1992-09-28
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING
SEPTEMBER 28, 1992
7:04 P.M.
MTG#94
RES#521-535
BH #23
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
Supervisor Michel Brandt
Councilman Pliney Tucker
Councilman Nick Caimano
Councilman Susan Goetz
Councilman Betty Monahan
TOWN ATTORNEY
Paul Dusek
TOWN OFFICIALS
Mike Shaw, Ralph VanDusen, Kathleen Kathe
PRESS
G.F. Post Star
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY COUNCILMAN CAIMANO
RESOLUTION ENTERING QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH
RESOLUTION NO. 521, 92
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns Regular Session and enters
into Queensbury Board of Health.
Duly adopted this 28th day of September, 1992, by the following vote:
All Those In Favor: Ayes
All Those Opposed: None
Absent: None
QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH
PUBLIC HEARING MCGOVERN & FURLONG SEPTIC VARIANCE
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NOTICE SHOWN
Councilman Goetz-We have a letter from David Hatin asking us to table this because they have an
application before the Zoning Board.
Supervisor Brandt-We might as well hold the public hearing. Is there someone hear to speak to us on the
septic variance? This is a public hearing is there anyone here to speak on it? It is our understanding to not
do anything with this matter at this time because it will probably be going to the Zoning Board of Appeals
next and depending on what they do this matter will come back to us to act, it may come back to us it may
not. Anyone to speak on it, I'll close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
RESOLUTION TO ADJOURN BOARD OF HEALTH
RESOLUTION NO. 23, 92
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from the Queensbury
Board of Health and moves back into the Queensbury Town Board.
Duly adopted this 28th day of September, 1992, by the following vote:
All Those In Favor: Ayes
All Those Opposed: None
Absent: None
QUEENSBURY TOWN BOARD
PUBLIC HEARINGS SEWER VARIANCE APPLICATIONS - BLAKE, MARTENS,
SUTTON/(BACKON), MIHINDU & MAIN
JOSEPH C. MININDU SEWER VARIANCE
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NOTICE SHOWN
Supervisor Brandt-Is there anyone here to speak on this matter?
Councilman Tucker-I have a question. Mike, is there three estimates?
Mike Shaw, Wastewater Director-There are not three estimates because these were filed when the public
hearing was set prior to that recent change, okay.
Councilman Tucker-This guy has got an estimate of $3,500.00 that's about $1,400.00 or $1,500.00 more
than everybody else has been paying.
Mike Shaw-That's right through a registered plumber, I understand that. That could be very close because
he has a couple of circumstances in there that is going to make his connection more...than everybody else.
Councilman Caimano-Before we go any further can I ask a question here? These are listed as public
hearings, but all of these had a public hearing on September 14th.
Councilman Monahan-That's the date we set the public hearing.
Councilman Caimano-It says the public hearing was given in the official newspaper of the Town of
Queensbury and a public hearing was held in connection with the variance request of September 14th. I
know what you said, I'm just saying.
Attorney Dusek-That's an error, it should have been the 28th.
Councilman Caimano- Thank you.
Supervisor Brandt-Mike, you want to tell us about this one.
Mr. Shaw-Well, basically I have not made any recommendations on this gentlemen. Apparently from the
way, I read this you have the same application I have it looks like he's claiming it's beyond his expense. I
have no way to determine if he could afford it or not. The statement of the septic system currently working
is in adjacent lot and should work for at least three or four more years we find no reason not to believe that.
Councilman Goetz-I don't think it qualifies for a variance myself. It's right in the middle of where
everybody else is hooked up.
Mr. Shaw-As far as people in that area, I had a few people in that area express their concerns to me and I'm
surprised nobody is here tonight. They actually feel this gentlemen should be hooking up because people in
that area have complied and spent the money and certainly they feel that Dr. Mihindu certainly could afford
it.
Councilman Monahan-Mike, when you talked to other people in the area did they say how much it's cost
them to connect up their system?
Mr. Shaw-On Garrison Road some people were in the $3,000.00 range.
Councilman Monahan-Is the problem the high water table or is there rock there or what?
Mr. Shaw-Where Mr. Mihindu is possible not extremely, but there is a possible high water table. I guess he
has some plumbing fixtures downstairs that the...has separated from what I understand and would make his
connection quite a bit lower than everybody else.
Councilman Monahan-But, that is not due to the physical character of the property then. I mean what he's
got inside his house, I don't see as really our concern. We're only concerned with what's outside that would
be making like the physical obstructions or that type of thing.
Mr. Shaw-I'm not aware of any of that.
Councilman Monahan-He really didn't state any. I would say frankly, I don't know how everybody else
feels, but before I consider this further I would want him to get a couple more estimates.
Councilman Tucker-I want him to hookup.
Councilman Goetz-I want him to hookup.
Councilman Monahan-Or hookup one way or the other.
Councilman Caimano-I'll move that we disapprove the variance.
Councilman Goetz-I'll second it.
Supervisor Brandt-Motion made and seconded, any discussion? Is it proper while we're having a public
hearing to move these one at a time.
Attorney Dusek -You should technically close the public hearing then the motion is proper.
Supervisor Brandt-Is there anyone else to speak on this application? I'm going to close the public hearing
and accept your motion and second.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
RESOLUTION DISAPPROVING VARIANCE FROM REQUIRED SEWER CONNECTIONS
FOR DR. JOSEPH C. MIHINDU
RESOLUTION NO. 522, 92
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
Councilman Caimano-I'll move that we disapprove the variance.
Councilman Goetz-I'll second it.
Supervisor Brandt-I'm going to close the public hearing and accept your motion and second. Any further
discussion.
Duly adopted this 28th day of September, 1992, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mr.
Brandt
Noes: None
Absent:None
EST ATE OF ELEANOR BACKON - SEWER VARIANCE
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NOTICE SHOWN
Town Clerk, Dougher-I have a letter from the family of Eleanor Backon. Town Clerk read the following
letter. I received your communication regarding the notice of a public hearing in conjunction with a
request for a waiver or variance of sewer connection requirements. Neither my sister nor I can attend this
hearing. However, I am requesting you consider the circumstances which handicapped my mother from
connecting into the Town of Queensbury Sewer System for 337 Ridge Street. Although I am not present, I
know you will inform us of your decision knowing the Town Board of Queensbury will act in the best
interests and fairness of all concerned. Many thanks for your cooperation. Judith Martens, co-executrix
Estate of Eleanor S. Backon
Councilman Goetz-I have received a letter on the subject should I read that into the record.
Town Clerk, Dougher-Yes.
Councilman Goetz-This is from Barbara Pallozzi, 341 Ridge Road. As I will not be able to attend the
September 28, 1992 public hearing concerning a variance for sewer connection at 337 Ridge Road, I ask
that the Town Board consider the following: Prior to installation of any sewer connections for Eleanor
Backon's properties at 333,335,337 and 339 Ridge Road, the contractor recommended the installation of a
larger pipe running up the driveway between her properties, and then to connect each house into that larger
pipe. Mrs. Backon declined to follow the recommendations of her contractor. After sale of 335 Ridge
Road, and at about the same time as connections were being made to 333 and 339 Ridge Road, Mrs.
Backon sought to use my premises for excavation and/or installation of a sewer for 337 Ridge Road. We
were advised that our property "should" be restored to its original condition, but no guarantees were offered
that our property "would" be restored to its original condition. In light of her refusal to guarantee
restoration, we refused to allow the use of any portion of our premises for a sewer connection to the
Backon property. Additionally, this particular property is in very poor physical condition and the house is
situated on an exceptionally small lot --only 7000 square feet. As at least one of the Backon properties had
raw sewage in its basement. I would ask that the Town Board not even consider a variance for this
property unless and until it can be proven that its septic system is in proper working order and that no
portion of that system is leaching onto any adjoining property.
Supervisor Brandt-Is there anyone here to speak on this situation?
Councilman Caimano-Mike do you have anything?
Mr. Shaw-Not really. What she is stating just so you understand Eleanor Backon used to own four houses
there, two which set behind each other, one has been previously sold that sets behind. She is apparently
looking for a variance for the house that she still owns set behind the other house.
Councilman Monahan-Mike aren't we still right back, I remember when Ron Montesi was a Councilman
from that area he investigated it very thoroughly so if I'm incorrect in my remembrance please correct me.
But, every time that she came to try and get a variance we said you control both of those properties you can
do this and she was using non-valid arguments because she was the owner of both of them so she is the one
who has really created the hardship on herself.
Councilman Goetz-Ron is here, Ron do you remember anything about this can you tell us about this.
Ronald Montesi, Queensbury-We weren't very popular with Mrs. Backon.
Councilman Goetz-I remember that.
Mr. Montesi-She originally sold one house the first offour. When she sold that house it was something
with the water, I remember they had to run a water line and she wouldn't allow them to run a water line
down the backside of the property it had to go down the driveway. It got very very complicated and she
got very very hard nose about it, but I think what Mrs. Monahan said is true that all of the things she was
using as an argument were in her control she still, I think the estate still owns the three homes. There was a
very bad septic problem in one of the homes if you want to call it raw sewage there was in one of the
basements. But, basically I really see no need for this variance it's something that has to be done. The final
straw was that she didn't want to cut her driveway up that was the final one. We said, gee you have the
right to go right down the middle of the driveway for all four or three homes and she said she would never
cut her driveway up. It was a battle for about a year and a half.
Councilman Tucker-Then the dog took over.
Mr. Montesi-And then the dog came and then she got a lot of public sympathy with the dog.
Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else that has any input for us? Then I'll accept the motion to close the pubic
hearing on this matter.
Attorney Dusek-It might be a good idea when you state your motion to disapprove or approve whatever the
boards choice is just briefly state why it is.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
RESOLUTION DISAPPROVING VARIANCE FROM REQUIRED SEWER CONNECTIONS FOR MS.
JUDITH A. MARTENS AND MS. BELLE B. SUTTON, CO-EXECUTRICES OF THE ESTATE OF
MS. ELEANOR S. BACKON
RESOLUTION NO. 523, 92
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
Councilman Caimano-I'll move the disapproval in that the applicant has not shown any reasons to grant the
variance and that the applicant has not shown any hardship.
Duly adopted this 28th day of September, 1992, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mr.
Brandt
Noes: None
Absent:None
DISCUSSION HELD AFTER VOTE
Attorney Dusek-I think what your meaning to say is that it's self-created.
Councilman Caimano-We can go on forever.
Attorney Dusek-Okay.
Councilman Monahan-Noted if there is still raw sewage in one of those buildings or if it's still creating it,
think it's something the board has to look into.
Mr. Shaw-Noted that currently all three house that she owns are vacant.
Councilman Monahan-Noted that if they were vacant then nothing is being created.
ROBERT BLAKE - SEWER VARIANCE
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NOTICE SHOWN
Supervisor Brandt-Is there anyone here to speak on behalf of the Blake proposal, Mike can you fill us in.
Mr. Shaw-Robert Blake he is the person who bought a house off of Eleanor Backon. Originally Eleanor
Backon's estate was four, he bought a house in back of 337 Ridge, I believe. Ron briefly said that he had
trouble with his water line and wanted to put a water line and have an easement for a sewer line from
Eleanor because his water was in an immediate situation he used his sewer easement to put a water line
down and because of health code it has to have a lO'separation there wasn't enough room to put a sewer line
down that side of the house and Eleanor would not grant him another easement to go down the driveway.
Councilman Tucker-Maybe her estate will this time.
Mr. Shaw- I don't know if he has followed up on the estate to see if he could get the permission to go down
the driveway.
Supervisor Brandt-What size lot does he have and what kind of soils, what kind of system?
Mr. Shaw-He is very high on Ridge Road, if you know where Eleanor Backon's property is.
Councilman Goetz-It's near Brain Harrison's.
Mr. Shaw-I would guess it's cobblestone type soil. He currently has a cess pool there now. Dave Hatin and
I were on premises and he currently has a working cess pool.
Supervisor Brandt-I'm not sure what a cess pool really is.
Mr. Shaw-In today's standards you have a septic tank and then you have a leach field. A cess pool in the
olden days there was no separation between septic tanks for solids and a leach field.
Supervisor Brandt-It seems to be working?
Mr. Shaw-It's working as far as we can determine. Nobody dug the thing up to prove it, but otherwise it
was not visible...
Councilman Goetz-Paul did you make any recommendations as to what we can give people, we can
stipulate that until there septic system fails what was that all about?
Attorney Dusek-I think and under the variance criteria set forth in the law if it's a permanent obstruction or
if there are physical obstructions or there is distance of greater than 250' feet you can grant them a
permanent variance. If, however, they've got a cost problem you could grant them a temporary variance up
to two years and that maybe something you might want to consider here in light of the fact that maybe he
could use the time to work with the estate and see if they could all resolve their problem together.
Councilman Caimano-Except they did not ask for a variance due to cost, they asked for the same reason as
the other property did. Since both of them have the same problem that they could have done this before, I
don't see how we can approve this while we disapproved the other.
Councilman Monahan-He couldn't have done it.
Councilman Caimano- That's right he wasn't here.
Councilman Monahan-Not only that, but he had to use his easement for the water line and he couldn't get
the sewer easement. Paul, I have a question when I looked at these requirements here. Time extension not
more than two years is that two years from the date they were given to hookup or is that two years from the
date they apply for relief?
Attorney Dusek-I think it's the date they apply for relief because it's possible to get extensions as well on
that time. You don't have to go two years, I'm mean you could go six months, nine months.
Supervisor Brandt-Right now he has no right away to put a sewer in.
Councilman Monahan-Unless he can get one from the estate. I think maybe we ought to give him time
enough to see if he can get one from the estate and then comeback. If he can't get one with a letter saying
they won't give it to him, I mean a letter from the executors of the estate.
Councilman Caimano-Do you care about that?
Councilman Tucker-No.
Mr. Montesi-Mike, they are going to have to share the same driveway all four homes. If you mandate that
the three homes are not granted a variance you somehow should tie his denial if you will to the other, it's
going to be cost effective if they have to run it down the driveway why not have a fourth guy to share that
cost.
Supervisor Brandt-Makes sense.
Mr. Montesi -You can't exclude him if your going to make the other three do it.
Councilman Monahan-Except we can't make him do something that he doesn't have control over. I mean
we can only open the way and hope the executors of the estate will be cooperative.
Mr. Shaw-Let me shed a little light on something that Ron just said. There is four parcels there, three of
them are owned by the estate and one by Robert Blake. The two that are out in front are connected which
are owned by Eleanor's estate and they are not connected through the driveway so what Ron is saying at
this time would not be feasible.
Councilman Monahan-What about these other two Mr. Blake's and the one that we just denied could they
share the same sewer?
Mr. Shaw-Certainly they can, I don't think the Town wants to get involved in people sharing the same
sewer line on private property.
Councilman Monahan-I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that a matter of practicality could they share
the same sewer line going up through.
Mr. Shaw-As long as they agree upon it.
Councilman Goetz-Don't you think he has to find out from the estate what he can do.
Mr. Shaw-I would think we need to do that.
Councilman Goetz-I think we should table it and give him some time.
Councilman Monahan-He's got sixty days. We don't have to render a decision for sixty days and
communicate with him.
Councilman Tucker-Let me ask you a question ladies.
Councilman Monahan-Yes, sir.
Councilman Tucker-What happens if he doesn't get an okay from the estate and he's on a septic system and
everybody else over there has got to get on the sewer what are you going to do then?
Councilman Monahan-But, he has no way to get on the sewer unless he can get an easement from that
estate. He actually physically as I understand it has no way to reach that sewer line the way the setup is
there right now.
Councilman Caimano- Is that right?
Mr. Shaw-That's correct.
Councilman Goetz-I just think we'll make our decision at that time that we find out about the easement.
Councilman Tucker-He should of made the decision before we bought the house.
Councilman Monahan-That maybe, but we had a lot of record out there available for sale.
Supervisor Brandt -How could you tie a variance to the sale of a adjoining piece of property?
Attorney Dusek-How could you tie...
Supervisor Brandt-His variance to the sale of the other property that needs a sewer line?
Councilman Monahan-What your saying that someway before that piece of property could be sold they
would have to grant...
Attorney Dusek-They could do it, but I don't know that there's anyway that we could mandate it. Except
that they are going to be required to come up with a sewer hookup for that other house anyway.
Supervisor Brandt -We could have ours expire at that time which would give them a hell of a lot of
incentive to move in that direction wouldn't it?
Attorney Dusek-The one house you didn't give them anything anyway.
Supervisor Brandt-Right.
Attorney Dusek-So they would have to hookup.
Supervisor Brandt -So they've got to hookup and as they hookup this one expires.
Councilman Monahan-But, if they still want to be miserable and not give them an easement he's out there
with no recourse he doesn't have a recourse. In which, of course, a case of law, I can imagine what the
verdict would be.
Attorney Dusek-That was my original suggestion to you was you could consider like say, a six month to
him which means at the end of six months he still has to hookup, but that gives him the time to deal with
the estate and see if he can't work something out with the estate.
Supervisor Brandt-How about considering that as a board.
Councilman Monahan-You don't have to give him six months you can give him less.
Councilman Goetz-We have sixty days.
Councilman Caimano-We have a sixty day window we can leave the public hearing open.
Councilman Monahan-Yeah.
Councilman Caimano-Hold it off for sixty days and come back at it again and see what happens then.
Councilman Monahan-But, in the mean time communicate with him with Mike or with Paul one or the
other and communicate with him that he needs to try to get the easement from the estate.
Mr. Shaw-The estate from what, I understand they are trying to sell it the people currently the executors of
the estate are in Long Island and it's really getting to be a pain in the butt to travel back and forth.
Councilman Monahan-But, now they know they've got to put the sewer line into that one house that they
are trying to sell, the other two are in. At the same time hopefully he may have to give them a few bucks,
he can get an easement from them we have to find out.
Supervisor Brandt-How can we put this on our calendar so it comes back up in sixty days or so that we
remember we have to do something with it.
Councilman Caimano-Do you have a mechanism in which you can do that.
Attorney Dusek-The Town Clerk can bring it back to your agenda.
Councilman Caimano-And we don't need to do anything because we have the sixty day window.
Councilman Monahan-Except communicate with the gentlemen.
Councilman Caimano-I mean, we don't have to do anything.
Attorney Dusek-I think, I would recommend you consider whether or not you want to leave the public
hearing open or close it because if you leave it open we're going to have to renotify everybody the next
time it comes up. If you close it then all we have to do is contact.
Councilman Caimano- Mr. Blake.
Attorney Dusek-Is that all you did on this anyway.
Town Clerk, Dougher-Yes.
Attorney Dusek-Okay, then I guess it doesn't really matter.
Councilman Monahan-I think we ought to leave it open because we'll have new information coming in.
Councilman Caimano-I think so too.
Supervisor Brandt-We'll leave it opened.
PUBLIC HEARING TO REMAIN OPENED
BRUCE & HERMANETTE MAIN - SEWER VARIANCE
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NOTICE SHOWN
Supervisor Brandt-I'll declare this public hearing opened. Is there anyone here to speak on this matter?
Councilman Goetz-We had a letter, I think it came in today saying, that the Mains are going to be moving
from the house due to ill health moving out of the area.
Supervisor Brandt-Do you want to read that into the record.
Councilman Goetz-This firm represents Christian Mattison a daughter of Mr. & Mrs. Main. Due to Mrs.
Main's serious health problems which involved emergency hospitalization on at least four occasions in the
last two months the Mains will be moving out of their long time residence and will live with Ms. Mattison
in the Town of Mendon, New York. As a result of that move 31 Everts Avenue will be temporarily vacant
it will be actively marketed for sale or lease. If those efforts are successful an immediate connection to the
Town's sewer line will be scheduled. Until occupancy is arranged the premises will not cause any health
hazards. Mr. & Mrs. Main are retired and live on a limited fixed income. Mrs. Main's recent difficulties
has also added significantly to their cost. They are quite frankly, at this time unable to afford to pay the
cost of a sewer connection their scheduled moving expenses and uninsured health care charges. Therefore,
I ask that you delay any order directing sewer connection until such time as new occupancy or sale of the
property can be arranged. It is signed, Richard S. Mayberry.
Councilman Caimano-Can we tie the hookup to the sale?
Attorney Dusek -You could grant an extension of time not to exceed two years, but said extension to expire
upon the sale of the residence. Then that way as soon as the residence is sold that mean's they have to put
in the sewer.
Mr. Shaw-Or the failure of the septic system. The way that stands is if somebody occupies the house and is
not sold...
Attorney Dusek-Or keep it on contingent that it remain vacant too, because they said it's going to remain
vacant, right?
Councilman Goetz-Because there is a high water table there.
Attorney Dusek-So if you make the contingency on the vacancy and then it has to be installed upon sale or
lease or rental then you've got it.
Supervisor Brandt-Is there anyone else here to speak on this matter?
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
RESOLUTION GRANTING EXTENSION FROM REQUIRED SEWER CONNECTIONS FOR BRUCE
AND HERMANETTE MAIN
RESOLUTION NO. 524, 92
INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
Resolved, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby grants a two year extension of time in
which to hookup the residence to the sewer line provided, however, that in the event that the residence is
sold or leased the hookup shall be immediately on such sale or lease and the remaining period of time if
any shall expire at that time.
Duly adopted this 28th day of September, 1992, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr.
Brandt
Noes: None
Absent:None
PUBLIC HEARING - CLENDON BROOK WATER DISTRICT WITH THE QUEENSBURY
CONSOLIDATED WATER DISTRICT IN THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY, WARREN COUNTY,
NEW YORK
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NOTICE SHOWN
Supervisor Brandt-I'll declare this public hearing opened, is there anyone to speak on it? Ralph, how about
telling the public and us the details.
Ralph VanDusen, Deputy Water Superintendent-Just very quickly. Clendon Brook Water District was
formed as a separate district separate from the Queensbury Consolidated. The residents there are supplied
water from the Queensbury District from the Treatment Plant on the Corinth Road. Traditionally our water
districts have grown by these extensions or creation of new districts and they have their own bonds and
financing for their installation of water mains. Typically when the tax rate in those districts has approached
the tax rate of the Queensbury consolidated district that district is consolidated into the central district. The
big advantages to the consolidated district one, the bookkeeping becomes a nightmare. Every time we do
work on the distribution system records have to be kept as to where you are and what your working on.
The cost of the paper work probably equals the revenue that the district receives from that. In addition to
that when it's consolidated into the central district then that tax base is used to offset the capital charges that
the district wide the consolidated district would see. I would recommend that we do consolidate at this
time.
Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else that would like to speak on this matter? I'll declare the public hearing
closed.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE CONSOLIDATION OF THE CLENDON BROOK
WATER DISTRICT WITH THE QUEENSBURY CONSOLIDATED WATER DISTRICT
IN THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY, WARREN COUNTY, NEW YORK
RESOLUTION NO.: 525, 92
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
WHEREAS, there has, heretofore, been established and created a Water District known and
described as the Queensbury Consolidated Water District, and
WHEREAS, there has, heretofore, been established and created a Water District known and
described as the Clendon Brook Water District, and
WHEREAS, a notice of public hearing was given in the official newspaper of the Town of
Queensbury and a public hearing was held on September 28, 1992 on the subject matter of the proposal to
consolidate the Clendon Brook Water District with the Queensbury Consolidated Water District, pursuant
to Section 206 of the Town Law of the State of New York,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby determines upon the
evidence given at the public hearing that it is in the public interest that both districts as described above be
consolidated, and that the resulting Consolidated Water District be known as the Queensbury Consolidated
Water District, and that all property of the Clendon Brook Water District and of the currently existing
Queensbury Consolidated Water District, become the property of the new Queensbury Consolidated Water
District, and that the new Consolidated Water District assume and pay the indebtedness of each of the
original districts as if such indebtedness had been incurred subsequent to the consolidation, pursuant to
Town Law ~206, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby determines that it is in the public interest to consolidate
the district, and that it is in the public interest that future assessments of all costs of operation, maintenance,
and improvements of such Queensbury Consolidated Water District, and Clendon Brook Water District,
including any such costs that were formally assessable by law, upon the taxable real property in the
aforesaid Districts, be assessed upon the taxable property in the new Queensbury Consolidated Water
District, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby orders and directs the consolidation of the Water
Districts as determined to be in the public interest, and orders and directs that there be annually be assessed
upon all taxable real property in such new Queensbury Consolidated Water District amounts sufficient to
pay the principal and interest of all such Consolidated Districts outstanding indebtedness, including the
aforesaid indebtedness of the Clendon Brook Water District, and the currently existing Queensbury
Consolidated Water District, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that if there are any Office of Commissioners provided for in any of the districts, the
offices shall be abolished upon the effective date of the aforedescribed consolidation, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that in accordance with Section 206, Subdivision 4 of the Town Law, the Town
Clerk is hereby directed to publish and post notice of this resolution within ten (10) days after the adoption
of this resolution, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that this resolution shall be subject to a permissive referendum as provided by
Section 206 of the Town Law, and shall not take effect until thirty (30) days after its adoption nor until
approved by the affirmative vote of a majority of the qualified electors of such districts voting upon such
proposition if within 30 days after its adoption there be filed with the Town a petition in accordance with
Town Law ~206.
Duly adopted this 28th day of September, 1992, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr.
Brandt
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTIONS
RESOLUTION APPROVING MINUTES
RESOLUTION NO. 526, 92
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves the minutes of September
14th, 21st, and 23rd, 1992, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that minutes of September lOth, 1992, are hereby amended to include the following
additions. Motion of the creation of the position of second planner and Presentation by O'Brien and Gere
relative to water rate study and study of Water Plant Operation, Tony Geiss Jr., Managing Engineer and
Michael 1. Staffopoulos, Design Engineer present.
Duly adopted this 28th day of September, 1992, by the following vote:
All Those In Favor: Ayes
All Those Opposed: None
Absent:None
At a Meeting of the Town Board of the
Town of Queensbury, held at the Queensbury Activities Center, 531 Bay Road, Queens-bury, New York,
on the 28th day of September, 1992.
PRESENT: Supervisor Brandt, Councilman Monahan, Councilman
Caimano, Councilman Tucker
Goetz, Councilman
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION NO. 527,92
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury has heretofore formed the Hiland Park
Sewer District; and
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, working through the Superintendent of
Waste Water, the Assessor's Office, and the Town Attorney's Office, has developed a Benefit Tax Roll for
the said Hiland Park District; and
WHEREAS, the expense of constructing sewage facilities for said Hiland Park Sewer District, is
to be borne by local assessment upon the several lots and parcels of land within said area is a Town
Function; and
WHEREAS, an estimate of expense of the improvement and Benefit Assessment Roll for the
Hiland Park Sewer District in the Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New York, has been prepared; and
WHEREAS, the expense of said sewer district area is to be assessed in proportion to the amount
of benefits derived from the improvement area pursuant to Section 202 of the Town Law of the State of
New York; and
WHEREAS, the assessment roll for the said sewer improvement area has been prepared and
describes each lot or parcel of land contained within the said sewer improvement area and shows the names
of the reputed owner or owners thereof and the aggregate amount of assessment to be levied upon each
such lot or parcel of land; and
NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS ORDERED, RESOLVED, and DETERMINED, that
the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury authorizes and directs the Superintendent of Waste Water to
file the proposed Benefit Tax Roll, the same being presented at this meeting, with the Town Clerk of the
Town of Queensbury, and
BE IT FURTHER,
ORDERED, RESOLVED, and DETERMINED, that a public hearing, pursuant to the provisions
of the Town Law of the State of New York, shall be held at the Queensbury Activities Center, 531 Bay
Road, Queensbury, Warren County, New York, on the 19th day of October, 1992 at 7:00 p.rn., to hear all
persons interested in relation to the aforesaid estimates and assessment roll and to hear and consider any
objections to the aforesaid assessment roll and to take such other action on the part of the Town Board as
may be required by law or proper in the premises.
The foregoing resolution was offered by Councilperson Nick Caimano and seconded by
Supervisor Michel Brandt and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mr.
Brandt
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
DATED: September 28th, 1992
RESOLUTION TO REAPPOINT MEMBER TO PLANNING BOARD
RESOLUTION NO. 528, 92
INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury has previously established the Planning Board, and
WHEREAS, the term of Planning Board member Craig MacEwan will expire on September 30, 1992
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby reappoints Craig MacEwan to the
Planning Board for a seven year term, said term to expire on September 30, 1999.
Duly adopted this 28th, day of September, 1992, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mr.
Brandt
Noes: None
Absent:None
RESOLUTION APPOINTING MEMBERS TO ETHICS ADVISORY COUNCIL
RESOLUTION NO.: 529, 92
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, by previous resolution, adopted Local
Law No.8, 1992, entitled, "Ethics and Disclosure Law," and
WHEREAS, the aforesaid Local Law provides for a Code of Ethics and for an Ethics Advisory
Council consisting of five members, each appointed by unanimous vote of the Town Board, and
WHEREAS, the aforesaid Local Law also provides that members of the Ethics Advisory Council
will serve a term of four years, except, however, two of the original appointees will serve an initial term of
two years, and
WHEREAS, there is now presented to the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, a list of
interested persons for service on the aforesaid Ethics Advisory Council,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby appoints Mr. Guy Visk and
Ms. Marilyn Miller, each to serve an initial term of two years on the Ethics Advisory Council, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby appoints Mr. David St.
Germain, Mr. John Burch, and Ms. Helen Stern, to serve an initial term of four years on the aforesaid
Ethics Advisory Council, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that each of the above-appointed persons shall be required to file an Ethics and
Disclosure Statement within 30 days of the date of this resolution, and said persons shall also file within
said 30 day time period, an Ethics and Disclosure Law Review Forrn.
Duly adopted this 28th day of September, 1992, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr.
Brandt
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION OF APPOINTMENT
RESOLUTION NO. 530, 92
INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury has previously created the position of Executive
Director of Planning, Zoning and Code Enforcement, and
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby appoints James M. Martin to such
position, effective October 12, 1992, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that Mr. Martin will serve provisionally until such time as the position of Executive Director
receives the required approvals from Civil Service and until such time that the Town may make a
permanent appointment subject to probation to the position, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that once the position of Executive Director receives Civil Service approval, should Mr.
Martin qualify he will be eligible for permanent appointment subject to a period of probation which
probation period shall be for a period of six months and which probation period shall be credited with the
time the position is held provisionally unless the Town Board shall, by further Resolution, provide
otherwise, which Resolution may, among other things, lengthen or shorten the probationary period, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that Mr. Martin, during his provisional period, will be paid an annual salary at the rate of
$38,000 prorated; and upon successful completion of the probationary term, Mr. Martin will be paid an
annual salary of $40,000.
Duly adopted this 28th day of September, 1992, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr.
Brandt
Noes: None
Absent:None
DISCUSSION HELD
Discussion Held on the vacancy of Chairman of the Planning Board. It was noted that Vice Chairman, Ed
LaPointe will act on behalf of the Chairman until the position has been filled.
DISCUSSION HELD
INSPIRATION PARK
Charles Adams-Spoke to the Town Board regarding Inspiration Park. Noted that they had made a request
about three weeks ago to the Town Board to consider the proposal to allow them to build residential
dwellings concurrently with building the roads in Inspiration Park. Had asked upon the basis that this is a
project that is basically a done deal, not a speculative project and is fully bonded for the entire completion
of the entire project. Requested that buildings permits be allowed to be issued so construction could begin
on these homes, not asking for certificates of occupancy to be issued on these homes. Noted that the Town
Board has considered this request and recommended that it go to the Planning Board on the
recommendation of the Town Attorney, who pointed out that Planning Board approval was required in such
a request on the basis of three issues. At the Planning Board meeting the Planning Board was advised by
the Town Attorney that it was in their discretion as to whether or not to approve this proposal of accepting
a bond as insurance of completion of the infrastructure portion of the project. It was in the discretion of the
Planning Board to approve such a proposal with respect of whether or not it was policy suitable for the
Town. The second thing in their discretion is whether or not the amount of the bond was suitable. The
third thing in their discretion was whether or not the term of the bond was suitable for the Town's best
interest. After discussion the Planning Board passed a resolution which subject to confirmation by Mr.
Naylor, perhaps others having to do with dollars and estimate amounts, on the infrastructure, recommended
that the proposal be accepted and that it come back to the Town Board for the Town Board's approval.
Since the Planning Board meeting and as a result of that meeting Town Attorney Dusek and Attorney's for
the project, contractors, bonding company, have work very hard to totally restructure the documents. They
have rewritten the performance bonds and payment bonds and separated out into separate bonds the portion
of the guarantee's that apply to the infrastructure as opposed to the portion of the bonds which apply to all
the rest of the project. Noted they have parceled out the same way the construction contract they now have
two sets of construction contracts. One, which applies to the infrastructure construction and the rest which
applies to the construction of all the rest of the project. Requested that the Town Board pass a resolution to
proceed with the project, but conditioned upon the final review of the Town Attorney of the documents in
place.
Attorney Dusek-Noted as Mr. Adams has indicated there has been a break apart of the original bonding and
agreements which is much more to the advantage of the Town, noted it will make it easier to make claim to
the funds should the Town have to do that. Another important aspect that has been accomplished is that
time has been made of the essence in connection with the completion of the infrastructure. In addition to
that the bond itself has been rewritten, the contracts rewritten and then there is a separate agreement that
will be signed by the contractor, Homefront and Adams and Rich as agents for Homefront, and the Town
which go to the heart of addressing all of these issue. Stated at this point everything looks good, but would
like to reserve his final opinion until tomorrow morning until further review of documents.
It was the decision of the Town Board to pass the following resolutions.
RESOLUTION REGARDING INSPIRATION PARK
RESOLUTION NO. 531,92
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt
WHO MOVED IT'S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
RESOLVED, to approve the concept of bonding for the Inspiration Park Project, such that the
Town's interest in having the infrastructure fully complete before occupancy of any home occurs and such
that the Town's interest is protected in the event that infrastructure is not complete at the expiration of
roughly one year from the month of September, time being made of the essence, and such that the Town
may draw upon the bond or seek completion of the infrastructure by the bonding company should the
infrastructure not be completed which would include the roads to the Town's satisfaction and with the form
of the bonding to be in such form, sufficiency and manner as shall be approved by the Town Attorney to
protect the Town's interest, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that once a performance bond and all the necessary agreements have been executed
by the Town Supervisor on behalf of the Town Board, the Town Building Department may issue building
permits for the houses at the project site and specifically the Town Board hereby notes, that no certificate of
occupancy shall be issued by the Town Building Department until such time as the roads and other
infrastructures are properly completed and accepted for dedication by the Town and until such time as all
utilities are fully installed.
Duly adopted this 28th day of September, 1992, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Brandt
NOES: Mr. Tucker
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION ACCEPTING PERFORMANCE BONDS INSPIRATION PARK
RESOLUTION NO. 532, 92
INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED: Mrs. Susan Goetz
Attorney Dusek-We need one more resolution from the Board on this too, that is whether you approve of
the United States Fidelity and Guarantee Company as the Surety.
Councilman Monahan-I'll move it.
Councilman Goetz-I'll seconded it.
Supervisor Brandt-Any discussion, please vote.
Duly adopted this 28th day of September, 1992, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Brandt
Noes: None
Absent:None
Abstain:Mr. Tucker
COMMUNICATIONS
Councilman Goetz-Spoke to the Board regarding the request to reduce the speed limit on Country Club
Road. It was forwarded to the County and the State, noted that the State has turned down the request.
(letter on file in Town Clerk's Office)
DISCUSSION HELD
Councilman Goetz-Spoke to the Board regarding a letter received from David Hatin regarding a
neighborhood problem in South Queensbury. Noted that David Hatin is asking if the Town Board is
interested in changing the section of the fencing ordinance because he hasn't enforced this yet. It was the
agreement of the Town Board not to change the fencing ordinance.
Attorney Dusek-Spoke to the Town Board regarding the Traffic signal situation on Quaker Road. The
following resolution was passed.
RESOLUTION APPROVING AMENDED LANGUAGE IN WARREN COUNTY TRAFFIC
LIGHT CONTRACT
RESOLUTION NO. 533, 92
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
Attorney Dusek-What I just gave to you is a copy of the contract as it's now been marked up after
conferences with the County Attorney as you can see from the markings we're very close. The biggest
difference at this point lies on Page 4, paragraph 6, where before if you'll recall we had a provision in there
that generally indicated that the Town wouldn't assume responsibility for the lights until such time as the
County adjusted them and the Town checked it, if they didn't like it there was a ten day provision all of
that. The County suggested that rather than get into all of that they would rather as the County Attorney
put it to me or the Assistant County Attorney, Sterling Goodspeed, put it they rather cut a purchase order to
New York Fire and Signal let them adjust it while we supervise and that's it, it would be done with. What
this language does is it says, the County shall after execution of the agreement accomplish further
programming or adjustments to the satisfaction of the Town by retaining the services of New York Fire and
Signal at County's expense. The Town shall supervise the programming and adjustments and the Town's
responsibility for the lights shall commence following New York Fire and Signals performance of such
service. That was their alternative to having this back and forth because they felt they were concerned that
maybe the Town and the County might never reach an agreement concerning the lights. An additional
change was proposed on Page 5, at the end of the paragraph concerning the County's responsibility. If
you'll recall that the County as part of the agreement will be liable and responsible at all times for its
workmanship, engineering, construction, installation and the placement of the lights except it says, where
the same is effected and this is what they wanted, effected by the reckless, negligence, or careless conduct
and/or acts of the Town of Queensbury agents, servants and employees.
Councilman Caimano- They don't have much respect for our Highway Department is that what their trying
to say?
Attorney Dusek-I think what their trying to say is we don't mind being responsibility for what we did, but
we don't want to be responsible for anything that might happen after the fact. I don't personally find that
objectionable, I trust that you won't either.
Councilman Caimano-Because Paul Naylor's not sitting here in the audience you don't find it objectionable.
Councilman Goetz-Who will supervise the programming is that Paul?
Attorney Dusek-It's whoever you would designate. The other thing was minor language a whole other part
was taken out in two places on Page 5 or 6 concerning negligence it's just a general referral to negligence. I
didn't have any problem with that, that they wanted taken out.
Councilman Tucker-Paul, I have a question for you. Quaker and Glenwood that mall put that light in there
do they own it?
Attorney Dusek-No. We will have that too as part of this package.
Councilman Tucker-We own it.
Attorney Dusek-Yes. They put it up at our insistence.
Councilman Tucker-I understand the ones at Shop -n- Save they own?
Attorney Dusek-That's correct.
Councilman Tucker-We will have nothing to do with them?
Attorney Dusek-As far as, I know that's not part of this package and I know of no discussions to change
that.
Councilman Monahan-But, if I remember right Paul they did agree to synchronize their lights with our
lights on Quaker Road.
Attorney Dusek-I wasn't part of that agreement so I'm not sure.
Councilman Tucker-Have you talked to Mr. Naylor about this?
Attorney Dusek-I don't know that we've gone over these exact provisions that have been proposed, but
previously we had generally discussed the concept of taking the lights over.
Councilman Tucker-We we're talking about budget the other day and he had a considerable amount of
money in his budget for these lights that he was taking over. He didn't know at that time that they were
going to be brought up to our standards or fixed whatever needed to be done by the County. He is going to
be the man that's doing it so he should be part of it, I believe.
Supervisor Brandt-The language sounds reasonable to me. I think if I were the County I feel exactly the
same way. I think it's a reasonable request and I think if we really what them than let's get on with this.
Councilman Caimano- What do you want from us?
Councilman Goetz-So what do you want from us?
Attorney Dusek-Approval of this new amended language in the contract.
Councilman Caimano-I'll move it.
Councilman Goetz-I'll second.
Supervisor Brandt-Any discussion, please vote.
Duly adopted this 28th day of September, 1992, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr.
Brandt
Noes: None
Absent:None
DISCUSSION HELD
Councilman Tucker-Spoke to the Town Board regarding the drainage problem in Queensbury Forest.
Noted that the Highway Superintendent is asking to hire an independent engineer to take a look at the
drainage situation. Supervisor Brandt stated it would seem that it's the Board's responsibility to make sure
it get's built as approved and if it isn't built as approved it doesn't get built, noted that the Board will look at
this tomorrow to make that decision. It was the decision of the Town Board not to hire an independent
engmeer.
DISCUSSION HELD
Supervisor Brandt -Spoke to the Board regarding the status of the landfill and getting an extension of the
consent order for the landfill. Noted that a detail closure plan needs to be done. Noted that part of the
problem with the landfill is that more material is needed for volume so that we can get the correct contour
to the landfill so then it can be closed successfully. A source of material needs to be identified which will
probably have to come from the outside of the county. It could be C & D waste, sludge from certain paper
mills, especially where there is reprocessing with paper. Noted they are trying to get technical information
together to see if such material would be usable. It has already been approved from the Encore Plant, for
the cover material for South Glens Falls Landfill, they would like to find a home for some of it. If the rolite
process can be brought in it can save an enormous amount of money from handling the ash from our
current burn plant. Discussions are on going between the two counties and the IDA to try to find a local
home for the ash. The savings could be enormous for both the county and provide the Town with an
enormous amount of money for the closure of the landfill. Stated he has talk with Morse Engineers to try
bring this all together.
Supervisor Brandt -Proposed to the Board that the Town Board enter into some kind of a contract with
Morse Engineering for this service.
Attorney Dusek-Noted that to date what has been submitted to DEC is a the Closure Investigation Report as
well as the Closure Plan. Noted that the closure plan has been for the entire landfill, but the CIR is for one
part of the landfill. Stated that no matter what is done you need to advance to the next stage for the
remaining part of the report this is one of the reasons we applied to DEC for an extension beyond the
October 1st, deadline. Noted that the proposal that the Supervisor has made could be merged into the other
part, recommended that the Board consider this.
It was the decision of the Town Board to meet with Morse Engineers to further discuss this matter.
OPEN FORUM
Carol Pulver, Queensbury-I have a couple of questions Mike, one specifically for you. In the minutes of
the August 17th, meeting you talked about the Environmental Committee, I was under the impression that
the committee was no longer meeting. Now, I understand is it Ralph VanDusen is part of the committee so
the committee is meeting. What I'd really like to know is what their doing, when do they meet, what are
they working on?
Supervisor Brandt-There are a couple things going on. The Environmental Committee first of all, I have
not attended their meetings. They did not have them during the summer and I think their getting back
together. I think, I saw some correspondence where they want to get back together and discuss that
themselves.
There is another Environmental Committee that really has to do with the technicalities of the landfill and
there is some cross over between those two groups. There are some people from the Environmental
Committee who are on the Landfill Committee. But, I can't speak for the Environmental Committee, I
don't know.
Mrs. Pulver-How can I get list?
Supervisor Brandt-We can provide you with that.
Mrs. Pulver-Clerk's Office?
Supervisor Brandt-Or my office during the day. I've talked with Dave Hodgson, I've talked to Dave quite a
bit. I don't think they have a President. I think they decided not to have a Chairman and they rotate
Chairman. We'll give you a whole list.
Councilman Monahan-Carol, one difference is the Environmental Committee is appointed by the Town
Board.
Mrs. Pulver-As advisory isn't it?
Councilman Monahan-As an advisory. The other committee Mike was referring to is a technical
committee or is people that only Mike himself has appointed to advise him.
Mrs. Pulver-Okay, I guess what I'm talking about is the Advisory Committee to the Town Board.
Councilman Monahan-The Environmental Committee.
Mrs. Pulver-That would be the Environmental Committee. I just think as a citizen, I would like to know
whose on that committee and what it is their working on. The other thing is that, I have a few concerns and
I'd like to discuss it with you tonight. My biggest concern is Mr. Tucker voting on planning, zoning,
building and code resolutions which approve changes in law or personnel. I'd like the Board to really look
closely at this issue and evaluate it. I don't believe that anyone thinks that Mr. Tucker would deliberately
do something to jeopardize his position, but I really feel that there is a potential for conflict. Since Mr.
Tucker depends on the planning, building and codes and personnel for his livelihood it would seem that this
gives him the authority, I mean he has the authority to approve raises and elevate these people's positions
and so forth. That it could be misconstrue that at sometime that maybe he's applying political pressure to
these people. So, I guess, you know, I object to him voting on these issues and I guess, I would like your
input on that.
Councilman Goetz-I think it's up to Mr. Tucker to determine whether he feels he should vote on it. I
wouldn't want to presume that Mr. Tucker wasn't using his best judgement, I think that's up to hirn.
Councilman Caimano- The problem that came up is, of course, is that what we now have done is we have
passed an Ethics Law. The Ethics Law asks us to show to the Town, the reason for the Ethics Law is to
show to the Town is that we are doing things properly and above board. I agree with you that it's up to
each individual member certainly the issue is an interesting one.
Councilman Goetz-This is something that you would be able to bring to the Ethics Advisory Council.
Mrs. Pulver- We'll, I guess before I would want to do that, I would want to bring it to this Board and bring
it to Mr. Tucker's attention.
Councilman Tucker-The way the system works is that we have an Ethics Committee and we have an
Advisory Board, take your charges there, take your charges into the system.
Mrs. Pulver-Then, I guess I have to assume that you don't think you have any kinds of conflict?
Councilman Tucker-No ma'am, I don't. I've been working with the Planning Board, Zoning Board, and the
Building Department since it existed here in the Town of Queensbury. As far as asking any favors from
anybody I never have, never will.
Mrs. Pulver-Well that was before you were in the position that your in now.
Councilman Tucker-It hasn't changed the way I feel.
Supervisor Brandt-There is a specific law your welcome to review it, gladly give you the copy of it. We
just appointed the Board the Ethics Council and they are the people who would get a compliant, your
welcome to make the complaint and start the process if you feel that is what should be done.
Mrs. Pulver-My other concern is also to Mr. Tucker. On September 10th, I have the minutes here where
there was a resolution to appoint an Assistant Planner which was introduced by, Mrs. Goetz and seconded
by you, Mike. As I was reading down it appeared to me that Mr. Caimano and Mrs. Monahan were
unaware that the resolution was going to be brought up, but that was fine then it was withdrawn. After
consulting the Board as to what they wanted to do, did they want to vote on it or withdraw it, you ask Mr.
Tucker and his words were, certainly the scope has changed since we had the meeting the other night. I
know my view has changed and you know the reason of what I've run into here last Friday downstairs. I
went through the meetings and I don't know what meetings he's talking about. I don't have anything to
where I would have a clue as to what he's talking about.
Councilman Tucker-It was something that took place in Executive Session on a Friday night.
Mrs. Pulver-On personnel?
Councilman Tucker-Yes, ma'arn.
Mrs. Pulver-My next question is then on September 21st, when the resolution is reintroduced appointing
Assistant Planner there is no discussion at all in any of the minutes, yet you voted for it.
Councilman Tucker-Yes, ma'arn.
Mrs. Pulver-I think there should have been some discussion as to why you changed from not voting to vote
to vote at least for the public the public has a right to know.
Councilman Tucker-It was decided in Executive Session.
Mrs. Pulver-Are those the things that are suppose to be decided in Executive Session?
Councilman Tucker-When it comes to people's lives, I think that's where it should be talked about.
Attorney Dusek-As far as the law goes in executive session, I can help out there. The law is quite clear that
matters, at least that's the way it's worded, matters leading to the appointment of a particular person are
properly discussed in executive session. If they discuss the merits of that particular person his employment
history anything about that person that would give rise to whether or not they should appoint that is proper
discussion.
Councilman Caimano- Well, but you bring up an interesting point though. It kind of bothered me has been
bothering me since last weekend.
Councilman Monahan-I was going to make a statement on this, Nick go ahead.
Supervisor Brandt-Wait a minute one at a time.
Councilman Caimano-My concern is that probably for the right reasons, but maybe in the wrong form we
actually did vote without an open session on approving that second position. It came at the end of another
meeting, what Friday night.
Supervisor Brandt-It was in an open session.
Councilman Caimano-It was in an open session, I shouldn't imply that. The meeting was open...
Supervisor Brandt-And legal.
Councilman Caimano-I guess.
Supervisor Brandt-What you do mean you guess was it legal or wasn't it?
Councilman Caimano- It was an open meeting.
Supervisor Brandt -So was it legal or wasn't it?
Councilman Caimano-I don't remember the basics of it, frankly. I don't remember how we got into the
meeting whether we came there for executive or not. All, I'm suggesting is that maybe...
Supervisor Brandt-You can have an open session after an executive meeting and we did that didn't we?
Councilman Caimano-Did we have an open, yes we did.
Supervisor Brandt-Yes, we did?
Councilman Caimano- W e did.
Supervisor Brandt-So is there anything illegal or immoral or blemish?
Councilman Caimano-I'm not suggesting illegality or immorality here. All I'm asking is did that meeting
start as an open meeting was it a publicized open meeting.
Supervisor Brandt -Of course, it was.
Councilman Caimano- I just don't remember, I cannot remember.
Attorney Dusek-I was going to say, I think the record would speak for itself in that regard meetings are
usually noticed. Then usually when Darleen advertises them, I'm pretty sure she customarily will put down
some ideas to what the meeting will be about. Then she usually puts in the phrase and such other and
further business that may come before the board which means when the board meets the public has been
properly noticed. Then if they go into an executive session then they come back out as long as they take
the moves legally, you know usually when I'm here I've seen you do it, it's been proper as far as I can tell in
terms of the votes and everything. Then when you come out your free to transact business accordingly.
Councilman Caimano-As long as we did it in an open session, I just don't remember the whole scenario.
Supervisor Brandt -You certainly wouldn't vote on something if you didn't think you were properly
constituted would you, Mr. Caimano?
Councilman Caimano-Actually, I think I voted against it, but that's beside the point.
Supervisor Brandt-No, but you voted, you did vote and you lost in the vote.
Councilman Caimano-Oh yeah.
Supervisor Brandt -Could this be politics?
Councilman Caimano-No, because the only one whoever mentions politics is you.
Supervisor Brandt-Excuse, what?
Councilman Caimano- Y our the only one whoever mentions politics.
Supervisor Brandt-No, but other people get very involved in it, I'mjust open and up front about it.
Councilman Caimano- Yeah, right.
Supervisor Brandt-Call it what the hell it is that's all.
Councilman Monahan-Carol, I would like to respond to you and it's odd that you really brought up
something that I have been very uncomfortable with. As far as Mr. Tucker's concerned, I think Mr. Tucker
has to make those determinations knowing his livelihood.
Councilman Caimano-Or any of us.
Councilman Monahan-Or the effects of his votes on his livelihood.
Supervisor Brandt-That's right.
Councilman Monahan-After the meeting of September 21st, I got to thinking the next morning and I said to
myself, we either violated the open meetings law or we came very close to violating the open meetings law.
When we go into executive session we have to do so for specific reasons. The reasons were, Resolved that
the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from the Regular Session and moves into
Executive Session to discuss litigation, personnel, professional services and matters leading to the
appointment of certain people. Okay, we did do performances, and qualifications of specific persons that's
part of what we did in that executive session. As a result of that if you have the minutes of September 21st,
if you'll turn to Page 17, we came out and we did two resolutions.
Supervisor Brandt-We came out of executive session.
Councilman Monahan-We came out executive session into open session and did two resolutions.
Councilman Caimano- Yeah, we did that right.
Councilman Monahan-One, was a resolution of Termination of Employment. One, was a resolution
assigning duties of Zoning Administrator. I think those were very proper and very properly discussed in
executive session. You will also see that we did a resolution Appointing Assistant Planner. You will also
see that there is no discussion in these minutes, I will tell you what happened in executive session correct
me if I'm wrong. The Supervisor said he would like to put the position of the second Assistant Planner on
that night we had no notice of this being on the agenda. It goes against our resolution of 8/3/92, of that
Resolved, that an agenda will presented to the Town Board and to the public on the Friday proceeding each
meeting along with all pertinent information that is necessary. But, more importantly
I feel that during that executive session we discussed material that should not have been discussed because
the majority of that discussion and I was a part of it and I will admit this because the whole thing caught me
by surprised was not the qualifications of any person, but except very lightly that was touched on. Because
a major part of that discussion was whether or not this was now the time to create this position with the
turmoil we were in downstairs. I maintain that discussion was improper in that executive session.
Attorney Dusek-I was there at that meeting. I'm your Attorney, I did not object to the discussions
generally.
Councilman Monahan-I know you didn't and that's why I was so surprised the next morning and I figured
you were like me you'd gotten caught by surprise.
Attorney Dusek-Well, you know when I think back over it though even what you just said there it's still
matters relating to the appointment of a particular person.
Councilman Monahan-You have often told us...
Supervisor Brandt-Wait a minute, one at a time Betty.
Councilman Monahan-Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, Mike, I'm talking this with Paul.
Supervisor Brandt-Wait a minute Betty the Attorney is speaking let him finish, please.
Councilman Monahan-He did. I want to just check that point.
Supervisor Brandt-Betty the Attorney is speaking, please. Won't you finish, Paul.
Attorney Dusek-My only comment on it is, I think when you talk about matters leading to the appointment
of a particular person which is what that was an issue is should that particular person be appointed there are
pros and cons behind appointing that person that were related to personnel at the time. I don't know Betty
that I see necessarily a violation there.
