2007-07-09 SP MTG30
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-09-2007 MTG. #30
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. #30
JULY 9, 2007 RES. 326
6:30 p.m.
TOWN BOARD MEMBERS
SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC
COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR
COUNCILMAN RICHARD SANFORD
COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH
COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER-Absent
TOWN OFFICIALS
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES DAVE HATIN
SR. PLANNER STU BAKER
ZONING ADMINISTRATOR CRAIG BROWN
Supervisor Stec-Called the meeting to order, Councilman Sanford is here.
Tim Brewer is on vacation and will not be here tonight, Councilman Boor called and said
he will be a little late and not to wait for him and Councilman Strough is not present as of
yet.
1.0COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT UPDATE
Zoning Administrator Craig Brown-
1.Spoke about perpetual garage sales – showed memo’s from
Counsel and Town Board Minutes
2.Wet land issues Chapter 94
Councilman Sanford-Making the maps a resource rather a defining factor. When you
make a determination on a specific project or application and how does it carry forward
so that forever there is no need for an application have additional determinations, that
was one thing that was talked about. Will speak on judgment issues.
Supervisor Stec-Will go ahead with a local law to clean it up.
Councilman Sanford-Requested to be copied on important determinations made by the
Zoning Administrator
GARAGE SALE
Supervisor Stec-How can we restrict perpetual garage sales, what are your suggestions?
Administrator Brown-How tight of a loop do you want to draw, and then a no fee
permitting process, if you register more than X number of times we will tell you, you
can’t do it.
Director Hatin-Only sell items that you own.
Administrator Brown-That will only address vehicles, not on items in your driveway.
MISCITEMS
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Supervisor Stec- You questioned if Paragon has the expertise to do Telecommunications
or not? We can certainly ask.
Administrator Brown-Questioned fees on engineering reviews. MS 4 Report that was
adopted, Bruce and Stuart had some conversations; there are some points in there that
need to be clarified and revised. Spoke to Matt Fuller on how to revise the report he will
find out what the process is to make changes in the report.
SIDEWALKS
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Councilman Sanford-What we need to do, we need to have a process in place, the
Comprehensive Land Use Plan encourages sidewalks, in the more rural areas it would be
a nightmare and an incredible expense, I am a little bit resistant to go in that direction.
When we have them in place we have to go do something with it. Spoke about the
condition of sidewalks on Foster Avenue. On Glenwood Avenue, I think future planning
would suggest that the area should have sidewalks. We would have to bid it out.
Supervisor Stec-Noted he will speak to the Highway Supt. about working up the specs for
sidewalks.
Councilman Sanford-Also Glenwood and Foster and have Mike give us his opinion on
Glenwood.
MS-4 REPORT
Administrator Brown-Re: MS 4 One of the things that is required in the year five is post
construction inspections and on going annual inspections of the properties after they are
closed out. That means that this years twenty site plans, last year twenty site plans, next
years twenty site plans the number is going to keep growing, the number of inspections
that we have to do. We are required to do that, so that is either going to start a big back
log of inspections that we have to do on top of on going active site inspection and follow
ups or I have a call into Dave Wick at Warren County Soil and Water I think they do that,
they offer that service. We need to think about how we are going to get that done.
Councilman Strough-Questioned if Building and Codes could assist? Would we hire
somebody?
Administrator Brown-I do not know. It is part of the new Zoning Code.
Councilman Boor-One of the ways to make the annual inspections easier to do is to have
some really standardization as to how we deal with storm water.
Administrator Brown-That is an ideal approach; however each design is going to be
unique. I did ask Matt what we can do and put in the code to make the applicant and
their project engineer be required to give us annual inspections every year, so now we
take the annual inspection out and do a spot check on the things that look questionable on
the application and put it back on them, it is their project, and we just follow up on it. In
the new code there is a maintenance agreement that our Planning Board will be requiring
applicants to sign up to. Right now we do not have the program nor the man power to go
out on the hundreds of site plans that have been approved.
Councilman Boor-I would like to have the applicants engineer pick up on these things.
Administrator Brown-The importance to all of this is ultimately what happens is, there
are reporting processes that we have to do it is likely that the state in the near future will
be doing spot checks.
Councilman Strough-We are treated as a region, which includes Glens Falls and South
Glens Falls, and Hudson Falls, Queensbury may do it’s maintenance and inspections but
do they expect it to be done regionally? Maybe we should look at this as a regional thing.
Administrator Brown-Certainly there is a benefit for the resources for it that way.
Everyone pitch in and hire a consultant to do these inspections. The liability does come
back to us, it needs to be looked at very soon. We have a year but it will go fast.
Councilman Strough-You are going to look into amending that and we will do whatever
we have to do.
MISC. ITEMS
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-09-2007 MTG. #30
Director of Building and Codes-We have a house on Rainbow Trail and absentee owner,
she signed for the letter but nothing has happened we are still getting complaints on it,
need to secure the property, noted that there is an in ground pool, the fence is haphazard.
Need Court order to go on the property and the other issue is the property is not
maintained, do you want to have ground crew mow the lawn and how far to you want to
go with this?
Councilman Boor-What is the status of the property and how long has it been vacant.
Director Hatin-Will have to research at the County and it has been vacant for at least two
months. Misquotes issue is one of the neighbors complaints.
Supervisor Stec-Requested that Mr. Hatin work with the Attorneys regarding this site.
Councilman Strough-I suggested that we should adopt some changes to our Zoning Code
and not wait for the whole thing, especially when it refers to CEA’s. If you input on that
feel free to bring it forward.
Administrator Brown-If you want to limit the development on lake front properties in
water front residential zones I think you are on the right track there, you want tight
definitions on what counts as floor area ratio, is that any basement, any basement over
five feet in height, any attics over five feet in height or pick a number?
Councilman Strough-In the new code we address this and I think we can slip that right in
here. If it has a window over a certain size or outside access or a certain exposure it is
going to be considered potentially living area. If it was completely sealed with no outside
access or no sizeable windows then it is going to be unusable as far as residential.
Changing the F.A.R.it is currently .22 and we just maybe solving the size of the building
on these particular lots can be solved by counting the basement.
Administrator Brown-The other factor is what counts in lot calculation. If I have a tenth
of an acre on the lake side and two on the other side of the road and they are joined as
one parcel now my floor area ratio is for 2.1 acres and I put all that floor area in this
house …
Councilman Strough-In the new zoning code I suggested defining the intent of F.A.R.,the
intent being to limit the size of the structure on a given particular lot, lots that are
contiguous and under the same ownership and not across the road. I will start working on
this.
Supervisor Stec-That floor area ratio is one that we have struggled with for years and as
far as impact on the lake goes that is probably one of the bigger items, you fix that and
you are fixing a lot of problems.
Administrator Brown-Disc. Final grade, suggested the code read original grade or prior to
construction.
Councilman Boor-Disc. Definition of new questioned why we are not using the State
definition?
Sr. Planner Baker- 1. Will be hearing announcement of the 2007 Home Grant
Application as early as by August.
ARBI/EEC ACTIVITIES UPDATE
Supervisor Stec-There is one Business Incubator Agreement that you are going to need
our consideration on, also we have a vacancy from a Town representative on the
Incubator Board.
Mr. Jeff Farley – I have been four months as the Executive Director of the Incubator.
Spoke on the history of the Incubator program.
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Mr. Peter Wohl-The primary purpose of the Incubator is to create jobs. In operation for
seven years.
Councilman Boor-The Town has given two hundred and seventy thousand and my
concern is philosophically, I think Incubators are great but I am familiar having driven by
the building for several years and I know Queensbury has put a lot of money into this and
nothing on the exterior has changed in that building and I suspect that offices and
typewriters and computers aren’t located within and when I look at the sheets I do not see
much money left and yet I see absolutely nothing that has happened to that building.
Mr. Farley-The building was only purchased a year and a half ago.
Councilman Sanford-Spoke on the agreement that was dated November of 2005.
Out of the one point two five million we are looking at a balance sheet at the end of 2006
for the Incubator itself showing total assets of forty nine thousand five eighty one with
total liabilities of forty seven thousand three thirty one with an equity of two thousand
two hundred and forty nine dollars. The building itself is on the financial statement of
the corporation but under the Greater Glens Falls LDC. According to the contract every
party to this agreement is due to receive a current operating and capital budget every
year, as a Board Member I have seen nothing. The service contribution of three hundred
and fifty thousand dollars I would be interested in knowing how they are accounted for. .
