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1993-05-06 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MAY 6,1993 5:30 P.M. MTG.#35 RES. 276 TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT Supervisor Michel Brandt Councilman Susan Goetz Councilman Nick Caimano Councilman Pliney Tucker TOWN BOARD ABSENT Councilman Betty Monahan Supervisor Brandt-Opened the Meeting Discussion held on Recreation Fees Mr. Harold Hansen-Parks and Recreation Director-This is the end of a four month investigation by the Recreation Commission and the department in our looking into the proposal for summer revenue, to increase it. The Board directed the department to give them some options for increasing revenue, together we chose two of those, general admission and the swim lessons and felt that those were the two areas that we could generate sufficient revenue by the numbers that participated in our program. Steve and I submitted to the Recreation Commission the summer program revenue proposal we discussed that at a meeting and they agreed that we should submit the proposal to the Town Board for your final approval. Supervisor Brandt -Questioned how the Board felt about the proposal. Mrs. Sharron Simmonds-The feeling was that the fees were something that was needed to be taken care of, we spent a lot of time deciding how we would come about to the different formals, they were are in favor of these. Supervisor Brandt-I have had a chance to look them over and they are, seem reasonable to me. As I have told you directly I would never make a fourteen dollar ticket or a nineteen dollar ticket I would make it fifteen or twenty, just for the sake of making change. Councilman Caimano- The change factor is a problem in slowing up the lines the other question is, over 15 year olds, why do we have the difference? Mr. Hansen-In all of our investigations with the majority of the other communities that charged, that was the break off...it is an average... Mr. Jack LaBombard-A fourteen year old is in 8th grade a fifteen year old is in 9th grade, a 9th grader starts to earn money... Mr. Hansen-Season passes will be sold only at the office... Councilman Caimano- The only thing that I would like to see, what is it going to cost me to put the turn stile in what is it costing to put the cash registers in and what is the profit and loss. Mr. Hansen-We had those last fall, I can dig them out again. The turn stile is $1800. the cash register is approximately $450. ...all part of the budget..revenue generated approximately $30,000. Mr. Jack LaBombard-Getting back to the age, I think it is obvious that it probably should be fifteen and twenty but I think fourteen and nineteen is sending a message to the taxpayers that we are tying to keep the price down. Supervisor Brandt-I am sure it relates to the family structure. Mr. Hansen-That is exactly how it is arrived at. You want the family rate less then if they did it separately. There is nothing that says we can't make it twenty and fifteen. Supervisor Brandt -You put a lot of work into this and I would stay right where you are. Councilman Caimano- Y ou guys did the work, all I can say is it looks reasonable, there is a profit out of it instead of a loss, it is all relative guess work. Mr. Hansen-We also took our '91 figures which were included in the analysis. Given an estimate of75% how much revenue would we get for swim lessons if we ran those same lessons today, we came up with a figure of population of Queensbury opposed to Elmhurst and then came up with family rates, children, what percent they sold and that is how we arrived at our total figure. We felt that we could generate almost 36,000 dollars with the figures that we had at a conservative estimate of75% of what we did in 1991. Councilman Caimano-How much negative PR do you think we will get and how long with the negative PR hold up? Mr. LaBomdard-When we designed this building at Gurney Lane we designed it with the idea that we would charge admission sometime and now that day has come...I like the term user fee.. .The first test came in the winter time, when we started charging five dollars for the wrestling and the basketball and it would seem logical that, that group of people might balk and nobody said a word and the attendance went up. I do not know what you are going to hear about Gurney Lane, I would be careful of using the term profit, we are not in the profit business...I have heard the figure of $35,000 I would hope that, that does not cover us all because that means that are programs are so successful, we got more kids we got more people we had to hire more staff, if that 35,000 covers us and we got four or five thousand left over for a bad year, good. Mr. Hansen-In the February report we showed you the cost of $67,592.81 to run just the open swim program in 1991 and to run the lesson program it cost you $17,733.03 with these numbers we are not going to break even we are subsidizing... Mrs. Simmonds-Yes, there may be some initial reaction to this but the expectation among many people that there would be a charge and we were concerned about the rate that we would start with knowing that we did not want to increase it, we wanted something that we could keep pretty steady. Councilman Tucker-The reports that I am hearing you have done a terrific program, and people are real happy with it. Councilman Caimano-Most people who move from out of town and I was one of them are surprised there are no fees. Councilman Tucker-As far as Gurney Lane goes people want fees in hopes that it would keep some people away. Mr. Hansen-The only thing the pool people will collect is the $1.00 daily admission fee for the child or $1.50 for an adult. Through Darleen's Office and the our front counter Season Passes will be sold here, swim lessons will be sold here. Supervisor Brandt -You will have some kind of a turn stile that gives you a check against your cash register... Councilman Caimano-Isn't that the Town Clerk's responsibility at the pool itself? Mr. Hansen-No. I collect money at my front counter and turn it over to her. I am going to have an accountability through our, we give a receipt for everything and then we give it to the Town Clerk in a lump sum they receipt us back double checking each other. Supervisor Brandt-Attendance control is the important one as long as you are addressing it and you have a system for it, it will be scrutinized by the public... Mr. Hansen-Discussed the freebies at the pre-season and the freebies at night...just so we do not dump on everybody, we are hitting people for the first time, we suggested that pre-season May 29th on weekends all the way to School ends, use of the pool on weekends be free...the same thing from 6 to 8 p.m. on the regular season. RESOLUTION TO SET RECREATION FEE SCHEDULE RESOLUTION NO. 276, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano I will make the motion to set your proposed fees schedule. Duly adopted this 6th day of May, 1993 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT: Mrs. Monahan (Schedule on file) On motion the meeting was adjourned. Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury Councilman Goetz-I have something that I wanted to ask you, you have been working on proposed additions to the Ethics Code. Attorney Dusek-Yes. Councilman Goetz-And how are we coming on that? Attorney Dusek-I am drafting various changes, I think as the result of what the Board had said to me the other day, you wanted me to contact Mr. Birch of the Ethics Advisory Committee because they apparently had some additional changes I have not yet done that. I would propose to do it just as quickly as we can, we have had certain number of other things come up here quite suddenly in terms of liability insurance forms that had to be completed there has been a few other things that have taken up our time including the landfill. We have gotten in the final reports last week on the landfill and just a number of things but if you want I can certainly undertake and try to make that a priority. Councilman Goetz-Have you gotten all the input from all the Town Board members that were proposing additions? Attorney Dusek-Not really I do not think at this point. I think we still, have to, maybe just, what I would propose I think, I have got a number of things that have come up over the past, almost ever since it was enacted there are a number of changes, we got quite a slew of them in the last time you went through an amendment process, this time would be the clean up of everything that everybody has asked me for and put it all in. Councilman Goetz-I think this is the time that I should really tell the public a couple of things that I am proposing. I have gotten requirements, fore instance Clifton Park has quite a few of the same things that I am going to make a partial proposal on and one is to make it a requirement that Town Employees and their spouses not hold an elected or appointed position in a political organization. I also would like to propose to make it illegal for employees to be soliciting political campaign contributions from other Town Employees or anyone doing business with the Town. I think I owe it to the Public to tell you why I am proposing these. When I ran for office two years ago I ran into a lot of trouble, I thought it was trouble, to do with this kind of thing. I think if legislation was enacted that was similar to this or just like I proposed it I think it would give a lot more creditability to the Queensbury Republican Committee. This would apply to all political committees but that is the committee that I had the experience with. Because, I believe it is perceived that the Queensbury Republican Committee is a mini labor union and I see a big problem with that. I really think it would increase the credibility of that committee if these things were enacted, because very often I have seen people put the party first good government second. Supervisor Brandt-Any other comments as far as I am concerned, there have been various discussions about additions to the Code of Ethics and I think it should have a high priority any other Board members want... Mr. Ronald Montesi-Mrs. Goetz, I just wanted to, I did not listen to your comments initially on the changing of the Ethics Laws, Councilman Goetz-You didn't? Mr. Montesi-I did not hear the beginning part, I heard the end part, you said something about employees not being related, I just need a little Councilman Goetz-I can read it again. Mr. Montesi-Yes. Councilman Goetz-It was the first one? Mr. Montesi-Yes. Councilman Goetz-I would like to make it a requirement that Town Employees and their Spouses not hold an elected or appointed position in a political organization. Mr. Montesi-What would that give me an example, fore instance, Tom Flaherty is head of water therefore he or any of his family should not be on... Councilman Goetz-Not any of his family, his spouse. Mr. Montesi-His spouse on the Republican Town Committee. Councilman Goetz-Right. Mr. Montesi-Ok, so. Councilman Goetz-Did you want me to read the second one? Councilman Monahan-I guess you haven't heard about equal rights. Mr. Montesi-Well, yea, I have some concerns that... Councilman Goetz-It is done in Clifton Park so it is not like an idea that flew in from outer space. Paul has the wording of it, Paul Dusek if you would like to see it. Mr. Montesi-The second part of it was there vendors, something about vendors? Councilman Goetz-Let me read the second one, make it illegal for employees to be soliciting political campaign contributions from other town employees or anyone doing business with the Town. Mr. Montesi-So that would mean that you would not be able to ask any of the Town Employees for a contribution for your campaign. I am not sure that really exists, I do not know it did not exist for me, I mean. Councilman Goetz-I will tell you one reason why I brought it up when I was at the Republican Committee one time, when I am invited, there was a Town Employee that said that they always got contributions for the Republicans from all the vendors that they dealt with. That kind of stuck in my head. Mr. Montesi-I am not 100% sure that's true either because Councilman Goetz-I heard it said. Mr. Montesi-Well. Councilman Goetz-Whether it is true or not, but why would they say it, if it wasn't true? Mr. Montesi-Well, you know we have the same situation that happened at the last election, where we had a major contributor from an insurance company and the insurance company then became a vendor for the Town, you know Councilman Goetz-Wrong. Mr. Montesi-That..some impropriety and it is over with it is done with and good, bad or indifferent, hopefully those types of things don't happen and then I think your third comment was about being, it is funny you would take the Republican Party and say that they unionism, that point is there are in our Town four to one elected or registered republicans or three or four to one registration so that many jobs that do get filled are going to be filled by Republicans, I mean it is a natural flow. On the same token this is a Republican Board of four to one and yet there are Democrats that serve and Independents and Conservatives that serve on our Planning Board and our Zoning Board so I mean, I think in the years that I served for six years and the years that you have I think I have seen not a one party dominating, I think naturally Mike has an appointment to make as an Executive Secretary, I am sure it is going to be a Democratic, I would be hard pressed initially when he did do it you go to your friends you go to the people that support you I think that is the nature of the political life. I am not saying it is right, but there was twenty eight hundred jobs that changed in Washington when Bush left and Clifton came. That happens too... Councilman Goetz-I think your point is well taken, what makes it right. Supervisor Brandt-I have never looked, but I think I have heard that my Executive Secretary is a Republican Mr. Montesi-Now she is. Supervisor Brandt-I have never looked. Councilman Goetz-I do not even know. I mean Supervisor Brandt-I do not care. Councilman Goetz-I do not care about Party and I know that has gotten me into trouble but I am for the best person not the party. Mr. Montesi-I think on the whole the people that sit on this Board weight that, I do not think in six years of being on the Board, and I bet you there is not one of you folks that are sitting there that when a job position came up that I am sure Mike didn't go to the Democratic Town Chairman and say I got a good Secretary's job you got any Democratic he looked for the most qualified person. Councilman Goetz-I do not know what he did, but Councilman Caimano-But you do know this though when we had the opportunity that was not looked at, we cannot say what it was, when we interviewed for Boards in this town Mr. Montesi-You never looked at party. Councilman Caimano-We never, we went out of our way not to look for Party. Mr. Montesi-I think some of the things that you are proposing are fine, I am not sure they are workable because in most cases in politics in Republican, Democratic, Conservative, it is the people that are active, it is the people that come out to be counted it is the people, like yourself, all of you Board Members and make a commitment to serve that get involved and the circle of friends around you. Sometimes you cannot help but have a spouse or a friend. Councilman Goetz-Dip into the word patronage, can happen a lot, lets face it. Mr. Montesi-That is utopia. Councilman Goetz-This is a national movement, not just local. Mr. Montesi-I think you need to be careful on how rough you bang, it is both sides it is not only the Republican Party, it is the Conservatives, its the Democratic its the nature of the beast and if you trying to solve that you are trying to solve the politicalism in any town whether it be Republican, Democratic or Conservative and Councilman Monahan-I can only say that in the twelve years that I served on this Board and interviewed many candidates both were volunteer and paid position the one question that no one to my knowledge ever asked was the political party that someone was affiliated with. It was just never asked, nor was it ever checked or ever looked up. I have a little problem with Sue saying of getting Spouses involved because in this day of equal rights you are again putting them back under the servitude type of thing, I have a little problem with that. Councilman Goetz-I remember when we interviewed people we never asked what party anybody was in but you asked a lot of people if they contributed to, what was it? Councilman Tucker-Anybody on the Board. Councilman Goetz-Anybody on the Board their campaign. Councilman Monahan-I did, I did or did they work for that campaign it never influenced my vote I only did that in case any of the public brought that up I knew which way the answer was, but I do not think you saw influence any vote that I ever did. Mr. Lewis Stone-I am running for Town Board, I certainly do not disagree with what Susan is saying I think Ethics are a very important in running for Public Office and being in Public Office, I think the word that I know Mike as been striving for and Sue just said it, is competence and that is the thing we need in every office in the Town is competence and we get this by having people apply to the job, we look at the application on the basis of what they have done who they are the kind of education they have, the kind of experience they have and then we decide the best person for the best job and that is the only way that I see that we can do the best job for the Town of Queensbury.