2002-08-28 SP
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
AUGUST 28TH, 2002
MTG#39
RES# 345-346 7:00 P.M.
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR COUNCILMAN DANIEL STEC
COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER
BOARD MEMBER ABSENT
COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER
TOWN COUNSEL
ROBERT HAFNER
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Opened meeting.
WEST GLENS FALLS EMERGENCY SQUAD BUILDING UPDATE
PRESIDENT, SANDY BOUCHER, KATHRINE WEBB, VICE PRESIDENT PAT BRENNAN, LONG
RANGE PLANNING COMMITTEE CHAIR PERSON
(Mr. Brennan presented Board Members with copy of letter)
Ms. Boucher-Spoke to the board regarding a new building. Councilman Brower-asked if information was
reviewed with Mr. Hess prior to meeting? Ms. Boucher-yes. Mr. Brennan-looked at property next to West
Glens Fire House that they are going to give them for about thirty thousand. Ms. Boucher-roughly two
acres of land. Mr. Brennan-looking to get Town Board approval to go ahead with the purchase of property
will start looking at architects for a design to come back to the board with a design. Supervisor Brower
noted one of his concerns is before they can give conceptual approval they have to be further along in the
process of obtaining the properties that he understands it should be within a month they should have it tied
down. Mr. Brennan asked can they have the boards approval saying when they close the deal... Supervisor
Brower-thinks the board would be in a position to make a decision at that point. Mr. Brennan-asked if they
had enough information from them now? Supervisor Brower-as far as the propertygoes, yes. Mr. Brennan
noting there are some numbers in there about obtaining an architect. Supervisor Brower those are things
they discuss now. Comptroller, Mr. Hess-going into the 2003 budget process if this is going occur will
need a 2003 budget amendment. The Squad has a 2003 budget that should require an amendment you have
to appropriate the money to fund the cash needs unless they have cash resources.... to pay soft cost. You
would have to have a rough budget of the capital project at least a soft cost and front cost because it would
require a budget amendment. If you adopt a 2003 budget and don't have this plugged in you might not have
the fund balance you need to draw from to do this later. They need to firm preliminary costs ahead of time.
Ms. Webb-have taken a vote from their members and have voted to definitely move so they are going to
move their building and are hoping to buy over at West noted they want the board to agree with them
noting they have waited three and an a half years. Councilman Brewer-noted he supports what they are
going to do and wants to help in doing what they are doing noting he has financial concerns. The building
that was showed was six hundred and seventy five thousand looking at the sheet that was given a week ago
it is up to one point one. Mr. Brennan-Noted he has spoken to architects that do this type of work and he
came up with square foot number based on an imaginary building just on square foot cost along based on a
seven thousand square foot building noting that's why they are here. Councilman Boor-noted he has a
problem with two hundred thousand. Councilman Brewer-questioned if they have a history of architect
coss? Comptroller, Mr. Hess they have some. Councilman Brewer-Questioned the forty thousand to
acquire the property is it going to cost ten thousand for closing? Ms. Boucher-the survey cost, the
subdivision if it has to be subdivided, lawyer's fees, and purchase of the property. Ms. Boucher-spoke to
the board regarding the amount of use the building gets. Noted she would rather be high to start out and
then cut it down, but to look feasibly at a seven thousand square foot building for an emergency squad that
does the volume that we do in the Town of Queensbury doesn't think it's really far out. Councilman Boor-
doesn't think it is either understands their frustration. Asked that they try to keep the emotion out of it this
these are nuts and bolts things that they are dealing with noting they have to be careful and they have a
responsibility. Councilman Stec-it's a given you have to move, it's a given that we want to be bigger to
accommodate the future noted his concern about the dollars he questions the achitectural fees is
comfortable with the site. Comptroller Hess-noted they are really asking for more than conceptual
approval thinks they are asking for money to fund the conceptual approval. It was his understanding when
they talked they were looking for the Town to front those soft costs noting it requires a budget adjustment it
can't be done tonight because they don't have a budget from them to do that. Then the board has to adopt
that then you have to put together a budget then adopt it in a resolution with a public hearing at a future
meeting. Ms. Boucher-the Fire Company has agreed to whatever needs to be done they don't want money
right now they are willing to sign a note saying when the money comes in they get it. Questioned if they
need to get a price of an architect? Councilman Stec-would like to avoid that. Supervisor Brower-at this
point in time to go beyond the conceptual idea that I think the board supports your concept of moving, but
doesn't want to have an action of the board affect oter negotiations that are on going at this point doesn't
want to take any official action right now. Ms. Boucher noted they have already voted to sell their
property. Councilman Boor noted they are acting on this assumed this would be complete. Supervisor
Brower-know they are going to have an obligation to build facilities that would be suitable for EMS. The
size of the facilities things of that nature could be negotiable the bottom line is the board understands they
have a commitment to you. Asked members of the EMS Squad not to put for sale signs up. Attorney
Hafner-understands that the current contract with the Town runs through the end of 2003. That contract
says you are going to provide services to the Town and we the Town are going to pay you certain amount
of money. If that amount of money changes there are statutory things that the Town has to go through
before they can agree to that. The contract has certain kinds of expenses and needs the Town's approval
before you can go spend that money. 0 go through the changes of the numbers of the contract there is a
procedure that we would have to follow such as a public hearing then they have to act after the public
hearing as far as the legalities of this the board can't act tonight. Ms. Boucher noted they are going to
purchase the property from the Fire Company are willing to use own funds to hold the land asked the board
if this is okay to do this? Comptroller Hess-the terms of the contract there is no requirement that you get
the Town Boards approval to do that although it is wise to come in and make sure there is somebody
behind it thinks they are hearing that there is once you come up with a budget amendment for next year. If
you have the money to fund it don't need the approval of board to hold the property heard the conceptual
approval that they will support a reasonable project when you come to the board with a budget. After
further discussion it was the decision of the board to meet at future date to come up with budget to submit
to the bordo
FAITH BIBLE BAPTIST CHURCH PROPERTY UPDATE
TOWN ASSESSOR, HELEN OTTE
Town Assessor, Ms. Otte updated board regarding Faith Bible Baptist Church. (Presented board members
with handouts of parcels). These are two parcels that are in question they are now owned by the Open
Space Conservancy a non profit organization they are fully exempt except that both parcels pay water
capital charges. One is the small parcel up near Division the .86 acres is the smaller one closer to Division
Street end. The 68 acres extends on down to the south towards the river. At the present time they are
exempt they have been for some time under Faith Bible they didn't pay any taxes either except for the
capital charges for water. Supervisor Brower-questioned if the Cemetery property is included one of the
two parcels? Ms. Otte-those are still Faith Bible. Supervisor Brower-as heard in the last meeting the
Highway Department has been using the turn around as a road by use it's becomes a road by use over the
years through utilization of that by the Town. Attorney Hafner-the parcel that is at issueis the little road by
use between Ogden and Division Road it is part of the property that is owned by the Open Space
Conservancy Inc. it's a road by use looks like an easement that's on it. Spoke with the Highway
Superintendent who says that the Town has used and maintained it for many years and that the public
periodically uses it. Also understands by talking with Harry Hansen that next year Open Space
Conservancy is planning to give this parcel and a bigger chunk, which includes where the road by use is to
the Town for public park services. Pliney Tucker-questioned why they can't return Division Road to a
dead end road like the other three roads in that subdivision? Division Road would give the Town access to
their property and Ogden Road would give the Church access to their property. The two dead end roads to
be legal dead end roads they are suppose to have turn around. John Salvador-spoke to the board regarding
the legalities of a road by use. Supervisor Brower-if and when the Town acquires this property if we have
two roads this being Division this being Ogden and currently there is a road by use now if the Town so
desires we could make some type of round about on each side of it if we wanted to once it becomes ours?
Attorney Hafner-if the board wanted to they could add to it. Mr. Salvador noted this whole thing is flawed.
This strip of land that we are talking about in which you want to put a Town road thinks it is an illegal
entity whether or not it is a Town road by use. Mr. Salvador-The State Comptroller has addressed this
issue neither the Town Board by resolution nor the Superintendent of Highways by signing a decree can
make a street a Town highway by use. Attorney Hafner-they haven't done that it's the amount of the use.
Supervisor Brower-noted they are not prepared to go beyond this tonight.
5 MPH SPEED LIMIT NEAR FISHER'S MARINA HOWIE FISHER OWNER OF FISHER'S MARINA
AND SUSAN WEBER
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Presented map to board. - In Warner Bay on the east shore of Lake George there
is small bay this small bay is where Ms. Weber lives noted where the marina is. Received a phone call
from Ms. Weber noting she would like to see a speed restriction on the lake noted her boat in a boathouse
had sunk in the boathouse because of the wakes that were being generated in her bay. Supervisor Brower
asked Mr. Fisher if he would have an objection to a 5 mph speed limit in bay, Mr. Fisher noted he has been
trying to do this since 1985. Supervisor Brower recommended a petition would be helpful but the Town
Board would consider more than just the signatures of residents on the point would have to consider the
impact to people that navigate on the lake. Ms. Weber and Mr. Fisher came in about two weeks ago
provided the Town with a petition. Supervisor Brower noted he called the Lake George Park Commission
asking what would be involved if they wanted to do something. The board could set a local ordinance tat
would restrict the speed to 5 mph. The Town would be required to buy the buoys Lake George Park
Commission would install them next year this is a reasonable accommodation. Attorney Hafner-the
process would be set the public hearing have a propose local law we have a Town Ordinance that already
sets different parts of Lake George down to 5 mph. would add paragraph (f) to Section 55-6 of our Town
Law. You would have to pass the resolution setting the public hearing you would have to post and publish
ten days before the hearing instead of thirty hold the public hearing. Then if you approve decide after the
public hearing that you want to do it then you pass the local law file it with the State. Councilman Boor-
Noted he is in favor of this his concern is for the influx of other people who are going to want to have 5
mph zones extended out. Attorney Hafner noted there is a limit of how far you can go out it is fifteen
hundred feet. After further discussion it was the decision of the board to go ahead wit this try to set public
hearing for next regular meeting. Attorney Hafner-recommended having a surveyor give a description
from one point to the other point.
OUTDOOR THEATRE FUNDING "LAST OF THE MOHICANS" -SUPERVISOR BROWER
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Spoke to the board regarding the Outdoor Theatre Last of the Mohicans noting
most of the board members were enthusiastic about the concept. The two producers felt that it would be
important to contract with the University of North Carolina cost of $16,000 where the University of North
Carolina group would do a study. They have narrowed three locations down one in Queensbury at West
Mountain two in Lake George one in the Village and one is in the Town. The group would come up look
over the three sites and complete a report indicating their preferred site. Noted it went to the County for
consideration noting they agreed to budget the money for next year unless the Budget Officer cuts it.
Councilman Brewer recommended going in with Lake George and to fund eight thousand dollars
immediately to get the study accomplished. Councilman Brewer originally had the meeting three months
ago had a preliminary study done it was brought to the feasibility study. Lou Tessier said they are willing
to pay their half we pay our half let them get the study done this year they pick the site whatever site it
might be we are all going to benefit from it. Supervisor Brower noted ownership if very important whoever
participates in this they should own the study. Thinks it is a County expense it will benefit the County no
matter what community gets it noting it is a tourism activity. Councilman Boor noted his concern would
want to talk to the people at North Carolina to see if this could be done in this time frame. Supervisor
Brower noted he questions why anyone that would like to do this wouldn't pay for it themselves and it is an
expense that they should be responsible for. Councilman Brewer the reason they came to the community
they need community support it is going to be a non-profit corporation. Councilman Boor-asked Counsel
if it is appropriate for the board to be funding the feasibility study? Attorney Hafner-noted he would have
to research this to find out if it is appropriate for the Town to do this to get back to the board.
RIDGE ROAD 9 (NEAR LANDFILL) PROPERTY REZONING PRESENTATION - JON LAPPER
ATTORNEY LAPPER, KEVIN O'CONNOR, BRIAN O'CONNOR PRESENT
Attorney Lapper- (referred to zoning map) spoke to the board regarding a piece of property to be rezoned.
The piece is immediately north on Ridge Road near the intersection of Rte 149 it's north of O'Connor's pit.
Councilman Stec-what is it zoned? Attorney Lapper-SR-1A. They are proposing land conservation ten
acres, which is the same zone that the Town Landfill is now. With the proposed use it is something that is
compatible with their operation and with the Town Transfer Station. It is for Rick Sears a stump chipping
operation, which creates mulch and compost noting it is similar to what happens at the transfer station.
That operation is going on now off of Dixon Road where Dick Sears Tree Service is. It's not the whole
operation, but the son is doing the chipping operation they would be moving it from there to this site up on
by Route 149 and Ridge. Councilman Boor-will he be doing the exact same thing or bigger scale?
Attorney Lapper-doesn't know the answer this isn't a huge lot its about five aces. Councilman Boor-
questioned if it was appropriate for what he's doing right now where he is? Attorney Lapper-thinks he
wants to separate the father's operation from the son's operation. In the land conservation zone chipping is
one of the permitted uses also sawmill and chipping operations this would be the chipping part not the
sawmill part. Councilman Brewer-questioned why rezone a five-acre parcel into land conservation ten?
Attorney Lapper-this operation doesn't need ten acres and you have a preexisting lot. The other alternative
would be to make it into light industrial but that would open the door for more intensive uses than the land
conservation use. Councilman Boor-noted one of his only concerns would be noise can it be mitigated or
does it need to be mitigated? Attorney Lapper-to contact Jim Miller who is doing the landscape on this.
Councilman Stec-asked the zoning for the operation off of Dixon Road? Attorney Lapper-part of it is
grand fathered and part of it got a variance. (Presente conceptual plan to board) The are a lot of trees there
now they would be proposing to use the existing entrance that the O'Connor's use to their pit. After further
discussion the board noted this is something they would consider.
ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW OF GLENS FALLS WATER FIL TRA TION PLANT - RALPH VAN
DUSEN
RALPH VAN DUSEN PRESENT
Mr. Van Dusen, Water Superintendent-Spoke to the board regarding letter received from the City advising
the Town that they are in the process for going out for proposal for their Water Filtration Plant. The
purpose of the letter was to advise the Town their Counsel is telling them that the following things are not
required. One is that there would be no environmental review necessary. It would not be necessary to
obtain a building permit from the Town or come under any compliance with the Zoning Ordinance noting
that these are not relevant to the operation of water. Noted his concern was that the Town of Queensbury
on behalf of the Water Department owns a strip of land that bisects some City owned property noting it
wasn't clear to him until he received the map where they are proposing to build the plant. They are using
the property as a driveway right now to get into the lower junction asked Counsel to take a look at some of
these questions in the letter. The map that they show kind of indicates thatmaybe the City has an easement
across our property noting they have been using it for a number of years. When the tanks were built in
ninety-five it significantly increased the amount of use of our property. They have some water lines
installed across there they have underground power going to their booster pump that was installed in
ninety-eight. They have a cross-country ski trail on the property and lighting on the property all of which
maybe previous boards have authorized noting he spoke with Harry Hansen regarding this noted Mr.
Hansen was sure the Recreation Department from Queensbury had never been involved in any type of a
joint agreement. In looking at the map noticed that our twenty-four inch line is not entirely on our property
it is on a portion of the City's it's been there since seventy-five and Attorney Hafner noted that it is fine.
His concern is as long as it's not encroaching on our ability to use this for our own pipeline that's really the
concern. Is a little concern about the fact tey might have installed some water lines or electric lines across
it without talking to us noting if they did talk to us the Water Department wasn't involved in the
conversation. The parcel that the City wants the water facility built is on this parcel (referred to map)
which is less than one acre in size noting they are going to build a water plant
that has a capability of eight million gallons a day half the size of Queensbury on less than one acre. There
are water lines coming from the upper junction coming down there is a twenty inch connection between our
transmission main and the City's pipe that was put in ninety-eight for emergency connection this cuts across
here. Then there are lines coming out of this going to various portion of the City. It is going to be a real
challenge for anyone to end up with buildings on this site to treat this without tearing down a bunch of trees
in what is now Cole Woods noting there has been a huge public outcry not to do this. The next logical
thing is to use this strip, which we own should be really concern about not being used as a staging area
unless there is something in it for us. Attorney Hafner-looks at this as two big issues first is the substance
of what they say in the letter. The second is what are the real estate rights here how do we protect our
property where our twenty-four inch transmission line is? The first part we have an answer for the second
part is going to take a little more research. Attorney Hafner recommended he finish his research then speak
with Attorney Mark Noordsy who is the City Water Department Attorney about these issues after meeting
to write memo to board members.
DISCUSION HELD
ATTORNEY HAFNER -Spoke to the board regarding report from Dave Wicks regarding dredging noting
he has received comments back from Mr. Wicks noting he is planning to give his final version of report to
board members. Recommended after the board has reviewed it to have an attorney-client meeting to talk
about report and legal issues relating to it.
RESOLUTION ENTERING EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 345, 2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Regular Session
and enters into Executive Session to discuss two personnel matters and possible property acquisition.
Duly adopted this 28th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mr. Boor, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
Noes: None
AbsentMr. Turner
(No action taken)
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION AND ADJOURN SPECIAL TOWN BOARD
MEETING
RESOLUTION NO. 346, 2002
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Executive Session
and moves back into Regular Session, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Special Town Board
Meeting.
Duly adopted this 28th day of August, 2002, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor
Noes: None
AbsentMr. Turner
On motion meeting adjourned.
Respectfully Submitted,
Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk Town of Queensbury