2003-06-02
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING
JUNE 2, 2003
MTG. #24
RES. 269-280
7:00 p.m.
BOH 16-19
TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER COUNCILMAN ROGER
BOOR COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN TIM
BREWER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH
RESOLUTION NO. 269.2003
INTRODUCED BY Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into the Queensbury Board
of Health.
Duly adopted this 2nd. Day of June, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
1.0 PUBLIC HEARING
1.1 Public Hearing Sewer Variance Helene Horn
NOTICE SHOWN
Mr. Tom Jarrett-Good evening my name is Tom Jarrett of Jarrett-Martin Engineers I am here tonight
representing Helene Horn who lives on Cleverdale, approximately opposite the north end of Mason Road
as it intersects Cleverdale Road. She is trying to replace an outdated septic system that does not currently
meet town code with a system in the same location that does meet code. Essentially what we are doing is
raising the system to three feet above seasonal high ground water as required by the code and we are
keeping the set backs the same as they exist right now. The most critical set back is the north property line
and we are asking for a variance from the ten foot required to four foot set back which is concurrent with
what is there now.
Supervisor Brower-Questions of Mr. Jarrett?
Councilman Boor-On one, and I look at a lot of maps and I am going to feel stupid if it is on here is there a
scale on this map?
Mr. Jarrett -lam going to be feel more stupid if there isn't. I do not see it off hand either. Usually we have
a graphic scale right underneath the plan.
Councilman Boor-I guess where I am going with that how far is this system from the lake?
Mr. Jarrett-It is more than a hundred feet I will try to give you a dimension in just one second. I will have
to fine tune it, I believe the closest point on the system is approximately a hundred and twenty feet. But, I
will have to fine tune that, I will keep looking for it.
Councilman Boor-The other question is under design information it says potable water supply it says no
known existing potable water supply is located within a hundred feet. That is great except it is a little
vague in other words is that just a disclaimer?
Mr. Jarrett-We did recon ourselves and knocked on doors and we did not find any wells any thing obvious.
Councilman Boor-Adjacent neighbors?
Mr. Jarrett -Correct.
Councilman Boor-Is there any addition being planned for this? The house itself?
Mr. Jarrett-No. Mrs. Horn is here tonight we can ask her, but I do not believe that there is any addition
planned for this.
Councilman Boor-That is all I have questions right now.
Supervisor Brower-Any other questions for Tom Jarrett? Thank you Mr. Jarrett we will probably call upon
you agaIn.
Mr. Jarrett-I will see if! can get that exact dimension while we go to public hearing.
Supervisor Brower-At this time I would like to open the public hearing and invite any interested members
of the public to speak on this application. Would anyone care to comment at this time? All affected
property owners within five hundred feet of the residence were notified by mail. Any correspondence?
Town Clerk Dougher-no.
Councilman Brewer-How much are you actually going to excavate Tom?
Mr. Jarrett-Literally about a foot in the areas to the north and west of the system to remove the top soil,
very little are we going to excavate mostly it is going to be fill. We have to put the drainage system in on
the west edge the upper edge and along the north property line. That is where the most severe drainage
impact are right now and remove the top soil and then import fill.
Councilman Boor-What is there now?
Mr. Jarrett-There was an old antiquated system there that at some point in recent years was replaced with
something and nobody seemed to have documentation with what it was replaced and that was between five
and ten years ago I guess.
Councilman Boor-Is it in the general same vicinity.
Mr. Jarrett-In the same location there as we can tell. There is a white vent pipe that is approximately the
same distance off the property line, it does not go to anything any more. That was disconnected, but that is
the same distance off the property line that we are proposing the system.
Supervisor Brower-The public hearing is still opened if anyone would care to comment. Seeing no interest
I will close the public hearing and ask Mr. Jarrett if he as a dimension that he would like to share with us?
Mr. Jarrett-It is still not exact it is less than a hundred and twenty it looks like a hundred ten to a hundred
and fifteen. We can correct that plan and submit it for the record.
Supervisor Brower-Certainly it appears that this system will alleviate problems that are currently being, you
are currently having at the site where you have spring drainage that is going into the current system. I think
this will be a positive benefit to the lake and I think I can support it on that basis. Further discussion for the
engineer? Hearing none do we have a motion?
RESOLUTION APPROVING SEWAGE DISPOSAL VARIANCE APPLICATION OF HELENE HORN
RESOLUTION NO.: 16,2003 BOH
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, Helene Horn filed an application for a variance from provisions of the Town of
Queensbury On-Site Sewage Disposal Ordinance, such application requesting that the Local Board of
Health authorize Ms. Horn to install a fill system four feet (4') from the property line instead of the required
ten feet (10') setback on property located at 336 Cleverdale Road, Queensbury, and
WHEREAS, the Town Clerk's Office published the Notice of Public Hearing in the Town's
official newspaper and the Local Board of Health conducted a public hearing concerning the variance
request on June 2nd, 2003, and
WHEREAS, the Town Clerk advises that property owners within 500 feet of the subject property
have been duly notified,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED,
a) that due to the nature of the variance, it is felt that the variance would not be materially detrimental to
the purposes and objectives of this Ordinance or to other adjoining properties or otherwise conflict with the
purpose and objectives of any plan or policy of the Town of Queensbury; and
b) that the Local Board of Health finds that the granting of the variance is necessary for the reasonable use
of the land and that the variance granted is the minimum variance which would alleviate the specific
unnecessary hardship found by the Local Board of Health to affect the applicant; and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town of Queensbury Local Board of Health hereby approves the
application of Helene Horn for a variance from the Sewage Disposal Ordinance to allow Ms. Horn to install
a fill system four feet (4') from the property line instead of the required ten feet (10') setback on property
located at 336 Cleverdale Road, Queensbury and bearing Tax Map No.: 226.12-1-73.
Duly adopted this 2nd day of June, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES
None
ABSENT: None
Discussion held after vote: Mr. Jarrett-Thank you very much. Supervisor Brower-I meant to mention that
Dave Hatin felt that this was an appropriate action.
1.2 Public Hearing - Sewer Variance Jim and Nancy White
Notice Shown
Supervisor Brower-Mr. Jarrett or Mr. O'Connor who wants to lead off.
Mr. Tom Jarrett-Good evening again, Tom Jarrett or Jarrett-Martin Engineers let me open by saying this
one has a scale on it. We are representing Nancy and Jim White on Cleverdale near the south end of
Russell Harris Road. They are proposing to replace a septic system which we believe based on a
contractors review maybe underneath the existing residence, with a combination of holding tanks outside
the rear of the cottage. The Board may recall that this is a subject of a variance request last year. We
proposed a relatively conventional leaching system however it was raised on a very narrow lot and there
were a number of concerns expressed by the neighbors regarding drainage and the Board wished not to
entertain the variance at that time. The White's decided that rather than to get into that expense with
potentially municipal sewer coming they would rather put in a holding tank and request a variance and then
connect to a municipal sewer when it is available.
Councilman Boor-If it is available.
Mr. Jarrett-If and when. It is certainly imminent every since 1930 or so.
Councilman Boor-It is not a concern I am just saying the when is kind of.
Mr. Jarrett-We would reserve the right to come back with another proposal if the municipal sewer does not
look feasible at some point in the future. The design has been set up, the holding tank design has been set
up to meet town standards with the exception of the capacity but it has the alarm system. We have a
contract in writing from IBS septic for pump out.
Councilman Brewer-Why do you go twenty five instead of thirty five?
Mr. Jarrett-We are proposing that because of the size of the lot and the size of the tanks and also these two
tanks are practical when we do have to connect to the municipal sewer beyond that it becomes an expense
that they would not have to incur otherwise. So, I am hoping that you will consider this.
Councilman Boor-My only problem is, is I do not like the assumption of municipal sewer coming. That is
just not
Mr. Jarrett-If we have to go to an on site system and address the drainage issues that the neighbors raised
these two tanks would still be practical for that system. Where anything in addition to this would have to
be removed probably later for an on site system.
Councilman Brewer-How much bigger is the thirty five hundred tank vs the twenty five in physical size?
Councilman Boor-Is it cost or is it size?
Mr. Jarrett-It is size. It is actually bulk really the larger tanks disproportion ally more expensive and we
last to encroach upon the side setbacks where we don't right now.
Councilman Boor-Would you need a variance on the side setback for a thirty five hundred?
Mr. Jarrett-Unless we stacked
Councilman Brewer-Well, they are right at ten feet right now so if it was any wider they would ...
Councilman Boor-I do not know the configuration of a thirty, I do not know if it is deeper, longer, wider or
Mr. Jarrett-They are typically the tanks you can get around here are typically wider and deeper and longer.
If we went with thousand gallon tanks we would end up with four tanks in series. If you insist we will
enlarge the tanks we were just hoping that you would consider this capacity.
Councilman Brewer-It is going to be your expense whether you pay in the beginning or you pay as time
goes on because you are going to have to pump it more often with twenty five than you would thirty five.
Mr. Jarrett -Yes, that is correct the same pumping cost ultimately it is just.
Attorney Mike O'Connor-Except it is salvageable if and or if ever municipal is offered. They are willing to
absorb the cost of the additional pumping. Also it leaves us an option that perhaps in the future if it gets
totally unreasonable to pump that we might be able to take care of the drainage problems that were raised
the last time when we came in for an actual variance, without totally removing everything that is here.
Councilman Brewer-This set up here there is not going to be that drainage issue or?
Mr. Jarrett-No. It ...will be below grade it will not permanently effect the drainage.
Attorney O'Connor-As I understand the drainage issue before was people were afraid that this would create
an unnatural if we put in a raised system it would create an unnatural damming.
Supervisor Brower-Is this a seasonal residence currently?
Mr. Jarrett -Yes, it is.
Councilman Boor-How I would vote on this does not have anything to do with my next question but just as
an information question. How much more is it for a thirty five hundred gallon tank as opposed to a twenty
five hundred gallon?
Mr. Jarrett-To install?
Councilman Boor-To buy it and install it. The difference, just the difference.
Mr. Jarrett-I cannot give you it off the top of my head.
Councilman Boor-It is substantial?
Mr. Jarrett -Yes. See we are proposing two guardian tanks of twelve hundred and fifty gallons each. Let
me check on that and see if we have a number we can give you?
