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1993-08-16 TOWN BOARD MEETING AUGUST 16,1993 7:00 p.m. MTG. #60 RES. 453-462 TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT Supervisor Michel Brandt Councilman Betty Monahan Councilman Susan Goetz Councilman Pliney Tucker PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY SUPERVISOR MICHEL BRANDT PUBLIC HEARING ON ESTABLISHMENT OF ROUTE 9 EXTENSION NO.1 CENTRAL QUEENSBURY QUAKER ROAD SEWER DISTRICT NOTICE SHOWN Supervisor Brandt -We start off with a public hearing on an extension of the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District, I am opening that public hearing and Mike would you and Paul Dusek to lead us through it because you guys designed it. Mr. Mike Shaw-Director of Waste Water-Ok, this public hearing is for an extension to the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District. The Extension is to be up Route 9 would service properties which are now Ames, Queensbury Dinner the proposed Walmart and Long John Silver, Pizza Hut. This proposed extension would be paid for completely by the developer which is Walmart. Supervisor Brandt -You want to tell us anything about the structure of it, of any importance at this point to the public. Attorney Dusek-I think it would be and for the Board's consideration as well I am sure you have read the resolution over I will just outline it briefly. There basically two steps here this evening, one is the SEQRA review and the second one is the establishment of the district. Your SEQRA review on the District is like any other SEQRA review you do for road acceptances or project of any nature, this one is somewhat unusual in that the project itself has already undergone a SEQRA review by the Planning Board when they would have done their site plan review. The resolution that is before you actually establishing the district seeks to establish a district which is an extension of the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District. The extension however, although it is an extension is being as Mike indicated constructed at no cost to the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District and after it is constructed the pipes and everything else will be turned over to the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District and most importantly the sewer line itself and the properties, there are three parcel numbers here that are being included will become part of the Queensbury Consolidated District they will be consolidated immediately upon creation of the district which means they will pay all of the same charges as everybody else in the district is paying for capital charges for 0 & M which the theory of it of course goes the more people sharing those charges hopefully the lower those charges will be. So, that is what this extension seeks to undertake and as I mentioned it is not costing the Town anything to extend the theory is the developer gets the benefit but then so does the Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District. Supervisor Brandt-This is open for public comment is there anyone here that wishes to speak on this? Questions from the Board? Councilman Tucker-Just the one I asked last week? Mike, this pipe is big enough to take care of Passarelli's Mall. Mr. Shaw-The mall up there, I haven't really got any water usage records from or engineering projections of water usage for his mall as yet, but I assume it will be. There are 8" mains currently there now, I believe Mr. Passarelli where you are talking about the old Mt. Royal Motel. Councilman Tucker-Yea. Mr. Shaw-Ok, I think that would be the last parcel that would be fed gravity from that portion, I would say off the top of my head, yes, but I would have to see what kind of uses he is talking first. Supervisor Brandt-But, the extension is an extension of the same size pipe as what we have now, correct. Mr. Shaw-That is correct. Supervisor Brandt-We are not restricting. Mr. Shaw-We are not restricting, we are extending 8" sanitary sewer exactly the size it is now, on Route 9. Councilman Tucker-I know that, that mall is in the works as far as being built and just want to make sure that we aren't going to put this in and then got to dig it up again in six months or a year. Mr. Shaw-Currently what I seen across my desk on that is they have somewhat of a proposed on site sewering depending on what happens with the extension, from the way I understand it. Councilman Monahan-Mike what is the last property presently served by the Quaker District in that area. Mr. Shaw-The last property would be Mr. B's Best. Supervisor Brandt-Paul? Attorney Dusek - I just might add a couple of more things, as the Board will note there are a variety of findings that you have to make in connection with the establishment of this district and if you find everything as indicated you could go ahead and approve the district. Also, if you set up the district in the fashion that is set forth here what it also means that any future extensions would be done the same way, they would be created immediately consolidated as long as they were an extension. Which means you do not have to go through the 206A part of it again it will be automatic in the future. Supervisor Brandt-Any other? Councilman Monahan-Mike, how is this district being drawn, is it being drawn straight or is it going around certain properties or what, I do not know if I have seen a map of it. Mr. Shaw-Yes, currently it is, I am surprised there is not a map up here, but I have map, but currently the district border is going to be drawn around certain parcels. It will be drawn around the pipe lines first of all that feeds, that would feed that. Ok you have maps. Councilman Monahan-I am sorry I left my map home. Mr. Shaw-You go by a couple parcels and then you will the Long John Silver, Pizza Hut will be drawn in ok, on its borders and then it will continue up through going by another parcel and then the Walmart, Ames Plaza will be drawn in the district. Councilman Monahan-So the lands that you have gone around will not be subject to any charges, advelorum or anything else? Mr. Shaw-That is correct until the point where if they want to come into the district as Paul says they will have to go through the same process to connect. Attorney Dusek-I might note Betty, if you will note from the maps and stuff, this district was designed such that only the parcels that are desirous of sewer are enclosed in the district. So, you actually have a somewhat unusual case where you have the parent district then you have a separation of properties and then you have the other part of the district under law I have researched that out that is acceptable you can have, they do not have to be contiguous in otherwords and they are connected by the pipe which they will have to secure easements for. But those parcels over which the pipe crosses will not be in the sewer district nor will they be taxed. Councilman Monahan-Do you put laterals in at this time in case they ever want to join in the future or their in there now? Attorney Dusek-Well, if you require that it seems to me that, that would be up to the develop whether or not he would want to put that in, if he doesn't want to put that in I think the Town would have to pay the developer to have them put in. Mr. Shaw-Currently, for your own information Betty, the developer is putting laterals in for those parcels that now are occupied on that side of the road. Originally there was some discussion about putting laterals across the road and I told them it was my opinion that it was unnecessary at this time for the main reason is to go across Route 9 you are talking about a boring which is going to be $20,000 plus and I think one six inch lateral would not surface. Councilman Monahan-And this price that I am looking at here does that include their buy in to proportionate share of the expenses of Queensbury, Quaker Road Sewer District? Attorney Dusek-I got this from Mike, I will have to defer to Mike O'Connor it is a $90,000 figure, did that include the buy in Mike? Attorney O'Connor-Yes. For the purpose of your records I am Michael O'Connor from the Law Firm of Little and O'Connor, I am representing the developer. The $90,000 figure did include actual construction cost and the one time fee that we were told will be negotiated with the City of Glens Falls. Councilman Monahan-And their buy in also to the Town of Queensbury for the pipes already in place a percentage charge? Attorney Dusek-No, and the rational behind that is, that the developer is putting in pipes that will ultimately benefit the Town at no cost to the Town and they will be coming right into the total cost of the sewer district and since it is so young we have not treated it like we treated the water districts. The developer is going to share all the capital costs, as you know the bonds right now, I think they were twenty year bonds and you probably have like 18-19 years to go on them so he is jumping right in with everybody else, so that will be his contribution in essence between the pipes and the fact that he is jumping in on the capital charges. Supervisor Brandt-Any other questions, any other comments? Attorney O'Connor-1 would make one other comment on behalf of the developer. Connection to the sewer is a necessity for this project to go forward. I want the Board to be aware of that. Supervisor Brandt-Ok. Anyone else? I am going to close the public hearing. Thank you. There are resolutions that we prepared on this matter. Would you take us through them Paul? Attorney Dusek-The first resolution the Board would have to consider would be the standard SEQRA Resolution to decide whether or not you should negative or positive dec this project. I think Mr. Martin is going to help you thorough the SEQRA process as he usually does. Supervisor Brandt-We have certainly been through this project. Attorney Dusek -You just have to answer the questions on the back of the ... Mr. James Martin-Executive Director-Is someone going to sign part I Mike, do you have a signed copy of part I? Attorney O'Connor-As I understand it that would be signed by the Town Supervisor. Executive Director-Part I, ok. Attorney O'Connor-Part I because this is actually a sewer extension, I have got. Executive Director Martin-Who actually prepared Part I? Attorney O'Connor-1 prepared it. I will sign it if you want and I can have the engineers, Flint can sign it is that is a necessity. Executive Director Martin- It really should be supplied or signed by someone by the applicant sponsor. Attorney O'Connor-Alright we can have it signed, I will have your signatures tomorrow morning.. Executive Director Martin-Ok. Attorney O'Connor-Do you have Part II over there? Executive Director Martin-Yes. Ok. IMP ACT ON LAND Will the proposed action result in a physical change to the project site? Councilman Tucker-Yes. Supervisor Brandt -Yes, very insignificant you know. Councilman Goetz-I should say that I am abstaining on anything to do with this because I have a possible financial interest in adjoining property. Executive Director Martin-I do not know if you read through the examples I do not know where anything is really tripped here. Construction is not going to be any longer than a year. I do not see where anything is tripped in the example to warrant a small to moderate impact. Attorney Dusek-Keep in mind you are talking about the Sewer and not the project itself. The store project has already been reviewed under SEQRA. Supervisor Brandt-We have been through this with the project. Executive Director Martin-That is what I mean I do not see where even you have a small to moderate impact. Is the consensus No? Councilman Monahan-The only impact is digging the ditch. Executive Director Martin-Yea. Ok. No then. Supervisor Brandt-No. Executive Director Martin-Will there be an effect to any unique or unusual land forms found on the site? Councilman Tucker-No Supervisor Brandt-No Executive Director Martin-No. IMP ACT ON WATER Will proposed action affect any water body designated as protected? Councilman Tucker-No Executive Director Martin-No. Will proposed action affect any non-protected existing or new body of water? Councilman Tucker-No Supervisor Brandt-No Executive Director Martin-Will proposed action affect surface or ground water quality or quantity? Councilman Tucker-No Supervisor Brandt-No Executive Director Martin-Will propose action alter drainage flow or patterns, or surface water runoff? Supervisor Brandt-No Executive Director Martin-IMP ACT ON AIR Will proposed action affect air quality? Councilman Tucker-No Supervisor Brandt-No Executive Director Martin-IMP ACT ON PLANTS AND ANIMALS Will proposed Action affect any threatened or endangered species? Supervisor Brandt-No Councilman Tucker-No Executive Director Martin-Will Proposed Action substantially affect non-threatened or non-endangered species? Councilman Tucker-No Supervisor Brandt-No Executive Director Martin-IMP ACT ON AGRICULTURAL LAND RESOURCES Action affect agricultural land resources? Will proposed Councilman Tucker-No Supervisor Brandt-No Executive Director Martin-IMP ACT ON AESTHETIC RESOURCES Will proposed action affect aesthetic resources? Councilman Tucker-No Supervisor Brandt-No Executive Director Martin-IMP ACT ON HISTORIC AND ARCHAEOLOGICAL RESOURCES Will proposed action impact any site or structure of historic, prehistoric or paleontological importance? Councilman Tucker-No Supervisor Brandt-No Executive Director Martin-IMPACT ON OPEN SPACE AND RECREATION Will proposed action affect the quantity or quality or existing or future open spaces or recreational opportunities? Supervisor Brandt-No Councilman Tucker-NO Executive Director Martin-IMPACT ON TRANSPORTATION Will there be an effect to existing transportation systems? Councilman Tucker-No Supervisor Brandt-No Executive Director Martin-IMP ACT ON ENERGY Will proposed action affect the community's sources of fuel or energy supply? Councilman Tucker-No Supervisor Brandt-No Executive Director Martin-NOISE AND ODOR IMP ACTS Will there be objectionable odors, noise, or vibration as a result of the Proposed Action? Councilman Tucker-No Supervisor Brandt-Not really, no. Executive Director Martin-IMP ACT ON PUBLIC HEALTH Will Proposed Action affect public health and safety? Supervisor Brandt -Only to the positive Councilman Tucker-Yea. Executive Director Martin-IMP ACT ON GROWTH AND CHARACTER OF COMMUNITY OR NEIGHBORHOOD Will proposed action affect the character of the existing community? Councilman Tucker-No Supervisor Brandt-No Executive Director Martin-Nineteen Is there or is there likely to be public controversy related to the potential adverse environmental impacts? Councilman Tucker-No Supervisor Brandt-I do not think so. Executive Director Martin-That is it. Attorney Dusek-If that met with the Board's approval that resolution can be entertained. RESOLUTION ADOPTING DETERMINATION OF NON-SIGNIFICANCE REGARDING THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE ROUTE 9 EXTENSION NO 1 TO THE CENTRAL QUEENSBURY QUAKER ROAD SEWER DISTRICT RESOLUTION NO.: 453, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is considering the action of adopting a resolution establishing an extension to the existing Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District, to be known as the Route 9 Sewer Extension No.1, and WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is duly qualified to act as lead agency with respect to compliance with the State Environmental Quality Review Act (SEQRA) which requires environmental review of certain actions undertaken by local governments, and WHEREAS, the proposed action is an unlisted action pursuant to the rules and regulations of SEQRA, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, after considering the action proposed herein, reviewing the Environmental Assessment Form, reviewing the criteria contained in Section 617.11, and thoroughly analyzing the said action with respect to potential environmental concerns, determines that the action will not have a significant effect on the environment, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor is hereby authorized and directed to complete and execute the said Environmental Assessment Form and to check the box thereon indicating that the proposed action will not result in any significant adverse impacts, and complete such other information as may be necessary to indicate such, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that pursuant to Section 617.15, the Negative Declaration presented at this meeting is hereby approved and the Town Supervisor is hereby authorized and directed to file the same in accordance with the provisions of the general regulations of the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation. Duly adopted this 16th day of August, 1993, by the following vote: AYES Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brandt NOES None ABSENT: Mr. Caimano ABSTAIN: Mrs. Goetz RESOLUTION APPROVING THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE ROUTE 9 EXTENSION NO. 1 TO THE CENTRAL QUEENSBURY QUAKER ROAD SEWER DISTRICT RESOLUTION NO 454, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is desirous of establishing an extension to the existing Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District, to be known as the Route 9 Sewer Extension No.1, and WHEREAS, a Map, Plan and Report has been prepared regarding the said proposed extension to the existing Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District, such extension to service an area to the north of the existing district and on the westerly side of Route 9, such area consisting of those parcels or lots being identified as having tax map numbers 71-1-9, 71-1-03 and 71-1-05, with the boundaries of the proposed extension being more fully set forth herein and in the Map, Plan and Report, and WHEREAS, the Map, Plan and Report has been filed in the Town Clerk's Office in the Town of Queensbury and is available for public inspection, and WHEREAS, the Map, Plan and Report was prepared by Flint, Allen, White and Radley, engineers licensed by the State of New York, and WHEREAS, said Map, Plan and Report shows the boundaries of the proposed extension to the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District and a general plan of the proposed sewer system showing 1,880 lineal feet of extension of sewer main with necessary manholes, valveing, and laterals, if any, with it also being set forth further that the sewage disposal plant is proposed to be the City of Glens Falls Sewage Disposal Plant, to be used in accordance with the terms and provisions of an Agreement and the transmission mains of the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District shall also be used to transport the sewage from the said extension to the City Plant, and WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury desires to establish the said proposed sewer extension pursuant to Town Law, Article 12A, and consolidate the same with the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District pursuant to Town Law, ~206A, and WHEREAS, the said Town Board has considered the establishment of said extension in accordance with the provisions of the State Environmental Quality Review Act and has adopted a negative declaration concerning environmental impacts, NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS RESOLVED, that it is the determination of the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, that: 1. notice of said public hearing was published and posted as required by law and is otherwise sufficient; 2. it is in the public interest to establish, authorize, and approve the Route 9 Extension No. 1 to the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District, as the same has been described in the map, plan and report on file with the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury and as more specifically described herein; 3. all property and property owners within said extension are benefitted thereby; 4. all property and property owners benefitted are included within the limits of said extension; 5. pursuant to ~206a of the Town Law of the State of New York, it is in the public interest to assess all expenses of the district, including all extensions heretofore or hereafter established as a charge against the entire area of the district as extended and it is in the public interest to extend the district only if all expenses of the district shall be assessed against the entire district as extended, and IT IS FURTHER, RESOLVED, that: 1. The Route 9 Extension NO.1 to the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District be and the same is hereby authorized, approved and established in accordance with the boundaries and descriptions set forth herein and in the previously described map, plan and report, and construction of the improvement may proceed and service provided and subject to the following; a. of Health; the obtaining of any necessary permits or approvals from the New York State Department b. the obtaining of any necessary permits or approvals from the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation; c. the execution of an agreement between the Developer and/or Owner of properties to be served by the extension and the Town, which agreement will provide that the Developer and/or Owner will pay all costs of construction of the extension, provide for the escrow of funds for such construction, provide for certain specifications of construction, and contain such other provisions as may be deemed appropriate by the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury; d. a permissive referendum in the manner provided in Article 7 of the Town Law of the State of New York; e. the adoption of a final Order by the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury; 2. The boundaries of the Route 9 Extension NO.1 to the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District are as follows: All that certain piece or parcel of land situate, lying and being in the Town of Queensbury, County of Warren and the State of New York, more particularly bounded and described as follows; BEGINNING at a point in the westerly bounds of New York State Highway Route 9 at the northeast corner of the lands conveyed to Herbert G. Sheinberg by deed dated June 22, 1977 and recorded in book 606 of deeds at page 594 being also the southeast corner of the lands conveyed to George W. Goetz and John R. Goetz by deed dated March 30, 1983 and recorded in book 652 of deeds at page 1010; running thence southerly along said bounds of Route 9 the following two courses and distances: (1) South 09 degrees, 49 minutes and 57 seconds East, a distance of 164.16 feet; (2) South 12 degrees, 58 minutes and 27 seconds East, a distance of 26.43 feet to the northeast corner of the lands of Mary R. Bodenweiser; running thence around the land of said Sheinberg the following five courses and distances: (1) North 86 degrees, 41 minutes and 57 seconds West, a distance of 139.77 feet; (2) North 14 degrees, 39 minutes and 57 seconds West, a distance of 4.81 feet; (3) North 88 degrees, 14 minutes and 17 seconds West, a distance of 172.67 feet; (4) North 06 degrees, 17 minutes and 03 seconds East, a distance of 195.74 feet; (5) South 84 degrees, 26 minutes and 56 seconds East, a distance of 259.16 feet to the point and place of beginning, Bearings given in the above description refer to the magnetic meridian as of 1966. and All that certain piece or parcel of land situate, lying and being in the Town of Queensbury, County of Warren and the State of New York, more particularly bounded and described as follows: BEGINNING at the northeast corner of the lands conveyed to George W. Goetz and John R. Goetz by deed dated March 30, 1983 and recorded in book 652 of deeds at page 1010 at the southeast corner of the lands of National Realty and Development Corporation; thence running along the common line between said lands of Goetz and said National Realty & Development Corporation the following three courses and distances: (1) North 83 degrees, 39 minutes and 56 seconds West, a distance of 243.25 feet; (2) South 06 degrees, 10 minutes and 00 seconds West, a distance of 199.82 feet; (3) South 06 degrees, 11 minutes and 00 seconds West, a distance of 14.59 feet; thence running around said lands of National Realty & Development Corporation, the following eight courses and distances: (1) North 84 degrees, 42 minutes and 00 seconds West, a distance of 219.84 feet; (2) North 85 degrees, 19 minutes and 00 seconds West, a distance of 107.88 feet; (3) North 84 degrees, 19 minutes and 00 seconds West, a distance of 99.59 feet; (4) North 84 degrees, 45 minutes and 00 seconds West, a distance of234.60 feet; (5) North 05 degrees, 22 minutes and 00 seconds East, a distance of 967.48 feet to Weeks Road; (6) South 84 degrees, 23 minutes and 00 seconds East, a distance of 537.64 feet along said Weeks Road; (7) South 03 degrees, 55 minutes and 00 seconds West, a distance of 150.48 feet; (8) South 83 degrees, 10 minutes and 30 seconds East, a distance of 366.09 feet to Route 9 at the southeast corner of the lands of Ling; thence running along said Route 9 the following two courses and distances: (1) South 07 degrees, 20 minutes and 43 seconds West, a distance of 468.57 feet; (2) South 06 degrees, 47 minutes and 45 seconds West, a distance of 124.94 feet to the point and place of beginning. Bearings given in the above description refer to the magnetic meridian as of February 1966. 3. The improvements to be included and made a part of the extension shall consist of the purchase and installation of 1,880+/-lineal feet of extension of sewer main with necessary manholes, valveing, and laterals, if any, as more specifically set forth in the aforedescribed Map, Plan and Report prepared by Flint, Allen, White and Radley and the cost shall also include a payment of the appropriate charge due the City of Glens Falls at the time of the initial hook-up; 4. All proposed construction shall be installed and paid for by the developer (including the cost payable to the City at the time of initial hook -up) and shall be constructed and installed in full accordance with the Town of Queensbury's specifications, ordinances or local laws, and any State laws or regulations, and in accordance with approved plans and specifications, and under competent engineering supervision; 5. The maximum amount to be expended for said improvement will not be greater than $90,000.00, said improvement cost to be paid by the developer and at no cost to the Town of Queensbury, the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District, or the proposed extension; The areas or properties a part of the extension, however, will be subject to the same cost for operation, maintenance and capital improvements as in the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District; 6. The method of apportioning costs is such that the Developer and/or Owner of the property which the extension will service, will pay the cost for engineering, installation of the sewer pipe, and necessary appurtenances and the initial capital charge payable to the City of Glens Falls for use of its sewage treatment plant. The extension will thereafter be consolidated with the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District and properties therein will be assessed taxes and/or pay user fees in the same manner and in the same amounts as similar properties are assessed or billed in the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District; 7. There will be no financing of the construction or installation cost for the proposed sewer extension and no amount shall be paid therefor by the extension, the Town of Queensbury or the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District, the developer being responsible for the same, as well as the charge payable to the City at the time of the initial connection of the sewer district; 8. In accordance with Town Law, Section 206A, all expenses of the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District, including all extensions included heretofore or hereafter established, shall be a charge against the entire area of the district as extended; 9. Expenses occasioned after the creation of the extension shall be assessed, levied, and/or collected from the several lots and parcels of land within the extension on the same basis as the assessments, levies, and/or collections are made in the Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District and such assessments shall be made on a benefit basis and/or user charge basis; 10. The Map, Plan and Report describing the improvements and area involved is on file with the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury and available for public inspection; and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that this resolution is subject to a permissive referendum in the manner provided the provisions of Article 7 and Article 12-A of the Town Law of the State of New York and the Town Clerk is hereby authorized and directed to file, post, and publish such notice of this Resolution as may be required by law. Duly adopted this 16th day of August, 1993, by the following vote: AYES : Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Brandt NOES None ABSENT : Mr. Caimano ABSTAIN: Mrs. Goetz Discussion held before vote: Supervisor Brandt -Paul you have prepared this and it is just the written description of what the map shows and what we have been discussing, right? Attorney Dusek-Right and then you have also got to make determinations though of the notice of public hearing if that wa published and I guess Darleen did you have that? Town Clerk Darleen Dougher-Yes. Attorney Dusek-Recorded of record, you also have to make a determination as to whether its in the public interest to establish and authorize this district extension, you also make a determination as to whether all property and property owners within the extension are benefitted and that all property and property owners benefitted are included. Finally, also are making a determination as to whether pursuant to 206A you should be doing this in terms of extending the district and immediately consolidating knowing that all other extensions would be immediately consolidated in a similar fashion once you adopt this. Then the second part of the resolved clause actually deals with the sewer district itself, the boundaries the mechanics of it all which you have been reviewing in terms of a map, plan and report the amounts, there will be no financing on the part of the Central Queensbury Quaker Road District the reference to the map, plan and report. There is also a importantly a reference to an agreement that has to yet be entered into between the Town and the Developer concerning payment an escrow of funds for the district so that we are sure that, that is in place. This resolution will be subject to a(30) thirty day referendum time period which means it has to be published in the paper and then we wait thirty days to see if there are any petitions filed against it. After that time the Board would then entertain a very similar resolution only it would be called a final order establishing the district. Before the final order is established it is my recommendation that the Town have in place with the developer the agreement concerning the escrow of funds and that, it would be my recommendation that you do not authorize the actual, the final order of establishment until you have that agreement. This resolution will kick off the initial (30) thirty day time frame and like I said later you will go another resolution to finally authorize it. Councilman Tucker-What did we, did we agree on cash for the escrow? Attorney Dusek-Well you escrow agreement the one that you have approved in the past as well as the one that I have also sent to you over the weekend provides for an up front cash escrow to pay for the funds that kept by the town drawn downs can occur as construction goes but the Town maintains the fund of money. Supervisor Brandt-That is a full and accurate description of this. RESOLUTIONS Resolution to set public hearing on proposed amendment to the Sign Ordinance RESOLUTION NO. 455, 93 Discussion held-it was decided to set the date on the 30th of August... Councilman Goetz-I will offer the resolution Councilman Monahan-I will seconded it. Councilman Goetz-We had a meeting of the sign committee and it addresses temporary signs situations in the town primarily and this is just setting the public hearing so I do not think we have to go into it in great description, do we? One of our problems has been lack of enforcement or inability to enforce temporary signs in the Town and the existing sign ordinance has quite a few loop holes in it and so this is just a matter of tightening up a lot of this verbiage. We will be going into it more detail. Supervisor Brandt -You have had some people from the public from government and from the sign.. Executive Director Martin-The sign committee is made up of two representatives of the Town Board, myself, a representative of the Zoning Board, a representative of the Planning Board and two members of the general public who are considerably involved with the sign contracting and building signs. Supervisor Brandt-This will be published and people can come and talk to us. Councilman Goetz-What we are trying to do is instead of making proposed changes to the whole ordinance and presenting it all at once to take the things that are causing the Town the most trouble and deal with those first. I think did the Zoning Board present the list of priorities? Executive Director Martin-Every member came with a list of priorities and it was agreed upon at our first meeting to know what that would be. Councilman Monahan-I have a couple of questions, I was not there the night this was put together. The only types of temporary signs allowed is temporary wall signs. Executive Director Martin-Correct. Councilman Monahan-What about political signs, campaign signs? What about signs for church suppers etc. bazaars, the Senior bazaar right here? Councilman Tucker-Political signs are thirty days anyway. Councilman Monahan-Yea, but they are not allowed, types of temporary signs allowed the only kinds of signs allowed are temporary wall signs, they have got to be placed on a wall the way I read this. Executive Director Martin-That's correct. Councilman Tucker-You are going to have to change that I have not got walls. Supervisor Brandt - I have got a few signs of my own I have a mind to bring out again. Executive Director Martin-The primary driving force behind this was the number of complaints that we have been receiving regarding some of the temporary free standing signs around town most notably on Route 9. Councilman Monahan-And I agree with you Jim, and I think there are some terrible problems there but I think we are also creating some more problems there and we ought to really look at those right up front, so maybe creating some more problems there and we ought to really look at those right up front. Paul, I asked a question while you were out of the room. Types of temporary signs allowed, temporary wall signs and I said what about political advertising, I do not think you want those plastered all over walls in the first place and I do not know how you could get them on walls that are not your own walls and secondly what about church bazaars, suppers our Senior bazaar that is going to take place the end of August, right here, that will take place before this public hearing on this, but every year. Attorney Dusek-As far as the political goes, aren't they treated separately under the ordinance? Councilman Goetz-They are in a separate section. Councilman Monahan-I do not know, that is why I want to clarify this before we get too far. Attorney Dusek-My recollection was that this was not changing... Unknown-Betty you might be stepping on constitutional rights...freedom of expression. Councilman Monahan-I am asking the question. Supervisor Brandt -As a matter of fact that is a part of a sign ordinance you, it has to meet certain constitutional tests and I think the answer is it is a different section of the law but I do not know it. Attorney Dusek-I take that back, political posters is mentioned in the old version. Supervisor Brandt -You want to withdraw it and go back and check it out? Councilman Monahan- I wonder if it could say and maybe you cannot do this either? Paul, can you say commercial temporary wall signs? Attorney Dusek-The problem is and it is a very sensitive area of constitutional law some towns have had their sign ordinances struck down basically if you will the rule of law is you can regulate the sign where it is placed, what size it is etc. but you cannot regulate the speech on the sign. That is where you have to be careful of, you have to be able to allow them to use public copy in lieu of commercial copy if they wanted to say something that would, you can't like say only commercial that is where you are going to get into a problem I think. Now, you can restrict commercial signs a little bit more than others but. Councilman Monahan-When I was thinking of commercial signs I was thinking of the applicant would be a commercial person type of think can we do that to get around any of this? Attorney Dusek -You have, here again, under constitutional law as I understand it you can have more restrictions on commercial signs but you can't restrict other things that are not commercial speech. In otherwords if your actions restrict something that is freedom of speech nature not commercial then you have a problem so if you say commercial signs are the only temporary signs then you are kind of blocking other signs from being temporary. I think what you are trying to do is regulate all signs that are temporary in nature regardless of what they say and I think that is ok to do. Councilman Monahan-But we are saying placement, now we are into placement. Executive Director Martin-What Betty is trying to get at, she wants certain types of signs allowed for certain type of uses. Councilman Monahan-That aren't, don't have to be on the wall, because they cannot be on the wall. Councilman Goetz-Paul, in the existing sign ordinance that you are looking at its the political sign section separate or does it come under temporary signs. Attorney Dusek-It comes under temporary, it says all signs of temporary nature such as political posters, banner, etc. So, see they lumped everything in under the let me just check the back here I thought there was another section on...Betty, your concern is that they law as applied to political posters is impractical. Councilman Monahan-Yea. Where are you going to put pollical posters on a wall? Attorney Dusek-Then in my opinion you would be better off to go back to the drawing board and re-work this a little bit. To try and change this on the spot tonight would be I would be very hesitant because it is a very tricky area. Councilman Tucker-Let me ask you a question, all you people involved, what were you trying to accomplish here? Executive Director Martin-We are trying to if free standing temporary signs are causing such a problem and such a number of complaints from people then it was thought it was simplest and easiest just to eliminate them completely. Councilman Goetz-The setback on temporary signs has always been a problem. Executive Director Martin-The sign that we had in front of the Queen Dinner that is there now because it gets a temporary permit it is there essentially as it was before when it was getting all the complaints, I had at least one complaint a week on the CD for sale signs on Route 9 from people who even don't live in the community they complain about it. Councilman Monahan-There is no doubt they are popping up allover town there has not been any type of regulations about you know getting them renewed so they are almost permanent signs, you get a thirty day renewal and a thirty day renewal and a thirty day renewal. Executive Director Martin-We have got that too, that is in here. Councilman Monahan-I saw that..but Executive Director Martin-That is in here where its you are limited two temporary signs in a calendar year. Councilman Monahan-...in placement there has been some hazardous placement some of them too. Councilman Tucker-Wouldn't it limit them to two permit a year do it? Cut back on the problem? Attorney Dusek-I just heard something here that might offer a solution and that is that the problem with this restriction in here is that it specifically says that you cannot have free standing signs and what I think you do not really mean to eliminate free standing signs altogether obviously because there are somethings such as political posters that are free standing by nature or usually and you want the right to put those in real estate signs or whatever else you might have that might be temporary in nature. I think that one of the issues that Jim has mentioned is the fact that we have temporary signs that are staying up permanently now, the thirty day clause obviously will help to control that. If there is another issue, I just heard somebody say something about they are dangerous and close to the road well then I think you would address that issue. That would apply to political as well as any other type of sign. Councilman Monahan-Absolutely. Attorney Dusek-Maybe the thing is the problem has becoming that you are trying to limit too much they type of sign that you are allowing to be temporary and maybe what you want to do is open up that definition a little bit and then regulate it all in the fashion that is indicated. Supervisor Brandt -Consensus to send this back and do some more work on it? Councilman Goetz-Yes. We have a meeting set, what date was that. Executive Director Martin-I believe it is early September. I can make some changes I do not think, I think we have the general jest of the committee to bring it back to the Board next week. Councilman Goetz-Then we could still keep the public hearing date? Supervisor Brandt-No Executive Director Martin-No. We have to table that until next week. Supervisor Brandt -You want to withdraw the motion is that? Councilman Goetz-Yes, I would like to withdraw the motion to offer this resolution. Councilman Monahan-And I will withdraw my second. Councilman Tucker-I have one more question for Mr. Martin. Do you charge for all temporary signs? Executive Director Martin-We do not right now, but the Attorney tells me that, that is a problem in that you cannot discriminate in terms of your fee charging and correct me if I am wrong Paul, but right now the law reads that non profits are not charged the fee they just charge the deposit. I do not think that is constitutionally sound either you have to charge the fee in all cases. You have to be uniform, it does not matter how you charge it but it has to be uniform for all. Attorney Dusek-The situation is that if you feel the fee is warranted for a temporary sign permit there is no reason why anybody who has a temporary sign no matter who they are wouldn't pay that permit fee because the argument of your fee obviously rests on the fact that you need that fee because of the paper cost the revenue other wise you should not be charging anybody a fee. So, it is either everybody or nobody on the fees for the temporary signs. Councilman Tucker-You are including real estate people? Attorney Dusek-Anybody who has a temporary sign. Councilman Monahan-I don't think real estate signs for the town are not under the temporary sign regulations. Attorney Dusek-They may not be on a real estate. Councilman Monahan-What about these ones I see financing by First National Bank or Glens Falls National Bank popping up allover things like that. Councilman Goetz-Remember, we addressed that in the proposed sign ordinance. Councilman Tucker-I remember one time before a gentleman come in from 149 he had a free standing sign that advertised motor oil or something and they charged him $35.00 for it and he was quite upset because it was not any bigger than a real estate sign and they were not paying a dime. Attorney Dusek-The real estate signs are exempted from the permitting process, but that I will tell you and I cannot remember why now exactly why the court found that but that is legitimate real estate signs, for sale signs. Councilman Monahan-..exempt real estate signs and you can't exempt some of these non profit, to me there is something crazy here. Supervisor Brandt -Ok, you will come back with a rework on that, and try it again. DISCUSSION ROAD DEDICATION Attorney Dusek-Noted he did not have a letter from Mr. Naylor approving of the road dedication of Glen Court.. . Town Clerk Darleen Dougher-I have a letter from Mr. Naylor giving his approval. Attorney Dusek-The second issue is minor and I want the Board to be aware of the deed that we have the proposed deed received from the developer has two small errors in it in terms of the total number of feet at a couple of different points, one place it says 414 and should be 398 and another place it was 337 instead of 323 Mr. O'Connor represents the developer and it is my understanding that he will submit to us a corrected deed the survey map that we got is correct. I picked up the discrepancy when I was reviewing the deed against the survey map and it will be corrected but I wanted to bring that to the Board's attention since the actual deed that will be recorded will bear a date probably of tomorrow. Attorney O'Connor-I am Mike O'Connor for the record, with me is Michael Vasiliou who is President of Michael 1. Vasiliou Inc. the corrections we are making are corrections in a description that was supplied to us by the surveyor we can change the original deed that you have right now, Mr. Vasiliou is the sole share holder and can initial it and then there is no question of completeness no question of something to be done after the fact and it is over with. I would prefer to do that if you want. I offer also as a matter of neatness if you want I will have that page retyped tomorrow and substituted but you can hold the page as initialed tonight in the interim. Attorney Dusek-That is fine with me. Part II Environmental Assessment (Glen Court) Mr. James Martin-Does Action exceed any Type I Threshold in 6 NYCRR, Part 617.12? No. I do not think that it does. Mr. James Martin-Will action receive coordinated review as provided for unlisted actions in 6NYCRR, Part 617.6? No. Could action result in any adverse effects associated with the following? Cl. Existing air quality, surface or groundwater quality or quantity, noise levels, existing traffic patters, solid waste production or disposal, potential for erosion, drainage or flooding problems? No I do not see any. C2. Aesthetic, agricultural, archaeological, historic, or other natural or cultural resources, or community or neighborhood character? Councilman Tucker-No Supervisor Brandt-NO C3. Vegetation or fauna, fish, shellfish or wildlife species, significant habitats, or threatened or endangered species? Councilman Tucker-No Supervisor Brandt-No C4. A community's existing plans or goals as officially adopted, or a change in use or intensity of use of land or other natural resources? Councilman Tucker-No Supervisor Brandt-No C5. Growth subsequent development, or related activities likely to be induced by the proposed action? No C6. Long term, short term, cumulative, or other effects not identified in C l-C5? None C7. Other impacts (including changes in use of either quantity or type of energy)? None D. Is there or is there likely to be, controversy related to potential adverse environmental impacts? Councilman Tucker-No Councilman Goetz-No Executive Director Martin-That is it. RESOLUTION ADOPTING DETERMINATION OF NON-SIGNIFICANCE OF ROAD DEDICATION RESOLUTION NO.: 455,93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is considering the acceptance of The Glen, offered for dedication by Michael 1. Vasiliou, and WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is duly qualified to act as lead agency with respect to compliance with SEQRA which required environmental review of certain actions undertaken by local governments, and WHEREAS, the proposed action is an unlisted action pursuant to the Rules and Regulations of the State Environmental Quality Review Act, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, after considering the action proposed herein, reviewing the Environmental Assessment Form, reviewing the criteria contained in Section 617.11, and thoroughly analyzing the project with respect to potential environmental concerns, determines that the action will not have a significant effect on the environment, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby finds that the proposed responses inserted in Part 11 of the said Environmental Assessment Form are satisfactory and approved, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor is hereby authorized and directed to complete and execute Part III of the said Environmental Assessment Form and to check the box thereon indicating that the proposed action will not result in any significant adverse impacts, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the annexed Negative Declaration is hereby approved and the Town Clerk is hereby authorized and directed to file the same in accordance with the provisions of the general regulations of the Department of Environmental Conservation. Duly adopted this 16th day of August, 1993, by the following vote: AYES Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Brandt NOES None ABSENT Mr. Caimano RESOLUTION ACCEPTING DEDICATION OF THE GLEN RESOLUTION NO. 456, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHEREAS, Michael 1. Vasilious, Inc. has offered a deed to dedicate to the Town of Queensbury The Glen, which is more particularly described in the survey map presented at this meeting and the original deed being presented to this meeting, and WHEREAS, Paul H. Naylor, Superintendent of Highways of the Town of Queensbury, has advised that the road meets with Town specifications, and WHEREAS, Thomas K. Flaherty, Superintendent of Water of the Town of Queensbury, has advised that he has made an inspection of water mains and appurtenances along said road proposed for dedication and finds that the installation is in accordance with the requirements of the Town of Queensbury Water Department, and WHEREAS, the form of the deed and title to the road offered for dedication have been reviewed and approved by Paul B. Dusek, Town Attorney for the Town of Queensbury, and WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury has considered the environmental effects of the proposed action by previous resolution and issued a Negative Declaration pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the aforementioned deed for dedication of the said road be and the same is hereby accepted and approved, that the Town Supervisor is hereby authorized to execute, sign and affix the Town seal to any and all documents necessary to complete the transaction, and that the Town Clerk is hereby authorized and directed to cause said deed to be recorded in the Warren County Clerk's Office, after which said deed shall be properly filed and maintained in the Office of the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the road be hereby added to the official inventory of Town Highways, to be described as follows: Road Number: 494 Description: Beg. at West Mountain Road Easterly ending at So. Cui De Sac Name: Glen Court Feet: 850' Duly adopted this 16th day of August, 1993, by the following vote: AYES : Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brandt NOES : None ABSENT: Mr. Caimano Discussion held before vote: Councilman Tucker-Have the rec. fees been paid? Mr. Martin-Yes. vote taken Attorney Mike O'Connor-Mr. Brandt we thank you we thank you very much and we thank Paul and the Board for being so cooperative in expediting the approval process. While we are here I would just ask one other question, Jim Martin and I have talked about maybe having a wetland corridor there is a small piece of this property which is a wetland and our intention was to separate it and we did separate at the time of subdivision approval and it probably would go for taxes eventually and be owned by the County and I think Jim has a thought that he would like the ownership of that go to the Town we are willing to give the Town a deed to it if that is your thought and if that is your desire. I just make that a statement on public record. Executive Director Martin-The reason I would make recommend this is this as well as several other parcels will be coming to the Town for dedication on either side of the Clendon Brook we may have a chance to line up most of the property along the Clendon Brook from West Mountain Road to the Hudson River with the project that we have pending before us and it just creates a unique opportunity provides some protection for that brook and also created a possibility for a linear park involving potential fishing or nature trails something to that affect. Councilman Tucker-How could this happen Jim, when its a designated wetland, we had the same problem across the road... Executive Director Martin-Any activity to do in there would have to be subject to DEC approval and permit but even if it was just, my view, even if it was just to have and keep set aside that in itself has some value. Councilman Tucker-I agree with you 100% the thing is whether we take it or not it is going to be set aside and if we take it we are going to be responsible for it. If there are any problems, any dumping or anything else on the property we are going to be responsible. If you let the County have it they are responsible. Councilman Monahan-The County might not necessarily have it Pliney cause they could let it go for tax sale and anybody could bid on it. Councilman Tucker-Yea, but nobody could use it. It is all designated wetlands. That is the reason the developer is giving it to us he cannot use it. Executive Director Martin- I would normally agree with that comment if this was a parcel in and of itself but given the opportunity to line this up with several other parcels along their brook as a cumulative I think it has some. Councilman Tucker-We just turned one down at Harold Square we turned it down. Councilman Monahan-Who turned it down, I never heard of it. Councilman Tucker-You were right here Betty. Councilman Monahan-I never knew of an offer of any land from Herald Square. Executive Director Martin-That State parcel has a possibility of coming back as well as the Potvin parcel on the Northern side of Luzerne Road that would be a substantial holding of property along that brook. Supervisor Brandt-I think it is a major policy decision that we have to make and we are talking about wetlands I have seen the Town take wetlands in lieu of fees . Councilman Monahan-No, not in lieu of. Supervisor Brandt-Well, that is debatable. Mr. Mike O'Connor-That is not a condition of this offer. I do not mean to get into a prolonged discussion of it but I do know I was familiar with the offer from the people that were developing Herald Square that had some hard ground in it, in addition to wetlands, that would probably be more lean, more toward a trail system that you could develop along with the wetlands. I think the Calvin property also has some trial systems according to the neighbors the neighbors have already expressed an interest that the Town consider acceptance of. Supervisor Brandt-I think that is a whole subject in itself and we ought to take a good hard look at it and try and set a policy on it town wide. Executive Director Martin-The Potvin property I believe joins us on the Southern boundary right, Mike? Mr. Mike O'Connor-Southeasterly boundary I guess. Executive Director Martin-The Potvin parcel is coming as a matter of course through our recreation fee procedure being the next week or two to this board. Councilman Monahan-Jim, why don't you prepare us a map, of possibilities so we can see what we are talking about. Supervisor Brandt-I would ask that you keep that offer open and let us think on it a little bit and look at it from a Town wide policy because there is a question of taxes a question of liabilities and yet we do want to learn how to preserve open space and areas for game and what have wild life we do not have a good handle on it yet but we need to get one. Thank you. Mr. Mike O'Connor-The offer will remain open and we do thank the Board, the Planning Board and staff for getting us through this process. Discussion held regarding proposed resolution on approving agreement, Town of Queensbury & Queensbury Retail Limited Partnership-Attorney Dusek requested that the Board not entertain any action of this until next Monday...Agreed to by the Board. RESOLUTION AMENDING 1993 BUDGET RESOLUTION NO.: 457.93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz WHEREAS, there is a need to amend the 1993 Budget to address the receipt of CHIPS revenues, and WHEREAS, the Highway Department has requested a budget amendment, and WHEREAS, the Director of Accounting Services and the Chief Fiscal Officer have recommended and approved of budget amendments needed relative to said CHIPS accounts, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves, authorizes, and directs that the 1993 Budget be amended as follows: 1) Increase Appropriations in Account #004-5110-4630 (CHIPS Paving) by the amount of $22,773.00; and 2) Increase Estimated Revenues in Account #004-004-3501 (CHIPS Revenue) by the amount of $22,773.00. and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the 1993 Town Budget is hereby amended accordingly. Duly adopted this 16th day of August, 1993, by the following vote: AYES Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Brandt NOES None ABSENT: Mr. Caimano RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING PAYMENT OF FIRE SERVICE AWARDS RESOLUTION NO.: 458, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, by previous Local Law, has established a Fire Service Awards Program, and WHEREAS, the Local Law provides for payment of service awards to the following participants, in amounts which have been determined in accordance with the aforesaid Local Law, NAME & ADDRESS SOCIAL SECURITY # AMOUNT Lawrence Gregory RD#3, Box 3292 12W Lake George, NY 12845 081-24-0355 $ 412.31 Mr. & Mrs. William H. Barton 7 Meadow View Road Queensbury, NY 12804 2,795.11 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves payment of Fire Service Awards to the above-named fire fighters, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby authorizes the Town Supervisor to take such steps as may be necessary to provide for such payment. Duly adopted this 16th day of August, 1993, by the following vote: AYES Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Brandt NOES None ABSENT: Mr. Caimano Discussion held before vote: Councilman Tucker-Could somebody tell me is this a buyout? One is an estate. Supervisor Brandt-It is a death benefit, the major on is, the minor one I cannot tell you. These are awards that are people have earned through the law that we have established and this program that we have established and this is simply paying it. Councilman Monahan-I would hazard a guess Pliney that, that first one is because of age, when they reach a certain age they get their payout. Councilman Tucker-I was wondering if that is a total buyout, they are out of the program when we make this payment? Supervisor Brandt-I cannot tell you that. Councilman Monahan-I would assume that. Attorney Dusek-The question is on Gregory? Councilman Tucker-On both of them. Attorney Dusek-My understanding is that on both of these, well, here again, I am more familiar with Barton, I believe that is a death benefit payout. Gregory I am not sure the only reason you would be paying that out is for, either he has retired or because I doubt that he has vested yet so there must be a triggering clause in the agreement. We can verify that for you later if you would like. Vote taken. RESOLUTION APPROVING SPECIAL AUDIT OF BILLS RESOLUTION NO.: 459, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt RESOLVED, that the special audit of bills as represented by Voucher #93-3121, in the total amount of $900.00, payable to Warm Wood Stove & Heating Company, Inc., be and hereby is approved. Duly adopted this 16th day of August, 1993, by the following vote: AYES Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brandt NOES None ABSENT: Mr. Caimano RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING PURCHASE OF ONE TON DUMP TRUCK RESOLUTION NO.: 460, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is desirous of purchasing a one ton dump truck for use at the Town of Queensbury Landfill, and WHEREAS, James Coughlin, Landfill Superintendent, has informed the Board that the truck may be purchased at a State Contract price of $13,518.00, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, hereby authorizes the purchase of one, one-ton dump truck (1994 Ford) on the State Contract price of $13,518.00 from Orange Motors of Albany, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the funds be transferred as follows, for the 1993 budget, to pay for the truck referenced hereinabove: FROM: TO: AMOUNT: 910-8160-4110 910-8160-2001 (Vehicle Maintenance & (Misc. Equipment) $ 5,000.00 Repair) FROM: TO: AMOUNT: 910-8160-4400 (Misc. Contractual) 910-8160-2001 (Misc. Equipment) $ 5,000.00 910-8160-4770 (Old Loader Repairs) 910-8160-2001 (Misc. Equipment) $ 3,600.00 and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the 1993 Town Budget is hereby amended accordingly. Duly adopted this 16th day of August, 1993, by the following vote: AYES Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Brandt NOES None ABSENT: Mr. Caimano Discussion held before vote: Supervisor Brandt-This is brand new it is a State Contract purchase the small dump truck that we used for crews that are picking up along the side of the roads is totally worn out and this is buying one under State contract and what is the total price $13,600. vote taken. Discussion-Supervisor Brandt-Attorney Dusek I talked to you about a need for appropriating more money to the account for paying for engineering services for the landfill closure, Mr. Morse is here on other matters what I would like to do is finish all our other agenda's and then discuss that with him. ATTORNEY MATTERS Attorney Dusek-The only think I just wanted to mention to the Board is we have last week we had talked about some drainage situations that you were going to look into possibly getting some assistance with there is another one that came to my attention and Mike, I think that you are familiar with this one too, I think on Applehouse Lane and there has been some proposals made, neighbors seem to have some different opinions as to whether the proposals would work or not and you may want to consider some assistance there, I do not how you feel about that it is up to you and the Board of course but its, the persons, some of the people that are involved have contacted me over there... Supervisor Brandt-I would like to see it come to a head and make a decision and I have to agree with them. I do not mind getting an outside opinion there. Lets include that in our proposal for help. HUDSON POINTE DISCUSSION Supervisor Brandt-Jim do you want to lead us. Executive Director Martin-As the Board may recall we are at a point of determining completeness on the submission of the draft EIS for the Hudson Pointe project. I believe that actual submission date Allen you could help me on this was July 8th or 9th. Allen Oppenheim-Yes. Executive Director Martin-The official submission date. So, technically we are over the thirty day review period as a matter tonight we might simply want to entertain the idea of notifying them of an extension to be proper, the next thing is we have Dick Morse in attendance tonight who the Town has retained to assist them in the technical review of the document. He has some comments here that he has written up in a draft form I just got these signed he gave them to me as he came in. Supervisor Brandt -On the first item that you brought up the extension is that a resolution that we have to pass or what do we have to do there? Attorney Dusek-If you would like I will give you a resolution... RESOLUTION NOTIFYING APPLICANT OF HUDSON POINTE PUD OF THIRTY DAY EXTENSION RESOLUTION NO. 461.93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby authorizes the contact person for the SEQRA Review of Hudson Pointe Planned Unit Development, Mr. James Martin, to issue a written notice to the applicant that the Town Board desires an additional period of thirty days (30) to determine completeness of the EIS in accordance with 617.8b2. Duly adopted this 16th day of August, 1993 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT: Mr. Caimano Discussion held before vote: Supervisor Brandt-If we were to adopt such a resolution, is it the opinion of Jim, that it takes thirty days to do this or is this? Mr. Martin-I would say it would we well within that. Supervisor Brandt-In otherwords we are not trying to drag it out what we are saying is that it is going beyond the deadline and you want to work expeditiously to handle it. Mr. Martin-I regret that it has gone this long but there has just been so much before us. vote taken Executive Director Martin-I have some comments I wanted to go through the thing I would like to emphases here is that we are not really speaking at this point to the, necessarily the quality of the information or the specifics of it but just the document is in a complete form for reviewing by the public. We are still going to have an extensive review period by the public at which time the public as well as the lead agencies, the involved agencies will have an opportunity to comment on any part of the impact statement, specifics and all that type of thing. So, this is really a determination that it's complete and the two driving factors in determining that completeness is, is it in compliance with your scoping document which was arrived at the end of our scoping period and also is it in compliance with the SEQRA LAW 617.14 I believe is the... Attorney Dusek-There is a set of regulations that require the document to conform to a certain standard in terms of who it is organized and what its content generally is. Is does not get into specifics. I have compared that from a legal standpoint on your behalf and in my opinion is that is does conform to the SEQRA requirements with one small, when I say SEQRA requirements I am talking about just a listing requirements, I have some other comments I content. There is just one small thing and I think Dick might have mentioned it the other day to, location of property should be on the cover sheet. It is very small but it is required under SEQRA. Then there is some other comments but, that's as to its as to the substantive part of it. Executive Director Martin-So, the real driving force in this, is the scoping document from Morse Engineering and that would have been dated May 27th. I have some comments I was going to go through that I have had I do not know if Paul, had any and Dick Morse and see if it is a matter that can be taken up tonight or I imagine it might we might need another week for the developer to respond to our comments. Supervisor Brandt -So, you want to bring those up to us at this point? Executive Director Martin-Right, I can go through mine and Dick can go through his and Paul has got some and any the Board may have and alright? My first is I noticed a reference to NY State Coastal Policies, Laws and Regulations any of that apply to this section of the Hudson River? Mr. Mike O'Connor-Pardon me Jim? Executive Director Martin-There was a reference made to N.Y. State Coastal Policies Laws and regulations are there any apply to this section of the Hudson River? The contact phone number is wrong I believe you got it out of the phone book my phone number is 7454440 instead of 4436. I believe we should have some sort of discussion on the conservation easements are they to be under the ownership of the Town or the ownership of the developer? Next, there is a small reference to the 50' buffer in the transmission line being on most of the lots, it was my understanding they were going to be on all the lots. The project description on page 2.1 does not align with the project description on 1.1. I think there are some numbers that are ascus there. Then I have a lot, I guess I have a general concern about the quality of the maps supplied. I think it is kind of hard to read and the copy of it is just it just is not easy to read I think it has been copied too many times. The resolution on it is poor. No legion for trails on the site plan length of the trail composition or cross section of the trail. The number of buildings in the project how many are proposed with the breakdown of the type of buildings the townhouses that type of thing. Graphic display of the conservation easement on the site plan is confusing it is easily confused with the topographic markings due to the graphic ways it is shown as horizontal lines it looks like the topography of the bluffs as opposed to the conservation area, so it is rather hard to read. On page 2-8 section 2.3.3 no discussion of proposed layout I am talking about setbacks, clustering, etc. for both single family and townhouse units, roadway widths, radius of roads, curvature, drainage, swales paved, etc. or lot permeability. It would be very helpful to have the appendices tabbed because some of these individual appendices have appendix within the appendix and you get lost in there pretty easily. Show location of wastewater disposal area for the townhouses on the site plan and can it keep the 200' separation distance from the public road? That is a reference to page five of the engineering report and appendix F. How will the townhouse septic system be maintained? Ok. I have some comments regarding the storm water management. I think this is section of the report where this seemed to be a focus of the Board and it seemed to be a focus of the scoping document and I think it is some, very detailed attention even at this stage of the review needs to be given. Composition of the road to the river shore is it proposed to be paved or graveled? What will happen to the water collected, there is reference to a swale along the side of the road. Is that water to be infiltrated or is it to be collected? Stated the developer will seed all disturbed areas immediately upon completion of, I would like to see that statement made I would also like to see a statement that the Stormwater management practices both temporary and permanent will be provided in writing to the on site contractors. Again, in connection to the stormwater management, what's size dry wells and perforated pipe, what placement and what quantity. Details of the landscape plan should be given to the extent that they support the stormwater management plan. Another thing and I think this has been caused us problems in the past with PUD's that there should be some more on the market analysis we have a projection of a five to seven year build out here and we have a couple PUD's in here in the Town that have not gone especially well and I think we should have more support for that five to seven year period. I think we should be getting more detail on the first phase of the development the time schedule the number of lots, the length of the road the number of catch basins the general stormwater management approach to the first phase and more detail about subsequent phases. I think this is important to the Town as we begin to plan a capital improvement program for the Town we should know what we are going to be facing in terms of maintenance if we are going to need additional trucks or highway men to cover this additional road we should know that as soon as we can so we can plan for that in the future. Date specific on steps to be taken to prevent harm to the shoreline area environment. The reference on 3-47. In regards to the EMF what day and time were the readings taken what was the current demand and load over the lines at that time? Is it representative of energy demands of that power line? Reference to the comprehensive plan is this area being a view shed? On page 3-45 I do believe on page 4-1 where we are speaking about ir-reversible impacts this is a permanent change to the landscape and I think that can greatly be enhanced through references with the roads being put in and all that type of thing. Lastly page 5-2 I think we could have an enhanced narrative on the alternate design speaking simply to a reduced number of units and what would the impact of that be. That it all I have. Councilman Goetz-Could we get a copy of your? Executive Director Martin- I wanted to have these typed, I just did not have time, I will get them typed though. Supervisor Brandt-I would assume you would give a copy to the applicant though. Executive Director Martin-Yes. And to the, anyone else who would like to have a copy. Mr. Dick Morse-For the record I am Dick Morse from Morse Engineering and per contract with the Town we have done a review of this project, we have met with Jim and Paul and reviewed that also with the developer and just briefly I will go over these. You have copies and I believe Jim has copies and the developer has copies and we will make more copies available to everyone. The first item would be the cover sheet which Jim mentioned. The second item parking and circulation project sponsor has agreed to provide ten parking spaces for access down below we think we should get a little more detail on that. Page 2-11 Operation the project sponsor has agreed to supply additional information concerning, uses proposed for common areas, boats, motorized boats, ATV's in our opinion the ..the rules will be established an owner pride will eliminate any problems there are inadequate. We think we need more elaboration on exactly what we are going to be doing down there. Subsurface geology, I will get into that later and really it only applies if they are looking at getting relief on the soil percolation rate for subsurface sewage disposal. Topography, again we come back to the definition of top of bluff and at our meeting last thursday some additional information was provided to us, a definition and also a map that delineated the top of bluff. Again the top of bluff issue we did receive some additional information that needs to be put into the document. They have got a written description and also a map that shows the a line on the map that show top of bluff. Page 3-9 conclusions, it is stated in the final two sentences soil tests results are pending in our opinion this information is necessary for inclusion in the DEIS. That relates to, in that section we are talking about some contamination or potential contamination that was delineated on the site. Page 3 -12 Soils In discussion with the roadway that goes down the bluff it is stated that the roadsides swale will be lined appropriately ...rip rap is mentioned this should be clarified. I think Jim mentioned that also tonight. Page 3 -16 Surface Water Clarify if increasing recharge will increase headwall failure. They talk about in this section that failure at the headwall in the gully's might be caused by water hitting tight lenses and moving laterally and if we are going to recharge additional surface water into the ground than that needs to be quantified. Is that going to improve chances of headwall failure? Page 3-24 Wetlands. It is stated that the wetland boundary will be flagged prior to development and flagging is at best a temporary marking and we suggested that the project sponsor develop a proposal for serving the boundary and permanently marking the approved buffer zone limits in areas close to the planned development. Here, it is my understand that the site has been flagged by DEC a map was provided to us by the developer thursday showing a sketch from DEC showing the wetland flagging and, the new wetland boundary and it is my understanding that a survey is scheduled for that. Councilman Tucker-Is that larger than it was? Mr. Morse-It is somewhat larger. It does not seem to be impacting it, but it needs to be quantified I think on a map at some point, a little better than the sketch that has been provided. Page 3-31 Landuse and Zoning The scoping document had requested that proposed setbacks be outlined for each development area, Jim also hit on this tonight that we need to know setbacks and what they are proposing for these usage. Page 3-36 Educational facilities It is stated that the School Dist. will be supplying certain information regarding enrollment and capacity, in our opinion this information is necessary for inclusion in the DEIS. Police Protection the DEIS states that lighting will be installed through out the development we suggest that a description of this lighting be supplied. That could impact visibility. Figure 3.1 following page 3-45 visual analysis It is our opinion that this drawing should be modified to adequately reflect the upland edge of the fifty foot no cut zone as opposed to the no building zone. And we have had discussions with the developer on this and this seems to be just a drafting clarification that needs to be done. In appendix X, F of the engineering report and I will just summarize this. Tom Nace from Haanen talks about a more tighter more impervious layer that is formed by cobbles that is basically varies throughout the site and we feel that this is probably a tilted installation. Jeff Martin of our office has gone through quite a bit of research on this and we feel that if we are going to pursue the request for variance on relief of the rapid soils under the sewage disposal system that perhaps this the geology should be revisited by the developer because of the potential for hitting this and if these ...are actually tilted then they could break out earlier then coming straight down hitting a flat surface and then having to either move through it or laterally across it. If it hits this and this is tilted then it could follow that and break out on the plane. Also, we have requested some additional information on nutrient removal, we have talked about quantitative ability of the soils to assimilate the water sewage and storm water but we haven't hit on the nutrient qualitative side of that. Ecological report, dated June 28th under rare plants it was stated that supplemental letters will be forthcoming concerning identification of certain plants. In our opinion this information is necessary for inclusion in the DEIS. Under protected native plants Mr. Barber stated that within the development area there are certain islands of protected plants that would be worthwhile to be preserve in our opinion the project sponsor should consider in comment upon this suggestion within the DEIS. On the final page of his report Mr. Barber comments in item 4 that the new road crossing the power line could possible have an impact on the Dusted Skipper a rare butterfly. Hereto we feel that the project sponsor should consider the comment. Appendix F Traffic Study in the scoping document the project sponsor asked to resolve concerns of Sherman Island Road the Town Highway Superintendent I believe since our last meeting it was pointed out there is a document in here that shows an alternate routing on that, and that just needs to be, I think that is sufficient for where we are here at this point. At various places in the DEIS, reference is made to normal working hours we suggest that these be defined in the DEIS. The project sponsor had agreed to provide additional detail on the maintenance of various conservation easements and the fifty foot buffer on the top of the bluff and I think that should be delineated. I think Jim already brought that out. I think that delineates items that we have come over that we feel should be addressed. Councilman Goetz-Appendix H Traffic Study, you are mentioning alternate routing was that in, with the approval of the highway superintendent? Mr. Morse-Well, an I think the developer should maybe speak to that, the new mapping that shows the outlet onto the existing roadway system has that been reviewed with Paul? Unknown-Yes. Mr. Morse-Ok, and that meets his? Mr. Oppenheim-Let me be sure, the map that is included in that, the DEIS Mr. Morse-There is a sketch. Mr. Oppenheim-Yes. He has, ... Councilman Goetz-He has seen it but what does he think about it? Is there still a controversy? Executive Director Martin-He thinks there has been an improvement. Councilman Monahan-I do not think that is answering the question. Mr. Oppenheim-I do not believe, Jim you were at that meeting, I do not believe that there is a controversy, we sat through two meetings with him and we showed him that as well as an alternate and he seemed certainly to feel a whole lot more comfortable. Executive Director Martin-He does, that is a true statement. He feels more comfortable from the standpoint of.. .reduces plowing time it also allows emergency vehicle access an alternate route. Councilman Goetz-What is his usual procedure, does he send a letter to that affect? Executive Director Martin-I think we was waiting for the actual comment period during the DEIS to comment on it. Mr. Morse-I think an alternate has been proposed and that needs to go forward and be hashed thru the public... Executive Director Martin-It would be my preference to go with the alternate. Supervisor Brandt-Paul, you have some comments. Attorney Dusek-Just a few more, I guess, some of these may have and I think I know have been touched on in some fashion. The first one is and I believe that this may be a mis-spelling and if it is it could be somewhat confusing to people who read this. I know it appears at least on page 2-2 the word HIGHLAND is that meant to refer to Hiland Park as in up the road here? If it is it is Hiland. Mr. Oppenheim-...the answer is no, we would have to take a took at that... Councilman Monahan-I read it the same way you did, Paul, they were referring to the Hiland Development. Attorney Dusek - I do not know of any other Hiland. Mr. Oppenheim-..we will certainly correct that... Attorney Dusek-That could confuse members of the public if they saw it. Page 1-1 There is a comment in there about the report being a thorough report and the sentence structure after that indicating that if followed a scoping process, the concern that I have and the representation there is relatively minor but it is just that the purpose of the document is not to be totally encompassing as far as every single environmental aspect but rather to follow that of the scoping document, and I think you may want to clarify that paragraph a little bit. It kind of does do it in the second sentence, where it says you are following the scoping document. But I, my concern was somebody reading through this might think you are covering more than what is indicated in the scoping document. Third is, I note in a few places and just to give you a couple 3-9 indicates that information will be provided about a soil test, 3-23 indicates plant species information to be provided or to be identified, my recommendation would be if at all possible that information be included in the DEIS rather than waiting for it later. There maybe a couple other places where you said you were going to provide information, but those were the two that I noted. Number 5 Alternatives, Section 5 here again a comment somewhat similar I guess to what Jim made I am concerned that the alternatives are not sufficiently flushed out and I also am concerned that you do not have an alternative in, in terms of a lessor impact project such as perhaps a and this is your choice obviously it is your document but one that comes to mind is like a subdivision, a standard subdivision as an alternative. The other question I have which really goes to our engineer Dick, as far as the hydrological studies I am not capable of making determinations on where or not from an engineering stand point there is enough there and they are sufficient but I just noted that as a question mark that I just want to make sure that somebody is taking a good look at that. That really, I think that is it for my comments. Councilman Goetz-I do not think I got an answer to my question. Either that or I did not understand what you said. Ok. I want to know if we are going to have a letter from Paul Naylor as to what he thinks about the proposed change in the road. Unknown-I was not involved with the meeting of Paul. Councilman Goetz-Does that come under final EIS? Executive Director Martin-Like I said I think we was waiting to comment during the comment period I do not know if that is a matter of completeness. Councilman Goetz-What comment period, the one that we were just in? Executive Director Martin-No, the one that happens now the public review period is what, thirty days long Paul? Attorney Dusek-Well, it can vary but it is roughly thirty days long and its in part keyed into when you have your public hearing. Executive Director Martin-And that starts upon this Board's determination that the document is complete. Councilman Goetz-And now we have that extension. Executive Director Martin-Right. Councilman Goetz-So, it would come after that, who is responsibility to get the letter on that road subject? Executive Director Martin-He will be notified and if we wants to comment at that time he will be... Supervisor Brandt-What we are doing here is commenting on the completeness of the report and not on the substance of the report that comes in the next comment period, correct? Executive Director Martin-Yea, it is kind of a fine line you walk there are matters of substantives that are not there are a question of completeness, but... Councilman Tucker-I, maybe out ofline but I have a question on page I-lOne hundred and six acres of the total two hundred and thirteen acres fifty percent will be preserved as open space. Some of that open space will consist of conservation easements to be maintained by the Homeowners Association and I thought that we had a great deal of discussion over this and we decided that the Town of Queensbury was going to have the conservation easement because homeowners associations seem to disappear after a period of time. Mr. Oppenheim-Just to respond to that this was an item in our last meeting with Mr. Morse and Mr. Martin and we discussed it from the developers standpoint, you know we just want to come up with a solution that works well but we have always been opened minded in terms of who has the fee interest and the maintenance but I think that, I know that our conversation, there was certainly some interest on the Town's side in seeing the HOA had the responsibility of the maintenance. I do not know, Jim... Mr. Morse-I think there were several issues discussed, ..two weeks ago we talked about the HOA with certain responsibilities and then I think Jim is also thinking about larger the Clendon Brook area that was... Executive Director Martin- We should also begin to see or frame in what types of land are we going to accept land in lieu of recreation fees and to what extent or what are the specifics of that and that conservation easement will fall in to that potentially. Councilman Tucker-Why would that fall into that. Councilman Monahan-Not necessarily Jim I disagree with you on that. Councilman Tucker-So do I. Executive Director Martin-Ok. Councilman Monahan-Not necessarily. Executive Director Martin-Ok. That would deal with that issue that you have to establish then what do you want, do you want the Town to have responsibility to the conservation easement I mean talking about that in and of itself do you, is that the preference? Councilman Tucker-I feel that way. Because, we have had homeowners associations here in the Town and I do not want to mention the projects but after a year or two they are gone. Supervisor Brandt-The same discussion we were just starting to have with the previous people. How are we going to as a Town handle these kinds of things should we enact some kind of conservation easement that the Town administers? You know that is a new section of law, nobody looked at this from this Town Board's view point and it is kind of a can of worms to sort out. But, I think the sooner we sort it out the better. I think we need to give responsible answers to the developers on this. You, know there is a liability of owning land on the other hand there is an asset to the community of keeping certain lands for the community for the communal benefit. So, you have to balance out, how are you going to do it? Who pays taxes on that? If it is really for everybodys benefit, you know should it be taxed? I see the same issue with the cities water shed. If we want to preserve that we had better start doing something different than we are doing. I think we have got to, we cannot tax those kinds of lands and expect them to stay forever green because they do not, people sell them and develop them. The same issue the issue of the wetland along each stream should that go into a conservation easement or trust of some kind that is administered by the Town? I think we better take a look at that real hard we have talked about it the concepts have been kicked around a little bit but it never really been kicked around with any depth with the Board. Councilman Monahan-We already do have a great deal of land along Halfway Brook and that has been added to by previous boards. Supervisor Brandt -But, sometimes lands are offered in lieu of recreation fees, they are offered I saw an offering of that the other day. Councilman Monahan-The are offered. Supervisor Brandt-They are offered. Councilman Monahan-But, I am say, what I am talking about was in one instance we got much more land then what a recreation fee would encompass and if I remember our recreation fee correct me Paul and I do not want to quote it when I do not have it in front of me, it says certain lands that cannot be taken in lieu of the recreation fee, types of land. Attorney Dusek-There are criteria that you have to take a look at. Supervisor Brandt-To me I do not want to take wetlands for recreation fees it is pretty much protected. Councilman Monahan-I think criteria says you can't. Supervisor Brandt -Wetlands should go into some kind of a conservation easement and they should be relieved of taxes as far as I am concerned. I think that is fair play. But, when you are talking lands that are not wetland that are potentially productive land that is another category and then you have to balance the recreation potential vs the fees separate discussion, but I we need to set a policy here because it is coming on us all the time and we had some inconsistence in this in the past I talked to the recreation commission at their last meeting about exactly the same thing. There is need to set a policy period. Councilman Tucker-The only thing that I am bring up here I thought the policy was set on this particular thing right here. Supervisor Brandt-Well, I think in this particular matter you are right we did discuss setting up some kind of a conservation easement that would be controlled by the Town and there again you get into taxes who is in charge of the taxes and I think the idea was that you wanted the ability to enforce the conservation regulations.. . Councilman Tucker-No taxes involved in this Mike. Supervisor Brandt - Well, there can be taxes they may be very minor but they still are taxes in some of this property, I believe that is the case I maybe wrong. Councilman Tucker-The way I understand it this easements that we were talking about was going to be part of the property going with the house. But we wanted to protect the bluffs and fifty feet from the top of the bluffs, am I correct? Or was I at a different meeting? Supervisor Brandt -But the bluffs were not going to be deeded to the homeowner if I remember right. Mr. Mike O'Connor-In our early submittal and it is part of the Town file, I think what we offered to do was to convey the property from what is determined as being the top of the bluffs to the water edge in the areas that were in the archeological areas to the homeowners association subject to a conservation easement, enforceable by lot owners within the development or by the Town of Queensbury. It was, that is simply as I can say it I think, I think that was your question. Supervisor Brandt-That does cover all the issues and I think that is right I think that is what we did end up. Mr. Mike O'Connor-We submitted at one time a proposed outline of a draft, including the enforcement provIsIOns. Supervisor Brandt -So we have to restrict that and put that. Executive Director Martin-I think Alan you were going to get me a copy of that again weren't you? Mr. Alan Oppenheim-That is correct. Supervisor Brandt -Ok. Councilman Tucker-When you get a copy can I have a copy? Executive Director Martin-Yes, you certainly may. Councilman Tucker-Thank you. Supervisor Brandt-Is there any other comment that needs to be made here? Councilman Monahan-Well, I agree with one of the comments that has, several people have made this comment. I thought the alternative were very, very week about other types of development that could be done instead of this PUD, I thought was very, very week. Dick on 2-10 in circulation in parking I looked all over for these ten parking spaces when I was reading it because this map that we have got now has a lot of differences than any map that I have seen before as far as the point is concerned. I still do not find the reference to those ten parking spaces. I see it on the map but I do not see it in the writing. Mr. Alan Oppenheim-The description of it, is that? Councilman Monahan-It was not even mentioned as far as I can see in the writing picks it up on the map and this map is an entirely different map than even the corrected map that you sent me as far as that area of the point was concerned. Mr. Alan Oppenheim-Just so you know Betty, Councilman Monahan-My question is who is going to use those ten parking spots, I am trying to find out information about them that I cannot seem to locate. Mr. Alan Oppenheim-Just as a point of reference I know that the map that we sent you was probably two months ago this map is different because at the request of the Town Planner we have asked, have been asked to provide more detailed information on the map, so that is why this is the first time that you know this map has been out. In terms of who would use those spaces, members of the community. Councilman Monahan-What community? Mr. Allen Oppenheim-The Hudson Pointe Community. Councilman Monahan-So, it is going to be restricted to people within that development. Mr. Alan Oppenheim-That is correct. Councilman Monahan-Good luck. Then I am seeing a boat storage and a picnic shelter that I find was never mentioned before it is down on that area of the point tlIat I thought was not going to be used because archaeologically it has not been explored and the comment was made in one archeological comment that even kids playing down there could undo any archeological findings that might be there if it is not dealt with right now. If you do not do archeological work. The other concern that I have here is I am seeing this trail now go down the face of the bluff, that is a ravine area I understand we have no contours for any of that I think we need contour maps to see the steepness what is being proposed going down thorough. I find your economics on 5-3 you know a number of benefits will result from the development of the proposed project primarily the Town of Queensbury and the Queensbury Union Free Central School Dist. will receive a considerable increase in tax ratable and revenues. True, but you do not give the other side of the coin what those increased revenues are going to demand in expenses so I think it is very it is very lopsided. I have a little, I don't know what backup you really have for this housing demands too, I found that was a little weak on 5-4. That is additional comments to some of these others that I had also picked up and agreed with very much that Jim and Dick Morse made. Mr. Mike O'Connor-I guess I am a little bit of a loss then, there has been meetings, there has been a good number of meetings since the document was submitted and we seem to be hearing a lot of new comments this evening. But, I am a little bit of a loss because where we are at within the SEQRA process as I understand it is we have submitted a proposed DEIS trying to get onto a calendar or onto a time schedule when we would get full comment from everyone. A lot of the comments that were made so far from what I have listened to tonight are comments that I would expect that we would receive in the comment period the forty five day comment period. Once you determine that the initial completion or submittal is completed, I would guarantee you that we will have the same laundry list even if we change this today to answer these comments on the same subjects during that forty five day period. I don't think and I thought that one of the initial meetings and I have a memo of that meeting and it was dated August 12th it was done in house by ourself I guess although I was not in attendance at that meeting part of the purpose of the those comments by staff was do you see anything that is a red flag that you are not going to be able to answer down the road that would say that this project can't go forward. We had looked at those comments and thought that there was nothing there that we cannot respond to. I guess I am really at a loss, I thought that the submittal was complete I anticipate that we are going to have very lengthy comments that we are going to have to respond to. The questions that may come up may be as thick as the book and we will have to address them if they are pertinent. But, someplace or other you have got to determine that your ready to allow the public to comment on this document. Supervisor Brandt-Do you have any problem with the comment made by our staff or Mr. Morse? Mr. Mike O'Connor-We do not think that there is anything there that is going to be a show stopper as far as the project is concerned. Supervisor Brandt-Do you think you can address those fairly rapidly or is it a... Mr. Alan Oppenheim-I guess I would just like to get a little input on the definition, the purpose of the DEIS the definition of determination of completeness because my understanding was there had to, it had to be a substantial very substantial item to qualify for the document not being determined complete. As Mike said we want to move this along we feel that we can respond to all of these items but its, it is a level of detail that we did not anticipate at this point in the process. Councilman Monahan-My feeling is that this level of detail is necessary for the public to be able to comment intelligent for you to do the final one for the thirty day comment period. If you don't put this type of information in there the public does not have the basic information that they need to do their comments on. Mr. Mike O'Connor-I differ with that and if you take a look at 3-36 Educational Facilities It is stated the School Dist. will be supplying certain information regarding enrollment and capacity, if you look at 3-36 we actually give you the proposed or the thought impact of our project upon the School Dist. The School Dist. comment comes back to us as part of their comment upon the DEIS. You also have letters back and forth to the School Dist. already. You know you are talking about the public making comment, or being able to make intelligent comment. If you look at page 3-38 we are talking about the new...... guide to fiscal impact and analysis. We talked about School Age Children from Single family homes we give a percentage, we give a number of homes we give a number of children. We talk about school age children from townhouses, we give a percentage a number of units number of children. If the comment, if the public can't comment on what we think our impact is upon the school district based upon what has been submitted and that is the purpose of the DEIS is to give sufficient information so that the public has an opportunity to comment upon the project. Councilman Goetz-Ok. Do you want to address that comment, because he is commenting on what you said. Mr. Dick Morse-No, when we have had discussions on this particular issue it has been eluded that the developer has been trying to obtain basically a green light from the School that says, yea, this impact has no impact or minor impact on the school system. The comment todate talks about pickups, the school bus stops.. . and its my opinion and it is the developers opinion, because I know we have had discussions on this very point that they are trying to get a response from the School Dist. saying yes, this is fine or no this is not appropriate. I don't find ..a comment that would come from the school district but it is also a comment that I think the public needs to know. Whether its, I think it needs the boards consideration finally but if it were, if we have the numbers now we can provide them to the school and the school says we have no problem assimilating another forty kids or whatever that is. I think that throws that issue out as any sort of issue. Right now it is an issue but we will probably get time and time again ... Mr. Mike O'Connor-In due respect to where we are thought we have discussed this with the School Board or the School administration on more than one occasion you go back to the file and part of this document you have a letter from them dated September 1st. 1992 you have a second letter from the School District November 20th 1992 and you have a third letter December 11, 1992 from the School Dist. during all those times we have quantified and talked about the number of units that we are building the projection of children that we are going to have and at no time is a questioned raised in those letters. To say that the document is not complete at this point and to hold up going forward because we do not have something that has answered the question in that manner I think is unfair to the developer. It is beyond the process that you are involved in when you are talking about filing a DEIS and is the DEIS complete, and I pick onjust that one particular thing. I can pick on the other things also. Councilman Goetz-Like, it sounds to me like you think we are not going forward? How do you think that we are not going forward? Mr. Mike O'Connor-I would like to start the time clock for public comment as well as staff comment so that we can perhaps address all those comments in our FEIS. Councilman Goetz-Is that saying that we do not need the extension? Supervisor Brandt-No the extension is passed. My God lets move this along Mr. Dusek there is some points of law that we are talking about here we can sit and nit pick this thing to death, and it is not fair I am listening to the comments about, hell tell us about the market? There are some places that didn't go, I own one of them. I know why it did not go. Tell me about the market, who the hell can look in the future and tell the market in a free economy that's manipulated by the central bank and a bunch of politicians that can't balance a budget. I mean, you can that gets to be pretty thin. Who can look ahead and tell what the markets are please stand up my God they want you in Washington, quick. You know, and we sit here as a Town Board and expect those kinds of answers that's not realistic. And what we are doing is we are asking for something that are not realistic, we have to be realistic, in this process or we are going to be in court and we are going to find out that we have to get realistic, that is the way I look at it. Lets get realistic, lets talk to the real issues and put the real issues on the table and lets address the real issues, I think there is some good issues that were brought up, I would like to know how much power is going through that power line when they did measure the force I think that is a reasonable question to ask. I think there were some good questions that were asked about geology about the hydrology of water going through the soil and where it comes out will that erode. Those are reasonable questions, probably a handle can be put on those, but to sit here and just see how many things we can harass you with I don't think is a fair process. Now, I am talking my opinion but there has got to be some points of law that govern what these things mean. Attorney Dusek-When you are reviewing the documents such as this for completeness, this is one of the tasks that inevitability pits the agency against the applicant in terms the applicant feels he has supplied enough information the agency doesn't and then it is judgement call, there is no question about that. But, I think you hit it right on the head Mike when you said in terms of their perhaps there are some things that have to be addressed some that don't. My own feeling from what I have heard tonight foreinstance is on the school issue you could debate that I am sure. Mike has picked one there that would certainly be subject to possible maybe you would let that one go type of thing. But, there are some other issues that have been raised here tonight that I think do need to be addressed before you can, in my opinion before you find this document complete because SEQRA does require that the document be complete enough for public review and I think there is certain deficiencies in this document that have been pointed out that should be addressed. My recommendation would be that the issues be addressed by the developer in terms of either one, satisfying the request for information and cleaning up the document and then secondly those that he feels like say the school is a classic example if you cannot get the information well that is up to the Board then you certainly can say, well we will go ahead based upon the information that has been provided because he has provided quite a bit of information on educational facilities. But in the end it will be your judgement call as a Board whether the document is ready or not I am simply at this point submitting to you that it is my opinion that I think there are some things that do need yet be addressed you mentioned one yourself on the power line foreinstance, these are type of things that you want to make sure are in the document so that when the public reviews it they have enough there that they can make an intelligent decision as to whether they are going to oppose or come in and comment on it or speak in favor of the project. Supervisor Brandt -Can, is the developer willing to address the comments that were formally made and come back with what you think is a fair addendum to this and submit it on a timely basis and I think this Board is willing to address it and bring it to a vote whether it is complete or not. Mr. Allen Oppenheim-Well another way to do it would be I do not know how we can do this without chewing up too much time is to come out of here tonight knowing what, we have some consensus that is the big challenge to get some consensus on what items the Board wants us to see us address. Because other wise we are going to be bouncing around I can see it, bouncing around for another sixty days. Mr. Dick Morse-I would just like to point something out. We tried to take the scoping document and review this document in light of the scoping document. The Scoping Document basically is our point of departure for that review and under item five on Social Economic settings and impacts under item C Community Services, Fire, School, Emergency Services, Solid Waste Disposal, Police Protection and Utilities should be ..should all be evaluated for their ability to continue to provide adequate levels of services to the developer. Letters of verification or records of communication from the various services should be included. I remember when we were doing this scoping document that the developer specifically asked for that change in that language because they said we are having trouble getting confirmation from the school district. That is why we put that sentence in, that letters of verification or record of communications as they were talking about tele...at that time. I think with that in hand and using that as our point of departure for reviewing that I think our comment was justified. If the school district is not going to respond but I do not know that an effort was made by the developer to contact the school. Mr. Mike O'Connor-I am not trying to argue point by point with Mr. Morse or with firm or staffbut I think some place or other somebody has to say, let this go to the public or don't let it go to the public. I will go to another point which maybe everybody thinks is even more argumentative. Page 3-12 the comment or 3-9 the twelve comment conclusions. It is stated in the final two sentences soil tests are pending. This is talking about possible pollution or contamination pollution for the house hold waste that was found throughout the wooded areas of the site. Phase I of the environmental study showed that there was no contamination. This is over an above and beyond that, that some soil tests are being done independently by Niagara Mohawk not necessarily as part of the review project they will share them with us. But to hold up this project review for something the even phase one did not suggest I get into a problem. We know of no contamination on this site we said we know of no contamination on this site our Phase I environmental said that there was no known contamination on the site. To say that the DEIS is incomplete until we have soil test I do not think is fair to the developer. I guess, I can go though a number of these things. We thought in all the pre-submittal meetings that we had come to a conclusion or come to some consensus of the area that you wanted information submitted on. I actually think, if you look at the comments that are here most of those comments are comments that are made going from the DEIS to the FEIS, and not on the question of completion of the DEIS. Mr. Alan Oppenheim-I guess the only issue is, and we can go back and forth on a lot of these items, the only issue is how as a group to get from here to the point where we have some consensus on items and whether it is schools or we will address them but we just want a process that is going to be reasonable where we don't have to get. There are a number of things where its is at a level of detail that at least we were under the impression we did not have to address at this point in time. What is, how do you define substantial? Paul? Executive Director Martin-It has been my approach to these things that the better job done up front on one of these types of documents the easier it is at the other side. The FEIS is that much shorter and that much less controversial and that much less involved. The better job that is done in the draft, the draft is the crux of the matter in the ElF process. The better that is the easier things fly at the other end. You are only spreading out the pain if you want to you know snake it by with a controversial document, at the beginning. Mr. Mike O'Connor-We do not think it is controversial and we object to that characterization of it. Executive Director Martin-Ok, maybe that is not the right term. Mr. Mike O'Connor-I will go back to page 3-9 this is as written and this is on the question of contamination. There was no staining of the ground or stress vegetation that might suggest hazardous materials were present. Soil from the debris pile area are currently being tested for added assurance. But still we are told that, those soil tests have to be part of the DEIS before it is complete. We have told you what we found we told you what has been shown on the ground and we have offered to do something in addition to it and now we are being told that we should wait until that additional assurance is before you before deem this document to be complete. I do not think we are even required to do soil testing based upon what has been shown on the ground. That is typical abandoned property. Mr. Alan Oppenheim-On what piece of vacant land do you run into land now, truthfully, we need to assure ourselves on this, I think that as prudent business we need to assure ourselves but, how many pieces of vacant land don't you always run into some type of household debris and dumping and that is the case and we are taking it to the next level, I think all we are saying we just do not want to hold up the process. I think all the work has been done. Councilman Monahan-When are you going to have the results of those tests? Supervisor Brandt-Do we need the results of those tests? Councilman Monahan-I am just wondering, if the tests, if they are going to have the results tomorrow aren't we arguing about something that is silly to argue about? Mr. Mike O'Connor-I can go right though each item Betty and give you the same argunIent by reading what is before you. Councilman Monahan-I am just saying when are you going to have the tests results. Mr. Mike O'Connor-I do not know. Councilman Monahan-So that is an unknown right now. Executive Director Martin-The thing is, it was a stated concern of this Board from the outset and it was reflected in the scoping document, that Storm Water Management and that type of thing was a concern and I quote out of the scoping document. A typical plan should be developed paved areas and house sites that defines spacing and frequency of recharge and. . detention system. It goes on conceptual plans for on site sewage disposal should be outlined including measures to protect surface and ground water. And further, concept sediment and erosion control plan should be developed with particular attention given to the project phase sequence and on site off site service water and wetlands. That says to me that we should be looking at a typical lot in this subdivision showing a concept plan for that looking at a typical section of the road showing a concept plan for that I mean that is all, I do not see any of that here. Mr. Alan Oppenheim-That is separate, I think, from what we were just discussing Jim. Executive Director Martin-That is where the bulk of my comments were on the storm water because it has been the bulk of the concerns from the beginning. Councilman Monahan-I think the septic there are things about septic in here jump back and forth between whether they would have to bring soils in or not and you know it is like there is never really anything too definitive in here it runs all over the place without really telling us anything as far as the septic systems are concerned. Mr. Mike O'Connor-The DEIS is not a construction document. Councilman Monahan-I did not say it was a construction but it is also a philosophical document and you did not follow one line of philosophy as far as your septic systems through to a conclusion. Councilman Tucker-May I make a comment as far as the septic systems? It will be up to the N.Y. State Board of Health, what kind of septic system they have to design for this project. This Town Board or this Town government will not have any say in it what so ever. They will determine that. Councilman Monahan-You do have a proper job on SEQRA you better also put any precautions in there that you think have to go in there. Supervisor Brandt-What is the basis that we have to ask for that, are we technicians and we understand a whole lot about sewage handling on these kinds of soils, I am not. Attorney Dusek-No, but you are the lead agent who has to take on all of these ... Supervisor Brandt-But we are asking them to be discussed, they are discussing them. Are we supposed to look at the design at a great detail? I am not capable of that I do not even look at that, that is what Betty is suggesting. Councilman Monahan-No, you don't you do not look at the design but you say as we have done in other PUD's as the result of test borings if the soils has to be amended, it will have to be amended, you do those kinds of things as a mitigation measure that is standard procedure. Councilman Tucker-This has already been determined. Mr. Mike O'Connor-Let me go forward just a little bit in my thought process in it and it may be flawed ok? But my thought is that if you start, if you deem that this document were complete you will get written and oral comment from the public. Then at that time everything can be precisely put down categorized and responded to by the developer. The septic system if that is a major concern part of it will be department of health approved, part of it will be DEC approved for the townhouses. We can give more information on those items at that time. This is back again, we go back to the very beginning when we went from negative to positive, or positive to negative on our dec as to what information we were submitting at what time. I am not trying to beg the question, the wetlands, the comment page 3-24 It is stated that a wetlands boundary will be flagged prior to development. The wetland has already been surveyed. We can submit the survey. That is not in the process that has been surveyed. Councilman Tucker-That has been surveyed, in conjunction with the letter that we received tonight? Mr. Alan Oppenheim-I do not think, the work that has been done has been put on a plan and handed to.. Unknown-We do not have it on a plan, work has been done we do not have the ... Councilman Tucker-Because this letter states that the size of the wetland has been changed by the N.Y. State Conservation Dept. does your survey show that? Mr. Alan Oppenheim-The survey shows the boundaries that DEC flagged in the field. Mr. Mike O'Connor-And we will submit that as part of the FEIS. Attorney Dusek-I may be able to make a suggestion for the Board here for your consideration, and that is it seems to me that the bulk of the comments came from Mr. Morse, Mr. Martin, myself and I think the Board members had just one or two that were in the record. It seems to me that one way to handle this if the Board, first of all I think the Board has to make a determination as to whether or not the document is complete at this point. The developer is asking you to determine that. If you feel however that it is not complete based upon what you have heard from Dick Morse as well as your inhouse staff then I think the way to possibly handle this would be to have those individuals meet and then discuss these issues rather than or the other alternative is to sit here and go through each item by item and make decisions on what will be done tonight, but... Supervisor Brandt-Why don't we have meeting of these people and come back to us next week and see if they have resolved it and if they haven't resolved it then we will take it item by item. Councilman Goetz-Wait a minute, a meeting of what people? Supervisor Brandt-The staff, we were just talking about I believe and the developer, Mr. Morse, Jim Martin, and our Attorney that is what I heard. Councilman Goetz-The way I see it is, our people have said what the concerns are the staff and the hired consultant and it almost seems like it is up to you, if you do not want to answer the questions, I am not saying you do not want to answer the questions but you might want to answer them collectively. That is your prerogative, but our prerogative is to determine if that is a complete DEIS. I just do not think that we can not, I would not sit here and say this is a complete document. Mr. Mike O'Connor-I have no problem meeting with staff and the consultant and trying to refine or with the Board, in trying to refine, but I think that some of the comments that are here it would be nice if we lived in an academic world and we had fifty years to develop the most, this development. But, I think from a practical point of view and I would be very happily surprised if we actually went line by line and answered this questions and that was the end of the question. I know I have a colleague that is sitting here that probably has ten pages of questions willing to add to what is here and some of them are going to be redundant. Lets get to that point and answer them all at that the same time is what I guess I am asking the Board. But if you are suggesting a meeting we are available, tell us when you want to meet. Attorney Dusek-I think I should make a comment, that it is important for the developers to know this, because I have spoken to Jim and I was involved in the session with Dick Morse the other day and of course I have reviewed this document myself. One of the objectives of Jim as well as myself and I, and Dick you can correct if I am wrong, but I believe that one of the objectives of the three of us anyway was to make sure that our comments were in fact complete. I know Jim has worked very hard on reviewing this document and we wanted to be ready by tonight. Now, we did have a meeting last week, Thursday and we.. Executive Director Martin-..not competed ... Attorney Dusek-And I told the developer that and I even alerted the developer to some of my initial concerns that I was just seeing from just from a quick review of it. At this point I think all three of us have reviewed the project very thoroughly and the goal now is just to get it down to the refined thing. The goal of the staff here is not to continuously pick away at the document and keep the thing in orbit forever until we can finally review it. Rather the purpose here is we raised what we feel are legitimate concerns if the developers staff in terms comes back and says well heres where you are err on this side or here's where we can provide some information then I think that is the type of discussion and dialogue that should take place. Then at that point if there is finally discrepancies left on whatever fine points there are it will be up to the Board because you are the ones that ultimately have to decide whether or not it is complete and if there are any remaining issues hopefully there will be very few or none at all you will be in a position to act on the document. I think it is unfair right now to the Board to have to try and analyses this whole batch of issues some of which we know the developer will in fact comply with before you have to make that decision. So, it seems to me the better thing to do would be meet resolve them if we can and then come back to the Board as the Supervisor has suggested. Mr. Alan Oppenheim-Can we get a, I am all for that I think that is a productive way, can we get a somehow a list of all the comments as soon as possible. Executive Director Martin-I can get you, I will fax you down list tomorrow morning, you already have Dick's in writing that is all of yours right, Dick? Mr. Dick Morse-Right. Executive Director Martin-Paul you have? Attorney Dusek-You can have my tomorrow, I had just had a very few that I added on top of what everybody else had here so. Executive Director Martin-If you want to have tomorrow like we can meet Wednesday and give you as much time as we can between now and next Monday night? Supervisor Brandt-Is that acceptable to the Board? Is that acceptable to you Pliney? Councilman Tucker-Next when, Monday night? Supervisor Brandt -Yea. The procedure of giving all of the comments that our staff, Dusek, Martin, Morse and ask them to review that a comment back and then we will look at it as a Board. Is that acceptable Betty? Councilman Monahan-Yes, accept I do think we need more information about the point because the point at one time was not going to be disturbed and now it is being disturbed and now it is being disturbed. Supervisor Brandt -that is fine but now it is part of, that is the environmental impact statement when all of the comments come in and you can have that until Hell freezes over or forty five days which ever comes first and go, you know? We got to move this thing, I just I do not want to sit here and go through this argunIent forever, somebody has a right to an answer and we have an obligation to give it, so as far as I am concerned if you people work together with, that's our staff come back in a week and lets see if we have enough information to accept it as a complete document if we do then we will accept it on the spot and go into the comment period or whatever the next step is. All right is that acceptable. Discussion held regarding setting of date for meeting with staff...it was noted that Wednesday seemed to be acceptable to all the parties...Mr. Freidland-Ifyou are going to meet Wednesday, as representative of ....invite myselLSupervisor Brandt-Certainly. No problem. Mr. Freidland-Could I get copies of the comments? Executive Director Martin-Yes. I will shoot for Wednesday and when I have it specific I will call your office tomorrow. Mr. Mike O'Connor-For the purpose of your record I think I have an objection that I will make I do not think that you have opened this document to public comment at this point and I think we are just prolonging or potentially prolonging the point of getting there by entertaining public participation. This is the purpose of filing this is to allow public comment in full and without any restriction or condition upon their opportunity to comment. I just get fearful of involving it at this point. Attorney Dusek-I think I would like to join in on what Mike is leading to what concerns me on involvement of interested parties at this point is that it is, you want to think about the precedent you may be setting. Usually the agency the Lead Agency and the involved Agencies determine the completeness of the document even the involved Agencies are not usually involved it is the Lead Agency that makes that determination. And then the document is put out and the comments are. What I am afraid of if we get too many people involved you may never get issues ultimately resolved enough to get to a complete document. Supervisor Brandt - I would not mind hearing their comments to our staff so that we can look at them and say is there something that's missing that we missed. Attorney Dusek-As long as it is in that context I think that would. Supervisor Brandt-That is the way I look at it. Attorney Dusek-I do not think you would want them to have them part of the process at this point and having the developer to answer their concerns....Mr. Freidland-...it seems to me if we have something useful to say and we do not get to say it until next Monday...Mr. Mike O'Connor-You have a full forty five days to make comments once this Board determines that there, the public period is open for comment and I am just trying to get to that point. Supervisor Brandt-I will help you get to that point anyway that I can. But, I think that it doesn't serve anyone to shut it out completely let them make the comment staff look at them if they see something that is really missing might as well throw it in and get it taken care of especially, it might be something you agree, ought to be handles. Mr. Mike O'Connor-I doubt that. Councilman Monahan-Perhaps they would like to make written comments to staff ahead of time and let the staff look at it and see if it should be included in the staff notes. Supervisor Brandt-You can write comments to us anytime and our meetings are open. We do not close meetings. DISCUSSION LANDFILL Supervisor Brandt-For the publics information what we have here is that our, we have a contract with Mr. Morse on the landfill closure, on preparing a closure document and overseeing certain aspects of the operation of our landfill and we made a compete design of that project and submitted it to DEC and DEC basically told us that they did not like certain parts of it and we had to re-submit new designs. What happened is it consumed more engineering time than we had originally projected so our appropriation is inadequate to keep going with what we have to do and so I have asked Mr. Morse to prepare a schedule of expenses as they may come up of what we can predict and fore cast now as best we can of the closure process. He has submitted by fax to me a list of those and I gave them to the Attorney to prepare a resolution but as long as he is here the Attorney has not had a chance to do it, as long as he is here I would like to discuss it and let the Board consider it and prepare a resolution so we can continue with the services that we need. (Supervisor Brandt-requested that Mr. VanDusen address the Board while the Town Board is waiting or the return of the Town Attorney) Mr. Ralph VanDusen-Qsby. Water Dept. I talked to Mike on Friday regarding the engineering proposal from O'Brien and Gere that we had Supervisor Brandt-Mike Brandt right, when you talk about Mike's a lot of times and I want to make sure we all understand. Mr. Ralph VanDusen-Supervisor of the Town of Queensbury, and as a Board there really been aware of no discussion about what you feel we should do for the next step as far as engineering proposals. As you know we received a total of six proposals, we have met with the firm that gave us the proposal for the least amount of dollars it was roughly a twenty percent difference between their proposal and the next proposal. I can tell you that they were almost relatively equivalent as far as the issues that they were going to address certainly within the three or four firms that gave us the lower prices all were comparable in the scope of services that they were going to provide. I talked to O'Brien and Gere today they still do not have the numbers that you had asked for at that meeting. I would like to find out from the Board what you would like to do for a game plan as far as meeting with other firms do you feel that we have met with enough just that we needed that additional information to make the decision. Personally I have a little bit of a concern about asking these other firms to come in if they are realistically there is not much of a chance that we are going to be hiring them. Supervisor Brandt-Ralph, we are approximately $100,000 jump from the bid of O'Brien and Gere who we interviewed to the next. Mr. VanDusen-It is about $130,000. Supervisor Brandt - I asked you if there was any new technology that was involved in these other bids, technology different than what we are looking at that could save us in a capital project and you described to me that from your review there wasn't. That basically it was all bids of the same technology. Mr. VanDusen-The construction costs would be at least equal too if not greater than I would anticipate construction costs of O'Brien and Gere. Supervisor Brandt-My feeling is with the meeting that we had on this I am satisfied with what I heard and I do not need to move on and talk to the other firms, speaking for myself. I do not know how the rest of the board feels. Councilman Goetz-We talked a bit about it I think Nick is not interested as far as I know in meeting with the others, at first I thought we should just because I thought that was the process but I have been convinced by others that it is almost like an insult to bring them in and make they go thorough the whole thing. Mr. VanDusen-Some of the firms are from down State a long ways... Councilman Goetz-I would defer to going with O'Brien and Gere presentation and not the others. Supervisor Brandt-Pliney do you have an opinion on it? Councilman Tucker-No opinion Councilman Monahan-I really do not see the sense in interviewing other firms unless there is going to be some innovated technology that O'Brien and Gere had not thought of and then it would not bother me if the contract was more if they were going come up with some system that was a lot better or something like that. If that is not out there I think it is a waste of our time and a waste of their time. Supervisor Brandt-To me the last item that we talked about which was the high lift pumps was probably the most important thing we have to resolve and ... Councilman Tucker-That was the new pumping station? Mr. VanDusen-At this point I think it is very important that there be sufficient dollars in the engineering budget to allow them to properly evaluate all the alternatives so they can give you the information so when it comes time for a map, plan and report you can make the best decision based on that information. Councilman Tucker-This is what they were going to do for us as soon as possible. Mr. VanDusen-They were going to get back to us with a price I would expect tomorrow or the next day we would have that information back. Supervisor Brandt-I think it is the consensus of the Board, Nick did talk to me, he said he does not want to interview more when there is that step in the difference in prices and as far as I am concerned I have no problem. I thought the interview went very well and I think that O'Brien and Gere certainly addressed most of the issues that I thought were important in fact I think they addressed them all. Councilman Tucker-What is the Attorneys opinion on this I would hate to get going on this thing and in a week or so he would tell us that we cannot do what we are doing. Attorney Dusek-First of all you are not technically under the strict guidance of the bidding laws in any event but even if you were if you are going with the low bidder obviously that says quite a bit in an or itself in terms of not having to review anyone else. In addition to that you set your own criteria for how far you want to go in the review process. You have received written proposals, you have read those if you feel that you do not need to go any further you are under no legal obligation to conduct further interviews. Supervisor Brandt-Probably we ought to re-examine this once after we hear the high lift pump station questions articulated and look at those figures and if that tells us we ought to be looking at another engineer then so be it but if we get thorough that ok then maybe we will just settle here for the engineer we are talking to. Councilman Monahan-If I remember there were three areas we asked what it would cost if they did additional work, they gave a couple off the top of their heads and the other one they wanted to work on. Supervisor Brandt-That was the high lift pump station the rest we have figures on. Councilman Monahan-So, we know how much to add to the base bid if we want them to do that. Mr. VanDusen-As soon as we have the number on the high lift we have the total dollars. Supervisor Brandt -You tell us and we will get together. Mr. VanDusen-Paul what it the procedure for the Board once we establish that dollar figure. Attorney Dusek-A proposed contract should be drafted that is acceptable to both parties and then present it to the Town Board with a resolution of approval. Mr. VanDusen-Questioned if there was a need for a public hearing? Attorney Dusek-For engineering services, I do not believe sO,m I will double check that. LANDFILL DISCUSSION Supervisor Brandt-We are talking Landfill contract, as I understand it accounting told me that we have run out of money in this account and we cannot pay the last bill or a little piece of the last bill that was submitted under the resolutions that we have passed. The problem came that we designed with paper mill sludge to try and get a source of income into the liners to try and make money doing our ceiling. But, DEC will not accept that and shut us out of that so, we have had to redesign and so our design cost got pushed up beyond what we had anticipated. There are other places where we got into higher costs than we anticipated. Mr. Dick Morse-The C&D issue was a whole new issue and we have been working with you to achieve. Supervisor Brandt -We had to determine if a cubic yard of C&D actually uses a cubic yard of space in our landfill. Mr. Morse-And all the associated issues to get you permitted which you are now to take C&D, we basically did two designs if you will recall one was the 480,000 cubic yard when we were looking at trying to take in as much paper mill sludge and then when DEC rejected that we went to the minimum C&D which is 150,000 -160,000 which is what has now been in concept accepted by DEC and of course both of those were divergent from the original cap which was the old cell one extension cap that went on over. Supervisor Brandt-We also did some calculations to see that the volumes that we were receiving how they were effecting the actual volume in place. Mr. Morse-That will be on going to verify that to see how we are coming. What I did fax up on the 9th to Mike Brandt are seven items that should take us from here through competition and what we consider a conservative estimate: 1. If there are responses to the latest submission to DEC and this submission is for final acceptance of the closure plan that basically reflects one hundred and fifty thousand cubic yards if they come back and say we need additional data or something like that, that is what the item number one is and that is a total of $2,000. If that is accepted the plans are completed and then we will go to: 2. Item 2 Which is preparation of the specification and you will see 20 hours of engineering time and 8 hours of secretarial time in that line item. 3. Item 3 Is bidding assistance and this will, this is just some time to answer questions from various bidders during the bidding process. 4. Item 4 Is to establish some additional bench marks during the construction phase so that we have survey information out in the landfill itself and the second item under survey is to complete on a mont11ly basis to October, Jim Coughlin has requested that we verify his quantify so he can back check those against what he has actually bring in and what we are finding is that if he brings in ten yards of C&D he actually putting in place putting in between five and six with his compaction, we need to verify that to know where we are so that we are, so when we get closer to the shut off date of October the 9th we will be, we can guesstimate where we are at a little more accurately. That assumes we will be done in October and I do not know there has been some talk that maybe we will be an extension beyond that but that's very much up in the area at this point. 5. Item 5 Is for the inspection services, and this is assuming that we will have a plan in place for this year and that, the board wishes to proceed and enclose cell one this season. Supervisor Brandt-If that doesn't happen the time runs out we just don't spend that money and the money would stay in the account. Mr. Morse-There are thirty two weeks, that would be twelve weeks for this year twenty weeks for next year where we would close out the remainder of the landfill. That is a similar number that we had in the initial proposal but we have expanded it somewhat to reflect cell one this year and possible cell one this year and the remainder of the landfill next year. There is serious question if we can get in the ground and do work on cell one this year if we have not yet received final approval and if there is questions, technical questions on what we have submitted that can delay it further and then by the time we make specs we may not be in a situation where we can get bids on a timely basis to get work done before the weather closes in on us. Mr. Morse, if we do not have an approval in hand from DEC by the end of this month we probably will lose this fall. Supervisor Brandt -in which case that item will be extra and will carry to the future, or not get spent. Mr. Morse-Bring the board up to speed, we do have a geo membrane now, as our cap membrane and we feel that is the most cost effective solution for you and that does require a temperature of has a relatively fine temperature range when that can be installed, the seaming system for that. Supervisor Brandt-It cannot be installed in cold temperatures. Mr. Morse-Under that item 5 there is some testing evaluation where the inspector will physically bring the data into the office and then an engineer in the office will review that that is forty hours of that time. 6. Item 6 The water district report and this is still an item in your budget, we have basically prepared the plan and I will probably have that up within the next day or two for your review, there are some issues I think that you need to evaluate on properties that are going to be in or out of that district but once that plan has been confirmed then we can repair that report. You can see about $1100, 1200 dollars in there for that report, that will detail costs. 7. Item 7 Just for misc. printing some mileage and photographs that we will need to be taken to certify hat. Supervisor Brandt-If it is all right with the Board then what I would like to do is prepare a resolution and maybe for tomorrow nights meeting we could pass it so we could pay the bills that we owe. Agreed to by the Board OPEN FORUM Mr. John Schreiner-Questioned the status of Dunhams Bay Road. Executive Director Martin-I have asked the County to do a traffic study of that area, they indicated that they did not have the time. Attorney Dusek-Regarding Mr. Salvadore's road cut, Mr. Naylor is going to treat it like any other driveway permit in terms of its analysis of where it intersects with the highway and the point of intersection, we are going to treat that road like any other road in town as a road by use and Paul will determine why much is a usable portion and that is all we are doing. Noted a resolution will be forthcoming outlining the history of the project, and then going to DOT to get a release from them. Mr. John Schriener-Questioned if it would be a Town Road? Supervisor Brandt-That is what it sounds like. Mr. John Schreiner-Questioned if now there can be legal handicapped parking? Attorney Dusek - I do not believe we can but we can check that. Mr. John Schreiner-How much of the road are we taking? Is there any more discussing on that, we talked fifteen feet? Attorney Dusek-...noted each issue will be handled separately... Mr. John Schreiner-Questioned if it is a town road, noted he felt there were dumpsters on there and we have boats parked on there, what do we do about them? Attorney Dusek-It is up to Paul, if you have anything that is an obstruction on a Town Road, Paul typically will notify people that they have to move an obstruction. Mr. John Salvadore-RE: Dunhams Bay Road-Is it up to the Highway Supt. to enforce the rules of the road or the Sheriffs Dept.? Attorney Dusek-Traffic infractions are concerned, parking violations are up to the Sheriffs Dept. Mr. Salvadore-Before the Sheriffs Dept. can act he has to know the ground rules are, where the road is where you park what the intersection regulations are signage? Attorney Dusek-part of that was to be resolved by a traffic engineer. Councilman Tucker-Isn't there a road there? Attorney Dusek-there is. Mr. Salvadore-But that road is not a Town Road by use. Attorney Dusek-This is the ago old question John indicated that it is not a road by use the Town I have offered an opinion to the Town that I think you have a strong case for saying it is a road by use. Supervisor Brandt-We are going to believe you...ifhe says it is a road by use it is going to be a road by use I bet you. Councilman Tucker-Then don't all our rules and regulations apply? Attorney Dusek -You do not have any rules and regulations up there on road by use....it would be treated like any other road in the Town of Queensbury. Councilman Tucker-Noted if a boat is parked in the road the Sheriffs Dept. would have it removed. Mr. Salvadore-The Sheriff cannot act unless he knows that in fact that is a Town Road by use that boat is park on a Town Road by use. Supervisor Brandt-I would think you have to define the road. Attorney Dusek-We tried to do that in cooperation with all the neighbors and were not successful. Supervisor Brandt-Now it is for us to do it, if we have determined that it is a road by use, lets go up there and say this is the road. We need the Highway Supt. to help us. Attorney Dusek -You should have that and Leon Steves survey it out...it is a matter of having a final map prepared. Mr. Salvadore- I really think you should reconsider the thought of having somebody what the safety problems are involved with that road and its intersection in two places with route 9L. Councilman Tucker-Wouldn't the Warren County safety board be involved? Attorney Dusek-I guess Jim has checked into that and they do not have time to do it. Executive Director Martin-The County Board of Public Safety is going to look to their highway Dept. for input. Councilman Tucker-We had the problem over on Peggy Ann Road and it was the Warren County Highway Safety Committee that sent us back a letter stating that the three way stop signs would not take care of the problem, now I am sure that they can look at these intersections that he is talking about and determine what has got to be done there. Supervisor Brandt-I do not know the answer we do not have a Town engineer per sa but that's, when you are talking Highway design it is a place where we could stand some engineering help. We will address but maybe not right away. As far as I am concerned the upper end of that road ought to have restrictions on access to it, because I think you are setting up an accident. Mr. Salvadore-And you are responsible for that because that is your road, it is a Town road it intersects Route 9L. Supervisor Brandt-That is what, first of all Mr. Naylor's job is, go look at it and make recommendation I think, if he feels it is safe he is the Highway Supt. Mr. Salvadore-Is that his responsibility? Supervisor Brandt-I don't know under the law what governs here. Attorney Dusek-Paul Naylor's responsibility as I understand it is to maintain and keep the roads in good repair, he has jurisdiction over the road as far as obstacles and things like that go but I do not know that he would really be the one that would recommend signage and stuff for roads. Councilman Tucker-I know he doesn't it is the Warren County safety Board that does. Councilman Monahan-Other times Mike, what we done when we have had some problems like this with some of these roads and we had one right up the road here it has been case of getting together Paul Naylor, Leon Steves and Tom Yarmowitz ofRist Frost and looking for a design for intersections and etc. and looking at it from a safety site distances from an engineering stand point between the three of them they usually work out a pretty good solution. Supervisor Brandt-Is that legally the domain of the Town Board or legally the domain of the Highway Supt.? Attorney Dusek-As far as retaining a traffic engineer it seems to me that it would be up the Town Board. Councilman Goetz-Jim you are going to go to the Warren County Traffic Board? Executive Director Martin-Yes I can do that. Mr. Salvadore-Getting the assistance of Warren County is almost impossible... This road will be open to the public, all of us equal, the other thing it is used by the No. Qsby. Fire Dept. in which to draft water from the Lake, they have to have free access that is to all of our benefit, that is why you need to sit down and get all ramifications of this thing together and study its impact. The Town has been collecting Chips money on that road since 1962 and I do not know if you have ever plowed it you have ever paved it ever maintained it, ever did anything to it, so then the money is there. Mr. DeMars-I live on Big Boom Road-Mr. Tucker's Ward IV area...Do you have any correspondence at all for us as far as the Big Boom Road Homeowners Association on the location of the State house? Supervisor Brandt-We have no correspondence that I know of from the State of New York concerning that proposed home as a site for the Wilton relocation program. Mr. DeMars-Has the Town made any capital expenditures in that area within the last thirty days? Councilman Tucker-We paved the road. Arberger Drive Mr. DeMars-Is the house located on Arberger Drive? Councilman Tucker-Yes. Mr. DeMars-Why would that be, Arberger Drive was in perfect condition? Councilman Tucker-It was? We had four trucks get stuck last winter at the ... Mr. DeMars-Over the hill, down by the river which has a weak bank it has nothing to do with the paving of the top of the road. Supervisor Brandt-The Town Board went as a Board with the Highway Supt. on all our roads and at the consensus of the Town Board was that was a road that needed to be paved. Mr. DeMars-Do you have a list of the other roads that are going to be paved. Supervisor Brandt -Yes. Mr. DeMars-Does Mr. Naylor have a list that he can furnish the public? Supervisor Brandt -Yes. Mr. DeMars-On that list does it include the extension of Big Boom Road down into possibly where the Rest Stop area is? Supervisor Brandt-I do not think so, no. Mr. DeMars-No capital expenses will be spent within that area for? Councilman Tucker-Not this year. Supervisor Brandt-I would have to look at the list but, I we have it Ward by Ward and we have two list, one with the money that we have now and the other one is a list that if the Chips money the State is replenishing what we would do. Mr. DeMars-If it is a Ward by Ward breakdown, is this breakdown available for the public to look at to see where our tax monies are being spent? Supervisor Brandt -Yes. They will probably see it in the field pretty fast here. Mr. DeMars-Was it held up because of the situation on the bonding etc. Supervisor Brandt-The Chips money, that's one of the lists.. Mr. DeMars-So Mr. Donohue has not informed this Board or anybody what so ever about the location of a State home on that road? Supervisor Brandt-There has been no more correspondence other than what you know of. Mr. DeMars-The last correspondence was meeting number 53 which was dated July 19, 1993 which I addressed so within this months time nothing has transpired. Supervisor Brandt-Not to my knowledge. Mr. DeMars- I will as the legal end of it an Article 78 how long do we have time for processing once we feel that our rights are being crossed? What is the length of an Article 78? Can it be challenged at any time? Attorney Dusek-A lot of it depends the particular decision and the facts and typically you can have anywhere from 30 days to 4 months. Councilman Monahan-This Board has made no decision, that is a State decision we are not involved in it. It is the State's decision what house they are going to buy. Mr. DeMars-Oh, this is the State's decision? We have no input, you have no input in it. Councilman Monahan-We have had input giving neighborhood concerns but they told us after that first round of public hearings they did not have to do any more public hearings they had met their commitments. Mr. DeMars-Do you feel comfortable with that type of dictation, you are a governing body you govern a lot of people. Councilman Monahan-The law is what it is and there are certain things under the mental health law that gives the State certain rights. Mr. DeMars-In otherwords what the site committee recommends to you, you go along with and that is the bottom line. Supervisor Brandt-I do not think the site committee recommends I think the site committee simply is an interface with the people from the State and the State informs us of a site, the site committee reviews it and informs the public, that is about all they do. They do not pass judgement of whether it is a good site of not they simply, they look at the whole thing and inform the public of what is going on, inform the board of what is going on in the past when some members of the public did not like certain part they discussed that what they heard with the State representatives and certain alterations might have been made I think, from those discussions but the Town Board was not involved in that. I do not think they made any recommendations except pass communications back and forth to try and resolve issues quietly if they could be resolved. Mr. DeMars-Have you given the information to them which our Homeowners Association brought up to you on the location of this home in relation to the river, we have already had two serious ...it is terrible. Councilman Goetz- I verbally did after you... Mr. DeMars-You did not give him anything in writing so that you would have something to say later on if you have any recourse action? Councilman Goetz-First of all anything that you said would be in the minutes of the meeting so there would be a written report. Mr. DeMars-Just to protect the Town, is what I am saying. It is within a 1000 feet of that river, the river flows very fast there, I do not know what the ratio is of people vs staff but what I gathered from the last two accidents, I do not think the ratio is very good. I think we are really looking at an accident there that is going to happen we have brought it before I did not get to speak with Dan Danahue on it I spoke with a representative that heads the site committee, he said he would put an addendum in to the affect and that was it, I do not know whether you have heard anything on it. Councilman Goetz-Are you speaking about Mr. McNaulty? Mr. DeMars-Yes. Councilman Goetz-From my experience anything that he says he is going to do he does but maybe you can check back with him. Mr. DeMars-Someone has a right to an answer, we are not really getting any answer. Supervisor Brandt-Neither are we. Mr. DeMars-That sets me up tight against the State any State mandated program or whatever they are doing it feels that.. Supervisor Brandt-They seem to be moving on Sweet Road and that came up much later than the one on Arberger Drive. Mr. DeMars-But you are not hearing that much about it. Supervisor Brandt-We are. Mr. DeMars-The problem on Sweet Road might come up, terrible traffic it is a cut through ... Supervisor Brandt-The people there are arguing that just like you are arguing at this site. Mr. DeMars-This is right by the River Mike, I think you should address it. Supervisor Brandt-As far as I know the State seems to be moving on Sweet Road but they do not seem to be moving anywhere else, that is my observation, I do not know, I do not remember exactly the track record. Councilman Tucker-I think it should be pointed out when we had the first meeting with Mr. Donohue there was a forty day time limit and the only reason this thing is stretched out to this point is the State ran out of money and that is why our committee was established and allowed to work on this because they ran out of money so they had the time to work on it, otherwise it would have been all settled long ago. Mr. DeMars-At that particular house? Councilman Tucker-All of them. All four houses in the Town would have had settled long ago. Mr. DeMars-Well if the State at this particular time is running out of money. Councilman Tucker-Not at this particular time, they got money now, they had run out of money. Mr. DeMars-We are in trouble down the line. I guess I have to address you Mr. Tucker because you are knowledgeable of our particular Ward area, there has been some house building or whatever down by the rest stop plus there has been a big pile of dirt, I do not know who put the pile of dirt across the road from the rest stop could you bring us to date on that? Councilman Tucker-Finch Pruyn put it across there and they own the property. Mr. DeMars-I assume the Board took a walk to make a survey of this home location to look at it before you made your judgement which in turn gets sent to the State. Supervisor Brandt-We don't make that judgement and we do not send it to the State you are implying some things that... Mr. DeMars-The committee does? Supervisor Brandt-The committee may have I do not know. Mr. DeMars-We as a neighborhood group which I have to say we are still intact as a neighborhood group which Mr. Tucker said a lot of them have dissolved but we are still there and I feel that the only way we are going to get recognition from this Board is to be there and ask the questions, especially on this house it is a very bad location. Councilman Tucker-On this particular house you are going to have to get ahold ofMr. Donohue if you want your questions answered. Because we do not get them any quicker than you get them. Councilman Monahan-We do not have any standing in the whole procedure, they just notify us and that is it. Mr. DeMars-It is in the record that you have no standing and that is it I have to get it from Mr. Donohue then. Thank you. Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else... Open forum closed. RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 462, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury moves into Executive Session to discuss a personnel matter. Duly adopted this 16th day of August, 1993 by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT: Mr. Caimano On motion the meeting was adjourned. Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury