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1991-10-30 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING OCTOBER 30, 1991 4: 16 p.m. MTG#51 RES#574-577 TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT Supervisor Stephen Borgos Councilman Marilyn Potenza Councilman Ronald Montesi Councilman Betty Monahan Town Attorney Paul Dusek TOWN BOARD MEMBERS ABSENT Councilman George Kurosaka Supervisor Borgos-Welcome to this Special Town Board Meeting, this is the third this week, on the third day of the week. In a few minutes before we are done we will announce that we will have a special one tomorrow again. I figured as much last week when we were looking at the solid waste concerns, and the budget concerns and everything else that has to be handled on a time basis. I would ask first that we hear from our Town Attorney relative to our landfill situation concerning the hauling of the solid waste from the transfer station to the burn plant. This has caused us a good deal of work the last couple of days a good deal of frustration and maybe Paul will tell us where he feels we are at now and we will discuss that for a few minutes, we will get rid of that and we have a guest to make a presentation and a couple of other little things. Paul will you tell us where you are at. Attorney Paul Dusek-As the Board knows yesterday you adopted a resolution authorizing a bid for services of hauling to the landfill. All those documents and everything were put together by myself the night before and as we went through it we found some problems with it obviously here at the board meeting. Since that time I have to tell you I also found other concerns that I was not aware of or that I thought were resolved as I indicated to you yesterday, in terms of compactors and ownership rights and this other stuff. This is an issue that has to be resolved, because it is and because there are questions concerning who did what and who owns what over there. I feel it is better at this point to pull the advertisement for bid for a short time until we can get this sorted out and then go to bid ultimately maybe with a slightly different package. Maybe including compactors or not that is one of the things that should be considered by the board when we can look at this thing a little bit carefully then what has been done. Councilman Montesi-Are you saying that the question is the ownership of the compactors that are presently on site? Attorney Dusek -Yes. Actually I think I will go further in saying there is a question, it would appear that we do not own them. Councilman Monahan-Are you talking about that part that is in the ground the concrete, the mechanism? Mr. Coughlin-That is correct. Supervisor Borgos-Not the concrete but the mechanism that is in there. Councilman Monahan-Not the box itself but the mechanism that works it. Mr. Coughlin-The compactor that sets underneath that the box hooks too. Attorney Dusek-In addition to this I have been doing legal research on the whole relationship in terms of how this relationship works under the law. I am finding discrepancies if you will at this point which I am not able to fully 100% clear up but in terms of leasing vs contracting vs sale, purchase I just do not feel comfortable moving ahead at this point until I clear up the legal issues until I clear up the ownership. Councilman Potenza-I do not have a problem with pulling the bid, my only concern is that I know we are under the gun. I do not know how the legalities stand if indeed we go out to bid and we do not get out bids or make the decision on the bid in a timely fashion. There is nothing we can do about it. Attorney Dusek-My feeling is, is that you have a couple of options. First of all I have found authority which would indicated that we could enter into short term leases to get by our initial problem in terms of getting the stuff to the landfill. Councilman Montesi-Let me ask just one question though, we have been paying a firm montWy to handle this operation. Now, the only thing that is going to differ in what we have been doing, instead of taking that dumpster and bring it to our landfill and dumping it, he is going to take that and bring it to the burn plant and dump it. Why can't we continue that relationship until we get this sorted? Attorney Dusek-That is what I am recommending to you. Councilman Montesi-Why do we have to close, we are closing the landfill Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday because of this? Supervisor Borgos-The proposal to close the landfill Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday so we can get the new system in place, we get some stickers, so we can see if we have to build any other gates so people cannot by-pass the gate house, until we get things organized. We have to set cash registers of some sort, we have a lot of those little mechanical things to do. Councilman Montesi-But it isn't related to this I mean, we can continue Supervisor Borgos- That was part of it, was because we weren't going to award the bid until Tuesday or Wednesday, but I still feel we need the time. Attorney Dusek-If the Board were to go with this with a suggestion toward developing a temporary lease arrangement, lease equipment, fixtures, manpower etc. Councilman Montesi-Why do we have to do anything, why do we have to make a temporary lease, just continue the way we are going. Councilman Potenza-Why can't we continue with the contract we got. Councilman Montesi -We do not have a contract, right? Attorney Dusek-I do not know what you have, you have a contract whether it is in writing or what, in what forms? Councilman Montesi-So why do we need to change? Attorney Dusek-Because it is different, it is now going to a different location. Councilman Montesi-Oh, how much does he want to do that on a temporary basis? Attorney Dusek-I do not know. Supervisor Borgos-I would like authority to sit down and negotiate on a temporary basis in a form acceptable to the Attorney to get us through a five or six week period, whatever it takes to get our bids out and do them the way we would like to. We need several more days to put the whole package together. Attorney Dusek-I think what we need is time to study it further so that we put together a proper base package that you make elections in terms of, because I found out too, compactors are very, very expensive. Councilman Montesi-One other question, does all of the other towns have compactors or do they have dumpster boxes? Attorney Dusek-They have compactors. Supervisor Borgos- They have bought or are buying compactors. Councilman Montesi-What have they done, why can't we learn from what they are doing? Attorney Dusek-That is where I have picked up some information, today, I spoke with Dan Kane, and Dan tells me the other towns have been buying their own compactors and have, actually are underway in terms of installing them. Some of them already have them installed and then of course they are going with the County for their hauling. But, the, no matter who hauls there seems to be a considered advantage toward owning your own compactor. Mr. Coughlin-Yes. Councilman Montesi-So, lets assume we do not own the compactor that is there and we do not want to buy the used one, he has to get it out of there? Attorney Dusek-Sure, it is his. Councilman Montesi-That is a major problem for him, that is imbedded in concrete? Mr. Coughlin- No, it is bolted down to the concrete. Councilman Montesi-Oh, it is. Mr. Coughlin-It could be pulled out, but you would have to lift up the hoppers ... Councilman Montesi-So, at that point so we have to look at, we do have some time, we got to look at do we want to buy that one or what is the price of that one. Supervisor Borgos- W e have been trying to do all this in two days and we just, physically cannot do that and finish the budget and .. Mr. Coughlin-I thought you do that last winter or last spring sometime you negotiated. Attorney Dusek - Well we thought we did but we didn't. Councilman Monahan-Paul, you may have to go way back to the County records because some of that stuff was put in when the County was running the landfill. I will tell you the records are very scampi on some of that stuff...I may have some stuff that you need how much time do you have. Mr. Coughlin-I am familiar with all that Betty, it is not necessary, I know what we own... Councilman Montesi-Steve, if you leave everything alone and we say to you as a Town Board, authorize you to talk to North American Recycling for a, you tell us, a four week period, five week period, you need to negotiate with him and say everything is going to be in place, except that now you have to go a little bit farther what is the rate going to be? Instead of paying $3400. a month... Councilman Potenza-They will pull from Luzerne over to the burn plant and then they will pull from Ridge Road to the burn plant. Councilman Montesi-They are going from Luzerne to the Landfill right now... Supervisor Borgos-Either a lump sum fee if they are willing to do that, because really nobody knows what the lump is or so much per unit. If I could have your authorization to do it with a limit of five or six weeks whatever feels comfortable. Attorney Dusek-I would propose, just so we don't run into a problem I would like to get you into, lets see where are we at now, we are at the end of October, six weeks would put you at the end of December, middle of December, I am just thinking, if you want to buy I want to give everybody time enough. First of all you are going to have to decide whether you want new, used whatever, if you are going to buy then you are going to what to give everybody time enough to get them installed, that is going to take time, they are going to have to order them from manufacturers. Mr. Coughlin-Yes, but it would be a hornets nest if you did that you are better off with the machines that are there. Attorney Dusek-What I am saying though is whatever the Board does we want to give them enough time, you may want to go considering a leasing arrangement, equipment, trucks everything, just for even as much as two months three months, so we can get some other package put together, as soon as you are done with the budgets what I would propose is that we then sit down and go through this whole thing. Councilman Montesi-I am not 100% sure you want to tie all of that together. The only thing that is going to change from what we are doing presently, is that we are asking him to go farther away. That is the only thing that is changing, whether we have a contract with North American or not all we are saying is continue to do what you are doing, only what is the difference between where you are going now and where you have to go and give us that number for five weeks. Supervisor Borgos- The difference of what's happen now is that contrary to prior years there have been other haulers that have expressed an interest in this work, there has never to my knowledge been another hauler ever... Councilman Montesi-So, for the five week period that is all we need to say to Steve is get that number, now, whether you want to lease trucks, rent trucks, buy trucks, buy a compactor, that is part of this contract that we... Attorney Dusek-No, what I am saying is what you are essentially doing, if we continue the relationship is establish a leasing arrangement of his, of the way everything is currently being operated that's, I am saying to you I guess, what I see the current relationship is closer to that of a lease. What we are doing is continuing that type of a leasing arrangement because it is providing the trucks the manpower and the hopper. What I am thinking that is once. Councilman Montesi - I just wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to finesse a contact that says that when he has been doing that and all you want to do is just finesse the part that says do what you are doing and take the stuff to the burn plant. Don't waste too much time to finesse that lease agreement, because it is a dead issue after five weeks. Attorney Dusek-Keep it as simple as possible but what I am thinking is then you can sit back and decide look at the cost figures do you want to buy do you want to continue to lease, what do you want to do in terms of a compactor what do you want to do in terms of the trucking it is going to give us time to go through that. The other thing it will do is give us more time to determine what length of time is a proper lease period. If you notice even the one we did the other day because I felt we were even under the gun then I made it for a very short period I just do not feel comfortable with that. Councilman Montesi-Does he feel that he owns the equipment? Attorney Dusek-Yes. Mr. Coughlin-Just the compactors, it is no big deal. Supervisor Borgos- The motor on a refrigerator you don't have it no big deal, but it doesn't work, the same thing, no steering wheels in the car. Attorney Dusek -So, sorry to spring this on you but I just feel very uncomfortable marching ahead blindly without getting into this thing a little bit more... Councilman Potenza-So, what you are asking for is a resolution to withdraw Attorney Dusek-The previous resolution authorizing the bid. RESOLUTION TO WITHDRAW BID FOR HAULING WASTE MATERIALS RESOLUTION NO. 574, 1991, INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Marilyn Potenza WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan: Resolution to withdraw previous resolution authorizing the bid. Duly adopted this 30th day of October, 1991, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos NOES: None ABSENT: Mr. Kurosaka Supervisor Borgos-Now, do we need a resolution authorizing me or do I just go ahead and meet with them and get back to the board hopefully even tomorrow with a proposed lease term? Councilman Potenza-I do not think that we have an option. Councilman Monahan-I think Steve you have got the authority to go out and talk with people, I do not see why we have to, I mean you cannot sign a contract until we give you that authority. Supervisor Borgos-I will try to come back to you tomorrow and see how things go tonight I will try and work on it. Attorney Dusek -You have more time until, you have at least until the end of the week, to get this thing. Councilman Potenza-That is only two days. Paul that is two days. Councilman Montesi-It would be nice to tie it down because what is going to happen, there is still some feeling I am not 100% sure that Jim cannot get things done so we do not have to close Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, I am a little concerned, I am not even running for office, but I am a little concerned about closing the landfill the week before election or election week for three days. It does not sound like a real good thing to do. Supervisor Borgos-I am not concerned, and I will tell you why, first of all the people who have haulers will see no change whatever. They are still going to go, haulers will go direct to the burn plant. If we stay open on Sunday, we are going to have lower rates we should see every piece of garbage that anybody got, empty out everything, Saturday and Sunday would be nothing. Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday there shouldn't be anything plus our buildings are not going to be ready. Mr. Coughlin-The building on Ridge Road Steve, is ready right now, they finished and they are heading for Luzerne Road tomorrow morning. Supervisor Borgos- Y ou are close, we do not have the system in place, you do not have stickers, I am going to push for stickers, you do not have cash registers for the stuff we do not have stickers for. Mr. Coughlin-They are in stock. Supervisor Borgos-But, still, we do not have them yet and I saying. Mr. Coughlin-We can get them tomorrow. Supervisor Borgos-I am saying in order to get it going I am afraid we do not have the time. I would like to be thinking in terms of closing if we have to Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. The radio said we were going to be I have not said that, I said there is a probability, I do not want to rush into this and not be ready to take people. Councilman Monahan-You have got to be open for the commercial haulers Supervisor Borgos- The commercial haulers go to the burn plant Councilman Monahan-The recycling, Steve. Supervisor Borgos-Recycling can be wide open, no problem, we can open that the non-burnables we can be open for that, we just cannot be open to take the stuff that has to be burned. Councilman Monahan-I am not so sure about that, I think we hear from Jim as the Department head to know what he can handle. Supervisor Borgos-Betty, we do not have an agreement with the City yet as far as the rates, we have not met with the Solid Waste Committee, we have got to do that. We got to pass some resolutions and some legislations to set the rates. We are in that kind of a bind. Mr. Coughlin-I know that I can have that ready for Monday to be going up there. Councilman Montesi-Ok, well this is our 5 o'clock discussion I guess. Supervisor Borgos- Yes, that is going to be on the landfill. I will try to work on an arrangement for the next several weeks by tomorrow maybe Paul will have a better idea what it is going to take time wise. Attorney Dusek-I am continuously working on this needless to say to try and get this thing wrapped up. I just think that we were moving so fast with the bids next week I just, that is why I had to come in today and talk with you, and I talked to Steve, this is not coming together... Supervisor Borgos- This would give everybody a better chance to bid and we should get a better price. I hope. Councilman Monahan-Are the people concerned who might be bidding aware of the fact that this package is being put together so that they are prepared to move quickly when the time comes? Attorney Dusek-Darleen already made some calls but no bid specs were released. Councilman Monahan-I am talking about when we get ready to do it because if we are still going to move forward very quickly they need to... Town Clerk Dougher-They know they have a very short time period to do this. Attorney Dusek -Well, in the end, this is the beauty of what we are tying to set up, hopefully it will give all bidders a longer duration first of all to get their bids in so it is a much fairer process the second thing is what we are trying to do is that we will have a longer term presumably for the contract itself, but once again to give everybody a better advantage. That is what I am trying to get set up, the most important thing is, is that the bids are done fairly so that nobody can complain in the end and that is why right now if we just jump the gun and do them next week we could get arguments that they are not fair, that basically what's Councilman Monahan-You may have a better process too once we find out how things are really working. Once that burn plant starts to burn some garbage and we see what is going on and stuff we may better be able to evaluate what needs to go into the bids and what kind of precautions and etc. Like yesterday we figured we had to provide for a shut down and that type of stuff, another month or so I do not know how long you intend to take to get the bids together we may see how that burn plant is performing. Attorney Dusek-The one good thing is that we do have the work that is done to date is not going to go to waste because we do have a good set of documents to start from and then it is just a matter of adding to that, everything that we are learning in the process, and believe me over the past couple of days I have learned a lot more than I knew when I started this process. Supervisor Borgos-Next we look at crematorium operations, we will learn details of everything. Attorney Dusek - I know quite a bit about that... Supervisor Borgos-I know. Councilman Monahan-Maybe, we could just put that next to the burn plant and work them both at the same time. Supervisor Borgos-Sure. Get both of them going at the same time. Ok, thank you very much, I think that is all we need from you for the moment. Next on our agenda, we have invited Ted Bigelow. Ted Bigelow is the Director of Homefront, the board was concerned with some of what Homefront does or does not offer and wanted a presentation from Ted before we finalize this preliminary budget, I have invited Ted to be here. Maybe, Ted you are the Director of Homefront and would you tell us what kind of a proposal you would like to see the Town of Queensbury enter into and essentially what you had mentioned to me some time ago, what you had been looking for and what I slashed you to. Mr. Ted Bigelow-First of all let me just give you a real brief history of Homefront, we started a little bit over a year and a half ago I guess it was, Carol Pulver was the Director. It was put together primarily based on a lot of influential people in town that saw that there was a need and they got together and developed a charter incorporated as a non profit called Homefront Dev. Corp. our mission statement in short is to provide affordable housing for low and moderate income families. That is through various means, you have all seen our first project is an affordable housing grant, through the affordable housing corporation which is here in Queensbury which is going to be 42 homes out on the Corinth Road. We are going to be bring $750,000 basically to help write down the mortgages to make it more affordable to moderate income families, I will say that is not a low income project, that is geared toward moderate income families. Councilman Montesi-Which means. Mr. Bigelow-We are looking at incomes of around 26-32 thousand in that range. Councilman Montesi-Family income. Mr. Bigelow-Yea. Because the houses are going to run $77 to 82 thousand dollars and there has been some innovations in the houses to bring the houses down but the grant is used primarily to buy down the mortgage so that you are looking at mortgages in the range of $55-60 thousand. Councilman Montesi -...or down payment. Mr. Bigelow-That is another cost, and naturally write the mortgage down and if the people are there and it is on a graduated scale the people live there over the years part of that grant is forgiven, if they are there for up to fifteen years the entire grant is forgiven. The houses are designed with an innovated heating system that you may have heard about the loop system.. . geothermal heat source, it has got the valent roof and some of them are expandable and we are hoping that people can raise their families there and their housing can grow with them. Councilman Monahan-Has that heat system been approved in this area? Councilman Montesi-I have got it in my house Betty. Councilman Monahan-You have got it. Mr. Bigelow-Oh yes, it sure is, all it is, is basically a heat pump system but the medium that you are using is well water instead of air. Councilman Montesi-Oh, it is well water, I have a closed loop system. Councilman Monahan-I know some people that have had trouble with a heat pump and that is why I asked this. Mr. Bigelow-You have the loop out in the yard, this is going to be with a well. A well that is going to service all homes and will have a central loop. Councilman Monahan-How much does your, cost a month to run, because I know somebody who is paying a God awful price. Councilman Montesi-Sixty Dollars a month to heat or air condition. Mr. Bigelow-If it is a heat pump system, where it is air to air medium heat pumps are no savings in this area, because once you get down to about 20 degrees the heat pumps loose their efficiency and then basically your backup is reinforced electric so regular heat pump system aren't the bargain they thought they were in the beginning. Councilman Montesi-The only reason that we went with the ...type close loop is the, when you pull well water up if you do not have a softener on the well you are running, you could run a million gallons of water through the thing and corrode all the pipes, so your... Mr. Bigelow-This will have a softener on it, the innovative part of it, is that you are talking one possibly two wells instead of sinking forty two wells so there is a tremendous cost savings. That is our first project and that is really, one of the primary reasons that we are here talking to you folks. We have targeted other areas to work in where we are at right now is, we are very, very low on money, we have no staff, I work part time and I, basically I am the director but I work pretty much on a sub- contractor basis right now. I bill them for only time that I work and we do not even have a secretary at this point. What we are hoping to do is finish our paper work on this grant and I do not want to say it is cast in stone, we have gotten it, but now we have to perform all the paper work and we are hoping to finish that up in the next three or four weeks and then we hope to take the winter to stabilize the organization. We have to get funds from several people if we are going to be viable and the town is one of them. Councilman Montesi-One of the concerns that I have is that you have a Sevenhundred and fifty thousand dollar grant and in order to give that grant to the people that qualify there is a process of selection Mr. Bigelow-Yes there is. Councilman Montesi-People make application to Homefront I presume and Mr. Bigelow-We have received approximately Councilman Montesi-Who processes that paperwork? Mr. Bigelow-Homefront and the developer, we, you see the homes are going to be in Homefront's name we are working with the developer but the homes are in, the land will be transferred to Homefronts and the houses are in Homefronts name when they are sold, we are selling the house. We have to do all the documentation as far as the income...and all the verifications. Councilman Montesi-What if the houses do not sell? Who owns them then? Do you buy them from the developer? Mr. Bigelow-Technically what happens is it will not be done on spec. we have over one hundred and twentyfive applications right now, we have more than enough people qualified in fact we are in a lottery system. So it isn't like any of these are spec houses they will be all in place the mortgages will be in place, so it is a matter of building the homes and just selling them. There isn't any of these that will be done on spec. As far as us owning them technically they are turned over to us. Councilman Potenza-It has to be in Homefront's name because it has to be a not for profit organization in order for the grant to be issued and the benefits... Councilman Montesi-So, the developer gets his money up front or gets it when it is built. Mr. Bigelow-He does not get it until it is sold. Our grant, is a little unique in that no grant funds are drawn down during construction, the developer and contractor has to provide all of his own construction financing. The funds from the State are only drawn at the time of sale, when they are sold they are drawn down to us, and then we issue the check back out to the bank. Councilman Montesi-So, who does the work of the one hundred and twenty five applicants approving them is that your job? Mr. Bigelow-That is Homefront's job. To be upfront with you Adams and Rich has assisted greatly, Carol and Mary Adams Rich were doing that together and Mary Adams, basically because of the lack of staff on Homefront's part had done a lot of that, a lot of that has been done. What Homefront stands to get out of that grant is as each house sells they will get Five hundred Dollars per house and technically that is to go toward the marketing of it. Now, we have already done the marketing, we have already got all the people in and we have them pre-qualified. Councilman Montesi-So you have Twenty thousand dollars worth... Mr. Bigelow-When the houses are all sold we will have Twenty thousand dollars out of that grant that is all we get out of it. We will use that to help us carry on with our mission. In the beginning what we had hoped we did have some support from the banks they are still giving us some small contributions a thousand here and a thousand there. We are into our credit line now at the bank just to sustain ourselves. Last year, originally Warren County had given us a Fifty thousand dollar commitment and they came through with Twentyfive thousand dollars of that. Last fall when they started hacking up the budget and chopping it up they pulled Twentyfive thousand dollars for this year which hurt substantially, because they said they did not have it. Now, we are negotiating with the County again and also communicating with Washington County and we have targeted also projects for Bolton and Lake Luzerne that will be approached at some point. Basically what I am hoping to do in Queensbury, number one continue on with this project to make it really for next year, construction will begin next spring, number one, and number two I would like to work with the Town in assisting them if they want to develop for lack of a better word right now affordable housing zone, either through a floating zone, an overlay system working with your planning office to target areas within the town that are best suited toward affordable housing where we could do some projects and not run into a lot of road blocks. I wasn't involved at the time but I am sure most of you remember what everyone had to go through in getting this project out here on Corinth Road. Councilman Montesi-We are working toward that end I am not sure we ought to pay you to help us do ... Mr. Bigelow-I know you are doing that right now, but I think we could provide some valuable assistance in that, working with Lee. I understand today from a discussion that we are all working in that direction. We would also propose that we assist the town in going after other programs and grants, actually writing grants, I do not think that you do that now. Councilman Monahan-Lee has those capabilities, if we gave her time enough to do it, which might be much cheaper then doing it through your organization, she has done this in the past... Councilman Montesi-You are up in the air, you have a project that is ongoing that you are out of money. I personally as one member of the board wanted to talk to you because I have a hard time taking taxpayers dollars and giving it to charities in general. You are one of five or six and once we start this and I am vitally aware of it. When I first started on the board, we did nothing and we did Big Brothers and then we did Volunteer and then we did Literacy and it grows, there is no reason why United Way shouldn't walk in the door and give us pitch all of the things that they do well in our community and we should not fund them. Once we start spending taxpayers dollars on non profit charitable organizations... Mr. Bigelow-I cannot address how you handle the other contribution requests all I can tell you is the Town set affordable housing as a priority if they set it as a priority they should be willing to invest in it. It would be one thing if we were a real viable organization and we were going to add fortytwo affordable homes to your tax rolls here, we are in kind of desperate straights too, we need the money. Councilman Montesi-I understand that and my priority of setting my goal with affordable housing was to establish a zone, which we haven't done and to allow the business community, I mean you know, I think that, maybe I have the wrong name, but I think Queen Victory's Grant selling townhouses or those houses at Sixtynine, Seventynine, Eightynine Thousand dollars without all of the necessary Homefront funding and grants and everything was American ingenuity and business in action, they had a great idea they sold three hundred houses affordable homes in the area. I see small contractors in Glens Falls, buying small lots 60x100 and building capecod houses for Seventy thousand, I think that is innovated and they are doing their thing, and providing a service. We probably have not done the job as a Town Board by making lots too big by not making it affordable in terms of what you are saying. There are some things that we have to do. Mr. Bigelow-The programs that Homefront wants to reach into, or get into, are not the areas that are being done right now, Queen Victoria Grant, great, doing the small houses for Seventy thousand are great but ...people have to have the down payment and they have to have the income to support those mortgages. The affordable housing grant that we have right now, that is a couple of notches lower than the people that are buying that particular type of housing. What we are hoping to do is develop programs where we can get down even lower. Now, you get to a certain point and I do not care how much you do, you may not provide, you may not be able to provide housing that people own because they just do not have sufficient income. But, that is where you look at rental housing. There is a need for affordable rental housing in the area too. Queensbury is not eligible for the Farmer Home 5-15 program in most of its areas, there are in certain portions of it would like to look possibly working on one of those in Queensbury, in the right area. The National Affordable Housing act was just put through the legislature, not too long ago and they are developing new programs. Looking to act as an avenue for researching that for all the communities in presenting different options to them. If you have got somebody who is looking at all these different grants and different ways of doing business fine, but I do not think that the Town is doing that right now, and that is not to say, that they can't do it with existing staff. What we are saying is we would like to be able to assist in that. You have cut back I think one in your planning office already now, I know activity has slowed down a little bit but you have cut back by one person already and now you are possibly looking at throwing a bunch more stuff on ... Councilman Montesi - I think I might, again as one member of the board, might better serve my taxpayers in my town by if I said to you Ted, if two or three very specific grants that you know exists that you want to develop for this town give me a number and I will contract with Homefront to do something that is very specific and keyed into I am concerned about giving a fifteen or twenty five or the original asked was twenty five thousand, Steve cut it to fifteen that is a lot of money. Where do I go with it? Next year it might be if! thought it was a good idea this year then why isn't twentyfive a good idea? I would feel more comfortable that if I was under contract with Homefront to say very specifically we are going after this grant and this is what it is going to take in hours to do this. I do not know if you can do that? Mr. Bigelow-If that is the approach you would take I would say very specifically to make the affordable housing grant that we have been awarded a reality. All we have is a letter right now that says if we do all these things we get that grant. I am telling you where we are at right now is we will not be here to do all those things unless we can survive administratively. So, if you are looking for specifics that is a specific grant it is real and it is here, but, we have to be able to survive to do it. We have to have at least a year fifteen thousand is a lot of money there is no doubt about that, one slice of the pie that we need in order to survive but that would get us through to the start of the grant so the funds would flow through that from the grant the twenty thousand that we could get out of that. Councilman Montesi-Once you give the grant like you were saying fifteen years is forgotten Mr. Bigelow-We have to monitor