Councilman Brewer-What is a guardian tank?
Mr. Jarrett-It is a manufacturer. They only make the larger tanks, custom, Fort Miller Tanks are even a
larger break in cost to go from standard thousand gallon tanks up to larger tanks. If you want me to, I will
try and get
Councilman Boor-I am just if the applicant is aware you know of the benefits of maybe paying more now it
is their decision. I just do not want to see them relying on sewer going in.
Mr. Jarrett-What is the benefit of the larger tanks?
Councilman Boor-They do not have to pump it out as much.
Mr. Jarrett-It is still going to be the same exact cost it is the amount of sewage they generate it does not
matter how big the tanks are. It is just more frequent when you have smaller tanks.
Councilman Stec-It is a per gallon price not a per trip or there isn't a base..
Mr. Jarrett-As long as you have a minimum oflets say a thousand to two thousand gallons you are paying
basically the same price you are not paying a disproportion ally high price.
Attorney O'Connor-My experience and it may not be correct is like a typical truck is like twenty five
hundred gallons even if you have the larger tank. They do not take more than that, I do not know if that is a
weight issue or what it is as far as licensing of trucks and what not.
Councilman Brewer-I wonder why we came up with and I know nobody here can answer this question but
where did we come up with thirty five hundred for the holding tank if that doesn't fit with every thing that
happens in the industry where the hell did we get thirty five hundred gallons.
Mr. Jarrett-Actually the town standard isn't even consistent there are two different numbers in the town
standard and by the way we exceed the health department requirements here. They require five days of
average flow and we have at least fifty percent more than that.
Councilman Boor-You got seven and a half days...
Councilman Brewer-So that is an issue we ought to take up with whom ever about our ordinance.
Mr. Jarrett-I am not sure where it originally came from but we exceed the health department we do not
meet the town standard.
Councilman Boor-What is going to be on top of this tank?
Mr. Jarrett-Just grass as far as we know, it will be landscaped or lawn. It covers the grade for pump out.
Councilman Brewer-Is this the application that we talked about was there trees going to be removed? Was
that a question?
Mr. Jarrett-We did talk about some trees and yes, last year.
Councilman Boor-Are they going to be removed?
Mr. Jarrett-They won't be removed, at least I do not believe so. I do not believe they are necessary to be
removed.
Supervisor Brower-So that is a no.
Mr. Jarrett-To the best of my knowledge they do not have to be removed.
Attorney O'Connor-Is Mr. White here?
Councilman Brewer-I just recall that there were some big trees that the neighbors were worried about being
cut down and they are not shown on the map.
Mr. Jarrett-I probably have a copy of the map we submitted last year.
Councilman Brewer-Well, lets wait and see what the neighbors say if we need that we can always get it to
you.
Attorney O'Connor-Just so you do not have the wrong impression, Dennis you asked the question as to
what type of residence is on here. This is step one, the intention is to it is a three bedroom residence that is
on there, the intention is to totally remodel that and end up with a three bedroom residence. It will be new
construction. Any time we apply for that because we are removing the existing and our intention is to stay
within the footprint of the existing we will need side line set back variances because that is what is there
now. But, when you totally remove it you have to go back for a variance and the first question they will
ask is have you taken care of sewer or taken care of septic? Just so you do not have the wrong impression.
Councilman Boor-So this probably will be more than just seasonal use when it is remodeled is that the?
Attorney O'Connor-The size of what is going to be put there for some people they may use it year round
but I understand the applicants intention is to use it as seasonal.
Councilman Boor-And we can't force them to do it one way or the other.
Attorney O'Connor-You are going to have system that is capable of year round use because it is going to be
a pumped out system. In actuality you have an improvement of over what ever is there now ever if it is
only seasonal because whatever the effluent is, is going to be taken entirely off the lot. You want us to get
off the table?
Supervisor Brower-Do you have anything else that you would like to add at this point?
Councilman Boor-One other point, so the system that is there now you believe that it is under the house and
you do not know really what it is?
Attorney O'Connor-Correct.
Mr. Jarrett-IBS went in and removed the toilets, snaked down through the soil pipe and came back and
concluded that they believe it is under the house but they do not know what is there.
Councilman Boor-You do not know what is there literally whether there is a tank or tin can or ...
Councilman Turner-How old is the existing house? How long has the existing house been there?
Mr. Jarrett-I do not know we can ask Nancy.
Mrs. White-Sixty something years old. The previous owners said she never remembers it being pumped
out and it is as old as the house is.
Mr. Jarrett-How old is the house?
Mrs. White-About sixty years old I think. She did not know it was under the house she thought it was
behind the house.
Mr. Jarrett-I think we ought to leave what is there it sounds pretty good to me.
Attorney O'Connor-It is probably a direct pipe someplace.
Supervisor Brower-Ok. Thank you. At this time I would like open the public hearing and invite any
members of the public that would care to comment on this application to come forward at this time. Mr.
Salvador
Mr. John Salvador-My name is John Salvador With regard to the seasonal use has the season been
defined? How long is a season?
Councilman Turner-Nine months...nine months I think it is in the code book or it was.
Mr. Salvador-So it is really three season use. All right. With regard to the question always that arises
pertaining, what is there. We were supposed to have all on site wastewater systems inventoried and
registered in 1989 and this town undertook that program. We should have a record of all on site systems.
This was done on behalf of the Lake George Park Commission that had the regulatory powers to do this
registration.
Councilman Boor-Are you saying that they have the information or we have it?
Mr. Salvador-I do not know where the information is, but Dave Hatin collected it. They are all supposed to
be registered. You are not supposed to continue to be able to operate without a registration. That goes for
the first application that was here too.
Supervisor Brower-Thank you Mr. Salvador, would anyone else care to address the application before us
this evening during the public hearing. Yes, Sir.
Mr. Gary Sampson-Good evening. My name is Gary Sampson and I live right next to the White's to the
south side to the south. As I explained it is a very narrow lot and we actually, it was a fifty foot lot and
back in the 1950's it was split in half to two twenty five foot lots. I am on one twenty five foot they are on
the other. So, we are very close to each other. This is the first time I have seen this plan. I have no
problems with him putting in a holding tank as they show there and everything. The main storm water
problem we had was out toward the road. Just outside where you see that fence line out there between that
and the road there is a perforated tile going under there and that is where the main of the problem is,
because coming down the hill right over the road onto our properties the road is a conduit for all this water
coming down on us. So, where they show it there, there is not a big problem. I know there are a couple of
huge pine trees there right at the back end of where they are puting those tanks. These are buys this big
around I personally I do not see who they are going to get them in there with those two trees there but if
they can they can as long as they know that they are not using by driveway to do it. If they are doing it
down there my driveway would be crushed under that equipment. I do not know, I guess all the set back
requirements are still good for this and so from that point of view I do not have a big problem with it. One
thing I do not understand is that to put in a holding tank in Queensbury you need a variance just to put in a
holding tank. Why aren't we doing all this at one time? Why are we coming for a variance on the size of
the holding tank now we are all going to have to come back again for another variance, whether we are
even going to put in a holding tank, because that I guess is not being addressed tonight.
Supervisor Brower-No, it is being addressed.
Councilman Stec- The whole septic issue.
Mr. Sampson-The thing I was sent was this to install a twenty five hundred gallon rather than a thirty five
hundred gallon, that is what I read here.
Supervisor Brower-But, it is a holding tank.
Mr. Sampson-They are all being addressed tonight, then. No other variances are being required?
Councilman Stec-No, I think what the applicant was referring to is that they are going to have to go before
the Zoning Board for other variances not related to septic. Which is their deal not ours.
Councilman Boor-And if they went with a wider one they would need to get a variance but they are within
the ten foot because of the size tanks they are using.
Mr. Sampson-So, it is all being addressed right now, the one time.
Councilman Boor-The holding tanks are.
Councilman Stec- The Zoning Board will handle the new construction. Mr. Sampson-Our two houses were
built back in the 50's as sort of they were models of each other, they were identical when we started. About
thirty or forty years ago our house was made two story at the back end and the White's house was kept the
same, it was extended toward the back a little bit, past where ours is. I have not seen the exact plans of
what they plan to do with the structure there when they improve their structure but I know where my septic
is, I know exactly where it is and I find it hard to believe that theirs is underneath their house, because they
were built pretty much the same both houses. They were probably copies of each other they built one then
they built the other just like the first one. If it is under the house I would be very surprised. In assuming it
is not for the moment, at least, personally I do not feel a lot of common sense on what we are doing here
with this whole thing. Across the Bay from us there was a one story camp and somebody with a lot of
money bought this cap decided that they did not like the camp and so they renovated it. They put in a three
story fifteen bedroom, ten bath room beautiful place in the same foot print. They just went way up. The
requirement that if you increase your living space your septic has to be up to standards fit perfectly for that
kind of thing. Yes, you are going from this whole thing to this big thing you need to do this. There is an
expectation that when you have a much bigger structure like that you are going to have a much higher
increase in tendency and everything else will go along with it, so yea, you need better septic. Their house
there, they have three bedrooms that are not much bigger than walk in closets. They really, it is deficiency
of the house they are these tiny little bedrooms. From what I the discussion I have had all they want to do
is have three reasonable size bedrooms. I do not see any expectation that you are increasing the tendency
of this house. Given that you have a septic system that works. Now youare asking them to probably dump
ten or twenty thousand dollars into a big hole in the ground to fix something that really isn't broken right
now, as far as I know. Now, if it is under the house obviously you have to deal with it, but if it is not if
they can really you know decisively say yes here it is or here it isn't. Why not just let them fix up their
house, the house is not the crown jewel of Russell Harris Road, and I do not mean to insult you by saying
that.
Mrs. White-Which time?
Mr. Jarrett-It does need some work. The whole neighborhood would benefit if the house was upgraded.
They are being told ok you have got to take a lot of your hard earned money and dump it into a hole in the
ground which does not increase the value of the house. If he took the same money and put it into the
structure you could charge more taxes because his assessment would go up. I do not think his assessment
goes up because he has the nicest holding tank on the road, maybe it does I do not know. If he puts this
into a bigger house or a nicer house you can raise his assessment and collect more money from him. So, I
think it is just sort of silly that I do not think the requirement that he upgrade his septic first really fits here
because he is just trying to correct a deficiency in the current house, he is not trying to build this big
grandiose thing. So, you know the code is very explicit on what constitutes the failure of a system, so let
him upgrade his house tie into the system and if the system fails hey you red tag the house and until you get
a holding tank and no body gets in there. Maybe you just want to take a look. What are their plans for the
house, find out where the septic really is and if everything looks ok let they use the one they got and take
their money and put it in their house. If the thing fails then you fix it, but don't fix it until it is broken.
