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2007-07-23 SP MTG33 830 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. #33 JULY 23, 2007 RES. 343-346 6:30 p.m. TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR COUNCILMAN RICHARD SANFORD COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER TOWN OFFICIALS SR. PLANNER STU BAKER WATER SUPERINTENDENT BRUCE OSTRANDER DIRECTOR OF BUILDING AND CODES DAVE HATIN APPRAISER TED BIGELOW Supervisor Stec-Opened the Meeting. RESOLUTIONS: RESOLUTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING CONCERNING PROPOSED WITHDRAWAL FROM CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN RESERVE FUND #64 FOR IMPROVEMENTS AT RIDGE/JENKINSVILLE PARK RESOLUTION NO.: 343. 2007 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tm Brewer WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board previously established a Capital Improvement Plan Reserve Fund #64 (Fund #64) for future Town project developments, and WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 416,2003 the Town Board authorized establishment of Capital Project Fund #138 to fund expenses associated with parking lot improvements, design and expansion of softball fields and replacement of fencing at the Ridge/Jenkinsville Park and the Town Board authorized funding for such Capital Project Fund #138 in the amount of $95,670 and such funds were transferred into such Fund #138 from Capital Improvement Plan Reserve Fund #64, and WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 210,2004 the Queensbury Town Board authorized a supplemental Ridge/Jenkinsville Park Project and additional expenditures in the amount of $413,266 and funds were transferred from Capital Improvement Plan Reserve Fund #64 to Fund #138 to fund such supplemental Project, and 831 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33 WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 99,2007, the Queensbury Town Board authorized the supplemental Ridge/Jenkinsville Park Project (Project) and expenditures for such work in the amount of $976,000, with the proposed improvements to the Ridge/Jenkinsville Park as follows: 1.creation of three (3) multi-use (soccer, lacrosse, field hockey, etc.,) irrigated, athletic fields; 2.construction of a field house containing bathrooms, irrigation equipment/controls and storage space for maintenance equipment and ancillary field gear (goal netting, flags, signage, etc.,); 3.construction of a paved access road and paved parking; 4.construction of walkways, fencing and landscaping; and 5.professional services for all of the above; and WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 278,2007, the Town Board authorized engagement of James H. Maloy, Inc. (Maloy) to provide site work/general construction services concerning the athletic field improvements relating to this Project for an amount not to exceed $659,000, and WHEREAS, the Queensbury Recreation Commission has requested the completion of additional site work by Change Order No.: 1 as follows: ? One (1) additional athletic field (including irrigation): $96,400.00 ? Bid Alternate #1 (landscaping plan): $17,000.00 ? Bid Alternate #2 (finish coat paving) $18,000.00 and WHEREAS, the total amount of such proposed Change Order No.: 1 totals $131,400.00, and WHEREAS, the Town’s Director of Parks and Recreation and the Project Architect, Jim Miller, have reviewed the costs of the proposed Change Order No.: 1 and concur with the Recreation Commission’s request, and WHEREAS, adding an additional athletic field during the current Project, as opposed to a future, stand-alone project, can be realized at a cost savings of approximately forty-percent (40%) or $38,560.00, and 832 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33 WHEREAS, the new, anticipated Project costs, including the proposed Change Order No.: 1, total $901,183.00 or nearly $75,000.00 below the $976,000.00 Project amount funded by the Town Board in accordance with Resolution No.: 99,2007, and WHEREAS, the Director of Parks and Recreation has recommended that the Town Board authorize Change Order No.: 1 in the amount of $131,400.00, bringing the total contract amount for Maloy to $790,400.00, and WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to authorize such Change Order and the withdrawal and expenditure of moneys from Fund #64 in the amount of $790,400.00 to Maloy, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board shall meet and hold a public hearing at the Queensbury Activities Center, 742 Bay Road, Queensbury at 7:00 p.m. on Monday, th August 6, 2007 to hear all interested persons and take any necessary action provided by law concerning the proposed Change Order No.: 1 in the amount of $131,400.00 for James H. Maloy, Inc., for improvements at the Ridge/Jenkinsville Park, and as described in the preambles of this Resolution, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Queensbury Town Clerk to publish and post a Notice of Public Hearing concerning the proposed Capital Project in the manner provided by law. th Duly adopted this 6 day of August, 2007, by the following vote: AYES : Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES : None ABSENT : None Discussion held before vote: Councilman Sanford-When we first approved this the understanding was that they would do three fields and we would see if that was satisfactory or whether or not we needed to go further than that and that we would return any monies that if it came in lower than the Nine Hundred and Seventy Four Thousand or so. I am not opposed to having a public hearing but that is still the plan that I think makes best sense rather than to expend the additional money. In addition there are other parks that are in need of certain improvements and I am getting a lot of I guess resistance might be the right way to phrase it, especially on the park in South Q which would probably be all of about a one or two thousand dollar situation here. If it makes sense to have the public hearing so that we have the benefit of whatever additional input that may take place from the public that is fine, although I just want to let you know that I maybe alone on this one but I am not necessarily all encouraged to add that additional fourth 833 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33 field at the additional cost at this time. So, we can have the public hearing and I guess we can have the discussion at the regular meeting but I just wanted to let you in on that. To me it makes sense to go three fields to see how they are utilized and see what the need is before we went ahead with the fourth field. Vote taken Supervisor Stec-Regarding the next resolution Town Counsel would like to speak to the Board in Executive Session on this. DISCUSSION: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT UPDATE DIRECTOR HATIN Councilman Boor-Mr. Hilton has placed on our maps the Lake George CEA. Requested that a copy of this map go to all the Planning Board Members. Councilman Strough-Re: CEA requested that Mr.Hatin review his work before it is finished and see if there are any problems with interpretation. Director Hatin-The only thing I have seen so far is the definition of a lot, you say non contagious, issues like that are not going to solve the lot across the street. I would define it as the green space between the road and the lake. Councilman Strough-I will add that to it. I think we are going to end up with a whole new section of 179 entitled CEA. It will deal with vegetation protection buffer standard it will deal with shore line clearing standards it will deal with the definition of a CEA, it will deal with the definition of where does the beginning of a measurement take place if we are talking about lake side residences. In Lake George it is the high mean model mark but for other places I found a definition from Wisconsin, requested that the Board look at that definition. Councilman Boor-There was at least on species that was being recommended that is in trouble right now, the American Beech, I do not know if we should recommend planting those if they are not going to live very long. Councilman Strough-Will research that. If we are going to have different standards in CEA’s for septic systems and storm water it almost requires a whole section unto itself. SR. PLANNER BAKER 1.Land Use Planner Candidates 2.Draft Zoning Code Sr. Planner Baker-On the Lane Use Planner Candidates, you have the top five list, who is going to be on the interview committee and when can we start the interview process? Councilman Boor-My recommendation was that I am not convinced that we need anybody at this point in time. Where are we deficient? Councilman Sanford-Requested to wait and speak to Craig Brown, I actually have similar thoughts. I would support hiring the best possible candidate of the pool we have to draw on rather than limit ourselves to a land use planner if we can get ourselves a Sr. Planner and it is not a material difference in compensation and that would be ideal in terms of potential future utilization of that employee. I think some of the candidates in that listing probably could serve both capacities. Sr. Planner Baker-The positions are very different and the applicants were aware of it. Councilman Boor-I did not review the Sr. Planner on your recommendation. 834 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33 Councilman Sanford-Why couldn’t we have a hybrid situation where the whole universe of related functions is divided up and that way we have the best of both worlds especially if there is not a material difference. Sr. Planner Baker-This conversation we should have had prior to advertising the position. Councilman Boor-I would rather take more time and make a confident decision than rush. I have yet to hear from you, Dave Hatin or Craig where we are deficient? If I know what our deficiencies are then I know what to advertise for. Sr. Planner Baker-The deficiencies are staffing for the Planning Board and Zoning Board. Councilman Sanford-Why couldn’t a Sr. Planner do that? Sr. Planner Baker-I can do that and Craig can do the Zoning Board but that would be less time that we have for other work. This Board especially when you are looking at the Zoning Administration you have been crying out for more and better Zoning Administration if you are going to have the Zoning Administrator spending ten hours or more a week doing ZBA Business that is ten less hours that are going to be going into Zoning Administration and enforcement. Councilman Sanford-Regretfully it seems to me that people like John Strough steps to the plate or in the case of the wetlands Chapter 94 I am stepping to the plate it doesn’t seem to be that the ideas are generated necessarily from staff, Stu. When we found out there were deficiencies in Chapter 94 they remained un-vocalized for a couple of years. Councilman Boor-With the height and the septic and floor area ratio’s I still have not gotten an answer this has been six weeks of asking questions. Councilman Strough-I think what we need is the best qualified person, I do not care if it is the title of a land use planner or sr. planner you saw the over lap in salaries was pretty significant so if in that overlap and I saw somebody I really liked if we saw somebody we really liked I do not care what you call them for a title lets hire them. Sr. Planner Baker-From a Senior Planner perspective I have to point this out from the candidates perspective, the starting for land use planner is lower than that of Sr. Planner, the top end salary for land use planner is lower than that of Sr. Planner and that is what the Sr. Planner would be looking at. Councilman Boor-I was amazed at the number of candidates that were either in college or just out of college, I did not see a lot of people with years of experience that might be able to ask for a higher salary. Councilman Strough-I think we should ask the top three choices and come in for an interview. Councilman Brewer-When you bring the top three in you can lay out what you want or what you expect. Supervisor Stec-What Stu is saying they need bodies at these board meetings or something else is going to suffer. Sr. Planner Baker-It is also working with applicants as well. Councilman Sanford-When we get a list of three I would like the full board interview them. Supervisor Stec-Would have Stu, Craig and the five members of the Town Board do the interviews. We need to get a new revised interview list to Stu if we have changes, will have him e-mail the list to the Town Board. Next Monday night we will firm that up with Craig Brown so a week from tomorrow we can be making phone calls for interviews. 835 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33 Councilman Brewer-Take the best three candidates whether it is a Land use Planner or Sr. Planner. Sr. Planner Baker-Re: Draft Zoning Code The Planning Ordinance Review Committee by resolution passed at their last meeting they agreed to recommend Articles I, 2, 5, 6, 9- 12, 12A, 12B, 13-17 and 19 Chapter A183 as well as the Subdivision Regs. Councilman Boor-Chapter 183 in total? Sr. Planner Baker-Yes in total, which you do not have in this packet. Tomorrow what you will be receiving is Chapter 183 plus the work that the Committee had done to date on Articles 3,4 and 7. They have not reviewed any changed to Article 8 that is landscaping. I will give you two versions of 3,4 and 7 and I will also be printing out relevant sections of the Committees minutes. Discussion held regarding Saratoga Associates, a copy of the contract will be provided to the Board. Councilman Strough-I think that they will have to help us finish this up, one of the snags was the Zoning on of the Route 9 and Quaker Road corridors they had mixed use an go to’s and I convey the opinion and I think represents the community as well as most of the members of this Board that, that is not an appropriate type of zone for Route 9 and Quaker Road. We would rather see some kind of upgraded version of what we have now, which is the definition of a Commercial Zone. I asked this Board to convey that to the PORC Committee and that never happened. So, the PORC Committee was left hanging with just me saying I believe the way it is but I am on my own because I did not get any help. Sr. Planner Baker-There were also committee concerns with so many other proposed zoning districts. Councilman Strough-Stu will identify the areas that need work, are you guys going to sit down and help to write this code or do you want to hire Saratoga Associates or at least finish their contract to finish writing this code? Sr. Planner Baker-There have been some work done on those sections that, that committee could not come to an agreement on and that is what I will forward to you tomorrow. DISCUSSION: GREAT ESCAPE SEWER BILL Present-Jeff Fox, Chief Financial Officer for Theme Park and Hotel, Bob Culvert-Park Operations, Tom Jarrett out Engineer, Don McCoy General Manager, Attorney John Lemery ----ask for another name here…--- Representative of Great Escape -The district was sized to take up ten million gallons a day from the Theme Park, the Theme Park at the same time buys sixty million gallons a year water from the Town, the district position was that until all the metering goes into effect you are going to be charged for the water intake until you can accurately meter what the discharge was. The problem at the Great Escape is there are five miles of sewer that have to be connected within that facility it is just not something that can be done over night, the town has been willing to give us the extensions that we need to get the piping in and there is still some left to go. We will not be in a position to have it all metered until last year so we knew exactly what the discharge was, the discharge is under seven million gallons a year, but this year it got billed again for sixty… Councilman Brewer-How much under seven million? 836 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33 Representative of Great Escape -Six point four Councilman Sanford-Without a meter how do you know that? Representative of Great Escape -Because it was metered for this past season. Wastewater Supt. Mike Shaw-Some of those numbers were based on not actual meter use it was based on projections. Representative of Great Escape -The Great Escape is not like every other taxpayers up and down Route 9 in terms of hooking on, buying water from the town and discharging, it buys an enormous amount of water from the Town and it is basically being charged that same amount by way of a discharge. We have had these discussions with Mike Shaw for some time he has been very decent about it and Mike made the comment if we give you some sort of resolution here other people will be charged more, the question becomes well is the Great Escape as a Queensbury taxpayer expected to subsidized everybody else in the district? I would like to make it clear that we are not looking for any money back, they are looking to have happen to have a credit issued against future sewer bills until this is made up and until we are in the position where we are the same as every other taxpayer. Supt. Shaw-The resolution reads that they will be billed as if they were connected and they are billed the same way as everybody along the corridor. Reviewed the history of potential discharge from the Great Escape. Representative of Great Escape-Is this a fair way to treat this taxpayer, this taxpayer is not like Suttons on Route 9 or even any of the other customers along Route 9. Councilman Boor-With the Gambles and the other businesses that are paying the full amount and maybe are not connected they hire an attorney and say look it, it is equity and it is fairness and I think that is the reason it is very difficult to do for you what you are asking because we asked this of everyone of these individuals. Until you get the meter you are going to be paying as if you are hooked up based on your usage. It is a question of scale, you are right it is scale is why you guys are hurt. The principal of fairness is because you guys are large shouldn’t mean that the guy is small doesn’t have the same bargaining ability. Representative of Great Escape-The meters are now in and we have determined that, that is exactly what the usage is but you cannot treat this user like every other user on a fairness basis. We are not talking about what the policy might be we are talking about what is really fair here. Noted all the bills have been paid. Representative of Great Escape-We were told by Mike that you have the ability to adjust this bill and you have the ability to take into account what has been going on here with this taxpayer. Councilman Sanford-You are pointing to your scale and your size and saying look lets do what is right here not what is consistent. The law as it stands now within this town is we don’t really owe you a credit. Councilman Boor-What do we say to Suttons, what do you say to Gambles, what do you say to the Golf Cart what do you say to them when they are billed in the exact same fashion that you were billed and then we rebate to you and then they say hey were is our rebate. Representative of Great Escape-I think what we say is the answer is that we have speedies permits and we have permits that we know that the water from our water park was not going to go into the sewer system and it was designed not to go into that system. Councilman Sanford-You have approximations, you have estimates you have projections, you do not have conclusive meter positive proof so any suggestion of relief that you are talking about is an approximation. 837 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33 Representative of Great Escape-The calculations were done off of the ’06 actual numbers ’06 actual percentages the meters were in place in ’06 and we did calculations saying that in ’06 the primary meter 10.5% of the water would be metered on our next years bill based on what water was there this year. This was the first time we had a truly measurable methodology. Councilman Brewer-You give us your projections for ’08 and lets wait and see how close they are and then we will compare them and make a decision. Councilman Boor-What rebate are you looking at? Representative of Great Escape-The ’07 bill was based on ’06 numbers. Director Shaw-Noted the cut off for meter reading for ’08 is May of ’07. These are not 100% meter numbers on here you made some projection on there. Representative of Great Escape-We now have substantiated this year with twelve months of actual readings which shows we use less than the ten million that was used in the district formation, before this May we did not have that proof. Councilman Strough-All the water flow is metered, so you know exactly where it is going so you know it is going to this septic system or sewer system as the case maybe, I got a figure of fifty two million gallons out of that fifty two million three hundred and eighty one thousand gallons what percentage of that what was the total amount of millions of gallons we ascertained were for sewage use? Representative of Great Escape-About ten point four six percent of that or about five point five million gallons. You charged us on the full fifty two point three million we are saying it should be about five point five million. Supervisor Stec-Sixty million gallons a year is what number? Representative of Great Escapee-That is how much we are being charged for our water intake. Supervisor Stec-The design park flow for sewer is what? Representative of Great Escape-Maximum ten million. Supervisor Stec-You are being charged for a sewer bill that would equate to what amount of gallons? Representative of Great Escape-Sixty Million gallons. Supervisor Stec-I can see arguments, a fairness argument and you got a numerical argument that we haven’t spewed any fifty some odd gallons out anywhere. Representative of Great Escape-Some is going into septic the other ninety percent is in landscaping and water park. Supervisor Stec-You bought water, sixty million gallons if you sent every gallon back in sewer that you were allowed to under capacity that maximum number is ten million. You think the actual number is closer to six, seven million. Great Escape Representative-On the two meters in question, last summer the two quarters we metered about four point one. Supervisor Stec-You have been billed reflects as if you had discharged fifty some odd million. Representative of Great Escape-..we can physically discharge more than ten million but the system that the district was set up such that the park could discharge ten million. 838 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33 Councilman Boor-Ten million over what time period? Representative of Great Escape-Most of the ten million gallons a year is dumped in over a six month time frame or less. Councilman Sanford-Conceptually you are laying out an argument with no tangible basis, you are saying intuitively we are taking in more water than we are discharging and so we should have a credit and you are saying on that basis we should basically throw out the rule book and say we are going to give you a credit because we kind of know that this is the case we will accept your representations and call a seventy thousand dollar credit where we have no audit and in fact the party that will benefit giving the representations. Representative of Great Escape-We did not come in here this is honest forth right taxpayer this should not be an adversarial kind of proceeding, we are coming in here , they did these estimates and used these numbers based on science and fact. Councilman Sanford-I am just stating the fact that you are asking this board to make a decision in terms of giving a financial credit to this company based on something that is un-audited. Director Shaw-His projections are reasonable but they are projections, we bill on meter water consumption, and for quite a few years we have been telling Great Escape please put your dedicated meters in we knew this day was coming. Supervisor Stec-Is it physically possible for all the water that is sent into the park to be sent back down the sewer line? Director Shaw-I think it is possible… Representative of Great Escape-We cannot possibly discharge all that water to the system because we do not have connections for all those. Supervisor Stec-Where I am going with this, if you are going to give a consideration here and there is going to be an argument over well is it a wet year or dry year or do you have break or don’t you have a break I really think at this point perhaps the best you all might able to hope for is what is the physical design how much could you have possibly sent, worst case scenario for you, and obviously your credit may dwindle rapidly from seventy thousand down to, but anything is better than nothing. If we were to give you a credit we need to say that is why because somebody else is going to say how did you figure this? If we were to consider anything I think we would have to be able to base it on, this is the maximum physically possibly could have been discharged and I do not know what that calculation is. It maybe worth it for you to come up with that number and who knows maybe it is something significant and then again it may not be. Councilman Sanford-Great Escape has been encouraged to install these meters for quite some time and they did not do it, so isn’t this sort of a situation that was brought about by their neglect to install the meters earlier? Director Shaw-In my opinion probably yes. Representative of Great Escape-This is an excessive penalty for metering discrepancy basically. Councilman Strough-You are using about sixty nine million gallons per year and you say that empirically now that we have the meter system we only use for septic purposes ten thth million it is about 1/6 so 5/6 of the water supply goes to other things like the water th park, what you are saying is now that you have established about 1/6 of the water usage used for septic system then that is all you should be charged for however the previous th year you were charged the full sixty million gallons and you would like 5/6 of what you paid back. Where do you discharge your water park water? 839 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33 Representative of Great Escape-In the ground in existing speedies permitted system. Councilman Strough-I do understand the nature of the beast, other people that have come before it, BayBridge and some of the others claim that why are we being charged the whole shot when X amount of gallons in our estimate was used to water our lawns? Mike response to that was there is nothing we can do about it until you meter that. If you want to meter that portion that goes to water that lawns and we can then adjust your bill appropriately until you do that it is guess-ti-mation and you have to pay the full route. Based on past history you are facing that. I am not dismissing your argument but you are facing the fact that others have been before us and we have treated them this way. If we treat you any differently than we have treated others that may not look well either. Given past history it is not easy for us to say yes right away. Councilman Sanford-I appreciate the scaling differential that Mr. Lemery had brought up with the size and amount of consumption and utilization but the principal remains the same. Supervisor Stec-I personally believe that any relief that you are going to get from this Board I think the maximum you are going to see is if we said this is the maximum that was physically capable of being discharged into sewer and I understand what you are saying if everything was connected it will all fit and you are saying well what if we can document that only twenty five percent of it was connected. Representative of Great Escape-The first year that we started paying sewer bills we had very little connected. Supervisor Stec-That calculation is the best and only hope of any relief. I do not think th that there is support on this board to go with the 5/6 that calculation. I think if this Board saw a calculation that Mike Shaw signed off on that Mike says that is the maximum number. Representative of Great Escape-The argument is what is going into the sewers is roughly 4.7 or 6.4 million gallon the theme park was billed on the basis of the water intake which is used to fill all of the attractions so it is a very different animal than what is up and down Route 9. We elected not to come in last year after we had an initial discussion because we wanted to be very sure of what the actual discharge was going to look like and we couldn’t do that until it all got metered. When they all got metered we could make that calculation, we are under what it was sized for by a few million gallons and we got another bill in the beginning of ’07 for another roughly sixty million gallon discharge which was paid. We come to ask you whether or not you would be willing to look at that recognizing that it took the theme park longer to get these meters on whether there is a punishment factor here or not I will not speak to that. We think there was a lot more problematic and difficult to get these meters in when things were changing when we want a meter here, we want a meter over there where is this discharge going where is that discharge going at the same time they were dealing with trying to get the electrical lights at the theme park, they have just spent a million dollars on a sub station. These kinds of things as a practical matter enter into the ability to get this done. We are simply here to say would you be willing to give us a credit an acknowledge that the theme park was built for millions more a gallons of discharge than it is actually taking place and we have a number based on the two years which is about a hundred and seventy thousand dollars over the last two years of overpayment based on the discharge. Now if you say too bad our policy is whatever it is ok. Our position is it’s a theme park and a hotel across the street and are really good taxpayers. Councilman Boor-I am certainly willing to look into it but I would have to have a better comfort level than I have right now. Supervisor Stec-Mike knows this issue and he will be in a position to make that call saying we have enough data now where his confidence is high enough where he can make a recommendation to the Board. Another year of data might give a lot of people on the Board a lot more comfort. When will there be a two year average? 840 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33 Director Shaw-Next June. Councilman Boor-I think there is some merit to what you are talking about but we have to answer to everybody that comes and asks for these types of things and I do not want to do something quick. Councilman Sanford-I do not want to leave you with a false impression that after two years of data collection you are coming in here and it is going to be given approval. I believe that it is probably a reasonable exercise for you to undertake and that it, no other representation from me at least other than that. Councilman Strough-I think in two years of seeing some kind of empirical data it gives us a base line. I am not so sure I am willing to give you all the credit you are asking for but I also understand the argument that you have a very different and unique enterprise there and some of those uses use a whole lot of water that has nothing to do with septic. Supervisor Stec-I think what you got out of us that we are willing to reexamine this about another year from now with another year of data. Representatives of Great Escape-Thank you. RESOLUTION CALLING FOR AN EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 344.2007 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into an Executive Session to discuss with Town Counsel a union grievance and two contract negotiations and legal advice. rd Duly adopted this 23 day of July, 2007 by the following vote: AYES: Mr Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: None RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 345.2007 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Executive Session and moves back in to Special Session. rd Duly adopted this 23 day of July, 2007 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: None 841 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33 No action taken during Executive Session DISCUSSION: WETLANDS CHAPTER 94 DRAFT CHANGES Councilman Sanford-Town Counsel has prepared a draft…there is a presumption in your language that only the Planning Board really is going to be wrestling with, and yet the Town Board as lead agent we could be wrestling with it, on page 9 D-2 and maybe if it exists elsewhere throughout may be you put down prescribed by the Planning Board or other involved or lead agency boards so that we do not restrict the fresh water wetland permit process to just the Planning Board. If this is adopted then the issues that I discussed with you are going to be satisfactorily addressed and that is to say if someone comes in there is wetland on their property and even it is not mapped but over a half acre regardless of whether that half acre is part of the wetland and on someone else’s property then what they are going to have to do is they cannot disturb it a hundred feet from the wetland unless they apply for and receive a permit. Town Counsel Noordsy-One inconsistency I see in here on page 2 we said at least a half acres in size and on another page we said greater than a half acre. Councilman Sanford-That was a number I threw out that seemed to make sense to me. Councilman Boor-A half acre or greater. Councilman Sanford-That is fine. Councilman Brewer-If I have wetlands on my property it is unmapped I have to get a permit to do something. Councilman Sanford-If you have a couple of acre lot and you want to do a subdivision or something like that we are going to basically say you have to present a map in this case to the Planning Board the wetland would need to be identified and unless they get a permit they cannot construct or disturb a hundred feet from that. Sr. Planner Baker-By what standards, Army Corp. uses one standard and DEC uses another. Board agreed to use DEC standards Councilman Strough-We have to make sure that when the Planning Board goes through and asks the applicant what is required on the site plan or the plat that they are offering it has to include all identified wetlands even local wetlands. The wording will need to be changed. Councilman Boor-Un-identified as well. Councilman Sanford-The other thing I wanted done is I do not want to get hung up on whether or not it is caught on some map that is in the Town Clerk’s Office, a map could be a useful resource but the reality is if it is a wetland and I want to have it … Councilman Strough-The applicant has to know this so when the applicant reads our code they know what is expected of them when they submit a plat. Board agreed to set a public hearing at the next Town Board Meeting on the proposed changes. DISCUSSION: WATER PLANT BILLING OFFICE STAFFING 842 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33 Supervisor Stec-We have the retirement of one water department account person, based on conversations with the Water Supt. Bruce Ostrander he is proposing to elevate the current Sr. Typist to Principal Account Clerk and then to leave the title the same and adjust the hourly rate for the Billing Supervisor to raise that to where the principal account clerk salary was. Instead of having three people we will have two people and we may need some need for summer help, either way this will help us. Board agreed to the changes. DISCUSSION: CEMETERY Councilman Brewer-Cemetery Supt. has asked about the position at Pine View Cemetery Supervisor Stec-That resolution will be on the agenda for the next meeting. DISCUSSION: BEAUTIFICATION COMMITTEE Town Counsel will review the proposal. DISCUSSION: ASSESSOR’S OFFICE STAFFING AND ORGANIZATION Supervisor Stec-Noted the Assessor was on vacation this week but did provide documentation last week and then Adrienne Weaver and Ted Bigelow are here. Helen has recommended to dis-continue the coordinated assessing program. That is something we need to address with her if you have any concerns about that. Appraiser Ted Bigelow-The two positions in question are two positions that are in the budget now, last year there was a data collector position his employment was terminated unfortunately the work did not terminate. There is a lot of work that needs to be done. Since the reval I think the perception is that the work just kind of ends and it doesn’t, the town is growing every year. I pulled up on the assessor’s report, the tax roll is now up to 2.9 billion dollars the value changes from last year for assessment almost a hundred and seven million dollars in value changes, net increase a little over twenty eight million, from 2006 to 2007. Councilman Sanford-Recommended since Helen is leaving let the new department head size things up and get back to us to what they think is necessary rather than locking it in for them. Appraiser Bigelow-Unfortunately the work load doesn’t stop that is ongoing no matter who you have in the Assessor’s position. The work that is required by us from the State st and the time table the March 1 deadline in theory we are suppose to value everything as st of March 1, well that doesn’t happen obviously it is ongoing through out the year. When our busiest time of year is the fall and over the winter that is when we are right out straight. Councilman Boor-Noted the vacancy for data collector, the position was advertised and the Assessor noted that none of the candidates were qualified, if the people that applied before were not qualified where are these new people coming from that are qualified? The new person should be making a choice of who they are comfortable working with I think. Noted that he wanted the position filled six or seven months ago, now is not the best time, I would have like Howard to have trained this person and Helen to have trained somebody over this period of time, it is important that your knowledge be passed on. I am not comfortable with what is being proposed here. Appraiser Bigelow-No matter who you have for that position they are going to have to be trained by myself or the new assessor or Helen, it is a civil service position, they have to take a test for it. You are much more than a month away from another assessor that is my take on it. 843 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33 Councilman Strough-I would like to see an assessor on board by the middle of August. That would give Helen two weeks to train that person. We are going to have to put out advertisements for people to replace these positions we can do that at that same time we have to advertise for a new assessor. It does make sense that the new assessor would want to choose their own people, especially if we sever the relationship that we have with Glens Falls, the new assessor may take a look at what we do here in Queensbury and have a completely different opinion of what he/she needs and who he/she wants in their department. Get the Assessor on board immediately and there is nothing wrong in advertising for these other positions. Councilman Boor-Don’t leave with the impression that these people aren’t going to be hired the question is who is the appropriate person to interview and hire them, the person who is going to work with them for the next how ever many years or somebody who is going to be gone in five weeks what ever it is. Appraiser Bigelow-I would agree with you that it is incumbent then upon the Board to hire an Assessor. Councilman Boor-We need tomorrow to run an ad for an assessor. Supervisor Stec-I will advertise for an Assessor and other positions. Noted that Helen has also notified the city that it is in both of our interests to segregate the position. Councilman Boor-I tend to agree. Supervisor Stec-Noted he will speak to the Mayor regarding this change. Councilman Sanford-Questioned if one of these positions might be something that the assistant to the Director down stairs might fill? Supervisor Stec-We do need to have a conversation about that position and she is very valuable and we are getting value out of her but her position is not well defined right now. Appraiser Bigelow-As important as the data collector is the assistant, Mary is going to be retiring next year and that one has direct contact with the public, we need to get someone on staff to train on exemptions. Supervisor Stec-We will get the ads in the paper both the Times Union and the local paper. Noted two or three have expressed interest already in the Assessor’s position. Board agreed that we should have our own assessor. Appraiser Bigelow-Our next problem even if you advertise now I do not know if there will be somebody on board for the fall school bills. Someone trained for the exemptions in the spring is very necessary they could then move into Mary’s position. DISCUSSION: BEAUTIFICATION COMMITTEE Councilman Strough-The Committee has asked for $400 in seed money. Supervisor Stec-Barbara has a couple of thoughts on that I will share with the Board on how to fund that. RESOLUTION ADJOURNING TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 346.2007 844 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 07-23-2007 MTG. #33 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Town Board Meeting. rd Duly adopted this 23 day of July, 2007 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: None