that annually Councilman Montesi-But, what if you're not around in two years? What if the next town board says are you crazy we are not going to give you any more money you got through that..how do you survive? How do you perpetuate yourself? Mr. Bigelow-It is like any business or any non profit you do not know from year to year. Councilman Montesi -You are opening the door here that says.. Mr. Bigelow-I will tell you the town will not have any liability in that. Councilman Montesi-No, but the request will keep coming back so, Mr. Bigelow-Ron, do you know if you are going to survive next year business wise I do not... Councilman Montesi-What I am saying is, it is going to be an on going it is not... Councilman Monahan-He is not asking for taxpayers money to run his business. Mr. Bigelow-I cannot tell you that we are going to be around in the next fifteen years, no I can't, but I do not think there is any director any non profit would say that either. Councilman Montesi-So what would happen to the administration of that? Mr. Bigelow-It would go back to the State...they would get another non profit to do it, the other real active one, there are two of them, Real Housing Coalition to fall back to them, they are State wide non profit, they do more affordable housing grants than just about anybody. The general administration of it ifhomefront is not around it would fall back technically to the State. Councilman Montesi-I have played the devils advocate long enough. Mr. Bigelow-When non profits first started into the housing business a few years ago, DHCR, the Division of Housing and Community Renewal was giving Fifty thousand dollars a year grants, flat out grants administrative grants the program was set up so after they give it to them for five years, I take it back six years, I think it was three hundred thousand in grant funds so that hopefully at the end of six years they could sustain themselves. They would have enough projects enough cash flow to cover themselves. Councilman Montesi-What did it cost last year to run Homefront what was the total dollars necessary to run it, now I realize that you had full time director and I think that salary was public, to go through from start to finish to get that grant, did you spend fifty thousand, sixty thousand. Mr. Bigelow-The budget for this year the budget that was done in July, before I came on board, is Sixty thousand for the year. Councilman Monahan-When you say year what year are you talking about? Calendar? Mr. Bigelow-The fiscal year starts in September, September to September. Councilman Monahan-So you are talking September 91 to September 92 you have a Sixty thousand dollar budget. So what was your budget a year before that? Mr. Bigelow-The year before I cannot tell you what it was...I know that they spent I believe it was in the range of Fortyfive thousand for everything. I cannot tell you what the budget was though. The rent was substantially higher, they were paying, Councilman Montesi-They had the store front Mr. Bigelow-Downtown, now our rent now is $175.00 month we are over at the Samaritan Center. Basically, right now, the staff is myself as a part time person, since I have taken over I think I have charged them like, Eight hundred and ninethree dollars...through early September, so I only charge them an hourly rate when I am working I have been trying to keep to a minimum to get us through the winter until we can see whether or not we are going to have enough funds to survive. If we don't receive financial support from somewhere there won't be any grant on this, that is the reality of it. Councilman Monahan-What about the United Way will they support organizations like... Councilman Montesi-They gave them five thousand last year. Mr. Bigelow-They gave us five thousand...one time thing. I do not want to tell you that we wouldn't come back again and ask for funds, if we weren't doing some other programs here we might, but I do not look to have this be an annual thing. The approach that I have taken on this is I am going to try and build it so we can sustain ourselves just as a business would through cash flow projects that we do. The key is because we do not have administrative funds to get started we are trying to wing it until we get a couple of projects under our belt. Councilman Potenza-It is a difficult scenario because we have all the hard work that has gone into approving this affordable housing area and the grant that was written and we have one hundred and twenty five qualified families and out of that forty of those families mayor may not get a home and I am assuming that your request for administrative work to process these applications? Mr. Bigelow-I do not want to tell you that specifically for those applications for the general administration of Homefront to make sure we are around in order to get the grant underway and get construction. The developer is ready to go now, but we made an agreement that we would wait until spring for two reasons, number one not all the paper work is done he has got to finish some paper work and we do to but he has all of his prices the financing is all in place and we have all these qualified families which we are going... Councilman Potenza-I just have a hard time with this grouping administrative funds, I mean, is that to keep the phones going, what ... Mr. Bigelow-That is part of it. Supervisor Borgos-Are you saying or can you assure us for our fifteen thousand dollars, we are buying the service to the residents of Queensbury that you could provide those services for a year our funds combined with everybody else's funds would enable us any residents of Queensbury has a question about affordable housing they can call you and you can help out. Mr. Bigelow-Yes. Supervisor Borgos- That would go for a whole year, you will not close up on six months. Mr. Bigelow-No-That will go a whole year, I have all ready worked it out with our Board of Directors. Even if I have to, I would go without pay to help see it through. When I first got involved with Homefront they asked me to sit on their Directors Meetings to give them some ideas because they had lost their director and they were running into this problem of what they were going to do, I gave them a little bit of direction. They did actually put out some requests for resume's and they got only a couple back. Councilman Montesi-What if the dollar amount that we agree to give you and it happens to be fifteen that we are talking about, fifteen thousand, what if we said specifically it had to be ear marked or one thing, we got a seven hundred and fifty thousand dollar grant approved by the State of New York, its hanging in abeyance until administratively the paper work gets caught up and you can administer that. What if we said we understand your concept we like your idea of Homefront and all of that good stuff but the only justification that I could make in my mind, that I do not want to loose Seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars grant that can come to my community and help forty families, I want the money earmarked specifically so that this year whatever you do that fifteen thousand gets this job done. Supervisor Borgos-Nobody is saying we will get that plus. Councilman Monahan-Ron, I just want to interject you know that there is no guarantee that the forty two families that you are helping will be Queensbury families. Councilman Potenza-But they are still going to be Queensbury residents...the tax dollars will be here. Councilman Monahan-But, Lynn if you go into that very deeply every house cost more services than it brings in, in taxes. Councilman Montesi-Let me ask you this Ted, you have looked at twenty five applicants are they local. Mr. Bigelow-The vast majority are local, when I say local I mean Queensbury. Councilman Montesi -You mean specifically Queensbury? Mr. Bigelow-The vast majority of them, that is not to say that there isn't some from Hudson Falls, or Glens Falls or So. Glens Falls. Councilman Montesi-That is an interesting, that is a good Councilman Monahan-Have all these one hundred and twenty five been qualified? Mr. Bigelow-We have qualified I would say about one hundred and ten to one hundred and fourteen of them, now that was the last time we counted them. There are probably many more then one hundred and twenty five. Councilman Montesi-When you say qualified, they qualified for the grant based on income level this family.. Mr. Bigelow-We have run the credit checks on them and it looks good, they do not have a mortgage yet obviously. Councilman Monahan-No, we are talking about qualified to participate in the program. Mr. Bigelow-They get qualified income wise we run a credit check on them Councilman Montesi-So, if you called somebody and said you are in your name came up in the lottery and everything else and now what you need to do is get a mortgage. Mr. Bigelow-Any that is what is going to happen to everybody who is qualified and then the name is going to go into a hat and it is going to be picked out, that is the only fair way to do it. Councilman Montesi-What if they cannot get the mortgage then? Councilman Potenza-Then their name will not go into the hat. Councilman Monahan-If you asked them to qualify for a mortgage before their name goes into a hat I understand and maybe I am wrong Lynn, you know more about this than I do, but from talking to some young people once you ask a bank to investigate you for a mortgage you have to come up with some money right then and there. Councilman Potenza-Normally, on the open market that is true, this maybe one ofthose...the banks are going to waive... Mr. Bigelow-We have worked with Key Bank and State wide, they are doing all the preliminary analysis and I do not want to say that they are giving a mortgage commitment they are Councilman Potenza-They are saying you can qualify... Mr. Bigelow-You can go in the hat, we checked you credit, your income level is sufficient we would like to do business with you if you get one of these houses. Councilman Potenza-You and I can go in now, and apply for a mortgage just on a scenario but if you literally apply for that mortgage at that time then it is going to cost you a point or an application fee... Councilman Monahan-Yea, because I know like some people were thinking about going shopping two or three different banks they were told you are going to come up with the money in front.. Councilman Montesi-Not to be overly optimistic then would fifteen thousand dollars in your opinion buy us the completion of this contract. If they are going to start breaking ground this spring and there are going to be people moving in next fall. Mr. Bigelow-In my estimation it would, yes. If we get the grant so it is in place the developer will not do it obviously unless he has the grant in place, he plans in starting early in the spring and ... Councilman Potenza-What is the overall amount Ted, that you are looking for, I know what you are looking for in the Town of Queensbury, are you striving to get? Mr. Bigelow-I am striving to get sixty thousand I do not know that we will get there in the first year. The twenty five that we initially requested from you folks was obviously to replace the twenty five thousand that Warren County did not give to us. Supervisor Borgos- What happened is the other towns in the County I believe without exception, maybe the Town of Bolton does not qualify, qualifies for HUD program monies, they got another four hundred and some thousand dollars a few weeks ago, they have County people who make the applications get the money, Queensbury does not qualify because our overall income is too high so we get left out of everything. The other towns are not too concerned because they are getting their share. We are a little umque. Mr. Bigelow-The County actually in this last round got a million two, I had a meeting with Pat Tatich, yesterday, they had from one of their previous grants revolving loan fund where they have some money sitting there from 1984 grant, Pat is prepared to make a recommendation to the Board and this would not have anything to do with their budget that all or a portion of that money, which would, I think it is thirty three thousand be given to Homefront to work with the County Planning Office and all the communities within Warren County. That was an idea that we came up with yesterday and we are working on that right now with the County. Whether or not that is going to happen I do not know, we have all these different sources that we are going to trying to get them to make a decision ... what is that? Councilman Montesi-I wish you good luck. Mr. Bigelow-We are also working with the County in their general budget but I don't, we have really been getting the run around on that one and not having much luck. So, I do not foresee anything coming this year, we are still working hard at it. Councilman Montesi -Well obviously this has got to come up to a public hearing, the whole budget, and just so you know, as one member I would feel, I am apprehensive about doing this funding but if I did it I would certainly want you to understand and Homefront I would want the money specifically earmarked for your time and effort to achieve on this grant. Mr. Bigelow-I will tell you in the first year the grant that we are working on is that one. I have got to get that one out of the ground. Supervisor Borgos-We would enter into a regular contract for services no donation, we would have a contract for services specifically indicating this would have to be covered plus as much other stuff. Councilman Montesi-The other stuff I do not really want you to delute the fifteen thousand to get that job done, the other stuff is great it is a nice idea and we do have a Planning Dept. the County has a Planning Dept. I would certainly like to have your input when this Board or the next sitting Board finally decides to look for a zone for affordable housing in town. That is important too, but I do not want to dilute your thinking that if it is going to take fifteen thousand dollars out of your consulting effort to get seventy hundred and fifty thousand dollars on its way to our community. Mr. Bigelow-I will tell you that out of our annual budget at least fifteen thousand would go toward the administration of that grant easily. But, that is where we ended up the last time on numbers. Councilman Potenza-It would be a contractual agreement. Mr. Bigelow-Yes Councilman Monahan-Ok Ted. Now I will give you my thoughts and I will echo what Ron says and I am going to add some more stuff to it. I think frankly that this is a very expensive program for the taxpayers. I am talking about the taxpayers no matter if it is state or what. You have got seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars going in for this grant, coming out of the taxpayer you now have got more administration fees on top of that adds it up more and more. I look out there at another group like Habitat for Humanity who in the long run I think is going to accomplish a lot more. OK, so I think also that the units that you are putting on the market the cost of the housing is high I realize that you are making the down payment that somebody can afford I realize that, that is one of the only things you are really doing is what you are doing. Because the units as far as the units can be built as cheap if not cheaper by a regular developer, they do not have to do the things that you have to do because of the grant such as the archeological...like the archeological review and etc. Ok, in complying with all of the regulation that you had to for that grant it has been an expensive proposition. Ok. I am very interested in this program that is coming down that you were talking about and I have read something about it which will make lower down payments and hopefully make housing so some of these people can get into it irrespective of your program. You talk about working with our Planning Dept. on a floating zone, I say to you how come when we got a lot of lots out there that have already got the services to them what we call in fill lots is your organization not looking at infilllots instead of a whole area to put further housing in. It would seem to me to make a great deal of sense and I would also say that I prefer, irregardless of the fifteen thousand when you talk about are really supporting your organization working with our Planning Dept. we are going to fund you to do this working on affordable housing zone and working on some grants and stuff I think the Town of Queensbury would be far better served to put that money toward another Planner that we are down short two in that department that would do not only this work but additional work. Those are my thoughts and sediments. Mr. Bigelow-Let me see if I can address some of them. First of all your comment about the houses could be done cheaper as you put by a regular developer, well the person that is doing it is a regular developer, Councilman Monahan-I know but I am talking about. Mr. Bigelow-and it couldn't be done any less expensive by another developer. Councilman Monahan-I am going about, by the time you comply with the regulations that you have to, that a developer does not have to comply with like your archeological review etc. and so on and so forth. And also if that developer were putting these on in fill lots he is not having to pay for streets and town water and etc. so he can end up with a unit that costs less than what your units are costing. Mr. Bigelow-If you are doing strictly infill, on an existing lot in order to meet the requirements of this program they went after a large chunk and decided to subdivide it. Now, if you are talking about another developer, if you are on infilllots you could make that argument where we are at you cannot make that argument. The town imposed certain regulations out there they required that we have homeowners association, we have this green belt in order to make the lots smaller the town imposed the regulations or some of the regulations on this project that is making it more expensive. Councilman Monahan-I completly agree with you but that is why I said this is an expensive project to start with when you start subdividing raw land adds costs. Mr. Bigelow-I would say to you that with any program that the State or Federal Government provides you go with the rules of the game. We do not get to change their rules we just got to work with them. Councilman Monahan-That is exactly what I am saying, this is an expensive game that you are playing in, compared with other alternatives that could be done. Mr. Bigelow-It is expensive as far as the state is concerned but as far as the people that are going to live in them, the regular developer he goes out and builds a seventy thousand dollar house he has got to find a person who can afford a seventy thousand dollar house with no subsidy or here you are going to be people that are carrying fifty thousand dollar mortgages there incomes can be lower. Councilman Monahan-That is why I am saying this is an expensive program to the taxpayer because they are paying the twenty five thousand dollars they are paying your administration costs and so you know by the time this gets built up they are paying a lot. Mr. Bigelow-I will not disagree with you that it is an expensive program to the taxpayers of the State of New York it is, I will not disagree with you. Councilman Monahan-I am saying another developer not operating like you are, is probably going to be able to put that house up for maybe five to ten thousand dollars and we still got the catchall where the people are getting the down payment from. I realize that but I am just telling you some of the flaws that I see with this program. Mr. Bigelow-Except for the homeowners association, I do not see where a developer, I am in that business, will not be able to build them any cheaper... Councilman Monahan-Because a regular developer cannot subject to your restrictions you are operating on could. . . infilllots and things like that, they do not have to do some of the things that you are having to do. Mr. Bigelow-I don't want to say that we won't be doing some infill, Affordable Housing Corp. has a program for dealing with that and we hope to do that in some areas, when this grant was put together that was the approach that they decided to take. Because at that time the Town did not have any areas specifically designated for affordable housing they had to come back to the Town and ask for some concessIOns. Councilman Monahan-I am very conservative with taxpayers money, and I am looking at the cost effectiveness of your program... Mr. Bigelow-If you are looking at it from that way Betty I would state to you that if you could get forty two houses in your town that are occupied by moderate income families, and it cost you fifteen thousand dollars it is a danm good investment. If you do not think that is prudent I am not sure what you would call prudent. You are talking forty two new homes to be sold to low and moderate income families in the Town of Queensbury and you are looking at that investment being fifteen thousand dollars. Ms. Kathleen Kathe- Are you subsidizing those loans, what is Homefront doing for the applicant... say you have got someone with an income of around $30,000... Mr. Bigelow-The subsidy that they are receiving is that grant and it depends on their income as to exactly how much they get, it can be as high as twenty five thousand dollars. That twenty five thousand dollars comes from the State to Homefront and goes directly to the bank it does not go to the purchaser to write down the cost of their mortgage. So conceivably instead of having a seventy five thousand dollar mortgage they have a fifty thousand dollar mortgage therefore you can have lower income people affording that house. Councilman Monahan-I think it was brought out though in a meeting Ted, and you know there is no sense of arguing this point, but at a meeting that I was at the montWy payment was still going to be pretty high by the time you got insurance and taxes, utilities and all that kind of stuff, left a lot of us wondering in the audience with the percentage of take home pay that people have. The net pay the percentage that those payments relative to that house was going to take from their income by that I am talking about the mortgage the insurance the taxes the utilities they were going to pay there was a lot of questions in the audience, how many of these people could really afford this when it came right down to brass tacks to be able to keep that up. Mr. Bigelow-Anyone that buys a house, affordable you know that is a relative term. Councilman Monahan-I am not even using that term, I am just putting it in actual dollars and cents what the net income and I have done payrolls so I know what net is vs gross there is a heck of a lot of difference and you are I am assuming $26 to 32 thousand dollar income bracket you are looking at gross by the time you put that down to net you lowered that a lot to disposable income. When you put what your montWy payments are going to be for these houses even with the twenty five thousand dollars out of it, because a lot of it is going for down payment going for points it is going for this and it is going for that. The mortgage payment plus the other expenses that are compulsory when you own a house is going to be awfully tight for all these people. Mr. Bigelow-I can tell you it is going to be awfully tight but I do not know of anybody when they buy their first house so its tight, very tight. I would also tell you that a lot of people are going to have some of their own money to put down. If they had money to put down they are required to use that. There money comes first. Councilman Potenza - I do not know if it's correct, Ted, but I assume like purchasing any home once these people qualify for a mortgage they have to qualify under the criteria that they can afford the montWy mortgage. Mr. Bigelow-The banks are making the decision whether or not they are bankable we don't so if they can get their mortgage from the bank... Councilman Monahan-I am looking at the whole program, the gasp in the audience that day. Mr. Bigelow-Betty I will tell you that these people will be stretched. Councilman Potenza-But again, people have this concept about being low income, these houses are going to be sold to nurses and to school teachers and to ... Councilman Monahan-That does not matter Lynn Councilman Potenza-It does matter Councilman Monahan-Wait a minute when you take twenty thousand dollars and you pay social security and you pay federal and state you got at the most and you probably haven't got that, but I am going to say you have, you have a disposable income of twenty two thousand dollars at the most and by the time those mortgage payment which I think were something like five, six and seven hundred dollars a month before we add the taxes, insurance, the utilities these people... Councilman Potenza-Betty what do you think they are paying now, young families are paying now, it is not unusual for a young family to pay a thousand dollars a month in a Cottage Hill home, that is a very normal, believe me dear, that is not what I payor not what you pay and it seems like it is pie in the sky dreaming but I work with them every single day Betty and this is what these young people are paying. A thousand dollars a month, twelve hundred dollars a month to live in a three bedroom, may be living room, maybe not a dining room, kitchen, one car garage home, that's what it is. That is the cost of living and when everyone is screaming how bad the economy is wake up and smell the roses because these kids are lucky to have a roof over their head, the only other choice is to throw it away and rent. Rental income that we do not have around here. Mr. Bigelow-Let me just elaborate on that just one second, there are two important things here, number one the bank makes the decision whether or not they are bankable just as they would anybody that would apply for a mortgage. Number two these families that apply are applying because they want to, they made the decision that ok, the bank has told us what our payments are going to be we are paying that now we are willing to pay it so whether they are going to be stretched, of course they are... Councilman Potenza-You did it, I did it Betty, we got a part time job for a few hours a week and saved our dollars and put it toward our mortgage payment so that we could have a home we want the American Dream. Mr. Bigelow-The point that I was making to your earlier is that this project will not service low income people, because of what the things that you stated... Councilman Monahan-Forget the terminology and you get the ...as what, what part of their income is going to take and everything and that has been my concern with part of this program because the way it has been marketing a lot of people think that they can... Mr. Bigelow-...we have people that are more than qualified to handle the mortgages and that are willing to. Councilman Montesi-Ted, one other thing, when you talk about a team effort I was under the impression and you might just enlighten me to it that as you said a lot of the fluent people tried to put this thing together because they perceived a need in our community and at one point someone pressured me about getting involved and making this project work etc. I asked the attorneys are you going to take less for affordable housing concept in title insurance and also in closing costs is that a concept that you are going to buy in the team why should the town be the only one. Mr. Bigelow-The banks are biting the bullet on their closing fees and their, Mike O'Connors office is writing the title insurance some of that he is doing pro-bono a lot of the attorneys fees.. . Homefronts right now are being done pro-bono...the subdivision engineering initially that was used for the approvals here that was done by CT Male was done probono the regular developer would have to pay dearly for that, it was done at no cost. Councilman Monahan-Wasn't there a tickler on that, that once the whole thing was approved they get a certain amount, I am saying that, because that is the rumor in the community. Mr. Bigelow-No, Betty (tape turned) Mr. Bigelow-I do not have to address that because I do not know. Councilman Montesi -You are signing the checks. Mr. Coughlin-Ted can I ask a question? Mr. Bigelow-Yes Mr. Coughlin-If a person was eligible for the Homefront home and say the home is seventy five thousand and you gave twenty five thousand Mr. Bigelow-They are eligible for the maximum grant Mr. Coughlin-leave a fifty thousand dollar balance what is their obligations to you in regard to the twenty five thousand that you gave them. Mr. Bigelow-After the sliding scale is being developed now, if they stay in the house, say they sell after four years, after five years they have to pay back 100% of the grant Mr. Coughlin-If they sell Mr. Bigelow-After ten years, they have to give back I think it is a third and then up to fifteen years or I am sorry two thirds up to ten years and up to fifteen years it is a third after fifteen years it is forgiven. Councilman Montesi-Don't forget when they buy a seventy nine thousand dollar house they are getting for fifty thousand or what ever, so they legitimately have equity of twenty five thousand in that house the day they walk in there. Mr. Bigelow-Yes Supervisor Borgos-It either comes to Queensbury or goes to some other place in the State it is not like it would go back to the taxpayers pockets. That is the important part of this. Mr. Bigelow-That is the game that is in Town, that is why we went after that grant. That is one of the reason at lot of these people are bankable because of the hefty down payment that we are furnishing, the bank feels like we certainly have got good equity in this place in case they go belly up and even some of the closing costs are going to be included in that. Councilman Monahan-That is what I am saying, we are not really talking correctly when we say, the market price of the house is seventy five thousand dollars, twenty five thousand dollars is State grant, so we are saying a mortgage of fifty thousand dollars that is not really true because part of that twenty five thousand dollars has got to go for the closing cost and everything. Mr. Bigelow-The way we are setting it up we are saying that a portion, the grants monies can be a down payment and closing costs. Councilman Monahan-They could end up with a mortgage of fifty five thousand or so. Councilman Montesi-Well, if they do not have the closing costs? Mr. Bigelow-They have to have, we are setting up where they do have to have some money into this it is not like they are getting in for absolutely nothing. We have not established exactly what that level is. Councilman Monahan-I was going to say if these people were already paying high, high money out where are they ever accumulating that kind of money? Mr. Bigelow-That is the problem they have not been able to ... Councilman Montesi-I can tell you where they get eight hundred bucks, because they have to put a security of one month up for that condo. So, they get that back when they. Mr. Bigelow-The bottom line is if the Town creates a fifteen thousand, that fifteen thousand dollars is going to go toward this project in Queensbury. It will be a lot more than fifteen thousand, it will take all of that and more to get that grant off the ground and get it constructed and get the houses sold. Councilman Montesi-If! were to approve this it would be with that condition, I feel as one Board Member. Mr. Bigelow-I do not have a problem guaranteeing that... Supervisor Borgos-Anybody else? If not, thank you Ted for coming in. I appreciate your time. Next item of business, we have our landfill Superintendent who has come back to talk to us about the landfill... Mr. Naylor-I want to know how my hay is going? Councilman Monahan-Oh Mr. Naylor-Don't say oh, it better be delivered in the next few days or you are going to get stuffed with hay. Supervisor Borgos- Y ou do not have it yet? Mr. Naylor-No hay. Councilman Monahan-In half an hour if I can make a phone call maybe I can catch up with the guy. Mr. Naylor-I will yank the phone in here for you to make that call, I am waiting for you. Supervisor Borgos-We have our Landfill Superintendent here, the story goes on with what to do with the landfill, how to do it, how fast to do it and how much. Everybody I talk to seems to give me a different answer as to what is the average weight per bag and how many bags per car and how many everything. Jim had done some research that showed roughly a thousand bags would go into a forty cubic yard container compacted. County number was 1200 bags, so I think to be conservative I could live with a thousand hopefully there will be more than that. We looked at the cost that we had to recover, we know that whereas we were in approximately 40 thousand tons of material in to the landfill up until a couple of years ago that has dropped substantially our records now indicate about thirty thousand and this year it may even be less than thirty thousand tons. Now, the question is of that coming in number one how much is burnable at the trash plant, number two how much comes in compactors that which people bring in, in their cars. If more is coming in compacted than is coming in by cars then we are looking at something less than 50% of less than thirty thousand tons. So something less than 15,000 tons. If we anticipate that haulers are going to raise their fees next week to pay for the increased cost at the burn plant vs the landfill then we have to say how many people will decide to discontinue the haulers service because it is more per month than if they pay x number of dollars per bag and go to the transfer station. You bounce all this around and I have got a proposal that would say to be conservative we should look at handling fifteen thousand tons through the transfer stations with all the pluses and minuses, fifteen thousand tons. I would propose that we have a budget line for the trash plant...Adirondack Resource Recovery contractual basis that we are obligated to go only to this plant under county law so we can't go out to bid for the best trash money because there is only one. I would propose that we budget at $100.00 per ton even though the number is only $91.00 a ton, I would propose...this is for the trash plant. Councilman Montesi -We are going to budget but we are not going to pay him. Supervisor Borgos- The way the landfill account will work next year and it worked last year is that only the people that use solid waste services will pay for them it will come out zero for the general tax base. It has worked just fine for a couple of years the user fee and it works terrific. But if we budget conservatively that is to over estimate our expense and on the other hand under estimate the revenue we should be ok and I would budget at a hundred dollars a ton figuring that there maybe some extra costs, I would say that amounts to fifty thousand tons that is a million five hundred thousand dollars, in landfill expense. I would also be conservative to say that if we look at an average of ten tons per load that is roughly what a forty yard compactor comes out to. We are looking at fifteen hundred loads if we estimate roughly seventy five or eighty dollars a pull for hauling, eighty is a number we are looking at we would be looking at roughly one hundred thousand dollars, for the hauling, roughly. I think it will come out a little less than that, but if our final bid for the hauling is done on a per pull basis as in so much per year we are guaranteed to pay for what we use, no more. The hauler does not have to worry about skimping because he is being paid per load. We have to have a tight contract so that we don't pull part loads and pay for empty space being pulled we have to be very careful about that. Now, on the revenue side if we look at a dollar fifty a bag, I worked out a whole bunch of numbers here how many pounds per whatever. I even figured on the heavy side of twenty pounds a bag and we looked at about eighteen point something. COUNCILMAN MONTESI -Steve let me just back up for just one minute so I can get caught up. Fifteen thousands tons at one hundred dollars a ton is a million five, but it's going to go on a budget line as an expense? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It will show up as a proposed expense to ARRA contractual. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-But, underneath that we have a hundred and twenty thousand dollars. . . SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Hauling. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-So now we're at a million six hundred and twenty thousand dollars. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-A million six hundred and twenty thousand dollars. I didn't look at your figures today. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-We don't have all the expenses or are you just looking at revenue now. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I'mjust saying for this. Now, on top of that we have all the overhead we've got labor, insurance, we still have to run the other landfill. My proposal is to keep in all . . . numbers the way he had them in before all those other items keep those right in. Change ARRA to a million and a half, add in hauling for one hundred and twenty thousand. I would then show the revenue coming in at a dollar fifty a bag or equivalent. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-On the fifteen hundred tons, how many tons? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Fifteen thousand tons. COUNCILMAN MONTESI -You divide it by how many bags? SUPERVISOR BORGOS- Twenty pounds per bag gives us a hundred bags per ton. That gives us a thousand bags per load. At two dollars a bag. . . COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Wait a second. JIM COUGHLIN-How much Steve? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-A thousand bags per load. At two dollars per bag it gives us two thousand dollars a load. At fifteen hundred loads that generates three million dollars. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Good, sounds great. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Two million two hundred and fifty thousand dollars I would show as revenue to the landfill to help offset the million six twenty that we showed before. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-This is at two dollars you just said a dollar fifty before. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The way we've allocated before for landfill operations and for closure I would recommend a dollar fifty of the two dollars goes for landfill operation including the burn plant fifty cents would then go for closure. At the numbers we've calculated here we would raise two million two fifty to go toward the general operations and we would raise three quarters of a million dollars a year toward closure. JIM COUGHLIN-Steve, you lost me could you please backup. Fifteen hundred bags a year or fifteen thousand bags a year? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Fifteen thousand tons a year. We have a hundred bags per ton so fifteen thousand that gives us a million and a half bags a year or equivalent. A pickup truck is X number of bags we've got to measure it and figured it out the cubic yard. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-This is something I think we need to look into Steve. I think a pickup truck of not going into the compactor, but bringing other stuff in so I hope we're not mixing apples. . . SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It can't it's got to go compactor. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Wait a minute. I'm talking about a pickup truck would normally have bags in them. . . COUNCILMAN MONTESI-We hope. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well they are going to get charge per bag. Your not going to bring in loose garbage. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-If they don't have per bag then we're going to have to have a price per cubic yard. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Which would amount to roughly, I had this figured out the other day, we needed to get a hundred dollars a ton we're looking at roughly twenty five to thirty dollars a cubic yard. Washington County currently gets twenty two dollars a cubic yard before the burn plant so we're right on target. MR. COUGHLIN-What did you say we're going to charge them a cubic yard? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We got to figured it out. All I'm saying is that we need this money per bag or equivalent. MR. COUGHLIN-Two dollars a bag. BOARD-Two dollars a bag. MR. COUGHLIN-Where you lost me is how many bags a year do you think we're going to generate. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-A million five hundred thousand or equivalent. COUNCILMAN MONTESI -Based on the fact that each bag was twenty pounds. MR. COUGHLIN-Twenty times two would be three million dollars. COUNCILMAN MONTESI -Right. SUPERVISOR BORGOS- The best we can do Jim is anticipate fifteen thousand tons coming this way. It may be ten thousand tons, it may be thirty thousand tons, I don't think it will go thirty. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think no matter what we do we have to do it the thought right now we're going to have to come back in four months, three months or something and find by experience what's really going to happen. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-This is exactly why I have not put out numbers because as we are closer to it we see all these little ifs and what ifs. I would propose we start this way. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-We may just have to amend the budget part way through the year. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Ijust want to say this is one of the reasons I think we're going to have to meet again a couple of times. I've got to meet with the Joint Solid Waste Committee with the City I've got to look at their particular peculiar problems. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Let me know when that one meets. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Are you on that one. COUNCILMAN MONTESI -Let me just ask you. When we meet with the city and I don't mean this to sound the way it is. But, there is not an awful lot of room for negotiation it's more of an informant thing here's what we arrived at and the way we've arrived at it. SUPERVISOR BORGOS- That's the way it's always been treated before. But there is a courtesy there we have to see if they have any particular problems that they foresee that we haven't addressed. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The bottom line to them is that they'll have to understand as we do that as your residence go up there it's two dollars a bag. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Right. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The nice thing is a buck fifty of that pays for all the cost fifty cents is what is for closure and that fifty cents is important because I hate to think that people are taking this big bite in expenses and have to go out and pay more taxes to close the danm thing. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That's right. Right now we're doing well in closure and if you haven't looked at it you should look at the site, but we have about a million dollars left in the closure account. As soon as we get determination from DEC as to whether we're taking off this 2A status off the classification list we can then apply for a fifty per cent matching grant up to two million dollars. If over the course of the next year and a half we would have put in two million we're entitled to another two million actually we're entitled to whatever we get. If we get five hundred thousand in by the end of next spring we can get five hundred thousand from them, but we can go to two million. So the total estimated cost for closing the landfill was four to eight million dollars we should be able to qualify for at least two million cash from the state to keep our costs between two and three million. We've already raised a million and a half we ought to come out of here right on the button with no extra cost to the taxpayer and all closed up. JIM COUGHLIN-I just like to say something so far as to the figures that Steve has given so far is remarkable because he and I both agree one hundred per cent on those. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Jim let me ask you a question. With this scenario leaving your budget in place your eight hundred thousand dollar budget and knowing if we don't get fifteen thousand tons if we only get ten thousand tons obviously our cost of hauling away and going to the burn plant is less. If we only get ten thousand tons is your budget flexible to move down? In otherwords what would happen if things were really slowed up at the landfill, do you see that happening? JIM COUGHLIN-If I had to flip a coin it's nobody's guess we just don't know. They could either rush us heavy when the burn plant starts up because the haulers have up the price. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I'm talking about next year. MR. COUGHLIN-I got to with Steve's figures. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-But, I mean like for instance your fellows spend a great deal of their day covering trash. MR. COUGHLIN-Yes. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-They won't be covering a lot of trash now they'll have equipment up there in case we need it for other things so what do you see them doing? MR. COUGHLIN-At Luzerne Road I have a temporary helper Joe that is a part-time temporary I'll have to let Joe stay back now. One of the men up here will have to end up going over there so there is the two men over there and that will make three men up here. We will have one of them in the booth, one of recycling, one on compacting and one out on the landfill doing whatever he has to do. I have them adjusted around so I'm all set there. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-My calculations would indicate that even if our estimates are off by fifty percent even if we don't get a million and a half bags or equivalent we only get seven hundred and fifty thousand we've still will have covered all the overhead expenses that are there. I don't think we're off by fifty per cent, but if we are will, still cover our overhead. MR. COUGHLIN-If not we will be danm close. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Can we agree now on how we are going to collect the money or talked about that. MR. COUGHLIN-I like to ask a couple questions first if you don't mind. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I've got a couple of things too. MR. COUGHLIN-I propose to change the hours of the landfill and I think everybody's got one of these the other day. I like to change the hours cause it's no longer necessary to work the hours that we've been working up there for years. The starting time for everybody up there is 7:30 up at the Ridge Road Landfill and if we worked to 3:30 and get done that is plenty time that is eight hours a day and we can close the gates and go. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Excuse me just a minute can I ask a question it may be under union contract. Why now without the haulers coming in there do you feel it's necessary to start so early in the mornmg. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I ask the same question this afternoon. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-There are very few private people who would be going that time of day, but I can see somebody getting done at the 3 :00 shift and wanting to run to the landfill after they got home. I don't think these hours are purvey to the homeowner. SUPERVISOR BORGOS- Jim gave me the exactly the opposite. MR. COUGHLIN-What's happening is you have people that are going to work in the morning I won't mention people names. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I exactly do that before I go. MR. COUGHLIN-Before they come they come all dressed up they throw there garbage because they couldn't get in Sunday and they do it Monday morning or whatever morning they want to come. I do get people in the morning early so I do feel we should stay open at 7:30. One o'clock on Saturday we should be able to get out because I think your going to find out people are going to conserve a lot more now when they are charging by the bag so these hours here are handful enough to handle what we got to do up there. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-People are creatures of habit once they get used to the hours. . . COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Why are you doing Luzerne Road later then? MR. COUGHLIN-Luzerne Road this is what we've done over there for years and people seem to live with it and it seems to worked out over there we'd have to stay open Saturday there to get the forty hours in till 4:30, but that can be adjusted if you want to adjust we will adjust it. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Why are you closed on Monday at Luzerne Road? MR. COUGHLIN-Always have been closure that was the old system that the city had there for years they never opened up on Monday. I want to ask you something. The cost per cubic yard for city and town residents is nine dollars right now. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Correct. MR. COUGHLIN-What are you going to charge people when they come down from up county with their stuff that won't be burned in the burn plant? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Number one, they are not coming down from up county. The only people that would be coming down would be a municipal hauler or commercial hauler there will be no individuals coming down at any point. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-What happens if! live in Bolton Landing say, if! got to pickup truck and I'm going to dispose of a sofa. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You take it to the Bolton Landing transfer station and they're responsible for it. MR. COUGHLIN-When that container comes down what do you want to charge them per cubic yard? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That's being negotiated and those contracts haven't been resolved but the Board is well aware of that. MR. COUGHLIN-When they start coming down Monday morning can I say come on in from wherever they are coming from? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-No. Those communities have said to us they don't want to send a stick here until November 29th. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-We're not officially the Consolidated County Landfill. . . COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Until the 29th of November. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-All right so that solves that problem. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I'm assuming we're going to make the differentiation when that time comes between what's coming from Queensbury. . . SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The differentiation is there and your aware of that. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But, I can still take my pickup truck if! live in Queensbury or Glens Falls and go to our landfill. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Absolutely. We've got to set the fee for that your not going to be real happy you might better give it away a lot of people are dumping. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-That's my concern Steve that, that's what going to happen and that's really no part of this budget. But, a lot of people are going to take their old clothes that should be brought to Salvation Army and old furniture because they don't want to pay the fee. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-What do you think that site of Salvation Army has developed into now. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-There is one component that we haven't address yet that most of the other Towns have addressed and this would solve our problem and that is to locate an empty building call it a second use building. You would bring it in there and it may take a person to be there, but you have couches and chairs and we've got tons of bicycles there are tons of bicycles sitting at the landfill for free if people come and take them all kinds of very nice usable things come to us. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I thought that this was going to be part of the recycling place down there they were going to make provisions to do something like that. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The county is doing the total recycling to my knowledge that is not going to be a reuse center. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I consider that part of recycling. . . SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We need probably eight to ten thousand square feet of building. Iflittle Town of Hague is so successful and they get so much stuff and they tell wonderful stories about somebody bringing in a pair of ski's or a washing machine that doesn't work and people grab them in ten minutes take them out to a repair man and sell them for thirty dollars, fifty dollars put money back into the economy it gets rid of the solid waste it keeps people happy. I think we have to move in that direction. MR. COUGHLIN-We've been doing the same thing Steve. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We've been pulling some stuff out. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-There you go Betty the seniors they would be terrific. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We had three brand new hot water tanks a few weeks ago came in from a local retailer had dents in them they left them there. Jim told me I told a couple people the water tanks are gone perfectly usable. MR. COUGHLIN-$265.00 a piece. We've been giving away a lot of bicycles up there we've been giving away some furniture up there. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Jim was out in the truck with me and said he got a call for a guy who wants to build a little car a go cart and said gee, to bad we don't have something. I said Jim you got an old lawn mower right over there it's got all the wheels it's the right size Jim called the guy and I presume he took it. MR. COUGHLIN-He came up in about fifteen minutes. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It's a dumping picking philosophy but it works. So we've got to find a building that we can set up as part of our solid waste system to save us all a lot of money and people can leave it there for free and they can take it for free. MR. COUGHLIN-Can I put this in the paper and start Monday? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Well we don't know yet. I need another day or two to think the rest of this out we have to start about stickers verses the other stuff. MR. COUGHLIN-Steve, but Monday we're going to be up there just doing odds and ends we don't need to stay there nine and a half hours overtime. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-No. As far as I'm concerned I hope the Board would agree your man power can go on this schedule we've got lots for them to do we just can't have the public coming in until we're ready for them. MR. COUGHLIN-Price per bag we got a $2.00 price per tire is that still going to be $2.00? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Unless it goes the other way if they charge us more than their charging us now to take them away. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I don't want to set a rate until we've talked to the joint committee with the city which is in the next day or two and then we have by Town Board resolution will set those rates. That bag we're talking about is a thirty two gallon standard garbage bag. There are fifteen gallon and sixteen gallon bags out there we might want to talk about a dollar a bag half the price for half the volume to make it easier for some people some people can carry a thirty two gallon. MRS. BARBARA BENNETT-If you two, half bags are you going to go by weight and put them together? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We're going to have to go by per bag your going to have to pack them as full as you can pack them. My proposal would be as Fred Austin as proposed at the county level the fifteen or sixteen gallon bag and the thirty or thirty two gallon bag $1.00, $2.00 it looks like that would cover our expenses and take care of our needs. Then those seniors for instance or people living alone who don't have much garbage may go every two weeks for a $1.00 bag that's cheaper then it is right now, right now you only pay three dollars so some people will see a decrease and some people will see an increase. MR. COUGHLIN-But, still I can't hold the price until. . . SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We can't tell you that for another couple of days. I've got to crawl out from under the budget problem then set up the meetings with the city we may even need a special meeting Saturday or Sunday this week I'll try not to do it. I'm going to try to avoid the weekend, but I think we may end up having a meeting or two. MR. COUGHLIN-So now we're down to the cash registers that we know we need in both places that can be itemized and computerized so that we know exactly what's going on with them. I'll be set for you on Ridge Road tomorrow morning as far as that's concerned because they finished the buildings. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I believe we need some kind of a cash register to what money we do handle. I prefer not to handle much money up there. I prefer to sell the stickers either through the Town Clerk's Office or sell them to local shopping stores, food markets whatever at the full price so they can resell them as a convenience to the customer. I'm concerned because if we go up to check and we have auditors coming through here all the time and our own internal auditors if we go up to check and we look in the hoper up there if somebodies been paying cash we don't know what has been paid for in there. On the other hand we look and find a sticker on every bag we're all set. MR. COUGHLIN-For fourteen and a half years that we've been charging you wouldn't know if you look into the bag you got our car count. I called Audit and Control and talked to them. Audit and Control told me that they approve of the bag system the cash register. I talked with the head person down there providing we keep the counter on the gate and the counter is going to be moved inside the building no matter what we do and every time a car goes through you have to manually let the gate go up and the counter will go so you have an a.m. reading everyday plus you'll have. . . COUNCILMAN MONTESI-That tells you the number of cars that have gone through. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It doesn't tell us the number of bags. MR. COUGHLIN-No, but the bags are going to be right on the tape Marilyn you have seen that. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-The cash register that he has looked at gives two receipts. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Have you ever gone in Hicks Apple Orchard sometimes they say open your truck and sometimes they say how many bushels you've got I always get out of the car and open it before they ask a lot of people don't. My concerned is that your going to get it's going to be a cold windy rainy day and somebody is going to say four bags, okay four bags and they have twenty. Now, normally it wouldn't have been such a big problem it's not good but when you've been so big under our present landfill operation, but if we collect for four bags we've got to pay for twenty. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Steve your not going to stop the problem that way because I can have four bags in there with stickers on. . . you still have to inspect whatever you do. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That's what I'm saying. I think if we put a sticker on it then we know what went into the hoper we know that people didn't have a fake floor in their truck. We're talking about so much money it pays to rig up a fake floor. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-You've got to inspect no matter what you do. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Absolutely. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-So your either inspecting for bags or your inspecting for stickers. So I mean if I want to hook the system unless somebody gets out there and inspects I can hook it just as well with the sticker system as I can with cash register system. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-I'm not concerned about cash register and sticker as much as I am about security of the money. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Well that the other part. If the man whose there or women the man walks away from the building even for a minute there is a potential for somebody whose been waiting and watching to seek in and do something. Jim has told me the register can be locked the door can be locked but sometimes the lock doesn't work. MR. COUGHLIN-Let me say something before you say anything. Miscellaneous money at the landfill right now and on Saturdays when you go to the Luzerne Road or Ridge Road the money that we're handling up there is unbelievable I don't want to advertise it with the press. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Please don't put this in the paper Paul. MR. COUGHLIN-Please don't. But, what your saying you could come in my office there and have five, six hundred dollars in a hurry there 10:00, 11 :00 o'clock in the morning both places. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I don't think your going to see much difference in cash being handled. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Let me say this though. In listening to both sides I'm not one hundred per cent sure that we need to force a lot of traffic into the clerk's office and into the town parking lot here for the Town Hall. I know you said you could sell them also down at the store, but that Saturday when that person comes and there is no sticker and there is nothing else and we've made some enemies. . . SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I've talked to Jim about that. There is no reason why we couldn't have for instance one hundred stickers up there or a couple hundred stickers so that the norm would be for people to buy them some where else, but on occasion if somebody forget people could buy them there. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think your making it awful complicated. MR. COUGHLIN-I think we ought to handle it all right at the landfill and turn the money in like I've been turning it in. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Jim let me ask you something. Have you ever found the need to in the course of the day to make a deposit. MR. COUGHLIN-Yeah, I make deposits I bring them over to Darleen. But, the point is we have no control over the money if it was over to this store and this store over there how would we know. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Jim and let's be blunt so far to date we've had good luck and honest employees. Some of your employees are getting older we're going to get a bunch of new employees whether they are older or younger what if we get a dishonest employee sometimes that happens. MR. COUGHLIN-That could happen. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-What are we going to do about it. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-If! want to be dishonest I can do just like it's been done in a lot of other places. I stand at the guy, I'm working the gate he's a friend of mine you come up you put two stickers on the front bags don't bother to put them on the other and slip me half of what it would cost you to buy those stickers. If your going to beat the system you can't devise a system out there unless you put a camera in that I can't beat. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-My concern now is we're having so much money the Town could lose a half a million dollars a year. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think your borrowing problems I think you should wait to see if we're going to have a problem. MR. COUGHLIN-The other thing Steve is you have to have people up there that you know who they are which my men are honest. You just can't hire somebody off the street and say, hey your going up there to collect money you got to do a thorough investigation to see what their credit is and the whole shot and what they are thought about my men are all honest. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Well your used to handling how much a year in cash? MR. COUGHLIN-In cash up there we handle probably with the miscellaneous fund and all three or four hundred thousand cash. But that's not talking there your talking about dishonest. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-What I'm saying in light of what Steve's saying is that what we're anticipating then is going from three hundred thousand to three million. MR. COUGHLIN-No let me explain something to you. What I'm saying is the tickets that come here that you have when you come in with your business there are a lot of tickets that the commercial hauler comes in with that we punch out if the guy was going to be dishonest Mike Brandt did this years ago we don't need to punch twenty you could punch ten. When you stop to think about it whatever revenue that we collected at the landfill we're responsible for although the money was dropped at Darleen's. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Not withstanding the honesty issue that isn't bothering me to much because I have you and a responsible crew. What I'm talking about now is that we're going from three to four hundred thousand to three million. MR. COUGHLIN-If you take in that much. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Two million. MR. COUGHLIN-One million. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-That means you may be busy being a courier. MR. COUGHLIN-What I'm saying is I got to carry it as I normally carry it. I may have to bring it into Darleen a couple of times a day what do I do on Saturday with it? Darleen isn't open so we take care of it, it goes into the bank. I deposit it in the bank Saturday is your busiest day. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-See why we didn't have all the answers a couple of days ago. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I just look at all these parking lots that you pay for cash and nobody worries about. You take an airport parking lot your paying a lot of money that goes through the gate in a day that doesn't seem to have a problem with the cash system. MR. COUGHLIN-I don't think I'm going to have a problem. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Your counting seventeen hundred cars in a week that goes through? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-A hundred thousand cars a year right now. A lot of trucks of stuff goes through that adds up to perhaps as many more. MR. COUGHLIN-If you let me try it just to see how it works for a couple months then we can say hey, it's to much to little let's do something, but we got to let it work let the system work as it has been working for the last fourteen and a half years before we get all nervous. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-There is some real concerns about security not so much honest it's security. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-To me it's the security to the employees. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I would think Jim that's at least viable. MR. COUGHLIN-I don't want to say what I've done for security if it's not going into the press. I've got safes put in. . . COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Don't. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Don't say anything. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-If you have two months of trying it or even three months and then this Board or the next Board would have to weigh that with Steve and say, look Jim your handling a horrendous about of money your driving back and forth four times a day we really need to change this. I would be inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt and say keep it there only because I hate to see all the traffic generated here and then I'm not sure that a store is going to want to put up front cash to buy stickers. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Assuming you have three million dollars your looking at ten thousand dollars per day in small bills. MR. COUGHLIN-You'll never handle that much money. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Let's say, Barbara you don't mind if we use you as an example do you? She's not going to want to put out the money for ten or twenty tickets in advance. COUNCILMAN MONTESI -Stickers. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Stickers that's what I'm saying. So that means that every time she goes by here she is going to have to figure how many bags she's got and run in. Most people are not going to want to buy, let's sayan average family has three bags a week, twelve bags a month. . . COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Their not going to spend twenty five bucks. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No they are going to stop every single week and hope and pray Darleen is open when they go to the landfill. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We ought to get her a drive-up window. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I didn't say that intentionally. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Just a joke. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-I'll be really honest with you. When I was over at my mother's camp and we cleaned out her camp and we went to the Granville Recycling Center and the tickets were sold from the County Clerk in Granville that meant going to the County Clerk and then going back and giving it to my private hauler to take it to the recycling center. Once he was out of tickets he left that was it he didn't care about the garbage and he left while the job was half done because he couldn't get anymore tickets on a Saturday and I went up there thinking it had been completed and it wasn't there is an inconvenience. SUPERVISOR BORGOS- The whole topic of solid waste is going to be inconvenient for a while. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-But, I think just for right now we try the cash register so if it doesn't work I mean your going to tell whether or not it's not working in just a very short time. MR. COUGHLIN-We ought to meet at. . .and show you what's going on. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-I'll tell you another concern is who's going to be in that little building and I'm not about to pay the kind of money I've got to pay for a. . . COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Heavy equipment operator. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Heavy equipment operator to stand there and collect money. MR. COUGHLIN-No, we've got to drop that pay down. The men realize when there up there they are not going to get as much money. You see we rotate them Marilyn there will be three men and we rotate them and when he's on the back he would get the pay for taking care of the garbage when he's up front they realize. . . SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The contract doesn't provide for that, that is something we're going to have to talk about. They can always get paid more for working out of title, but they can never be paid less. MR. COUGHLIN-We can drop them in pay. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You can't do that. MR. COUGHLIN-They are willing to take a cut they realize they have to take a cut. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I think there is room for them and through attrition we will be able to use them I think we're going to have to look at Account Clerk. MR. COUGHLIN-There is another thing too that I want to bring up. We don't want to get somebody and cut their pay down so much that your going to antagonize them to want to quit. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-I'm not paying heavy equipment either. MR. COUGHLIN-No. They are getting landfill equipment which is more than heavy equipment. We're not out of the landfill business yet Marilyn. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-That's true. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Somebody is going to have to run a bull dozer on a daily basis. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I was going to say by the time you rotate them you know your not talking much money difference by the time you rotate these guys. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-That was the thing of why we went to a little bit more because some days one guy was running a bulldozer and the next day he was running a compactor and the next he was taking money on a Sunday or Saturday when you weren't there. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We will be giving them more responsibility. MR. COUGHLIN-They will be responsible for the kinds of money that is coming in they do deserve a little bit more money. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Weak argument Jim because if your a clerk at a bank they don't care whether you come in and cash a twenty five dollar check or a two hundred and fifty dollar check. MR. COUGHLIN-That's your decision Marilyn whatever you people feel we will take. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-If we got rid of all of the guys that work there you just had account clerks at the gate you couldn't run the landfill. MR. COUGHLIN-No you couldn't. COUNCILMAN MONTESI -You need to keep the crew the way it is even though you might be paying a little bit more for a person in a given time in a booth that same person can run a bulldozer for you. MR. COUGHLIN-Correct. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The Account Clerk can't run the bulldozer. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-And they are not going to stand there for eight hours a day either. Nobody is going to stand in that room for eight hours a day. MR. COUGHLIN-We may switch them four hours here and fours there. But, the point is what I was going to ask away from that I wanted to see if I could get New York Fire and Signal to put the security system in both little buildings. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-What are we talking about a intrusion alarm or fire alarm. MR. COUGHLIN-Something if anybody ever touched the doors at night or touched the side of the building. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-They are inside of the gate aren't they? MR. COUGHLIN-Yeah. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Why don't you talk to them if the Board agrees get an estimate don't do anything just get an estimate and get back to us. KATHLEEN KA THE-What about a passenger car? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Can't charge. MS. KATHE-Why not? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Because some will come with two bags and being paying to much. MS. KA THE-Then you'll know they will come into the gate if they charge six dollars for two. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-That's not fair then your penalizing the ones who don't have much garbage and not the ones who have a lot get away with murder. We're trying to induce you not to create much garbage that's the whole plan. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-People in my kind of business you've got a guy who comes up with a van a janitorial van a chevy van and he's got a van full of bags now you've got to count the bags in there. MR. COUGHLIN-That's correct. If it's two dollars a bag and you've got ten bags that would be twenty bucks. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-But you might not be able to count it until they unload it. MR. COUGHLIN-That's why you've got two men. You've got one guy at the gate and one right over in front of the compactor that's going to watch how many bags your going to throw in there. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-How does the guy know at the compactor how many were paid for? MR. COUGHLIN-They won't be going to the compactor they will be going to the transfer box right there it's only one hundred and fifty feet or whatever away from the guy. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-The guy who comes in and doesn't have bags what would the pickup truck pay that doesn't have a bag? MR. COUGHLIN-That's where your going to have a judgement call and use miscellaneous funds. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You've got to use a yard stick to have a judgement call. MR. COUGHLIN-We've had them there for years Steve. We're going to use a judgement call of measuring up his vehicle and computing. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-What could he be bringing in that wouldn't be bagged is what I'm saying? MR. COUGHLIN-Mattresses, television sets, furniture. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well I don't think they will be on that high cubic yard rate. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That ought to go to a lower rate. MR. COUGHLIN-What we're doing is charging them miscellaneous right now and it seems to be working good. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-If it's going right to the landfill that we're truly landfilling it should not have to pay a higher rate as something that is going down to the trash plant and go through all that mess. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Absolutely. See why it's not easy, what do you think about stickers? MRS. BENNETT-I was wondering about putting stickers on bags ofleaves? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Bags of leaves are going to be separate. MR. COUGHLIN-The compo sting people are asking to take compost material free I haven't got the authority to make that decision. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I don't want you to. No, because it takes manpower and it takes material on that equipment I think we should be doing just what we're doing. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-What do we charge them to take it away? MR. COUGHLIN-We are charging them three bucks now when they come in with their compost. SUPERVISOR BORGOS- Three dollars a load it is. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-How big a load? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Car or a pickup truck? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No, No, No. Your charging them just exactly what your charging them now because our expenses aren't going up. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Let me ask Mrs. Bennett, do you find it expensive at three dollars a load or is that still reasonable? MRS. BENNETT -As it is now it's reasonable, per bag I don't know. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-But, if it stays at three dollars a load. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Anything that goes into the compost pile just leave it the same way as it is right now. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-This is yet another part of this complex equation is that what goes into the hopper to the burn plant, what goes out back, what goes to the compost pile, what goes to recycling who is checking it. The list has yet to appear to my knowledge in the paper there ought to be a big ad that everybody can have on the refrigerator the county is suppose to be doing it I haven't seen anything yet. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Washington County has got a thing that everything that goes to the recycling plant for free and the stuff you have to pay because like white goods and tires goes to the same place. . . COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Do you know what happened to me in Washington County. I went to a ladies house she had a water pipe break in the ceiling tiles fell. In there there were about thirty five tiles so we picked them up and she said they are yours. I said what do you mean I don't know what do to with them in Washington County. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Were they asbestos? COUNCILMAN MONTESI-No. She said they are yours and the cost to the insurance company she said, I don't know what to do with them I would have to do a private demolition. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-C & D, Scotty McCauglin. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-This is how sensitive it is. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-It's going to be crazy before we get done. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-There will be a full time IDA paid inspector at the burn plant looking at the contents of every load of garbage that is dumped there from day one until ever. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well they've got to because you could have a lot of hazardous toxic material in there. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Also there are a lot of nonburnable kinds of things. MR. COUGHLIN-In otherwords to resolve this we sort of all agree on the cash register is that it? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-All except Steve. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Absolutely not. I think for the miscellaneous yes, but not for the daily. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I have no problem with the cash register to start. . . COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I would say this to you if this Board agrees that it would only be. . . MR. COUGHLIN-Temporary basis. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-We will give you three months at it. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I would say we will give you a couple of weeks and will check it that's what I'll say. MR. COUGHLIN-I should say you should check it every week. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Let me interject something the Town Clerk is willing to testify. The Town Clerk and I have been discussing this a couple of times as we've been going through the process, I wanted to know if she would be willing to sell the stickers. When I asked her that question she hit me with something else do you want to tell us what you hit me with? TOWN CLERK-Which one. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-About who told you what about which. In otherwords somebody has advised the Town not to operate on a cash basis up there, but rather to have stickers or something else. TOWN CLERK-I have talked to Lake George the stickers system works very good in Lake George they have had no problems. My biggest concern and I'll be very honest with you has nothing to do with your men Jim, but I can see big problems in control. If you have a number one sticker and a number twenty sticker and I have the number one and I put it in my computer I collect the money I'm balancing everyday you have no control up there. You can come in and say, okay I have twenty bags five goes in the cash register five goes in my pocket how are you going to be able to tell the difference? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-The cash register system he is talking about. . . TOWN CLERK-That's if you hit the button that says five Betty. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-You've got to hit the button. TOWN CLERK-You've got to hit the button that says five. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I'm going to get a receipt and if my receipt says five. . . TOWN CLERK-If your getting the other five bags less for fifty cents a bag and your paying two dollars a bag for the other five your going to go and yell at this guy, bullshit you are. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-You still bypass your sticker system that way. TOWN CLERK-Wait a minute. Yes you can you can get away with anything all I'm saying is the tighter control is to have the sticker on it. I sell the stickers Jim's men then are not handling as much money up there they are freed up to do other jobs that your investigating the number of stickers that go in. Steve can go in anytime or you can go in or Marilyn can go in and look in that hopper and say, why is that bag in there without a sticker in it Jim? COUNCILMAN MONTESI -Jim is going to have a check, a lady comes in and she says I have five bags we charge you ten bucks she got a receipt now that says ten bucks. When she goes over to the trash compactor she is going to throw in five bags the guy there is going. . . TOWN CLERK-And that guy is going to yell to the other one no. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Well Jimmy let me see your receipt for five bags. TOWN CLERK-Do you know how long it runs to run off a receipt it does take a few minutes to run off a receipt. MR. COUGHLIN-Not with the one Marilyn and I looked at. TOWN CLERK-It does with my machine. MR. COUGHLIN-It takes a half a minute. How long does it take Marilyn? COUNCILMAN POTENZA-It can take a couple minutes by the time you check the bags ask them how much by the time they hand you the money and you run the receipt and give the receipt back to them and or change your talking about a couple minutes. TOWN CLERK-I'm strictly looking at control. I'm looking at control it's a quick visual to see a sticker. I have the control of number one sticker to number fifteen hundred sticker of the day. Your men aren't handling the money your not taking it down the road getting in a accident someplace your laying over in a ditch and you've got fifteen hundred dollars or two thousand dollars worth of money in the truck it's right here. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-What is the opposition to the stickers? Why are you opposed to the stickers? MR. COUGHLIN-Because years ago when we started out when I first started there October 1st, 1977 charging the people we had a little sticker system. TOWN CLERK-They weren't stickers they were tags they were rip off things which I sold. MR. COUGHLIN-Which Darleen sold. It was a hell of a inconvenience for people up there at the landfill and they came charging down here and they went to see the Supervisor at that time which was Mike Brandt and they ended up giving us those to sell at the landfill and I used to turn in we sold ticket one hundred to one fifty or whatever and that's what happen. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-As Bob Bedore said when he was on the Landfill Committee the only fail safe system that is out there is to have a camera situation and that's the only, any other system I can beat. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Anybody can beat any system that they want to. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-In order to make your system the way you want to make it work we have to buy a cash register. MR. COUGHLIN-Two of them one for Luzerne Road and one for Ridge Road. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Let's say we buy that cash register and we go for two weeks with your system or three weeks and we monitor it and we get a feel of what's happening. Let's say, gee look we're really not comfortable Jim your having a hell of a volume of money it's taking longer we need to go to the sticker system what happens to those cash registers? MR. COUGHLIN-Well you still need the cash register let me explain to you. You've got tires to account for you've got scrap metal to account for and you've got miscellaneous funds and you've got your compost material to account for. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-So we could go for a couple of weeks your way review it and still go to the sticker system. MR. COUGHLIN-If you wanted to later. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-But we would get a feel for it. TOWN CLERK-I think another thing you've got to think about is the time period of a car driving up the guy looking in it you've got five bags we ring it in you give me the money I give you the change we go to the other thing. With the sticker system they avoid that completely and dump it right there. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-No they can't. Those stickers still have to be checked. TOWN CLERK-That's right Betty, but they are over at the compactor your not being checked twice your being checked once your not lining them up your backing them up onto Ridge Road. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I don't think this is a win lose situation. I think this is probably I have a feeling we're going to be overwhelmed with things, but I'd be willing to let you because you never failed us on the landfill take a couple of weeks and see what's happening. I'm not making an investment in a machine that I'm not going to use. MR. COUGHLIN-We need them anyway for the miscellaneous and things like that. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I think it's worthy of. . . MR. COUGHLIN-Trying it. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Trying it. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-How do people feel consensusly, George isn't here again. How do you feel? Do you want cash, do you want cash? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I'm willing to go with cash. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I think I'd like cash I like to at least let him try it a couple weeks. MR. COUGHLIN-We spent time and everything on this. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-I know that and that's not the question. That is not my problem with it. My concern is more of a safety concern for theory not on the part of the employees, but on the parts of the general public. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think we're really reaching. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-People don't understand. MR. COUGHLIN-You take to two hundred thousand on Saturdays. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-I understand that Jim, but people don't understand that because hasn't been flashed in the papers and people are not aware of it. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to realize the amount of dollars that are going to be filtered through this. . . MR. COUGHLIN-But we don't know for a couple of three weeks where we stand we should review it every week Marilyn and say here is what we've got. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-I will tell you I am prone to go stickers. If you want to try it for a couple of weeks, but I have a feeling the sticker is a more secure more control. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Sticker is the only thing I could feel relatively comfortable with sticking my neck on the line and my signature on the line when I sign state reports. I am very very uncomfortable with dollar bills I really am. I have no problem with Jim collecting his miscellaneous money up there with his tires with the other stuff, but soon many many other things. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-What about convenience within this Town Office Building and how many people Darleen is going to tie up. Most people come in and buy their stickers one weeks worth at a time. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Probably ten dollars worth at a time. Let me ask Mrs. Bennett put you on the spot. If your going to have one bag a week or every two weeks would you think? MRS. BENNETT-I go once a month. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You go once a month and you have a bag a month? MRS. BENNETT-I would have one garbage two others plus lawn. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Let's forget the lawn clippings for a minute. MRS. BENNETT-I would have about two or three bags. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Would you buy stickers every month for four dollars or would you buy ten dollars worth? MRS. BENNETT-I'd probably buy them every month. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Half of the people if they buy them then they are going to lose them. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Would you rather come here to the Town Office Building or buy them at a grocery store? MRS. BENNETT-It wouldn't matter to me because I'm retired. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We're going to have to vote on this or consensus. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-We did. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We voted. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-And we didn't put December 1st. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I want to go on record as opposed for the management perspective no offense to Jim or any of his people I am very uncomfortable with this. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-Consensus at this point is December 1st. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-You think we will give him a hard time when he comes back and wants to go with the stickers. MR. COUGHLIN-I'll come back and report to you every week. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-So from whenever we open which will be some time next week we got to work it out until December 1. COUNCILMAN POTENZA-I'm looking towards this from the 7th to December 1, or whatever. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-So your saying hold off on ordering any stickers it takes us a week to get stickers. I am totally totally opposed couldn't be more opposed. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-If it takes a week to get the stickers and then maybe Jim can come back in three weeks tell us how it's working. MR. COUGHLIN-I want to come here every week and tell you. COUNCILMAN MONTESI -You want to be up there to see the traffic tie up that is going to be a convenience factor to. MR. COUGHLIN-Okay we've got the hour situation straighten around. Now, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday are we closed? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-My opinion at this moment would be planned to be closed if the Board I hope agrees. If when we get to Friday which is two days from now things are looking a lot better cleaner and crisper and I'll have the time after tonight when I get this budget out of my way I'll go up and look at both landfills both transfer stations and come back with a recommendation to the Board. My best judgement is to be closed with the exception of Ridge Road being open to take tires, whitegoods, nonburnable stuff. I have personally no problem with that if we can figure out a mechanism to be able to sort out what you will take and what you won't take. We cannot permit anybody to come into that landfill and dispose of stuff up there that is suppose to go to the burn plant not even a spec of it because the law says it all goes to the burn plant. MR. COUGHLIN-So if a person pulls in with their garbage say on Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday I turn them away? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That would be my recommendation to the Board to be followed later this week by a decision. MR. COUGHLIN-Well you say your going to meet with the Queensbury Glens Falls Joint Landfill which Betty is a member of your a member of. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Which your a member of. MR. COUGHLIN-So we ought to know what's going on before if you want to meet Saturday and Sunday. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Hopefully it will take place even Friday. I've got the budget it should be done. We've got that to do yet this evening hopefully we've got a meeting at seven we've got a meeting at seven thirty hopefully will get in and out of the rest of this. MR. COUGHLIN-So will shut down for eight hours a day starting Monday through next week the hours that we presented the Post Star everybody agreed on. TAPED TURNED MR. COUGHLIN-You've got to buy one cash register now anyway to get it set up. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Well you've got to buy two. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You can't do it with one your going to need two anyway. MR. COUGHLIN-The building isn't built over there yet. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-He wants to get Ridge Road all up and ready. MR. COUGHLIN-I want to get Ridge Road all set up with a counter. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-In any event your going to need two even if we go with the stickers your still going to need two registers. MR. COUGHLIN-I've got your permission to buy them. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You've got the permission of the Board the consensus here. They are under the bidding limit? MR. COUGHLIN-Yeah. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Please get two registers. MR. COUGHLIN-Thank you. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Your welcome. Thanks for coming in. I think we're on the right track. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Is there anything else we need to ask Jim about his regular budget? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I'm comfortable with it. I've recommended putting in a couple extra dollars. I'll have to go back through and recalculate it after our numbers here. We just have to cover those salary items there are only a few of them. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Can I make a suggestion. As far as I'm concerned I may not agree with the salaries, but I don't think they are going to affect the budget. I mean you put them in the budget the way you've got them. I may not agree with you put them in the budget and then will have after the budget we've got time after the public hearing cause it's not going in by people it's just going in by line items for salary. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Right. But, on our own forms they are some people we want to talk about. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-You mean there are going to be adjustments rather than the straight? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-In almost all cases I'm proposing the five point five per cent increase rounded to the nearest ten dollars instead of one hundred. What you see in here now has been rounded to one hundred, I think we can round it to ten and we save a little and nobody gets cheated. There are two or three people I'd like to talk to you about I think deserves a little bit more than the five point five. Jim, thank you. Is everyone set with the rest of the budget so that I can go through it later tonight after my later meeting and give it to E.1. in the morning so he can get it printed? COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I'm sure we're going to fight about something we've got two, two votes here on a lot of the stuff so we're not going to get any place. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I know it's going to be tough stuff. But at this point we're going to have to go through with this level. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-You need to go through what we've already done. We don't have an awful lot of. . . SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The only thing is a couple salary items is all I need to talk to you about now. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-That I just raise with you before we finish the night up that is Betty Eggleston's software hardware computer to get her on line. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Was that with this new guy? COUNCILMAN MONTESI -Yes. I asked Darleen and she feels very comfortable. But what Darleen says is there are two lines that have to be added to Betty's budget to include that software hardware or however you as the financial officer want to do it. TOWN CLERK-This is for next year right? COUNCILMAN MONTESI-That is for next year. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-How good are the numbers? TOWN CLERK-They look good to me. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I mean as far as is this stuff on state contract? TOWN CLERK-The hardware would be the software wouldn't. SUPERVISOR BORGOS- The hardware is on state contract? TOWN CLERK-He is awfully good about doing that. He has with mine and he has with the rest of us. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We still have bidding limits this year that don't apply next year and were bumping up against them as I look at this. TOWN CLERK-Your not bumping up against the hardware. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-It looks like it to me that we are. TOWN CLERK-For next year no. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Not for next year for this year. TOWN CLERK-I thought you said this was next year's budget. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-This year we still got the bidding limits so there is no idea to buy any of this this year. TOWN CLERK-I don't know. I don't know what your plans were. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We can include this in the budget then. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-For next year. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-For the 1992 budget. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-For the 1992 budget. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Are you guys saying there is no limit from now on? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-No, next year it increases. It goes ten and twenty. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-They've taken into consideration the inflationary factor. MR. COUGHLIN-Thank you all. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-As I started to say a minute ago after our discussion when I clean up the budget where ever there is a difference between incoming expense as it balances I'd like to make up that difference in the miscellaneous contractual expenditure line. If we're offby a few thousand dollars the budget has to balance revenue and expense let's put it there we don't have to spend it, but that's where it would balance rather than a specific item that we can't really anticipate really at this moment. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I'm sure at the public hearing we're going to work some more out anyway so I'm not going to be to concerned about it at this point. We don't have time enough now to be this concerned so were going to be concerned afterwards. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I guess I need to call for an executive session to discuss a few salaries and hopefully will be out of here. RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 575, 1991 INTRODUCED BY: MRS. MARILYN POTENZA WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: MRS. BETTY MONAHAN WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Regular Session and moves into Executive Session to discuss salaries. Duly adopted this 30th day of October, 1991, by the following vote: Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent:Mr. Kurosaka RESOLUTION TO ADJOURN EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 576, 1991 INTRODUCED BY: MRS. MARILYN POTENZA WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: MR. RONALD MONTESI WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Executive Session and moves back into Regular Session. Duly adopted this 30th day of October, 1991, by the following vote: Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent:Mr. Kurosaka RESOLUTION REGARDING PREPARATION AND APPROVAL OF PRELIMINARY BUDGET RESOLUTION NO.577, 1991 INTRODUCED BY :MRS. MARILYN POTENZA WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION, SECONDED BY MR. RONALD MONTESI RESOLVED, that this Town Board having prepared a Preliminary Budget does hereby approve as the Preliminary Budget for the Town and several districts therein contained for the Fiscal Year beginning on the first day of January 1992 the itemized statement of estimated revenues and expenditures hereby attached and made a part of this resolution, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that such Preliminary Budget shall be filed in the Office of the Town Clerk where it shall be available for inspection by any interested person at all reasonable hours, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that this Board shall meet at 7:00 p.m. on the 7th day of November 1991 at the Queensbury Activity Center for the purpose of holding a Public Hearing upon such Preliminary Budget, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk give notice of such Public Hearing in the manner provided in Section 108 of the Town Law, and that such notice by published and posted substantially in the following form: NOTICE OF HEARING ON PRELIMINARY BUDGET FOR THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY FOR THE YEAR 1992 NOTICE is hereby given that the Preliminary Budget of the Town of Queensbury, County of Warren, State of New York for the Fiscal Year beginning January 1, 1992 has been completed and filed in the office of the Town Clerk of said Town where it is available for inspection by any interested person at all reasonable hours. FURTHER NOTICE is hereby given that the Town Board of said Town of Queensbury will meet and review said Preliminary Budget and hold a Public Hearing at 7:00 p.m., on the 7th day of November 1991 at the Queensbury Activity Center, Bay at Haviland Roads, Queensbury, New York, and that at such hearing any person may be heard in favor or against the Preliminary Budget as complied for or against any item or items herein continued. AND FURTHER NOTICE is hereby pursuant to Section 108 of the Town Law that the following are proposed salaries of Town Officers in this Town: SUPERVISOR $ 53,000 TOWN COUNCILMAN (4) $ 9,500 TOWN CLERK $ 39,000 SUPT. OF HIGHWAYS $ 50,000 TOWN JUSTICES (2) $ 24,500 Duly adopted this 30th, of October, 1991, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos NOES: None ABSENT:Mr. Kurosaka On motion the meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY Submitted, DARLEEN M. DOUGHER TOWN CLERK TOWN OF QUEENSBURY