1993-05-04
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
MAY 4,1993
7:00 p.m.
MTG.#34
RES. 275
TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
Supervisor Michel Brandt
Councilman Betty Monahan
Councilman Susan Goetz
Councilman Nick Caimano
Councilman Pliney Tucker
Attorney Paul Dusek
GUESTS: Mr. Gary Bowen
Supervisor Brandt-We are here to discuss with Gary Bowen the sewer situation, there are a lot oflegalities
that I am not sure I understand totally. I know we have some interested people looking for the sewer
capacity we are trying to get it utilized and get a district of consumers so the cost can come down and be
bearable, that is basically where we are at.
Attorney Dusek-I would like to summarize why we got to the point where we are at. The Town of
Queensbury has an agreement with Hiland Park organization concerning the sewer for Hiland Park. In that
agreement various amounts are set forth that Hiland Park will pay the Town over time in terms of what it
owes for its fair share of the Queensbury Sewer facilities. One of the provisions in that agreement without
getting into the cash flow where we are at in terms of the money, I think the Board has somewhat of an idea
on that, one of the terms of the agreement provides that Hiland Park relinquish 100,000 gallons of capacity
into the main line and in that part of the agreement, it says Hiland Park hereby relinquishes all title,
ownership rights, claims, etc. to 100,000 of the 280,000. Now, just to stop for a moment, if you recall the
total project needs were estimated at 280, at the time this agreement was entered into for whatever reason
Hiland Park agreed that they would be willing to relinquish 100,000 of that 280 however they did retain
within the agreement a option if you will, for lack of a better word, whereby if the Town decided at some
point in time it wanted to use that 100,000 gallons it would give Hiland Park notice of that and Hiland Park
in turn would have a right to reclaim if you will the 100,000 gallons. Under normal circumstances the
process would have been quite simple, notices would have been issued time periods would have run,
Hiland Park would have either exercised their option or not exercised their option and it would be very
simple if you read the agreement. In that particular case it is not secrete that Hiland Park is in bankruptcy
and that adds some twists in terms of where everybody is at concerning the 100,000 gallons. The Town
authorized and a notice did go out a short time ago concerning the 100,000 gallons indicated the Town had
a desire. If the Board will recall a resolution was adopted which resolution referred to a Passarelli
development on Bay Road which was demanding a need for 75,000 per day of daily average flow. It also
referred to the Bay Meadows project which was demanding a 26,000 gallon day per flow and letters were
actually received from the appropriate engineers concerning these needs and the letter was sent to Hiland
Park copied to the appropriate Attorneys indicating that notice was being given on the Town's desire to
exercise its option. Immediately after that it was also clarified that because of the bankruptcy the Town
realized that it could not just move ahead and take that 100,000 gallons but rather would have to follow
appropriate bankruptcy procedures and court procedures which the Town thorough my office has indicated
that it certainly would abide by the law of course and follow whatever channels are needed. While
pursuing that meetings were had with Hiland Park actually Gary was not at that one meeting your Attorney
was there on behalf whereby those issues were discussed. The bank was present through their Attorneys at
that meeting and we started to get some grip on what it was the Town was looking for. One of the follow
ups at that meeting was that Hiland Park would meet with appropriate Town Officials which ultimately
turned into this Town Board Meeting to discuss the 100,000 gallons and the needs of the Town. One of the
interesting things that developed over time here is that Gary brought forth was he had some reservations he
could in fact really use 100,000 gallons. He got into a number of issues with me which I felt would be
more appropriate discussed in general at a meeting. Not saying we will resolve all the issues here tonight
but at least open a dialogue and get Hiland's position on the 100,000 gallons and then take it from there.
There is a other issue that is floating around in the background which I do not know that we have to get into
at this particular juncture, that has not been part of the plan to date because we are really focused on the
100,000 gallons at the moment although there is additional sums that have to be considered in terms of
sewage which we are also pursuing. Here again, to start with that is my understanding the main focus is
this 100,000 gallons, so maybe at this point, Gary, you are the one that indicated that you have some
information you wanted to share with the Board and I thought we would get into it.
Mr. Gary Bowen-That summarizes where we are to date. As Paul had indicated the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy
protection that Hiland finds itself in now is not necessarily a protective shield but it does leave us into
doing things a little differently than we would have done. My main point asking for this meeting, as far as I
am concerned we can talk about anything you care to talk about, is I attended a Planning Board Meeting for
the development that is south, precipitated this 75,000 gallon usage and I heard some things at the meeting
that were quite bothersome as far as technical facts.
