2000-05-15
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING
MAY 15,2000
7:00 P.M.
MTG#24
B.H. 15-18
RES. 212-228
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER
COUNCILMAN JAMES MARTIN
COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER
COUNCILMAN DANIEL STEC
COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER
TOWN COUNSEL
ROBERT HAFNER
TOWN OFFICIALS
WATER SUPERINTENDENT, RALPH VAN DUSEN
DEPUTY WASTEWATER DIRECTOR, MIKE SHAW
DIRECTOR OF PARKS AND RECREATION, HARRY HANSEN
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, DAVE HATIN
COMPTROLLER, HENRY HESS
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, CHRIS ROUND
PRESS
POST STAR
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY COUNCILMAN JAMES MARTIN
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Opened meeting.
RESOLUTION ENTERING QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH
RESOLUTION NO. 212,2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. James Martin
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Regular Session and
hereby moves into the Queensbury Board of Health.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
Noes: None
AbsentNone
PUBLIC HEARING - THOMAS CLUNE SANITARY SEW AGE DISPOSAL VARIANCE
OPENED 7:05 P.M.
NOTICE SHOWN
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-Dean Holland who is representing this petition I
don't believe is here tonight so I'll do the best I can to answer questions. What you have before you is a
request for holding tanks on Rockhurst Road. During the winter a delivery truck I believe or a Town
vehicle I'm sure which collapsed what was a seepage pit or some type of pit in relationship to this
residence. Given the fact I think the property is sixty-five feet deep if I recall from the plot plan there is no
other alternative there is no land to put a proper sewage disposal facility. You have basically about seven
feet between the house and the road itself. The other side of the house which would be the lake side there
is about thirty feet frontage thirty to forty feet of frontage from the house to the lake. Given the scenario I
did research DOH regs it is one of the permitted alternatives to install holding tanks for this residence under
the DO ergs so we would not be violating DO regs by approving this variance.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-How big would that tank have to be?
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-It would be three one thousand gallons tanks I
believe if I remember right. I didn't have a chance to read either plan today it's been a week or so since I've
looked at it.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Is the engineer here for that project?
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-Dean Holland was the person who submitted the
application and was also acting as agent I don't see him here tonight.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-It's not his residence it's Mr. Clune's, of course, and the Clune's aren't here
either?
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-Not to my knowledge.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-So you don't see a problem with this remediation?
COUNCILMAN TURNER-They don't have a choice.
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-They really don't have a choice this is about the
only choice they have.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-They have alarms on them or whatever?
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-This will be up to the Town's Code when it is
installed with the alarm system and everything, yes.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Just for the record they are putting they are putting on water saving devices and
all that?
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-I believe so, yes.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-I think we should make that part of our approval if we see fit to do that.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-How old is the camp Dave?
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-I'm not sure of the exact date of the house, but I
would say it dates back to the forties or fifties.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Most of them do up that way.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Any other questions for Mr. Hatin?
COUNCILMAN TURNER-No.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Thank you, Dave.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Thanks Dave.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Any comments from the board.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-No, I don't think he has any other choice due to the size of the lot and what he's
got.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Sixty-five by fifty.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Once this goes into the tank it doesn't go in Lake George anyway. It gets in the
tank and they take it out of there.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Sixty-five feet deep a city lot is bigger than that.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Do I hear a motion on behalf of...
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-You have the public hearing.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-One question why wouldn't he put them in the back of the house no access to
pump them?
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-You would be on the lakeside it would require
an additional variance.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Just more room that's all, I guess it isn't.
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-You couldn't meet the setbacks on the lakeside
of the house.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-You've got to be four hundred feet.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Is that a slab on grade that house?
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-I don't know I can't answer that question.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Any comments from any public, Mr. Salvador.
JOHN SALVADOR-Good evening my name is John Salvador. I'd be interested in the Health Department's
waiver of their requirements of Appendix 75A of the public health code.
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODE, MR. HATIN-In the file there is the copy from the 1996 addition
of the DOH regs which does specifically exempt this project.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Would that be the one you sent us Dave?
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-That's the one I gave you a copy of.
MR. SALVADOR-How does it exempt the project?
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-It says there or to correct existing failing wastewater treatment systems when
no other alternatives exist.
MR. SALVADOR-The first sentence of this paragraph reads, that holding tanks shall not be approved for
new residential construction in otherwords full time or part time occupancy except where the occupancy of
a dwelling is allowed while the wastewater treatment system is under construction so that deals with new
under construction. It goes on to say holding tanks are only intended for use to meet the above-mentioned
exception. That is new construction under construction before its finished.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Or...
MR. SALVADOR-Or to correct existing failing wastewater treatment system when no other alternative. . .
Councilmen MARTIN-The second half of that second sentence there in lies the exception.
MR. SALVADOR-Let's read the next sentence. Holding tanks are not deemed acceptable for long term use
at year round residence due to high maintenance cost and continuous operation attendance. Will this
dwelling be long term use at year-round residence?
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-No.
MR. SALVADOR-It won't be what assurance do we have that it won't be? Holding tanks are not deemed
acceptable for long term use residences. . . .
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-I can tell you right now this is not a year round
residence.
MR. SALVADOR-How do we know it won't be coverted to a year round residence?
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Can we make some kind of condition on the approval. As I remember it has
probably been done in the past that this be limited to a...
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Seasonal use.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-How do you define seasonal...
COUNCILMAN TURNER-It is in the code.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-You confuse me John. One week you're up here telling us...
MR. SALVADOR-Our code defines seasonal use.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Telling us that you want us to put these things on holding tanks and the next
you tell us you don't want us to what do you want us to do?
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Bob do you have a comment on this?
ATTORNEY HAFNER-We think and we have already worked with you on this before is that it fits within
the correcting existing failed wastewater treatment systems when no other alternative exists. It is important
for the board to find that it is a failed system existing residence and that no other alternatives exist. The
next sentence that he is citing doesn't overrule that it's just something for the board to consider in applying
the test it doesn't overrule that exception. If you find those three things you can pass the resolution.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Do we as a board have the power to tell someone that a residence can't be
anything but seasonal use in the future now or in the future?
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-That's not what that condition would say. That condition would merely say
that as far as this one action is concerned we're saying that we're allowing this approval conditioned on that.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Because it is a seasonal use?
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Yeah. I personally would not want to do that because I think your just opening
yourself up.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-It makes me wonder if that would be legal to try to specify something like that.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I've been on the enforcement side and I don't want to be associated with having
to go up there on a weekends, winter time, to make sure somebody's not there.
ATTORNEY HAFNER-The high maintenance cost is the cost to the owner that's their concern.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-There are all sorts off actors that come into play with these types of structures
up there. It likely doesn't have a heating source; it is likely not insulated.
MR. SAL V ADOR- Why not likely those things can be done very easily.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-John if they want to do that then fine. All I know is that we're putting the
sewage into a box and trucking it out not going into the lake.
MR. SALVADOR-The Health Department is concerned about the high cost which people generally try to
avoid and continuous operation attention.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-They have alarms on them and everything.
MR. SALVADOR-Inspection is what they are calling for. The Health Department knows that holding
tanks don't work very long they just don't work. People get tired on the maintenance; people get tired of
the cost. If somebody is going to occupy a dwelling just for three or four months during the sunnner it is a
good suitable solution, I agree.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-What would you have us do John as a Township buy the property and say they
can't use it therefore. Are we suppose to have such laws and restrictions that we deny somebody the
reasonable use of their property is that what you would have us do?
MR. SALVADOR-Not at all.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-What are you advocating then?
MR. SALVADOR-The reasonable use of this property under the circumstances is a seasonal dwelling.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Right, fine.
MR. SALVADOR-Summer. That's the reasonable use.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-And I'll go up there with my seasonal meter and my badge and say you're up
here in the wintertime get out.
MR. SALVADOR-I'll tell you what this board the previous board did in a case where we asked for a
holding tank. They put a condition on it that insured seasonal use. Two conditions no cooking, no sleeping
and bathing facilities.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-No cooking and no bathing facilities.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-If it is a seasonal use how can you deny somebody from cooking in their own
home.
MR. SALVADOR-I'm just telling what the board did they did it.
COUNCILMAN STEC-I disagree with that.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I do, too. Suppose this person that owns this camp wants to be an ice
fisherman and use that camp during the winter months.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-And he catches some fish and he wants to go inside and cook them at his own
stove.
MR. SAL V ADOR- That's okay. The code says seasonal is defined as less than nine months which nine
months it doesn't say. If he is an ice fisherman and wants to use it the nine months....
COUNCILMAN BREWER-How do we calculate the time that he's there John? Do we go up every time
he's there?
MR. SALVADOR-How do you do everything to enforce your ordinances?
COUNCILMAN BREWER-We can't do everything it is impossible to do everything.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-What I would advocate we can go into these things with our eyes wide open
and put meaningless worthless contingencies on resolutions that we know from the onset are not
enforceable.
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-Can I keep this discussion focused a little bit
here. First of all Mr. Salvador is comparing apples and oranges with his project verses this project that's the
first thing. The second thing is our Attorney has already ruled that this exception is applicable to this
application it's up to the board whether they want to approve it or not.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Thank you David.
COUNCILMAN BROWER-Thank you John.
MR. SAL V ADOR-I maintain that it is a violation it is not in conformance with Appendix 75A of the Public
Health Code which you are empowered to...
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-And this is 75A of the Public Heath Law.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-So noted. Anyone else care to speak on this application?
DEPUTY TOWN CLERK, O'BRIEN-Read following letters into the record. Letter from Helen S. Noonan,
66 Rockhurst Road, Cleverdale, New York
May 4, 2000
To Whom It May Concern:
As I am unable to attend the public hearing for application by Thomas Clune on May 15th, 2000 regarding
holding tank variance, let it be known that I have no objection to this application. Thank you. Helen S.
Noonan
Letter dated May 5,2000
From Dr. Henry T. Nagamatsu
Re: Public Hearing on May 15th, for Thomas Clune application for sewage disposal variances.
Dear Sirs:
We have been owners of a summer home on Rockhurst Road for 40 years and have met all the
requirements for septic tank locations, etc. These requirements are necessary for health welfare of people
living on Rockhurst.
Therefore, we object to issuance of variance for holding tanks requested by Thomas Clune and for the sake
of health of residents on Rockhurst we hope that the Queensbury Board of Health will enforce the on-right
disposal ordinance.
Sincerely,
Henry and Emily Nagamatsu
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Any further comment from the board. If not do I hear a motion?
RESOLUTION APPROVING SANITARY SEW AGE DISPOSAL
VARIANCES FOR THOMAS CLUNE
RESOLUTION NO.: 15,2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, Thomas Clune previously filed an application for three (3) variances from provisions
of the Town of Queensbury On-Site Sewage Disposal Ordinance as follows:
1. (136-11(B) of the Town Code requires an applicant to obtain a variance for all holding tanks and Mr.
Clune has requested a variance to allow a holding tank;
2. Mr. Clune has requested a variance to locate the proposed holding tank three feet, eight inches (3'8")
from the dwelling rather than the required ten feet (10') setback;
3. Mr. Clune has requested a variance to locate the proposed holding tank one foot (:1:) (1') from the
property line rather than the required ten feet (10') setback;
concerning his property located on Rockhurst Road on Lake George in the Town of Queensbury, and
WHEREAS, the Town Clerk's Office published the Notice of Public Hearing in the Town's
official newspaper and the Local Board of Health conducted a public hearing concerning the variance
requests on May 15th, 2000, and
WHEREAS, the Town Clerk's Office has advised that it duly notified all property owners within
500 feet of the subject property,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that
due to the nature of the variances, it is felt that the variances would not be materially detrimental to the
purposes and objectives of this Ordinance or other adjoining properties nor otherwise conflict with the
purpose and objectives of any Town plan or policy; and
the Local Board of Health finds that the granting of the variances is necessary for the reasonable use of the
land and are the minimum variances which would alleviate the specific unnecessary hardship found by the
Local Board of Health to affect the applicant; and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Local Board of Health hereby approves the application of Thomas Clune for
three (3) variances from the Sewage Disposal Ordinance to allow
1. Mr. Clune to have a holding tank;
2. Mr. Clune to locate the holding tank three feet, eight inches (3'8") from the dwelling rather than the
required ten feet (10') setback;
3. Mr. Clune to locate the holding tank one foot (:1:) (1 ') from the property line rather than the required ten
feet (10') setback;
4. To include water saving devices.
on property situated on Rockhurst Road on Lake George in the Town of Queensbury and bearing Tax Map
No.: 15-1-48.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
PUBLIC HEARING
AMEND LOCAL BOARD OF HEALTH RES. NO. 12, 2000 REGARDING APPROVAL OF SEWAGE
DISPOSAL VARIANCE APPLICATION OF SHAUKA T BHATTI D/B/A ROADWAY INN, OWNED
BY SNAP MOTEL CORPORATION
OPENED 7:20 P.M.
NOTICE SHOWN
TOM JARRETT FROM JARRETT-MARTIN LLP PRESENT
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Do you want to give us an update on this Tom and Dave I'm going to ask you
for an update, too.
MR. JARRETT -Since the last meeting we've submitted the application for a permit to construct to the
Department of Health and subsequently at the request of the Department of Environmental Conservation to
them as well. We have approval from the Department of Health they made several conditions they ask for
the plans to be updated with some minor changes including showing water systems in the area. They've
also asked up to modify the bed design slightly, which we have done. We did receive written permit to
construct from that department. DEC normally would issue a Spedes Permit upon approval from the
Department of Health, but in this case since we couldn't meet side setback requirements they ask for a set
of plans to review them as well that is outstanding. I tried to call DEC today a number of times to get a
status update and the contact person is out. Weare hoping to have approval by tomorrow or Wednesday at
the latest. We have started prepping the site we have not started installing the wastewater systems because
that would be out of conformance. However, we are prepping the site and are ready to move as soon as we
do have permission. The contractor has said that if we can get permission to construct by Tuesday or
Wednesday that he can have the system built by a week from Friday, which is prior to Memorial Day
Weekend. I'm here to request that we revisit the issue subsequently and let us proceed with constructing
the system while the motel is still in operation.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-What you are asking for is to have the place stay open while under
construction, but your indicating to us tonight that it will be wrapped up prior to the Memorial Day
Weekend?
MR. JARRETT-I'm basing that on getting DEC approval in the next couple of days and I'm confident we
will I can't guarantee it, but I'm confident that we will.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-What happens if you don't get it?
MR. JARRETT-Then I'll be back here telling you I didn't get approval in time.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Didn't we set a date for this?
MR. JARRETT-You set the date of today. We submitted the Department of Health application prior to or
on the date that we last met with you. We got the approval last Friday from them and the DEC told me that
they wanted a copy of that approval and an application so that they could review it. They didn't want to
review until after the Department of Health had approved it.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Having been familiar with this system what's your opinion on this?
MR. JARRETT-What's my opinion on this?
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Do you feel that the system that's there currently prior to this new system going
in can accommodate the flow of what half the facility? We don't want the same thing occurring that
happened last year. . .
MR. JARRETT -Correct.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Where we had raw sewage.
MR. JARRETT -Correct. That was definitely an unfortunate situation from a lot of perspectives. Currently
Mr. Bhatti has twenty-seven motel units and the apartment in the main office building. Six of those motel
units are already served by a system that's not part of this application. It is a system that is not in failure it
is operating satisfactorily. That leaves twenty-one units plus the two-bedroom apartment remaining. The
temporary system that has already been constructed has the capacity to handle under today's codes six
additional motel units. Under prior application rates from the New York State Department of
Environmental Conservation it could handle up to twelve units. The occupancy right now of the motel as I
understand it is essentially weekends only through approximately to late June that's when the occupancy
picks up to a full week. In my opinion right now there is capacity at the site to handle all the wastewater
considering its weekend use. It would not have enough capacity to handle it during July and August.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Have the remedial steps been achieved with the low flow showerheads and the
low flow toilets?
MR. JARRETT-I was told by Mr. Bhatti that they were essentially all complete with some exceptions and
that's been ordered, I believe.
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-I did talk to the contractor who did order them
last week he said they should be in tomorrow or Wednesday, in for delivery he hopes to have those
installed this week.
MR. JARRETT-Those are the remaining units in addition to what was already done. I can't give you
specific numbers, but I understand quite a few were done.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-How do you feel about it Dave?
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-I'm not an engineer I don't design systems other
than typical residential system. My only concern is that I don't want to get the phone call like I did last year
twice on two weekends in a row. The fact that the owner was told to maintain it last year and didn't I have
some reservations I'm not going to say I don't.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-What's the reservation schedule for the Memorial Day Weekend do you have
any reservations?
MR. JARRETT-How do you stand for reservations for Memorial Day Weekend?
MR. BHATTI-Forty percent.
MR. JARRETT -Forty percent he's saying.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Certainly that will rise as the weekend gets near.
MR. JARRETT-That will rise.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-You'll get a lot of drive-ins.
MR. JARRETT -I think that the temporary system and the permanent system that's still in place can handle
that weekend flow. To be safe if you wanted to he could use you have two of the buildings on the holding
tank that weekend under contract with a pump out company that would make automatic calls, automatic
pump out of those tanks during that weekend if you felt more comfortable with that.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-How about the Americade?
MR. JARRETT -Americade is another one that's probably going to be pretty full.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-He should have the work done by then.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-You never know.
MR. JARRETT-I would absolutely think we would, yes.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Has the washer been removed?
MR. JARRETT-I don't know if its physically been removed yet. We know that it cannot be connected to
the system it's not in use at the moment.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-It's not in use.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-It's not connected to the system.
MR. JARRETT-We imposed that last year.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Shaukat are you sending your bedding out your sheets out now?
MR. BHATTI-Yes.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-So your telling me that you can put a couple temporary holding tanks on site
here.
MR. JARRETT-We would use the septic tanks as holding tanks temporarily. Essentially those couple of
weekends are the critical period. The one weekend is the only one that really would come into play.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Is that something we can inspect for to see if they are not hooked up to a leach
system?
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-That's easily done just make sure there is no
outlet pipe.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-That's what I mean you can make sure that it is not connected to a leaching
system.
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-My only concern there is we have no alarm
systems so if it becomes full before the truck gets there then we have a problem with discharge on the
ground. It's not a true holding tank, as we require nowaday.
MR. JARRETT-We can require mandatory inspections from the pump out company make sure that it is
pumped out as needed.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-You must have some history from pumping out last year.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-How big are those septic tanks?
MR. JARRETT-They are a thousand-gallon tanks.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-And there is how many?
MR. JARRETT-There is a separate tank for each building. There are eight units on two of the tanks and
five units on a third one and the apartment on the fourth one.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-When you went to the pump system last year how many of them did you pump
out then when you had the failure?
MR. JARRETT-I don't know exact operational records during last years. Twice a day?
COUNCILMAN TURNER-All the tanks on the site morning and evening?
MR. JARRETT -That was during the summer now.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Yeah, I know actually September.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-There is a big difference between then and now. How do we arrange for some
sort of resolution where we have daily inspection? It's at his expense if he wants to be opened.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-I would think you would have building and codes go up there when they come
with the truck to pump out.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-On the weekend?
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Yeah.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Comp time that weekend Dave.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Last year was bad case of it you don't want it to happen again.
COUNCILMAN BREWER- Absolutely.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Tom are you going to oversee the installation of this?
MR. JARRETT-Yes. The systems will all be under our observation we have to certify the construction.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-As I told you if you need any help getting DEC to speed things up as far as their
permit let me know.
MR. JARRETT -I'm hoping not, but thank you for the offer. I do think this was a serious enough case last
year where the board wants to take every precaution that nothing like this happens again particularly at the
same site.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Dave do you want to comment on this.
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-There are two other issues that have come up
since the last meeting. The board previously put a condition on the existing resolution that says there can
be no kitchen facilities in the motel units, however, we do have a dwelling unit and nobody really thought
of it that night including myself there is a dwelling unit with a kitchen in it. My first take of that is the
board didn't intend for that kitchen and dwelling unit where Mr. Bhatti lives to be taken out. The Attorney
handling the refinancing of this property has asked that that stipulation be put in there that the dwelling unit
kitchen is allowed. The second issue that has come out of that is also whether we will allow a washing
machine in the dwelling unit or not that's something the board has to consider whether you want to exempt
those two uses in the dwelling unit only and not for the motel units.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I really don't have a problem with him having a kitchen in his home.
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-Hejust wants it on the record so if there is a
question down the road it has been addressed in black and white and that was raised by the Attorney
representing the closing.
COUNCILMAN STEC-I don't have a problem with that.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-The laundry unit that's in the dwelling...
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-Apparently Mr. Bhatti has a washing machine in
his dwelling unit for his personal laundry and also kitchen.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-That is a standard house unit not a commercial unit?
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-It's an apartment type unit.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-That's what it has to be though. I don't have any problem with that, but I don't
know what to do about the other. If we had it inspected Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. Then if
the work is not done by, I mean you can't just keep putting it off, putting it off, putting it off, it has to come
to some resolution here.
MR. JARRETT-We understand. I've done my best to expedite approvals and for whatever reasons we have
not been able to get approvals yet we hope to get them tomorrow.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I'm not personally a big advocate of taxpayers dollars going up and our staff
going up on a weekend. I guess I'd like to see a statsus report from you Tom issued to the Supervisor's
Office on the Friday before the weekend. I'm just speaking for me now I don't know what the rest of the
board thinks. Status report as to the status of the permit approvals hopefully this will be a mute point.
MR. JARRETT -I'll provide status reports prior to that.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I was going to suggest maybe the Friday this Friday coming and the Friday
before Memorial Day so there are two in there, but weekly status reports. Then I was going to suggest that
the pump out company be required to keep a log of their visits and pump outs made put the onus on them
and not on our inspection staff.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-But Jim what about like Dave said how do you know if it is going to overflow,
can they put some temporary alarm on it?
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I'm just saying they have to come daily to pump it out whether it needs it or not
that's what I'm saying.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Pump it daily?
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Through that weekend. I'm not so concerned about the time between now and
then we've got relatively light use. I know chances are it is going to fill up that three day holiday weekend.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Is there a way to put a temporary alarm on it?
MR. JARRETT -I think it is easier just to go up and inspect them and pump them out then it is to try and
foul around with a temporary one.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Just schedule them now that they've got to be there everyday.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-What was the history of it before on the pump out because that was in
September?
MR. JARRETT-It was August when the problem occurred September is when we installed the temporary
system. August is when the problem occurred and we had full occupancy and it was a lapsed over a
weekend and I don't even know the whole story Dave has some it the owner has some of the history.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-I was just wondering how many times you've pumped it out during that
weekend? They pump every tank out twice a day?
COUNCILMAN BREWER-He said the morning and at night so that weekend is probably is not going to
be any different than the Memorial Weekend.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-That's what I'm saying schedule them right now twice a day.
MR. JARRETT-We can easily ask for pump outs at least twice a day and monitoring it continuously.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Over the weekend I think that is probably appropriate.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-If he does it...
COUNCILMAN STEC-Friday through Monday.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Friday night if he comes Saturday at three or four and doesn't come again it
could easily. . .
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Saturday at 9:00 a.m., Saturday at 4:00 p.m., Sunday at 9:00 a.m., Sunday at
4:00 p.m., Monday at 9:00 a.m., Sunday at 4:00 p.m., that kind of schedule. I underscore that we're put in a
tough position here by virtue of lack of attention to this problem all throughout the wintertime and spring
when they could....
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-Can I offer a solution Tom and I just talked
about it, it may work I think it will work in fact. We require that they pump all the tanks once in the
morning and once in the evening. Leave the system hooked up as it is right now should the new system not
get installed at all that way if there is an overflow for some unknown reason it will go into the existing
system. It won't over tax the system because you'll have it pumped twice a day. The flows to the system
would be less even though the flow can still go the system.
MR. JARRETT-That's on the weekend?
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-That's on Memorial Day.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Hopefully this will be a mute point you will have the whole system installed by
then.
MR. JARRETT -I'll provide updates this Friday and next Friday as to our status.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-We won't have a board meeting that Monday obviously because that's a holiday
are we off until the following Monday? We have to revise our extension don't we?
COUNCILMAN STEC- The fifth. June 5th will be our next regular board meeting.
ATTORNEY HAFNER-Do you want to extend the date until June 5th?
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES, MR. HATIN-Why don't we leave it at this. If! feel the need
to come back to the board I can always put it on the agenda hopefully by then as we're all hoping it will be
a mute point by Memorial Day Weekend or if not sooner. For some reason if this drags on I can put it on
the agenda for June 5th, and tell the board here's where we are and this is where we're at.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-In the meantime will get two status reports....
SUPERVISOR BROWER-I think it would be a good idea to update us anyway.
ATTORNEY HAFNER-The resolution that you are modifying says he has to close down today if he
doesn't meet the requirements so you need to extend that June 5th is the next meeting.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-We're also going to have to put those conditions in too, right add the new
conditions that we're talking about tonight.
COUNCILMAN STEC- The kitchen, washing machine, live in unit, and pumping schedule.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-The fact that linens aren't to be washed in the house unit.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I don't think he is going to go so far as to do that. I agree that's why I said is it
a home unit he couldn't do it he would have to stay up all night.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Add it in that's fine.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-If you want it in there that's fine.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-I'd like to be cautious about it.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-It can't hurt to put it in there.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Can't do linens for the hotel in the residential washing machine. He is allowed a
residential washing machine. . . .
ATTORNEY HAFNER-I have that...
COUNCILMAN STEC-He can't do the hotel's laundry in his washing machine.
ATTORNEY HAFNER-The pumping schedule was 9:00 a.m.?
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Morning and evening.
COUNCILMAN STEC- Twice a day starting Friday afternoon and ending Monday afternoon.
ATTORNEY HAFNER-Of Memorial Day weekend.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I'd like receipts of that visitation that those were made on the invoice of the
pumpmg company.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Good idea.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I don't mean to be strict about it.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Prudent, vigilant.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Bob do you have that a draft forum that you can kind of read back to us?
ATTORNEY HAFNER-I'd like to do that. You have a resolution that is only a start of what we've been
asked tonight. What it is your modifying the prior what we're going to do is talk about the changes. The
first change is the kitchen, which is already on the resolution that you have. The second is a similar change
that says with respect to number one which is the laundry that you're going to keep it just the same and add
the following clause at the end of number one. Except for a small non-commercial washing machine
located in the owner occupied dwelling unit, which will not do any laundry associated with the motel. You
want to add the following additional conditions. That the applicant will maintain a pumping schedule of
morning and evening of the weekend starting with Friday after noon and ending Monday after noon of
Memorial Day weekend and shall provide receipts to the Town in the person of Dave Hatin that, that has
been done and that we are modifying the last Resolved which said that the facilities on the premises shall
close on May 15th if they do not meet the conditions to, that the facilities on the premises shall close on
June 5th 2000, if by that time they do not meet the conditions.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-How soon will you have these holding tanks put in?
MR. JARRETT-The holding tanks are the septic tanks they are not separate holding tanks.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-They are not separate holding tanks.
MR. JARRETT-Use the septic tanks as holding tanks.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Can you also add in there about two interim status reports from the applicant
engineer on Friday the 19th and 26th.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-And these are going to be pumped daily otherwise, other than the Memorial Day
weekend?
UNKNOWN-That I am not sure about.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-We are going to require them to be pumped daily?
MR. JARRETT-We had not talked about that. What I was representing is that I believe that the existing
systems can handle flow during the weeks now, sense it is an off season.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-That is what I understand.
MR. JARRETT -It is just Memorial Day Weekend that we are concerned about, at least that I am concerned
about.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-This coming weekend,
MR. JARRETT -I do not know that there is any ... there is some usage on a weekend but, there is no
particular peak usage that I know of. Shaukat, do you have any peak usage this weekend?
MR. SHAUKAT BHATI-No
SUPERVISOR BROWER-And you think that is adequate?
MR. JARRETT-I do. Especially sense it is only weekend use.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-You have the pump outs the first pump outs coming Friday of Memorial Day
weekend, that is less than two weeks.
MR. JARRETT -Eight or ten units he is saying, now there are six units in the front building that is on a
separate system anyway. So, we are talking two to four units in the motel that is the subject of this
application, so I do not see that being a big usage for this weekend.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-So, you have the status reports in there as well.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Of course all the water we have had, you know we have had a lot of rain and
that does not help the condition any either.
DIRECTOR HA TIN -Could I just clarify something for the Board, for my own sake, the weekend following
Memorial Day weekend no pumping is required? Because your status update will not be until June 5th
which is the weekend after.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-If he is not done by then David, there will not be any pumping because it will
probably be closed.
DIRECTOR HATIN-I am saying June 5th is a Monday I believe, correct? And there is another weekend
between Memorial Day and June 5th.
MR. JARRETT-When is Americade?
DIRECTOR HA TIN-That is the weekend of June 5th the week of June 5th.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-I would like to see them pumped at least once over a weekend just to be sure.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-That is going to be three weeks before he comes back to us.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Technically he would be closed tomorrow, technically because you know he
had not met the requirements so I do not think it is unreasonable
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Well do you want to say then Bob, add extra you want to say then add an extra
date on Saturday evening of each of those two weekends, this weekend coming and then the weekend of it
would be June 3rd. that day.
SUPERVISOR MARTIN-Saturday afternoon yes, I think that is reasonable.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I agree.
COUNCILMAN STEC-One pumping, June 3rd.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-And another one this coming Saturday.
