2002-08-19
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING
AUGUST 19,2002
MTG. #38
Res. #331-3447:09 P.M.
BOH #52-53
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR
COUNCILMAN DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER
BOARD MEMBER ABSENT THEODORE TURNER
TOWN COUNSEL Bob Hafner
TOWN OFFICIALS Nicholas Caimano, Warren County Board of Supervisor At Large Fred Champagne,
Warren County Board of Supervisor At Large Henry Hess, Comptroller Chris Round, Executive Director
of Community Development Ralph VanDusen, Water/Wastewater Superintendent Mike Shaw, Deputy
Wastewater Superintendent
PRESS: Glens Falls Post Star
Supervisor Brower called meeting to order....
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH
RESOLUTION NO.: 331, 2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED FOR IT'S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Regular
Session and enters as the Queensbury Board of Health.
Duly adopted this 19th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
AYES:
Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer
NOES:
None
ABSENT:
Mr. Turner
BOARD OF HEAL TLH
PUBLIC HEARING - SEWER VARIANCE - JIM WHITE NOTICE SHOWN 7: 10 P.M.
MR. TOM JARRETT -I'm here representing the White family. They have a camp on Cleverdale on Russell
Harris Road, it's the west side of Cleverdale and the drawing on the board shows the existing property, it's
about twenty-five feet wide, two hundred and forty-four feet long. They wish to upgrade an old out-of-date
septic system and we've submitted to the board a concept design for your review. Essentially, it's a raised
system, we're providing three feet vertical separation for the system above seasonal groundwater to meet
town code. The only standard that we can not meet is the side line setback to the fill that's part of the raised
system so, we're asking for a variance tonight for that setback.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-What about the drainage issue that Dave Hatin addresses in his letter.
MR. JARRETT -Right now drainage follows the pattern from north to south in that area. The property itself
drains from the house to the lake and then from the house easterly toward where we have shown the system
and there's drainage from the north crossing the property going to the south. There are some ... drainage
systems right now in that area that drain, I believe ultimately to the lake. The concern over drainage I
believe is because the property we're dealing with here is somewhat of a low point and drainage ponds
there during wet periods of the year. What we're proposing to do won't materially affect drainage, it won't
aggravate the drainage in that we won't create any more runoff. In fact, we may improve it by being able to
detain some of that water before it drains to Lake George. Our system is a raised system so any effluent
that, any effluent from our system would enter that drainage course in a treated fashion, it's not untreated
effluent. So, in my opinion, there won't be any adverse effects 0 drainage in the area. Now, bear in mind,
this is a concept design, we need to prepare a final design drawings and we will address that drainage in a
more detailed fashion for submission to the town.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-So, why wouldn't we see final drawings if
MR. JARRETT-We, it was my recommendation that we present this in concept form to the board to see if
you would entertain this variance before we prepared the final design drawings. If you, well, let me leave it
to the board.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Well, I guess I would say that we're doing a variance here and public hearing
tonight, if we're going to approve this or deny it, we ought to have drawings that show what you're going to
do.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Right.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Not a concept.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I would agree. I was looking through my paperwork, going, what am I missing, I
didn't get any drawings on this thing and I guess
MR. JARRETT-Essentially, all you're missing are construction details but if you wish to have those before
you act on it, the concept we've shown you where there's a section in your package that shows how the
system will be elevated and this plan view is in your package. So, essentially, all you are missing is the
construction details that the contractor would need.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-How wide is that property?
MR. JARRETT-Twenty-four feet. Twenty-five feet.
COUNCILMAN BREWER- Twenty-four feet wide, two hundred and forty feet long. How do you put a
house on that?
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well, the only thing is it's a replacement, if it wasn't for that, it's like, it's a, don't
think so but. I'd be more comfortable seeing the complete drawings, I think because this is unusually small.
It's probably not going to affect how I would vote on this but I'd feel better.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Well, at the bear minimum we could open the public hearing and wait for the
drawings the 9th, right?
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Sure.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Could you do that?
MR. JARRETT -Certainly.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-And then approve or disapprove then.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Well, I think it would be nice to hear any members of the public that would like
to comment for or against this since notification has gone out.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Oh, yea.
MR. JARRETT -From my perspective, I would like to, if you're not going to entertain this proposal, I'd like
my client to know that tonight but if you're leaning toward approving it, you know.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-What are the alternatives?
MR. JARRETT -Depending on the conditions, the drainage conditions, there's really no other alternative
except a holding tank.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-That's an alternative.
MR. JARRETT -It's the only other alternative we have. I don't mind giving you design details but I don't
want to waste my clients money.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-This is a situation where I wouldn't mind seeing two properties have one
system and join together. Has that every been done?
MR. JARRETT -Certainly, it's been done. It's difficult to do, it's, the logistics become tricky but it certainly
has been done.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Well, I think in an instance like this, it just makes sense because you have
more land, if this back part of the people next door's not being used, I mean it's just better, it's better for the
environment, in my mind instead of trying to squeeze one on a twenty-four foot piece of property and then
the next guy has got fifty-four feet and try to squeeze one on there and then the other guy's got thirty-five
feet, you've got three systems where you could have two or maybe even one.
MR. JARRETT -In theory, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Is that something that could be talked about?
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Are any of the neighbors here?
MR. JARRETT-I surmise they are, I don't know for sure.
COUNCLMAN BREWER-I'm guessing they are.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well, I'djust, I'd like to hear from them, I think and then
MR. JARRETT -Certainly.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Any more questions for Mr. Jarrett at this time? Okay, thank you, Mr. Jarrett.
Yes, at this time, I'd like to open the public hearing and invite any resident that would like to comment
either way on this proposal. Yes, sir. Please introduce yourself for the record, your name and address
please.
MR. ROBERT WHITE-My name is Robert White, I own number 50 Russell Harris Road which is two lots
up from this one. We've been there since 1936, I'm a Civil Engineer by education and profession. I am a
little bit disturbed from what I just heard. If anyone were to stand where that property is and look north,
you'd see a fairly sizeable catching area. The snow runoff and the rain runoff is considerable at times.
There was always natural drainage behind those properties to the south. In fact, behind that property and
toward the three other properties further south, when I was a kid, it was sort of a marshy area, we used to
catch frogs there and sell them for bait. It's always been that way but the drainage has always been south,
there is a considerable drainage through there. You can not underestimate this. My backyard at times
during a heavy freshet has been a foot deep in water because, and that was exasperated by the paving of the
road up ahead. In other words, water runs down there so quickly. Thiscan not be underestimated, the
extent of the drainage situation, the drainage requirement there. You can not dam it. I insist that it not be
dammed. I own a hundred feet, I have a nice big lot and it's normally good and dry but once in a while, if
we get two or three inches of rain in a day or so, you get a lot of water down through there. That's number
one. Number two, my second concern is that this installation, let's face it, it's a stretch. It's about a four
foot high mound, stretching the whole back of that property. There must be consideration of the aesthetics
of this. I don't know what it is, I've not seen it, I can't really visualize what it'd be like but I would insist
again, that the aesthetics of this be looked at with regard to how this is going to affect my quality of life and
those of my family and how is it going to affect the property value of my property should this thing be put
in here. I think these considerations that must be made. I realize the rights and privileges of the owne's
property but we all know that the reason for these regulations, these setbacks and such, is to protect the
rights and privileges of the neighbors as well, it's part of the game. Why many years ago were these
setback requirements enacted? In the sixty-six years that we've lived there, I've seen a lot of changes on
Harris Bay and not all of them have been to the benefit of Harris Bay, let's face it. I think largely due to the
inattention of authorities many, many years ago. Such installations of the Harris Bay Marina were allowed
to be put in and that has definitely not enhanced the environment of Harris Bay. It's water over the danm,
let's face it but to think that that beautiful wetland was allowed to be filled in, that wildlife habitat was
allowed to be destroyed and all that traffic disrupting the marine vegetation in that bay, is a sin. I think
that, I just hope that as you consider this, and I realize that these people, that these neighbors, they're good
neighbors, have a problem but I hope that ou consider all these other affects, the things that could happen if
this is allowed to be done. Whatever your decision is, please keep these considerations that I raised in mind
and I thank you very much for the time.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Thank you. Would anyone else care to address the board regarding this
application at this time?
MR. JOHN SALVADOR-My name is John Salvador. What is precipitating the need to install this
wastewater treatment facility?
COUNCILMAN BOOR-It's not spelled out.
MR. SALVADOR-It should be made clear why we're doing this. Fundamentally here, I think what you
have is a non-build able lot and it's a classic case where you should go to a holding tank. However, that
necessitates an encumbrance on seasonal use but that seems to be the only logical solution here. Thank
you.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Thank you. Yes, sir.
MR. GARY SAMPSON-Good evening, my name is Gary Sampson, I live at 54 Russell Harris Road, I'm
the property just below the one you see there and even though there's very little slope to the White's
property, I'm the one down hill and so I have some particular concerns about what we're doing here. First
of all, just let me quickly say that, almost in answer to the previous gentleman's question, Jim wants to
improve the house, the structure that's on this lot and make it bigger, have more room for his family and
himself and I fully support that. The previous owners of this lot, they went fifteen years with no
maintenance on it and it looks it and I'd love nothing better then to see Jim and his family upgrade this
thing, make it nice, make it pretty, I think we all benefit from that. But, this isn't 1950 where when you
want to build more, you just grab some hammer and nails and you know, you start going. For him to
increase the size of his house, even one square foot apparently, he needs an updated sewer, disosal system
and I think that's really what is precipitating this. So, bottom line there is that, I have no problem with the
goals and ambitions of the White family here, I fully support it. I do have some very significant problems
with the proposal that has been brought forth here, though. I mean it's, I've been looking at it and I've been
on the internet looking at the Town of Queensbury website in getting familiar with Chapter 136 of the code
here. It's something I really didn't want to learn but I guess I had to. If you look at the design that's been
submitted here, especially the next to last page, it shows a cross section of this mound and if you look at
this, this is me right here, on this side and this design serves to, a couple purposes. First of all, Jim's
property is now a watershed onto mine. All the rain water's coming right down, off the mound, off his
path, right onto my property because, not, they aren't just filling, they're not just going within ten feet,
they're going to zero here. Tey are going to fill right to the property line. So, any stormwater runoff is now
right on my lot and my percolation isn't any better then his, I can't afford the water. We had an event a
couple of years ago where someone compromised the existing drainage system in that area, I had six inches
of water under my house and I don't want that to happen again. Other neighbors had basements flooding,
septic tanks overflowing, everything and the general drainage in this whole area, if I may, is all coming
down this way. It's almost all because this way, so, you're putting an eighty foot long dam right at the, total
opposition to the natural drainage in the area and the back side of this dam is a watershed onto my lot, right
to the property line and that concerns me greatly. Second of all, by them coming out this far on this side, if
there is a pollution problem in the future, that effluent starts leaching out the bottom side which is my side
of this thing, it's not leaching onto his property, it's leaching onto ine and quite frankly, I don't want a
pollution problem from his sewage mound and I shouldn't be expected to have one. There must be some
kind of distance between what they're doing here and the property line. In fact, I would very much want, if
they go through with this, I want to see some type of impervious barrier, a curb, a six inch high curb along
the entire length of it, that if there is a pollution problem from this mound, it stays on his property and he
has to clean it up. I don't want it on my property where I have to get involved and deal with someone else's
sewage and I don't think I should be expected to have that risk and it is a definite risk. So, I have a
problem, the variance, going to zero feet on this side, I believe it's paragraph 136-A3 states that, you will
only go with the minimum variance required to effect what needs to be done here. Going to zero is not
minimum, that's the maximum variance required and I think it's totally inconceivable that this idea, that
they thought this woul go anywhere. I mean, it just doesn't make any sense to me. So, I have problems
with the stormwater runoff, I have problems with the pollution and if you go to the next page of this
proposal, oh, I'm sorry, the previous page which is very, it's a blowup of what they show, it's a hand drawn
diagram. This is a misrepresentation of what's there. Flat out, it misrepresents the facts that are important
to this. If you notice in the middle, he's got a couple of trees here and he's got a little rock, about the same
size as the trees. Alright. If I may, I made up a couple of copies of this and you can look at these. This is
the rock. It's about four foot by six foot in size and it sits up in the air about a foot and a half, it is a big
boulder and it is going to be right underneath this mound. Now, what's, what is the effluent going to do
when it hits that thing? Will that section of this mound, will it go the other way towards my property? Will
it try to get around it? Will you have higher concentration of effluent in certain areas? I don't know what's
going to happen, I'm not a civil engineer. But it concerns me that you have this real big rock sticking right
up into the middle of this mound and that's not shown on this. They show this nice little rock here and in
reality, it stretches the entire distance between the two trees that you have on here. Now, a second thing
that I find really egregious is that in one of the corner pictures you see, that is an open catch basin and that
catch basin is right underneath this mound. That catch basin takes water from Mr. Bob White's house, two
doors up who spoke first, it comes in from his, it exits down underneath my property to the Spath residence
and where it goes from there, Mr. Spath can speak to. This is a fifty year old drainage system. If you
compromise this drainage system, I'm going to have a flood again. So, it must be kept in tact but you can't
leave an open catch basin right underneath this hill, you're going to have effluent going directly into t and
eventually into the lake and e-coli is not my friend. I don't want to see it. I get my drinking water right out
of this lake. I don't want to see effluent going into it. So, you're going to have to cap this thing off. Well,
if you cap it off, now you have another problem. Where's all the water here going to go? So, something
has to be done to handle this. How this catch basin and this existing drainage system got omitted from this
diagram, I find it egregious because, I believe it was Mr. Jarrett when he stopped out, I met him out, I was
outside that day and I pointed the thing out to him. I said, remember this, you can not disturb this thing and
I showed him it but it didn't get onto his little drawing here and to me, I personally, I am a professional
engineer, registered in the State of Florida and in my capacity when I worked down in Florida, if I ever had
a subordinate do something like this, his job would be in jeopardy because professional engineers do not
misrepresent like this. Now, asfar as this proposal goes, we don't have a proposal. The final page of this is
a survey very similar to that. It's wrong. Okay, it's flat out wrong. If you read the bottom of there, it talks
about encroachment. There is no encroachment. A fully legal right-of-way was established in December
of the year 2000 and again, if the professional engineers had shown due diligence in checking this thing, as
they're required to, they would have found out that there is encroachment, there's a right-of-way. So, he
doesn't even have twenty-five feet to play with anymore, he's got about twenty-four cause he can't, on my
side, he can't go to the property line, he can only go up to the right-of-way. He's not allowed to cover that
right-of-way with one grain of sand, at all. Now, that should have been on here too. Whatever, I guess I've
taken up enough of your time. Suffice it to say though, that this proposal violates Section 136-19 of the
ordinances of Queensbury. They state that you will have, I believe it's a mp of the area for five hundred
feet. Does that sound familiar? I don't have it, oh, here it is. Among other things, a map showing the
property and all properties within a radius of five hundred feet of the exterior boundaries there of, plans and
elevations necessary to fully describe the conditions for which a variance is sought and all other
information reasonably considered by the local board of health. This does not have any of that and so, you
don't even have a proposal yet. Not a valid one, according to the ordinances of this town and until you have
a valid proposal no action can be taken on this. Thank you very much.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Thank you. Would anyone else care to address the board at this time? Yes, sir.
MR. LEON SPATH -lam Leon Spath and I own the two parcels south of the parcels that you see on this
map. In other words, I am twenty-five feet from the property line that we're dealing with here and you have
heard statements made, we have a stormwater drainage system that runs right through there. The town
hadn't really wanted to admit that we had it and you heard mention that a few years ago we had a problem.
Well, we went through a hearing just like this and went for a building variance, they issued it and that
hearing, Mr. White was here and I was here and we all stressed the importance of the stormwater problem.
The town allowed the variance, allowed the neighbors to fill, and then we had all sorts of problems. What
happened, they stopped the water. Then it proceeded to go through me, not across me, down my driveway,
eroded all of that, into our septic systems and I ran into all sorts of flap. I was hoping that maybe the
attorney would be here or Mr. Steves or some, but they aren't, they were involvd in this. I had a meeting
with the town, with Mr. Champagne who is no longer with us, Mr. Naylor who is no longer with us and
they just, they said, the drainage problem here was the town because of the town road going through there.
Mr. Naylor being the man that he was, he tried. There's another, this comes in two ways, most of it comes
this way, some of it comes from across the road and, but they tried to solve that, they didn't. And so now,
the stormwater that comes down through and it is very, very measurable, now instead of going across the
back of me, it goes through me, underground but it goes through me and it comes out on my front lawn. I
can't put it in the lake but I could keep it from going through our septic systems, I could keep it from going
through my cellar. My cellar had four inches of water coming out of it in the spring time simply because
they had danmed it up and I don't want to see this happen again. I went through hell with the town. I had
letters from the attorney and, but thy tend to ignore plus the fact that there, I believe there's a little bit of
politics involved because Lloyd Demboski was involved in this, he's the next man, the other side of me is
his son. So, it's a very touchy situation but I want to know that you people are listening to what is being
said and not just ignoring it because I went through two years of holy terror because the town, because of
their, mainly the building department failing to abide by the fact that you don't dam water up and they
allowed it to happen. I don't want to see it happen again to the people that are uphill, I've got it taken care
of, if it gets to me and we've got it, Bob mentioned, he used to have water that deep, he doesn't. We've
been very, very fortunate but I had to do it on my own. The only thing, and my attorney wrote the town
requesting information, what are they going to do and it was completely ignored. He wrote a letter three
months later to the town wondering what is the town going to do so that I can protect my proerty. We
never got a response. I protected my property but I don't want to see this happen again and go through the
same fiasco because somebody just didn't do their job. That situation is there. I don't know what's going to
happen when, if they did put this there. The water has got to go some place. Now, whether it goes out to
the road and then down through me, I don't know. Or, right now, it's working but if you put a stop to it or if
you do anything to it to stop it, you're going to run into problems and I just want the board to know that the
situation is there, you can't sit there and ignore it and it's got to be taken into consideration. That's about all
I have to say.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Thank you very much. Anyone else care to address the board at this time? Yes,
SIr.
MR. MICHAEL SHEARER-My name is Michael Shearer, I'm 52 Russell Harris Road, the neighbor to the
north. The biggest comment is in the back comer with the drainage system, okay. Every spring, I do have
water in the back comer of my property where their drainage is now. Every year I have to clean out my
drains to allow the water from Mr. White's property to run under and go on down to Mr. Spath. I have a
hand dug cellar under my place, every now and then I receive water in there that I have to deal with and get
rid of, alright and the other thing, the last two summers have been very dry, okay. We've had very little
rain fall, there's very little water problem in the last two years. First year we got the place was when Mr.
Spath was out there every day with a digging bar digging his new trench to allow the water to come out of
Mr. White's property. Mr. White was flooded out and that was because of what was done to downstream of
him. I was amazed that that was allowed to happen because we were starting t flood out. I had a lot of
water in my basement that year that I had to deal with. I'm next door to him, I'm upstream to his dam, any
water that comes up and hits will run off and run down into my cellar and then I have a water problem. We
have no problems with them wanting to fix up their camp, that's not the issue. The issue here is the
drainage system. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Thank you, sir. Would anyone else care to address the board on this subject?
Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing portion.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED 7:40 P.M.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Mr. Jarrett, do you have any comment?
MR. JARRETT -Yes, I can address those comments, a number were raised. First of all, to clarify, I believe
for this variance is that the structure is proposed for upgrade. My understanding is that it will be enlarged,
however, there were three bedrooms, are three bedrooms and will be three bedrooms. So, the intensity of
use will not increase for sizing a septic system. As far as the drainage, I am aware of a drainage situation.
I met with Mr. Sampson in the field, he described the drainage problem to me. We looked at the drainage
catch basins, there are several, there's one on the White property and there's one off the property, just down
stream on the south of the property. That time, actually, one of the structures was offered for use in solving
this problem, that maybe off the table now, I'll have to find out during final design. We are aware that a
drainage situation needs to be dealt with, we will deal with that in final design. At the board's request, we
will come back with final drawings. The ctch basin on the White property will be removed, taken out of
service, that won't function any longer. I will go back and reiterate that when we place fill on this property,
number one, we're raising the system to meet code to get the proper treatment for effluent and we will not
be increasing the amount of runoff from the property. We will be changing the drainage patterns and that's
what I think most of the concerns should center around. We will pass some of the drainage beneath our
system and some of it around our system but we know we need to address that situation. As far as the rock
on the property and the other situations that were mentioned as being misrepresented, this is a survey
prepared by a licensed surveyor. We will address any of those concerns that were raised tonight during our
final design, but we did not find bedrock below the system when we did our subsurface investigation. We
find bedrock during construction, we will address it and modify the system as, as we always do in every
systm.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Caroline, do you have a letter from Mr. Hatin?
DEPUTY TOWN CLERK BARBER-Yes I do.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-I'd ask you to read it into the record please.
DEPUTY TOWN CLERK BARBER read the following letter into the record:
Dear Board Members;
Mr. White is proposing to replace an existing system with a new more modem system.
Unfortunately the constraints of his property do not allow a conforming system to be installed and therefore
he is seeking a variance from the property line for the system.
It is also my understanding that Mr. Jarrett will be at the meeting tonight to discuss the drainage issue
which has been brought to my attention by the neighbors.
Provided Mr. Jarrett can satisfactorily answer the drainage question, I see no reason why the Town Board
cannot approve this variance.
Sincerely,
David Hatin, Director Building and Code Enforcement
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Okay, thank you, Caroline. I have to tell you Mr. Jarrett that in this particular
instance, a holding tank would appear to be a better solution from what I've heard tonight but I don't know
how other board members feel about the situation.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Having listened to the public and getting a little bit better idea of what is actually
going on here, I would agree with Dennis. Obviously, it's a very small lot so it's going to create problems
for anything you do. The fact that the neighbors are here, that they have concerns and I believe they are
legitimate. Really, a holding tank is the only thing I would be comfortable with having heard the
discussion tonight. We are in a dry year and any kind of mounding, it's going to be inappropriate, I think
and when I look at what we've got here, this drainage, from the one man's property, this is a classic case of
where a holding tank is really the safest and most ideal use. I mean, it's such a substandard lot that I think
it's the ideal way to approach it. I know Mr. White probably doesn't like it but I must say, you say that it's
going to remain three bedrooms but I would guess that and I can only guess, that what would be happening
here is he would be improving it to be a year round residene where it might not be such now which means
there's a higher probability that more effluent is going to be produced. I think when you have lots this size,
you have to have a conscience effort made to restrict the type of water use you have. You've got water very
close to the ground, you did mention that there was no bedrock found but obviously there is rock in the area
and I don't know how much else is there. So, rather then go back and do construction drawings for this
system that you presented tonight, I would really only be happy with a holding tank in this situation.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Tom, if we're talking about a holding tank, the first question we should be asking is
it seasonal or a year round use right now?
MR. JARRETT -I don't know as I can speak to that. I believe it's seasonal right now, I don't know what the
future use will be.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Because I do know that in the past, when we encumbered properties with the
holding tanks, that we've had them stipulate that it was, it would continue to be seasonal use and so, if we're
going to go that route, I think we're going to need a similar agreement or similar stipulation.
MR. JARRETT-I can't speak to the use right now.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-It's in the code.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Well, right.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I agree that a holding tank probably would be the best solution other then, if
you had conversation with the neighbor and you could, two properties use one system, or three properties
use one system that certainly, if I was the neighbor and had the property available and it was at your
expense, I would consider and I don't know if that would be something you'd want to do or not but this
doesn't look like it's going to be the best solution.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-I have a question for you Mr. Jarrett, should a holding tank be considered for
this application, normally we would bury it, do you have the ability to bury a tank on this property?
MR. JARRETT-I believe we do, we, blasting might have to be involved if bedrock is below where our
investigation depth. I don't, I can't answer that question right now.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Okay. Chris, what's the appropriate procedure at this point in time? Just ask the
applicant to come back with revised plans?
MR. CHRIS ROUND, Executive Director-Yea, I think you've given the applicant an indication that you're
not going to entertain a variance and that you're
SUPERVISOR BROWER-We deny the, would we actually officially deny the variance or?
MR. ROUND-I defer to the applicant and that maybe that want to reconsider.
MR. JARRETT -Before you vote on it, I may wish to withdraw it and go back and talk with my client and
see how they wish to proceed.
MR. ROUND, Executive Director-There are, you touched on one of the reasons that you can install, use a
holding tank in lieu of a conventional system. There are other treatment technologies that might not require
a variance, or a different variance. Holding tanks can be used for year round use if the system has been
identified as a failed system and that you wouldn't have to encumber it with a seasonal use restriction and
we have additional guides, we have that in a form of a letter from the Department of Health and from the
Town Counsel that we can share with the applicant, what terms are appropriate for holding tanks.
MR. JARRETT-We could also present a variance request to leave the system the way it is right now since
it apparently is working and is not encumbering drainage as long as they stay with seasonal use of the
property. As long as they don't increase the intensity.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-And yet if you're increasing the size of the structure, there's potential for
MR. JARRETT-I don't know the improvements, I could go back and have them submit the improvements.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I don't think we want to get into that, it's not up to us, that would be up to the
Planning Board.
MR. ROUND, Executive Director-That is an allowable alternative. I think the reason for the regulation, I
think the intent of the regulation is to bring systems up to standards and one of the alternatives to not
meeting the standard is a variance from the standard and I think that's what, but I think you probably want
to investigate what exactly is in place and how significant is that relief that
MR. JARRETT -Just for point of clarification, no matter what pre-treatment we provide, we still have to
provide a raised leaching system so this drainage issue will not, will not go away.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-And my take also, it sounds like it's pretty wet around here. Is that correct?
MR. JARRETT -Alright, it's a low point and there certainly is drainage that collects on this property but it's
not marshy or it's not a wetland, if that's what you mean.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well, one of the gentleman had said that, I believe the first one, had said that at
certain years, there was a foot of standing water and I believe somebody else here said that on occasion
they get water in their cellar which would lead me to believe that water isn't that far from the surface.
MR. JARRETT -I suspect it's due to the type soil that creates a perched water table in the spring and it may
be the backfill around their structures that's also causing that. But they're quite a ways above the lake levels
so it's not, not due to a permanent groundwater table.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-So, you're saying it's soil types that don't allow the rapid diffusion.
MR. JARRETT -Correct, correct.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I'd say, you come back with some alternatives.
MR. JARRETT-Alright, I formally request a withdrawal of the application.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Done.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Okay.
MR. JARRETT-Thank you.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Thank you, sir.
RESOLUTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING ON SEWAGE DISPOSAL VARIANCE APPLICATION
OF PATRICK SEELYE
BOARD OF HEALTH RESOLUTION NO.: 52,2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board serves as the Town's Local Board of Health and is
authorized by Town Code Chapter 136 to issues variances from the Town's On-Site Sewage Disposal
Ordinance, and
WHEREAS, Patrick Seelye has applied to the Local Board of Health for variances from Chapter
136 to allow a leach field to be located 80' from the well in lieu of the required 100' setback on property
located at 28 Reardon Road, Queensbury,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town of Queensbury Local Board of Health will hold a public hearing on
September 9th, 2002 at 7:00 p.m. at the Queensbury Activities Center, 742 Bay Road, Queensbury, to
consider Patrick Seelye's sewage disposal variance application concerning property situated at 28 Reardon
Road, Queensbury (Tax Map No.: 289.7-1-28) and at that time all interested persons will be heard, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Local Board of Health authorizes and directs the Queensbury Town Clerk to
publish the Notice of Public Hearing presented at this meeting and send a copy of the Notice to neighbors
located within 500 feet of the property as required by law.
Duly adopted this 19th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Boor, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES
None
ABSENT:
Mr. Turner
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH
BOARD OF HEALTH RESOLUTION NO.: 53,2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR IT'S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Board of Health hereby adjourns from session and enters
Regular Session of the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury.
Duly adopted this 19th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
AYES:
Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer
NOES:
None
ABSENT:
Mr. Turner
PUBLIC HEARING PROPOSED LOCAL LAW - 2002 RETIREMENT INCENTIVE PROGRAM
NOTICE SHOWN 7:48 P.M.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Mr. Hess, would you care to address this, please.
MR. HENRY HESS, Comptroller-The state is offering a targeted retirement incentive this year that is
available to the town. There are approximately, thirteen full-time non-union employees that could be
eligible. We, the board is considering, is presently considering a couple of department restructurings that
might make a, might make it financially advantageous to offer a retirement incentive to a small number of
those employees, less then a handful. There's no decision being made on this, on this resolution as to who
would be offered to, or if anybody would receive it but this is the last meeting that you're holding prior to
the deadline for adopting the local law that would allow you the future option to do that. The resolution
calls for, I'm not sure what version is here, but it's supposed to be a sixty day window.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Sixty days, I had the old version.
MR. HESS, Comptroller-Yea, the sixty day window of opportunity which would start in November which,
the state allows up to a ninety day window, this provides for a sixty day window which is acceptable. The
window, and it would, anybody that's offered the incentive, if they are, would have the opportunity to retire
between November 2nd and December 31st and receive the incentive. The incentive is not without cost to
the town. In most cases, offering the incentive to employee would cost the town around thirty-six thousand
dollars. So, it's the, offering it would require some restructuring of departments in order to save that money
back in gross payroll or payroll related expenses.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Thank you. Anyone questions of Henry by board members at this time? Okay,
hearing none, I'll open the public hearing and ask if any members of the public would care to comment one
way or another on the proposal to enable selective early retirement to be offered? Okay.
MR. HESS, Comptroller-I would like to add I think that, there's been a history of the town adopting this
law in past years. They haven't done it for the past two years, there was not a scenario that made it feasible
but prior to that time, for several years in a row the town did adopt a local law and in fact a couple
instances it did offer targeted incentives to several people and within, about three or four years ago an
employee did retire using this, using the incentive.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Okay. Comments from board members at this time? Hearing none, I will close
the public hearing and ask for a motion.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED 7:51 P.M.
RESOLUTION ENACTING LOCAL LAW NO.: 4, OF 2002 TO ADOPT 2002 RETIREMENT
INCENTIVE PROGRAM
RESOLUTION NO.: 332, 2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board wishes to consider enactment of a Local Law which
would adopt a 2002 Retirement Incentive Program offered to eligible Town of Queensbury employees, and
WHEREAS, such legislation is authorized in accordance with Chapter 69 of the Laws of 2002 of
New York State, and
WHEREAS, the Board conducted a public hearing concerning the proposed Local Law on August
19th, 2002 and heard all interested persons,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby enacts Local Law No.: 4 of 2002 to adopt
a 2002 Retirement Incentive Program offered to eligible Town of Queensbury employees, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Queensbury Town Clerk to
file the Local Law with the New York State Secretary of State in accordance with the provisions of the
Municipal Home Rule Law and the Local Law shall take effect immediately and as soon as allowable under
law.
Duly adopted this 19th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor
NOES
None
ABSENT:
Mr. Turner
LOCAL LAW NO.: 4 OF 2002
A LOCAL LAW ELECTING A RETIREMENT INCENTIVE PROGRAM AS AUTHORIZED BY
CHAPTER 69, LAWS OF 2002
BE IT ENACTED BY THE TOWN BOARD OF THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY AS
FOLLOWS:
SECTION 1.
~ 1 The Town of Queensbury hereby elects to provide all of its eligible employees with a
retirement incentive program authorized by Chapter 69, Laws of 2002.
~2. The commencement date of the retirement incentive program shall be November 2,2002.
~3. The open period during which eligible employees may retire and receive the additional
retirement benefit shall be sixty (60) days in length.
~4. The actuarial present value of the additional retirement benefits payable pursuant to the
provisions of this Local Law shall be paid as one lump sum, or in five annual installments. The amount of
the annual payment shall be determined by the Actuary of the New York State and Local Employees'
Retirement System and it shall be paid by the Town of Queensbury.
~5. This act shall take effect August 19th, 2002.
SECTION 2.
Severability .
In the event that any provision of this law should be deemed invalid or illegal by a court oflaw,
the remaining portions of the law shall be read to the extent possible, as if said provision was stricken
therefrom and not a part thereof.
SECTION 3.
Effective Date.
This Local Law shall take effect upon proper filing initially with the New York State Secretary of
State and subsequently with the New York State and Local Retirement System in accordance with the
terms and provisions of the Municipal Home Rule Law of the State of New York.
CORRESPONDENCE
DEPUTY TOWN CLERK BARBER noted that the Town Clerk Monthly Report for July, 2002 has been
received and filed.
SUPERVISOR BROWER noted that he received a petition from homeowners in the vicinity of Warner
Bay, specifically the bay near Fisher's Marina and have scheduled a discussion for next workshop
Wednesday, August 28th....
OPEN FORUM 7:55 P.M.
MR. PLINEY TUCKER, 41 Division Road noted that he had not heard from Supervisor Brower.
SUPERVISOR BROWER noted that he would schedule the discussion for the workshop on the 28th if that
would be agreeable.
MR. TUCKER noted that he would be there... Thanked Tim Brewer and Mr. Hafner for their efforts and
the progress at the lookout above the water plant, part of the Hudson Point project... Questioned whether
the town will receive the three hundred and seventy thousand dollars that the Barbers borrowed from the
town?
COMPTROLLER HESS noted that the town has to wait for the Judge.
MR. TUCKER questioned the town's chances of getting the money?
COMPTROLLER HESS-Slim to none, there's a lot of creditors.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-I'm hopeful that we get it all back so that we can have it available for business
loans for the future.
MR. TUCKER-Referred to resolution 6.11, Resolution Requesting and Authorizing Warren County to
Retain Sales Tax Revenues and Offset Property Taxes, questioned whether the people should have a say in
this?
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Giving their money back, what person would say no?
MR. TUCKER-Give it back to the people direct.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-We can't... If the tax rate is five dollars at the county and we reduce the tax by
fifty cents, the tax rate is four-fifty, no matter what they spend, that's up to them. The tax rate for the
taxpayers in the Town of Queensbury will be four-fifty if it's five dollars now.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Whatever the county sets, it will be fifty cents, plus or minus, less, next year.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-So, regardless of what the county does, we're still reducing the tax rate for the
residents of the town.
MR. NICHOLAS CAIMANO, 36 Surrey Field Drive, Supervisor At Large-One of the reasons why it was
different before is because the tax valuation was less then a hundred percent. Now, it's a hundred percent
so you get back dollar for dollar. And you will get back your dollar if you leave this money in the county.
There's a number, and I talked to Mr. Hess earlier and I talked to each of you, there's a number some where
in there which allows you to keep a zero tax town rate and at the same time give back money to the
taxpayers of Queensbury from the County tax. I don't know what that number is, it takes some
investigation and I've invited Mr. Hess as a member of your board to come with our people at any time to
go through the numbers and find out what that is. But don't forget, we're going to be giving you back a
hundred percent. Any surplus now, which comes back to the county, we only get thirty-four percent as our
part of the county. So, this is an opportunity to give back dollar for dollar on the tax and t follows through
with something that you're already doing and that's helping the taxpayers of Queensbury with the zero town
tax. So, I would hope that you would seriously do this. There is a time limit on this, I would hope that you
would put a rider on it and that is to put something in the resolution that you pass that you do it this year,
provided that the numbers work out for all of you properly because September one is the deadline date. It's
l262C of town law that gives you the right to do this and September one is the date for next year, so if you
want to give the people of the Town of Queensbury a gift for 2003, it has to be done now. I would
encourage you to do this, I've been trying for years to get you to do this, you're not the lone ranger, the
Towns of Bolton, Hague and Lake George currently do it and it's a dollar for dollar rebate to the
Queensbury taxpayer.
MR. FRED CHAMPAGNE, 1 Juniper Drive, Supervisor At Large-I'd like to discuss with you the
resolution 6.11 that does authorize the town to leave sales tax money with the county. I've got some
numbers here and I would hope Henry, you kind of go through this with me because if I'm in error, please
correct me. By local taxes we raise about seven point seven million. Of that Queensbury's portions of that
seven point seven is somewhere in the neighborhood of thirty-five percent which if you put those numbers
together, you're somewhere in the neighborhood of two point seven, two point six million dollars. My
argument here this evening, to be very honest with you, going back to my days, hanging around here
Henry, I guess we're looking today at about a six, seven million surplus, give or take some change.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-About seven two, some where near there.
MR. CHAMPAGNE-And your general fund budget today is somewhere in the neighborhood of seven or
eight, maybe you can help me with that Henry?
MR. HESS, Comptroller-About seven million dollars.
MR. CHAMPAGNE-Seven million dollars, so really you have a hundred percent surplus holding in the
town's reserve for a seven million dollar budget. Now folks, that's really rich. That is really rich. If you
talk to the comptroller, and I can only go back to my days in education where if you held more then twelve
to fifteen percent of your budget, you were over budget, you were well over budget. So, we have to keep
that in mind as I go through these numbers. I know you have a number major projects on the board that
you're looking at and I think that makes good sense. However, I might also add to that, you know, as a
taxpayer in the Town of Queensbury for forty-five, forty-six years, I paid for a number of projects that had
been undertaken of the course of the years and in many cases, I paid for them through bonding. Now, I
don't mind bonding fire houses because I'm going to be protected by the fire folks and EMS and what have
you, and I'd also like to call your attention to the fact that my tax slip herefrom last year shows about
county protection up about twenty-six point seven percent and EMS up about thirty-nine percent. Now, I
recognize that these percentages in terms of numbers are taxing districts that you can't play around with but
I also can do some things with the general fund tax that's going to save that taxpayer some dollars at the
county by merely saying to the county, look, we would like to have you, Dan is talking about one year,
obviously when I sat in that chair, I was looking forward to this forever and forever because it just makes
good sense. If it's economical development you're talking about gentlemen, then this is the place to start.
You know, an eighteen cent deal on the general fund tax, for economic development is like, you know,
playing your flute. But if you really get to the heart of the issue here and you want to throw a half a million
dollars back at the county, that's major dollars back to the taxpayer, back to the businesses in this county
that's paying those taxes and its only Queensbury money. Queensbury's money, a way to get back to the
taxpayer. When you look at your estimated tax revenue and then you look at reality in terms of tax
revenue, it's no joke that you know, you figure high or you figure low and you collect high, and that's got to
be at least a five to ten percent difference between what you estimate and what you receive. And I'm being
very conservative, right Henry?
MR. HESS, Comptroller-This year could be as high as ten percent, it won't be higher.
MR. CHAMP AGNE-I don't want to go on and belabor this thing but I would like to have you seriously
consider this move at this time in order to save Fred Champagne and the other taxpayers in the Town of
Queensbury their dollars that they paid for over the course of time. If you want to build bigger and better,
whatever, do it but it bond it and let the next generation that's going to benefit from this, enjoy it.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-How come you never left any money with the county when you were in my
seat?
MR. CHAMP AGNE- Y ou know why, let me tell you why, cause I had two votes, just as you've got here
tonight, sir. I had two votes and I was unable to get the third and I worked really, really hard at it and I was
one of the two but unfortunately, we weren't able to pull that third vote. If Ted was here, he'd tell you the
same thing.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Fred, is it true, I had heard that Queensbury did leave money at the county at one
point in a previous administration.
MR. CHAMP AGNE-Oh, yes.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Mike Brandt did, right?
MR. CHAMP AGNE- I better not say, I don't know that.
COUNCILMAN STEC-I thought it was Mike.
MR. CAIMANO, Supervisor At Large-I think you're right.
COUNCILMAN STEC-I thought it was a half a million. I agree with what Nick said, that somewhere
there's a number that balances us and clearly, it's probably not exactly a million dollars, it may be less.
MR. CHAMPAGNE-Don't put yourselves out on a shoe string but with seven million dollars that you're
sitting on, you might want to at least consider it.
MR. HESS, Comptroller-Fred just brought up some numbers that are fresh in everybody's mind, can I take
a couple of minutes to just throw some numbers out because the debate might go on for a while and we
should deal with some numbers that are very current. The current general fund balance is two point one
million dollars, that's the current available fund balance in the general fund. In the Economic Assistance
fund there's a hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars, that's earmarked for economic development
projects. There's six hundred and eight thousand dollars in the Recreation Reserve that is earmarked for
specific spending plans. There's a hundred thousand dollars in the Highway Garage Reserve that was set
aside over the years for work to be done on that building. There's two million five hundred and eighty-one
thousand dollars in the CIP, the Capital Improvement Reserve that the Town Board had set aside last year,
the eighty-one thousand being the interest earnings on that since the time that it ws put aside. There's a
storage building reserve that had been set up which the money will be used for, to some degree, I would
imagine the storage facility we're going to move on Sunnyside but there's a hundred and seventeen
thousand dollars. There's a reserve in the Ward 1 for road and drainage for four hundred and eleven
thousand dollars. Now, the sum of those numbers is six million, one thirty-seven and that's what we're
talking about when we're talking about the approximate seven million dollars. It had been seven million
two last year, we increased it but you also have to remember that in last year's budget, and I don't know that
we'll do anything differently this year, last year's budget we appropriated two million dollars of fund
balance to balance the budget last year. In other words, we underestimated sales tax to some degree but we
also appropriated two million dollars of fund balance to balance the budget. Now, that's not to say that this
shouldn't be considered but when you're talking about he reserve of seven point two or seven million
dollars, its six point one and most of it is allocated in some way by prior action of town boards. The actual
general fund balance is two million one forty-two of which I expect in this year's budget you'll appropriate
two million dollars to balance next year's budget. So, that's, there just numbers you need to know when
you consider this.
COUNCILMAN STEC-So, Henry, you're saying at the end of last year, the un-appropriate general fund
balance was four point seven million dollars?
MR. HESS, Comptroller-Four point five.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Alright because
MR. HESS, Comptroller-Four point two four one.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Alright, because I'm the one that's throwing around the seven point two million
dollars based on an e-mail that I got from your office on June 21st that un-appropriate general fund balance
was four point seven million dollars and the CIP fund balance was two point five million dollars in addition
of the general fund balance, that's where I got my seven point two.
MR. HESS, Comptroller-Okay, we have, the numbers that I was reading to you were out of the most
current financial statement which has just been published within, was published last week with last year's
adjustments and so I'm, we're just, we published, in fact everybody should have gotten, everybody on the
board should have gotten the new and that's what I'm reading from. We're not intending to deceive
anybody and I'm merely not intending to dissuade anybody from considering cause I think it should be
considered, I think it should be evaluated and there's possibly a formula, I agree with Nick Caimano, I think
there's a formula that could probably endure, being an enduring give back but the numbers under surface
require exploration not necessarily that we have a million dollars to give away that we won't need in this
year's budget process.
MRS. KATHLEEN SALVADOR-Referred to the library issue and thanked Mr. Hess for forwarding the
requested information to her... That information was the registration and taxation transaction statistics for
the tax years 1993,2001, for the Crandall Library. It appears for the tax years 2000 and 2001 the number
of registrations remained basically the same. That is for tax year 2000, there were eighty-eight hundred
registrations and tax year 2001, there were eighty-eight thirty-four for the Town of Queensbury. The total
registrations for all three towns and registrations outside of the taxing district for those years was thirty-one
thousand three hundred and fifty-four for 2000 and thirty thousand nine hundred and twenty-seven for
2001. Basically we can see the trend in total registrations was fairly flat for the tax years between 1993 and
2001 ranging between twenty-six thousand to thirty-two thousand with a peak of thirty-two thousand in
1998 and then a tendency to drop to thirty thousand in 2001 and then mraculously registrations increased to
forty-seven thousand nine hundred and fifteen per the Crandall Library 2001 annual report, a fifty-six
percent increase. Of these, it's interesting to note that thirty-six percent of the total registrations report
represent library users outside of the taxing district. We district residents are therefore required to pay the
difference. There has been virtually no increase in registrations in the Town of Queensbury between tax
year 1995 and tax year 2001 hovering in the area of eighty-eight hundred. The Crandall Library 2001
annual report shows total registrations in tax year 2002 at forty-seven thousand nine fifteen, compared to
thirty thousand nine hundred and twenty-seven in the tax year 2001, again a fifty-six percent increase.
However, an interesting point is, that transactions for that time period increased a mere one percent... So,
as you can see the 2001 Annual Report Data of the Crandall Library reveals a quantum leap in registrations
with no corresponding icrease in transactions. Is there an explanation regarding this? What justifies an
operating budget? I would think it would be transactions and not registrations. Any idea when we can
expect to get the operating budget for next year? Next year's operating budget should not be appreciably
higher then this year since the number of transactions was only marginally increased. Mr. Supervisor, do
we have a status of the RFP on the expansion? Has it been awarded? What is the cost of the expansion and
when will the ballot proposition be forthcoming and is there any idea as to how this is going to be
financed? In May, I asked if you were aware of the fact that the Town Board must approve all ballot
propositions a fully sixty days prior to the election. In fact then, the only time Queensbury residents have a
chance for any public input before the library budget amount to be levied against them is placed on the
ballot for the Town Board would be during an open forum held at a Town Board meeting at least sixty ays
prior to election day. That's fast approaching, probably September 1, thereabouts. Thank you.
MR. JOHN SALVADOR-It sounds like the library is doing something we call registration farming. A
fifty-six percent increase in the number oflibrary registrations and a one percent increase in transactions,
that's doesn't equate. Is there some way we can audit this? Our tax burden, our tax share on the library is
partly a function of the number of library registrations in this town as compared to the other two
municipalities. We have to know the accuracy of it, and we have to know the accuracy of the relationship
between us and the other two communities. It bears heavily on our tax burden... Referred to the workshop
that was promised to Mr. Tucker on the Division Road issue and recommended that because of the
seriousness of this subject, it warrants a special meeting, a special meeting with the people who are
involved, who brought this project to the position it's in now, be available. I have looked at the record of
the subdivision approval, the map that was filed, the deeds that have been cut, and I seeserious problems.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-What subdivision?
MR. SALVADOR-Good question. The map on file at the county is a subdivision, a map of a proposed
subdivision made for Beaverkill Conservancy, Inc. They didn't even own the land when this map was
made.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-The Town Board doesn't do subdivisions, the Planning Board does.
MR. SALVADOR -You're going to review the issue of that road connecting Division Road and Ogden
Road and this is the key to it... I think the town is on it's way to accepting from the Beaverkill Conservancy
who I guess now owns a portion of the land, that land. The Beaverkill Conservancy took that land in a
bargain and sale deed. What are you going to accept? Are you going to accept anything less then a
warrantee deed on a parcel ofland that has been known to have been a dump site? If you look at the
subdivision ordinance and what's required on a plan, this is woefully inadequate, it's inaccurate. My point
tonight is that I think we have some serious problems here and before we go much further and the taxpayer
takes on the burden of parkland, if you will, we better know what we're doing.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-And I certainly think that we will know what we're doing before we do it.
MR. SALVADOR-All I'm here for tonight is to frame a workshop session, we have to have people at that
workshop that can answer questions, by putting together an agenda and having the right people present. It
involves your Highway Superintendent, your Community Development Director, your Recreation Director,
these people should be there otherwise it's just a waste of time and we don't want to waste Mr. Tucker's
time. Can we have an agenda? Can we have the proper people present?
SUPERVISOR BROWER-The appropriate people will be there.
MR. SALVADOR-And it's scheduled for?
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Wednesday, the 28th of August.
MR. JOHN STROUGH, 7 Hillcrest Drive-Referred to today's paper where it read the State okay's four
hundred and fifty K for Exit 18. The plans referring to Main Street, four hundred and fifty thousand dollars
grant enhancement will pay for construction of park and ride facility, bike trail connection to the Feeder
Canal, and gateway plaza, signs and possibly an information kiosk to welcome new visitors. Great. Good
job Chris, good job Town Board, thank you.
SUPERVISOR BROWER -Yea, we're pretty excited about that T2l application having been approved.
MR. CAIMANO, Supervisor at Large-Thanks for the Supervisor of the Town Board, there is now an
appropriation request and it is the number one for next year for the Feds to come up with the money to bury
the electrical lines.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-We've requested a combination of funding, we've requested multi model
funding and we've requested an appropriation from Congressman Sweeney's Office... Today, I met with
Congressman Sweeney, actually relating to the T2l funding but we also did discuss the underground power
situation. So, I was very pleased that we could meet with Congressman and thank you, Nick for setting that
up.
OPEN FORUM CLOSED
RESOLUTIONS
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING TIM BURCH TO CARRY OVER FIVE DAYS OF UNUSED
VACATION TIME
RESOLUTION NO.: 333, 2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, Tim Burch, Water Department Maintenance Distribution Supervisor, has requested
Town Board authorization to carry over five (5) days of unused vacation time beyond his September 1st,
2002 employment anniversary date, and
WHEREAS, the Town Water Superintendent has advised that Mr. Burch will be unable to use his
vacation time prior to September 1st, 2002 as the Water Department is busy installing a new water main on
Fifth Street Extension and therefore the Water Superintendent has recommended that the Town Board
approve Mr. Burch's request to carry over such vacation time,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes Tim Burch to carry over five (5)
days of vacation time past Mr. Burch's September 1st, 2002 employment anniversary date, with the
condition that Mr. Burch utilize such vacation time by September 30, 2002.
Duly adopted this 19th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Stec
NOES
None
ABSENT:
Mr. Turner
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING HIRING OF PATRICIA VAUGHN AS TEMPORARY, PART-TIME
LABORER FOR TOWN WATER DEPARTMENT
RESOLUTION NO.: 334, 2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, the Town Water Superintendent has requested Town Board authorization to hire a
temporary, part -time Laborer to make daily inspections at Shore Colony to meet New York State
Department of Health requirements,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the hiring of Patricia
Vaughn as a temporary, part-time Laborer to work for the Town Water Department to make daily
inspections at Shore Colony to meet New York State Department of Health requirements, effective August
20th, 2002, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that Ms. Vaughn shall be paid $10.80 per hour as set forth in Town Board
Resolution No.: 490,2001 to be paid from the appropriate payroll account, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Water Superintendent, Town
Comptroller and/or Town Supervisor's Office to complete any forms and take any action necessary to
effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 19th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer
NOES
None
ABSENT:
Mr. Turner
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ENGAGEMENT OF JIM GIRARD LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE
CORPORATION FOR MOWING WORK AT TOWN LANDFILL ON RIDGE ROAD FOR YEARS
2003-2005
RESOLUTION NO.: 335, 2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED FOR IT'S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
Town Board held discussion, questioned whether this action had already been done and agreed to pull
resolution until researched to verify whether board had previously acted on this resolution.
RESOLUTION TO AMEND 2002 BUDGET
RESOLUTION NO.: 335, 2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, the attached Budget Amendment Requests have been duly initiated and justified and
are deemed compliant with Town operating procedures and accounting practices by the Town Comptroller,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Comptroller's Office to take all action necessary to transfer funds and amend the 2002 Town Budget as
follows:
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT:
FROM:
TO:
$ AMOUNT:
01-8010-4090
(Conference/Zoning Office)
01-3620-4090
((Conference/Bldg & Codes)
$ 500
01-8020-4410
(Fuel/Planning Office)
01-8010-4410
(Fuel/Zoning Office)
$ 200
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT:
FROM:
TO:
$ AMOUNT:
01-9950-9013 013-0013-5031 $150,000 (Trans To)
(Trans From)
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY:
FROM: TO: $ AMOUNT:
01-1680-1043-0002 01-1680-1042-0002 $ 1,000 (Comp.
Tech. Asst. OT)
01-1680-2032 01-1680-4335 2,500
(Computer Software) (Soft Subscription)
Duly adopted this 19th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Boor, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES
None
ABSENT:
Mr. Turner
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING TRANSFER OF BAY RIDGE VOLUNTEER FIRE COMPANY, INC.
STATION NO.1 LOCATED ON SUNNYSIDE ROAD, QUEENSBURY TO TOWN OF QUEENSBURY
RESOLUTION NO.: 336, 2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury and the Bay Ridge Volunteer Fire Company, Inc. (Fire
Company) previously contracted for fire protection services and such Agreement is in full force and effect,
and
WHEREAS, such Agreement provided that upon completion and occupancy of the Fire
Company's new firehouse on the east side of Bay Road, the Town would have full and exclusive use of the
Fire Company's Fire Station No. 1 on Sunnyside Road, and
WHEREAS, construction and occupancy of the Fire Company's new facility is complete and the
Fire Company wishes to transfer Fire Station No. 1 to the Town and has provided the Town with a
proposed deed and title acceptable to Town Counsel, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board has determined that acceptance of Fire Station NO.1 will benefit
Town residents and therefore the Board wishes to authorize acceptance of Fire Station No.1,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves and accepts for Town purposes, the transfer of
Bay Ridge Volunteer Fire Company, Inc. 's Fire Station No. 1 located on Sunnyside Road in the Town of
Queensbury to the Town of Queensbury, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs Town Counsel to prepare and the
Town Supervisor to execute any and all documents necessary to complete this transaction including a
Deed, Real Property Transfer Report and Capital Gains Affidavit in form acceptable to Town Counsel and
take such other and further action as may be necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 19th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor
NOES None
ABSENT: Mr. Turner
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ENGAGEMENT OF EMPIRE STATE APPRAISAL CONSULTANTS,
INC. TO PREPARE APPRAISAL IN CONNECTION WITH ARTICLE 7 ASSESSMENT CASES
COMMENCED BY QUAKER VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT CORP. (LOWES HOME CENTERS, INC.)
RESOLUTION NO.: 337, 2002
INTRODUCED BY:
Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury is engaged in litigation with Quaker Village Development
Corporation (Lowes' Home Centers, Inc.), regarding real property tax assessments on the Lowes' Home
Center property for the years 2001 and 2002, and
WHEREAS, the total assessed value of the property for each of the years in question is
approximately $8,729,000 and the tax amounts in dispute are substantial and could result in significant
refunds to the property owners if the Petitioners prevail in the litigation, and
WHEREAS, the firm of Empire State Appraisal Consultants, Inc. (ESAC) is a reputable and
established appraisal company, with 27 years of experience, including extensive experience in appraising
large commercial properties, and
WHEREAS, ESAC has appraised other commercial property for the Town and its performance
and services have been entirely satisfactory and have materially contributed to the ability of the Town to
settle past tax assessment litigation without the need for trial, and
WHEREAS, ESAC has proposed to prepare preliminary and final appraisals for the Town's use in
settlement discussions and litigation, with its fee for the preliminary appraisal not to exceed $3,500 and its
fee for a final, trial-ready appraisal, if necessary, not to exceed $3,500 (for a total of $7,000), with the costs
of ESAC's work to be shared equally by the Town and the Queensbury Union Free School District and
WHEREAS, the attorney representing the Queensbury Union Free School District will
recommend that the School Board approve retaining ESAC to perform the needed appraisal work on the
stated terms, with the costs to be shared equally by the Town and the School District, and such approval by
the School Board is expected, and
WHEREAS the Assessor and Town Counsel recommend that ESAC be retained to provide the
necessary appraisal services on the proposed terms, with the cost to be divided equally between the Town
and the Queensbury Union Free School District,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes engagement of Empire State
Appraisal Consultants, Inc. (ESAC) to prepare a preliminary appraisal and, if necessary, a final appraisal of
the Quaker Village Development Corporation (Lowes' Home Centers, Inc.) property for the Town's use in
property tax assessment litigation, with the cost for such preliminary appraisal not to exceed $3,500 and the
cost of a final appraisal, if necessary, not to exceed $3,500 (for a total of $7,000), which costs shall be
divided equally between the Town and the Queensbury Union Free School District, with the Town's portion
to be paid from the Assessor's Department Article 7 Account No.: 001-1355-4740, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Assessor, Town Counsel and/or
Town Supervisor to take any action necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 19th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Stec
NOES
None
ABSENT
Mr. Turner
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING SUBMISSION OF APPLICATION FOR TECHNICAL
ASSISTANCE GRANT FUNDS THROUGH NEW YORK STATE ADMINISTERED SMALL CITIES
PROGRAM
RESOLUTION NO.: 338,2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury's Senior Planner has advised the Town Board that the New
York State Governor's Office for Small Cities is accepting applications from eligible communities to
compete for Community Development Technical Assistance Grants available through the New York State
Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) Small Cities Program, and,
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to submit a Technical Assistance Grant application to
address its Community Development needs in the form of a Strategic Plan, and
WHEREAS, it is the intent of the Town Board to officially adopt and implement such plan upon
its completion, and
WHEREAS, funds to develop a Community Development Strategic Plan were not budgeted for
Fiscal Year 2002, and
WHEREAS, the Town will provide a 40% match with in-kind services,
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs submission of the
Town of Queensbury's application for Community Development Technical Assistance Grants available
through the New York State Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) Small Cities Program, such
technical assistance funds to be for an amount not to exceed $25,000, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to sign any
necessary documents in connection with the submission, including all applications, certifications and forms
and further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor and Community Development Department to take
such other and further action as may be necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 19th day of August, 2002 by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer
NOES
None
ABSENT: Mr. Turner RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING REVENUE & EXPENSE ACCOUNTS
CONCERNING NEW YORK STATE SMALL CITIES PROGRAM COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
BLOCK GRANT FUNDS RECEIVED FROM NEW YORK STATE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE FOR
SMALL CITIES
RESOLUTION NO.: 339, 2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, by Town Board Resolution No.: 395,2001, the Queensbury Town Board approved of
a Grant Agreement between the Town and New York State Housing Trust Fund Corporation represented by
the Governor's Office for Small Cites, established CDBG Grant Fund #16 and set appropriations and
estimated revenues in the amount of $400,000 for the $400,000 in New York State Small Cities Program
Community Development Block Grant funds received by the Town, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to now establish the appropriate revenue and expense
accounts related to such Grant funds,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Comptroller's Office to take all action necessary to establish:
1. Revenue Account No.: 016-0016-4789 - Other Economic Assistance and Opportunities - $400,000;
2. Expense Account No.: 016-8668-4720 - Consultant Fees - $69,500;
3. Expense Account No.: 016-8668-4400 - Misc. Contractual- $5,000; and
4. Expense Account No.: 016-8668-4708 - Housing Revitalization - $325,500;
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Comptroller's Office to
transfer funds and amend the 2002 Town Budget as may be necessary and take and all action necessary to
effectuate all terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 19th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Boor, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES
None
ABSENT:
Mr. Turner
ORDER SETTING PUBLIC HEARING FOR PROPOSED EXTENSION NO.7 TO CENTRAL
QUEENSBURY QUAKER ROAD SEWER DISTRICT - -SOUTHERN BAY ROAD CORRIDOR
RESOLUTION NO.: 340, 2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board wishes to establish an extension to the Central
Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District to include the southern Bay Road Corridor to be known as Central
Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District Extension No.7, and
WHEREAS, a Map, Plan and Report has been prepared by Thomas W. Nace, P.E., an engineer,
licensed by the State of New York regarding the proposed extension to the existing Central Queensbury
Quaker Road Sewer District to serve the southern Bay Road Corridor, such area including the Baybrook
Professional Park on the east side of Bay Road consisting of 12 approved office lots and 3 approved
residential/professional building lots, the Baybridge Townhouse development currently comprised of 14
attached Townhouses containing 64 dwelling units and 22 detached single family structures making a total
community of 86 active housing units, the 48 unit Baybrook Apartment complex on the north side of
Walker Lane, one individual residence presently utilizing on-site septic and two commercial facilities
presently connected to the existing sewer system as contract users, the Glens Falls Ballet Center on Bay
Road and the Bay Meadows Golf Course on Cronin Road, such parcels bearing Tax Map No. 's: 296.58-1-
49, 296.11-1-28, 296.5-1-27, 296.15-1-19 and 296.16-1-2, as more specifically set forth and described in
the Map, Plan and Report, and
WHEREAS, the Map, Plan and Report has been accepted as the Map, Plan and Report and has
been filed in the Queensbury Town Clerk's Office and is available for public inspection, and
WHEREAS, the Map, Plan and Report delineates the boundaries of the proposed sewer district
extension, a general plan of the proposed sewer system, a report of the proposed sewer system and method
of operation, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to establish the proposed sewer extension in accordance with
Town Law Article l2A and consolidate the extension with the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer
District in accordance with Town Law ~206A, and
WHEREAS, Part I of an Environmental Assessment Form has been prepared and presented at this
meeting and a coordinated SEQRA review is desired,
NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS
ORDERED:
1. The Town Board shall hold a public hearing and consider establishing the proposed
extension to the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District previously described in this Resolution
and to be known as the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District Extension NO.7.
The boundaries of the proposed extension and benefitted areas of the Central Queensbury Quaker Road
Sewer District are to be as delineated in Exhibit B of the previously described Map, Plan and Report.
3. The proposed improvements consist of construction of new gravity sewers, pump station
and force main as specifically delineated in the Map, Plan and Report and the cost shall also include a buy-
in to the City of Glens Falls Wastewater Treatment Plant due at the time of initial hook-up.
4. All costs of construction, legal and engineering fees shall be shared by all users within
the proposed Sewer District Extension #7 in accordance with a formula delineated in the Map, Plan and
Report and shall be constructed and installed in full accordance with the Town of Queensbury's
specifications, ordinances or local laws, and any State laws or regulations, and in accordance with approved
plans and specifications and under competent engineering supervision.
5. The maximum cost for the Sewer District Extension improvements will be $319,676.
The Town's maximum cost for 76,000 gallons of excess capacity will be $142,293. In addition, new
members of the Sewer District Extension will be charged a $1.00 per gallon fee for Glens Falls Wastewater
Treatment Plant capacity. The areas or properties that comprise the extension will be subject to the same
cost for operation, maintenance and capital improvements as in the Central Queensbury Quaker Road
Sewer District.
6. The estimated cost of hook-up fees to the typical property will be $0. The estimated
annual cost of the extension to the typical property (which is the typical one or two family residence in the
proposed District) will be $298.08 and approximately $60 for sewer rents; the total estimated annual cost
for such typical property is $360.
7. In accordance with Town Law ~206-a, all future expenses of the Central Queensbury
Quaker Road Sewer District, including all extensions included heretofore or hereafter established, shall be
a charge against the entire area of the district as extended.
8. The Map, Plan and Report describing the improvements and area involved and a detailed
explanation of how the hook-up fees and the cost of the District to the typical property, and, if different, the
typical one or two family home was computed are on file with the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury
and available for public inspection.
9. The Town Board shall meet and hold a public hearing at the Queensbury Activities
Center, 742 Bay Road, Queensbury at 7:00 p.m., on Monday, September 9th, 2002 to consider the Map,
Plan and Report and to hear all persons interested in the proposal and to take such other and further action
as may be required or authorized by law.
10. The Town Board will proceed with considering the extension and hold such public
hearing only if Schermerhorn Construction L.L. C. prior to such hearing executes an agreement drafted by
Town Counsel concerning the extension.
11. The Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Queensbury Town Clerk to duly
publish and post this Order not less than ten (10) days nor more than twenty (20) days before the public
hearing date, as required by Town Law ~209-d, and complete or arrange for the securing of two (2)
Affidavits of Publication of Notice and two (2) Affidavits of Posting of Notice of the Public Hearing
required hereby and to file a certified copy of this Order with the State Comptroller on or about the date of
publication.
12. The Town of Queensbury Community Development Department is hereby requested to
prepare a report on any environmental impacts that should be considered at the time a SEQRA review is
conducted.
13. The Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Community Development Department
to send a copy of this Resolution, Part I of the Environmental Assessment Form presented at this meeting
and a copy of the Map, Plan and Report to all potentially involved agencies and to the New York State
Department of Environmental Conservation and New York State Department of Health together with all
documentation to be sent out with a letter indicating that the Town Board is about to undertake
consideration of the project identified in this Resolution, that a coordinated SEQRA review with the
Queensbury Town Board as Lead Agency is desired and that a Lead Agency must be agreed upon within
30 days.
Duly adopted this 19th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor
NOES
None
ABSENT:
Mr. Turner
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ENGAGEMENT OF JARRETT -MARTIN ENGINEERS, PLLC FOR
CONSTRUCTION PHASE SERVICES IN CONNECTION WITH SOUTH QUEENSBURY-
QUEENSBURY AVENUE SEWER DISTRICT
RESOLUTION NO.: 341, 2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 408,2001, the Queensbury Town Board authorized engagement
of Jarrett-Martin Engineers, PLLC for design phase services concerning creation of the South Queensbury -
Queensbury Avenue Sewer District, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to authorize engagement of Jarrett-Martin Engineers, PLLC
for construction phase services set forth in Jarrett-Martin's August 14th, 2002 Professional Services
Agreement presented at this meeting as follows:
Task Projected Hours Projected Costs
Bidding Administration
Observation 1180
Drawings/Certification
2,000
128 $ 6,900 Technical Submittals
54,000 Construction Administration
48 2)00 Contingency 170
64 3,200 Construction
280 14,500 Record
6,500 Miscellaneous Expenses
Total Estimated Fees/Expenses
1870 hours
$89,400
and
WHEREAS, the form of the Professional Services Agreement is presented at this meeting and is
in form acceptable to Town Counsel,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs engagement of
Jarrett-Martin Engineers, PLLC for construction phase services concerning the South Queensbury -
Queensbury Avenue Sewer District as more specifically set forth in Jarrett-Martin's August 14th, 2002
Professional Services Agreement presented at this meeting and as follows:
Task Projected Hours Projected Costs
Bidding Administration
Observation 1180
Drawings/Certification
2,000
128 $ 6,900 Technical Submittals
54,000 Construction Administration
48 2)00 Contingency 170
64 3,200 Construction
280 14,500 Record
6,500 Miscellaneous Expenses
Total Estimated Fees/Expenses
1870 hours
$89,400
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town Comptroller's Office to
take all actions necessary to transfer funds and amend the 2002 Town Budget by appropriating Fund
Balance to cover this $89,400 expense, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs that payment for these services in
a total amount not to exceed $89,400 shall be paid for from the appropriate General Fund Account, such
amount to be refunded in full to the General Fund by future Sewer District users upon creation of the Sewer
District, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that neither Jarrett-Martin Engineers, PLLC nor its project team shall begin work on
the construction fees portion of this Project until it receives express written authorization to do so from
either the Queensbury Town Supervisor, Wastewater Director and/or Wastewater Deputy Director, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor,
Wastewater Director and/or Wastewater Deputy Director to execute the Professional Services Agreement
and any other documentation and take such other and further action as may be necessary to effectuate the
terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 19th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Stec
NOES
None
ABSENT:
Mr. Turner
RESOLUTION REQUESTING AND AUTHORIZING WARREN COUNTY TO RETAIN SALES TAX
REVENUES AND OFFSET PROPERTY TAXES
RESOLUTION NO.: 342, 2002
DEFEATED
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, Warren County receives sales tax revenues resulting from sales transactions that take
place within the County, and
WHEREAS, a substantial portion of those sales transactions take place within the Town of
Queensbury, and
WHEREAS, portions of the Warren County sales tax revenues are allocated to each of the towns
in Warren County on an annual basis, and
WHEREAS, County sales tax revenues allocated to the Town of Queensbury annually fall in the
range of several million dollars, and
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury currently maintains a general fund balance and capital
reserve fund balance totaling approximately $7.2 million dollars, and
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board believes that taxation of its constituents should be
minimized to the extent possible, while still maintaining reasonable fund balances for long-range planning,
emergency and contingency purposes, and
WHEREAS, New York State Tax Law ~ 1262 authorizes the Town to request that the County
withhold sales tax revenues allocated to the Town and use such revenues to offset local taxes, and
WHEREAS, New York State Tax Law ~ 1262 authorizes the County to withhold such revenues for
the next succeeding calendar year upon appropriate requests from the Town properly filed with the County
prior to September 1st of the current year, and
WHEREAS, Chapter 528 of the Laws of 2000 (in Town Law ~ 107) provides that towns may have
a budget which includes a "reasonable amount" of unappropriated unreserved fund balances, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board has determined that the current unappropriated, unreserved fund
balance exceeds such "reasonable amount" and wants to take action to avoid this from occurring in the
2003 Town Budget, and
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board has already eliminated the general Town property tax
and now seeks to reduce the general County property tax in the Town of Queensbury,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby requests and authorizes Warren County to
retain one-million dollars ($1,000,000) of Warren County sales tax revenues allocated to the Town of
Queensbury in 2003 and utilize such revenues to offset the corresponding portion of 2003 County property
taxes to the residents of the Town of Queensbury, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Clerk to file a certified
copy of this Resolution with the Chief Fiscal Officer of Warren County by mailing such Resolution by
registered or certified mail before September 1st, 2002 in order to take effect for the calendar year 2003,
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that this request and authorization shall remain in effect for the year 2003, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Clerk, Town
Supervisor and/or Town Comptroller to provide any other required documentation to Warren County prior
to September 1st, 2002 and take any and all other action necessary to effectuate all terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 19th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer
NOES
Mr. Boor
ABSENT:
Mr. Turner
ABSTAIN:
Mr. Brower
DISCUSSION BEFORE VOTE:
SUPERVISOR BROWER-I can't recall exactly when Mr. Stec brought this forward but it was a couple of
weeks ago.
COUNCILMAN STEC-It was July 1st, Dennis. July 1st.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-And certainly, it was under councilmen's concerns. We have not had an
opportunity to have a workshop session even on this proposal, a proposal that would leave a million dollars
in fund balance at the county. Without having a thorough financial analysis as to the impact on the town, is
disturbing to me. I think we would be remiss if we didn't have a complete financial analysis done as we
would with any project that would cost a million dollars or more of taxpayer's money. We do have our
capital improvement plan which we funded, to date, to the point of two point five million dollars plus
interest as you're heard this evening. However, the capital improvement plan for projected expenditures
over the next six years, by adding up department totals is fifteen million, six hundred sixteen thousand
dollars. Certainly, all those projects will not most likely be funded by this Town Board or succeeding
Town Board. However, they're important enough to managers to have placed them on their capitl
improvement plan along with, of course including, including sewer and water projects which are funded by
special districts within the town and the town would mainly need cash flow to finance the construction of
them initially and they would eventually be paid back over time. I view the capital improvement plan the
Town Board passed this past year as one of the most important things the town has done in many years,
planning for the future capital needs of the town and insuring our taxpayers that we won't have, hopefully
spikes in the need to raise tax in the future. One of my other concerns is that Mr. Hess in last year's budget
analysis that was a public meeting right here in this building, indicated that with the current spending levels
the town would need to increase it's sales tax revenue by five point three percent over the next several years
to avoid re-instituting the town tax which we eliminated effective last year. Certainly, I thought that was a
great thing that we were able to do and I'd hate t have to re-implement that tax in the future. In conjunction
with my concerns is the continuing concern over terrorism in our country. We've been very blessed that we
haven't had another attack in our country since September 11th of last year but I think we're all aware to a
heightened extent that we're potentially vulnerable in our country and should we have further attacks, I
don't know what effect it would have on tourism in our county and in our own community. I'm not sure
what effect it would have on the nation. I can tell you that the last attack has had significant repercussions
within the states, thirty states have declining sales tax revenues this year as opposed to increasing revenues.
And maybe I'm a little too cautious but at this point in time, I don't believe I have enough information to
make an adequate decision for letting the county retain fund balance. Do I think we should look at it,
seriously? Yes, I do. But like any major expenditure, I would look at it for next year's budgeting, ot this
year's budgeting and if the board believes that we can indeed reserve some money at the county to offset
county taxes, I might very well be in favor of it but not before we have had an opportunity to analyze the
effect of eliminating that money. Mr. Hess did point out some, some very important points regarding the
existing fund balance. I believe it's one point two million dollars is reserved for the landfill closure. Now,
that may seem small to some but that landfill closure money may be needed some day if we have
contaminated, if we ever get contaminated wells and thank God we haven't to date, we may need to run
emergency waterlines to the area, the affected area. That would cost multimillions, multimillions. Matter
of fact, I don't have that specific number but I know it would be in excess of what we've reserved for the
landfill closure to date. Matter of fact, that's one of the reasons why we haven't, in addition to providing for
mowing services on a yearly basis, that landfill closure moneyis there more or less as a, I call it an
emergency fund in case we need to utilize it for those residents that might be impacted. The storage
building which we took care of tonight, which is the Bay Ridge Fire Company at Sunnyside is going to be
an important addition to the town. We were going to construct a facility right here on town property and it
was going to cost over two hundred thousand dollars, I believe was the projection. In any case, I'm a little
bit hesitant to make a commitment this year, prior to September 1st for reserving money at the county at
this time, but that's my feeling.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Alright, first of all, I did an outline some time ago when I thought this was going
to come to resolution form and when it wasn't brought up in workshops, I kind of put it away thinking the
votes weren't there so we weren't, it wasn't going to come to this. I was wrong and I prefer to speak off the
cuff but since I have this thing written, I'll read it. I'm not that good at reading it but I think the message
will be quite clear as far as where I stand. Without a doubt, discussion is needed and appropriate with
regards to currently, funds currently held by the town. How much of our reserve is really surplus, how
much of this reserve is prudent savings for known capital improvement projects? If we're looking for a
legitimate criticism, then my take would be that as a board, we have not done a very good job of allocating
the funds to already identified projects, implementing would probably be a better word. It would be easy to
just give the money away, it's quite another thing to show wisdo, financial savvy and initiative. We as a
board need to come to a consensus and collect appropriate revenues at appropriate rates and then spend this
resource efficiently and wisely while at all times, keeping a necessary cushion for the unforeseen. With ten
to fifteen million in costs associated with currently identified improvement projects an argument could be
made that we in fact do not have a surplus but are lacking the necessary funding to satisfied all the projects
currently identified on our capital improvement list. Now, we're certainly not going to do all these at once,
we're probably not going to do them over a five year period but being in a strong financial position or
having a certain reserve is appropriate. As to the specific resolution at hand, government, politicians,
although not cited as often as lawyers, also make deserving subjects for many a joke but governmental
bodies, are best equipped in most apt to do and fund work that benefits the masses, all the residents of the
town and toursts alike. Simply giving monies collected through sales tax to property owners is not going to
improve the Route 9, 254 intersection. It's not going to alleviate traffic congestion at Glen Lake Road and
Route 9 and it's not going to pay for bike trails and improvements scheduled to start next year for the Main
Street Corridor project. And please, let us not forget that we are a tourist based economy. The majority of
our sales tax revenues are coming from people in other states and other countries. To justify this resolution
before us, I and other members of this board are going to have to take a look at this resident, single mother
of three in the eye, the single mother of three who is not a property owner and therefore not entitled to one
dime of this so called refund. The single mother of three who may in fact have a job in the tourist industry,
the very industry that generates the lion share of sales tax. This single mother of three pays as much sales
tax on diapers, gasoline, family ... as their neghbor who might be fortunate enough to own real estate. How
do I tell her she is just out of luck? Where is the equity in this proposal? What do we say to the countless
number of renters who pay sales tax like everyone else but receive none of the bounty of this resolution?
The same residents will be contending with increased traffic as recipients of the Empire Zone status like
Great Escape, double their attendants and therefore create greater negative impacts to our traffic flow. As
one of the largest property holders in the town, do we want to extent yet another tax break to the Great
Escape? Even if this was a good idea, and I don't believe it is, how did we arrive at the one million dollar
amount? I have seen or heard nothing empirical to suggest this amount would leave what would be a
reasonable reserve for the town. The regressive nature of sales tax makes it an unfair source of revenue to
offset property taxes, they are beast of a different color and they are not interchangeable. That's my
thoghts.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Well, I would just say that it's not, the county's budget, as Fred pointed out, is
not all generated from sales tax. How many million was generated from ?
MR. CHAMPAGNE-Seven point two, county wide, two point seven is ours.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Seven point two, county wide. Two point seven of their budget is ours, I think
that's a small portion of their budget. I think if we give the taxpayers a portion of the tax dollars they pay
into the county, I think it's equitable. If the landlord wants to pass it on to his tenants, so be it. Maybe he
wants to make improvements to the homes, that's his choice. I think, when the president did it last year he
did it with taxpayers and I think that's how you have to do it. That mother that rents doesn't pay land tax or
county tax. So, to give us the argument about a mother buying diapers and not entitled to any of this
money is, to me, that's your opinion. My opinion is, I don't think it makes a difference. I think if people
get a, whether the number is a million or a half a million, I think it should be substantial, it doesn't matter to
me either way, I just think it's the right thing to do. The money you talk about that we need to save for the
capital improvements, Roger, I was a bigpart of that. I was at every meeting about that and I mentioned a
couple of weeks ago, we haven't done any of those projects yet and that's okay, some of them are going to
be done. In my mind, I would have thought we would have started doing them in February, March, April
but as Chris pointed out, it takes time to get things done and I understand that and will do them. And I
think for the major part of those projects, they won't come out of that two and a half million dollars. They
may be started with that money, but they'll be bonded, some of that million dollar projects or two million
dollar projects, I think that's something that we'll deal. As far as having seven point two million dollars or
seven million dollars or six million dollars, I don't think we need that much. I think the money is put out in
different places but it's there, if we need it. I don't see any reason why we should keep their money and I
say their money, I mean taxpayer's money. If we give some back, you know, everybody thought he town,
some members of the Town Board thought the town was going to crumble when we gave that eighteen
cents a thousand back last year. We're still here, you know. We made eighty thousand dollars on, I heard
Henry say, on interest on one account. That's a third of the way from that three hundred thousand that we
gave back to the people. I haven't heard anybody bitch at me yet saying, why did you stop charging me
town tax? I think it's justified and I think we can afford to do it and it's not for re-election, Pliney cause
that's next year.
COUNCILMAN STEC-I too have written a prepared statement and hopefully, those who have spoke
before me will pay attention to it because in it I address all of the points that they made because we've
already had this discussion once. And I apologize cause some people are going to question my numbers of
the size of the budget, I was basing it on a June 21st email I got that I, in soliciting this information from
the Comptroller's Office. Taxation played a major role in the events leading to our great nation's formation
and is a central function and responsibility of government from the federal down to the local level. The
debate over how to spend taxpayer's money is an important one but a more important issue and the true
measure as to how we look out for the taxpayer's interests is the debate concerning how much to collect
from the taxpayers in the first place. Last year by the narrowest of margins Queensbury decided to
eliminate the town tax which generated little more then three hundred thousand dollars pr year. At that
time, the same arguments of budget conservatism and the doom and gloom projections of what spending in
sales tax revenues might be in the future were used. Now, a year later, we have the benefit of hindsight to
examine the actual performance over the past year, despite a year long recession and the horrific events of
September 11 th, we must note that in each of the last three quarters, we have realized record sales tax
revenues to Queensbury. When I first took office in January 2000, the general fund surplus stood at around
five million dollars. Today, the unappropriated fund balance is over seven point two million dollars, about
thirty percent of our budget and if you use Fred and Nick's math, it's almost a hundred percent of our
budget, due in large part to overly conservative projections of sales tax revenue. By comparison, school
districts are limited by law to a surplus of two percent. In no time, since 1997 have we underestimated
sales tax receipts by less then six hundred and thiry thousand dollars and in 1999, that year's underestimate
was a whopping one point seven million dollars. Only two years of the past fourteen have seen receipts fall
short of budget. Some may argue that the general fund balance is only four point seven million dollars
since last year we moved two and a half million into a capital reserve fund, and I recall in that discussion at
that time, a comment was made, that an auditor might frown on a large general fund reserve and that the
establishment of a capital projects fund would mitigate any criticism. Now, in mid August, we have yet to
use a nickel of the capital project's fund. Some may also argue that the town has many millions of dollars
of project to perform and so needs a large reserve. To that I say, for most of these projects, they are special
district projects which can not be funded from the general fund. For those that can be, I remind all that has
been policy, that we finance a major capital investment over years so that those who benefit by th use of the
capital improvement over the years finance it over it's life, a policy that I agree with. Some have argued
that it is not fair to pass back a rebate on property taxes only to property owners and not renters. This is a
very weak argument and of course, a landlord must pay property taxes and that comes from the rent
payments. Perhaps, the landlord will choose to pass on savings to his tenants or if not, perhaps this avoids
a rent increase or an improvement to the property might be made. In fact, the law provides for this very
rebate on property taxes cause it's the fairest way to do so. I'd ask board members to consider three
questions before we vote tonight. First, consider who we were elected to represent and serve. Of course,
this is the residents and taxpayers of Queensbury. Second, what is the will of these people? I have talked
to many dozens of people in the public including most of the current Queensbury Warren County
Supervisors and many past Town Supervisors and Council Members. Without exception, without exception
every one of these people were supportive of using one million dollars of our seven million dollar surplus
to rebate against Queensbury resident's county property taxes. In fact, many of them asked why not a two
or three million dollar rebate. It seems that the only handful of people in Queensbury that don't think this is
a good idea are in the room to my left tonight. Third, I'd ask you to consider the most important question,
whose money are we talking about? To vote against this modest and conservative rebate is a kin to saying
that the taxpayers are children and can not be trusted with their own money and that government is a better
custodian of their hard earned dollars then they are. I don't believe there's ever been much evidence that, at
any level of government, that that's true. The worst case scenario would be that the surplus would fall to
six point two million dollars. If in the future, the town determines it needs more money, then at that time, it
shoul present it's case to the people and ask for the funding. If there's truly a need, the people will
understand and support the collection. In the meantime, while we have a seven point two million dollar
surplus, let's do the right thing and give back some of those to whom it belongs, our taxpayers.
Furthermore, for the record, in rebuttal, this was brought up at the July 1st Regular Town Board Meeting. I
have an email back and forth from late July that there was concern that maybe some analysis was needed
and I said, I endorsed performing the analysis. But I think it's incumbent on all the board members, if they
have questions, to go and do their homework. I've done my homework and I'm comfortable with my vote
tonight. I think this is ridiculous, this is a no brainer. And further more, I view that the opening statements
that were made about it not being appropriate because an adequate analysis has not been done, although, a
five year old could do the math, is that this is a convenient attempt to avoid n embarrassing vote tonight.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Dan, on a calmer note, your fourth paragraph, you understand it is sales tax not
property taxes what we're talking about here.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Yes.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-You say, some have argued that it's not fair to pass back a rebate on property taxes
only to property owners, we're talking about sales tax to property owners.
COUNCILMAN STEC-On their property taxes.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I know but we're talking about sales tax which, if we were to actually return it,
we'd be sending it to forty-nine states and other countries. Okay?
COUNCILMAN STEC-Roger, part of the benefit of collecting a sales tax though, is that that offsets the
burden of the local residents from the traffic and all the other inconveniences that we have.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-That's how I would like to use it is to improve the general public, the renters and
the property owners alike.
COUNCILMAN STEC-We had the attorney do the, I had the attorney do the research and thank you Bob,
for acting on less then a consensus of the board, that I'd like this researched and this is what their legal
research turned up, that this is the way to do this. If we want to do it in New York State, this is how you do
this. I don't deny that would be nice to cut everyone an equal size check. There would be people that
would argue that that's not fair. So, I'm going to go on what the laws of the State of New York say and this
is how they say to do this.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-This is a way to do this legally. It's not the way to do it. This is your choice of
how to deal with what you consider to be a surplus. Is that correct?
COUNCILMAN STEC- This is what the attorneys came back with when I said, we have a surplus, I'd like
to give it back to the people, how do we do it? This was the answer to the question.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-So, they would not recommend capital improvement? Is that what you're saying?
COUNCILMAN STEC-I said
TOWN COUNSEL BOB HAFNER-We were not involved in your policy decision.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I know, I apologize, I apologize.
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-We answered the question that was put before us and you got a copy of the
memo.
COUNCILMAN STEC-But Roger, you and I exchanged an email on, well, I sent you an email on this
where I pointed out, I did the math and if Dennis wants to lend me the capital balance sheet, I can do the
math and tell you how much are fundable by the general fund and it is far less then a couple million dollars,
far less.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Dan, I'm not arguing the math, I'm arguing the method. I'm not talking about, I'm
talking about what is really fair to the entire population of the Town of Queensbury. How do we, as a
government body, give back to the public at large, and I don't think just taking sales tax dollars and giving
it to property owners, whether it's the Great Escape or anybody else is the best way to do it. The hard work
is for us to sit here and go, let's get these danm jobs done, let's fund this thing, let's get it moving, let's just
not set up a program and then just sit there and watch it. Let's do the hard work. It's easy to give money
away when it's not yours.
COUNCILMAN STEC-It's not ours.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Exactly. So, I mean, I could come up with that idea but what good does it do? I
mean, we're not doing
COUNCILMAN STEC-It puts the money back where it came from, Roger.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-But how does it, how does it improve the infrastructure? How does it help the
citizens?
COUNCILMAN STEC-Roger, no one is saying that we're not going to do any capital improvements. What
we're saying is that we've got an obscene surplus.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well, why aren't we doing something with it?
COUNCILMAN STEC-By law, schools are limited to two percent. By some people's math, we're almost
at a hundred percent. When do you say, we've got too much?
COUNCILMAN BOOR-When you don't do anything with it, you've got too much. Why aren't we doing
what we're supposed to be doing as government people? Why aren't we serving the public?
COUNCILMAN STEC-But if we funded, tomorrow, everything that's on the capital list that we can fund
from the general fund, which is what we're talking about, you've got two million dollars worth of projects,
if you've got two million. You don't have fifteen million dollars, you've got two because most of them are
wastewater and water.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well, I would argue that math. I would argue that math but I don't think it's
appropriate now.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Well, if! can, I'll argue there right now, the connector road is a project that's
going to be over a million dollars.
COUNCILMAN STEC- That should be funded over time. Right? You won't talk about that.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-The relocation of EMS.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Ditto, right?
SUPERVISOR BROWER-That's probably a million dollars.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Ditto.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-I mean
COUNCILMAN BOOR-But I mean, seriously, come on, it's more then two million.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Well, anybody can sit here and think of things that we could do.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Right.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I mean, if! gave my wife a wish list
COUNCILMAN BOOR-What are we here for? What is our job.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-of what things we could do to our house, Christ, I'd be in debt for thirty
million dollars.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Is, that's our job for God's sake.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Well, the bottom line is
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Well, do them Roger, I mean
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I'm trying to get a consensus, it takes five of us to get something done.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-The one thing, the one thing I will say is that I think
COUNCILMAN BREWER-It doesn't take five of us.
COUNCILMAN STEC-It's three.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-the proper, if indeed, after an analysis is done
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I'd like it to be five.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I understand that.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-this is the right way to do it, the right way is to leave money with the county, I
firmly believe. However, I'm not, we're just starting the budget process now, matter of fact, I'll have, Henry
will have the budget to me Friday for my perusal and work and we're just starting the budget process for
this coming year and my suggestion would be that we get into it this coming year, if board members would
like to sincerely analyze this and I think we should. Henry, do you have any comment at all? I don't know
if you do or not?
MR. HESS, Comptroller-I don't really, in fact, it's probably been apparent that there's a debate going on
here about whether this should be done or whether it shouldn't, I don't really want to enter that. I really
support, go back to what Fred Champagne, he just left, Fred did look at this several years ago and was a
supporter of doing this. At the time, the town had a town tax rate and you shouldn't give money back to the
county as long as you have a town tax rate. We don't have that situation now. So, I'm supportive of doing
the leg work to get this done but that hasn't been done. We have not done the analysis that needs to know
how, the timing, how large and is this sustainable if you want to sustain it? And sustainability I think is an
important issue because tax stabilization should be an important issue for the Town Board. So I, I'm not
speaking against doing this, I am speaking in favor of doing it in an orderly way and including it as part of
the budget process and when you vote on it, know wha the long term impact will be.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Okay, thank you. Any further comment from board members?
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I would just say that if we leave a million dollars, the long term impact is, next
year, we can go through the budget process or this year, or the end of this year and beginning of next year
and decide whether we want to do a half million dollars a year or if we ever want to do it again. But the
long term impact of doing this one time this year, I don't think is going to affect this town and I think it's
going to be something beneficial for our taxpayers.
COUNCILMAN STEC-And I'd like to add, on a calmer note, to address a concern ofPlineys, that if this
was about politics, we'd be doing this next year but I specifically brought it to the forefront this year, in
addition to the fact that it's now getting up there around seven million dollars, that this year it's not a
political issue. Next year, everyone would be saying, you're doing this about election time. This is, and on
a two year cycle, it's one year or the other, it's either an election year or a not an election year and if you
want to avoid politics, this is the year to do it.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-So, if you don't want it, if you don't want to, you want to do it to avoid politics,
to do it now?
COUNCILMAN STEC-I want to do it and I want it to be done cleanly so that people can say it was done
for it's own sake, for it being the right thing.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-For the purpose of the right, being the right thing to do.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Without analysis.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I think it's our decision to make.
COUNCILMAN STEC-And Tim's right, you do the analysis, I don't think a million dollars is going to
crush anybody and I think that next year or next month or whenever we want to do that analysis, you know,
and maybe we'll say, huh, well a million dollars was a little steep so you know what, if we want to do this
perpetuity, instead of being able to do three hundred thousand a year, since Dan and Tim got a little
rambunctious and pushed for a million dollars, instead of doing three hundred thousand a year, we can only
do two hundred and fifty thousand in perpetuity. Okay, I mean, where's the, where is the danger in that?
There is no danger. There's no risk. No risk.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Okay, with that, I'll ask Caroline to call the vote, please.
DEPUTY TOWN CLERK BARBER-Mr. Brower?
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Abstain.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Abstain?
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Abstain.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-That's the weakest. What kind of a vote is that? Either be a man and say yes
or be a man and say no, don't abstain.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Nope, I'm abstaining and if you don't like it, I'm sorry.
DEPUTY TOWN CLERK BARBER-Mr. Boor?
COUNCILMAN BOOR-No.
DEPUTY TOWN CLERK BARBER-Mr. Stec?
COUNCILMAN STEC-Yes.
DEPUTY TOWN CLERK BARBER-Mr. Brewer?
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Yes.
(Councilman Brewer left meeting room)
RESOLUTION APPROVING TRANSIENT MERCHANT/TRANSIENT MERCHANT MARKET
LICENSE FOR HFD #55 D/B/A J CREW
RESOLUTION NO.: 343, 2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, HFD #55 d/b/a 1. Crew previously submitted an application to the Queensbury Town
Board for a Transient Merchant/Transient Merchant Market License to conduct a transient merchant market
from August 26th through September 2nd, 2002 for retail sale of clothing, shoes and accessories at 1471
State Route 9, Queensbury next to the Basketville factory outlet store in accordance with the provisions of
Town Code Chapter 160, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board previously forwarded the application to the Town of Queensbury
Planning Board for recommendation and site plan review, and
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Planning Board considered the site plan for this Transient Merchant
and/or Transient Merchant Market License application at its August 15th, 2002 meeting and recommended
approval, and
WHEREAS, the Warren County Planning Board also considered the site plan application at its
August 14th, 2002 meeting and also recommended approval,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that in accordance with the requirements set forth in Queensbury Town Code ~ 160-
8, the Town Board hereby grants a Transient Merchant/ Transient Merchant Market License to HFD #55
d/b/a J Crew to conduct a transient merchant market located at 1471 State Route 9, Queensbury, subject to
the following:
1. J Crew must pay all fees as required by Town Code Chapter 160;
2. J Crew must submit a bond in the amount of $10,000 as required by Chapter 160;
3. J Crew must submit proof of authorization to do business in New York and authorization of agent to
receive service of summons or other legal process in New York;
4. The License shall be valid only from August 26th through September 2nd, 2002 from 10:00 a.m. to 8:00
p.m. Monday through Saturday and from 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. on Sunday and the license shall expire
immediately thereafter;
5. This approval is conditioned upon J Crew coordinating traffic control with the Warren County Sheriffs
Department;
6. The Transient Merchant License shall not be assignable; and
7. J Crew must comply with all regulations specified in Town Code ~160-8.
Duly adopted this 19th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Boor, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brower
NOES
None
ABSENT:
Mr. Turner, Mr. Brewer
TOWN BOARD DISCUSSIONS
(Councilman Brewer re-entered meeting room)
SUPERVISOR BROWER-We did receive the four hundred fifty thousand, the T2l funds the Main Street
project, I want to thank Chris Round and your staff for compiling the application for that. I'm very pleased
that we received that... The speed wagon, I was on West Mountain Road this weekend, you may have
noticed, I was surprised by it myself, I hit it at forty-three miles an hour, so I was real pleased I was under
the limit...
COUNCILMAN BOOR-This came up before and I think I asked it, I don't remember if I got a good answer
but under what circumstances can somebody abstain on a vote?
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-You did ask us that question and it is up to each of your decisions whether
or not to abstain or not, any vote you can vote
SUPERVISOR BROWER-And I'd like to, I'm going to clarify my abstention. I wanted to see a financial, a
complete financial analysis of not only the sales tax revenue projections but our spending projections and
what impact this is going to have on taxes. I don't believe I've got enough information that's presented to
me by Mr. Stec to make such a decision and until I can, until I can, I wouldn't say yes or no.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Dennis, understand, it's not a criticism. It wasn't a criticism.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-No, I know but you wanted to know.
COUNCILMAN STEC-I'll criticize it, it was a cop-out.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-You can criticize anything you want, Dan.
COUNCILMAN STEC-It was a cop-out. You're whole behavior on this has been a cop-out.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Let's not get personal. I just wanted to know
COUNCILMAN STEC- That's not personal, Roger, he dodged the question.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-It's very personal. It's very personal Dan.
COUNCILMAN STEC-You, it was, you've had seven weeks notice, Dennis.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Well
COUNCILMAN STEC-Seven weeks to think about this, that's something, something you could do in an
hour.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Dan, at our last, at our last board meeting, you didn't even mention it...
COUNCILMAN STEC-And the board meeting before that, you said it was going to be on the agenda for
the workshop. I remember that, we can listen to the tape, you said it will be on the workshop and it wasn't.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-It was not on the agenda, Mr. Hess was shorthanded in his department, he hasn't
had an opportunity to do it. We're entering the budget, the budget period for the Town of Queensbury. If
you want to seriously consider this for the following year, you just participate in the budget thing and we
will look at it.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Oh, we'll do it next year.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-in the budget thing and we'll look at it.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Yea, we'll do it next year and we'll be two mil,
SUPERVISOR BROWER-That's right.
COUNCILMAN STEC-And we'll be talking about two million.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-We may do it next year, a lot depends on what the projection show and then
each board member will make an analysis and a decision as to whether or not they feel it's in the best
interest of the Town of Queensbury to do that.
COUNCILMAN STEC-A status update on our discussions with the City of Glens Falls and the joint
assessor issue?
SUPERVISOR BROWER-I spoke to the Mayor, he indicated that he had spoken to the council, they
support it, they haven't taken action yet but they intend to.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I met with the Glen Lake individuals who are spearheading this ad hock
committee to dredge, they are going to, early next week, submit their, in writing, their plan and they had
preferred to have Mark Schachner because he was a resident of the lake. I talked to Mark and he said he
would relay to you, he thought it would be more appropriate that you handle it.
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-Yes, he needs to stay out of because he has a property on Glen Lake and we
don't want to have any appearance of anything improper and I did call Dave Wick today but I called to late
to reach him.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I told them that. There is a time frame here that's very critical and that has to do
with locking up the dredge should, and they were, and also I think they are now looking at the town being
lead agent, not just supplying some funding. So, I think there's a lot oflegal issues and liability issues.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I would prefer, this is my own opinion, they do the test to find out if it's
appropriate to dredge before we lock up the dredge because I don't want to be tied into a contract for a year
and have the test come out negative.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-They're aware of that, that's why they're not locking up the dredge with the fifteen
thousand they already have which would cover the total cost of the dredge because they don't know... I
believe that, if it's not being done right away it will be tomorrow or the next day because I told them, we
need to see this in writing and that the lawyer would have to review everything.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Just to update you, the resolutions we passed tonight about the grant money,
September 3rd I think it is, they're going to do the lead base paint test on the homes. I was at one of the
homes yesterday, the lady is ecstatic about the work that's going to be done and hopefully, we'll start mid
September and get some of that work done this year, on some of the homes anyway and carry over to next
year.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-I have some good and bad news. The good news is Mr. Turner, Ted is home
from the hospital, he had triple bypass surgery.
DEPUTY TOWN CLERK BARBER-Quad.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-In any case, he's recovery at home. On a sad note, Bill Thomas's wife,
Chairman of the Board of Warren County, died this weekend, Carol Thomas.
MR. RALPH VANDUSEN, Water/Wastewater Superintendent-I just have one thing, I think most
everybody up there received a copy of a letter from the mayor regarding the water project. It raises some
issues that the Town Board may be concerned about. It raised some that certainly, at the Water Department
and I'm sure Chris has some concerns. The final sentence, it says, the town's comments with regard to the
city's plans are welcomed. I would think that it would make sense for us to get together as a group and
have one set of comments, as opposed to several and I just wanted to get the board's wishes on that... Town
Board held discussion, counsel agreed to research some issues for the board and it was agreed to discuss
further at the board meeting on the 28th.
MR. CHRIS ROUND, Executive Director of Community Development spoke to the board regarding
preliminary cost estimates for Route 9, million dollar mile... Need to discuss existing lighting policy,
there's some issues, there's some alternatives that we've got to spell out... It's not a small project, four
hundred thousand dollars, you're talking about fifty fixtures and there's an annual cost as well...
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-I had two things related to the Queensbury Avenue Sewer District. I got a
letter today, one of the things that we have asked for with that project is an access easement, just during
construction over some property owned by Forest Enterprises and we've been working back and forth. We
have told them that we would envision that they would let us have this as a temporary easement, that we
would put the property back as is, there'd be no harm, there'd be no charge. We got our third letter which is
says, well this one says, all is acceptable but there's no mention to compensation for Forest Enterprises for
this temporary easement. I need to be able to get back to them and I think the Town Board, if you guys
could think about whether or not it's worth, and I think you're going to need some input from Ralph and
Mike.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-No, we're not going to pay for it.
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-Okay, and I think that we don't technically need it, it would just make things
easier is what I've understood from talking with Tom, Mike and Ralph. We have tried twice, you guys
have gotten the letters where we've said, this is a public thing, it's a benefit, we'll put your property the way
it is, we don't envision it. On a related thing, we've been talking with the attorneys for the people who own
Apollo Drive. Remember, the last meeting the Town Board had passed a resolution authorizing seventy-
five hundred dollars for legal fees. He got back to us today saying that his estimate of the total legal fees
will be ten thousand dollars. We also put in the resolution that they don't get paid until we get the easement
and he, for some reason, took offense at that. We described that you guys are a public entity and you can
only use public funds for public projects but he has asked me to come back and ask the Town Board to
consider revising your resolution to provide that the legal fees inolved with considering the project would
be paid whether or not you get the easement.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-You would advise against that, wouldn't you?
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-I think as a public thing, you pay for a public benefit and the thing is that I
think we're very close and I'm hoping that we get to a stage where, well, you've got permission, you get it
to me, we'll go this final bit that you ask.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Isn't a matter off act thing, though?
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-They have some very complicated financing that has really made this a lot
more complex of a project then I would have ever envisioned but, it sounds like we're close but we still
haven't seen anything. So, I wanted to report back and be able to get back to him with comments.
RESOLUTION TO ADJOURN BOARD MEETING
RESOLUTION NO.: 344,2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED FOR IT'S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns it's Regular Town
Board Meeting.
Duly adopted this 19th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
AYES:
Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer
NOES:
None
ABSENT:
Mr. Turner
No further action taken.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
DARLEEN M. DOUGHER TOWN CLERK TOWN OF QUEENSBURY