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1991-05-13 REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING MAY 13,1991 7:00 P.M. MTG#22 RES#286-301 BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT STEPHEN BORGOS-SUPERVISOR GEORGE KUROSAKA-COUNCILMAN MARILYN POTENZA-COUNCILMAN RONALD MONTESI -COUNCILMAN BETTY MONAHAN-COUNCILMAN TOWN ATTORNEY PAUL DUSEK TOWN OFFICIALS Paul Naylor, Lee York, Kathleen Kathe PRESS: Channel 8, WWSC, G.F. Post Star PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY COUNCILMAN POTENZA SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Opened meeting... noting the public hearings scheduled for tonights meeting. The first dealing with the rezoning request for the Girard property and the National Church Residences Project. Asked the Clerk if this hearing has been advertised? TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-Yes it has. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Both of the hearings are rather complex tonight, we'll be looking towards our Town Attorney for guidance to be sure that we take all the steps precisely as they're supposed to be done under the law to protect the interests of all parties. We have been requested to rezone a parcel of property owned by Kerry Girard lying along Meadowbrook Road - Cline Avenue section of Town. The proposed use of the property, is in part, for the construction of one 41 unit senior citizens housing project sponsored by National Church Residences. The remainder of the property under a proposal, which may be related to our rezoning, would be sold to the Town of Queensbury to be used as a recreation site, open space area with perhaps some trails. The Board will have to consider a number of things during the discussion this evening. We are anxious to know from the people of that area if they would like this project in their neighborhood. We'd like to know from people here if you think its an appropriate location for senior citizens housing. We are not here to have arguments, we're here to hear questions and hear opinions. With all that said, the meeting is opened ... PUBLIC HEARING OPEN 7:14 P.M. REZONING REQUEST - GIRARD PROPERTY DICK MCCARTHY, 12 Wilson Street, Town of Queensbury-I have been a resident of that area for 45 years. One of the main reasons that I originally bought there was because of the restrictions in our deeds and covenants which said that this place is restricted to single dwelling homes and residences. Nothing commercial and that's what we have up there. We have single residents all in that development there and its referred to as the Ridgedale Development. On the map it also goes northward of Cline Avenue and it includes this. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Are you saying then that you believe that this is included in the deed restricted area. MR. MCCARTHY-Yes I'm quite certain it is. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay, this is why we have public hearings, this is the first time I've ever heard of this. MR. MCCARTHY-I think if you refer to the maps, some of the original ones anyhow that I used to have access to, that's all part of the Ridgedale Development. So the whole thing is that this is going to change the whole character of our environment down in there and I'm here against it. The Girard people have put alot of good money into those homes down there and we're proud to have them as neighbors but this is adding something a little bit different from what we expected or I expected and I voice my opinion here. SUPERVISOR BORGOS- Thank you sir. Who will be next? TOM MCGRAW, 21 Wilson Street-In the Ridgedale section. If need be, I think I can get those or that information for the Town Attorney, about the original... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I think that would be important. MR. ADELMANN-Tom, you can look at it right now, I've got it right here. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Does that apply to the Girard property? COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Tom, your opinion on this development? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Do you have an opinion to express for or against? MR. MCGRAW -Yes, the traffic down there since the 2 new homes have been built has increased ten fold which is fine, their large families but I would hate to see any other, more traffic come because we have little kids floating in and out of the driveways. Its a very quiet neighborhood now and I would just like to keep it that way in my declining years. BOB MCDONOUGH, 5 Sargent Street, Queensbury-I've been in that home about 30 years now. I really feel that when we came here before when the Girards built their homes down there that the proposal was that they were going to have single family dwellings and multi family was strictly out of the question at that point in time. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-This would have been before the Planning Board is that right because they are a different Board. MR. MCDONOUGH-Before the Planning Board exactly but that's the way, we sat here untilll:30, 12 o'clock at night one night just to get that clarified, that it was going to be single family dwellings only. Now he comes up with this proposal that he is going to put in multi family dwellings and backing up what Tom said that the traffic has ten fold increased since 2 families have moved in and I certainly couldn't imagine what it would be if we had multi family dwellings down in there. I don't think its really the place for people to build in the swamp to be honest with you. I think its a wetland and I think it should stay as a wetland and this is my personal opinion on this. SUPERVISOR BORGOS- Thank you very much. DON ADELMANN, Corner of Cline and Wilson-I have the deed restrictions here and I'll read the deed restriction number 6. Lands here in described shall be used only for residential purpose and not for more than one family residence. That's the answer to it as far as I'm concerned. The deed says single family homes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-And you believe that that deed ... MR. ADELMANN-Now I would like to know why in one year, the nature of your zoning that made that a single family location on 17 and 1/2 acres, all of sudden it becomes possible to do something else with it. One year ago. The gentleman bought the property knowing full well he could put one house on 17 and 1/2 acres. Now all of sudden he wants to change that, he hasn't been there more than a year. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Let me answer your question. The zoning regulations are here, they are to be enforced but they are always subject to revision, that's part of the rule. If you want a variance from or you want to be rezoned, that's available, that's why we have the procedure for public hearing. MR. ADELMANN-The zoning precludes the deed restrictions? SUPERVISOR BORGOS- This is the first time that I know I personally have ever heard this. I don't know if our Attorney has heard this or if anyone else is familiar with this. If its in the deed, its my understanding the deed will survive. Is that correct? ATTORNEY DUSEK-I'm going to have to evaluate it. I haven't seen this myself. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Assuming all other things being equal, the deed would normally have precedence but certainly know one has known about this. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-But does it apply to the Girard property? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That's why we, the accusation is that ... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Or is it to their property? SUPERVISOR BORGOS- The claim is that it applies to the Girard property, that that's included. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Is it part of the same parcel? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That's what we're saying. We'll want to see that if we can possibly have a copy of that tomorrow morning or leave it with us tonight, leave it with the Clerk, maybe we'll copy it ... MR. ADELMANN-I will bring it down and have you copy it but I will take it back with me. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I would rather have it in your care and custody. That's too valuable a document. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-I was told by the, when I served on the Zoning Board, that the municipal body can not enforce deed covenants but you can take it into consideration. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Our Attorney wishes to look at that. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-I don't think we can enforce the deed covenants, you can't force it on anybody but if its there we have to take it into consideration. That's what we were told. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Steve can I, just to get one thing clarified so that, there has been some concern about traffic and I would like to at least have the gentleman who is proposing this show us where the main access to this development is. I have a feeling that it is on Meadowbrook Road and there may only be one driveway in and out of this so the impact may not be, and I'm not saying this because I'm a proponent of this, I'm just trying to do this as a clarification. I'm not sure that it will advocate traffic being on Wilson or Sargent but maybe we can just point that out on the map. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Sure. Merle would you introduce yourself please, state your affiliation? MERLE SMITH-I'm from Buffalo, New york. I work as an independent consultant to a number of various different non-for-profit organizations that sponsor HUD subsidized section 2028 elderly and handicapped housing developments and I've worked on approximately 40 different projects. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I would appreciate if you would address the entire issue of traffic from your experience please. MR. SMITH-The proposed entrance is on to Meadowbrook Road. All of the property within the bounds of the 5.5 acre parcel is outside of 100 foot line. In other words there's a 100 foot line where the wetlands are outside of the property that we're looking at. I think its important .... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Merle when you are pointing that out would you also show the public where the 2 existing Girard houses would be on that plan right there? MR. SMITH-The Girard houses would be about over here. (demonstrates on map plan) This is Meadowbrook Road going that way, the entrance into the development is between 2 houses and this is the 5.5 acre parcel. It's entirely outside of the wetland area and fortunately there have been surveys done previously when they did the Girard subdivision and the 100 foot line was indicated thereon. I think its important to understand who our tenants are going to be. About 90 percent of our tenants will be single older women. We may have a few couples. We may have a few bachelors and we may have a few widowers but by enlarge between 85 and 95 percent of our tenants will be single women. All of the apartments within the building are 1 bedroom units. You have to be 62 years of age or older to live here or you have to be physically handicapped if you under 62. If its a couple only 1 of the spouses need be 62 years of age. We found from experience that the number of cars that the tenants in these developments will have is about half. In other words with the 41 apartments, will have somewhere between 18 and 28 cars. They are not people that enter the traffic stream during the normal business hours. They don't come out of the traffic stream during the normal business hours. They're a very quiet group of people. They make excellent neighbors and I think that you would find they would be an asset to have near by. COUNCILMAN MONTESI -From the point of view of my neighborhood if I'm on Meadowbrook Road or if I'm on Cline Avenue, whats the visual impact? What am I going to see? I know I'll be seeing both Girard houses but what will I see from that project from my neighborhood? MR. SMITH-Well you'll see quite a bit of what you see there actually now. We don't intend to take down any trees that are outside of our boundary and our boundaries quite a ways from the existing high water line of the wetlands area. Its a 2 story structure, that will look something like this. These are just a sketch of the facility. It will be a framed type structure and it will have the shape like an L and the parking will come, the driveway will come in and the parking will come in and be located here. We intend to leave as many trees as we can and plant additional ones so that we, they are not shining their headlights in the neighboring houses. Most of them will be home before dark anyway. KERRY GIRARD-My name is Kerry Girard, present owner of the property. When we came for our subdivision the Planning Board had required a 25 foot buffer zone on the westerly border which is the border behind the present houses, that's to be untouched. So that would be in its present state, 25 feet as it stands today which should be left alone. So that's your view from Quaker Road and there are mature quite tall trees as well as a sufficient amount of undergrowth in the nature of the wetlands. But the 25 feet is deep enough, that's to be considered to. MR. MCCARTHY-Are you anywhere, will this be anywhere near the old Terra Cotta manufacturing facility which may be declared as a historical registrar. MR. SMITH-We cleared it with SHAPO... MR. MCCARTHY-I don't understand SHAPO but go ahead MR. SMITH-SHAPO is the State Historic Preservation Office. One of the requirements that they have when you make the initial application to HUD, is that you take pictures, describe exactly where the property is and send that in for their review and they said there wouldn't be any, they didn't anticipate any archeological findings there and there wasn't anything near by close enough that this would effect it historically. MR. MCCARTHY-My question is, I live close to there ... MR. SMITH-I don't have any idea where it is, I'm from Buffalo, New York. MR. MCCARTHY-But you should have an answer, somebody must know.. MR. SMITH-But the State of Arch Preservation Office is in Albany and they have representatives that take care of certain counties and are supposed to get familiar with ... MR. MCCARTHY-I think that there's enough question that that should be investigated a little more thoroughly ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Is there anything else that you want to, how about any more about traffic and how many cars that you might expect there and how many times per day those vehicles would be in and out compared with normal homes? MR. SMITH-Well you won't have any teenage drivers. I have listings of quite a few projects that are identical to this which shows the exact number of cars that are owned by the tenants and they average 41. (passed around statements) In other words for every 10 apartments we average 4.1 car. We will have the healthiest population and the most cars in our parking lot the first week that we have full occupancy. As time passes, peoples legs get weaker, Mrs. Jones has to go down and take an eye test and doesn't pass the eye test and she loses her ability to drive. This is not a care facility. This is an opportunity for some older people, many of whom, in fact most of whom will probably come from Queensbury to be able to remain in the community that they grew up in and that they were a part of at a price that they can afford to pay. They will pay 30 percent of their income for rent including utilities and I know that this community is no different from many of the others where we have developed these housing developments for the elderly and that many people, particularly the older the woman who are living on whats left on the Social Security Income and what's left of a pension plan after they've been widowed are having an extremely difficult time both financially and physically maintaining homes. Many have had to move to other communities. I have one in Victor, New York where 12 people had moved to Canandaigua because there wasn't a development in Victor. Now that we have one in Victor, 8 of the 12 moved back to Victor because that's where they grew up and that's where their ties were. MR. MCDONOUGH-I don't know how many times you've driven up and down Meadowbrook Road but I'm only 55 years old and I'll tell you, every time you come out of Cline up onto Meadowbrook, you're taking your life in your hands. Now when you take people 70, the age your talking in, coming out onto Meadowbrook, you're going to have some problems. I guarantee you're going to have some problems because they fly up and down Meadowbrook. I don't care what the posted speed limit is, they fly on it. And I'm talking to Mr. Girard now, your original proposal was that you were going to put a cui de sac back in there and you were going to build some residential homes. Now all of sudden you've done a complete turn around and now you want to put residential housing. We sat here until almost midnight one night arguing this point with you and you guaranteed us this was not going to happen. Now as I say you've done a total turn around and I don't like it. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Is there anything else you want to add at this point? MR. SMITH-I think to a great extent when you develop a zoning ordinance its developed with the intention of controlling the intensity of use. One of the unfortunate things is that elderly housing isn't very old, it's only between 20 and 25 years old. There used to be the county home and the church home but it developed about 20 or 25 years ago that the Government started to attempt to develop some housing that could be owned by non-for-profit organizations and profit making organizations to provide decent safe housing for elderly people. Because its so new, I would question whether even 1 percent of the zoning ordinances in New York State address the peculiarities of elderly housing. Some of the big cities do because they have the experience, they're so big that they've had an opportunity to get a number of developments. Most communities of this size and smaller are lucky if they get one. Many communities though are starting to develop elderly housing ordinances. A development with these 40 tenants that we'll have plus there will be an on site management, either a single person or a couple, will drive less and own less cars than if you have 9 single family homes. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Merle, one of the things that I recall when your concept came to the Town of Queensbury and you asked us to look around for some sites that might be suitable for this, evidently federal funded housing for the elderly have some criteria that have to be met. Correct me if I'm wrong but it has to have water, it has to have sewer, it has to be within so many miles of shopping, church, help me with this ... MR. SMITH-Well, that's, sure those are things that we talked about. Two requirements are, HUD does not like to put these developments on septic systems. There are very few but they are not as large as this. Usually they won't allow them unless they're under 25 units. So we need to be where there's a sewer and we have to be where there's water. In this particular instance we are in that situation. We'll have to have a grinder tank and pump the sewage but the water is not a problem. The proximity, the shopping is helpful. The unfortunate thing is that the ideal site for one of these is to have the housing on that corner and the Doctors and the Dentists office on that corner and the barber and the beauty shop over here and the drug store and the supermarket right over there. But it doesn't exist so we have to try to get as close to all the different things that are necessary to serve this population. They do develop within the building surprisingly an informal transportation system. Like Mrs. Jones will come down to the community room and she'll say, I'm going to the Pigly Wigly or whatever, Loblaws or whatever store it is, does anyone want a ride? Sometimes knowbody goes, sometimes somebody goes or while your there will you get me a quart of milk and this happens consistently. One of the greatest pleasures that I get from having worked with these for 15 years is to go back and visit developments that I worked on and talked to people who live there and they really enjoy it. There are people living there independently who if it weren't for this type of a facility where they have almost an extended family, would be in either an intermediate care facilities or nursing homes. I've worked with a large Lutheran group in Jamestown, we've done 5 of these and they did a study of the ages and the age in the independent living facilities such as this is higher than it is in their nursing homes. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-But the fact of the matter is that within the Town of Queensbury, you are severely limited to look specifically for a parcel of land within the Queensbury Central Sewer District. MR. SMITH -We had to look for that and we also had to find a piece of land that was economically viable within the total cost that we have perimeters for the development. I was up here alot of times and looked alot of parcels and drove around with a number of different real estate people and talked with a number of different developers. This is a situation in every instance where we've done one of these is that its an unknown and everybody that is unfamiliar with it, has all the right in the world to be concerned by it. But I guarantee you that once the people move in that you'll hardly know its there. There's a 95 unit one in Ballston Spa that you can go look at that I did. There's a 41 unit one in Whitehall that I did. There's another one in ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-In Granville I think. MR. SMITH-I didn't do Granville, somebody else did but it was the same National Church Residences. There's another one in Waterford, the oldest incorporated village in New York State. But believe me, these people are quiet, there the best neighbors you can have. They will make less noise, create less problems for you than a bunch of children living in single family homes back there. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Merle, I've been in the one in Whitehall and I've talked to the people up there. Where is the one in Ballston Spa because I haven't located that one? MR. SMITH-If you go down to Route 50 and come to where you have to make a little jag, and you go right down 50 and you go about a block and a half. I can't remember the name of the road, it was like 6 or 7 years ago, I can't remember, I'm reaching that age. Then you turn left and you'll go in and you'll see what appears to be a moderately small 3 story building and when you get around the end of it, you'll be amazed. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay, anymore questions from Mr. Smith while he's up here before we go back to the general public? Right now we're taking questions for Mr. Smith and then we'll go back and open up the general comments. NANCY KELLY, 6 Meadowbrook Road-I have a question, I don't know if this is the Town or yourself. When you do a project like this don't you have to have more than one method of ingress and egress? I'm really surprised because in most projects in the Town when you get into something like this just for fire. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-In a subdivision you do and the Planning Board, if this gets rezoned and we're not here to discuss all the intricacies of this at this point but if this gets rezoned, its my understanding this would still have to go to the Planning Board for site plan approval during which time all those other details will be taken care of. MS. KELLY-Okay. Well I was concerned about that because I would wonder where it would be if you did have to do it. Because of everybody sitting here, just Em and myself are the only ones I see on Meadowbrook. Can I comment or do you want to still leave it up to questions? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I prefer to take questions right now then we'll let Mr. Smith sit down and go back to general comments. MS. KELLY-Okay, I have some other questions then and I'm totally ignorant of what HUD does in this particular kind of situation. I am in favor of having some kind of housing for senior citizens, I think its a great idea. I'm not sure living on Meadowbrook that I'm in favor of having it there. But I have questions about, who pays taxes on a project such as this and are they 100 percent, if they would be if there were single family dwellings on there at that same assessed value and who also pays like the water and all the expenses that I pay as a homeowner? All the real estate taxes that I pay as a homeowner. Who does it in something like this because I'm assuming its subsidize if they are only paying 30 percent of it? Can you respond to that? MR. SMITH-Do you have another question? MS. KELLY-Well I've got to hear what you have to say and then I'll let you know. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Don't get too many questions at one time, you wont be able to answer it, you'll get mixed up. MR. SMITH-I won't be able to remember them. Under the New York State law these developments are, we use a corporation that's under the private housing finance law and the non-for-profit corporation law that owns them and they are exempt from real property taxes. But they pay all the advalorem levys for sewer, water, the various districts and so forth. The existing taxes that your getting on this particular 5 acre parcel right now is probably around 1300 dollars for that portion of it. Another thing that you'll see happening is that some of the people that move into the housing, will sell their houses, they're in houses whose value is not appreciating, in fact its probably depreciating because they can not maintain it. You'll have a number of people who qualify for the senior and the elderly tax reduction and those houses will get sold to younger families who have energy, they go back up to the full value on the tax roll which will more than compensate for what you lose on this. You asked the first question, I forgot what it was. MS. KELLY-Well I was asking about the real estate taxes. MR. SMITH-But you had one before that. MS.KELL Y -The other thing that I was concerned about was the ingress and egress. MR. SMITH-I don't have any, let see, I have 30 elderly projects and 11 projects for people with various different types of handicaps, none of them have dual access and that complies with the State Fire Prevention and Multiple Dwelling law. MS. KELLY-Is that what your asking them to be rezoned, multiple dwelling? MR. SMITH-Well its a multiple dwelling with a specific use. In other words, we can never rent to anybody but elderly people who are 62 years of age or older or a physically handicapped person who might be under 62. I've had some developments where a 24 year old paraplegic has moved into an elderly project and he didn't like it and they didn't like it. Most of the, and he moved out and it turned out that an older person who was in their yearly 50's who was in a wheelchair moved in to his unit and that was a much more compatible situation. This National Church Residence operates about 7,000 apartment units all over the United States and it has an excellent reputation. There will be an on site either an individual or couple that will be living there that will see to the maintenance of it and see to the operation of it, see to assisting tenants and emergencies and so forth. What will happen in these buildings is that if Mrs. Jones gets sick a couple of her friends in that building, will help her get a bath, do her shopping, feed her and they build up very, very strong ties. They are not going to be running all over your backyard. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any other questions while he's still up? COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-I don't think he answered the question about subsidies yet either. She asked him about subsidy. MR. SMITH-Thirty percent of the tenants income isn't enough money to pay to operate the project, maintain it and pays it debts service. So you establish a fair market rent which might be 600 dollars a month and if you have a person whose income is 500 dollars a month, lets see, 400 dollars a month, they would pay 120 dollars and the difference between the 120 and the 600 would be paid to the project owner which would be NCR of Queensbury Housing Development Fund Company, so that it would have the funds to meet the debt service payments. MR. MCCARTHER-Paid to by whom? MR. SMITH-The United States Government through HUD. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Do they subsidize the construction too? MR. SMITH-That's automatically subsidized because the development costs, the mortgage includes all the costs of building the project, the surveys, the legal fees, the title and recording fees, the architects fees and then once you know what that total is, you develop what's an anticipated operating costs based on prior experience and you end up with a number and that's the amount that you have for debt service. There's 2 questions in there, you figure a 3 percent vacancy for elderly, usually it runs about a half of a percent and you figure after you've deducted the operating expenses from the gross income or the net income, the 97 percent, you take 95 percent of that and that's considered what's available for debt service. So there's another 5 percent cushion. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any other questions while he's up here yet? You will all get a chance to say what you want anyway. PLINEY TUCKER, Ward 4-Mr. Smith, my question concerns economics. Whose is going to build this? Who are the contractors going to be? MR. SMITH-Well I think at this, we don't know. MR. TUCKER-What I'm asking, are local people going to get a chance to bid it? MR. SMITH-Sure. In everyone that's been developed, local people have participated. Sometimes the General isn't necessary a local person. It might be somebody from Albany, it might be somebody from Rochester. It all depends upon who gives us the best initial overall price. Some of them have subcontractors that they've gotten prices from but the ones that I've worked with ... Castleton which was just recently finished and they opened up the place and advertised that they would be there with plans and solicited specifically to get contractors from the local area and they got alot oflocal people working ... MR. TUCKER-Are you required to bid a project like this? MR. SMITH-No. MR. TUCKER -You are not required to? MR. SMITH-No. MR. TUCKER-But your Company policy is that you do. MR. SMITH -We informally bid and then select the contractor based on experience and price. MR. TUCKER-What do you mean by informally? You pick and chose them? MR. SMITH -We reserve the right to select the contractor based on his price and based on his experience. To date we've taken the lowest ones and if they are under what the budget figure is we've gone back to them and have told them we want some additional things in the project and increase the ... MR. TUCKER-The cost of the project. MR. SMITH-The total cost of the project but for things that we got that we thought would be nice amenities in addition to the elderly. MR. TUCKER-Thank you. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I'm assuming that these projects are prevailing wage projects? MR. SMITH-They're all prevailing wage. They issue a specific labor rate for each specific job with a number, they expire and you have to get them removed. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I'm familiar with them. MR. SMITH-But the one that is in effect the day the project closes is the one that holds for that for the period of time of construction. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Not now. It has to go up, if it goes up, those wages have got to go up. MR. SMITH-Not, if it goes up between now and the time that we start construction, it will be at the rate at the time that we start construction. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay, any other questions for Mr. Smith? If not I'll ask him to stay in the room in case other questions do come up. Who will be next? MRS. KELLY-Again I have some concerns. I'm trying to be open minded. My first reaction is no but my Mother lived in a senior citizen high rise and she was handicapped. So I know there's a need for something like that. I'm concerned for the location. I'll have to say in all honesty that I don't believe its going to effect the value of my property. I've been here before, you know that I'm going to have a hard time selling my house anyway. But I'm concerned as a citizen in the Town because I believe a project that's going to have the value that this one is going to have in terms of real property, I'm concerned that we're not going to get any benefit from that, tax wise. I disagree with what you're saying about the people turning their houses over because houses are assessed at the value of the home, not the number of people that live in it. So somebody giving up a big older home and going into this and a young couple buying it, I don't think that's going to do anything. You're talking about a project that's hundredths of thousandths of dollars and if we were to have homes built like Terry did and they are beautiful homes and they were going in there and you did 5 of them, you're going to be talking about a consider amount of tax dollars. They still I don't believe have the value of this particular project and we're not going to get any tax break from that. We're not going to get any, or maybe we are, maybe I did misunderstand this. Are we going to get a sewer break on it? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Yes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It's my understanding that this project ... MRS. KELL Y-I mean they have got to use more water than the rest of us. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It's my understanding this project would still have to pay water, sewer, fire protection, all the special district. The only thing that they would not pay, as I understand, would be a regular Town tax which is 44 cents a thousand this year. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I don't think they pay the school tax either. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-School, I'm not sure the exemption. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-What about County? MR. SMITH-They don't pay any real property tax. MRS. KELLY-No benefit tax. MR. SMITH-School, County, Town ... MRS. KELLY-Okay. But my concern really is in, like you we're talking about with the traffic. I'm concerned a little bit with the traffic but I'm also concerned about the people that are going to live there in that location. Because when we went to build our house on Meadowbrook, 6 and a 1/2 years ago, luckily my husband was putting in a road in the Town of Queensbury because we had to bring in 20,000 square feet, 3 feet high of fill and we are not, quote, in the wetlands we were are on Meadowbrook Road. When we walked over to that land where the houses are now and where this 5 acres is, we could take a piece of stone and we could throw it into the water. Now I don't know what happened to that water in 6 years ... MR. MCGRAW-It's in my cellar. MRS. KELLY-We do have a swale ditch by the way. But I'm very concerned about that and putting a building of that size in that location because I haven't seen the proof that the water really and truly has disappeared. I don't know all the current rules and regs from DEC but I'm not sure at this point that 100 feet within a wetlands is truly acceptable. When this whole piece of land literally had standing water on it 6 years ago, I'm not sure I would feel comfortable having my mother living in a place like that and walking around out there. Somebody had mentioned the quarry that was there, that was right on our corner where Nick Clements building is, part of it where they store the stuff is over there on Kline and when we went down to dig to put in our foundation, it costs us 8,000 dollars to have that stuff trucked out and we have a 2200 square foot house. So I'm concerned about that too and what's on that land and under that land that you want to put the dwelling on. I think if it were a different piece of property in that location I would be much more opened minded about it because I really and truly do feel that Queensbury has to have a place. I'm going to be a senior citizen in the not too distant future and I'd like to know that I can stay in the Town but I also have to say that I don't know that I'd want to stay in the swamp, which is what we call it. That's the truth and somewhere in the records there has to be something that shows that that occurred and that was a concern to all of us when we're building our homes. That's my concern, that land and that particular use, I just don't feel it should be rezoned MR5 with the water and the quarry tiles and everything else that's on it. That's my opinion. Thank you. SUPERVISOR BORGOS- Thank you. Who else would like to speak or ask questions? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I would like to ask Merle a question because of what Nancy said and that is, what investigation has been done of the soil that's where you plan to place the building. MR. SMITH-We've done the survey but we're holding on the soil test until we know the rezoning is done, then we'll do the soil test because the soil test is too high, they cost over 4,000 dollars. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Normally we're going to require some kind of an engineering study before we do a rezoning to make sure that property will support a rezoning. MR. SMITH-In most of the communities I've worked in, that happens before they approve the final site plan, not on any of these that have been rezoned. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-We usually do it before the rezoning because the rezoning you've got to prove that the land can carry what you want to rezone it for. MR. SMITH-Well we believe it will based on what's around there and this is not a real heavy ... the rate per square foot is about the same as a 2 family, 2 story house ... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Slab on grade construction? MR. SMITH-It will be slab on grade but the footing... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-And it will probably be under water, the footings will be under water, I'm quite familiar with the property. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Mrs. Monahan raises an important question. If we go through the exercise of rezoning this land and you're 4,000 dollar soil test prove that you will have a problem putting a slab on grade without doing alot of pile driving or in some way showing up that wetland or that swampy area, what happens then? MR. SMITH-You mean if the soil test showed that we had to do considerable things, we would have to do an evaluation of what that would cost over the norm relative to what purchasing a different piece of property would cost. If they are about equal or less we would stay on this site. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-We had a situation very similar to this with affordable housing and one of the things that concerned the Town Board was to go through the exercise and to the anxiety of neighbors, adjoining neighbors that rezoned this and if you, many people relate to it, affordable housing or relate to the needs of the seniors. But if we rezone this without any conditions and you find that it is not suitable for what you want, we've rezoned it. Now what do we do? Now we've really destroyed that neighborhood because its zoned MR5 and we know that its not going to support your concept but it could support some kind of multiple family dwellings. Would you be opposed to a rezoning that was conditioned? MR. SMITH-As I understand it based on the document I have in front of me, you have a number of conditions on the rezoning as it stands and one of them being that this would be about the only project that would go on there. One of them that you have is that we make an application to HUD for funding. We already did make the application to HUD for funding and have set aside funds to both build the project and subsidize the tenants. Its a matter of completing the application process and getting the plans and designs and the management plans done. But I have no objection to having a conditional rezoning. It appears that's what you intended anyway. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-You know, I just wonder and I guess I'm going to address this to Paul, that without a full blown SEQRA, how can we say we've got a resolution adopting determination of non- significance, when we know there may be problems with the physical characteristic of this land? ATTORNEY DUSEK-Well I think that's what the Board has to evaluate and if you feel that you need further information you can request it, that you don't move ahead with a negative dec. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any other comments from the general public? MR. ADELMANN-You're talking about 5 acres for this project that you are going to take off the tax rolls in Queensbury. You didn't say anything about 12 additional acres that you want to take over for a so called park. That's off the tax rolls also, correct? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That would be the case under the proposal except that it would also still have to pay those special district taxes. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The Town. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The Town would. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Which is the tax payers. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Correct. Anyone else? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-And the HUD money is tax payers money. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-It sure is. JOHN HODGKINS, 18 Wilson Street-I've got one question, who initiate this project? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I think I can answer that. We received a phone call approximately 2 years ago from Congressman Jerry Solomon's office indicating that he was very pleased to announce that HUD had granted to the Town of Queensbury specifically funding for a 41 unit senior citizens housing complex that he had worked for a long time to get. He felt that there was a need here and all of you, I believe, share that concern. The search then began with Mr. Smith, with Mrs. Monahan, with Mrs. York for properties anywhere in the Town that would meet the criteria outlined by HUD. It progressed through a period of stages for about 2 years to the point where the National Church Residences which is one of the standard and usual sponsoring group throughout the Country, selected this site as their primary recommendation. There was an earlier determination that a site at the end of Sherman Avenue would be good but as everyone knows there's no sewer out there. Its a long ways from shopping and churches and other conveniences and there's no scheduled bus service at this time. It was deemed that this is much closer to everything and that very easily we could have bus service through that section. So that's the history of it in a nut shell. Its taken a long time to get it to this point. We're concerned that if we don't find a site, whether its this site or another one, very quickly and literally within a few months, that the Town will lose this opportunity, this will go somewhere else and the people who then would live here, will have to move to another community. MR. HODGKINS-So what you are saying is that the Town initiated the project to start this search. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-No, Congressman Solomon's office initiated the project. MR. HODGKINS-Okay and the Town accepted the responsibility to ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That's the way it goes in the order of things. It comes to us. There is no Town money involved in this ... MR. HODGKINS-Well there's tax money so there is quite a bit of Town money. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Well there are tax dollars, individual tax dollars but no Town of Queensbury money in this project as such. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Increases federal deficit is what it does. MR. HODGKINS-Yea, right, so there's somebodies money its coming out of. I guess, is there any study on what the actual consumption, prorata consumption will be of the use of that area could be in dollars terms and whats our economic impact that we're going to lose out on? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Mr. Smith would you answer that? I think you're looking in consumption in terms of dollars as an economic sense, is that correct? The spending power of the ... MR. HODGKINS-Well it's hard to measure I think. I think if you take all the road systems, divide it by the number of tax paying parcels, that's one way of doing it. Now what are we going to lose out on here, we've got 41 units, 1 unit I would assume would be probably two or three hundred dollars a year just in certain property taxes and everything else, based on what a home is. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Or the other way around, probably sales tax expenditures or sales tax revenues to the Town. We get revenue alot of ways, property tax and sales tax. If the people live here, they're probably going to shop here. MR. HODGKINS-Certainly, that's correct. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Let's face it Steve, they're not going to have too much discretionary income. MR. HODGKINS-That's right. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-But they still need a number of services. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think I can give you another slant on this background. I'm involved because of Seniors are one of my committees and I know alot of seniors personally, have been talking to them, the need is definitely there. Plus the fact the seniors on their own initiative presented a petition asking for some housing to be made available in this Town. So this is rather how we started, at the same time, it just kind of dove tailed that Jerry Solomon was working on a grant that we really weren't aware of as far as I know until we knew that he had it. MR. HODGKINS-Okay. Let me jump over to my next question I guess. The property you indicated it would be, the other excess property there will be sold to the Town, is there a figure on that? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Fifteen thousand dollars is the asking price for that parcel. That was explained at the last meeting, that normal a project of this nature, the developer, whether a subdivision or multi- family housing, would have to pay to the Town a Recreation Fee as we call it, 500 dollars per housing unit. A unit of this size would then have to pay approximately 20,000 dollars or donate to the Town land in lieu of that fee that's acceptable to the Town. In this case we would be looking at 20,000 square feet or 1/2 acre ofland. The Town when we initially heard of this project proposal, said, gee it would be good if the group could buy the whole parcel, use its 5, donate the other 10 acres to the Town and everything would be fine. The group can't under HUD rules and regulations it appears buy more land than its going to show a beneficial use for. In this case there's 10 acres that they don't need. If you do the mathematics, the group is still going to be required to pay 20,000 dollars, if we take that 20,000 dollars and pay 15 for the wetland, the Town would come out with a 5,000 dollar so called profit. Five thousand dollars more than if the group bought the wet property and donated it to the Town, we would still have the same property but we would have also 5,000 dollars additional in the bank. So that's I think the answer to your question. MR. HODGKINS-Okay. What's the tax on that other 10 acres? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I don't know because most if not all of it is wetland which means the assessed value would be very, very low. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Right now the assessed valuation is on that one piece of property so it would be hard to break out with that particular wetland area would be worth. But think of another word besides economics. I mean if this area goes for senior housing and I'm going to put a big IF there. Number 1, you are going to accomplish 2 things with those wetlands, you're going make some passive activities for seniors and when I say passive, I'm talking, not playing ball and stuff but trails where they can walk and get that kind of recreation. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-In the wetlands? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No, there can be trails built along the area. You are also looking at protecting those wetlands from not getting any further polluted than what they are now in taking some measures along that respect that would be good for that whole area, the Halfway Brook, Watershed and so on and so forth. MR. HODGKINS-Well that seems like a negative, that means we have, now we have strangers walking through our backyards instead of having ... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well that's not your backyard. MR. HODGKINS-It's our neighborhood I guess if you look at it. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I know. MR. HODGKINS-I mean if someone owns the property, then you know who is there, I guess. You don't have someone from the west side of Town coming and walking through. I guess to sum up ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Anybody here from the west side of Town? I'm looking at 3 lively candidates sitting right there. MR. HODGKINS-No, you see what I'm saying though, if someone, I can go over and use the swimming pool over on the other side too. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think though what you're looking at in an area like this that even though it would be called a park, I'm sure the main, the most people using it would be the senior citizens there. Because it would not be conducive to having in the area in which they are living any other type of a park situation there, that's what I meant between passive and active. MR. HODGKINS-I know the question was asked before but I think its a concern that should be raised again, as far as egress, in that area on that property. That would definitely have to be looked at. I mean if its going to come onto Cline Avenue, that's going to change the whole character of our neighborhood. The other thing is if Cline is, is there any considerations on extensions of Cline? That's a big question that comes through. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I think I can answer that. What looks like a potential road cut from the dead end of Cline to Everts, was established about 2 years ago when they put the sewer line in there. MR. HODGKINS-Right. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-They clear cut and they put that sewer line but that part of that road goes right through what DEC has deemed as a wetland so I think that's a big negative. I mean the Town would have to show some serious justifications why they need to come out onto Everts Avenue with an extension of Cline and I don't think that's in the cards. I mean it isn't in the cards for me to want to propose something like that and I can't imagine that happening. The folks that live on Cline Avenue and Sargent and Wilson have lived for a long time with that mechanism or that street configuration. The last 2 homes in there, both the Girard homes have also learned to live with that fact that that is a dead end, if you will, street. So I don't think that's a problem and it wouldn't serve anybody well to go to Everts Avenue there. MR. HODGKINS-Okay. I guess lastly, I am against the changing of the zoning. I feel it would be negative, its a single home residence area. I don't see any benefit to the community as far as that goes. As far as senior citizen housing, there are other properties around this Town. Now I don't, I certainly haven't researched them but there's alot of open space and alot of space that the impact will not be as significant as it could be in our area. SUPERVISOR BORGOS- Thank you. CHRIS ...14, Wilson Street-What I don't understand is how a park like this should this be put in, since this is going to be a Queensbury Park, then people from the entire area can come in and use this park. There is no guarantee it's going to be just for these residents. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-When we use the term park, we use it very loosely. We mean a green area, probably with no fences on it and Mrs. Monahan said probably ... CHRIS-And where will the entrance to this park be? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Probably a trail or 2. We don't, I certainly don't envision that we are going to create major open spaces of any sort. Its more of an opportunity just to keep the trees there and let people wonder. No one has gone anywhere near as far as designing a park or entrances or anything else. CHRIS-Okay, I was just curious. DICK MCCARTHY-I wonder whatever has become of Gary Bowen's project up there where he was going to put a home for the elderly. I mean that seems to be ideal, its away from everybody, out of the way. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Expensive as hell too. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-As we've been sitting here talking that has ... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Expensive as hell. MR. MCCARTHY-Well its got to cost somebody something. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-As we've been sitting here talking, that project has obviously come back to my mind. The proposal that we had seen was a progressive health care situation where there would be a townhouse people could move into as they got more and more ill and infirmed, it would get progressively, there'd be more service until such time as people had to go to the hospital to be taken care of. That maybe an option to look at. I don't know exactly what Hiland Park concern is now and exactly what their plans are for that part of their project but its certainly worth looking at and I'm sure Mr. Smith will be taking a look at that. MR. MCCARTHY-I would imagine that would be an automatic ... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Its not a low cost project though. MR. MCCARTHY-Well it could be, it could be. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Its not geared for ... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Not in that location. MR. MCCARTHY-Well I'm sure Gary could use a little extra cash, I feel like he might be able to. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any other comments from anyone? First time around still. Second time around, I know we had one second timer. KERRY GIRARD, 3 Cline Avenue-We do still presently own the property, its under option. To answer a question about the real estate taxes which has come up quite a bit tonight. The real estate taxes that would be lost is actually around 800 dollars. That's what that whole parcel including what the Town would be receiving. So both parcels, the 5 acres plus the 10 plus acres going to the Town, we are presently paying around 800 dollars for school, town and county. We are presently down to around 1600 dollars for the sewer assessment which is made up with the capital assessment. There's where your increase would come in when we talk dollars and cents. I don't think we're talking a material amount of dollars when we split it up amongst the people that are being assessed under that sewer district. So I just wanted to answer that question for you, some people might have had a different idea about what the tax loss might be. To answer another question about the original request for the subdivision and what we went for, the parcel that the National Church Residences is going to be building on is the parcel that we applied for to be just a single family lot. That's what we went under and that's what our, intent to do. It was to be a lot that someone with enough financial where with all, could go in there and spend enough money to build the house the way it must be built. As Nancy Kelly has made reference to, the cost of bringing in fill, the cost of putting a pump in to pump yourself out to the sewer. We built where we are, we know what it costs to build there, I was fortunate, I didn't run into much trouble, I went down 6 and a 1/2 feet. I have a pump in my cellar, I don't have water in my cellar, it works fine. They may not have as much luck but I think this entity has the financial backing to do it properly. All the questions you've asked tonight and all the concerns you have, we've asked as well, because its in my backyard too and us as owners of the property, we're just as concerned as you are. I have young children. I'm concerned about those senior citizens taking a walk out in the swamp and drowning. All these things should be and must be addressed and they're taken care of between the attorneys on covenants and restrictions and they will be addressed and this project will be supervised, so on and so forth. There's 4 people that own this parcel, we're all relatives, one of them was my wife who really wasn't for it in the beginning. But the 4 of us talked and when you think about it, the need is there, it serves a good purpose. Yea, maybe I'd rather not have it in my backyard but the reality of it, it's a good spot for the people if the building can be put there. It's going to take alot of engineering and hopefully it will be done right and I think it will improve the property. I do feel bad for the people who live on Meadowbrook Road, they'll probably be the closest to it. I talked to one of the residences where the entrances way will go by, he thought it was a fairly good project if there was anything to ever go back there. Everyone else lives farther away then he does and farther away then I do. I hear your concerns but you don't look out your windows at it. You look out on Sargent and Wilson at each other. You may be losing that green space that you see as you go to work and come home from work. But if you think unselfishly, this is a good project. This is a good company behind it. We've checked them out, we've checked them out against their competitors and their competitors gave them a good reference. So I feel I'm going with good people. The government, the local government is behind it. What else could go in there besides someone building a single family home, yes, that would be the best case. I did not apply for what some people have made a reference to tonight, which may be 5 or 6 homes, yes for our tax base, that would be good but that has its side effects too. I met opposition for the 6 homes that I wanted to put on Cline A venue. I could imagine what the opposition would have been if I added 5 more homes to that behind the people on Meadowbrook. I don't think I would have been successful. Another point is, we did not pursue this project, it fell into to our hands through a phone call. The phone call actually went to the prior owners. When the project first called, I put it off, we were doing other things and it did go to the Sherman Avenue residences. They ran into road blocks, I really don't know the details up there and then the call came back. The Town was still behind it, Jerry Solomon was still behind it, so I felt it deserved consideration. After talking to the organization, talking to our local government, I felt, we assessed, it was a good project. We went with it. The dollars in the magnitude, don't have a big effect here because we're not talking big money. It isn't like we're going to get rich over night selling this piece of land to this project at all. That's my attitude, that's the background and the best I can tell you how it occurred. I hope I've answered some questions directly in regards to cost and some future benefit. The other point about the, I know you have some concern about a second entrance and exit. I think history has shown, I used to sit on the zoning board for the City of Glens Falls and when we sat there, the fewer amount of entrances and exits, the better, the safer it was. If you have 2 driveways coming out on 2 different spots on the road, you have more danger to your traffic. The person driving his car has to look at 2 different spots now, where these cars could be coming from. The same with children on bikes. This is a 50 foot wide parcel of land. It's wide enough to call it a road so that you have a lane going out and a lane coming in, so we have 1 spot to focus on where cars could be going into and coming out of. I think if you, if the Town officials look, I think that's been the history to the Town of Queensbury as well. Let's limit the amount of ingress and egress. It's a safer way to do things. The other concern that you had that we may have a road coming out on Cline A venue, well that's why I hung onto the property and chose not to have the Town or this project buy the whole parcel from me. I'm just as concerned about those things as well. So we hung onto the parcel, we negotiated the transfer and we have the right and our attorneys will take care of those, dotting the i's and crossing the t's and there will be covenants placed on the Town if they want to buy that land. One of those would be along those lines. To let you know if you think they have the power to entice the State to forgive the wetlands restrictions and allow them to continue that road. When they put the sewer district through back in 1987, Allen Coachline from the DEC up in Warrensburg required them to go back through and knock down that dirt road which was elevated to such a height that cars could go through. So I doubt today very much that the State of New York would be agreeable to allow them to put any type of hard road or egress or exit onto Cline Avenue whether it would be the hard black top or the paper dirt road that's on there today. The State very much protects these wetlands, they have a 100 foot buffer zone that must be honored and I think we'll see that for many, many years. It's been fairly recently that this parcel of land was classified as a wetlands and I don't think the State of New York is in an attitude of giving up their wetlands as fast as they designate them as that. That's it for now. Thank you. SUPERVISOR BORGOS- Thank you. Any questions while Mr. Girard is up here? Does anybody have a question for Mr. Girard? Okay, I see no hands. Anyone else who wishes to speak? CAROL PUL VER-A couple of things that I've heard tonight. Number 1, there is a big benefit to this, we are going to get 41 individuals into, and I say decent housing because there are seniors that are living in substandard housing because they can not afford anything better than what they have. The other thing is, let's not lose sight, where talking about the tax dollars we're going to lose, let's not lose sight of the fact that this HUD money is our tax dollars and is going to go somewhere if we don't try to capture it. So our tax dollars have already been taken away from us and are already there in this fund and yes it is part of a deficit that we're all going to have to live with. But that doesn't matter, that money is there and it's going to go somewhere. I love the idea that Queensbury has the opportunity to get it back into their community. Whether a local developer gets the opportunity to build this building or not, will depend on the bids. However I'm sure the materials are going to come from our local businesses because they're certainly not going to drag two by fours from across the country. The other things is the cars, as Mr. Smith has said, these people do a limited amount of driving. If there's a total of 18 cars on the premises, not all 18 is running in and out of that exit all day long. They may not use their car but once a week and when there's problems with the car, that's usually the end of the car because their budgets are so limited they can't afford to have the car repaired. Let's see, as far as looking for or the suggestion of looking for another place in the Town of Queensbury, I know from experience that it takes alot of time and alot of money and alot of effort and I know Mr. Smith has done that. There probably is several other locations within the Town for senior housing, but you need to ask yourself the question, do they have all the facilities that this has and is the property for sale. I mean, it's great to say lets put it down the street, but if the landowner doesn't want to sell it, we can't put it down the street. I also know that if we did put it down the street, this room would be filled with the neighbors of that property but sooner of later we have got to accept the fact that we have got to take care of our elderly. Thank you. SUPERVISOR BORGOS- Thank you. Anyone else? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I do want to comment on one thing that so people realize what the game out there is. This senior housing will not be reserved for Queensbury residences. With HUD money, it's first come, first serve on the application. So I don't want anybody being mislead when we say there are seniors in Queensbury in need that they are the only seniors that will have a chance at these apartments. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-I have a comment to make on this. There's no way of determining whether, like Mrs. Monahan says, whose is going to occupy these apartments, HUD or some other home owners organization, may dump their waiting list on us. We can't guarantee who goes in here, as far as I know. How do we guarantee it? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-You can't. MR. SMITH-As far as who will occupy the homes is concerned, anybody from the United States could live in these apartment houses. The experience has been that if the development is in Camilus, New York, the vast majority of the people that live there, end up living there and get their names in first on the applications are from Camilus. If it's in Salvey, it's the same way. If it's in Webster, it's the same way. Ifit was in Ballston Spa, it was the same way. They're either, the bulk of them are from the local community, they're the ones that are most aware of what's going on. They've seen the announcement of the opening of construction. What we encourage them to do and we will set up a mechanism to do, is to get there names, addresses and phone numbers to some party that will do the collecting locally. Now that is not a waiting list, that is what we call an interested parties list. We can not start a waiting list until after we start to receive the actual applications. On that interested parties list that we have to have, prior to occupancy, when we know that the building is going to be completed in about 3 months, we have a pre-occupancy conference with the HUD office and establish the date at which we're going to start advertising. The date that we start the advertising, we will send applications to the people on the interested parties list with the advice that they get them filled out and back to the place where they are being collected so they can be date stamped in as soon as possible. With that mechanism, the bulk of the people that end up living in the building are from the local community. You have another situation, prior to my mother passing away, fortunately she lived near where I live and I've talked with friends that I know in Victor there was one couple whose mother lived in Syracuse, was on in years and was very difficult for them to kind of help her and his sisters, she didn't need full time care and they brought her to Victor and she was eligible to live. So there maybe some people that come here and it ends up being a benefit for a younger couple taking care of an adult. There will be over a million dollars go through the community in construction money and a total of almost 200,000 dollars a year in subsidy funds. Believe me, the concept of it is much more frightening and significantly more frightening and no where near as pleasant as the actuality. This is not going to be a big tall 3 or 4 story building. It's going to be a 2 story building, it will fit in with whats around it and frankly I don't think many people are going to be able to see it. These awards of funds, when we applied for this there were 26 or 27 applications that went into HUD and 8 were funded. There not something that you just walk into HUD and say, gee I want to build some senior housing, give us some money. You've got competition with other communities and this community won out. But the need is here, the funds are reserved to meet the need, it's not an if come. The funds are reserved to meet the need. The zoning actions are not unusual, they are different because of the nature of the housing is different from other types of housing. Believe me this is one of the quietest, most beneficial neighborly uses that anyone could have. The sponsor which will also be the management agent is very experience, very skilled, maintains its building. Has been brought in by HUD to take over projects that other sponsors and managers had, to correct them, straighten them out and get them back on their feet again. The development will be an asset to the Town of Queensbury that not only the officials would be proud of but the population would be proud of. It will pay its share of all the user fees and it will assist in retiring the debt on the sewer system but it will not pay property taxes. But some of our tenants and I know that there are some people in Queensbury that get the seniors exemption. Are there? SUPERVISOR BORGOS- That is correct. MR. SMITH-And some of those people are going to move into this housing and the 50 percent reduction that they get in their taxes will disappear because it will end up being sold to younger people. There's a tax loss and there's a tax benefit. We are all paying federal income taxes, this is an opportunity to get a good chunk of them coming back into the community for a period of 40 years. I appreciate your patience and I hope we've sold you all and I hope that the housing can move forward because its very definitely and strongly needed. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Mr. Smith, for these peoples information, what is the income level at which these people will qualify for this and will every single apartment in here be subsidized? MR. SMITH -Yes, every apartment will be subsidized. Under the safety net system, it used to be that a person could move in if they wanted to the fair market rent but a person has to have an income that's 50 percent of 1/2 of the county median income. It changes. MR. ADELMANN-We still want to go back and look at whether the deed restrictions playa part in this. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Absolutely, that's on the list. Deed restrictions and the concern for historic preservation and possible terra cotta, that's on the record. MR. GIRARD-Excuse me, on the deed restrictions, are you referencing from ... COUNCILMAN MONTESI -You weren't here Kerry, just to update you, there was a comment made that some of your neighbors consider the parcel of land that your home is sitting on and also this parcel is part of an original subdivision called Ridgedale. If that is the case, their contention is that there was with that land some deed restrictions that went with it and specifically that only single family residential homes would be in there. Are you aware of that? MR. GIRARD-No, that was searched by our attorneys office and I was not informed of any deed restrictions by the previous Ridgedale II, I think it was called, as part of the off shoot of Ridgedale I. Not to say that there, there mayor may not be. I was going to respond to, there's no deed restrictions placed on by our subdivision. There are covenants and restrictions that were not incorporated into the deed though by us. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We will check this out immediately and find out what is going on. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I had spent some time one time campaigning, talking to Mrs. Fitzgerald when she had the property on the market the first time and she tells me that the original subdivision, Ridgedale, if there was a one, was subdivision and then subsequent to that, what the land that you purchased, those 22 acres was a paper subdivision. Is there any, she seemed to have had a map but it wasn't an approved subdivision for Ridgedale II. MR. GIRARD-One map that I did see was on the south side of Cline Avenue, there are 1/4 acre size lots already subdivided up and they are on the paper road with the dirt road starts going west towards Everts, that may be the subdivision that she's referencing. There were no subdivided lots on any map with the Town on the north side of Cline Avenue which we purchased, that point north. COUNCILMAN MONTESI -You're right, she talked about punching through there at the time. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We have some questions off acts to look at. MR. MCCARTHY-I have seen a map with subdivision with roads which are on the north side of Cline, I've seen that map and I think I turned it over to Emma Johnson. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Okay, lets go back to Mr. Smith for a minute and get the answers to that and then we'll take your questions in the back. MR. SMITH-Alright, these are about a year old and they change every 18 months or so but the very low income for this county is 10,550 dollars for a single person and for a couple it would be 12,050 dollars. At the time of occupancy would start, they would probably be up a little bit. As far as the deed restriction is concerned, I'm going to call, this is the first I've heard about it, I'm going to call Kerry in the morning and have him call his attorney and get out the basic underline deed that he had and see if there's any restriction in that. Because if there is such as that, we've got to look for another site, unless all the neighbors will sign off. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Our Attorney is very conservative, he's not shaking his head one way or the other without looking at the paper work. EMMA JOHNSON-Kerry knows me. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It's a pleasure to meet you, I've heard and seen your name many times. MS. JOHNSON-I'm the one that sold Kerry the land in the first place and there's maps some place out there because there's Fitzgerald Street, there's Johnson Streets, there's all these different streets. I get salesman coming to my door, now somebody is giving them the names of those streets they're looking for. So you've got them some place, I don't know where. That's all I've got to say. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We'll try to locate some missing streets tomorrow. Thank you. Anyone else? Anyone else wish to speak about this subject? Alright, we'll close this public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED 8:40 P.M. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It's my recommendation that, some interesting questions off act have arisen tonight therefore I would recommend to the Board that we postpone taking any action on this project this evening with the intent of researching and coming back with the information at another meeting to discuss further. Discussion regarding notice of hearing, residents of the proposed changed area concerned that they may not hear of the meeting in time to make the meeting. Councilman Potenza suggested to schedule further discussion for the Regular Town Board meeting on June 3rd, which was agreed to by everyone. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Noted that he was not satisfied with the short environmental assessment form, feeling more information was needed for this project and requested that the long environmental assessment form be used. Councilman Monahan agreed. SUPERVISOR BORGOS recognized members of the Citizens Environmental Advisory Committee present at the meeting and publicly complimented the Committee on the extremely successful household hazardous waste clean up day that was held this past Saturday. Approximately 400 households were represented here. Would like to compliment the dedication and efforts and time of all these individuals. BILL MORTON, Chairman of the Queensbury Citizens Committee on Environmental Issues gave a brief report on the out come of the Household Hazardous Waste Collection Day with a breakdown of what was collected. Recognized and thanked the committee members and all other volunteers involved in making the day such a success. JIM COUGHLIN, Superintendent of Landfill and project manager would like to thank everyone for their help and effort. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN thanked the citizens committee for their time, effort and dedication and would like to propose later in the meeting a formal resolution of appreciation both to our Environmental Committee and to the League of Woman Voters for all that they have done for this day. PUBLIC HEARING OPEN 9: 10 P.M. REZONING REQUEST - C. DEIHL SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The next public hearing deals with the proposal to rezone the Deihl property on Sherman Avenue. I'll ask the Clerk if this was advertised? TOWN CLERK DOUGHER-Yes it has. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you very much. We have seen and heard portions of this proposal a couple of times in past weeks. (Recess) SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We have heard a little bit about this project in the past, tonight is the opportunity to hold a public hearing to see what the public comment is, any questions. We would ask first that we follow the same rules as in the previous hearing. People raise their hands, be recognized and step forward. State name, address and either ask questions or make comment about or perhaps you are an expert and you're willing to have questions asked of you. We are ready at any time, who will be first? There's a much smaller crowd here for the record. WILSON MATHIAS-I'm a lawyer with offices at 525 Bay Road. I represent Charles Deihl the owner of this property. I guess I don't want to wave my right to an opening statement. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Do you want to pole the jury now or ... ATTORNEY MATHIAS-I'm reminded, poor Mr. Girard and I, our sons play on the same hockey team, 7,8,9 year olds and we took a trip up to Burlington which is a fairly good trip, if it's snowy and icy and you have a game that's fairly early in the morning which the littlest kids do and we took a 23 to zip loss and I thought that public hearing was similar to his experience, hopefully not mine. Anyway I think if I give a brief overview, I may either raise some questions or provide some answers to people before they get up and I obviously will make myself available to respond to any questions they've got. Mr. Deihl owns 48, a little over 48 acres ofland on the south side of Upper Sherman Island Avenue. The property is approximately 4,000 feet easterly of the intersection of Sherman and West Mt. Road. Some land marks are, there's a fairly large city owned parcel of, if people were driving along Sherman Avenue from the City, on the right hand side they would see a big area of vacant land that's owned by the City of Glens Falls and on the left hand side of the road they probably see what people call Doctor Karp's fourplex apartments but you can see a series of four unit apartments that would be immediately to the east of this property or the right hand side of this map. Just to give you a quick bit of background, last summer the Planning Board gave Mr. Deihl preliminary approval for a 46 unit townhouse design cluster concept on this property. It's currently zoned SRI acre, 1 acre per housing unit. Basically what Mr. Deihl proposed to the Planning Board was 46 townhouse units which worked out mathematically there's approximately 2 acres of road. We used a cluster concept taking into account the desire to preserve some open space, set the units back from Sherman Avenue and provide a nice buffer zone with the neighbors. I think it is important to note that the, to the immediate right or to the east here, are the fourplexes, they are now individually owned but they are four family units, rental units. To the south of this property is one of the few mobile home overlay zones within the Town of Queensbury and to the east of the property, excuse me, to the west of the property is Higgs and Crayford Subdivision, the name, I think it's Cranberry Lane, I don't know what the name of the subdivision but that's the Town road that serves it. As I said, we received preliminary approval from the Planning Board, in order to do that we had to provide a significant amount of engineering data to assure the Town's engineers that we were able to site 46 individual septic systems in this area. As everybody knows the buzz word here and it's a fact, the property is located within the aquifer recharge area as is virtually, I would say, 80 percent of the land in the Town of Queensbury. It is not sewered, it does lie within the water district. Basically after getting the preliminary approval and looking at marketing these units of probably somewhere really in the range initially 80, we determined that the cost was going to be more than what, more than that and as a result of the current housing situation, basically Mr. Deihl determined that he was going to be able to sell those, market those units. With the advent of the Adams Rich rezoning for affordable housing, we took a look at what happened with them and you know obviously the land use planning, the master plan for the Town indicates a need for affordable housing and I think they took a major first step in kind of breaking the ground on behalf of our applicants on that issue. I guess we're kind of the next folks in line. We've provided with to you, a long form environmental assessment form as opposed to the other project in front of you. We've provided a traffic study done by Morris Engineering that basically indicates that there is not going to be an impact on the Upper Sherman Avenue or Sherman Avenue Road from the increased numbers of cars if the zoning is increased as we've requested. I think also within the package we provide at least some suggested covenants and restrictions which would fall in line in terms of the affordability and hopefully resolve the issue of, if you get the property rezoned for affordable housing, what makes you sell it at lower rates than maybe what you could get otherwise. You know it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that we use the same looping concept of the road which I think provides us with 2 entrances onto Upper Sherman Avenue which is good for fire protection and clearly helps us strengthen the water system because of the loop that the water line would have to provide. We are not making really a significant change in the length in that road so what is happening is, we are attempting to spread the cost basically of the infrastructure over more units. The result of that is that the purchase price for at least land costs and infrastructure for each individual unit can obviously be reduced. The other really effective I think obviously cost savings device is by using attached housing. Of course you've got a situation with common walls, you're digging one basement at a time and there are some cost savings involved with that which I think will enable Mr. Deihl to be able to comply with the covenants and restrictions with respect to the cost that he can ask for these houses. I think the other thing that's important to note, we've certainly utilized the cluster concept. We're going to have a homeowners association that owns the bulk of this property. It would appear to me that roughly 15 acres or so of the 48 will be disturbed in terms of building sites and road ways thereby preserving approximately 66 percent of the property in its natural state. I think the other big advantage to something like that in addition to keeping alot of trees and amenities like that, is that we're going to preserve the buffer areas and we are also going to avoid the situation of alot of lawn to be maintained with people putting chemicals and that kind of stuff into the aquifer recharge area. You'll note that if you look at our proposal, the closest unit on Sherman Avenue is 110 feet south of it. Just to give you and the folks an idea, the closest or the farthest unit of the Karp fourplexes, is 57 feet from the road. So these units are going to be twice as far back in terms of their location in the woods. I think that they will be virtually undetectable. I mean there are enough trees there to keep them screened from the folks across the street and from everybody driving along the scenic corridor. The other thing I wanted to quickly touch base and gee all those people that were worried about tax assessments and building up the tax base have left, you know, we're probably going to hear some other things but its obvious with the additional units we're asking for there's going to be an additional increase to the tax base as a result of those units. We're going to pay more money for recreation fees, etc. I guess my final comment would be that to remind you or bring your attention back to the draft study that you did with respect to creating an overlay zone for affordable housing. Now we put this project together without the benefit of seeing those notes until the project was done and Mr. Dusek and Ms. York have graciously allowed us to look in the secret box and review those documents. I think there's just a couple of points that I want to hit on. One, within that criteria and I understand not law yet but actually I have to say there's some good things to think about. One of the things that she cross references is the master plan that the Town did in terms of, number 1, declaring that there really was a need for affordable housing. Obviously there is one project that's been approved for that and the 40 units and I think that prior data clearly indicates that there's a need for more than 40. I think that we've got something that's beginning to meet that need. I think another thing that the master plan talks about is a mixture of housing types which I think that the Town has come, you know, concept obviously provides a little different alternative to the Adams Rich single family detached residences. I think that, again the master plan refers to zero lot lines and innovative zoning techniques and clearly that's what we're utilizing over here. The other thing and I guess Mrs. York could argue with me but she established a point system as you may recall for reviewing these projects and I think one of the most important criteria and I think this certainly makes sense for everybody is you get 10 points for being in the sewer district. Well we're not. We just aren't, that's all, there are few that are and that's the way it goes. But clearly if you are going to increase density, common sense and good planning say that you've got to take care of your septic and I think that's important. So the highest point total we could have or anybody outside of the sewer district can have is a 90. Now by my reckoning I come up with an 85 looking at the point system and I believe that we would confirm that that's a number that she comes up with. Of course grading can be subjective as Mr. Borgos knows but ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Always objective. ATTORNEY MATHIAS-Always objective, right so its just a fair 85. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-We're not all satisfied with that 100 point grading system either. ATTORNEY DUSEK-Right but I think when you look at it, again here is a good project to test the criteria because you've got a live body and you can see how it works. I think we've given some thought to this thing, not just throw something together and I think when you look at it against your criteria, it scores pretty well. The one other thing that I do want to say because I followed it up with Karen Ray this morning and that is that this project would, is currently on the, would be served by the Greater Glens Falls Transit System. There is an Upper Sherman Avenue loop. It goes by 5 days or 5 times a day and in talking things over with Karen I think obviously if we were to generate a higher degree of ridership, they would provide more trips. The final thing for everybody to know is that these are going to be 2 family residences or not 2 family, 2 bedroom residences individually owned. We are not looking to, these aren't going to be apartments to lease or something. We envision the units to be owned by people meeting the income criteria. They're going to have basements. At this point there's some, we haven't gotten a definite in terms of the garage situation but there certainly will not be more than a 1 car garage. I think we've got the transit system available to us and we're going to encourage people to utilize it. I think that the idea here is to sell these things to people basically really young married starting off or folks who aren't going to go to the senior citizen housing. You know, again the likely hood would be that they would certainly have 1 or no cars and again with public transportation available, it seems to fit that need. So with that I certainly will give up the mike and try to respond to any questions others have. SUPERVISOR BORGOS- Thank you, I think you covered just about everything but that's alright. Anyone in the audience have any questions, comments? Please identify yourself, fire away. CAROL PUL VER-I do have a few questions as I was sitting there. As you all know, I'm a housing advocate so but at this point I haven't made a decision. First of all, I would like to know the cost of these homes are? I think its very important if its going to be for affordable housing that it truly is affordable housing and normally at this stage when he would have laid it out he would have some idea and had some bids to get an idea of what these homes are going to cost. To rezone for affordable housing without having any idea of what the homes are going to cost, you may end up rezoning and it won't serve the purpose. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You are interested in knowing what the cost would be if they were to be sold today? MRS. PULVER-Yes, per unit. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Not 6 months or a year from now, its unpredictable. MRS. PULVER-Well, no actually when you get your bids, if you make it clear that this will be a project, say, that's going to be starting in the fall, they would bid it ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-But we know sometimes you don't hit starting times. That's why I'm saying you're looking at a today number. I think normally in rezoning we don't get into this kind of detail but I think in this case we should. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-All we're asking for is a budget cost Carol and we can't get ... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-In this case we should because there are some specific conditions attached and we did do this for the other affordable housing that we did. MRS. PULVER -Yea, if you're speaking affordable housing there is some criteria that you really need to follow to be sure that its affordable housing. The other thing is I know the MSA is 30,100 dollars right now, we're waiting for the new census to come out. Which really means that these homes can't cost any more than about 60,000 dollars. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Welllet us ask. Do you want one answer at a time? MRS. PULVER-No, no let me go through my list, okay. I agree with clustering, great idea. The other question I have is on the townhouse units is, if the applicants have done any sort of need survey. I don't know what the need is for this type of housing, for townhouses in Queensbury. I do know there is a need for single family detached. I also do not know in the townhouse situation, I know that Queen Victoria's Grant which is similar to a townhouse, how many of them are unoccupied, I haven't done a survey on that to know that again, whatever projects are going on in the area, so that this possibly could be a project that could get approval and start to be built and never be sold. I don't think that would be good to have all these units around that wouldn't be sold. So I am concerned whether or not they think there is a need or can they show us something that says, you know our master plan says we need affordable housing and we need mixed but it didn't say in 1991 we need townhouses and single family or so forth. Also I would like to know if the Board is going to require a nonprofit to oversee the application project, process of these homes which would insure that we actually had median income earners and under occupying these homes and if the Board is going to require that as part of the rezoning, I would like to know who they are going to designate as the agent to oversee the application process. Whether or not there are any grant money involved and also what type of report the Board is going to request to be sure again that these homes will be actually occupied by median income earners. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We may have to ask you to repeat those questions. MRS. PUL VER-I guess that's about the only questions that I had. What type of report you are going to require? Again if the rezoning, one of the stipulations will be that a nonprofit monitor the application process and cost. That's it, that covers it. SUPERVISOR BORGOS- Thank you. I'll ask Mr. Mathias would you or your client wish to address those? COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Mrs. Pulver, I would like have on the record, she's a member of the Queensbury Planning Board and Executive Director of Home Front. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I think that's appropriate. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Just for the record. ATTORNEY MATHIAS-One of those questions was directed to you and I can't answer that in terms of who is going to monitor things other than to say that I think that we look at this as a contract type zone situation. In other words we're going to be looking for a certain type of zoning and in exchange for that we're going to agree to certain conditions and requirements. We're not asking in terms of the affordability issue and its clearly a valid one. I mean the first time sales, what happens and I think as I understand Mrs. Pulvers, not Mrs. Pulvers, the Adams Rich project in terms of the grant monies that that program works, there's basically a provision with you know under the grant in terms of restraints on the first buyer when he turns around to sell it within a certain amount of time, how much money they can get back and maybe that's right. Maybe that's right because they're using my money and your money to do that. Whereas anybody buying one of these units is going to be using their own money. In terms of in one of the questions that I can answer, I think that the price that we are looking to you know a purchase price would be somewhere between 60,000 and 65,000 dollars. Again I think that the, I'm not going to give you a price right now because I don't know what the median numbers are going to be. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We all know that's impossible because you haven't taken your bids ... ATTORNEY MATHIAS-But I think, we're certainly aware of those rules and it clearly wouldn't be fair for us to come in and say give us affordable housing, give us 54 more units than we're entitled to and then sell them for what we were going to sell the 46. I mean that's not fair and there's certainly some restrictions that I think you negotiate and you sign a covenants and restrictions that get filed in the County Clerk's office. Frankly I think that the banks attorneys and borrowers attorneys or buyers attorneys representing people are going to want to make sure that those covenants and restrictions have been complied with in terms of buying it. Now that's on the first one. In terms of a need study, frankly we have not done a marketing study that says we can sell a 100 of these units. I think like anything else you take a look at the market, see what's out there. Is this something that can go? I think that the feeling is that they are sellable. I think that I do know to one of the questions about the Queen Victoria's Grant situation because I spoke with a lawyer for Guyer at a closing on one of the units and they had at this point or as oflast Friday, they had 12 of them that had not been sold and that they had an open house the Saturday before and they had contracts on 5 others so that would presumably leave as of last Friday, 7. I don't know how many units those were, that was alot and that's about 3 year period. I mean they certainly have sold them, its not like he built a 150 of them and sold 10. They went and I think that's the track record we take a look at to say, gee, maybe we can do that too. Now the cost of marketing studies just like environmental impact studies, like everything else in these things all generate expenses to have professionals do it. The answer to that question simply we have not done one. We're just looking at what kind of a common sense or business man's approach to what the market appears to be. We think there's a need for it. I think that there's no question if we get this approval the subdivision requirements call for phasing and I think that this would be one probably where we would have hopefully alot of phases, with a small number of units. So we don't just go in and build 72 of them and only sell 26 or something. So that's how I would say we're going to handle that. The other question at least as I was keeping track of, is the issue of with the Town Board create some type of housing authority to monitor the situation and that's really, you know those are your rules, not, fortunately I don't have to answer that question. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Would you like to speak again? MRS. PULVER-On one question. Is, when there is no government funding involved, its not necessary that they make any stipulation as to what happens once the house is sold. You know if they make a 100,000 dollars profit, they are entitled to keep the 100,000 dollars. It's only when you have government funding that you need to have the guidelines and the government has so many and you can add so many more to it, to try to protect these homes and this money that have gone into it to be sure that it is affordable. My only concern going back to the affordability and what these homes are cost is that the government also does define affordability. What is affordable housing and its what a median income earner can afford to buy and you start out what the median income is and then you know how much the mortgage can be and I don't really think that the banks are going to care whether or not the applicant makes 40,000 dollars a year or 50,000 dollars a year if they want to buy one of these houses. But I think the Town should be concerned that these homes will be going to median income earners and be sold as affordable housing. And median income will probably change very fast, the numbers again, it changes quite often. But I think the Town should be concerned with that and you are going to need someone that is going to watch out to be sure that these homes are going to teachers and people making median income and not 40,00 or 50,000 dollars, getting in fast, making a few dollars and then you know selling the units. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-I'm not quite sure what avenues would be used but there's certainly avenues out there that can be used. I mean if it's within the deed restrictions of the development, that can be used. I mean, as a real estate broker and I sell mortgages or I sell property where the buyers have to qualify for certain mortgages. For instances a sunny may mortgage, it's a first time home buyer and we have to meet the criteria of what they require as far as income level goes and debt ratio, eccetra. So there are other avenues to, for a checks and balances to make sure that these houses go to affordable people in the affordable income. Not necessarily first time home buyers, it could be a retired couple. So I think you know I am ... MRS. PULVER-No, right, that's right. I'm not interested in any of that. I'm just interested in their income with this. There's no government money involved so ... COUNCILMAN POTENZA-That's right. I have no desire as sitting on this Board to set up some sort of a housing authority in this Town to regulate affordable housing in this Town. I think the private sector, the non-for-profits will do a fine job with that. But I do think there is ways of checks and balances that we can do with this type of a project that will regulate or at least guide it so that it can go to affordable housing purchasers. MRS. PUL VER-I guess my question is that maybe, I do not know Paul, deed restricting? You cannot give it a number, say affordable...because that number changes. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I am not sure because that anybody on this Town Board is hung up with the term affordable, I think that Mr. Deihl has said, I could build 28 or 46 houses for $130,000 dollars as a businessman I know that, that market range, that price range is not selling right now and there is a glut on the market he has turned around and said but I will tell you what is selling more affordable housing is selling in the 65 to 75 thousand dollar range, I think I would like to take and roll the dice if you well as a businessman and ask for some increase in density so that I could do that kind of building. Now, I recognize that fact I am not hung up on affordability and the only problem that I am hung up on is I would not like to see some entrepreneur come in and buy 4 of these townhouses from Charlie for $60,000 dollars and rent them, that really would bother me. What I really would like to see is that in that price range more people would be able to have a home here. I do not want to make it hard, I do not want to make an administrative nightmare either. MRS. PUL VER-I do not want to disagree with some of what you say, I really do not disagree with it but there are some things that if we are going to make this affordable we have numbers that we have to go by. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-No, you have numbers, because you are working under a different criteria. MRS. PULVER-No, not everything I do is government subsidized, I do not have to work under government subsidized. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-The project that you a closely associated with has numbers. MRS. PUL VER- The government decides what numbers are affordable. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-We have no government funds in this project at all, I do not want a bunch of government bureaucracy. MRS. PUL VER-I do not want to argue with you George, going back to what Ron said if then we are going to increase the density for this property because 47 homes cannot reap the profit that 97 can than are we not giving preferential treatment and are we not just.. . COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-The we gave you people preferential treatment, with your danm subsidizes. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-...that is the wrong ...47 homes is not reaping a profit 47 at $130,000 year is not a marketable item today. 96 at $65,000 might prove to be much more marketable and that is what this businessman is doing, he is looking at what the market will bear and saying this is where I should be going. I think that is the way I read it ... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-That is the way I feel... MRS. PULVER-I guess I just don't understand it then, because... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Excuse me Carol, because I want to respond to what Ron said, then I think you are opening up another can of worms, if you do not have any criteria for changing the density of this land other than what the market is out there then every piece of land in this community should be rezoned because that is where the market is. And, that is what you are really saying by that kind of reasoning. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-No, you are not. You are going to take each project on its own merits. You cannot make a spot judgement on all of them. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But if that is the criteria, you are using, every piece of property in this community will be subject to higher density rezoning for that criteria. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Not necessarily. MRS. PULVER-And also if you are not give it a number as to what you consider to be affordable then also you are allowing them a lot of flexibility to sell again to almost anybody they want to sell to because you haven't defined what you feel is affordable. If you are not going to accept what the government says is affordable then ... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA- They are risking their money not the governments money. MRS. PULVER-Well it's your town, George. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Or the taxpayers money, they have a perfect right to. MRS. PULVER-Don't you want to do what is best for the Town? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any other questions, ...any specifics? ok. Let me see if there are any other members of the audience who wish to ask questions? I see no hands, do you want another shot? Parting shot, I hope? MR. MATHIAS-I hope it is a parting shot. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I got some questions for Wilson. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Before you sit down, Mrs. Monahan would like to ask questions. MR. MATHIAS-Mrs. Monahan, to refute something that you have said here at least I do not think we are not coming in here saying the whole reason for you to do this is the market says you should. I think, that, that frankly that's the rational what happen. He did not get a vision, he did not say if you build it somebody will come, that's the reason, and you do have I think have a, obviously I think, we get a good grade, it was a great test, but seriously you have a criteria by which to judge these projects on the merits. You got a point system, you got nine specific measurable ways of giving points and maybe you can always argue whether we should get the full amount of the points or we should not on something but if you add it up on that you know criteria for density bonus we score very well. We are not in the sewer district but virtually all the other categories are something that we have. The only other thing that we have not addressed to give us five more brownie points is common storage. I guess I could argue that by providing basements that, that would be a fairly good in lieu of common storage that even if someone said gee maybe you ought to have some type of storage units available to people, again under the homeowners concept it is an easy thing to do maintain service etc. and the cost of it is going to be spread over everybody. I say judge us by those criteria, I think the tough question and we admit it is that there is no question that you can limit that first sale. I know, Carol's got some concerns about it in terms offairness and really what affordability is but I think we are talking about entering into a contract with covenants and restrictions that pretty much lock us into a formula that she can take a look at and say hey how come your selling this unit for X amount of dollars when it should have been y. I think, that is true, I do not believe that we can nor in my personal opinion should we limit that second sale. So that if someone comes in there meets the income eligibility in terms of falling within the group that we are trying the serve and if they are able to sell that at a profit, three, five, ten years from now, I say, that is the American System. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-I do not think we sit there and hang onto it. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-One quick point, you mentioned the transit authority when talking to Karen, if your project does get by this board and gains approval when you go to site plan review I would strongly urge you to talk to Karen, she has bus shelters that are free and you need to have that as part of your initial plan. MR. MATHIAS-She had mentioned that to me in discussing and actually said, that is something that the town I guess if, would have to say we would like one in this location. She talked about having it on the other side of the road, I would think we would want it on our side and I would think whoever owned on the other side would want it on our side. But... COUNCILMAN MONTESI-If you are thinking about putting it in your dedicated road, your loop it is a thought. MR. MA THIAS- That is true we could have it within the, have them make the loop instead of going to the outside. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any other comments from Board Members, Betty you said you have a bunch of questions? Mr. Tucker had his hand up next and you want to yield to Mrs. Pulver? Mr. Tucker, yields to Mr. Tucker. MRS. PULVER-My question is the affordable housing overlay, I am not aware that the Town Board has adopted that, have you? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-No. That is correct. MRS. PULVER-So the points that he is talking about, really does not mean anything at this point because we have not adopted that... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-He is talking about a methodology that could be used. MRS. PUL VER-I understand that, but I mean, we have... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Some of us agree with that some of us disagree with it. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Mr. Tucker, would you come forward, state your name and address please? MR. PLINEY TUCKER-Pliney Tucker, Ward 4, not to pin anybody down but before these gentlemen get final approval on this will you have an idea what these units are going to cost? And how many square feet are going to be in each unit? MR. MA THIAS- These things are a roll of the dice, you have got to spend a certain amount of money in terms of getting an engineer to draw these things and a point that I have not said and would like to make actually the straight zoning request would allow us more units than in fact we are asking for we are asking as part of the contact we have been told that we cannot get more than 100 so we are not going to ask for more than 100. But, you know, you got to, we could have also been told that the initial stage they were not interested so we have developed the numbers but I think like it or not there is going to be a little more of this project with a board before a final determination is made and I think we can put together some figures so that ...we have to do that when we go in front of the planning board. MR. TUCKER-I personally would like to know before the zoning is passed, just an idea.. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-A budget figure and a square footage figure that is all we are asking you can do that. MR. TUCKER-What the square footage would be and about what size the units. MR. MATHIAS-I think, we are happy to work up a budget I mean that is a fair question, I think it is important obviously we come up with a number 85 you know Carol is going to say whoa, wait a minute that is not affordable. MR. TUCKER-So would Pliney Tucker. MR. MATHIAS-So, I do not think that is an unfair question. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Mr. Knickerbocker do you have a comment? COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-We are not talking subsidizes...otherwise affordable housing would have to be subsidizes which is bull. MR. TUCKER-I do not believe I am playing politics, I do not think I have changed a bit. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I know that with all due respect. MR. TUCKER-What was the other question, I had another question I wanted to ask. Now you made me forget it. What I asked everybody else, are you going to try to use local people? ..... MR. TUCKER-Wonderful. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-He did not put that in writing Pliney... MR. TUCKER-I will trust him. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Ok. Mrs. Monahan, I believe is next. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Ok. I want to again clear up something that I have said and I heard it from the people that were here before that the majority of the housing units in this town people talk about tax base the majority of housing units in this town cost the town more in services than what they bring in, in taxes. I wish we would just take that as a given, that is a proven point and the figures are out there. Now, to get back to this, you answered some of my questions Wilson when you said that there was going to be basements. You do not know the area that the units are going to encompass yet, square feet. MR. MATHIAS-Well you know again, I think that we are probably talking somewhere in the 1200 sq. ft. range, I mean, I do not think that there is going to be significantly bigger than that, again we will need to probably touch base with some, the engineer and talk with some other folks to but I think that is a fairly close approximation. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-We are looking at budget estimates... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I did not have a chance to read these covenants and etc. until frankly right now, I do not think, we did not have copies of these, I borrowed this one from the Planning Dept. did we get those individually? MR. MA THIAS- That was a homeowners association, associated with the original, filing. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-But, I think we have something with a list of covenants. MR. MA THIAS- Those are covenants and restrictions that did not deal with the issue of you know affordability. I think I added... COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Some of the stuff in here is a little concern to me. Because I have had elderly friends of mine in mobile home parks with these associations and the assessment fee and what has driven them out is not the original cost of everything but their annual assessment fee kept going, up and up and up. So, I want to know what kind of protection is there? COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Own a condo and you will find out about it. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-That is what I mean, yes. These are people supposedly on limited incomes and you change that assessment fee, and I have to admit, I am not very knowledgeable in homeowners associations but I have heard that some of them do not work out to well particularly if you do not hire a professional manager. I am not going to mow the lawn someone else in this association is and it is not my turn etc. What guarantee will the Town have that this homeowners association will function so that this place is kept up because the people are only going to own the footprint. MR. MATHIAS-I guess the guarantee is that in order to have it fly it has got to be approved by the Attorney General's Office in terms of, we file this along with and offering plan... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-It comes under the condominium law in the State of New York and they are very strict I have written up a couple of those. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I have been in a few of those that are very poorly maintained. That is why I asked that. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-What about Dixon Heights, how does Dixon Heights Association work or Victoria Grants Association works? MR. MATHIAS-I think that at least from the and again you are always going to get two points of view, one as a sponsors attorney basically the only thing that I am going to want to make sure that is in those things is that he has control until most of them are sold. So that he is generating the, well then again its something that goes over to the homeowners association that people that live there have certainly have a vested interest in what those costs are who they hire, you know there are going to be things like issues of garbage collection of snow plowing you know maintenance of the driveways that are in there, plantings and all of those things are great hot bed issues for I would think they would make meetings like this seem like small potatoes when you are talking about it. But, I think, that in terms of assurances I cannot guarantee anything, we set up a legal document and once Charlie sells the units it is up to the people that live there. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I have been in some of them that have been very poorly maintained and that is why I have asked this question. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-That is the owner inside he owns from wall to wall. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No, I am talking about outside the maintenance of the ... MR. MATHIAS-I think one of the things that we are going to do is that we are probably going to have to limit exactly what it is that, that we say we are going to do it would be great to have a tennis court, it would be great to have walking trails and I mentioned this to Mrs. Pulver at the Planning Board and she said well, what are you trying to sell and obviously I am trying to sell this project, but those types of things as a practical matter are extremely costly in the sense of maintenance and particularly with respect to insurance, that is really as I understand it the killer in the cost thing. So, that I look at it in kind of a bear bones situation with a minimal type of services, again, what it is not going to help us if the whole concept is affordability and the mortgage payments are affordable but they got to pay $300. a month to the homeowners association. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Wilson, this is another question I had down, because you said you are going to disturb as little land as possible which is great, but, looking through this I am just wondering what provision is made for recreation on site? I am not thinking about anything fancy but I have gone through some of our best streets in this town and fine that is where the little kids and I am taking about 2 and 3 year olds are riding the tricycle and where they are playing ball and so on and so forth. I would hope with 100 lots there is going to be some provisions since nobody owns any land outdoors to do this type of thing. The other thing I was concerned about is your parking your recreational vehicles that all those have to be within a garage if you are going to have garages but then I foresee the thing that your garages are going to be full and the car is going to be outside so it is really, the garage is going to be a storage area when you come right down to brass tacks. MR. MATHIAS-Well, I think again Betty, you have to remember that those covenants and restrictions were designed when the project was different in scope than it is now and clearly. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Those were for the original, 46? MR. MATHIAS-Those were for the ...we are figuring, this, these are two bedroomjobbies I just do not see them having RV's. and two car garage on the other units, it is really a different, we are going to have to reach re-tool those things. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well, maybe this question am asking doesn't have any bearing then, because I see the lessee in here and this is what I am wondering is there going to be any restrictions in this plan so that somebody doesn't come in and buy up 6 or 7 units and just use them as rental property. MR. MATHIAS-Well, again I think that there are we are saying at least with respect to 50% of them which, that's what we see as the rules here that will not happen. We are saying we cannot do that and anyone looking at them anybody examining the, we write the Clerk sets a transfer tax on it so they know what the cost was those are, those are the rules that we are going to operate with. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any other questions..none here, none, here, no one from the public we will close this public hearing..J retract my last words on advice from our Town Attorney I would recommend to the Board that we continue this public hearing, I understand we are looking for a few more technical answers and at some point in the very near future we hope to have those and then close the hearing. ATTORNEY DUSEK-We have some SEQRA issues that have to be resolved and once they are... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We thank you for coming in we will not be taking any action on this, this evemng. PUBLIC HEARINGS (2) Local Law on Codification Amend Zoning Ordinance-Codification SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Hearings have been left open, is there anyone present to speak in regard to these two public hearings...hearing none the public hearing was closed... ATTORNEY DUSEK-At this point we have one further technicality the Warren Co. Planning Board did not consider this matter they indicated that it was an error they left it off their agenda or something of that nature at this point we just need to wait a few more days until the 30 days expires next week and you will be able to take action without their ruling. If you were to wait for them you would have to wait until June 8th and there is nothing under the law to require that you wait after the 30 day time period. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That is something that we would consider at a Special Meeting next week... For the record I would like to indicate that we do have a proclamation here proclaiming May 15th as Transit Appreciation Day... OPEN FORUM MR. MIKE BAIRD-Queensbury, Public Hearings are always first? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Noted that years ago Public Hearings were last, several years ago we set them for the beginning... ATTORNEY DUSEK-The Board Town has adopted Roberts Rules of Order and that indicates that Public Hearings will occur first. MR. BAIRD-Noted the small print for ads in the paper questioned if anything could be done? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The Law requires us to put it in the legal ads... MR. BAIRD-Noted that the Cities meetings appears in the events page... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Our meetings usually appear there, the press are always notified of all of our meetings...We have asked the newspaper to write a little article describing what is going to be discussed... MR. BAIRD-Questioned what the public can do ... COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Noted that letters to the Editor do wonderful work... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-From a business perspective it would appear to me that the customers of the newspaper who are the subscribers and advertisers would have some kind of say and I would recommend strongly that the advertisers of the newspapers gee, we pay to have the newspaper printed we would be happy if you would put in a little press releases and articles telling us what is happening in this town.... MR. TUCKER-Noted that on the obituary page today there was an article describing the projects on tonight. .. MS. KATHY-Noted that there are very few line pages done each day and the obituary page is one of them the ...so anything the newspaper feels is important goes on the obituary page... MR. STEVE SUTTON-Representing Queensbury Business Association, Re: Parking Requirements for all commercial establishment...spoke on the advantages of 9' parking spaces vs. 10' we are asking to have the parking spaces reduced to 9'... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Noted that the Board has been several times and that is one of the changes proposed to be made...the Town Attorney is putting that in final form. MR. STEVE SUTTON-The QBA is looking for an exciting night coming up on June 11, 1991 we are planning on running a Candidates night we will open it to our membership as well as the public...Queensbury Elementary School 7:00 P.M. OPEN FORUM CLOSED COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Ralph VanDusen our Deputy Water Superintendent received the Operator of the Year from the New York State Chapter of the American Water Works Association...Mrs. Lee York has been asked to be a speaker at a DEC seminar... RESOLUTIONS RESOLUTION TO APPOINT RECYCLING DIRECTOR FOR THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY RESOLUTION NO. 286, 1991, Introduced by the entire Town Board. RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby appoints Mr. James Coughlin, Landfill Superintendent to the position of Recycling Director for the Town of Queensbury in accordance with the Recycling Law, Local Law Number 4 of 1991. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1991, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos NOES: None ABSENT: None RESOLUTION TO APPROVE MINUTES RESOLUTION NO. 287, 1991, Introduced by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mr. George Kurosaka: RESOLVED, that the Town Board minutes of April 4th, 15th and 22nd. 1991 be and hereby are approved. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1991 by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE ISSUANCE OF $830,000 SERIAL BONDS OF THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY TO FINANCE THE INCREASE AND IMPROVEMENT OF FACILITIES OF THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY CONSOLIDATED WATER DISTRICT BY CONSTRUCTING AN ADDITIONAL AND NEW ADMINISTRATIVE BUILDING AND OTHER APPURTENANCES NECESSARY FOR A COMPLETELY OPERATIONAL ADMINISTRATION BUILDING RESOLUTION NO. 288, 1991, Introduced by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mr. George Kurosaka. WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury has heretofore created and consolidated the Queensbury Consolidated Water District, and WHEREAS, pursuant to the provisions of Section 202-b of the Town Law of the State of New York and more particularly a resolution of the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury duly adopted on the 22nd day of April, 1991, it has been determined to be in the public interest to acquire and construct a proposed improvement to the Queensbury Consolidated Water District consisting of an addition and new administration building and other appurtenances necessary for a completely operational administration building, the said project being more fully described in a map, plan and report on file with the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury, and WHEREAS, the maximum amount proposed to be expended for the increase or improvement is $830,000.00, WHEREAS, it is now desired to authorize payment of said increase and improvement and the financing thereof, and WHEREAS, this action for which this funding is proposed was designated as an unlisted action under the general regulations of the Department of Environmental Conservation and the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury previously conducted an environmental review and determined that there will be no significant environmental effects and adopted a notice of determination of non-significance, the same being on file with the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, by the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, as follows: SECTION 1. The specific object or purpose to be financed pursuant to this resolution is the cost of an increase or improvement to the Queensbury Consolidated Water District consisting of an improvement of the water filtration plant administration offices located at Corinth Road, Town of Queensbury by constructed an additional and new administration building of approximately 8,300 square feet adjacent to the existing administrative area of the plant, connecting the same by an enclosed walkway or an apparatus similar thereto; with the improvements to include all construction materials and other appurtenances necessary for a completely operational administration building as the same is more fully described in a map, plan and report on file with the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury. SECTION 2. The maximum estimated cost of the specific object or purpose is $830,000.00 and the plan for financing thereof is the issuance of $830,000.00 in serial bonds of said Town and is hereby authorized to be issued pursuant to the Local Finance Law. SECTION 3. It is hereby determined that the period of probable usefulness of aforesaid specific object or purpose is thirty (30) years, pursuant to subdivision 12 of paragraph a of Section 11.00 of the Local Finance Law. It is hereby further determined that the maximum maturity of the serial bonds herein authorized will exceed five (5) years. It is hereby determined that pursuant to Section 35.00(b) of the Local Finance Law that this bond resolution is not subject to permissive referendum and that a five percent (5%) down payment is not required pursuant to Section 107 of the Local Finance Law. SECTION 4. The faith and credit of said Town of Queensbury, New York, are hereby irrevocably pledged for the payment of the principal of and interest on such bonds as the same respectively become due and payable. There shall be annually apportioned assessed upon the several lots and parcels of land within said Queensbury Consolidated Water District which the Town Board shall determine as specified to be especially benefitted by the improvement, an amount sufficient to pay the principal and interest on said bonds as the same become due, bit if not paid from such source, all taxable real property in said Town shall be subject to the levy or Ad Valorem taxes without limitation as to rate or amount sufficient to pay the principal of and interest on said bonds as the same become due. SECTION 5. Subject to the provisions of the Local Finance Law, the power to authorize the issuance of and to sell bond anticipation notes in anticipation of the issuance and sale of the serial bonds herein authorized, including renewals of such notes, is hereby delegated to the Town Supervisor, the Chief Fiscal Officer. Such notes shall be of such terms, form and contents, and shall be sold in such manner, as may be prescribed by said Town Supervisor, consistent with the provisions of the Local Finance Law. SECTION 6. The powers and duties of advertising the bonds for sale, conducting the sale and awarding the bonds, are hereby delegated to the Town Supervisor, who shall advertise the bonds for sale, if appropriate, conduct the sale and award the bonds in such manner as he shall deem best for the interest of the Town of Queensbury, provided, however, that in the exercise of these delegated powers he shall comply fully with the provisions of the Local Finance Law and any order or rule of the State Comptroller applicable to the sale of municipal bonds. The receipt of the Town Supervisor shall be a full acquittance to the purchaser of such bonds who shall not be obliged to see to the application of the purchase money. SECTION 7. The validity of such bonds or notes or any bond anticipation notes issued in anticipation of the sale of such bonds may be contested only if: 1) Such obligations are authorized for any object or purpose for which the Town of Queensbury is not authorized to expend money, or 2) The provisions oflaw which should be complied with at the date of the publication of this resolution are not substantially complied with an action, suit or proceeding contesting such validity, is commenced within twenty (20) days after the date of such publication, or 3) Such obligations are authorized in violation of the provisions of the constitution. SECTION 8. This resolution shall be published in full by the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury in the official newspaper of the Town of Queensbury, together with a notice of the Town Clerk substantially in the form provided in Section 81.00 of the Local Finance Law. SECTION 9. This resolution is not subject to permissive referendum. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1991, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos NOES: None ABSENT: None RESOLUTION DESIGNATING THE PLANNING BOARD OF THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY AS LEAD AGENCY WITH REGARD TO CERTAIN MINOR AMENDMENTS TO THE SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS RESOLUTION NO. 289, 1991, Introduced by Mr. Ronald Montesi who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mrs. Betty Monahan: WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury has been notified that the Planning Board of the Town of Queensbury desires to be lead agency for SEQRA purposes regarding the adoption of certain minor amendments to the Town of Queensbury Subdivision Regulations, which amendments are to be included in the Code of the Town of Queensbury, and WHEREAS, said Town Board has reviewed said amendments and has no objection to the aforementioned request, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby consents to the designation of the Planning Board of the Town of Queensbury as lead agency with regard to certain minor amendments to the Subdivision Regulations of the Town of Queensbury. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1991, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None RESOLUTION STATING DESIRE OF TOWN BOARD TO BE LEAD AGENT IN CONNECTION WITH SEQRA REVIEW FOR PROPOSED LOCAL LAW AMENDING THE CODE OF THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY, CHAPTER 136 RESOLUTION NO. 290, 1991, Introduced by Mrs. Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mr. Ronald Montesi: WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is currently considering the adoption of certain amendments to the Sewage Disposal Ordinance of the Town of Queensbury, now known as Chapter 136 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury, concerning standards for leaching facilities and single family septic systems, and WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board desires to complete the necessary SEQRA review, and it is necessary, as a part thereof, to determine which agency shall be lead agency, and WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board desires to be lead agent in connection with said SEQRA review, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby indicates that a preliminary review of the proposed Local Law to Amend the Code of the Town of Queensbury, Chapter 136 Thereof Entitled Sewers and Sewage Disposal to Amend and Add a New Paragraph Concerning Standards for Leaching Facilities and Single Family Septic Systems, is hereby preliminarily determined to be a Type I Action under SEQRA and determine that coordinated review is necessary, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby indicates its desire to be lead agency, and authorizes the Queensbury Town Attorney to notify all involved agencies that the Town desires, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that a copy of this resolution, together with a copy of the proposed low, and Part I of the EAF shall be mailed out to the involved agencies, with request to be lead agent. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1991, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING SUPERVISOR TO SIGN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY AND MARY ELLEN HILL-PIERCE REGARDING REVIEW OF ASSESSMENT DATA RESOLUTION NO. 291, 1991, Introduced by Mrs. Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mr. Ronald Montesi: WHEREAS, an agreement with Mary Ellen Hill-Pierce d/b/a Hill Pierce Appraisals for review, updating and correlation of assessment data on approximately 650 residential properties located near or adjacent to Lake George in the Town of Queensbury has been prepared, and WHEREAS, Mary Ellen Hill-Pierce has furnished a proposal whereby all of the aforementioned work would be accomplished for the sum of #23.00 per parcel reviewed, and WHEREAS, the aforesaid agreement has been reviewed and approved, in form, by the Town Attorney, and is presented to this meeting, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves of the aforesaid agreement and hereby authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to execute said agreement, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the aforesaid services be paid forfrom the Re-Valuation Project Account, #01 1355 4741. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1991, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None RESOLUTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING ON PROPOSED LOCAL LAW NO. , 1991 A LOCAL LAW AMENDING LOCAL LAW NO.4 OF 1991 TITLTED A LOCAL LAW PROVIDING FOR MANDATORY COLLECTION, SOURCE SEPARATION AND SEGREGATION OF RECYCLABLES OR REUSABLE MATERIAL FROM SOLID WASTE RESOLUTION NO. 292, 1991, Introduced by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mr. George Kurosaka: WHEREAS, at this meeting there has been presented for adoption by the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, Local Law No. _, 1991, A Local Law Amending Local Law NO.4 of 1991 titled a Local Law Providing for Mandatory Collection, Source Separation and Segregation of Recyclables or Reusable Material from Solid Waste, and WHEREAS, such legislation is authorized pursuant to the Municipal Home Rule Law of the State of New York, and WHEREAS, prior to adoption of said Local Law, it is necessary to conduct a public hearing, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED AND ORDERED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury shall meet and hold a public hearing at the Activities Center, 531 Bay Road, Queensbury, Warren County, New York, at 7:00 p.m., on the 3rd day of June, 1991, to consider said Local Law No. _, 1991 and to hear all persons interested on the subject matter thereof concerning the same to take such action thereon as is required or authorized by law, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED AND ORDERED, that the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury is hereby directed to publish and post the notice that has also been presented at this meeting concerning the proposed Local Law, NO. _, 1991 in the manner provided by law. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1991, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None ATTORNEY DUSEK noted the proposed changes on the last page of the document dealing with the fines. Noted that the imprisonment part of it has been removed entirely, making it consistent with the City of Glens Falls. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN requested some research be done regarding fines on littering in the Town of Queensbury. ATTORNEY DUSEK recommended that once the general code is in place, I believe alot of our fines will change as a part of that whole process so you may already find that they've been elevated. If they are not to your likely, we can change them once again. RESOLUTION TO APPOINT MEMBER TO ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS RESOLUTION NO. 293, 1991, Introduced by Mr. Ronald Montesi who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mrs. Betty Monahan: WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury has previously established the Zoning Board of Appeals, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby appoints Mr. Theodore Turner to serve as a member of the Zoning Board of Appeals, said term to expire on May 17, 1996, and further designates Mr. Turner to serve as Chairman of the Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals, pursuant to Town Law Section 267. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1991, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None Supervisor noted that KatWeen Kathe who has been working closely with the billing process for the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District has made a recommendation to transfer the accounting and billing responsibilities of this district directly to the Waste Water Department to work in conjunction with the Water Department. Also to retain the services of Edwards, Williams, McManus and Ricciardelli to help in all the accounting work and programming work to transfer this to the sewer department. I have a proposal from Edwards, Williams, stating the summary of the process which should take between 46 and 66 hours. Their rate is $65.00 per hour. I would propose that we retain their services with the services to be billed to the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District in amount not to exceed $5,000.00. RESOLUTION TO RETAIN SERVICES OF EDWARDS, WILLIAMS, MCMANUS, RICCIARDELLI CERTIFIED PUBLIC ACCOUNTANTS RESOLUTION NO. 294, 1991, Introduced by Mr. Ronald Montesi who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza: RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby transfers the accounting and billing responsibility of the Queensbury Central Quaker Road Sewer Dist. to the Wastewater Dept. to work in conjunction with the Water Dept. and be it further RESOLVED, that Edwards, Williams, McManus, Ricciardelli Certified Public Accountants be retained to do all the accounting work necessary and programming necessary to transfer this to the Sewer Department as per their proposal submitted to the Queensbury Town Board, and be it further RESOLVED, that this service is to be billed to the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer Dist. in an amount not to exceed $5,000. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1991 by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None SUPERVISOR BORGOS noted for the record some time ago Pyramid, Aviation Mall proposed a major expansion, that expansion depends completely on the sale by the Town of Queensbury of a narrow strip of road approximately 70 feet wide, about 1,000 feet long or so, a portion of the former Quaker Hill Road running from Aviation Road southerly. We had a long negotiation process with the Mall, we arrived at an agreed upon price of $400,000 dollars. Its just over 3 acres of land. The proposal here is for the property to be sold for $100,000 dollars in cash, $50,000 dollars of that to be paid immediately, $50,000 dollars to be paid 1 year after closing. In addition, the Mall has agreed as part of the selling price to move 100,000 cubic yards of their sand to any place of our choosing in the Town. We are proposing that the Mall move this to our almost empty sand pit near exit 18 on Big Bay Road which will provide us approximately 10 years of road sand. That we are saying has an estimated value to us of $3.00 per cubic yard delivered to the site. Those 2 numbers together then add up to $400,000 dollars which is slightly above the appraisal price of the property. ATTORNEY DUSEK noted that this is a contract that has been negotiated a few times between my office and Pyramid in terms of documentation and preparation. The document that you have in front of you, I am satisfied with but I have to tell you it is not exactly what Pyramid has given to us. There are some various things that they have wanted which I'm recommending to you not to give them at least at this point and see where we go. But just so that you are aware of that, that when we launch this it may come back at us that they don't like some of the things that are in here. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The public should also know that there are water lines running through there and there's even a piece of a sewer line. In addition to all these dollars and movement of earth that we've talked about, the Mall must obviously agree to repair, replace, move all those other water lines and sewer lines. We're looking at very large expenditures. RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING SALE OF PROPERTY TO THE PYRAMID COMPANY OF GLENS FALLS RESOLUTION NO. 295, 1991, Introduced by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mr. George Kurosaka: WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury is desirous of selling certain property located off Aviation Road, as shown on the Town of Queensbury Tax Map as number 98-1 (no lot number), and labeled Queensbury Hill Road, to the Pyramid Company of Glens Falls, and WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, after having the property appraised by a certified real property appraiser and after considering the size of the subject property and the fact that said property is located such that, in the opinion of the Town Board, its best value may be obtained by selling the same to an adjoining property owner and by retaining a right to obtain sand from said property, and WHEREAS, a Contract of Sale with the Pyramid Company has been presented at this meeting, and WHEREAS, the Town Board is desirous to authorizing and completing the purchase of said property once a sale contract has been executed, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that this Resolution shall authorize sale of said property, but not obligate the Town to sell the aforementioned property until the contract has been executed and the permissive referendum period expires without a request for referendum being filed or, if such is filed, until the sale is approved by an affirmative majority of qualified electors of the Town of Queensbury voting on the proposition, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that, pursuant to the Town Law of the State of New York, Section 64(2), and subject to the conditions of this Resolution, the Town Supervisor is hereby authorized to execute and place the seal of the Town of Queensbury on the sale contract, as well as the deed and any other documents necessary to sell the property, to arrange for transfer of ownership to the Pyramid Company of Glens Falls, arrange for transfer of the title documents to the attorney for the Pyramid Company of Glens Falls, and collect payment for said property, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that payment for the property shall be deposited in the appropriate account, as determined by the Town Supervisor as Chief Fiscal Officer of the Town of Queensbury, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that, in accordance with section 64 of the Town Law of the State of New York, this Resolution is subject to a permissive referendum and the Town Clerk shall publish and post a copy of this Resolution in accordance with the procedures set forth in Article 7 of the Town Law of the Sate of New York with a notice that this Resolution was adopted on the date indicated herein, by the council persons indicated, an within the Town of Queensbury. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1991, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None RESOLUTION APPROVING AUDIT OF BILLS RESOLUTION NO. 296, 1991, Introduced by Mr. Ronald Montesi who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza. RESOLVED, that the Audit of Bills appearing on Abstract May 13th, 1991 numbering 91-22500 thru 91- 238100 and totaling $81,345.93 be and hereby is approved. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1991, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None DISCUSSION REGARDING TOP SOIL, regarding the issue of requiring insurance certificates. Attorney Dusek noted that we've studied that further and spoke with Paul McPhilips and at this point the insurance certificate idea is not working out as well as we would have thought. Noted all vehicles obviously by virtue of the fact that they are on New York State highways, have to have insurance certificates. Therefore I'm suggesting to this Board we really don't see a need for getting into a review of all those insurance certificates for anybody who might come onto the site. Also I might add that there's been some talk about possible sales to private individuals in which here again the insurance certificate question arises and it really just doesn't seem that its serving any significant purposes at this point. So we would like to propose at this time that the Board consider dropping that as requirement before you sell soil to somebody. The following resolution was proposed and agreed upon. RESOLUTION REGARDING SALE OF TOP SOIL RESOLUTION NO. 297, 1991, Introduced by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mr. Ronald Montesi: RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury here by after due consideration amends its previous resolution concerning the sale of Top Soil form Hovey Pond such that insurance certificates will not be required to be received and reviewed in advance of the sale and be it further RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor is hereby authorized to establish a system whereby top soil may be sold to private individuals other than the contractors with the dump trucks. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1991, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None RESOLUTION REGARDING HOURLY REIMBURSEMENT RATE RESOLUTION NO. 298, 1991, Introduced by Mr. George Kurosaka who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza: RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adopts a fee of$50.00 per hour reimbursement rate for anytime that we are able under the law to bill for the services for either of our Town Attorneys. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1991 by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 299, 1991, Introduced by Mr. Ronald Montesi who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza: RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby move into Executive Session to discuss personnel. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1991, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None RESOLUTION CALLING FOR REGULAR SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 300, 1991, Introduced by RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourn from Executive Session and enter Regular Session of the Town Board. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1991, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None RESOLUTION OF APPOINTMENT RESOLUTION NO. 301, 1991, Introduced by Mr. George Kurosaka who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mr. Ronald Montesi: RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby appoints Mr. Timothy Brewer of Candleberry Drive, Queensbury to the unexpired term and vacant position on the Queensbury Planning Board term to expire in 1994, a position previously held by Mr. Conrad Kupillas. Duly adopted this 13th day of May, 1991, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: None RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, DARLEEN M. DOUGHER TOWN CLERK TOWN OF QUEENSBURY