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-May 20th. So, one additional pumping schedule
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Saturday, May 20th.
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-Of Saturday, May 20th and Saturday, June 3rd. And there is also the
requirement on the 19th of May and the 26th of May of Tom providing status reports to the Town
Supervisor.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Right.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Did you finish with the
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-I have made the changes that you asked for and read them in and the Town
Clerk said she will understand my language and make sure that they get on.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Ok, so we have a pumping schedule of once on a Saturday this coming
Saturday and Saturday, June 3rd. and then starting Friday evening twice a day right on through Monday
evening of Memorial Day weekend. And we are allowing the kitchen facility and the owner occupied
dwelling unit and we got two status reports coming from Mr. Jarrett and that is basically...
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Any further comment from the public at this time? Mr. Salvador?
MR. JOHN SALVADOR-Just one point that Mr. Martin touched on, license septic haulers in this county
must maintain a record of what they are picking up, where they are picking it up, how much them are
picking up when they deliver it to the sewage treatment plant that is a DOT and a DEC requirement plus
the invoice for what is being done. There should be a complete record of what you. . .
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Asked for motion.
RESOLUTION AMENDING LOCAL BOARD OF HEALTH RESOLUTION NO.: 12.2000
REGARDING APPROVAL OF SEWAGE DISPOSAL VARIANCE APPLICATION OF SHAUKA T
BHATTI D/B/A ROADWAY INN, OWNED BY SNAP MOTEL CORPORATION
RESOLUTION NO.: 16,2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. James Martin
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, by Local Board of Health Resolution No.: 12.2000 the Town of Queensbury Local
Board of Health approved the Sewage Disposal Variance application of Shaukat Bhatti d/b/a Roadway Inn,
Owned by Snap Motel Corporation subject to certain conditions, one of these conditions set forth in the
Resolution reads as follows:
4. "No kitchen facilities shall be located on the premises,"
and
WHEREAS, the Local Board of Health wishes to amend this condition to read as follows:
4. "No kitchen facilities shall be located on the premises except for the kitchen facilities located in the
owner-occupied dwelling unit," and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the following conditions be included;
I.Laundry must be done off-site and no laundry facilities shall be located or have disposal on premises,
except for a small non-commercial washing machine located in the owner occupied dwelling unit which
will not do any laundry associated with the motel.
2. That the applicant will maintain a pumping schedule of morning and evening of the weekend starting
with Friday afternoon and ending Monday afternoon of Memorial Day weekend and shall provide receipts
to the person of Dave Hatin that that has been done. One additional pumping schedule of Saturday, May
20th and Saturday, June 3rd, 2000.
3.That the facilities on the premises shall close on June 5th, 2000 if by that time they do not meet the
conditions.
4.To receive two interim status reports from the applicant engineer on Friday, May 19th, 2000 and Friday,
May 26th, 2000 to the Supervisor.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Local Board of Health hereby amends Resolution No.:
12.2000 to read as set forth above, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Local Board of Health hereby affirms and ratifies Resolution No.: 12.2000
in all other respects.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
DISCUSSION HELD BEFORE VOTE: COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Don't come here June 5th telling me
you want to stay open, because I am not going to be very, speaking for me personally, I am not going to be
very hospitable.
Vote taken.
RESOLUTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING ON SEWAGE DISPOSAL VARIANCE APPLICATION
OF MICHAEL ASPLAND
RESOLUTION NO.: 17,2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board serves as the Town's Local Board of Health and is
authorized by Town Code Chapter 136 to issues variances from the Town's On-Site Sewage Disposal
Ordinance, and
WHEREAS, Michael Aspland has applied to the Local Board of Health for two (2) variances from
Chapter 136 to reinstall a septic system eighty feet (80') from his well and eighty feet (80') from a
neighbor's well instead of the required one-hundred feet (100') setback(s) on property located at 15 Reardon
Road Extension, Queensbury,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Local Board of Health for the Town of Queensbury will hold a public
hearing on June 5th, 2000 at 7:00 p.m. at the Queensbury Activities Center, 742 Bay Road, Queensbury, to
consider Michael Aspland's sewage disposal variance application concerning property located at 15
Reardon Road Extension, Queensbury (Tax Map No.: 44-2-17) and at that time all interested persons will
be heard, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Local Board of Health authorizes and directs the Queensbury Town Clerk to
publish the Notice of Public Hearing presented at this meeting and send a copy of the Notice to neighbors
located within 500 feet ofMr. Aspland's property as required by law.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH
RESOLUTION NO. 18.2000 B.O.H.
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. James Martin WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Queensbury Board of
Health and moves back into Regular Session.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
2.0 PUBLIC HEARINGS
2.L NORTHWAY PLAZA-CHANGE CLASSIFICATION OF PROPERTY OWNED BY
NORTHWAY PLAZA ASSOCIATES, LLC FROM SFR-IA TO PC-IA
NOTICE SHOWN
7:48 p.m.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Who is here on behalf of Northway Plaza Associates?
MR. JIM HAGAN-Mr. Supervisor my name is Jim Hagan I am the Architect representing Northway Plaza,
I believe my name and address are on the application. With me tonight is Mr. William Dutch one of the
principals of Northway Plaza Associates and their attorney Mr. Seifter. I have put up on the Board the
map that has been submitted there is one minor change on this I would just like to note that the request of
the Planning Board would indicate a fifty foot buffer along the north property line. I have additional copies
of that map here if any members of the board would like to see it. I know it is tough to see it at scale. I
also have some ... photos one set that I would like to circulate among the board members. Over the past
several years Northway Plaza Associates has made a continuing effort to upgrade their property so that they
could retain existing tenants and also attract new tenants to replace some of the people who have turned
over in the center. Although the property is well over thirty years old, they are committed to this property
for the long term and they want to not only keep something that is economically viable property but also
something that is a good looking property. Something that is going to be a benefit to them and to the
community. Last year in keeping with that approach they had purchased a strip of land from the Town of
Queensbury that was part of the Cemetery Property, which was rezoned to the PCIA. The purpose of that
was to provide the capability for additional parking on the property and to provide the required buffer
between the shopping center and the cemetery property. They have now contracted with the contiguous
property owner to the north of them property owned by the Stone Family and what they are proposing to do
is to acquire three point seven four acres of the Stone property. The total Stone property is almost nine
acres and has frontage on Montray Road. What we are proposing to acquire would be the southern third of
that property we would not have access out to Montray Road nor do we have any intention of going out to
Montray Road.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Is that an existing lot or are you creating a new lot?
MR. HAGAN-What we are doing is we are proposing to basically subdivide or change the boundary of the
line, I will show you on the diagram. This is the northern section of Northway Plaza here is Montray Road
this is the Stone property and what we propose to do is acquire this section of the Stone property that would
be contiguous to this. The rest of this would remain pretty much as is and it would remain residential.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Now, that section your are acquiring are you proposing to convey that in as
part of the plaza parcel or are you looking to create that as a stand-alone lot?
Mr. WILLIAM DUTCH-We are intending just to adjust the boundary line and to add it into the shopping
center. It is not a subdivision.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Because that would be creating a non-conforming lot if you did.
MR. DUTCH-I understand that.
MR. HAGAN-The parcel in question is somewhat unique, it has a number of physical attributes and zoning
attributes which make this request for a zone change a logical decision. The property directly to the West of
this parcel the property that fronts on Route 9 and on Montray Road is owned by Potenza's and that is
currently zoned PC-IA. The property to the South, Northway Plaza is also zoned PC-IA. Last year when
Northway Plaza acquired the strip of land on the East boundary from the Town that was also zoned PC-IA
and a portion of that property is contiguous on the eastern side of this property. So, effectively on three
boundaries you have got the same zoning so this becomes in effect a logical extension of the existing zone.
The area, the rest of the land to the East is still owned by the Town and that would remain obviously single
family residential as I stated previously the remainder roughly six acres of the Stone property would remain
single family residential. What also makes this property unique is that there is some very unusual
topography. I have here more detailed maps, the map that I have submitted to you has some of the
topography but if I could just walk you thorough what is going on.
DEPUTY TOWN CLERK O'BRIEN-Sir, can you please take the microphone with you?
MR. HAGAN-Certainly.
DEPUTY TOWN CLERK O'BRIEN-Thank you.
MR. HAGAN-Generally the land behind the shopping center is fairly level it does slope a little bit to the
East this boundary of the Stone property this property is about fifteen foot higher as you continue across the
property the grade drops off so you have a low point here that is probably about twenty foot almost thirty
foot below the parking lot in the Shopping Center. There is a section in here that over the years was filled
by the Northway Plaza and I will discuss that in a minute, that is level with Northway Plaza. Beyond this
low section the hill rises up quite substantially so that you are about twenty to thirty feet above this land
and then as you go to the East it drops off even lower into the wetland area. What I am saying by pointing
this out is that besides the zoning issues there are some natural barriers with topography that exist with this
property that makes a different than other zone changes that you may have dealt with. Looking at the land
as it is configured right now it is highly unlikely that, that particular portion of land could be utilized
economically for single family residential development. Over the years and I am talking back many years
now, Northway Plaza did fill part of this property and they have been encroaching on the Stone's property.
Part of that area that I pointed out as a plateau is not really paved but there is almost a stone surface down
and they have used it for parking and for storage of equipment associated with the Plaza. Part of the reason
for this acquisition is to clean up and legalize that encroachment. We understand that by ordinance we are
required to maintain a fifty-foot buffer adjacent to the residential property that would remain. That is why
it was noted at the suggestion of the Planning Board that, that would be part of this approval that we would
have that buffer. What I wanted to say is that if anything was to happen with this property, my guess is that
buffer would be substantially larger than that, given the topography we are dealing with. As I stated
previous in the Planning Board Meeting at this point we are asking for a zone change. What I will say is
that we do intend to use a portion of the property in all likely hood the plateau area that exists for parking,
however before that area can be used for anything or any work can be done on it we understand that we
must come back to the Town to the Planning Board and request a site approval at which time all the issues
dealing with drainage, grading, vegetation, what have you will have to be addressed, and we are prepared to
do that when we know exactly what we want to do. One of the major tenants of the center as you probably
well know is the Travelers Insurance Company and they are a significant employer within this community.
They have three different spaces they are under lease for right now but they also have options to take
additional space in the future. What Northway Plaza is basically trying to do is to be able to accommodate
their parking needs which are greater than the retail requirements. Mr. Stec I believe that you were here
last year when we appeared at the Zoning Board a
COUNCILMAN STEC- Yes, I was, I remember it vividly.
MR. HAGAN-So, you understand our problem.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Yes. I do.
MR. HAGAN-Again this is part of that effort to continue to upgrade the property. One of the things that
they also committed to do is to repave the front parking lot and make other modifications to the center to
satisfy the Travelers lease. Over the past year Northway has put together a strategy of the acquisitions,
request for the zoning variance and then again we are going to go in for a site plan approval so that we can
do this in a logical manner that is going to benefit the property in the Town. As part, we can say on the
record we have been before the County Board, County Planning Board and the Town Planning Board both
of whom have given us positive recommendations. We are asking the Town Board tonight to consider this
to be a logical extension of the existing PC-IA zoning that will benefit both the community and the
applicant. Mr. ... is there anything that you would like to add?
COUNCILMAN STEC-For the purpose of the Board's background on what the Zoning Board had last year,
last fall, they applied for a variance from the parking space width requirement they asked for it to be
reduced from nine feet to eight feet six inches. They asked for a six-inch narrowing in order to try and
satisfy a lease requirement that they had with Travelers. It went to the County Planning Board, the County
Planning Board recommended disapproval so it came to the Town Zoning Board of Appeals where it
needed a super majority to pass, it had a majority but not a super majority. They were back a few times
over that.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-What ultimately happened?
COUNCILMAN STEC-It was denied, it was tabled or no action taken and we were unable to get a super
majority to over ride the County.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I am pretty familiar with the place I used to work in a little office that was
tenant with the State Department of Labor is now and did you guys buy it from Bill Swanson?
UNKNOWN-No, he was not the owner it was a bank...
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-He was the guy that sold it to the bank and we used to share office space with
him and he was the guy that got Travelers located there. I know the utilitarian use of that pit is that is where
all the snow goes from the parking lot in the wintertime, right?
MR. HAGAN-That is correct.
COUNCILMAN STEC-And no more confederate flags are stored there.
UNKNOWN-No more
COUNCILMAN STEC- That was in the paper.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-But the good news now, I think, at some point the whole center went on the
sewer system right.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Yea, they are.
MR. HAGAN-Yes it is.
UNKNOWN-About nine years ago.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Your plaza is probably one of the more attractive plaza's in the region and the
facade on the front I think it is fantastic. The green trim and all.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Do you know how that green color came, he had a study done on the
background green colors and that was the way they arrived at the pigment in that or the tone of that paint, it
is a blend of that background colors.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Is there any more history you would like to share with us?
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-They had to get a height variance for that steeple; there is another one.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Is that where the Grand Union used to be?
UNKNOWN-Yes.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Any other questions from the Town Board Members at this time? No? Any
comment from you Chris?
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-The staff recommends approval right?
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR ROUND- We have given you a packet transmittal dated April 21st. included the
Planning Boards record of positive recommendation our Staff notes, short EAF and copy of the Warren
County Planning Board notes. Our Staff notes and Rezonings are not familiar activity in front of the Town
Board what we have on the Planning Board Staff notes are the questions and responses that are included on
the application for petition to rezone. It is helpful to review those as a part of the public hearing if you
review them at that time.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Thank you gentlemen. At this time I would like to ask if there are any public
comment on this application? Betty?
MRS. BETTY MONAHAN-Betty Monahan, Sunnyside Road, Queensbury. Since to put it mildly our
definition of buffer stinks. I would suggest that you put some, not recommendations, conditions in there
relative to the buffer and that is that it has to meet the aesthetics, the noise and the light pollution. I think
that buffer, you need to call for it to be planted with something that will be effective both in winter and in
summer that will help all those three points. It needs to be under planted. I am very offended when I go
into the Cemetery now and I look over and think a funeral party is in there and they are looking over on a
commercial area because a buffer is not good their any more. It is ok in the this time of the year when the
leaves start to come out but the rest of the year, those people in their moment of sorrow are looking over at
a very unappetizing type of thing. So, that would be my suggestion since our definition of buffer is so
lousy that you put those conditions into it.
MR. JOHN STROUGH-John Strough, Queensbury I understand that this is not going to be developed
which is good, but just for your information there is an artesian stream there and there is a wetland and that
what feeds the cemetery pond and that in turns feed Halfway Brook but there is an artesian stream on this
piece of property.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-It does mention in our notes that there is a wetland there it does not say
anything about the artesian stream.
