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1993-06-10 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING JUNE 10, 1993 7:00 p.m. MTG.#43 RES. 340-341 TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT Supervisor Michel Brandt Councilman Betty Monahan Councilman Susan Goetz Councilman Nick Caimano Councilman Pliney Tucker Town Attorney Paul Dusek Supervisor Brandt-This is a meeting of the Town Board, we originally announced it as workshop on the revised sign ordinance I made known to the Town Board Members that I wanted to try and bring a resolution to where we are going and how we are getting there on the expansion of the Water Treatment Plant. An enormous amount of discussion has taken place through the day on how to proceed and where we are and what we have accomplished and I am not sure I understand it all. I think I will open it up to the Board for an open discussion and look at how we can proceed. In history we had about three months ago a discussion where O'Brian and Gere had made their pitch, we had asked Kestner Associates to update a 1988 or 1987 report that they had done on expansion of the plant. Both of those were reported to the Board, later in a regular meeting I tried to form a resolution to move the process and pick an engineering firm and start the process having never been through or at least not recently the whole process and all the legal changes and with not knowing what took place in the background I probably flubbed by rub on that one. After re-reading it and looking at it carefully and my feeling is that my conclusion is that we would be smart to go right now for a map, a request for proposal for the whole job. Itemizing first of all what it is we are going to build and secondly asking for a map, plan and report and a price on that asking for a price on the design of the facilities separately asking for a separate price on the over seeing of the construction of the facilities and asking for a lump price for all of them put together. That is what, that is the way I envision it. Councilman Caimano-You mean opening it up? Supervisor Brandt -Opening it up and defining right now as far as I am concerned I think the will of the Board has been expressed to build a five million gallon a day expansion that is to take the plant to ten million gallons a day, that is five million plus an extra filter so that it is rated at ten million. Look for a price I think it is the will of the Board to look at the expansion of the water capacity, water storage capacity on Gurney Lane and separately for a price for putting a larger line underneath the Northway in the neighborhood of Gurney Lane by Exit 20. Is that a fair summary, is that a reasonable way to proceed as far as the Board is concerned? Councilman Tucker-What happens with all the stuff that we paid for prior to this? Supervisor Brandt-It is an education. Councilman Caimano-It is not wasted money because what it really is, that is right, is the education which allows to now make a reasonable request for quotation. While you can say we spent a few extra dollars I think in fact as Mike points out it is an education for this Board, and I think as a result of that we can form a better request for quotations, request for proposal. Councilman Monahan-You are talking Mike about publishing a request for proposal and opening this up to engineering firms to come and give us a proposal for these different phases that you just mentioned? Supervisor Brandt -Yes. While that may take us a little extra time to do I think it is the cleanest. Councilman Monahan-So that we have a comparison. Supervisor Brandt -Yes Councilman Caimano-I have to tell you from, it satisfies me because I have asked for that from day one so I am happy with that. Even though we are doing this off night I noticed that the Post Star is here and in fact the public will be... Supervisor Brandt-I told the Post Star that I intended to bring the subject up, I told Paul Ertelt that some days ago. I think one of the things we have ought to do is clearly go on record as a Board then stating item by item what it is we as a Board want a request for proposals on and the first thing I would suggest and we will poll the Board and that is a plant capacity of ten million gallons per day as rated by the Department of Health. Councilman Monahan-You are talking about total. Supervisor Brandt-Total Councilman Monahan-Now, what you are saying to us I think then throwaway this resolution that came in our packet and we are not paying any attention to this resolution at all. Supervisor Brandt-That is right. Councilman Caimano- Ten million gallons a day it seems to me reasonable. (Agreed to by the entire Board) Councilman Monahan-I am a little concerned that we may be undercapacity some days. Councilman Caimano- The next question is the plant will be built in such a way so that the plant can be expanded in the easiest way if we see that we are going to need more capacity, far more than we are planning for. Supervisor Brandt-I think there is two from my understanding of what I have seen of the plant design that it is natural from the original design to be able to expand this plant in five million gallon modules the original plant was thought to be a five million gallon per day plant it is not because of the requirement that you have duel, if one filter goes down then you are rated accordingly, but we would make a ten million gallon capacity and we could go to a fifteen million gallon capacity if we want to go more then that then there is going to have to be some alteration of the design as I understand it but that can be done too at any time. Councilman Caimano-My concern is that we, is that we are limited on the property, it is one thing to say you, if you had the property there is a lot of things you can do, the property limits us. Councilman Monahan-You are talking about not getting something in the way so that we cannot expand on that property in the future. Councilman Caimano-Sludge lagoons for one thing. Supervisor Brandt-We need to continue with the negotiations with Niagara Mohawk for more land to do this. I have chosen not to continue with that negotiation so long as we are looking at the Hudson Pointe Project, because I think that it is easy to get leverage or to confuse the two and I think properly as soon as we finish our deliberations on the Hudson Pointe proposal with Niagara Mohawk as basically brought to us that we go back to them and ask for purchase of land, separate items. Do you see any problem with that Paul? Attorney Dusek-No, as long as you do not need any land immediately for the plant, I thought there was one or two very small parcels that you do need immediately. Supervisor Brandt-There is a small parcel where the leach field is located, but it is my understanding that Niagara Mohawk has agreed to sell that and that the paper trail, we are ready to pursue the paper trail and complete the transaction on that. Attorney Dusek-Is that something that I should proceed with at this point to try and close it out with a contract and get that parcel done? Supervisor Brandt-I think we have to. Is that agreeable to the Board? Councilman Monahan-We need to get that done. Before you leave the plant capacity please, is this going to involve any changes with the pumps along the river for the ten million gallons per day, there was some talk and I forget at which capacity it was. Supervisor Brandt-Whatever it takes. Councilman Monahan-So we are including that we want them to look at the intake from the River. Councilman Caimano-Absolutely. Supervisor Brandt-I think that we concluded that in this plant expansion we want to have a safety system on our chlorination, on our chlorinating facilities so if there is a chlorine leak that whatever the mechanism is that it neutrailses the chlorine gas so that it is not a hazard to the people that live in that area. Is that agreed by everybody. I think we have all agreed on that in the past. (Board polled-agreed to) Councilman Tucker-That is something that should have been done years ago. Supervisor Brandt-That would be another part of it, we would request. Attorney Dusek-What was the official name for that Mike. Supervisor Brandt-A Scrubber. Chlorine Scrubber. Councilman Tucker-That entails a whole new building for that, correct? Mr. Quentin Kester-You are going out for proposals I guess you will find out. Councilman Caimano-We will go out for proposals each may have a different idea on how to do it. Supervisor Brandt-We talked about including a one million gallon storage facility at Gurney Lane and I think that should be looked at did we decide if that should be concrete or that should be steel? Councilman Caimano-I think again we let that, since we are opening up the bids we let the people ... Supervisor Brandt-Look at proposals both ways, I think, is that reasonable? Councilman Caimano-It is to me. Councilman Monahan-Mike, would this be in place of or in addition to the present facility? Supervisor Brandt-In addition to the present facilities and to include the construction of and I do not know what size the service is to go under the Northway the ... Mr. Kestner-16" Supervisor Brandt-16" lets specify 16" line at the Northway crossing. We talked about an improvement in the sediment gathering system in our clarifiers needs to be we need a proposal for harvesting sediment during the winter. Councilman Caimano-Sludge disposal Supervisor Brandt -Sludge disposal facility for the new plant has to be included. I would like to ask our water department to immediately prepare a request for proposal on this and I would like to give them a deadline for preparing it because I think we have been through this enough that it should not be that hard to do. Councilman Monahan-I think there is one more point, and that was in the induction of the chemicals, chemical feed Councilman Caimano-Whether we needed to have more or less or whatever, I think that will come with the proposal. Councilman Monahan-I think that we should mention that as a point that they are to look at that. Supervisor Brandt-Another point that we need to bring up is the instrumentation of the plant we need to review an upgrade of the current instrumentation as well as adding the instrumentation that is necessary for the new plant. In otherwords our instrumentation is dated and we also should be looking at the potential using a computer to record data from the instrumentation. That would be another part. Are we forgetting any? Councilman Caimano-We may be I think the water department may have some other additions to make and you started to say you wanted a dead line. Councilman Tucker-I do not want to be a hard head about this but it seems like we are going right back to ground zero. Somebody please explain to me why do have got to, why we have to? Attorney Dusek-What we have here is a situation where a couple of years ago you would not have to do any of this. Also what you have is a situation where a couple of years ago the process was started actually four years ago, five years ago the process was started and a couple of years ago it was restarted and then it was stopped because of the various philosophical differences of how this thing should be constructed and during that time frame of when it was stopped you get into a situation where you are trying to switch horses in midstream only this time the horse that you want to switch to has now backed up ten steps so you cannot do it you have to go back and get the horse, the laws have changed since the time this process began a couple of years ago in 1992 this Board adopted a purchasing policy the first ever for the Town in terms of a through comprehension policy, the Town has always had purchasing policies but not of a nature that you adopted in 1992. That was triggered by the General Municipal Law change of 104B which said that anything that you have in terms of a purchasing that does not require bids you have to address it specifically in terms of how you are going to pay for those services how you are going to select those services. Then it goes on and it says you can have some exceptions but you have got to have some really good rational behind what you are going to accept out and you have to have a basis for doing that. When you adopted your purchasing policy last year and if you recall in the beginning you just simply mentioned professional services at that point you did not have any kind of a ten thousand dollar limitation on it. During the course of the year I had some conversations with somebody from the State Comptrollers Office and they, said we feel your purchasing policy should defiantly address this issue of professional services. At that point I got concerned because I saw and also I was experiencing some difficulties in terms of when you have small quick needs for maybe a thousand dollar service or something the request for proposals just did not seem practical, so that ten thousand dollar threshold got placed in based on experience and practice yet still providing you with a mechanism by which you could secure these request for proposals. When we got into this process there was initial thought that the request for proposals that the Town had previously done could be utilized to help save some of this down time that you are noting here Pliney and what we found out however was that it was not a request for proposals that was utilized but rather a request for qualifications. At that point that gave me further concerns and I spoke to Mike today and I will tell you quite honestly when I looked at this thing when ever it first came up this week or two ago I assumed and that was one of the things when you I am going to blame it a little bit on the fact that I have been very busy and did not have enough time to really look at it over thoroughly but I assume that this was a request for proposals I had always thought of it that way and so I felt there is a reasonable opportunity to rely on what you previously had. It was brought to my attention that it was not a request for proposals used and because of that now you really have got to go back because of the change in the laws and everything, you have really got to go back and you are starting from ground zero. I will tell you the safest way to go through a project is to start at ground zero and proceed cleanly through it because then it is very predictable, you know exactly the steps that have to be taken you just follow them, they are like building blocks. To try and sort this other mess out now with request for qualifications vs. request for proposals changes in the laws like I say you are trying to change horses in midstream and it is extremely difficult and you could be caught up on some technical violation or you could be caught up in some problems that you really do not want to have. Councilman Caimano-We are trying to spend a considerable amount of the Town's money and we ought to do it right, that is all. Councilman Tucker-I guess the question I have got to ask is we start this process and we are coming down the pike to an election and something happens that this does not take place and the board is gone the next board has got to go through this same thing again? I know Nick said just a few dollars but, O'Brien and Gere was a hundred and forty or a hundred and sixty thousand dollars, I mean that is not a few bucks. Councilman Caimano-By the same token Pliney, the previous Board as I understand it anyway, did pass a resolution giving the job to O'Brien and Gere which this Board then decided was not the right thing to do, which is this Board's prorogrative. Councilman Tucker-In otherwords this could happen again, right? Attorney Dusek-Depending upon the timing of the situation and if you had a change obviously there is a possibility it could happen. However, a lot of it depends on how far along in the procedure you are. Obviously if you are out to construction and you have issued the contracts for construction nothing is going to change at that point and it is conceivable that you could be quite a ways along in the process before the end of the year. Supervisor Brandt -One thing we could do is ask for on the 20th of this month ask for the specs for the request for proposals that is some time, that gets it here before you go on vacation and that picks up many weeks and that is what Pliney is getting at and that is all of our frustration we have been three months fiddling around with this thing to get here, lets ask for that, is that reasonable? Attorney Dusek-I do not have any problem in reviewing them once they are here. Councilman Caimano-It certainly seems reasonable to me given the fact that we have gone thorough it many times but simply ask the water people, say look we are under kind of a gun here and what is your thought? We can go on the sense that we want to have it done in that time frame that is on the 20th and absent anything that we cannot foresee of this board will go along with it. Councilman Monahan-Now that would mean that it would get back to us for a Board meeting when Paul is not here to do the resolution, request for proposal.... Councilman Tucker-I think it should be pointed out that the Water Dept. has been part of this discussion right along, it should not be too difficult for them to sit down and put together what we have been talking about wanting to do. Councilman Caimano-Certainly this member of the Board who is also up for re-election is not, I believe in the Water Treatment expansion, I certainly want to move it as quickly as possible just do it the right way, that is all I ask for that is all I want... Attorney Dusek-If! have it by the 21st I can review it before I go... Councilman Goetz-It is the highest priority of our work and I would like to put it ahead of anything else, that week. Councilman Monahan-We are not asking in this request for proposals we are not going to talk or think about neighboring communities for this request for proposals....we are not asking anybody to do any of the negotiations or anything like that. Supervisor Brandt-That is right. Discussion held on the date and it was determined that they would ask for the Water Dept. to have the request for proposal draft done on the 18th of June...a date for a Town Board Meeting was tentative for the 23rd., Councilman Monahan noted that she may not be able to attend she would have to check and also noted she would not waive her right to vote on it. Councilman Tucker-This Town Board is run by a majority, right and what is the majority of this Town Board. Attorney Dusek-Three Councilman Tucker- Then how can Mrs. Monahan say that she won't waive her rights? If she cannot attend a meeting we have got to stop everything? Councilman Monahan-At a special meeting I have to waive my right to vote at a special meeting. Attorney Dusek-Noted that Special Meetings have unique rules whether or not you can set a special meeting if you set it far enough in advance and make it mandatory I would have to check that. Councilman Caimano-Lets, check the date.... Supervisor Brandt-Noted that we will address that Monday if we have to. Attorney Dusek-Noted that there will have to be a cut off date set for engineers to get the work back. . .4 weeks was agreed to by the Board... RESOLUTION REQUESTING DEVELOPMENT OF REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL ON WATER PLANT EXPANSION RESOLUTION NO. 340, 93 INTRODUCED BY Mr. Nick Caimano WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby indicates its desire to go out for request for proposals for engineering services for the development of a map, plan and report, design phase engineering to include bid package and construction, over site engineering services and as part of that request for proposal to have any engineer responding to the same address the following improvements to be made to the plant. 1. A plant that will ultimately be able to produce ten million gallons per day as rated by the State of New York and design such that it may be later expanded given property ownership constructions; 2. A plant that includes a chlorine scrubber; or alternative purification methods; 3. A plant design and distribution system to include a one million gallon per day storage facility at Gurney Lane in addition to present facilities and to include a sixteen inch service line to cross under the Northway; 4. A plant design to include scrapers to existing water clarifiers; 5. A plant which also includes an adequate sludge disposal facility which will will be adequate for a ten million gallon per day plant; 6. A plant design which includes a sufficient and adequate chemical feed facility; 7. Instrumentation and related computer hardware and software improvements for the existing plant as well as the new addition to be built; and that the request for proposals should provide for a response time of four weeks from the date that the Town Board approves the request for proposal at a Town Board Meeting, and the request for proposals should also include a request that the following services be provided both separately and in a lump sum fashion, map, plan and report, design to include bid package and construction over site engineering services, and map, plan and report to include services to the Town, in attendance at a Town Law Section 202B Public Hearing, and answering questions of the public at that hearing, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby requests that the Town Water Dept. and its staff furnish the a draft request for proposals in its entirety for the Boards review by June 18th 1993. Duly adopted this 10th day of June 1993 by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT: None Discussion held before vote: Unknown-Questioned if the Board would consider a turn key job? Supervisor Brandt-I would not be against that. Unknown-questioned the chlorine scrubber, there may be other better technology.. . added to resolution alternative purification methods under 2. change accepted and vote taken... WORKSHOP SIGN ORDINANCE GUESTS- Mr. Mike Baird-Mrs. Holly Wheller Mr. James Martin Executive Director- noted a few members of the Zoning Board are present -Linda, Ted and Bob Mr. Baird-requested permission to speak before the Town Board...noted it is worthless to even go over this new draft and make new rules if we cannot enforce what is wrong now... I am in favor of changing the code but it will hold no water unless we have enforcement... Councilman Tucker-What bothers me with the sign is someone can come along and put up a sign illegally and it sets there until they come in front of whoever they come in front of to get a variance and that is wrong. You take it down until you make it legal. Supervisor Brandt-I wouldn't mind a Sign committee to work on the Sign Ordinance bring it to the Town Board and let us adopt it... Sign Ordinance Discussion on page 1 Abandon Signs...not in new definitions Attorney noted there was a problem with the definition, noted definition was taken out Page 12 - A - wording changed ...all signs off premises direction signs must be placed on the parcel ofland from which the advertised activity, service or product is occurring and or being sold... Mr. Ted Turner-Noted he wanted to make sure that any mention of zone names be updated... Page 15 - N - dealing with maintenance vehicles that are left out as advertising... time limit of 7 days... Board asked that this be reworked... Page 13- F Projecting Signs- ...No projecting signs shall be erected or maintained Page 47 it specifies what specifics are allowed for projecting signs... Page 13 F take out... Mrs. Wheller-Page 12 B and Page 25 B No signs shall use reflective material which sparkles or glitters questioned gold leaf...would like it specified that it does not include that... I would like to get to the bottom line and have one draft that everyone in the committee agrees on and then walk in and say this is it...1 am willing to do it... Attorney Dusek-Noted that the Board wanted to revise the whole sign ordinance but suggested that it be done in sections.. Councilman Caimano-suggested that a standing committee be appointed and that committee takes one issue at a time... Councilman Goetz-Suggested that Betty and I represent the Town Board on the Committee.. Mr. Ted Turner-Noted areas that should be worked on-billboards, Temporary Signs, Advertising with Vehicles, Sign for Plazas-strip malls, address the issues that are current and get them done... Councilman Caimano- Would you submit from the Zoning Board a list of priorities so that they can be worked on? Mr. Turner-Yes. Councilman Monahan-Suggested that Mr. Turner serve on the committee... RESOLUTION NAMING MEMBERS TO SIGN COMMITTEE RESOLUTION NO. 341,93 INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano Members to the Queensbury Sign Committee: Councilman Betty Monahan, Councilman Susan Goetz, Mrs. Wheller, Mr. Jim Martin, Mr. Ted Turner, Mr. Mike Baird, Member of the Planning Board yet to be named. Duly adopted this 10th day of June, 1993 by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Brandt NOES; None ABSENT: None RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 342, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into executive session to discuss potential litigation. Duly adopted this 10th day of June, 1993 by the following vote: ALL THOSE IN FAVOR: AYES ALL THOSE OPPOSED: NONE ABSENT: NONE On motion the meeting was adjourned. Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury