1993-07-12
TOWN BOARD MEETING
JULY 12, 1993
7:03 P.M.
MTG #52
RES 396-404
BH 25-26
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
MICHEL BRANDT -SUPERVISOR
BETTY MONAHAN-COUNCILMAN
SUSAN GOETZ-COUNCILMAN
NICK CAIMANO-COUNCILMAN (entered meeting 7:25 p.m.)
PLINEY TUCKER
ATTORNEY
PAUL DUSEK
TOWN OFFICIALS
Mike Shaw, Jim Martin
PRESS: WENU
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY COUNCILMAN MONAHAN
Supervisor Brandt called meeting to order ... I'll make a motion to get into a session as the Board of Health
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR THE QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH
RESOLUTION NO. 396, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt
WHO MOVED FOR IT'S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns Regular Session
to enter as the Queensbury Board of Health.
Duly adopted this 12th day of July, 1993, by the following vote:
A YES: Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brandt
NOES: None
ABSENT: Mr. Caimano
QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH
Supervisor Brandt-The first order of business is a public hearing on a sewer variance. Whose going to lead
us in that?
Councilman Goetz-Dave Hatin has a letter here. In our materials today, there's a letter from Dave.
Supervisor Brandt -Gene, you're here to testify on their behalf, I'm going to open the public hearing, why
don't you go ahead and fill us in.
PUBLIC HEARING
7:05 P.M.
MR. EUGENE CHRISTIAN-Ladies and gentlemen of the Board, thank you for the time, I'll be brief
because of the heat and your agenda. I represent Neil and June Haverly who own property out on
Rockhurst Point on the northwest side of the peninsula approximately four houses from the end. They have
owned this property for some years now and they are thinking towards the future and hope perhaps to
occupy this property on a more permanent nature, in not the too distant future. As such, they have been
concerned about their on site sewage disposal system which is in operation now and continues to serve
them. However, they realize that with greater pressure on this system from full time living, they'll have to
go towards something that is according to code, both Health Department and Town of Queensbury. As
such, they have taken a look at their property and they do not have the necessary lot size to meet all of the
setbacks that are required in your ordinance. In actuality, they fail to meet two items in Appendix A of
your sewer ordinance, namely the setback from the lake and the setback from the road edge or the road
right -of-way. Specifically their lot is just over a hundred feet in depth, one hundred and fourteen, I believe
to be correct. And with the configuration of the lot, it's impossible to put a drainage field on their property.
As such the recourse they have for a house of three bedrooms size is to go to drywells. Drywells take on a
different posture in your ordinance in that when they're approximate to the lake they have to go back, not a
hundred but one hundred and fifty feet and up hill wise, have to go further yet. They don't have that
property. Now what they do have at the present moment is nothing more than an old fashion cesspool.
Now for those of you and I know Pliney and I know you, Mike have seen what the inside of those things
look like. It's a pathetic site and we ask mother nature to swallow it and more of it every day. Those in my
opinion as an engineer are the things that are doing damage to our lake and to the environment. I have
come up with a design which will give them drywells on their property which will meet one hundred feet in
setback but because the running out of the land very quickly at that point in time, can not be brought back
any further. We humbly submit that a variance in this particular case is gravely needed and I site the fact
that it will be a huge step forward as far as the lake is concerned and mother nature in that the sewage
coming out of the house will be treated at least through a septic tank which will devoid it of the solid
matters and reduce it to BOD and suspended solids. That material will then, the effluent will then be
pumped up to two drywells which will have a depth of eight feet and a diameter, internal diameter of six
feet and I have designed it to surround it with two solid feet around each of the tanks of number three
crushed stone, which will give them the volume that's required for the size of their house and take care of
the design flow. The land is slopping as most of you know on Rockhurst and the existing area where the
cesspool is and the septic tanks will be is approximately six feet below in elevation, the altitude at which I
will be placing the drywells. So, already I'm improving the vertical separation from the bottom of the
existing cesspool to the bottom of the proposed drywell and I'm moving the drywell back some thirty feet
from where the cesspool is today and I'm giving you a system that's designed in accordance with DOH
standards and Town of Queensbury standards. Now, at this point, that's kind of a thumbnail sketch of what
I propose. I've got the design here if any of you want to take a look at pump sizes and tanks and that stuff,
which I don't think is germane to the point. And I'll be glad to answer any questions from the Board or the
public that's meeting here.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-Let me ask you a question, in a septic or what do you call, the leach ...
MR. CHRISTIAN-The leaching device, yes.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT -Device, you have to have three foot of soil below the eight foot depth?
MR. CHRISTIAN-Yes, we have expedited a test hole over there Mike, we've gone the better part of eleven
feet which was pretty much the extent of the backhoe. Actually, I reported on my drawing ten feet. The
soils out there are absolutely uniform from the top to bottom and they're good, I should have mentioned
this. You have a medium sand out, at least particularly on Mr. Haverly's lot, mixed with about ten to
fifteen percent of clay. Now, just in anticipation of a question from the Board, I went out and ran a perk
test out there the other day and it came out just under fifteen minutes which is excellent for the lake
location. The last thing you want out there is a fast perk.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT -Right.
MR. CHRISTIAN-Which will take it right down and this clay consistency is consistent all the way down
through that test hole right to the bottom. As a matter of fact, I was rather amazed, the only thing that was
in there were stones to about ten percent and the rest was this clay sand mixture all the way down. It was
probably the best type of perk, anything beyond that is going to start to create a system so big that it makes
it difficult to design and anything less than that is going to give you pause because of speed with which it
will percolate into the ground and possibly get to the lake. It certainly is a giant step improvement from
what he has today and I guess I have to say what he has legally today, it is working. He is using it right
now, but he does recognize that this will be a tremendous improvement over what he has and it will give
him something that he can use on a more substantial basis.
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-Have you seen Dave Hatin's letter, that he sent to the Town Board, about this
application? Because I have a couple of questions that would refer to that.
MR. CHRISTIAN-Well, go ahead. Sue, I don't think I have it but shoot anyway.
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-Just let me read the first paragraph. This variance is a variance to place seepage
pits one hundred feet versus the required two hundred feet and on this application it looks like one fifty was
the requirement.
MR. CHRISTIAN-Well, when I spoke with Whitney down stairs, he said it has to be one hundred and fifty
feet back so I put that on the application. The two hundred refers to a sub-paragraph in your Appendix A
which goes down and says if your up hill, then increase the distance from one fifty to two hundred.
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-Okay, and then they are also seeking a variance for four feet and six feet,
respectively, from the property lines versus the required ten feet. And on the application or the resolution,
there's only indicated the one six foot variance, was there more than one?
MR. CHRISTIAN-No, I have a tank on each side of his existing parking lot and the lot is not perfectly
square. On one side it's six foot and on the other it's four.
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-Okay, so there are two side lines?
MR. CHRISTIAN-There's two drywells, that's correct Sue.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-Gene, I've been in a meeting this afternoon, as a matter off act on this subject
with the Lake George members of the Park Commission and DEC and a bunch of the supervisors that have
towns that abut the lake and we also had a meeting about this sewer problem or the perceived problem on
our shorelines all along the lake. In all of that, the technical people say that in certain, in good soils, you
don't need a hundred feet. That a hundred feet is a great, plenty and it's a great safety factor for a very long
term system and if your into high perk soils, then you've got to get out further and the two hundred feet
become important. But it sounds to me, what really gives me confidence in this is the types of soils you're
describing, because they are the best we could ask for.
MR. CHRISTIAN-Well, perhaps I'm remiss in not bringing in a sample to the Board but I can say that it's a
type that if you take it in your hand and squeeze it, it remains a solid mass when you open, instead of
falling apart as sand will do. And if you want to know, that's one of the first crudent?? tests that I perform
when I reach in and grab soil samples every time I design a system like this.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-So it sounds like, I mean not only will you get the filtration you want, certainly
for bacteria and virus and all that, but you've got an eye and exchange medium????, you've got a, with the
clay in it and you've got a long term solution and it sounds like a reasonable solution. So, I really have no
other questions for him.
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Mr. Christian, how close is this to any of the neighbor's septic systems?
MR. CHRISTIAN-I beg your pardon?
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Excuse me, how close is this to any of the neighbor's septic systems?
MR. CHRISTIAN-The, to the best of my, well, first of all, the lots out there are roughly a hundred feet
wide, right up and down. So, you can very, very closely approximate it's going to be a hundred feet from
the other neighbor's septic system, if Betty, they have been drawn back to the road which, unless I make an
engineering investigation, I can't tell you. So, I guarantee you got a hundred feet separation from the
neighbors and probably more in that they maybe of the same design and illth?? of that, which I am
Improvmg.
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-So, is it six feet variance from the north property line?
MR. CHRISTIAN-No, from the road property line, Sue.
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-From the road, okay.
MR. CHRISTIAN-I can meet the ten on both sides of the, both sides.
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-I see, so it's just not a straight line.
MR. CHRISTIAN-Yes, that's right.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT -Any other questions?
COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Definitely an improvement over what's there.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-Okay, it's a public hearing, is there anyone from the public that wants to
comment or ask questions about this? Okay, I guess not. Any other questions from the Board? Then I
declare the public hearing closed, thank you.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
Town Board held further discussion and the following changes were proposed to the resolution:
1. where it reads 150' separation in the first WHEREAS clause and number 1 of
the second RESOLVED clause, it shall read a 200'separation; and
2. the second RESOLVED clause shall now read, 4' and 6' respectively for
each drywell from the property line addressing the roadway, rather than placing them at
the mandated 10' distance;
(Councilman Caimano entered meeting)
RESOLUTION APPROVING A SANITARY SEW AGE DISPOSAL VARIANCE
FOR NEIL P. AND JUNE M. HA VERL Y
RESOLUTION NO. 25, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan
WHEREAS, Neil P. and June M. Haverly previously filed a request for two (2) variances from
certain provisions of the Town of Queensbury On-Site Sewage Disposal Ordinance, such provisions being
more specifically that requiring that there be a 200 foot separation between the seepage pits and the Lake
George shoreline, and a 10' separation between the seepage pits and the property line, and
WHEREAS, a notice of public hearing was given in the official newspaper of the Town of
Queensbury and a public hearing was held in connection with the variance requests on July 12, 1993, and
WHEREAS, the Town Clerk advises that property owners within 500 feet of the subject property
have been duly notified,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED,
a) that due to the nature of the variances, it is felt that the variations will not be materially
detrimental to the purposes and objectives of this Ordinance or to other adjoining properties or otherwise
conflict with the purpose and objectives of any plan or policy of the Town of Queensbury;
b) that the Local Board of Health finds that the granting of the variances is necessary for the
reasonable use of
the land and that the variances are granted as the minimum variances which would
alleviate the specific unnecessary hardship found by the Local Board of Health to affect the applicant; and
c) that the Local Board of Health imposes a condition upon the applicants that they must
also secure the approval of the New York State Department of Health, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town of Queensbury Local Board of Health grants the variances to Neil P.
and June M. Haverly, allowing the placement of the seepage pits:
1) 100' from the Lake George shoreline, rather than placing them at the mandated 200'
distance; and
2) 4' and 6' respectively for each drywell from the property line addressing the roadway,
rather than placing them at the mandated 10' distance;
on property situated on Rockhurst, the fourth house on the north west side, Queensbury, New York, and
bearing Tax Map #: Section 15, Block 1, Lot 20.
Duly adopted this 12th day of July, 1993, by the following vote:
A YES: Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Brandt
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAIN: Mr. Caimano
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH
RESOLUTION NO. 26, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt
WHO MOVED FOR IT'S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Board of Health hereby adjourns and enter Regular Session of
the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury.
Duly adopted this 12th day of July, 1993, by the following vote:
A YES: Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz,
Mr. Brandt
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
QUEENSBURY TOWN BOARD
OLD BUSINESS
PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED
PROPOSED MOBILE HOME PARK / MR. BARRY CONVERSE
SUPERVISOR BRANDT -Come on right up and talk to us.
MR. TOM NACE-For the record, my name is Tom Nace with Haanan Engineering representing Barry
Converse. As you recall, a couple of weeks ago, there were some concerns expressed by the Board and by
the audience in the public hearing. We've gone back to the drawing board a little bit, tried to address those
and I'll quickly cover the changes we've done. First of all, we have now increased the twenty-five foot
buffer to a fifty foot buffer along the east edge of the property and increased the buffer even more up by
cutting the northeast corner at a diagonal. We've also shown a six foot high stockade fence directly behind
the trailer lots on the east side between the lots and that fifty foot buffer, so that will tend to keep or
preserve that buffer as a real buffer. Secondly, there was some concern voiced that we should be providing
some, possibly a picnic area and place facilities for kids in the mobile home park. It was originally
suggested that we consider that over, adjacent to this buffer, increased buffer to provide additional
buffering from the residents, I think it's on Michaels and Amy Lane. After considering that, we thought it
might be a better idea because of the noise and confusion generated by, you know play yard, play facilities,
what have you, it might be better to keep that internal to the park and leave these as individual, individual
trailer sites over here that might be quieter and not generate as much noise. So we left those trailer sites on
the east side and we moved that playground here internal to the park at a place where it can be closely
supervised by the owner who lives right here. (referred to map)
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Tom, excuse me, what is the size of the playground?
MR. NACE-The overall lot, I don't have the scale right here but if that's fifty-five, it's approximately a
hundred by a hundred and twenty-five or a hundred and thirty. The Planning Board in their discussion of
the project had indicated that they want to have a little better idea of grading and drainage. So on one of
the sheets I believe it's, on sheet Dl, we've provided a typical grading plan taking some lots up on the north
side that have the most cross slope to them and providing a typical grading plan that shows how those
would be leveled off for trailer sites and provide some terracing between the lots. Drainage will primarily
be handled in road side ditches that are shown in the typical road section. It's a very grassy, sandy soil that
will probably infiltrate most of the runoff. However, we've also added some drywells out at critical
locations where those road side ditches come together and down before they go off the property, just to take
care of any possible over flow that we might have from the ditches. I don't think there will be any, being
acquainted with the soils fairly well but it's a belt and suspenders.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. MARTIN-How many drywells are there, Tom?
MR. NACE-Let's see, there are three, four, five, there are five drywells. At the intersection, there primarily
where the road grades come together and might tend to trap drainage down at the intersection of the two
roads in the development and also down at the intersection of the main access with Warren Lane, just to
prevent any ponding?? or possible over flow onto Warren Lane. And I think the last issue that the Board
was concerned about were rules and regulations or covenants. We've provided you with a list of the
covenants which address your primary concerns regarding noise, pets and vehicle or storage. So, if you
have any specific questions, I'll try to address them.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-And by the way, this was a public hearing and we never adjourned it, so, there is
a forum here for public input. If somebody want's to be heard, just raise your hand and we'll try and
recognize you. I have a couple of questions. On Warren Lane, I see there are two fire hydrants basically
adjacent to the whole project.
MR. NACE-Those are existing, yes.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-Right, but I only see one in the project.
MR. NACE-That is correct. We took the distances away from the existing fire hydrants here and figured
that one fire hydrant and I think the location serves two purposes, one for flushing the lines and second, to
provide access to the rest of the site. It meets ...
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-It just seems to me that you're putting quite a concentration of housing and those
homes are fairly close together and it would seem to me that, if we're requiring our own selves to put a fire
hydrant every four hundred feet, it almost seems like there ought to be at least one at each end of the
project.
MR. NACE- The town standards are eight hundred feet, typical with a maximum of a thousand and that's
what we've gone by, we normally do.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-But it's also much lower density normally in the town then what you have here.
So, you know ...
MR. NACE-Well, that's true but they're larger structures. There's not that much in a trailer to produce a
long lasting heat.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-That's true.
MR. NACE-So I, you know, we've got the distances that most of this area can be served by at least two
hydrants within reasonable length of a pumper. You know, if it's a real major concern, we could consider
another hydrant but I, when I laid out the water system, I didn't feel that it was necessary.
COUNCILMAN CAIMANO-Do you have any comment on that Jim?
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. MARTIN-Usually the town standards are more then fine and he is right
that these are the smaller size then the average house in town. I've never known where the town standards
have caused a problem or where we have lack of, you know, adequate water.
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Jim, has the fire chieflooked at this?
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. MARTIN-No, he has not. No, he has not looked at it.
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-How come? Normally we get their comments for things like this.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. MARTIN-He has not seen it.
MR. NACE-We would be glad to be another hydrant in, if the fire chief and the authorities, you know,
deem it necessary but maybe the fire department should look at it.
COUNCILMAN CAIMANO-I think so too.
MR. NACE-Sure.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-I think that's fair, is to ask their input and if they would, if they feel it's necessary
then you include one. Otherwise, I don't want to pretend that I have more knowledge then they do, I
certainly don't.
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-They usually like to look at this Mike, for the roads to make sure they can
get their equipment around all the radius and everything like that and that's why I'm a little surprised this
wasn't sent to them for comment.
COUNCILMAN TUCKER-I have a couple of questions.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-Go ahead.
COUNCILMAN TUCKER-I noticed gravel roads, they're going to maintain them themselves?
MR. NACE-Yes, they are private roads. The public access ends at Warren Lane.
COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Okay, how about the water system, they're going to maintain that themselves?
MR. NACE-That's, yes, they have to. They can't, it can't be a town maintained system on private land.
COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Okay.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT -Any other questions?
MR. NACE-In fact, there's a master meter. You'll see a meter pit right at where we connect to Warren
Lane, that's what that's for.
COUNCILMAN TUCKER-And that's where the town's responsibility ends at ...
MR. NACE-That's correct ...
COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Okay.
MR. NACE-And I've coordinated that with the water department as far as the ... the details of it.
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Tom, are all these roads going to be gravel?
MR. NACE-Yes. It will be, it's, you know a compacted surface treated gravel. But yes it's not, it's gravel.
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I'm just thinking of dust and the kind of weather we're having right now.
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-When we discussed this last, whenever it was as a Town Board, I made a note
that we wanted to limit the time that any recreational area that was used for noise control. And do you feel
that's been addressed by 1.5 in your proposed rules and regulations?
MR. NACE-Yes, I do.
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-And that answers that question that came up?
MR. NACE-That's what the intention of the way that's worded was for.
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-Okay.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT -Any other questions?
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well, I'll confess Mike, I'd like to see blacktop roads because I've been in
mobile homes parks that are not blacktopped and these roads get the great big holes in them, you drop a
wheel in and so on and so forth.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-Come on right up and talk in the microphone because it's an official record, if
you would.
MS. BARBARA PERRY-Well, I live on Amy Lane and I'm very concerned about this trailer park that's
going in back there and I wonder, is this something that's already been approved and is definitely going in?
I missed my letter in the mail, so I missed the first meeting and a neighbor told me about this, that's why
I'm here tonight. And I also wondered, is this plan available for us to look at, so that we can see what's
going on?
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-We had one meeting already where it was public and that was, the plans were
made available and really it's up to the Board at this point to act one way or another on this. There was
some neighbors that expressed, they wanted more buffer towards the Amy Lane side and that's what was
changed. The added, what twenty-five feet, if! remember right, is that correct, a buffer to make a fifty foot
buffer and they added a fence as a noise barrier along that side. That concern was expressed. I'm not an
expert on our law but this is an overlay zone, right, and it's for the Town Board to decide. They have a
right to come and apply for this and it's purely a Town Board decision whether it's granted or not. There's
not a schedule for it, it's up, you know, it's being heard right now and it's up to the Town Board what ever
their will is.
MS. PERRY-So, you haven't approved it as yet?
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-We have not, as yet.
COUNCILMAN CAIMANO- This is what we're, that's what we're sitting here tonight for.
MS. PERRY-Well, I, my property will border on the edge of this as well as Mr. Thompson that was here at
the last meeting and I don't know exactly where this comes up to it. I don't know any of the details of that
and I know apparently that doesn't ...
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-Tom, do you want to take some time and show her the overall, so you get a feel
for it.
MR. NACE-Sure. (Mr. Nace presented plan to Ms. Perry at the map table - inaudible)
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-Can we have your name for the record?
MS. PERRY-Barbara Perry.
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-Right, okay. Did you have the question answered then?
MS. PERRY-Yes, I did.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-How does this look to you after you look at it?
Does this seem reasonable or not?
MS. PERRY-Well, I guess if you live where I do, I would rather have it forever wild, that's why we like it
there. But, you know, if it's something that we have no control over, then I guess there's not a heck of alot
we can do about that. It's nice there now and I'm concerned that it will bring down the value of my
property. I'm concerned, I wonder if I look out my back window and if I'm going to see trailers and if I do,
that will take care of the value of my property alot.
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-I think one thing that we talked about before was that, defining what the buffer is
going to be and I think that's something that we should do as a Board because a buffer can be alot of
different things and it's trees right now.
MS. PERRY-I hope they leave alot of trees there. If they include the fence along with alot of trees on the
other side of the fence, I think that will help cut down on the dust, the noise and being able to visually see
the trailer park from our properties.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT -Do you want to comment on that?
MR. NACE-I think that the, she said the buffer strip plus the fence on this side of it. From the back corner
of her property is about a hundred and twenty-five feet or a hundred and thirty feet to the property line here
and an extra fifty. So, she's looking at a hundred and seventy-five to two hundred feet maybe to the fence.
So, if we do leave that treed, I would suggest that you put in your resolution the definition of what you
want that to be and that's what we'll go by.
MS. PERRY-I'm fortunate that I have the cemetery that will help act as a buffer but I'm also here to ...
COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Is there plenty of growth there now?
SUPERVISOR BRANDT -It's pine, it's scrub pine and brush.
MS. PERRY-Yes.
COUNCILMAN TUCKER-Well, I mean, what's native to the area, right?
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-Yea.
MR. NACE-Yea, that area was burned over a good many years back.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-It certainly was farmed at one time for something because it's fairly new growth.
MR. NACE-Yes.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT -Okay, thank you. Is there anyone else that wants to comment on this?
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-Yea, the other thing I wrote down, maybe Betty and I just talked about it but
that, remember Betty we talked about capping this at forty-eight lots?
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yes.
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-Because they could have up to sixty-five.
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yea.
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-Did we talk about that to you people?
COUNCILMAN TUCKER-No, no, that went on at the end of the table.
COUNCILMAN GOETZ-That's what I thought. Well, what do you think about it?
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-Well, I think so. I'm wondering in my own mind ifforty-eight is a little dense
and you ought to drop to something a little less than that. But I don't know, you know, I don't know what's
reasonable. Certainly, what bothers me, we'll sit here and look at this as a formal trailer application and
we're really basically going four lots to the acre, and we had a private citizen asking us for, what was it,
half acre lots and that got tumed down by this same government, not this Board but another Board. And it
almost, you know, that's bothersome to me. I think we ought to have a set of standards for trailers and
that's what they are and we shouldn't have a double standard.
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Well, the other thing too Mike, I think you have to think of is, what size
mobile home is coming in here. You know, if you've got a double wide or a triple wide, you're taking alot
of the piece of property up and not leaving an awful lot of green. So, I think automatically you tend to
think of a single but some of the mobile homes today are getting quite large, as you go out around mobile
home parks. And if they're going to have like a storage shed and things like that and they've got to park a
car.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT -Do you want to comment on that?
MR. NACE-Sure. Mr. Converse tells me that their intention is to have all singles, that they have thought
about having doubles down at one end, maybe making some of the lots larger for doubles but their intention
after discussing that, their decision is to leave it so that it will all be singles. We both realize that if you put
a double on here, that it does, it makes it almost impossible to develop that size oflot. As far as the ...
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-Would you accept it as a restriction?
MR. NACE-Sure, yes.
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-And what size single?
MR. NACE-What size?
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Yea.
MR. NACE-These have been laid out, do you remember the size we laid these out at? I don't have a scale
right here.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-What size are sold in the market place today?
MR. CONVERSE-Most of them are fourteen by seventy, fourteen by eighty, I think, I've heard up to eighty
feet.
MR. NACE-If! remember, I think we laid these out at sixty-five feet long. Oh, there is a scale, super. I
stand correct, these are laid out at sixty feet by fourteen, so they are the correct width and most of the lots
have enough depth that there can be an extra ten feet front and back, front or back. As far as the overall
density, we are willing to accept a cap that this would be all this piece of land could ever be developed for.
Okay, and whether it fills up to the forty-eight remains to be seen but we don't know for sure what the
market is. It is still one piece of land, it's not like a subdivision where you're dividing it and that's going to
be the total future of that land. And we are, you know, like I think Betty said, we are below what the
permissible would be, I believe of sixty units given the existing zoning and the parcel of land. This is one
of the few mobile home overlay zone sites that still remains in the town and I think that making wise use of
it at the density that it was zoned for or at a reasonable density there close to that, makes sense.
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Jim, what is the rule and regulation about a buffer zone around a mobile
home park in an overlay zone? I'm asking that because I'm looking for the lands of Carter Johnson and I
don't see any buffer zone around his land. The road becomes apparently the buffer on the right-of-way and
if that gentleman wants to do something with that land, he has no buffer zone there, on the mobile home
side.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-That's his access to his property, isn't it?
MR. LEON STEVES-Yes it is.
MR. NACE-How's that now?
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-That road is the only access he has to that property. I visited the site and that's
my impression of it.
MR. NACE-That's correct.
MR. STEVES-And we've got the buffer on both north and south of these properties. We can't do anything
about these because we don't own that.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-Right. In fact, this kind of guarantees ...
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Are you putting in that road or is the road already there?
MR. STEVES-No, the road is already there.
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-The road is already there?
MR. STEVES-Yes.
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Okay.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT-Okay, any other questions from anyone on the Board?
COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Jim, have you, has your office scaled this out to see if this conforms to the
provisions of our overlay zone?
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MR. MARTIN-Yes. That was done at the time before it went to the Planning
Board.
SUPERVISOR BRANDT -Okay, anybody else in the public that wants to comment on this? I'm going to
close the public hearing then.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
Executive Director, Mr. Martin lead the Town Board through the Full Environmental Assessment Form,
Part II: Impact on Land, Number 1, Will the proposed action result in a physical change to the project site?
Answer, YES, SMALL TO MODERATE; Number 2, Will there be an effect to any unique or unusual
land forms found on the site? Answer, NO; Impact on Water, Number 3, Will proposed action affect any
water body designated as protected? Answer, NO; Number 4, Will proposed action affect any non-
protected existing or new body of water? Answer, NO; Number 5, Will proposed action affect surface or
groundwater quality or quantity? Answer, NO; Number 6, Will proposed action alter drainage flow or
patterns, or surface water runoff? Answer, YES, but it's being addressed; Impact on Air, Number 7, Will
proposed action affect air quality? Answer, NO; Impact on Plants and Animals, Number 8, Will proposed
action affect any threatened or endangered species? Answer, NO; Impact on Agricultural Land Resources,
Number 10, Will the proposed action affect agricultural land resources? Answer, NO; Impact on Aesthetic
Resources, Number 11, Will the proposed action affect aesthetic resources? Answer, NO; Impact on
Historic and Archaeological Resources, Number 12, Will proposed action impact any site or structure or
historic, pre-historic or paleontological importance? Answer, NO; Impact on Open Space and Recreation,
Number 13, Will proposed action affect the quantity or quality of existing or future open spaces or
recreational opportunities? Answer, NO, they are providing an on site playground; Impact on
Transportation, Number 14, Will there be an effect to existing transportation systems? Answer, NO;
Impact on Energy, Number 15, Will proposed action affect the community's sources of fuel or energy
supply? Answer, NO; Noise and Odor Impacts, Number 16, Will there be objectionable odors, noise, or
vibration as a result of the proposed action? Answer, NO, applicant will limit hours of construction
activities to 7 a.m. to sunset; Impact on Public Health, Number 17, Will proposed action affect public
health and safety? Answer, NO; Impact on Growth and Character of Community or Neighborhood?
Answer, NO; Number 19, Is there, or is there likely to be, public controversy related to potential adverse
environmental impacts? Answer, NO.
RESOLUTION ADOPTING DETERMINATION OF NON-SIGNIFICANCE
REGARDING MOBILE HOME PARK APPLICATION OF MR. BARRY CONVERSE
RESOLUTION NO. 397,93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is considering the application for the
Converse Mobile Home Park on April Lane in the Town of Queensbury, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is duly qualified to act as lead agency
with respect to compliance with SEQRA which requires environmental review of certain actions
undertaken by local governments, and
WHEREAS, the proposed action may be a Type I action pursuant to the Rules and Regulations of
the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board after considering the action proposed herein, reviewing the
Environmental Assessment Form, reviewing the criteria contained in Section 617.11, and thoroughly
analyzing the said action with respect to potential environmental concerns, determines that the action will
not have a significant effect on the environment, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor is hereby authorized and directed to complete and execute
Part II of the said Environmental Assessment Form and to check the box thereon indicating that the
proposed action will not result in any significant adverse impacts, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that pursuant to Section 617.15, the Negative Declaration presented at this meeting
is hereby approved and the Town Attorney's Office is hereby authorized and directed to file the same in
accordance with the provisions of the general regulations of the Department of Environmental
Conservation.
Duly adopted this 12th day of July, 1993, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano,
Mr. Brandt
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Town Board held discussion regarding the resolution approving the mobile home park and Attorney Dusek
proposed the following changes: The first resolved, where it starts at the bottom of page 1 and goes up to
the top of page 2, the fourth line down you'll see a plan dated 3/16/93, that should be, and last revised,
7/2/93 by VanDusen and Steves, Surveyors, because that indicates the plan you're approving. Then
following that, you have a number of restrictions, 1,2,3,4 and 5 are already in, those are basics from the
book. What I picked up from the Board tonight is, you wanted to add the following restrictions which I'll
dictate for you:
6. The establishment of a fifty foot buffer left in it's natural treed state along the east along the
east edge of the park as shown on aforesaid map by VanDusen and Steves, the establishment of a six foot
high stockade fence directly behind mobile home lots on the east side to preserve the buffer area as shown
on the aforesaid map, the establishment of a playground area as shown on the aforesaid map, the
placement, construction or arrangement of drainage and grading as shown on the aforesaid map;
7. The adoption of regulations to be made applicable to all park residents by the developer and/or
applicant with no changes to be made in said rules and regulations presented to the Town Board on this
date unless the Town Board's consent is first obtained;
8. The only mobile homes that may be placed in the park will be single wide mobile homes no
greater than fourteen feet in width;
9. The maximum density for the park shall be as shown on the map dated 3/16/93 and last revised
7/2/93 by VanDusen and Steves Surveyors, with the understanding that the developer and applicant has
agreed to this maximum density offorty-eight mobile home lots; with the further understanding by the
applicant that no attempt will be made to secure zoning variances from this permit application;
10. No more than two mobile homes shall share a septic system;
11. Public utilities and roads shall be completely constructed in a time period of less than one year
from the date of approval of the application;
12. All park and site construction activities of any kind in nature consisting of a placement of
mobile homes and/or construction of roads and utilities, shall be accomplished between the hours of 7 a.m.
to sunset Monday through Saturdays, with no construction activities to occur on Sundays or after the hours
indicated, except in emergency situations;
13. That the developer meet within a week with the fire chief and the head of the Water
Department and determine if another fire hydrant is necessary and if they determine, those two people feel
it should be done, then they add another fire hydrant;
14. The application approval is further conditioned upon receipt of approval by the Health
Department of New York State;
15. That all roads in the park shall consist of a compacted stabilized gravel surfaced course;
Executive Director, Mr. Martin-Requested that a set of plans be given to the contractor.
After further discussion, the following resolution was proposed in order to correct the previous SEQRA
resolution:
RESOLUTION TO AMEND RESOLUTION NO. 397,93
RESOLUTION NO. 398, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHO MOVED FOR IT'S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt
Resolution to amend the previously adopted SEQRA resolution to indicate Question Number 1.
Impact on Land, Will the proposed action result in a physical change to the project site? Yes, construction
that will continue for more than one year or involve more than one phase of stage, small to moderate
impact.
Duly adopted this 12th day of July, 1993, by the following vote:
A YES: Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker,
Mr. Brandt
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION APPROVING MOBILE HOME PARK APPLICATION
RESOLUTION NO. 399,93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury has, heretofore, adopted certain local laws and/or
ordinances concerning the regulation of mobile homes, as more specifically set forth in Chapter 113
entitled, "Mobile Homes" and Chapter 179 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury entitled, "Zoning," and
WHEREAS, Mr. Barry Converse has made application for the establishment of the Converse
Mobile Home Park on April Lane in the Town of Queensbury, and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has made a written recommendation to the Town Board of the
Town of Queensbury, the same being in the form of a resolution dated May 18, 1993, and
WHEREAS, Notice that a Public Hearing would be held on June 21, 1993 was published in the
Post -Star and sent to property owners within 500 feet of the proposed Mobile Home Park, and
WHEREAS, in accordance with Chapter 113 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury, the Town
Board held a public hearing on the aforesaid application on June 21, 1993,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, after due consideration, hereby
approves the application for a Mobile Home Park to be located on April Lane in the Town of Queensbury,
and with said Mobile Home Park to be established and set up, and the lots to be of the size and
configuration set forth on a map and plan dated 03/16/93 and last revised 07/02/93 and drafted by
VanDusen & Steves Surveyors, and furnished to the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury as part of the
application, and said approval of the application to be further conditioned upon the following:
1. Payment of the fees required by § 113 -17 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury and
fees relating to and equal to the cost of the Town's Consulting Engineers review of the Mobile Home Park
plan;
2. Compliance with all site requirements set forth in §113-18, §113-19, and §113-20 of the
Code of the Town of Queensbury;
3. Agreement by the owners, agents, and operators of the Mobile Home Park to allow
access to the premises by the Director of Building & Code Enforcement, or other appropriate agents,
servants, employees, or officers as designated by the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, at
reasonable times for inspection for compliance purposes with the appropriate Codes of the Town of
Queensbury and Building Codes of the State of New York;
4. That the Mobile Home Park License shall be subject to annual renewal by the Town
Board, and if the Mobile Home Park has not been constructed in accordance with the approved plans,
specifications, and conditions set forth herein, or if a violation of Chapter 113 shall be found, or if any
unapproved changes shall have been taken place, the license shall not be renewed until the Mobile Home
Park has been brought into compliance;
5. Continued compliance with all local and state laws and regulations governing Mobile
Home Parks;
6. The establishment of a fifty foot buffer left in it's natural treed state along the east edge of
the park as shown on the aforesaid map by VanDusen & Steves, the establishment of a six foot high
stockade fence directly behind mobile home lots on the east side to preserve the buffer area as shown on the
aforesaid map, the establishment of a playground area as shown on the aforesaid map, the placement,
construction or arrangement of drainage and grading as shown on the aforesaid map;
7. The adoption of regulations to be made applicable to all park residents by the developer
and/or applicant with no changes to be made in said rules and regulations presented to the Town Board on
this date unless the Town Board's consent is first obtained;
8. The only mobile homes that may be placed in the park will be single wide mobile homes
no greater than fourteen feet in width;
9. The maximum density for the park shall be as shown on the map dated 03/16/93 and last
revised 07/02/93 by VanDusen & Steves Surveyors, with the understanding that the developer and
applicant has agreed to this maximum density offorty-eight mobile home lots; with the further
understanding by the applicant that no attempt will be made to secure zoning variances from this permit
application;
10. No more than two mobile homes shall share a septic system;
11. Public utilities and roads shall be completely constructed in a time period of less than one
year from the date of approval of the application;
12. All park and site construction activities of any kind in nature consisting of a placement of
mobile homes and/or construction of roads and utilities, shall be accomplished between the hours of 7 a.m.
to sunset Monday through Saturdays, with no construction activities to occur on Sundays or after the hours
indicated, except in emergency situations;
13. That the developer meet within a week with the fire chief and the head of the Water
Department and determine if another fire hydrant is necessary and if they determine, those two people feel
it should be done, then they add another fire hydrant;
14. The application approval is further conditioned upon receipt of approval by the Health
Department of New York State;
15. That all roads in the park shall consist of a compacted stabilized gravel surfaced course;
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that a certified copy of this resolution shall constitute the license by the Town of
Queensbury, and attached to such copy of this resolution shall be copies of Article 2 of §113 of the Code of
the Town of Queensbury.
Duly adopted this 12th day of July, 1993, by the following vote:
A YES: Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan,
Mr. Brandt
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTIONS
RESOLUTION APPROVING MINUTES
RESOLUTION NO. 400, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker
WHO MOVED FOR IT'S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves the Town Board
Minutes of June 7th, 10th, 22nd and 30th of 1993.
Duly adopted this 12th day of July, 1993, by the following vote:
A YES: Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz,
Mr. Brandt
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING INTERFUND ADVANCES
RESOLUTION NO. 401, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt
WHEREAS, pursuant to Section 9-A of the General Municipal Law of the State of New York, the
Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is authorized to temporarily advance moneys held in any fund to
any other fund,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby authorizes the temporary
advance of funds to the accounts or funds indicated, and in the amounts indicated, as set forth below:
FROM: TO: $ AMOUNT
40 - Queensbury Water Fund 910 - Landfill Fund $50,000.00
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor, as Chief Fiscal Officer, is hereby authorized and directed
to arrange for and accomplish the above-authorized transfers, and temporary advances, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor, as Chief Fiscal Officer, shall keep suitable records and
arrange for the repayment of the temporary advances as soon as possible, and the Town Supervisor shall
also determine the amount of interest, if any, to be paid, upon repayment.
Duly adopted this 12th day of July, 1993, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano
Mr. Brandt
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION REGARDING APPOINTMENT OF ENGINEER TO ASSIST IN
REVIEW OF ENVIRONMENTAL IMP ACT STATEMENT FOR PROPOSED
HUDSON POINTE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT
RESOLUTION NO. 402, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury has by previous resolution, required the
preparation of an Environmental Impact Statement for the proposed Hudson Pointe Planned Unit
Development, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury has also, instructed the Executive
Director to request proposals from certain engineering firms/individuals to assist the Town Board in the
review of the Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS), the Final Environmental Impact Statement
(FEIS), and assist in the preparation of a Statement of Findings pursuant to Part 617 of the Official New
York State Compilation of Codes and Regulations, and
WHEREAS, the Executive Director has received responses concerning his Request for Proposals
and has reviewed the same with the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby authorizes the retention of
the services of Morse Engineering, P.e., with the understanding that the services to be preformed shall be
generally consistent with the Request for Proposal previously mentioned and more particularly:
1. that timing is an important element in the SEQRA review, and the Town Board will want
to review the matter expeditiously;
2. that the professionals' fees will be billed on a time expended basis, per rates of the
proposal, and in any event, shall not exceed the sum of $14,630.00 without prior approval of the Town
Board and the Developer of the proposed Hudson Pointe Planned Unit Development, and that exceeding
this amount without Town Board and Developer approval will result in non-payment;
3. that the project will be overseen by the Executive Director, James M. Martin, and he will
be the contact person for the Town Board; and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the services of the professionals shall be paid for by the Developer of the
Hudson Pointe Planned Unit Development in an amount of $14,630.00 and shall be paid over to the Town
of Queensbury to be held in escrow in accordance with an Escrow Agreement to be entered into with the
Developer, which will provide that the Town may expend monies from the Escrow Account to pay for the
engineer's services once a month, and that no monies shall be paid for from the Escrow Account until such
time as the Developer or the Developer's attorney shall have had at least ten days to review the billing prior
to payment thereof, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor is hereby authorized to execute an Escrow Agreement
with the Developer consistent with the previous terms and provisions and in a form approved by the Town
Attorney.
Duly adopted this 12th day of July, 1993, by the following vote:
A YES: Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker,
Mr. Brandt
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
(Executive Director, Mr. Martin before the start of this meeting submitted copies of the Draft
Environmental Impact Statement for Husdon Pointe PUD to the Town Board members, Town Attorney and
Deputy Town Clerk) Mr. Martin reviewed with the Town Board the procedures and time schedule that are
involved following the receipt of this document.
Councilman Goetz referred to Mr. Laake, the Utilities Consultant and the letter he sent to the Town Board
asking for a workshop with the Town Board. Town Board held discussion and scheduled a workshop for
July 26, 1993 at 6:30 p.m., before the regular scheduled Town Board meeting.
DISCUSSION - SEWER HOOKUP WITH K-MART
Mr. Jim Connors with CT Male, representing the Zarembra Group-Noted, an engineer's report has been
submitted for the extension of the Queensbury Sewer District to serve the proposed K-Mart at the
intersection ofDix Avenue and Quaker Road. Also, a letter has been submitted to Paul Dusek with copies
to Mike Brandt, Jim Martin and Mike Shaw requesting that we be handled as an out of district user so that
we can expedite construction.
Supervisor Brandt -Your letter I shared with the Board. I need, for myself, I need the advice of our attorney
on this.
Attorney Dusek-In this particular case, my advice to the Board would be to attempt to set up the district in a
timely fashion for the applicant. The reason why I say that is that, you have a situation here where the
district, first of all the parent district is not a bonded district, it's all paid off, the QEDC district is there.
The new district that would be established would be an extension district which would be immediately
consolidated into the QEDC district and there would no bonding once again for that because the developer
would be paying that. Therefore, there's no need to go to State Audit and Control, so you don't lose on that
time lag where you might normally spend a few months waiting for that approval. The other thing is, if
you don't do an extension agreement, there becomes concerns about maintenance of that long pipe, other
people that may ultimately want to hook in, it leaves alot of questions up in the air. My recommendation
would be to attempt to create the district and if it falls short, perhaps a short interim agreement could be
entered into as an out of district user with the understanding however that, that would end as soon as the
district was finished off. But as I understand the time frames, I think there's a reasonable expectation that
everything could come right together for the developer because I think you're looking at a September,
October time period when you need that district in place. I don't think that's an umeasonable thing to get
accomplished, as long as the biggest item that has to be done right up front before anything can be done by
this Town Board, is the map, plan and report. Now, you mentioned you had that done, I have not yet seen
that. I'll be glad to review that and prepare the necessary resolutions for the Town Board. The other thing
that has to be done of course would be the SEQRA review which between the planning department and the
engineer, I think that could be worked out.
Mr. Connors-I've been authorized by the Zaremba Group to present to the Board that, if we could proceed
with the out of district user agreement, we would also be more than willing to entertain continuing with the
sewer district extension. We just don't want any delay, whatsoever, any unforseen delays and if we could
move forward with the out of district user agreement, so that we are assured that we will have service and
can start construction this fall, that we would guarantee the extension of the sewer district. We have
submitted that information to you and we would be glad to move forward at the same time.
Attorney Dusek-I think you can get your district in place. I'd rather recommend to the Board to do the
SEQRA review and get through as many parts of the creation of the district and then if necessary, enter into
the agreement at the last minute when it is necessary.
Supervisor Brandt-Are you satisfied at this point? What we're saying is, we're expecting our attorney to
prepare the necessary paperwork in time so that we can keep you on schedule. Is that acceptable Paul?
Attorney Dusek-Sure, I think, like I say, the first thing I need though is the map, plan and report to review
and make sure it complies with legal requirements and then we can move from there.
Supervisor Brandt-Mike, do you see any problem with what we're doing here?
Mr. Mike Shaw, Wastewater Superintendent-The only concern I had if it does come to a contract, a
contract period is that someone will have to be liable as to the maintenance of the line and the contract will
have to include that K-Mart will be liable ... Paul and I briefly discussed that. There will be a buy in fee ...
seventy-five cents per gallon. And basically we'll need the final plans of the actual sewer connection to lay
the lines ... currently now you're showing a map.
Mr. Connors-Yes, it's just a district extension with a description, a verbal description and cost estimate of
the sewer improvements.
Mr. Shaw-But no detail, right?
Mr. Connors-Correct, we're currently in the process, as I said, we've already determined that we can make
it through gravity, we anticipate having those plans completed within the week and ready for submittal
probably the beginning of next week.
Mr. Shaw-There is one other issue that I haven't brought forth yet, there's always been a problem with
pump stations, as the Board knows, is odor control. There maybe some way that you want to look into odor
control at that site. It's always been a problem in the past with pump stations.
Supervisor Brandt-Okay, does that handle it?
Mr. Connors-As long as we can move forward immediately if we find that there is some type of delay in
getting the sewer district approved.
Supervisor Brandt-I think the Board's willing to even hold special meetings if that's necessary to keep you
on schedule.
Mr. Connors-Okay, I appreciate your time.
ATTORNEY MATTERS
Attorney Dusek -Noted, a fax received today from one of the people that would like to dispose of C and D
and they would like to amend the contract that the Board had previously authorized. They wanted to add
an denmification clause that would require the Town of Queensbury to indenmify and hold harmless
disposer from any claims, damages, causes of action, liabilities, etcetera, arising from bodily injury,
including death, damage to property caused by mishandling of C and D waste, environmental impairment
or otherwise negligent or willful act or omission of the Town of Queensbury, it's agents, assigns, provided
that such claims, causes, actions, losses are not caused by disposers sole negligence. I would recommend
against modifying your agreement. I think your rate is good, I think the agreement obviously is working
because other people have signed it but it's your call, because your the Board.
The Town Board held discussion and agreed with Attorney Dusek's recommendation.
Attorney Dusek-The other matter is just a report to the Town Board. In the matter of the application of
John Salvador versus KatWeen Salvador against the State of New York, Mario Cuomo, New York State
Legislature, others including the Town of Queensbury and Michel R. Brandt, the court has rendered a
decision on this which I received while I was out, it looks like it came out on July 7th, dismissing the
complaint and deciding the matter in the favor of the State as well as the Town. This was a matter that was
down before the Albany Supreme Court. So, just to report to the Board that, that action has been dismissed
at this point.
Supervisor Brandt-That's the only piece oflitigation that's been brought against this administration, isn't it?
Attorney Dusek-Well, there's the Schultz action. Well that was really against Warren County, though.
Supervisor Brandt-We've avoided litigation, I think that's a major accomplishment.
Attorney Dusek-There hasn't been alot of litigation, you're right.
OPEN FORUM
Mary and John DeSantis who live on the corner of Peggy Ann and Lady Slipper spoke to the Town Board
regarding the placement of a fence on the back of their property.
Mrs. DeSantis-Noted, we brought this before the ZBA and were denied and yet there are many violations, I
sited fifty-six just within our area. We have a corner lot and the Town says that we have two front yards.
The ZBA has only that law to look at and they're right in enforcing that law but some how that law has got
to be changed so that people that are on corners, do have back yards.
Mr. DeSantis-Noted, a petition signed from fifteen different homes closest to us within five hundred feet
that would be most effected by this and they had no problem with it.
Councilman Caimano- What happened to the letter that we sent to the ZBA?
Executive Director, Mr. Martin-I questioned the Chairman, Ted Tumer about that and he will not entertain
putting this back on the agenda.
Mr. DeSantis-We're lead to believe at this point that we either have to change our application significantly
which is not acceptable to us because I think what we're asking for is more than reasonable.
Supervisor Brandt-I totally agree with you, I've looked at the site.
Mr. DeSantis-Our other option is to take the town to court.
Councilman Caimano-What are our options here?
Attorney Dusek-Under the law, there would appear to be, I'm assuming that what we have here is clearly
understood and I haven't reviewed your application, the ZBA minutes or anything else but assuming it has
been a denial by the ZBA based strictly on this issue of the fence and assuming that's the law and all the
facts are the way that we just talked about, there's basically three options. One, would be as you
mentioned, a significantly revised application which you could then go back before the ZBA. The second
would be to take the ZBA up on an article 78 proceeding which would be the court if you felt there was
grounds to challenge their decision. However, if you don't feel there's grounds, then that wouldn't be a very
good viable alternative because you may lose. The third option would be if the Town Board wanted to
entertain an amendment to the zoning laws, that though you have to be very careful about because first of
all, you have to make sure it's an amendment, you can't just make an amendment for one person, you have
to make an amendment that will apply to everybody and you would want to analyze that amendment as far
as language is concerned and whether there will be any adverse impact or whether it accomplishes
something that you want and in fact desire in town. Now, by virtue of the fact that there is apparently a
number of fences that may be in this type of situation, the Board may very well wish to consider whether
the ordinance should be amended. I would recommend that your Planning Department would have to take
a look at the situation and then the language of the statute and then determine if it would be appropriate to,
in some fashion, revise that so it would allow the type of thing that these folks are suggesting.
Mr. DeSantis-I'd like to add another point, of these fifty-six fences, most of them are on corners and alot of
these go around the corners. We don't know what these people did in putting their fences up. We don't
know if they applied for variances and got them, if they did, we don't see why we're being denied or if they
just put the fence up and weren't approached.
Supervisor Brandt-I don't know how to modify the ordinance but what they're asking for in my mind is
absolutely reasonable and it ought to be legal to do it. I don't know how we could accommodate it in the
ordinance but I certainly would love to sponsor an amendment that would give them what they're looking
for because I think it would work any where.
Councilman Tucker-I'll tell you one thing in the ordinance that is not economically feasible whatsoever and
that is three foot fence.
Attorney Dusek -You could take a look at those sections. I think the first step would be for your Planning
Department or whoever you feel is appropriate to go out there and take a look at the circumstances, take a
look at the ordinance as well as the decision of the ZBA and then develop language that addresses a
situation uniformally around town. And once you develop the language, then it would be a matter of
placing that into a form of a local law to amend your code. Before you can amend the code, you would
have to first of all go through a SEQRA process, notifying all the involved agencies because your affecting
everybody. You would have to get Warren County Planning approval, AP A and a public hearing. It's
really quite similar to your rezonings, the same type of process.
Councilman Goetz-I have seen the property and I do think iliat we have a lack of enforcement when it
comes to fences in the Town. I will not be involved in any discussions as a Town Board member about a
specific determination by the Zoning Board of Appeals. I was on the Zoning Board and I really feel
strongly about that and I do think that it's possible that we need to look at our fence ordinance.
Supervisor Brandt-I think we ought to look at the proportions of the lot, see if we can design a change in
the ordinance that would work because I think what they're asking for is very reasonable and it would be
reasonable any where in the town. Jim are you willing to assign someone?
Executive Director, Mr. Martin-Yes.
Supervisor Brandt-But understand if the Board takes on a change in the law, it's going to take quite a bit of
time to do this.
Mrs. DeSantis-The only thing with that, I want to make sure we're legally okay, we were also told that we
had, what thirty days to do anything?
Attorney Dusek-Probably they're talking about an appeal of the Zoning Board's decision, you have a
limited time in which to appeal to a higher court. I thought it was sixty now but you might want to double
check the statue on that. To protect yourself, find out when the decision was filed because that's the start of
the date and then just double check the statue, I think it did go to sixty, it used to be thirty and that's the
time period you have in which to appeal, this Board can't help you with that.
Councilman Tucker-I think what you better keep in mind, that it probably take you as long with an article
78, as it will for us to change it and it is costly.
Supervisor Brandt -You have the majority of this Board that agrees with you so all we've got to do is find
the language and get it moving.
Mrs. DeSantis-Will this help you, looking at some of these fences that are in existence?
Executive Director, Mr. Martin-I'd like to go around, if you would give me that list, I'll ride around and
look at some of them.
Supervisor Brandt-And your petition, I didn't bring it with me, you gave it to me and I thought I had it with
me but we'll put it in the formal record for the Board meeting tonight.
Mr. DeSantis-There's a fence right out here on the corner of Bay and Haviland, look at it on your way
home, it's closer than twenty foot and it's a six foot stockade fence, right across from Town Hall.
Councilman Tucker-You understand that we're starting the process to change it so hang in there.
Mr. DeSantis-Is there any shorter process?
Supervisor Brandt-We can't, we have to go by the laws, they're all State laws that we have to follow.
Councilman Tucker-And we're willing to do that. Thank you.
Mrs. DeSantis-Thanks for hearing us.
Mr. John Schreiner-Questioned Paul about where we stand on that road?
Attorney Dusek-Leon Steves was in my office today on the Dunham's Bay Road matter. He gave me the
actual maps drawn of the road itself showing what's up there right now. I indicated to Leon it was my
recollection that I thought he was going to put in a line showing where the proposed road and the parking
would go. And we discussed where that would go and he said he would have that generated for me within
a couple of days. I was planning on contacting you as soon as I receive that and set up a meeting with all
the folks involved, probably for late this week, early next week.
Mr. Bernard Rayhill-It comes to my attention that the State is purchasing land in the Adirondacks and other
areas. As a result of that decision to purchase land, they always include also infrastructure for
communities, parks and recreational facilities within that. And that is part of the environmental financing
for the purchase of park lands. Thanks to Mr. Carl DeSantis, we have fifty acres and I think it's a
wonderful thing that a person in this community gives fifty acres to the Town of Queensbury and you have
that available at the present time. I would like to ask the Board to be as cooperative as possible in trying to
work toward having a good park in, a nice family park in that property or work together with members of
the community and with the financing that can be provided by the State to provide ample recreational
facilities for children. Because, as I've written on numerous occasion, when communities develop they
usually don't think of children and ample recreational facilities. Thank God Mr. DeSantis did, and I hope
that you'll cooperate with his donation by developing that land.
Supervisor Brandt-Thank you. I guess you know we did reach Mr. Haggerman and we don't really know
what was in this last round of funding but we can look into it. I have already contacted the county and told
them that we have interest in doing something with that piece of land if we can work together with them
and they've expressed their willingness to cooperate. We haven't gone to committee or anything like that,
but we've started the discussions. I understand what you're asking and I believe we want to look into it
carefully and pursue it, if at all possible.
Mr. Tucker-Mr. DeSantis has donated that land to the county and Mr. Brandt has talked to the county. We
would like to obtain iffor a park for the Town of Queensbury, but we want to be able to lease the land so
that whatever we invest in it, we can protect the taxpayers. So that's where we are, we're trying to negotiate
a lease on the piece of property and then we'll go from there.
Mr. Rayhill-That's great, that sounds wonderful, but at the same time, if the State monies are available as a
result of the purchases that are coming down at the present time, this is a fantastic opportunity for the town
and also for the county.
Mr. John Salvador-Earlier Mike, you said something about we have a loss running at the landfill. A loss
compared to what?
Supervisor Brandt-We're losing a loss of income as compared to, the expenses versus the income. In other
words we have a net loss in the operation and it has to be subsidized by taxes.
Mr. Salvador-Wasn't that known last year, when you were preparing your budget? Wasn't that foreseeable
and where are you going to get the money?
Supervisor Brandt-From taxes and I believe it is part of the budget. We run at a net loss, we do not take in
sufficient funds to pay our costs. Half of that loss is paid by the city, half is ours.
Mr. Salvador-So, you're taking it from other accounts this year?
Supervisor Brandt-From the general fund this year.
Mr. Salvador-It won't be carried over until next year?
Supervisor Brandt-It can't.
Mr. Salvador-I'd just like to comment that this weekend, Saturday or Sunday, I don't recall which day but
that fly car passed our place five times and on no occasion did the ambulance follow it. You know what
I'm referring to?
Supervisor Brandt -Yes.
Mr. Salvador-Referred to discussions we've had up at the lake on some of the promotional events, both the
Sheriffs Department and the Department of Public Works have just got an awful lot of slop buried in their
budgets. They're spending enormous amounts of money to support these events and they just never come
for extra money and these are events that aren't even planned. We had a triatWon, that SheriffLamy
supplied forty deputies for six hours on a Sunday morning, all with cars. He's not asking for extra money
and that thing wasn't planned last year when he prepared his budget. Where is he getting the money? The
DPW, the same way. Now, we're paying through a contract I believe, for police protection services. It's
got to be in that contract that he's getting his money, so there's a little bit offat in there. Americade, the
same way. We, the taxpayers in the Town of Queensbury are subsidizing promoters in putting on these
events. I have asked and I haven't gotten very far, but I have asked the County Budget Officer for the
details of these two department's budgets. Fred Lamy said at one of the hearings that the Balloon Festival
cost his department twelve thousand dollars. Where's that coming from? Now, that's public money for a
private purpose and it shouldn't be allowed.
Councilman Tucker-I'd like to point out to you, John, seventy-five percent of our general fund in the town
is supported by sales tax and these events bring sales tax into the town.
Mr. Salvador-That doesn't allow you to circumvent the constitutional prohibition against the use of public
money for private purpose. The sales tax is meant for something else and if you don't need it for that, you
shouldn't be collected it.
Councilman Tucker-I don't believe that it has been determined that we are violating the law. Has it been
determined, Paul?
Attorney Dusek-Most importantly, it doesn't seem to me that this is a matter that involves the Town Board
or the town. If anything, Mr. Salvador, your complaint lies with Warren County.
Mr. Salvador-Oh no, I pay...
Attorney Dusek-But you're complaining about the governing body of Warren County.
Councilman Caimano-Nothing that you've said so far can be handled by us, only by the county.
Mr. Salvador-We enter into a contract with the sheriff.
Councilman Caimano- The contract is already there, it is a declining balance contract which comes to zero
very shortly.
Mr. Salvador-You shouldn't be spending anymore than you have to, to get the protection you think you
need. Your responsibility is protection.
Councilman Caimano-Pretty soon, it's going to be zero.
Mr. Salvador-You can't abdicate that.
Councilman Caimano-It's already done John, it's already by contract.
Mr. Salvador-You buy services from a sheriff. Right, Mike?
Supervisor Brandt-The contract is already written, we pay a certain amount, it's a fixed amount and it goes
down and we can't by ourselves change that contract, we would have to come to an agreement between the
county and ourselves to modify that contract. It's pretty hard for us to use these arguments to go in change
that contract.
Mr. Salvador-When is the contract up? When it does it expire?
Councilman Caimano-In three years, it's zero.
Mr. Salvador-You've obligated this Town for a period of time longer than one year in a contract?
Councilman Caimano- Yes, year by year.
Councilman Tucker-We haven't. I want to correct that. We did not. We are the Board that decided that we
ought it reduce it to zero.
Mr. Salvador-When you enter into this agreement, your obligating the taxpayers to make good on that
contract. The one responsibility you have, is to make sure that you get the goods and services you're
paying for and no more.
Councilman Tucker-It appears that we are.
Mr. Salvador-Well, okay, I'm just saying there's alot of slop in those budgets that are covering other towns,
other things, other people's affairs. A couple of months ago I asked about the basis for you to determine the
adequacy of the fire departments requests, their budget requests and Mr. Caimano indicated that he would
get some data.
Councilman Caimano-I got my first financial statement, Wednesday from Bay Ridge.
Councilman Tucker-I got them all today so they must be all done.
Supervisor Brandt-There's one missing I think.
Mr. Salvador-Let me re-state my question. These requests come in, what do you compare them with to
satisfy yourself that the price is right for the protection you want?
Councilman Caimano- When they come in, we'll start asking the questions.
Mr. Salvador-You indicated that there was some date available some place that would give you an idea of
how to make a judgement.
Councilman Caimano-I presume there was, I don't know that. I'm going to ask the questions when I get the
data?
Councilman Goetz-Are there any guide lines? I remember this discussion.
Mr. Salvador-That's all I'm asking for.
Councilman Caimano-I'm not going to even ask the questions of this state until I get all the financial, I have
no idea what questions to ask yet.
Councilman Goetz-So you're saying once we get all the reports, then you're going to be able to tell what the
questions are.
Councilman Caimano- That's right.
Councilman Goetz-We will have some guide line?
Councilman Caimano- There are no guide lines.
Councilman Goetz-I know, but I mean, it is a difficult subject.
Mr. Salvador-Wait, how do we know there aren't any?
Councilman Caimano-You know, I guess I resent sitting here like the second grade. We will have the
answers. You asked me to do something, I will get it done for you as soon as I have enough information to
ask the questions. Okay, that's the answer to your question, period.
Mr. Salvador-The subject of the Harris Bay Yacht Club and the sanitary disposal...?
Executive Director, Mr. Martin-I've got a meeting with Paul this Thursday.
Mr. Salvador-I got a reply from Frank Daigle that the test data that Danny Olson took should be available
in the county records. They're available for the asking. Mike, I understand that the county is entertaining
the thought of a new local support agreement with the towns. I know you decided not to engage in the first
one. I don't know what the second one will look like, you might be interested. The subject of the Warren
Washington County Economic Development Corporation, are we still working, thinking, entertaining?
Attorney Dusek-Yes, all of the above.
Mr. Salvador-I asked Paul a couple of weeks ago, if it was safe to assume that he wasn't doing anything
about this and he said, yes, I won't address that until I get back from vacation.
Attorney Dusek-I got back today.
Mr. Salvador-Okay. I read in the newspaper about the Lake George Park Commission Wastewater
Agreement, where do we stand with that?
Supervisor Brandt-We're waiting to hear from them. They had a meeting and I have had no official
correspondence about it, just what I read in the newspaper also.
OPEN FORUM CLOSED
Councilman Caimano-Did I understand that you are not going to partake in the discussion of this fence? Is
that what you said?
Councilman Goetz-No. No, what I said was, I wasn't going to talk about that specific determination by the
Zoning Board. But I certainly, there were two points. One, that I do think there's a lack of enforcement of
the fence situation and that we probably should look at an amendment.
Supervisor Brandt-I got a letter from DEC saying that they approved the drawings as submitted by Morse
Engineering for the grading for our landfill. I called them up and asked if that meant we could start closure
and they said no, that's only part of the process. And they've got a bunch of these applications in front of
them but they're going to try to see if they can finish the approval of the closure plan within a month,
because I want to still try to go to bid on that and see if we can get started on the first cell this year. So,
we're pushing it along and we're looking into the temperature requirements on working with the material
that we're going to seal with and all that and we'll be back to you with some more information.
DISCUSSION / AUDIT OF BILLS
Councilman Monahan-I'm just looking at one here and I just want to comment. I went to the fireworks and
I thought Mike Young did a very good job, we got our monies worth.
Councilman Caimano- I have a general comment. I thought we discussed the fact that we were try to
eliminate late PO's and we all understood late PO's that are ten or fourteen dollars when something, but in
going through here, every department has some, what I would consider egregious late PO's. I mean late
PO's of three or four or five hundred dollars.
Supervisor Brandt -Let's just tell people that we will not buy with late PO's and set that policy. I spoke to
these people, all of them about this and they're ignoring us.
Town Board held discussion and agreed to set a policy of no more late PO's, that they will not pay them.
Agreed that a memo be sent to EJ Christensen and all department heads, stating the Town Board's decision,
that they will not honor PO's in the future and it's effective immediately.
RESOLUTION APPROVING AUDIT OF BILLS
RESOLUTION NO. 403, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt
WHO MOVED FOR IT'S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz
RESOLVED, that the Audit of Bills appearing on Abstract
July 12th, 1993, numbering 93-237700 through 93-258700 and totalling $275,919.74, be and hereby is
approved.
Duly adopted this 12th day of July, 1993, by the following vote:
A YES: Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan,
Mr. Brandt
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAIN: Mr. Caimano, Vendor #000127, GF Post Star
Mrs. Monahan, Vendor #000453, Community Workshop
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 404, 93
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHO MOVED FOR IT'S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Regular
Session and enters Executive Session to discuss a Personnel Matter.
Duly adopted this 12th day of July, 1993, by the following vote:
A YES: Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz,
Mr. Brandt
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
No further action was taken.
On motion, the meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
DARLEEN M. DOUGHER
TOWN CLERK
TOWN OF QUEENSBURY