Page 5 of the agreement it references Bank accounts, Noted he had not received any
statements on these account. Did the money travel into this account as the contract
specifies, if it did what I am reading then based on the Dec. 31, ’06 balance sheet you
have thirty one thousand dollars in an account that at one time had nine hundred
thousand. No clients, building has not been renovated, nine hundred thousand dollars is
down to thirty one thousand and as of your in house statements as of May 31, ’07 it is
down to twenty three thousand seven hundred and sixty seven dollars, subtract that from
the nine hundred thousand and please tie that out for me. Let me know where eight
hundred and seventy thousand dollars has gone over a two year period of time. Who was
the building purchased from? What will the proposed selling price be down the road?
Confirm what the building cost. What are the bench marks that you will measure success
or failure in. What will be the future financial needs of the Incubator. I am looking
forward to the future and we have to make a decision as to whether or not we feel the
taxpayers are going to be served well through the perpetuation of this program.
Mr. Farley-This is a business, it is on a shoe string budget. It is only a matter of time
when credibility comes alive.
Mr. Peter Wohl-ARBI the program is funded by one source which is the County, twenty
five thousand the first year, seventy five thousand the second and fifty thousand for the
next three years. That goes to salaries, marketing and building up the program. In
addition to that ACC gets into the service contribution was supposed to provide a
hundred and twenty five thousand dollars plus twenty five thousand a year in support to
develop the programs. All the other contributions that were received through this
agreement were to go towards the foundation of the facility, which was the responsibility
of the Greater Glens Falls Local Development Corp. which is not ARBI.
The reason why you see a forty thousand dollar balance or thirty thousand dollar balance
is because none of the funds the nine hundred thousand actually a portion of the two
hundred and fifty thousand that the County gave to the program everything else goes to
the LDC it will never be reflected on the ARBI’s program operating budget.
Councilman Sanford-Page 5 the contract is not being adhered to or it was incorrectly
stated. In the contract it states all the funds contributed by the entities is to go into this
bank account, maybe they are referencing the bank account at the Greater Glens Falls.
Mr. Wohl-That is where they are.
Councilman Sanford-I will need the copies of the bank account.
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-09-2007 MTG. #30
Mr. Wohl-Jeff started four months ago I started in 2006. Spoke on the purchase of the
Incubator building. The building was purchased in 2005 as part of the agreement it called
for the removal and storage of whatever, it was a warehouse for ABC Kitchen Supplies.
Initial purchase price two hundred thousand + the cost of moving equipment and storage
for up to a year was an addition at a hundred and something thousand dollars. Going into
the purchase of the facility there was an agreement with this Board as well as other
Boards to apply for federal funds for the renovation of the facility. The proposal was
written for one point one million dollars which would assume a local match. With
respect to the local match we received cash contributions from everyone in the agreement
except for Warren Co. which gives it on an annual basis.
Mr. Farley-Spoke on the initial study in 2000. Initially there was some agreement that
everybody was going to put $25,000 to get through the initial study period. Things
happened and people changed and the project was going forward and now you have a
Corporate Board and they are trying for agreements from the City and Town. The City
LDC was deemed to be the lead agent to purchase the building, because they could apply
for grants. The LDC established a separate account totally from all other LDC funds.
Mr. Wohl-Noted the funds from the County none of that money can be used for the
building purposes. Noted three hundred and twenty five thousand dollars in
environmental work was necessary to bring building up to code of that eighty percent will
be reimbursed.
Discussion held in regard to the sale of the building.
Mr. Wohl-Explained the reason why the building is too small, needed square footage is
38,000. A grant was applied for by EDA for 1.1 million with a match of six hundred and
fifty thousand in funds, of that there was money spent for purchasing the building and
moving the equipment, you now find our self with about one point three million estimates
come in from the architect first estimate at 3.8. When you go for an EDA grant they have
a lien on the building for twenty years. On going operations and maintenance in the best
scenario an operating deficit of fifty to a hundred thousand dollars per year to run the
program and the building.
Mr. Farley-We can make an Incubator work in that facility starting out with two floors of
tenants. There are three prongs of the incubator approach going to the point of no free
money, Corporate Sponsorship is good for economic development in this area the
companies can sponsor programs maybe even name the building who knows, I have to
come up with revenue sources going after the non incubator clients which we will do, I
am going into recruiting sources and we can recruit for incubators and make money, I am
going after grants so I do see in my vision in a three year period putting history aside we
will be self sustaining. We have a plan, we have a great board and we have a vision and
we have a history, we can work forward together on, am convinced this is going to be a
great program.
Mr. Wohl-Spoke on the Public Private Partnership option.
Councilman Sanford-Requested that the information as requested from tonight’s meeting
be given to the Board Members for their review before any action is taken by the Board.
Supervisor Stec-Noted if the Board is satisfied with the information a resolution may be
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forthcoming at the August 6 meeting.
Councilman Strough-What was the environmental issue with the building?
Mr. Wohl-Underground tanks and windows to be restored as it is an historic building and
asbestos laden and asbestos in the piping…
Councilman Strough-Need to see the details of Plan B. Are we going to be able to lease
out the space if we sell it to a particular owner and at what cost? Could we go to the
CNA Bldg. and achieve something cheaper? Maybe this building just wasn’t for us from
the get go.
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Mr. Foley-We have a vision and a mission plan that we will forward to the Board.
Mr. Wohl-In closing I feel this is a good meeting, we can now go forward…
Discussion-on full time Member of the Board
3.0 BUS STOP REQUEST FROM GGTA-Scott Sopczyk and Todd Shimkus
Representative of GGTA- Route 9 Corridor there is a desire for having some bus stops,
to give people a place when it rains, and make it more efficient busses and trolleys to stop
in designated areas and from the chambers perspective it sends a message that this
community is encouraging public transportation and we want you to use it. One of the
struggles we have is we need someone to take the lead the point of contacting the
property owners and work with that.
Councilman Boor-Are these typically in the easement portion?
Representative of GGTA-It could be either way. It has to be five feet back off the curb to
allow passage that usually gets you into private property.
Councilman Sanford-What is the rate of growth of rider ship?
Representative of GGTA-We have three different services, Fame service which is for
persons of disabilities having a five to ten percent growth rate. The regular busses have
been closer more flat, two to three percent over the last year. We carry three hundred
thousand passengers a year. The trolleys have been growing, last year they grew fifteen
percent.
Councilman Sanford-Do you have stops at the Senior Housing?
Representative of GGTA-Yes. Our regular services we instituted a regular Saturday
shopper service instead of going out to the road we go in and pick them up. Go to the
Cedars, and the Glen upon request, Bay Bridge we do not go in there currently. We do
Waverly Place on request. The growth of the Bay Street Corridor the original schedule
was around the ACC classes now with the medical offices and the housing we are
looking seriously at more frequent service. About five years ago we purchased a number
of shelters the Village of Lake George took two, we have four more, the Great Escape as
a part of the deal for the pedestrian bridge they took two, we have been trying to get them
installed the pad is poured on both sides of the road.
Councilman Boor-Can we assume advertising off sets costs?
Representative of GGTA-No. If it was allow it would probably off set maintenance.
Spoke abut the brick bus shelter at Walmart.
Councilman Strough-Noted it is important to have an attractive bus stop shelter.
Councilman Boor-What exactly do you want from the Town Board?
Representative of GGTA-For the endorsement for the concept that there is value to do
this.
Councilman Boor-I do not think that is a problem.
Councilman Boor-Questioned who would initiate contacting the property owners seeking
a place for a shelter.
Representative of GGTA-Stu and I had a conversation that it could be as simple as a
letter from the Town Board to the property owners along the stretch that you want to put
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these things in and you would like to work with them and it is first come first serve if
somebody steps up.
Councilman Boor-From a logistic standpoint aren’t there going to be better places than
other and what happens if the one that has the stand alone that no one wants to go to says
give me the bus stop.
Representative of GGTA-These are areas based on volume if another property came
along and said I want one, as long as you pay for it we can put it.
Supervisor Stec-Who would purchase the shelter?
Representative of GGTA-We have with time there is Federal Assistance available where
we can purchase the shelters, we have two in the garage right now waiting for a home.
Supervisor Stec-If we found a home we could tell them hey guess what it will not cost
you anything?
Representative of GGTA-yes.
Supervisor Stec-I think it is safe to say the Board will not hesitate a second to have me
write a letter to each of these property owners, saying we see there is value here we know
the trolley and the bus stops there frequently we would like to sit down with you and
work out the details.
Councilman Strough-Questioned the logistic issue on placement of the bus stops, there
are probably some ideal locations where these things ought to go. If we targeted the ideal
and talk to those owners.
Representative of GGTA– French Mt. Commons and Adirondack Outlet Mall in close
proximity to where the cross walks is that would be a location.
Supervisor Stec-Noted he will call Great Escape and find out the status of the bus stop,
shelter.
Representative of GGTA-Noted a number of new hotel projects along this corridor if we
could entice the visitors that are staying in the hotels to use this transportation system we
all would benefit. If you have bed tax monies available through the Town to fund some
of the installations of these devices that would be a reasonable.
Councilman Boor-Questioned the cost of a shelter.
Representative of GGTA-A basic shelter is approximately $2,000. There is an internet
service that will set up a route structure for example a hotel identifies the origin and
destination they can call up the location as an origin it will list the bus schedule. It will
tell options, times, this is where you wait, you set it up on that shelter it would fit in very
well to this kind of scheme and make it more user friendly.
Supervisor Stec-I think we all agree these are locations that make sense it is a matter of
can be get the property owners to see that wisdom and work with us.
Councilman Sanford-More important than this to me is to get people to think in terms of
mass transportation it is just not in the mind set of people who live around here. Would
like to see a campaign to get more people riding those busses.
Representative GGTA-Noted the bus service is used for both the Quaker and Broad
Street Hanneford, if you go to Hanneford they give them two tokens one for their trip
back home and one to come back to Hanneford. Spoke about extending hours at night to
eleven in the Aviation Road area, Upper Glen Street area, the problem we have is that
you have to walk to the road, because it is as night we would pull into either the Plaza
with the shoppers or there might be an employment type base so people do not have to
walk out to Route 9 in the winter or in the dark.
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Supervisor Stec-Ask Stu to make note that the Planning Board should be looking at bus
shelters along with the site plan issues.
4.0 Community Development Vacant Positions.
Supervisor Stec-Noted he felt the Land use Planner position should be filled first.
Sr, Planner Baker-The most immediate position to be filled would be the Land Use
Planner.
Supervisor Stec-Noted there is a list of those interested in the position, Sr. Planner Baker
has given the Board his list of those he would like considered, perhaps the Board should
e-mail rank the list one through five. Lets see from the lists if there are three that
everyone has on their list, then in that case we will interview those three.
MISC. ITEMS
MEALS ON WHEELS ISSUE
Supervisor Stec-Reviewed the situation for the Board Members, they are looking for the
Town to sponsor the employment.
Councilman Boor-Who is paying workers compensation, is the town on the hook for
that?
Supervisor Stec-It is the forty seven hundred which is the salary portion, they would be a
part time employee of either the Town or the City. The Cedars opens their facility to
meals on wheels. I will tell Mark and the Mayor that we are supportive of the split and
we will leave it to Mark and Mayor’s Attorney to put an agreement together.
Town Board Agreed to the proposal.
LITTLE LEAGUE
Supervisor Stec-The Little League is sponsoring the New York State Championship for, I
think, thirteen year olds, eight teams, one happens to be a Queensbury Team. Most of
the teams will be an overnight stay away. They are asking us for one thousand
dollars…will get the letter of request to the Town Board Members.
SEMI TRUCK PARKING
Councilman Strough-Prohibit semi truck parking in residential areas, are we going to deal
with that?
Supervisor Stec-I thought we had dealt with that issue a year or two ago.
Councilman Sanford-I don’t think tractor trailers belong in residential neighborhoods.
Supervisor Stec-This issue has been before us and we did take some action in the past.
WINCREST LIGHTING
Councilman Strough-Wincrest Drive median lighting …
Supervisor Stec-I told them to demonstrate support from the neighborhood, give us a
petition. And we would like to see a picture of what is being proposed.
Councilman Boor-Who installs them
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Supervisor Stec-That would be put out to bid, it is in the lighting district.
Councilman Sanford-I want to see what the neighbors say.
BLIND ROCK
Councilman Strough-Questioned when the letter would be sent out?
Supervisor Stec-Will send out the letter tomorrow.
POWER POINT PRESENTATION
Councilman Strough-Will have a power point presentation at a Town Board Meeting in
August on the History of Blind Rock.
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING TOWN BOARD MEETING
RESOLUTION NO. 326. 2007
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Richard Sanford
RESOLVED,
that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its
Special Town Board Meeting.
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Duly adopted this 9 day of July, 2007 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec
NOES: None
ABSENT: Mr. Brewer
Respectfully submitted,
Miss Darleen M. Dougher
Town Clerk-Queensbury