1990-07-16 REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING
JUL Y 16th, 1990
6:53 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Supervisor Stephen Borgos
Councilman George Kurosoko
Councilman Marilyn Potenzo
Councilman Betty Monahan
MEMBERS ABSENT
Councilman Ronald Montesi
- TOWN ATTORNEY
Paul Dusek
TOWN OFFICIALS
Kathleen Kothe, David Hotin
PRESS
Channel 8
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 408, 1990,Introduced by Mrs. Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Marilyn Potenza:
RESOL VED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into Executive
Session to discuss litigation and personnel matters.
Duly adopted this 16th day of July, 1990, by the following vote:
A YES: Mrs. Potenzo, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
NOES: None
ABSENT:Mr. Kurosaka, Mr. Montesi (Mr. Kurosoko entered during Executive Session)
RESOL UTION TO RECONVENE
RESOLUTION NO. 409, 1990,lntroduced by Mrs. Marilyn Potenzo who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Mrs. Betty Monahan:
RESOL VED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into Regular Session.
A YES: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenzo, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
NOES: None
ABSENT:Mr. Montesi
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY SUPERVISOR BORGOS
HEARINGS
DISCUSSION HELD ON FLYNN PROPERTY/MANNIS ROAD 7:35 P.M.
Dove Hatin-Director of Building and Code Enforcement. The Board is very familiar with
this at this time. To date we requested that a fence be put up lost week, the fence along
Monnis Rood is up somewhat of a snow fence. There are two signs if my memory serves me
correctly on the fence, I don't know if that is what the Board was looking for I suppose they
were looking for something more substantial. The Board is also ow re that action was started
in court two or three weeks ago for zoning violations and when I was on vocation the Attorney
also brought up an unsafe structure. 1 don't know if there is anymore than that, I think the
Board is somewhat familiar with everything that is going on here.
Supervisor Borgos-Thank you. Mr. Schoder, would you introduce yourself please? Mr. Schoder
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has just given each of us a letter that he has hand carried today based on inspection today.
Did you bring extra copies of that with you?
Mr. Schoder-No, I didn't Mr. Borgos.
Carl Schoder-I work as a professional engineer for Rist Frost Associates and I'm acting in
capacity as Town Engineer this evening. Basically, I assume that the Board has been appraised
as to what the present conditions are at this time.
Attorney Dusek-Excuse me, if I may, just because we are making a record of the hearing.
could I recommend that Mr. Schoder just briefly outline the conditions for the record even
though the Board has heard this.
Supervisor Borgos-I yield to counsel.
Mr. Schoder-The property essentially is imposed of an excavation on existing gravel ridge
probably of glacial origin. The excavation has left side slopes on the east and west sides
of the property approximate heights of those slopes, again I'm doing this visually, but approximate
heights of these are twenty feet and thirty feet of grade change on the east and west sides
respectively. First the east side, the slope protection at that point the slope is laid back
at a very steep angle I did not measure it, but its certainly greater than a 45 degree angle.
The slope protection is a terrace lose rubble masonry type construction which is a lay of stone
construction without the use of mortar the thickness of that slope protection is unknown
I wasn't able to get back into the wall. The terracing occurs at about six feet on that side
of the wall where it steps back maybe four to five feet and then continues on up for another
I would say maybe twelve to fourteen feet on the upper section. The top slope of that wall
is reportedly very close to the property line which runs along the east side of the property.
For the west side the construction is somewhat different. Three landscape timber type retaining
walls with timber tie backs that protect into the bank were constructed, again were terrace
step back. This section. . .the north and south ends of those timber structures were then
terminated with again a dry lay type of a stone wall. The timber wall had reportedly failed
somewhere around November, the failed condition is what you see now and that includes the
bulging of the wall sections outward at the bottom and a vertical . . . at the top of the slope
that extends probably about ten to twelve feet in height. The type of failure that we're looking
at there is something typically characteristic of a wedge failure in this type of a sandy material.
Basically the failure has been stopped by the wall at this point in time some stress was relieved
it was dropped down to this point, however, further motion may very well occur based on
the probable inadequacy of the design in the first place. Does that clarify somewhat relative
to the existing conditions of the slopes?
Supervisor Borgos-I was with you this morning and we discussed most of this. I think now
for the record we need to discuss your opinions of essentially what's in the letter.
Mr. Schoder-Essentially, I see four issues on this project. Let's let the first issue be the stability
of the west slope that being the one with the timber retaining walls. As I noted it has already
failed it already exhibits significant amounts of bulging. There is this vertical scorpet at
the top and one additional fact that we had noted today in my inspection today was that the
tie backs that were made in place at these retaining walls are showing signs of failure with
the connection with the wall. If i may, basically this tie back project perpendicularly into
the embankment it has a ... of some sort typically the back of it and it serves to hold the
wall back from kicking. At the base of the tie bock where it comes in con toct with the timbers
that are running horizontally there is a dowel placed that connects that tie back into the
main timbers. These dowels are being pulled out of the wood by the force of the earth from
behind and see it by the displaced section of wood at the center of the ends of these members.
This is of great concern to me, because if you start to loose these tie backs you loose any
ability of the wall to retain any earth. Basically another thing that can precipitate a significant
failure of this section of wall would be a collapse of that vertical section at the top of the
existing, condition of the existing slope. If that fell it would obviously surcharge the load
that is now above these retaining walls and with the additional load could cause a total failure.
The type of failure that you may see here is something that could likely be catastrophic if
you loose one or two of those tie backs for example you could have, if you will, a domino
effect take place with the remaining tie backs.being over stressed very rapidly and you could
loose a large section of wall very quickly. So, anyone certainly below that or above it for
that matter could be ...similarly with the earth from above dropping down and surcharging
that you could have the some type of thing. Any remedial measurers that would be considered--®
relative to that particular section of the west side, the west slope I think in my judgement
should take into careful account the construction activities that would hove to be utilized
to place those measures. The reason that I have concern for this is that the granular material
that's currently behind these walls, excessive vibration and I am not sure how much vibration
is excessive in this case but vibration in general of that soil which is somewhat loosely packed
behind those walls after the November failure could cause additional settlement of that additional
lateral loading and could in and of itself precipitate a failure during the construction activity.
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So, I think some acute concern would have to be noted for how, whatever repair is implemented
would be done. OK, If I could move onto the east slope the east slope to recop this is the
masonry tybe construction its a hand-ploce masonry or it may be machine placed, but none
the less would require a bit of care in order to get a reasonable interlock between stones.
The performance of that type of a structure it con certainly be done in heights of twenty
feet, but typically the considerations that have to be token to build something of that height
especially in the soil that is prone to movement like this soil is would be on engineering effort
that certainly bores some serious investigation. I look closely at the wall today, I walked
the top of the wall and walked along the bottom, I don't see any major signs of any sort of
failure along those walls, but I emphasis that's not to soy that or the Town would soy that
wall is adequate at this point in time. I feel that additional work that will be necessary along
that east side would include investigating what types of soils are present that are being retained
such that we hove a sense of what type of viable sources would be acting on that wall space.
Secondly, ascertaining what the actual construction is of the wall how thick it is and if it
indeed has sufficient mass to resist that type of a load. The third item I would like to address
- is temporary fencing. We came on site this morning and the snow fence that Mr. Hatin noted
was in place. It's basically a 3J foot tall fence probably the fence was supported by hay bales
primarily a few stocks here and there, but it was quite loosely placed and certainly wouldn't
pose any sort of positive means to prevent people from gaining access to the site. Once more
there was no fencing in place on the north end of the site near the lake there was also no
fencing in place along either embankment up at the top which are certainly dangerous slopes
if there were a fai lure. In my opinion, this is on extremely unsafe condition and ineffect
is from the failure. Once more it has a retaining wall on one side that's a stone type retaining
wall which is something that might very well attract children playing on it that type of thing.
It's unoccupied the way it is its uncontrollable at this point and I feel that to protect people
there definitely should be a much more positive means of barrier installed around the entire
site. With regard to placement of that barrier unless soil investigations are performed that
would tell me differently I cannot tell you how for back from the crust of these embankments
those barriers should be placed. I can give you a fairly good rule of thumb based on my impressions
and the previous impression by Mr. Bill Levandowski of our office. On the east side if you
held about twenty feet bock from the brink, if you will, and on the west side again the timber
crib side if you held about thirty feet back from the brink you should provide adequate distance
to give yourself some degree of safety.
Councilman Monohon-Mr. Schoder can I ask you a question?
Mr. Schoder-Yes.
Councilman Monohon-On the west side there is a brink but then underneath its undercut so
are you making your thirty feet bock from the brink or from where its undercut underneath?
Mr. Schoder-I think I understand your question. 1 think probably I would say from the brink
there is a difference there of maybe two feet, but my numbers are very approximate they
ore a bit on the conservative side not having soil data to prove how steeply that soil can actually
stand. Obviously without that type of information I would have to error somewhat on the
conservative side, but I think we have enough in there if we just assume essentially from
the top of the bank about thirty feet. Four recommendation, if I would have a fourth concern
has to do with the east slope which is the one with the dry laid stone. If that were to prove
to be acceptable I'm not saying it isn't, but if that were to prove in the engineering investigation
to be on acceptable and a stable situation I think that another consideration should also be
taken and that is that, that does form a very steep drop off I'm going to hazard a guess that
the top of that is probably lying at on angle of about seventy five degrees it varies it goes
up a bit steeper and then it lays back a little bit. But, none the less its a very pronounce
drop off that could pose a threat to people if anyone is going from that adjoining property
say along that side if children ore playing in the backyard something to that effect and they
get too close to this the nature of the drop and for that matter the granule soil which doesn't
give you the best of footing could result in someone falling so I think that is something that
should be token into account. Secondly, again from children playing in that backyard you
do hove a dry lake side wall that could be a nice jungle gym at least from the eyes of a six
year old or something to that effect that should be considered in that light. So some sort
of a permanent fence and again the sooner that wall is at least stable the way it is some sort
of permanent I think would be a good recommendation. Any questions?
Councilman Kurosoko-How do...with a lose stone wall?
Mr. Schoder-It's very difficult.
Councilman Kurosoko-1 wouldn't do it.
Mr. Schoder-The only thing I could soy there would be if you had sufficient data as to the
thickness of the wall that you could determine if you had enough gravity mass to resist those
turns and sliding. The difficulty I have with that is your now looking for on angle of repose
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of stone itself which is a jlWe, ent call.
Councilman Kurosaka-We also have very significant sizmotic disturbances in the area and
that would do a hell of a job on stone.
Mr. Schoder-Yes, and that could certainly precipitate this.
Councilman Kurosaka-It would endanger the house that's built on it as well as adjoining property.
Mr. Schoder-Yes it would.
Councilman Kurosoko-It would slide right in the hold.
Mr. Schoder-Thats correct. It would be very difficult to undertake. I can't soy that's it's
impossible personally I would have difficulty designing that also.
Supervisor Borgos-Anything else you would like to ask?
Attorney Dusek-In order to remedy the particular safety problems that you have raised is
this something that could be done immediately or would ... plans first of all hove to be in
some fashion designed and then a solution fixed?
Mr. Schoder-The immediate implementation 1 think should be a temporary fence to prevent
people from getting in there. I see a situation here as a professional engineer I hove to advise
you that there is a life threatening situation here. So from on immediate sense I wouldn't
wait to develop plans for that matter I'd be hesitant to develop the full assessment that the
slope before doing something to protect some people from getting near. The final design
of this in my judgement is something that falls into the realm of technical engineering that
should be considered and considered carefully if indeed the owner is intending on getting
as much flat site as there is presently on that site much usable area down below the slope.
Possibly there could be some short term remedies that would certainly take care of the problem,
but they would compromise the owners ability to use that so it really depends on what their
intent is there in my opinion. You con obviously place material back and lay it in a nice slope
and if you do that you stabilize the entire situation but that is a lot of material all I can do
is tell you technically what can and can't be done. Placing that material some engineering
advise would probably be a good idea, but the plans and specs other than telling someone
to put it into this grade would probably be suitable if the retaining structure were to be built,
I would say without question we would want to do that in on engineering approach and generate
plans and specifications.
Attorney Dusek-Then it's your opinion then that there ore a variety of solutions to this problem
some may be done quicker than others is that the idea?
Mr. Schoder-Oh yeah, sure.
Attorney Dusek-Let me see if I have any other questions for you. I don't have any other questions
at the moment.
Councilman Kurosaka-Whot kind of material would you use. . .
Mr. Schoder-I'm really not so sure I can tell you the material to fill that. I'm not sure 1 would
even attempt that. . .if 1 placed something there in the interim, I think I would probably opt
for a lose dump material recognizing is not on engendered fill and getting a normal angle
of repose up against it just to minimize. . .
Councilman Kurosaka-What happened when the retention rate behind it, 1 don't know it scares
the day lights out of me.
Mr. Schoder-There are ways of doing it, I would not personally like to be the person on that
excavator or that dozer, but there are ways of doing it. The construction techniques ore
something that's why I brought that out and flagged it out in my letter. I am concerned very
much about the vibrations on that site its the type of soil that will transmit it, its the type
of soil that is highly susceptible by vibration and its the condition that might stand and very
likely might not stand any kind of residual against that wall.
Councilman Monahon-Mr. Schoder, did you make any estimate on the amount of material
that's been taken off that site?
Mr. Schoder-No, I have not. I would hesitate to do that without a bit more survey data I'm
again, estimating twenty feet to thirty feet I could be off five feet either way I'm doing this
visual.
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Attorney Dusek-Mr. Schoder, are you able to render on opinion as to the amount of time a
safe solution to this problem could be developed given somebody a reasonable amount of time
to immedidtely get in the quickest type of solution that would make the property safe take
care of the slope problem plus the height problem you know, basically in some fashion rectify
many of the concerns that you just raised. How much time do you think you would need for
one, engineering and two, construction?
Mr. Schoder-Are you asking for the least engineering intensive solution of replacing material
or are you asking relative to building a wall there ore two different answers.
Attorney Dusek-Well, 1 guess I'm asking what in your opinion is the quickest thing that can
be done that would resolve the problem.
Mr. Schoder-If fill is available placing material against the walls and not disturbing the walls
is probably the fastest again, because it minimizes any engineering lead time. I think a judgement
call can be mode reasonable well on angle of repose with that type of a solution deserves
some. . .safety factors that ore built into that mode if anything did move it's not moving
for once the material is in place. It will at that point be a matter which we will now have
to address, I don't know how much material is there so to answer your question I'm not sure
how much has to be hauled and from where the owner will be able to obtain material. If it's
something fairly close the granule fill can be brought in dropped in place and pushed around
very quickly we're talking about a few weeks worth of work there is quite a bit of material
that probably would be needed. Others solution would take longer than that to do the investigations,
but that very approximate.
Councilman Potenzo-Mr. Schoder, I understand now on the kind of material you said it depends
on what type of fill goes in there, there is fill that is better for the solution then some other
kind of fill and when you say granule fill are you talking about sand?
Mr. Schoder-Reolly what your looking for of the base of that wall is mass. This is something
that is close to be. . .the material trying to hold back. Your also looking for something that
will hold a fairly steep angle of repose, I use that word a few times it means nothing more
than a slope angle.
Councilman Potenzo-Thank you.
Mr. Schoder-Sorry, please stop me when I do that. A slope in which a bank will hold by itself
the material in a natural state. A granule fill isn't the only type of material that would be
able to do the job, but a granule fill would allow you maybe some more work obility.on site
if you want to do something else with it. It could be. . .ofter safety concerns ore addressed,
I wouldn't soy that's the only type of material, I'm looking for mass basically, I'm looking
for some weight there to hold the weight back.
Supervisor Borgos-What would you soy about leaving the present timber wall in place when
doing something verses trying to pull it out? Are you concerned of all that it might encourage
the rest of the hill to go?
Mr: Schoder-I feel if you pull that wall out the likelihood of the rest of that hill going is extremely
good. I think you certainly would loose the lose material that was involved in the wedge type
failure it's a curve surface of the ground. That material is unconsolidated it already has got
a sure thing that's established at the time of the failure you start pulling those timbers away
that material is on it's way down that will expose a very steep slope on the remaining material
behind it. If that slope will stay stable in and of itself behind that sheer-plone it's tough to
soy it probably will for o while, but not for very long. Again depending on how much vibration
you have in the area and how many other factors ore at ploy.
Supervisor Borgos-Without recommending to the owners of the property exactly how they
should go about filling this would you, however, advise against the alternative to first remove
that and do something in otherwords, leave it there and try to bury it or work around it?
Mr. Schoder-!n my judgement that would be the safest course of action. There ore certain
downsides to it you ore burying o bunch of material that you might hove other use for that
is one thought or another thought you ore burying timber and think of those pressure treated
of some point and time it will decay there would be a soft spot in the soil if you every anticipated
-- doing something over in that area there is a compress ability factor. I could see arguments
that could be used against leaving it in place, however, from a construction safety point of
view and from any degree of certainty intended to protect the existing s lopes specifically
the one above that odjoining property line. . .in trying to hold that soil in place would be probably
be to leave those timbers in place. Does that help, it kind of depends on what you want to
do later.
Supervisor Borgos-I'm concerned about somebody trying to salvage that and causing some
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problems. Pout, anything else that you wont to odd.
Attorney busek-I think Mrs. Monahan has a question.
Councilman Monohon-Mr. Schoder, would you want to get on opinion on if that wall should
go would it be apt to send any debris including some of those large rocks into the public rood
there and would it be opt to send any of the debris including the dirt into the lake?
Mr. Schoder-I could not give you any opinion on that it's two tenuous. You soy, "opt" at what
frequency at what probability? I'm trying to remember the lay of the land to address that
a little more closely it's tough it depends on what side of the slope foils.
Councilman Monahan-11m talking primarily that west slope which is probably the worst.
Supervisor Borgos-Someone from the audience has just handed o picture for the record.
Mr. Schoder-I couldn't say. It depends on how fast it goes, when it goes, how fast the boulders
that ore being retained, it's hard to soy. There is quite a distance between the lake and the
road that is flat it may very well be able to retain that.
Supervisor Borgos-Anything else Paul?
Attorney Dusek-Just one more question. Mr. Schoder, the Town Board is operating under
o Local Low which provides for their action in connection with the unsafe buildings or collapse
structures and part of the Local Low provides that the Board can order that work commence
within thirty days and be completed within sixty days. In your professional opinion is it possible
to rectify or put in some safe remedial measures within that time period?
Mr. Schoder-There are certain remedial measures that certainly could be taken within that
time period. Your talking thirty days for your recommendation commencing work of that
point and time either a engineering design or construction?
Attorney Dusek-They would have to commence within thirty days actually they would have
at this point two, three weeks in which to commence work active construction work on the
site they would hove to complete it within thirty days following that time so your looking
at o total of maybe a month and a half.
Mr. Schoder-Yes, I think something could be done.
Supervisor Borgos-Okay. Any other Board members to question Mr. Schoder before we ask
Flynn's to step up? Thank you for now, please stay with us.
Attorney Sterling Goodspeed-Mr. Supervisor, I don't mean to speak out of turn could I ask
Mr. Schoder some questions?
Supervisor Borgos-Sure, introduce yourself. Again, I ask you to do this because a day or two
or week from now some young ladies will sit at o typewriter and listen to the tope of this
and will want to know who is saying what to whom.
Attorney Sterling Goodspeed-1 represent the Flynn's. One of the questions that has arisen
on the possible solution of fill either as a permanent solution or as a temporary solution is
how stable the fill itself would be once it's in there and what measures would have to be token
to retain the fill in the gaped areas? The concern has been raised about the fill possible through
erosion going into the lake, could you speak to that at all?
Mr. Schoder-You are addressing the specific design or o design concept that has been formulated?
Attorney Goodspeed-I'm just addressing the concept of bringing fill in there as a stabilization
factor and four or five storms later absent in tirne for vegetation to grow in that area, I'm
wondering if we're going to hove a new set of problems.
Mr. Schoder-Erosion protection for the placement of fill in that area or for that matter the
construction of the removal of material from that site is something that would be mandated
by the State Department of Environmental Conservation. Those types of measures would
hove to be implemented prior to the establishment of vegetation on that site if indeed that
were the solution that were to be top soil and seeded or if hydro-seeded or any of those alternatives
The ability to retain fill would be the function of how well the erosion protection was indeed
designed. I feel that a fill could be placed at angle within that area to affect that type of
solution, however, I would caution that it might take up o sizeable amount of flat area at
the base of those slopes.
Attorney Goodspeed-Thanks.
Mr. Schoder-Your welcome.
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Supervisor Borgos-Thank you.
Attorney Goodspeed-1 guess my basic purpose here tonight is to provide the Board and the
public with on update relative to the measures that were taken a week ago tonight. The first
instance, 1 would note that 1 provided the Board members late this afternoon with a cover
letter and two correspondences. One, which intends to update the civil litigation that is significant
to the Board in that it deals with the Flynn's insurance coverage. Two, I also provided a cover
letter from Morse Engineers, engineers that we retained and actually had up on the site.
I have spent about forty five minutes up there and they've spent some additional time after
I left we did place a fence in the area. There has been much discussion about the quality
of that fence and also about the quantity and location of the fence addressing quality first.
I for one hod a heck of a time getting onto the property it took me J hour. I will not say
the fence was insurmountable, but I was trying to enter through the gateway and the mere
fact that the fence is not built out of bricks or built so that it's actually pinned into the soil
may wish to be considered by the Board as in some instances advantageous.
Supervisor Borgos-1 don't want to interrupt you, but l don't wont to miss this point. Mr. Schoder
and I got through there is somewhat under thirty seconds in two different places.
Attorney Goodspeed-Mr. Borgos, 1 have to point out that I personally was on the property
and I moved stones to permit access so that's maybe why you got in.
Supervisor Borgos-1 hod no problem picking our point of entry and we've used two different
places and took just seconds to touch the fence and move it.
Attorney Goodspeed-In any event, my clients went to a store they were informed of Adirondack
Highway Materials, that's the name of the store in Hudson Falls, they were informed of several
possibilities for fences. They asked one question, they wanted to buy the some fence that
state construction workers use on their construction sites this is what was recommended
to them, I'm not saying it's a fool proof fence and perhaps another measure should be taken.
On the quantity and size issue and I'm not certain Mr. Schoder is totally familiar with this
issue the order of the Board directed us to fill as much as possible or surround as much as
possible of the area with the fence. I hove tried to obtain permission from one of the adjacent
owners and hove been unsuccessful in doing that infoct, no response has been given affirmatively
or negatively to date to enter the property that response was made well before lost week's
meeting it was mode 2, 2J weeks ago.
Supervisor Borgos-How about the other owner or on the side of the lake?
Attorney Goodspeed-With regard to the other owner we simply haven't broached it as yet
because we weren't certain where the property lines were and how close we hod to be.
Supervisor Borgos-Agoin, I'm not trying to cut you off. But, we were very clear lost week
to soy we wanted the fences put up and there is only one owner on that east side. You could
easily determine that again, 30 seconds here at the Town office building.
Attorney Goodspeed-There is no doubt we could come look at a tax map it's not a matter
of not knowing who the owner is as o matter of fact I spoke to the owner when 1 was at the
property. But, in all honesty to place a fence up there may be very, very difficult especially
since it would require us to enter the property to stand on the wall and to post it in there.
My understanding of the Boards direction to me as Attorney for the Flynn's, was to enclose
as much as possible. 1 believe that we did that if I misinterpreted what you required. . .
Supervisor Borgos-We specifically talked about as much as possible and specifically talked
about the roadside and the lake side and there is absolutely nothing on the lake side and that
would take again, a few minutes to do.
Attorney Goodspeed-1 may be wrong Mr. Supervisor, but my understanding was that i was
not required to enclose the lake side we can certainly try to do that. In any event, we are
not able to enclose the sides at this point there is a safety factor on both east and west sides.
Our engineers advise us and I think consistent with Mr. Schoder comments that there is no
visible problem with the other wall the one that has not failed but, everyone is very leery
of it. Our engineers would propose should they become involved in the formulations of the
actual specific's they would involve that wall as well. One of the important questions here
does surround the litigation and I'm not going to bore you with all the details of that but,
I do have to represent my clients and tell you what their position is here. In the lost seven
days we've eliminated one engineer and hired a new firm. We had substantial Attorneys work
by myself and another lawyer in our firm and we've placed a fence. In seven days we've spent
$2,000.00 roughly and I wont to make the Board aware of that, that the Flynn's ore not happy
with the situation they didn't get their dream house on Glen Lake they got a mess they ore
trying to work with the Board and in turn their. . .
k
Supervisor Borgos-Again, I don't wont to stop any of your legal timing here, but I think the
Board is aware of that. I personally and I think I speak for the rest of the Board, I feel a
great deal of compassion and understanding for the Flynn's as well as for the neighbors. I
wouldn't want to be in their situation they've got a serious situation. On the other hand, unless
for some reason this fill was given away there would seem to be some source of money available.
Attorney Goodspeed-In the first instance Mr. Borgos, I'm speaking to the Board, but I'm also
trying to inform the neighbors of my clients point of view also that they want to reach some
solution here it's in everybody's best interest and they don't want lifetime enemies regardless
of whether they live there or don't live there. On the issue of the fill, this was a question
that Mrs. Monahan asked lost week and I was unable to answer at that time. The fill was
exchange in consideration for the construction work done and that's why the fill is gone now.
The fill was apparently hauled off by one of the contractors and one of the contractors that _
is in fact named in the litigation so it's no simple task to get the fill back up there. Our engineers
have talked about several things that Mr. Schoder has brought up tonight. They are very
concerned with vibration the schismatic activity was mentioned, but even concerned about
heavy equipment on the property and this renders some of the easier solutions o little bit
more complicated because you wont to make sure why your passively in there even trying
to fill it that your not going to start to have a collapse of the top portion of the wall under
the equipment so that is another concern. But, i guess what I'm getting at overall with those
concerns is Mr. Schoder's time frome for the quick fix, I believe he said was two to three
weeks plus some engineering lead time. In Mr. Dusek's office at a conference this morning
we hod discussed what our engineers had indicated was about thirty to forty five days to draw
plans, measurements, survey materials etc. for a full blown fix of the project and that was
without choosing one of the options. I just wont to make the Board aware that we're not
dilly dolling to the extent that we're trying to analyze what to do next and it is a hard technical
decision and it's o decision that ultimately may come down to money and without that insurance
policy we're in a real bind. I'm here tonight to say to you that we recognize the problem
and recognize that the fence may not be perfect, but we did get the fence up as quickly as
possible. It's not a pretty fence and may not be a solution, but it certainly renders the situation
better than it was eight days ago. What are we going to do in the next three months, four
months, I think the Town Board is faced with a choice here. You con sit and try and take
some early precautionary measures and wait and see what happens with the Flynn's insurance
coverage and then the Flynn's would pay for the project that is the Flynn's only source of
revenue to cover this project. They've paid a substantial sum of money for the property they
hove recently hod to obtain residential location two or three times relying on at some point
a house being constructed in the future there just isn't anything else there right now. So
it's a question that I posed to the Board time table verses dollars it's a decision that I think
the Board is going to hove to make. We do hove two estimates though we have not obtained
on estimate per so from our engineer he didn't verbally agree with these that for a full blown
fix regardless of how you did it whether it was fill, whether it was a re-bracing, or perhaps
a hybrid between the two which has been talked about substantially in the last week you're
looking at a cost in the area roughly of $100,000 when your done. Our engineers will charge
us to draw those plans about $8,000, that's where we've come in seven or eight days in terms
of trying to get the engineers on the scene, trying to get some intermediate protection there
so that it's rendered more safe than it was. I submit to the Board my burden here is in some
effort to show good cause why the Flynn's shouldn't be forced to do something. I submit that
the good cause is financial inability and engineering necessity. We're looking at detailed
technical work that is going to take thirty or forty five days for a permanent fix at least
thirty to forty five days before a crew con arrive on the soil up there. Even for a temporary
fix what I'm hearing is a temporary fix may conservatively be done in forty five days. I have
some concerns about the temporary fix. I went into those lost week .and I will not go through
them again, but it is a complicated and time consuming problem and that's one of the things
that we face along as yourselves. I would take any questions that the Board has. I don't have
anything else in way of a formal presentation except to indicate we're faced with the problem
and not blessed with a lot of finances to correct it.
Supervisor Borgos-Does the Board have any questions?
Attorney Dusek-I just have a couple of questions for Mr. Goodspeed. First of all, Mr. Goodspeed.
I think last week you indicated you would accept service of a notice of this hearing on behalf
of your clients and I would just asked if you infact did receive that notice?
Attorney Dusek-1 did receive it Mr. Dusek and that's why we're here tonight.
Attorney Dusek-As port of that notice it contained a description of the premises and also
you've heard a description of the premises tonight. Do you contest or object to that description
of any fashion?
Attorney Goodspeed-1 don't contest to it except to the extent that I have not consulted with
the surveyors you have at one point been involved in this project and has also not consulted
on ...and bdunds descriptions with the engineer. But, yes my general understanding is in conformity
with your document.
Attorney Dusek-You were present while Mr. Hotin testified as well as Mr. Schoder, is that
correct?
A ttorney Goodspeed-Yes, I was.
A ttorney Dusek-During that time period, I believe you would have heard then that they outlined
how they feet the property is unsafe and how it's in need of repair. Would you contest any
of the items that they have presented or do you wish to present evidence on your own behalf
in connection with those items?
Attorney Goodspeed-We certainly do not contest that the property is in need of repair. Our
question is how to repair it and how to finance it. With regards to safety, there is a danger
there. I submit that there may be a danger there for a long time no matter what steps are
taken until the permanent fix is rendered. I would say for the record that we did try to act
in conformity under short time constraint to put the fence in as I personally understood it
had been directed on reading the document.
Attorney Dusek-Do you wish to ask any questions or cross exam in any fashion Mr. Hotin
or Mr. Schoder at this point?
Attorney Goodspeed-1 would like to ask a few brief questions if 1 might.
Attorney Dusek-It's my recommendation to the Board that Mr. Goodspeed be allowed to do
SO.
Supervisor Borgos-Sure. Would those two gentlemen come near the microphone so we can
record your answers. If you rather you can sit at the other table swing another chair over
and just pass the mic back and forth it might be easier.
Attorney Goodspeed-Upon getting the minutes from last weeks meeting I realized that I had
not been present for about five minutes during that discussion with Mr. Hotin, and some of
the questions that I hod were answered as a result from reading those minutes. I guess what
I'm really wondering from Mr. Hotin is what was the extent of his involvement on behalf of
the Town prior to the collapse of the wall?
Mr. Hotin-1'm not sure if I understand your question. Do you mean what did I do in relation
to. . .
Attorney Goodspeed-What did you do in relationship to the wall were you there prior to the
collapse?
Mr. Hotin-1 was there during construction of the wall from the time it started till the time
it collapsed.
Attorney Goodspeed-Do you hove any estimates as to how many times you were there prior
to the walls collapse?
Mr. Hatin-I would have to say checking it at least once weekly.
Attorney Goodspeed-And what was your purpose of the checking? Were you required to do
so by a superior officer?
Mr. Hotin-No. 1 was doing it so that I was making sure the progress was taking place to get
compliance with the Zoning Ordinance.
Attorney Goodspeed-Had a permit been issued for this project?
Mr. Hotin-Not for the retaining walls.
-- Attorney Goodspeed-Had a permit been issued for excavation of the site?
Mr. Hotin-No.
Attorney Goodspeed-A three part permit hod not been issued?
Mr. Hotin-A permit was issued for a building permit for a home. The permit was issued in
three parts because we knew there was going to be zoning problems when he started the excavation
s�
we would not allow them to build a house until those zoning violations were taken care of
the permit was not to excavate.
Attorney Goodspeed-Did there come a time when you met the contractor who was doing the
excavation work and in turn the contractor who is doing the retaining work?
Mr. Hatin-I met the contractor yesterday.
Attorney Goodspeed-Was that Mr. Tinney?
Mr. Hatin-Mr. Timmes, I believe.
Attorney Goodspeed-And on how many occasions would you say you met him?
Mr. Hatin-Every time I was there if he wasn't working I met him when he was working, I don't —
know how many times.
Attorney Goodspeed-Did you discuss with Mr. Timms the progress of the construction of the
wall?
Mr. Hatin-I made sure that it was going along and basically asked him when he thought it
he'd be done.
Attorney Goodspeed-When you say that you made sure that it was going along can you tell
me what you mean by that?
Mr. Hatin-I just made sure that work was progressing on it so that it was being done not to
the state of any structural means.
Attorney Goodspeed-Did you see any visible problems and i understand that your not an engineer,
but in your opinion and in your municipal capacity did you see any problems prior too the
time that you learned that the wall had failed?
Mr. Hatin-There was a previous collapse of the wall, I don't remember when the time was,
but this is the second time it has collapsed.
Attorney Goodspeed-Was it the some wall?
Mr. Hatin-Same wall.
Attorney Goodspeed-That's all I have. I have just a couple questions again for Mr. Schoder.
On the issue of the fill these are questions to educate myself okay. When you talk about
a fill solution ore you talking essentially about returning the property to it's original position
as it was prior to commencement of excavation?
Mr. Schoder-To take that literally that would include reestablishing a ridge at the top of
the property with all slopes to the loke and off slopes to the road no that's not what I'm talking
about. I'm talking about dividing sufficient material on the face and I don't know how much
sufficient is, without a survey. On the face of both the east and the west wall it is such that
the massive material that you are placing and there is sufficient pressure and it is at on angle
of repose that will allow it and of itself to stay stable that it will preclude the ability or provide
lack of constraint if you will for the material that is native behind the wall.
Attorney Goodspeed-Would it be possible to have o partial fill as well as a retention of a
certain upper portion of the wall would that be a possible solution?
Mr. Schoder-That would be on engineer solution. I would say there is a possibility of that
yes; the type of retaining wall would be in question.
Attorney Goodspeed-Would you express any concerns about having heavy equipment of the
property not doing anything just driving through? We've talked about vibrations and levels
of vibrations is that sort of vibration we're talking about?
Mr. Schoder-Yes, potentially it depends on how heavy. When we define, "heavy equipment", _
typically as engineers we speak of anything including a rubber tire mounted backhoe up through
a D-10 dozer or even bigger than that.
Attorney Goodspeed-How about a looder or hauling dump truck?
Mr. Schoder-I would be concerned with any vibration on that site and 1 would think that it
would be prudent to get a better engineering judgement with a bit more data such as a survey
and to establish locations where the equipment would be in less jeopardy.
I
�1-
Attorney Goodspeed-So it would be difficult or it appears that you might hove difficulty with
bringing"fill into the area just conceivably it's going to be brought in on a looder or o dump
truck or something of that nature?
Mr. Schoder-As I stated the method that that material is placed would hove to be under review.
I would suggest strongly that would be an engineering review to protect the operator, to protect
the adjoining properties to the extent possible.
Attorney Goodspeed-And that would be a review that would begin obviously before anyone
set foot on there with the equipment?
Mr. Schoder-Yes.
Attorney Goodspeed-How long would you estimate that that engineering technical process
would take?
Mr. Schoder-I believe you could get a judgement rendered from a geo-technical engineer
firm one used to dealing with soils especially soils in this area of that type. If you put the
question in on emergency and if they have availability of staff to be able to response to your
question you could get a judgement, again it may not be a fine definition of a judgement that
would if anything. . .bit on the safe side within a week something to that effect.
Attorney Goodspeed-Again, I'm not going to hold you to this obviously would you hove any
estimate as to cost for the engineering process alone supposing that geological engineering
was from your firm?
Mr. Schoder-First of all, 1 could not respond to that particular project it would be a conflict
of interest as Town Engineers so that would not be something that would be within realm
of feasibility. Secondly, I'm not in the position to speak for other engineering firms as to
what their fees would be for that type of work.
Attorney Goodspeed-1 understand. Would it be possible to design and I don't know the words
for all of this to use the existing on site rocks the large rocks and to design a frame one by
using bendable metal and creating boxes to put those stones in and actually build a wall in
that manner to support the existing wall?
Mr. Schoder-There are any number of designs that could be incorporated, dollars not withstandin g,
to attempt to keep this wall where they are to keep the slopes where they are. Your talking
about on approach with bent metal that metal per so, 1 don't think is what your referring
too.
Attorney Goodspeed-I'm probably using the wrong phrase. I don't know if your familiar with
the Thirteenth Lake Road Project, would that be a viable possible solution for this circumstance?
Mr. Schoder-If viability is not govern by cost because I can't judge that. If your asking me
could a ... wall be built to retain the slopes that I saw today my answers would be yes.
Attorney Goodspeed-Returning just for a moment to the fill issue. Would you have to actually
do any drainage design if you put the fill in there regardless.of what the material was? Would
you have to set up a drainage system or would that just happened through the elements?
What would you do to control the runoff?
Mr. Schoder-The runoff, that's two different questions. The runoff would be. . .like I said
before appropriate erosion control is something that would be suitable to the Department
of Environmental Conservation to protect the lake, for that matter to protect the rood.
The designs for that type of slope and sediment control are numerous many different techniques
could be employed subject to reviewing agencies. Currently, I would assume that some sort
of o erosion control protection mandated at the time of this excavation or something to that
effect was pursued so it would be on outgrow to.that type of on approach.
Attorney Goodspeed-In terms of this erosion control system who would design that?
Mr. Schoder-An engineer would design that.
Attorney Goodspeed-When you calculated the days involved in a technical engineering standpoint
to ready the project for heavy equipment did you calculate in the erosion control design?
Mr. Schoder-Sir, my response to that question was qualified by several things. Firstly, the
amount of material that would need to be placed as I noted with Mrs. Monahan, I do not know
what how much material indeed would be required to do the job. I don't have o survey of
the site I could not even render my engineering judgement as to hnw many cubic yards of
material would have to be placed consequently my time frame would be very tenuous from
that point of view. Secondly, the level of attack if you would to the problem the time is
the question you can over kill things by leaving more material then cutting back on the engineering.
. .to the dbsign thereby increasing a safety factor that is also something that ploys into my
thinking. The question asked of me by Mr. Dusek, my response was qualified at that point
in time and still is qualified. I believe I said two to three weeks something to that effect
of construction to do the work there maybe on the outside three weeks work with engineering
to do on over kill type solution if you will to stabilize the slope that was the question I was
responding to at the time does that help?
Attorney Goodspeed-Yes, it does. I don't have any other questions thanks for your patience
because I certainly don't know any of the language or the technical requirements and I've
been up there quite a bit. Thank you. I have no further questions if the Board has any questions
I'm certainly available.
Councilman Monahan-I have a question Mr. Goodspeed. Did I understand you to say that the _
Flynn's have changed their residences several times awaiting to have this residence constructed?
Attorney Goodspeed-I don't want to speak for the them and please tap me on the back if I'm
incorrect, but it's my understanding that they were renting at one point hoping to build and
break ground and that the wall broke and that a lease expired at that time and they hove
to re-rent.
Councilman Monahan-It's my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong that sometime during
the time. . .on that property that this property was also listed with some real estate agents
in the area is that correct?
Attorney Goodspeed-I don't know the answer to that question. If you give me a moment I'll
ask the Flynn's. (Attorney Goodspeed took time to consult with his clients) Briefly, my
understanding is that for a short period of time in the summer prior to the collapse that it
was listed. My clients advise me that their rational for listing it for a few weeks was that
they were uncomfortable with the situation that existed in the neighborhood.
Councilman Monahan-I understand as part of their permission from D.E.C. to excavate without
getting mining permit was the fact that they were going to put a single family residence
on that piece of property?
Attorney Goodspeed-That's correct.
Councilman Monahan-I have a hard time trying to follow while your doing work under permit
so that you con place your own personal residence on that property and yet at the some time --
they felt free to p lace that property up for sale.
Attorney Goodspeed-I would certainly defer to Paul Dusek on a municipal question. But,
I suspect in terms of a legal analysis only the question may be, what's your purpose rather
than who is going to exercise that purpose of the property. My guess would be gut reaction
without any legal research that what the State Regulatory Agencies ore getting at is if your
going to-mine you need a mining permit and if your going to build a house you don't. I can
assure you that if the Flynn's thought that they were doing something improper they wouldn't
have done it they didn't proceed on that assumption they certainly didn't think they were
doing anything wrong. The some way one of the questions that come up lost week from Mr.
Kurosoko, was why was no engineer, involved initially. It's easy at this point in time to hind
site being twenty twenty to say; they shouldn't ever listed it with a broker because of D.E.C.
complications they should hove had an engineer or on attorney involved in it day one there
should have been site plan review etc. The problem is that my clients weren't professionals
they weren't engineers, attorneys, or anything of that nature they proceeded to rely on a
contract and they may have been and certainly was a mistake. But, in terms of the real estate
issue it was listed briefly and I don't think that they did it with the purpose of violating any
state lows.
Supervisor Borgos-I'll just ask our Attorney is there anything else we need to ask? The second
question is, should we kind of reach a decision at this moment or would you recommend on
Executive Session briefly?
Attorney Dusek-First of all, there are no other questions to answer the first question. The
second question as to making a decision, I think that's within the Board's jurisdiction. The
Board certainly does hove emergency powers under the Local Low at which if it makes certain
findings that there is a situation that is a clear and imminent danger to life, safety, health,
you con order the immediate repair of that situation you con order any interim measures
that you may deem appropriate. In addition to taking emergency action you con also make
a direction in accordance with the Local Law as to when you expect work to commence and
be completed in connection with the property. The Board should also consider in connection
with it's order whether the applicant or applicant's Attorney on their behalf has given the
Board good cause to in some fashion extend time or if you feel there isn't any good cause.
I would also draw the Board's attention to the fact that good cause or time extensions are
something that the Board can always consider the time or the applicant can always come
back and ask for a time extension at a later time, but the Board doesn't have to give it at
this time if the Board doesn't want, here again, I think you have to waive that as to whether
you feel there is good cause shown now and weigh the entire situation balancing perhaps the
threat to health and safety verses a need of time on behalf of the applicant. I would encourage
you to weigh the engineer testimony as well.
(Taped turned)
Supervisor Borgos-What I personally would like to see done maybe you can make some notes
and we'll see if we con get some consensus we hove to start somewhere. I figure the Board
wants to take some action we can start with that. I know we tried to do something last week,
but we had this hearing requirement so we're here. I'm personally not at all happy with the
fencing. I would like to see the fence on both the roadside and the lake side be installed by
noon tomorrow, that's my personal opinion and I don't think it's unreasonable I think there
are a few hours left tonight to find somebody. I think the fence post should be in perhaps
ten or twelve or fourteen feet apart.
Attorney Goodspeed-That's not possible, 1 don't mean to interrupt you.
Supervisor Borgos-I think it is.
Attorney Goodspeed-But, I'm dealing with solid stone in that area.
Supervisor Borgos-Let me just finish what I would like to see done. You don't have solid stone
it's gravel it's a hole punch of mixtures. If necessary because I've done it before you con
dig the holes out put the post in pack around the holes stabilize the post to put the fence
up certainly somebody could tear it down, but it won't fall down by pushing. Right now the
fence is leaning against bales of hay with bales of hay about a 11 foot tall against the bottom
they just fall right over that's on the roadside. On the lake side again, the fence post should
be driven in so we have a secure fence the rest of this situation becomes a little more difficult.
I'm very very concerned having visited the site again today with an engineer of the collapse
of the west wall in-particular I'm concerned with children climbing the east wall or falling
down from the top. I think somehow we have to beg the neighboring owners to permit us
to put a fence on the top. I'm so afraid some youngster and I understand there is one that
has just run away from home today I just heard it on the scanner before, but for any reasons
youngster out there wandering around looking for something to do their going to come in
from any side unknowingly or knowingly climb up and end up at the bottom covered with rubble.
I think it's not just dramatic I think it can happen. Mr. Schoder used the word "catastrophic"
earlier, I think that could possible happen. I don't know how to accomplish it with the neighbors,
but I think an attempt has to be made a serious attempt. I don't, there is any reason that
it has taken a week and there is at least one of the neighbors you indicate you haven't tried
to reach that bothers me.
Attorney Goodspeed-Can I interrupt in trying to address that because maybe I didn't before.
The neighbor that we did not contact until I visited the site with Mr. Morse and another engineer
I was unaware of the significance of the problem on the other wall. I specifically addressed
my attention to the west wall which as you note from being up there when you look at it.
Supervisor Borgos-How often have you been up there?
Attorney Goodspeed-I've been up there four times. When you look at it, it is the west wall
that creates the imminent fear. Perhaps we should have been on the phone trying to reach
those people as well, but on that situation we were dealing with a fear that somebody would
step off an existing area. With the western wall were dealing with that fear combined with
the fact that we thought there was a cave in possible even if we had somebody who was close
to there so we contracted the Smith's A ttorney's*and we still awaited a response from them.
With regard to the fence issue, my clients advise me that when they were up there trying
to put the fence in they were hitting rocks a lot. It may be easy to say Mr. Supervisor, that
it's easy to put a fence in by twelve noon tomorrow it's not if you have to pay for your Attorney's,
engineers, and buy the fence as well because you have to work at some point in the week.
Supervisor Borgos-I'm quite satisfied with the fence that there, it's not the greatest but it
certainly would do it's just a matter of putting in a secure post and attaching that fence to
the post. On the lake side where it seems to be undisturbed soil I would guess it would considerable
easier to drive the post.
Attorney Goodspeed-One question I would raise that I don't know the answer too, we were
advised by an engineer from the firm that we had retained and only because he had looked
SAY.
at some property up there that there might be a shoreline easement that would come into
play I don't know whether it would or not.
Supervisor Borgos-It certainly wouldn't be in the living room of the proposed house so if you
came back three feet off whatever roads there or five feet and put a fence you shouldn't
run into on easement.
Attorney Goodspeed-It's just very difficult to do something of significance by tomorrow at
noon the some way I think it was difficult to do something. . .
Supervisor Borgos-We gave you forty eight hours the last time and did nothing. What's been
done up there I personally could have done in less than 14 hour. A couple fence post were
put in and two pieces of snow fence were unrolled I hours work maybe by somebody of twelve,
fourteen years old easily could have accomplished that so there is no great effort that has
been done up there. To find somebody it may take like I say a little bit of work tonight or
first thing in the morning, but your not looking at more than a few hours to three hours of
work maximum to get a good deal of this accomplished. I'd be happy to see it started at noon
I threw that out as merely a beginning. Certainly by noon tomorrow there should be somebody
up there it may cost some money, but is it better to have $100.00 or $500.00 spent tomorrow
or find somebody at the bottom of the hill.
Attorney Goodspeed-I've got to be honest with you, I'm not convinced that we have the money
to even buy the fence with now.
Supervisor Borgos-You've already got the fence.
Attorney Goodspeed-To buy additional fence for the back portion of the lake. To hire somebody
to come in and drive those posts in and I'm not trying to stall or anything else. To retain
the engineers, I'm not going to tell you what the retainer fee was because I think that their
own personal business.
Supervisor Borgos-Sure, I don't want to know.
Attorney Goodspeed-But, they're spending some money here, they're spending some money
on me, and they've spent some money with their first lawyers. They had a hard time buying
the first fence, please take that at face value.
Supervisor Borgos-I personally don't like to waste anybody's money and I don't want anyone
to spend anymore than is necessary, but we hove to take care of life and safety. I would
ask the Town Attorney if it would be permissible for the Town to take that part of the set,
to fence in the property, not to go onto the property, not to try to stabilize the wall, but
to fence it in?
Attorney Dusek-The Town Board may by resolution authorize the building inspector to immediately
cause a repair of a unsafe situation. So 1 would read that to mean that it could also install
fencing and it provides that the expenses of the fencing will be charge against the real property.
Supervisor Borgos-I obviously have some concern. I think I would like to request someone
to move for on Executive Session.
Councilman Monahan-I think so before we start taking any type of that type of action.
Supervisor Borgos-That's why I wont to do this.
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 410, 1990,Introduced by Mrs. Marilyn Potenzo who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Mr. George Kurosoko:
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into Executive
Session regarding possible litigation.
Duly adopted this 16th day of July, 1990, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Kurosoko, Mrs. Potenza, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos _
NOES: None
ABSENT:Mr. Montesi
RESOLUTION TO RECONVENE
Sz,s
RESOLUTION NO. 411, 1990,lntroduced by Mr. George Kurosako who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Mrs. Betty Monahan:
RESOL VED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves bock into Regular
Session.
Duly adopted this 16th day of July, 1990, by the following vote:
A YES: Mr. Kurosoka, Mrs. Potenzo, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
NOES: None
ABSENT:Mr. Montesi
DISCUSSION HELD
Supervisor Borgos-We're out of Executive Session we just had on attorney/client relationship
discussion. We put together some notes and hove asked our A ttorney to draft a resolution
that would seem to resolve the immediate concerns. One thing that is not in the resolution,
but I would certainly ask if any of the property owners on either side ore here or con find
out about this it would be appreciated very much if in someway you could assist and permit
a fence to go up. This is a very difficult question to ask in giving up use of port of your property,
but were gravely concerned for the other alternative. Mr. Dusek would frame a resolution,
please.
Attorney Dusek-One question to the Board. The time frame for the work will stay in accordance
with what the Local Law provides there will not be any extensions it will run from the time
of the notice is that correct?
Supervisor Borgos-Correct.
RESOLUTION REGARDING UNSAFE AND DANGEROUS STRUCTURE ON FLYNN PROPERTY
ON MANNIS ROAD
RESOLUTION NO. 412, 1990,Introduced by Mrs. Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Mr. George Kurosoko:
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury in accordance with Local Low Number
3 of 1983 of the Town of Queensbury has held o hearing at which time Mr. and Mrs. Flynn
and their Attorney were afforded on opportunity to be heard and at which time in point of
fact the Attorney for Mr. and Mrs. Flynn was heard and afforded on opportunity not only
to speak on behalf of his clients but also afforded the opportunity to ask questions of Town
of Queensbury representatives including the Town Engineer retained by the Town, and
WHEREAS, as a result of that hearing the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury wishes
to take further action as the some is allowed by Local Low Number 3 of 1983
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury after hearing all of the evidence
presented at the hearing and after considering the reports mode by the Director of Building
and Codes finds that there is an unsafe and dangerous structure located upon the Flynn's property
and in accordance with its powers under the said Local Low desires to order the immediate
resolution of the unsafe and dangerous conditions and be it further
RESOL VED, that in the interim the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby directs
the Mr. and Mrs. Flynn to install fencing upon the property, such fencing to be located on
the road side as well as the lake side, such fencing to be secure fencing, secured by posts,
implanted in the ground or otherwise secured as the Flynn's and their engineers shall deem
appropriate, said fencing also to be placed on odjoining properties if permission of adjoining
landowners con be obtained and the fencing must be installed by order of the Town Board
no later than Five P.M. July 17, 1990 and it will be a further order of the Board that the fencing
shall be secured in a manner that will prohibit unauthorized trespass upon the property and
be it further
RESOLVED, that Mr. and Mrs. Flynn shall commence within thirty days after services of
the original notice of this hearing upon them construction work or other measures which will
correct the unsafe and dangerous condition upon the property and the some shall be completed
within sixty days thereafter and be it further
RESOLVED, that during the course of developing a design to resolve the unsafe condition
that engineering documents and other documents shall be transmitted to the Town engineers
Rist Frost for their review and comment on a weekly basis, and be it further
RESOLVED, that Mr. and Mrs. Flynn are hereby requested to obtain a letter from their engineers
authorizing the Town Engineers of the Town of Queensbury to so review the plans and also
in the event that for any reason o failure to implement the construction phases of the process
is not undertaken that the plans may be used as the Town Board shall desire and indicate
in a later meeting and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby does make a sincere request that the adjoining londowne
will consider allowing the fence to be placed upon their properties to assist in making the
property to consider making the unsafe condition safer, and be it further
RESOLVED, the first contact between the engineers shall occur tomorrow, July 17, 1990 ane,
thereafter be maintained on a weekly basis.
Duly adopted this 16th day of July, 1990, by the following vote:
A YES: Mr. Kurosoko, Mrs. Potenza, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
NOES: None
ABSENT:Mr. Montesi
DISCUSSION HELD
Attorney Goodspeed-On the requirement for the completion of the fence my question is are
we assuming that permission is granted by the adjacent owners or not because it is going
to take more time if were going up over the hill.
Supervisor Borgos-Very specifically I think I heard our engineer say; do not construct at the
edge of that property line.
Attorney Goodspeed-Right.
Supervisor Borgos-Because that would be a serious problem.
Attorney Goodspeed-All I'm asking is if we leave here tonight and the neighbors approach
my clients and say; put the fence on my property it may take longer than the seventeenth
at 5:00 P.M.., to do the side.
Supervisor Borgos-I think the Board would be happy if the lake side and the rood side are
done tomorrow at five. I would be thrilled if your able to negotiate with the neighbors to
get a fence sufficiently for back from the edge of that property from the edge of that slope.
Please, do not try to build the fence right close even within six or eight feet I've been advised
that is not safe. Thank you for your patience sorry that this is such a problem we certainly
hope that everyone is able to get through this as quickly as possible.
Attorney Goodspeed-Thank you very much.
Supervisor Borgos-Your welcome.
HEARING MCDONALD PROPERTY
Dave Hotin, Director of Building and Code Enforcement-The McDonald property, 1 don't believe
Mrs. Switzer is here tonight who is the heir to the property that we've dealt with and so for
has been served with notice to date.
Supervisor Borgos-Just refresh our memory.
Mr. Hatin-This is the one on Indiana Avenue right at the corner of Central where we had
the growing mold and mildew. To date, the Board is aware of what has transpired the building
was boarded up it was cleaned out we just spent $300.00 to do that. As of this date to my
knowledge Mrs. Switzer has not contacted me. I've had no contact with the Attorney for
the estate and I assume that nothing else has been done nor any intentions to do anything
because nobody is here. They were notified and served the Attorney was served and also
Mrs. Switzer, I believe.
Councilman Monahan-Did you get a certified receipt returned?
Mr. Hotin-I don't know if Paul has got that in his file or not, I don't have it in mine.
Attorney Dusek-I see copies of an affidavit of service, but it looks like Bert might has served
SQ 7.
Dave, but mine are not signed.
Mr. Hatin-I hove copies.
Councilman Monohon-Were they sent by certified mail return receipt requested or were they
hand delivered.
Mr. Hatin-Maybe this will address it. On May 22nd, copies were hand delivered to Dennis
Trantino, Richard McDonald at his residence at Indiana Avenue, he's a brother that lives right
across the street and a David McDonald at his residence on Sherman Island so two of the
heirs plus the Attorney were served.
Councilman Monahan-Did they sign for them?
Mr. Hatin-I have a letter signed here by Vic Lefebvre. They were hand delivered to him so
I'm assuming they were given to them whether they signed for them or not I don't know.
Councilman Monahan-That's what I was wondering if they were given to the persons involved
or if they were just left or what.
Mr. Hatin-This was on the twenty second, I believe there was another resolution after the
twenty second.
Supervisor Borgos-What is your proposed next course of action? What would you like this
Board to do?
Mr. Hatin-I guess we take it to the next step which is demolition if this Board wants to do
that.
Supervisor Borgos-What harm is it causing to anyone in its present boarded up state?
Mr. Hotin-At this time none. We still end up with rodent infestation because I didn't wont
to go ahead and spend the money for that and then find out the Town Board is going to demolish
it next week. If you want to leave it set like that for a period of time. . .
Supervisor Borgos-George, that's in your ward would you have time in the day or so to meet
with Dave and take a look of it from the outside anyway?
Councilman Kurosaka-Probobly, yeah.
Supervisor Borgos-We hove a meeting again next Monday which is o special meeting which
we will also do other business we also meet next week Tuesday and Wednesday so we'll just
hold it. I recommend that George meet with Dave and handle it and we'll look at some action
next Monday once we get George's opinion also.
Discussion held on Toomey property (Sunnyside Pavilion) and Grundborg property (Division
Road). It was noted that a hearing will be held on August 6th, 1990 for both properties.
OPEN FORUM
NO PUBLIC COMMENT
RESOL UTIONS
(Resolution to transfer funds pulling from agenda to be brought up at a later date)
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ADVERTISEMENT OF BIDS FOR THE ROOF REPLACEMENT
FOR THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY COURT AND HIGHWAY OFFICE BUILDING
RESOLUTION NO. 413, 1990,lntroduced by Mrs. Marilyn Potenzo who moved for its odoption,
seconded by Mr. George Kurosoko:
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is desirous of contracting for doing
all work necessary and furnishing all materials necessary for the installation of a new roof
on the Town of Queensbury Court and Highway Office Building, 531 Bay Road, Queensbury,
New York, as more specifically identified in the proposed contract documents submitted
to this meeting, and in possession of the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury, and
WHEREAS, pursuant to Section 103 of the General Municipal Low, it is necessary to advertise
for bids and award the said proposed contract to the lowest responsible bidder meeting New
York State Statutory Requirements, and the requirements set forth in the bid documents
presented at this meeting,
soa-
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
r
RESOLVED, that on advertisement for bids for doing all work necessary and furnishing oil
materials necessary for the installation of a new roof on the Town of Queensbury Court and
Highway Office Building, 531 Bay Road, Queensbury, New York, pursuant to the terms of
the said proposed bid documents, be published in the official newspaper for the Town of Queensbur
and that such advertisement indicate that bids will be received at the Office of the Town
Clerk of the Town of Queensbury, at any time, until, but not later than, August 13, 1990, at
2:00 p.m., and that the bids will be publicly opened and read at 2:05 p.m., by the Town Clerk
of the Town of Queensbury, and such advertisement shall indicate that the Town Board of
the Town of Queensbury sholl hove the right, at its discretion, to reject all bids and re-advertise
for new bids as provided by the lows of the State of New York, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that Miss Dorleen Dougher, Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury, is hereby
authorized to open all bids received at the Office of the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury,
at 2:05 p.m., August 13, 1990, read the some aloud, and make record of the some as is customarily
done, and present the bids to the next regular or special meeting of the Town Board of the
Town of Queensbury, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that the bidding documents indicate that the work sholl be substantially completed
no later than 45 days following notice of award, and be finally complete no later than on
additional 45 days.
Duly adopted this 16th day of July, 1990, by the following vote:
A YES: Mr. Kurosoko, Mrs. Potenzo, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
NOES: None
ABSENT:Mr. Montesi
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ADVERTISEMENT OF BIDS FOR THE REMOVAL AND DISPOSAL
OF WASTE TIRES FROM TOWN OF QUEENSBUR Y - CITY OF GLENS FALLS LANDFILL
RESOLUTION NO. 414, 1990 Introduced by Mrs. Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption, —
seconded by Mr. George Kurosoko:
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is desirous of contracting for doing
all work necessary and furnishing any equipment necessary for the removal and disposal of
waste tires from the Town of Queensbury-City of Glens Falls Landfill on Ridge Rood, Queensbury,
New York, as more specifically identified in the proposed contract documents submitted
to this meeting, and in possession of the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury, and
WHEREAS, pursuant to Section 103 of the General Municipal Low, it is necessary to advertise
for bids and award the said proposed contract to the lowest responsible bidder meeting New
York State Statutory Requirements, and the requirements set forth in the bid documents
presented at this meeting,
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, that on advertisement for bids for doing all work necessary and furnishing any
equipment necessary for the removal and disposal of waste tires from the Town of Queensbury-Cit
of Glens Falls Landfill, Ridge Rood, Queensbury, New York, pursuant to the terms of the
said proposed bid documents, be published in the official newspaper for the Town of Queensbury
and that such advertisement indicate that bids will be received at the Office of the Town
Clerk of the Town of Queensbury, at any time, until, but not later than, August 6th, 1990,
at 2:00 p.m., and that the bids will be publicly opened and read at 2:05 p.m., by the Town
Clerk of the Town of Queensbury, and such advertisement shall indicate that the Town Board
of the Town of Queensbury shall hove the right, at its discretion, to reject all bids and re-odv is(
for new bids as provided by the laws of the State of New York, and
BE IT FUR THER,
RESOLVED, that Miss Dorleen Dougher, Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury, is hereby
authorized to open all bids received at the office of the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury,
of 2:05 p.m., August 6th, 1990, read the some aloud, and make record of the some as is customarily
done, and present the bids to the next regular or special meeting of the Town Board of the
S09.
Town of Queensbury.
Duly adopted this 16th day of July, 1990, by the following vote:
A YES: Mr. Kurosoko, Mrs. Potenzo, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
NOES: None
ABSENT:Mr. Montesi
RESOLUTION AMENDING RESOLUTION NO. 243, 1990 REGARDING DESIGNATION OF
POLLING PLACES IN THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY
RESOLUTION NO. 415, 1990 Introduced Mrs. Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Mrs. Marilyn Potenzo:
WHEREAS, pursuant to Article 4-104 of the New York State Election Law, the Town Board
of the Town of Queensbury must submit to the Warren County Board of Elections o listing
of the polling places in the Town of Queensbury in each Election District in which elections
and registrations may be held, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, pursuant to resolution no.: 243, doted
April 16, 1990, the Town Board designated the respective polling places in the districts, and
WHEREAS, said resolution designated the Queensbury Central Firehouse as the location for
Ward 2, Election District 3, and since said designation, the Queensbury Central Firehouse
has moved from Foster Avenue to Lafayette Street,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOL VED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury amend resolution 243, 1990,
to the extent that the location for Word 2, Election District 3, is hereby designated as the
Queensbury Central Firehouse, on Lafayette Street, Town of Queensbury, and
BE IT FURTHER, .
RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk forward o copy of this resolution to the Warren County
Board of Elections.
Duly adopted this 16th day of July, 1990, by the following vote:
A YES: Mr. Kurosako, Mrs. Potenzo, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
NOES: None
ABSENT:Mr. Montesi
(Resolution Agreement KVS Information pulled from agenda to be brought up at a later dote)
RESOLUTION REVISING "PETITION FOR A CHANGE OF ZONE" FORM
RESOLUTION NO. 416, 1990 Introduced by Mrs. Marilyn Potenzo who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Mrs. Betty Monahan:
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury adopted a form for the purposes of
assisting the Town Board in its review of applications for rezoning in the Town of Queensbury,
by resolution #550, doted December 13, 1988, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board approved certain revisions to said form by resolution #41, dated
January l0, 1989 and resolution #66, dated January 22, 1990, and
WHEREAS, the Senior Planner for the Town of Queensbury, Mrs. Lee York, has recommended
on additional amendment to said form, such amendment being that on Authorization to Act
as Agent form be attached,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOL VED, that the amended form, as presented at this meeting, is hereby adopted for the
purposes of assisting the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury in its review of rezoning
in the Town of Queensbury.
Duly adopted this 16th day of July, 1990, by the following vote:
A YES: Mr. Kurosako, Mrs. Potenza, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
NOES: None
ABSENT:Mr. Montesi
RESOLUTION TO TRANSFER FUNDS
RESOLUTION NO. 417, 1990 Introduced by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Mrs. Betty Monahan:
WHEREAS, certain departments have requested transfers of funds, and
WHEREAS, said requests hove been approved by the Town of Queensbury Accounting Office
and the Chief Fiscal Officer,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the funds be transferred as listed below:
TOWN ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
FROM TO AMOUNT
A 115 1420 193 A 115 1420 440 $7,500.00
(Paralegal, PT) (Miscellaneous Cont.)
A 115 1420 201 A 115 1420 406 $314.00
(Office Equipment) (Service Contracts & Warranties)
Duly adopted this 16th day of July, 1990, by the following vote:
A YES: Mr. Kurosoko, Mrs. Potenza, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
NOES: None
ABSENT:Mr. Montesi
RESOLUTION TO RETAIN SERVICES OF NEW YORK FIRE AND SIGNAL
RESOLUTION NO. 418, 1990 Introduced by Mrs. Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza:
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby retains New York Fire
and Signal for the purposes of installing a security system at the Court Justice Building located
at 81 Glenwood Avenue, Queensbury, New York 12804, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOL VED, that the amount of $4,390.00 will be paid from the Justice Building Miscellaneous
Contractual Account #A-14-5-1624-444.
Duly adopted this 16th day of July, 1990, by the following vote:
A YES: Mr. Kurosoko, Mrs. Potenza, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
NOES: None
ABSENT:Mr. Montesi
RESOLUTION TO TRANSFER FUNDS
RESOLUTIONS NO. 419, 1990 Introduced by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Mrs. Betty Monahan:
RESOLVED, that the following funds will be transferred from Account #A23-59950-910 (H-37
Town Office Building Account) to A-145-1624-444 (Justice Building Miscellaneous Contractual
Account) in the amount of $12,000.00
Duly adopted this 16th day of July, 1990, by the following vote:
A YES: Mr. Kurosoko, Mrs. Potenzo, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos
NOES: None
ABSENT:Mr. Montesi
COMMUNICATIONS
Town Clerk-(Letter from D.O.T. on file Clerk's Office) Noted that o study was done by Deportme
of Tronsportotion on Glenwood Avenue and they will not change the speed limit.
Supervisor Borgos-Hos written o letter to Dr. Wiswoll noting his concern.
On motion, the meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULL Y SUBMITTED,
Miss Dorleen M. Dougher
Town Clerk
Town of Queensbury