Councilman Monahan-I disagree with you because it was that particular person that was in question most
of the discussion. The discussion was whether or not that job should be created at that particular time.
Supervisor Brandt-Wait a minute.
Councilman Monahan-Wait a minute Mike you told me not to interrupt the Attorney.
Supervisor Brandt-Wait a minute. My god this isn't a filibuster, baby, hey just a minute.
Councilman Monahan-And you also have told us in previous times we could not deviate from that
statement.
(Tape illegible due to gavel)
Supervisor Brandt-The Chairman's got the meeting here, Betty.
Councilman Monahan-Well maybe the Chairman is trying to shut up somebody who doesn't...that he
doesn't want to hear.
Supervisor Brandt-Order, please. Now that we have order...
Councilman Monahan-Do we have order or anarchy?
Supervisor Brandt-We have some kind of order right now we've got a little gavel that's working pretty
good. I'd like to remind the Attorney, first of all, I don't agree with her analysis or her recollection of it. In
executive session, I simply told the Board that as part of the reorganization and the change and the moves
we were doing with personnel that I would bring forth in open session a resolution to hire someone and
that's all that was said. There was no discussion of that in executive session. We went into open session
and did it and there was no discussion and so be it. Everybody said whatever they had to say apparently
and it wasn't much and the resolution passed end of business. Now, it's your turn Betty.
Councilman Monahan-There was no discussion in the open portion of that meeting because I went in and
listened to the tape. Nick, I ask you, you were there did we discuss whether or not this position should be
put on line at that time?
Councilman Caimano-My answer is that I remember arguing to no avail that we ought to wait until we
appoint the new Executive Director because I thought that the Executive Director ought to be a part of that
process. But, I have to be very honest with you I simply don't remember...
Supervisor Brandt-Nick did you do that?
Councilman Caimano- I said that.
Supervisor Brandt-In executive session?
Councilman Caimano- I was just going to say that I simply don't remember the timing of it. I think the most
important thing that I want to say regardless of what anybody else's wants to say, if there was a problem
there all I'm concerned with is that the public knows what the situation was. If we did something wrong
and you say we didn't Paul, then the public knows about it and my apologies there, if there is an apology
needed it's there that's all I care about.
Councilman Monahan-That was my point in bringing it up because I do feel that we...
Councilman Caimano- That's my only concern.
Councilman Monahan-Did stray very close to the line.
Attorney Dusek-I think this board knows that I have been relatively conservative in terms of always
advising you to watch out for matters and if you are straying, I will let you know. When your talking about
personnel of whether to hire a person and your also talking about possibly letting the director to make that
determination as to whether that person's fit for the qualifications. I mean that's very close in my opinion in
terms of are you talking about the person, are you talking about whose going to decide it. You don't know
when you come into these things in terms of, I can tell you this much that certainly the matter that you had
selected for the agenda i.e., hiring that particular person to me seemed perfectly proper. Now, can you pin
point statements that may, you know you could argue that should they be discussed in open shouldn't they.
As you know we've been round and round on this stuff in the past and I advised you that when your talking
about the overall reorganization plan like you did in the one meeting you went public with all of that you
did that in public. When your talking about hiring a particular person which is what that issue was that
night that's proper for executive session. You know, can you pick apart some of the comments that were
made relative to that particular matter and say, should that be discussed or shouldn't it be discussed
obviously as the board knows you try to be as careful as you can to stay right on the money. That night as I
was sitting there listening in to be honest with you, I just didn't seem something to object to otherwise I
would of objected.
Councilman Monahan-That's why the next morning frankly when it hit me, I thought...
Councilman Tucker-Mr. Chairman can I make a comment.
Councilman Monahan-This is so unlike what normally happens.
Supervisor Brandt -Yeah, Pliney.
Councilman Tucker-I was under the impression that anything that happened in executive session happened
there and stayed there. The night that we interviewed this lady that we hired for this job we interviewed her
she left the meeting with the indication that she was going to be coming to work within the next two or
three days.
Councilman Goetz-Like next day.
Councilman Tucker-The next day. After she left all the board members said, well who hired her.
Councilman Goetz-I said it. I said, have you been hired because she was giving the impression that she
was and that was she was being told, but not by the Town Board.
Councilman Monahan-That was the first time.
Councilman Tucker-That was the first time, right. The lady left the meeting with the impression she had
been hired. After she left, correct me if I'm wrong we had a conversation about it and we decided to delay
it. The next two days or a week the information came to us that the lady she lived down in Hudson or
Poughkeepsie, had given up her apartment, had made arrangement for an apartment here in Glens Falls. I
believe, Mike the gentlemen called you on the phone and wanted to know if the lady had the job because he
had a chance to rent the apartment out and she was holding him up because she didn't know whether she
had the job or not, correct?
Supervisor Brandt-That's true.
Councilman Tucker-Okay. This all entered into the conversation and Mrs. Pulver's question about
changing my line of thought this is what changed my line of thought. I'm going to come right out and tell
you the reason that I didn't want to hire the Assistant Planner originally was that I didn't want her to
become a clone to the situation that we had in the Planning Department at the time she was hired.
Councilman Monahan-Actually there were three meetings in which this was discussed. The one that
Pliney's talking about when we interviewed her, after she had the impression that she had been hired, I
don't know who gave her that interview. The next was a meeting of September the 10th, when the motion
was put on the floor and then withdrew because not enough people would approve it. The third was a
meeting of September 21st, when that motion with no public discussion passed. I still among the personal
feeling and that's why I bought up what was in executive session that there were things in executive session
that didn't belong there that's my feeling on it. I felt that the very next morning after that meeting that we
had strayed over the line and I will be the first one to say that I think we strayed over the line.
Supervisor Brandt-Okay, it's your floor.
Mrs. Pulver-My only question is that I would hope that in the future then there would just be more public
record. I'm following, you have so many meetings, I can't possibly get to all your meetings, I don't know
how you can get to all your meetings.
Councilman Monahan-It's getting very difficult and also get to our constituents out there and find out what
they need and what they want so we're not governing in a vacuum it's getting very hard, Carol.
Mrs. Pulver-As I'm going through, I mean I'm just finding that I'm finding loose ends and I can't find the
answers to it. I wanted you to be aware of that.
Supervisor Brandt -Yes.
Unknown-I think, I should feel intimidated right now after all of this.
Councilman Goetz-I hope you don't.
Councilman Caimano-What is your name?
Emily Akins-Mr. Tucker, I might need your help.
Councilman Tucker-Yes, ma'arn.
Mrs. Akins-The junkyards were to be given new permits in July, they were given a letter to get their act
under control.
Councilman Tucker-To comply, yeah.
Mrs. Akins-I don't see no changes.
Mrs. Akins-So Mr. Martin, I'm going to be at you from now on.
Councilman Caimano-Is this Bill Threw's property your talking about?
Mrs. Akins-Mr. Combs, Mr. Clark's, the one down on the Boulevard.
Councilman Monahan-Mrs. Akins those permits go through our Town Clerk's Office.
Town Clerk, Dougher-They have gotten permits.
Councilman Monahan-They have gotten permits.
Mrs. Akins-Yes, and to me their not up to standard. You look at Mr. Clark's fence that's not a full fence.
Councilman Monahan-Darleen should those comments come to you or should they come to the Building
Department?
Councilman Tucker-Has Bob Clark got a permit?
Town Clerk, Dougher-The Building Department gives me their recommendations as to whether I should
give a permit or not.
Councilman Tucker-Did Bob Clark get one?
Town Clerk, Dougher-I'll have to go back. I'm pretty sure he did.
Councilman Tucker-Cause, I know that Dave was taking him to court over the fence.
Town Clerk, Dougher-I'll have to go check, I mean I've got so many ofthern. But, I can tell you which
ones I have and don't have, I can get you a list by tomorrow.
Councilman Monahan-Darleen are the renewal dates of all of these junkyards the same?
Town Clerk, Dougher-All the same.
Councilman Monahan-The same and they are for one year, right?
Town Clerk, Dougher-That's correct.
Councilman Monahan-And it's July 1st?
Town Clerk, Dougher-I believe so.
Councilman Monahan-I mention this Mrs. Akins because in the future is you see something that is not up to
snuff let the Town know before the time of when their permits will be renewed.
Mrs. Akins-I think, I did mention them.
Councilman Tucker-Yep, and they issued a letter.
Mrs. Akins-They issued a letter, but nothing was done so where is the inspector?
Councilman Goetz-He's not here tonight.
Councilman Monahan-Because they either have to recommend or not recommend them to the Town Clerk
before those permits are issued the Building Department.
Councilman Tucker-If their not conforming can their license be revoked?
Attorney Dusek-I'd have to check the laws on that. But, I believe there are probably remedies of some
nature set forth in the laws.
Councilman Monahan-It's easy though Pliney to not to issue the permits in the first place if you know there
is something wrong.
Councilman Tucker-I gather they've been issued and Mrs. Akins has got a problem with them. If they are
not conforming we should revoke their license.
Attorney Dusek-Well there maybe some procedure in there. Like, I say, it may not necessarily be a
revocation maybe there is a mechanism for fines or something.
Councilman Caimano-Put a stop work order on thern.
Attorney Dusek-But, I'm sure that if it's brought to the attention of the Building Department that they in
turn can investigate and if it's warranted they can take the appropriate action that's allowed for under the
law.
Supervisor Brandt-Hi, Jirn.
Councilman Goetz-Like your new job, Jirn.
Mr. Martin-I'm going in with my eyes wide open.
Councilman Caimano-Welcome to work.
Mrs. Akins-Come on up home, I'll show them all to you.
Councilman Monahan-You want that all taken care of in the next two weeks don't you Jim.
Mr. Martin-I'll honestly due my best.
Mrs. Akins-Really?
Mr. Martin-Yes.
Mrs. Akins-I hope so Mr. Tucker, we need more of your help.
Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else?
John Salvadore, Queensbury-Mike, I hear that the Lake George Park Commission has written a letter to the
Town of Lake George indicating that they want to take over the on site waste disposal inspection and
registration for the Town. Have you been approached in similar matter?
Supervisor Brandt-We got a letter, I don't think it said quite that. I think it said that, first it gave us a
compliment that we had essentially finished what we were supposed to be doing, I think which, I didn't
know. They were really asking us to sit down with them, yeah their asking for a meeting with us on this
whole thing. I kind of felt it would be awfully nice to have the head of the department aboard and we ask
for a meeting in November to try to resolve all of this. We haven't taken any position whatsoever on it.
Mr. Salvadore-You know the reasons the Towns got into this was that it was going to save us the forty
dollar registration fee. That was what your predecessor sold us that the Town should get into this and would
save us this money. Now, it looks like we're going to wind up paying this fee this seems to be the reason
for the Park Commission getting into it now as they would like very much to collect those fees. As, I
understand it a couple of weeks ago you took on someone in Dave Hatin's department to do this work. It's
only been a few weeks is this person going to be out of work?
Supervisor Brandt-We didn't take him on to do that work we took him on to go to school to do building
inspection work. We scheduled him to go to school for the first school that was available. However, by the
time we scheduled that school was filled and we couldn't send him there so as fill in work he was put up at
the lake to do that work.
Mr. Salvadore-Did he finish the job?
Supervisor Brandt-What's that?
Mr. Salvadore-Has that job been finished?
Councilman Tucker-I can answer your question. A week ago he was taken off the work he hadn't finished
it, but a lot of the people up there some are residents and he couldn't make connections so Dave Hatin took
him off the job.
Mr. Salvadore-See the Park Commission is going to take over they are going to start to collect forty bucks a
site, forty bucks a system.
Councilman Tucker-You asked if he's done and he's done.
Mr. Salvadore-He's done then.
Councilman Monahan-He's done in the sense that he's done all the structures up there, right Pliney?
Councilman Tucker-He is. Dave Hatin took him off the job because he couldn't make contact with people
that he had to inspect because they were not on board.
Councilman Monahan-He's finished his inspections for the season, but there are still inspections to be done,
correct?
Councilman Tucker -Yeah. I understand our budget's going to eliminate that anyway.
Supervisor Brandt-We've got tough times and we've got to look at every position we can eliminate and the
philosophy could be to get out of doing park work and instead cut back on our personnel it's possible.
Mr. Salvadore-Are you going to do anything to protect your citizens from this what we consider really
illegal search and seizure? The wastewater regulations that this is all based on have been declared by one
court to be illegal.
Councilman Monahan-Are you talking about what the Lake George Park Commission is doing.
Mr. Salvadore-That's right.
Councilman Monahan-Has anybody done anything to have the Lake George Park Commission seize and
desist.
Mr. Salvadore-They have appealed the decision. We move to vacate the provision that when government
appeals it automatically stays the lower court decision and that motion was denied. That's when they
moved on the Town of Lake George the day after.
Supervisor Brandt-Paul you had a comment.
Attorney Dusek-I was going to say, I think when that letter came in Mike you and I discussed it briefly. I
know one of the things that was in my mind when we saw that letter was to have an opportunity to review
all of this before that meeting before we could take that up as one of the topics at the meeting as well. I
think, if I understood this Town Board if you didn't adopt a resolution you certainly gave me the indication
a little while back that you wanted to stay neutral on this thing so you could study all aspects because there
are pros and cons. If the Town jumps out of it immediately, yeah there is a problem with the Lake George
Park Commission jumping in and then also imposing additional fees and permit processes on the citizens
up there. On the other hand if the Town stays in, although you've got problems with that lawsuit on the
other hand the citizens don't get charged the additional fees and the Town can join it with their permitting
process. It's a real dilemma there and the court case doesn't help at all in terms of where does that leave us.
To me it seemed like these were all of the type of things the Town Board would like to discuss when they
meet with the Lake George Park Commission.
Mr. Salvadore-I think what your faced with is determining whether or not you think the Park Commission
has jurisdiction on the land in your Town to do what they want to do this is the issue. You've got a state
agency usurping your responsibilities your affairs.
Attorney Dusek-As far as the state's authority goes, I think that's set forth in the state law John and that's
clear. The Lake George Park Commission was established by legislation to my knowledge nobody is
attacking that legislation.
Mr. Salvadore-In the absence of a homerule bill.
Attorney Dusek-Has your organization attack that?
Mr. Salvadore-We will be.
Attorney Dusek-To date to my knowledge you've attack the regulations and the SEQRA part of the process.
Mr. Salvadore-That's true.
Attorney Dusek-That's a different issue. But, these are things that the board can certainly be considering
when they meet in the next month then in the meantime, of course, they can consider those.
Mr. Salvadore-You have a pretty good basis to protect your citizens from this activity up there. You have a
good basis if you want to fight.
Supervisor Brandt-I'd like to adopt a budget.
Mr. Salvadore-Okay.
Supervisor Brandt-Next.
Hilda Mann, Queensbury-I don't vote for Mr. Tucker, I don't have anything to do with Mr. Tucker, in his
defense about people having conflicts. If I'm not mistaken Mrs. Pulver, I think you were on the Planning
Board when the Homefront issue was presented before the Board is that not correct?
Mrs. Pulver-Yes, I was.
Mrs. Mann-Were you not working for Homefront at the time?
Mrs. Pulver-Yes, I was.
Mrs. Mann-Did you vote on that issue?
Mrs. Pulver-Yes, but I would like to make it clear that I had counsel by the Town's Attorney before I voted
on it whether or not it was appropriate to vote on it. The Deputy Town Attorney at the time said, yes it was
okay.
Mrs. Mann-That it was not a conflict of interest on your behalf?
Mrs. Pulver-Right. And also the other point is that, I never voted on the issue, I only voted on the
recommendation of the rezoning and then I abstained from all voting after that only because we felt it did
cause...
Mrs. Mann-It was a conflict?
Mrs. Pulver-No, it caused too much controversy.
Mrs. Mann-That was one Attorney's opinion. But, without the rezoning obviously Homefront could not
have been established so that was critical.
Mrs. Pulver-The Planning Board as you know is only advisory we did not make the rezoning...
Mrs. Mann-Did you make any comments during the Homefront thing? Just to point out that there is always
a potential for conflict of interest here on everybody's part.
Mrs. Pulver-Only during that meeting where the Planning Board was asked for the recommendation. All
other times, I totally removed myselffrom the Board and sat in the audience and did not vote after that.
Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else?
Fred Champagne-I too, have a simple question. Did we or did we not hire an Assistant Planner?
Supervisor Brandt -Yes.
Councilman Monahan-We've got two actually Fred. We had one that we, that we first hired quite sometime
ago. Then the discussion was whether or not there should be a second assistant planner coming on
particularly when we had no director to direct that person.
Mr. Champagne-Just to add to that. As the water becomes just a little more muddy regarding or personnel
hiring practices here it might be in the best interest of the Town Board to take a lesson on how to hire, how
to fire. I hear we hired someone because someone was going to rent an apartment. For those of us in the
audience it get rather confusing in fact, sometimes frustrating.
It would appear to me it might be in the interest of us taxpayers and certainly the Town Board to become a
little better prepared perhaps in personnel matters.
Councilman Monahan-This is why, I rather objected in having it thrown on us with no notice when by our
own rules and regulations we're suppose to have notice of any resolutions coming in front of us.
Supervisor Brandt-Mr. Champagne, we did not hire someone because of their apartment needs. We looked
at our staffing needs we identified them clearly and the majority of the board hired them. If your friends
lost the vote too bad that's the way board's work as you know. There is a majority and it rules and it did
rule and to bad we move on.
Mr. Champagne-Mike, I don't need that kind of explanation.
Supervisor Brandt - I thought you just came and asked for one, Fred gee whiz.
Mr. Champagne-I can appreciate what happened except for those of us that are listening in the audience
there is some difficult understandings that I have in the process simple as that, thanks for your comment.
Supervisor Brandt-Thanks for your comment, anyone else?
Carol Martindale-I feel there is going to be a much bigger problem where we're concerned with the hiring
of Jim Martin.
Does he take office on October 12th, is that what I heard tonight?
Councilman Caimano-Something like that, yes.
Mrs. Martindale-Several things I'd like to bring up. First of all doesn't his wife work with the Town
Lawyer? Is there going to be a problem having, isn't there something with the Code of Ethics?
Supervisor Brandt-There are lots of things in the Code of Ethics and they've been examined and they are
basically for those two people to figure out and to live within the code. It's been discussed and I don't
personally think it has to be a problem.
Mrs. Martindale-It can be a problem because our personnel experience with the Town and I'm sure this
Town Board is very well aware of it. On January 28th, we met with the Planning Board totally due to the
confusion that Pat Crayford didn't understand the present zoning in which she lost her office for various
reasons. Jim Martin added to a lot of harassment on the part of my family with him not understanding the
zoning laws.
Councilman Monahan-Wait a minute Carol, would you repeat that sentence, I kind of lost that.
Mrs. Martindale-We have been harassed by my father-in-law in our farming experiences here in
Queensbury, etc. Pat Crayford who was Zoning Administrator told us that we had to come before the
Planning Board. When we did Jim Martin playing politics with the law office of Little & O'Connor put us
through hell, a living hell and this board is very well aware of that he's caused a lot of confusion for the
whole Town. Would Jim Martin kindly like to state his views on sales of agricultural products within the
Town?
Supervisor Brandt-Why don't you let him come to work. I mean, my god give the guy a day.
Mrs. Martindale-I would like to have him speak on it. He was at the agricultural meeting in July, I believe
when you advertised it. He publicly stated that he did not want these things going on on 149, which is a
commercial road a state road he's totally against commercialism on 149.
Supervisor Brandt-I'm sure your phrasing things out of context.CMrs. Martindale let him speak for himself, please.
Supervisor Brandt-No matter what he thinks he doesn't set the law the Town Board decides what the zoning
will be. He's an advisor an employee and he will make his recommendations as any other employee, he
will oversee the department. He's not a dictator and he's not going to be a dictator he knows that well his
role is to
run the department.
Councilman Caimano-Because of the position he's in now he has less freedom. Before he was really a
private citizen who happened to be a volunteer on the Planning Board now he works for us.
Mrs. Martindale-You set the policy and the precedent in the Town is that correct?
Supervisor Brandt-We can, sometimes we do.
Mrs. Martindale-It has been the policy for a good two hundred years for agricultural products to be sold in
the Town of Queensbury with no confrontations is that correct?
Supervisor Brandt-Look it, your going to take me through a law that I've read and reread and I don't
understand it and if anybody else understands it wonderful. We have Attorney's that have sat and read it
and argued this thing back and forth and the real answer is somebody make some sense out of this law all
the way through. Now, the last discussion I heard was that it really was an enforcement problem and really
I don't want to be an expert in it. In two weeks we will have an expert aboard who can start helping us.
Mrs. Martindale-Who is the expert?
Supervisor Brandt-That's Mr. Martin. He'll be there running the departments trying to coordinate what it is
we're doing there, I can't wait.
Mrs. Martindale-What expertise has he had in agricultural?
Supervisor Brandt-I don't know.
Mrs. Martindale-When he has verbally stated he's against it.
Supervisor Brandt-I don't think that's the point. The point is does he know the law and can he help make it
work easier. I think, you know I've heard this argument since before, I took office and it's still hot and
heavy and until we do something it's going to stay hot and heavy and god bless you. Right now we're
addressing the budget and that's what we're going to address for a while. Then we'll come back and
hopefully he'll help us and the Attorney can help us and that's what staff is for. Someone else said, you
know something is wrong with the way we enforce an ordinance for junkyards well there maybe, I don't
want to enforce them nor does Pliney Tucker. That's why we have a staff of people we're trying to get them
all to work in the same way by the same standards to have one set of rules that's not easy it's certainly been
a major task force. We're starting to address it, we're slowly getting there. We certainly had a misstep, but
we're addressing it and we're going to continue to address it. Tonight, I certainly don't think we're going to
give you the answer to your problem.
Mrs. Martindale-The first meeting in May after our Zoning Board Meeting on April 30th, I presented this
Town Board with New York State Town Law 136, which in fact states, if your a New York State producer,
if you produce agricultural products you can sell on private land which we have been selling for the past
three years or more our produce. Jim Martin at the Planning Board meetings who chaired the meetings and
caused a lot of confusion told us he ignored state polices he said, what does that have to do with it. I can
bring you the records, I have the minutes in the car. He caused a lot of confusion he wouldn't even give me
my constitutional rights of freedom of speech.
Supervisor Brandt-He probably will in his new job.
Mrs. Martindale-I should certainly hope so.
Councilman Monahan-Carol, I think what we're dealing with here is a very...
Mrs. Martindale-We are a unique situation because we are a producer. We're not like these other people
who go out and buy stuff and resell it consistently we're different than that.
Councilman Monahan-I think what we're dealing with as we all found trying to deal with this a very fuzzy
law that needs redefining, re-clarification. Hopefully that will be done before another season starts for you,
I hope but that it the crux of the matter. We talked about the problem a lot we have to talk about solutions.
The solution is that we have to take those laws and redefine them and make them consistent and that's
really a job that this Town Board has got to settle down and do.
Mrs. Martindale-Can this Town Board acknowledge the State Town Law, 136? Can they acknowledge it
and say if they are a producer that's it they have a right to sell their products.
Councilman Monahan-Anything that the Town does will have to be in conformance with the state law
unless we can bring homerule into effect, I don't know about that Paul that's where you will advise us when
we get into that.
Attorney Dusek-Every situation has to be judge on it's merits as the facts are applied to the law or the law
to the facts. To sit here tonight and try to answer questions other than to simply say that, I know what the
Board has said in the past is that they will, of course, follow the law that's the bottom line.
Councilman Monahan-I think we're also saying is that we have fuzzy situations that have come up and we
have to try and get that law tailored so the situations aren't fuzzy. Whether or not we have to go by the
letter of the state law, I don't know or whether we have the right through homerule to make some changes, I
don't know that's something your going to have to advise us when we get down to that.
Mrs. Martindale-In your Queensbury Code it states that peddling of produce is excempt from in cities of
the first class, etc. Mr. Dusek was made aware of that before when we met with him in Mike's office. Pat
Crayford, Mike, Mr. Dusek and myself met after the January 28th, Planning Board Meeting. Paul said, as
far as the law was concerned right now that we had a legal right to sell unless the Town changed the law.
Attorney Dusek-I don't think, I said that quite that way. What, I said is that you have the same right to do
what anybody else is doing in the Town as far as the stand is concerned.
Mrs. Martindale-That's not what you said to me in your office.
After you met with me in the office and Pat Crayford and Mr. Brandt, Jim Martin came into play once
again. You had gone and discussed something with Jim Martin, I don't know how he even entered into the
picture because he wasn't even present at that conference in January.
Supervisor Brandt-I'm sure this is going to continue for a long time. I'd like to move it along if we can.
Mrs. Martindale-Okay, then one further question. I'm of the understanding that you have tabled an act of
enforcement against my husband and myself about selling produce in the Town. Mr. O'Connor and Irving
and Lillian Martindale were present one night when we weren't here and I was informed that you have
tabled an enforcement measure against us is this true or not?
Councilman Caimano-I haven't a clue.
Supervisor Brandt-I don't know.
Councilman Goetz-I never heard of this.
Mrs. Martindale-You have not been presented anything.
Supervisor Brandt-I don't know.
Councilman Goetz-I never heard of this.
Councilman Caimano-I don't remember, do you?
Councilman Tucker-No.
Mrs. Martindale-Okay. So then we are free and clear to do so?
Supervisor Brandt-I didn't say that.
Councilman Caimano-Of the five things I handled in the last ten months, I didn't remember this.
Mrs. Martindale-We met with you in April and in May and I ask this question before we even starting
selling and we were told to go ahead and do it by this Town Board.
Councilman Caimano-We better look it up. Can we have the minutes looked up.
Councilman Monahan-I'm not even sure if the Town Board has that authority Carolyn. I wouldn't want to
say anything until those minutes, I don't believe we have that authority to say, you know ignore a law that's
on the books.
Councilman Caimano-I don't know what we did.
Councilman Monahan-I'd have to see those minutes. Sometimes you have to even listen to the tape
because the minutes are a condensed version.
Mrs. Martindale-It was in reference also to the April 15th, meeting that this Town Board had in conjunction
with George Ryan's situation. After that meeting which wasn't even advertised because I would have been
present it was said that the Town was not going to enforce any measures against people selling produce. I
have those minutes right here which this whole Town Board should be well aware of that anyway.
Councilman Monahan-What date of the minutes?
Mrs. Martindale-April 15th, Special Town Board Meeting held at 5:00 p.m.
Councilman Monahan-But, you said a meeting subsequent to that.
Mrs. Martindale-I'm saying April 15th, prior to our Zoning Board meeting on April 30th. The Town Board
had a special meeting because Pat Crayford went to enforce George Ryan's illegal sales of what the Zoning
Board said they couldn't do. Pat Crayford went up there to enforce it and then George Ryan insisted on a
special meeting on April 15th, which you all should be aware of and then the Town Board decided that they
were not going to press any measures of people selling produce.
Councilman Monahan-I'll go back an say what I've said many times that I don't think that George Ryan and
some of these other situations are apples and apples. He was there, I believe a site plan review a planning
department etc., so I don't think were talking about quite the same things.
Mrs. Martindale-We are talking the same thing Betty. George Ryan was granted agriculture use to grow
products not to buy and sell. I have the minutes right here it was on May 17th, 1988.
Supervisor Brandt-Mrs. Martindale, god give us some time let us get our people in place and we'll address
the issue. We certainly have addressed it many times, we haven't resolved it. I'll be the first to tell you, you
know that I don't have to tell you.
Mrs. Martindale-My concern was with Jim Martin being hired. I know his position on this he has stated it
to the family he's been against it even at the Town Board meetings here and I just want to express my
concern for his appointment concerning our particular situation. We did present to you in February and all
five board members loved our project that we want to build on 149, with the Pancake House and everything
else and I'm afraid that he can try and hinder the project.
Supervisor Brandt-No he wouldn't.
Mrs. Martindale-Okay.
Mr. Martin-All I can say in response is that I will deal with this situation fairly and honestly and openly and
in consistent with the laws that are on the books. If the laws are not up to what the Town Board would like
to see done then at your mandate
we can work up some alternatives and make the situation better.
Mrs. Martindale-I think what I would ask seeing that Jim Martin is a family member there would be a
conflict in the Code of Ethics and I would prefer that the Town Board handle our situation personally.
Councilman Monahan-We can't handle it, Carolyn.
Supervisor Brandt -Wait a minute. Your jumping to some conclusions read the Code of Ethics and then talk
about it.
Mrs. Martindale-He should of abstained on the Planning Board.
Supervisor Brandt-Does he make money off these things and these decisions if he's making money then he
best not handle thern. If he's got his finger in the pie involved in part of the business then he best not
handle thern. If he doesn't then when your talking family then it's dependants. That is are his children who
he pays for making money on it. It's a complicated law, please read it before you start throwing it out like
that because your not doing it right. It isn't what the law says at all your implying things that are not there.
Attorney Dusek - I would just like to address one issue since it was raised and that is the fact that Pam
Martin is my secretary as you know and Jim is now the Executive Director. Personally, I don't have a
problem with that. Nobody is more sensitive to confidentiality than I am as the Attorney for the Town.
But, I can tell you this Pam not only is she competent, but she also knows about confidentiality, she's
worked for me for four and a half years now in fact, she worked for me before she married Jim Martin. I
have the utmost respect for her abilities and I think and I have no reason to believe that she won't continue
to do a good job. I don't see a conflict there at all.
Mrs. Martindale-Pam is a very competent person, I would agree with that. But, my concern was that what
we had discussed in private ended up with Jim Martin being in on your letter, his name was on your letter
Paul.
Attorney Dusek-Let me say something. There is nothing that Pam would reveal of a confidential nature to
anybody. That, I would strongly disagree with any insinuation.
Mrs. Martindale-Then how did Jim's name get on your letter?
Attorney Dusek-I have no idea, but I can tell you it wouldn't of been Pam.
Councilman Monahan-Was a copy sent to Jim because a copy would probably go to the Planning Board.
Mrs. Martindale-He had a conference with Jim
Councilman Caimano-Way, way of base here.
Mrs. Martindale-I don't want to take up anymore of your time, I just wanted to express my concerns.
Councilman Monahan- I just would reiterate what Paul said about Parn. I think she is very competent, I
think she is very cognizant of her position and the sensitivities of it. In fact, frankly before I even voted for
Jim on the Planning Board, I investigated that whole issue of whether or not they could keep the two things
separate.
Councilman Caimano-Plus they signed the Ethics Law.
Councilman Monahan-I am very confident that there will be no crossover, I see no problem at all.
Councilman Goetz-I felt it would be discrimination against Mrs. Martin to say that she couldn't have her
job because of the situation.
Councilman Monahan-I think it would be discrimination.
Councilman Goetz-I do too.
Councilman Monahan-I think it would a illegal discrimination.
Supervisor Brandt-Does anyone else have something to bring to us?
OPEN FORUM CLOSED
DISCUSSION HELD
Discussion held with Ralph VanDusen, Deputy Superintendent of the Water Department, concerning water
bills being sent out off schedule.
RESOLUTION APPROVING AUDIT OF BILLS
RESOLUTION NO. 534, 92
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves the Abstract appearing on
September 28th, 1992 and numbering 92395800 through 92424400 and totaling $456,058.50 is hereby
approved.
Duly adopted this 28th day of September, 1992, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Brandt
Noes: None
Absent:None
Abstain:Mrs. Monahan (CWI 000453) Mr. Caimano
(Councilman Caimano left meeting)
RESOLUTION ENTERING EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 535, 92
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Regular Session and
moves into Executive Session to discuss an assessment case.
Duly adopted this 28th day of September, 1992, by the following vote:
All Those In Favor: Ayes
All Those Opposed: None
Absent: Mr. Caimano
No further action taken.
On motion, the meeting was adjourned.
Respectfully Submitted,
Darleen M. Dougher
Town Clerk
Town of Queensbury