Councilman Brewer-Maybe they want to do a preventative type of thing, fix the septic make sure it
accommodates. .
Mr. Jarrett-Well if they want to spend a lot of money for a big hole in the ground you know, I am just
saying that maybe the requirements doesn't really fit because they are not going from a little house to a big
house. I do not think there are any expectation that there is an increase in tendency here so if he can use the
current system let him use it. Let him spend his money on better things.
Supervisor Brower-Thank you. Would anyone else care to comment on this application before us.
Mr. Leon Spath-I am Leon Spath and I am adjacent to the gentlemen that was just here. In otherwords I am
twenty five feet from this property. I do not see any problem with the existing plan. The only thing that
concerns me is I want to be sure that the town realizes that there is a drainage system there and we do not
want it changed. The last administration issued a variance on the property south of me and we were at the
hearing we expressed our sincere feelings about the drainage system. They issued the variance allowed
them to fill completely cutting off all the drainage from this section. It ended up going through me. Now, I
had a hassle with the town, Mr. Merrill is behind me and he was involved in it. Mr. Champagne, Mr.
Naylor I had the whole town there. They said the drainage was their problem. They never, never
addressed it. I had to address it myself. My attorney got involved he never got a response from the town.
So, I did what I had to do. Now all the storm water that is going across tis property and everything up hill
is coming out on my front lawn. That was my only alternative. It was going through my cellars and I went
through the Town it is a Town road by use but unfortunately it was a situation where Mr. Naylor and a lot
of people are aware of it, it never got corrected. I had to do it myself. I do not want to see them change
this it can be worked on but don't stop the drainage going through this property. I would be happy to see it
stopped because that is two more places that doesn't go through me. But, my neighbor to the north and
Mike is here the next neighbor if they do end up, if they grade this so that drainage stops Mike is going to
stop it then Bob White is going to stop it and it is then, the next part is H Russell Harris property. They can
keep stopping that when it reaches H Russell Harris it is going to end up going down the road. Then the
Town is going to be concerned. So, that is my main concern and that is the only reason we are here tonight
is to be sure that he Town realizes that there is a drainage problem there, in that you don't ignore it and
allow them to, they can fill on top but keep the tile and keep the drainage going through there, because if
they don't it is just going to progressively back up. Then the landowners have no alternative but to fill and
keep backing it up and after you get through three landowners it is going to come right down your town
road. This is my main concern, is that these people when this problem is presented to them or should it be
presented to them, they do not have to go through the hassle with the Town that I did. There is files in the
Lake George Park Commission every letter that was ever written, by attorney letters, there is one letter that
isn't in there and that was the first one that Mr. Naylor received, that did not get in the record because I
never got it. But, it's a problem and I do not want to see
Supervisor Brower-Mr. Spath is this road drainage that you are referring to?
Mr. Spath-Pardon, me?
Supervisor Brower-Is it road, is it?
Mr. Spath-This is surface drainage all the storm water, all the unfortunately the road goes right through our
property, it is a road by use. It splits all of these parcels and the town always claimed that it was their
responsibility. But, back before it became a town road everybody took care of the drainage themselves.
When this transpired it always went south of me through the adjacent neighbors into a ravine. Well, they
deemed it wasn't their responsibility and they stopped it up. The old tile still even exists. Now there is
drainage on both sides of that road, the Town did put a four inch tile in Mr. Naylor did put a four inch tile
in south of here but then he relied on my neighbors to continue it on. It functions but it siphons it was
never actually done right. But, the west side of this road that is the dark spot it was never addressed in tile
and it used to come down and cross that road. When they dam it up it came right down through and went
through both my cellars and in spring time you had our inches of water coming out of the front cellar door.
But, in my only alternative was to tile it run it down, I have two places and I dug by hand put catch basins
in and ran it right down between my two camps. But, I cannot discharge into the lake that is illegal so I
have a discharge basin in the front of my south residence. In the spring of the year it comes out there, that
is the only place that it can go. So, everybody is aware of it. Like I say, my attorney wrote the Town and
asked them what they were going to do this was before they paved the road. All this transpired the same
relative point in time and they never got any response. He wrote another letter three months later and never
got a response asking the town what they were going to do, no response. Then they proceeded to raise the
road, blacktop it across me, previously they stopped at my line they did not know where to go. But, at that
point in time with the neighbors pushing them and they raised the grade of the road which was sometlmg
that I did not want to do to begin with. When this thing first transpired the first people I called was the
Park Commission, they came down and looked at it but they were skittish about causing any friction and
the problem did not exist when they were their so they tended to ignore it. But they have all the paper work
all the town records and all the letters that Mr. Champagne sent to me I sent to, and it is in a file, saying that
the drainage is the towns responsibility. But, what I do not want is to see my neighbors to the north of me
go through the same thing that I had to go through. It is completely unnecessary and as long as you realize
that the drainage is there and don't allow it to be blocked that is the whole purpose of me being here. Not
so much for me, I don't care it is all the less water that is going to go through me. But, I don't that was the
natural drainage and I do not want to see my neighbors go through the same problem that I had. The
aggravation and the inconvenience and the leal fees, it should not have to happen. That is all I have to say,
thank you.
Supervisor Brower-Would anyone else like to comment on the application before us?
Mr. Mike Shearer-I am Mike Shearer, I am Nancy's neighbor to the north. I have no problem with what
they are wanting to do although I will make a couple of comments. The distance from that road into where
they want to put their tanks it is long and it is slender and I would really I am an engineer myself, I want to
watch them put the tanks in, because it is wet and soggy on the back side the truck will sink right down in
there. They are going to have to slide them in or some how, there are two big pine trees that if you did dig
the hole and put the tanks in you are probably going to destroy the roots on them at which point they will
die later on. If they want to take the pine trees out I do not mind. There is also a big rock in the vicinity so
you do not know. The rock sticks out there are a lot of bed rock, you do not know how deep the rock goes
where it is. How would they excavate that out? I have seen the plans that they want to do to their home. It
is not umeasonable they have three tiny bedroms, they want to make three reasonable bedrooms. Their
septic systems works there is nothing wrong with it why don't you go for a variance for that to allow them
to keep the septic system and use the one they have and then if it fails then they can go this route. I have no
problems with what they want to do but I do not understand why we can't go for a variance on the current
septic? This is a lot of work.
Supervisor Brower-Would anyone else care to address the Board?
Mrs. Gabby Shearer-I guess I do not understand enough about how these things work so if they put these
tanks in do they have to blast to through the ground to get them down in the ground or do they set them on
the ground and throw dirt on top of them? What do they do?
Supervisor Brower-Generally buried, I believe that is their proposal.
Mrs. Gabby Shearer-How deep down is that going to be? Is it going to be four feet into the dirt?
Councilman Stec-Just below the surface.
Mrs. Gabby Shearer-I do not think they are going to be able to get it in without doing a fair amount of
blasting. I was just curious.
Supervisor Brower-Would anyone else care to comment on the application before us this evening? Seeing
no one I will close the public hearing and ask Mr. O'Connor and Mr. Jarrett to come back to the podium.
Town Counsel Hafner-Dennis, can I ask a question?
Supervisor Brower-Yes.
Town Counsel Hafner-I had specifically asked Dave Hatin, Tom Jarrett earlier if this property was a
seasonal residence and I have heard clearly that it was, but I heard Mike say that the intention I think is not
to be a seasonal residence. Is that true.
Attorney O'Connor-I did not say that, I said be aware that the intent to totally renovate this and I presume
build the structure in accordance to what you would do today which would make it capable of being year
round. I do not know that they intend to use it on a year round basis.
Mrs. White-Mike we only have Lake George water, we do not have a well so.
Attorney O'Connor-Nancy is indicating that their water comes from the lake and that will dictate in part the
length of the year that they are use it.
Town Counsel Hafner-I ask that question because I think that is a necessary pre-requisite for the Town
Board to consider the resolution.
Attorney O'Connor-Why?
Town Counsel Hafner-Because I asked that question and I would have done research if I had gotten a
different answer than the one I had gotten. But, my recollection not having had time to research it because
the answer was it was seasonal is that you can only have holding tanks where there is no other reasonable
thing, it is seasonal or it is temporary for some reason like that. ...
Attorney O'Connor-We have sought and obtained approval for other holding tanks on residences that are
clearly year round residences.
Town Counsel Hafner-I would want to research that.
Attorney O'Connor-This board I did I think it is on Assembly Point that went to holding tanks and the
Town of Queensbury
Town Counsel Hafner-I do not remember
Attorney O'Connor-The Morris residence within the last two to three years.
Town Counsel Hafner-Bob Morris?
Attorney O'Connor-Phil. That is a thirteen hundred square foot house that is year round.
Town Counsel Hafner-I do not recall that.
Councilman Brewer-I do not recall that either.
Attorney O'Connor-That is a thirteen thousand square foot house that is year round.
Town Counsel Hafner-I do not recall that.
Councilman Turner-What was the size of the tanks?
Attorney O'Connor-He has five thousand gallons. I have done others in Bolton, I have done others in Lake
George that are year round I have never of any of the applicable codes that I am aware of I have not know
that, that is an issue.
Town Counsel Hafner-I would like time to look into it, that is why I asked the question earlier.
Supervisor Brower-Tom, answering the question about the holding tanks as far as they are buried, how
deep will they be buried.
Mr. Jarrett-It is roughly between tank it is roughly between five and seven feet below grade the bottom of
the tank.
Supervisor Brower-Are they close to the trees that exist?
Mr. Jarrett -Yes, theoretically, well the survey that we presented last year was based on a survey that we did
from my office it was not done by a licensed land surveyor. Based on that theoretically we can get in there
and place the tanks without removing the trees. However the neighbor correctly pointed out that depending
on the root systems and whether or not there is bedrock those trees could be impacted and if they look they
are in danger of coming down they will have to be taken down. But, it looks like we can get them in
without removing the trees. The question also was raised regarding cost and if we comply with the Town's
standard and go with thousand gallon tanks and series four tanks we would be adding, excuse me an
additional thousand gallon tank we would probably be adding about fifteen hundred dollars to the
installation cost. If we go with two tanks to meet the thirty five hundred gallons we are probably looking at
about up to five thousand dollars more in costs and we would need side yard st backs.