MR. STROUGH-Yea, it comes right out of the hillside.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Imagine the volume of snow that, is placed into that for lack of a better term
gorge it has a lot to do with feeding that wetland when that snow melts because there is a sizable amount of
snow everything offfrom that front parking lot goes in that back.
MR. STROUGH-This is myoid stomping ground this is where I used to go tobogganing, I know this area
like the back of my hand. This is traditionally been there has been an artesian stream there for as long as I
know and a wetland for as long as I know that feeds the cemetery pond that in turns feed Halfway Brook,
so, just as you understand.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Jim are you familiar with the stream that he is talking about?
MR. HAGAN-I have not seen the artesian stream but, I am familiar, but there is a gully where water could
run down through and. something is feeding the wetland area.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-We want to make sure that nothing effects that negatively so, I want you to keep
that in mind, it will probably be..
MR. HAGAN-Ok, I think we were put on notice and I guess that would be an issue that we would discuss
with the Planning Board.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Thank you John. Anyone else care to comment on this at this time? Yes.
MS. NANCY DA VIS-I am Nancy Davis, I live in Twicwood area This is the first that I have heard about
this but it seems that since they have not proposed or given the Board exactly the information about what
they plan to do with this property I would like to see the Board table the change in zoning on that property
until they tell you what they want to do with it and see if you can't, see if it is going to be an appropriate use
of that land. Because if you just make a change in the zoning now without knowing what they want to do it
makes it easier for them I think to do various things in the future. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Anyone else care to comment on the application at this time? Last call. Ok.
Town Board Members.
COUNCILMAN STEC-In response to that, can we condition it for parking only? Can we put a limit on if
we rezone it, can we say, because I think the intent here is a parking concern, but I think the point has been
raised it is a good one we may want to make sure that we go into that with eyes open.
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-That is normally something for the Planning Board to deal with later, what
this is, is a rezoning and we have to be consistent with our zoning ordinance, I mean, or rezoning it from
COUNCILMAN BREWER-If we rezone it, anything that we rezone, anything that is allowed in a PC zone
will be allowed on that property but you have to consider the constraints with the wetland the artesian
stream, the elevations, there is not really an awful lot more that they can do without, and no matter what
else they want to do they have to go back to the Planning Board.
COUNCILMAN STEC-But is it allowed or not allowed for us to put any conditions on a rezoning.
UNKNOWN-Yes.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Yes.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Yes we can condition. Jim what would be your estimate of the percent of slope
there as it curves along that bank in that gully there?
MR. HAGAN-You have probably got areas that are one on one slopes right now.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Because by code it would not be permissible to develop that in any way shape
or form, that is too steep of a slope. And then you are going to run into other things. I think that is the
beginnings of even a DEC regulated wetland back in there I would imagine isn't it Chris?
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR ROUND-I think, it is a DEC wetland it is connected to a tributary...
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-It is quite a sizable wetland area so you have got something that is
jurisdictional that DEC and the Army Corp. both they have to consider highest and best use I mean the
most intense use in a PC zone for rezoning but my point is saying all that is that it is so steep that it would
require variances to develop that or filling and that is just not.
COUNCILMAN STEC-But could we condition, we can condition it.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Yes. you could limit it down to parking if you want.
COUNCILMAN STEC-And say you can only, we rezone this and the condition is that the only
development possible is parking and then hand it off to the Planning Board and say, now within those
guidelines deal with the applicant. Right?
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-I think that there is some limitations on that and if that is something that the
board wants we should look into it I think that is a .. spot zoning doing that sort of a thing. We have a
zoning ordinance and these things are allowed, I know that in the past the Town you know have done it but
those have been particular circumstances. You are trying to limit it to a very particular one use and I
believe that if I go and research it that the cases are going to say that, that is going too far.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Mr. Dutch you had something to add?
ATTORNEY SEIFTER- I am Mr. Seifter the Attorney, I think that conditioning the zoning that narrowly
would not be correct. I think that you are protected by having us, first of all the topography of the property
is limiting and the fact that we are going to have to come back to the Planning Board in any event for
anything we are going to do I do not really think that at this time you need to think everything through. All
you need to think through is whether it makes sense given the boarders around the property to allow that
property to be changed, to allow the zone of that property to be changed. The rest of your automatic format
for further approvals is going to protect the interests of the town's people here.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-My point raising all that, I think that there is enough protections in our zoning
code for building on such a slope and other State and Federal laws about the wetland as a practical matter
you are never going to see any development in that section of the lot, beyond some parking around the
peripheral of that bank of the slope.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Ijust wanted to raise the question and the discussion I have heard sense the
question I see where the Attorneys and are going and I appreciate that. But, my experience from the
Zoning Board and observing this board in the past is that the public usually feels a little bit more
comfortable taking a bite out of every chance it gets at the apple and if it can limit something now and
avoid a problem now rather than saying the next board, the next board will cover it to you get down to the
last board and if somebody is asleep at the wheel that night so I think the public, the public's concern is if
we can limit it now then we do not have to worry about relying on someone else to limit it later or it being
caught later and that is why I asked the question.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-But, that is my point, those things represent real limits.
COUNCILMAN STEC-I am satisfied with the discussion, I am not feeling like we have to pursue that now
but I wanted to ask the question and I am satisfied.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I would like to, I think Betty's point about the planting is well taken, through
the buffer area there, at site plan I would like to see the Planning Board you know require a landscape plan
there that would effectively you know screen that in addition to the dimensional buffer.
MR. SEIFTER - I drove by there just a little while ago on the way over here and I am sure that a lot of the
people in the neighborhood know the property a lot better than I do but it is nine acres and we are only
buying the first three acres the remaining six acres are totally undeveloped and heavily wooded. To think
about like tearing out the existing forest to put in some kind of a berm does not make any sense to me.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-No, no I am not calling for a berm I amjust saying to have the Planning Board
review it and look at it that issue.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Make sure that there is that adequate vegetation.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-The only thing your map does not show is the exactly where their house is on
here, it is back quite a ways you are saying from that area?
COUNCILMAN STEC-We could modify the size of the buffer couldn't we? Couldn't we say well we will
approve this but instead of a fifty-foot buffer we sleep better with a hundred and fifty-foot or one hundred-
foot buffer? I think that would go a long way to addressing some of the concerns that might be on.
MR. SEIFTER-I think that would also be a Planning Board stipulation typically.
COUNCILMAN STEC-I agree with you those are questions appropriate for the Planning Board because I
hammered on that when I was on the Zoning Board saying those are Planning Board issues but these are the
questions that are being asked by the audience tonight but they are in their minds.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Any more information from you Gentlemen?
MR. HAGAN-No, not unless you have further questions?
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Any other questions for the developers? Thank you very much. I would like a
motion to close the public hearing, oh, Betty.
MRS. BETTY MONAHAN-I have one further comment and I do not have my Blue Book here with me,
but if this land is unsuitable for many of the uses that are allowed under a PC zone you have to look at the
most intense use allowed under PC zone if it is not suitable for that how are you going to give it a negative
seqra declaration or approve a Seqra declaration is what I should say. I do not see how you can do it if
those uses are not suitable to go on that land they do not want you to condition it so those uses cannot go
there how are you going to give that SEQRA approval?
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I do not think that anybody said that they were not suitable Betty, I think what
was said.
MRS. MONAHAN-That is all I am hearing that you do not have worry about this going there because, this
is what I am hearing, sitting in the audience, they are saying you do not have to worry about those uses
going there and the neighbors don't, now wait a moment, because the land is not suitable for that. If that is
true how are you going to approve the SEQRA declaration for it?
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I do not think anybody said that there wasn't any use suitable I said
MRS. MONAHAN-No, I said the most intense use you have got to prove that you can put the most intense
use allowed under a PC lA on that land that they are asking to be rezoned, that is SEQRA regulation.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Right, now if you let me explain to you what our thought was it is restricted as
to what uses because of the land constraints.
MRS. MONAHAN-That is what I am saying because the land is giving a constraint to it you cannot say
that
COUNCILMAN BREWER-If they make this piece of property part of another parcel and use a portion of
that where it is connected to the other parcel than that would be suitable.
MRS. MONAHAN-That has no bearing on it. You are rezoning a certain parcel ofland if that land is not
suitable for the most intense use under a PC 1 Acre I do not think you can approve the SEQRA declaration.
MR. HAGAN-If I could just add something to your concerns. We all know that this center was built back
in the 60's it predated many of the current regulations. In fact if somebody came in with a site plan for that
center today there is no way you would approve it or could approve it.. What we are doing by this
acquisition and this rezoning we are providing buffer area that does not exist now. We are taking and
basically legitimizing and encroachment that existed for many, many years prior to the present ownership
actually owning the property. I think what Northway Plaza is trying to do with this is do something
positive over what exists right now. It think that is the best way I can answer you concerns.
MRS. MONAHAN-And I appreciate that fact but I think you guys are still in a legal quandary here.
COUNCILMAN STEC-I do not know let's ask our legal counsel.
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-I think we have a resolution that we think, that if you find it you can pass it.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Just so you know historically John Webster and the Town Board at that time
sold, originally sold Cemetery property to Northway Plaza Associates for development that is how the
Northway Plaza came to be. I believe that they sold the land for one hundred and fifty thousand dollars if I
am not mistaken and most of that money was used to build the Town Hall that you have next door, the first
portion of that Town Hall. That was 1966 the Town Hall was built.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I do not have a problem...
SUPERVISOR BROWER-First we have got to close the public hearing.. . closed the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED 8: 18 P.M.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-From a SEQRA point of view we have to consider what would happen if the
property were developed to the most intense use listed in the zone you have to keep that in the back of your
mind. Ted and I are looking at the plaza commercial zones here there are a lot of different retail business
type uses meat and food stores, clothing apparel and so on. Shopping mall plaza is probably one of the
larger ones if you consider traffic and things like that. That's what exists there on the main property so to
speak. That's probably the most intense use in plaza commercial from what I see there. It is noted that
parking facility is an allowed accessory use, public parking garage is another somewhat intense use. What
would happen if that were utilized to that intense use what would be the environmental impact of that is
what we should be considering is that not correct Bob, would you say that's a true statement?
ATTORNEY HAFNER-It is a true statement.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-You also have to consider at least in my opinion you have to consider what are
the other controlling factors. We do have limitation of development on slopes in the zoning code.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-That was my point that I was trying to make to Betty.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-The most intense uses as I see it is shopping mall plaza, parking facility,
parking garage. We have recommendations of approval from our local boards, county boards, and staff.
SEQRA - PART II
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-Does action exceed any Type I threshold in 6NYCRR, Part
617.4?
TOWN BOARD-No.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-Will action receive coordinated review as provided for unlisted
actions in 6NYCRR, Part 617.6?
TOWN BOARD-No.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-C. Could action result in any adverse effects associated with the
following: (existing air quality, surface or groundwater quality or quantity, noise levels, existing traffic
patterns, solid waste production or disposal, potential for erosion, drainage or flooding problems?
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I would say no.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-No.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-No.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-I would say yes there is potential.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-Staff has noted that no impacts to aesthetics, agricultural, or
archaeological, historic resources. No physical disturbances are contemplated at this time. Community
neighborhood character may impacted due to lost of residential lands. However, the steep embankment and
other site constraints limit commercial impact.
ATTORNEY HAFNER-Responded no, four out of five.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Yes, no.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-C3. Vegetation or fauna, fish, shellfish or wildlife species,
significant habitats, or threatened or endangered species?
TOWN BOARD-NO.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-C4. A community's existing plans or goals as officially
adopted, or a change in use or intensity of use of land other than natural resources?
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I'll pause you right there. The existing masterplan and the draft-zoning plan
you have obviously have seen Chris anything?
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-Neither identify this property specifically or identify proposed
recommended change for this property.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-This continues to be like a property on the fringe so to speak.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-Not commented on in the plan.
ATTORNEY HAFNER-Do we have a response to that?
TOWN BOARD-No.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-C5. Growth, subsequent development, or related activities
likely to be induced by the proposed action?
COUNCILMAN STEC-No adverse.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-We have an indication on the part of the applicant they are looking to expand
their parking facility. As a result of our action they would probably be allowed to do that I'm just pointing
that out. I don't view that, as particularly adverse since it has to go to site plan review and approval. I
would expect that they as well as their consulting engineer would submit a drainage plan to the Planning
Board for consideration. I would expect to the extent that it's appropriate a landscaping plan and planting
plan be submitted. I know that is rather a hidden area back there, but still.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I would agree.
COUNCILMAN STEC-I agree with you.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-But, the answer is no.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-With that understood I would say no.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-C6. Long term, short term, cumulative, or other effect not
identified in CI-C5?
TOWN BOARD-No.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-C7. Other impacts including changes in use of either quantity or
type of energy?
TOWN BOARD-No.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-D. Will the proposed project have an impact on the
environmental characteristics that caused the establishment of a CEA?
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-There are none in this area right?
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-That's correct.
TOWN BOARD-No.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-E. Is there, or is there likely to be, controversy related to
potential adverse environmental impacts?
TOWN BOARD-No.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-We've had no correspondence even no letters?
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-I have the planning file with me and I don't recall
correspondence?
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-You didn't get any Karen.
DEPUTY CLERK, O'BRIEN-No.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-You have a negative declaration as part of your resolution in
front of you tonight.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Bob as we do this negative declaration notice the Determination of Non-
Significance under the second page of that reasons for supporting this determination. I would suggest that
we add language to the effect that after taking a hard look we have come to this determination based on
Staff input and the recommendation of the County Planning Board as well as local Town Planning Board.
The following resolution was introduced and passed:
RESOLUTION ADOPTING SEQRA NEGATIVE DECLARATION AND AMENDING ZONING
ORDINANCE TO CHANGE CLASSIFICATION OF PROPERTY OWNED BY NORTHWAY PLAZA
ASSOCIATES, LLC FROM SFR-IA (SINGLE F AMIL Y RESIDENTIAL - ONE ACRE) TO PC-IA
(PLAZA COMMERCIAL - ONE ACRE)
RESOLUTION NO. 213,2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. James Martin
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board is considering a request by Northway Plaza Associates,
LLC to amend the Town of Queensbury Zoning Ordinance and Map to rezone property bearing Tax Map
No.: 72-7-3 located at the rear of the Stone property located on Montray Avenue contiguous to the rear of
Northway Plaza, Queensbury from SFR-IA (Single Family Residential- One Acre) to PC-IA (Plaza
Commercial - One Acre), and
WHEREAS, on or about March 20th, 2000, the Town Board adopted a Resolution authorizing
submission of the rezoning application to the Town's Planning Board for report and recommendation, and
WHEREAS, on or about April 19th, 2000, the Queensbury Planning Board considered the
proposed rezoning and made a positive recommendation to the Town Board to approve the rezoning
application, and
WHEREAS, on or about April 12th, 2000, the Warren County Planning Board recommended
approval of the proposed rezoning, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board duly conducted a public hearing concerning the proposed rezoning
on May 15th, 2000, and
WHEREAS, as SEQRA Lead Agency, the Town Board has reviewed a Short Environmental
Assessment Form to analyze potential environmental impacts of the proposed rezoning, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board has considered the conditions and circumstances of the area affected
by the rezoning,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby determines that the proposed rezoning will
not have any significant environmental impact and a SEQRA Negative Declaration is made, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby amends the Town of Queensbury Zoning Ordinance
and Map to rezone property owned by Northway Plaza Associates, LLC bearing Tax Map No.: 72-7-3 and
located at the rear of the Stone property located on Montray Avenue contiguous to the rear of Northway
Plaza, Queensbury from the current zoning of SFR-IA (Single Family Residential- One Acre) to PC-IA
(Plaza Commercial - One Acre ),and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Queensbury Town Clerk to
arrange with a surveyor to update the official Town Zoning Map to reflect this change of zone, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town Clerk to send a copy of
this Resolution to the Warren County Planning Board, Town of Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals,
Town of Queensbury Planning Board and any agency involved for SEQRA purposes, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, in accordance with the requirements of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Ordinance
Article XIII and Town Law ~265, the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town Clerk to publish
a certified copy of the zoning changes in the Glens Falls Post-Star within five (5) days and obtain an
Affidavit of Publication, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that this amendment shall take effect upon filing in the Town Clerk's Office.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
OPEN FORUM GENERAL AND RESOLUTIONS
BARBARA BENNETT, DIXON ROAD, QUEENSBURY-Questioned what is the emergency structural
repair to the pool?
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Noted there is deterioration of the pool behind the concrete blocks, which has
eroded the surface.
MRS. BENNETT-Questioned when it was put it?
DIRECTOR OF PARKS & RECREATION, MR. HANSEN-Fifteen years ago. The pool was put in 1986.
This past fall found some deterioration between the gutter and concrete wall with the heaving and thawing
each year over the last fourteen years it has been separating a little bit. In looking at it this fall found major
damage in more areas then we thought existed couldn't find someone to do it had to put it off until the
spring. Noted most of the work has been done in-house chipped it all out had it resealed ready to go
waiting for the last two parts then a repainting. Will not make it for Memorial Day weekend, but will make
it before the main pool starts the last week of June when school is out.
MRS. BENNETT-Questioned what is wrong with the tennis courts.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Have cracks in them they need to be resealed.
DIRECTOR OF PARKS & RECREATION, MR. HANSEN-Noted the Town and School have had a ten-
year contract with the lights. We helped put in the lights we do it kind of jointly we take care of
maintenance jointly. The school this year had a three thousand-dollar bill to resurface the tennis courts just
reseal it and take care of the cracks. The Recreation Commission was made aware of the situation and
opted if the board concurs to give a thousand dollars towards that repair work. Again, we use the courts in
the summertime again in the fall because of our usage we felt somewhat committed to helping out.
JOANNE BRAMLEY, TWICWOOD LANE-There are approximately fifteen families here tonight from
our neighborhood and several others weren't able to attend, but are concerned. For the last two weekends
we have listened to go-karts much to our dismay. Skateland has had two prom parties for the last two
Saturday nights until five and five thirty in the morning where the go-karts have been fully operational
lights on kids screaming and hollering and yelling. Personally where I live I don't usually hear Skateland;
Pirates Cove for some reason is much louder than I ever remember it last year. The P A system I can just
about pick out word for word what is being said on the P A system. Whereas, the prom parties are certainly
the exception and not the norm I don't see the reason for the go-karts to be operational for kids to have a
prom party till five thirty in the morning running go-karts. It would seem reasonable to me that they could
be inside doing other activities and not have to be riding go-karts till five thirty in the morning. I don't
know if that's something that can be addressed in the future in terms of, I know they apparently have no
restrictions on their hours of operation whereas Pirates Cove does I believe they are allowed to operate to
midnight is that correct?
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I will only speak to my memory. I was on the Planning Board when Pirates
Cove got approved and I recall there was a time frame set for those go-karts. I honestly don't remember
whether there was for Skateland I don't even know if I was at that meeting, but we can certainly ask Chris
or Craig McEwan.
MRS. BRAMLEY -Chris doesn't believe that there are any... ...
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-The go-karts Pirates Cove I think Jim may be familiar that was a
source prior to my coming to the Town. It is my understanding it was litigated that the hours of operation
were discussed during the public hearing, but there was not a provision of the resolution approving the
activity therefore they couldn't restrict the hours of operation. It is my understanding that there are no
hours of operation restricted for Pirates Cove.
UNKNOWN-It is not Pirates Cove it is.......
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-Ermiger go-karts, Adventure Racing. The Skateland go-karts
there was no discussion of hours of operation I don't believe. I know there is nothing in the resolution
restricting hours of operation I don't know if the hours of operation were actually discussed during the
public hearing process. That's not to say that those are useful things to discuss I'mjust saying those are the
facts.
MRS. BRAMLEY-We are here again for another season talking about the cumulative effects of noise.
When I left my home at sixty thirty today the Bobsled was running it's been running for about two hours
today starting a little after four o'clock and there is no visible detectable change in the noise whatsoever. I
don't know if any mitigating factors have been employed I know that they've spoke of doing so. I would
have to think if they were going to do it, it would have been done by now. It just seems to me that in this
Town residents do not hold equal footing with commercial development. I sit at the Planning Board
meetings and I listen to developer's talk about how the public is going to love their project. The public that
is the most affected be it Twicwood, Courthouse Estates, Glen Lake, people that live in the area of the
Cracker Barrel development, people that are now in the area of the Prospect School proposed expansion,
that public comes and give their concerns to the appropriate boards. I don't know who this general public is
that the developer talks about that's going to love the project so much because we the most directly affected
public come and it doesn't ever seem to make much difference. I know that the Chazen Group is
completing their study and that will be opened to public comment and public hearing. What I can evaluate
from the timing of that is that none of that is going to make any difference for this summer season. I really
can't understand that just because we have proximity to a commercial area that we are so affected,
increasingly affected it's not like this has been a twenty or thirty year problem. The quality of life there has
deteriorated in the fourteen years that I have been in that development. It seems to me that there is some
responsibility owed to the citizens just because we do not provide a tax base for a commercial development
the way a business does we are a viable entity in this community. I have a specific question I would like to
ask and that is when a business does not comply or an applicant to a site plan requirement what is the
procedure to be taken when there is non-compliance or violation however you phrase it?
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-First thing is done is an Order to Remedy Violation is issued. They have a
period of time to comply within that order the section is sighted that they are in violation of. If they do not
comply then a Court Summons is issued and you go to court depending on how the proceedings go there,
there are penalties given. That's really the stick so to speak that the Town has.
MRS. BRAMLEY-Is this something that is brought before the Town Board or the Planning Board if
someone wants to....is it the public's responsibility to point out a non-compliance to whom?
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-It can be. It can be the enforcement officer if he or herself finds it. It can be a
result of a complaint from an individual constituent; it can be a group. It really varies depending on the
nature of the violation or the complaint.
MR. DOUGLAS AUER-How often does it happen?
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-We get ten, fifteen, complaints a day about it, potential
violations.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-My experience is we probably have the most active municipal complaint
system in the entire region.
MRS. BRAMLEY-We have been, there are many other members of my neighborhood that would like to
speak so I'll try to be as brief as I can. We have spoken with the owners of Skateland since last Spring
asking them to do something to mitigate the noise and to comply with the five hundred and eighty plantings
that they were suppose to do as part of their site plan approval. This is a letter dated June 15th, 1999 where
the plan was revised from seventy-two plantings to five hundred and eighty none of which were suppose to
be annuals or perennials. There is also some very detail conversation in the minutes of that meeting of the
Planning Board meeting discussing more substantial trees being planted along Route 9. I have if you care
to look at these, I have maps of what the agreed upon plantings that were suppose to be. Last spring of
ninety-nine there were no plantings done nothing was done over the summer, nothing was done in the fall,
nothing has been done this spring so we've missed three planting seasons since this was agreed upon. Yet
no one in code enforcement or no one representing this town was aware of that? I don't understand how
they were able to operate can you start your business before your in full compliance of a site plan?
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Yeah, you can get a temporary.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-In their case they were in business and they modified their construction of their
racmg cars.
MRS. BRAMLEY-But, they were certainly able to address their racing cars, but they weren't able to
address their plantings? They spoke to people in our neighborhood for months and months and months and
said we want to make sure... ..you know they were also speaking of buffering the tunnel that the cars go
through because that was thought of as being one of the problems. There is reference made in these notes
to a pressure treated noise barrier for both Adventure Racing and Skateland unfortunately for Adventure
Racing it was never made part of the resolution which is getting real old in our neighborhood. I would like
to ask the board to take whatever measures if this is the proper channel to do so to make sure that this is in
compliance. I personally would like to see their business closed until they are in compliance with this
order.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Was there any date of their resolution Chris?
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-I'm operating from recollection. I believe the June 15th, 1999
modification was brought forth as a result of an enforcement action that the landscaping was not installed.
I know that as a result of Mrs. Bramley's initiatives that we've been out to the site again to check on
landscaping I don't know what the status of that was. Ted, I believe has talked to our enforcement officer I
haven't talked to him specifically about this.....
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Adventure Racing was given a copy of the plantings and the map today and
we're told to bring it up to date where it is suppose to be.
MRS. BRAMLEY-By when?
COUNCILMAN TURNER-They didn't give them a date because Mr. Ermiger wasn't there and he only
handed to Mrs. Boyle.
MRS. BRAMLEY-This is Adventure?
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Yes.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Might I suggest that an Order of Remedy Violation be issued and compliance
date set. If they are not in compliance with their site plan approval then they will be ordered to close.
MRS. BRAMLEY-We're speaking both Adventure and Skateland?
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I would agree.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-If they are in violation of their site plan.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-Both the issues that we're talking about are landscaping issues
and not to confuse, I know you mentioned noise buffering, sound barrier wall, so I just don't want
somebody else to get a misperception.
MRS. BRAMLEY-That's right.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-It's a matter of developing a punch list. I remember Stewart's had twenty-three
violations of their site plan on their Aviation Road store it was prior to my involvement as a Zoning
Administrator. I just said, look it you are not getting another thing out of the Town until you correct those
violations and they can become very amiable under those conditions. I would suggest that we just issue the
order be given a date it is perfect planting time right now we're in peak season for planting.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-How long do we give them?
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I'd give them two weeks.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Give them two weeks to get it done if they don't get it done shut them down.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Nursery stocks are full. I noticed that myself! was not involved in anything in
the Town during the time that the Skateland thing went through, but I was really surprised by that there was
mature oak trees that were just mowed down then all we got back was grass essentially.
COUNCILMAN STEC-We've talked with Chris about this before. What is the Towns recourse when you
say, don't cut trees? They cut the trees they are not going to put them back hundred year old oaks what's
the recourse a five hundred dollar fine that's laughable.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-The tree cutting that we're talking about here was part of a site
plan approval so we're mixing enforcement action; again you're mixing two issues.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-But, I'm saying that they probably came back with a landscaping plan as
compensation for that. I would hope to see that's it is fully installed.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-That's what I think we have to do is make an example just one time to show
that this Town is not going to stand for this. If these people keep coming back and coming back they laugh
in your face. You know you tell them you are going to shut them down or do whatever and then we never
end up doing it.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Actually the real part of it is they knew they had to do it initially they haven't
done it they've left it on the shelf they haven't moved in any direction.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-But, at the same hand so haven't we Ted.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-There it is they are suffering all the time with the noise.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-In the same hand so haven't we.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-It would be nice to see something you are telling me that the remedial efforts
here will not affect the noise at all?
MRS. BRAMLEY-That's not the only issue. The issue is the noise has to be addressed.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-It's not going to address the noise.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-I know they put mufflers on at Skateland are they still on?
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-I did talk to Ted and Craig a week ago Saturday we received
some complaints about the noise made contacted both operations. The Skateland operation said as a result
of when it was approved last year go-karts came in operation the noise was identified as an impact. They
voluntarily said we will put best available technology mufflers on our go-karts. They did that for most of
them or some of them and now this year that all of them are not they either have new go-karts on site or
they have go-karts that have been modified again and that was brought to their attention. That's a voluntary
thing on their part that's not something that we have in our planning determination or our planning boards
approval that says you must install this technology. We have talked to them we did talk to them about the
noise buffering last year. As a dialogue Ted and myself approached them on behalf of the citizens and said,
hey this is a problem what can you do to help us cooperate towards mitigating this. They said we'll look at
baffling the tunnel we haven't maintained regular contact with them they haven't done anything we brought
that issue to them again this week. Hopefully they recognize they have to be good neighbors and that we've
asked them to explore other issues that are going to enhance the noise buffering on your site.
COUNCILMAN STEC-After the fact what are these suggestions that can you require to be done?
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Can't require any of them unless they are written.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-There in lies the frustration.
COUNCILMAN STEC-What frustrates me is that these things come up all the time these things that you
say, hey we'd like you to do this, could you please do that after the fact that we have no teeth. What burns
me is when they come before a board and they ask for something and something is given to them with a
condition and they blow that off that really gets my goat.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Chris on the Planning Board for example if our Planning Board for approval
would say a business let's say go-karts that you cannot operate after midnight for example that would be a
condition of operation that would be enforceable right?
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-You could make a condition that based on the noise impacts
associated with a particular land use whether it's go-karts or manufacturing that that negatively impacts the
neighborhood. You can deny an application if you draft it carefully. You could also restrict hours of
operation that said this negatively impacts it and we think nine o'clock is a reasonable balance or twelve
o'clock is a reasonable balancing test that allows you to operate in a commercial zone which allows this
particular land use and also protects the residents or landowners. This hasn't been done in either case that's
something that because of this problem we're cognitive of the issue. Our new zoning ordinance also has
proposals for a noise ordinance and that would require two different standards one for daytime operations
and one for nighttime operation. If your particular daytime operation is not able to comply with the night
time standard you are going to have shut down at an hour that will determine or you will determine as a
part of your codifying the zoning ordinance.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Can we go back retroactively?
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-I don't know the answer to that question.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-I don't think you can.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-Typically no is the short answer. For noise it's a unique
situation you can bring things into compliance. I don't know if there is an amortization time frame or if it's
all going to be considered a preexisting land use that's not going to comply with your new regulation it is a
difficult question.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Craig did talk to Skateland today they agreed to try to cut the noise down.
They agreed to muffler the vehicles that aren't muffled properly.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-It's events like this when I first heard about the idea of a noise ordinance I was
an opponent to the idea because I fully recognize the ramifications that come with such and there is a lot of
them and it is not going to be the panacea either. I want to be very clear about that in my estimation it is
not going to be the be all and end all to solve the noise problems, but be that as it may given the amount of
complaints that are now pilling up I'm in favor of it. I say that fully recognizing the enforcement issues and
all the rest that go with it.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-What comes with that Jim is enforcement.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I'll go on the record right now saying I'm in favor of providing it's well drafted.
I know we have to go through some drafts to get there with public inclusion and all that, but I'm on the side
right now of a proponent. I'll tell you what I'm getting in my area motorcycles. . . . . .
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Tell me about motorcycles.
MRS. BRAMLEY-That's what go-karts sound like twenty-five of them all at the same time.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I'm just telling you if I've got one complaint in the short time that I've been in
this position I've gotten a dozen. I've instructed every constituent please send along a letter to the entire
Board and to the Supervisor so that they are aware of the problem. We have an impending noise ordinance
being drafted I'm in favor of it in representation of that constituency that's where I'm coming from I'm in
favor of it, it has gotten to the point where we need it.
MRS. BRAMLEY-Is they're some way the sophistication of the mufflers that they are using can be
investigated in terms of can they possibly get anything quieter?
COUNCILMAN STEC- They say this is the best muffler and really there is ten others that are better.
MRS. BRAMLEY-I'd like to know the brand. I'd like to know who says it's the best.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-In that regard Joanne maybe we can impose upon Chris if we can get a little
constructed about this. . . . . . we don't have a whole lot to work with here now we don't have a pending
project before us or something like that with the go-karts. Could we offer like a mediation type format or
bring both parties to the table.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-We're trying that.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-And sit down and see if they will talk. You have a neighborhood association
you have format to do this with. We certainly can bring in the two parties in question and see if we can
constructively arrive at some points of improvement.
MRS. BRAMLEY-I don't know anyone easier to talk to than Earl Mileson and that man spent the entire
Spring, Summer, and Fall talking to the Ferraro's. He was down there, they were at his house and they
talked, and they talked, and they are very pleasant and nothing ever happens. I'm sure we would be more
than willing to talk again.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-They did voluntarily put those better-improved mufflers on all their system two
years ago. I stopped at their place of business when I was a County Supervisor and thanked them for taking
the remedial action voluntarily they said they wanted to be good neighbors.
MRS. BRAMLEY-They weren't good neighbors because they didn't have the courtesy....! would of
thought in all honestly that they could have had the courtesy to have let us know that they were going to
running the go-karts to five thirty in the morning. . . . . ..
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-That's my point.
MRS. BRAMLEY-Not once, but twice. There are other people that have more to say about that than I do.
In closing I would just like to read a neighbors from Chris Bocko Wettersten, 23 Twicwood. Skateland and
Adventure Racing are now in operation they don't need to advertise in Twicwood we just need to open a
window or sit on a porch. Some noise reduction has been accomplished but more is needed. Great Escape
too will soon be opening its gates and again Twicwood has its windows shut in anticipation. The test runs
on the bobsled must be going well they sound just as they did last year from my backyard. No one
questions the need for business to exist; no one questions the need for housing. Why does this community
have such a hard time balancing the needs of both? Should three businesses which creates excessive noise
be allowed within one half mile of each other so close to a residential area? The community needs tools to
accomplish a balance noise ordinances are no more out of the ordinary tools for evaluating options than are
tax base calculations already in place. Quality of life issues are no longer looming in the future they are
here now. Thank you for this opportunity to voice my concerns.
Letter from Michelle Hubbs. I was really distressed on Saturday evening May 6th, to be going to bed to the
sound of go-karts. I really object to the extreme noise and would prefer to hear the crickets.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-From my standpoint to be responsive to your concerns I think we've discussed
three points so far. Get a noise ordinance it's already underway we will be looking at that. The Order to
Remedy Violation. The ideas of the continued meditation so there are three things there that we can begin
at least to progress on.
MRS. BRAMLEY -Meditation to discuss about noise buffering and perhaps hours....
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Hours other mufflers anything on the table to talk about ways to get this noise
level down and controlled.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-We said we're going to talk about two weeks from when Jim?
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-I'll defer to Chris and Craig on that one.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-I'll check with Craig tomorrow he was out at the site I don't
know if he had given them a verbal already, but we'll follow up with it.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Stuff like that just really drives me nuts. I don't go for that at all.
MRS. BRAMLEY-Thank you.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Anyone else care to address the board at this time?
DOUG AUER, 16 OAKWOOD DRIVE-I would just like to say that we could hear this with the windows
closed. We're in the middle of Oakwood Drive a good distance further up than where Joanne is we never
heard this before. What I have. . . . . . .
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Was that the go-karts early in the morning?
MR. AUER-Yeah on both nights. This is June 22nd; Planning Board Meeting minutes I really suggest you
folks read this. Particularly actually the point that's solvent is the part that deals with exactly what they are
talking about tonight. This was a very long discussion within the Planning Board......
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Is that June oflast year Doug?
MR. AUER-Yes. You really need to look at that okay. I'm not going to bother to read any of that, but it
goes to the heart of this. What I think is the important issue here is we have folks making decisions about
very technical things that quite honestly they don't know anything about. You talk about DB's there are
very few people that understand what DB's are, I'm fortunate I have an engineering background I do
understand what it is. I think what needs to be done when these very arcane issues come up is to rather than
cavalier manners in which these things are dismissed, I think you see a little bit of that when people talk
about SEQRA's and these no, no, noes, that do down negative dee, boom now we're faced with a problem
and it gets dumped into the Planning Board hands to handle it after the decision has already been made.
These are things that you need people that understand this stuff and can deal with it this is not rocket
science. I can tell you with absolute certainty you can quite those go-karts and it's not by putting mufflers
on them it's by building accoustible barriers. They may not look good matter off act they'll probably look
like hell, but I don't think that if they are going to be permitted to have that there then those are the kind of
things that need to be done. Trees are nice they are pretty, but they are not going to do anything to
attenuate the sound. You need to attenuate the signal close to the source that's true of acoustics, or radio
waves, or light waves, or anything. My suggestion is read this and start doing your homework folks we're
under attack.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Anyone else care to address the board at this time?
PAT GORMLEY -First of all, I appreciate the optimism of what you just said especially Mr. Martin in
supporting us in this issue. I just want to give you a first hand account of what it's like to live pretty close
to the go-karts. The last two nights that everyone has been talking about the five a.m., I was up the entire
night listening to the go-karts. I can go to my front bedroom window and I can see the lights and I can
actually see the cars going around the track. My wife and I moved here actually we're coming up on our
first year anniversary in Twicwood.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Welcome.
MR. GROMLEY -Thank you very much. Actually we've been welcomed a lot it's a great neighborhood
we've been doing a lot of work around the house as our neighbors will attest to trying to make it our home
where we want to stay for a long time. As a board I hope you will look at my wife and I as people you
want to also invest your time and energy in because I think that's what we look to you for. Again, I
appreciate your support and I hope when the EIS comes out that if we have some noise ordinance issues
that you'll back us then, too. Thank you very much.
DON SIPP, COURTHOUSE DRIVE-I do not hear the go-karts, but in reference to noise ordinance I spent
a lot of time this winter in Florida in front of a computer.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Welcome back by the way.
MR. SIPP- There are hundreds of articles collected on the internet about noise ordinance in which all that is
needed according to many of these is to state a date and the conditions and they must be complied with
within a certain length of time. Many of them deal with lawnmowers leave blowers, motorcycles, and car
radios. There are none in there for amusement parks, which I searched and searched for they just don't
seem to come up with them. It can be done the biggest problem seems to be amongst the people who have
put in the noise ordinance is the enforcement thereof. That seems to be somebody who can read a decibel
meter according to the specifications along with time of day, humidity, wind direction so forth this
becomes the tough part. I think what is happening in this neighborhood is something that has to be
addressed plus once the Great Escape starts up what happens in Courthouse, what happens on Glen Lake? I
have a lot of affection for Twicwood I owned the sixth house in that development one time bought the lot
when it was a dirt road on Cedarwood Drive. There was one of the business men along Route 9 who said
some months ago that anybody who built in there, who lived in there should expect that because they are
adjacent to a highway commercial area. The problem I think is that although businesses have rights the
citizens who own these houses and many have been there for thirty years have rights also. These rights I
think are being trampled on by some of these businesses who operate after midnight and with noise
producing apparatuses. I think it's up to the board to find a good enforcement system and make it work.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Betty do you have something?
BETTY MONAHAN-I don't have my blue book with me so I don't know if the suggestion has merit or not.
We do have an off road vehicle ordinance in this Town with a lot of requirements in it whether or not these
go-karts could go under that ordinance I don't know, but there are muffler requirements and etc. I think one
thing this Town needs to do is outlaw outdoor speakers they are really quite a pain in the neck in a lot of
these places. My third suggestion is the Planning Department develops a checklist for the Planning Board
of these various items that create such a problem. When they are.... .that they always be included in the
resolution when they are passed. There is too much that is in discussion that never goes into resolution and
that includes the Town Board as well, frankly. Motorcycle mufflers I have had a decibel reader on a
motorcycle muffler that properly done a motorcycle muffler is lower than a lawnmower. My last point is
no CO should ever be given if a site plan is not in compliance we're giving CO's where we shouldn't be
giving them.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-That's right I'll agree with that.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Thank you Betty.
CHRIS CORNELL, 6 CEDARWOOD DRIVE-There are an awful lot of issues that are floating around in
my head at the moment. Somebody brought up from the previous conversations here let me just kind of go
through several of them. I did appreciate the Skateland business putting mufflers on the go-karts, but I
didn't really notice a very noticeable change in as far as the volume that I was hearing. A couple nights
back to the first five thirty in the morning go-kart races that were going on I have a window air conditioner
it's about four feet from our bed and luckily I can turn it on and it was hot enough and I had it going. As
soon as the condenser would kick off it would just go to the fan you could hear the go-karts going around.
I woke up about two thirty in the morning and to my amazement I looked at the clock and said, I can't
believe they are still going around and around. An interesting thing was normally there is some sort of a
reprieve where they are changing because the time limit is up as far as people are getting on the carts and
people are getting off the carts. I just kept on hearing it going on and on and on, I thought wow I can figure
out how they can continue to go round and round. I just about started to doze off again when I heard the
tires skid and I heard a metal pole being hit it actually woke me up. I mean at two thirty in the morning
when you are starting to hear these things and recognize the pattern it is not something that really makes
you happy it's more than just even mufflers folks. I can hear when the tires are sliding around the track and
I'm sure any of you could if you were at our house and I had the air conditioner on or off in that bedroom
you could actually tell when they are skidding around the track. That's one particular issue that I wanted to
mention. I think also what your seeing here is you have this business person who is actually testing the
waters he's seeing that, hey I can actually earn some extra money by being opened until five thirty and kind
of getting this whole new market that I never even thought about. What's going to happen is you are going
to have other schools say, hey I heard about these kids doing it and it sounded pretty neat why don't we do
it for the next year. Then your going to see instead of one or two you are going to see several then your
going to have school districts that are further away then they are going to want to try it. I think what your
seeing is how far can we push the time limit on these amusement rides. There is going to be competition
between the other go-kart parks because they are going to want to cash in on some of that as well. I think,
again the time period I think is so crucial to really consider that and think about it. You had Great Escape
and their concerts going on and I just loved how the windows in our family room starting rattling because
the "Christian groups" were playing there rock music. I don't care whose making the noise I'm thinking at
two thirty in the morning how I love to just get on my dirt bike I had as a kid and pull right out in front of
his house and just leave it idling until five thirty in the morning. I love to have the police come and say, sir
you need to turn that off I say; well there is really no policy in place for that. Those are sort of the thoughts
that I'm thinking at this hour it's very obnoxious. Another thing as far as noise is concerned. My friend got
a new job this summer in Lake George and I wasn't prepared to talk about this I don't know what he be
called ranger or some sort of enforcer on the lake. He rides around on a boat and he can issue fines for
speeding in certain areas, noise pollution. I said what do you mean Dan noise pollution. He said well he
said now we can actually give two different tests to see if a boat is in compliance with our codes on Lake
George I said really how does your test work? We have this device that measures decibels and the owner
of the boat has two choices and they can pick which one they want to do. They can do a drive by at a
certain distance, certain speed, and we can measure how loud the boats are. They can pull up next to us and
we can put the microphone somewhere near the exhaust pipe and let it idle. We can take either approach
and if they are not in compliance then something happens. Our next Town over they are actively trying to
eliminate this to please the residents of Lake George instead of Queensbury following on their coat tails I
like to see some sort of cutting edge policy put in place we're actually starting to lead the way. That's what
I'd like to say as far as noise and go-karts and Great Escape and all that. By the way, I turned off the
lawnmower and sure enough I could hear the bobsled. I do agree emotionally being one hundred percent
honest and not emotional, I really couldn't notice the difference at all when they were doing that. Thank
you.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-You could hear the difference?
MR. CORNELL-I could not. I could actually hear before I turned off the lawnmower, but no I couldn't,
thank you.
KAREN SABO, 12 TWICWOOD LANE-I just want to mention too, I also was awake those two nights
with the prom parties at Skateland. I could go out on my deck and see the cars go around. The whole place
was lit up hear the screams, squeals, the tires, the whole thing. Another problem too, though besides just
hearing it so late night is anytime I want to go out in my backyard, paint the fence, sit by the pool, it's just
an all day long. . .. .motors' going it really is bothersome. One thing I did want to ask of the board is if it
were possible to put in place a separate noise ordinance? Just a noise ordinance for say recreational
vehicles either like motorcycles or go-karts that would be specifically put for any kind of racing go-kart
kind of things where they would have to be a certain decibel specifically for them. If these places could
not be in compliance with them that they would have to do what they would have to do to be in compliance
either a sound wall or a mesh, berm, whatever they would try to do. That why if it were something like that
that was specific and clear it was very well written so that they know what they would have to pass if they
didn't they would have to either be shut down or go through the fines as Mr. Martin mentioned. I just
wanted to ask the board if that were a possibility?
COUNCILMAN STEC-We kicked this around before. A lot of the fears or hesitation that I've heard from
the professionals on this has been enforcement how do you make it apply universally. I would prefer if it
makes it easier fragment the approach fragment the approach say this kind of activity.... .you can do it with
time limits, do it zone classifications, you can do it with activities. You may be able to say between the
hours of such, and such, no engines outdoors smaller than this. You can envelope everything that's short of
an actual.. . traffic vehicle a motorcycle, but not a dirt bike, not a lawnmower, leaf blower. It flies in the
face of common sense that we can't get a handle on this problem. I sat here last year and I listened to the
same people come around and kick this around last with the other board and it really bothers me to be
reacting all the time.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-Don't ask why, but the other day I had the opportunity to read the City of
Portland, Oregon zoning ordinance. The City of Portland, Oregon zoning ordinance mandates in certain
areas that when something comes in for what they have an equivalent of site plan review it mandates that a
community good neighbor plan has to be submitted. The ordinance specified what the content of a
community good neighbor plan is. In this particular instance they talk about ways to keep crime down
things like that. What I'm thinking is since were on a threshold of a new zoning ordinance maybe
something like this especially in these fringe areas where we have and it's a continuing problem where we
have residential zones in close contact with commercial zones. If we had such a thing and I'm just thinking
out loud here if we had such a thing in place that would specify a community good neighbor plan, but in
this particular case it would require that if there is a neighborhood association in place... that's what this did
it required that the business had to maintain regular contact with its residential neighbors and they talked
about issues of the day. Maybe we reached that point in this community I'm not saying universally, but
maybe like in a overlay zone manner where we have these points of contact and they are continually points
of irritation you could specify such a thing. The thing I like about is that would open up a line of
communication and require that it be maintained forever.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-That's an interesting concept.
COUNCILMAN STEC-For a certain percentage you need the stick. Right now the complaint is we have
no stick there is nothing with any teeth. You can talk to some people and you can say please and that's
enough for ninety-five percent of the people, but there are five percent that's going to say you make me do
it, you make me fix it that's the frustration that these people are feeling.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-You are going to have that. My point here for example one person already said
if we had just known if somebody would have said. I can understand their point all of a sudden a Friday
night comes along and they are running until three o'clock in the morning that is unreasonable to run go-
karts until five o'clock in the morning.
MS. SABO-May I say too, that really was unreasonable it is just as annoying to listen to it all day long.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-That's going to be a tougher issue.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Like it or not that's almost like telling a business they can't be in business.
MS. SABO-They can be in business with conditions if they can keep the sound lower. I have no problem I
think the prom parties are a wonderful idea to keep the kids off the road and stuff like that. They could
operate twenty-four hours a day I have no problem with that if I didn't have to hear it. That's what I want to
ask the board if they could do something like that a separate noise ordinance? As Mr. Martin mentioned
motorcycles that are incredibly annoying, go-karts that drive people in sane something so specific that if
they can't meet this specific decibel level then they either shut down.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-What made me think of that community good neighbor plan is that if we want
to aspire this progressive community and maintain a certain quality of life this is what the leading edge
state of the art community are doing. Portland is known nation wide for its progressive land use planning
and subsequent high quality of life. It is not a mystery as to why that happens these are the types of things
we have to start considering.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I think we have to start with a noise ordinance to some degree. Motorcycles
every weekend I talk to the Sheriffs Department about motorcycles. They drive up in the back of my
property and look at me like, what the heck are you doing here I'm in their way on my own property. I'll
tell you I'm not very pleasant to be around when their in my backyard so I can understand your situation. I
don't know how you stop it only with a noise ordinance.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Thank you Karen.
LINDA MC NULTY, 14 TWICWOOD LANE-I live next door to the Sabo's and standing at my kitchen
sink I can also see the go-karts racing around. The noise from them, the noise from the Great Escape, the
noise from the Northway is ridiculous Twicwood should not have to put up with this. My husband and I
have been over to the Town meetings since about 1988 because the noise is getting increasingly worse.
Our buffer zone has been shorten to fifty feet which is totally inadequate. They rezoned the property
behind us, which we were told would be forever wild because it was single family residential nobody was
going to build right up tight to the commercial it is now barren practically. I would like to see the Town
institute a sound ordinance that maintains sound within the perimeters of the person's property that is
creating a sound it should not leave their premises if they can't accomplish that it should not be allowed to
be run. As a resident of Queensbury I couldn't get out fast enough if I could get a fair market value from
my home I do not care to be a resident of Queensbury any longer. As far as having an ordinance that cuts
the noise at midnight what about the people that have to get up at three thirty a.m. to be to work at four
thirty does that mean they get three and a half hours of sleep. It takes an hour to unwind sometimes I go to
bed with my CD player on my ears it is ridiculous. With the amount of clearing that the Town of
Queensbury allowed the Great Escape last summer we are subjected to the interstate as badly as if we were
living on top of it. Something needs to be done about all the noise and it needs to be done before this
season IS over.
MARYLEE GOSLINE, BLINDROCK ROAD-I have a question for the Attorney. I don't know if the
expression Disturbing the Peace what does that mean legally? If someone said your disturbing my peace
can you do something legally? Where did the expression come from?
ATTORNEY HAFNER-Disturbing the Peace is usually used in a different context. It is usually used when
someone is being violent or acting in a physical way. What I'm hearing you guys talk about is more of a
nuisance which is not a Town type of action it's an individual property owner type of action.
MRS. GOSLINE-Peace doesn't mean your tranquility it doesn't have anything to do with that?
ATTORNEY HAFNER-Not the way you are using it. I don't know what you're looking for me for.
MRS. GOSLINE-I got thinking about the term and I couldn't figure out what it meant so I just wondered if
it applied here not at all?
ATTORNEY HAFNER-I don't think it does.
KATHLEEN SALVADOR, NORTH QUEENSBURY-I can understand these peoples frustration and all,
however, I think the Town Board and the Town Planning Department, Planning Boards and all have had a
play in all of this. Here we have a commercial operation the Great Escape, which probably has been in
existence before our zoning. We have a lot of new areas opening up now where you have residential areas
butted right up to commercial. It seems to me there should some kind of a transitional area between
commercial and residential. Maybe you could have what everyone likes to say is something passive in-
between so that your not butted right up to a noisy commercial thing.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-We do have that and the zoning plan if you look at it in the areas where there
was opportunity to do that it is pretty effectively accomplished that, but these areas of irritation are pre-
existing as you say.
MRS. SAL V ADOR-I was wondering if your new master plan had that.
COUNCILMAN MARTIN-You are talking about a relatively very narrow distance. Twicwood's an old
subdivision by today's standards and the proximity of the commercial uses and the residential uses were set
in place long before anybody fully understood the ramifications of that. Now we're left here in today's
world to try and make those two co-exist.
MRS. SALVADOR-Exactly because when the Great Escape started as Storytown or whatever it was it was
almost passive. You had boats on the water, the western town you didn't have all of these roller coasters
and that sort of thing so it has grown over the years. I think that perhaps something could have been done
when all this growth was happening that you could have stopped that a little bit. It is my understanding that
a lot of trees have been cut down perhaps you could have said, all right you can do this, but you can't cut
the trees. I know when they were before the Planning Board for this big ride they were giving them all of
this information about, oh yes this was going to be sound proof insulation it was going to do this and going
to that. I don't anyone knew what they were talking about to tell you the truth because I don't think they did
it if everyone is complaining the way they are now. As I say, I do feel very sorry for them I don't know
what you are going to do.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-The bobsled ride seems to be the main culprit. John Lemery has called here a
couple weeks ago and he said that the Great Escape was addressing it trying to solve the problem. From
what I hear tonight if they have done anything it hasn't been successful to date.
MRS. BRAMLEY-I think in hearing Dan you say that your are interested in where you could have some
teeth. I would like to suggest that some incredibly substantial fines be levied and that can fund any
equipment you need for monitoring sound. I've heard three comments in the negative light tonight about
enforcement not spending taxpayers money on enforcement or time or the time of the enforcement person. I
think a lot of us would be very willing to have our tax dollars and someone's time go towards enforcement.
My second brief comment is the lady who spoke from Blindrock Road. It occurred to me that perhaps what
she is asking is what is the difference in a resident Disturbing the Peace by maybe having a party or playing
a lot of loud music? Paying the consequences for it by having a Sheriff drive up and say, you know you're
in violation because that does happen to a resident the only difference is that a commercial person is
allowed to do it. Why when there is chance for economic gain are you allowed to make excessive noise,
but when your are doing it as a resident it falls under a whole different standard that is a double standard?
COUNCILMAN STEC-I agree.
JOHN SALVADOR-With regard to the noise problem. I can tell you that the Lake George Town Planning
Board is limiting the time of operation of businesses restricting their time of operation restricting what they
can do in and outdoors between certain hours. In our own business we are not obligated to do this, but we
do close our cocktail lounge at midnight because we know maybe after midnight it is going to disturb the
neighborhood there are certain things you can do. Maybe in addition to the noise level you should
seriously consider time of operation. There didn't seem to be any problem with the Great Escape when they
closed at six didn't seem to be any problem at all. It's kind of sharing the time that the neighbors get from
six on and the business gets up to six o'clock the resources are limited we have to learn to share them. I
think that maybe a time of operation is the solution here. There is absolutely no reason for a prom party to
go on all night absolutely any reason for it.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I think everybody sitting up here agrees with that John.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Your right.
MR. SALVADOR-Then the thing to do is take the bull by the horns and go for a ordinance that limits the
commercial activity in a concentrated area like Route 9 to a time of operation that's the way to do it. I think
it would solve the neighbor's problems and it would solve....
COUNCILMAN TURNER-I think time has more teeth than a decibel meter it is easily enforced that's it it's
over done.
MR. SAL V ADOR- That's all I have to say on that subject is there is anyone here that would like to speak on
that I think you should continue and I'll defer my other comments to later.
RACHELLE GORMLEY, 1 TWICWOOD LANE-Although, I appreciate your support I kind of like the
idea of limiting the sound all the time as opposed to just a certain hour obviously opening till midnight. As
a teacher I like to go to bed about nine because I get up at six even grading papers at seven or eight o'clock
at night listening to the go-karts is very disturbing. So to just limit it at midnight or whatever to me
wouldn't be enough.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Anyone else care to speak.
MR. SALVADOR-Asked if Supervisor Brower has informed the board members regarding issues
pertaining to the Lake George law. Asked to have this discussed in workshop session or to present a
progress report. Requested a workshop session regarding zoning district boundaries. Spoke to the board
regarding the county wanting to license waste haulers in the County noted he thinks this would be a bad
idea. Spoke to the board regarding an article in the newspaper Americade Creates Market for Room
Rentals noting this would be in violation of the zoning ordinance also noted other businesses in his area
that are in violation of the zoning ordinance.
PLINEY TUCKER, DIVISION ROAD, QUEENSBURY-Questioned where the transfer of funds are
coming from and the amount?
SUPERVISOR BROWER-It is coming from contingency for recreation for $15,000.
MR. TUCKER-Questioned the Resolution Authorizing Agreement between the Town of Queensbury and
the Queensbury Union Free School District.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-It is a maintenance agreement over the tennis court.
MR. TUCKER-Questioned the Resolution Increasing Appropriations and Appropriate Fund Balance in
Various Towns Operating Funds.
CONTROLLER, MR. HESS-4.11 is establishing the reserves to cover the liability for the old workers
comp claims.
MR. TUCKER-Questioned resolution regarding Queensbury Forest.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-It is the use of Glens Falls Watershed property to help us with the groundwater
situation at Queensbury Forest.
MR. TUCKER-Noted he hopes this will be the solution noting some of the people have had five and six
feet of water in their basement under these conditions septic systems do not work.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Noted tests will be done.
MR. TUCKER-Asked if tests will be done prior to hiring an engineer?
SUPERVISOR BROWER-It is part of the scope of works.
MR. TUCKER-Questioned how they will hold the City of Glens Falls harmless if this creates a problem?
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Noted a retention pond will be created on the Glens Falls side of the road it is
part of their approval.
MR. TUCKER-Asked Supervisor Brower to check with the Health Department to see if they will allow this
to happen.
BETTY MONAHAN-Noted that she disagrees with Mr. Tucker regarding Queensbury Forest being created
by the Town Board thinks he analysis of the problem is incorrect. Questioned what reserves are being used
for the workers comp claims?
COMPTROLLER, MR. HESS-Total amount come to around $518,000.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Questioned how the amounts are determined from what departments?
COMPTROLLER, MR. HESS-They are claims generated by that department. Once took the sum of the
claims took the reserve and the contributed reserve of Warren County and distributed on the same ratios.
OPEN FORUM CLOSED
RESOLUTIONS
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING TRANSFER OF FUNDS FOR EMERGENCY STRUCTURAL REPAIR
WORK AT GURNEY LANE POOL
RESOLUTION NO.: 214,2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. James Martin
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board previously adopted purchasing procedures which
require that the Town Board must approve any purchase in an amount of $5,000 or greater up to New York
State bidding limits, and
WHEREAS, the Director of Parks and Recreation has advised the Town Board that emergency
structural repairs are needed at the Gurney Lane Pool and has requested Town Board authorization to
transfer funds for masonry repairs for an amount not to exceed $15,000, and
WHEREAS, the Town Recreation Commission has been apprised of the necessary repair work
and agrees that the repairs are necessary,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves and authorizes the transfer of
funds in an amount not to exceed $15,000 for actual masonry repair costs at the Gurney Lane Pool from
Contingency Account No.: 001-1990-4400 to Recreation Facility Repairs Account No.: 001-7110-4823,
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that other maintenance work to be performed on the Gurney Lane Pool shall be
charged to the Department of Parks and Recreation's regular operating budget, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Comptroller's Office to take all action necessary to transfer funds and amend the 2000 Town Budget
accordingly, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Comptroller's Office
and/or Director of Parks and Recreation to take such other and further action necessary to effectuate the
terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING TRANSFER OF FUNDS FOR TENNIS COURT REPAIR WORK AT
QUEENSBURYSCHOOL
RESOLUTION NO.: 215,2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. James Martin
WHEREAS, the Director of Parks and Recreation has advised the Town Board that repairs are
needed at the Queensbury School District's tennis courts and has requested Town Board authorization to
transfer funds for the Town's share of the repair work for an amount not to exceed $1,000, and
WHEREAS, the Town Recreation Commission adopted a Resolution supporting the Town's wish
to share in the costs of the repair work,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves and authorizes the transfer of
funds in the amount of $1,000 toward the costs of repair work at the Queensbury School's tennis courts
from Contingency Account No.: 001-1990-4400 to Miscellaneous Contractual Account No.: 001-7020-
4400, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that payment for the repairs shall be made to the Queensbury Union Free School
District, upon submission and approval of a properly executed invoice or voucher, as partial reimbursement
for work they are having performed on the tennis courts, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Comptroller's Office to take all action necessary to transfer funds and amend the 2000 Town Budget
accordingly, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Comptroller's Office
and/or Director of Parks and Recreation to take such other and further action necessary to effectuate the
terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AGREEMENT BETWEEN TOWN OF QUEENSBURY AND
QUEENSBURY UNION FREE SCHOOL DISTRICT
RESOLUTION NO. 216, 2000
INTRODUCED BY: MR. THEODORE TURNER
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: MR. DANIEL STEC
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury previously entered into a ten (10) year Agreement with the
Queensbury Union Free School District concerning Town use of the School District's tennis and basketball
courts on School District property located on Aviation Road, Queensbury, and
WHEREAS, the Agreement recently expired and the Town Board and School District wish to enter into a
new ten (10) year Agreement with provisions similar to those in the original Agreement dated April 4th,
1990, and
WHEREAS, the Town Recreation Commission is in favor of renewing the Lease Agreement, and
WHEREAS, a proposed Agreement has been presented at this meeting and is in form approved by
Town Counsel,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves and authorizes the Agreement
between the Town and Queensbury Union Free School District substantially in the form presented at this
meeting, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to execute
the Agreement and take such other and further action as may be necessary to effectuate the terms of this
Resolution.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING CHANGE ORDER NO.2 CONCERNING REPAIR AND
REPAINTING OF WEST MOUNTAIN RESERVOIR TANK AND SOUTH QUEENSBURY
STANDPIPE
RESOLUTION NO.: 217,2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. James Martin
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 380.99, the Queensbury Town Board awarded the bid for the
repair and repainting of the West Mountain Reservoir Tank (Tank) and South Queensbury Standpipe to
AMSTAR of Western New York (AMSTAR) for an amount not to exceed $423,400, and
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 199.2000, the Queensbury Town Board approved Change Order
No. 1 for the project in the amount of $8,250 as there were more pits within the Tank that AMST AR
needed to weld than was originally estimated by the Town, and
WHEREAS, the Water Superintendent has advised the Town Board that due to the increased
number of pits found in the Tank, AMST AR will need to use more seam sealer than was originally
included in the contract and therefore has recommended that the Town Board approve Change Order NO.2
in the amount of $13,800 bringing the total contract amount to $445,450, and
WHEREAS, C. T. Male Associates, P.C., the Town's engineer on this project, has also advised
and recommended that the Town approve Change Order No.2, and
WHEREAS, Change Order NO.2 has been presented at this meeting and is in form approved by
Town Counsel,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves Change Order NO.2 concerning
AMSTAR of Western New York's repair and repainting of the West Mountain Reservoir Tank (Tank) and
South Queensbury Standpipe in the amount of $13,800 as presented at this meeting, thus bringing the total
contract amount to $445,450, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor and/or
Water Superintendent to execute Change Order NO.2 and take such other and further action as may be
necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING RELEASE OF PORTION OF ESCROW FUNDS IN CONNECTION
WITH CENTRAL QUEENSBURY QUAKER ROAD SEWER DISTRICT EXT. #6 - EVEREST
ENTERPRISES, INC.
RESOLUTION NO.: 218, 2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. James Martin
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 316.99, the Queensbury Town Board established and authorized
Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District Extension NO.6 and executed a Sewer Extension
Agreement with the Developer, Everest Enterprises, Inc. (Everest), and
WHEREAS, Everest agreed to deposit funds in escrow with the Town to cover costs related to
construction of the sewer facilities, engineering and other related expenses, and
WHEREAS, by Town Board Resolution No.: 443.99, the Town Board authorized the return ofa
portion of escrow funds to Everest and retained the balance of escrow funds as requested by the Deputy
Director of Wastewater (Deputy Director), and
WHEREAS, by Memorandum dated May 5th, 2000, the Deputy Director has advised the Town
Board that Everest has completed three punch list items and therefore recommends that the Town release
$3,000 from the escrow funds held by the Town to Everest and retain the remainder to cover the one-year
guarantee and Glens Falls Wastewater Treatment Plant Buy-In Costs and any remaining costs,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes the return of $3,000 in escrow
funds to Everest Enterprises, LLC, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes retention of the escrow funds in
the approximate amount of $7,400, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Comptroller's Office
and/or Wastewater Department to take such other and further actions necessary to effectuate the terms of
this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING ON PROPOSED LOCAL LAW NO. OF 2000 TO
AMEND QUEENSBURY TOWN CODE CHAPTER 136, ARTICLE XXIV ENTITLED,
"ESTABLISHMENT OF SEWER RENTS"
RESOLUTION NO. 219,2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board wishes to consider adoption of Local Law No.: _ of
2000 to amend Queensbury Town Code Chapter 136, Article XXIV entitled, "Establishment of Sewer
Rents," which Local Law would minimally modify sewer rent rates in the Central Queensbury Quaker
Road and Hiland Park Sewer Districts, and
WHEREAS, this legislation is authorized in accordance with New York State Municipal Home
Rule Law ~1O and Town Law Article 16, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to set a public hearing concerning adoption of this Local
Law,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board shall meet and hold a public hearing at the
Queensbury Activities Center, 742 Bay Road, Queensbury at 7:00 p.m. on June 5th, 2000 to hear all
interested persons and take any necessary action provided by law concerning proposed Local Law No.: _
of 2000, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Queensbury Town Clerk to
publish and post a Notice of Public Hearing concerning proposed Local Law No. _ of 2000 in the manner
provided by law.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION REAPPOINTING AND APPOINTING NEW MEMBERS! DIRECTORS OF
QUEENSBURY ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION (QEDC)
RESOLUTION NO.: 220,2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. James Martin
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 181,99 the Queensbury Town Board appointed new
MembersIDirectors of the Queensbury Economic Development Corporation (QEDC), and
WHEREAS, the terms of three of the MembersIDirectors will soon expire and the QEDC has
requested that the Town Board reappoint those MembersIDirectors and also appoint one new
MemberIDirector,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby reappoints and appoints the following
MembersIDirectors of the Queensbury Economic Development Corporation (QEDC):
1. Lou Buck
3 Year Term
2. Dave Capron -
3 Year Term
3. Bern Zovistoski
3 Year Term
4. Dan Hazewski -
3 Year Term
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION APPOINTING SANDRA KELLEY AS SUBSTITUTE SCHOOL TRAFFIC OFFICER
RESOLUTION NO. 221,2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. James Martin
WHEREAS, a vacant substitute School Traffic Officer (Crossing Guard) position exists within the
Town of Queensbury and the Town Board wishes to appoint someone to this position,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby appoints Sandra Kelley as a substitute
School Traffic Officer (Crossing Guard) effective May 16th, 2000 at the current rate of pay for the position,
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor and/or
Town Comptroller's Office to complete any forms and take any actions necessary to effectuate the terms of
this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION TO AMEND 2000 BUDGET
RESOLUTION NO.: 222,2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board wishes to authorize fund transfers for the 2000 Budget
and the Chief Fiscal Officer has approved the requests,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Comptroller's Office to take all action necessary to transfer funds and amend the 2000 Town Budget as
follows:
BUILDING AND GROUNDS:
FROM:
TO:
$ AMOUNT:
01-3310-2002
(Traffic Signals)
01-1620-4110-0022
(Vehicle Repair & Maintenance)
1,500.
HIGHWAY:
FROM:
TO:
$ AMOUNT:
04-5110-4400
(Highway Repair)
04-5140-4001
(Brush, Weed Misc.)
7,000.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING WATER TANK LEASE AGREEMENT BETWEEN TOWN OF
QUEENSBURY AND INDEPENDENT WIRELESS ONE LEASED REAL TY CORPORATION
RESOLUTION NO. 223, 2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. James Martin
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury, on behalf the Queensbury Consolidated Water District, owns a
municipal water storage tank located on Luzerne Road (Tank), and
WHEREAS, the Independent Wireless One Leased Realty Corporation (Wireless One) wishes to lease
space on the Tank's exterior and on a portion of the property surrounding the Tank together with the right to
access the Tank and site to install personal communications service system transmission and/or receiver
equipment, and
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board, Water Superintendent, Town Comptroller and Wireless
One have negotiated leasing terms and are ready to enter into a Lease Agreement, and
WHEREAS, a copy of the proposed Lease Agreement has been presented at this meeting and is in
form approved by Town Counsel,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves and authorizes the Lease
Agreement with Independent Wireless One Leased Realty Corporation substantially in the form presented
at this meeting, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Water Superintendent
to approve Exhibits A and B to the Lease Agreement, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Water Superintendent
to execute the Lease Agreement and take such other and further action as may be necessary to effectuate
the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION INCREASING APPROPRIATIONS AND
APPROPRIATED FUND BALANCE IN VARIOUS
TOWN OPERATING FUNDS
RESOLUTION NO.: 224,2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. James Martin
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury has established a Risk Reserve Fund for unemployment
insurance reserves and expenditures and workers' compensation reserves and expenditures, and
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 208.2000, the Queensbury Town Board authorized assumption
ofliability for the Town's workers' compensation claims predating January 1st, 2000 from the Warren
County Self-Insurance Program (Warren County), and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to fund this liability in the Risk Reserve Fund through
appropriations in associated operating funds by increasing appropriations in the associated Transfer to
Other Funds Account and increasing Appropriated Fund Balance,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Comptroller's Office to increase appropriations in the Transfer to Other Funds Account and increase the
1999 Appropriated Fund Balance by transferring liability amounts to the Risk Retention Fund in the
amounts of:
1)$34,857.40 - General Fund;
2)$160,423.94 - Highway Fund;
3)$2,498.00 - Quaker Road Sewer District; and
4)$4,013.66 - Queensbury Water
from the 1999 Appropriated Fund Balance to fund the workers' compensation claims referred to in this
Resolution, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town Comptroller's Office to
transfer funds, amend the 1999 Town Budget and take such other and further action necessary to effectuate
the terms and provisions of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING JUDY FISH TO CARRY OVER THREE (3) UNUSED DAYS OF
VACATION TIME
RESOLUTION NO.: 225,2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. James Martin
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, Judy Fish, Deputy Tax Receiver, has requested Town Board approval to carry over
three (3) vacation days beyond her employment anniversary date,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes Judy Fish to carry over three (3)
vacation days to be utilized prior to December 31, 2000.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT :None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ENGAGEMENT OF NACE ENGINEERING, P.C. FOR SURVEYING
AND ENGINEERING SERVICES FOR PROPOSED DRAINAGE OUTFALL FROM QUEENSBURY
FOREST SUBDIVISION PHASE III TO NORTH SIDE OF PEGGY ANN ROAD
RESOLUTION NO.: 226,2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. James Martin
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board previously authorized the engagement of the services of
Nace Engineering, P.c. (Nace) to define the magnitude of high ground water problems within the
Queensbury Forest Subdivision Phase III and explore alternative solutions to resolve the drainage issues
within Queensbury Forest, and
WHEREAS, Nace has completed this work and is now prepared to provide additional surveying
and engineering services for the proposed drainage outfall from Queensbury Forest Phase III to the north
side of Peggy Ann Road, and
WHEREAS, by letter dated May 15th, 2000 and presented at this meeting, Nace has offered to
perform the additional surveying and engineering services for an amount not to exceed $12,000, such
services to include but not be limited to, survey work, coordination and provision of engineering for water
quality testing, preparation of design drawings and details, provision of property and engineering
information to assist in negotiating easements, preparation of final engineering design and detail drawings,
coordination with public utility companies and periodic meetings with Town personnel,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes the engagement of Nace
Engineering, P. C. to provide the surveying and engineering services described above and delineated in its
May 15th letter for an amount not to exceed $12,000 to be paid for from the appropriate account, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to execute
any documentation and take any action necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
CORRESPONDENCE
NONE
PLANNED DISCUSSIONS
MARYLEE GOSLINE - BEAUTIFICATION COMMITTEE
Discussion held regarding beautifying the corridors of the Town noting she was asked by one of the board
members if the Beautification Committee would be interested in expanding its role. Locations interested in
beautifying are Route 9 and 254 the intersection, Exit 18; Bay Road noting there is a tremendous
opportunity by virtue of the width of the right a way. After further discussion it was the decision of the
Town Board to do an RFP for design work for Route 9, 254 intersection. Executive Director, Mr. Round to
report back to the board in four to six weeks final product.
LAND TRUST
Executive Director, Mr. Round and Director of Parks & Recreation, Mr. Hansen updated the board
regarding the land trust. Presented the board with a copy of the draft by-laws noting it talks about
membership, purpose of the organization. Attorney Schachner provided board with memo dated May 1st.
Do not yet have articles of incorporation, but did bring forward that issue. Have contacted ten individuals
who are going to be the Board of Directors for the organization noted eight have expressed a commitment,
two expressed an interest. Have explored the legal issues associated with the land trust. Director of Parks
& Recreation, Mr. Hansen spoke to the board regarding funding issues; cost of formation, cost of acquiring
land, cost of operating. After further discussion Executive Director, Mr. Round noted he would try to
finalize this sometime in June.
BIKE TRAILS
Discussion held regarding bike trail. Executive Director, Mr. Round noted in March a joint meeting was
held with the Transportation Council and the Queensbury Recreation Department and the Ad Hoc
Committee on bicycle planning issues. Have identified select routes have chosen three select routes to
build on connections to the Warren County Bike Trail and the Feeder Canal Trail they are Potter Road;
Dixon Road connection which would provide access to Kensington Road and the City of Glens Falls. Also
looked at Sherman Avenue as a central corridor for connection to the residential properties as well as the
connection to the Glens Falls City School District new play fields at the end of Veterans Road. Connection
to Feeder Canal by Veterans and Richardson Street potentially with a side route down Fourth or Fifth Street
in lieu of going down the Richardson Street hill. Met with the Highway Department several times do not
yet have dollar values associated with the costs for the improvements will be doing this in the coming
weeks and months. Executive Director, Mr. Round will come back to the board with some fix costs and
implementation schedule for how improvements are going to be constructed.
ATTORNEY MATTERS
NONE
TOWN COUNCILMEN'S CONCERNS
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. ROUND-Spoke to the board regarding cost of survey for Burke Drive.
Presented board with survey cost from Van Dusen & Steves for $2,750.00 for fifty-foot wide corridor along
Burke Drive. Noted it starts at Aviation Road comes down Burke Drive enters what we think of as private
road goes to bus stop this is the extent of the survey and propose sidewalks. After further discussion the
following resolution was passed.
RESOLUTION HIRING VAN DUSEN AND STEVES LAND SURVEYORS, LLC FOR PROPERTY
LINE AND TOPOGRAPHICAL SURVEY FIFTY FOOT WIDE CORRIDOR ALONG BURKE DRIVE
RESOLUTION NO. 227,2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, Matt Steves, of Van Dusen and Steves by his letter of May 11th, 2000 has provided a quote
for a total cost of $2,750.00 for a property line and topographical survey of a 50 foot wide corridor along
Burke Drive, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board would like Van Dusen and Steves to do such work,
NOW THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes the engagement of Van Dusen and
Steves Land Surveyors, LLC to provide such surveying services described above and delineated in such
letter for a amount not to exceed $2,750.00, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that such fund shall come from the appropriate account as established by the Town
Comptroller, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to execute any
documentation take any action necessary to effectuate the terms of this resolution.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brower
Noes: None
AbsentNone
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING
RESOLUTION NO. 228, 2000
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Regular Town Board
Meeting.
Duly adopted this 15th day of May, 2000, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mr. Martin, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
Noes: None
AbsentNone
No further action taken.
On motion, the meeting was adjourned.
Respectfully Submitted,
Darleen M. Dougher
Town Clerk
Town of Queensbury