1993-02-01
TOWN BOARD MEETING
FEBRUARY 1, 1993
7:00 P.M.
MTG. #10
RES. 96-107
TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
Supervisor Michel Brandt
Councilman Betty Monahan
Councilman Susan Goetz
Councilman Nick Caimano
Councilman Pliney Tucker
Attorney Paul Dusek
Pledge of Allegiance led by Councilman Nick Caimano
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Notice shown-PROPOSED LOCAL LAW AMEND "BUILDING SEWERS AND CONNECTIONS"
Supervisor Brandt-The first item on the agenda is an amendment to the sewer law. Mike would you lead us
on that.
Mr. Mike Shaw-This proposed Local Law amendment is an addition to Section 136-54 adding subsection
B- All costs and expenses incidental to the cleaning and maintenance of the sewer building lateral from the
main to the building shall be borne by the property owner. The owner shall indemnify the sewer district
and the Town from any loss or damage that is directly or indirectly or occasionally by the cleaning or the
maintenance of the building sewer lateral. Basically what this does is, we have had this policy in the past
in the department that each property owner or building owner is responsible for the cleaning of their
individual laterals to the main. This is just to put it in the Code Book to cover us under the codes.
Supervisor Brandt -Ok. It is a public hearing where we are asking for public input on this so I am going to
declare that public hearing open and if anybody is here to talk to us on it now is the time. Anyone like to
speak on this? Basically formalizing a situation where if there is a problem with the line that goes from the
house or building out to the main it is going to be the building owners responsibility to fix it. The cost will
be borne by them, they have to, take care of it. Anybody who would like to speak on that. Lets declare the
public hearing closed and move on to something that is of more interest to other people. Thank you Mike.
RESOLUTION TO ENACT LOCAL LAW NUMBER 4, 1993
A LOCAL LAW TO AMEND THE CODE OF THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY
CHAPTER 136, ARTICLE X THEREOF, ENTITLED
"BUILDING SEWERS AND CONNECTIONS"
RESOLUTION NO. 96, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is desirous of enacting a Local Law to
amend the Code of the Town of Queensbury Chapter 136, Article X thereof, entitled "Building Sewers and
Connections," to amend Section 136-54, "Responsibility for Costs; Liability," to add a new paragraph
therein concerning the costs and expenses incidental to the cleaning and maintenance of a building sewer
lateral, with the remaining provisions of said Code remaining unchanged, as more specifically set forth in
the proposed Local Law presented at this meeting, and
WHEREAS, a copy of the proposed Local Law has been presented at this meeting, a copy of said
Local Law also having been previously given to the Town Board at the time the Resolution was adopted
which set a date and time for a public hearing, and
WHEREAS, on February 1, 1993, a public hearing with regard to this Local Law was duly
conducted,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby determines this action to be
part of routine or continuing agency administration and management of the Central Queensbury Quaker
Road Sewer District and hereby further determines this matter to be a Type II Action under SEQRA and
finds no further SEQRA review necessary, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby enacts the proposed Local
Law to amend the Code of the Town of Queensbury, Chapter 136, Article X thereof, entitled "Building
Sewers and Connections," to amend Section 136-54, "Responsibility for Costs; Liability," to be known as
Local Law Number 4, 1993, the same to be titled and contain such provisions as are set forth in a copy of
the proposed Law presented at this meeting, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury is hereby directed to file the said
Local Law with the New York State Secretary of State in accordance with the provisions of the Municipal
Home Rule Law and that said Local Law will take effect immediately upon filing and as soon as allowable
under law.
Duly adopted this 1st day of February, 1993, by the following
vote:
AYES Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mr.
Brandt
NOES None
ABSENT: None
LOCAL LAW NO.: 4,1993
A LOCAL LAW AMENDING THE CODE OF THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY,
CHAPTER 136, ARTICLE X THEREOF, ENTITLED,
"BUILDING SEWERS AND CONNECTIONS"
BE IT ENACTED BY THE TOWN BOARD OF THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY AS
FOLLOWS:
Section 1. Chapter 136 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury is hereby amended to add a new
paragraph B in Section 136-54 and letter the original paragraph thereof as "A" to read as follows:
Section 136-54. Responsibility for costs; liability.
A. All costs and expenses incidental to the installation and connection of the building sewer
shall be borne by the owner(s). The owner(s) shall indemnify the sewer district and the town from any loss
or damage that may directly or indirectly be occasioned by the installation of the building sewer.
B. All costs and expenses incidental to the cleaning and maintenance of the building sewer
lateral from the main into the building shall be borne by the property owner. The owner shall indemnify
the sewer district and the Town from any loss or damage that may directly or indirectly be occasioned by
the cleaning and/or other maintenance of the building sewer lateral.
Section 2. Effective Date. This Local Law shall take effect immediately upon filing with the
Secretary of State.
PUBLIC HEARING
NOTICE SHOWN PROPOSED LOCAL LAW AMEND "GARBAGE, RUBBISH AND REFUSE"
Supervisor Brandt-The second one I suspect is of more interest, it is a public hearing on garbage and refuse
law. So, that you understand where we are coming from lets both Paul and I try to give you a little
background. We first of all in a closure order where we have to close our landfill and basically I do not
remember the date but its supposed to be closed September, is that correct?
Attorney Dusek-September 1st, 1993
Supervisor Brandt-Of this year and I think ENCON recognizes that, that's not going to happen easily, that
we do not have all the answers yet and neither do they. So, we are going to be applying for an extension
under that order. The question is what are we really going to apply for? When the closure order was made
the Town of Queensbury thought that as the sole landfill for the County it would see an enormous amount
of material coming into it That material would generate enough money to pay for the landfill closure and as
soon as this came about this magic date we would basically have the money to close the landfill and close it
out and be finished, however that did not happen. The amount of material coming into the landfill was
greatly over estimated and the reason for that, is that about the same time we became the county landfill the
bum plant went into operation, under the laws of the county all of the refuse had to go to the bum plant that
could go there. Our waste stream diminished to a very small amount and basically it has not produced
much revenue toward landfill closure. We are facing a very large cost, probably in the neighborhood of
four million dollars as a guess and there again we are guessing we do not have all of the, we cannot define
everything, yet. In the mean time a new Federal Regulation came along that came into effect that says if
you are operating after a certain date in October of this year, 1993, then you come under their jurisdiction
and you have to meet some additional requirements. Those requirements are not easy to define yet, it is a
brand new law, the way it is going to be interpreted is being argued between the State Office, or Dept. of
Environmental Conservation and the Federal people and exactly how we fit in to all that we do not quite
know, but our people have gone to school and try to learn what it means and going to conferences and try
and understand it. In the mean time we know that, because of the limited amount of waste that is coming to
our landfill we need to develop other sources of waste so that we can raise our income so that we do not
have to raise, pay for this closure with taxes. We could under the original plan put something like Seven
hundred thousand cubic yards of material in our landfill, but where are you going to get that much and with
the bum plant running that is not even really a possibility. Now, we are looking at various scenarios, what
if we brought in paper mill sludge from certain paper mills, we are looking at ENCOR and Stevens
Hollingsworth, is that right ...
Councilman Caimano-Steven Thompson
Supervisor Brandt -Steven Thompson and Hollingsworth and Devose
and those mills have a certain process where the sludge that they are producing can have benefit and not be
a big problem. So we are tying to see, can we work out a deal, with them to handle some of their material
to give us income. What if we took construction debris for a period of time and develop some income from
that? What other, then there is another one and that's what if we took the ash from the bum plant, process it
into Rolite and use that as part of the Gas Venting layer. All those can produce quite a bit of income and
then another major question will the State who started a program of helping to fund municipalities close
their landfill, will they have any money in that process that can help us. That is an open question, we do
not have the answer to any of those things. In the mean time we have a contract that was written with the
other Towns in the County and with the County which basically says that we will not accept any waste
from any other place other than this County. And, we need to change that so that we have the option of
doing what makes sense to do. It is not that we know what makes sense to do at this point but, until we
change that contract we do not have an option to do any of this. So, that basically is what this is about, am
I correctly identifying it?
Attorney Dusek-You have generally hit upon some of the issues Mike, that the Town is faced with. I
would just add that I think it is very important to note that the landfill is closing, there is not question about
that, it has to be closed, DEC Consent Order is out there and that is what is mandating a lot of this push to
get things under control and try to close the landfill out at a reasonable cost. This particular Local Law
what its designed to do is to allow the Town to utilize what would normally be considered waste under
some circumstances but in some instances would not be considered waste, by that I will explain. Fore
instance, paper sludge, is could normally be considered a waste however, DEC has and that is the
Department of Environmental Conservation, has under some instances granted what we call a beneficial
use determination. Meaning, that they are taking it out of the waste stream and they are considering it a
product of sort that can be used in connection with a landfill closure. They are currently considering the
same type of thing with Rolite, now, where they go with that or whether that is ultimately approved we
cannot say for sure but that's one thing they are looking at. C&D waste on the other hand that is mentioned
in here, is waste and that would be used as I understand it from talking with the Town's Engineers on this,
primarily as a fill material to bring certain areas of the landfill up to grade so it can be closed out in a
proper fashion. So, part of the material that this local law authorizes C&D is really waste but then part of
the, which is no different then the C&D by the way that has been accepted in the past, it would be that DEC
that, C & D that the regulations allow but the other part of what this law seeks to do is open the doors so at
least if it is available and it meets with everybody elses approval as Mike, indicated there are contracts that
have to be amended there is DEC approvals that have to be obtained yet. If it is available to be able to use
these things normally called waste as a product in connection with the closure. If it does happen it is
anticipated that the sludge would be used in connection with the barrier protection layer for closing out the
landfill while the Rolite if that is available, as I understand it, its chief purpose would be to utilize it as a
gas venting layer, am I correct on that Dick?
Dick Morse-Yes.
Attorney Dusek-So, this law opens the doors to do that but it does so in recognition of the fact that the
Town has to close out the landfill. Here again you have until, as Mike mentioned September 1, 1993 to
close the doors under federal regulations it would appear you probably have although the regulations
indicates six months because that is going to hit us right during the winter season it would seem reasonable
that they would give us an extension to go a little further. Your really not talking that long of a period of
time in which to get this stuff in and going to comply with those orders. So, that's kind of the background
of why this is where it is at.
Supervisor Brandt-With all that said I am going to open the public hearing and I also want to tell you that I
don't think it is the will, at least myself, I will speak for myself and I think the whole Town Board to one
day come and tell you what the answers are. I think what we will try and do is develop the answers as
rapidly as we can and then come back to you and tell you what we think they are, and then hear you guys
out. Because the public has to live with this, whatever the costs are, they are going to have be bear them
one way or the other and its the enviromnent of our town that we are talking about and we are going to
effect it and we are going to have to discuss it and come to a consensus of what we want to do. We know
one thing it's not going to be cheap. The questions are, are there ways of funding it within innoxious
materials that won't harm us or are there not? What we are doing is laying the ground work for this to
enable us to make the decisions as we get the information together. So, with that I will open the public
hearing. Anyone wants to talk to us please do, come on right up.
Councilman Caimano-While John is coming up we ought to introduce for the record, you keep referring to
him, Dick Morse who is the Engineer working with us on this project, so as you keep asking him for
answers to questions, people know who he is.
Attorney Dusek-The other thing I would just like to mention while John is coming up, I do not want to take
away from you John, this local law does provide as well and maybe a furtherance of what the Supervisor
was indicating that if the stuff was allowed under this local law it still has to be brought to the landfill with
a written agreement and upon such consideration or other terms as approved by the Town Board. So, there
would be yet another review, this would not automatically allow it, you would have to yet come back to the
Town Board for further action.
Mr. John Salvadore-My name is John Salvadore I was not aware that this subject would be on the agenda
tonight, so I will speak from memory. Mike you seem to allude to the fact that this, we have a financial
burden, an enormous financial burden through maybe some errors of our own. This landfill closure plan
and consent agreement that we got into I think was part of a County wide master plan. It was based, it was
based on receiving so many tons into that landfill in this period to cover the costs and it is based on the
same numbers that incinerators design to. Way over stated. That is the route of our problem somebody
over stated the trash available in this county. We are on the tail end of that.
Supervisor Brandt-No question.
Councilman Caimano-Almost double as a matter of fact.
Mr. Salvadore-Now, that trash plant is in court over that, ok.
Supervisor Brandt -Hopefully.
Mr. Salvadore-They are in court over that, what relief can we get? What relief can this town get? As I say
we entered into that consent agreement based on the numbers that were given to us by developers by
county and now we are stuck and we have got to find a way out of this? That is coercion.
Councilman Caimano-Relieffrom the State, you mean John?
Mr. Salvadore-I do not know where.
Attorney Dusek-I might be able to partially comment to that. The, because I was part of the negotiations
with the other Attorneys, all the Town Attorneys for the Warren County got together and negotiated this,
with DEC and, DEC started with the attitude that they were going to close down all of the landfills.
Ultimately, what developed as the result of negotiations were consent orders that allowed the various
landfills to stay open to certain points and then to develop closure plans etc. DEC put quite a bit of
pressure on the Towns to resolve their landfill situations by means of closing the landfills in the later parts
of 88, 89 that time frame, I think 90. I am trying to remember the last year when the consent order was
actually issued, but I think there was a revision again in 91, but the only way the town could work out
something that was reasonable with, to keep the towns afloat in terms of a place to distribute their solid
waste was to come to terms with this consolidated waste for the Town of Queensbury. When all of that
was going on which I remember distinctly was in the fall of the year, that time of the year I can remember
having discussions with the other Town Attorneys where the big concern was at that time whether the
Town of Queensbury would have enough room in its landfill for all the waste from all the other towns. The
reason why this was a concern is because at that time the bum plant was not on line and it was not
anticipated that the bum plant would be going on line right away. In point off act in the agreements that we
have with the towns there is a provision in there that says we cannot take anything from outside the towns
because they were that concerned that we might run out of room. Well, I think that is where a lot of these
projections and figures got started because people were trying to make assumptions as to when the bum
plant would go on line. It went on line of course very soon, it went on just after the first of the year which
Mr. Salvadore-That was always the schedule,
Attorney Dusek -Well
Mr. Salvadore-they met their schedule, they met their contract agree...
Attorney Dusek-But, they did not think that they were going to at that time and as a result there was a
significant amount of waste that obviously did not go to the Town of Queensbury based on only the
opening of the bum plant but the Warren County flow control law which took it away and said it you had,
you had to go to the bum plant at that point.
Mr. Salvadore-But you, you should not have expected any more they had a contract, a completion date and
they met it, what reason did you think that they were not going to?
Attorney Dusek-The history.
Mr. Salvadore-The history of what?
Attorney Dusek-They did not meet a lot of other dates, John in terms of the development of that plant.
Supervisor Brandt-Well, that is hind sight, and we are as frustrated as you are, but we have got to solve the
problem.
Mr. Salvadore-It is not only our problem is my point.
Supervisor Brandt-I know it isn't
Mr. Salvadore-We were the bailout for Bolton, for Stony Creek, for Therman for all those towns, they did
not have landfills that were containing, contaminating the enviromnent we did. We did environmentally
the worst thing in the world was to acerbate the problem we already had and now we have got to bear the
burden of the cost?
Supervisor Brandt-We are hopeful we can find the solution that is acceptable to DEC and it is acceptable to
our citizens that can generate income to do this as it was first designed and that is what we are really
working on.
Mr. Salvadore-Maybe that income should be profit for us.
Supervisor Brandt-Well, wonderful
Mr. Salvadore-Why don't we break even on it.
Supervisor Brandt-But the problem is right now we, it has all got to be designed and its got to meet the
criteria of the State Government and the Federal Government. We do not define those criteria they do so
we are in negotiations, hat in hand, a little teed off at times but we keep our cool and try and maybe the
State legislature will send us some money, I doubt it.
Mr. Salvadore-They do not have any.
Supervisor Brandt -right
Mr. Salvadore-Don't count on it.
Supervisor Brandt-Right, so here we are and it is still our Town and it is still our enviromnent and we have
got to solve the problem. So, fore instance, if we could get paper mill sludge for the period of time that we
are going to be open, until October. And then afterwards use more paper mill sludge for a period of a year
in closure we could generate some of the income that we need. The same thing is true of Rolite, if Rolite is
innoxious and if it works then we might be able to solve part of the problem with that. But, we are left to
solve the problem.
Mr. Salvadore-I find nothing wrong with that, what I do not like is the corrosive atmosphere you feel you
are in, in order to do this.
Councilman Caimano-We are in the corrosive atmosphere there is no question about that, the question,
John brings up an interesting point though, I heard you go through all the explanations about past history,
but now the rules of the game have changed. As a matter of fact some of the suppositions that they made
are simply not true and as a matter of fact there is a problem with that piece of life, meaning the bum plant,
which was supposed to change our numbers. There is a problem there. Being an old peddler I guess, I do
not see any problem with going and asking for the order, I do not see any, the worst they can do is say no. I
guess what John is saying is we ought to take some offense and I think he is right we ought to take some
offensive here and say look some of the rules of the game have changed, what effect is that going to have
on us, either financially or time wise.
Mr. Salvadore-The consent order, the consent order was consummated under inaccurate and an atmosphere
of duress and corrosion, and that cannot stand.
Attorney Dusek-And I should have answered that earlier because I meant, after I got done saying
everything else I said I meant to respond more specifically to that. That is a good point and that would
normally be a, I think a good argument to go back to DEC, DEC and say hey guys you know everything
that we did was consummated on what we thought were going to be projections and you know by golly lets
keep our landfill open a little longer and let us have more time to close it out. That ordinarily would be
very good, except for one thing and that is that the Federal regulations kick in October 9th of 1993 and they
are not party to any of this and they do not really care, I do not think, at this point as far as we are
concerned what those Federal Regulations are going to do, is a couple of things. First of all, if you stay
open past the October 9th date you then come under their jurisdiction. Coming under their jurisdiction
means several things that are serious and important for the Town to consider. One, it means that they are
first of all going to be, you have to make sure you comply with their ground water monitoring standards,
second there is what they correct and remedial action measures that have to be taken in the event that
something comes up underneath those measures. Not only do you have to do it but you also have to set
forth plans, do engineering documents etc. to show how you are going to correct that. Next thing is, that
there is a thing called financial assurances that they are going to require in event that the landfill stay opens.
There may be, they are talking about possibly some exemptions for municipalities they are working on that
but that is another element that's present in all of that. There is some difference in the capping
requirements but I do not think and I am looking at Dick again here for help, but I do not think they are
really drastically different. But, the most serious thing is, is that there will be extra things imposed upon
the Town that maybe we don't want to get involved in by going past that date. The other thing is
Mr. Salvadore-You are not being coerced again are you?
Attorney Dusek-Well, this time if the Federal Government John and there is not a lot that you can do with
those regulations, you got to either comply or not comply.
Mr. Salvadore-Have you tried?
Attorney Dusek-Well, we are certainly going to try and get variances and extensions but you know you
have got to work through the process.
Mr. Salvadore-It's time, I am telling you, four million bucks is a lot money for this community
Attorney Dusek-It certainly is.
Mr. Salvadore-It is about time we stood up and fought for it.
UNKNOWN-What can we do. Have you tried.
Supervisor Brandt -We do not even know all the regulations, we just got, it is a book like that, we are
reading it we are trying to understand it, what does it really mean, when you read, you know, pages and
pages of this stuff what does it really mean in practice. We are trying...
UNKNOWN-Sooner or later you are going to have to find out and then can you ...
Attorney Dusek-Let me explain something else that has happening as we are going through this process,
which I think is important for every body to know. New York State right now is also going through a
change in their own regulations and what they are trying to do is become an approved State under the
Federal Government Regulations so that the Federal Government Regulation will not even apply to us, but
rather the State would then apply.
Mr. Salvadore-With their track record.
Attorney Dusek-That is what is also in the works right now, if they do what they want to do we then have
to deal directly with them as opposed to the Federal Government, all of this is going on as we speak. Ijust
went to some solid waste conferences on these regulations that the Department of Environmental
Conservation is promulgating in fact public hearings were scheduled to start today and they will be
continuing through February at different places and the citizens as well as the municipalities are welcome
to put in comments on those. We are looking into all those aspect to see how much flexibility what can we
do, the thing with the Federal Regulations they are enacted pursuant to Federal Law and the are applicable
across the County you know, they have some variance provisions in them but, unless you want to try and
attack the entire Federal Regulation Base which is going to be quite difficult to do so from a Legal Stand
point the, I think the better choice is to look inside the regulations and see what you have inside the system
that you can make work to your benefit, which is the tactic we have chosen so far.
Supervisor Brandt-Let me tell you we have been in conferences with people in DEC who really do not give
a damn about our financial trouble and they do not mind telling you. They do not mind saying it is your
problem because you did not raise enough money and it is your problem. But, the truth is, it isn't our
problem we did not create it they were a party to it. I know that, they probably know that if they really
want to search their sole a little bit and look in the mirror but this is what, and we are saying we do not
agree with that we are arguing about it and we want some help in solving the problem. We want their
cooperation to help us find an answer to this that's practical. I tell you my own feeling is that part of the
answer is to run a water pipe line out there in a very narrow water district just a pipe line out to those
residences around Jenkinsville down the plum of our landfill and set them up with water. That is going to
require money coming out of the whole town somehow to do it. That is probably seven hundred thousand
maybe eight hundred thousand dollars but, if we have a lawsuit over contamination of water that is a small
expense for what it could cost us in a law suit. I think that is probably part of a responsible answer, that
adds to the cost we have got to find a way of doing that in my estimation I am talking from my view point.
Now, it's.
UNKNOWN-Why do you have to have to do the water?
Supervisor Brandt-Why do you have to do the water, you don't have to but if the plum of where we are
putting contaminants into the ground water and they are migrating if they come into somebody's well and
there is a health problem they can sue us. So, if they sue us and there is one person with a health problem
eight hundred thousand bucks will go in a hurry, that is my estimation of what I see in the law suits. So,
you might better put the water over there and give them clean water to avoid that problem.
UNKNOWN-Why put it just here, there are a lot health problems around that are suspicious.
Supervisor Brandt-We are talking about what we contribute to, talking about the landfill and it is
documented where the ground water flows and what is happening to it and there is a lot of study on that and
I would only look at that part of it, from my view point. I think that's the only fair thing.
Councilman Monahan-Paul, what is the, excuse me, I want to go back to something that Paul said. What is
the difference in the proposed Federal standards for groundwater monitoring vs the DEC groundwater
monitoring that we are going to have to do for years and years to come?
Attorney Dusek-That one I can easily answer because that is an engineering question and I really have got
to defer to Dick and I do not want to put Dick on the spot because I know he is just getting into reviewing
those but you are really talking engineering I'm, it is beyond me as far as the technical stuff.
Mr. Dick Morse-There are different levels that kick in Betty, and I do not have the whole line here with me
but, I would gladly share it with you.
Supervisor Brandt-It is more testing
Mr. Morse-..and then if you hit certain levels then you have to go into a much more aggressive schedule,
and those levels will probably kick in at some point. Let me, everybody has talked about this but the DEC
and EP A are currently negotiating and that is what is in front of us right now. Draft regulations, and that is
all they are a draft waiting for public comment. So, we really do not even know what the final is going to
shape out at and then they are not even sure when they are going to be put in their place. The only date
they know is this October 9th on or about October 9th.
Mr. Salvadore-But we cannot go wrong getting out of that consent order, we cannot go wrong getting out
of the consent order, all options are open to us.
Councilman Tucker-How do you go about it John?
Mr. Salvadore-Well, I think it was consummated under false information number one and duress.
Councilman Tucker-You are talking a law suit then is this what you are talking?
Mr. Salvadore-fine.
Supervisor Brandt-I have been in law suits with the State of New York and when you are fighting with the
State of New York in the State Courts you find out that the Judges were appointed by State Politicians.
Mr. Salvadore-Tell me about it.
Supervisor Brandt -You know the answer, you usually lose. You get into Federal Court you might have a
shot at it but it is pretty tough in State Court.
Mr. Salvadore-That's right, but it is no excuse to stop fighting if you want my opinion.
Attorney Dusek-I might mention one thing though, John, to keep in mind and that is I do not think, unless I
am wrong, but I thought everybody of the belief that the landfill ought to be closed anyway.
Mr. Salvadore-Fine. No argument.
Attorney Dusek-I think that, if that is the case then I think my next reaction is, is that there are a lot of
things the Town has to do and among which is to go back to DEC and work out something with them in
terms of, because I do not want the wrong mistake left here that, that we would not go back in and try re-
negotiate the consent orders we have every intent of doing that in fact have started the communications
with DEC in terms of the sludge, the Rolite which is going to impact the consent order obviously. We very
well may want to go back for some modifications of dates and stuff so that the Town can do so under a
reasonable time schedule. I guess I should have mentioned that earlier but, everything we are doing pre-
supposes the fact that the landfill has to be closed so really if that is the belief of the Town and that is the
belief of DEC then really there is no need for a law suit it is just a matter of negotiating and I have to say I
think we have made in the past some head way and I am confident that we can do so still in the future. I
cannot guarantee it but I think we can, if we can put together a good plan ourselves and we go to DEC and
talk to them I think we are going, we can make some headway.
Mr. Salvadore-The next point is who pays for all of this, is this town going to be the only one who shares in
this cost? In this dilemma that we are in because other people made mistakes because our County made
mistakes, is that our burden to bear?
Attorney Dusek-Well, this is another thing that you know, here again
Supervisor Brandt-To tell you also we had a conference with the City of Glens Falls, we do not have a
contract with them right now and last year in the last contract it was clause that absolved them from any of
the closure costs and this landfill is as much theirs as it is ours and I do not think that is right and I told the
Mayor that and I told him if we cannot find an answer to this I feel that they should be a part to the answer.
I do not think he is fighting that to, I think he understands that's a, there's a moral obligation there. I think
when people absolve the city at last administration they really thought they had the finances lined up to
close this out, well it tums out everybody is wrong and we do not have the finances.
Mr. Salvadore-Don't try to make me believe that they are all a series of honest mistakes, I cannot accept
that.
Supervisor Brandt-Well, I do not know.
Mr. Salvadore-We pay people, we pay people for professional advice, ok, and we should get accurate
answers. We are so far off in this data it is incredible.
Supervisor Brandt-No question of that.
Mr. Salvadore-Alright.
Councilman Tucker-Mike, haven't you had conversations with the County also about helping the Town
with closing this thing?
Supervisor Brandt-I certainly have put it on the table many times and I will continue to, it is more than, we
did not create the whole thing, we accommodated the City to take their trash and to try and run as good a
landfill as we know how, and we have done that over a period of years and I think there is, we may have to
share a cost there. The first thing however, is can we negotiate and find a way of closing it from an income
stream developed from waste and that is the first thing we are trying to do. If we can, then we do not have
to fight with anybody all we got to do is get it closed and we got to get it closed as soon as we can, because
we are creating leachate, every time it rains we are creating more. So, the sooner we can close the better.
Mr. Salvadore-I have no more to say.
Mr. Dave Kenny-I just think that the proposed local law that you are talking about
Councilman Caimano-Dave Kenny
Mr. Dave Kenny- you should go with it. I mean you are sitting here arguing over something that is past
and I still don't even know what this consent order has to do with it, it is still the Queensbury landfill. The
consent order was signed over a year ago, or two years ago or three years ago we still have to close the
landfill and it would still be at our expense. At that time it was a gift given to us that we get all this extra
garbage to help pay the expense but if that has never happen we still would have to close the landfill and
still have to pay for it. They said well, we will give you a consent order, bring all this extra garbage
hopefully, it did not happen, but if we never signed anything, never even went to them we would be forced
to close the landfill today. So, we would still have the same burden if we never even talked to the County
or talked to anybody. This expense was Queensbury, Queensbury happened to have the landfill for years,
now to blame it on them I do not understand it. I think it is great to use it to possibly get the sludge I think
that is the way to go about it somehow create revenue we can but it has always been a Queensbury
problem. Queensbury has the landfill. I do agree with Mike, Glens Falls was let off the hook, it was Glens
Falls it wasn't Queensbury landfill it was a joint landfill between Queensbury and Glens Falls and there is
some burden that they should be somewhat responsible but it is not the County's responsibility or it is not
the other Towns responsibility it wasn't their landfill it was our landfill, and it has to be closed. So, I
concur with you 100% you try to go to law suits and stuff which I do not think we have a chance in the
world to win, just to create a law suit, to create a law suit is crazy, if we can get the sludge and the other
things accept the landfill we would be doing the town a great favor, I think and I think that is the way to go
and we should move on it right a way. Mr. Salvadore-I should also add that all of these reports, data that
we talk about the tipping fee was estimated at ten dollars and nine cents a ton remember that, ten dollars
and nine cents a ton was the tipping fee.
Supervisor Brandt -You know if we didn't take any of our garbage to the bum plant we would have every bit
of money to close this thing out without any question, but we are locked into that and I do not know what to
do about it. Yes, Sir.
UNKNOWN-What happens if we ignore those contracts that we have for Washington County and the flow
control and bring all our garbage to the Queensbury landfill, extend it regardless of what the DEC says as
far as time goes do what we feel is monetarily necessary in order to stop the bleeding, close the landfill in a
smart and intelligent way both financially and enviromnentally what is our consequences?
Supervisor Brandt-We would have to change the County law.
Attorney Dusek-Well, I can answer that, though, he is asking what if we just ignore the law.
UNKNOWN-Ignore the County Law, ignore the State law I am using common sense, tell me what the
consequences are.
Supervisor Brandt -One of the problems with ignoring the County Law most of the trash is handled by
Commercial Carriers and if the Commercial Carriers bring it to us rather than the bum plant they will get
fined.
UNKNOWN-Ok, I think all of that can be worked out if there was if someone was going to come along a
cut our head off...
Attorney Dusek-I think I could, that sounds, initially that's all, looking at all the options, that is an option
and that certainly is an attractive option if it would work, but I got to tell you that I do not think that it
would work and there are a lot of reasons. Mike, just hit upon one, another one is the County could go after
us obviously and sue us and we would have law suits to fight there. In addition to that we may loose our
eligibility for a grant which, I know right now that the money is not there for the grant but from
conferences that I had down in Albany I have reason to believe based upon what they are telling us, that
there may be money available through that grant again yet and as long as we help maintain our
qualifications under that we could pick up maybe as much as two million dollars under that grant. It is a
fifty percent grant and I think, I know it is optimism to be hoping for that money but, from what they told
us a lot of communities that put in for the grant money are not using up all of the money that they put in
for. Some of the communities have chosen to go against the, continue their eligibility for the grant monies
because they decided to re-open fore instance. So, there seems to be money that apparently is opening up
in that area that we may be able to keep eligibility for. That is one reason to continue down, to map a, for
the town to map a strategy that it keeps...
UNKNOWN-I am talking strategy and I am talking negotiations and I am talking...
Attorney Dusek-And I am thinking in terms of ...
UNKNOWN-reality and I am talking about looking at it maybe you have to ignore some laws or maybe
you have to threaten to ignore some laws ...
Attorney Dusek-Well, you know, I think
UNKNOWN-Washington County got in trouble because they listened, they got pushed around by DEC and
they came across with some of the best plans that were available in the State and they have been sited for it.
They have got a great trash law and recycling and all the other things they did and they just burnt
themselves. I was very much aware of what was going on over there.
Attorney Dusek-But in addition to doing that though, in addition
UNKNOWN-Other towns, I can just go on, other towns in other parts of the State fought harder and didn't
get influenced by Big Brother and fought back and got relief from some of these closure orders, are going
to fare better than some of the other communities and hard ball is an option and I do not say it is the right
way to go but I think everybody should be aware of what the options are and it is a viable negotiating
strategy that has worked in part with DEC and maybe can work in this instance if we are not afraid to stand
up and say ha you are not going to push us around we are willing to say, you know, we are not going to
take it anymore, and what can they do is what I am asking what can they actually do? What do we stand to
lose.
Attorney Dusek-Well, the one area that Mike covered I have covered the grant the other area is the Federal
Regulations will come into play and they will have an impact on you as far as costs, DEC could also start
law suits against for violation of the consent order because it is part of the terms and provisions in that, they
can immediately come down with a court order closing your landfill.
UNKNOWN-We are already talking about fighting them on that.
Attorney Dusek-In terms of, I am encouraging the Town in terms of negotiating with DEC not to negotiate
from a position of weakness but from a position of strength but I think, that is what you got to do you got to
get in and negotiate and map out a strategy that will, that doesn't cut off sources of revenue. Like, if the
grant money is going to be there preserve it if you can, bring in another source of revenue and that is
acceptable to DEC to close the landfill with and it is practical and it is economical for the Town, then go
that route. These are the types of things that we are pushing with DEC, we are trying to push very logical
strong compelling arguments on them as to why we should go the way we go when it comes time as part of
the closure plan that Dick will be developing if there are any variances that we qualify for get those as well.
Here again, as we mentioned earlier, I think that the issue here is not so much do we or don't we close the
landfill, we are closing the landfill everybodies says that the question is ...
UNKNOWN-It is a matter of dollars and cents here.
Attorney Dusek-And that is the goal I think for the Town, that is the goal to be able to try to map out a
strategy which is what we are really trying to do that is why I took the time to go out, I went to a couple of
these conferences now, already, one was a Thursday evening a few weeks ago the other one I spent a good
chunk of Friday at the conference trying to pick up as much as I could in terms of information to help the
Town as well as talking with DEC officials so that, to help us map a strategy that will work for the Town to
close this out and the goal of course is, is close this out without not incurring significant taxpayers expense.
That is the goal here. I think to that extent we are in agreement, can you just simply go and avoid certain
laws?
UNKNOWN-I do not suggest that, I bring it up because I heard a gentleman here in the audience say ok,
throw our hands up lets do it, we said we were going to do it, give into them and do it now, the State will
push you around all day long.
Mr. Kenny-I did not say give in, I said the sludge, they want to bring sludge and Rolite in and hazardous
material we cannot bring in today all I am saying is get that approved so we can start bring that in start
putting it in the landfill tomorrow. That is what they are asking for this local law says amend the law...
UNKNOWN-What kind of environmental effect will Rolite have on our environment?
Mr. Kenny-the sludge they say none on.
Councilman Caimano- Weare getting out of hand here.
Supervisor Brandt-Wait a..hang on...one at a time, come on up and talk to us.
Councilman Caimano-First of all, I would like to find out what this gentlemen's name, what is your name?
Mr. Howard Denison-My name is Howard Denison I live up offfrom East Sunnyside. I live in the area, I
am very familiar with the landfill.
Councilman Caimano-My next question is you had some things to say about people who had done, what
you cited was other people upstate or down state whatever you said if you have solid evidence of that then
you ought to give it to the Supervisor's Office or to
Mr. Denison-I think they are already are quite aware of what is going on in the other communities,...the
closures of their landfills and certainly what is going on in Washington County where they were pushed
around, and they gave in.
Supervisor Brandt-Let me, quick answer, one of the things you brought up Howard
Mr. Denison-I would be glad to give those, site those times.
Supervisor Brandt-The thought you bring forward of taking control of our own waste stream and handling
it in our own landfill so that we generate the money to close has certainly occurred to me. Certainly, if it is
somewhat the responsibility of the City of Glens Falls and the Town of Queensbury those two bodies are
the population base of the County so, if the representatives of those two communities wanted to change the
County Law they could do it as fast as you can change the law. Ok. The real questions are all the litigation
that comes from that and we have discussed that and maybe I am getting conservative in my older age but I
do not want to walk into a law suit that you are not going to win and what's going to happen on the County
level if they change the waste stream back to us then they got contracts with the bum plant and which can
also be enormously expensive, so to them which way is worse is it worse to, who should they fight? What
should they do? I think it is a very confusing picture and I think it is going to be hard to sell everybody on
Mr. Denison-You have a real issue that the bum plant might not be around a year from now.
Supervisor Brandt -unfortunately it will be here, the question is who owns it and what waste stream is
coming to it.
Mr. Denison-You make an assumption like a lot of other assumptions were made before and I would
generally agree with you that you are correct in that assumption but that is an assumption that does have a
possibility of, and maybe 20% in my opinion of not coming to be. There is a 20% in my opinion that trash
plant will not be operating a year or two from now. It may be a little bit wild because of the amount of
money that is involved in it but you are going to see in some of these law suits come down some things
that you are not going to believe where this all started from and I will just leave that for the moment.
Councilman Caimano-We cannot be making decision based on this town, based upon 20% probability
however.
Mr. Denison-You make, I mean not you when I say you I am talking about the Town made decisions on
information that they assume to be true a couple of years ago, that information tumed out in fact to be not
true. So, I think when you are looking and I am not saying you base it on the 20% but I believe you have to
make a decision with that in the background that, that is a possibility and I give you a 20% in my opinion
you may have as a Board and a Town a two or three percent or five percent and that is an opinion you are
going to make yourselves but, other boards have made opinions that they felt they were 100% sure and
tumed out to be they were 100% wrong.
Councilman Tucker-It is all a guessing game right now, anyway, it really is a guessing game.
Mr. Denison-It is and maybe what I am saying excuse me, is that, that 20% or 5% or 2% I do not care, it is
there ok, and maybe you need to bring that to DEC and realize that, the time may help you where. You do
have a good argument because of these law suits that are going on with the Trash Plant that may not be
open. I do not think anybody can sit here and say definitely it will be open to you and I do not care if it is
eighty million or a hundred million dollars that we are talking about because when some of the facts come
out as I believe they will be those contracts could be broken in a flash and the Counties can walk away with
it...
Councilman Caimano-We are off in never never land here.
Supervisor Brandt-That does not impact, it does impact us unfortunately
Mr. Denison-It does impact us and you do not have the flow control and you do not have what you were
saying that Warren County is going to be out on a limb over the contracts with the plant.
Supervisor Brandt -Let's just say that all those contracts went poof now the people that put up the money the
bond holders would own the plant. So, then they could run it and so you might have a plant that they own
and they operate and they bring waste from other places which we have no control over and that might be
the very worst thing that could happen. Because,
Mr. Denison-Why
Supervisor Brandt -supposing they brought in the worst waste stream you could find and bum it here
Mr. Denison-They still have got to bring them to Washington, Warren County roads.
Supervisor Brandt-I am not sure you are getting interstate commerce, anyhow
Mr. Denison-We did it anyway, we did it now, you said you cannot bring it in from anyplace else?
Supervisor Brandt-I would be glad to talk about that later privately and you can advise we any which way
and I will be glad to carry it forth on the County Level.
Mr. Denison-I do not sit here and try to advise you I sit here to bring you ideas that you may have not
looked at before, and bring them out to the publics eye so that they understand what may happen a year or
two from now and what the realities are.
Supervisor Brandt - I would love to have the bond holders own that plant and be out of it that would be
delightful and start from there.
Mr. Denison-Your wish may come true.
Supervisor Brandt-But, we have a long ways to go. In the back of the room. Come on right up so we can
get you on the record.
Then it will be part of an official record.
Ms. Melanie Rye-My name is Melanie Rye, I live on Fox Road in Queensbury. When we talked about
going ahead with the Rolite I have a great concern pertaining to the research of chemical reaction between
this Rolite and what is already existing in the landfill. Has there been any investigation any research done
as to what is going to happen from that point?
Supervisor Brandt-Melanie, we do not have all the answers to that. What has to happen there is if we are
going to use Rolite we have to work it out with DEC. What we really need to do is to go after a beneficial
use permit or determination as they call it. All this stuff has to be evaluated. There is a lot of basic
research that was done that data has never been evaluated by anyone in an official capacity or with the
background to evaluate it on these things that has to be done. That is what we are asking DEC to do. We
are asking them to consider this and look at it, so far they have refused to do that. Simply,
Ms. Rye-Why is that?
Supervisor Brandt -We think because of the stigma that you start with the product of incinerator ash. We
think that they hate like hell for face the publics wrath over dealing with incinerator ash.
Ms. Rye-Don't you think that is a legitimate concern of residents within the area?
Supervisor Brandt-It certainly a concern.
Councilman Caimano-How do we know unless somebody actually does the work to test it.
Ms. Rye-That is what I meant.
Supervisor Brandt-It has to be a concern, there is no question of that because we know there is heavy
metals in it. We know that, there are tests on it the question is are those heavy metals now retum into
essentially the state of chemistry of the ore that they came from which are naturally occurring in the ground
and if they are and will they migrate in the chemistry of that landfill if they won't then it may be pretty
innoxious maybe it is not a problem if they will it is certainly isn't something that we want to do. So, we
have to learn all that we do not have those answers we have a lot of test data and we have gone to DEC and
said please look at it. SUNY on Long Island has done some work has done some work on it, a bunch a
people have done some work on it, but all that work has to be gathered together and evaluated. Petty tough
for us to do, but we are asking them to do that. We are asking them to consider this as a process as a viable
answer if it works tell us.
Councilman Caimano- That is the frustrating part. Just suppose, just suppose this is really the answer, that
this simple thing is really the answer. Why won't you meaning DEC test it, find out if this is in fact a
benign thing which is the answer to our problem. ..
Ms. Rye-They won't do it?
Councilman Caimano- No.
Supervisor Brandt -DEC outright tells us that the ash as it is coming out of that bum plant is less of a threat
then most, many of the things we are already putting in our landfill. It is more benign than most, than
many of the things we are putting in our landfill.
Councilman Caimano-the quantities
Ms. Rye-That is my concern being a resident of that particular area, there is so much stuff in there to begin
with and then we are going to take an iffy situation and put it on top of it.
Supervisor Brandt -We are not going put an iffy situation on it, if it is iffy we are not going to do it.
Ms. Rye-ok...
Supervisor Brandt-That is what I am telling you by changing this law doesn't mean that we are going to do
it. It allows us the mechanism to do it then this Board is going to have to sit down and make that
determination that is going to do it and we have to have the permission ofDEC to do it. All those things
have to be in place isn't that correct?
Attorney Dusek-I might that is true and I might also mention that the, I think the Boards letter to DEC that
was authorized sometime ago really says it all and that is the Board asked DEC for their help in connection
with this Rolite, they indicated in the letter that if it was something that was hazardous they certainly did
not want it. But on the other hand if it was something that was useful they did want to take advantage of it
and further the letter also my recollection was they offered some sort of test or safety measurers to be used
in conjunction with it. There are any number of things that could be added to that process to make sure that
it is a, you just don't throw something in there that ends up being a hazard and then cannot go back and get
it out or cannot take some corrective measures. That aspect of it was generally addressed in that letter to
DEC. So, these are the types of things that are in fact being looked at or at least asked DEC to look at.
Councilman Caimano-In a sense this law does what Mr. Denison and Mr. Salvadore want us to do it pushes
the envelope a little bit it forces something. That is what this law does. It says we are going to do this, and
we are kind of daring somebody to say you can't.
Supervisor Brandt-We saying please give us facts, of why we should not do this. Rather than to say we are
going bring you all the facts... we are saying evaluate this on the basis of its merits, look at all the stuff on
our behalf and the Rolite people are asking for the same thing. The Town of Islip is asking for the same
thing and the Town of Huntington is asking for the same thing and we are all trying to get DEC to do it, tell
us. Only on a scientific basis not on an emotional basis.
Councilman Caimano-We cannot keep going on, and on in Dorothy and Toto world and hoping that
something is going to happen. We have to take a stand we do not know if the stand is 100% right. All we
are saying is we are going to take a stand now you help us determine whether it is right or not.
Supervisor Brandt-The key that we look at is if Rolite is right if it is innoxious if it works in one year it
produces a million five hundred thousand dollars worth of margin, that is a lot of money and that's money
we are spending at the bum plant now, that we are paying for. So, if we can save that, and put it toward our
closure and if it does not harm us why wouldn't we look at that.
Ms. Rye-Ok. Thank you.
Supervisor Brandt -Come on right up and talk to us. So, that we have got it on the record.
Margaret Lucas-This Rolite material has to be encapsulated doesn't it?
Supervisor Brandt-No. Rolite material what you are doing with Rolite is you are taking ash raw ash and
you are processing it in a tumble mill I do not know what you call it a what do you call it?
Councilman Caimano-A mill.
Supervisor Brandt-A mill where you are adding cement to it. And what you end up making like a pea
gravel or even finer and where you encapsulated the ash in cement.
Ms. Lucas-The same thing, isn't it?
Supervisor Brandt-And then that material then the cement remember has a chemistry to it and it changes
the chemistry of the ash. Hopefully when you are all done you have got a product and there seems to be a
body of information that won't leach its heavy metal out anymore.
Ms. Lucas-In otherwords it is a permanent solution, that is what all the people of Jenkinsville and the area
are concerned of what ten years, fifteen years down the line what
Supervisor Brandt -Also understand in a closure what you do is finish putting your landfill material down
then you put a layer of this Rolite if that is what we are going to do and then you put a layer of plastic or
clay on top of that and then you put more clay on top of that and then you put soil on top of that. So, the
ground, and you still end up with it rounded off so first the water runs off secondly it doesn't come through
all of those impervious membranes so it should not be flowing through the Rolite at all. It is used as part of
the closure.
Ms. Lucas-Is this similar to what they did a Ciba Geigy up there?
Supervisor Brandt-No. This is a process that is being developed and being tested in Islip and we went
down and looked at it, unfortunately you cannot look at a big piece that is all finished. They are making the
material, there.
Ms. Lucas-I understand, this has never really been done anywhere then.
Supervisor Brandt-It has been done for several years but not as a final product, in otherwords they have
made Rolite, they have piled it up and unfortunately their contracts for spreading it and finish closure are
not that far along.
Ms. Lucas-In otherwords, it is just the beginning... something that they are just starting to do.
Supervisor Brandt-Right. We would like to look at it and see if it is part of the answer. If it isn't, it isn't,
but if it isn't that is a million five we have got to find some other place.
Ms. Lucas-Also, if in saying you are going to put water in just one area, I can see that eventually you are
going to have people wanting water and that water district is going to have, who is going to pay for that?
Supervisor Brandt - I think what we have to study that is another whole question, first of all is there enough
information and enough evidence that we should tax the general public to put water out there at all? Ok,
and secondly how big an area should we do? Good questions.
Ms. Lucas-All the people, it is going to be kind of a spreading thing.
Supervisor Brandt-Well, that, then there again what is the geology how far will it spread? And as far
Ms. Lucas-I mean as far as people
Councilman Caimano-No People wanting water it will spread.
Supervisor Brandt -Oh, well, you know they can always tie in I guess and pay the price, then how big of
pipe mains you put in and all that, I do not know. We do not have all those answers today we are not really
trying to address them yet. We started.
Ms. Lucas-If water is expensive as I have heard it is, it is going to be substantially increase our tax bills is
that right?
Supervisor Brandt-I cannot give you an answer that's meaningful there yet. But we will have to and we
certainly will.
Mr. David Kenny-Mr. David Kenny, Town of Queensbury, All this local law is saying, today on the Town
of Queensbury you are not allowed to accept waste stream outside of the County. All you are asking us to
do is to change the law so you can, you know you need more waste stream. Whether it be in the form of
sludge, Rolite or anything.
Attorney Dusek-Not anything, it is only three things, C&D, Sludge or Rolite.
Mr. Kenny-So you are trying to create which we know we need within the next six months someway to get
for refuge to the landfill whatever it may be more material.
Attorney Dusek-If! had to guess it from the law end of it my guess is, is that if the Town did enact this
local law there would be a very good chance that very quickly you would get in the C&D and the Sludge.
Those are the two things that I think, and that is going to help with revenues that you need between now
and October to close out the landfill. Those things I see happening quickly based upon every thing and
Mike you can correct me if you think I am wrong but those are the two that I see most likely. Now, how
much it will be, how much money that is hard to say but at least it opens up a door for
Mr. Kenny-It opens up something and gives you a way of raising money for when we do have to close the
landfill in six months. That is all I am saying is the local, the public hearing is on today seems like the only
logical step that the Town Board has to take. This money, we should have done it six months ago we need
the material we know we are not going to generate within the County with the local law we have in effect
today we can't even go outside the County and bring refuse in. So, you just asking to change that so you
can look outside the County to bring the material in, I do not even know what we are discussing here, go
ahead and do it, we need the stuff.
Supervisor Brandt-Dave, it is a great chance to tell the public what is going on because we are shooting at.
Mr. Kenny-I trust you, I elected you people, I do not think you are bring something in that is going to be
toxic or you looking to do the best job for us and save us as much money as possible. But, at this point in
time we do have to get the local law changed so we can investigate bring outside County material into the
County...we are crazy if we don't.
Councilman Caimano-It is nice that you say that and I like that but so do the people in Washington County
feel the same way about the people in the trash plant.
Mr. Kenny-We have to take care of ourselves, we have, we are not worried about Washington County we
are worried about the Town of Queensbury.
Councilman Caimano-No, I mean you are a nice pat on the back.
Mr. Salvadore-Can you pass this local law and delete the Rolite from it?
Supervisor Brandt-We can still delete the Rolite any time we want to.
Mr. Salvadore-Can you pass this local law and delete, I am saying delete Rolite pass local law for only
C&D and Paper Mill Sludge.
Supervisor Brandt-We can do that.
Mr. Salvadore-That would be my recommendation. On the subject of Rolite, I think it is appreciated that
this incinerator ash is not chemically very homogenous.
Supervisor Brandt-I cannot tell you that.
Mr. Salvadore-Mike.
Supervisor Brandt -You are saying different waste streams, different days, different hours, it can differ sure,
sure it can.
Mr. Salvadore-Ok, how is that going to be incorporated in any testing in any analysis you do? How do you.
Supervisor Brandt - I think that stops in the operation of the bum plant and from what I have seen of it is that
you are testing the flue gasses automatically and adjusting the amount of calcium hydrate that goes into the
gas stream and you end up with a you pretty constant PH coming out of there which does effect in effect
reflect the difference in waste stream. I'll propose or pretend to be an expert in it but my guesstimate is
that, that is already somewhat adjusted. That does not mean that the waste stream coming out one day has
more cadmium or more lead in it that it does another day it does. But, if it always got a certain PH and that
PH is on a negative side maybe we are already taken care of the worse of the problem.
Councilman Caimano- There is also something else to consider here to and that is the old great normal
curve comes into play here to while it may not be homogeneous certainly the amount and types and
percentages of the heavy metals will be in some proportion that is readily discernable. Readily discernable.
Mr. Salvadore-Not at all.
Councilman Caimano-I disagree with you John.
Supervisor Brandt-John, there are tests and they have to do tests on it.
Mr. Salvadore-I just want to be sure that, that is right in any studies that are done that that is addressed.
Secondly you have no control over the feed stock to that plant, five years, ten years down the line, you have
absolutely no control.
Supervisor Brandt -First of all I do not see this going on for more than a year, year and a half at the very
most.
Mr. Salvadore-You have no control at any time, in any case.
Supervisor Brandt-We do here, we can stop Rolite the day this Board decides to stop Rolite.
Mr. Salvadore-Oh, ok.
Supervisor Brandt-That would be totally in the control of this board.
Mr. Salvadore-You will not have some long term contract that only ...
Supervisor Brandt-No, no
Mr. Salvadore-Day to day you can do it.
Supervisor Brandt-That is right.
Mr. Salvadore-They will enter into that kind of a contract.
Supervisor Brandt-Well, that is a good question but that is the determination of this board we do not go to
someone else for authority.
Councilman Caimano-Before John goes away, I made a statement there can you say anything about that,
regarding the percentage, yea.. .Dick Morse.
Mr. Dick Morse-The only data that is out there is studies that they have been doing for approximately a
year and a half to two years on ash from the Huntington incinerator and the Islip incinerator that is really,
that is the only data stream we have.
Councilman Caimano- Who is they?
Mr. Dick Morse-The Rolite Company and under their BUD permit with DEC and SUNY at Stoney Brook I
believe...and then we have our own data stream that we have been trying to overlay on theirs.
Supervisor Brandt-We can see fore instance there is a big difference in the ash coming out of those
incinerators than this one, frankly we have got a better incinerator. No question of that.
Mr. Salvadore-Does the recycling program have something to do with it?
Councilman Caimano-Sure. I think.
Supervisor Brandt-I do not know I cannot tell you but, the design of the incinerator has a lot to do with it
too, it is a later model and a better design incinerator but that's has not much to do with this law.
Mr. Salvadore-I would recommend that you delete Rolite from the Local Law and confine it to C&D and
Paper Mill Sludge.
Supervisor Brandt-But, you are the one that usually wants to push the envelope.
Mr. Salvadore-Push what?
Supervisor Brandt-The envelope. You are saying don't look, don't open our, don't look at Rolite.
Mr. Salvadore-Your options, I want to keep options open.
Supervisor Brandt-That is all we are doing.
Mr. Salvadore-Ok, you can proceed. You do not have to, do you need Rolite in this local law to proceed
with your studies?
Councilman Caimano-No. But, that is part of the envelope pushing.
Supervisor Brandt-That allows us to, if we don't adopt a law that allows Rolite then why would we ask for
the study?
Mr. Salvadore-Because it is an option down the street, down the road.
Supervisor Brandt-Why don't we keep the option open now.
Mr. Salvadore-It is open you do not need the local law to keep it open.
Councilman Tucker-..you won't they will come back and say...you don't even have a law to use it we an't
even going to let you use it.
Mr. Salvadore-You can change that from one day to the next.
Supervisor Brandt-No, it takes time, it is a lot of work.
Mr. Denison-I will step up to the microphone the shy guy that I am. I have just maybe a different opinion
on the things that you are proposing to allow there, paper sludge I do not see a problem with, we are pretty
familiar with it in the area. It doesn't seem to have any harm contaminants to the enviromnent. The Rolite
again if the studies prove out the way we are hoping that they would prove out it seems to be a viable
alternative to bring in material into the landfill. We do not have control over what goes into the incinerator
here too much or the ones in other counties. But, if the contaminants get sealed with concrete and they are
not going to have leaching through them then I think we have pretty good control or could feel
environmentally that they are going to be safe. The construction debris brings a problem in my mind is that
we do not have any control outside of the guy that is at the gate at the landfill as to what goes into those
dump trucks that get dumped into the landfill. You can throw a battery or two that is pretty harmful to the
environment underneath a load of debris and nobody is going to be able to see it. Again, if that same
battery goes into the landfill, into the incinerator and gets burnt goes into Rolite, gets encapsulated into the
cement then we stand a pretty good chance it is not going to leach into our groundwater. So, I have a
concern over the construction material going into it and what control we would have over that, because it is
going to go straight into the landfill and could leach out a lot easier than your Rolite. So..
Councilman Tucker-To answer your question DEC regulate what goes in, in construction debris and
gentleman right here from the landfill and these loads are dumped and spread out, they know what goes in
there.
Supervisor Brandt-As well as they know the other stuff that is brought there which is we do not know all
that well. I mean you can put batteries in what you are sending to us now and I bet they did not find them.
Mr. Denison-But there is an incentive in construction to get rid of your materials as cheap as possible
where the average homeowner may have a little bit better feeling, I would be guarded against having
dumped loads, dump truck loads of material coming into the landfill without any control basically outside
after they get dumped over and your machinery it uses rather large and a lot of that stuff can just get pushed
under and there is a lot of it in there now. We know that, my concern is bring more in and again I would
state that the closing of the landfill is probably the best thing that we can do, as soon as we can do it. We
are sitting here talking about how we are going to pay for it. What chances we want to take in order to save
the Town money. That is really what we are talking about is dollars and cents here. Not whether it should
be closed.
Supervisor Brandt-I tell you something that goes along with what you are saying C&D waste will bring the
least amount of money in.
Mr. Denison-OK.
Supervisor Brandt -So, that kind of fits exactly what you are saying which is interesting.
Mr. Denison- I just bring it up as a concern and the idea is to close it as soon as we can, we need money to
close it what risks and what chances are we willing to take to close it. We cannot close it tomorrow we do
not have the money. It would be perfect if we had four million dollars and somebody and Uncle Sam gave
it to us we would all be in agreement that we would close it tomorrow. We cannot do that so, how do we do
it and not strap the town too much financially so we are going to be looking for compromises here, I think
that is the purpose of what the Board is trying to do. Find compromises between our enviromnental
concerns and our financial concerns and still dealing with the DEC to get them maybe off our back and
give us a break so that we can do it financially intelligent way. I wish you the best of luck.
Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else come on right up.
Mr. John Walker-My name is John Walker, I listened to all of this paper mill sludge being brought in and
put on there, if paper mill sludge is a legal cover to put on there why has Finch Pruyn for the last several
years spent millions of dollars in testing and so on and so forth with the State of New York to get rid of
their sludge?
Supervisor Brandt-John, Finch Pruyn's paper sludge is different than the paper sludge that we are looking at
for our landfill. We know that it is a different process of making paper and it has different chemistry. It is
more complex and that is why we are not talking to them about..
Mr. Walker-Perhaps if you did, in the State of Maine the farmers can take this same type of sludge that
Finch Pruyn has and buy it up and spread it on their fields for fertilizer. Your loggers or your landowners
property owners in the State of Maine can have it boned back into the woods to regenerate with. Perhaps
we ought to be helping Finch Pruyn a little bit a company that supports this Town and the City of Glens
Falls and the County of Warren and probably Washington and so on perhaps we ought to lend these people
a hand and maybe their product would be helpful to us as well.
Supervisor Brandt-I, well we certainly want to help Finch Pruyn but also understand that they have a
different problem with their material than these other paper mills.
Mr. Walker-Again, I am saying though if they had a little help and a little more push they might be able to
bring some of their product here to. Because in other states it is used.
Councilman Tucker-To point out to you Encor they recycle paper all three of these mills we are talking to
recycle paper.
Mr. Walker-They do not use the wood pulp.
Councilman Tucker-I do not know all of the
Mr. Walker-They do not use the wood pulp.
Councilman Caimano-It is not the wood pulp problem it is the coating, John. It is the Finch Pruyn makes a
very, very high grade coated piece of paper and that is what is causing the problem.
Mr. Walker-What I am saying is they make it from the raw product.
They make it from the wood base, your other companies are not. Your other companies are bring in not
using the wood fiber.
Councilman Tucker-So, what we have been told is that it is because they are doing it with recycled
materials the chemicals are not there.
Mr. Walker-Again, I am saying there are other States that are using this same type of sludge that Finch
Pruyn is producing openly.
Attorney Dusek-This local law would certainly not prohibit the Town or at least would open the doors so
the Town Board could approach Finch Pruyn if they could make their paper sludge compatible to what they
could use this local law would not prevent that but its, that would be up to the Town Board to explore with
Finch Pruyn.
Supervisor Brandt-There is still another answer that we have not talked about and maybe we shouldn't
but..ok, supposing you start closing this landfill and lets say you run until essentially the end of September
and then you start closing it and use paper mill sludge to close it, and you get a year to close it and
supposing you still a million and a half to two million dollars short of what you need it is possible the State
could say ok, instead of putting eighteen inches or two feet of paper mill sludge that you put four feet or six
feet or eight feet and you run it for a couple of more years and derive that income stream and help the paper
industry at the same time and use it as part of the closure but nobody is going to commit to that today and
so maybe we are taking the first step toward a long process hopefully we can work together with these
people and find a common sense answer that helps industry, helps us and helps us all. That is what we are
trying to do and maybe that is brazen to put right on the table but I am going to tell you that is what we are
trying to do.
Mr. Walker-I think there is something else to be considered here to, you are talking about C&D you already
have a landfill right behind your landfill that private enterprise spent a lot of money and a lot of time to get
the proper permits and to operate this properly, what are you going to do run him out of business for a
couple of years? Tell him to put his business on hold.
Supervisor Brandt -You would that is fact, you would do that for a year. If we took C&D until September
you would be right, we are in competition with him right now and you would be in tough competition with
him.
Mr. Walker-I think to, that there was a time that we would not take C&D and I think that was one of the
reasons one of the reasons that prompted this man to investigate the possibility of starting his own small
business.
Councilman Tucker-Is that true Jim?
Mr. Walker-That gives
Councilman Tucker-Was there a time that we didn't take C&D?
Mr. Jim Coughlin-We always took C&D it was stumps that we put it into taking the stumps from all the
clearing jobs, which I supposed is considered C&D...
UNKNOWN-Just out of Queensbury.
Mr. Coughlin-That is correct.
Mr. Walker-So we are kind of giving private enterprise small businessman a kick in the pants to.
Supervisor Brandt-Yup, that is a fact.
Mr. Walker-That is all I have.
Councilman Caimano- Thank you.
Supervisor Brandt-Thank you, anyone else?
Mrs. Bridget McLaughlin-I was just making a couple of notes here, I am Bridget McLaughlin I am Scott's
wife I did not bring my glasses, they are back there. I went to the meeting down Friday, down in Albany,
and there was a man there, I thought I recognized him as a local man but maybe not, so he had a question
for, it was one of the fellows cause I remember you could jump from one room to another room in the four
different workshops. The fellow took his hand and he said ok, now let's say there is a landfill and it goes
like this and makes like this and they want to fill this with C&D. What would you require? I mean if, well
let me continue, if it is two acres or over they are going to require a liner and I mean, I do not know I really
have no idea how much area you are looking, you are looking to cover. Has that been talked about whether
or not this is going to need a liner? Is it more than two acres?
Mr. Coughlin-We are accepted as long as we stay on the footprint of the landfill, which is thirty some odd
acres. Thirty eight acres.
Mrs. McLaughlin-This fellow that asked this question he, they did not say if ands or buts. They just said,
you know, because it is going to tum into three acres that they are going to reclassify them instead of three
classifications there is only going to be two classifications. So that was one thing I wanted to ask, another
thing I wanted to ask was, with this new town law with you taking everything from the County of Warren is
this going to mandate for all the counties in Warren County and I am asking that because of our business
that is all, I am saying does that mean that everything in Warren County has to come directly to you and
we can forget our permit for Warren County?
Attorney Dusek-This is not a flow control law. This, what this law is designed to do is open up the doors
so the towns can negotiate with other people. Now, fore instance if they negotiate with the other towns
and they could make that a condition in a subsequent agreement with another town that that town brings
everything all the C&D, but this local law is not like Warren County's Flow control if that is what you are
thinking.
Mrs. McLaughlin-When you sayan agreement with the other towns is the public going to be enlightened
with these meetings, or is this going to be just one of these meetings over on Route 9 that nobody is
notified about?
Attorney Dusek-Well, ultimately the negotiations with the towns if they occur among the attorneys there is
no rule that says that they have to be open to the public. If however, when they come for discussion before
the various Town Boards they would have to be done in public session. But, there is no legal mandate for a
public hearing or anything like that if that is what you are referring to on the agreements.
Mrs. McLaughlin-Then the people could be
Councilman Caimano- What meeting on Route 9 that nobody knows about?
Mrs. McLaughlin-Well these is meetings like, I remember when the Pickle Hill Road sewage thing was
going on and people were trying to run around and find out whether it was for Nine O'Clock or quarter
to ten or ten thirty and you go to the meeting and the meeting was half over with and it was just kind of a
mess and there was a lot of gossip and that is all I am going to say it was kind of gossip over there...county
level, no, no, I am sorry, it is not you.
Councilman Tucker-Mam, you know there is a law already requiring the Towns in Warren County to bring
their C&D waste to our landfill you know that, don't you.
Mrs. McLaughlin-No, I did not know that.
Councilman Tucker-Yea, there is. What this is, isn't there?
Mrs. McLaughlin-No, I do not think there is because we do business with the Town of Bolton the Town of
Hague.
Attorney Dusek-There is no law that says that they have to bring C&D to our landfill, no.
Mrs. McLaughin-I will also mention that
Councilman Tucker-What is the law, that we have got with the Towns right now in Warren County.
Supervisor Brandt-By pass waste, right they have to bring to us.
Attorney Dusek-First of all we do not have any laws that effect the other towns we have an agreement with
the other towns and the agreement provides I think everything except C&D, we said we would not take
C&D from any of the towns.
Mrs. McLaughlin-I think you are right.
Attorney Dusek-That is my recollection, I go back and check the agreement for you but I think that was the
whole thing, we said we did not want it.
Councilman Tucker-Everything but C&D.
Attorney Dusek -Yea.
Mrs. McLaughlin-Ok, well I guess that is all I wanted to say.
Supervisor Brandt-Well, I will tell you one thing and I think I talked to your husband the other day, is that I
guess if I had my way of doing it, if it could be pulled together we close this landfill at the end of
September and never open it again but just go through the closure process. At that point we certainly
would need C&D landfills but up to the point if we are after, if it is the decision of this Board is to go after
more C&D, we will go after more C&D now that could be from Ticonderoga, that could be from other
places, on the other hand the argument was made and it is a decent argument that is the thing you have got
the least control over. Well, I do not know.
Mrs. McLaughlin-Yes, I know.
Supervisor Brandt-This law would enable us to do those things, but at least you know we put it on the table
what we are doing.
Mrs. McLaughlin-Ok. Thank you.
Supervisor Brandt-Thank you. Anyone else?
Mrs. McLaughlin-Just one more thing I wanted to say about the water. We have got a and I think Scott
also mentioned to you when you are talking putting water up there. Water is needed up there, I do not
know some of the tests have come back and said that the water is perfectly all right and another fellow on
Mud Pond sent his out of state and came back that it was pure. But, there is another fellow that we have
told him to bring a gallon of this water down and ask you if you would like to have a drink of it because
this water you cannot even see through it and he has been carting his own water for I do not know, a few
years. So, you do need the water there from
Supervisor Brandt-And that house is one of the closest to the landfill isn't it?
Mrs. McLaughlin-Yea. yea, you need it, you know, I think you do because there is alot of water tricking
underneight there.
Councilman Monahan-Is that water, one the places that was tested?
Mrs. McLaughlin-I do not know.
Supervisor Brandt-I do not think it was.
Mrs. McLaughlin-I do not think it was.
Supervisor Brandt-And maybe we ought to test it.
Mrs. McLaughlin-I think you should test it for him, I think you know who it is and ..
Councilman Monahan-Because, they did do a lot of testing, we went with them ...
Mrs. McLaughlin-This one fellow sent it clear to Chicago or someplace so that, and it came back perfect.
But then you move..
Mrs. McLaughlin-So then two or three houses down you cannot even see through this water you cannot
even see through it, it is gross.
Supervisor Brandt-I heard about this your husband told me and maybe we would be smart
Mrs. McLaughlin-So, you do need the water.
Supervisor Brandt-to sample that and run a test on it and see what is there.
Councilman Monahan-Do you know how far down his well is?
Mrs. McLaughlin-No I don't. Mike will tell you and maybe you do want to test it, just so you do not leave
yourself wide open or something. Thank you.
Supervisor Brandt-Thank you. Anyone else
Ms. Marianne Potter-I am Marianne Potter and I live on Boulderwood Drive and you have talked about this
Rolite and the ash and you talk about the bum plant testing and everything, to me everything about the bum
plant has been wrong or gone wrong and not been run well and so forth and so on. How do you know the
testing is all right, who does it?
Supervisor Brandt-An independent laboratory that they by law must send to who are not one of their labs it
is a State approved lab and I have seen the results of some of those tests they are, I cannot tell you the name
of the laboratory but, by law DEC makes them send to an independent laboratory that must certify the
results.
Ms. Potter-That sounds reasonable. But, there again, you were discussing it before of what goes in there.
Now, the bum plant controls that.
Supervisor Brandt-Not totally either.
Ms. Potter-Alright, who does and how do they control it, these are my questions.
Supervisor Brandt-It really ...control. If you want to know the honest truth you do not know what it in
those trucks that come in
Ms. Potter-Right.
Supervisor Brandt -are there car batteries in it, sure there can be, are there, you know those are not good
things to have run through, they are not supposed to be but are they in one of the containers, you do not
open every container and look in everything, so certainly it can happen and when you are importing
garbage the further away you get it from the less control you have. One of the best arguments in controlling
that plant is controlling the waste stream, if you took northern Saratoga County and out areas where you are
doing some recycling and you educate people to keep their flashlight batteries out and their car batteries out
and that type of thing you will cut down on that kind of thing. On the other hand nobody controls the waste
stream right now it's a hell of a mess the whole thing is a mess the way it is structured and it ought to be a
regional authority that works together that works with it's citizens to try and clean up the waste stream and
control it and bring it all in and process it correctly we are not there, will we ever get there, who knows?
Ms. Potter-Well, if it doesn't change though I am against it. Ok.
Supervisor Brandt -Ok.
Ms. Potter-Thank you.
Supervisor Brandt-Thank you.
Councilman Monahan-Mike, I do not know if this is true or not but maybe you do, someone told me the
other day there is not even anyone on the tipping side, attempting to check what is dumped there.
Supervisor Brandt-I do not know if there is or isn't but I know one thing if you put me on that tipping floor
to check I would quit the next day because I do not think it is possible to do it. I think that sounds good but
it sounds better than it actually is. It just, these are enormous trucks that are dumping and it is big
equipment you could not possibly look at it. Does somebody bring toxic waste in there, how the hell would
you know? You wouldn't know that is the truth and nobody is saying that but it is the truth. It can happen.
Councilman Monahan-I do not know, ...an expert in the field many years ago and he said there are some
things tell tail things that you look for you know, but as I said I do not know if that is true or not but that
was what was reported to me the other day.
Supervisor Brandt-All right.
Mr. Denison-There, most of the time, is not anyone on the tipping floor at the plant and you can get that
straight from the plant operator...
Supervisor Brandt-I am sure that is right.
Mr. Denison-It would be beneficial to have somebody there that was trained in spotting those potentials
that would be helpful to what goes out the stack regardless of the scrubbers that they have on it. I do not
know why it is not done I have my own view why I think it is not done but they are irrelevant at this point
in time. It wouldn't be a perfect solution but it would be very helpful to have somebody out there seeing
what goes in there and maybe catching a few things and knowing what truck it came out of and maybe you
know.
Supervisor Brandt-I look at that plant and I look at the driveway system going around the scales so when
you are sleeping at night do you know every truck goes through the scales? Where does the stuff come
from? I mean, my God you could run stuff around that scale without anyone knowing it went in.
Mr. Denison-Their stuff comes from all the way down State.
Supervisor Brandt-That is right. It seems strange that it was built that way to me. That is another subject.
Anyhow, anyone else on this local law? Yes.
Mr. Daniel Olson-Mike, in the discussions that I have listened to I heard something that was very alarming
to me and I want to see if I heard what you said. The present contract, the present agreement that you have
with the City of Glens Falls does not call for the City to share in any of the closure, the close out of the
landfill ?
Supervisor Brandt-It explicitly absolves them from the closure expenses.
Councilman Caimano-Just the other way around.
Mr. Olson-I am going to talk about something that you are well aware of. Because I worked with you with
this program, when the Town of Queensbury, built a consolidated what should I say a consolidated landfill
transfer stations, on Luzerne Road, transfer stations at Ridge Road, took this burden, this expensive burden
off the backs of the City of Glens Falls, the Town of Queensbury took a lot of heat and a lot of problems in
bringing this debris to Ridge Road. And it is common knowledge it has been stated we are talking years
ago Mike, which you are aware of to, that at the time the City was hauling cover material for the Mt.
Trashmore which Pliney you are well aware of
Councilman Tucker-Which isn't closed legal or anyway shape or manner.
Mr. Olson-I think you are going to find that is going to come back to the Town of Queensbury for closure
because it is within the Town of Queensbury...
Councilman Tucker-We hope it will be the Cities responsibility, we do not know.
Mr. Olson-I hope so. The City estimated the best estimates they could come up with is Two hundred to
Two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, twelve, fifteen years ago Mike for cover material just to cover the
Mt. Trashmore as it is referred to. Their open dump, which was an automatic saving to them. In the
beginning the fifty cents at the gate for the transfer stations took care of the operation and maybe there was
some money a little nominal fee for the City a nominal fee for the Town of Queensbury to take up the extra
expense. I know things have gone up in the past, in the future things are always going to go up in cost, but
the saving that, to the City of Glens Falls over these years for not operating their own landfill is millions of
dollars. I think you have to get to the table with these people and maybe you will have to play hardball
with this board that they have a responsibility to share in this closure, close out the expense along with the
Town of Queensbury.
Supervisor Brandt-We certainly expressed that in a discussion the other day.
Mr. Olson-Good.
Supervisor Brandt-But, to make it legally binding is you know I am not sure how you do that. Why we
ever put that into a contract I never understand.
Mr. Olson-You mean removed it from a contract. However it is, whatever it is, it is not good for the
residents for the Town of Queensbury.
Supervisor Brandt-That is a fact.
Mr. Olson-I will state that very firmly the Town of Queensbury people, especially these people here in
Sunnyside and Jenkinsville now are concerned about their own enviromnent which I am also but to have to
face this closure fee. That is the end of that discussion. I know you people will look into this and please
you are talking a lot of money that this Town has saved the City of Glens Falls in this operation of this joint
landfill which has been a good run operation. Any investigation been done in the machinery that set up the
operation to convert this ash to this product that you want to use at the landfill, sometimes by the time you
set up a process and start manufacturing it may cost you more than the benefits that you could have saved.
I do not know what those answers, I am just passing that on to you.
Supervisor Brandt -Yea, we have looked at that, those or portable plants they have written us and said they
will move one here in thirty days and have it set up and running. They are automated plants they are fairly
simple, I think probably they can make them work from, it is really technologically not very difficult but
Mr. Olson-The little bit I have read about it, it is also used with the cement industry in some place to add to
the...
Supervisor Brandt-It's what?
Mr. Olson-Used with the cement industry I believe in some States.
Councilman Tucker-Used concrete blocks with it in New York State.
Mr. Olson-In New York State, Pliney?
Councilman Tucker-In New York State.
Mr. Olson-It was used in some roads...thanks for your time.
Supervisor Brandt -You are welcome. Anyone else I am going to close this public hearing.
Councilman Monahan-Mike, before you do that I think we ought to put into the record this memo we got
from the Queensbury Citizens Advisory Committee on Environmental Issues and maybe Darleen will read
that.
Town Clerk-Subject: Landfill Closure Use of Rolite encapsulated incinerator ash
The Committee discussed this idea in its meeting in November 1992 and again at a meeting on
January 18, 1993. A copy of the Minutes of the latter meeting is attached and we particularly call your
attention to our comments on this topic.
Our November '92 Minutes read in part "One of the alternatives being examined is using the
incinerator ash to provide the dome needed to support the cap so that proper drainage will occur. The
Committee felt this to be a risky approach. Since the landfill is not lines, water seeping in through the cap
would pass through the ash and then percolate into the mass of the landfill itself. Certainly some leaching
would occur and the potential for chemical reactions between the ash and the landfill would occur. The
attractive features to the Town are a readily available source of material and income from providing a place
for ash disposal. However, the unknown effects of the potential reactions more than offset the pluses.
It was suggested that paper sludge is a much better possibility. Not only is some already
incorporated in the landfill (and in surrounding areas) but the material is relatively inert and free of
contaminations of major concern (like heavy metals).
Respectfully submitted,
Isl
Richard W. Sage
Secretary
cc: Environmental Committee
Supervisor Brandt-I certainly talked to Richard about that letter and I asked him if he would care to confuse
himself with the facts and look into it further and I sent him a bunch of material and there is a lot more
material to come and I hope before he knows the answer he looks at the question and whatever facts are
available. I am not sure he hasn't come to the exactly the right conclusion I am not sure his conclusion is
correct at all I do not know, but I sure would like to look at it carefully and without a preconceived notion
because if it is an innocuous answer and it is an innocuous product and it saves us a million five I think we
better look at it pretty hard. I think we should not do it just emotionally we ought to look at whatever data
is available and if we do not have enough data, cause a test to be made. Ok. With that said, anything else?
Close the Public Hearing. Thank you.
RESOLUTION TO ENACT LOCAL LAW NUMBER 5, 1993
A LOCAL LAW TO AMEND THE CODE OF THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY
CHAPTER 96, THEREOF, ENTITLED, "GARBAGE, RUBBISH AND REFUSE"
RESOLUTION NO. 97, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is desirous of enacting a Local Law to
amend the Code of the Town of Queensbury, Chapter 96, thereof, entitled, "Garbage, Rubbish and Refuse,"
to add a new section providing for an exception to the restriction that solid waste disposed of at the Landfill
be from within the Town or City of Glens Falls or under certain circumstances from outside the Town or
City, but within the County, and,
WHEREAS, a copy of the proposed Local Law has been presented at this meeting, a copy of said
Local Law also having been previously given to the Town Board at the time the Resolution was adopted
which set a date and time for a public hearing, and
WHEREAS, on February 1, 1993, a public hearing with regard to this Local Law was duly
conducted,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby enacts the proposed Local
Law to amend the Code of the Town of Queensbury, Chapter 96, thereof, entitled, "Garbage, Rubbish and
Refuse," to add a new section providing for an exception to the restriction that solid waste disposed of at
the Landfill be from within the Town or City of Glens Falls or under certain circumstances from outside the
Town or City, but within the County, and to be known as Local Law Number 5, 1993, the same to be titled
and contain such provisions as are set forth in a copy of the proposed Local Law presented at this meeting,
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury is hereby directed to file the said
Local Law with the New York State Secretary of State in accordance with the provisions of the Municipal
Home Rule Law and that said Local Law will take effect immediately upon filing and as soon as allowable
under law.
Duly adopted this 1st day of February, 1993, by the following vote:
AYES : Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mr.
Brandt
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
Councilman Monahan-I will add that I hope that we look at the Rolite very carefully and make sure that we
are airing on the side or safety when we do the examination of the process.
Supervisor Brandt-And we will look at it this Board has to make that determination only this Board makes
it and we will have to do it at a later date.
LOCAL LAW NO. 5, 1993
A Local Law to amend the Code of the Town of Queensbury, Chapter 96, thereof, entitled
"Garbage, Rubbish and Refuse," to add new sections entitled "Special Use Solid Waste Exception".
BE IT ENACTED BY THE TOWN BOARD OF THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY AS
FOLLOWS:
SECTION 1. Title.
This Local Law shall be entitled "A Local Law to amend the Code of the Town of Queensbury,
Chapter 96, thereof, entitled 'Garbage, Rubbish and Refuse,' to add new sections entitled 'Special Use Solid
Waste Exception'." The Local Law provides for an exception to the restriction that solid waste disposed of
at the Landfill be from within the Town or City of Glens Falls or under certain circumstances from outside
the Town or City but from within the County of Warren.
SECTION 2. Legislative History and Purpose.
From a review of local legislation previously adopted by the Town, it would appear that, for many
years, it was the policy of the Town of Queensbury to limit use of the Town of Queensbury Landfill to
residents of the Town of Queensbury and City of Glens Falls. It would appear that it was felt that the
Landfill was not of sufficient size for disposal of solid waste originating outside of the Town of
Queensbury and City of Glens Falls and that limiting the use of the same was in furtherance of the
protection of the residents and taxpayers of these communities (see Town of Queensbury Code, Section 96-
11). The policy of the Town would appear to have also included placing limitations on the source of solid
waste to minimize and limit the amount of land utilized for solid waste disposal and, therefore, reduce the
impacts on the enviromnent, decreased closure costs and maximize the existing facility (see Town of
Queensbury Code, Section 96-18).
In recent times, solid waste has begun to be recycled to a greater extent, thereby eliminating some
landfilling. Also, a resource recovery facility has been constructed and is currently in use and the Town is
required to send processable solid waste to that facility and thereby further eliminating the need to landfill
the same. Changes in laws, rules and regulations of the State and Federal Government have also mandated
the closure of the Town of Queensbury Landfill.
The Town Board of the Town of Queensbury notices that all of the aforedescribed events, either
together or separately, have (l) significantly reduced the amount of solid waste going to the Town of
Queensbury Landfill, (2) necessitated or will necessitate certain closure construction and acquisition of
certain fill materials for closure, (3) caused a loss of revenues from local residents, while causing the Town
to face significant costs for the required closure of the Landfill.
In order to effectively deal with the aforedescribed events and also efficiently and expeditiously
close the Landfill at a reasonable cost, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury feels it would be
appropriate to accept certain types of solid waste from outside of the Town of Queensbury and even outside
the County of Warren, for disposal at the Landfill. The reason or purpose behind wanting to accept such
solid waste is (l) that much solid waste is processed at the Adirondack Resource Recovery Facility or
recycled and, therefore, there is now found to be more space left over at the Landfill than was originally
contemplated; (2) that the types of solid waste desired to be accepted are thought to be useful in filling,
leveling and grading those areas of the Landfill that should be filled, leveled or graded prior to closure and
also useful in actual closing construction, such as for uses as gas venting material and a barrier protection
layer; and (3) that acceptance of the same would provide revenues that could be used to offset closure costs.
This Local Law is, therefore, proposed to allow the Town of Queensbury to modify its existing
Local Laws so that it may, after taking all other steps necessary to obtain any other required State or
Federal approvals and modification of agreements that may be necessary, and under circumstances more
specifically set forth herein, accept certain types of solid waste that are felt will be useful and helpful for
closure of the Landfill purposes originating from without the Town of Queensbury and outside of the
County of Warren, as well.
This legislation is intended to constitute local authorizing legislation and modify existing local
laws. Nothing herein shall be construed as a waiver of compliance with or an indication of any intended
noncompliance with State, Federal, County Law, Rule or Regulation or previously executed, valid and
enforceable agreements.
SECTION 3. Local Law Superseded and/or Amended.
The provisions of this Local Law amend and supersede Articles 3 and 4 of Chapter 96 of the Code
of the Town of Queensbury entitled "Garbage, Rubbish and Refuse".
SECTION 4. Chapter 96 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury is hereby amended to add a new section
following Section 96-15.1, to be known as Section 96-15.2, and to read as follows:
~ 96-15.2. Special Use Solid Waste Exception
A. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary set forth herein, the provisions of this Article
which restrict or limit disposal of solid waste at the Town of Queensbury Ridge Road Landfill, to that solid
waste (l) originating from residents, businesses or other sources within the boundaries of the Town of
Queensbury or City of Glens Falls or (2) outside the Town of Queensbury but within the County of Warren
under circumstances involving the use of the Landfill as a temporary consolidated landfill, shall not be
applicable to solid waste originating outside of the Town of Queensbury and/or County of Warren, which is
(l) classified or known as construction and demolition debris, as defined by DEC Regulations, paper
sludge, and/or Adirondack Resource Recovery Facility ash which will be subsequently processed into
Rolite, (2) brought into the Town of Queensbury for the purpose of disposition at the said Town of
Queensbury Landfill for grading, filling, leveling the Landfill, and for uses as gas venting material or
barrier protection material purposes, and (3) brought into or disposed of at the said Landfill in accordance
with a written agreement and upon such payment or consideration and other terms or provisions as shall be
approved by the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, as demonstrated by the adoption of an
authorizing resolution adopted by majority vote.
B. In accordance with the provisions of paragraph A hereof, the Town Board of the Town of
Queensbury may arrange for acceptance and disposal of paper mill sludge, ash from the Adirondack
Resource Recovery Facility, which will be subsequently processed into Rolite, and/or construction and
demolition debris, as defined by DEC Regulations, all materials originating or being allowed to originate
from outside the Town of Queensbury and County of Warren.
SECTION 5. Chapter 96 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury is hereby amended to add a new section
following Section 96-20.1, to be known as Section 96-20.2, and to read as follows:
~ 96-20.2. Special Use Solid Waste Exception.
A. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary set forth herein, the provisions of this Article
which restrict or limit disposal of solid waste at the Town of Queensbury Ridge Road Landfill, to that solid
waste (l) originating from residents, businesses or other sources within the boundaries of the Town of
Queensbury or City of Glens Falls or (2) outside the Town of Queensbury but within the County of Warren
under circumstances involving the use of the Landfill as a temporary consolidated landfill, shall not be
applicable to solid waste originating outside of the Town of Queensbury and/or County of Warren, which is
(l) classified or known as construction and demolition debris, as defined by DEC Regulations, paper
sludge, and/or Adirondack Resource Recovery Facility ash which will be subsequently processed into
Rolite, (2) brought into the Town of Queensbury for the purpose of disposition at the said Town of
Queensbury Landfill for grading, filling, leveling the Landfill, and for uses as gas venting material or
barrier protection material purposes, and (3) brought into or disposed of at the said Landfill in accordance
with a written agreement and upon such payment or consideration and other terms or provisions as shall be
approved by the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, as demonstrated by the adoption of an
authorizing resolution adopted by majority vote.
B. In accordance with the provisions of paragraph A hereof, the Town Board of the Town of
Queensbury may arrange for acceptance and disposal of paper mill sludge, ash from the Adirondack
Resource Recovery Facility, which will be subsequently processed into Rolite, and/or construction and
demolition debris, as defined by DEC Regulations, all materials originating or being allowed to originateifrom outside the Town of Queensbury and County of Warren.
SECTION 6. Effective Date.
This Local Law shall take effect immediately upon filing with the Office of the Secretary of State.
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING FUNDING FOR ENGINEERING WORK AT THE QUEENSBURY
GLENS FALLS LANDFILL
RESOLUTION NO. 98, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker
A Resolution authorizing a figure of $42,000 for engineering costs for continuation of the closure process
and closure inspection of cell one and continuing work toward the application of the total closure.
That would have to come from the appropriate fund the landfill closure operation fund.
Duly adopted this 1st. day of February, 1993 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Brandt
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION TO APPROVE TOWN BOARD MINUTES
RESOLUTION NO. 99, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker
RESOLVED, that the Town Board Minutes of November 20th, Dec. 21st 28th and 29th Special and 29th
Regular of 1992 and January 4th, and 7th of 1993 be and hereby are approved.
Duly adopted this 1st. day of February, 1993 by the following vote:
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR: AYES
ALL THOSE OPPOSED: NONE
ABSENT: NONE
ABSTAIN: Mrs. Goetz - December 28th 1992 Mrs. Monahan and Mr. Caimano -December 29th Special
1992 and January 7th 1993 and Mr. Caimano-December 29th Regular
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING CONTRACT WITH THE
INTERNATIONAL ARTS AND CULTURE ASSOCIATION
RESOLUTION NO. 100, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury is desirous of entering into a contract with the International
Arts and Culture Association, and
WHEREAS, a Contract has been presented at this meeting,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor is hereby authorized and directed to execute the Contract
set forth above, and
BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED, that payment due on said Contract be paid from the 01-8989-4400 Account.
Duly adopted this 1st day of February, 1993, by the following vote:
AYES Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brandt
NOES None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING INTERFUND ADVANCES
RESOLUTION NO.: 101,93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHEREAS, pursuant to Section 9-A of the General Municipal Law of the State of New York, the
Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is authorized to temporarily advance moneys held in any fund to
any other fund,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby authorizes the temporary
advance of funds to the accounts or funds indicated, and in the amounts indicated, as set forth below:
FROM:
TO:
$ AMOUNT
Queensbury Water
Fund #40
General Fund
Fund #01
$20,000.00
Queensbury Water
Fund #40
Landfill Fund
Fund #910
$ 4,000.00
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor, as Chief Fiscal Officer, is hereby authorized and directed
to arrange for and accomplish the above-authorized transfers, and temporary advances, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor, as Chief Fiscal Officer, shall keep suitable records and
arrange for the repayment of the temporary advances as soon as possible, and the Town Supervisor shall
also determine the amount of interest, if any, to be paid, upon repayment.
Duly adopted this 1st day of February, 1993, by the following vote:
AYES : Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Brandt
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION TO AMEND 1993 BUDGET
RESOLUTION NO.: 102,93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan
WHEREAS, certain departments have requested transfers of funds for the 1993 Budget, and
WHEREAS, said requests have been approved by the Chief Fiscal Officer,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the funds be transferred as follows, for the 1993 budget:
PLANNING, ZONING, AND BUILDING & CODES:
FROM:
TO:
AMOUNT:
001-3620-4400
(Misc. Contractual)
001-3620-2001
(Misc. Equipment)
$ 200.00
001-3410-2001
(Misc. Equipment)
001-3620-2001
(Misc. Equipment)
200.00
001-1680-4400
(Misc. Contractual)
001-3620-2001
(Misc. Equipment)
4,100.00
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the 1993 Town Budget is hereby amended accordingly.
Duly adopted this 18th day of January, 1993, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr.
Brandt
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION APPROVING COMPUTER SOFTWARE TRAINING
RESOLUTION NO.: 103,93
INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is desirous of authorizing and making
available, computer software training for appropriate and interested Town employees, and
WHEREAS, Creative Manufacturing Technologies, Inc. (CMTI) has offered to provide such
training in accordance with a schedule and agreement presented at this meeting, and
WHEREAS, the Director of Accounting Services has indicated that he has investigated the
possibility of alternate courses, and that information is presented to the Town Board at this meeting as well,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves of the agreement
between the Town of Queensbury and Creative Manufacturing Technologies, Inc. (CMTI) a copy of which
has been presented at this meeting, and hereby further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to
execute the same on behalf of the Town of Queensbury, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the cost of the aforesaid agreement, calculated to be in the amount of $3,600.00
shall be paid for from the appropriate departmental accounts in the 1993 budget.
Duly adopted this 1st day of February, 1993, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr.
Brandt
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION TO CONDUCT POLAR CAP 10 K ROAD RACE
RESOLUTION NO. 104, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHEREAS, the Adirondack Runner Club has requested permission to conduct a POLAR CAP 10 K
ROAD RACE as follows:
SPONSOR: The Adirondack Runners Club
EVENT: POLAR CAP 10 K ROAD RACE
DATE/TIME: February 13, 1993/9:30 a.m.
PLACE: Beginning and ending at the Queensbury Elementary School parking area (see
attached entry form and map)
WHEREAS, the Department of Parks & Recreation is assisting in helping to organize and conduct the road
race, and
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Highway Superintendent has been apprised of the race and given his
approval,
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby acknowledges receipt of proof of
insurance, from the Adirondack Runners Club to hold the Polar Cap lOK Road Race in the Town of
Queensbury.
Duly adopted this 1st. day of February, 1993, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mr.
Brandt
NOES; None
ABSENT: None
Councilman Caimano-I will second this with a comment, I have not I have not heard, as you remember last
time I made a comment to the Third Ward people I have heard nothing from them just on the record I do
not want to be crucified when the traffic comes to a halt,
Councilman Tucker-I understand that it is going to be pretty well controlled, we hope.
Supervisor Brandt-This is one that was just given to us and I have a question with it. Basically, we are
going to be building a road that then serves a development that's really private property, isn't it? This is Mr.
Bryan's property?
Attorney Dusek-No, no this road as I understand it Mike, what you are authorizing here is only over the
State property that was conveyed to the Town of Queensbury. Mr. Bryan will have to put in his own roads,
to service his own property.
Supervisor Brandt-But, this is a part of that road.
Attorney Dusek-Well, it certainly will connect, right, just like any other subdivision connects with a Town
Road.
Supervisor Brandt-The difference is, it's over State property so we're signing up to pay for it, and I'm not
sure I want to do that.
Attorney Dusek-Well that's up to the Board, of course.
Councilman Tucker-What is the ramifications here? I mean we require, developers of subdivisions to put
in their roads what is the reasons that we've got to do it here?
Attorney Dusek-That's a Town Board call, you do not have to do it., I mean, there's no law that says you
have to put in the road.
Councilman Monahan-The right to extend Farr Lane came from the Town, it did not come from the
Developer. It came from the Town correct? That easement...
Supervisor Brandt-I don't have any problem giving that right to the developer, but I have a problem
spending public monies on it. any other discussion?
Councilman Monahan-My feeling is that you know the Federal Government is kicking in money to get
housing for our Seniors, it doesn't seem like thirteen thousand dollars is much of a commitment in this town
to help our seniors have some good facilities which God knows they need if you go around and see some of
the housing they're in. We kicked in about thirty-five thousand for the sidewalks in South Queensbury, we
kicked in ten thousand for Dixon Road, I don't know what we kicked in for Peggy Ann Road. I just think
our Seniors deserve this.
Councilman Caimano-Wasn't this agreed to by the previous Board?
Councilman Monahan-Yes.
Supervisor Brandt-But it wasn't funded, that's our job now, if we're going to do it. Anyhow, any other
discussion?
Mr. John Salvadore-Mike, is this State land, in question here?
Supervisor Brandt -Yes.
Mr. John Salvadore-Would a developer, whoever he is have the ability to build a road over State Land?
Supervisor Brandt-If we were, if we got permission to do that, I'd transfer that to him anytime and let him
do it in our behalf. But for us to fund it...
Mr. John Salvadore-You would give him your easement?
Supervisor Brandt -Yes...
Attorney Dusek-No, you would not give up the easement. What has happened here is the State of New
York has transferred by letters patent the right to construct and maintain a highway over their property up
to the point and if a developer builds on his property from that point on he would be responsible for
building and constructing the road but all of that ultimately gets tumed over to the Town of Queensbury
anyway by dedication as is the normal case. So, the property that the developer has as well as the stretch
on New York's land they gave to us would also be all town in the end anyway. The real question here is
who builds the road, really, and...
Councilman Tucker-Who pays for it.
Attorney Dusek-Right, and ultimately you know, I have to say, I do not know of any law that says that the
Town has to build the road on the other hand ...
Councilman Monahan-Can we give that right that was given to us to someone else that is my question?
Attorney Dusek-I would have to check with New York's Attorneys to see if they would have any problem
with that, I suspect that if they probably would not care who builds the road to be honest with you, but I
would have to look into that.
Councilman Caimano- The reason for my asking about the previous Board is that there is precedence we
know that the previous Town Board got themselves in a jam on the sidewalks in So. Queensbury and we
went ahead and because it was the right thing to do we went ahead and funded that and it seems to me that
this is the same case here. I quess I wonder why we are even arguing about it.
Councilman Tucker-Why would you figure it is the same case?
Councilman Caimano-Because, it is. We have, a project which was put together prior to us being here and
part of that project was this little bit of road that costs us thirteen thousand dollars. I remember being here
in the audience and listening to it.
Councilman Tucker-I was here too.
Councilman Monahan-You can end up loosing this grant for the senior housing, it's very possible because
this has to be in place so that HUD can transfer that money by March 1st. So, it is very possible you can
lose this grant and senior housing will go down the tubes for a matter of thirteen thousand dollars. I ask
you, that is what you want to come out and tell the seniors of this town that...
Supervisor Brandt -Wait a minute, wait a minute, that is not right. I, that is stretching it one hell of a
distance. I am saying that I do not want to pay for a road with public monies to private to develop a private
piece of land, period. I do not give a damn if it is for my Aunt Miltida or if it is for my great grandmother
or if it is for my infant child, it is private money, it is public money going into building a road to private
land for private development, and I don't that's it. I don't want, I am against it. I am telling you I see it very
different. Sidewalks are along a State road where we tumed down the State when they offered it and now
our citizens need the sidewalks so we went and put it in, that is very different the road belongs to the State,
no one else can do it, we can do it and we did it, this is different. If the developer wants to pay for the road
let him do it. I do not want to use Town money.
Councilman Monahan-I will tell you that the road that the developer is putting in is costing him more
money than what he is charging National Church Residences for that land.
Supervisor Brandt-Too bad for the developer.
Councilman Monahan-No, it is the developer's wish to do something for the seniors in this town that he
was willing to do that.
Supervisor Brandt-Do thirteen thousand dollars more then.
Councilman Monahan-What we are really saying is that this Town Board does not really want to do
anything, have a part in making things better for the Seniors in this town
Supervisor Brandt -Oh, come on.
Councilman Tucker-Oh, yes we do Betty. Only we want to do it legal.
Councilman Monahan-You are doing it legal.
Supervisor Brandt-At my own expense I went down saw two senior citizens in Texas and I helped them
with a whole bunch of problems, they happen to be my father and mother and that was December and I will
go again next year if I can, but this is public monies for private land and I am against it, so, anyhow, any
other discussion. Please vote.
RESOLUTION REGARDING THE EXTENSION OF F ARR LANE
AND 1993 BUDGET AMENDMENT
RESOLUTION NO.: 105,93 (MOTION DEFEATED)
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, by a previous resolution, accepted the
conveyance of certain property from the State of New York for purposes of constructing an extension to
Farr Lane, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is desirous of arranging for funding of
the construction of said extension,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby authorizes a transfer of an
appropriation of $13,000 from the General Fund Contingency Account, No. 001-1990-4400, to the
Highway Transfer account No. 001-9901-9004, said sum of money to be used for the construction of the
aforesaid extension.
Duly adopted this 1st day of February, 1993, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Caimano, Mrs. Monahan
NOES : Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brandt
ABSENT: None
Councilman Monahan- Nick, I won my bet. I said the infamous three to two would tum this down and you
may make that a part of this record. Because I said that.
Supervisor Brandt-It is part of this record, it's obvious.
Councilman Monahan-I want my comment as part of the record, Darleen.
Supervisor Brandt-Your comments are in there, Baby. Okay.
DISCUSSION
PLANNING DEPT. ISSUES - Will be taken up at another meeting...
Scott Harlicker-questioned the 149 corridor study, I am looking to guidance on how to proceed.
Supervisor Brandt-I will tell you one quick piece of guidance from Mike, don't do Lake George Park Storm
Run Off, I am speaking for myself but I am against us getting in the middle of that I would rather tum it
back over to them and say thanks alot.
My feeling is the rules are pretty heavy handed and I do not want to be enforced of their rules.
Agreed to by three members of the Board, Councilman Tucker, Caimano, and Brandt
Scott Harlicker-We are in the process of sending out questionnaire to residences of 149, and we will be
setting up public meetings, informational meetings...
Supervisor Brandt-I think that has worked from my view point is great I saw the forms and I think we
ought to move right out with it.
Hospitalization-will be held in executive session
Councilman Tucker-The Glenwood Quaker Road Light- There is an existing light on the South Side of
Quaker Road that has a 400 watt bulb that cost $284.05 a year at the present time we can go to a thousand
watt light bulb and the cost will go to $542.06 per year or we can set a pole on the comer of Quaker and the
total cost will be $332.16 per year. I recommend we set the pole at the comer of Quaker and Glenwood
because I do not believe the 1000 watt bulb on the opposite side of the Road will light up the intersection or
the curb going away from the intersection.
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE SETTING OF POLE AT THE CORNER OF QUAKER AND
GLENWOOD
RESOLUTION NO. 106, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker
Councilman Tucker-...Set a pole on the Comer of Quaker and the total cost will be $332.16 a year and I
have looked at it and I recommend that we set the pole for the light at the comer of Quaker and
Glenwood.. .
Supervisor Brandt -On the one that you just recommended I would say you go with the new pole at $332.00
and I would offer that as a motion.
Duly adopted this 1st. day of February, 1993 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Brandt
NOES; None
ABSENT: None
Councilman Tucker-Noted that the light at Walker Lane is in the system...will not be angled......the other
two things that I have got to talk about are to do with I had charges filed against me conflict of interest
charges to the Ethics Board, I went in front of the advisory Board and part of the charges were dropped
there and I wasn't satisfied with their determination on the rest of the charges so I took it onto the Ethics
Board and I was cleared of all charges. So, that clears up part of the stuff that was in the Chronicle and the
other part to do with my vote on the Chairman of the Planning Board. I know the Chronicle said it was
politics and maybe there was some politics involved then but I talked to people on the Planning Board and
had complaints from people on the Planning Board that this lady was quite disruptive with what they were
trying to get done I talked to people in the Town and I was told that they felt there were other people better
qualified to be Chairman of the Board and that had a bearing on how I voted on Mrs. Pulver as far as
Chairman of the Board. That is the truth, you can take that to the Bank.
Discussion held regard vote on Association of Towns Voting...Councilman Caimano-requested that this be
talked about later...
OPEN FORUM
Mr. John Salvadore-The Association of Towns this is a very important subject for us, I have come to learn
that there is a very big organizational line between two sectors of government. One being the State and one
being Local and all of the laws the Constitution of the State indicates this line between the Town and the
County. The County has very little authorization constitutional authority to do many things that you are
allowed to do. Our access into this system is at the Town level our voice the people's voice is at the Town
level and the constitution provides for that, and your connection with this Association of Towns is how
your feelings get in a lobbying effort up to the State legislature where they pass all these laws that impact
us. The classic example of this is what is going on up in the Adirondack Park in the Adirondack Park bill.
The Towns are not being heard, they have formed a special congress I do not know if you are a part of it
are you Mike?
Supervisor Brandt -Yes.
Mr. Salvadore-That's is where our voice and the only place our voice can be heard and the only basis on
which we have standing in any of these issues is in our local Town Govermnent, Town City and Village
Govermnent. That is very important and I would not leave it to my Town Attorney to represent me in a
bunch of blanket resolutions, while every one of them counts.
Councilman Caimano-I want to relook at the that...I am going to be in attendance...
Discussion-noted that a resolution in January gave the voting authority to the Town Attorney...
Mr. Salvadore-All of the problems this community has in the field of solid waste can be laid to the
violation of this principal and the fact that it is the issue of solid waste is a local govermnent issue and it
has been lifted through a system of coercion and funding by the State to the County. Your powers have
been lifted up to the County and because you get cover from the County because you are threaten with
these costs and you are threaten with these closures illegally I think, you run to the County for cover. That
is how they have got the control, it is all wrong it doesn't match, it doesn't fit. We are paying dearly for it.
Supervisor Brandt-We will take that under discussion..
Mr. Salvadore-I always use the example of the library as local government at work whether or not you
agree with what happened that was the people speaking, we had a referendum we had hearings the people
had a chance for input. That did not happen on the subject of solid waste and flow control. It did not
happen our Town Attorney got together with all the other Attorneys in the County and together with the
County Attorney and they put together a flow control law.
Attorney Dusek-Lets get the record straight, I had nothing whatsoever to do with the flow control law that
was the County's baby they put it together, what your Town Attorney did for you was to represent this
Town in connection with consent orders in connection with action that was being threatened by DEC and I
with the other Town Attorneys and not to pat ourselves on our back but I think we did a pretty good job in
hanging together and trying to put together the best package we could for these towns. The package was
reviewed with the Town Board on a number of occasions to make sure we were heading down the right
path in terms of what was the best for our Town. I just cannot sit here and take the heat for flow control
law because I had nothing whatsoever to do with that as far as the consent order I really believe we did the
best that we could for this Town. I will tell you right now I continue to believe to continue to use all my
efforts for the best of the Town of Queensbury. You talk about some of these issues on State laws, you
better believe I see them as representing the Town of Queensbury numerous occasions, laws that are
antedated make no sense whatsoever yet the Towns are strapped by them, we have to operate under them.
Crazy laws in some instances that make absolutely no sense. I see it every day things that have to be
changed, I am very concerned about those things and I work toward trying to put the Town of Queensbury
interest in the very best in terms of dealing with these laws. So, you know, I am a little sensitive on that
because I really do work hard to try to get our Town in the best of conditions. Something like a flow
control law, no. I had nothing to do with that.
Mr. Salvadore-But, the power must rest with the people, that only can be through our local government.
You are the first stop the only stop, we have no voice at the County, you go to the County Planning Board
meeting you cannot say anything, you sit there and listen. The fact of the matter is that has absolutely no
jurisdiction, they are meddling in where they do not belong. But you will not stand up and say no. Basta,
enough. Many of the things that Paul talks about he does agree, but where do we fight, where do we dig in
that is the question.
Councilman Monahan-Noted the Board worked hard on the Library issues so the people were not
disenfranchised.. .
Mr. Salvadore-Questioned the resolution regarding the International Arts and Culture...what was
purchased. ..
Supervisor Brandt-We will give you a copy of the contract...
Mr. Salvadore-The 1993 Planning Issued said something about the Park Commission, and Lake George and
Storm Water?
Supervisor Brandt-There was a question of whether we should develop a Storm Water plan to go along
with the Lake Park commission and that is what I said I do not want to see done, I think the three of us said
that.
Mr. Salvadore-You are hooked though, you cannot get out of this.
Supervisor Brandt-I do not know, I will see. In action may do it.
Mr. Salvadore-The State Legislature passed this famous chapter 617 (read the storm water management
plan)...I caution your predecessor when he was engaging in it, I insisted that Lee York come to the
hearings and make a statement on behalf of the Town, she was not interested, the Town was no show at the
Public Hearings, I do not know it was written as statement, in any case they have gone ahead with the
regulations. ... We have this subject in Court....they did not prepare the study the neg dec. this in the
SEQRA process..we have a favorable decision on this in Supreme Court, they have appealed...This is
another example of a State Agency usurping your power and authority...
Supervisor Brandt-That is coming up we are going to have to look at it....I would like to develop an
alternative plan to the 15 million per day expansion of the Water Treatment Plant as proposed by our Water
Dept. O'Brien and Gere. To do that I would like to authorize the spending of up to $3,000. to update the
1987 study for building a 10 million gallon per day capacity at our plant together with looking at alternative
funding for that. I would like to go to Kestner who did the 1987 plan ask him to update all the figures and
give us accurate figures so when we get into this discussion we have got something to really look at.
Councilman Caimano-We agreed to have a meeting on this whole thing.
Supervisor Brandt-The resolution is to put $3,000 into upgrading that study...
Councilman Caimano-We do not even know that we need to upgrade that study. The reason for the
meeting we are having was to find out whether we need to do that. The first blush look at that report shows
that their 10 million gallon plant is more expensive than what we have on the table right now but that is
neither here nor there. We agreed to a meeting we are going to have a meeting on the 24th on a Saturday,
we are going to decide where we are in this thing. To have a resolution now to spend $3,000 more dollars
it seems to be ridiculous...
Supervisor Brandt-I would like to go to that meeting with some facts and figures...we have one set of facts
and figures that say build a 15 million gallon plant it says build it for about 12 million dollars in 1987 this
report said build a 5 million gallon expansion to take you to 10 million gallons total for 6 million dollars
that is a hell of a lot less money...
Councilman Caimano-First of all that report is built on erroneous information.
Supervisor Brandt-How do you know that why don't we spend $3,000 and find that out.
Councilman Caimano-We know it is a 3.5 million gallon rated plant and they started with a 5 million gallon
rated plant we know that and so does Kestner. Let him spend the $3,000 and bring it up, I am not
interested in spending $3,000. until after we have the meeting..
Supervisor Brandt-We are the guys that are going to spend 14 million dollars or 12 million dollars whatever
it is we may have a possibility of spending only 6 million bucks...
Councilman Goetz-Asked if Kestner will be there?
Councilman Caimano- I assumed that they were all going to be there.
Supervisor Brandt-Kestner is not paid to be there, O'Brien and Gere is.
Councilman Monahan-If Kestner is interest...he will be there.
Councilman Caimano-I do not want to spend $3,000 until we have the meeting then if you want to spend
$3,000 for more information then we will talk about it, that is the only thing I am going to say.
Supervisor Brandt-I sure would like to have some facts and figures to base a decision on other than one set
offacts and figures....
Councilman Caimano- Y ou are the one that wanted to bring the 87 Kestner report into it and I said...
Supervisor Brandt -You better believe it because our Water Dept. sure as hell did not tell us it existed.
Councilman Caimano-I went over to the Water Dept. and got it I do not why...
Councilman Monahan-I remember telling members of this Town Board I have a lot of report's in on my
desk and they are all the old reports and they are all welcome to go in there and check any report that we
had...
Supervisor Brandt-Except nobody told us this existed, I found it.
Councilman Monahan-All you had to do is go in and look.
Supervisor Brandt-Why do we pay a water department administration to advise us if they do not tell us
what is available to us.
Councilman Monahan-I think the reason was is that we found the flaws in the report before.
Supervisor Brandt-This Board is being asked to spend the money and we are going to make the decisions
therefore we ought to have the information in front of us, all of it.
Councilman Caimano-I agree with you a 100%. I just do not agree with spending $3,000 until we have this
fact finding meeting that we all agreed to. Now, you want to spend $3,000 to have that meeting I do not
agree with that.
Supervisor Brandt-No, I want to spend $3,000 to have updated figures.
Councilman Caimano-Let them update their figures. If they want the business they will update the figures,
if they do not think it is worthwhile, they will update the figures and we do not have to spend the money to
do it.
Supervisor Brandt-Do you want to authorize them to then have access to all information and tell our Water
Dept. to share that information.
Councilman Caimano-I have no problem with that.
Supervisor Brandt-How much did we spend on the engineering that we are doing?..noted that he has not
received the book that comes to the conclusion that we need a 15 million gal. plant...I have ordered them
and you each will have them...I want up todate figures from the 87 see the rate of inflation is that still a
viable plan and put it on the table...that cost $3,000. I bet we spend $40,000 in the process or more so far. I
will offer it as a motion...
Attorney Dusek-Noted it might be better if! drafted this...I could have it ready by tomorrow night...
Supervisor Brandt-Ask the Attorney to prepare a resolution for tomorrow night...
Mr. Salvadore-On the Lake George Park Commission I would like to remind you that the Storm water regs.
exempt State and Municipal Govermnents, we know one of the biggest polluters of Lake George in the
Storm Water point of view are State highways...
Supervisor Brandt-Two meetings tomorrow night... 5: 30 interviews Zoning Board 7: 30 for Hudson Pointe
Workshop...
Attorney Dusek-Issue: regarding putting water around the landfill ...the question was asked whether there
was legal authority to do that? We have found out there is under certain circumstances...
Issue: Landfill-at Landfill Conference-grant program, no funds available but some authorized projects may
not use all their funding..questioned how long the town could stay open and still be eligible for the grant?
The time period is 18 months from the quarter in which we put our grant application in...it would carry us
approximately April of 93 that is to stay up, once we closed and we wanted to take in sludge as part of the
closure process, would that upset the grant monies? they did not think so we would have to get into that
further... .
Issue: BUD determinations by DEC. they have a small set of regulations dealing with BUDS they are
currently working on expanding those...Ifthey grant one of those it essentially makes that a non waste item
and it is able to be used as a product type of substance... Questioned Federal regs. Whether or not under
the Federal regs. if we close and we continue to take Rolite and or Paper Sludge whether that would be
considered taking waste and in violation of the regulations therefore you have to comply with them or
whether if you took it you can use it as part of closure and still be considered relieved from the Fed. regs. I
could not get a clear answer on it... said they were talking to Federal officials to check that out...I will
follow up on that...The critical things: 1: Eligibility for the grant program...2: Federal Regulations and what
the cost impacts are going to be...
Discussed Financial Assurances...
Supervisor Brandt-Questioned the increase in liability...
Attorney Dusek-Yes, if we go under the Federal Regs. there is another way for people to bring actions
using the Federal Laws...also looking at increase cost with ground water monitoring, corrective measures
and capping expenses...also looking to where the letters are regarding Paper Sludge, C&D and Rolite with
DEC...
Councilman Caimano-Requested a written SUllUllary for the landfill file...
Supervisor Brandt-I am discussing with the neighboring communities representative of Hudson Falls, Fort
Edward, and possible Kingsbury to set up a joint meeting to discuss agreements on the sale of water with
those communities...
Councilman Monahan-Questioned if there are any restrictions on the grant monies...
Attorney Dusek-It would be closure expenses...
Councilman Monahan-Engineering work?
Attorney Dusek-That qualifies under that... as I understand it at this point. I have spoken to Tom Lawson
relative to the County Local Laws on this as we get into doing some of this stuff we have to correlate some
of our activities with the County, noted he does not see any significant problems in dealing with the County
in these areas.
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 107,93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into Executive Session to
discuss Litigation and Personnel.
Duly adopted this 1st day of February 1993 by the following vote:
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR: AYES
ALL THOSE OPPOSED: NONE
ABSENT: NONE
ON MOTION THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED.
Respectfully submitted,
Miss Darleen M. Dougher
Town Clerk-Queensbury