Attorney O'Connor-If we add the third tank we are going to go further back toward the issues of drainage
that we tried to avoid.
Councilman Boor-I want to touch on that a little bit from what some of the people's concerns where in the
audience. I think barring terrain changes we do not have any elevation drawings on here. One question I
would have there is no mounding for this tank. In other words where these tanks are going to go the
elevation will stay relatively the same, is that correct?
Mr. Jarrett -Correct.
Councilman Boor-So, the concerns about drainage these things, the water is not going into the ground now,
so you are immediately getting rid of water that is going into the ground so you are going to be less apt to
have problems of saturation. So, your storm water is going to be able to be absorbed more because it is not
already wet. It is not already wet, it is not, it is being hauled out of there that stuff that is coming out of the
residences isn't going into the ground anymore. It is like a sponge and when the sponge is full it cannot
handle anymore so the water goes elsewhere. Well the sponge is going to be dry now. I am, just let me
finish, you can come up here if you want to talk again. I do have concerns about the trees and my question
to that, is it possible without having the location of the trees specifically shown here for these tanks to be
moved farther toward where this damp area is? In other words can you run a longer sewer pipe and go
beyond the trees. I do not know where the trees are
Mr. Jarrett -Yes, we could go farther toward the road we were wishing not to in case we have the
opportunity to put an onsite system in the future if the municipal sewer is not available.
Councilman Boor-How would that effect it?
Mr. Jarrett-How it would effect?
Councilman Boor-How would that be more costly?
Attorney O'Connor-The absorption area would be behind the tanks. In the area reserved.
Mr. Jarrett-Moving the tanks now would not be more costly per sa.
Councilman Boor-You are saying if you have a sewer system it is going to be that is not going to work for
you to have these tanks out here?
Mr. Jarrett-If we propose an on site system in the future and it is approved then moving the tanks to the east
would be detrimental to us.
Attorney O'Connor-It wouldn't be detrimental if you do have municipal sewer.
Councilman Boor-So I am hearing that this, is this permanent or is it temporary, I am hearing both
arguments here.
Mr. Jarrett -The answer is yes. It is hopefully temporary if a municipal sewer comes through it is permanent
otherwise. We reserve the right to come back and propose an on site septic system if we have to in the
future.
Supervisor Brower-And the tanks will have alarms?
Attorney O'Connor-Yea per code.
Supervisor Brower-Further questions of the engineer or
Attorney O'Connor-The neighbors comments we, as to the other comments that we haven't addressed
particularly why we did not ask for a variance to do away with having somebody certify the existing system
and simply go with the existing system by telling you that it worked. I never have found that to be
successful and your code says that we have to be able to certify it. I think which is the problem in order to
do that you would have to dig up the system to determine what it is and when you dig up a system that is an
absorption type system you ruin the system.
Councilman Boor-Quite frankly I am happy with this than what ever is in there.
Supervisor Brower-Mr. Sampson you raised your hand?
Mr. Sampson-Just one quick question, ..the code here areas of high ground water which is part of our water
problem there I believe it is about ten inches below grade, it is pretty high ground water where we are and it
says we need a high ground water determination required with each application submittal. Can we see
that?
Councilman Boor-Application for a septic or holding tank?
Mr. Sampson-For a holding tank, ...
Councilman Boor-You did not finish it that is why I am asking you.
Mr. Sampson-Ok for a holding tank where high ground water conditions exist calculations by registered
engineer addressing tank flotation and mitigating measurers are required. Do we have any of that? ..it is
required with the application.
Town Counsel Hafner-It is not a septic system.
Mr. Jarrett-If you refer, if! can answer that question, if you refer back to our July 25th 2001 application
two years ago, our investigation reveals sand and gravel fill located above dark brown loamy silt and clay.
The fill range from ten inches deep in test pit number two to sixteen inches deep in test pit one. Silt and
clay was modeled indicating seasonal high ground water and should be considered a boundary condition.
Our design at that time proposed a raised system to deal with that seasonal high ground water.
Supervisor Brower-But the tanks are sealed that you are putting in.
Mr. Jarrett -Seasonal high ground water has no bearing on this system other than the fact that we have to use
heavy duty tanks to counteract the flotation problem.
Councilman Boor-Just as an aside to, and I know where you are coming from but I cannot believe that you
would prefer to have septic going in to the ground that has got water ten inches below it, I mean.
Mr. Sampson-No, no I am not saying that. I am saying is this is the law and this is required through the
application and I do not see it. I was just wondered are we allowed to just dismiss these things, well we do
not want to deal with that on this application?
Councilman Boor-No we are not allowed to dismiss them.
Mr. Sampson-So, I would like to see it. I do not think that is asking too much is it?
Mr. Jarrett-We can submit the letter report that we previously submitted to the board as evidence with this
application.
Councilman Boor-That would be fine.
Supervisor Brower-Let Mr. Sampson read that if you would Mr. Jarrett. Ok. Further questions of the
engineer or Mr. O'Connor?
Councilman Brewer-When do you anticipate you want to start this Tom?
Mr. Jarrett-I have not discussed that with my client actually I am not sure what they are proposing as far as
the use this summer and what they are proposing to rebuilding the house.
Mrs. White-I do not know.
Mr. White-Probably this fall.
Councilman Brewer-You think this fall so if we have some question that need to be answered we don't
necessarily have to put you behind schedule or anything.
Councilman Boor-I would if it is possible, and I am not saying how you have to do this I would like to see
the tanks put where they do not disturb the trees that is just a personal preference. I would not count on
sewer going in there, I know there are people out here that are not going to be happy about that but if it
does it is going to be a long, long time from now. That is my opinion.
Attorney O'Connor-As to timing I think you asked the question as to actual construction, we would like to
get your approval this evening so that we can begin the process.
Councilman Brewer-You did not have to even tell me that Mike.
Attorney O'Connor-Oh you knew that, ok. We would like to begin the process that may take more than one
month with other boards. I cannot make the, we will not be able to make the application date deadline
probably by June 15th and so we are going to be looking at the July 15th dead line which will probably
bring us into the August hearings. So, realistically
Councilman Brewer-What I would suggest though is we if we desire to make it a motion to approve this
predicated on whatever question Bob needs to answer and everything fits together in the next day or two.
Attorney O'Connor-At this point
Mr. Jarrett-In deference to Bob I think we are addressing an existing septic problem. I do not think
Councilman Brewer-The only question I had was this question of whether it has to be a season residence
for a holding tank or ...
Town Attorney Hafner-That is why I asked the question.
Mr. Jarrett-I do not believe it does to address a septic problem.
Supervisor Brower-Well it is currently used seasonally, correct?
Attorney O'Connor-Yes.
Town Counsel Hafner-If the Town Board finds it is a seasonal residence and they believe that it is going to
continue then you do not need to wait for me. You do not need to wait. My question was if they were
saying it was a permanent residence I would like time to look into it.
Councilman Boor-We can't guess how it is going to be used we have to deal with what we have. I do not
know, you tell me.
Town Counsel Hafner-If you find that is a seasonal residence you can act.
Attorney O'Connor-Are you saying that you do not believe the Town Board can approve a holding tank for
an existing residence that might be used year round?
Town Counsel Hafner-Mike, what I exactly said was, I asked the specific question earlier so I could find
the answer before tonights meeting. The answer that I was given by the engineer was it was a seasonal
residence. So, I did no further research. I think that is the answer that I would have found the answer if
the answer had come back that it was a permanent residence. It will not take me very long to figure the
answer out but I was not prepared for it based on the facts I was given.
Attorney O'Connor-I guess I do not understand the question though or the distinction.
Town Counsel Hafner-If it is a...the Department of Health rules on when you can use holding tanks have
certain requirements that you have to fit in, in order to use a holding tank.
Attorney O'Connor-If you are talking about Department of Health rules I know that what we are doing we
can do.
Town Counsel Hafner-....into it.
Attorney O'Connor-If you find differently I would be very surprised and I give you three jurisdictions that I
have dealt with in the last year.
Town Counsel Hafner-I heard you but it is my job to represent the town and your job to represent your
client.
Supervisor Brower-Further questions of the engineer? Hearing none. Mr. Salvador
Mr. John Salvador-I would like to comment
Attorney O'Connor-You closed the public hearing?
Town Counsel Hafner-The public hearing is closed.
Mr. Salvador-Would you reopen the public hearing?
Supervisor Brower-Do you have a question?
Mr. Salvador-I have a comment, clarification.
Supervisor Brower-The public hearing is closed, if you had a question we were prepared to potentially
address it.
Mr. Salvador-Could I request that you reopen the public hearing?
Supervisor Brower-No. It is closed. Board members?
Councilman Boor-Tom I have no problem with it as long as Bob finds it is ok I assume it is going to be ok
on the seasonal aspect.
Town Counsel Hafner-If you find that it is seasonal I do not need to do any further research, I have done
enough for that. You can act, if you think it is for permanent than I need some time to act and I may find
that Mike is right. I would have looked up that question if I had known.
Councilman Boor-I understand and I guess my question is
Town Counsel Hafner-That is why I did the digging to find out the question.
Councilman Boor-I would like to pole the board.
Councilman Stec-We could add that to the resolution.
Supervisor Brower-My feeling is it is currently a seasonal use, who can predict the future?
Councilman Boor-I understand that.
Town Counsel Hafner-If you guys find it seasonal I do not have a legal issue.
Councilman Brewer-If we find it is seasonal I have no problem in the world with it. When they go to get
their variances for the improvements if it comes to flurision that is it going to be a year round residence
then we address it then. Can't we put subject ...
Councilman Boor-Can we do that then? I think once we approve this we cannot go back.
Councilman Brewer-If we find Roger that holding tanks only apply to seasonal uses then come for a
variance to make this a year round residence that send up a flag. You have to address the holding tanks. I
would say we ought to be able to put it in our computer with that piece of property.
Town Counsel Hafner-If that is an important legal issue it seems to me that we can easily find the answer
before your next meeting. You have held your public hearing which is required, you are not required to
take any action at all if that's a relevant thing for you. I can find the answer for you tomorrow and you will
be ready to act on it at your next town board meeting. If you are sure that it is a seasonal residence it is
not..
Councilman Brewer-As we sit here today it is a seasonal residence.
Supervisor Brower-It is a seasonal residence today. The only wording that I do not see in this resolution
would be that if municipal sewer does come to that area that they should, they will connect. But I do not
see it in the resolution.
Councilman Boor-They would have to anyway.
Town Counsel Hafner-Tom had said that he had made that part of the application.
Supervisor Brower-Shouldn't we clarify the resolution?
Councilman Boor-But they all have to go on it if it is sewered.
Supervisor Brower-Well that is true if we extend the sewer.
Town Counsel Hafner-Did you make that part of your application, you had said that earlier today, Tom.
Mr. Jarrett-I am looking for the language, I believe that we did.
Town Counsel Hafner-I do not see that in the materials that I have, but I do not have everything. That is
easily to add I can add a paragraph.
Councilman Stec-I would suggest the first Whereas and then also somewhere else in one of the resolves a
phrase just remarking that the property is seasonal use. Like basically .. . reading from the first paragraph
required thirty five hundred gallon capacity tank on property located at the south end of Russell Harris
Road, currently seasonally used, and then maybe something in the resolved. I just think it would be cleaner
if we can ...
Town Counsel Hafner-Is that something that you would like me to add to the resolution?
Councilman Brewer-Why do we have to add that?
Councilman Stec-I think Bob is right I remember seasonaL..
Town Counsel Hafner-It is part of our minutes and it is part of our thing that you have discussed whether or
not it is seasonal.
Supervisor Brower-It is currently being used as a seasonal, seasonal use that is the way I look at it.
Town Counsel Hafner-If you want me to make that a finding that you have I could easily make that a
finding, there is no reason not to.
Councilman Stec- They have stated that it is seasonal I just think it should be in the resolution.
Town Counsel Hafner-..J am surprised at what he said, I talked to the Department of Health and you have
got to fit in boxes, I do not know what all the boxes ...
Attorney O'Connor-I guess my question is part of the factual issue, Mr. White who is here says that
presently this building could be used year round. If you put a heat tape or something on the pipe the water
line, electric tape on the water line, it is heated it is a year round building. They have chosen to use it on a
seasonal basis. So, in the other structure the replacement structure would be of the same nature it would be
used seasonal by them, but it is capable of being used by somebody else on a year round basis. I am not
trying to say that is what I said as far as making sure you had the right impression of what is there or what
will be there. My house at Glen Lake is capable of being used year round I have had friends use it when
they are building and house someplace else for the winter. Occasionally my pipe freezes, it should be
deeper. My supply water.
Town Counsel Hafner-The relevant fact to me is not where what the condition is now, you are coming for
to put in a septic system that meets the code and if you cannot put in the septic system that meets the code
and you have to go to a holding tank then what you have to fit to be able to put the holding tank in is what
the Department of Health rules are when you can put holding tanks in. If I had known that this was going
to be a relevant issue tonight I would have grabbed them again and I answer the question.
Attorney O'Connor-But the rule and regulation that you are talking about states that holding tanks are
intended for use
Town Counsel Hafner-Only in certain circumstances.
Attorney O'Connor-Are only intended for use to meet the above noted exceptions or to correct failing
wastewater treatment systems when no alternative exists. This system is not probably if you can actually
define it a functional system. It has been there sixty years, I do what is there, tell me a system that lasts that
long on a twenty five foot lot. Whether it is even leaching into the adjoining lots would be a violation as
much as if it were leaching to the lake. So, I do not mechanically think or engineering wise think it is a
hard task to say that we have a system that probably is a failing system. These people are willing to put in
a holding system to remedy that issue. I do not know of any alternative.
Mrs. White-May I say one thing, if we could never make anything if all we could do was put down throw
rugs we would still, don't you think it would be better to have a quality system. I do not know when that
system it does not make whether we could do anything else to the house we thought that the septic system
was behind there we would have it pumped out they could tell us something about it. It does not sound
good.
Councilman Boor-My personnel opinion is that holding tanks is the way to go I would prefer to see holding
tanks above anything else here. I would grant variances for it. My question is if in fact, lets take the worse
case scenario of your interpretation of seasonal, lets say it says on a full time year round use you cannot use
a holding tank. Can we grant a variance to that or is that a State mandate.
Town Counsel Hafner-There are other boxes that have to be fit in I only looked for the seasonal one
because that is one that works.
Councilman Boor-I guess where I am going with this though it appears to put any system in there you are
going to need a variance when something, so if we have got to go with a variance one way or the other I
would prefer that it be with holding tanks. But, am I missing the argument that you are trying to make
here?
Town Counsel Hafner-I am not trying to make any argument I said two things, if you find that it is seasonal
you can act tonight. If you are concerned that it is not I have asked for two weeks I can find you the
answer.
Councilman Boor-But when you say concerned.
Supervisor Brower-I think we determined that this was currently a seasonal use.
Town Counsel Hafner-Then you can act, you do not need to go..
Attorney O'Connor-Ok, also the regulation says that even if not seasonal if you have a failing system and
there are no alternatives a holding tank can be approved.
Town Counsel Hafner-I thought that was another standard, there are other ones I thought in there but until
you just said that I have heard no evidence tonight saying that there are no other alternatives. The Town
Board met one alternative that was the denied last year.
Mr. Jarrett-I can address that for the board right now. The investigation we did last year in trying to find
that existing system was for the purpose of documenting what was in the ground. Potentially if it did meet
code we could propose that to be continued. We found instead evidence that it may be under the existing
residence. As unlikely as that seems it should be that is the evidence the contractor came back with. If
that is the case it certainly does not meet any of code and that cannot be continued. The system we
proposed two years ago was the only in site system that we felt we could propose to this Board. So, failing
to gain a variance for that system and with the system that we think exists right now underneath the house
there are no other alternatives.
Supervisor Brower-Board Members? Anyone motion.
Councilman Brewer-One last question for me, the drainage are you going to let the drainage the pattern that
is maintained right now stay the same?
Mr. Jarrett-We will continue the drainage patterns as they now exist.
Supervisor Brower-It is because you are not doing the mounded system, right?
Mr. Jarrett-It really is just a construction issue we will re-grade back to the original grade.
Councilman Brewer-If there is an issue you will take care of it so we can put that on the record?
Mr. Jarrett -Yes. Yes you can.
Councilman Brewer-I do not have a problem with it.
Attorney Hafner-And you want language to the resolution stating that they agreed to connect to a municipal
sewer system if it is ever put into this area, I heard that from one or more of you.
Councilman Boor-That is fine except I do not know what good it does. If it is in a holding tank it is still
going to the same location it just one going into a pipe and another is going in a truck. I think ...
Mr. Jarrett-Well that completes the record a little bit for the Town. If that becomes an alternative in lieu of
a holding tank then the Whites would be glad to connect.
Councilman Boor-But I mean I would have to assume there will be a mandate that every body hook up to it
if they put it there.
Supervisor Brower-Ok. So, I have a motion?
RESOLUTION APPROVING SANITARY SEW AGE DISPOSAL VARIANCES FOR JIM AND
NANCY WHITE
RESOLUTION NO.: 17,2003 BOH
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, Jim and Nancy White filed an application for a variance from provisions of the Town
of Queensbury On-Site Sewage Disposal Ordinance, Chapter 136 to allow a holding tank and another
variance to allow a 2,500 gallon capacity tank in lieu of the required 3,500 gallon capacity tank on property
located at the south end of Russell Harris Road on Cleverdale in the Town of Queensbury, and
WHEREAS, the Town Clerk's Office published the Notice of Public Hearing in the Town's
official newspaper and the Local Board of Health conducted a public hearing concerning the variance
requests on June 2nd, 2003, and
WHEREAS, the Town Clerk's Office has advised that it duly notified all property owners within
500 feet of the subject property,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that
I. due to the nature of the variances, it is felt that the variances would not be materially detrimental to the
purposes and objectives of this Ordinance or other adjoining properties nor otherwise conflict with the
purpose and objectives of any Town plan or policy; and
2. the Local Board of Health finds that the granting of the variances is necessary for the reasonable use of
the land and is the minimum variances which would alleviate the specific unnecessary hardship found by
the Local Board of Health to affect the applicants; and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Local Board of Health hereby approves the application of Jim and Nancy
White for variances from the Sewage Disposal Ordinance to allow a holding tank and for 2,500 gallon
capacity in lieu of 3,500 gallon capacity on property situated at the south end of Russell Harris Road on
Cleverdale in the Town of Queensbury bearing Tax Map No.: 240.5-1-7.
Duly adopted this 2nd day of June, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor
NOES None
ABSENT: None
Discussion held before vote: Supervisor Brower-I personally feel that this will be an improvement to the
current system, it will protect the lake from further pollution. The smaller size tank should meet the needs
of the household and yet prevent some other potential problems of a larger system if we did require it.
RESOLUTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING ON SEWAGE DISPOSAL VARIANCE APPLICATION
OF STEPHEN MORRISSEY
RESOLUTION NO.: 18,2003 BOH
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board serves as the Town's Local Board of Health and is
authorized by Town Code Chapter 136 to issue variances from the Town's On-Site Sewage Disposal
Ordinance, and
WHEREAS, Stephen Morrissey has applied to the Local Board of Health for variances from the
provisions of Chapter 136 to install two (2), 8' x 8' seepage pits eighteen feet (18') from the foundation in
lieu of the required twenty feet (20') setback and one foot (1 ') from the front property line in lieu of the
required ten feet (10') setback on property located at 15 Northup Drive, Queensbury,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Local Board of Health for the Town of Queensbury will hold a public
hearing on June 16th, 2003 at 7:00 p.m. at the Queensbury Activities Center, 742 Bay Road, Queensbury,
to consider Stephen Morrissey's sewage disposal variance application concerning property located at 15
Northup Drive, Queensbury (Tax Map No.: 302.14-2-40) and at that time all interested persons will be
heard, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Local Board of Health authorizes and directs the Queensbury Town Clerk to
publish the Notice of Public Hearing presented at this meeting and send a copy of the Notice to neighbors
located within 500 feet ofMr. Morrissey's property as required by law.
Duly adopted this 2nd day of June, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner
NOES
None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING TOWN BOARD MEETING
RESOLUTION NO. 19.2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Board of Health hereby adjourns its session and moves back into the
Queensbury Town Board.
Duly adopted this 2nd day of June, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
2.0 CORRESPONDENCE
2.1 QUEENSBURY TRANSFER STATION MONTHY REPORT - MAY 2003 ON FILE
3.0 INTRODUCTION OF RESOLUTIONS FROM THE FLOOR
Councilman Brewer-Introduced Resolution 5.9 A resolution setting a public hearing on W.G.F. Vol. Fire
Co. proposal to purchase one F550 Ford Brush Truck
Councilman Turner-Seconded
Supervisor Brower-Requested further discussion.
Councilman Boor-I will just say that when this was first brought to our attention it was kind of off the cuff
and we were un-expecting of it. We were talking about a roof on the fire house...but Ted and I did go out
and look at it and yes it only has eighty five hundred miles on it, it is not what you want to see fighting
brush fires. They do need to get a new truck. We did receive a verbal assurance that their conversion of
the old truck the ems vehicle the cost would be totally born by their fund not the towns. It was an old truck
and it showed it so mileage isn't everything.
Supervisor Brower-It is a 1985 truck with about nine thousand miles on it and I guess the problem I have
with it is we agreed to help the fire company with their roof which will cost anywhere we do not know for
sure exactly yet, although we did see some bids. I think we agreed to take care of that cost but since it is a
1985 it is technically two years before a twenty year replacement time frame which I think is a reasonable
time frame. They did indicate if they purchased a new one they would have a twenty year replacement
cycle on the new one. By enabling them to keep the existing vehicle even if they retain the existing vehicle
and they pay for its conversion to an ems vehicle they still have, that is an expansion of the fleet in effect
that you have another vehicle so somewhere down the line that is going to potentially be replaced and who
is going to pay for that. Is that going to be the taxpayer costs or is that going to be the fire company's cost?
So, I guess at this time I have a problem with it. I will point out to the Board that South Queensbury at our
next workshop will present a need for a new brush truck. They have a 1958 brush truck that they want to
replace. That was scheduled for replacement this year, where W.G.F. brush truck was not scheduled for
replacement this year.
4.0 OPEN FORUM
Mr. Doug Irish-Doug Irish 8 Buena Vista Avenue Is a deed restriction different from a covenant? I was
under the assumption that deed restrictions were solely a civil matter for enforcement I am wondering how
the Town Board can?
Town Counsel Hafner-They are similar...it is what the language says that matters...
Councilman Stec-We own the property.
Mr. Irish-Re: Brush Truck Concern is although the fire department bears the expense of converting the
vehicle they are also expanding their fleet ...
Mr. Bruce Lyman-1O Willow Road How many school districts are in the jurisdiction of the Town of
Queensbury.
Councilman Stec-Four
Mr. Lyman-No. I From what I read in the paper and seem to understand a resolution was passed at the last
Town Board Meeting authorizing the spending of nineteen thousand two hundred dollars for a recreation
commission report. This report seems to be focused on the Town's participation in building a recreational
center in conjunction with ACC. From where I sit as a resident and a business owner who's companies
write and provides similar commission report I question the methodology used as being potentially short
sighted depending on what side of the isle you sit on. Nineteen thousand two hundred dollars is under the
twenty thousand dollar spending threshold for an RFP. The release of this resolution with out a RFP is
really a questionable practice. We understand that from what I believe Mr. Irish had received two solid
recommendations from local officials in determining his recommendation to Mr. Stec. But, not only our
company but other companies would liked to have respond to a potential RFP in the firt place. The
strategiousness of the relationship to the college represents as well as significance for the mater plan of the
Town of Queensbury certainly seems to warrant due diligence for opening up your process. We understand
the sensitivity and the timeliness for the commission report as it seems that some board members would
like to float a referendum to the public this November. We actually think a referendum for November 2003
might potentially be premature for your project and again would potentially provided a different strategy to
the board. Again if allowed to respond to what really should have been an RFP in the first place.
Secondly, I humbly would like to recommend to the Board to look into a one time resolution to rebate the
loss of State Aid Funding for the four local school districts which are made up in the Towns jurisdiction. I
do not particularly understand the town legality or the political process for this resolution to be passed. But
here is my thought process. With the scale of eonomics driving up the costs of education the local home
owner property owner and business owner could use a tax break by having the town rebate the school
districts lost state aid. Not know what the combined loss was, lets say for example it is a million dollars
and the Town of Queensbury has a surplus of lets say seven to nine million dollars or whatever the exact
figure is these does seem to exist a significant surplus. By rebating the property owners for a one time tax
credit would send a clear sensitive message to the community. Our Town is fortunate enough to have
several very valuable assets in our region. And our School District represent our communities for the
future. By writing four different checks to each of the school districts would allow each district not to have
the difficult decisions for faculty cuts and resources. The significance of this good fiscal master planning
would far outshine the direct and indirect economic impact to our towns communities. We could do a
study on this proces but that would require an RFP. In any case both points raised here would seem to
represent good stewardships in our eyes by the Town of Queensbury Board. Thank you.
Mr. Bob Gilman-Board Member WGF Fire Co. Noted the truck was on a ten year replacement when it was
bought in 1985. Second, the truck is not increasing the fleet when it goes to EMS because we took a unit
out of service in March of 2002, Rescue 113. RE: Roof Told to hold off on the roofto cut costs, that is
why it has to be replaced at this time.
Mr. Salvador-RE: Holding Tanks Noted Mr. Hafner is 100% right The public health code does not permit
holding tanks in year round residences. It is impossible to build other than a year round residence if you
are renovating a building. The use makes no difference it is the construction of the building. Noted the
Morris tanks were approved because it was considered a renovation...noted once you touch the drainage
system it is new construction....noted the holding tanks are illegal since granted. RE: Great Escapes
project delay...What does this do for the Town plan for sewering of Route 9?
Councilman Boor-Re: pedestrian over pass- my understanding is the engineering and easements are in
place and they are not going to interfere with the footings for this thing...Chis will be contacting Mr.
Lemery and Mr. Collins to find out why they are not proceeding with that.
Mr. Salvador-If they lose the need to have wastewater discharge are they going to be interested in
participating in this project?
Supervisor Brower-They are going to participate.
Mr. Salvador-RE: Sales Tax on Great Escape admission fees. Read statement. I have learned that officials
from the Great Escape met with the Post Star Editorial Board in order to clarify the matter of sales tax due
on admission fees charged at the local fun park. It seems the more both private and public officials speak to
rationalize the Great Escape sales tax treatment of the parks admission fee the more confusing and
entangled the matter becomes. Firstly, Mr. Collins is dead wrong when it comes to over taxing patrons.
There is no law prohibiting over taxing of patrons. There is no law. There is however a regulation that
requires that all sales taxes collected be remitted so you cannot keep them is the point. Lest we forget State
Finance Article 23 Section 1105 paragraph Fl mandates that licensed vendors impose a sales or
compensating use tax on any admission charge where such admission charge is in excess of ten cents to or
for the use of any place of amusement in the state. Further that except for carges to a patron for admission
to or use of facilities for sporting activities in which a patron is to be a participant such as bowling alleys
and swimming pools there is an exemption for such admission charges. These types of patron activities are
commonly referred to as participatory sporting activities. Skiing is another good example of such a non
sales taxable activity. Putting aside the fact that the Great Escape has not complied with a long standing
regulations and department of taxation advisory opinions related to a tax exemption allowed for separately
stated unlimited use of rides within the park. We now read where there are available within the park
certain free amusements and attractions. Amusements and attractions which are not participatory sporting
activities are in fact taxable entities according to title 20 NYCRR subchapter J Part 527 Section 527.10.
The definition of an admission charge is the amount paid for admissions, season tickets or subscription to
any place of amusement includin any service charge or any charge for entertainment or amusement or for
the use of the facilities therefore. Where has the notion come from that the Great Escape is anything other
than a place of amusement? See your local yellow page ad, attached is a copy of the Great Escapes
presentation from the local telephone directory as an amusement place. The Great Escape features over a
hundred and twenty five rides as well as shows and attractions. Admission to shows and attractions are
taxable. Now, then for a recap. For a mere two dollars and eighty cent admission charge a patron entering
the Great Escape receives taxable services which include, admission to the fun park, all day parking,
admission to shows within the fun park, admission to attractions within the fun park as well as free use of
non participatory sporting activities within the fun park. What a deal. Clearly they, the advertisement sells
as amusement places and as an amusement place they are obligated to collect and remit sales tax on the
amission fee, it is as plain and simple as that.
Attorney Mike O'Connor-I am speaking individually and behalf of myself. I know recently that the
commission has agreed or is in the process of buying property on Glen Lake to expand the existing car top
access to the lake. Noted he had no problem with the expansion concerned that no provisions have been
made for any septic facility for the people that would use this access. Noted the lake is used for drinking
water. Requested that the Town address this situation.
Chairman Doug Irish-Speaking on behalf of the Recreation Commission as its Chairman. Noted they will
try to provide septic system for seasonal use...
Mr. John Salvador-Re: Septic pumpers noted the size of the trucks used for pumping and the odor
emanating from said trucks, the intensity of traffic should be part of the SEQRA review.
Mr. Paul Naylor-Division Road Re: discussion of Russell Harris Road Noted highway is only ten feet
wide, the Town Board is in charge of drainage, when water comes off people's land I do not think that the
Town Board should take care of it that is my own opinion. Noted he was at that time in charge of the roads
and noted he was right for the record.
Mr. Tom Jarrett-Re: Glen Lake property That property may be a candidate for a compo sting type toilets ...
Mr. Pliney Tucker-41 Division Road Re: Sewer deal with City of Glens Falls are the figures available?
Comptroller Henry Hess-They are available but not at this meeting.
Mr. Pliney Tucker-RE: tax relief Could any of the surplus be used to reduce the indebtedness of the fire
companies and emergency squads?
Councilman Stec-Noted that we cannot do that. We can put it to a rebate to you against the increase in
County taxes, what ever the County budget is, wherever that tax rate comes in you get so many cents per
thousand credit because the Town paid part of your tax bill for you.
5.0 RESOLUTIONS
RESOLUTION APPROVING YEAR 2002 SERVICE AWARD PROGRAM RECORDS FOR
NORTH QUEENSBURY VOLUNTEER FIRE CO., INC.
RESOLUTION NO.:
270,2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY:
Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board previously authorized engagement ofPENFLEX, Inc.,
to provide the 2002 Standard Year End Administration Services for the Town's Volunteer Fire Companies
Service A ward Program, and
WHEREAS, as part of the Service Award Program, it is necessary that the Town Board approve
each Fire Company's Year 2002 Service Award Program Records, and
WHEREAS, the Town Supervisor's Office has received and reviewed the records from the North
Queensbury Volunteer Fire Company, Inc. and found them to be complete, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to approve these records,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves the 2002 Volunteer Fire
Company Service Award Program Records for the North Queensbury Volunteer Fire Company, Inc., and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor and/or
Town Comptroller to take all action necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 2nd day of June, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec
NOES None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION TO AMEND 2003 BUDGET
RESOLUTION NO.: 271,2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, the attached Budget Amendment Requests have been duly initiated and justified and
are deemed compliant with Town operating procedures and accounting practices by the Town Comptroller,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Comptroller's Office to take all action necessary to transfer funds and amend the 2003 Town Budget as
follows:
WATER:
FROM:
TO:
$ AMOUNT:
40-8310-4400
Contr. )
40-8310-2010
(Office Equip./Furn.)
93. (Misc.
Duly adopted this 2nd day of June, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer
NOES
None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ENGAGEMENT OF C.T. MALE ASSOCIATES, P.c. TO PREPARE
ANNUAL POST-CLOSURE LANDFILL MONITORING REPORT FOR YEARS 2003 THROUGH 2007
RESOLUTION NO.: 272, 2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 103,2003, the Queensbury Town Board authorized engagement
of C.T. Male Associates, P. C. (C.T. Male) to prepare a request forre-evaluation oflandfill post -closure
monitoring requirements in connection with the Ridge Road landfill, in an effort to reduce the landfill
groundwater and surface water monitoring requirements, and
WHEREAS, the Town's Solid Waste Facilities Manager has advised that C.T. Male completed the
work authorized by Resolution No.: 103,2003 and the New York State Department of Environmental
Conservation did reduce the Town's landfill groundwater and surface water monitoring requirements, and
WHEREAS, the Solid Waste Facilities Manager now recommends that the Town Board engage
C.T. Male to prepare the annual post-closure landfill monitoring report for years 2003 through 2007, and
WHEREAS, c.T. Male has offered to provide these services for an amount not to exceed $3,285,
including miscellaneous reimbursables, as delineated in c.T. Male's Proposal dated May 5th, 2003
presented at this meeting and as follows:
* 2003 Post-Closure Landfill Monitoring Report $ 595.00 * 2004 Post-Closure Landfill Monitoring
Report $ 625.00 * 2005 Post-Closure Landfill Monitoring Report $ 655.00 * 2006 Post-Closure
Landfill Monitoring Report $ 685.00 * 2007 Post-Closure Landfill Monitoring Report $
715.00 Total Years 2003 through 2007 $3,285.00
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the engagement of
C.T. Male Associates, P.c., to prepare the annual post-closure landfill monitoring report for years 2003
through 2007 in connection with the Ridge Road landfill, as delineated in C.T. Male's Proposal dated May
5th, 2003 and presented at this meeting, for an amount not to exceed $3,285, including miscellaneous
reimbursables, to be paid for from Account No.: 910-8160-4002, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town's Solid Waste Facilities
Manager, Town Comptroller and/or Town Supervisor to execute any documentation and take such other
and further action as may be necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 2nd day of June, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING PROMOTION OF SUSAN SHEEHAN FROM WATER PLANT
OPERATOR TRAINEE TO WATER PLANT OPERATOR I AT TOWN WATER TREATMENT PLANT
RESOLUTION NO. 273, 2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, the Town Water Superintendent has recommended that the Town Board authorize the
promotion of Susan Sheehan from Water Plant Operator Trainee to Water Plant Operator I at the Town's
Water Treatment Plant, and
WHEREAS, the Water Superintendent has advised that Ms. Sheehan has passed the departmental
test for the position and has the required job experience, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to authorize the requested promotion,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the promotion of
Susan Sheehan from Water Plant Operator Trainee to Water Plant Operator I at the Town Water Treatment
Plant effective June 9th, 2003 at the rate of pay specified in the Town's CSEA Union Agreement for the
position for the year 2003, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor, Water
Superintendent and/or Town Comptroller to complete any forms and take any action necessary to effectuate
the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 2nd day of June, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor
NOES
None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ADDITIONAL CONSTRUCTION PHASE ENGINEERING
SERVICES PROVIDED BY JARRETT-MARTIN ENGINEERS, PLLC IN CONNECTION WITH
SOUTH QUEENSBURY-QUEENSBURY AVENUE SEWER DISTRICT
RESOLUTION NO.: 274,2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 341,2002, the Queensbury Town Board authorized engagement
of Jarrett -Martin Engineers, PLLC (JME) for construction phase services in connection with the creation of
the South Queensbury - Queensbury Avenue Sewer District for an amount not to exceed $89,400, and
WHEREAS, JME has advised that due to several factors, including additional construction time
resulting from an extended construction schedule caused in part by a severe winter and other factors outside
of its control, JME will incur additional engineering expenses in the approximate amount of $20,000 as
delineated in JME's May 28th, 2003 letter to the Town's Deputy Wastewater Director presented at this
meeting,
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to authorize a $20,000 increase in the total amount of
construction phase engineering services to be paid to JME,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes the additional construction
phase services to be performed by Jarrett-Martin Engineers, PLLC in connection with the South
Queensbury - Queensbury Avenue Sewer District, as described in the preambles of this Resolution and as
set forth in JME's May 28th, 2003 letter presented at this meeting in the amount of $20,000, bringing the
total construction phase engineering services amount for the Project to $109,400, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board authorizes and directs that payment for the additional
construction phase services in an amount not to exceed $20,000 shall be paid for through the transfer of
funds from Capital Project Account No.: 135-1990-4417 Contingent Account to Capital Project Account
No.: 1325-8150-4403 Engineer/Surveyor, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor,
Wastewater Director and/or Wastewater Deputy Director to sign any documentation and take such action as
may be necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 2nd day of June, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner
NOES
None
ABSENT: None
Discussion held before vote: Supervisor Brower-Proposal to increase Mr. Jarrett's contract by $20,000.
reason for additional cost is work related to EDA and DEC funding and grant administration
work...additional work on easements including negotiating terms of the Apolo Dr. agreement a resurvey
and redesign of the route through Apolo Drive property due to construction requirements, additional time
coordinating with Nimo for right of way easements and coordination with neighboring property owners
including Qsby. Industrial Park regarding Route modification service connections and revised easements.
June 23, 2003 for substantial completion and July 3, 2003 for final completion of project. Councilman
Brewer-Questioned why there are changes? Noted whatever we bid it always comes in more..my
contention is when I sell something to customers I sell a product give them a price on it and if they say they
want to buy it that is what I get for it whether the price goes up or what happens, I do not understand why
tha does not happen in government. Mr. Jarrett-Noted the original proposal was based on a certain amount
of time for construction observation in the field, that has been exceeded, based on four months of full time
plus three months of part time construction observation noted that should the construction period be
shortened or extended costs will increase or decrease accordingly. Already seen seven months of
construction observation...Mr. Shaw-Noted the winter weather was a problem on this project...Noted that
there is a request in for a time extension on the construction work... Comptroller Hess-This change does not
increase the price of the budgeted amount of the project because the project had a contingency for these
purposes and this money will be taken from the contingency. Mr. Shaw-noted there will also be a change
order coming in for rock, fifty thousand dollars for Kilby Bros. The current contingency balance is ninety
two thousand dollars. Mr. Jarrett-Noted that he came under budget on design.
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ADVERTISEMENT FOR BIDS FOR CONTRACT I - ROUTE 9
SEWER DISTRICT
RESOLUTION NO.: 275,2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 444,2002, the Queensbury Town Board authorized engagement
of C.T. Male Associates, P. C. (C.T. Male) for design, contract administration and construction observation
services in connection with the creation of the Route 9 Sewer District, and
WHEREAS, by Town Board Resolution No.: 113,2003 the Town Board adopted its Final Order
approving creation of the Route 9 Sewer District, and
WHEREAS, C. T. Male has prepared bid documents and specifications to advertise for bids for
Contract I of the Route 9 Sewer Project, the first of several Contracts to be awarded in serving the District,
which will generally include the area from Quaker Road north to the Warren County Bike Path at its
intersection with Sweet Road, from Sweet Road to Route 9 north to Kendrick Road, and west along Weeks
Road to the new pumping station which will provide service to Whispering Pines apartments and future
district extensions along Weeks Road, and
WHEREAS, Contract I will consist of the installation of approximately 2700 lineal feet of 8"
gravity sewer, 6150 lineal feet of 12" gravity sewer, 1660 lineal feet of 6" force main, along with building
laterals, manholes and a sewage pumping station on Weeks Road, and
WHEREAS, General Municipal Law ~ 103 requires that the Town advertise for bids and award the
bid to the lowest responsible bidder meeting New York State statutory requirements and the requirements
set forth in the Town's bid documents and specifications,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town Clerk to
post and publish an advertisement for bids to be prepared by C.T. Male Associates, P.c., for Contract I of
the Route 9 Sewer District and receive all bids, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town's Acting Purchasing
Agent to open all received bids, read them aloud and record the bids as is customarily done and present the
bids to the next regular or special meeting of the Town Board.
Duly adopted this 2nd day of June, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec
NOES None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ENGAGEMENT OF CUSACK & COMPANY, CERTIFIED PUBLIC
ACCOUNT ANTS TO AUDIT TOWN OF QUEENSBURY FIRE COMPANIES AND EMERGENCY
SQUADS
RESOLUTION NO.: 276,2003
INTRODUCED BY:
Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY:
Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board previously authorized engagement of the services of
Cusack & Company, CPA's (Cusack) to audit the Town of Queensbury's financial statements and also audit
the Town's Fire Companies and Emergency Squads in 1997, and
WHEREAS, Cusack has offered to audit the Town's Fire Companies and Emergency Squads at a
cost not to exceed $8,000 as more specifically set forth in its letter dated May 9th, 2003 and presented at
this meeting, and
WHEREAS, the Town Comptroller has recommended engagement of the services of Cusack
because of Cusack's familiarity with both Town recordkeeping and Town emergency service providers,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes engagement of the services of
Cusack & Company, CPA's to audit the Town's Fire Companies and Emergency Squads for an amount not
to exceed $8,000 as more specifically set forth in Cusack's May 9th, 2003 letter presented at this meeting,
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that payment for these services shall be paid for from Account No.: 005-3410-4401,
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town Comptroller's Office to
take all action needed to transfer $3,000 from Account No.: 005-3410-4400 to Account No.: 005-3410-
4401 and amend the 2003 Town Budget accordingly, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor and/or
Town Comptroller to sign any documentation and take any and all action necessary to effectuate the terms
of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 2nd day of June, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor
NOES None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING TERMINATION OF DEED RESTRICTION CONCERNING
PROPERTY OF RICHARD AND MONIQUE CUNNINGHAM D/B/A P.c. REALTY II
RESOLUTION NO.: 277,2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 196 of 1986, the Queensbury Town Board determined that a 3.22
acre parcel of land on Quaker Road was surplus Town Property and accepted a bid from Richard and
Monique Cunningham, d/b/a P.c. Realty, II (Cunninghams) to purchase such property from the Town, such
property identified in a deed dated December 3, 1986 and recorded at the Warren County Clerk's Office at
Book 687, Page 695, and
WHEREAS, the purchase and sale was contingent upon the timely development of the parcel so
that sales tax revenues would be generated to the benefit of the Town, and
WHEREAS, the deed included a restriction that the Cunninghams begin construction prior to
March I, 1988 of at least a 6,000 square foot commercial structure and providing that the Cunninghams
could not sell or convey any interest in the property to any unrelated party without first offering the
property to the Town at the original purchase price, and
WHEREAS, the Cunninghams accepted and filed the Deed with this Deed restriction, and
WHEREAS, the Cunninghams did not comply with the terms of the deed restriction and develop
the property as required, and
WHEREAS, the Town commenced legal action in Supreme Court in an attempt to enforce the
Deed restriction, and
WHEREAS, the Cunninghams, through Counsel, have now offered the Town of Queensbury
twenty-thousand dollars ($20,000) in exchange for the Town terminating the deed restriction and the
Town's rights in the property, and
WHEREAS, by eliminating the deed restriction, the Cunninghams will have clear record title
which they feel is vital to an impending business transaction that will not only serve their interests, but will
benefit the Town due to future increased real property and sales tax revenues, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board has carefully considered the Cunninghams' offer, and
WHEREAS, the Town has no immediate need for the property, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board believes $20,000 represents fair compensation for elimination of the
deed restriction, and
WHEREAS, the Cunninghams are agreeable to closing on the exchange of funds for the
elimination of the deed restriction on or before June 20th, 2003, and
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby determines that the termination of the deed
restriction referenced in the preambles of this Resolution concerning the 3.22 acre parcel of land owned by
Richard and Monique Cunningham, d/b/a P.c. Realty, II will benefit the Town of Queensbury and its
residents both by generating revenue now and encouraging development of the property which will
generate increased real property and sales tax revenues and therefore the Town Board approves and
authorizes the termination of the deed restriction in exchange for twenty-thousand dollars ($20,000) from
Richard and Monique Cunningham, d/b/a P.c. Realty, II with the condition that the closing on the
exchange of funds for the elimination of the deed restriction occur on or before June 20th, 2003, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board authorizes the Town Comptroller to take any action needed to
deposit the twenty-thousand dollars ($20,000) in the appropriate account and amend the 2003 Town Budget
accordingly, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board authorizes and directs Town Counsel to discontinue the action
pending in Supreme Court, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to execute
any documents, including an Agreement to extinguish the Deed Restriction, to provide for the termination
of the deed restriction and authorizes the Town Supervisor and/or Town Counsel to take such other and
further actions as may be necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 2nd day of June, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES None
ABSENT: None
6.0 ACTION OF RESOLUTIN PREVIOUSLY INTRODUCED FROM THE FLOOR
RESOLUTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING ON WEST GLENS FALLS VOLUNTEER FIRE
COMPANY, INc.'S PROPOSAL TO PURCHASE ONE (1) F550 FORD BRUSH TRUCK
RESOLUTION NO.: 278. 2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury and the West Glens Falls Volunteer Fire Company, Inc.
(Fire Company) have entered into an Agreement for fire protection services, which Agreement sets forth a
number of terms and conditions including a condition that the Fire Company will not purchase or enter into
any binding contract to purchase any piece of apparatus, equipment, vehicles, real property, or make any
improvements that would require the Fire Company to acquire a loan or mortgage or use money placed in a
"vehicles fund II without prior approval of the Queensbury Town Board, and
WHEREAS, the Fire Company has advised the Town Board that it wishes to purchase one (1) new
2003 F-550 Ford Brush Truck for a sum not to exceed $76,000, and
WHEREAS, the Fire Company Agreement with the Town only has $40,000 in it for this type of
purchase, and
WHEREAS, the Fire Company plans on paying for the Brush Truck by using funds from its Year
2003 Restricted Vehicle Fund, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board feels that this new vehicle will provide additional safety protection
for the Town, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to set a public hearing concerning the proposed Brush Truck
purchase,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board shall conduct a public hearing concerning the
proposed purchase of one (1) new 2003 F-550 Ford Brush Truck by the West Glens Falls Volunteer Fire
Company, Inc. on June 16th, 2003 at 7:00 p.m., and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that this public hearing shall be conducted concerning amendment of the existing
Agreement so the Town will provide not more than $38,000 in additional funds under the Agreement so the
Fire Company can provide the additional safety that will result from having this new vehicle, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Queensbury Town Clerk to
publish a Notice of Public Hearing in the Post-Star Newspaper once at least ten (10) days prior to the
Public Hearing.
Duly adopted this 2nd day of June, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Boor
NOES
Mr. Brower
ABSENT: None
Discussion held before vote: Town Counsel Hafner-requested some clarification in the resolution and this
was accepted by the Board...
Supervisor Brower-Indicated that South Queensbury Fire Company will come before the Board regarding
the use of a Humvee to be turned into a brush truck...$47,500.
7.0 TOWN BOARD DISCUSSIONS
Councilman Boor-RE: Televising of Town Board Meetings...
Supervisor Brower-Gentleman from ACC was out of town ... noted TV8 proposal in the mail.
Councilman Stec-Noted the televising this Board meetings would be a great service to our public.
Question the status of the Bay Road Sewer Transportation Corp.?
Town Counsel Hafner-We expect to get their proposal within the next week or so...
Councilman Brewer-Noted receiving a letter from Joan Dillon regarding mobile home...
Town Counsel Hafner-Suggested that Shelter Planning review it.
Supervisor Brower-Asked Mr. VanDusen to speak to the Board.
Water Superintendent Ralph VanDusen-Presented the Town Board with samples from the million gallon
concrete water tank 46' high five foot of that in the ground on Gurney Lane...tank was built seven years ago
each year the tank has a visual inspection, this year in February there is a man way near the bottom of the
tank started to leak, waited until the ice melted before the water could be drained...found thousands of
flakes of concrete at the base of the tank which had fallen off the sides of the tank.. tank was designed to
last sixty or seventy years...Contacted c.T. Male to view the tank he had never seen anything like this..he
contacted the manufacturer and last week we went inside the tank for the first time and looked at it from the
inside. 85-90% of the interior surface has failed on the tank...we will have to determine the structural
integrity of the tank. There are nineteen panels, two of which look brand new, seventeen panels have
failed. Noted the best guess is when the tank goes through a freezethaw cycle each year that water was
getting into that interior layer of concrete freezing and causing this to bust free. We have been assured by
the manufacturer that there are firms capable of doing tests on the concrete to see exactly what caused it
and determine a proper course of action. Noted that the tank has been taken out of service. Hope to hear
from the manufacturer in the next week or two with their recommendation. Also, expecting a proposal
from the engineering firm to guide us thorough the technical aspect of that.
8.0 ATTORNEY MATTERS
Supervisor Brower-Town Counsel Hafner and I met with Mr. & Mrs. Hay today along with Attorney
McPhillips to close on the Glen Lake Property, that will be filed tomorrow. Noted the survey is done
completed on the other parcel on Meadowbrook, that will be in the future.
Comptroller Hess-Noted the audit has been completed it will be published by the first meeting in July.
Noted a couple management recommendations in the audit that are routine I will make you aware of them
in a workshop. Regarding the fund balance that was reviewed by the auditor and he was favorable of the
type of analysis that was done, it was also provided to the State Comptroller. The State Comptroller gives
very little guidance as to what a fund balance is for a municipality an official from the Comptrollers Office
is doing a presentation at an association of towns meeting designed for government finance officials, and he
was very interested in that document and some others that we have provided, that one will be used as a
model example for other towns to follow. Re: Taxes as far as the County, that report can be the basis of
what you decide to do. ..Within the next couple of years new regulations will be adopted as State Law in
New York where the Town will have to fund its post retirement benefits fr retired employees. In the Town
of Queensbury it is pretty much health insurance generally for the life of the retiree and sometimes beyond
if there is a surviving spouse. We have always been a pay as you go basis, so each years budget reflected
what we were going to pay that year. The law is changing and we have to accrue that as it is earned. We
will have to do an actuarial study as to what the past is. What we should have accrued until now, what the
effect of the change will be each year. Within two years we will start accruing each year liability and
probably one thirtieth of the past liability. Noted the City of Troy was approximately four million dollars.
You do not eat that all in one year, but it is something that we have to look forward to. This is so future
taxpayers do not have to pay health insurance benefits for employees who are no longer giving service.
The payment has to be made by taxpayers while employees are given service. That is the intention of the
program.
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR AN EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 279.2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury here by moves into an Executive Session to
discuss five personnel issues.
Duly adopted this 2nd day of June, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE AND REGULAR SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 280.2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves out of its Executive Session
And be it further
RESOLVED, that the Regular Session of the Town Board is hereby adjourned.
Duly adopted this 2nd day of June, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Respectfully submitted,
Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury