2002-07-08 SP
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
JULY 8, 2002
MTG. #32
RES. 287
7:00 p.m.
TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER COUNCILMAN ROGER
BOOR COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN TIM
BREWER
TOWN OFFICIALS COMPTROLLER HENRY HESS W A TER/W ASTEW A TER SUPT. RALPH
VANDUSEN DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF WASTEWATER-MIKE SHAW SOLE ASSESSOR HELEN
OTTE DIRECTOR OF RECREATION HARRY HANSEN IT DIRECTOR BOB KEENAN
Supervisor Brower - Opened the Meeting
Councilman Daniel Stec led the Pledge of Allegiance
1.0 DISCUSSION
1.0 Need for Human Resource Manager
Supervisor Brower noted there are 141 employees the Town Managers have noted the Town is in need of a
Human Resource professional. . .
Director Round-presented a letter from Amtek to the Town Board Members also noted that Town Counsel
prepared a memo on this proposal.. . noted this is a large organization, ... listed complex field of
employee regulation, employee education, required employee communications, and brief outline of
benefits and compensation programs that the Town has. These functions are generally handled by an
individual that is trained in human resource management who is trained in the complex field of
employment regulations and somebody who typically would have a four year degree is well versed and
comes with experience from working with organizations and employee management. Noted that there are
additional regulations imposed on municipal governments the fact that there is union representation at the
Town poses additional requirements. Spoke about need for regular training programs for employees, drug
education and pre- employment screening. . . Issues are dealt with at present by Department Managers,
Supervisor's Assistant or Comptroller's Office... spoke about consistency that is needed in the Town and
confidentiality .
WaterlWastewater Supt. VanDusen-Not only in my ability to manage the departments that I am involved
in but every department manager, you will find every manager that is here tonight will echo everything
that Chris said and they are here in support of that concept. Noted there is a non uniform mechanism for
hiring people, whether it requires a Town Board vote for every person or not has been done differently
over the last several years, with a human resource department that would be coordinated through them,
also noted coordination with Civil Service is needed. Having a human resource person would act as a third
party in many instances. . .
Recreation Director Hansen-Noted he had a personnel issues that should have been handled out of
department, if this person had dealt with a human resource person instead of the department head there
might not have been the animosity, there might not have been the direct contact, again it speaks to the day
to day issues that the departments face in many instances a human resource person would be away from
that day to day contact and would be able to handle or deal with it differently than a department manager.
It is definitely something that has come to age, we are not the small group that we were in 1978 when I
joined the Town of Queensbury, most organizations of this size have a human resource person to deal
with those issues that department managers aren't capable of dealing with.
Sole Assessor Helen Otte-Noted she wanted to reinforce the discussion regarding liability. I think the
town is vulnerable to liability, if you look through the regulations that are in affect these days either from
the Federal Government or the State Level they are very serious about their regulations and we try to deal
with these on a very piece meal make shift basis. I think we are very vulnerable.
Director of Technology Bob Keenan-Noted he felt there is a need for consistency, I hear comments from
my department's employees about differences between departments and how each is handled differently.
Having a human resource person would really help, it would take it out of the department and give it to a
central person and there is a real need for that.
Comptroller Henry Hess-Noted he is involved regularly in personnel matters, but noted that human
resources in not my field, I think my judgment is good when I have to exercise it and sometimes it is and
sometimes it could be better. Noted he attended along with Mr. Lavery a training session on human
resource, came away feeling it was a valuable training exercise but most of all it just re-enforced how
much we do not know about that field. Noted the need for consistency and the possibility of liability
exposure. A survey was done of twenty-five communities regarding how they handle personnel matters
and got a wide variety of responses, we are not alone in municipalities our size in not having a personnel
administrator and we are not alone in seeking to have one. Fifteen responded to the survey, three employ a
management level HR administrator, two employ a clerical level HR administrator, ten delegate the HR
responsibility to other administrative staff. Of the ten that don't have a HR administrator five of them are
seeking to fill that position. The group twenty-five to seventy there is a group of towns that responded and
I am surprised at the number of those that have clerical level HR administrators full time, in the group of
125 to 150 four of the seven in that group that don't have them are seeking to fill that position now. This
is only to show the trend.
Councilman Stec-Requested the employment trend over the last several years.
Comptroller Hess-Need for list of new regulations that we have to comply with, ADA, Family Medical
Leave Act, Training and other issues... spoke on fringe benefit cost 40-50% something for HR person to
look into. . .
Councilman Brewer-Noted an HR person will need a secretary, office I think we have to know the true
cost of what we are doing. . .
Councilman Turner-Questioned the salary range?
Comptroller Hess-One place pays 65,000 others low to mid 30's, either a trained clerical who aspires to
grow into a management position or somebody who is an assistant manager.
Councilman Stec-Requested the history of the size of the workforce, ten to fifteen years, the history of
where their duties have resided over the last ten to fifteen years, the history of Town wide HR specific
issues, if we could have a chronological order of things that have changed since the 1980's as far as what
new things are out there. Also requested input from Town Counsel on this matter.
Comptroller Hess-I think with an RH pro fewer things will be out of the ordinary, we have issues that
department managers should not handle within their department, they cannot do that it is not their
role. . . the HR person is advocating to protect the employees rights while at the same time making sure that
their employer is not being roped in.
Councilman Boor-Noted he could see a potential benefit to a more proactive approach.. . did question what
the human resource department would entail. . . questioned if it would be a one person department or a
staff?
Councilman Brewer-Questioned how many HR people does the County have and how long have they had
them and what model do they follow?
Director Round-Noted they will provide the board with the responses to the questioned asked tonight.
1.2 BAY ROAD SEWER PROJECT UPDATE
WaterlWastewater Supt. Ralph VanDusen and Deputy Director of Wastewater Mike Shaw
Deputy Director Mike Shaw-I do not have too much information on this because this is a private project,
hopefully created by a developer. Noted he talked to Tom Nace the engineer on the project for Rich
Schermerhorn and he is about a week away from getting a report together in a draft forrn. Hoping to meet
with the Board by the 22nd. in a workshop session to discuss the proposed plan. They are trying to include
all interested parties on the Bay Road.
Councilman Brewer-Questioned if this does not come about, how do we resurrect the older project?
Deputy Director Shaw-We had an agreement and it is now void I do not know if the people who sponsored
that still want to do that? I have had no contact with those people at all.
Councilman Brewer-Noted there was an approved sewer project for Bay Bridge, awaiting an easement,
that has now been settled...it was let go by the road because Mr. Schermerhorn wanted to do the sewer
because he can do it faster. . . questioned why. . .
Supervisor Brower-Noted that the project has changed, until we have the final proposal we will not know.
Deputy Director Shaw-Noted Mr. Schermerhorn needs the sewer to start his proposed projects...
Councilman Brewer-The problem has not gone away with Bay Bridge, how can we ignore them that is my
position, we are ignoring it, waiting for Mr. Schermerhorn and I think that is wrong.
Mr. Doug Auer-Discussed the changes in the proposed sewer district, listing Onmi, Day Care, and Medical
Arts Building. . . the scope of the project has changed... noted map, plan and report is going to
happen. . . spoke to the Board regarding the extension up Bay Road. . . suggested doing a scooping analysis
that will determine what sort of things could be done a generic fashion to be able to sewer the additional
area along Bay Road.
Mr. Joe LaGoe-President of the Homeowners Association Bay Bridge noted Mr. Auer was working for
Bay Bridge on easements etc. now is working for Schermerhorn, noted there are 80 homes at Bay Bridge
that have already contributed an assessment of close to seven hundred dollars a piece we asked for an
extension of last December the Board said we could not get an extension, we were willing to go ahead with
our project as it was planned from the beginning. Noted he was not sure what direction Mr. Schermerhorn
is going to go.
Councilman Brewer-If Mr. Schermerhorn doesn't come in with something that you guys would entertain?
Mr. LaGoe-Of course we would like to continue it.
Mr. Dan Valente -Mr. Valente, retired. The first map, plan and report done by Mr. Auer and Mr. Vollaro
does not hold any water anymore with the Town, it was denied in December to extend it. Questioned why
it was not extended?
Councilman Brewer-I do not recall voting on it.
Councilman Stec-I do not either.
Supervisor Brower-I recall it sounded like there was tremendous disorganization going on, Doug came in
representing the Bay Bridge Homeowners Assoc. Tom Nace came in representing Rich Schermerhorn,
Rich came in and showed us where their elevations were lower and their elevation were the ideal location
for a pump station and Bay Bridge could tie into it. I do not know if we officially turned it down.
Mr. Valente-I think it is the Town Board's responsibility from 1986 to today I have been here to try to get
the sewers in.. . all I am asking is cooperation of the Town Board...
Mr. Dan Valente Jr.-President of Valente homes also the developer of the front parcel on Bay Road which
my father owns and also a back parcel which I do not think has been taken into consideration up to this
point. We have yet to see any plans from Mr. Schermerhorn, we do not know if the plan is going to be
good or bad for all the interested parties.
Supervisor Brower-Mr. Schermerhorn and the Engineer and the Board are very interested in making sure
Bay Bridge is accommodated with any sewer extension that occurs in Bay Road.
Mr. Valente Jr.-Noted he was speaking about the other parcels that have to be sewered.
Supervisor Brower-noted that it was the easements from Valente that was the hold up...
Mr. Valente-Noted he did hold up the easements but talk to the homeowners to respond to why I had to
hold up the easements, there were other issues, there was four or five people involved in trying to stop
certain things from Valente builders. The majority of the homeowners support my company and my son's
company and what we plan for the community.
Mr. Valente Jr.-Noted if something happens he would be willing to help develop this sewer system down
Bay Road as a developer, I would bring the sewer line down and do the work.
Councilman Brewer-If Schermerhorn doesn't come in with something by the 22nd then I am ready to go
back to the original plan if the homeowners are willing to do that I am willing to do that and get it done.
Councilman Boor-I think we would like to make both parties happy...
Mr. Bob Vollaro-As a member of the Planning Board, Mr. Schermerhorn came before our board with his
presentation for a Medical Arts Building, he was notified at that meeting that municipal sewers were to be
a part of that project, he presently has a Day Care Center, on site sewer system, his project came before us
with the intent that, that be tied together. In order to get the map, plan and report to move we tied it to a
building permit. Spoke about the agreement between the Town and Bay Bridge not being a viable
document. Noted what he had seen looked like a viable project regarding the Schermerhorn proposal.
Spoke about the Cedar's project on Bay Road, they are putting an on site sewer system in for 114 systems
with ground water at three feet..they have to get a speedies permit for that. I have asked for a complete
signofffrom CT Male on that project. Noted that the Comprehensive Land Use Plan does not recommend
on site septic system for Bay Road due to the soil conditions. My recommendation to you get one or two
independent people, engineering background to sit in and take a look at what Bay Bridge has to do and
what Tom Nace has to do and what would be the best solution for getting Bay Bridge on line. Noted a
time line has to be set up.
Councilman Brewer-Lets get the plan here and have Mike and Ralph and possibly an engineer look at it to
see what is the best way to go.
Supervisor Brower-The only reason that the town participating in the first place is a developer was going
to establish municipal sewers on Bay Road they were going to size it to town standards and the town's size
piping, the town was simply prepared to pay for the additional cost of an excess capacity that the pipes
and the pump stations were sized for. That is simply the nature of our involvement. The idea was to keep
the cost for all participating residents and all participating businesses on the corridor at the lowest possible
cost. We still believe that is possible. Noted we are interested in seeing the map, plan and report and
seeing how it ties in, the town's main interest is to make sure it is sized appropriately for growth on the
corridor and it is going to function properly.
WaterlWastewater Supt. Ralph VanDusen-1 would just say that when this project first started before Bay
Bridge became involved the projects that were looked at by the Town as a Town looking at it as a whole,
like a lot of special district extensions when you include a lot of vacant undeveloped land it becomes
extremely expensive for that vacant land with very little immediate benefit. There is a long range benefit,
there is no question about that but somehow you have to subsidize that cost. The studies that were done
by Kestner and by O'Brien and Gere showed constructing a relatively large scale sewer district to mostly
vacant land. Just like we did when we look at extending a water district to the Jenkinsville area, it is
extremely expensive to supply vacant land for immediate benefit. The Bay Bridge plan came to the Town
with a slightly different concept that we will not build all the infrastructure we will put infrastructure in
that has got the capability of handling future extensions on Bay a master concept I will call it of what was
going to happen on Bay Road up to the Town Hall and even slightly farther north. The Town Board at that
time was willing to subsidize a major portion of the construction cost because of that capability or future
growth. Regarding my opinion on this, it was a very good idea, you have seen a lot of stones thrown by a
lot of people here tonight, it is pretty easy to see that there has been bickering along the way and confusion
along the way it was not a Town project, it was a developers project from our view point and that
developer happened to be Bay Bridge. We expressed concern about being able to complete it we were
assured back when Jim Martin was on the Board, he was emphatic, that this project was going to be
completed by a dead line. That is why the contract had a dead line. At the time we were approaching that
dead line it was more bickering there was people being arrested there was a lot of things happening within
this whole thing and it just seemed very clear at least to me that there was very little likely hood of that
district extension ever occurring. When we were talking about the Bay Bridge extension the map, plan and
report that was done for them, part of that map, plan and report we made it clear to them that we wanted to
be able to put in an infrastructure that could some day handle sewers coming from other adjacent areas.
Approximately the time that the contract was running out another project developed that was, that
property was initially conceived as something that someday might come in. Well, now things are changing
that maybe that property would come in right away and maybe a couple other parcels would come in right
away. We treated that developer the same as we did the Bay Bridge, and I am calling them developers in
this scenario, and we said our concept is that we want to be able to sewer the Bay Road corridor.
Whatever you do when ever you come in it has to be able to do that. Mike and I have met with Rich's
engineer, talked about the parcels that have expressed interest and told him that he needed to go back to the
people and re-canvas them to make sure that we were not including people that did not need to be
included and we are not excluding people that wanted to be. We talked about specific parcels, several are
owned by people in this room, to make sure that those parcels would be capable of being served.
Deputy Wastewater Director Shaw-It was our concern in the beginning that these type of situations turn
out to be something like it is now and we have visited that area three times in the past and most recently it
was done by O'Brien and Gere when Fred Champagne was here. The cost of that and the vacant land and
the people who did not want it, it was decided it was not a good project to proceed with. When the Bay
Bridge situation came about the Board wanted us to move ahead we tried to move ahead but it is a private
project. We review private projects and they have to meet the specs of the town and its needs and it moves
forward. At one time it was not moving forward due to internal problems, when another developer
stepped up and involved the other people that were involved the engineers and representatives, it was
thought this was a better way to go so that is why we are moving toward the Schermerhorn project. Until
we see the project it is hard for everybody to say if it is good or not, when we see the project we will go
from there, noted there may need to be modifications that will be dealt with at the time. I have no reason
to believe that the engineer with the other firm won't work with us to take care of any concerns that we
may have.
1.3 STATE POLICE
Supervisor Brower-The State Police Capt. from Wilton, Capt. Frank Pace would like the Town Board to
consider a purchase of a radar unit for their Queensbury Office to be utilized on and off the Northway for
enforcement. Noted he has spoken to Judge Muller and he indicated that this would be a prudent purchase
if the Board would consider it. Units $2,500 to $2,600... the Judge explained if someone is convicted of
speeding the fine is generally $130. to $150., ten dollars of that comes to the Town the balance to the State
of New York. If they plead guilt to a lower charge, non-moving violation in that case the fine is $100. and
100% of that comes to the Town of Queensbury. On an average court date we have ten to fifteen speeding
violations a percentage of those are reduced, if we were to have twenty-five reductions in speeding charges
we have paid for the unit. Typically the radar guns are purchased by the State Police with DWI funds but
DWI funds have been depressed because people are drinking and driving less so the amount that is spread
around the State is depressed. Noted other municipalities and have considered the purchase of Radar
Guns for police units. Questioned if the Board would like to support this?
Board discussed issue and it was a decision of the Board not to purchase the radar gun.
1.4 Discussions
Supervisor Brower-Wednesday, August 21st. at 7:00 P.M. at East Field the Police, Fire and EMS Units
of Warren and Washington County along with the Police Departments are participating in a Memorial to
September 11th. No expense to the Town and would like the Town Board to participate and be present.
Asked if a Town Board Member could attend a meeting tomorrow night on this event?
Airport Situation
Councilman Boor-Questioned if there has been any movement on the Airport situation?
Supervisor Brower-No. They have gone back to the FAA and are trying to find out if the trimming could
be confined to the runway parallel not the area around the runways, or if it needs to be done at all?
Councilman Boor-Since it is my Ward and you are the Supervisor I would like you to let me know what is
gomg on.
West Glens Falls EMS
Councilman Brewer-Questioned what happened to the WGF EMS Discussion tonight?
Supervisor Brower-Sandy Boucher called me and she said she is not prepared to come tonight, questioned
her if they still interested in an ambulance, they said they were willing to put that off. Noted they are still
waiting for what QEDC has come up with. Questioned her on the building concept, she had not gone to
Mr. Hess yet, and I asked her to do that.
Councilman Brewer-On our next workshop the retirement thing I would like to discuss..
Supervisor Brower-Mr. Hess will be prepared for the 22nd for information as to options and costs.
Councilman Boor-Requested that Ralph be present at that meeting.
Councilman Brewer-Noted we should have replacement costs for every individual able to retiree.
Supervisor Brower-Noted that the County decided today not to do anything with the retirement incentive,
because of the cost, 272 employees are eligible at the County if they were to offer it, of course you don't
have to offer it to certain individuals, you can be selective, but the cost of health insurance is a definite
factor because anyone both at the Town or the County that has ten years of full time service gets the
retirement benefit of the health insurance from then on.
Councilman Brewer-Requested that he be informed ahead of time, he will be out of town on the 22nd.
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
RESOLUTION NO. 287. 2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby Adjourns is Special Session.
Duly adopted this 8th day of July, 2002 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury