2007-07-23 SP MTG33
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. #33
JULY 23, 2007 RES. 343-346
6:30 p.m.
TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC
COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR
COUNCILMAN RICHARD SANFORD
COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH
COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER
TOWN OFFICIALS
SR. PLANNER STU BAKER
WATER SUPERINTENDENT BRUCE OSTRANDER
DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES DAVE HATIN
APPRAISER TED BIGELOW
Supervisor Stec-Opened the Meeting.
RESOLUTIONS:
RESOLUTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING CONCERNING
PROPOSED WITHDRAWAL FROM CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT
PLAN RESERVE FUND #64 FOR IMPROVEMENTS AT
RIDGE/JENKINSVILLE PARK
RESOLUTION NO.: 343. 2007
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tm Brewer
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board previously established a Capital
Improvement Plan Reserve Fund #64 (Fund #64) for future Town project developments,
and
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 416,2003 the Town Board authorized
establishment of Capital Project Fund #138 to fund expenses associated with parking lot
improvements, design and expansion of softball fields and replacement of fencing at the
Ridge/Jenkinsville Park and the Town Board authorized funding for such Capital Project
Fund #138 in the amount of $95,670 and such funds were transferred into such Fund #138
from Capital Improvement Plan Reserve Fund #64, and
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 210,2004 the Queensbury Town Board authorized
a supplemental Ridge/Jenkinsville Park Project and additional expenditures in the amount of
$413,266 and funds were transferred from Capital Improvement Plan Reserve Fund #64 to
Fund #138 to fund such supplemental Project, and
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 99,2007, the Queensbury Town Board authorized
the supplemental Ridge/Jenkinsville Park Project (Project) and expenditures for such work
in the amount of $976,000, with the proposed improvements to the Ridge/Jenkinsville Park
as follows:
1.creation of three (3) multi-use (soccer, lacrosse, field hockey, etc.,) irrigated,
athletic fields;
2.construction of a field house containing bathrooms, irrigation
equipment/controls and storage space for maintenance equipment and
ancillary field gear (goal netting, flags, signage, etc.,);
3.construction of a paved access road and paved parking;
4.construction of walkways, fencing and landscaping; and
5.professional services for all of the above;
and
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 278,2007, the Town Board authorized engagement
of James H. Maloy, Inc. (Maloy) to provide site work/general construction services
concerning the athletic field improvements relating to this Project for an amount not to
exceed $659,000, and
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Recreation Commission has requested the completion
of additional site work by Change Order No.: 1 as follows:
?
One (1) additional athletic field (including irrigation): $96,400.00
?
Bid Alternate #1 (landscaping plan): $17,000.00
?
Bid Alternate #2 (finish coat paving) $18,000.00
and
WHEREAS, the total amount of such proposed Change Order No.: 1 totals
$131,400.00, and
WHEREAS, the Town’s Director of Parks and Recreation and the Project Architect,
Jim Miller, have reviewed the costs of the proposed Change Order No.: 1 and concur with
the Recreation Commission’s request, and
WHEREAS, adding an additional athletic field during the current Project, as
opposed to a future, stand-alone project, can be realized at a cost savings of approximately
forty-percent (40%) or $38,560.00, and
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33
WHEREAS, the new, anticipated Project costs, including the proposed Change
Order No.: 1, total $901,183.00 or nearly $75,000.00 below the $976,000.00 Project
amount funded by the Town Board in accordance with Resolution No.: 99,2007, and
WHEREAS, the Director of Parks and Recreation has recommended that the Town
Board authorize Change Order No.: 1 in the amount of $131,400.00, bringing the total
contract amount for Maloy to $790,400.00, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to authorize such Change Order and the
withdrawal and expenditure of moneys from Fund #64 in the amount of $790,400.00 to
Maloy,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board shall meet and hold a public hearing
at the Queensbury Activities Center, 742 Bay Road, Queensbury at 7:00 p.m. on Monday,
th
August 6, 2007 to hear all interested persons and take any necessary action provided by
law concerning the proposed Change Order No.: 1 in the amount of $131,400.00 for James
H. Maloy, Inc., for improvements at the Ridge/Jenkinsville Park, and as described in the
preambles of this Resolution, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Queensbury
Town Clerk to publish and post a Notice of Public Hearing concerning the proposed Capital
Project in the manner provided by law.
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Duly adopted this 6 day of August, 2007, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec
NOES : None
ABSENT : None
Discussion held before vote: Councilman Sanford-When we first approved this the
understanding was that they would do three fields and we would see if that was
satisfactory or whether or not we needed to go further than that and that we would return
any monies that if it came in lower than the Nine Hundred and Seventy Four Thousand or
so. I am not opposed to having a public hearing but that is still the plan that I think
makes best sense rather than to expend the additional money. In addition there are other
parks that are in need of certain improvements and I am getting a lot of I guess resistance
might be the right way to phrase it, especially on the park in South Q which would
probably be all of about a one or two thousand dollar situation here. If it makes sense to
have the public hearing so that we have the benefit of whatever additional input that may
take place from the public that is fine, although I just want to let you know that I maybe
alone on this one but I am not necessarily all encouraged to add that additional fourth
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33
field at the additional cost at this time. So, we can have the public hearing and I guess we
can have the discussion at the regular meeting but I just wanted to let you in on that. To
me it makes sense to go three fields to see how they are utilized and see what the need is
before we went ahead with the fourth field. Vote taken
Supervisor Stec-Regarding the next resolution Town Counsel would like to speak to the
Board in Executive Session on this.
DISCUSSION: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT UPDATE
DIRECTOR HATIN
Councilman Boor-Mr. Hilton has placed on our maps the Lake George CEA. Requested
that a copy of this map go to all the Planning Board Members.
Councilman Strough-Re: CEA requested that Mr.Hatin review his work before it is
finished and see if there are any problems with interpretation.
Director Hatin-The only thing I have seen so far is the definition of a lot, you say non
contagious, issues like that are not going to solve the lot across the street. I would
define it as the green space between the road and the lake.
Councilman Strough-I will add that to it. I think we are going to end up with a whole
new section of 179 entitled CEA. It will deal with vegetation protection buffer standard
it will deal with shore line clearing standards it will deal with the definition of a CEA, it
will deal with the definition of where does the beginning of a measurement take place if
we are talking about lake side residences. In Lake George it is the high mean model
mark but for other places I found a definition from Wisconsin, requested that the Board
look at that definition.
Councilman Boor-There was at least on species that was being recommended that is in
trouble right now, the American Beech, I do not know if we should recommend planting
those if they are not going to live very long.
Councilman Strough-Will research that. If we are going to have different standards in
CEA’s for septic systems and storm water it almost requires a whole section unto itself.
SR. PLANNER BAKER
1.Land Use Planner Candidates
2.Draft Zoning Code
Sr. Planner Baker-On the Lane Use Planner Candidates, you have the top five list, who is
going to be on the interview committee and when can we start the interview process?
Councilman Boor-My recommendation was that I am not convinced that we need
anybody at this point in time. Where are we deficient?
Councilman Sanford-Requested to wait and speak to Craig Brown, I actually have similar
thoughts. I would support hiring the best possible candidate of the pool we have to draw
on rather than limit ourselves to a land use planner if we can get ourselves a Sr. Planner
and it is not a material difference in compensation and that would be ideal in terms of
potential future utilization of that employee. I think some of the candidates in that listing
probably could serve both capacities.
Sr. Planner Baker-The positions are very different and the applicants were aware of it.
Councilman Boor-I did not review the Sr. Planner on your recommendation.
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33
Councilman Sanford-Why couldn’t we have a hybrid situation where the whole universe
of related functions is divided up and that way we have the best of both worlds especially
if there is not a material difference.
Sr. Planner Baker-This conversation we should have had prior to advertising the position.
Councilman Boor-I would rather take more time and make a confident decision than rush.
I have yet to hear from you, Dave Hatin or Craig where we are deficient? If I know what
our deficiencies are then I know what to advertise for.
Sr. Planner Baker-The deficiencies are staffing for the Planning Board and Zoning Board.
Councilman Sanford-Why couldn’t a Sr. Planner do that?
Sr. Planner Baker-I can do that and Craig can do the Zoning Board but that would be less
time that we have for other work. This Board especially when you are looking at the
Zoning Administration you have been crying out for more and better Zoning
Administration if you are going to have the Zoning Administrator spending ten hours or
more a week doing ZBA Business that is ten less hours that are going to be going into
Zoning Administration and enforcement.
Councilman Sanford-Regretfully it seems to me that people like John Strough steps to the
plate or in the case of the wetlands Chapter 94 I am stepping to the plate it doesn’t seem
to be that the ideas are generated necessarily from staff, Stu. When we found out there
were deficiencies in Chapter 94 they remained un-vocalized for a couple of years.
Councilman Boor-With the height and the septic and floor area ratio’s I still have not
gotten an answer this has been six weeks of asking questions.
Councilman Strough-I think what we need is the best qualified person, I do not care if it
is the title of a land use planner or sr. planner you saw the over lap in salaries was pretty
significant so if in that overlap and I saw somebody I really liked if we saw somebody we
really liked I do not care what you call them for a title lets hire them.
Sr. Planner Baker-From a Senior Planner perspective I have to point this out from the
candidates perspective, the starting for land use planner is lower than that of Sr. Planner,
the top end salary for land use planner is lower than that of Sr. Planner and that is what
the Sr. Planner would be looking at.
Councilman Boor-I was amazed at the number of candidates that were either in college or
just out of college, I did not see a lot of people with years of experience that might be
able to ask for a higher salary.
Councilman Strough-I think we should ask the top three choices and come in for an
interview.
Councilman Brewer-When you bring the top three in you can lay out what you want or
what you expect.
Supervisor Stec-What Stu is saying they need bodies at these board meetings or
something else is going to suffer.
Sr. Planner Baker-It is also working with applicants as well.
Councilman Sanford-When we get a list of three I would like the full board interview
them.
Supervisor Stec-Would have Stu, Craig and the five members of the Town Board do the
interviews. We need to get a new revised interview list to Stu if we have changes, will
have him e-mail the list to the Town Board. Next Monday night we will firm that up
with Craig Brown so a week from tomorrow we can be making phone calls for
interviews.
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33
Councilman Brewer-Take the best three candidates whether it is a Land use Planner or
Sr. Planner.
Sr. Planner Baker-Re: Draft Zoning Code The Planning Ordinance Review Committee
by resolution passed at their last meeting they agreed to recommend Articles I, 2, 5, 6, 9-
12, 12A, 12B, 13-17 and 19 Chapter A183 as well as the Subdivision Regs.
Councilman Boor-Chapter 183 in total?
Sr. Planner Baker-Yes in total, which you do not have in this packet. Tomorrow what you
will be receiving is Chapter 183 plus the work that the Committee had done to date on
Articles 3,4 and 7. They have not reviewed any changed to Article 8 that is landscaping.
I will give you two versions of 3,4 and 7 and I will also be printing out relevant sections
of the Committees minutes.
Discussion held regarding Saratoga Associates, a copy of the contract will be provided to
the Board.
Councilman Strough-I think that they will have to help us finish this up, one of the snags
was the Zoning on of the Route 9 and Quaker Road corridors they had mixed use an go
to’s and I convey the opinion and I think represents the community as well as most of the
members of this Board that, that is not an appropriate type of zone for Route 9 and
Quaker Road. We would rather see some kind of upgraded version of what we have now,
which is the definition of a Commercial Zone. I asked this Board to convey that to the
PORC Committee and that never happened. So, the PORC Committee was left hanging
with just me saying I believe the way it is but I am on my own because I did not get any
help.
Sr. Planner Baker-There were also committee concerns with so many other proposed
zoning districts.
Councilman Strough-Stu will identify the areas that need work, are you guys going to sit
down and help to write this code or do you want to hire Saratoga Associates or at least
finish their contract to finish writing this code?
Sr. Planner Baker-There have been some work done on those sections that, that
committee could not come to an agreement on and that is what I will forward to you
tomorrow.
DISCUSSION: GREAT ESCAPE SEWER BILL
Present-Jeff Fox, Chief Financial Officer for Theme Park and Hotel, Bob Culvert-Park
Operations, Tom Jarrett out Engineer, Don McCoy General Manager, Attorney John
Lemery
----ask for another name here…---
Representative of Great Escape -The district was sized to take up ten million gallons a
day from the Theme Park, the Theme Park at the same time buys sixty million gallons a
year water from the Town, the district position was that until all the metering goes into
effect you are going to be charged for the water intake until you can accurately meter
what the discharge was. The problem at the Great Escape is there are five miles of sewer
that have to be connected within that facility it is just not something that can be done over
night, the town has been willing to give us the extensions that we need to get the piping
in and there is still some left to go. We will not be in a position to have it all metered
until last year so we knew exactly what the discharge was, the discharge is under seven
million gallons a year, but this year it got billed again for sixty…
Councilman Brewer-How much under seven million?
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33
Representative of Great Escape -Six point four
Councilman Sanford-Without a meter how do you know that?
Representative of Great Escape -Because it was metered for this past season.
Wastewater Supt. Mike Shaw-Some of those numbers were based on not actual meter use
it was based on projections.
Representative of Great Escape -The Great Escape is not like every other taxpayers up
and down Route 9 in terms of hooking on, buying water from the town and discharging, it
buys an enormous amount of water from the Town and it is basically being charged that
same amount by way of a discharge. We have had these discussions with Mike Shaw for
some time he has been very decent about it and Mike made the comment if we give you
some sort of resolution here other people will be charged more, the question becomes
well is the Great Escape as a Queensbury taxpayer expected to subsidized everybody
else in the district? I would like to make it clear that we are not looking for any money
back, they are looking to have happen to have a credit issued against future sewer bills
until this is made up and until we are in the position where we are the same as every other
taxpayer.
Supt. Shaw-The resolution reads that they will be billed as if they were connected and
they are billed the same way as everybody along the corridor. Reviewed the history of
potential discharge from the Great Escape.
Representative of Great Escape-Is this a fair way to treat this taxpayer, this taxpayer is
not like Suttons on Route 9 or even any of the other customers along Route 9.
Councilman Boor-With the Gambles and the other businesses that are paying the full
amount and maybe are not connected they hire an attorney and say look it, it is equity and
it is fairness and I think that is the reason it is very difficult to do for you what you are
asking because we asked this of everyone of these individuals. Until you get the meter
you are going to be paying as if you are hooked up based on your usage. It is a question
of scale, you are right it is scale is why you guys are hurt. The principal of fairness is
because you guys are large shouldn’t mean that the guy is small doesn’t have the same
bargaining ability.
Representative of Great Escape-The meters are now in and we have determined that, that
is exactly what the usage is but you cannot treat this user like every other user on a
fairness basis. We are not talking about what the policy might be we are talking about
what is really fair here. Noted all the bills have been paid.
Representative of Great Escape-We were told by Mike that you have the ability to adjust
this bill and you have the ability to take into account what has been going on here with
this taxpayer.
Councilman Sanford-You are pointing to your scale and your size and saying look lets do
what is right here not what is consistent. The law as it stands now within this town is we
don’t really owe you a credit.
Councilman Boor-What do we say to Suttons, what do you say to Gambles, what do you
say to the Golf Cart what do you say to them when they are billed in the exact same
fashion that you were billed and then we rebate to you and then they say hey were is our
rebate.
Representative of Great Escape-I think what we say is the answer is that we have
speedies permits and we have permits that we know that the water from our water park
was not going to go into the sewer system and it was designed not to go into that system.
Councilman Sanford-You have approximations, you have estimates you have projections,
you do not have conclusive meter positive proof so any suggestion of relief that you are
talking about is an approximation.
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33
Representative of Great Escape-The calculations were done off of the ’06 actual numbers
’06 actual percentages the meters were in place in ’06 and we did calculations saying that
in ’06 the primary meter 10.5% of the water would be metered on our next years bill
based on what water was there this year. This was the first time we had a truly
measurable methodology.
Councilman Brewer-You give us your projections for ’08 and lets wait and see how close
they are and then we will compare them and make a decision.
Councilman Boor-What rebate are you looking at?
Representative of Great Escape-The ’07 bill was based on ’06 numbers.
Director Shaw-Noted the cut off for meter reading for ’08 is May of ’07. These are not
100% meter numbers on here you made some projection on there.
Representative of Great Escape-We now have substantiated this year with twelve months
of actual readings which shows we use less than the ten million that was used in the
district formation, before this May we did not have that proof.
Councilman Strough-All the water flow is metered, so you know exactly where it is
going so you know it is going to this septic system or sewer system as the case maybe, I
got a figure of fifty two million gallons out of that fifty two million three hundred and
eighty one thousand gallons what percentage of that what was the total amount of
millions of gallons we ascertained were for sewage use?
Representative of Great Escape-About ten point four six percent of that or about five
point five million gallons. You charged us on the full fifty two point three million we are
saying it should be about five point five million.
Supervisor Stec-Sixty million gallons a year is what number?
Representative of Great Escapee-That is how much we are being charged for our water
intake.
Supervisor Stec-The design park flow for sewer is what?
Representative of Great Escape-Maximum ten million.
Supervisor Stec-You are being charged for a sewer bill that would equate to what amount
of gallons?
Representative of Great Escape-Sixty Million gallons.
Supervisor Stec-I can see arguments, a fairness argument and you got a numerical
argument that we haven’t spewed any fifty some odd gallons out anywhere.
Representative of Great Escape-Some is going into septic the other ninety percent is in
landscaping and water park.
Supervisor Stec-You bought water, sixty million gallons if you sent every gallon back in
sewer that you were allowed to under capacity that maximum number is ten million. You
think the actual number is closer to six, seven million.
Great Escape Representative-On the two meters in question, last summer the two quarters
we metered about four point one.
Supervisor Stec-You have been billed reflects as if you had discharged fifty some odd
million.
Representative of Great Escape-..we can physically discharge more than ten million but
the system that the district was set up such that the park could discharge ten million.
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33
Councilman Boor-Ten million over what time period?
Representative of Great Escape-Most of the ten million gallons a year is dumped in over
a six month time frame or less.
Councilman Sanford-Conceptually you are laying out an argument with no tangible basis,
you are saying intuitively we are taking in more water than we are discharging and so we
should have a credit and you are saying on that basis we should basically throw out the
rule book and say we are going to give you a credit because we kind of know that this is
the case we will accept your representations and call a seventy thousand dollar credit
where we have no audit and in fact the party that will benefit giving the representations.
Representative of Great Escape-We did not come in here this is honest forth right
taxpayer this should not be an adversarial kind of proceeding, we are coming in here ,
they did these estimates and used these numbers based on science and fact.
Councilman Sanford-I am just stating the fact that you are asking this board to make a
decision in terms of giving a financial credit to this company based on something that is
un-audited.
Director Shaw-His projections are reasonable but they are projections, we bill on meter
water consumption, and for quite a few years we have been telling Great Escape please
put your dedicated meters in we knew this day was coming.
Supervisor Stec-Is it physically possible for all the water that is sent into the park to be
sent back down the sewer line?
Director Shaw-I think it is possible…
Representative of Great Escape-We cannot possibly discharge all that water to the system
because we do not have connections for all those.
Supervisor Stec-Where I am going with this, if you are going to give a consideration here
and there is going to be an argument over well is it a wet year or dry year or do you have
break or don’t you have a break I really think at this point perhaps the best you all might
able to hope for is what is the physical design how much could you have possibly sent,
worst case scenario for you, and obviously your credit may dwindle rapidly from seventy
thousand down to, but anything is better than nothing. If we were to give you a credit we
need to say that is why because somebody else is going to say how did you figure this? If
we were to consider anything I think we would have to be able to base it on, this is the
maximum physically possibly could have been discharged and I do not know what that
calculation is. It maybe worth it for you to come up with that number and who knows
maybe it is something significant and then again it may not be.
Councilman Sanford-Great Escape has been encouraged to install these meters for quite
some time and they did not do it, so isn’t this sort of a situation that was brought about by
their neglect to install the meters earlier?
Director Shaw-In my opinion probably yes.
Representative of Great Escape-This is an excessive penalty for metering discrepancy
basically.
Councilman Strough-You are using about sixty nine million gallons per year and you say
that empirically now that we have the meter system we only use for septic purposes ten
thth
million it is about 1/6 so 5/6 of the water supply goes to other things like the water
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park, what you are saying is now that you have established about 1/6 of the water usage
used for septic system then that is all you should be charged for however the previous
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year you were charged the full sixty million gallons and you would like 5/6 of what you
paid back. Where do you discharge your water park water?
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33
Representative of Great Escape-In the ground in existing speedies permitted system.
Councilman Strough-I do understand the nature of the beast, other people that have come
before it, BayBridge and some of the others claim that why are we being charged the
whole shot when X amount of gallons in our estimate was used to water our lawns?
Mike response to that was there is nothing we can do about it until you meter that. If you
want to meter that portion that goes to water that lawns and we can then adjust your bill
appropriately until you do that it is guess-ti-mation and you have to pay the full route.
Based on past history you are facing that. I am not dismissing your argument but you are
facing the fact that others have been before us and we have treated them this way. If we
treat you any differently than we have treated others that may not look well either. Given
past history it is not easy for us to say yes right away.
Councilman Sanford-I appreciate the scaling differential that Mr. Lemery had brought up
with the size and amount of consumption and utilization but the principal remains the
same.
Supervisor Stec-I personally believe that any relief that you are going to get from this
Board I think the maximum you are going to see is if we said this is the maximum that
was physically capable of being discharged into sewer and I understand what you are
saying if everything was connected it will all fit and you are saying well what if we can
document that only twenty five percent of it was connected.
Representative of Great Escape-The first year that we started paying sewer bills we had
very little connected.
Supervisor Stec-That calculation is the best and only hope of any relief. I do not think
th
that there is support on this board to go with the 5/6 that calculation. I think if this
Board saw a calculation that Mike Shaw signed off on that Mike says that is the
maximum number.
Representative of Great Escape-The argument is what is going into the sewers is roughly
4.7 or 6.4 million gallon the theme park was billed on the basis of the water intake which
is used to fill all of the attractions so it is a very different animal than what is up and
down Route 9. We elected not to come in last year after we had an initial discussion
because we wanted to be very sure of what the actual discharge was going to look like
and we couldn’t do that until it all got metered. When they all got metered we could
make that calculation, we are under what it was sized for by a few million gallons and we
got another bill in the beginning of ’07 for another roughly sixty million gallon discharge
which was paid. We come to ask you whether or not you would be willing to look at that
recognizing that it took the theme park longer to get these meters on whether there is a
punishment factor here or not I will not speak to that. We think there was a lot more
problematic and difficult to get these meters in when things were changing when we want
a meter here, we want a meter over there where is this discharge going where is that
discharge going at the same time they were dealing with trying to get the electrical lights
at the theme park, they have just spent a million dollars on a sub station. These kinds of
things as a practical matter enter into the ability to get this done. We are simply here to
say would you be willing to give us a credit an acknowledge that the theme park was
built for millions more a gallons of discharge than it is actually taking place and we have
a number based on the two years which is about a hundred and seventy thousand dollars
over the last two years of overpayment based on the discharge. Now if you say too bad
our policy is whatever it is ok. Our position is it’s a theme park and a hotel across the
street and are really good taxpayers.
Councilman Boor-I am certainly willing to look into it but I would have to have a better
comfort level than I have right now.
Supervisor Stec-Mike knows this issue and he will be in a position to make that call
saying we have enough data now where his confidence is high enough where he can
make a recommendation to the Board. Another year of data might give a lot of people on
the Board a lot more comfort. When will there be a two year average?
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33
Director Shaw-Next June.
Councilman Boor-I think there is some merit to what you are talking about but we have
to answer to everybody that comes and asks for these types of things and I do not want to
do something quick.
Councilman Sanford-I do not want to leave you with a false impression that after two
years of data collection you are coming in here and it is going to be given approval. I
believe that it is probably a reasonable exercise for you to undertake and that it, no other
representation from me at least other than that.
Councilman Strough-I think in two years of seeing some kind of empirical data it gives
us a base line. I am not so sure I am willing to give you all the credit you are asking for
but I also understand the argument that you have a very different and unique enterprise
there and some of those uses use a whole lot of water that has nothing to do with septic.
Supervisor Stec-I think what you got out of us that we are willing to reexamine this about
another year from now with another year of data.
Representatives of Great Escape-Thank you.
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR AN EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 344.2007
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough
RESOLVED,
that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into an
Executive Session to discuss with Town Counsel a union grievance and two contract
negotiations and legal advice.
rd
Duly adopted this 23 day of July, 2007 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 345.2007
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
RESOLVED,
that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its
Executive Session and moves back in to Special Session.
rd
Duly adopted this 23 day of July, 2007 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
841
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33
No action taken during Executive Session
DISCUSSION: WETLANDS CHAPTER 94 DRAFT CHANGES
Councilman Sanford-Town Counsel has prepared a draft…there is a presumption in your
language that only the Planning Board really is going to be wrestling with, and yet the
Town Board as lead agent we could be wrestling with it, on page 9 D-2 and maybe if it
exists elsewhere throughout may be you put down prescribed by the Planning Board or
other involved or lead agency boards so that we do not restrict the fresh water wetland
permit process to just the Planning Board. If this is adopted then the issues that I
discussed with you are going to be satisfactorily addressed and that is to say if someone
comes in there is wetland on their property and even it is not mapped but over a half acre
regardless of whether that half acre is part of the wetland and on someone else’s property
then what they are going to have to do is they cannot disturb it a hundred feet from the
wetland unless they apply for and receive a permit.
Town Counsel Noordsy-One inconsistency I see in here on page 2 we said at least a half
acres in size and on another page we said greater than a half acre.
Councilman Sanford-That was a number I threw out that seemed to make sense to me.
Councilman Boor-A half acre or greater.
Councilman Sanford-That is fine.
Councilman Brewer-If I have wetlands on my property it is unmapped I have to get a
permit to do something.
Councilman Sanford-If you have a couple of acre lot and you want to do a subdivision or
something like that we are going to basically say you have to present a map in this case to
the Planning Board the wetland would need to be identified and unless they get a permit
they cannot construct or disturb a hundred feet from that.
Sr. Planner Baker-By what standards, Army Corp. uses one standard and DEC uses
another.
Board agreed to use DEC standards
Councilman Strough-We have to make sure that when the Planning Board goes through
and asks the applicant what is required on the site plan or the plat that they are offering it
has to include all identified wetlands even local wetlands. The wording will need to be
changed.
Councilman Boor-Un-identified as well.
Councilman Sanford-The other thing I wanted done is I do not want to get hung up on
whether or not it is caught on some map that is in the Town Clerk’s Office, a map could
be a useful resource but the reality is if it is a wetland and I want to have it …
Councilman Strough-The applicant has to know this so when the applicant reads our code
they know what is expected of them when they submit a plat.
Board agreed to set a public hearing at the next Town Board Meeting on the proposed
changes.
DISCUSSION: WATER PLANT BILLING OFFICE STAFFING
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33
Supervisor Stec-We have the retirement of one water department account person, based
on conversations with the Water Supt. Bruce Ostrander he is proposing to elevate the
current Sr. Typist to Principal Account Clerk and then to leave the title the same and
adjust the hourly rate for the Billing Supervisor to raise that to where the principal
account clerk salary was. Instead of having three people we will have two people and
we may need some need for summer help, either way this will help us.
Board agreed to the changes.
DISCUSSION: CEMETERY
Councilman Brewer-Cemetery Supt. has asked about the position at Pine View Cemetery
Supervisor Stec-That resolution will be on the agenda for the next meeting.
DISCUSSION: BEAUTIFICATION COMMITTEE
Town Counsel will review the proposal.
DISCUSSION: ASSESSOR’S OFFICE STAFFING AND ORGANIZATION
Supervisor Stec-Noted the Assessor was on vacation this week but did provide
documentation last week and then Adrienne Weaver and Ted Bigelow are here. Helen
has recommended to dis-continue the coordinated assessing program. That is something
we need to address with her if you have any concerns about that.
Appraiser Ted Bigelow-The two positions in question are two positions that are in the
budget now, last year there was a data collector position his employment was terminated
unfortunately the work did not terminate. There is a lot of work that needs to be done.
Since the reval I think the perception is that the work just kind of ends and it doesn’t, the
town is growing every year. I pulled up on the assessor’s report, the tax roll is now up to
2.9 billion dollars the value changes from last year for assessment almost a hundred and
seven million dollars in value changes, net increase a little over twenty eight million,
from 2006 to 2007.
Councilman Sanford-Recommended since Helen is leaving let the new department head
size things up and get back to us to what they think is necessary rather than locking it in
for them.
Appraiser Bigelow-Unfortunately the work load doesn’t stop that is ongoing no matter
who you have in the Assessor’s position. The work that is required by us from the State
st
and the time table the March 1 deadline in theory we are suppose to value everything as
st
of March 1, well that doesn’t happen obviously it is ongoing through out the year. When
our busiest time of year is the fall and over the winter that is when we are right out
straight.
Councilman Boor-Noted the vacancy for data collector, the position was advertised and
the Assessor noted that none of the candidates were qualified, if the people that applied
before were not qualified where are these new people coming from that are qualified?
The new person should be making a choice of who they are comfortable working with I
think. Noted that he wanted the position filled six or seven months ago, now is not the
best time, I would have like Howard to have trained this person and Helen to have trained
somebody over this period of time, it is important that your knowledge be passed on. I am
not comfortable with what is being proposed here.
Appraiser Bigelow-No matter who you have for that position they are going to have to be
trained by myself or the new assessor or Helen, it is a civil service position, they have to
take a test for it. You are much more than a month away from another assessor that is my
take on it.
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33
Councilman Strough-I would like to see an assessor on board by the middle of August.
That would give Helen two weeks to train that person. We are going to have to put out
advertisements for people to replace these positions we can do that at that same time we
have to advertise for a new assessor. It does make sense that the new assessor would
want to choose their own people, especially if we sever the relationship that we have with
Glens Falls, the new assessor may take a look at what we do here in Queensbury and
have a completely different opinion of what he/she needs and who he/she wants in their
department. Get the Assessor on board immediately and there is nothing wrong in
advertising for these other positions.
Councilman Boor-Don’t leave with the impression that these people aren’t going to be
hired the question is who is the appropriate person to interview and hire them, the person
who is going to work with them for the next how ever many years or somebody who is
going to be gone in five weeks what ever it is.
Appraiser Bigelow-I would agree with you that it is incumbent then upon the Board to
hire an Assessor.
Councilman Boor-We need tomorrow to run an ad for an assessor.
Supervisor Stec-I will advertise for an Assessor and other positions. Noted that Helen
has also notified the city that it is in both of our interests to segregate the position.
Councilman Boor-I tend to agree.
Supervisor Stec-Noted he will speak to the Mayor regarding this change.
Councilman Sanford-Questioned if one of these positions might be something that the
assistant to the Director down stairs might fill?
Supervisor Stec-We do need to have a conversation about that position and she is very
valuable and we are getting value out of her but her position is not well defined right
now.
Appraiser Bigelow-As important as the data collector is the assistant, Mary is going to be
retiring next year and that one has direct contact with the public, we need to get someone
on staff to train on exemptions.
Supervisor Stec-We will get the ads in the paper both the Times Union and the local
paper. Noted two or three have expressed interest already in the Assessor’s position.
Board agreed that we should have our own assessor.
Appraiser Bigelow-Our next problem even if you advertise now I do not know if there
will be somebody on board for the fall school bills. Someone trained for the exemptions
in the spring is very necessary they could then move into Mary’s position.
DISCUSSION: BEAUTIFICATION COMMITTEE
Councilman Strough-The Committee has asked for $400 in seed money.
Supervisor Stec-Barbara has a couple of thoughts on that I will share with the Board on
how to fund that.
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING TOWN BOARD MEETING
RESOLUTION NO. 346.2007
844
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
RESOLVED,
that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Town
Board Meeting.
rd
Duly adopted this 23 day of July, 2007 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr Brewer, Mr. Stec
NOES: None
ABSENT: None