it or should we not we are going to be in court. . . COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I would like to see some kind oflegal opinion do we own the road or don't we. TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-We do not have a basis for that, questioned how aggressive do you want to be? Questioned if the Board wanted interviews to be conducted on what was or wasn't happening on the road thirty some odd years ago. . . noted most municipal residents would not like that type, to be interrogated by town counsel on issues unless they are already involved in something. Noted there is evidence on both sides, it is a municipal road and evidence that it wasn't.. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Questioned what can be obtained from interviewing residents that have been in the area for thirty years. . . TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-If you get conflicting information from people that lived their the same time then it sounds like that would not help us in terms to leading us to a conclusive result. The question is whether anything other than the inclusion of the what I will call the extra distance beyond the bike trail in the inventory of roads that was submitted in 1963 weights in favor of this being a municipal road. Noted several people in the intervening years have been asked and have filed variances seeking approvals to build single family residences without public road frontage, so the town's position in everything that we are aware of other than that one inventory for this entire time period is that, that has not been a public road. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-The town has never done anything to this section of the road? TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-As far as we know that is correct. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Technically it has been abandoned. TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-Merely stopping to plow is not necessarily fully qualified for abandonment. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Questioned who maintained the road after the house was built? TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-As far as we know the portion of the road beyond what I am calling the end of the bike trail has never been plowed, maintained by the town. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Requested that the Town Counsel look into the laws that would apply to abandonment. . . TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-As I understand Councilman Irish is asking whether the actions taken thus far or lack of actions taken thus far would deem Birdsall road to be qualified as having been abandoned. Board agreed to have the Town Counsel do more research... AMG COUNCILMAN IRISH-Questioned Mr. Hess regarding the inventory at AMG? CONTROLLER HESS-Waiting back for the report on the inventory... 6.2 NEW BUSINESS COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Asked for financial report on the cost of construction of the Water Plant where is that at. CONTROLLER HESS-We just finished paying some bills that we think will take care of the water plant, within a month we will have that done. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Questioned the landfill account? CONTROLLER HESS-Almost done... I would like to do a complete project closure report to make sure that we have accounted for the whole thing and we are in the process of doing that, we think that may effect the re-imbursement from the State... COUNCILMAN IRISH-In our favor or theirs? CONTROLLER HESS-Our favor. LITIGATION COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Requested a meeting with Town Counsel to bring the new members up on litigation? SUPERVISOR CHAMP AGNE- Yes. Next Monday night workshop... various items on agenda, Moreau Water, Hudson Falls Water, Union Contracts... QUESTIONS COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Asked for job descriptions for Department Heads.. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That has been done copies will be available to you. LAND ACQUISITION-LIBRARY COUNCILMAN IRISH-Spoke to the Town Board regarding the acquisition of property for a satellite building for Crandall Library, property has become available would like permission to pursue the acquisition for use as a library and recreation facility. . . COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Noted he had been working on this project, property is for sale for fifty thousand dollars, they are now willing to sell nine plus acres for twenty thousand dollars, only stipulation is that he wants a firm answer BV February 1st. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Spoke about the Library expansion at Crandall, which is still under discussion. . . expansion in the order of ten million, eighty six thousand square feet. . . which they do not have room for. . . . the acquisition of the property would be a strong card to hold to encourage a satellite. COUNCILMAN IRISH-Spoke to the board about the need for a public library in the Town of Queensbury. This is an opportunity to pick up some property that would be more than adequate for that, close to the school, the third and fourth ward have the majority of the population so it would be a good fit for most of the people, easy to get to. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-Noted that the Crandall Library Trustees are aware of this discussion. SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-Noted he would like to know the kind of costs associated with this purchase, and support it is going to be required from the Town, will this be a separate tax to the town's people or funded through the mother library? COUNCILMAN IRISH-Once it is established I do not think that they can take tax money out of the Town of Queensbury to support Crandall Library unless it is one library system. It becomes a library system and it would need operating costs but it would be part of the library system. SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-We would need approval from the trustees? COUNCILMAN MERRILL-This would be part of the building campaign for expansion. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Is there money in the budget to fund this? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Not that I know of. COUNCILMAN IRISH-You could use recreation funds for this...ifyou used part of the property for recreation you can. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Whatever portion of that property you are going to use for recreation it may be able to if the commission agrees to it. . . COUNCILMAN TUCKER-That would be down the road the recreation department getting involved in it. SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-Ifyou are going to use recreation money they better be involved early on. You cannot use recreation funds for anything other than recreation uses. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Is there some way we can purchase this property with town funds? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-We could have a referendum and put it out to the voters, bond it... COUNCILMAN IRISH-I do not want to bond a piece of property like that... COUNCILMAN TURNER-Access is the next thing. COUNCILMAN IRISH-I do not think that would be a problem. SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-I would support further investigation, I am not ready to bring a resolution to the floor ... COUNCILMAN IRISH-I want to talk to the guy with approval from the board, I do not think we want to make a deal with him right now. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Noted that the school is also looking at that property. We will leave it up to you to go back to the owner and come back to us by next Monday at our workshop and tell us where we are at...Ifwe are talking about using the same Library tax base that is now supporting Crandall and we are asking to have a satellite then you better well know now that the Crandall Trustee board is on board with us, I would like something in writing before I spend twenty thousand dollars to buy it. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Do we have contingency funds, can that be financed through contingency funds? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-When the town purchases property it has got to go to permissive... TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-Most means of purchasing property, are subject to permissive referendum. . . COUNCILMAN IRISH-If you purchase it without bonding it though you do not have to go to a referendum, you have to have a public hearing to spend the money but you do not have to go to referendum. TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-Again, it depends on how you structure the purchase, it is not only bond issues that are subject to permissive referendum. BOARD AGREED-to meet with Attorney and then talk with the owner of the property... WARREN COUNTY SUPERVISOR CAIMANO-Since the library is made up of three towns wouldn't the safe way be to know that the others are going to vote with us to do something like that? COUNCILMAN IRISH-What does the other two towns have to do with us? WARREN COUNTY SUPERVISOR CAIMANO-Under the current library set up is Glens Falls, Queensbury and Moreau. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-We want to make sure everybody is on board... COUNCILMAN MERRILL-This has been presented to the Trustees of Crandall Library and the building committee is considering all options including satellite branches. WARREN COUNTY SUPERVISOR CAMIANO-Does it require a referendum of the three towns no matter which way the library goes? COUNCILMAN IRISH-It shouldn't unless they bond the construction. TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-There are a lot of specific provisions about municipally governed and municipally financed libraries and many additional public hearing and voting requirements, I do not know the answer to Mr. Caimano's question. WARREN COUNTY SUPERVISOR CAIMANO-Ifthat is your course I would assume that you would want to know that they are with you before you commit funds. MR. SLA V ADORE-Spoke to the Board regarding the Mountainside Library. . . suggested getting land from the Josha Rock Corp. to lake George.. 7.0 TOWN BOARD MEMBER MATTERS SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Next week Monday-Workshop... announced the resignation of John Goralski, leaving us as of January 23rd. ..have called Keith Manns who heads up Wilton Community Development and Planning Dept. he has agreed to come up next Monday night at 7:00 to talk about how they operate there.. . need to set up ajob description... also Town of Moreau and Hudson Falls Water agreements, Code of Ethics and Town Officials powers and duties, copy of State controller report, Exit 19 Status report, . . . CONTROLLER HESS-reported in the examination report from the State-no signification violations in this report, they made a few recommendations for improvements and total of twelve comments some are being taken care of in normal course of business, some are a matter of interpretation and some technical recommendations which are being looked at. . . in two weeks I will issue for the town board a written report of each of the issues in there. . . will be doing some internal audit part of 1998 process.. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-will be an article in the news regarding the full time part time status of the board members. . . COUNCILMAN MERRILL-I believe the Supervisor has received a petition from the Pershing Road, Ashley Place residents regarding a four way stop. . . questioned if the board should have a resolution supporting the residents and support the signeage... SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-We have spoken to Mr. Naylor he does not feel that there is a need for a four way stop at that intersection. . . we would have to go beyond his opinion and the board would have a review made. . . COUNCILMAN IRISH-Requested that a letter be sent to Mr. Naylor supporting a four way stop... SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Get statistics on the accidents in this area... Requested that since this is in Councilman Irish's District that he study this issue... 8.0 OPEN FORUM MR. BOB V ALARO-Representing Bay Bridge Home owners Association- questioned the status of Gentry Lane DIRECTOR GORALSKI -will check on it... MR. LEW STONE-Congratulated the Board Members on their election, I trust that they will do exactly as they promised in their campaigning and I shall be around to make sure that happens. MR. JOHN SALVADOR-Requested that the Board Members meet the promise that they made when they took their oath of offfice. Questioned the re-activation of the Comprehensive Planning Committee COUNCILMAN MERRILL-The draft is being prepared, and should be out any day... the committee members have been reappointed..the draft will be sent to committee for comments and then presented to the Town Board. MR. SALVADOR-Requested when the job description is written for the new person don't try to box people out of this that might otherwise be interested. . . RE: Dunhams Bay Road, have you expended any monies regarding Dunhams Bay Road do you intend to? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Noted we have a new board, will have to take a look at it. MR. SALVADOR-No. Qsby. Storm Water project did that go out to bid? DIRECTOR GORALSKI - We applied for a grant thorough Environmental Quality Bond Act we have not received word on that. . . MR. SALVADOR-Is the project dependent on that money? COUNCILMAN TURNER-Yes. MR. SAL V ADOR-Mr. Schultz and myself have that bond act in Court... Noted that the town should insulate ourselves from the problems that the County has regarding solid waste. . . maybe we could do it ourselves. . . using the Queensbury landfill as a hugh reclamation system. . . we do not need another taxing district. . . would like to see a study committee on this. . . WARREN COUNTY SUPERVISOR NICK CAIMANO-Thank you for allowing me to come here...! would like to invite you to come to the County Committee Meetings and ask the questions that are being brought up now... two issues right now vital to the town, the sewer and the waste treatment plant.. .Re: Ashley Pershing, the problem with the intersection is that all the rest of the intersections in that area are four way stops and you tend to come to that intersection not knowing what is going to happen. . . dangerous intersection.. .RE: Economic Development - Encourage the new board to communicate and keep what we have, we have a situation with CR Bard they want to work with you regarding their assessment, they feel that they have not been communicated with... I encourage you to re-double your efforts with them...Question: I am no fan ofDEC they have rules which says holding tanks will not be allowed for year around use and then in our own laws the town of Queensbury Sewage and Sewage Disposal echoes what is said in the 1989 law, ... DIRECTOR GORALSKI-I do not believe what you have in front of you from Dec is law... TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-Policy guidelines... DIRECTOR GORALSKI -Our Sewage Disposal ordinance does not say holding tanks will not be allowed it says holding tanks will not be allowed without a variance ... SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-Re: CR Bard vs Town of Queensbury we have been dealing with this for two and a half years. . . we are looking for approval from the Glens Falls School District. . . we are tying to come up with a settlement. MR. LEW STONE-Chairman of the Board of Assessment Review-Re: C.R. Bard, the year before they appeared before us and made a very good plea and they were told by their Corporation that they had to reduce expenses by 2.5% we lowered their assessment by 2.5%just liked they asked. MRS. BARBARA BENNETT -Re: Pershing Road stop noted she lives a few box from Ashley Place... heavily traveled road, traffic heaviest on Ashley Place. .need four way stop. . . MR. PAUL ABESS-Re: Library... noted ACC Library is open to all residents..hours longer than Crandall ... .Re: Fuller Road Abandonment - gave back ground on Fuller Road itself, not on lawsuit per sa... publicly used Queensbury road for one hundred and twenty five year, a beautiful functional and safe road that was enjoyed an appreciated by many citizens.. . obviously not by Paul Naylor, Fred or the previous board members. . . gave hand out to Board members. . .I am here today to tell you that Queensbury Citizens consider your actions an ongoing insult.. . first request is to terminate trying to prevent the Fuller Road case from being heard, stop fighting our appeal of Judge Dier's statute of limitations decision and secondly to stop using taxpayers money to keep the publics Fuller Road as private property for the Rowlands. Let the Rowland's use their own money to obtain public property... if they have title insurance let the insurance pay for it, why are we using public taxpayers money to keep the road closed to the public. If you honestly believe that you have the authority to give away a public easement then let the Judge determine it. Use your own personal money to pay attorneys just as we are using our own personal money. Several questions: directed to Fred and Ted because you were involved in it...I am wondering the reasoning the rationalization for a few actions that most people would consider unethical, for example taking something that was, is and should continue to be owned and used by thousands of people to give to two people. Secondly, making taxpayers pay for you to take away a taxpayer owned Queensbury resource and Thirdly, after recommending that a Judge decide taking all possible steps to prevent the Judge from determining the legality of barricading Fuller Road. Why are we fighting the Town Board why can't you work with the general public? SUPERVISOR CHAMP ANGE-Noted that this was still in court... TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-Right now the action is under appeal.. . the issues that Mr. Abess raises are still in litigation as we speak... COUNCILMAN IRISH-Question what the appeal is based on? Is it based on a technicality or the facts in the case? TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-It is their appeal not ours.. . Judge Dier made a ruling at the Supreme Court level his ruling, dismissed it on a whole series of grounds, statue of limitations being one of them but not the only one of them. . . Reviewed the history of the case. . . COUNCIMAN IRISH-I personally do not want to spend taxpayers money on fighting this thing in the appeal, why don't we let the Rawlands argue out in court and spend their money instead of the town spending our money. . . If the town is right the Judge should see that if the town is wrong then I want the Judge to see that too. . . TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-That is up to the Town Board. COUNCLMAN IRISH-Questioned if the Counsel could file the brief that was in front of Dier in appeal? TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-Essentially. COUNCILMAN IRISH-It would not cost us? TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-Nothing significant. COUNCILMAN IRISH-We could let the Rowlands spend their money to argue it. TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-If you like.... COUNCILMAN IRISH-that would be my preference... TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-The courts find that a little bit unusual but, I would not do that without some kind ofletter explaining why but that is up to the Town Board... COUNCILMAN IRISH-Questioned the appeal date? SUPERVISOR CHAMP ANGE- There isn't one yet... MR. ABESS- The briefs are ready, we have held them up, it is based on the solely the statue of limitation and standings. . . SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Noted that the new Town Board needs to see copies of the decision of the Judge. . . before a decision is made by this Board.. TOWN COUNSEL SCHACHNER-We can talk about this next Monday... MR. ABESS- That is what I am asking that you take a fresh look at it. MR. JOHN STROUGH-Presented a proposal to the Town Board of establishing a Web Page for the Town of Queensbury by students in Queensbury School... noted that funding could be obtained through a SARA grant on this project, for consultants and software. . . we would not know about the grant funding until July... project could start next September... If you just want the student to develop a web page and forget the grant money we could do that too. .. DIRECTOR GORALSKI -Noted that George Hilton did start a web site for the town ... the outline is created. . . I believe that this is really important that this get done. . . once you get the web page out it will need to be updated constantly. . . you will need someone that will be able to do that. . . CONTROLLER HESS-Spoke about the employment of a computer coordinator... I would welcome student involvement with this... MR. STROUGH-Noted he will have figures ready for the next meeting... Board agreed to have Mr. Strough come up with the costs, consulting and software by Monday night and let us take a look at it. . . MR. JOHN SAL V ADOR-RE: DEC manual-this was filed in the State Registrar...it says no holding tanks allowed. . . in granting variances you were supposed to adhere to this section of the sewage disposal ordinance... RE: Fuller Road the statue of limitation problem came into play because Judge Dier converted a complaint based on a takings, he converted that to an Article 78 and because of that conversion then the statue of limitation was succeeded. There is no statue of limitations on a taking claim, but there is on an Article 78. . . Regarding new evidence brought to light by Mr. Abess tonight we might motion the court to renew the action against Mr. Naylor.. .RE: c.R. Bard, have they ever heard about Article 7 of the Real Property Tax law? SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-Yes. MR. SAL V ADOR-RE: Birdsall Road-spoke about the 1963 Road acceptance resolutions.. . noted they refer to a map that has not been located...a map would be conclusive.. . North Queensbury Sewer-plans approach, procedure. . . they took money out of our allocation and are using it on the other side of the lake. . . SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-Reviewed the twenty million dollars that was original appropriated for the project, at the time when this was first engineered it was determined a number of dollars would be assigned to Bolton project Y dollars would go to Hague and we would end up with fourteen million dollars. . . the project that are moving along to the extent that in order for them to proceed in Hague where a referendum has been approved and they are ready to go and also Bolton and Lake George they are going to need five hundred thousand for Bolton and another four of five hundred thousand for Hague and the total package over and above what was originally was appropriated is in the neighborhood a million dollars. The committee is saying and I did not vote for this, that million would come off from the top of Queensbury we went from fourteen to thirteen million so that these project could get underway. To do the total project in Queensbury could come in at twenty two million... We were told when we went to Washington that there would be additional funds available if and when they are required. . . once that money is distributed to the other communities to go back and argue our case that thirteen million is not going to do it and we will need more money. . . option B would be to shrink the project to a point to do only thirteen million dollars worth of work there and take in a smaller portion of the southern basin of Queensbury. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Questioned what would happen if Schultz wins his case? SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-Ifhe wins, everything in the other three towns shuts down they cannot go further until we come back and do it as one project. . . MR. SALVADOR-Each community could go on its own it justify its need...break with the County...is the twenty million dollar grant in jeopardy if Mr. Shultz wins the case? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That money has been out there three years if we tinker with it for another two or three years I would say yes it is at risk... MR. SALVADOR-Questioned where the cost figures are coming from... SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Noted his information comes from Mr. Lamy. MR. SALVADOR-If we down size the project there is no justification to raid our pocketbook. . . SUPERVISOR CHAMPANGE-Noted that this was a very complicated issue... MR. SAL V ADOR-Re: Tax preference program Section 485B of the Real Property Tax law-has there been a large use of this program? SUPERVSOR CHAMPANGE-Not a large use but there has been use. MR. SALVADOR-Questioned what can be done to repeal this? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-It think it is great it is working fine. MR. SALVADOR-Spoke against the program... I am going to foil to find out who is taking advantage of this. 9.0 EXECUTIVE SESSION NONE RESOLUTION ADJOURNING MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 31.98 INTRODUCED BY: MR. RICHARD MERRILL WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: MR. THEODORE TURNER RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its meeting. Duly adopted this 5th day of January, 1998 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Merrill, Mr. Turner, Mr. Irish, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Champagne NOES: None ABSENT: None Respectfully, Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury