2007-05-14 SP MTG20
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 05-14-2007 MTG. #20 1
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. #20
MAY 14, 2007 RES. 231-232
7:00 p.m.
TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC
COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR
COUNCILMAN RICHARD SANFORD
COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH
COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER
Warren County Sheriff Larry Cleveland
Town Counsel Matt Fuller
Sr. Planner Stu Baker
Director of Building and Grounds Chuck Rice
Lake George Watershed Conference Dave Decker
Supervisor Stec- Opened the Meeting.
1. Discussion – Court Expansion Capital Project
Supervisor Stec-Have been discussing this proposal over the last eight months. The
project has been discussed with the Warren County Sheriff and our Judges and also
concerns have been raised with regard to security at the Court. If agreeable will place the
project out to bid for a design build as was done at the State Police Building.
Director Rice-This will be a conceptual discussion, presented drawings to the Board.
The driving force of the expansion is the increase in cases, concerns have arisen over
where to place detainees in a more secure location. Proposals 1. add structure to the rear
of the Court Building 2. structure is nibbled into the building Adjustments have to be
made to accommodate the jury, also other men’s and lady’s room plus taking advantage
of the magnetometer. The first drawing incorporates an exterior walkway coming up to
the rear entrance of the building, there would need to be modifications done to the
interior of the building. The proposed expansion 450 sq. feet.
Warren County Sheriff Cleveland-Spoke to the board regarding the need for detention
equipment at the Court. Any detention facilities would have to be inspected by the State
Commission of Corrections and State Office of Court Administration. Warren County is
looking into the possibility of obtaining funds for the detention equipment for the Town.
Councilman Strough-Questioned if this proposal would accommodate future needs?
Warren County Sheriff Cleveland-If we have the right square footage in here the
Commission will authorize up to eight people in the holding area, the small holding cell
they should authorize up to four. We are bring a dozen up to the Court right now.
Councilman Boor-Under either proposal only one prisoner would be in court at a time the
rest would be in a holding cell.
Councilman Strough-Questioned the security for the conference room.
Director Rice-Noted there is a door placed to isolate the conference room from the men’s
and lady’s room. The drawings are only preliminary and can be changed.
Supervisor Stec-You have identified the need the Board understands the need, I think we
have enough to go on to get it to the next stage, we will need a resolution to go out to bid
for design built.
Councilman Boor-Requested that the judges review the proposal again for their input.
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 05-14-2007 MTG. #20 2
Director Rice-We have kept them up to speed on this. With a single exit and entrance
vs a double, if we do a double we would pickup twenty five to thirty spaces for parking
and that is critical.
Supervisor Stec-Requested that Director Rice contact the Highway Dept. for an estimate
on establishing a new egress and ingress and parking lot re-pavement.
Director Rice-Will contact the judges to review the plans, and then supply you with the
finished product and move forward with a design built. This is a capital project and will
have to go in front of the Board.
Supervisor Stec-The next time to come before the Board will be a resolution to put it out
to bid for a design build.
2.Septic Maintenance District Update
Lake George Watershed Conference Mr. Dave Decker-Gave to the Board a draft Map,
Plan and Report establishing a special use district this will be the first one in New York
State a septic maintenance district also referred to as a Responsible Management Entity.
The report talks about the reasons why, who is included in it and defines what the district
looks like and a budget with operating costs. Goals of district to protect the water quality
within Lake George, there are five to six goals and objectives that are specifically
highlighted in the grant applications for which you receive funding. It is essentially
going out and educating the homeowners in a particular area as to what the properties and
the maintenance of the septic systems are, inventorying them and finding out where their
systems are and finding out where and when they were built, locating them, constructing
a data base for future reference and then going about properly operating them and that
includes a pump out once every three years. In Rockhurst, involves eighty five
properties..it anticipates using the Towns existing GIS data base as a platform in which to
compile the data once it is obtained and then it schedules the systems the non holding
tanks systems would be pumped once every three years. Bid would be solicited for that
service. The incentive to the homeowner is the system will be more operationally
efficient and it would be cheaper then he would get it if he went out and contracted
himself. The Town will have the knowledge and understanding that the system is being
inspected every year, and maintained and pumped out. The map, plan and report also
constructs a budget, we have two grants to fund this. The first $15,000 grant was from an
2004 grant that money has not been spent yet, the $100,000 grant that came through DEC
Round 9 Applications that will be spent within the Town of Queensbury. Budget: 1.
District formation- noted that engineering and drafting is part of what the grant is paying
for. 2. Legal – Town Counsel will provide legal review, will have filing fees and
public notices 3. First Year of Operation - contract for services, five man days in the
office to schedule visits, making two inspections a day-total of forty three man days, 360
hours of time approximately $16,000 - input data – 85 hours $3,800. also need public
outreach and education, that is what I provide - re: pump out service – received five
quotes the homeowner will be paying part of the pumping out – also set up four man
weeks of on call time - total of process $32,000 for the first year, apply $28,000 of the
grant for the first year operation, net cost to property owners 85 of them of $4,900. it
will cost $60. for the first year of operation of the district.
Councilman Strough-What is defined as Rockhurst?
Mr. Decker-I need that input from the Board.
Councilman Boor-There are three Harold Kirkpatrick’s when you count the number of
people in the district are you counting him three times?
Mr. Decker-I am counting properties. You will be asked if I have a vacant piece of
property why am I being charged? Because you are in the district.
Councilman Sanford-Questioned if this was to be a large holding tank for several to
pump into or maintenance of existing systems?
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 05-14-2007 MTG. #20 3
Councilman Boor-Noted that the district needs to be set up first and then at a later date if
it is deemed that there is enough people that are trying to expand do more than what can
be done on these small parcels then we might say the district is already set up if it is
deemed appropriate that you want to expand and this is the wave of the future then we
have the option of going to this in order to allow for that type of development.
Councilman Brewer-Questioned if they find a system that is substandard are they
required to bring it to town standards?
Mr. Decker-If it is not failing they will not have to unless, at some point in time will want
to adopt or have some operating regulations as to what happens within a district.
Supervisor Stec-I think we are comfortable with heading this toward the establishment of
this district. Noted that our Attorney will review the map, plan and report, our biggest
question out there was the district boundary, how far south and east do we go?
Mr. Decker-There was a map drawn, will bring it to the Town Board.
Supervisor Stec-Cleverdale and Assembly Point will be looking at this as a test case.
Mr. Decker-We want to tie down the number of lots and come up with a definitive map,
take comments from you to be put in the map, plan and report and then at some point in
time you deem that its final, then we would schedule another public gathering at the fire
house, take their input and boil it back into the map, plan and report, have the Attorney
review it one last time and then the Board would take action to accept the map, plan and
report, then it would be on the table for thirty days for a permissive referendum. Hope
to have a mid July meeting with the residents.
Unknown-Will need to have a SEQRA done…want noted in resolution form that for
future boards that the Town Board has identified expansion on small lots is an issue.
Mr. Decker-Cut off the comments and question in about two weeks, then I would revise
the map, plan and report and have it back in a June Town Board Meeting to adopt or
accept. Received a call from DEC the old North Queensbury Sewer Project Pump
Station force main is still on their intended use plan it has a score of zero with no dollars
attached to it. The project is no longer, if they need some formal thing from you a letter
to remove the project will contact the Supervisor.
3.Proposed Trapping Local Law
Councilman Boor-Presented the Board Members with a draft Local Law on Trapping in
the Town of Queensbury. Not within 500 of a dwelling unless the only residence within
the perimeter is one’s own, or within 150 feet of a public highway.
Councilman Strough-I will not be able to use my “Havahart”. Questioned if there could
be exceptions to commonly used traps. Need definition of trap.
Supervisor Stec-Spoke on the safety issue, traps will have to be 500 feet from a dwelling,
150 feet from a road I think is reasonable measure for us to take.
Councilman Boor-Define Trap as a device that inflicts pain, injury, severing or death?
Supervisor Stec-Suggested that the Town look into the definition used by Encon.
Councilman Sanford-Suggested that the definition is what is not a trap such as Havahart
and mouse trap.
Councilman Boor-If we are focusing on the public safety part of the law then that is what
it should address I do not think that something that captures without inflicting pain or
suffering or death would apply.
Unknown-When you start carving out exceptions the law gets shaky.
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 05-14-2007 MTG. #20 4
Supervisor Stec-We are in agreement on where we want to go…
4.Proposed Local Law to Chargeback Engineering Costs to BOH Applicants
(Skip to #5)
5.Proposed Building Code Changes
-
Town Counsel Matt FullerNoted Dave and Mike did a good job going through the
proposed changes…
Councilman Strough-We are also going to adopt the State Energy Conservation
Construction Code?
Town Counsel Fuller-Yes.
Councilman Strough-When they say firemen are we talking about fire protection area or
fire companies? Page 2 Section 4B Do we have to define fire department in accord with
our Town?
Town Counsel Fuller-That is why we left it open ended.
Supervisor Stec-Can we say Fire Company / Department?
Town Counsel Fuller-We could. Section 3 the only thing we did is list out all the
powers that the directors have Section 5 Our law did not set forth the exemptions in the
State Code when you don’t need a building permit, we tidied that up. Section 6 the
application forms all we are doing is bring in the Local Law into alignment with the
practice. Section 7 added the Fire Marshal
Councilman Boor-Questioned what training will be needed?
Councilman Brewer-Add that the Fire Marshal may inspect fire code issues.
Town Counsel Fuller-The duties of Code Enforcement, Zoning Administrator and Fire
Marshal are set out in Chapter 88 right now. Will clarify by stating, falling under their
respective jurisdiction. Section 8 clarification on how stop work orders are served
Section 9 is legalese issue we want to make sure we are not limiting ourselves just for a
stop work order. Section 10 Inspections are currently left to the discretion of Code
Enforcement the State law wants something a little more bullet proof. In practice we
were meeting this anyway. Section 11 Certificate of Occupancy in practice the CO’s
that we are using have all these things in them, we just did not spell it out in the local law.
Section 12 Operating Permits Certain uses are going to require more frequent
inspections…
Councilman Strough-In D …need to change the a to upper case A
Town Counsel Fuller-Section 13 legalese change it does not limit us to one remedy.
These were the changes that had to be made according to the State.
Councilman Strough-Re: Knox Box – we can make it mandatory that we have a lock
system that would give EMS, Fire and Empire they all get keys to any of these buildings.
Supervisor Stec-I think our recommendation right now is to take no action on the Knox
Box. Requested that the changes be presented to the Board and have a public hearing in
June or July to adopt changes.
(back to #4)
4. Proposed Local Law to Chargeback Engineering Cost to BOH Applicants
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 05-14-2007 MTG. #20 5
Supervisor Stec-We are looking for a way to charge back engineering costs on Board of
Health applications. Asked Town Counsel to find the proper location for that proposal.
Councilman Sanford-Questioned if the $1000 limit be raised for this type of engineering?
Noted there is a $1000 limit for the Planning Board costs…
Supervisor Stec-We will want ours to be separate from the Planning Board.
Councilman Sanford-We want to be able to say to somebody if they come in and want an
out of season test pit, we will allow it to happen but at your nickel. If they then go in
front of the Planning Board and they need to have some independent analysis they also
want to have a charge back mechanism.
Supervisor Stec-That the Town Board does not encumber.
Councilman Sanford-Questioned the CT Male bills and if they were reimbursed by the
applicant?
Sr. Planner Baker-I will look into that.
Councilman Strough-Spoke about fixed fees for test pits and assess the integrity of the
system being proposed, we may be able to get a figure and then the applicants would
have a known quantity.
Supervisor Stec-The biggest question is where to put this in our Code.
(skipped to #7)
7. Rezoning Items
Supervisor Stec-Need to identify, if any, which rezoning requests can go forward?
Councilman Strough-I think we are close enough right now, in July or August we will be
looking at the Zoning Map when we do so we can consider the list of rezoning requests.
Sr. Planner Stu Baker-From the submissions from November 2005, St. John application
on Bay Road is covered in the current draft of the Comp Plan. All the others are not
supported by the current draft of the Comp Plan…
Councilman Strough-The K-Mart one is not touched on, I see no reason why that should
be zoned commercial/industrial anyways. That is a highway commercial intensive area.
Supervisor Stec-Consider the following: St. John application, Top of the World
application, K-Mart application
Councilman Sanford-Recommend Maccri application
Supervisor Stec-And East Avenue rezoning…
Sr. Planner Baker-This is how they need to be addressed, Top of the World-PUD
amendment which they need to initiate - K-Mart, Warren Tire The Board can
probably change the zoning language what I need to confirm whether there is supporting
language in the existing Comprehensive Plan -
Supervisor Stec-Requested that Sr. Planner Baker get all five going. The Town Board
has the option to send these to the Planning Board for recommendations I would submit
all five of these we do not need to do that.
Board agreed
Councilman Boor-Asked for a time line.
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 05-14-2007 MTG. #20 6
Sr. Planner Baker-I am hoping to have the draft Comp Plan revisions done by the end of
this month. Moving the re-zonings forward, I will have to take a look at what needs to
happen with each. Questioned if the current Comprehensive Plan does not support a
proposed rezoning and the draft but not adopted Comprehensive Plan does support a re-
zoning does the Board have appropriate legal …
Town Counsel Fuller-Any rezoning has to be made in accordance with the
Comprehensive Plan, if you have a past Comp Plan that has language in it that might
conflict with the Zoning Changes you want to do and you have about to be on the table
the changes to the Comp Plan that would benefit this you have to get the changes in first.
Sr. Planner Baker-Will look at the current Comp Plan to see if it supports the rezoning.
Supervisor Stec-For these five you need to do a quick look for all five and if you see any
show stoppers that we have not talked about tonight bring it to our attention. If you can
have everything ready for the Town Board to set a public hearing at our next meeting.
Discussion held regarding a parcel of land that a person wishes to put a house on, needs
to be on a Town Road asked the Mr. Baker contact Supt. Mike Travis regarding the road.
Councilman Sanford-RE: Taxation of municipalities properties 1. Memo suggests that
it is not a matter that the County Building can be exempt from taxation is that it is exempt
from taxation 2. If property is owned by a municipal corporation not within its
corporate limits which is used for fire protection services, public park, public aviation
fields they can be I interpreted is exempt from taxation provided that there is a written
agreement resolution regarding the same, that begs the question, do we have an
agreement or resolution on the airport and if not then where does that put us?
Town Counsel Fuller-The airport is within the corporate limits.
Councilman Sanford-So, the way you describe it, it is within the County.
Councilman Boor-That raises the question with ACC does Washington County have the
ability ..
Supervisor Stec-Technically Warren County owns the property, we are joint sponsors.
Councilman Sanford-3. Re: Water does the Town of Queensbury provide Water to
Kingsbury?
Supervisor Stec-yes.
Councilman Sanford-So we do not have an issue based on this memo with any of the
County and or agency issues and not assessing or charging them fire protection taxes.
Town Counsel Fuller-The Municipal Center and the airport we do not have any
discretion.
Councilman Sanford-We do not need an agreement?
Town Counsel Fuller-Correct
Councilman Strough-There is over two hundred million dollars worth of assessed
property mostly in the southern part of Queensbury that is tax exempt for fire protection,
and it still has to be protected.
Supervisor Stec-All their properties within the County are exempt from fire tax.
(back to #6)
6.Union Contract Negotiating Team
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 05-14-2007 MTG. #20 7
Supervisor Stec-It is contract negotiating time for the CSEA Contract, we are at the end
of the five year cycle, we need to pick a negotiating team. Former contract negotiated by
the Comptroller, the Attorney and two councilmen. Suggested Tim and another
councilman.
Councilman Boor-Suggested the Supervisor and Councilman Sanford.
Councilman Brewer-Noted he would like to be on the negotiating team, noted the last
contract covering five years was done in record time.
Councilman Boor-I do not think we were tough enough, we have the Rolls Royce of
Health Insurance.
Councilman Sanford-The biggest problem that we have with our health insurance, the
cost is very important and the problem is that we have such a unique health care that
there is not a lot of feasible alternatives during the tenure of the contract should we want
to switch to a different carrier. Right now they are in the EPO, PPO, which is a very
good but expensive plan if we all of a sudden have a problem with the quotes that we are
getting from Empire you cannot go shopping around very easily because they are the only
ones offering the thing. The other issues that is being addressed is the treatment of
retirees under health care plans especially now all of the government endorsed and or
endorsed encouraged sponsored supplements that are out there. We are paying full boat,
we are paying huge dollars to keep retirees on a Rolls Royce Plan when in fact if we just
integrated with Medicare and paid supplements we could be savings tons of bucks.
Having said that it is one thing if we are making the decision around this table it is
another going to collective bargaining and making the case because they are going to see
that as a take away. It is going to be a extremely complicated process to try to come up
with what is in the best interests of the Town regarding health care. It is also problematic
in a lot of ways if we bring in a broker agent on this situation the objectivity isn’t there.
Supervisor Stec-Negotiating team Barbara Tierney, Richard Sanford, and myself and our
Attorney.
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR AN EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 231, 2007
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
RESOLVED,
that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into an
Executive Session to discuss employment histories of two town employees.
th
Duly adopted this 14 day of May, 2007 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 232, 2007
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Richard Sanford
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 05-14-2007 MTG. #20 8
RESOLVED,
that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its
Executive Session.
th
Duly adopted this 14 day of May, 2007 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec
NOESS: None
ABSENT: None
Councilman Boor, Councilman Sanford and Councilman Strough left the building.
As there was no quorum Supervisor Stec, adjourned the meeting 10:00 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Miss Darleen M. Dougher
Town Clerk-Queensbury