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2001-08-29 SP SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING TOWN OF QUEENSBURY-CITY OF GLENS FALLS AUGUST 29, 2001 7:00 P.m. TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER COUNCILMAN JAMES MARTIN COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER CITY OF GLENS FALLS COMMON COUNCIL MAYOR ROBERT A. REGAN COUNCIL PRESIDENT KAY SAUNDERS 1ST. WARD COUNCILMAN JOHN A. DIAMOND 3RD. WARD COUNCILMAN HAROLD G. T AYLOR 5TH WARD COUNCILMAN 1. SCOTT P AUQUETTE GUESTS Leonard Fosbrook-President of the Warren County Economic Development Corp. (Moderator) Town of QueensburyComptroller Henry Hess Town of Queensbury Water/Wastewater Supt. Ralph VanDusen Deputy Wastewater Supt. Mike Shaw Warren County Supervisor Nick Caimano Chairman of the Warren County Board of Supervisor's Bill Thomas Warren County Supervisor Jack Moynihan Warren County Treasurer Frank O'Keefe Town Supervisor Dennis Brower-Welcome to a joint meeting between the City of Glens Falls and the Town of Queensbury over sewer negotiations for increase sewer capacity at the Glens Falls Plant. We thank you for coming this evening, the Mayor is here along with Kay Saunders, Bud Taylor, Jack Diamond, and Scott Pauquette and of course Chris Round is not here this evening he has a zoning meeting going on in North Queensbury. Henry Hess is here our Town Comptroller, Ralph VanDusen Director of Water and Wastewater, Darleen Dougher our Town Clerk, Jim Martin our Ward I Councilman, Ted Turner our Ward II, Dan Stec Ward III, Tim Brewer Ward IV and I am Dennis Brower, and Mayor Regan from the City of Glens Falls. I want to thank everyone for coming tonight we are going to try to have meetings on every Wednesday night basis until we can hopefully resolve this. I think we have got to continue to hammer our differences out and hopefully come to an agreement in a short period of time. With that I guess, the Mayor hada paper do you want to hand that around Mr. Mayor. He had a paper that Mayor Robert Regan-A proposed agenda. Town Supervisor Brower-define some of the differences that we currently have. Ralph VanDusen has a sheet that he will pass out that were kind of minutes from the past meeting as he took them down at the time if that will be helpful to anybody. Maybe helpful to individuals that were not at our last meeting. City Councilman Harold Taylor-Dennis I had a suggestion before the meeting starts, at the last meeting there were people talking and they did not know who to address to get the floor and so on. What do you think about having an independent third party moderator? I would suggest Mr. Fosbrook if he would be willing to do it at least he could run the meeting and keep it orderly and so on . Town Supervisor Brower-You mean as far as recognizing people to speak, that type of thing? City Councilman Taylor-At the last meeting no one seemed to be running it, at least I was not aware that there was. Town Supervisor Brower-I do not object to that I do not know how the rest the people in the room feel. Certainly I think Len would try to be fair and recognize everybody that had something to say on an issue. Are you willing Len? Why don't you come up and sit at that mic then. Len was at our last session last evening, so I can clarify the record Len is the President of the Warren County Economic Development Corporation. The new President of the Warren County Economic Development Corporation. So, he has a vested interest in seeing that an agreement is achieved hopefully between the two parties so we can move forward with economic development in our two communities. Mr. Leonard Fosbrook (Moderator)-I appreciate your allowing us to do this, in fact as the County Economic Development arm I think that is sort of our charter is to try to move economic development issues forward and I see this as a County wide issue because we have participation on the County level the City level and the Town level. I do not know how you want to progress but I guess we do have an agenda that has been put up. Town Supervisor Brower-If! could Len, I would just like to recognize other elected officials in the room that I see, Bill Thomas do you want to raise you hand, Bill is the Chairman of the Board of Warren County, Nick Caimano he is an At Large Supervisor for the Town of Queensbury, Treasurer O'Keefe, Warren County Treasurer, and I think that is all the elected officials I see Jack Moynihan our Glens Falls Warren County Supervisor from Glens Falls. Jack and I have worked on a number of committees at the County. Thank you, go ahead Len. Moderator Fosbrook-Since it is kind of an informal meeting there are a lot of people in the audience that may want to comment, Dennis and Mayor how do you, would you like to handle that. When an issue comes up if there are people that want to comment should we recognize them? Supervisor Brower-It can become, part of the problem with so many cooks it can create disorder and ciaos but. Moderator Fosbrook- That is why I want to establish some ground rules going forward. Mayor Regan-I would suggest that we begin discussion and if there is particular information that we would feel that someone in the audience could provide to us that we could certainly ask them. Moderator Fosbrook-I think that is a good format. Town Councilman James Martin-The other thing I would like to suggest if I could impose is since you are in this capacity I would like to see that minutes at kept, I would like to see them written and then distributed to all the elected officials for either municipality and I would also like to suggest that we have a procedure by which issues are defined and the next step to be taken is adequately recorded and most importantly also who or what individual or what agency is responsible for seeing that action done so we can begin to get some structure and procedure of these negotiations. So, we will be on the same page and have the same understanding of what was said and that is in writing. That will minimize the chance misunderstanding going forward. Moderator Fosbrook-I think that is a good idea and I think we found in our last meeting that we were working from recollection as opposed to a written documents on a lot of the agreements that have been previously discussed this can eliminate that. Dennis would you mind if we prevailed on Darleen to help us with minutes? Town Supervisor Brower-She is actually taking I think you have the recorder running, correct. Will you record the or type out the minutes when they are completed. Town Clerk Darleen Dougher-Yes. Moderator Fosbrook-And we will see to it that they will get distributed to the proper parties we will work together on that Darleen. We have not worked together for a long time it will be nice to be doing some business with you again. Then I have the agenda that the Mayor handed out the Queensbury the Warren County, Queensbury, Glens Falls Economic Compact and I think that is really what it is in a broader sense, a sewer agreement is certainly part of that. The first item that I see on here is the Reserve capacity for Queensbury in gallons Anybody want to comment on that, I think we had a figure that was mentioned but maybe you have more on that now? Water/wastewater Supt. Ralph VanDusen-Mike Shaw and I talked about that this morning went over some numbers and it would be his and my recommendation that we reserve two million gallons a day for future sales to Queensbury, beyond the initial buy in capacity that would happen right away upon execution of the contract. Mayor Regan-Five hundred thousand now and the initial buy in capacity would be how much? Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-Seventy three thousand nine ninety. Town Councilman Tim Brewer-Are those the previous contracts that you are talking about, Ralph? Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-Those are the previous contracts it is listed on page three of your revised memorandum of understanding. In other words we would purchase that seventy three nine right away and Town Councilman Brewer-We have not paid for any of that? Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-That is correct. The South Queensbury agreement, Henry just pointed out to me the South Queensbury agreement is not listed within that, South Queensbury should be included in that as well, about a hundred thousand (100,000). Moderator Fosbrook-So, it is a little over two million one hundred thousand? Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-Yes. I would say two point two million. Moderator Fosbrook-You are projecting that over the life of the contract, which is a forty-year agreement? Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-That is correct. Town Councilman Brewer-Can I ask you a question, Ralph, I guess I do not understand why we haven't paid for any of this other, like Hiland Park, is that what we have left to buy the College the Girl Scouts, Stewarts we have not paid for any of that? Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-What has happened is as each of these district extensions were done we would have a dialog with the City that of taking them on as a customer and up until a few years ago when that occurred the contract was actually rewritten every single time one of our district extension occurred. For whatever reason these just became lumped together and we said well we are going to renegotiate the contract lets just wait and lump those all together we have collected money it is being held in escrow by the various agencies that are listed or for the agencies that are listed here and it was just assumed a long time ago that this would be revised and included as part of that contract. Town Councilman Brewer-So, in this MOU we have did we talk about everything going to seventy-five cents, or excluding these? Wasn't that conversation in this agreement? Mayor Regan--The conversation as I recall, and what was actually proposed by you guys in writing, was that these were going to be paid upon signing the MOU or sometime shortly thereafter at the prices that were arrived at, at the time those districts were created or at a time those buy in were made I should say or that capacity was reserved. However you want to say it. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-Actually technically the capacity is yet to be reserved officially. Discussions between the Town and the City dealing with this number of gallons and the dollars that are listed on page three. Moderator Fosbrook- That probably should be stated that is a minimum amount the two point one million gallons. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-The minimum that we would like held for us. We would like obviously the opportunity to purchase more if it is available but. Mayor Regan-I think that is fine we have had several internal discussions about that, we are comfortable with that. Town Councilman Brewer-So, two million plus what we have on contract now. Moderator Fosbrook-I believe the next item was relative to the Tech Park Capacity there was two numbers discussed relative was that the buy in figure? Town Supervisor Brower-Yes. Moderator Fosbrook- Fourteen thousand vs. twenty thousand and we need a clarification on that this was something that we were not sure of. Mayor Regan-I think you were correct, in that assertion that the twenty thousand was correct and that that would be in lieu of us collecting what was owed under the old agreement. Moderator Fosbrook-So, the old agreement of fourteen thousand doesn't apply Mayor Regan-Right. Moderator Fosbrook-And the new agreement with the twenty thousand replaces that. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-This would replace that, good. Moderator Fosbrook- The third item was Operation and Maintenance it was discussed that there would be a realistic twenty five percent mark up of the O&M and also there was a discussion of adding a CPI multiplier on an annual bases to that, Mayor do you have any input on that? I believe that when you were discussing this at the last meeting there was a difference of opinion whether because the actual calculation takes place at the end of the year if in fact the CPI was actually factored in and that was almost a duplication of adding it again at that time of the calculation. Mayor Regan-I guess I would suggest given that there are sort of two CPI oriented issues here in a row maybe that we talk about those together for a moment anyways. Basically, you know, obviously it has been our position that the buy in cost of seventy-five cents needs to have an annual CPI increase. I think we were at, entertain changing our position on a CPI multiplier on the O&M side if Queensbury indicated a willingness to reconsider their position on the buy in, in terms of that inflationary situation. Town Councilman Brewer-So the O&M the CPI multiplier goes out with the O&M? Moderator Fosbrook-That is what I understand. Town Councilman Brewer-And on the seventy-five cents after five years, like we discussed? Mayor Regan-Can you get more specific than that? Town Councilman Brewer-We talked about the seventy five cents not being a realistic number twenty years down the road but I think the majority of our capacity maybe not, the majority the bulk of it is going to happen in the first four or five years. So to pay with two percent of seventy five cents is pennies so after five years we can go back to that and look at the CPI factor and if it is still pennies then, in other words if we are going to move it from seventy five cents we are going to buy another hundred thousand gallons and we are talking about moving it up to seventy eight cents or seventy nine cents. Is it really worth going back for three cents on a hundred thousand? Mayor Regan-I wouldn't and anybody can step in if I get too far ahead here, I do not think that there would be a problem with looking at that in five-year increments. I guess the question is how do we structure that? I guess this is as good a time as any to sort of flush that out. Do we want to say .. Town Councilman Brewer-the first five years of the contract the price will be seventy-five cents thereafter we will look at the CPI factor or some language like that to adjust for inflation. City Councilman Harold Taylor-I would suggest that we look at the CPI factor every year and accumulate it and at the end of the five-year period apply the total increase. Mayor Regan-That way if you buy before five years that would not be tacked on but after five years ... Town Councilman Daniel Stec-the second five years do the same thing, that way it would be good for five years and after the end of the tenth year you would figure out where you would be and that is the new rate for the next five years. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-Every five years it is updated based on the previous five years expenence. Town Comptroller Henry Hess-I think it is very practical I think it is very manageable and it allows the town to know what it is selling sewer capacity at for a five-year period. Personally I think that, that's manageable. Town Councilman Brewer-So we can eliminate Town Councilman Martin-So, no CPI on O&M and CPI adjusted on the five year increments or I mean buy in for capacity is adjusted at five year increments adjusted for CPI on a cumulative basis is that the right language? Town Supervisor Brower-But not for the first five years. Town Councilman Stec- The first five years it is seventy-five cents and then on the sixth year it would be adjusted for whatever the inflation was over those five years. Town Comptroller Hess-If the cumulative CPI compounded was fifteen percent that is what we would apply to it. Town Councilman Brewer-So the O&M times twenty five percent without CPI so we can scratch that, just the O&M at twenty five percent. The next dot would be seventy-five buy in for five years from the date of the signature of the contract and then adjusted every five-year period. Town Councilman Stec-IfI could ask you a question before we get offO&M too far, maybe Henry could answer, from my recollection could you refresh our memory originally we were talking about twenty percent and then somehow we moved from twenty percent to twenty five percent. Town Comptroller Hess-We did, the twenty percent dates back to the January MOU at which time we didn't really have good numbers from the City. They took time and did a very good job of providing us a stable of numbers at that time and when we got to evaluate them there was a consensus that twenty five percent was really probably what it took to cover the things such as admin. and collection. Collection was not part of the original factor. So, it did go from twenty to twenty five but it is really more all encompassmg now. Town Councilman Stec- Twenty five percent again, I am thinking we are going to have to justify you know there is a perception in the community that this twenty five percent is a profit and I understand that it isn't. But, then we are saying it is going to cover admin. and collection, is admin. and collection twenty five percent of O&M? Ralph or you would probably be best if it is? Town Comptroller Hess-We do not keep the books but the City demonstrated and the numbers provided by the City Comptroller demonstrated that there accounting methods has indicated that there are a number of things outside the Earth Tech factors that range that some where between twenty and twenty five percent at the present time. The Town provided a twenty year schedule that shows that we do not believe that those items will increase at the same rate, they are more fixed type of expenses and they will not increase necessarily at the same rate that our flows will increase. Which means there is an inflationary factor built into them. But, one of the goals that has been prevalent throughout the negotiations is to come up with a formula that is reasonable and easy to calculate and justifiable and make sense for Glens Falls and also makes sense for the billing for our taxpayers. The twenty five percent is we will generate probably some excess revenue for the City, we think. But it is well within the range ofwat we can absorb. I did not mean to interrupt you Ralph. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-Actually when we went, there were items we were having difficulty finding a mechanism to develop a relatively simple understandable process of creating a bill without spending more for accounting services than they were going to receive on an individual basis. It seemed to work well for all of us to say ok, lets just lump those together and go from the twenty to the twenty-five. I think it is a fair thing for everybody. City Councilman 1. Scott Pauquette-So, really the only issue at this point is whether or not we use a CPI multiplier with O&M and we have already said no, right? So, that is kind of a done deal. Mayor Regan-Yes. Moderator Fosbrook-Now, the other thing I might state here is this will be a pass through cost to the consumer, isn't that right? Unknown-Yes. Moderator Fosbrook-I think from an economic development standpoint we are not setting this so high that it isn't competitive with other counties and other areas around us so that is something we can deal with as we are trying to recruit businesses. Town Comptroller Hess-Just to clarify any charge we pay the City for sewage treatment is a pass through the consumer. The CPI on the buy in is a one-time charge the CPI on the O&M would be continual charge and that could disadvantageous. Moderator Fosbrook-Ok. Any more comment on the CPI issues? All right I think we have agreement there. The next bullet item is the Bonding of the reconstruction fund Mayor Regan-We have had a lengthy discussion about this the Town has proposed that in order to fund our EP A mandated reconstruction fund that we bond for a certain amount of money and Henry can explain it ten times better than I can that it would be done in a way to enable us to have ready funds available in theoretically have a smaller impact on our budget. I had our Bond Counsel discuss this with Henry directly this week. I spoke to her this after noon and it was her opinion that she still has a lot of questions about it. She just plain isn't sure if it is legal or not. I think and correct me if I say anything out of turn here I think the consensus on the City it looks ok, it looks like it would be an ok thing to do we just want to make sure we get the sign off of our bond counsel. Town Comptroller Hess-I did speak with your bond counsel the other day it is Karen Martel and it was very pleasant to speak to a voice from the past because Karen and I had worked together some years ago on some bonding matters at another public institution. But, what came out of the conversation was really productive because we have been dealing with a concept and it is awful hard to determine a concept is legal because you have to come up with a plan that fits into legalities. But, my discussion with her revealed that if we develop a plan that said this plan is designed to fund a reconstruction that we think we could come up with language for a plan that makes it bondable under general municipal law. Could we go over a million dollars and do it if we go over a million dollars on each borrowing it makes it a competitive and brings into the question the arbitrage. It complicates the arbitrage question. What came out of the conversation with Karen is and it really solves one of Bruce's concerns all along e need to look at this more often than twenty years, is that if we were to, we can borrow a million or less without competitive we can negotiate a million or less and that is really a pretty good compromise we are talking about borrowing three point one million dollars to fund a five point one million dollar reconstruction fund over twenty years. If we were to borrow a million or slightly less than a million it would force us to look at the thing every five or six or seven years. If we were ahead or behind we could adjust at that time and still allow us to level our debt service payments for that five or six or seven years. And while we did not document that on the phone I think that we both came away with some confidence that we probably could do something like that. So, it is not the plan that I originally proposed but just so that the listeners know what we are trying to talk about is there is a reconstruction plan for twenty years that shows that there is about five point one million dollars needs to b spent on the plant to keep it current and to keep it operating over twenty year period. But, it is not one twentieth of that amount every year or nearly one twentieth. There are balloons in there that are if we were to start collecting an equal percentage of twenty or excuse me five million dollars in the first two years buy the third year we would be in the whole. We would not have enough money to do it. So, what the concept was, was lets go out and borrow originally we talked about borrow three point one million dollars which with interest earnings on the unspent portion over a twenty year period would result in spend able funds over twenty years at five point one million dollars. With a debt service being funded from annual payments by each of the users as part of our sewage fee if you will as part of your operating budget. The plan, I think Karen agreed with the plan, she thinks it is probably imaginative but she did not say no we can't do it, she said I am going to have to look into it a little futher. But, if we were to modify the borrowing amount to a million dollars as opposed to the three point one and borrow three times in that period of time would adjust it as Bruce would like to see it done, I think there is a real opportunity there. We need to do it, we need to do a little bit more exploration on it, but conceptually it doesn't change what we originally talked about and if conceptually the City is happy with it I think we would be happy with it. Mayor Regan-If you are borrowing smaller amounts for apparently shorter periods of time does that though reduce the amount that you can obviously get an interest that would off set the amount on an annual basis? Town Comptroller Hess-It probably would I am going to say three million dollars at todays rates or excuse me one million dollars at todays rates would result in about the same about of debt service. I think what we would have to do is look at it and say we have had a twenty year plan where three point one million dollars would cover what we thought would be twenty years the risk as Bruce points out is that maybe we will be ahead at the end of twenty or maybe we will be behind. If we are behind we will have to do something else. In this case we would be borrowing one million dollars if the interest rate were the same the debt service would be the same if we borrowed if for six and a third or six and two thirds years. So, while in the second or third segments of that borrowing it may change it will provide a level of debt service and for the first six years would not be more than we projected. Town Supervisor Brower-Henry I have a question for you, a couple questions for you, first of all it seems to me that is we borrowed three times that our bond costs and attorney fees and bond counsel fees would triple as well and it seems to be that the interest rate that we currently enjoy isn't going to go down much over the next ten years lets say, possibly twenty years. Ifwe could legally do it wouldn't it be prudent to consider the borrowing of the entire amount up front the five point one million or three point one million? Town Comptroller Hess-I agree, I am not backing away from the concept of the original plan but Counsel has some reservations about it and I do not think we should abandon that idea until Counsel says firmly that it cannot be done. But, and this is not our Counsel this is the City's bond counsel that we are dealing with which gives me a lot of, gives a lot of credibility for this City's point of view. Says if you were doing, at a million dollar increments we have almost no doubt so I think conceptually it will work in smaller pieces it may work still on the bigger piece. Your, I think you are right, I know you are right that cost will be slightly higher interest rates will be higher, we just borrowed today for two point eight percent, I cannot imagine in six years we can borrow for two point eight percent. Mayor Regan-But what about the spread though I mean if interest rates are higher in the future wouldn't you also get a higher return? Town Comptroller Hess-In all likely, I still contend that we are going to break even on it no matter what interest rate we pay. Town Councilman Martin-Couldn't you to over come that you have to borrow less couldn't you borrow then more often to compensate for that? That you, apparently you cannot do, if you could not do the three point one million then you are saying a million dollar. Town Comptroller Hess-You could do a million three times or whatever, yea, that is what you would do. With bonding costs, the cost of acquiring debt or issuing debt would come into factor every two or three years but that's the cost of doing business. I think that, that is one of the issues that we have to face. What I think, I am refreshing my memory while we are talking here but Karen Martel's concern about borrowing over a million dollars is that we cannot do it, we cannot make a deal with the financial institution to avoid the arbitrage problem. If you borrow over a million dollars you are obligated to do it on a competitive basis which means that a financial institution that you are doing business with will probably not end up owning the debt it will be by bond holders on their or actually notes and your arbitrage you are not to have any levers to make an arbitrage agreement with the financial institution. At a million dollars you can do that. Town Supervisor Brower-Wouldn't this qualify though for EFC funding through the State? Mayor Regan-It may, but Town Comptroller Hess-It may if we put together we would have to have a supplemental agreement that defines this as a plan and which we need to do anyway I think. To get qualified borrowing you have to have a reason to borrow so you have to have a plan. Rick McCarthy tells me that EFC could consider, it likely would be considered by EFC but EFC would require you to spend the money within like a three-year period. They are not going to lend you money to put in the bank. They do not have a plan that says you can borrow this because you are going to have expenses over the next twenty years. They are financing projects that you have to spend the money for within a specific period of time. Unless they were to make an exception in our case the EFC would not fund this. Town Councilman Brewer-To that point there was language in here about the money had to go into an account so that we had the money if something were to happen. That language is struck in here why is that? Moderator Fosbrook-But, I think Tim, what we are saying is we are going to put that language back in. Mayor Regan-What we need to do is have Karen Martel do her research get back to you get back to me and see if we can put that back in. Town Councilman Martin-Is there any time frame associated with doing that research? Mayor Regan-I urged her to do it ASAP. Town Comptroller Hess-We had a conversation the other day, which satisfied the need to report back at this meeting. If we need to take the next step I think we can sit down and get that work, I think that can be worked out. Mayor Regan-If you have already worked with her on other projects then that is good, then she will understand that. Town Councilman Martin-I am just saying for a purpose of an expectation and in the context of this discussion is that a week, two weeks for her to issue her written opinion or is it an opinion that we are seeking from her a determination or? Town Comptroller Hess-I think that she needs to define the parameters under which an arrangement like this would be tax free, would qualify for tax free debt. She needs to give us a letter saying if you structure it this way it will be tax free debt and if it is tax free debt then we can borrow it. Mayor Regan-I would throw out for your consideration that if we are able to resolve everything else but still do not have an answer there we can put language in a MOU that says. Town Councilman Martin-upon sign offby the Mayor Regan-We will do this pending approval by Counsel otherwise we will just have to fund a deal the old fashion way. Town Supervisor Brower-Will the State Comptroller be involved in any opinion on something like this? Town Comptroller Hess-It should not have to be as long as bond counsel, when you issue a bond it becomes tax-free once your bond counsel gives you an opinion. If you have bond counsel willing to give you an opinion that this qualifies you do not need to go to the comptroller or anybody else. Mayor Regan-So you are suggesting that we might have to seek further opinions? Town Comptroller Hess-No, I think we need the City's bond counsel and I have worked with Karen I have no doubt about any opinions she would issue because we would then run it past our counsel but I feel that any opinion that she issued we could have pretty good confidence in. Town Councilman Martin-Would something like then take a week or two? Any feel for that any indication? Town Comptroller Hess-I do not know her workload. Mayor Regan-I do not honestly know, my expectation was that it was on her short term things of things to do. She is aware of the urgency of it, I will reaffirm that with her. Town Councilman Brewer-Why don't we see by next Wednesday when we meet we can have some kind of a time frame from her. Mayor Regan-Sure and I will be happy Town Councilman Martin-What I was going to suggest if that is not just definable then lets take the language then that you know upon approval and put the reconstruction language back in then and with the proviso of the bond counsel opinion being issued. Mayor Regan-I guess that would be all right. Town Councilman Brewer-I am sure by next week they ought to know whether then can do it in a month or two weeks or Moderator Fosbrook-I think Jim is right for the sake of the initial agreement we seem to be all interested in pursuing this as a right option until something teaches us that we cannot do that and then we will have to come up with another plan. Town Councilman Martin-Sometimes these bond counsel firms are very large firms they are usually out of Manhattan or something like that they are very busy. A short term time frame to them is actually defined as four months. Town Comptroller Hess-Her firm is in Saratoga, so they are reachable and you know I can speak to her history she is responsive, at least she has been in my Town Councilman Martin-I am not making any judgments on her you know competency or willingness to help, but I in the interest of this agreement I would rather have the language addressed with a proviso. Mayor Regan-I think we would be comfortable with putting, and I have not looked at this specifically in the past couple of days, that or something like that. Provided that the following is or the above meets with approval of bond counsel. City Councilman Taylor-So we would go for option one first which is borrowing the whole three point two and then if that were not legal we would go back and borrow a million at a time. Mayor Regan-Actually we have to double check that borrowing a million at a time is legal too, if I understood you correctly. Town Comptroller Hess-We have it is all subject to verification. Mayor Regan-So really I guess we have three options, either borrow the five or the three or just do it the traditional way. Moderator Fosbrook-What I am hearing is that this is the acceptable approach and that we want to follow this until something teaches us that it is not doable and then we will have to develop, well there is a fall back position, I think. Town Councilman Martin-The main point being in terms of this the agreement that there is an approach in tack in addressing the reconstruction fund issue. Moderator Fosbrook- That we have all agreed to. So, the bonding up front the approach that we are going to take we are going to look to bond the entire amount for twenty years if it is doable, and if not we will develop an position and I guess there is. Town Councilman Martin-There are three defined positions that I am hearing the three point one million if possible if found to be legal by the bond counsel if that is determined not to be feasible then the next would be at a million dollar increment if we get the sign off on that if not conventional borrowing. Town Comptroller Hess-Those three scenarios offer a lot of variables in between and hypothetically there will be some hybrid ... of that would accomplish the same goal. Moderator Fosbrook- The next one the next item on the list is the Language for the Annual Audit I think we had difficulty in defining that rate up front. I know that we discussed leaving that to legal counsel for both the City and the Town of Queensbury as well as the Comptrollers for the City and the Town of Queensbury. In other words those four people getting together and writing the language for the agreement. Mayor Regan-That would be fine, I mean, our Attorney and Comptroller both indicated that they have a pretty broad range of language that they could accept. It is not a big deal. I guess it is just a matter of getting you and Bruce and Bob Morris and Bob Hafner in a room and coming to an agreement on it, I do not see that as something that would hold us up or be a big problem. Town Comptroller Hess-Both the City and the Town work under, although they are changing dramatically over the next two or three years we are working under the same accounting and reporting mechanism pretty much. I guess all the Town is really asking for is that the compliant accounting and reporting be made available to the Town. We are not asking for anything that is not included in the Comptrollers new guidelines that are coming out now. Moderator Fosbrook-I think what I am hearing is it is probably left the language developing that and what you are looking for is best left to you and the Attorneys to figure that out and then tell us what you want. Mayor Regan-I do not think any of us quite know what to put in there frankly. Moderator Fosbrook-Any further input on that? Town Councilman Brewer-So, the right to audit we will work out with the Comptrollers? Town Councilman Martin-So, the language for the MOU would be an annual audit acceptable to the Comptroller for the Town and the Comptroller for the City or? Mayor Regan-As well as the two attorneys. Town Councilman Martin-The two respective counsels. Town Supervisor Brower-That audit function is vital to the Town's interest because we have agreed basically to go back and adjust for actual flows and I just think we should be able to verify the information on the results in billing before we, so we can pay the bill and know that we are paying an accurate amount. Town Councilman Brewer-We have to substantiate it to our customers, right. Moderator Fosbrook-We will have to organize a meeting get that language written for the purposes of the current document I think if we just say, that will be provided by the Attorneys and the Comptrollers and that will be offered up before the final document. Is that acceptable? Mayor Regan-Yes. Moderator Fosbrook-I think that covers that basic area of an agreement between the City and the Town relative to wastewater another area as part of this total compact was the County's commitment to additional revenue stream to the City and that would be provided out of the sales tax fund. I know that one time we struggled with putting some language into this document and I think we are still struggling with it so where are we on that one? B. COUNTY GUARANTEED SALES TAX COMMITMENT Mayor Regan-Obviously from the Citys point of view this is a major part of the deal a major part of the consideration for the contract. Our concerns are what happens in the even for whatever reason that sales tax revenue may not be forth coming. We do not anticipate that happening hopefully but we have been trying to brainstorm to figure out ways to protect us in the even that it might not for whatever reason. There have been different scenarios discussed among all of us it has been the City's position that should for some reason that money might not be forth coming at some point in the future that this agreement would have to be renegotiated. The Town has suggested if! understand it properly that if the contract between the City and the County is structured properly and strong enough that, that should not be an issue because the City would have rights underneath, under that contract. One of the problems that we have in analyzing the Towns suggestion in that regard is that we do not have any language ye as to exactly what that contract would be. Our Attorney Scott Reid is working on that with Paul Dusek so I think before and you guys can correct me is I say something wrong here, so I think before we can make a final determination on what language we would be comfortable with on that issue we need at least to see a proposal for that County contact. City Councilman Taylor-And we also have to have some legislation, don't we? Mayor Regan-Yes, the legislation that allows the County to enter into this contract has passed the Senate is pending in the assembly and I was told this afternoon is on track and is expected to be passed when the budget passes so lets hope that is sooner rather than later. Town Councilman Brewer-Doesn't the agreement that we had originally addresses that if the County for whatever reason doesn't pay then the contract is null and void and you struck that out of the contract that we have. Mayor Regan-I don't think I did? Town Councilman Brewer-You did just the opposite of what you wanted to do. This is the one that we sent you that says that and then you took it out, or no this isn't taken out. Mayor Regan-We just added that. Town Councilman Brewer-Well it is there isn't it? Mayor Regan-Well, that is fine, Town Councilman Brewer-That language is already there. Mayor Regan-Yes. Town Councilman Brewer-I am referring to the MOU that the Town submitted August 22, page 9. the Town support for sales tax agreement. Moderator Fosbrook-Would you read that because we may not all have that document. Town Councilman Brewer-Although it will be a separate contact between Warren County and the City the Town will support the sales tax agreement proposed by the County for a period to coincide with the term of the sewer contract between the Town and the City. The Town acknowledges that the execution and definitive agreement is contingent upon the implementation of the sales tax agreement between the City and the County. The Town and the City agree that the sales tax agreement between the City and Warren County pursuant to which the County will annually pay the City an amount equal to two percent of its retailed sales tax revenue constitutes an important and substantial portion of the consideration of the definitive agreement. Therefore in the event that such monies are not paid to the City in any given year all provisions of this contract including any prohibition regarding the future annexation shall be considered null and void except that the annexation of the property known as Veterans Field in the City shll be permanent. Town Supervisor Brower-What date are you reading from Tim? ... Town Councilman Brewer-August 22,2001. That wasn't ours was it? Town Supervisor Brower-No, it was July 17th 01 and that is not in our...that is probably the original one the City gave us way back when that we did not agree to. Town Councilman Stec-I think you have two copies of the City one. Town Councilman Brewer-No, this one is different than this one. Town Councilman Stec-Two versions of theirs Town Supervisor Brower-This one says revised up at the top that is the most recent one we sent the City. I think you have an old one....this is Queensbury's agreement this is the City's. Moderator Fosbrook-I think in the first part of that was what Dennis, correct me if! am wrong, the first paragraph in that was what the Town considered important which was that you would support that concept of sales tax from the County. Town Supervisor Brower-We would support the agreement that the County had yes. Moderator Fosbrook-But I think this, you made me the moderator? The discussion last week hinged on whether it was an integral part of this agreement or a separate agreement that should be negotiated with the County? City Councilman Taylor-If! could say a few words, if we are ten years into this contract though and all of a sudden the cash flow from the County stops this contact, I do not see how it can become null and void because I do not think the DOH is going to allow us to shut the sewage off from the Town of Queensbury. Mayor Regan-Obviously not, however any deal that you would enter into say even the sales tax agreement wasn't part of this and you were entering into a ten year, or twenty year or forty year agreement the time does come to re-negotiate it yea, everything is hooked up and you would have to do it at that time anyway. City Councilman Parquette-I think it just clarifies our position that should those moneys not become available then we need to sit down and re-negotiate with the Town, that is all. Town Councilman Brewer-So, that goes? Mayor Regan-I am comfortable with that language. Town Councilman Brewer-I am sure you wrote it. Town Councilman Stec-All the versions that we are talking about including the original one but we have used the word support. The Town supports, what does that mean to a lawyer? Does that mean that..if it goes away we are on the hook for that share of the money? Town Councilman Brewer-I did not agree to pay that money. Town Councilman Stec-I understand that, my point is that I am concerned about what are we accomplishing by saying we support as a town an agreement between two other parties the City and the County? This is where I start having troubles. What we went though in A of the agreement that is the sewer deal. As of this instant we have a sewer deal. Now we are getting into talking about a deal a contract that was agreed to in January between the County and the same kind of questions were asked, I was in the room at the County center back in January about a contract that exists between two parties that doesn't include Queensbury. We have had discussions amongst ourselves and we have touched on it here tonight that the items that we have already agreed to in the Sewer Contract are all ready above the City's cost for sewer and in fact our Comptroller is telling us they are above our existing contract costs. So, I have a difficulty with the Town getting on the hook on a deal between the County and the City. Mayor Regan-I guess I will go back to where I started by just saying obviously it is an important part of the consideration the deal for us, they are all intertwined and it is a large part of the reason why we have gotten to this point and I think we are willing to take a real hard look at proposed language. I guess I would say before we get into a big argument about language that references the tax agreement lets take a look at what the agreement between the City and the County is exactly going to be, that maybe we could head off a disagreement. We mayor may not until we see that. Moderator Fosbrook-I agree with you, I agree with both you and Dan, I think that the relationship with the sales tax going to the City is a separate but distinct part of this economic compact, which we are promoting to position ourselves to be more competitive and to increase our position in the market place when we are trying to recruit business. So, I think that would be better left to be negotiated with the County and left out of the agreement. I think the statement that the Town will support that concept of the City adding more revenue to the, for the County adding more revenue to the City is a good one but beyond that it is the agreement between Warren County and the City of Glens Falls. Town Councilman Stec-Now, Len if you would allow me to continue my thought. I have got no problem, what the County government wants to do with the City that is their business, that is why they are there. That is their job. But, we have already accomplished that section A of the agenda, covers costs and then some already. Lets not kid ourselves here, thirty six, forty percent of those County dollars are from Queensbury so let's talk in round numbers. Henry has put together detailed spread sheets we got twenty year plan and just for sake of round numbers a million dollars a year. In round numbers adjusted for CPI because sales tax goes up for CPI that is how our economy works you have got starting at three hundred thousand dollars a year flow from the sales tax intercepts to the City. More than a third of which is a subsidize from Queensbury. If you can look at it that way. So, a hundred thousand of that three hundred thousand from the County is essentially already from Queensbury so we are talking abou a million dollars a year from Queensbury and now we are tacking on through the County an additional ten percent above and beyond all of that already and I am comfortable with that, that is the County's business. But, in reality what we are talking about we are already at cost and then some plus ten percent with the County intercept and I got no problem with that but we are getting into letter C and I think we are already coming up against, how can we justify much more beyond cost plus some plus ten percent. That is where I see, I got no problem with the County wanting to, I can understand the argument I understand the rational and that is fine but I do not like it portrayed that somehow the Town has not been generous and again knowing that we are from here we are stepping off into letter C which is I think where we have been having most of our problems. Moderator Fosbrook-I do not think anybody has brought that up tonight that the, whether generosity enters into this I think we are just trying to deal with this on a individual basis each point that we discussed last week Dan, and we are not saying that the Town has been not generous or whatever. I think what we want to do is to look at this as three parts but an entire compact of what we think is important for economic development on a County level. Queensbury is playing a very significant role in that; the County is playing a very significant role in that. But, I think you will agree we will take that language out of this agreement because it does not belong here relative to any sales tax revenue that is going to flow from the County to the City, ok? Town Councilman Stec- I just think an agreement that we are not party to should not effect an agreement that we enter into with the City. Moderator Fosbrook-I think everybody has agreed to take it out of there and I think it is a good point. Mayor Regan-Correct me if I am wrong, I would like to state for the record that it is still is our position that should be part of it however, we are willing to take a look at proposed contractual agreement with the possibility that if the contractual language between the County and the City is sufficient to protect our interests then we may be able to say ok, we do not make it part of this contract. That would be our position at this point in time and rather than get into a big argument let see maybe that will work. If it doesn't we will discuss it next time. Hopefully lets give that a chance. Moderator Fosbrook-Just like we have done in other language in this we are going to pursue that option as the one that we want to accomplish and I think that it will be quite easy for the County and the City to get together and support each other with language that will reassure each other that this is going to happen going forward. Nick? Warren Co. Supv. Nick Caimano-Mr. Chairman Jim is right the word support is not the word, what the real issue is that the Town recognizes that this deal cannot be done or has been done by the allegiance of the County working with the City what needs to be done is change that word to recognize and not support and then the penalty of what happens if we do not get along... Town Councilman Stec-I am more comfortable with the word and Dennis uses the same word I am much more comfortable with recognize then support only because sooner or later some Attorney is going to get into the semantics of what the definition of support is but with that said I am still concerned about saying that our contract somehow becomes null and void if a third party not involved in our agreement does something to undo ours. Moderator Fosbrook-I understand that and we are going to pursue Town Councilman Martin-I think another matter enters into, I think Bud is right, the nature of our agreement is concerned with infrastructure and provision of service that is a hard and fast quantifiable item. I do not see how we can endanger the provision and expectation of that service being supplied. Not only to the existing users but the ability to take advantage of that expanded service. From an economic development consideration you know that reliability, expectation you know is a big part of that. So, there has got to be other language other than this agreement is null and void because that, since we are dealing with a provision of infrastructure and a service the provision of a sales tax benefit is a much different issue. So, I really do not see how the two can be joined. I do not know what language will exist between the County and the City but this is a very important item and because of a failure of another agreement or another party this is a provision you know sewer is fundamental. Mayor Regan-I would make the point though that in a utility agreement between municipalities expire sooner or later and they do have to be re-negotiated. Yes, obviously the pipes are in and there is the expectation that service will continue and there are these inter-municipal agreements all over the place where one municipality will supply another municipality with a particular utility and the assumption is that will continue. But, all of them have a sunset date where they do have to be re-negotiated. So, I guess what I am saying is that re-negotiation time, presumably if everything works here re-negotiations takes place in forty years and that is nothing any of us here have to worry about. But, re-negotiation will take place someday. Even if we had stuck with the old agreement that would have expired in what fifteen years or something like that. Lets just say the one that serves the mall or something would have to be re-negotiated. Now, I do not know, I have not done any research on what happens when wo sides cannot come to an agreement on that if they go to arbitration or if there is something that they put in the contract you know to provide for that if they don't they probably should. I just do not have any research on that, but everything does come to an end sooner or later and does have to be re-negotiated. I do not have a whole lot of information on how they are typically handled or not I do not know that. So, I mean I would not say that would jeopardize the provision of utilities because it happens all the time. Town Councilman Martin-Again, the key difference being is yea, this is an agreement for four years, we can anticipate and everybody will know that ok, we are twenty, thirty or thirty five years into it well this agreement is only good for another five years we have got to, there is a reliability and an expectation because it is infrastructure. So, we just cannot have a case though oops well don't want to do sales tax this year guys sorry and then sixty days later the agreement is not any good, that, this is infrastructure that can't be. Mayor Regan-There is no question though that it is a major part of the consideration of the agreement and I think that everybody knows that, Dan just alluded to the fact that, that was money that would be flowing to the city and obviously was part of the question. I guess two things number one, we maybe I do not want to spend a whole lot of time tonight arguing the point if it may ultimately be not necessary for us to argue the point. Town Councilman Martin-That is a good point, but I would also offer as another option to consider as a maybe then language to the effect that this agreement stays in effect for a period of three years, five years or something like that. Mayor Regan-I think that would be fine. Town Councilman Stec-Or future purchases will be frozen, but I cannot see shutting a valve on certain Mayor Regan-We would not be allowed under State law to shut off the valve. Town Councilman Martin-In the course of maybe several days or weeks or months you know language then should be that again,k we can build in that expectation and reliability of service that ok, from the date of the sales tax failure there will be three, five years to re-negotiate the contract then the customers are the sewer keeps flowing and the service keeps being provided. There is expectation and reliability. Mayor Regan-I think that would be fine. Town Councilman Stec-I could understand a no future capacity could be sold until that seems reasonable but you cannot. Mayor Regan-I think and here again hopefully we will not have to argue about it, but I think if it does come to something like that there is some level of protection that the City would seek. I think it would make absolute sense to make it that it would have to be re-negotiated over a period of a certain number of years. I would have no problem with that. Town Comptroller Hess-Can I make one comment here before you get a conclusion on this. We are dealing with semantics because we deal with the semantics of support vs recognize and there is another semantic issue here and one is this contract is an integral part of or was it offered by the County to facilitate the signing of an agreement and it is my recollection that this came about it was intended to facilitate the agreement between the two not become an integral part of the compensation for sewer. Now, that may be a semantic thing but I think it becomes very integral to what you are trying to negotiate here. It wasn't intended to become an integral part of your compensation it was intended to facilitate the signing and what you did with it was not related to the providing or the payment of sewer. Mayor Regan-I think everyone stated where they stand on it lets I have asked Scott Reid to, fast track that language development of the in conjunction with Paul Dusek to see what can be developed. Town Councilman Martin-Is that matter hinging on the State budget passing essentially with this State legislature approval of this? Mayor Regan-Yes. What was told to me by Betty Little's Office today was that it was on track it was in the right committee no one in the Assembly Democrat side had raised any objections to it that they intended to do all such tax bills at the same time when they did the budget. I do not know what to tell you on that one. Town Councilman Martin-Boy that makes me feel better. Mayor Regan-I think we would have, obviously we could argue for a long time as to whether it was in a incentive to do the deal as part of the deal and all that kind of stuff but I think there is nothing wrong with, you know, putting in the MOU that this is, obviously the contracts are going to have to say subject to the contract between the City and the County is going to have to say subject to the passable of the legislation by the State Assembly. I mean, we are just going to have to wait. I also think in the agreement between us, can reference that. If it happens that the Assembly doesn't pass that and we don't all of a sudden have that forty year deal we would have to do a lot of thinking and talking and brain storming as to what we do next. Lets just hopes that happens. Everything indicates to me that it will. I do not know what else to tell you. Town Councilman Brewer-What you are saying is then we are waiting for the budget to pass to find out if the legislation passes? Mayor Regan-Yes. Well, look lets move ahead on the contract language that has to be done anyway. The base line budget. Town Councilman Brewer-...stop until we get it settled. Moderator Fosbrook-If I could interject here just one minute. I understand where you are coming from, you are looking for the three components of this deal to come together at once and you are looking for some re-assurance that the County commitment will be met and I am sure that it will be. I think Jim is right it cannot be part of the sewer agreement because if the County changes their mind somewhere down the line we cannot shut off service or change service. This is a forty year contract but what we want to do is reach these thresholds at the same time that the sewer contract is signed we would like some type of arrangement satisfactory to the City and the County to also be in place. But, we will not make it necessarily hinge, it is a separate but important agreement relative to the economic compact but it doesn't necessarily, let me see if I can rephrase this. We will tie it only in the sense that we will activate all these things at the same time. Town Councilman Brewer-That delays this thing until the legislation is passed, that could be who knows when. Moderator Fosbrook-I think not, I think the County and the City can work out some type of arrangement or some type of language that will be satisfactory so that this thing can move forward. I think that we are going to put a time frame associated with this once we sign the MOD. Town Councilman Brewer-Yea, but it is ninety days or sixty days and then what happens if it is not pass? Then we wait another ninety days or whatever. Mayor Regan-But we cannot control. Town Councilman Brewer-I understand that that is what we are saying Bob. Moderator Fosbrook-We are not looking at this not to go through Tim, we are looking at this as a time frame that we have to make it happen within. Town Supervisor Brower-Well, you know the City has some concerns and I have some concerns. My concerns are that Queensbury's plans for economic development and infrastructure improvement would be delayed if something does screw up with the budget or the budget process and that is a concern that we have. Part of the reason we would like to go with the City is because it would be the fastest track that we could possibly achieve our goals in, there maybe other options, but we haven't wanted to look at that because we are trying to keep an eye on the big picture. But, at the same time we are concerned about our own needs as well. I think it is important that everyone understand that. Moderator Fosbrook-It may be a mute point and I think we have to pursue the relationship between the City and the County at this point. Town Councilman Martin-I do not understand why for the purposes of moving forward you can't say something to the effect that you know we understand that these sales tax commitment is important to the City and an agreement is underway but you know should that agreement not be worked out or at any point during the life of this sewer contract fail then this sewer agreement stays in place for a period of five years under which time the town parties re-negotiate you know the agreement. At least that way again there is reliability and expectation put in place but we are not relying upon that sales tax agreement. Moderator Fosbrook-I think they are all good points and we have some things to work with and I think we can come back with some acceptable language...that leads me into another thing. I would offer the Warren County EDC to help coordinate this to make sure that these meetings take place that allow these different scenarios to be developed and bring them back and present them to you for your examination. Town Councilman Brewer-I do not have a problem with you being a mediator and sitting here and doing this but I think this deal is very critical to the Town and the City and the County and the region and I think if this is going to happen we have to do it. I do not think we want to rely on somebody else to do it, I think we are taking minutes and I think we are all responsible people I think we should do it. I think the more people we get involved the more complicated it is going to be and I think that is my opinion and no disrespect to anybody involved. Town Councilman Martin-Again, I do not see why that approach doesn't work because that puts in place at a very minimum as to the worst case thing happens the State Budget never passes and the sales tax agreement is never worked out we would have an agreement for five years on sewer. Under that scenario. Town Councilman Brewer-Why couldn't we do that? Town Councilman Martin-But if it does work out then the forty-year term kicks in or the twenty-year term kicks in. Town Supervisor Brower-I think it is important to recognize that the economic development groups in our County the QEDC, Glens Falls LDC, Warren County Regional Economic Development Corp. and the County Economic Development Committee frankly recognized the division between the City and Town over sewer service and it was a pretty big rift. It was obvious to them that if something could not be worked out something couldn't be brought to the table that we probably wouldn't ever achieve an agreement. So, from that perspective I view Warren County Economic Development Corp. as being a facilitator as a positive thing because I think they are not on either side their goal is more one of reaching an agreement between the two parties. We still have to agree to agree. That is my own opinion but I do not know how others feel at the table. City Counsel President Kay Saunders-I agree with you Dennis. Mayor Regan-They have been a good facilitator I think the impact has been very positive I think a lot of things have been already accomplished on a lot of these issues and I think on some of them at this point we may be over analyzing them unnecessarily. We may have the opportunity to get them to get them solved. The budget has to be passed by the end of the year, even the base line budget that was passed expires September 15th so there are certain things that have to be done. Perhaps we can go back to Betty Little and say ok, we understand that you know you are subject to how the majority in your house runs things but is there any possibility of pulling this out of the hopper and putting it on its own the fast track. Maybe we haven't devoted enough time and attention to that. I guess what I am saying is there are a lot of things here that we could before we generate into disagreement that we can try that maybe could solve it. Moderator Fosbrook -I think we have the information out on the table and I think we now need to examine it and find Town Councilman Martin-I do not mean to belabor this but I am not hearing any objection though from anybody what would be wrong with you know language that said ok, the sewer agreement at a minimum would be in effect for a period of five years under the terms that we discussed here in item A. I do not think that just for five years, I do not think that the City has over extended itself fiscally or financially. That would be the worst -case scenario if the State budget passes and the legislation goes and the County agreement is reached between the County and the City then now we have the twenty-year deal. But, at least we have some reliability of infrastructure being provided. Mayor Regan-Here again I think we are reading too much into it, clearly for us whether others in the room would agree or not, we do not have to agree on everything tonight, but, for us obviously it is a major part of the deal and I do, and anyone can correct me if I am wrong and maybe they will correct me when we get back or something. I do not think there is a consensus on our side to move forward with anything without having that county agreement done and ensured. I just would not be willing to do that at this point in time. I do not think the amount of time that it would take to get those things accomplished is simply that much. I do not know. Town Councilman Brewer-Why don't we, or why don't you Bob see if you can get this on the fast track rather than wait and see if the budget passes? Mayor Regan-I am certainly willing to try that. Town Councilman Brewer-Absolutely, there is no sense in waiting and trying to find out, if you are not willing to do this then I just think it is Moderator Fosbrook-I think what we will offer to do here is to arrange some meetings with you and the County so that you can get a level of comfort so that this does not become an issue as it relates to the over all concept of what we are trying to accomplish. Mayor Regan-I would be happy to try to get that through. We can make that request. Town Councilman Brewer-If you are not willing to sign without that guarantee we cannot guarantee it so again I do not know why we have to be part of it. We cannot guarantee it we cannot back it up. I do not want to Mayor Regan-Lets move forward with the, I would suggest that we move forward with developing that language see if the legislation cannot be somehow moved along quicker than it has been. We do not have a whole lot of control over that but we will give it a shot and see what we get rather than let that come between us. Town Councilman Martin-The approach is to move forward on language then that is going to assume that the State budget is passed and that the County/City agreement is reached in a timely manner. Then that language is going to say what? I do not mean to press but I want Mayor Regan-We do not know. Town Councilman Brewer-It is going to say essentially the same thing that if for whatever reason is what I am hearing anyways, the County backs out of this deal then the Contract is caput. Town Councilman Stec- That goes back to what I was saying before Moderator Fosbrook-I think what we are saying is Town Councilman Martin-But I thought a reasonable approach then in that regard is the contact would be caput but not for after five years say. Town Councilman Stec-But I would feel much better the added step as saying we are not talking about throwing the whole contract down just saying we freeze the right to buy future purchases because I think once we have made a commitment to the infrastructure we should keep the infrastructure going. Because it will have been built before any of this wrench got thrown into the works. Moderator Fosbrook-Lets move on. Chairman of the Warren County Board of Supervisor's Bill Thomas-I have a little resentment about Brewer saying that the County would be backing out of the deal, we have no intention of doing that. Town Councilman Brewer-I did not say that you were going to. Warren County Board of Chairman Bill Thomas-The full board unanimous resolution.. was very much in support of, so to say that the County will back out at some time in the future this board has no intention of doing that, we think it is very important to the County, the City and the Town ...we are ready to move forward at any time..Bob needed to talk to Paul Dusek about where we are going, can we get this done between the County and the City it probably shouldn't be part of the Queensbury's issue here. We are talking about giving money to the City from the sales tax I cannot control that the legislature has to when that is done the County will go forward .. the County is not backing out ... Town Councilman Brewer-I think you mis-understood me I did not say that the County was going to back out I said if for whatever reason it doesn't happen the City wants us to be responsible and we cannot be responsible for the County. Unknown-We are not asking you to Town Councilman Brewer-And we are not willing to be. Town Councilman Martin-With that understood and that we are going to make the assumption that the City/County agreement comes to pass and the State legislature does it things to make that possible enacts that legislation which we think is tied to the budget with that understood then the language in this regard, what I am hearing as a suggestion is then this agreement would stay in effect for a period of five years from the point of that you know if something should go amiss, and that the services that were provided up to the point of that failure would stay in place at their originally agreed upon rate of you know service and all that. Is that ? Mayor Regan-No. I would argue that I have no problem with the five year term but I would argue that the entire contract would have to be up for renegotiation just as if it would expire like it was at the end of twenty years of something like that. But, you know if you have five years to do it for example I think that is something that could give that level of comfort in planning to the constituents that you want. City Councilman Taylor-The Mayor proposed a little while ago that we work on the language of what we might come back and offer but to expect that we would be able to nail that down tonight I do not think is reasonable because it just popped up a few minutes ago. I think we have to look at the impact of what a recommendation that you just made what it would mean. What are all the things that it would effect? It seems reasonable to me that we look at it during the week and the next time we meet again we might re- address it. City Councilman Parquette-I agree with Bud. Moderator Fosbrook-Are we in agreement? Town Councilman Martin-A week will not kill us I guess. Moderator Fosbrook-All right. The next set of issues relative to the C. Northway Industrial Park the fist item here is the and I think this was with the adoption of the GElS by the City and that this was co- developed by the City and the Town that traffic mitigation up to two hundred thousand dollars would have to be committed to for annexation of the property by the City of Glens Falls. Mayor Regan-It is my understanding of this whole issue is that as the Industrial Park fills out and significant traffic is generated as a result of that, that the typical situation is that the developer or developers of a parcel like that would be responsible for some traffic mitigation measures. I do not think that we have a problem with that concept, it was my understanding that we didn't really know for sure when that would be required but that would most likely be driven by how much traffic is generated in the park is that correct? Chris Round... Town Councilman Martin-I have not read that environmental impact statement in a long time it is typically how it is done. There is trip generation can be measured with a given type of use. Town Supervisor Brower-But we are not going to own or control the parcel and I think that is why the Town wanted the fees paid in advance, especially if we are going to enable annexation of the property. Because then we lose control of it. You indicated that you couldn't afford to do that and I suggested bonding it in advance similar to the way we are planning on bonding for reconstruction of the plant. I think it is a big issue because you know if you cannot afford to do it maybe you cannot afford the annexation. That is kind of the way I look at it. Moderator Fosbrook-I refer you to the document that we were working from last week and the language that you originally put in here said that an acceptable payment arrangement for such highway costs must be part of a definitive agreement. You were not asking for up front payment I think . Town Supervisor Brower-We were particularly for the connector road, which is going to cost about a million dollars. Moderator Fosbrook-Well, right now we are discussing the mitigation of the first phase of that mitigation which I think takes place with the improvements on Main Street, Corinth Road leading into the City. There is another item here, which is the connector road. Town Supervisor Brower-They are both connected, it is a total impact. Moderator Fosbrook-It is my understanding in development that when traffic creates a failure at a certain intersection or there is a need for a turning lane that at that time those monies have to be available and spent in order to alleviate that problem. I am not sure that this isn't a DOT issue. Town Councilman Brewer-I think the issue was as I remember it, we talked about, and this was going to be part of the whole 18 corridor. We are going to do the 18 corridor and we want to do those improvements so why wait until we have another failure and have to do it all over again. We want to incorporate everything while everything is torn up, I think was what was said. Moderator Fosbrook-I did have a conversation this week with Chris Round and he was and we were even discussing the possibility that DOT was going to fund some of these improvements as part of that reconstruction. I mean the commitment of saying that the two hundred thousand dollars is a commitment that we are going to make and the payment will be triggered as it is needed I think is a reasonable approach to this. Town Councilman Brewer-Let me go look Dennis I think I might have the Seqra in my car. And see what it says about.. Moderator Fosbrook-Jim do you have any input on this who traffic mitigation usually works on these situations? Town Councilman Martin-I am speaking hypothetically and in general terms, usually what a generic environmental impact statement will do is it will site thresholds for mitigation to occur in other words when area reach a certain point noise levels reach a certain point, traffic reaches a certain point something then an action kicks in that was suggested in the environmental impact statement as a means to curb that mitigation. So, say you are at a situation here where you have an intersection right now that with a hundred cars going through it is operating at a level of service D, if fifty more cars are introduced into that intersection as a result of a tenant coming into this park taking it to a hundred and fifty cars in the intersection that would result in achieving a level of service F, then at that point the environmental impact process on a generic form will suggest that ok a new turn lane has to be added or a new signal has to be installed. Once that action occurs then the level of services even in ligh of the increased traffic is brought down to a level of service C or something like that. That is how it works, that is generally what a generic environmental impact statement will do to address an anticipated impacts. Moderator Fosbrook-These are projected needs that may be triggered with the development of the industrial park however, they would not be the type of thing that you put in unless it is needed. Town Councilman Martin-The other thing that I think is being done here is an assumption, which is, especially well proactive or generous move as I understand it is that these are being paid for at the expense of each municipality. Typically when and I understand the interest here, is the interest of making a so called shovel ready site, in that industrial area and you know, minimizing the costs to the developer of those sites to make it more attractive to locate there. But, usually these things are done by and the cost is borne by the individual respective private developer. For example when Wal Mart went up at the top of Miller Hill there were a number of improvements required at that intersection in Route 9 they were paid for at the cost of Wal Mart. Moderator Fosbrook-So, I think maybe what we are looking at here is a guarantee from the City, if the City chooses not to extract addition payments for traffic mitigation to lure a company into the park that they in fact will provide the money for the mitigations. Queensbury is just looking for a guarantee that the money will be there if it is needed. Dan do you have any feeling on that? Town Councilman Stec-No. Moderator Fosbrook-Dennis? Do you have any feeling on that statement? Town Supervisor Brower-I told you what I thought. Moderator Fosbrook-So, what I am seeing here is the City is more than willing to guarantee as the GElS has projected a need that the monies will be available and I am seeing that Queensbury has the position that you would like the money up front and you will decide when to make the improvements. Town Supervisor Brower-We can view it, at least I view it if that is settled up front the connector road the town is pretty much committed to and that is a significant cost, there certainly can be the argument, well, maybe you do not need to do it now but you know if we do it now, if we need to do it now in conjunction with the Exit 18 corridor improvements and quite frankly, I do not view it as we have a choice to wait. We are only asking for a twenty percent participation in that recognizing that the Town is going to have significant benefit too for traffic flow purposes. However, without it certainly that site is going to be much more difficult for truck traffic to get to in a safe manner. Moderator Fosbrook-I understand that. Town Supervisor Brower-It should enable the park to develop at a much faster pace then it would otherwise happen if you did not have a connector road. The Town is going to be impacted with a significant charge as well which is going to benefit both our communities. Warren County Treasurer O'Keefe-1 did not know that you were going to jump into roads but I would like to regress just a little to the sewer. I do not know if you have made an agreement or not, what I am concerned about is that the sewer when it was first constructed and built 1987 it was a regional system, proposed regional system you had Federal and State monies on this regional system it was also the.. of the Empire System. Any argument you have right now is not going to help getting an Empire Zone. My main concern is I have been hearing about this reconstruction project, granted I have been out of the sewer for a number of years but I helped write that first agreement. The reconstruction fund is a dedicated fund and it is not to be spent on anything except major reconstruction, capital costs. A certain amount of the budget in Queensbury and Glens Falls is supposed to go in to the reconstruction fund, it is an escrow fund not to be touched. Evidently, there is no money there now, I really don't know. I have not heard anything about South Glens Falls, South Glens Falls is part of this system and they also contribute to the flow, the cost of the plant plus the reconstruction fund. So, if Queensbury is going to go into the system at two million dollars, two million capacity that is about a million and a half dollars to the City, I do not understand, I know I have not been here, but I do not understand why you have to borrow a million dollars or three million dollars if you build up each and every year thorough budget for the reconstruction fund and pay as you go. Unless there is a major, major fault in that plant that I do not know. It appears to me that if everybody works together and Queensbury pays its proportional amount of O&M as South Glens Falls did under my administration that everybody would come out evenly. But this possibly re-negotiating something after five years, once you have a sewer in you cannot shut it off to anybody you just cannot do it. These people out on Bay Road they desperately eed the sewer right now. I really do not know what the construction is on a time table perhaps you can get an agreement the more money Queensbury will have, the more capacity Queensbury will have the more money that Glens Falls could have. Any delays is going to cost the City and ultimately is going to cost development it is going to cost Queensbury and South Glens Falls. So, my question is the reconstruction fund still the same as it was before or is there something that I do not know or others do not know that you have to put, the figure was a million dollars, three million dollars and five million dollars. Is there something or some reason why you have to have that amount of money? Town Councilman Stec-Do you have the numbers Henry? Mayor Regan-I did not know we were going to get into question and answers with the audience, but I will say this. Warren Co. Treasurer O'Keefe-Well originally they said the audience could..? Moderator Fosbrook-Yes, but I think that is a separate issue. I might recommend that as far as how that fund is structured maybe you and Henry get together and he Warren Co. Treasurer O'Keefe-It an integral part of the sewer agreement I would say. Town Councilman Stec-Henry, how much money is in that escrow account right now? Town Comptroller Hess-I have no idea, we have not seen the accounting. Philosophically I think Queensbury looks at it and we do not know what the accounting is for that fund. We have not been provided with that and have no reason to because our agreement does not call for that level of audit, that present agreement, although hopefully the future agreement will. What our concern is we have looked at a twenty year projection of what the costs are going to be and putting in a proportionate share each, an equal share each year in order to stabilize the sewer rates and the tax rates would not generate enough cash over the short term to cover the cash needs. You are going to have big expenses. We saw the borrowing of that money and put it into a fund as a way to accomplish two things, number one to level or several things, one to level the cash flow each year secondly to sort of make sure that each of us were putting in our share of participation because we are creating an obligation not just a good will gestre that we are going to put it. When you created the obligation we are all going to do that and I guess the third point was to, I lost by train of thought, it was level the payment, make sure the money is there and the third point was to meet the requirements of the EP A. Right now the EP A, the EP A has jurisdiction over making sure that plant is going to be reconstructed according to the schedule. It is our belief that if we fund that in advance or substantially in advance the EP A is going to have a high level of confidence in the fact that the money is going to be there and know that is going to take place and it is going to take away some of the scrutiny that they are now exercising over the plant. Moderator Fosbrook-Back to traffic mitigations. Town Councilman Martin-Tim handed me the relevant section out of the DGIS as he had it and it is much like a described in the hypothetical prior and I will read directly from it. However, various improvements, ok the analysis concluded that no impact would occur and no improvements would be required to accommodate the first hundred thousand square feet of development. Referring to the hundred thousand square feet of development within Veterans Field. Therefore no mitigation measurers are required. That is the first item. The second item goes on to read however, various improvements would be required with subsequent development and development of the first hundred thousand square feet will contribute to the need for such improvements. These improvements require to mitigate potential impacts are as follows; further investigation into modified signal timing both the Main Street and Richardson Street intersection and the Main Street and South Western Avenue intersection will need to be pursued in order to chieve acceptable level of service for all turning movements. Two, the implementation of a traffic signal at Luzerne Road and Veterans Road, Richardson Street will achieve acceptable levels of service for all turn movements at that intersection. Three, the implementation of an all way stop control mechanism at the intersection of Luzerne Road and South Western Avenue can mitigate impacts to the intersection. Four, signalization of the intersections of Main Street and Pine Street and Sherman Avenue and South Western Avenue will be required. Five, the creation of a turning lane to the project from Luzerne Road is required. Six, depending on truck traffic volumes the reconstruction of Pine Street and Veterans Road maybe required at some undefined point in the future. Seven, construction of an alternative truck route or connector road from Main Street to Luzerne Road is the preferred mitigation alternative. Then it goes on to read, the need for and timing of these improvements will be dependent on actual voume of traffic generated from the project as well as from future volumes of background traffic. Construction of the connector road would elevate the necessity of the future reconstruction of Pine Street. In addition to the foregoing major improvements to the Main Street Corridor are proposed in such improvements may affect conclusions of the GElS traffic study. The lead agency finds that it is desirable to create a mechanism for sharing the cost of these improvements directly attributed to the Veterans Field project. Town Councilman Brewer-Now, that is the DEIS that is not the Seqra finding. Town Councilman Martin-This is just out of, it should be noted that these are just out of the draft. Unknown-The QEDC the LDC the Committee that pushed the Veterans Field project the SEQRA is exactly the same it was adopted by the Town it was adopted by the City. Town Councilman Martin-I do not recall any comments that changed these. Unknown-Nothing has changed that, the initial agreement prior to the sewer negotiations was the fact a joint development of the QEDC and the LDC, owners of the property nothing has changed that I am aware of other than what Jim has read and the vast majority of the mitigation if you look at the Main Street Corridor and what, the wonderful things that are planned there had to be done anyway. The Veterans Field is just another small piece of it, it seemed appropriate to participate in it. That is why you have the.. Town Councilman Martin-Let me go on and read this is the next paragraph; the lead agency has identified improvements one through seven in the findings above as those most directly impacted by Veteran Field development. The estimated cost for improvements for one thorough is estimated at two hundred thousand dollars and the estimated share of the improvements for six and seven is two hundred thousand dollars. At full build out the Veterans Field project is anticipated to generate six hundred and forty two trips during the pm peak hour. The lead agency proposes to assess a mitigation fee to off set the costs of traffic improvements most directly related to the Veterans Field project. The fee will be six hundred and twenty three dollars and six cents peak pm hour vehicle trip per hour vehicle trip generated by the project. So, it is going on to suggest a fee be imposed on the developer at six hundred and twenty three dollars per trip generated. Town Councilman Brewer-But the point that was made last week Jim, is we are not going to have any control over that. So, we sat and talked about the flat fee of being two hundred thousand dollars. Town Councilman Martin-Well, the control will lie if the annexation is realized the control over that will be the City Planning Board. Town Councilman Brewer-To apply the fee to the person that is going to develop that. Town Councilman Martin-So, what I would suggest in light of this language here is that a commitment can be made upon by the City to cover the two hundred thousand dollar cost and this was envisioning that, that cost be passed on through then to the developer and the City is reimbursed by the developer at the time the improvements are made although you are committing in this agreement at two hundred thousand dollars that cost would then be passed on. This was envisioning passing on that cost of six hundred and twenty three dollars a trip. Because at this time this was written it was going to be the Queensbury Planning Board that did it. Town Councilman Brewer-The Queensbury Planning Board is out of the loop so how do we get that money so we put it in this agreement. Moderator Fosbrook- They have adopted the GElS the City of Glens Falls..1 think what they are saying is that, what you are asking and what they are committing to is that they will guarantee that they will. Town Councilman Martin-Well, I think all we need to know if the City commits to paying it but what I am suggesting for the benefit of the City representatives here is that there was a payment mechanism so this just isn't coming out of our general fund there was a payment mechanism to be charged to the private developer to re-coop that cost. City Councilman Taylor-I do not think anybody has a problem with that what the problem is, is paying the two hundred thousand up front before we get the first person in the park. What I would propose is that we pay as needed, we pay our share as needed and at the last meeting we also talked about the road and we kicked around the idea of paying fifty thousand a year over a four year period. That too, would also not be needed day one. Town Councilman Brewer-We are going to build that road, we had plans to do that sooner than later. City Councilman Taylor-I understand that. Town Councilman Brewer-So, the road is a separate issue and I feel strongly about getting that paid up front. The Industrial Traffic Mitigations I would be willing to go along with after the first hundred thousand square feet is built or something to that effect then the payments kick in fifty thousand at a time or whatever is needed, I do not know what that number is. I do not have a problem with that but as far as the road goes we are going to pay a million dollars to build a road certainly it is going to benefit the town but it is going to benefit that park also marketability. When the first truck goes on there to start building those buildings they are going to use that road so I think that, that is ultimately has to be paid up front. Mayor Regan-What you are thinking in terms of, when you would start that road, what is your, how well have you thought that out. Town Councilman Brewer-Next year. We are trying land acquisition now. Town Supervisor Brower-During construction there is going to be a lot of chaos on that corridor. Town Councilman Brewer-We are actively working to do that now. City Council President Saunders-But you act like or you sound like you want two hundred thousand a check written for you tomorrow. Town Councilman Brewer-No. When we start that project. City Councilman President Saunders-When are we talking about, when are you going to start the project? Town Councilman Brewer-We will hopefully do land acquisition this year and maybe start construction next year. Mayor Regan-It will depend on among other things on how your land acquisitions go that type of thing, so it may go quickly it may not. Town Councilman Brewer-We are definitely doing it, right, Dennis? We got engineering in the works and those are costs that we have to pay. Moderator Fosbrook-So, I think what you are looking for is a commitment by the City that they will meet this twenty percent negotiated share of this but I think also the language that you have already got in this document an acceptable arrangement for such highway costs will be part of the definitive agreement. We need to pin down the timing of it. I do not think you are asking them to write you a check just when you sign this agreement that you are going to the memorandum of agreement but you are going to want to know that there are certain time frames that is going to trigger payment going forward. Town Councilman Brewer-The traffic mitigation yes, but the road reconstruction once the documents are signed that property is no longer the towns we do not own it anyways but it is not in the town we have to way to re coop that cost other than if we put it in this agreement. Moderator Fosbrook-But, they are going to make, I think what you are asking is Town Councilman Brewer-That will be at the inception of the construction of that road. Moderator Fosbrook-Right but you need to put some timing with that. So, you are not asking for it right now with the signing of the document. City Council President Saunders- I do not think that there is any problem, it is just if he wants the check tomorrow or he wants it in two weeks. Moderator Fosbrook-Is that what I am hearing we need to have some type of a time frame you want the commitment for the dollars and in the definitive agreement there will be time frame that will trigger when those payments are made. Is that agreeable? Town Councilman Brewer-The road the signalization and all that stuff. . fifty thousand Town Supervisor Brower-Fifty a year for four years would work with the two hundred thousand up front for the connector road. Moderator Fosbrook-There are a lot of things that hinge on this acquisition of the property design approval by DOT's certain things so you can write those definitive time frames into the agreement and say once Town Councilman Brewer-Not, when we go to land acquisition and engineering we want the money for the road up front. The signalization and that stuff that can be paid over time because that is not going to be needed right a way. But, when we go to buy these properties and start building that road we got expenses we have got to pay it is going to be a million dollars. Moderator Fosbrook-Ok, so could you outline those and say when we buy property, you may not be able to put a time frame with it but you will put an action with it. This action will trigger payments. Town Councilman Brewer-When the contractor signs. Moderator Fosbrook-I would argue that they are not asking you to pay for two point five million reserved gallons up front. They are not asking you to pay upfront they are saying they are going to reserve that you can trigger payments whenever you feel that you need it. So, I think it is only fair that you give them a time frame and say we will need these payments when this happens. Unknown-I think your Chairman is negotiating for the City. Town Councilman Brewer-I think so too, we clearly said that last week Len when we signed this agreement we want the money for the road and that is my position. Tow Supervisor Brower-I think that is crucial it is my main goal for the Veterans field property right from the get go has been jobs, year a round jobs, light industrial jobs only. We want to bring money in from outside the community to re-circulate in the community and I want year a round jobs with benefits. So, to me that is the key and this connector road is going to help establish that park as a viable industrial park sooner than later because of it approximation to the Northway. It may have some other inherent potential problems but for the most part I think the closeness to 187 is going to be a tremendous asset to this park. Moderator Fosbrook-Being proactive about the traffic is the right thing to do. I am trying to reach some agreement between the two parties as to what. Town Councilman Brewer-You are talking about a four hundred thousand dollar ticket we are willing to take half up front and half in payments if you want to put it that way. Mayor Regan-One of the Councilman ask me to pose the question of if this road goes in and the requirements of the City to come up with various monies in the future for traffic mitigation what if those requirements arise simply as a result of increased traffic on the connector road and two the vicinity of our site but not necessarily generated by activity on our site is there a way to figure that out. I think there must be. Town Councilman Brewer-Say that again? City Councilman John Diamond-I guess the question that I was going to ask is that how does the City currently protect their interest in the mitigations of the two hundred thousand based on traffic flow if the connector road gets put in just becomes a detour a bottle neck of traffic at Exit 18 where that traffic flow is not necessarily intended for Veterans Field but just another way to avenue the City. Town Councilman Brewer-That square footage, you can anticipate that over a hundred and fifty thousand square foot you are going to have a certain amount of traffic and as that construction takes place then you apply the payments because you are going to have to do those mitigations. Mayor Regan-let me ask you this in terms of figuring out these vehicle miles or vehicle trips per day is that figured out when the developer comes in and Town Councilman Martin-Yes. And it is very quantifiable. Mayor Regan-It is one thing if it is developed a warehouse it is another thing if it is Town Councilman Martin-What this sites in the body of this language Supervisor Brower-Well hopefully you will not have any warehouses. Town Councilman Martin-it sites the standard trip generation manual as published by the institute of traffic engineers and that is a big book that based on the type of land use proposed they have calculated out how many trips with a warehouse, an office use, a manufacturing use or other things like drive thm banks whatever. It is a manual that covers virtually every land use and you can calculate that out to the individual trip. City Councilman Taylor-I do not want to get into too much detail but, I am just curious on how that is calculated? You said it was six hundred and forty six dollars a trip is that per year per month or what? Town Councilman Martin-It is using the standard approach for calculating traffic impact is to calculate traffic impact during the peak hour. The peak hour depending on they judge it two times the AM. peak, meaning the morning peak or the afternoon peak and it is just during that hour and what that GElS has done is apparently has said, let me read the number again, there is an anticipated I thought there was an anticipated peak hour traffic of some six hundred and forty two vehicles and the highest peak hour was occurring in the afternoon during the PM peak hour. So at that hourly rate not annually just hourly calculating that back through the over all cost of these improvements if you were to realize all that money back it would have to be six hundred and twenty three dollars per trip. So, it would be ultimately you would be charging six hundred and twenty three times six hundred and forty two would be the lump sum of money you would be getting back in a fee. That is covering the cost of the implementatin here. So, in other words Bud, if you get one use that comes in there and it is one use that is shown to generate fifty vehicles per hour during the PM peak hour then you impose a fee of that use of fifty times six twenty three and they then are paying their proportionate share of the mitigation that has been proposed. If another use comes along at a hundred trips per hour or twenty-five you impose that per trip fee. City Councilman Taylor-How did we get to the number of two hundred thousand dollars then because if you divide that by six hundred and twenty three it says you have three hundred and nine trips an hour to the peak. Town Councilman Martin-I did not write the study you know I am just learning right along here with you somebody must have, they listed these six improvements to be done here one through seven they anticipated a cost and they have taken that cost and I assume divided it by the number of trips well here is your fee that would cover it. Mayor Regan-I kind oflost it but if you followed it that is ok. City Councilman Taylor-It seems like three hundred trips is a tremendous volume. Moderator Fosbrook-So we are looking for some kind. Councilman Tim Brewer-If you figure you have a hundred and fifty employees Bud, you have got one hundred and fifty leaving and one hundred and fifty coming you know. City Councilman Taylor-Twice a day to have that happen. Town Councilman Brewer-If you have four hundred thousand square feet of factory or whatever and they employee three hundred people at one time they are going to have three hundred people coming and going in two shifts presumably. City Councilman Taylor-They are going to assume if you grab it at the peak hour which. Town Councilman Brewer-The peak hour would be employees coming into work and the employees that are there going home that's the trips, I do not know, I am not a traffic engineer,but. Moderator Fosbrook-Let me summarize this Tim, I think what Queensbury is looking for is a guarantee that traffic issues will be mitigated as projected in the GElS those total costs if and it sounds like this is going to be more closer to build out could total up to two hundred thousand dollars and you are looking for a guarantee that those when triggered by standard traffic studies or policies that, that money will be there to satisfy those needs, is that correct? Did you follow me? Town Supervisor Brower-We recognize that there is going to be multiple traffic impacts potentially and we view this as part of, it can be separate, we talked the last time, last week about the possibility of taking that two hundred thousand and paying it over four years at fifty thousand a year. Moderator Fosbrook-Which one are we talking about here Dennis the connector road or the mitigation? Town Supervisor Brower-The connector road we wanted the two hundred thousand right up front as soon as we started working on the road. Town Councilman Martin-From what I gathered out of this what has changed since this document was done was that if you look at the prioritization and the listing of these improvements for traffic number seven and the last one was construction of an alternative truck route or connector road. So, that was a later thing to be done as a reason, as stated in this document. However this is another corresponding document the Main Street Corridor Improvement Plan, that suggested a connector road be built that would elevate the existing situation. That is why the Town I believe as I recall has opted to do that to elevate the traffic in the area. You are taking an improvement that was listed here as a later phase or later on thing and moving it up and that is what we are trying to get around as I see it. City Councilman Parquette-But if I understand as you laid it out the traffic mitigation fees would not come into play until you had build out of a certain number of square feet and it went up to the Planning Board and they determined that a hundred thousand square feet means that you have to pay X amount of dollars in traffic mitigation fees, is that correct? Town Councilman Martin-At the time in which you impose the fee. As to how fast that park builds out is anybody's guess. City Councilman Parequette-So, at that point in time is when Queensbury would be eligible for us to give them the money they need for traffic mitigation, yes. Town Councilman Brewer-After the first hundred thousand square feet whatever the threshold is. City Councilman Parquette-All I am saying is it is not like as Dennis said fifty thousand dollars a year because it is not going to happen that way it is going to be when you get your first threshold of build out at the site then you have traffic mitigation issues that need to be addressed. Town Supervisor Brower-What is the maximum square footage projected for build out on that park, is it 400,000? The way we did it for the Aviation Mall was a dollar a square foot, on their expansion for traffic mitigation efforts just bingo a dollar a square foot and a dollar a square foot in this case would be four hundred thousand dollars. It is ironic how similar it. City Councilman Taylor-I do not going to see the traffic at that level though at the park, like you see at the mall. City Councilman Parquette-Well to Jack's point during the reconstruction of the Main Street Corridor that connector road could invariably become an integral part to detour around bottlenecks. Now at that point what prevents Queensbury from saying well that is traffic mitigation you know we have to mitigate the traffic and Glens Falls you have to pony up. The way that Jim has laid it out it is related to build out. Moderator Fosbrook-Maybe in the simplest case we were to abide by the GElS that has been adopted and we would abide by the findings of the GElS. Town Councilman Martin-But what I see as the point of departure here is the GElS was calling for that connector road to be built the last thing to be done. What we are suggesting is the road be built at maybe as early as next year. Moderator Fosbrook-And you are looking for participation in financing that road. Town Supervisor Brower-We also have another cost that I am concerned about and that is the potential of the relocation of an EMS building and their construction of a new EMS building in conjunction with this. So, that is another cost to Queensbury that really we would not otherwise receive. City Counsel President Saunders-But you are putting it in anyway. City Councilman Parquette-But I guess I don't understand that originally it was going to be a fifty-fifty project anyway so it was going to be shared between Glens Falls and Queensbury so the four hundred thousand dollars then becomes a two hundred thousand dollars proposition if it is a fifty-fifty sharing deal. Moderator Fosbrook-I think you are basically looking for some guarantees, you are choosing to do the connector road first that may elevate other mitigation needs as time goes on. So, maybe the one we should put in the forefront is the connector road and your request for two hundred thousand dollars or twenty percent of the cost. Town Councilman Brewer-Is two hundred thousand dollars up front. Two hundred thousand keep it simple. Town Councilman Stec-Unless you want to say what ever is greater, Bob do you agree with that? Mayor Regan-We were going to say what ever is less. Moderator Fosbrook-Because Tim, I would say that there is a possibility that we could lobby the State and look for money so that it reduces your indebt ness on both parties. That would be something that we would Town Councilman Brewer-We are trying to get an agreement done I mean it is. Moderator Fosbrook-So the terminology could be two hundred thousand dollars or twenty percent which ever is less. Town Councilman Brewer-Is greater. Town Councilman Stec-I like greater. Moderator Fosbrook-You want to be guaranteed of two hundred thousand dollars. Town Councilman Brewer-Pardon me? Moderator Fosbrook-You want to be guaranteed two hundred thousand dollars if it is a million dollar project. Town Councilman Brewer-Two hundred thousand dollars when we sign the contract, right, we want to be guaranteed two hundred thousand when we sign the contract. Moderator Fosbrook-Well I think we can write that in. Mayor Regan-I had thought you were talking about like, once you accepted the bids for the road? That would give us some leeway. Town Supervisor Brower-I think we did say that, that was reasonable. Town Councilman Brewer-That is fine. Town Councilman Stec-They don't have to put up the first twenty percent, ... second twenty percent...that is fine Town Councilman Brewer-So, that is agreeable, when we have the contract for the road two hundred thousand dollar payment from the City. Town Councilman Stec-Upon acceptance of the contract to build the connector road. Unknown-How about on award of the contract. Warren Co. Supervisor Bill Thomas-We started out talking about a sewer deal ..item A takes care of the sewer deal pretty much I think everyone agrees with everything in that Item B. I think can be worked out with the sales tax between the County and the City I do not think you are every going, I should not say that, being a board member, I do not think you are ever going to work out the annexation deal in the time and fashion...this year. I do have a question what does that have to with the sewer deal...1 do not mind you going on and talking about you can talk about anything you want but, but it comes to my mind that maybe you should cut this short and ..the deal that you already got ...we have agreed on A&B and we are done. Town Councilman Brewer-We are not done there is fire protection Town Councilman Stec-No, he is saying hold off on annexation. Bill I am glad that you mentioned that, Dennis if you wouldn't mind Bob you might want to pay attention. The, I agree a hundred percent with what you are saying. I think most of the problems that we have encountered have been around this and I know Bill was there Mike was there I think Nick was there July 9th where we all said, great, we worked it out you know what ever happened however we got here that is neither here nor there but toward the end of that meeting if you recall I said and correct me if I misrepresent this but I mentioned while separate from the sewer contract I hoped that we would push forward and press on with a water contract. I think what I am hearing from Bill would be dove tailed with what I am saying. Why don't we take this out of the mix and re enter that when we talk about water contract and then we will work those two together. Because the sales tax intercept was a sweetener for the City to go into this sewer deal and would say that the annexation could be a sweetener for them to go into the water deal. Weare talking about three things here and really we should be talking about four. I am suggesting that we hammer out two now and then I am not too concerned about the time line for the other two but we can close the books tonight on A & B. I think I am much more comfortable with all that. ..that is my suggestion and I think Bill and I are in agreement. City Council President Saunders-May I make a comment. All right we have done A and we have done B as much as we can do on B at this time I am saying that we have taken care of first two there are only two more things to discuss Town Councilman Stec- Two more things on your list to discuss. Unknown-What else is there? City Council President Saunders-Well now wait a minute, fire protection is your list. Town Councilman Stec-I am talking about two more things on this list, there is no guarantee that Unknown-Are there other things that need to be negotiated with that? Town Councilman Stec-We have got a page and a half of stuff over here it is all related. I have never been very comfortable with annexation. Warren County Supv. ...-If! could I would just like to say second what Mr. Thomas has just said you are getting apples and oranges mixed up. The County deal is for sewer with the City of Glens Falls the kicker is to make it more palatable to everybody. If we are going to sit here and go through fire protection and who puts a road in and who plows it and who cuts the grass you will be here until ten years from now. Why don't you get the sewer deal is done you have gone from A to B get that done and signed then go on to the other problems as they occur. The Exit 18.... Mayor Regan-If! could respond to that, I think that over the last many months we have spent a tremendous amount of time analyzing all of these issues. I think that we have just spent a lot of time even on these first two issues on section C. I do not think it is going to kill us to try to get the last two resolved. After all we have been at this for a long time. I do not think that is going to kill us. You know the original agreement as I understand it or the July agreement or when ever, it did contain these three issues of annexation and the sales tax and you know the particulars of the financials of the O&M and so forth. I think they are all connected I do not see any reason why if the two municipalities are willing to sit here you know we are not requiring anybody to stay here with us and hash out these two things but, I think that they can be done. I do not think that we should, we have gotten this much progress, I do not think that we should throw that away. Town Councilman Stec-I think you are a lot more optimistic on how close we are on agreeing on the terms surrounding annexation. I guess I would suggest it like this, the sales tax agreement with the County was an insurance policy in the eyes of the City that you, that, that was important. Moderator Fosbrook-Let me try to put this in perspective because not speaking as the moderator or chairman, but speaking with my economic development hat on. We commission a plan by Mt. Alburn Associates to take a look at the County and give us some recommendations of what we had to do to put ourselves in a good position so that we could recruit companies increase the value of and the perception of value for people to more here, move their companies here. One of the things we looked at was that the City of Glens Falls was bound by the territory that it existed in and had no way of increasing revenues streams. It sales tax revenue had been decreasing over time. It housed a tremendous amount of not for profits, the hospital being the major one, which could not be taxed. So, we felt for the City to have the funds that it needs to do the improvements that it needed so that when we were recruiting and companies were concerned about quality of life issues, that we could point to a vibrant down town where the Cty could make investments. To that end the County steps up and says we see that initiative we see you are not being paid for or you cannot tax the not for profits so we are going to increase the revenue stream going to the City. The second part of that was we need an infrastructure to the industrial land that exists in Queensbury so that we could offer that shovel ready for development. The third part of this item was the annexation of the industrial park, which was a joint venture to develop, but we felt if that was annexed by the City that would create another long-term revenue stream and make the City more independent and make it have the revenue that it needed for other things. So, it isn't the County sales taxes to sweeten the sewer deal the sewer deal was needed so that we would have infrastructure and I suppose the impetuous of this was our application for the Empire Zone. We had to show that we were in a position to take advantage of the Empire Zone or we knew that it would not be awarded to us. The Empire zone is still out there as a carrot and we are hoping that we will be granted one and I feel pretty confident that we will. But, what we need to do is to complete these other components to our strategic plan to make that Empire Zone useful. Town Councilman Stec-I guess I would like to continue on the thought that was put out from the floor is that the fourth part of this that was talked about was water and we can close the book on A &B today and discuss C&D which is water at a future date and water is certainly integral to economic development. Moderator Fosbrook-The only problem there Dan is, there is a sign up there that says it is build now for New York Site, we have got two inquiries for companies that want to locate there and we are not sure what to do, because who is going to develop that park and who is going to provide infrastructure has not been resolved. If it can be resolved in this go around I would like to see it done. If you want to extract a commitment from the City that says we will appoint a committee to discuss water with the Town of Queensbury I would love to see that done. Town Councilman Stec-I think A &B accomplishes the goals of having a site ready for development. It does not matter if it is in the City or the Town it is in the Town right now and that is not preventing any economic development from occurring there. Moderator Fosbrook-But that is probably going to set fallow until the decision is made on who is going develop it and that is a very valuable piece of land it has access to the Exit 18 those or why the companies that have inquired to the site we like the proximity to Exit 18. We already have an industrial park at the Airport there is land there, no we want to be in that one so the longer we put off resolving this issue you know we are putting off potential customers. That is all I am saying. Town Councilman Stec-Close the books on A&B today and tomorrow we will start on C&D. We are no further along on C. City Councilman Parquette-Dan I do not understand why all of a sudden are you trying to throw wrench in the monkey in the Town Councilman Stec-No, Scott not all of a sudden since January Scott, except you have not been here since January and that is what bothers me. We have got a lot of concerns with this annexation and I have been willing to go along for a long time at every turn it has been something else and something else and something else and we got a deal tonight if you want the deal it is there we close the books the article goes in the paper tomorrow, the Empire Zone comes here next week it is a done deal. I have been hearing a lot of lip service in eight months and I have not seen a whole lot of action. City Council President Saunders-In other words you want it your way or no way, no negotiations. Moderator Fosbrook-We still do not have a solution on how we are going to develop that property and it is our greatest asset right now as far as industrial land. Town Councilman Stec-We had a plan, develop it jointly until we decide to change it. Mayor Regan-But we did decide to change it and I guess certainly it has been my understanding that there were three parts to the deal, there was the sales tax revenue, there was whatever we were going to work out for O&M and there was the annexation. What I am hearing tonight is a very sudden proposal to say no, only annexation if you buy water from us. I would propose that, that is a totally and utterly new concept that has been introduced here. I think that we just spent forty-five minutes analyzing and understanding and coming very close to an agreement on two very critical parts. The connector road and the traffic mitigation was a critical issue under the annexation section of this agreement. All that time in analyzing that we just did is, are we throwing that away? I would suggest that we move forward. I did not come here tonight with the intention of not finishing all three parts of this or segmenting any of them out. Town Councilman Brewer-I will agree with you Bob I did not either I wanted to come here and get an agreement tonight and discuss all issues on the table and maybe we can maybe we can't but. Mayor Regan-Why don't we try. Moderator Fosbrook-Would it be a great idea to take a five-minute break? (All agreed) (BREAK) Moderator Fosbrook-At this point the City will reserve two point five million gallons for the life of the contract for capacity for Queensbury a minimum of two point five. The Tech Park will be billed at the twenty thousand buy in and not and the bill that is outstanding for fourteen will be waived. The O&M costs is factored in will be O&M times 25% and there will not be a CPI multiplier added to it. The buy in will be seventy-five cents and fixed for five years and a CPI multiplier will be added in five-year increments a cumulative CPI multiplier added in five-year increments. Bonding of the reconstruction fund up to the full amount of three point one million dollars will be pursued and if it can be if we find that it is doable from a legal bonding stand point that will be the preferred option of funding the reconstruction fund. The respective town Comptrollers and lawyers will develop language for annual audits. On the sales tax, it will not become part of this agreement other than the City and the Cunty will be looking to develop language so that it runs the full forty years the same as the sewer agreement will, the objective will be to have both of those agreements run the full forty years. Have I got that right up to this point in time? City Councilman Parquette- With the renegotiation clause or not? City Councilman Taylor-I thought it was with a renegotiation clause. Moderator Fosbrook-With a renegotiation clause if necessary. City Councilman Parquette- ..tax intercept were to be ax for some reason with a five-year sunset? Moderator Fosbrook-With a potential renegotiation clause. Did I capture that right up to this point in time? Ok. City Councilman Diamond-I got a question that I would like to ask that have been considering asking and I did not know when the appropriate time was. I have a question I would like to ask and I thought that after intermission it would be an appropriate time. It is relative to the article that broke in the Post Star today about the town board last night appropriating fifteen thousand dollars for feasibility study. It seems like several members of the board and the council would like to hammer out this agreement as soon as possible. My question to the board is how is that feasibility study going to impact our decision that we have made tonight by reviewing the minutes or the notes or the comments in the paper that says it is going to take between five and six weeks to develop a consultant and we all know how consultants move progress along. I am just curious if we can if the board is willing to make a commitment to an agreement without taking a look at that feasibility study and if that feasibility study wold indicate that it would be favorable to build their own filtration plant. So, I guess my question is how is that feasibility study going to impact the decisions that we are going to make tonight and impact any further negations that we have in the future until you get that back? Town Councilman Brewer-To start with we did not appropriate any funds to do anything. Ralph can address it more so than I, we talked about it saying that we should know all of our options. We did not appropriate any money to do anything yet. We said that we had several engineers to pick out of, we did not do that. City Councilman Diamond-My question is it seems like we are pretty adamant about pounding out an agreement which is favorable and I have no problems with that but, is this feasibility study that you have discussed openly now going to have an impact on what we are deciding tonight. Town Supervisor Brower-I think that I can address Jack, the discussions that the Town Board had Monday evening, related to the Town's determination to set a deadline that is self imposed on the Town. In other words, we are not going to set it on you we are going to say October 5th is the dead line by which we have to have a definitive agreement signed by both parties. If by the 5th we do not have an agreement signed the Town on that following Monday will probably, will move forward and will contract for engineering services to evaluate all other operations the Town might have in relation, in regard to sewer services. Probably we will not be in a position to continue negotiation until that study is totally completed at that point in time. So, that could be January or February of next year. So, we are not, we do not feel that we should try to bind you to doing anything but we have felt that, very strongly that October 5th we have got to get on with other businesses, this is important to us right now we wan to concentrate on it. But, we have set a dead line that basically agreeable to the Board to take action should we not be able to meet that time frame. Town Comptroller Hess-Can I add one comment to that, and just as a matter of history because I think the gentlemen asked the question may not be aware of the prior history. The Board took this action back around April and it took this action initially and went out for RFQ Request for Qualifications to do this. Then the negotiations restarted again and it was when negotiations restarted there was a dead line of July 6th or some date this sort of came and went that because negotiations were on going it was let slip. This is not a new action this is just picking up from where from a decision the Board had made some months ago and said it is really time to re-look at that. City Councilman Diamond-But can you make an informed decision without the feasibility study in representing your constituents? Town Comptroller Hess-I think the Board, the way I heard it was if a, because of negotiating in good faith if the decision comes before a consultant they are willing to do that. Moderator Fosbrook-Does that answer you question? City Councilman Diamond-Yes. Moderator Fosbrook- Two points, Darleen has talked to me and she is going to have difficulty getting the complete detailed minutes for next Wednesday's meeting so with your approval we will just try to do a summary of the key points when we reconvene next Wednesday. Those complete minutes will be available as soon as her workload allows her to produce them, if that is all right. I also apologize if I appear to be siding with one side or another. I do have an interest here and that is as the President of the Warren County EDC. We have a desire to move this forward because of the pending Empire Zone so from time to time, excuse me if I appear to take sides and correct me on that and I will try to explain exactly why I am leaning in one direction or another. All right if I could summarize these other two topics relative to the Northway Industrial Park, Queensbury is desirous of making sure that traffic mitigation is paid for to that extent they are asking Glens Falls to commit to up to two hundred thousanddollars to mitigate traffic impacts as those impacts occur due to build out and the timing of the expenditures would be triggered by the standards of traffic, intersections going into failure and so forth. Town Councilman Brewer-I thought we were going to tie it to construction of the buildings, square footage. Moderator Fosbrook-Yes, we are saying the same thing, yes, exactly. The City has committed to do that as far as I know is that right Mayor? Mayor Regan-Yes. Moderator F osbrook -The second part of that is the Town of Queensbury has chosen that to preempt potential mitigation, traffic impacts, that they would like to build a connector road which will service a couple of purpose as a detour maybe for the Main Street construction to keep traffic flowing but also to make the property more marketable. They also asked for a commitment up to two hundred thousand dollars from the City and the trigger of that will be when the contract is let for construct, am I correct on that? And the City has agreed to that. Ok, so we have agreement on those first two points. Ok. The Third point is Fire Protection I know that is kind of a sticking point and I know we have representatives from the Fire Town Councilman Stec-If! may I mean before we took the break, I think what we were really talking about is did we want to continue on discussing annexation? Mayor Regan-Yes Moderator Fosbrook-I do not know that is up to you guys. Town Councilman Stec- Two on this list. Mayor Regan-We will be happy to stay as long as it takes to discuss any other issues that you would like to bring up. Moderator Fosbrook- The reason why I will appear to be one sided on this Dan is we do not have an inventory of industrial sites to offer to perspective clients right now. The Airport Industrial Park is almost built out there may be a lot or two which is presently being negotiated the sale of we have a proposed Industrial Park on County Line Road which we are going to call the Queensbury Industrial Park but that is some ways away from being available for purchase of land. The closest thing we have in the County on Industrial Sites or in the Town and in the City is this Veterans Field Northway Industrial Park so yea, I am kind of pushing that as a special desired to give me some inventory to sell. Town Councilman Stec-I just do not understand the connection between expediency and annexation. If expediency is the issue here then the thing to do is to leave it as is jointly developed as has been set up over a year ago. That mechanism is already in place. Moderator Fosbrook-That is a fall back position, you are right. Town Councilman Stec- That is the current position it is where we are it is not fall back that is where we stand. Mayor Regan-Let me just suggest if we just spent an hour at coming to I think a good agreement on two really very important issues so we are fifty percent of the way through section C here after we have gone through all that I do not see the sense in saying well we are not going to discuss it anymore. I would argue that while we are all here let see if we can't resolve the other issues. We are here. Moderator Fosbrook-I is under your direction do you want to move forward on this? Town Councilman Stec-We have two more to go that you want to talk about tonight that is fine but I have other concerns that I do not think can be resolved tonight. Mayor Regan-Well, why don't we just try? Moderator Fosbrook-Well, lets take these two Dan and then we will take your concerns and maybe we have to come back next week and provide information for those. But we do have representatives from two fire departments here and I think one of the issues was fire coverage for Veterans Field. Should we allow them to address those issues? Mayor Regan-You can jump in anywhere here, how would you want to approach it you had mentioned something earlier in the night of getting those guys together and. Town Councilman Brewer-I talked to our Fire Company last night, they feel very strongly that they should maintain the protection. I have stated in the past and I will until we come to an agreement I believe and I feel strongly about West Glens Falls protecting that not only is it across the street I think our response would be, I do not want to get into the response issue, but I just think the district is there we agreed to it long ago and it is an issue with me. As far as the annexation, I do not want to go backwards I agreed to that but this is key in my mind. If our fire company doesn't protect that property I am very unhappy and I will not agree to an agreement. Mayor Regan-Let me ask you this, the language that was proposed by Queensbury was that the City and the Town should jointly provide a fire service, which I am fine with and our fire department is fine with. Town Councilman Brewer-And ours is too as long as they are primary. Mayor Regan-Well, what I would suggest is getting the two department together and figure out just what their protocols is going to be. At least give them the opportunity to try that. Town Councilman Brewer-Absolutely, we talked about that last week and I talked to John and John is willing to, you and I John and Mr. Cody I do not know his first name. Mayor Regan-Ron. Town Councilman Brewer-Ron, if anybody else wants to be there that is fine with me, I am just telling you the position that they take and I understand the position from the City and I am not trying to break that deal. Mayor Regan-Lets give that a shot lets give it a chance to work. Town Councilman Martin-Just to put it out there I understand that there is a joint arrangement already that has been existing for years on the Hallmark Nursing Home. Is there any chance and I just offer this as a suggesting acknowledging my limited knowledge of this subject matter and the particulars of that agreement and the protocols there in but could that potentially be used as a model for this? Representative of West Glens Falls Fire Company-Ron and I have talked about that earlier but there again we are the primary company for Hallmark. Town Councilman Martin-That much I do understand. Representative of West Glens Falls Fire Company-I understand Ron's concerns and I hope he understands our concerns too, and that is why I think we have to get together and talk. Chief of the Glens Falls Fire Department-Can I make a statement, as Chief of the Glens Falls Fire Department we have worked with many of the surrounding volunteer departments, I have worked with South Glens Falls we respond on mutual aid automatic mutual aid during the day time for the Village of South Glens Falls. We respond to the Glens Falls Cement Company with So. Queensbury, they, if anybody is familiar with the Cement Company the town line runs right though the Cement Company anything oniQueensbury's side of the line they are the primary agency anything that belongs to the City of Glens Falls the City of Glens Falls is the primary agency. Hallmark Nursing Home we respond with West Glens Falls they are, it is their town limits they have the primary. Bay Ridge, on the lower half of Bay Ridge's district and they are because it is in Bay Ridge's district because it is in the Town the Town property they are the primary. My company believes and we believe that this is City property and therefore being Cityproperty it now falls under the jurisdiction of the City of Glens Falls. Mr. Brewer has always said any time in your discussion once this is annexed it no longer becomes a Town of Queensbury it becomes the City of Glens Falls so therefore I would have no problem in fact we would be vary foolish not to automatically respond to West Glens Falls but because it is City property my department believes that they are the primary agency. Mayor Regan-Well I think that points up the need to get these guys sitting down and discussing this. So, lets give them the opportunity to do that. Moderator Fosbrook-I would like to encourage them to meet as soon as possible so that we have some language that we can deal with next Wednesday. We have committed to having meetings on Wednesday going forward until we reach some conclusion on this to expedite this process. Is it possible that between now and next Wednesday you could meet and give us some recommendations? Chief of the Glens Falls Fire Dept. -I can meet any time, I will make myself available at any time. Moderator Fosbrook-Do you need a place to meet I would offer our offices in Down Town Glens Falls. Chief of the Glens Falls Fire Dept. -They have got a new fire station... Moderator Fosbrook- That is a hell of a lot better than our offices down in Glens Falls so. Member of the West Glens Falls Fire Dept. -We can get together ... Moderator Fosbrook-Maybe we can be brought in on that so that we can do some write up for you if ok, so if you would just apprise me of when you are going to meet. Great ok. Gentlemen of the Board does that and Ladies, does that meet with your approval the fire companies are going to meet and develop some language to deal with that. Town Councilman Brewer-We would like to be there if we could. Moderator Fosbrook-Yes, you are invited specifically. They are going to set a time and notify you. Mayor Regan-Tim and I are discussing sometime this Friday I am not sure morning or night works, I do not have my calendar with me does time of day matter on Friday you guys pretty much available all day? Member of the West Glens Falls Fire Dept. -I am not available during the day Town Councilman Brewer-After work. Mayor Regan-So after work is five or three or seven? Member of the West Glens Falls Fire Dept.-after 3:00 Mayor Regan-Why don't we look at ..ok. Town Councilman Brewer-We will figure a time out for Friday. Moderator Fosbrook- The last bulleted item here is Additional land to the annexation as requested by the Town of Queensbury. Mayor Regan-I guess, it had not ever been discussed during negotiations until last Wednesday when we met. Moderator Fosbrook- There is one thing I should add there that I just from my memory, I think it was the reason why that land was going to become obsolete there would be no access after annexation. So, I think the choice was to annex the land, Dennis correct me if I am wrong here, or provide a right of way to the property was that correct? An easement? Town Supervisor Brower-That is correct but I prefer the former not the Moderator Fosbrook-Those are the two options discussed ok. Town Supervisor Brower-I had a map and it showed that it is contagious to the Veterans Field parcel that is proposed to be developed.. Moderator Fosbrook-For the sake of brevity this property is part of the old Queensbury Glens Falls Landfill. I guess that is what raises the question of whether City Councilman Taylor-You tell me you have come to an agreement that we were going to give the easement. City Council President Saunders-That is what I thought too. Moderator Fosbrook-Ok. Town Supervisor Brower-no you guys were happy with that I still wanted City Councilman Taylor-I thought that you had agreed to it. City Council President Saunders-I thought you had too. Moderator Fosbrook-So, they are offering an easement to that piece of property so it will not be land bound. City Council President Saunders-Thank you for your generosity but thank you but no thank you. Moderator Fosbrook-I think the issue is that it is somewhat encumbered given that, that is a Town Councilman Brewer-Why don't you want it? City Council President Saunders-Why don't you want it? Town Councilman Brewer-Because it is surrounded by the City City Council President Saunders-How do you use it right now, or how would you use it right now? Town Councilman Brewer-We don't use it that is the point. Mayor Regan-What I would suggest subject to further discussion with my Council I throw out for consideration the notion that if it passes a clean environmental audit I think philosophically on the face of it I guess we would not have a problem. Town Supervisor Brower-I guarantee you we are not doing an environmental audit. Mayor Regan-Why, is there a problem with it? Moderator Fosbrook-So, then would you accept an easement to the property Dennis or right of way? City Councilman Diamond-I guess my question would be wouldn't the State be responsible to mitigate that anyway? Town Supervisor Brower-That parcel is sitting right there and I do not necessarily want to do anything with it frankly, and I do not imagine you would want to do anything with it. Mayor Regan-Is if passes an environmental audit we will take it the alternative is to give you an easement, I do not think we could very well buy any property or take any property without doing the proper investigation on but. Town Councilman Brewer-Lets get the issues out with it if you have a problem with it then lets get it out on the table and get it over with. I am just saying if we have a problem, members of our board have a problem with that piece of land and do not want it and want to get rid of it lets get it out on the table and say why and get it over with. Town Supervisor Brower-We might want to hold that one until next week. City Council President Saunders-In other words don't tell us why you want to get rid of it. Town Councilman Brewer-I honestly do not know. I could not drive to it. Town Supervisor Brower-It is kind of a hold over issue. Moderator Fosbrook-Does anybody want to meet on that issue between now and next Wednesday? Mayor Regan-I do not know what is going to be accomplished between now and next Wednesday we have gone through eight out of nine or so issues, this is the last one, we discussed it in some detail last time and agreed to discuss it again this time. Now we are proposing to wait and discuss it yet next time. Moderator Fosbrook-Dennis will you accept an easement to, right of way easement, whatever to that property so it will not be land bound? Town Supervisor Brower-I want to think more about that. City Councilman Pauquette-Is this going to become a deal breaker at the last minute Dennis or what? Town Supervisor Brower-I do not know that I would say that we will have to wait and see what is going on. Mayor Regan-Well, there was talk earlier about the need to get the deal done and that we wanted to move along quickly and get all these sites up and running and so forth so we have an outstanding issue that we have talked for two straight meetings about you know and I do not see why we cannot resolve this tonight. Moderator Fosbrook-Can we resolve it? Dan do you have any input on this? Town Councilman Stec-On this particular parcel, no. City Councilman Pauquette-What are you feelings Dan? Town Councilman Stec-On this particular parcel? City Councilman Pauquette- Yes. It does not matter either way? Town Councilman Stec-It does not matter to me either way. Moderator Fosbrook-Mr. Turner do you have anything to add? Town Councilman Turner-Not really. It would be better if the City had it, it fits in with their plan better but I can understand where they are coming from. Town Councilman Brewer-How big is the parcel Dennis? Town Councilman Martin-I really do not feel qualified to speak to it, I do not know enough about the parcel to say one way or the other, I guess I feel like Dan does, I do not have a feeling one way or the other on it. Moderator Fosbrook-Dennis Town Supervisor Brower-Well actually the gentleman that brought it to my attention as a concern isn't even in the room tonight, but I did not even know that we owned that particular piece of property to be honest with you until the map discussion came up....1 think it is part of the dump. Moderator Fosbrook-Yea, if you will be honest you will find that, I looked up some information on it Town Councilman Martin-Has it got buried materials on it? Moderator Fosbrook -Yes Unknown-..nobody in their right mind would let the City own it in any way shape or form, the best option you have is an easement that gives everyone the freedom to go in and out of that property.... Moderator Fosbrook-Can we put this issue to bed? Will you accept an easement on the property? Town Supervisor Brower-Yea. Moderator Fosbrook- To summarize the last four or the last two the two respective fire departments that will meet to develop language on how they will deal with the annexed piece of property and Queensbury is going to accept an easement on to the piece of property in question and that Dan is all the items that I have on this list relative to annexation. Would you, is there something that you would like to add? Town Councilman Stec-Well, on the fire protection issue since you asked Len, correct me if my recollection is wrong, but when you met with us in the conference room the first week in January this is one of two items that specifically came out around the end. I do not want anyone else that has just recently getting brought up to speed on the history of this to trivialize this or to say that this is some sort of eleventh hour issue. Our board was very clear with you and John Michaels that this was an issue that we fully intended it to be in the, remain in the Queensbury fire district nothing changed. What ever the build out was that, we charge our fire and ems rate and the Town would cover fire and ems there. We had our reasons for it you went, the City came back and reported to us that we had a deal. We have had other conversations in early January with other parties sense then we had a deal. We have back tracked on that in July and we are continuing to back track and back peddle on that now so I do not wat anyone to go out of here saying what are those yo-yo's in Queensbury hung up on you know who covers fire. Because if we are going to talk about a deal was a deal there were two things that was discussed in January. This was one and the other one is what I do not think enough has been discussed tonight about and I am not saying you have to have a resolution or an answer or agreement on this tonight but certainly food for thought for the next time is that I think there is some. We were concerned about quality oflife issues, that I think the words that I used was that if it was annexed there was always explained to me by Dennis, that he was very up front from the get go, in the other meeting he had, when asked the question what do you want out of this parcel for the Town and Dennis like I think the rest of the Queensbury Board would say we want jobs. We want the value of good employment a good healthy industrial base. The Mayor asked the question and correct me if I am wrong, Dennis always characterized i he was after the revenue. I can do the math and understand that sharing eighteen cents a thousand is not exciting to the City. I certainly can understand the math that ten dollars a thousand especially if you keep all of it is very attractive to the City. I do not begrudge them that at all, it is their property I can understand that. If there is a way for us to just say you know what we are going to create a special taxing district we are going to charge your rate on that you can have the money god bless you, you can have it. My concerns are not about denying the City collecting what they can for their property. They want to undergo the risk and develop it that's fine, that is their prerogative. My concerns that night were, that it has got to look, smell, taste, feel just like Queensbury. I do not want to change the character of the neighborhood, because what we got now if we do this, is instead of three sides on a box we have got this little jigsaw piece out there that we have got to, it is not contgious. I have some philosophical issues about doing this and we have tried to address some of those. We have got this island now of industrial land surrounded by Queensbury. Now who knows what that neighborhood is going to look like in five, ten years from now but the last thing I want is for people to say those yo-yo's in 2001 on the Queensbury Town Board did not have the foresight to think that you know what this is going to turn into. This is going to turn into a cash generator for a municipality that is not accountable to the residents that surround the cash cow. We have issues in this parcel the people in that neighborhood will have no recourse other than please from the City. Will they be able to vote on the Common Council Member, no they are on the hook. They have got all the risk but they have no recourse if there is an issue. So, we push for adopting an identical seqra that is why. We never had a problem with meeting the Mayor's goal the revenue, god bless you take it, but my concerns about anexation have been that you want the revenue there is XYZ that you have to give us some guarantees. We are not asking for anything in exchange for giving away that revenue we want to protect everything that is left besides the revenue. So, my concerns are the domino effect how lock stock is that? What kind of protections are we going to have. How binding is this going to be? Are we going to have any shell games five or ten years down the road? Well, you know we want to annex something else? The Board this is old news for the Queensbury folks in here they have all heard me on this but I think the Common Council needs to know where I am coming from on these issues. So, I was concerned about no annexations in the future I do not want to set a precedent I wanted to go further and say I do not want to be asked. I do not want to be asked, tricked, litigated, lead into, beg to, harassed about annexation in the future. I want guarantees that this is going to be light industry only. Yes, we have a seqra agreenmt what is to say five years from now the City doesn't say you know, we cannot develop this, it is just not working out for us we are going to do a new project we are going to rezone it and do a new seqra what are the protections there that we know that what we are getting into. Because once we annex this we are out of it we got no say so any more, except for going to court. Even then well, that is a crap shoot, you do not know what is going to happen in court. So, as binding as possible City take the revenue, take the tax stream, I can understand the math god, bless you, Queensbury has got all that money the City doesn't have the money you should give us something amen you have got it. But I do not want the issues that are going to go with annexation come back to haunt this Board or the residents of that part of town. We will lose control once we get, I am not a control freak but again we have no recourse there is no accountability to say I am going to take out my frustrations in the ballot box, because heir issues are with the city only we are going to tell the hey, that is part of the City and we have issues there. I just have issues about those kinds of things the fire district, I think annexation is high risk to Queensbury and no return. To paraphrase what some of our department heads put together because I listen to our department heads, that and I have said it before, that we have got in item A cost and then some, in item B an additional ten percent because we are talking about a million dollars a year as item A, three hundred thousand plus in sewer in sales tax from the County thirty six or forty percent of which is from Queensbury so that is another third of that three hundred thousand dollar sales tax, that is another hundred grand so that is ten percent on top of the million. So, we are cost plus some plus ten percent. We still have not reached my breaking point. But I get very nervous when on top of that hey we want ten dollars a thousand because we do not want to share eighteen cents a thouand that you can collect and on top of that I am going to hassle you about giving you the protections and the guarantees that you sought for in January. And then when we mentioned them say that we are reneging say that well we are changing the deal have people go on the radio saying we are going to take the high ground here. Unknown-Here is the deal the deal is here in front of you that is past history. Town Councilman Stec-No, that is annexation Bob, that is the risk that I see with annexation. City Councilman Taylor-Dan could I ask you are question? Why are you so concerned about the residents around this piece of property, why are they any different than the Queensbury residents that live on the border of Glens Falls? Why couldn't that happen to them? Town Councilman Stec-We inherited a history there is borders I accept that but like I said now we are creating a special case today and we know what is going to happen there. This isn't oh it might be residential, this is as stated by the Mayor. Moderator Fosbrook-Dan I do not mean to cut you offbut I think I recognize exactly where you are going, Mike O'Connor has asked. Town Councilman Stec-I think I have been consistent with that I mean. Moderator Fosbrook-I will agree with you the fire issue is nothing new, that was something that we made a commitment that we would try to work out. These protections that you are requesting are nothing new, and I think that they are in the document. Mike O'Connor would like to speak so I would like to recognize him. Attorney Mike O'Connor-1 am just a little confused here, the fire protection you all seem to agree to have the two companies meet and iron it out, now you are Town Councilman Stec- W ell we just got there tonight. Attorney O'Connor-right, ... Town Councilman Stec-Mike I wanted everyone in this room to have one hundred percent unedited what was said in January. Attorney O'Connor-The biggest question... what part of the, and I will say this in general to everybody I think you ought to be working on the final agreement I disagree with using the interim document I can see the same problem of interpretation of language after you sign this agreement. I do not know why you are taking an interim step. ..agreement and not have to go back to the table and go over every ... if somebody walks away with a different understanding of part of the agreement, what part of the language don't you like, you offered and everyone seems to be in agreement with on as to ... Town Councilman Stec-I am with you that we have not seen the devil is in the details you are right this MOU is a stepping-stone to get to this larger agreement I have not seen the language yet. But, I am telling you that I can see us having problems with the language. Attorney O'Connor-Isn't the purpose of this meeting to resolve.. Town Councilman Stec- That is why I brought it up. Attorney O'Connor-What is your suggestion? Town Councilman Stec-I do not have, I have a concern right now it is ten o'clock I do not have a suggestion a solution. Attorney O'Connor-What is your ..zoning issue? Town Councilman Martin-I have a suggestion in that regard, the GElS set forth and is a part now of the draft new the new Queensbury draft zoning ordinance for a essentially a brand new for lack of a better term tailor made district for this part of the town and that was done at the time it was thought that this was going to stay as part of the town. There is no reason why Glens Falls is going through the exact same exercise right now in the form of adoption of a new zoning code. Mayor Regan-We are done. Town Councilman Martin-After thirteen short years, but any how, why cannot that same exact district be listed out of the GElS as it was for the Queensbury draft zoning ordinance and inserted into the City Zoning Ordinance and become part of your Zoning for this project and that incorporates the design guidelines, use schedules, set back requirements, bulk and height requirements and that will be a form of protection. Does it address the future outcome five years from now with rezoning but, correspondingly any legislature whether it be town or city can rezone in the future. We the future Town Board may take that action or would have taken that action who can say. Town Councilman Stec-Except the accountability. City Councilman Pauquette-Are you talking about the model site plan approved by the Town of Queensbury Planning Board in the SEQRA findings adopted by the Town? Town Councilman Martin-Beyond that there are specific zoning district with a language it has got a name, everything it has set back requirements, use requirements and all of that, landscaping requirements, height requirements, building set. City Councilman Pauquette- The Town's Veterans Field Light Industrial Park district designation, copy attached says on page twelve of the memorandum of understanding. Town Councilman Martin-If that was put into the City's zoning code and this section of the City Zoning Map bears that designation and becomes that district that is exactly the same thing that the town would have done. Does it address a future outcome, obviously it does not. But, at least it adds another layer of protection, even and beyond a use schedule but in terms of the quality of the development as well with the landscaping and you know things of that nature. So, those would be things that hopefully appease the neighboring property owners as they would have had to do with the zoning district had it been part of the town's zoning code. City Council President Saunders-I have a question, are you assuming that our Town Board does not have any rules or regulations to go by? Town Councilman Martin-No, I am not assuming that at all. City Council President Saunders-They have to have trees and they have to have so much and set backs. Town Councilman Martin-No, no I am not assuming that at all, what I amjust saying is so it is an exact duplication you know of the district as originally envisioned in the EIS that both communities vote. I am not making any judgments about quality of review or anything like that I am just saying to be responsive to the concern this would at least in the short term address that concern. Attorney O'Connor-1 think that is what we are looking for, and what we are doing tonight is to make these suggestions give them a copy I do not think that anybody is inferring..they have worked through this process Town Councilman Martin-We both did, that was a jointly prepared GElS. Attorney O'Connor-But you have also worked through, take this another step further I think with the actual rules and regulations.. Town Councilman Martin-They are done. Attorney O'Connor-They are probably no different than ..whatever they incorporate but don't keep saying that you have got issues and concerns without making a suggestion to get to a conclusion, lets get to the conclusion. That is the only input that I have had throughout this process what ever the conclusion might be, lets do that I think it is a good suggestion Jim.get a copy to everybody and next week say yes..this will be the regulation. Town Councilman Stec-We have talked about that over the past several months Mike and I guess what I am saying is that I am not convinced that, that is enough. That is my concern; I think the resolution for me would be you don't annex it. Attorney O'Connor-Ok. Dan. across the street you can change the regulations of the town can you change the rules and regulations on that at least three times since 1980. I do not have any guarantees, why would this piece of property be any different than that piece of property? Town Councilman Stec- This is an island of the City, there is no incentive, there is no accountability, if a future City Administration goes in there and starts tinkering around with this to maximize cash flow. Attorney O'Connor-You have got all these ..regulations and everything else do you think they are......the amount of infrastructure.. if they do not get people in there building in the next five or ten years that is going to be vacant for a long time... Unknown-The SEQRA findings which were initially the towns were adopted verbatim by the City, the Board which actually is the Capital Improvement Committee which who approves who goes in there and what it looks like the Town Supervisor is a member of that the Mayor is a member of that two people from the QEDC are members of that and that is in the SEQRA findings. So, we continued with that joint cooperative effort even though this whole thing of annexation through a monkey wrench here even though the QEDC doesn't have any financial commitment to it but you sit on that committee and that committee and I do know if this has been concluded yet. Town Supervisor Brower-They tried, they changed that effectively last meeting there was an attempt to change it, yes. Mayor Regan-That was and the Common Council had a lot of questions of I guess first and foremost going back up. Our goals are absolutely the same because if you are going to maximize revenue you want the highest assessed value. That is the only way we are going to get money out of that, because we have already agreed that it is not going to be retail operations so the next best thing is a valuable building. So, I think the motivations on the two sides are the same. When it was presented to us by Queensbury that this group the committee would be the group that would determine whether or not a particular proposal complied with the SEQRA, GElS and all that their concern was you know, two things. Number one what legal standing did that have and what procedure was there to appoint people to that. Number two, we want to make sure that we didn't set up a situation had to go before like three boards or two board. Personally, I could go for any arrangement, I have no and I am speaking on my own here I think theproper arrangement could be done to the satisfaction of both communities. Now, we have not had any further discussion about this sense because we thought it was resolved, but if that is that important to you I do not think it is a deal breaker on our side as to who is on that committee. They can step in and shut me up if they think I am doing the wrong thing. If you would rather go back to that original proposal I think we could live with that. Town Supervisor Brower-I like that original proposal. The Community Development Director was there you know I sat on that board it gives you, it gives me a greater feeling of confidence. We were willing to do it that way when we were going to jointly develop it so I do not know why we would change it necessarily. Town Councilman Stec-A permanent shared development of that so that there is a mutual equal control addressing the issues the idea and I am not an Attorney, Bob, the idea of deed restrictions had been kicked around. What I am looking for is to the maximum extent legally practical putting in protections necessary to accomplish what I mentioned in January. Because we have not seen that final agreement I am not convinced that we have that yet. I just want everyone to know because this is the first time most of the people on the Glens Falls side have heard this in this detail that I do not want that last deal breaker to come up when we go from the MOU to the, and how we go, how the MOU that is for our collective attorneys to. That is the mechanism that they put in place to get us to this final agreement. When we get to this final drop dead this is it agreement these are the guarantees that I am looking for. City Councilman Pauquette-So, is that going to cover most of what your concerns? Town Councilman Stec-No, we still have the issue of fire protection, this is where I am coming from. City Councilman Pauquette- That is workable this is workable what else do you have that you are concerned about. Town Supervisor Brower-I just want to express one concern that I just want to make sure everyone is clear on. The whole idea on this property was to develop light industrial businesses. One of the things that I would not want to see happen here is industrial warehouses. Industrial warehouses will employ very few people and Town Councilman Martin-Well, lets put that in the zoning district as a specifically not allowed use. Town Supervisor Brower-I think everyone understood that, but I think it should be verbalized because here could be an effort to simply make progress with this property and I would view that as negative progress is that is what occurred on that site. City Councilman Pauquette- What we need to get then Dennis is the definition from you guys or in this district designation it says light industrial manufacturing consistent with the allowed uses as identified in the town Veterans Field Light Industrial Park District designation. Mayor Regan-We took your language as you proposed it and Town Supervisor Brower-It is a concern because I have seen the pressures that you know businesses when they come to you with a project it puts pressure on you, you have got to say yes or no there is always pressure to see success and I am talking to Len as President of WREDC as much as anybody else. But you may feel a lot of pressure to be able to say yes to somebody so you are so close to the Northway, it is going to be a very, I am sure that you are going to be presented with proposals is you haven't been already. Moderator Fosbrook-I agree that doesn't mean jobs, warehouses to mean does not mean jobs. Town Councilman Brewer-But on the same hand if a manufacturer comes in there you have to allow them a certain amount of warehousing space. Town Councilman Martin-As long as that is accessory to the primary. Town Councilman Brewer-You have to allow a certain amount of it you just cannot say no warehouses. Moderator Fosbrook-I do want to go back to the agreement that allowed the Greater Glens Falls LDC, the Queensbury Economic Development Corp. to jointly, how is it worded here, form a joint committee to improve no that is not it, I am looking for the things, that says there is a joint committee of Glens Falls and Queensbury players that will make sure the SEQRA are adhered to... Town Councilman Martin-And we are going to incorporate the Veterans Field Industrial Zoning designation into the Glens Falls Zoning Ordinance. Town Councilman Stec-I would feel better if there was language in there again I am not an Attorney, to protect the status of parcel in perpetuity in forty years whatever the legal number is, if someday if someone wants to rezone this or deviate from the SEQRA or whatever that mechanism is that as far as I am concerned a joint a resolution agreed to by both the Town Board and the Common Councilor I feel a lot better knowing that ten years from now when none of us are sitting here that the City couldn't uniformly or unilaterally say we are going to change the direction of this industrial park, from industrial to Great Escape Two. Those are the kinds of concerns that I have that I haven't been hearing answers to so far. Moderator Fosbrook-I think there is some of that language in the working document that maybe you have not seen it we will get you one. It is a work in progress. I think that we can address, language could be addressed and I think that they are all good suggestions. I think Glens Falls is agreeing to put those into the documents and that is what I hear. Ok. To my way of looking at this, there is very little that has to be done other than we have to bring forth information on the reconstruction fund the legality of it, provide that it is legal so we can move forward with that. We will need language from the Fire Departments on how they are going to approach the fire coverage of Veterans Field, what am I missing here, language on audit has to be entered into, that is basically it. What we are going to have to do for our next meeting is just try to get this together, maybe it is too short a period of time but I think we can get it together at least in a document that we can agree on because if it is just Igal issues they will or will not be resolved one way or the other and we can move forward. Mayor Regan-There is a possibility of signing an agreement that says leaves the option open in terms of the bonding for the reconstruction fund depending on what is determined to be legal. That way that would not hold us up. Town Councilman Martin-I thought that is what we said, we are going leave those three options right in the MOU so we are not, we do not focus on one until we get that answer from bond council. Town Comptroller Hess-I would really like to pursue that pretty quickly and with Mayor Regan's permission I would like to really meet with, and get that done next week. Mayor Regan-Maybe even if you call her tomorrow and see if you can set up a meeting with her quickly. Moderator Fosbrook-Maybe we need some kind of guidelines to operate and we have agreed to meet on Wednesday night at seven o'clock. Should they continue to be open public sessions or work sessions? Town Councilman Martin-I think that they should be open and this room may not be available next .. Moderator Fosbrook-Is it possible to meet in the City in City Hall? Town Councilman Martin-Common Council, we might have to go to City Hall if that is available. Moderator Fosbrook-Next Wednesday night we will be at City Hall. And you will take care of notification as far as the public meeting goes. Who is going to write and develop the documents going forward? I know that some of it has been done by the Town's Lawyer and some of it has been done by the City's lawyer. Develop the writing in the documents moving forward. Mayor Regan-Going through these things I would be willing to take a shot, Queensbury has done the last two I would be willing to do this one and bring it back next week. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-1 have just, I really don't want to tie this up any longer but in the two page thing that I handed out to you there is about a half a dozen relatively minor items of changes that you brought up that either we need to discuss tonight to next week. Mayor Regan-I bet you we could do it really quickly. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-1 would think so. Town Councilman Martin- I would rather stay on it. Moderator Fosbrook-Ralph go ahead why don't you. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-1 have, I am referring to the revised memorandum dated August 22nd that was passed out last week. The first item on page two of the August 22nd there was, we are talking here about the town is creating in the process of creating a new sewer district for South Queensbury and the City inserted the concept that the creation that agreement that creates that district is subject to review by the City and I was curious why or what your though processes as to why you wanted to change that. Mayor Regan-Maybe nothing at all, we looked at that didn't know anything about it and just that, the part that generated that proposal by us was that you put that we are, this is hereby approved by the City, I thought well, ok, that is probably ok, but what exactly are we approving. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-You had already, maybe I am wrong but I thought months ago that, that, there was an inter municipal agreement arranged between Warren County, Washington County, Kingsbury, Queensbury and since we were going to the City we talked to the City about reserving some capacity for the existing customers there and that sort of thing. I was kind of under the impression that you had reviewed the whole thing at that point. If that is an error we can certainly get you a copy of it. Town Supervisor Brower-Well, I will read the language that we had in our version of the MOD. The town provisions of sewer service to Washington County Sewer District NO.1 the Kingsbury Sewer District and Warren County Sewer District NO.1 as will be provided in an inter municipal agreement being negotiated currently is hereby approved by the City. The Town shall have the right to provide sewer service to all properties located within the Town. It was pretty simple. Mayor Regan-We have not seen it. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-You have not seen it, ok, fine. Mayor Regan-I guess provide those and we will have our water and sewer attorney look at them I am sure that they are fine. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-The next item is on page four and the top paragraph, I know that we had talked about this and I think you were going to think about this and get back to us, but there was a provision there that allowed us to buy the capacity for everything that was listed on page three, these are current users they are not new users we just want to neaten up that as part of the MOU and did you agree at that point that yes we could do that? Mayor Regan-Was this, I am sorry I was trying to read this at the same time you were talking, could you say that again. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-Page three is the listing of current users within the, they are currently sending sewage to the City of Glens Falls. We have yet to modify contacts to enable that, we have received money for that we would like to neaten up our books before we go any farther if possible. There is a sentence that says in the original one that you deleted that this provisions has become effective immediately upon signing the MOU which means refers to the earlier language but that is the ability to buy this capacity based on the MOD. City Councilman Pauquette-Ralph but it also says before that sentence unrestricted future buy in of capacity. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-Right and you deleted that and I understand that. Ok. City Councilman Pauquette-So, the last sentence refers to a list of water and sewer districts on that page three then. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-That is correct, so I understand that we are deleting the first two and a half lines ok, my question is, is that last line that will stay? Mayor Regan-Yea. That is fine. -So you would be able to do that upon signing the MOD. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-Correct. I know that we agreed to this last week but I just want to repeat it now. On page nine, your attorney had inserted a bunch of old language from the old contract when we had the wet, dry thing and we are just going to go with the combined flow. Town Councilman Brewer-I think that is what we said isn't that right Ralph total flow? Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-Yes, it was just the combined total flow but I just want to make sure that we are all clear and do not have a disagreement later on. Town Supervisor Brower-And that is also what we were going to adjust at the end of each year, is that correct? Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-We would pay based on estimated amount and at the end of the year we reconcile the books similar to what you do in South Glens Falls now. Page fourteen there was some wordsmithing done on items F&G that my guess that your attorney did and I think that, between now and next Wednesday we should have our Attorney look at those and tell us the legal impact of those changes. Item 15 there was a discussion on customers that chose not to pay their water and sewer bill and the practicality or legality of relaying unpaid bills to county that sort of thing and I think we need to pursue that to find out A is it legal or what the steps are. I got the impression that the City was willing to do whatever was possible if it was legal. Mayor Regan-Yes. Ok. Do you have any more information since we talked? Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-To be honest I have done absolutely nothing. What I would suggest I will take to Helen Otte about the mechanism of relaying, get together with Henry on that as well from our end I will see what I can do. You might check with your Comptroller if you would and ask him if he could research that or whatever input he might be able to give us. Attorney O'Connor-Washington County does that now... Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-Washington County does that Attoney O'Connor-They relay unpaid sewer bills to the County bills. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen- We do it in Warren County with Queensbury where if you do not pay your water bill by or sewer bill by the end of the year it gets relayed to your county taxes, the city does not do it within their corporate boundaries. The City does it from left hand to right hand they do not involve the county. City Councilman Pauquette-We passed a resolution, that goes up to the County. We did that. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-Oh, it does, years a go I was told that it may require some legislation by the City to allow that. City Councilman Pauquette-We did do that. Mayor Regan-A while ago we did not even relay it into our own and I think that is yea we did it into our own tax collection system. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-Under the discussions that have taken place so far sewer and water service will be provided to this area by the Town of Queensbury and my concern is that if these residents of Glens Falls do not pay their water bill that we have a mechanism to collect that short of knocking on this industries door shutting them down. None of us want to go through that route. One final thing ok, so we will both check on that and we will both, you and I will check on that and be prepared to speak intelligently on it next Wednesday. The final thing on page eighteen you had changed that we were given sixty days to go from memorandum of understanding to sign document, you changed to ninety, this process has dragged on for the better part of a year at this point. From our stand, if you have a really, really good reason to go to ninety then I would be real, I would certainly be willing to listen but from our standpoint we are looking at creating sewer districts. We have got districts that we havewanted to get on the boards we have next week scheduling for public hearing on the creation of a new sewer district and in good conscience we really cannot do that without some feeling of confidence and I just do not want to delay this any longer than we have to. Is there a reason why we cannot do sixty? Mayor Regan-I just thought it bought us a little bit more time to get the whole thing done of course the level of detail that we have ended up going into with the MOU I guess it is not going to take all that long since we are three quarters of the way here now. So, I guess that is all right. City Councilman Pauquette-From what I am hearing right now there really is no deal breakers out here that says that we can't do this. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-Assuming the fire companies get together yes. Moderator Fosbrook-I have a lot offaith in the fire departments by the way. Water/wastewater Supt. VanDusen-1 do not disagree, from Ralph's view point I think there is an urgency to this and ... Moderator Fosbrook-Mayor, you will you also be responsible for minutes at next Wednesdays meeting so you will have to have someone there. Going forward, and representing Warren County Economic Development I would be happy to offer our services as a clearing house of information as a neutral place to go to resolve issues. Town Councilman Martin-I have a suggestion about the next meeting, it strikes me that we are going to be very close after the next meeting at least for the MOU would it be worthwhile to have the respective councils there Scott Reid and Bob Hafner during that meeting so I would expect at the next meeting we should be able to produce a draft for signature. Mayor Regan-We will bring as many attorneys as you want, we have got three of them. Moderator Fosbrook-Ok. So invite respective councils and also do you think we can get a draft into everybody's hand before the next meeting Mayor? Mayor Regan-Sure. Moderator Fosbrook-So that we would have a working document that everybody has in front of them to go forward. Dan I recognize and you were correct in stating those issues are not new issues and they were ones that we wanted to work on. Issues arose relative to contracts about fire coverage that prevented us in full filling our desire to meet your needs on that but these are not new issues. I think there is language in here that is going to address some of your concerns. It is already in here and I think we are going to extend that language based on some suggestions that Jim made. I guess that wraps it up for this week. We will try to get a document in your hands, if you would like I will try to work with Henry to facilitate the meetings and relative to the language on the audit. Ok. Thank you very much, I think we made a tremendous amount of progress.c Mayor Regan-Thank you Len for helping us. Meeting adjourned.