Attorney Dusek-A point on the record I think at this point since this is a Town Board Meeting and you are
discussing this with the Town. I noticed that your Attorneys are not present, but they were copied on the
correspondence indicating this meeting would be in occurrence, do you have any problem proceeding
without your Attorney, is that your choice?
Mr. Bowen-It is absolutely my choice. I started this and I will finish it somehow. In any event the things
that I heard at that meeting again were a little bothersome technically, in that they did not really make a lot
of sense to me from things that I remembered in the past, when we went through the exercise of having
Hiland Park approved back in 1986-87 there is only one Town Board member here that was here during
those meetings. Betty was at those meetings. On the Planning Board that this in front of the other night,
there were none of the same people present which I guess is a standard. Then without looking in the files
and all sort of things I think the people of the Town that are dealing in this area don't have some of the
history the recollection the connection the reason why, whatever so. I wanted to bring out some pictures
we have a picture log we have 40,000 pictures of everything we do, timing and everything. Bring out a
picture log, talk about the agreement a little bit, talk about a couple of the engineering facts that we heard
that might help the Town stay out of an Article 78 with somebody because I heard some things that are
difficult to accept. I also sit on the, I am a trustee for the Adirondack Community College, and I happen to
sit on the Buildings and Ground Committee and go to those meetings and I have for a number of years.
The developer is taking a lead by saying that the College needs sewage therefore why not pass a sewage
line through their development and therefore provide it through to the Hiland Park situation which is all
well and good, but that is not technically correct. The Adirondack Community College does not
necessarily need sewage we just spent a lot of money on the update of the plant last year sometime in the
future perhaps it would. But, it went on record as the driving force why they should get sewage because
spurring around the College needs sewage. I think that ought to be uncoupled or if it is not uncoupled it
ought to be certainly corrected or the college should speak for itself.
Attorney Dusek -Could we address that for a moment...
Mr. Bowen-I do not officially speak for, the only time I officially speak for the College is when I am at a
Board meeting and there is a quorum present so I am not speaking for the college now...
Attorney Dusek-Mike, I think I received information I think through you in terms of the College interest,
can you outline the information as you understand it to see where the confusion is coming from.
Mr. Mike Shaw-They told me that they were interested in sewer service, they are currently looking to
upgrade their...they have. They had monies from New York State to upgrade that facility they had to do
that this year.
Attorney Dusek-When you said they, who are you referring to?
Mr. Shaw-Mr. John McClure, and then there was another gentlemen, I do not remember his name..
Attorney Dusek-I think it is important to know the Town is proceeding in good faith because this is the
information that we had in this regard.
Mr. Bowen-Number one the College's system was updated last year, new tanks put in and so on and
brought up to 100% effective utilization and so on. The College doesn't use much sewage in the beginning
and then secondly it looks like the building plan
that precipitated this part of the study for sewage in the beginning is going to be put off. That is not official
or unofficial or anything it is just that is not, it is not a hot topic right now. In any communication should
come in official statement from the College, I suspect as their needs consumption, so on I think that my
comments are not necessarily how the Board should react to anything other than at the Planning Board
meeting a developer was using that as a spear or the reason to do something. I want to state as well
however, I am in favor of that development by the way I am not against the development. Technically the
development has a lot of problems the land has a lot of problems with proper management and so on and
that is the reason why I am here is to help the Town or help the developer to help somebody, I did not ask
for a full blown meeting by the way. I asked for a couple of representatives to walk down Meadowbrook
Road with me with the maps, and charts and graphs and to show people where things were. So, in any
event.
Attorney Dusek-So, where are we at with Adirondack Community College, are you saying that they do not
have a need for...
Mr. Bowen-I am not saying anything, I am saying somebody should research it technically and they should
get exactly what is going on there. I do not feel the same push.
Mr. Shaw-It is exactly what they told me, in fact we got a letter, sent to Mike, requesting...
Mr. Bowen-I was in on the committee meetings and we were requested to talk about what the flows were
so we gave up what the flows were, what the plant flows were, but that is a far cry from saying that we are
going to do it, to spend the money.
Mr. Shaw-They originally approached us, we didn't approach them.
Mr. Bowen-They approached us because I asked them to. I asked them to study, when they had the plant
problem two years ago, I asked them to approach the Town and talk to them about sewage, thinking that we
were looking, they were looking at tearing the whole plant out, spending a lot more money then they did.
So, Merrit Scoville and I requested that they...in fact I am the one that got the flows we calculated the flows
for them.
Mr. Shaw-About 10,000 a day.
Mr. Bowen-I guess the big thing, there are a number of key points going back to the time that we sat down
and required or requested sewage and we were told in the beginning in planning the project that because of
the heavy soils and so on in the Hiland area that municipal sewage would be required. We went and did,
we went over the details and all the books, graphs and maps that were done we did a complete plan without
municipal sewage and that was rejected through the engineering studies. Then we went and did a new plan
with a compete sewage plant tieing into Glens Falls through the Queensbury system. At that time we did
not have any success in getting the capacity we were told we would have to wait but we pushed it and our
Attorneys were told in a heated meeting with the then Town Supervisor and Stuart Messinger and other
individuals that if we wanted the capacity go talk to Glens Falls itself because the Town of Queensbury and
the City of Glens Falls did not get along very well and they did not want to talk so we set up a meeting
down there in the Mayors office with about fifteen people present, three or four from the Town our
Attorneys and we negotiated for four hundred thousand gallons of additional capacity and that was before
the Ciba Geigy exit therefore they did not know they had as much capacity as they have now. Which
capacity now is redundant you have all the capacity in the world. In any event they said through letters and
so on that there would be four hundred thousand gallons additional available at the price etc. and we gave
that information to the Town at that time the Town Attorney we developed a plan and so on around that.
Our calculations then through our engineers and our impact statements deemed that we need two hundred
eighty thousand gallons a day for full build out. So we had one hundred and twenty thousand gallons extra,
Fran Walter thought it would be a good idea if they took the whole amount because it was a very
inexpensive buy in at seventy five cents a gallon, capital cost and therefore the extra hundred and twenty
thousand was assigned at large and I remember on one map it was assigned to Earltown Project on one
chart which has since has not gone forward and I suspect it has been assigned elsewhere. We then designed
our system, built our system at our cost, of course, and then turned it over to the Town. Town
improvements that we have made through sewage, water and roadways are in the many millions of dollars,
that Hiland has made and dedicated to the Town. Therefore I guess, one of the key factors that we are
hoping that comes into all this is a fairness factor. The fairness factor is Hiland Park is a large sitting lame
duck right now in the financial condition that the project is in and where it is going and what we are tying
to do with it we are not as health and able to fight or do the things that normally would, one would do to
protect itself, therefore I think that in this case we have to ask the Town Board to think about Hiland Park
the Bowen Family that has invested in that end of the Town heavily. We have put seventy fire hydrants in
that fire district there was none when we started. We have got gas running through there it was all at our
expense. Now, a situation has come up where you are demanding the one hundred thousand gallons that,
yes technically was put into the second writing of this contract if you will. This contract was developed by
the way to strictly payoff site, off Hiland Park site sewage costs if you will, capital cost to tie into the
Plant, pump house the town pump station improvements and so on, this was no on site, is that correct Paul?
Attorney Dusek-That is my understanding, I believe...
Mr. Bowen-There are no on site charges, they are all paid for.
Attorney Dusek-Including the Hiland Pump Station that is there, all the infrastructure you have paid for.
Mr. Bowen-That is correct, including tying off our property and we obligated ourself to pay for the usage at
the Glens Falls plant and the pump improvements if necessary whenever he gets to full build out at the
Queensbury station. In effect there is an agreement between Hiland and the Town that gets the Town... as
to all of that. Now, we get to the point of why does the Town want to take the one hundred thousand
gallons from us right now, when the Town does not need it. Hiland sewage usage right now is a trickle.
Mr. Shaw-Approximately 4500 a day a yearly average, the summer it is a lot higher.
Mr. Bowen-I think it was 13,000 gallons in the sunuuer high peak...so it is a trickle. The negotiated
capacity that Hiland was able to get for the Town was 400,000 gallons and I guess if I look at the
mathematics number 1, Hiland specified usage of up to 180,000 right now we would like to stay at that
number because that value if we go that number, if we go down to the 180 which our engineers say that we
could basically build up plan out under is not going to affectively hurt Hiland Park of the value of Hiland
Park whether the Bowen's own it in the future or the banks own it, somebody is going to own Hiland Park,
Hiland Park is not going to go away. I think what we want to do we would like to not fight but to stand up
for what we think are the rights that we bought and planned for. Can we fight the 100,000 gallon capacity
or talk about that at another day when we are healthier or somebody is healthier to talk about it because the
Town does not need it. First of all there is 120,000 gallons of available that is on top of the 280 that hasn't
even been talked about. Why did we go down from the 280 to 180 for that development which is 75,000
gallons usage.
Attorney Dusek-Requested that Mike Shaw outline the Town's position on why is it that we are going after
the 100,000 gallons.
Mr. Shaw-The way we understand the agreement I think is Quaker Road Sewer Dist. originally bought,
owns the rights to 400,000 gallons, you have the option for 280,000
Mr. Bowen-On top of the 400,000
Mr. Shaw-Right, that's 680,000 gallons. Now, if somebody else has to come in currently now, if Guido
Passarelli or somebody the Meadowbrook pump station engineered to handle 680 and 770...
so if Quaker Road Sewer Dist. owns 400,000 and you own 280 that is 680 right there.
Mr. Bowen-You know what we are doing right now, we are doing 4500 gallons a day that is a long way
from 280,000, if we were totally responsible for stalling the economy in the Town of Queensbury and
North American in not selling any homes we would not be in the position, we would not be in that position
we would not stall the economy, we would not be in the position that we are in. I think again, our trickle
why take it is not necessary to take that, I do not think it is necessary for the Town at this time even in this
decade to take this position against us. Especially when you look at the technical things that are going on
that are pump station, I have heard some crazy numbers, I think you have got to get at the facts and the
facts are our pump station is designed, has a design capacity of a little over two million gallons a day.
Mr. Shaw-That is the EP A design.
Mr. Bowen-It is limited by the pump impellers, the system is capable the piping and everything is capable
of many times that. It is only limited by what the pumps will pump. The current pump impellers will
pump at the level of a million fifty one thousand gallons a day, two pumps. That is not a limiting factor,
you are looking at 280,000 for a maximum build out.
Attorney Dusek-As I understand it, Mike you had indicated to us that the capacity of the Hiland Park
Station is 280 could you explain that?
Mr. Shaw-It comes form the reports that I have from Hiland Park.
Mr. Bowen-No, (used drawing) here it is each pump capacity is 730 gallons per minute, fourteen hundred
and forty minutes in a day and there is your capacities.
Supervisor Brandt-What about the pipes from your pump station to our pump station.
Mr. Bowen-That pipe capacity is a million and a half gallons a day maximum flow, minimum flow is seven
hundred thousand gallons a day. People are even quoting the wrong diameters, Mike, in the meetings they
are quoting 8" diameters, that is a 10" diameter pipe. That is a significant difference, a 40% difference.
Supervisor Brandt-A million five, there is a three fold factor ...
Mr. Bowen-Five hundred and fifty thousand gallons...however there is if you wanted to argue relief argue
up to almost 900 according to our engineer.
Mr. Shaw-The main limiting factor on the whole thing is Meadowbrook Pumping station.. .Rist Frost did an
independent study the ultimate capacity of the pump station is 770 a day.
Supervisor Brandt-If Hiland has its two hundred and eighty and we have six eighty which we may have a
little more than ...there is no problem between their pump station and our pump station in otherwords we
will handle everything that we can foresee the two eighty that they are looking for and quite a bit more.
What we are really talking about that from our pump station we would have to upgrade it further to get up
to 680 in otherwords bigger impellers, bigger motors and how about pipe line from us to the City?
Mr. Shaw-I have heard different things about that also Gary, recently I called Don Colts to clarify the
position of the City and he tells me that the extension from the force main along Sanford to Glen has to be
done, it is their position, 400,000 gallons a day is all that will take at Bay and Sanford and that extension
has to be done once we reach 400,000.
Supervisor Brandt-What will it cost to upgrade?
Mr. Bowen-One hundred and seventy thousand was the estimate that was put in our plan. I do not know
what your numbers are.
Mike, that is not gospel, ...that number might be political, we paid significantly to have that studied three
different times and it just happened that one of the times we were studying it they were doing the camera
work and we think we got the most accurate reading. Don might tell you this that interceptor capacity at
the corner of Bay and Sanford is significantly more then they will admit and that is just because of the
safety factors.
Supervisor Brandt-For the most $200,000 we could pick up our capacity to 680,000.
Mr. Bowen-You could pick that up to a million and a half if you wanted to because it depends on the line
that you put in from Sanford to Glen because your line from your pump station to Meadowbrook down Bay
is capable of over two million gallons a day that is not a limiting factor, the pump station is the limiting
factor but your line is not. Therefore, if you make the improvement from Sanford to Glen and you up your
pump station heaven knows that your capacity could be.
Supervisor Brandt -Our line to the City has a capacity of a million gallons a day.
Mr. Bowen-Over two million.
Supervisor Brandt -So, there again the three to one factor that EP A may ask for it may be a third..
Mr. Bowen-I am not sure that, that takes that into consideration.
Attorney Dusek-I think the Meadowbrook pumping station was originally contemplated, my understanding
of the history of this was that Meadowbrook was originally planned for 400,000 capacity and when Hiland
Park project came on board they actually changed the nature of the facility that was going to go in, they
went actually to a bigger pump station, when they did that at least initially and this is why the number
threw everybody a little bit, I thought that they had doubled the size of the station went to an 800,000
capacity.
Mr. Bowen-It basically is.
Councilman Caimano- Those pumps will only put out and those motors will only put out so much, that
should not be an argument, you ought to know what that is by design.
Supervisor Brandt-Looking at the long run, where we are going as a Town, you could perhaps put a second
pump station in and separate that off, one coming from Hiland, one coming from therest of the district and
each going into the line that we own to the City and then for 200,000 upgrade off the line within the City or
thereabout's we could have a lot more capacity. One of the concerns that we have to look at, what's the
capacity of the eventual system, Town wide in that whole area. What I am hearing here is that there is
more capacity than you might have guessed.
Mr. Bowen-Your pump station too, Mike, we have obligated ourselves to impeller changes I am hoping
that you would obligate the other people that came in to helping with that impeller change.
Supervisor Brandt-The costs by sharing the costs of impeller increases or pipes that might have to be
increased you could get up to the six eighty.
Mr. Bowen-Six eighty is a given, the pump station capacity itself by going to different frequency pumps
might even be doubled because the way your stations run, they run as a reservoir and they really run at the
capacity they could totally run at the capacity level of our out put discharge just put bigger pumps, bigger
impellers, you could fill the bottom of those things with pumps and your discharge would be your limiting
factor.
Attorney Dusek-What I had heard the building size itself was a limiting factor and that the Hiland Park
station as well as the Meadowbrook station could never go beyond their current ultimate limitations. The
Meadowbrook was 680 or 800 and here again I was told for the Hiland Station because of its size it was
limited to 280.
Mr. Bowen-That is totally incorrect.
Attorney Dusek-What is it rated at now as it sits here today?
Mr. Bowen-The station now is currently at 2 million gallons a day, these are designed to run twenty four
hours a day.
Attorney Dusek-But isn't that under whatever the standard is a third of that you have to be able to have...
Mr. Bowen-No that is line frequency.
Councilman Caimano-But even if you were if you are just playing numbers that is still six hundred and
seventy thousand..
Attorney Dusek-You are saying as of today no changes made to your station whatsoever it would be 2
million.
Mr. Bowen-Absolutely. I am not saying that my engineers are saying that.
Supervisor Brandt-The engineer that did this was who?
Mr. Bowen-Dick Morse and Ray Irish.
Councilman Monahan-It was also reviewed by the Town Engineer
Mr. Bowen-Quentin Kestner and ....
Supervisor Brandt-We can tap those people and get the same...
Councilman Monahan-You should have all the records right here in the Town Office Building. We hired an
engineer to review Dick Morse and Gary paid the bill for it.
Mr. Bowen-Kestner did part of it...
Councilman Monahan-Your engineering was also reviewed...
Mr. Bowen-Quentin Kestner did the district...
Councilman Tucker-What you are saying Gary is that from your pumping station to ours your station and
your pipe line, will handle two million gallons a day?
Mr. Bowen-We are saying that the pipe capacity the 10" force main will handle a maximum flow of a
million five and then if you put that peaking factor in there you have got to divide that by three and
potentially you could argue you could divide it by say two and a half. There are many municipalities, if
you go outside of New York State they have no division, their rates are what their rates are.
Attorney Dusek-Assuming that all of this is correct, my understanding is the Town actually owns Hiland
Station at this point, holding aside 280 for the Hiland Park Project means the Town would have minimally
another two hundred and twenty it could feed into the station.
Mr. Bowen-That is correct.
Councilman Tucker-If you have build out over there, with your project, the way I understand it we would
have a bottle neck at the Meadowbrook pumping station as far as capacity?
Mr. Bowen-We have obligated ourselves and anyone else sending sewage down this line to pay fifty
thousand dollars I think it is for new impellers.
Councilman Tucker-How is the line handled from Sanford to Glen?
Mr. Bowen-We are obligated to pay our pro-rata share on that.
Attorney Dusek-That is the issue, as to whether or not that has to be done? Mike is saying it does but you
say it doesn't.
Mr. Bowen-It should go way beyond Mike and I, I think it ought to go to the people that is their field.
Councilman Monahan-Questioned ifRist Frost was involved?
Mr. Bowen-They did the mechanics... There is one big issue that was never addressed and Betty was
around to remember when Hiland Park was approved in July of 87 we put the water district in first that fall
and then the sewage district that fall and winter, it was approved all the engineering and so on for it.
Shortly after we were supposed to, Hiland was to pay for everything which we did and then we were to turn
over the districts which we did, but at that time then other things happen. Our district was not suppose to
stick out their like a sore thumb, our district was to be brought into the Queensbury Dist. it has never been
done.
Attorney Dusek-Which district?
Mr. Bowen-Both district were to be encompassed and that work was never done...the paper work was all
started.
Councilman Monahan-They paid all their own infrastructure costs that was part of the deaL.. they were
taking the cost themselves of any upgrading of facilities that had to be done because of their coming in or
their future impact.
Supervisor Brandt-There is some discussion of the water district right now, we are looking at the expansion
of the plant then your people would pay their fair share of the expansion like anyone else would.
Mr. Bowen-We have not had a need to talk about it, we have sold ten dwelling units, twenty but ten are
townhomes...
Attorney Dusek-This is the first that I have had any information that a consolidation was planned, the way
the district was structured it looked to be a separate isolated district there has never been mention of it in
the paper work that I can find.
Mr. Bowen-That was always the intention. If you look at our map of Hiland Park the golf course is in the
sewage and water dist. we are not allowed to use, the golf course does not use sewage and we are not
allowed to use Town water on the golf course, but we are still paying taxes on one hundred and eighty six
acres because it is in the district, that was another thing Wilson was supposed to take out, John Lapper did
all the drawing but it never got done, we have been paying eight or nine thousand extra in taxes every year
just on that.
Mr. Shaw-A lot of things he is telling I am not aware of, I have not read them anywhere...
Supervisor Brandt -Your premise is that we do not need to take your allocation away, there is plenty of
allocation available you may be have to pay the city for allocation but let me tell you I am sure this Board, I
can speak for this Board, we do not want to hurt you guys I certainly want to look at this, it does not do us
any good to harm you or your development. It is a very important development for the community, we
certainly want to see it succeed, it is a matter of finding our what our real position is, you are right most of
us have not been involved and the Attorneys have changed and engineers have changed we have to get the
data together to understand it. You are telling me things I have not heard before, if the engineers tell us the
same thing maybe there is a resolution to this.
Mr. Bowen-I would be happy to open our files up....we have forty thousand pictures we take every time we
poured concrete on the project it is documented (showed pictures)...time dated you are welcome to any of
that stuff. We have kept the impact statement up to date...One other point, trying to help that development
the Town is in favor of that development, which is fine, if they are not in favor of it that is also fine, that
land has some technical problems that land desperately needs sewage if that thing is going to be approved.
The sewage lines that come up to the pump station we recommended a year and a half or so come into the
pump station that would be the best way for them to handle the sewage. The problem is coming up
Meadowbrook Road we had to blast all the way from the Girl Scout Camp bridge all the way almost half
way up to our pump station, you see the rock is right up to the road, right in front where they want to come
out so the only place to come up through either we give the Town right of way on our land to run sewage
line well out of the Town right-of- way or we give further road right of way which we are happy to do or
dig up and run up the center of the road because there is nothing in the center of the road. We have got
twenty-seven pair of telephone cables and two conduits, actually four conduits on the west side of the road
the whole width of it and it is a pain in the neck because it was done in 1953 and it meanders allover the
place. There are manholes that have to be pumped all the time so you have to stay right off that side. What
we chose to do was to cross our water lines and sewage lines the engineer chose to do that. Our water runs
on the West side of the road, sewage east side of the road and really we take up the whole right of way,
unless you do go up the center, it is expensive but is an alternative. The other way to do it is to go off on
their property at a different angle, the problem is they have a large chuck of wetland and you cannot take a
sewage line through a wetland or you are going abort Glens Falls right to use its own treatment plant
because of the John F. Kennedy executive order of 1962 that was a Federally funded plant does not allow
sewage that is either transported through a wetland or is created in a wetland to be processed in that plant.
If you flip over and go on the other side of the road and come out through one of our fields we would be
happy to do that, we would give the Town the right of way for them to come to the pump station, but then
in doing that you have a new developer, we have gotten many millions of dollars invested like we say and
we are paying to let somebody, we dedicated this to the Town but we did not build this for the Town to sell
or give capacity to other people, we did it for ourselves, okay selfishly I guess or whatever and we would
like to be paid for that. I mean, or one way maybe to relieve some of the things that this developer would
pay some of Hiland Parks capacity requirements or something it might be a fair way, all we're asking is a
fair approach. We love to help that developer or if you chose not to develop it again then that's another
thing. Certainly there are other developable lands that are north of here that could come to our system
because we have designed our, I wish I brought the big drawings, but we designed our system in this
christmas tree just like we designed our water system we could take water right out to Sunnyside Road and
up and down there we designed our system as kind of a through foot conduit that it is not just a system in
itself. I don't have anything else other than the capacity or whatever certainly we're open to all sorts of
recommendations. But, again that pump station cost us about $250,000 our sewage system, you know
we've got in our infrastructure we've got well over four and a half million dollars invested.
Councilman Caimano-I think we have additional information.
Supervisor Brandt-It's very interesting to me I've learned a lot here. I think there are some questions that
we need to get answers to and I think fairness is important.
Councilman Tucker-Monday morning quarterbacking, I wish we had done this fourteen months ago.
Supervisor Brandt-That's alright we know where we are. Gary my feeling is in the long run it's better for
the college and the Town if we can find a way to eliminate their water sewage and send it all to the...! think
that's by far the best answer. But, it has to be done with a total plan. Where are we going, we're looking at
this one developer what happens if we go beyond that. What about the rest of Bay Road from that
development south there are questions in there on how best to handle....
Mr. Bowen-Two and a half or three years ago and that's the first time I got involved with the college is that
we offered to run a line, cause that's when the college plant was really acting up we were facing with a
couple hundred thousand dollars rebuild for new tanks and so on. We paid for, I know it wasn't much it
was thirty five hundred dollars for our engineers to do a study that ran across the back of our land adjacent
to the college soccer field and run across from their system, I forget what the line was going to cost a
hundred twenty or thirty thousand dollars it would deliver their plant right into our station which is right in
line so that was an alternative. Now, the alternative to run through the Passarelli project it's a better
alternative. Number one, you don't have all that redundant line because, see the college doesn't want to
change their station location their interceptor location because all their lines are run there. As a matter of
fact a new building we've designed goes into those interceptor lines so you want to pick up from here and
either go that way or go down into the development out that way. I think that all the studies that I
remember and I'll tell you we've done a ton of them we've done all of the flight topos we gave to the
various developers around here including the Town the college all that information all the rock studies that
we did we did a lot of them we did them probably a half mile off our project all the way around. It's very
difficult to run sewage up Bay Road it's almost cost prohibited.
Supervisor Brandt -You could run it down to the low point.
Mr. Bowen-There are some slopes in the land that run east and west and northeast and southwest that allow
to slip where you can't run north and south because of rock formation. We had to cut through a major rock
formation like I say, to tie it's so it's all tied in. If you saw the way that was engineered every line had to be
poured in concrete that whole line for about eighteen hundred feet that sewer line is imbedded in concrete
where they want to come out and intersec. Technically there are some real issues there we'd be happy to sit
down with anybody and talk about it come up and use our files the drafting room we've got all the stuff
we'd be happy to dig all of these out. To help those people either get approved or not get approved if the
capacities there are ways to use the capacity. I would just hope that you don't have to take it away from
Hiland right now when again, we're a sitting duck we aren't able to do the things we like to do. Hiland is
not always going to be in the despair it's in.
Councilman Monahan-Isn't there a lot of rock on that Passarelli property?
Mr. Bowen-Yea.
Councilman Monahan-That's one thing that bothers me about them going to those single family homes and
spreading that allover if they had left it the was it was that infrastructure would of gone in a lot better, I
think. George Bard wanted to expand there one time and they just couldn't.
Mr. Bowen-Mike, see this the blast that we just did this the Passarelli property right here. This is rock it's
skinned off it's all imbedded in concrete all the way down.
Supervisor Brandt-What your saying is they should come north of there and then go into your pump station.
Mr. Bowen-Absolutely.
Councilman Monahan-I was wondering Mike how easy a time Passarelli is going to get across that property
particularly now they've put that in single family homes and spread it all over.
Mr. Bowen-We farmed that land for about five or six year we were going to buy it. We dug about thirteen
test holes out there before, what was his name, Bob Killian bought it. We were going to buy it from
Aronson and decided not to because of the wetland which wasn't a designated wetland at that time and the
rock because it's wet and where it's not wet it's rock.
Councilman Monahan-That's why Bard that time went to Massachusetts instead of expanding over across
the road there.
Mr. Bowen-That's right they had an option your absolutely right, they did.
Supervisor Brandt-I appreciate your input. We've got a lot to digest we need to do some research ourselves
now and then we'll get back to you.
Councilman Caimano-We have additional information if this information checks out there isn't any reason
to take that passage.
Supervisor Brandt-That's correct. That's my feeling.
Mr. Bowen-In the future for example as Hiland as Mr. Tharp knows Hiland is going to be sorted out in the
next year one way or the other and my guess is to leave Hiland's options open. If it benefits us fabulous if it
doesn't benefit us it ought to benefit the secured creditors of Hiland because they are going to benefit cause
they are all your neighbors.
Supervisor Brandt-Right, it's going to benefit the community. There is no question there is a enormous
investment there and it for the community's good. If we can do that we want to do that.
Mr. Bowen-Like I said, someday you may be forced to make the decision. But, your not forced to make
the decision maybe now is not the time to make the decision. Again, if Hiland's plan gets altered a bit we
had thoughts, we had people interested in doing various things and we keep using the umbrella of the
number of dwelling units approved and the number of occupations that are approved on the land. Some of
the people that have talked to us in the last few months certainly a second golf course would be very very
beneficial. We have a number of people that are talking to us about sizable hotels and have been for the
last two and a half years. If those things happen the sewage capacity does go down the dwelling unit
capacity goes down. I would imagine that with eleven hundred and fifty seven dwelling units approved a
majority of them being in a retirement village that retirement village is going to be a reality someday it's
just going to be. Like I say, I would love it if we were able to do it if we're not, somebody is going to do it.
We have a number of people in the last year that have talked to us about that. They are not from this area,
but they are large health care providers. Approvals in that area like we have are highly sought after this
area is highly sought after from that standpoint. Taking those options away, I don't think would be
beneficial right now.
Supervisor Brandt-Thank you.
DISCUSSION HELD
Supervisor Brandt -Discussion held with Board regarding International Paper Company of Ticonderoga.
International Paper has expressed interest in bringing sludge to landfill if they could get a waiver
exempting them from any responsibility regarding the landfill. It was the decision of the Town Board to
have Attorney Dusek contact the Attorney for International Paper in regard to this matter.
It was the decision of the Town Board to schedule a meeting for Thursday at 5 :30 p.m., with Harry Hansen,
Recreation Department regarding recreation fees.
A brief discussion was held regarding the filing of the Code of Ethics a further discussion to be held at a
later date.
Supervisor Brandt-Received letter from Mr. Charles McNulty, Wilton Site Review Committee stating the
site in Ward One is acceptable and the one in Ward Four is acceptable. Would like the Town Board on
their behalf take the position that they are acceptable sites and to make a decision on the site on Mountain
View Lane. After further discussion it was the decision of the Town Board that a resolution could be put
together to pass the findings of the committee along to the State. Attorney Dusek to put a resolution
together.
RESOLUTION ENTERING EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 275, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt
SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Regular Session and
moves into Executive Session to discuss one collective bargaining matter.
Duly adopted this 4th day of May, 1993, by the following vote:
All Those In Favor: Ayes
All Those Opposed: None
Absent: None
No further action taken.
On motion, the meeting adjourned.
Respectfully Submitted,
Darleen M. Dougher
Town Clerk
Town of Queensbury