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1998-06-29 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING JUNE 29, 1998 7:00 P.M. MTG#31 BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR FRED CHAMPAGNE COUNCILMAN RICHARD MERRILL COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN DOUGLAS IRISH COUNCILMAN PLINEY TUCKER TOWN COUNSEL JEFF FRIEDLAND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE PUBLIC HEARING - PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO ZONING ORDINANCE REGARDING PETITION CHANGE OF ZONE FOR CRACKER BARREL OLD COUNTRY STORE SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Our purpose here tonight is to hear from the public comments, input in the potential or possible rezoning of tax maps numbers 98.-2-1, 98.-3-1, and 98.-3-5, obviously the purpose again is to listen to the public. We will do the SEQRA review sometime in the future once we hear comments from you folks and once we get more information from our engineers and certainly their site plan. What I'd like to ask is that the first go around let's have each one speak for a period of five minutes. After the presentation we'll go into like a five minute cycle. Thereafter, once everyone has had an opportunity to speak then certainly we'll open it up for the second go around. We'll identify those of you that would like to come back perhaps you learned something during the first part of the discussion you'd like to come back we certainly want to allow that. We think that the timing of this in terms of three hours so somewhere around ten or ten plus we ought to wind it down. That's the boards thoughts on this matter I think it will work well for everyone. We all want to be civil here tonight certainly this board is anxious to listen and to hear what the public has to say. With that let's get started whoever is going to do the presentation we are going to speaking in just a little bit. We will hear from the presenters and then we will get to that. JOHN LEMERY, COUNSEL TO CRACKER BARREL, OLD COUNTRY STORE INC., AND DOUBLE H HOLE IN THE WOODS RANCH INC.-Attorney with the law firm of Lemery & Reid. I have here tonight on behalf of the petition for rezoning Jeff Anthony of the LA Group who will speak to you about the site and the issues relating to the site and the reason for the petition. Mark Sargent who is with Creighton Manning the traffic consultants if any members of the Town Board have any questions that you think you would like to ask of the traffic consultants. Lynn Vezina who is with Cracker Barrel, Lynn is the site development manager for this area and is charged with the responsibility for this particular location. He is here also to answer any questions the members of the Town Board have or should the audience address any questions to the Town Board that require the answering by Mr. Vezina he is more than happy to respond. Weare going to direct our remarks tonight to the land use issues that have been presented by this site. The issues that have come before three separate Town Planning Board's and the Town Board on a couple of occasions. I have some items that I would like to make part of the record after Mr. Anthony has finished with his presentation with your permission before we get into public hearing just so that there are some items for the record regarding this site and questions and issues people may have with regard to the site. Without further ado I'd like to turn it over to Jeff Anthony, Mr. Supervisor. He will talk to you about the site the issues we've had to deal with relation to it and go from there with your permission. JEFF ANTHONY, L.A. GROUP-I'll try to give you a brief rundown on the project and project issues the reason why we feel this is a justified request before the Town Board. First off, we realize that this is not a new project to you there have been many requests for rezoning this piece of property over the last several years for various purposes. It is a difficult problem, it is a difficult problem for the Town Board, Town Planning Board. The Town Planning Board by the way has voted three times consecutively to recommend rezoning of this piece of property to commercial. It is a difficult problem for the neighbors we know the neighbors in Greenway North have a vested interest in this project in their homes and there are issues related to that. But, it is also a difficult problem for our client who is not only Charles Wood, but Double H Hole In the Woods Ranch which is a not-for-profit organization with many beneficial actions that they take place in everyday. We're here tonight trying to make a presentation to you that will concern or consider all of these three aspects of the project. All three have valid concerns, all three are important, and all three have to be dealt with fairly and equally. Let's just take a look at the site plan for a second. The site is about a four acre piece of land and it is located pretty much across the street from Friendly's at the Aviation Mall. This is one of the entrances into Aviation Mall which Friendly's is at the corner there the Greenway North roadway is right here. The Greenway North residential area is right in this vicinity and the site obviously is the color portion of this plan. The plan that we're proposing is to develop is about a nine thousand square foot restaurant retail operation on the property. It's Cracker Barrel Restaurant right here and about roughly two thirds of the building will be used for culinary purposes, a restaurant and about one third is a retail operation which they sell a variety of crafts and other goods. The site plan has provisions for about a hundred and fifty, hundred and fifty five cars. The employment at the facility runs around a hundred and twenty, hundred and thirty of which not all people are there at one time, but about roughly forty people work at this facility at anyone given time. We're told thirty five to forty five with shift breaks and other things averages about forty. Development of the site basically has placed the building in the center and has put parking around it as is typical of most Cracker Barrel's. Our primary driveway comes out to Greenway North which a one-way in, one-way out so it is a full service driveway. It has adequate room like we showed here for stacking of several vehicles so that stacking of vehicles leaving the site can happen or occur on the property prior to getting on to Greenway North and getting to the intersection. We have one other driveway proposed and that is on the west bound lane of Aviation Road we have a one-way in and a one-way out proposed. Now we know that traffic was a concern by residents and by people who had appeared at the Planning Board and you probably realize that it has been some time since we've been to the Planning Board and we had a little delay in the project, but we took the opportunity to do a full traffic study of this project. Mark Sargent who is here with us tonight from Creighton Manning was the author of that traffic report. In essence when we submitted that report to the New York State Department of Transportation their response was, no problem build the project. We returned it to the Town for their own decision and consideration I have the letter in my files here, I believe we've transmitted the letter to the Town to various departments within the Town and it is a matter of public record at this time so traffic really should be a non-issue of this project. Another consideration that we believe is very important is visibility of the proposed development and it's relationship for proximity to neighbors especially in the Greenway North residential area. We proposed a one hundred foot wide natural buffer from Old Aviation Road to the point of development on the property. We've also proposed a seventy five foot green buffer area between the backs of the residential lots on Birch Lane and the edge of the proposed development. Now when you look at the site as a total that buffer compromises about two of the four plus acres of land on the property so we're dedicating roughly half of the project site to a forever no build zone a buffer area that will not have any development on it. We're asking that the front half of the site or the site facing Aviation Road the busiest road in the town be considered for development of the Cracker Barrel Restaurant. We're not only proposing that this no build zone be established, but we're also proposing, and this will be worked out in fine detail with the Planning Board when we get there, that the edge of the no build zone both along Aviation Road, Old Aviation Road and along the back sides of the residences and along the edge of the developed area be landscaped with shrubbery so that the lower extent of visibility will be blocked from view when looking into the site. These are tall pine trees it is a tall forest and you can look under it so we're proposing that the edges of that in both the road edge and the developed edge be buffered with more vegetation basically shrubs. In the area of the corner of the site right here there is an existing house, that house and its related out buildings will be blazed and the lot and area will be re-Iandscaped and that will be additional buffer forever green we believe that that's a generous compromise on this project. When we're looking at the three concerned groups in this issue we're looking at the Town what's right for the Town. There is no piece of property on Aviation Road that's zoned residential it is all commercial of one form or another. This is the commercial corridor of Queensbury commercial development is right for this area. When we looked towards the neighbors we say, well, yes you should be buffered. We're providing a generous buffer forever which will be on that piece of property. When we looked at the land owner and the developer's we say, is this a compromise that you can live with, and we believe yes, we're proposing it. If I was the developer I certainly would like to use all my property, but we believe that the allocation of this land for buffer is responsible and it is a responsible approach by the developer and landowner to dealing with complicated issues. Everybody has a concern here and I think this is a compromise that we all can live with. You might say what would happen if we didn't rezone this piece of property. You could probably configure a subdivision plan to meet the SFR-1O zone in many different manners than what we're showing here. This is one illustration of a subdivision that could happen on this piece of property somebody could come in and come up with a different design I assure you, but we're showing the potential for fifteen lots in this property which meet zoning, which meet the requirements of the law as it exists today. You would have two access roads onto Old Aviation Road, you would have fifteen single family lots, you would also have a lot of grading. You would have excavation for foundations, you would have removal of vegetation for lawns, removal of vegetation for driveways and in essence you could lose all trees on the site. There is no guarantee of a hundred foot buffer, there is no guarantee of a seventy five foot buffer. There is no guarantee that views would look right out to Aviation Road and Aviation Mall. None of that is prescribed by the existing zoning law none of it is required, none of it is mandated. Yes, maybe when you are in subdivision review the wisdom of the Planning Board could come across and say, well let's consider those issues but it is not required, it is not written in your law today. This project or a project of this nature could happen today it could totally open up this site visually to Aviation Road and totally allow for views and impact from any of the commercial development around it. When you go back and look at the propose project what's being asked for here tonight is a compromise. I believe it is a good compromise and a good recommendation. Roughly, one half of the property is recommended to be not touched, not used, and even reinforced in terms of it's visual impact, visual buffer I should say. Cars entering and exiting the site will essentially come off of Aviation Road and for a short stretch of Greenway North. We worked on a project down in Wilton, a new Adirondack Trust Branch Bank and the branch bank backed up to a residential neighborhood. The exit for their bank exited onto a residential street. When we worked that project through at the Planning Board we had the same situation as this. An exit which you wanted to go to the left to get to the main road and you didn't want people to go to the right to get into a residential neighborhood. We signed that exit with a sign that said, No Right Turns Local Traffic Only, for the most part it works people don't violate that. Visitors to the area other people make that left hand turn and are directed out to the main street they don't wander through a neighborhood and get lost which is a concern here and a rightful concern by neighbors is that we handle the traffic problems and traffic issues right on the project and that can be handled. This is a quick rendering of what this project will look this from Aviation Road. I'll have to go back to the site plan in a minute, but a good deal of existing vegetation will remain on the site. We're not going to grade and remove and raise all the existing tall pine trees on the property a good deal of it can remain along Aviation Road, all of it will remain to the back of the property along Old Aviation Road and in the buffers. But, this is the proposed building the way it will look from the road with landscaping and it will be, again an attractively landscaped facility. When you look at this plan all these blocks of vegetation that are not shown as individual trees are existing trees to remain we did a grading plan for the site already. By doing a grading plan we know where we're going to be disturbing soil we know where we're going to have to remove trees that exist and we know where there are not going to be trees. Where there are not going to be trees we're going to replace them with propose new trees and shrubs and plantings. One thing has been requested by the Planning Board as part of a condition of their recommendation to rezone this property. There were several conditions most of them need to be met during site plan review, but one that we've already looked at, two that we've already looked at is one, the traffic. That has been resolved, Mark Sargent is here he has worked with DOT to resolve traffic issues, but the second one that we've resolved since the Planning Board meetings has been the requirement that we look at the site for the existence of rare threatened endangered species. We had a biologist from the LA Group, Dr. Richard Ferteama his background was Chief biologist for the New York State Museum in Albany. He has a Doctorate Degree in Wetland Biology and Biology. He visited the project site spent time on it, inventoried species, inventories habitats, and certifies that the site has no existence of rare threatened or endangered species nor does it have any locations that are sighted by the New York State Department of Heritage Group from DEe. The letter is here I can leave it with you tonight it will be part of the record that work has been done as requested. John have I missed anything, I'll turn it over to you for conclusion then. ATTORNEY LEMERY-If I might conclude by saying, first of all that the thirty five to forty people who will be employed by Cracker Barrel will be required to park on the site. It's Cracker Barrel's policy that they park along the perimeter of the sites in the parking spaces on the perimeter. They are not allowed to park on any side roads or off the site that is a Cracker Barrel policy it will be enforced in, so we'd like to at least make the community aware that there won't be people who work there parking on Old Aviation Road. I'd like to make a comment about the Pfeiffer property which is at the corner of the parcel up here. This is the piece ofland that does contain there was a deed for George Pfeiffer to Charles Wood that does contain the restriction to be used for residential purposes only. As, Jeff mentioned the houses the house and the out buildings will be taken down it will be part of the buffer and it will not be used for any purpose whatsoever other than the permanent buffer. This is a hundred and eighty feet from the back corner here to the site it is part of the buffer. I'd like to file with the board some correspondence and I'm not going to read it, I'mjust going to file it as part of the record if it needs to be referred to later on in the evening I'll leave that up to the Supervisor or any members of the board. There was a letter written by myself on January 12th, 1998 which was a response to a submittal by some of the residents regarding the petition for the zone and it dealt directly with the issues relating to the Comprehensive Land Use Plan which was adopted in 1989 so I'd like to file that for the record Mr. Champagne as part of our record tonight. Also for the record this site was zoned C3-commercial in 1967 when Queensbury enacted it's Zoning Ordinance so it did start out as a commercial zone. It was rezoned Urban Residential in 1982 and then in 1988 it was zoned Single Family Residential SFR-1O that's the history of it up through today. As Jeff Anthony pointed out the single family residential zone requires ten thousand square feet one acre where a lot of one acre is required. Divided into three areas of different densities SFR-IO, ten thousand square feet and that's been the site since 1988. I would also point out that this has been on the multiple listing since 1992 as a SFR-1O site and to my knowledge there has never been anyone interested in acquiring the site for residential purposes. I'd like to also file a copy of a letter that was written to the Town Planning Board on January 12th, 1998 from David Kenny, who was part of the Planning Committee in 1988 when the property was rezoned. Mr. Kenny comments about "we recognize that the property on Aviation Road should probably zoned commercial essentially commercial property would only make sense that that would be the way." (A copy of the minutes from the meeting were attached to the letter.) I'd also like to file a copy of the Queensbury Business Association letter directed to the Town Planning Board and the Town Board the QBA by its President and its Directors requested that the site be rezoned plaza commercial. In sum and substance Queensbury Business Association believes that the land should be zoned for commercial use and respectfully asks the Town Board to give careful consideration. Also, I would like to file a copy of the letter that was also addressed to the Town of Queensbury Director of Community Development in November of 1997 when this was first before the board. The Adirondack Regional Chamber of Commerce its board requested that the site be rezoned. It would appear that to continue to maintain the present zoning designation while expecting that the property would be used for the purpose for which it is zoned is unlikely and suspect maintaining the current zoning. Under present conditions could in affect be considered a taking certainly not what anyone wants to deal with. Consequently we urge the elected leaders to first assure adequate green space separation from the adjacent street and then approve the rezoning request as presented to the petitioner. I'd also like to file Mr. Champagne a copy once again of an editorial which appeared in the Post Star on January 19th, 1998 after the Planning Board voted to recommend a rezoning. In its editorial commended the Planning Board for its action which included the one hundred foot buffer and it urge to the Town Board to make the final call on the rezoning, but to do it in a way that would be fair to all the parties in interest. As far as the buffer is concerned I'd like to make a statement to the Town Board and the residents. There has been some question about whether or not this buffer would be permanent. We are prepared and we have discussed with Cracker Barrel that any conveyance from the Double H to the Cracker Barrel or any other party that ultimately requires this site would contain a covenant that would run with the land. That would bind the land to the extent that this buffer would remain permanent and could not be used for any purpose other than as a permanent buffer. Obviously subject to the rights of the Town of Queensbury at some point if you determined you were going to use it for whatever purposes. But other than that it could not be used, would not be used, and would be a covenant that would run with the land and perpetually bind the parcels. I want to make it clear that the sellers of this property will do what is legally required to ensure the people that live behind this site that this site will not be used other than is described and other than is set forth in this plan. Whatever your Town Council would require Mr. Supervisor to ensure that would be done by the developer our only issue here is that we be allowed to use it as part of our green space it would be permanently set aside and could not be used. I guess I just have one more comment I would like Jeff to make regarding how this site fits with plaza commercial zone and meets the requirements of the plaza commercial zone if you would. With that we conclude our remarks Mr. Champagne subject to our right later. MR. ANTHONY-Thank you John. We looked at the requirement of the plaza commercial zone which is what this piece of property is proposed to be rezoned to and the site plan as proposed meets with all the area bulk and other requirements of that zone. As a matter of fact it pretty much exceeds many of the requirements that are in the zoning law. There would be no variances and no other requests related to the development of this site at the Zoning Board or any other board in this town should this rezoning be granted. ATTORNEY LEMERY-There is not one transition zone in the Town under the Town Ordinance requires anything more than fifty feet including from a residential to an industrial zone only requires a fifty foot buffer. There is no buffer required from a residential zone to a residential zone so we think what we've put forth there is a reasonable approach to the land use issue. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Now we're going to open it up for public discussion. JODY MERRITHEW, 17 GREENWAY DRIVE-We're the house directly in front of the Dead End sign on Greenway. Two weeks ago our home was attempted to be broken into and because we were away they broke into the house two doors down. Dan Olsen who lives directly across the street from us their son's Jeep was shot out by a pellet gun. This has all begun when the construction began on the bridge. The one question I wanted to ask is when their survey began of traffic in our area? Number two the Trust Bank that he was talking about on Route 9, I work up the road from it part of the problem is that it is totally mis- marked and people slam on their brakes to turn into the trust. They are off of Route 9 which is the busiest road going 45 mph then out over to Stewart's. I have three sons a five year old, two and a half year old, and a nine month old. What's happening right now because people are so flustered with the bridge being done over they are driving up thinking there is a by-pass through our area. They are U-turning in our driveway without looking for any children. The Dead End Sign is really mis-marked it should be way up so people don't come all the way back our road is totally mis-marked on what it is back there. They are going to add a restaurant that also during prime hours extends its hours to twenty four hours. I lived in Knoxville, Tennessee where this restaurant is based out of during prime hours during the summer they extend their hours to twenty four hours. So then we're going to have all that extra traffic coming off of the Northway to eat, yelling, screaming kids who are tired, on, and on, and on. Right now with Wal Mart which I live right next to at forty thirty you hear it's Break Time. It's funny to everybody else except when you've got to get up at six a.m. with three children and you've got to be on the road and go to work it is not funny. Their music is very loud the barrier fences do not work and they are only talking about shrubbery they are not even talking about a barrier fence. I don't feel that is fair to people who live in that area, noise travels. I mean the Northway birds and things you've got to deal with but this is something we're going to add, I don't feel that's fair. Another thing is during all the construction that's going on in the by-passes that their even discussing. What because somebody has to wait five extra minutes to go over to Wal Mart that's wrong the traffic is fine a lot of it is mis-marking at these traffic lights. There are not signs saying Route this way, turn here, turn there. The lane to turn going north at the intersection at Aviation and Glen Street, I'm sorry I call it the old things is not long enough for the amount of traffic going over. It is too short for what's going over there our roads are not properly designed so I don't understand why we got to take the blunt of mis- marked roads not properly surveyed. I'm not a rocket scientist on all this, but these roads got to be marked properly so when tourists are coming through they know which way to go they are not in the wrong lane causing a traffic jam, causing an accident. There were three accidents last year right at the corner of Aviation and Greenway North. One of them because it is a blind site going west because the sun sets in the west as the suns coming down the cars don't see the car that's stopped there at a red light because you can't even see the red light that's not fair to penalize us to make a turn-off and disrupt our family. Another thing with the Cracker Barrel is buses leave their engines running that's a lot of pollution, a lot of air to suck in when you are at home. Not everybody has central heat and air that's not fair and the noise that's not fair. I'm kind of disgusted on the respect were not being given at this point in time living up there. My husband and I work on a regular basis to support our children you don't know if my children have a liver disease, you don't know if I have breast cancer, you don't know if my husband has prostate cancer and we're dealing with that. A Cracker Barrel coming in does not offer insurance to their employees unless they are full time employees well that's not a quality job why aren't we bringing in quality businesses that offer, what we're doing is educating our children here in Queensbury, here in Glens Falls, here in Hudson Falls, and you ready everyday in the paper them getting married and they live somewhere else. They are not even supporting their own community that they were educated in to become these brilliant minds because we have nothing supporting our children and we really got to start supporting our children. Let's stop fighting over this silly piece ofland I know were not making anything in taxes because it is a wright off because he donated it to the Double H Whole in the Wall which is a tax exempted organization. With a one point three million dollar price tag who in their right mind can afford five acres. I know my time is up I hope I have said enough. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-We welcome you back we really welcome you back. MRS. MERRITHEW-I feel I've said enough. Thank you. JOHN SALVADOR, NORTH QUEENSBURY-At the present time I serve on the Town's Comprehensive Land Use Planning Committee. We had on occasion to talk about this property sometime ago in our committee and we also recommended that the zoning be changed. Our recommendation was predicated on the fact that the integrity of this buffer zone be guaranteed, guaranteed that's the only thing that's going to make this work. Mr. Lemery has explained at length about how this will make this parcel work in a commercial sense so I would ask how do we guarantee this? In perpetuity not that it's sometime in the future the Town decides that for some reason there is a public benefit to destroying this buffer zone and using it for something else and I know that these talks are going on now. I would suggest since the last time we talked about this parcel we have a new player in the neighborhood namely the Pyramid Mall Group. I would suggest you table any consideration of a zoning change for this parcel and dump it into a comprehensive look at this whole area. The intersection Route 9 and Aviation Road this parcel the whole Pyramid approach we've got to begin to look in a comprehensive manner what is going to happen to this area of town. It is incumbent upon you people to protect that neighborhood that residential neighborhood its essential. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Folks I don't mean to be obnoxious here, but I would ask you to hold your applause it just isn't going to make the meeting move forward, backwards, whatever. Please whatever is said I certainly have a appreciation just as you do, but please refrain from the applause. GORDON ADELSON, 40 OLD COACH ROAD, QUEENSBURY-I recently moved up to the area I lived in Rockland County for almost forty years and I saw that county be destroyed by the indiscriminate development. The major east west highway in Rockland County it is not the Thruway which obviously is, a Route called fifty nine. It is an endless succession of hot dog stands, pizza parlors, and strip malls, many of which are partially vacant and the vast majority which are filthy and tawdry and bring crime. Somebody just mentioned the Pyramid Mall they just built a million eight hundred and fifty thousand square foot edifice there wanting to open that up to almost four million square feet. This is the kind of thing that ultimately brings destruction to a community. I've seen this, I lived in Rockland for forty years they are a good example of how not to be. Go to Nassua County, Sufflox County, go to Rockland County ultimately the people will pay and they will pay a very dear price for that type of development. There have been all kinds of things said about schools yes we all understand the necessity for an adequate tax base but it has to be done with common sense where the communities aren't destroyed and the people aren't destroyed. God help me, I don't own a house anymore that's one of the reasons. I don't like to shovel snow anymore I just gave that up, but if I had a house in back of that proposed development I'd be fit to be tied. The young lady mentioned with the buses idling with the diesel fumes and the noise of the children and everything else this is unconscionable to even contemplate that. To use the other gentlemen before me said, it's up to you people to protect us you are the elected officials you must protect us. Thank you. BOB VOLLARO, 5 GENTRY LANE, QUEENSBURY-I'djust like to say in looking at all that is happening along the main corridor of 254, I've just written down real quickly from Dix Avenue all the way up to the beginning of the Northway. The Planning Board just approved the Hess Station there which has a forty nine hundred square foot eating capability. Coming north you pass a small drive-in, then the bagel shop, then O'Toole's, then Apple Bee's which is still on the books coming before the Planning Board next to Passano Paints, then the Olive Garden, then Mc Donald's, then the Cracker Barrel which is the subject of this discussion, the Silo, then the restaurants that you've got in the mall that's an awful lot of places to eat I'll tell you. Taking a look at all of those along that main corridor until we take a look at doing this on an integrated study basis, I mean if you look at the bridge the bridge concept design was laid down in 1988. It says in the Draft Environmental Impact Statement that that's going to take care of traffic to 2018, but certainly a lot of the other traffic areas traffic. . . . weren't even considered when the initial bridge concept was laid down. I think another thing they talk about use of the Comprehensive Land Use Plan its ten years old. I know there is another one on the book, Dick you are probably more aware of that than anybody else. In the Draft Environmental Impact Statement and in this study it hasn't surfaced the new plan is not what you are working on you are working on a ten year old document you are way behind the power curve there as far as I'm concerned. I guess my whole thing is you've got to take a look at this traffic study that you are doing on an integrated basis it can't be a stand alone study on each of these operations anymore. Somebody in the traffic analysis business has got to take a look at the whole subject and that's all I have to say about that. JOHN STROUGH, QUEENSBURY-First thing I have listed here is I'd like to thank all the good people who dedicate themselves to caring of our children at the Double H Hole in the Woods. We appreciate their need for funding, funding that they will get when this land is sold. However, I think you would agree that being the Double H Hole in the Woods people that you would not want to make this particular gain be if this particular gain causes other people to suffer serious erosion of their quality of life and home values. There will be other opportunities to sell this land opportunities that would be more reasonable to the Glen Acres people and to the Queensbury community. I too, have a submission other than... . again. (Submitted letter to Town Board members). It says identify us, I'm a member of CARE and that is Citizens Against Rezoning Effort and as you know we're opposed to the rezoning. But doing a little research as a group and we've done considerable a lot of digging, a lot of studying, zoning and planning, looking at other towns we've come up with generally speaking what you should look at as Town Board members to consider any zoning change. First of all, as I said you have to be looking at the carrying capacity of the land. You also have to look at the most intense commercial development allowances in our case in Queensbury we're looking at a plaza commercial zoning criteria. A lot of this is obvious and a lot of this I know that you know, but I'm just going to go through it for the record if that's okay. Traffic. You have to take a look at the pattern and flow from and to the site and make sure that it will not burden. The coherent and safe traffic standards. Current traffic configurations. Pedestrian safety. Traffic access points and you have to consider the worst case scenario. Storm water and drainage requirements would not be further burden by this rezoning. Here in Queensbury I think we have to be very concerned about the Halfway Brook Drainage Basin. We also have to be concerned about new construction rate of surface runoff, neighboring septic system, water inflow\residential basements. We have to take a look at the permeability requirements and make sure they are met. Will the most intense application still meet the twenty percent permeability requirement after building, buffer zone, after pavement allowances are deducted. Can the carrying capacity of the land meet the code standards for building size parking lot allocation. So we have to subtract from that the buffer zone, the deed restrictions, the permeability, snow removal storage, land recontouring (currently has a 10% compound grade). After consideration of all this will this lot be suitable for plaza commercial development? We also have to take a look at the short and long term detriments to the community. I think more importantly we have to take a look at the long and short term benefits to the community. Rezoning benefits have to be for the community not for the applicant. We also have to make sure that what we're doing follows generally accepted zoning and planning practices. We have to ask ourselves will this application maintain and improve adjacent property values. Would this application assure the town's duty to protect established residences that's probably one of the most important ones right there. Would this application agree with community interest. Would this application protect and improve the quality oflife of those in the community. Would this application protect and improve the quality oflife of those living adjacent to the parcel in question. Would this application consider the maximum impact of all allowed uses. Would it protect and improve community safety. Would it enrich community aesthetics. I think we also in Queensbury have to consider this particular locations unique history the history, I think we're all familiar with. These people didn't ask for a Northway they didn't ask for a commercial development, I mean its happened. I think we have to bear the burden of trying to protect this residential area as much as we can and that means limit an intense use such as this applicant is suggesting. We have to assure all commercial PC allowances would be congruous with the configuration of the land. I think we have to be in accord with the town's current and proposed Comprehensive Land Use Plan. We should provide a true transition zone between a residential and commercial interest not an ineffective buffer zone and I'll talk about that later. We have to show evidence that the applicant's land has been competitively marketed, at a comparable price, for a sufficient amount of time. Those are in general considerations that I hope you and we should all consider before we vote on rezoning it. I have more I'll give other people a chance. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Okay. ROGER BOOR, QUEENSBURY-Pliney, Doug, Fred, Ted, Dick, good evening. Turn outs like this I'm sure make you feel like you are physicians in a medical clinic and its flu season. I know I've been guilty of coming before you usually with complaints and the concerns that important issues are not being given due consideration. I know, however, you have a daunting task as far as setting into motion and seeing to completion all that is required and running the day to day operations of a Town. I would say that although I don't always agree with you I applaud your work and realize all of you have to have sleepless nights. I moved to California in 1977 and after a few years in the trades I became a licensed general contractor and subsequently worked for two development companies. Yeah, these were a boom times in California and for some projects I was involved in I would find myself in front of boards such as this. Often times there would large numbers of citizens like we have here. However, I would be less than honest if I said that all the projects had net positive impacts. California is a wonderful place to see development as its best and development at its absolute worst. The traffic problems in the state are like no where else and they occurred not all at once but at an insidious creep. A store here, a gas station there, a restaurant here, a housing development there, etc., etc., etc. The sad fact is that all growth is not good and quality of life issues are not just the ramblings of mal-content and tree huggers. I moved back here so if for example I wanted to go out and say get a ice cream cone I wouldn't have to look at my watch and go, gee its rush hour or let me rephrase it, its rush two hours and forty minutes. I just cannot emphasize enough that if you approve this rezoning request before you tonight you should present to the public a long and a compelling list of how we the public are going to benefit. On to the matters at hand and that's traffic. At the June 15th meeting of this board I touched briefly on some of the concerns I had if the rezoning request being sought here tonight were to be granted. When considering plans or projects that affect travel in our town it is important to realize that the population of the Town of Queensbury is essentially divided in half by Interstate 87. There are but three over passes of this highway connecting the east part of our Town and the west. I'm sure it's to no ones surprise that Aviation Road Bridge is the most traveled. The applicant himself called the Aviation Road Corridor the busiest road in the Glens Falls-Queensbury area. This is due to no small part to the fact that Aviation Road west of the bridge acts as a trunk for extensive residential branching and the entire Queensbury infrastructure the school. To the east of the bridge we have the mall and a vast string of businesses on Highway 254 as well as Route 9. We also have the other half of the population of Queensbury. Some people have referred to the current traffic flow at the bridge as a bottleneck in reality it is a hour glass with the sand running both ways. We have a population west of the bridge having to cross the bridge for work, pleasure, shopping. We have those people to the east crossing to access the school and at some time or another to cross the bridge to access Interstate 87. Of course, this does not take into account those individuals and families that are from outside our area and more than likely access Queensbury using Interstate 87 and Aviation Road the gateway to our community. The bridge expansion yet to be completed was not long ago heralded as the "Panascena to Traffic Woes" that have grown as the population has increased. I was at the ceremony when the original bridge was built and I swear that at the time someone in the crowd said, gee they should of put a couple more lanes in obviously a forwarded thinking individual this is what is required of you tonight. We are here tonight arguing merits and consequences of rezoning several parcels of land to benefit whom. I believe that the prerequisite for rezoning is that the applicant has to show that something has changed and makes necessary the request. Let me tell you what I think has changed. (1) Traffic on Aviation, 254 Corridor is heavier than it ever has been and accounts for a disproportional number of accidents. The booklet you have I think accounts for it you can read about it. (2) There is a viable and likely chance that a huge mall expansion will take place. (3) Lowe's the largest retail store in the Glens Falls-Queensbury area will be open for business this fall and is located on State Highway 254. (4) Queensbury School has almost completed an addition not only to accommodate a large population of students, but in fact a growing population of students. (5) There is a pronounced revitalization in downtown Glens Falls. (6) The Comprehensive Land Use Plan of 1988, 1989 was deemed to restrictive and designed to curve rapid development that the entire country experienced during the 1980's. As a result a new Comprehensive Plan was undertaken in an attempt to open up to development again certain opportunities in areas of the town. The new plan does not recommend plaza commercial zoning for the properties we are discussing here tonight but is more restrictive. (7) Recognition of impending traffic problems has led this board to move forward or at least secure funding for what has been in the past referred to as the Greenway North Connector. Item 7 the connector road is a particular interest to me. This proposed arterial is clearly shown traversing the properties in question, please refer to page 53 of your booklet. At the June 15th meeting of this board there was uncertainty as to whether the connector was a super imposed arterial of the Old Aviation Road or a separate entity. Clearly as originally planned this arterial would in fact run through the properties in question. I would also remind members of this board or at least draw attention to Town Code, page A18342, sub-section B, bottom of the page, which in essence forbids local streets from intersecting collector streets by a distance less than 300 feet. There are some individuals here tonight who have been opposed to and fighting this rezoning effort for months some for years. I must say that the most difficult parts of the fights if I can say that is the speed with which things are changing. Please remember this the speed with which things are changing. I for the most part I have completed what I have said to you tonight and then I read Saturday's paper and how this board wanted to rethink the configurations or at least the options as they pertain to the Greenway North Collector. I believe you made a wise decision and I would like to thank you. It is my sincerest hope that the connector and whatever configuration is designed to help traffic flow in and or around the hour glass. The connector should not be built or designed to provide ingress to and egress from a high use high turn over business that is allowed and most certainly would be built if plaza commercial designation is granted the applicant for the properties in question. Please remember that if the mall expansion along is approved the traffic flow rated D that existed prior to the bridge work will remain D. So the panasena bridge expansion will not decrease travel time through the Aviation Road 254 area. This fact alone should make clear that the overriding priority needs to be traffic flow as it relates to this very limited geographical area. Other parts of the community cannot be developed or really be considered for development if they cannot be reached or easily accessed large companies and product based manufactures will not locate to an area that does not provide adequate means and roads to distribute their product. In closing I'd like to draw attention to the county sewer project and the EIS requirements that ultimately put a stop to the plan much can be learned from that project and why it was halted. Your approach to our Town should take into account the lessons learned as they relate to the sewer project. It is incumbent on you and beneficial to the Town and surrounding communities that the aggregate affect of all existing and future development be looked at piece meal planning is woefully flawed. Many projects look wonderful and promising when viewed with tunnel vision sometimes a wide angle view is more telling. Thank you. (Submitted picture taken at Cracker Barrel on July 6th, 1998 on file Town Clerk's Office) GLEN LUNT, 10 CARLTON DRIVE, QUEENSBURY-At six o'clock in the morning when I go to work I can go out and take a left hand turn onto Aviation Road and go down to my work. At any time after six o'clock or possibly around eight o'clock my wife or anybody else in the Greenway area cannot do that out of Carlton Drive they all have to go down to Greenway North. I cannot understand how you can possibly feel a business such as this that's going to put that amount of traffic in there would ever allow us the access that we need to Aviation Road to do our daily business. Thank you. KATHRYN KELLY, 13 CARLTON DRIVE, QUEENSBURY-I'm retired now, but when I worked and I had to be at work at eight thirty I could not make a left or a right up Aviation. I couldn't get out of Greenway North because it was a blinking light. I had to cut through Kentucky Fried Chicken which I'm not suppose to do, but that's the only way I could go to work many times. Recently I was over near Freindly's and it was before school, school was still in session but it was not summer time yet we didn't have tourist in the area yet. I counted within five minutes about five thirty, six o'clock a hundred and twenty cars coming up or down Aviation Road, I'm not exaggerating that. Anybody that lives in the neighborhood can verify that. The other thing we were mostly retired people in the area now we have young families moving in when some of the older people move away or if they pass away. It is a wonderful sight to see young children playing in the streets. We have three, four, five year olds even on Carlton Drive riding their bicycles. Cars come through there forty, fifty an hour and I hope it doesn't take a child to lose their life with the increase traffic. The other thing I'd like you to consider if you please would. The trees that are there now are very necessary for the traffic because we all know trees help to purify the carbon minoide. Sometimes the breathing is not easy with the traffic on the Northway, Aviation Road as it is. I would like you to consider the people that live in the area and like to maintain the area for a quality life. Thank you very much. MR. CHRIS V ANDERZEE-7 GREENWAY NORTH- My name is Chris VanDerzee and I live at 7 Greenway North. Four and half years ago I lived on Central Avenue I had at least a twenty yard buffer not the thirty three yard buffer and that was between me and five lanes of highway. My wife was pregnant so we decided to move north to a safe place where we could raise our kids. So, I moved my pregnant wife up here we went looking for a house and I was told by the Realtor this is a great spot, Red Lobster is shot down it will remain zoned the way it is and it will be a great place to raise a family. So, we went ahead and had a second kid. I hope it stays that way, no more kids though. There are a hundred and thirty parking spots, forty of them are going to be taken up with employees where is all the overflow from all these people if you all go down to the East Greenbush one you can see that they park in the bank parking lot the building to the left, they park in the road it is a mess. Now, you have delivery trucks going in and out you have busses going in and out you have the busses going down to drop the people off to Kentucky Fried Chicken all the busses coming from the prisons with all those families. How is all this traffic going to go up and back? The buffer zone, he nicely said that we guarantee that this will stay here, well if you zone it the whole thing changes to all four acres to a new zoning and a year from now they do not make it and they close the doors and somebody else comes in well it is zoned commercial lets clear it out and make it what we want, What is going to prevent that? And last when I did buy my house up here I bought a house that needed a lot of work, work that I could do or hopefully I could do to increase the equity and I put a million hours of sweat equity into it I just hope that in one sixty second vote you do not take away all that equity and all that money I made, it is tough enough in this world not to lose it just like that. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Ok. Miss? MS. DONNA HARRISON-I am Donna Harrison I am clumsy. I live at 7 Birch Lane I live here, the land is Sam and Barbara Bajza, but I do rent it from them and you would wonder why anybody would want to live there in fact I just asked him if I could buy the house, because it is a great neighborhood. One of the things that I enjoy about Queensbury and living in Queensbury since I was, roughly fifteen, sixteen years old was that there was community here. And there was a lot of areas that I lived in Queensbury with that community spirit did not exist and is does exist here. To the south of me there is Gert Boynton she is a widow she was widowed two years ago she does a beautify job keeping you know, good care of her yard you cannot see the Lanfears across the street, Alan and Tressa they are in their eighties and they are as active as they can be but they do enjoy their privacy my understanding is that they have been there most of their lives. Next to them would be Joyce and Walt Brown and they have just finished raising their family, a teenage boy named Kenny and I got no problems with Kenny, he can shoot hoops cool. This is the land of Fred of Laura McNeal and in this house lives Stephanie six years old and James four years old and deaf. They took all of their life savings to buy that house so that they could be close to Prospect School for James and James would be in a quiet neighborhood where he might have a safe place to grow up where he might be able to ride a bike just like every other kid. As it is now my daughter is eleven years old this is where I am choosing to raise my family. I cannot trust her to ride her bike anyplace other than Birch Lane because, well she is a little skitstzy I do not know where she gets it. But, I am really quite afraid of the traffic that already exists on Old Aviation Road. I have got no problem with you rezoning that piece of property I just do not think that Highway Commercial or Plaza Commercial is an appropriate zoning for it. I am glad they did a lovely job with the Adirondack Trust Bank I would love to have a bank there, I would like to have a Post Office there I would like to have a Library there, the book store can come back. You know Barnes and Nobles we never even heard about it. I learned when I was selling real estate that the worst thing that you could possibly do with a piece of property be it land, commercial or a house is over price. Of course you are not going to generate interest if it is over priced. I keep hearing that, you know it has been on the MOS since 1992 and it attracted no interest. It had been listed residential, land does not got listed as residential or commercial it gets listed as land. And it does not generate interest if it is over priced, it doesn't generate interest if it is not actively marketed. At the price that is on that land the only people that can afford it are large chains and that is why we heard from Red Lobster and that's why we hear from Cracker Barrel. I do not even think that, that land is most appropriate use, appropriate place in Queensbury for Cracker Barrel. I have got nothing against Cracker Barrel either, chicken fried stake is my most favorite food in the world, sausage gravy are you kidding, I would love to have them in town just not seventy five feet from my back fence. Seventy five I keep hearing the one hundred foot buffer and it makes my blood boil. Because I am in one of the houses that backs up to this property. Seventy five feet of already existing trees I beg you come and see the trees, they are tall pines, no they are not there is tall pines yes, they are not pines they are pines, this is a constant revolving wooded area, there is a lot of deciduous trees in there, which means when fall comes they are going to drop their leaves. Right now that wooded area there is a tremendous buffer in terms of noise. You come to my house and people say it is so quiet here and they have no, it does not feel like you are near the Northway and it is really neat to walk down the street to the True Value Store when you need nuts or bolts or maybe a new coffee pot. It is a wonderful place to live and it is close to the school which has been convenient for little league and girl scouts and all the things that I involve my daughter in. It is close to my sitters house it is a good place for me to live unless I got a restaurant behind me. I do not care how clean anyone restaurant is there is going to be garbage and my understanding is the dumpster, is used to be planned on the side of the house, the side of the parking lot where my house is, dumpsters need to be emptied they are emptied by big trucks they come early in the morning and make a awful lot of noise. Big parking lots need to be cleaned up by very, very noisy cleaning machines which I am already familiar with from Northway Plaza and Aviation Road, no, Aviation Mall. It does not matter how clean you keep it garbage is going to attract seagulls, pigeons, roaches, rats and they are going to be in my back yard and I cannot be thrilled about that. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Anyone else? MR. MARK HOFFMAN-Hi I am Mark Hoffman, I live on Fox Hollow Lane, I am speaking on behalf of Citizens for Queensbury as President the Citizens for Queensbury voted at a general meeting several months ago to oppose the rezoning of this area. The vote was nearly unanimous a large group of people at Queensbury High School cafeteria. Major concerns were that the, neither the highway commercial or plaza commercial designation provide adequate protection for residents of the adjacent neighborhood. There maybe other acceptable uses for this property other than residential however neither of these highway or plaza commercial designations would provide adequate protection it may be that the zoning code needs to be revised to provide for more options more different ways to zone property rather than the limited options that are currently available. But, in the mean time lets not ram rod a development through that really is not appropriate. There are also major traffic concerns which are only heighten by other recent and proposed construction in the area which has been previously outlined. The rezoning from residential to highway or plaza commercial is a, is really radical rezoning, we are not talking about rezoning from one commercial designation to another commercial designation, we are not talking about moving a little boundary one way or another a few feet we are talking about a radical rezoning. A critical function of zoning is to create predictability regarding adjacent development for property owners. A radical rezoning initiative of this sort reduces public confidence in the zoning process and in productions that it affords to residents that would underscore the statement that I made to the Planning Board several months ago which is that the Town Board is under absolutely no legal obligation to do this rezoning. I just, a comment in regard to the letter to the editor that appeared in the newspaper this morning certainly we all applaud the Double H Hole in the Woods Camp it is a great outfit and does wonderful things, I do question the ethics of using sick children as pawns in this rezoning discussion. I think the rezoning issue should be decided on the merits of the community planning issues involved. Thank you. MR. LOU STONE-Lou Stone, North Queensbury. We have heard from approximately eleven people so far this evening and by my count, ten have said no to rezoning one said yes and no. If the Board would permit I would like a straw vote from those behind me in how many of those are not infavor or rezoning who do not want to be rezoned. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I am not sure this is the place for straw votes, I apologize for that but I think the decision here is not whether you raise you hand or you do not raise your hand you know there is twenty four thousand other people out there I think we want to stick to the facts here lets get it down on paper and then we will analyze it, we will .. MR. STONE-There are certain facts that, this is not fact this is actually I am making a philosophy statement if you will. I believe from what I have heard tonight and what I have heard in my travels around town that the bulk of the citizens of this town the bulk of the ordinary residents do not want this rezoned. I think John Strough made a very good point reading the most intensive use of this parcel we are not just talking the Cracker Barrel even though most of the people do not want a restaurant but thats not the issue here. It is rezoning for commercial purposes and we have to keep that in mind. We get a little mudded when we start taking Cracker Barrel is not going to be good as far as most people are concerned there would be worse situations. I have been told and this is the philosophical part that the Republican Party stands for government at the lowest level possible level depending upon the job to be done, that has been the watch word for years. I have been told that the Queensbury Town Board is made up of entirely of members of that party it seems to me that you the Town Board have been told by the public the ultimate lowest level of government in our society that they do not want the subject property rezoned from its present classification or at worst to any zoning that would allow the sighting of a restaurant. I ask that you listen to them and follow your own political beliefs. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Anyone else? MR. DAVID KENNY-David Kenny, citizen of the Town of Queensbury. Personally I would like to say that I am in favor of the rezoning. I have a few reasons. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Can you hear him back there? (NO) MR. KENNY-I would like to say that I am in favor of the rezoning and there is a few reasons why. I think is a good use of the property. But, mainly I guess I have a problem with the whole site from the beginning. I hope it never happens to me. It is like Washington, they pass a bill and this gets snuck in and I do not know about it. In 1968 the property was commercial, it got rezoned was the owner ever told that? When the community was developed and I realize it is a beautiful community but the land was commercial at that time. So, in 1968 they snuck it in on a bill and it passed just like Congress does all the time you know little bills that are included in the major bill, lets rezone this mans property and never told the man. In 1988 I was part of that committee yes, in 1988 the property I believe was UR 5000, which would have allowed, that was why it got changed from '68 it was commercial it got changed UR5000 we as a committee looked at and said UR5000 that would be forty houses in there five thousand square foot per unit it does not make sense. It does not make sense for residential at all but we were concerned there was no sewer, there were certain traffic problems that had to be addressed but back in our minds we felt but how could you zone something commercial until the sewer went in and certain things happened. And a buffer had to be created and certain things I think this addresses most of the issues we looked at. But the main problem I had we have turned around and took you off five thousand at the time and rezoned it to single family ten thousand residential. Again, guess what, we never even told the landowner. I hope with the new comprehensive plan use that we are going through today we do not continue this practice. If we rezone somebody's property I hope that we have the common curtesy to let them know before we go ahead and do it. I do not think that is right. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Well, we have to, I think Dave with certainly a lot ofluck that this will never happen again in Queensbury. It certainly happened evidently in the past although I do not have the details to confirm that you do. I it is my opinion that you know in the future for any rezoning there will be a public hearing and during that public hearing that owner is going to have to be notified. MR. KENNY -You see when the master plan is done there are public hearings I did not say there weren't public hearings it does not tell landowners what their property if there is a rezoning, it is just a public hearing you come in and look at maps there is public meetings. If I am a landowner in Florida or California I do not get notified guess your land is subject to rezoning. You may get notified there is a master plan going through the town it would be in the paper it would be advertised and everything else but we do not tell, notify landowners when land changes zone, that I am aware of. You have to make it a point to be at the meetings, and read the paper and stuff, yes it is in there, it is noticed, it is in there but it is not, I mean and it is fine if the land stays in the same zone if I own land if I am away you know a lot of people are not here today. I would not have known about this meeting tonight it wasn't really what I read in the paper was there was a Queensbury Special Board Meeting tonight somebody happened to tell me yes, this was on the agenda. But, I was not notified, I would not have known this was the topic tonight. But, still, that is all neither here nor there, the real question is now what do we do today? We have these past problems hopefully to be addressed in the future. This site with the buffer zone which twice any other buffer I agreed with John Salvador, yes, there has to be something to do make sure that green space stays there, but I would, but if he came in and to put in twenty houses there tomorrow and stripped that whole lot of all the trees because that is what it would take would that make sense? I would like to even, all the you know they are saying that they do not want this with a hundred foot buffer would they want a house along Aviation Road with basically no buffer? So, land is not, they have to agree that the land if not zoned currently properly now. And if we are at all considering the expansion of Aviation Road of Aviation Mall or Pyramid Mall which I read in the paper was no one, there seemed to be very little objection to it, most of the citizens of the Town of Queensbury from what I read seem to be in favor of it. If that is the case, this land, it renders this land almost useless as any type of residential zone with a million square feet across the street from it commercial with the increased traffic and everything. I am just going by, you know, I was here when Walmart got approved with very little objection same neighborhood, very little objection I do not think it would have got approved with no buffer they got probably ten, I do not know how many variances but quite a few variances to get that project through. And the object to that, they did not come in and cry about the wood fence and no buffer they did not go from the Town fifty foot buffer which was required I think there is only a twenty foot buffer, got a variance. This man is going from a fifty foot buffer to a hundred foot buffer the opposite. I mean we have got to do something in the near future about taking care of this property and I happen to think this is a good plan. The man is basically or whoever owns it today is giving up half the land to green space which I think is a suitable use. I just do not see this land ever being developed as residential property. But, mainly the other thing I would like hopefully we would look into that whether or not land gets rezoned again in this town without, with our new master plan without notifying the owner of the land, that, that is going to take place and how it effects him. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Betty? MRS. BETTY MONAHAN-Good evening, Betty Monahan, Queensbury, Sunnyside I have to take a great deal of exception to what Mr. Kenny just said. I have researched in depth the minutes of that committee that met for the 1988 Master Plan, the only, in the minutes the only comment made about this piece of property is that the committee felt that the rights of the residents had to be preserved. Now, he talks about notifying people, supposedly the citizens of the United States and in Queensbury are intelligent people. Supposedly as citizens we should be interested in Town government we should be interested in what is going on. In that Master Plan of 1988 the rezoning there could not have been more meetings more meetings taken back to neighborhoods to advise people what was going on. More publicity all this was before the public hearings so that the Town Board had the input of the people in the neighborhoods before they then went to work on the final product and had the public hearings and I comment that when the Federal Government makes changes in the internal revenue code do they send notices to all of us or are we supposed to be alert public citizens. Where has this feeling come from that we are supposed to take every body by the hand and show them and guide them where is their responsibility as responsible U.S. Citizens and citizens in the Town of Queensbury. And Mr. Kenny talks about this piece of property your obligation is not to this piece of property, your obligation when you look at a rezoning is what is the benefit to the or the detriment to the community as a whole vs the rights of the applicant. And that is your charge. He would have you just look at the rights of that piece of property the applicant, that is not your job. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, Sir, Dan? MR. DANIEL OLSON-Daniel Olson, 29 Carlton Drive, Queensbury. I am going to try not to repeat what has already been said most of the people have stated the facts that I was, my concerns and some of our other peoples concerns in the area. I just want to remind, I just want to bring out that the neighbors that have spoke tonight the people that live in the immediate area that are expressing their concerns the real people, they live there they have brought up their families there they have had mortgages at banks they put additions on their houses. They have seen their families grow up and going back into the neighborhood, you know they have had health problems they have sickness, they have had death but they all enjoy living there and they have, that has been their lively hood, that has been their life. So, these are real people they are not coming here with just a thought in their mind to be a radical person to try and harass you they are coming here with real concerns from the heart and from their own families. You look at the parcel and you look at what land is left there after they proposed buffer proposed its like it appears that someone is trying to dump five quarts of liquid into a one gallon container. It is just not going to work it is not going to fit. You can hire anyone can propose or hire any consultant or anyone to give them an answer on a project. I am not saying they are giving you the wrong answer but they are employed to give you the answer that you want to make a presentation with. That does not mean their answer is wrong it does not mean that it is right but I cannot believe that the Attorney that made the presentation this evening, Mr. Lemery would tell us that they put stock in an engineering consultant, traffic consultant who has been on the project supposedly reviewing it the traffic conditions when a major construction started in January of this year on a bridge construction everyone that lives there knows that there is less people using Aviation Road today during the construction period there is less people using the bridge so you cannot get a true picture of what is happening there right now. I am sure an educated guess or an educated answer would be that you build in factors of growth or factors of development. Well once this bridge is done and the road is re-constructed there is no way of telling what that growth is going to be. We know it is going to increase we know it is going to develop, but who knows if it is going to develop to what basic schedules are? The idea was brought up this evening of putting things on hold and not doing anything with this and I would support that issue also. Until you see what happens to the Aviation Mall project, we know a major restaurant is now gone a major motel is gone a gas station has been talked about and written up in one of the local papers as being sold that leaves one gas station on that side of the road. Who know what else has been sold down through there if it is all fact or if some of it is fiction. Other exists off the Northway coming of the ramp at nineteen could go into Aviation Mall. These are possibilities it has been talked about. There is a whole lot of things going on in that neighborhood and I think the traffic is going to change, the traffic is going to get heavier. To sum this thing up and let just to repeat again what I said these people had real concerns I have seen many projects since I have lived in the Town of Queensbury when an engineer and architects that were going to leave that forever green space, we are going to leave those trees forever. Well, what happens the bulldozers get in there the backhoes the earth moving machines with the big scoops that are drawn, the . . . I think they are called and they start relocating soil the trees do not stay all of a sudden the machines run over the trees and knocks them down and I know the Town goes out and say you violated this order here and we have to impose a fine on you or something but at that point the trees are gone. That is like a person you know getting run over with a vehicle they are dead. Its too late the trees are gone, once they are gone there is no one here that has a life time long enough to see those growth of new trees grow up to what is there today. I cannot believe with the elevations and the center of that property that they could build there without disrupting the property around the edges to bring the elevation up, the grade up to meet, because it is an awful drop off the front of that property from Route, on Aviation Road going into it. That is all I have to say, I do not know what requirements you will have or what restrictions you put on it, what guarantees you have that the nature trees that are growing there today that have been there maybe for seventy five or a hundred years would still be there. The brush around them would still be there where the rabbits live in and the squirrels and the birds. Thank you for your time. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you, Dan. Anyone else care to, yes, I am sorry, Jamie? MR. JEREMY HAMMOND-My name is Jeremy Hammond, I am a citizen of Queensbury. A lot of this you have already heard but, being a teenager who just graduated I have to repeat myself and what I have learned from the bigger folks in back. As I said, as I have said many times, my dream is to come back to Queensbury and live here. Well, and I would like to live here and I would like to work here that does not mean working at the Cracker Barrel, I still see myself retiring here, by the way just so you guys know and not living here. I went for a ride probably about three or four months ago and I ended up as I was going through Kentucky Fried Chicken to get you know to the other side near the mall to by pass that whole area. I went through and I stopped, stopped by vehicle and I turned off my motor and then I just listened, I listened for quite a while, that is what I recommend that you do. Table this, go into the neighborhood, park your car and let the neighbors look at you funny, whatever, but listen, listen to what you hear. Listen to KFC, True Value, McDonalds, listen to who is ordering fries today, literally this can all be heard in that area. I am not sure if I can hear Aviation Road because I hear everything else. But, that land is needed, I mean, after you vote to rezone or not, if you vote to rezone it the only thing you are going to hear in that neighborhood is the price of the land falling, literally. The price of their land is just going to fall like a rock, I really feel bad if it happens. I am sorry, I am sorry for the children of the foundation, I am sorry that the foundation would put them through this, to use their name to, it just disgust me. I have no children that have passed on and of bad illnesses, I know children that ride their bikes down Aviation Road and play in those neighborhoods I think we have to remember, charity makes us all feels good but don't forget the people and children you will be effecting the children here at home. They need that, they need that space. Who knows maybe someday the people back here there children will move in to the houses you need to think of that future. And one last thing about the straw vote, I do not know who brought up, maybe we should have a straw vote but I totally agree, these are the citizens back here. That lawyer that stood up he called us an audience, we are not an audience we are citizens that voted for you gentlemen and I think that we need to see a show of hands just to give you to extend to you that we are citizens and we voted for you and we want you to do the right thing and vote no on rezoning. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. Ok. Yes, Sir, over here, to my left? MR. CHARLES ADAMSON-My name is, can you hear me? My name is Charlie Adamson I live in North Queensbury I am not, I do not live in the area of the mall, but I travel in that direction led by car very frequently on two fifty four. I find the traffic situation there quite dangerous the way they speed and cars coming on to two fifty four and coming out. The approving what is in front of you tonight would only increase that. But, more then that the expansion of the mall is something that should give you a red light, not to do anything with this at all because of that expansion of the mall I think is going to have I cannot imagine that the effect on the area is going to be good. It may be good for some businesses but the traffic there will be something unbearable and as I talk as an outsider and I am scared to go through there sometimes. But, they have an inexpensive gas station that is why I go down there. But, all I can say is that my quoting words are that if the Board votes for rezoning I suspect it will go down in infamy. SUPERVISOR CHAMP AGNE- Thank you. Anyone else? I have a hand over here to my right. MS. KATHLEEN CLEMENTS-My name is Kathleen Clements, I live at 2 Greenway Circle it is a cui de sac I want to tell you that I leave for work every morning around seven a.m. and recently there has been more traffic on Old Aviation Road then there has ever been in the past. Three beer trucks came down that road and never stopped at the stop sign, proceeded right down through Old Aviation Road now where were they delivering to, Kentucky Fried Chicken? Beer battered, I am not sure. But, we have also had more traffic in our cui de sac in the last couple of weeks then we have ever had and we have two small children that come there to live, to visit and they play there and they have the right to be able to play there and be safe. My sister and her husband recently bought that house eighteen months ago with the hopes of having some equity in it and retiring there and if this goes through they are going to lose some of that equity and that is not fair to them they have worked almost fifty years to have this and it is only fair that they are able to keep it. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Anyone else? Yes, sir. MR. HARRY TROELSTRA- My name is Harry Troelstra, I live at 2 Carlton Drive. There is a few things that I would like to point out basically I get a little annoyed and some other people probably too how this traffic study was made. I would like to point out a few things on this nice drawing, I would like to compliment the company who ever drew this it looks very nice on paper, but in reality is it going to be like this? They made some promises and I dealt with Mr. Lemery a long time promises have been made but whether they were kept is another question. I see on one of the things here is the stacking of the traffic and I would like to point that out. We have all these engineers telling us that this stacking here will work. Now, I would like to see anybody coming up here and finding that there is room for two cars up to this point here to be on Greenway North, here. Now, what if, in eliminating those people the busses, the travel trailers thinking they are going to make that light and the reality the traffic stops. What are they going to do? They are totally blocking the traffic for everybody else. There is no way that it ever will change. Everybody always tries to make the yellow light if you do not make it you either get one way or the other you get hung up if the other guy stops here, just before you, you just cannot make it. These are the situations that is what happens. They will never know when the light is going to change number one probably they cannot see it. So, I do not think the stacking even though they made a beautiful picture out of it they moved the parking back but I do not think that is going to work in reality. There are a couple of other things that I question here, they pack one hundred and fifty five cars I do not know they after taking and have not counted the parking spaces, after taking the parking spaces away where the stacking is happening now, whether there is a reduction in parking lots or how they managed to get more parking lots in this place. I have not seen an explanation on that I have not had time to look at these drawings I have time to count them. I am wondering what happened to the extra parking lots that have been taken away now? The other thing that bothers me a little bit they are going to see an awful lot of people I think something like one hundred and eighty maybe the figures have changed I do not know I have not heard that tonight. Originally they were talking one hundred and fifty people for employment and at an earlier date we were not allowed to talk about that maybe tonight I can. If they have shift changes and the shifts are as such that every shift there should be about forty people working right now having one hundred and twenty to one hundred and thirty people working there. That means probably approximately forty cars, forty employees having to, will have to park on the property. That is all nice and dandy, fine, but now the shift changing occur, the guy is still working and a new guy is coming in where is he going to park? Technically with a change like that you should allow more than forty cars for employees. I am just questioning how they you know where the people are going to park they are not going to park on Greenway North, they are not going to park Aviation Road, how are they going to run the business with less parking lots I do not know. Also, as a landscaper in my business the proposed edges planting they do not say what they are going to plant they kind of just smear something in your eyes we are going to plant this. They have done this before at a previous meeting they gave us plans in the form of George Pfeiffer property and the edges they were three to four feet tall they had a brume of approximately to our configuration six foot tall, so basically you looking down at the plants. They do not come with any proposal how replanting or how the buffer zone is going to look. I think we ought to know how they buffer all the open spaces on the George Pfeiffer property before a decision is being made. All that buffering they are talking about they are not stopping the noise levels and everything else we have heard tonight. I can vie that this is a big problem. I choose to live on 2 Carlton Drive right behind one of my businesses. I cannot talk about it because according to Mr. Lemery it said you do not want it because it is competitive and I know it is true. Nobody likes competition but I also what I would like to point out to you how I ended up on Aviation Road and Carlton Drive on that corner. Back in 1981 if I recollect it well, I was looking for a piece of property I took a ride with a couple of my kids up to Saskatchewan and we said wouldn't it be nice that someday we could build a country store. Yea, these are kids sixteen, seventeen years old. We looked at many barns we threw a lot of ideas together we came back and came upon a piece of property what was called the Texaco Station then at that time. We looked at it we were able to finance something through the bank if everything worked. I need three months to go through all these different town board meetings to see if whether the Town would agree then we could build whatever we proposed. The lawyer for Texaco did not want me to get, did not want to give me the three months. After that we said ok, lets look around a little bit more. We approached this land at that time was owned by Charles Wood, I did not know what the size of the lot was I had done work for Mr. Wood I called I could get no answer. We called a second time we got the word not available. So, we searched on the mall had developed we looked at a piece of property which now is Burger King I did not know who owned it, I put the Realtor to work on it and he said it is owned by Mr. Wood, well can you find maybe out if that is for sale? I got the word back, not available. A year later, this is 1980 the later part of 1981 all of a sudden there was anotherfor sale sign on the Texaco Station I thought it was gone or what ever I went back it was a lawyer for Connecticut handling the case and he said sure I will give you three months and this is how we ended up on Carlton Drive corner. But, in the mean time in 1982 I found out that I had rights to a certain degree with protect my business from getting more competition. If I may talk about it I will explain it right now to Mr. Lemery so he can see why I do not want competition there. The competition that I would not expect is anything that would be developed on this piece of property which I more likely would think would be something like a restaurant. We looked at that for several reasons many of the places that whatever was established was established there was a motel there was a house that was not very suitable that we call it the green house in the back and that is about all that was left on this road up to Route 9 just about. Right now I am living on 2 Carlton Drive, I chose the piece of property I had basically because by working there and seeing how the neighborhood was I did not need a big house the house came available I created the nice back yard I love to live there I do not mind the traffic too much but I have peace. But, I do know that living at 2 Carlton Drive I got the mess from the Hess Station in my front yard I would like to grow a nice flower garden, constantly picking out the blue towels. And I have said this before when the Blacksmith Shop was putting the stakes on the grill I could always smell the stakes, etc. etc. and don't tell me if you put a Cracker Barrel in this place that the people up there will not know that there is a Cracker Barrel, they will smell it they will hear it they will see it. You cannot hide it. I think these people including myself all our rights are going to be taken away if this piece of property is being rezoned. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, John, are there first go around? Have we got any others out there for the first time? Ok. I guess we do not. Ok. John why don't you do it? MR. LEN VEZINA-My name is Len Vezina I am the site development manager for Cracker Barrel. It is Vezina Sitting here this evening I heard many concerns and comments of which many were, which many are totally out of our control. Of those are inn our control I think we have addressed in our site plan design. We have provided for more than adequate buffers we provide parking that exceeds the parking requirements for the zoning district. We have addressed the traffic concerns from a design and engineering perspective both of ingress and egress and stacking and so on. This site has not been maximized as far as it impervious surface and its design, trust me there are other sites out there and thirty five different States and three hundred and fifty five different locations that don't maxi..that aren't as maximized as this one. Or I should say have been designed, substantially more than this site. There are a couple of comments this evening that were raised that I just need to clarify. First off Cracker Barrel's hours of operation we open at 6:00 a.m. and we close at 10:00 a.m. Sunday through Thursday...I am sorry that is correct 10:00 P.M. We are open from 6:00 a.m. to 11 :00 P.M. Friday's and Saturdays. At, none of our locations within out twenty eight years of doing business have we ever been open twenty four hours. Weare a large company naturally, we are in thirty five different states we have three hundred and fifty five plus or minus stores I would like to think that we are good corporate citizens in these communities and that we become part of the community and we are pro-active in that community in sponsoring softball, baseball thus our employees also becoming part of the community in civil activities and so on. We would like to become a corporate citizens in the Town of Queensbury. We feel that this is the only site within this, along this corridor that suites our demographic and design needs. It is the only site yet undeveloped. I cannot quite fathom how Cracker Barrel' development can impact the traffic to the extent that I have heard aired this evening. We took the liberty of conducting traffic studies and determining peak generation periods and we pretty well trust our consultants. We feel that we are not going to impact the roadways to the extent I think some of the citizens feel we may. There are obviously traffic problems out there, I think we are optimistic that the road improvements to the overpass will elevate some of these concerns. I just wanted to also address the bus and RV and truck access on our properties. We do not allow tractor trailers on our property with the exception of those trucks that make deliveries of our merchandise and products. Those deliveries are made during peak periods I should say are made during off peak periods we actually have signage at our driveway entrances that say no tractor trailers. We do promote RV and bus traffic a lot of our customers are travelers who do take our road maps and schedule their stops around our locations. Be they out on a tour with a group on a bus or in their RY. We do have a loyal following we would like to hopefully appeal to some local citizens here. I would hope that a lot of the citizens in this audience would frequent out restaurant. In a nut shell I just wanted to clarify those points before the Board this evening and just make myself available for any comments. Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Ok, thank you Len. Yes. Judy, oh I am sorry I called on a gal right behind you there. I am sorry I did not see your hand. MS. - I lived in Knoxville, Tennessee form 1989 to 1993 I traveled all through this south when we went down to Mississippi State to visit my younger brother who is a nuclear physicist now over in Denmark we stopped at 3:00 a.m. at a Cracker Barrel coming into Ashville Tennessee, the Cracker Barrel there we stopped at 4:00 a.m. as we traveling down from New York into Tennessee, I am kind of confused so I am being called a liar that they are not open at 24 hrs. a day and they go according to peak seasons because if you go to Gatlinburg which Asheville is off of those or seasonal and they open twenty four hours during the prime season. I know that I worked down there I worked for a drug testing laboratory that tested the employees, I know how they are open because if an employee was hurt on the job they were sent to our lab. then and there our lab. was a twenty four hour lab. I am offended. And you better check your own companies policies. That is all I have to say. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Ok. Thank you. John, recycle here? Come on up. MR. GORDON ADELSON -Quite all right you are allowed to make an error which I think you will be doing if you rezone that. I will repeat my name Gordon Adelson and I am a new resident in the area. I do know having been in the building trade for forty three years I retired a year ago this past February, thank goodness that those artist renderings are beautiful some young person sits there and makes his glorious vision of what we are going to have and in effect when you see the facts very often, more often than not it really doesn't appear like that. It is a far different picture that is number one. Number two, very often this type of establishment is the most basic entry level type of job opportunity for people and the incomes that they afford the people that they work there are the most base. Very often just barely Federal Minimum. It this really what you want that young lady mentioned before we have to try and build a community where the people have an opportunity to make a good living five dollars and change an hour is not good living. You do not survive on five dollars and change an hour, even for a child a young person this is not something for them. If you want to attract, I agree if you I said this before, we must have a good tax basis if you want a community you need money. But there are better types of establishments which would better suit our needs as a community then that. Thank you. MR. JOHN STROUGH-John Strough Queensbury Well, my next item to discuss is the configuration of the lot. And that is a nice artist rendering it does not show the ten degree compound slope but what I mean by ten degree compound slope is we all know Aviation Road slopes down this way further more between Aviation Road and Old Aviation Road it dips this way so you have a compound situation. Now, the pictures that we are looking at don't account for that very well because in order for them to get anywhere near level they are going to have to bring in considerable about of fill. That picture on the bottom there is I think really erroneous. What, by the time they get done bring in the fill what is going to happen over in that northeast corner of Cracker Barrel that is going to be several feet maybe seven or eight, nine, ten feet high? In order for it to attain any where near level, now that picture does not depict all the fill that is going to be brought in, that picture doesn't show we have retaining walls there because I do not see any slope of any land on that picture because that would also SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Obviously, John, it is pretty hard to show a three dimensional picture of that kind of thing in the site plan review will come later on down the road if all this happens. MR. STROUGH-.. .my point being that I eventually going to get to Fred, is that even Cracker Barrel once they find out dealing with the site plans issues and the configuration of the land may find that they even have less parking area then they have now. I mean, it is entirely possible that this may not be a spot that Cracker Barrel wants. Further more where we come in on Greenway North in just ten feet there is a six foot drop, ok. Now I do not know if Cracker Barrel is familiar with our letters but that is one heck of a slope. Now, if they are going to bring that right up to meet Greenway North and make that kind oflevel I am talking even more fill now when I am talking fill the lights of those cars, see all those car are parked on the outside of the parking lot where are all those headlights going to be shining into? I mean after you account for the fill, now we are up about seven, eight, ten feet, now you are up at the height where those homes are on Old Aviation and you are at the height of the actually the upstairs bedrooms on Birch Avenue. So, what we are trying to say here is that this type of use is a very intensive use and will have a severe impact on that, those people living in that area. Not only that I am not convinced by that stacking picture that, that is going to solve the problem of the traffic in that area. We have to keep in mind that the Greenway North is only, the only signalized access area to that whole neighborhood. So, now they are going to have to fight or what is it one hundred and nineteen cars per hour I think they put in their seqra report, well we will get to that in a minute. Here is another thing, a thought, now, they wanted a hundred feet now they said one hundred feet from Aviation Road, they did not say one hundred feet from their property line, they cannot give you one hundred feet from the Old Aviation Road, because we own it. We own part of what they are promising as a buffer we own it, now you and I wonder if we want to widen Old Aviation Road someday we can do it, because that is our property. Nothing to do with Cracker Barrel so there goes the buffer zone so now we are down to what, seventy five feet again. Lets talk about seventy five feet, one hundred feet. I own a home on West Mountain Road, I do not live in it, I built another place further away from West Mountain Road. Now the home I owned on West Mountain Road had at least one hundred feet of dense wooded area not only could I hear every car that went by and every accident that occurred on that corner near Mountain View Lane comes into West Mountain Road but I can hear a jogger go by. That is one hundred feet of woods. It means nothing, I can hear a jogger go by let alone you know I can see all the cars and the head lights coming out you know always flashing through the woods. Now that is one hundred feet of woods. I am not talking about restaurant odors and foreigners coming in and everything else, you know just foreigners I mean people from out of the area. I am a true Queensbury person, I am never leaving the area by the way..then I will be back. But, in any event that one hundred foot barrier isn't a real barrier not for an intensive use like this. Now, I have suggested previously to you that other uses which would be commercial uses but not as intense as this, where the property owners could make their money and the neighbors could be protected would be the best route to go. Even the comprehensive landuse people they suggested and it is in the book you saw that, they suggested and this is 1998 and they said the same thing in 1988, that zoning this Plaza Commercial or Highway Commercial would be too intensive would harm the neighborhood isn't that considerate of those people who have been living there previous to Exit 19 and all of that. Even in 1998 the committee suggested that, that piece of property not be zoned Highway Commercial or Plaza Commercial they recommended an office, cultural use. You know and as far as rezoning properties I have seven acres that was zoned commercial right over near the million dollar half mile that was rezoned on me to residential well that is a sacrifice that we have to make for the benefit of the community. I was never notified but that is part of the process. We all have to make our sacrifices and sometimes for the benefit of the community. And this is another case where maybe a sacrifice the individual the landowner cannot get maximum use as kind of a sacrifice for the betterment of the community. Have I used up my five minutes? I got more? But, I am, I am just getting warmed up actually. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Lets see if there is anyone else out there, John, I just want to make sure everyone has everything they want to say, we have got some other hands you are going to have to come back. Yes, please. MS. KATHRYN KELL Y-I am Kathryn Kelly I spoke to you before. I just want to make one comment. Years ago went the Red Lobster was supposed to come to the same area we were all stressed out we went to all the meetings and we were trying to tell them we are not against the restaurant but it is not a location, traffic wise and for the safety of the neighborhood to maintain the neighborhood. The Cracker Barrel and the Attorneys told us well then Cracker Barrel, oh never happen that the Red Lobster comes in. Red Lobster did come in and they have a terrific location where there is no impact on the local community and you go by there at lunch time in the evening they have a lot of business and I am sure they have more business then they would have had on Aviation. That is all I wanted to say. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I saw another hand back there, yes. MR. CHRIS VANDERZEE-Again my name if Chris Vanderzee and I live on Greenway North and I just wanted to point out one thing that has not been mentioned all these eight, nine, ten feet of fill is being brought in and those are nice trees that exist but with all this moving around dirt is going to get pushed up against those trees and no, they are not going to cut them down but by putting a foot or two of dirt up against them, biology one or one says that is going to kill those trees and what is going to happen in a year or two years from now those trees are all dead. How can we replace them then? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Over here, yes. MR. DAVE CAPRON-My name is Dave Capron I live at 1 Greenway Circle it is cul de sac just behind. I would just like to point out one thing about the density of that woods. My home is right in this area here going down Old Aviation Road behind the row of houses that is here. During the winter months I can sit in my dining room and watch traffic coming up through the New Aviation Road. I mean that is from here all the way through, so that all of these pine trees that they are talking about are really leaf trees the majority of them. MS. DONNA HARRIS-Hi, Donna Harris, 7 Birch Lane, Queensbury. And they are lovely drawings. I am not a tree hugger but there are alternatives to this where the charity could get their money the citizens could be happy and we could have trees. It is not going to generate tax dollars, my understanding is you didn't get a lot of tax dollars from Charlie Wood when he did own it as residential it was like two grand a year. I did speak to Joe Mortense of the Open Space Institute they are aware of this piece of property because of the Red Lobster thing and the Cracker Barrel thing word gets around and they said that they would be interested in looking into it but they were not able to do anything with it this year because they have already budgeted all their money for 1998. I do not know how to go about pursuing things with them further I do not think that the charity gets the money for the sick kids that they would object to having trees there. It is not that they would make it for ever green place either, they have been known to take a little tiny patch of land in Glenmont and turn it into a baseball field. That is not a good place for a baseball field, but again, Queensbury does not have a library, there is a lot of things Queensbury doesn't have that could go on that piece of property. Professional Office use I would accept that, seventy five feet behind my house I would accept it. It is not just the smells, I do not know as a little kid I had an Uncle who lived right behind a Pizza Parlor and his car was always covered with grease, in fact he was always known as greasy Uncle Joe. I do not want to be greasy Aunt Donna. A restaurant is the worst possible thing you could put there and Harry is right you do we used to smell stake it was kind of nice in the winter it was like a year around cook out you know you are always smelling stake. You could tell the weather by what you are smelling, because if I am smelling chicken something bad is coming in. But, if they are not going to allow tractor trailers in there the tractor trailers are going to park on the side street bring busses in there, busses have been a problem for me I do not have a problem with black people I do not have a problem with that there people are in prison I have a problem with that they like to get in my back yard and play on my trampoline I do not care where they came from I have had people in my back yard playing on my trampoline or shooting hoops while they are waiting for everybody else to get their chicken and get back on the bus. So, my yard is the recreation area. It is too much activity to bring that close to a residential, the residences were there first and these are not expensive houses these are the kind of houses where people put their life savings into earning a little bit of the American dream. Do you hear violin music? I do not mean to sound this way it is just I do not under, I really feel that Charlie Wood has gotten his buck for that whole piece of land that he had and I am sorry that this little triangle got let there and got left out of the whole big picture. I do not think that it is right to jeopardize the property values of one hundred and twenty to one hundred and fifty homes in the area for the sake of the putting you know something that is going to be a negative impact on our community there. If it was a positive impact I would not argue with you at all. I do not want to argue any more. Thank you very much, I am not good at this. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Ok. Anyone else that would care to address the Board. We are back to John Strough for the last time. Come on up, John. MR. JOHN STROUGH-John Strough, A couple of things that I want to address, more. The Seqra, the applicants Seqra, why was it so site specific I mean the purposely identifies the Cracker Barrel, as the enterprise going in there when we are asking for a rezoning. I am just wondering that does that mean are we rezoning this for the Cracker Barrel and only for the Cracker Barrell . SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-As far as, and I will speak only for myself John and say you know it is a rezone, rezone, it has got nothing to do in my opinion with Cracker Barrel, or whom ever. MR. STROUGH-So that the SEQRA SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I think it is a rezoning I have read the SEQRA through but I mean its they have titled Crackle Barrel in there but it does not necessarily mean that it is going to be a forever Cracker Barrel. MR. STROUGH-Well I have my problems with the SEQRA too, I mean for one thing they use the Warren County Soil Conservation survey as I guess everybody does but and it is a general survey but it is not site specific. I was just wondering if there was any test holes drill on this piece of property to determine the type of soils and the water table level and the depth to bedrock? No. UNKNOWN-Are you talking for storm water? MR. STROUGH-Well, I am talking about in their survey they talk about the type of soils in the SEQRA and they took their accounting from the Warren County Soil Conservation survey, but no site specific studies have been done I do not think. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-John, there is no reason for that to be done at this point, I hear what you are saying that when site plan review kicks in the Planning Board gets it then we are going to make sure that the feets to the fire and that all of these meet you know our standards, our specs, but it is premature, you have got to take it one step at a time, I guess. MR. STROUGH-All right, looking at their SEQRA, I just have questions about what they say is the percentage of slope area I have a question about that, and that they do point out that is this project site presently used by the community or neighborhood as an open space or recreation area and they did put down yes to their credit. Does the present site include scenic views, known to be important to the community? And they put down yes, to their credit. Now, the number of off street parking spaces they are proposing is one hundred and forty nine I believe that has changed a little bit. That maximum vehicular trips generated per hour was one hundred and nineteen so it was right about that. That is one hundred and nineteen cars moving in and out of there per hour peak hour. It is a lot of movement in that little Greenway North strip which is the only signaled access to that neighborhood. There is a residence on that property by the way and it does have I know that is a civil matter and does have deed restrictions and I know the neighbors are going to fight it so there is another thing Cracker Barrel would better be prepared for that is all. I have nothing against, I have heard a lot of good things about Cracker Barrel as a matter of fact Seven Steers might be a good location for it. All right with the project use herbicides or pesticides they said no, now if they are planning to do some plantings and things like that I am sure they are going to use some pesticides so I had a little problem with that. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-John, and I do not mean to jump in here the point being, believe me we will go through this SEQRA step by step page by page item by item it is premature tonight in my opinion to take us through that as you are trying to do. There will be another opportunity you know to do the SEQRA at which time I would love to have you come in and go through as you are doing now. Am I right in saying that Board? I do not want to jump into this I think we are here tonight to MR. STROUGH-I am just saying was are looking at rezoning this thing they have supplied to you information that I disagree with and maybe you do too, I mean you know. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-All I am saying is before I rezone this I will go through the SEQRA, this Board will sit here and we will go step by step one by one MR. STROUGH-Save the SEQRA for later is that you are saying? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-I am asking you to do that if you would. MR. STROUGH-Ok. Now SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Is that fair enough? I mean you have got the floor it is your mic honey but do what you have got to do. MR. STROUGH-Now, I call the Sage Road connector that is my next topic. Now. Sage Road was a road that went right through this property back in the old days and it was a town road. Now, Charlie Wood and the Town made a swap plan I think Charlie Wood gave up a little section ofland where the town got its sign. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Correct. MR. STROUGH-And the town gave Sage Road. Ok. So, no problem with that but, it just works out, where am I, page 54, page 53B now what do you think of my rendering of Sage Road or the connector road. On page 53B, now I am considering the malls expansion I have also seen where the mall would like to put a third access. It is right across from this property. Now, doesn't it make sense wouldn't it be cost effective and be the most logical thing, that if we do go with a connector road someday that it go, bring right over to Route 9. Right in this third access point from the mall. Lets not put, what did I say, the cart before the horse. Ok. Now, I would like to read what Warren County Planning Board had to say. Alright, due to the incompatibility of the proposed landuse with the surrounding landuses. Increased traffic negative impact on the existing uses, decreased property values this proposal does not protect the existing community character and also the Board would also like to include the staff comments attached. All right, the rezoning should not be confused by the proposal to locate a specific type of highway commercial or plaza commercial as it later came to be, at this location. The rezoning request will rezone the property to highway or plaza commercial and will allow a number of other commercial uses that might not be compatible in this area. In otherwords we are not just talking Cracker Barrel there is a potential I do not know what, something could be worse. Ok, They do go on to say the existing traffic highway conditions the traffic accidents in the area at the intersection of Aviation Road, Greenway North and Old Aviation Road, the geometry of those intersections and the topography and grade changes present potential traffic problems. These problems will not be mitigated without significant capital improvements to Aviation Road, Greenway North and Old Aviation Road, should development be permitted at the proposed location. Additionally site distances, travel speeds, turning distances and interruptions in traffic flow will all be negatively impacted in this proposal. To me that is common sense. Now, I know the applicant submitted traffic studies and we all know traffic studies, right? All right, the present zoning classification of SFRIO does not appear to be an inappropriate classification for the property. The neighbors are willing to come to a mid way point. In otherwords sure, they would love it to stay wooded. They would love it to stay you know, residentially zoned. The applicant wants the other end and I have made the suggestion, there is a middle ground here, and I think it would work for everybody. And for ten years the Comprehensive Land use Plan in 1988 and 1998 both said the same thing. Warren County Planning Board says the same thing. I mean there is a lot of intelligent people here looking at this and coming to these conclusions. So, I think it merits looking at what they said. I am going to read a little of James Counselor ..this comes up from an article he wrote how to mess up a town. James Counselor is what he is a zoning, planning expert Saratoga plight has been aggravated by the fact the north most of its gates exit 15 of interstate 87 lies within the adjoining town of Wilton which has aggressively turned the land around exit 15 into an feeding frenzy. For mall builders, national discount stores, franchise drive pits, and other agents of suburban sprawl inorder to pay for its growing roster of revenue loser residential subdivisions. Wilton has become the anti Saratoga both in physical layout and economically. It's chain stores sucking the life blood out of down town Saratoga. Wilton of course will have to suffer the consequences of its headless and brainless growth. I believe that survey of its type will begin to ... out alarmingly soon. Historically, Americans have not had a high regard for the public realm this is a very unfortunate thing because the public realm is a physical manifestation of the common good. We need degrade the public realm as we have you degrade the common good and hence you impair the ability of a group of people incorporated as a republic to think about the public interest. I think we have to slow down a little bit, think about these things once and a while. If you take a look at New York State, New York State narrative and this is all in the book I amjust going to pick out a couple of sentences and I am gone shortly. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-We do not need eleventh grade history taught to us tonight, John, I just as soon move along here if you can. MR. STROUGH-A couple of other things I just want in the record, I think they are important and I will abbreviate what I was going to say ok? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Beautiful. MR. STROUGH-On you behalf. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-thanks. MR. STROUGH-You are welcome. Local planning and zoning are functions delegated to municipalities for the purpose of promoting the health, safety, morals and general welfare of the community. While restricting and combining landuse, confining landuse, for the betterment of the community. Ok. I will skip that. And even in the Town of Queensbury Code, which I am sure you are familiar with but, just for the record. Ok. The whole code is to promote the health, safety and general welfare of the community protect the property values and asticitics of the community. And, ensure optimum overall conservation protection development and the use of unique scenic esthetic wildlife, recreational open spaces, historic, ecological and nature resource of the Town. Ok. Now, I could go on. COUNCILMAN IRISH-John that is for land that lies with the AP A. That part you just read. MR. STROUGH-Well then it goes down below that for the APA. COUNCILMAN IRISH-That specific paragraph applies to the land within the APA. That part of it. MR. STROUGH-Do you like the concept? COUNCILMAN IRISH-Do I like that concept? I think you should read the whole thing if that is what you are going to do? MR. STROUGH-Well, well, let be get back to it because, I, it goes on in the next paragraph that says that the AP A, I am not going to get into an argument Doug but the concept was there and whether we are talking about the park or not. Ok. Now, the last thing, I just, you know, I am going to shorten this. But a lot of people have come up here and might be in favor or the capital rail project never seem to ask the right the questions, never ask about the traffic they never ask about the environment, they never ask how it is going to affect you know the people next door. Ok. And that is why we come before you the board the moderators, you are the representatives of our community, the care takers of our community you are the fathers of our children. Your job here tonight is to set aside your predijucious whether there be a strong bent for property owner rights or development zeal you must represent the community that is make the only decision that is in accord with good planning, community interest and security for our community and our home Queensbury. We are asking you to build not just an ok. We want the best community and you are here right now we are building the foundational footing for the future. So, I think this is a pretty important topic and thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Now, we have more hands. I thought John was going to be the last one, I put everything away. Come on up Lou. MR. LOU STONE-This is just a very small point. Lou Stone again, North Queensbury. This, I know this traffic study is been done over by Creighton Manning but I just want you to know the kind of people who did the traffic study for this applicant. In a letter dated December 8, 1997 to Mr. Jeffrey Anthony of the LA Group, as agreed it starts we have evaluated the traffic impact of the proposed Cracker Barrel Restaurant on Aviation Road in the City of Glens Falls, New York. Look at the data carefully gentlemen. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-You know and I just I really need to make a point here and I think maybe Ted or Dick will reassure where we are with this. We did meet with DOT last Friday as you probably read in the paper. There are some real concern on the part of the Board whether its the Pyramid expansion or just if nothing was expanding and the Cracker Barrel never arrived we are still going to be in real trouble with Aviation Road, ten years, twenty years down the road. So, this Board I believe will authorize another complete through before we move forward on any rezoning in my opinion we need to have a complete review of the traffic, that is going to be generated between now and twenty years from now and it applies whether it applies to Cracker Barrel or whether its a rezone to any type of commercial that to me needs to be accomplished. Am I right in saying that? COUNCILMAN MERRILL-There has been some discussion of the Greenway connector and I think it is recognized that, that study was made what year, 1991 it was first brought on, a lot of things have changed since then so from where I am coming from I want to see a comprehensive study of the traffic before we move anywhere. COUNCILMAN TURNER-I might add that we are in total agreement about that issue. A total review of all the traffic in that area, so we do not compromise anything. COUNCILMAN MERRILL-We tend to look at things one at a time we tend to segment the projects and we need to take a look at the total picture and that was really our message when we went to Albany, Friday. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Anything else you want to add to that? COUNCILMAN TUCKER-You told me to keep my mouth shut so I will not say a word. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Ah...Pliney you can talk now. COUNCILMAN TUCKER-No. Nothing to say. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-John I guess maybe we could give you a few moments here to do your thing. ATTORNEY JOHN LEMERY-I just want to make a few comments in response I couple of things. There are over twenty thousand residents of the Town of Queensbury and maybe forty thousand residents at last count so far as I know. The Queensbury Town Board so far as I know also appoints the Planning Board of the Town made up of citizens in the Town whose responsibility is to sit at a Planning Board and to deal with Town planning matters. All these folks who spoke here tonight the majority to them spoke at the Planning Board at the last session of the Town Planning Board and they also spoke at the other two applications when this site was before the Town Planning Board. I see the Town Planning Board Chairman here and some other members, the immediate past Chairman and some other members of the Planning Board here tonight. Three separate Town Planning Boards made up of Citizens of the town have voted to rezone this site, Plaza Commercial. After listening to citizens input and the applicants input I think that is meaningful and substantive here in terms of what can be done with this site. We are mindful of the issues that have been generated here with the site with the owner and it is a very difficult thing to try to figure out what is a fair and reasonable approach to this land. Dave Kenny mentioned that Charlie Wood in 1988 did not know how it was rezoned it is my understanding that that was the case, he was not informed that it was rezoned. I have my selflooked at the multi-listing that was given to the multiple listing service and it was listed in 1992 SFRIO Residential Zone property for sale on Aviation Road. The problem that we have got and we have tried to focus this on a land use issue, we have heard everything here tonight that in some ways and I do not mean to get to a point where it becomes charged but that this site is responsible for everything in the Town of Queensbury and not rezoning this site is the, saves everything in the Town of Queensbury. I do not think this site is the issue, here with Aviation Road or 254, you know have before you a plan to rezone Aviation Mall and an eight hundred square foot expansion of Aviation Mall and we are talking about a restaurant and other property here of roughly nine thousand square feet. So, I will leave the math up to you folks, but it does not even count. The traffic that will be generated by the mall expansion are the traffic that will be generated by Lowes on 254 one gentlemen expressed or the traffic generated by Walmart, Kmart, Red Lobster any other kind of retail development in the Town this doesn't even count, in terms of the traffic that is going to be generated by a forty five, forty six, forty seven hundred square foot restaurant, it doesn't even count. But, it counts emotionally because this is a little pocket of land that does protect the residential parcels to the north from some of the encroachment of the Aviation Mall area, and we understand that. The problem is that it is not going to remain the way it is. The pocket park isn't going to remain. We have heard discussions about well, the land institute ought to buy it or the town ought to buy it, I reminded somebody today that there was an opportunity when I think Guido Passarelli offered the town the Round Pond area to buy back some years ago for a recreation area the town passed on it because of the cost. I cannot imagine is about consider buying this piece of land and by the way the purchase price was no where near, no where near the one point three million dollars that some lady mention, not even close, not even close to a million dollars, not even close. So, what do you do with the site, what do you do with a site that is zoned single family residential? Is there anybody in this room who really believes that you can put single family houses on this thing? Everything we have heard tonight along with an expansion across the road it doesn't work. If we get into a situation where you are going to create another separate zone for this one site you are right in to what is called reversed spot zoning. It is spot zoning in reverse. We are going to take a piece of land we are going to rezone it we are going to create a zone and we are going to create a zone for that piece of land. That does not work either. So, it is a very difficult situation that everybody is faced with. What we have tried to do is figure out a way that provides a buffer that protects the people to the north of the site and to the east side, and in a way that it can be protected and preserved on an on going basis. The way the site is zoned now and the position of the site today it is, it does not protect anybody. It does not protect these people who live behind it, not at all, there is no buffer required. There is a fairness issue here at play that has to do with everybody in the Town of Queensbury and I want to comment on one item I want to beg your indulgence a minute and I want to recite something actually that appeared in Mr. in the care package delivered by the Care people. We are trying an anachronism that we could come up with we just could not figure one out we were trying to think of one we had a few but probably nobody wanted to hear them. In exercising there zoning powers the local authorities must act for the benefit of the community as a whole. Following a calm and deliberate consideration of the alternatives and not because of the whims of either an articulate minority or even a majority of the community. What I think we mean by that is that we must look at the balancing of the competing interests. Mr. Strough is right, we have to balance competing interests, but the landowner here has rights just because he is Charlie Wood and I have heard a lot of comment about he does not need it, he is this, he is that, that is an unfair it is not the way I know that you as Town Board members want to treat it and I know you won't. It is not fair either to say ok, we have heard everybody we are going to do nothing with the site we are going to leave it the way it is because what in effect you do by doing that is saying we are just going to let it remain as a pocket park here and I am telling you that, that cannot happen. It is an unfair, unreasonable way to deal with it and nobody here if this was their piece of land and it got stuck like this would want that to happen. There isn't anybody in the room who would want that to happen. So, now we have got a mall expansion across the road which makes it worse we have got the possibility of the Greenway interconnect which in effect takes this piece of land and puts it right in the center of the commercial activity even beyond what it is now. We have tried to figure out a way that protects everybody back there. What the town does neither we can control or the residents control the town has to do what is best for the majority of the people in the Town what works for everybody in the Town not some particular group of people, so we ask you to consider this carefully. I understand that you are dealing with you want to do a traffic study, do I understand that, that traffic study deals with everything on the table today or just this particular site? SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-That is everything on the table. It is the 1998 look at what is there with the new bridge and the future of that whole area up there. So it will be a total picture. ATTORNEY LEMERY-I have been a lawyer, on a side, I have been a lawyer thirty years and my specialty is economic development I counsel to the Capital Region Economic Development Corp. I am a member of the loan committee, I am a Director of the Center for Economic Growth I spend most of my working life dealing with economic development. In some ways the Town of Queensbury is lucky because there is economic development here. It is retail economic development but it is economic development. And, yes, we would like to see manufacturing jobs we would like to see twenty, thirty dollar an hour jobs but unfortunately they are not coming to eastern New York, northern New York and it is not because of what is going on in the Town of Queensbury it is not because of what is going on in the City of Saratoga it all has to do with our sales taxes issues with our utility issues with our income tax issues things that maybe some day we can do something about but zoning and planning are not going to solve it and aren't going to fix it. There is nothing all of us as north country citizens can do about it. So, we have what we have, what we have and in connection with that we have to do appropriate planning and deal with everybody fairly, fairly. What we think is proposed here is a fair and equitable response, we understand that a plan has to be put into effect that keeps that buffer permanent. We are not suggesting anything but that and what ever can be worked out to assure everybody here that, that would be the case we will do. So, and we said it three times to three planning boards and three planning boards have voted to rezone it. Jeff do you have anything to say? MR. JEFF ANTHONY -Yes, I am Jeff Anthony from LA Group I have just got three minor comments to make to clear up some issues on the table. First that site plan that you are looking at it was not just drawn as a picture or an artist rendering, Cracker Barrel invested in a complete topographic survey of this site which was done we laid out this site, did the grading and drainage plan for it even though it has not been submitted and the buffer areas that are rendered on that plan are the areas that will remain uncut, as part of the project development. We can develop that site plan and maintain those buffers without grading into them, without putting soil over the roots or over the trunks or any other portions of the trees. It can be done, we have an engineering plan at the office that is already done. Secondly in terms of maintaining or supplementing the vegetation on either edge of the buffer, no there is not a landscape plan that is here today and we have had one in the past that has been presented to the Planning Board it is an earlier version of a buffer plan or buffer reinforcement plan and you are right that will be part of the discussions with the Planning Board when we get to that point. I have been a landscape architect for thirty years, I have been Chairman of the licensing board for landscape architects for ten years I think I know how to draw a planting plan that will work here. No disrespect to anybody who commented in the other way about that. But we can do a landscape plan that will work on this piece of property. And the only last comment is that the buffers as indicated are from property line to the edge to the interior portion of the buffer and one hundred feet and seventy five feet they are not from the road ridge they are not from any other point on the site plan they are the full width of what will be the buffer. ATTORNEY LEMERY-Thank you. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Thank you.We allowed to ten o'clock I would hate to think that we have got fifteen minutes that someone doesn't have something to say. Other than John Strough, I am sorry about that John. MR. GLEN LUNT -Glen Lunt from Carlton Drive again. You can do all the expensive and sophicated traffic studies you want but it boils down and it doesn't matter to us what is happening out on Aviation Road, what matters to us is our ability to access that road. And those traffic studies that you are doing on Aviation Road we want to know that they are taking into effect our little area of the earth. Thank you very much. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Good point. MR. LUNT-Well see that they do. MR. DAVID STRAINER-My name is David Strainer and I would like to point out something where Mr. Lemery has said that three Queensbury Planning Board have given the ok to this project. Well, on the other side three Warren County Planning Boards have given it the negative side nine 0 every time and three town boards have turned it down also. Lets take both sides of the coin. SUPERVISOR CHAMPAGNE-Ok. Does that rap it up? John you have nothing to say...ok. I guess with that we will adjourn the meeting and close the public hearing. We will be working at it over the next several weeks I am sure. Thank you very much for coming and excellent input. Keep us on our toes. 9:50 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury