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1993-11-01 TOWN BOARD MEETING NOVEMBER 1, 1993 7:00 p.m. MTG.#78 RES.637 - 647 BOH44 -46 TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT Supervisor Michel Brandt Councilman Betty Monahan Councilman Susan Goetz Councilman Nick Caimano Councilman Pliney Tucker Town Attorney Paul Dusek PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY COUNCILMAN CAIMANO PUBLIC HEARING-PROPOSED LOCAL LAW ON DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC UTILITIES NOTICE SHOWN Supervisor Brandt-The first item on our agenda tonight is a public hearing on a proposed local law establishing a Department of Public Utilities or actually a Public Utilities Department as it is called under the law. Before we start I would like to state that we had a proposed law on the Department of Public Utilities brought forth, which I brought forth earlier we had a public hearing on it. There was a great deal of discussion a great deal of input and after we adjourned that meeting we looked at it and said there was some reasonable suggestions made. One was that, the engineer when brought in should be available to all departments and not be in charge of the Department of Public Utilities. We restructured that accordingly. Another piece of input was don't create a new layer of bureaucracy and so what we really basically did is brought the Department of Public Utilities down to a smaller department and said that it can grow and as experience as dictates and as the Board sees fit. A new organization chart was made to fit this proposed law a budget was brought together and I have had a committee working on a management level to put the concepts together as how it would work or how it is proposed to work. With that said I am going to tell you real simply the idea of the law is to consolidate some of the work forces and to enable people to bring equipment together from the various departments to work together on whatever priorities are chosen by the Town Board. It is a chance for the management of the department to work with the other departments in coordinating ideas merging their ideas coordinating their plans and picking up the loose ends of a work force where sometimes you have extra people available and bring them all together on. To focus on a project in a sequence set by the Town Board so that you can work on capital projects when, with your extra labor by bringing them together. That is basically it I am going to all the Town Board got a new organization chart I am going to, put one in the record and it is really a public hearing to hear your input I will certainly put one at the table and put one up for the public. I do not have enough of them to go all the way around but it is your chance to tell us what you think. There are some here that are available and if you want to pass them around to someone who wants them they are welcome to them if we have them. The proper legal notices have been made and with that, then I am going to open the public hearing to you in the back the lady, oops, anyone who wants to come up and speak now is your chance. Councilman Caimano- While we are waiting, Mike, I would like to ask a question. You brought up again the committee who helped you put this, put this thing together and I saw on the agenda that down on item D. under resolutions there is a resolution kind of confirming this the identity or not the identity but the make up of this committee and since the committee was a major part of apparently putting this Department of Public Utilities resolution, plan together I wonder if we ought not to get rid of especially since the first paragraph is written all in the past tense implying that this has already been done and we are do nothing but put a rubber stamp on it. First of all you are entitled as we all are to form any committees which we or you would like and I do not know why we need to have a resolution and I would just like to do away with this resolution once and for all if we could and just put it to rest. Supervisor Brandt-I am bringing it forth in its sequence at the meeting. Councilman Caimano-I think we should since the resolution puts together a committee which you used to form this resolution on the public utilities. Supervisor Brandt-I do not see a problem with that, I do not see that, that flaws it. Councilman Ciamano-Ok. Supervisor Brandt-Who would like to speak to us on this matter? Come on right up and talk to us. Ms. Hildegard Mann-Hildegrad Mann, 13 Oakwood Drive, Queensbury. We both had a busy week, Michael, I saved $85,000 dollars this week, I did not buy a Cadillac, and I did not put in an in ground swimming pool in. I think we are probably on a par. I would like to ask who your committee was for starters since this was recommended by a committee. I would like to know who was on the committee I think that the public is entitled to know the individuals and what their credentials are. Supervisor Brandt-There were a couple of committees involved here, one was an advisory committee that I made of citizens in the community to look at this concept and then there was a second committee. Ms. Mann-Well lets, start with the first one, who was on the first committee? Supervisor Brandt-I do not remember all of the participants Hans Hoenck your here. Mr. Hans Hoenck-I am here. Supervisor Brandt-Can you remember who was all on that committee? Mr. Hoenck-Oh, yes I can. Ms. Mann-Who? Mr. Hoenck-Well, Tom Philo. Ms. Mann-What are his credentials? Mr. Hoenck-Well, Tom can speak for himself. Ms. Mann-Well, then speak for yourself, how many employees do you have Mr. Philo. Mr. Thomas Philo-Excuse me? Ms. Mann-How many employees do you have? Mr. Philo-I am retired young lady. Ms. Mann-Well, what did you do before you retired? Mr. Philo-What did I do before I retired? Ms. Mann-Yes. Mr. Philo-Construction Superintendent, taught at Boces Vocational School masonry. Ms. Mann-How long have you been retired? Mr. Philo-4 years. Ms. Mann-How much time have you spent in Town Government? Mr. Philo-How much time do I spend in government? Ms. Mann-Have you spent in Town government? Mr. Philo-Well...zoning,..I do not know what this has to do with I was on the Zoning Board Ms. Mann-I would like to know the ..credentials for the committee, how many times they have met with the various department heads, how frequently did you meet with department heads, these are very serious conclusions you have come to that the head of the Water Dept. is going to go down the road the Deputy Highway Supt. I mean there are two very good people here that were picked out to Mr. Philo-I have never heard anything what you are saying young lady about the Water Dept. going down the road. Ms. Mann-The head of the water dept. then you have not seen the proposed budget I guess. Who else is on the Committee, then I would like to ask that, you and Mr. Hoenck. Mr. Philo-I was the Chairman of the Committee to start off with. Ms. Mann-ok These are your recommendations here? Mr. Hoenck-Yes. Mr. Philo-Yes. Ms. Mann-To streamline Town government. Mr. Hoenck-I read... the two weeks ago at the meeting here ok, and Ms. Mann-I was here Mr. Hoenck-I gave a copy to the Clerk. Ms. Mann-That's right we have it. Mr. Philo-What is your name again Ms. Mann-Mrs. Mann, Hildegard Mann, 13 Oakwood Drive. Ms. Mann-That gets me back to my original question, how many meetings did you have with the various department heads ...recommending streamlining town government? Mr. Philo-How many did we have? Ms. Mann-That is correct. Mr. Philo-Individual Ms. Mann-No as a committee Mr. Philo-As a committee, we met with the water department Ms. Mann-With Mr. Flaherty? Mr. Philo-Yes Ms. Mann-You met with Tom Flaherty Mr. Philo-And Mr. VanDusen, we toured the plant, several times and I want to say that we were accepted very well with the water dept. Mr. VanDusen went out of his way Ms. Mann-Yes, I am sure. Mr. Philo-Explained everything that we needed for the Ms. Mann-For you to streamline that department. Mr. Philo-And we looked at it very honestly, we did not only have Mr. Hans Hoenck there was myself Ms. Mann-Who else Mr. Philo-Dr. Hauser, there was Bob Karpeles Ms. Mann-What are there, the total of them must be apparently, thank you for your input, there must be a booklet you know, because I would like to see where you have in writing your recommendations other than this it does not identify anyone it is just, you know, you must have some kind of documentation here on what was before, what is proposed, what you credentials were the other people's credentials, do you have that anywhere? Mr. Philo-Do you really what to know how this department started? . .myself and six or eight people were not, asked Mr. Brandt about this water department. Ms. Mann-You initiated this not him. Mr. Philo-We initiated it. Ms. Mann-Good Mr. Philo-We asked him if he would look at it, and he said yes. I said I would like to get a bunch that were, Karpeles an engineer a very good man, he is very objective. Ms. Mann-I bet. Mr. Philo-What do you mean by that? Ms. Mann-I just said I bet you are right. Mr. Philo-All right. These people, put a lot of time into this Ms. Mann-I am sure you did. Mr. Philo-And they did not get a nickel out of it and it was what they called pro-bono Ms. Mann-I am sure. Mr. Philo-We looked at when this plant started out I think twenty five million dollars we heard, wow, I went in the air. Twenty five million after they put this million dollars into a water treatment building over there twelve hours before this administration took over I was upset. I went over there and the office building for Mr. Flaherty is bigger than a class room that I had at BOCES. Ms. Mann-So? Mr. Philo-So, Ms. Mann-What are your expertise in the water department. Mr. Philo-What? Ms. Mann-What are your expertise in there, have you ever worked in a water dept. Mr. Philo- I did a lot of water dept. stuff and I worked.. Supervisor Brandt-Wait a minute, I am going to bring this to order, we having a public hearing on a Department of Public Utilities, and Hildegard if you want to make an inquiry you can do that on your own time if you have some input on this law would you please give it to us. Ms. Mann-I certainly do. I would like to know Mr. Philo-I would like to answer that question that she asked me about on the water treatment plant building over there, ...million dollars and they have got an office for everybody over there twelve hours before this committee come in, Mrs. Monahan can Unknown-He is out of order you are supposed to step in now, he cannot do this, he is out of order, set in, or step in. Supervisor Brandt-I am trying to, please. Ms. Mann-You are taking advice from him too? Unknown...a certain amount of order for this Town. Supervisor Brandt-Hildi, give us your input, please. Ms. Mann-My input is I would like to see, as I asked before, what documentation you have had for streamlining it the way you chose. Foreinstance, you cut out the workers the secretaries the Deputy Highway Supt. to save you money the head of the Water Dept. is we are streamlining a department that includes wastewater and water unless you have found something wrong with the head of the water department I would think he would be your normal, the normal choice, apparently he is not nor is the Deputy Highway Supt. These people on the job are down the tubes, there are no workers left in the law it says here however, nothing contained herein shall deem to effect, control or modify the Town Board authority by resolution to abolish, reclassify or create new positions of employment in the Department of Public Utilities after the department is established by this law. Now, you have stood up here and some of your friends have stood up here that this is a major savings of tax dollars and I really amazed that these people came to you I think it is wonderful to of all the departments they had, they targeted on the Water Dept. I think that is kind of unique. But obviously there is a loop hole here that after the department is established all these people are going by-by can be re-put right back in. So, unless you have got documentation before you make the cuts and after and some studies all this is, is just what it was before, a way to get rid of some people, Michel, that you do not want. Supervisor Brandt -lam sorry Hildegrad your quite jaded in your opinion, that is not the fact. Ms. Mann-Thank you. Supervisor Brandt -You are welcome. Anyone else who would like to speak on this. Mr. Hans Hoenck-My name is Hans Hoenck, I am residing in Queensbury, Twicwood Lane, I have been a resident here in Queensbury for twenty four years, my prior experience if I may mention it and obviously there is desire to know what my background is. I was general manager of the Scott facility in Fort Edward for twelve years in 1980 I retired from that position, I have been active in many community activities and if you want me to, I would be glad to list them for you. I am presently also a member of the Queensbury Economic Development Corp. I was on the Board of the Chamber of Commerce in Glens Falls and Fort Edward and I can name others but for the sake of reserving time I will not do it unless somebody is interested. I did make a presentation two weeks ago on behalf of the advisory group and I believe that most of the individuals were not asked by Mr. Brandt to advise him, they came to Mr. Brandt and I know quite a few of them three or four of them have been and still are registered Republicans. But, their concern was primarily a concern of excessive spending in the Town which cumulated with the election ofMr. Brandt as Town Supervisor. What upset most of them and at this time I will only speak for myself what upset most of that was that twelve hours before Mr. Brandt took over the then existing Town Board voted to go ahead with the building an addition to the present water treatment plant to the tune of $850,000 that was one of the items. Then also and I happened to be present here when the presentation was made on a potential expansion of the water treatment plant and I could not believe what I heard. First of all it was a poorly laid out presentation but it indicated that we might here in Queensbury end up paying between twenty two and twenty five million dollars for the expansion of the treatment plant and which in my opinion at that time was not necessary to that extent, so I indicated to Mr. Brandt that I would be glad to assist him in advising in any way that I could with my background might justify me for. So, he said ok, fine, you join this group and we will need other individuals that are probably there for same, for the same reasons. So, we did pursue in detail the job requests that was before the Town to expand the treatment plant, potentially at a cost of twenty two point five, twenty five million dollars. And as you well know now we have a plan that is being entertained that will probably reach a magnitude of eight and a half million dollars will totally satisfy the public here in Queensbury for the next fifteen years in terms what the demand and it also includes some safety features which were sorely needed and also take pride in having participated in this deliberation and what we really did as a group after we met with some department heads and I met with one of the, two of them twice and Mr. Flaherty and Mr. Ralph VanDusen and the group after deliberating all the details we came up in support of the new revised plan for the treatment plant. Then we also at some length discussed the need to re-organize the Town structure to become a more efficient vehicle for the benefit of the tax payers here in Queensbury holding costs down and making the taxpayers money more efficient in application. Fortunately as we have determined that has been very successful, the present Town Board was able to reduce and hold the costs within the revenue picture in 92 and also improve the expenditure picture to the tune of $900,000 in 1993. I also take great pleasure in seeing when I go by the Hovey Pond action I think it is turning out to be a very beautiful layout at a minimum cost to the citizens here in Queensbury. Unknown-...to interrupt, but what does Hovey Pond got to do with Water and Utilities? Mr. Philo-That is part of our.. Mr. Hoenck-I was challenged to explain why we had made ourselves available as advisors to Unknown-I understand that but why would you stick just to the water department... Mr. Philo-We are explaining what ... Supervisor Brandt-..a Department of Public Utilities not the water department, ...make it the water department that is their focus the law is about a Department of Public Utilities and it has a construction section in it. Mr. Hoenck-Oh we will, I'm coming to that. Mr. Philo-That is what we are talking about. Mr. Hoenck-I could re-read the presentation I made two weeks what we as a group decided upon supporting. If its necessary I would be glad to do that. Would you like to hear that? Audience response no. Mr. Hoenck-Ok. So as a group we recommended various Councilman Caimano- Is that a no or a yes, I couldn't Audience response no. Councilman Caimano-Ok. Mr. Hoenck-Let me say this again we are not electable we are just common citizens that are concerned about the expenditures that we have seen grow year after year without any control. So, we basically reviewed on location with Mike Brandt the scope of the new Department of Public Utilities. We gave some input to it but you can rest assured I am sure you know Mr. Brandt quite well that was his final say that went on paper and we have expressed in this review that I read to you basically our support that this would be a very effective tool. Supervisor Brandt -Ok. Mr. Hoenck-Ok. Any questions? Supervisor Brandt-You have a question? Unknown-I was just wondering you came on, at the first public hearing I do not remember mentioning, were you in here from the start ... Mr. Hoenck-No, I was not necessarily in from the start this was not what you might feel, a group that was picked by Mr. Brandt, I did ...express our concerns to the then and present Town Supervisor in anyway we could be helpful to assist him and the Town Board to reduce our expenditures in Queensbury we would be glad to do so and I am sure others came to Mr. Brandt in the same fashion that I did. We did not come as a group we gradually joined one after the other. We reached a total of seven or eight one of the individuals dropped out for personal reasons but the others are still available for additional consultation if asked by the Town Supervisor. Mr. Philo-Excuse me, my name is Tom Philo, I will try and answer that question for you sir. I was the Chairman of this group when we started, I handed it over to Hans Hoenck because of sickness I had not been feeling well. But how it started I was looking at the dump I see 40,000 yards offill at the dump they are ready to spread and it has been one project after another, Hovey's Ice Pond and I said we, the Water Treatment Building going up and here they had a building $850,000 and we did not need it unless we were a water regional, regional water department, this water department in the Town really thought that we were going to buy water from Glens Falls, or Glens Falls was going to buy from us the Town of Moreau, South Glens Falls, Hudson Falls when we got thorough we only had two or three that are going to purchase from us. They did not, the Town Board previous did not have enough research or contracts, if I was going to take a loan on a building I would have a contract before I started something. It was all hear say. I said to Mr. Brandt, I am a little discussed with what is going on up at that dump, and he listened to me. I was hot. I was hot about them approving that water treatment plant, but our committee went up and met with all the people of the Water Department, Mr. VanDusen was a gentleman, and his help. Supervisor Brandt-I want to get back this is, this thing started it obviously started with a group of citizens that were interested in economy in government, they started looking at several things which included capital construction projects as well as the water plant and it evolved towards a consensus that they were looking at really a consolidation toward a Department of Public Utilities. While the committee started looking at some things it changed its focus from and also with Town Board moved along the way and made certain decision and it changed it's focus toward a Department of Public Utilities. I think that's Unknown-He did not answer the question all he asked was the committee in place prior to the first hearing? Mr. Philo-Yes. Unknown-Ok. That is all he was asking. Supervisor Brandt-The committee has been in operation for more than a year I do not know Mr. Hoenck-I was at least I was involved for more than a year. Supervisor Brandt -Some of it, in its early days, was close to two years. Mr. Hoenck -Then you know I have to say that the final activities that we were engaged in and discussed was the re-organized Town Organization and that really came out of the treatment plant expansion project. This really focused our attention on the organization chart, how we could better set up the organization to control township expenditures and we are only here in an advisory capacity to the Town Supervisor Mike Brandt who has the ultimate decision and the Board to do what they want to do with this advice. As far as I am concerned they can completely neglect considering that. Mrs. Lynn Potenza-Is this the same management committee that you are talking about in the resolution? Councilman Caimano-No Mrs. Lynn Potenza-This is a different committee. Supervisor Brandt-That is right. This is an advisory committee to the Supervisor that studied this . Mrs. Lynn Potenza-What is the management advisory committee? Supervisor Brandt-Lets get back to the Department of Public Utilities I do not think that has much to do with it at this point. Councilman Monahan-I do. Mr. Hoenck-Is there anything else, I will be available anytime. Supervisor Brandt-Who is next, who would like to speak to us. Yes. Ms. Lee York-My name is Lee York and I live at Birch Road on Glen Lake. I just have a couple of questions that may clarify things for me. First of all I got a copy of the law here and as I recall the Town Board in 1991 separated the Department of Wastewater and Water which were at that time under the administration of Mr. Flaherty and I really do not know why that decision was made and what has changed in 18 months to make it now a better decision to unite them again. Supervisor Brandt-This Board separated them not 1991 it was done in 1992. Ms. Lee York-I am sorry, 1992. Supervisor Brandt-And probably an education of the Board as it went along the way. Ms. Lee York-Ok, Thank you. Now the next thing and I am not entirely an expert on this but, on page three it discusses construction and maintenance division and that they will maintain activities including gravel and mining operations and seeding requests or desired by any other division. To my knowledge the only one who needs any gravel or does any mining is the Highway Dept. and they have the screens and take care of that and I wondered if there was something that I was missing. Supervisor Brandt-I do not know what you are missing. No, gravel extraction can be used for building in drainage work it was used in the construction of Hovey Pond it can be used in many, many other things but a great deal of it is used in highway you are right. Ms. Lee York-Ok. Thank you. Let's see, as I recall with vehicle and maintenance repair, before 1988 Mr. Naylor's Dept. took care of that and then Mr. Borgos felt that it would be better there would be better maintenance given if it were subcontracted out to private concerns and that became the way things were done for a while and then it was not done that way again but it seems to me if you have highway department and they already have mechanics and you know the equipment to care for machinery maybe it would be better if they took care of the vehicles and equipment for the Town as they had in the past. Supervisor Brandt-There are some problems in the Highway Law with the Town Board at least with myself the Town Highway Law is pretty specific and it's administered by the Highway Supt. and not the Town Board so you can get into conflicts of what each others agenda's are and one of the ideas here is to give the Town Board control of its own agenda. Ms. Lee York-Ok. Thank you. Now, another question I have is on page five of this when it talked about the administrative head or the director of public utilities? Councilman Caimano- What page is that? Ms. Lee York-Page five It indicates that the appointment or term of the Director shall be for a period of four years and that person shall hold office until the first day of January next succeeding the second bi- annual Town Election. Well, this appears to be like a contractual agreement where most Department Heads serve at the pleasure of the Town Board. I just wondered by there was this change and that a person would have a period or term of office like an elected official? Supervisor Brandt-It is my understanding under Town Lawall Town Employees are in a contractual relationship with the Board as I understand it. Attorney Dusek-I think there is a mix, there are some that serve at the pleasure while there are others that do have specifically designated terms, they vary, a typical person who does not have a term or set forth at the pleasure that is deemed an employee under the Town Law would hold office as long as the Civil Service Laws would require so there is another set of laws that step in there. Typically they do not serve at the pleasure and they do not have an appointed term they are an indefinite employee and under Civil Service they can only be removed for cause meaning that something is wrong with the job in those instances. Ms. Lee York-So this person would not be a Civil Service employee? Attorney Dusek-The provision would provide that there is still a Civil Service employee because everybody who is employed in the State of New York or any municipality is a member of the Civil Service. The only question becomes is where they are a member of what we call the exempted Civil Service or whether they are part of or an unclassified service or whether they are in one of the other divisions. If they are an unclassified service or an exempted position they can be appointed by the Town Board and they can be removed at intervals. They do not get the protection that the people who are in the classified who take the tests for their positions do. Councilman Monahan-May I ask Paul a question please? Ms. Lee York-Sure. Councilman Monahan-Paul, I remember when this came up in the original department ofPU I asked if we could get a determination from the County which classification this would fall in, has anything been done about that? Attorney Dusek-I do not know if they have yet rendered an opinion because what has to happen the County sends it to the State and the State ultimately has to issue a determination as to what classification they are going to allow this position to be in. Councilman Monahan-Have they asked, have they been asked to do this? Attorney Dusek-I do not know. Supervisor Brandt-The position has been discussed with them and they feel that it can be as asked for that is exempt and a choice of the Board. Councilman Monahan-Do we have that in writing? Supervisor Brandt-No, you can only get it in writing by the Board requesting it sending it in writing to them from the Board then they pass it on to the State so you do not get it ahead of time. Councilman Caimano-In fact don't we have one quasi contractual relationship with one employee and that is you? Attorney Dusek-Well, certainly me but I think you have other employees along the same. Councilman Caimano- The only one I know of is you. Attorney Dusek-I think Mr. Martin is at the pleasure of the Board. Councilman Caimano-He is at the pleasure of the Board but we have a quasi contractual relationship with you, right? Attorney Dusek-Yes, Helen Otte would be another. Councilman Caimano-Helen Otte is the other one right. Attorney Dusek-Betty Eggleston I think is another one. Councilman Caimano-But for two years. Attorney Dusek-There is a few. Councilman Caimano-No, the Assessor is not for two years the Assessor is Attorney Dusek-The Assessor is six. Councilman Caimano-six, right. Councilman Monahan-Lee if I may interrupt just a minute because you brought up something that I noticed and I would like to see if! could clarify this right now. In the original public law for the Department of Public Utilities the Executive Director was to be appointed until the 1st. day of January, next succeeding the first bi-annual Town Election held after the time of appointment. I would understand that to be a two year appointment now a change that has been in the new one, is that, that is going to be a four year appointment. I wanted everybody to be aware of it, I do not know why this was done, I picked it up when I was going through it because I had no input into the make up of this law. Supervisor Brandt-That came on my choice because of the input we heard at the public hearing. Some people felt that someone in this position needs more than two years security and it seemed reasonable a reasonable comment, so I incorporated it into the new law. Go ahead. Ms. Lee York-I guess that was my last question. I guess I did have one more, I have some underlining here. Where it explains under page seven transfer of property, equipment and budgetary appropriations. Regarding the property or assets to be transferred from improvement districts? I really do not know the law in this can you use equipment that specific improvement districts have paid for, for other purposes? Supervisor Brandt -You can rent equipment out to, between departments. Ms. Lee York -Ok. Those were all my questions, thank you very much. Supervisor Brandt-Thank you. Who is next? Ms. Lise Fuller-My name is Lise Fuller I live at 13 Reservoir Drive Two years ago I became Mike Brandt's Community Assistant, I learned a lot about government one of the things that people used to do I used to listen to people. They used to walk from the Tax Office pay their bills in January and walk down to my office and I particularly remember two senior citizens who came into my office and asked me why I am paying, why are they paying $200.00 in their taxes to the Queensbury Water Dist. I said I really do not know but I would look into it. We did look into it and what we found I felt needed a lot of change. I think you are seeing this change, I think that Mike and the Board is responding to this kind of change. One of the things I learned as I have been out in the public is that people want fiscal responsibility and I see this Department of Public Utilities as going down that road when two years ago one of the things that we found when we came here was that not only had Steve Borgos raised his salary excessively he had raised all the heads of the departments just about all the department heads excessively and the people were angry two years ago and that is why Mike Brandt was elected. I think that, I have to commend the Board for going down for doing what they said they were doing which was to save money because that is what the citizens of the Town want they want some fiscal responsibility they want to save money they do not want to be taxed out of their home. That is a current, that is a constant theme that I hear all the time and I commend the Board for working toward that goal. Supervisor Brandt-Thank you. Anyone else? Ms. Lynn Potenza-Lynn Potenza, Moorwood Drive Queensbury It is surprising, Hi Mike, it is surprising if you wait long enough how you come full circle in some things. As a member of the previous administration I have taken several shots from this Board on decision I supported when I sat where you sit. I am not quite sure how long you will continue to blame the previous board and not take responsibility for your own decision to be honest I hope it is not past December 31st. In any event I voted for the expansion of the Water Dept. contemplating the regionalization of government which Queensbury leading the way selling its water and I strongly still believe in that program. In all the reports that we have read whether it has been from the previous administration or this administration. All the facts point that the present Water Dept. is managed economically run efficiently and it is the best water department in the region. I do not understand why you are contemplating a change in this particular department. And two years ago, you Mr. Tucker, came to me and asked me not to vote on the decision to expand the water dept. and you said to me it was unfair of me to make that vote and for the better decision for the Town of Queensbury not to vote and I said to you I was concerned about the conflict between Mr. Brandt and Mr. Flaherty and I thought for the betterment of the Town I would vote on it. So, I guess we have come full circle the shoe is on the other foot. Councilman Tucker-I do not remember that conversation at all. Ms. Potenza-Well it truly did take place. Councilman Tucker-The only one that I talked to about the addition to the water plant was Steve Borgos. Ms. Potenza-Pliney, every comment I hear from you, you have said in the press and you have said in the public my claim to fame is that I have perfect attendance to all of the meetings so you were at the meeting we had the conversation if you have a lack Supervisor Brandt-I know that tomorrow is election day but this is DPU hearing so lets talk about the DPU. Ms. Potenza-Well, all right then back to the DPU. I am asking you Mr. Tucker Mr. Sullivan-...talked about the dump.. Jet me do it Ms. Potenza-I am asking you Mr. Tucker not to vote for the Department of Utilities, I am asking you to withhold your vote as I do with the other Board Members and let the new administration make the vote, make the decision, have a say as you have asked me two years ago. Thank you and I am anxious to hear your comments. Councilman Monahan-Lynn, I would like Ms. Potenza-I would like to hear from Mr. Tucker. Councilman Monahan-Ok. I would like to give you some information. Supervisor Brandt-This is a public hearing on a Department of Public Utilities I know tomorrow is election day but we will get thorough it. Ms. Potenza-Timing Michel you did it very well. Supervisor Brandt-Today is a public hearing and the next person who would like to speak on a department of public utilities come on forth. Councilman Monahan-Excuse me a minute but I think earlier Lynn asked a very valid question. Town Board Members two of them one actually asked this question last Thursday night and finally got the information. I have got part of the information from scuttlebutt through the town you asked who the committee was working on Mike's management advisory team as he calls it within the Town Dept. I am going to tell you, Ralph VanDusen, Jim Martin, Harry Hansen, E. 1. Christensen, Paul Dusek that is the information that was given to me as a result of a question by Mr. Nick Caimano thursday evening last week. Supervisor Brandt-Anybody else who would like to speak. Ms. Potenza-I am not getting a response from Mr. Tucker. Unknown-Are we not going to hear any dialogue from the Town Board Members on this? Supervisor Brandt-This is a public hearing for input on ... I understand that you guys are running against each other. Unknown-I am not running against anyone ... Supervisor Brandt -Get on Speak Up and do it. Ms. Potenza-I am a Republican it does not make me a second class citizen. All I want to .... Supervisor Brandt -Go ahead. Mr. Brian LaFlure-My name is Brian LaFlure I am Chief of the Queensbury Central Fire Dept. I had heard a lot of rhetoric here tonight being a past Republican Committeeman which I am very proud of I also feel that it is time that we asked some pertinent questions to the DPU. We have heard about the eleventh hour decision made on the expansion to the building we have heard about all the things and the reasons why people are here and not here tonight. What I would like to talk about is what does the DPU do to those of us that live in breath the streets of Queensbury every night and day? I take this very seriously and so do all the volunteers and emergency services in Queensbury would take a lot of heat for the budget that we have we do a good job we work very hard when we see something coming down the road like this that could seriously effect our water source and the things that we need to make us do our job and to do it right we feel that we need to ask these questions. So, my question to the Board and to you Mike I had not made my decision on this whole plan but I do see some things here that I am curious will these things create a problem a lack of service a delay in service that the emergency service people in the Town might be looking toward. I would just like to make one comment a quick story. About eight weeks ago we had a situation on Aviation Road where a eight thousand gallon gasoline tanker blew a hose and put between two and three hundred gallons of high octane gasoline into the storm sewer system in the Town of Queensbury. A lot of people did not know that, that was a very hazardous situation a very dangerous situation. The temperature was over ninety degrees the fumes were raising out of every storm drain from Aviation Road Hill to Price Chopper on Glen Street. We had a very serious situation the fire department response and more importantly the response of the wastewater people and Tom Flaherty, Mike Shaw and the group that showed up, Rick Missita and the guys from the Highway Dept. without their help I do not know if we could have averted a disaster. Those kinds of people are important to us if there needs to be a way to cut costs in the water treatment facility or in that department I think it is fine that we look for that. I am a taxpayer in Queensbury and I will be glad to pay less taxes anytime you want. But, the bottom line is what do these cuts, what do these things that we see here are they going to effect the people that we rely on every single day to make sure the water comes out of the hydrants to make sure they are not frozen to make sure the caps come off when we need them to make sure they are not buried in snow six feet high. We need to know that the group the laborers, the plow guys the people that service the hydrants the mechanics we need to know that these people who possibly may be on this cut list are they the guys that we need, are they the guys that we have to have, if so who is going to do this job? Supervisor Brandt-There are some statements, there are some questions. Mr. LaFlure-I agree. Supervisor Brandt-There has been a discussion in our committee on how we can re-organize services and in particular you are talking about the water department and hydrants and service of water. I think in perspective there are several things that we are decided here. First of all we started with the discussion about the size of the water treatment plant and we down sized it to what the Town of Queensbury wants. One of the discussions that have come up is regionalization of water treatment and it is not legal for us to go to our water district and put a twenty million dollar plant on their backs for somebody else it is legal if other communities want to come up and pay their share and build with us an expanded plant. There is not that interest nobody had come forth or very few people have come forth to do that willing to pay their share. So, the first decision was to down size the plant. If you down size the plant then you start looking at what it costs to run that plant. We looked at other departments in other towns and how they did it. In looking at what we are doing, one of the things we looked at was potentially putting the tapping, the making of water taps for new houses out to the general contractors to bid and to get out of that business ourselves. The general contracting business may in fact charge more to do it than we do on the other hand they are going to charge what the real costs are. It is not going to be subsidized with taxes, if you take that piece of work away from our crews then we look at how to reorganize our crews and how they would do it. I think the bottom line is that all the same maintenance will be accomplished on hydrants on the plant on operating the plant so that when you want water you will have water. Together with an expansion of that plant that we are contemplating we will be going to public hearings with that in the coming months I think you are going to be proud of the water system that is there. That will be here for many years to come. I think it will meet your needs. Can a Department of Public Utilities respond to your needs I think absolutely they can and I think they can do it very professionally. Mr. LaFlure-Ok, Mike, thanks for your answer. Again I just want to re-iterate our concern, I understand what you are trying to accomplish I sat in on some of the meetings for the expansion of the Water Treatment Plant I brought up some ideas on redundancy and some things that were not in the plans and I sure that you have included those and I think that is good. I still am very concerned that the knowledge and the capabilities of the people that we have in place now in the water department and in some of the other areas I really hate to see those people disappear because a few incidence, the incident that I mentioned that happened this sununer one of many those gentlemen knew exactly where to go what to do and how to deal with it and I hate to see that kind of experience be lost. So, I would hope that in the Town Board's zeal to go ahead here and try to put in this department good or bad I want to make sure that we do not lose something that is a real asset to the Town. Thank you. Councilman Monahan-Brian, if you sat in on some of the meetings about the water plant expansion you do realize that the water plant has been deliberate undersized. If we have a hot summer with a high demand of water, the water may have to be rationed, it is going to call for water conservation. As a volunteer fire fighter I think you need to be aware that this... Mr. LaFlure-I was involved in that conversation Betty, I wasn't going to bring it up here tonight because I did not know that it was pertinent but to be very honest with you I was very concerned about that discussion. When I get a call at 2 o'clock in the morning on a night that is 100 degrees and it has been for ten days and someone from the water department says oh by the way there is not enough water pressure north of the Great Escape to put a fire out you better have a tanker plan. That concerns the hell out of me. I am responsible for that millions of dollars that has to be dealt with and that is where I know when we get into the public hearings on the water treatment plant that needs to be dealt with. Councilman Monahan-But, I think it is also pertinent here because we are talking about men we are talking about equipment and we ought to be putting the real picture out there what we are talking about and we are talking about I have listen over here, heard a lot of garbage here about the water department tonight and so I want to make sure that everybody in this room knows that, that water plant expansion has been designed to be purposely under capacity. Supervisor Brandt-I do not believe that is true at all. That is your opinion and you are welcome to that opmlOn. Councilman Monahan-Mike, you have stated it yourself, in public meetings that if we had a hot summer it was going to call for water rationing and water conservation, these people could not have unlimited use of the water as they have been used to in the Town of Queensbury. That was the statement that you made, I am sure I can go back and find it if I have to. Supervisor Brandt -You may want to pull it out. We will talk water treatment plant when it comes up we will have a lot of time to look at that and we are going to build a plant the public wants and can afford. This is a Department of Public Utilities hearing and I would like to stay on the subject and next who would like to speak. Ms. MaryLee Gosline-MaryLee Gosline, 25 Blind Rock Road I am not a politician I am not running for anything I attended quite a few of the meetings I attended the meeting when you pleaded for the Board not to put on the addition to the water department. I was here four weeks ago when you had another meeting on the utilities. The thing that concerns me is when Mr. Tucker I am not in Ward IV, when Mr. Tucker is asked a question you answer it. If everybody on this Board is supposed to be an equal vote why can't Mr. Tucker speak I do not want to embarrass the man I do not want to put the man in a bad position. I feel that you are putting him in a bad position, because you are politically embarrassing him. I think you should let him speak he is a man. Supervisor Brandt-I think Mr. Tucker, wants to speak he gets plenty of chance to speak. If! speak in his case I am sorry I certainly do not mean to do that. If I have an answer to a question and someone asks I will give it if I think it is the right, the answer. If I have it I do not think there is anything wrong with that. But, Mr. Tucker can speak for himself. Ms. Gosline-Well I hope so, because four weeks ago someone said I am asking Mr. Tucker a question you said, I will answer that. I left here in awe I could not believe it. Supervisor Brandt -You need to give your name for the record because it is an official hearing. Mr. Bob Fuller-My name is Bob Fuller, I live in Queensbury. I happened, Mike you might be interested in this, today is November 1, 1993 and I have my notes from your inaugural January of 1991 or 1992. Ijust want to go over these briefly with you and I think they do pertain in a very specific way to your department of public utilities and what you have in mind is going to take us down the road and into the future. The first thing you wanted to do was you wanted to down size government a little bit and you wanted to save money you wanted to do something to for long term planning and the one thing that you said that struck, that struck me was that you wanted to have some good ideas implemented that go along, long after you are gone. It is my personal feeling and feeling of a lot of other people I am sure that the action of this Town Board and the conduct of the department of public utilities and how you, how you envision it and how you share that vision and how you act with it will benefit Queensbury and I will just say thank you. Thank you. Supervisor Brandt-Next. Mr. Charles DeMars-For the record My name is Mr. DeMars and I live in Ward IV Town of Queensbury. I enjoy living in Queensbury I always have. I have been a citizen of this area for over thirty years when I have seen Michael make this attempt for re-organization, to reorganize something that isn't broken I asked myself what is the real purpose of doing what you are doing. After thinking that I could almost answer myself because I have read the paper several times and I know that there is a conflict. I will not get into detail we have not got to be a phi beta kappa to figure out just exactly what it going on. What I do want to get into detail is, is about this public utilities. It's almost ends like public works but it is public utilities. I think if we label it public works we would be legally in trouble. But, now that we have labeled it public utilities it is more accepted practice. We can digest this a little bit better. I think the problem that I have with this Mike is we do not need it. The voters never needed something like this. Water is a commodity, commodity, oil is a commodity, oil brings money, water brings money. It is to the benefit of this Town that we stick with that way of thinking. As far as the building over there being over sized, it is sized for the future. You just made the statement Mike that your thinking of the future for the Town as far as the Water Dept. is concerned. Our previous, our previous board was also thinking of the future. Don't try to take credit where other people have actually thought out the process. As far as Mr. Tucker speaking for himself, there are two doctors today that have decided that cloning of a person can be done, its done it has happened on this board. Councilman Caimano- I resent that. Mr. DeMars-lam sorry if it, it is probably not meant for everybody. Mike you come up with a good layout here I, if you talk about administration layout this seems to be a good layout of drawing of diagrams and stuff but what bothers me the most is to have a community development, planning head in charge of animal control. It does not make sense. Supervisor Brandt-We are talking about a department of public utilities. Mr. DeMars-It's all, the bottom line is what you have drawn that is what I am referring to. Supervisor Brandt-This is a public hearing on the department of public utilities, we have been in office almost two years and if you want to bring up everything we have done as part of the department of public utilities it probably does not fit. So, maybe we ought to stick to the department of public utilities. Mr. DeMars-Well if! stuck to the department of public utilities the rest of the people in the public probably would really say we do not really need it just like I am saying, we do not need a department of public utilities, it is not broken Michel don't try to fit it. As far as you representing us, I did a little research at Warren County as far as you representing us at Warren County which is very important, it is very important it all has to come down to this. The research that I did at Warren County, of 19, lets see, Board Meetings the Warren County Board of Supervisor's you missed seven of them in 1992 Unknown-What has that got to do with the Board of Public Utilities? Mr. DeMars-It has a lot to do with it. Supervisor Brandt-I missed seven committee meetings at the County. Mr. DeMars-Yes you did you missed seven committee meetings. It has a lot to do with it, it has a lot to do with it. What it is, the bottom line is, administration, you call yourself an administrator this is what it has to do with it. In 1993 you missed five meetings. Unknown-Point of order Mr. Brandt, I do not understand, this gentlemen..his point to part of the department of public utilities, I would certainly accept that, but at this point in time I do not think he is addressing his point to the question at hand. I would like you to chose a point of order on the present point. Supervisor Brandt -Would you come back to the department of public utilities and talk about that please. Mr. DeMars-He was not at the microphone I did not hear anything. I am up here to address you, I have things to say. Supervisor Brandt-Address us about the department of public utilities I think that is reasonable. Mr. DeMars-Well the things that I do want to address you about will be about the department of utilities, the formation of the department of utilities Unknown-...clarify his point then. Mr. DeMars-I have no real point to clarify Unknown-Thank you Mr. Brandt Unknown-Thank you very much. Unknown-I think he should be dismissed from the mic. Councilman Monahan-Mike, I think this meeting is getting out of hand here. Supervisor Brandt-Listen we do our best to hear out our citizens, I do my best, ..let everybody speak as much as possible but this is a public hearing on a subject it is not open forum you are welcome to speak to us again at open forum at the end of the meeting to talk about anything you want to right now it is a public utilities public hearing so if you could address to that, it would be better. Mr. DeMars-Really, I do not address to intimidation I am not going to back away from the microphone I am up here to address the issues. The issues are the department of public utilities which I am getting to. Supervisor Brandt -Go right ahead. Mr. DeMars-I am working around it. It is like some people have to work around a dump but on TV in order to get recognition I have to get recognition this way, I am working around it. As far as the administration head page five, salary, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury shall fix, I am highlighting fix the salary of the director, what does that entail, fixing? Isn't that already figured in a budget of some sorts? Supervisor Brandt-That's one in the same thing. Mr. DeMars-One in the same thing? The salary will be paid from the general fund of the Town of Queensbury. And the Town Board may assess the salary upon any improvement or benefit direct to the Town which receives the services of the director. I do not understand this, director is going to handle all the services all, everything? What is going to happen here? Supervisor Brandt-He is going to be handling some wastewater work he is going to be handling some water department work those are special districts. They have different tax bases then a general fund so the work that is done for those districts can be allocated to those districts, they are different taxpayers. Mr. DeMars-How can one person possible absorb all that and to be able to absorb all of that and represent the taxpayers? Supervisor Brandt-I do not think it is a problem. Mr. DeMars-In otherwords you have already got somebody for that particular position is what I am saying. Supervisor Brandt-The Town Attorney does that all the time, he represents us for special districts, he represents us for the general fund, it is up to the Town Board if they want to allocate his expenses out to the various districts or if they don't. That is essentially what this law is providing, you can do it if you want to and if you, it gives you the authorization to do it. Councilman Caimano-Is your question whether or not we have appointed someone or there has been an appointment to this job? Mr. DeMars-Yes. That is basically what I would say. The original appointment. Supervisor Brandt-No. Mr. DeMars-So basically there really is not a plan other than what we see here. Supervisor Brandt-I don't really know what you are asking. Mr. DeMars-What I am asking for this Board to not vote on this thing tonight. This Board should not take a position of voting for something where there is no documented real... plan. You are asking the Board to commit themselves each an every individual that is on this Board in that direction which you should not be committing at all. Thank you. Supervisor Brandt-Thank you. Mr. John ....-My name is John ...1 live on Bay Road here in Ward II I will surprise everybody this a question about the public utilities. My concern is if this is the document that the Town Board is looking to vote on as it's handed out to the public here tonight, my question is, I am reading on page six, 127-5 I am reading the paragraphs pertaining to sections A and C. Between these two sections and maybe I am missing something and if I am that is why I am up here asking, I see A to C directly contradicting itself. I see a problem when basically if you read to A to C I see a problem in the sense that I get the impressing that the Town Board who ever it should be at the time the Supervisor who ever it should be at the time is basically giving itself a blank check to shift and or move around anything having to do with this department of public utilities. That kind of worries me, because at that point regardless of what happens with this I see the whim of the Town Board being used to move around people that it sees fit or unfit to be in this department. Maybe I am misreading it, but if I am I am just looking for a clarification and if I am not misreading it then I am asking the Town Board not vote on it as it is written here tonight. Supervisor Brandt-I do not know if you are aware of it but the Town Board really has that power now, it really runs the Town, it can move employees it can make any change it wants to it is pretty much the administrator of the Town. So, in re-organizing it what you have done is preserve the Town Board's rights to run the business as they see fit. It is not meant as a law to interfere with the Town Board rights, its meant as an organization for them to use to better manage the Town. Councilman Caimano-John, as I understand what your concern is, is that this law is technically built on a shifting sand bed in that whatever we say here tonight could be, or could not be because of those two paragraphs. Mr. John ...-What we are voting on here tonight, or actually what you as the Town Board are voting on here tonight this could all be shot in four months because you could have a director of public utilities and if we keep changing him at the whim of the Board then I do not see how a brand new department if it is voted in is ever going to adhere and to become a cohesive part of the Town and help the functioning of the Town government. I guess also it comes back a little bit to page two where we are talking about superseding state laws. Again, I am just looking for a clarification. Supervisor Brandt-That is legalese if you want to describe that. Attorney Dusek-I do not know if! understand the question. Councilman Caimano-He wants to know why you have 127-3 about State Laws being superseded, pretty straight forward. Attorney Dusek-The reason why those sections are put in are couple of reasons, one is the term is set for four years which is different than what is normally either at the pleasure of the Town Board or two years terms or other specific terms set forth so to be sure that there is no question as to that part of the law that superseded there the other thing that is happening here is that there is no provision under Town Law for a department of public utilities. If you look through the Town Law you will not find it there you will find other department listed but you will not find a department of public utilities so to the extent that, that isn't provided for this is some addition or extra that the Town has a right under the municipal home rule law to add and that is why it is indicating that those sections of the law are being superseded. Supervisor Brandt-You understand get that one John? Mr. John ...-Yea. Supervisor Brandt-Who is next? Mr. Paul H. Naylor-For the record, Paul H. Naylor, Highway Supt. Mr. Tucker, this is for you, you are the Chairman of my Highway Committee when are you and me going to talk about this? After the fact or before the fact? Where do we come into it? Me and you talked for a lot of years about them and me, when you were just one of us out here and we should kept them on that side and me on that side I do not know how many times you told me that. So, I guess I am asking tonight are you for this idea? Councilman Tucker-Pretty good idea, Paul. Mr. Naylor-It is? Councilman Tucker-Yea. Mr. Naylor-Then you are going to vote for it? Councilman Tucker-I do not know what I am going to do. It is a good idea. Mr. Naylor-Are you going to vote for it? Councilman Tucker-It is a pretty good idea. Mr. Naylor-That is not what I asked you pal. Are you going to vote for it? Councilman Tucker-Probably. Mr. Naylor-That is what I wanted to know. Councilman Monahan-Paul before you leave could I ask you a question please? Mr. Naylor-Your vote won't count anyways, Bet. Councilman Monahan-It goes back to Highway Law, Under DPU here we have drainage. What is your responsibility for drainage under Highway Law? Or do you do it just to be a good guy for us? Mr. Naylor-As long as it involved highways my colleague over there Mr. F. Lee Bailey, I would say if you got involved with the roads and drainage you better check with me. Councilman Monahan-Thank you. Mr. Naylor-I do not think you better go digging around my roads without my permission right Mr. Dusek? Attorney Dusek-Anything that effects the immediate highway would falls under the jurisdiction of Paul, anything, there are drainage instances where there is drainage purely for the protection of homes that would be under the Town Board's jurisdiction and then frequently you have situations that both parties get involved because they have the funding capacity you have the legal authorization as far as the work is done. Mr. Naylor-That is what I was talking with an Attorney today he thought the greatest idea was just like the library, you know how the library is separately funded, I think that is the way the Highway Dept. should be, separately funded and voted on by the public and let the Town Board out of this so I do not ever have to come and see them again. Councilman Monahan-Paul, could I ask you one more question please? Mr. Naylor-Sure. Councilman Monahan- In the budget, some highway equipment that you want is not to be owned by the Highway a tandem truck fore instances is to be owned by the department of public utilities I really do not see what other department would have much use for tandem truck but then I am not a construction person. Mr. Naylor-I did a speak up program on that the other day if you listened we have talked about them extra wheels keep on turning. Councilman Monahan-I am talking about using them for any other department. Mr. Naylor-I do not know what they are going to do. I have no idea what this PU is or DPU or whatever you call it. Councilman Monahan-What is the law about who owns the equipment that the Highway Dept. uses? Mr. Naylor-The Highway Dept. which falls under my jurisdiction by law. Attorney Dusek-If you want to get technical the Town owns the equipment but it is under the control and supervision of Town Highway Supt. Councilman Monahan-And it has been purposely moved out of the custody and control by the person who put the budget together to be put under the control of the department of public utilities that is what we were told during a budget meeting which was open to the public. Supervisor Brandt -Absolutely the vehicle that I am proposing would be in the department of public utilities and available to the Highway Dept. and that is what I told you, that whatever facilities we have in our personnel would be available to help Mr. Naylor with the Highway Dept. and his priorities of snow removal or salting or sanding comes first. Mr. Naylor-How many guys are you going to have in that, how many guys are you taking away from me, I cannot figure it out in the budget yet. When are we going to have a budget hearing so I can find out what is going on or aren't we going to have one? Councilman Goetz-Thursday. Mr. Naylor-Did they listen to you about the extra snowmen or are they not paying any attention to you? Councilman Goetz-I hope, as far as I know to some extent. Mr. Naylor-About ninety five thousand dollars you know, it is good think you are going out of office or they would shoot you. Councilman Goetz-I want to do the right thing. Supervisor Brandt-Paul, as you know, in a discussion we had between Mr. Naylor-Oh yea. Supervisor Brandt -Oh yea what? Mr. Naylor-I know the discussion we had. Supervisor Brandt-I said as you know in that discussion you expressed that you would like to have some more people and this budget staffs more people for that and for you for plowing and for wing people. That was the discussion that took place between the Town Board and yourself and we tried to accommodate that. Mr. Naylor-We also said we needed a contract. Supervisor Brandt-That is right. Mr. Naylor-To keep everything honest and above board and keep us straight. Supervisor Brandt-And we all agreed to that. We are willing to work on that and we are continuing to work on that. So, I think we have made some progress. Mr. Naylor-I have been trying to ...on themselves have got to tell you I do not know what you are going to do with these guys but I will be great to ship about ten of them over to you when I do not need them and you can pay them and then I take them back when you do not need them. Supervisor Brandt-And in fact there are times where you really do not need them and there are times when we may not need them and the fact that we can find capital projects for them to work on at these times it can be a benefit to everybody. I think that is what we are talking about. During our discussion you are willing to work on that and so aren't we. Mr. Naylor-You know by law we are only allowed to do certain things in the winter or we are breaking the law and the same way goes in the summer. So, until you can change some of the laws then I do not know if... Supervisor Brandt-We can lend people back an forth between departments toward a vehicle that is laid out the department of public utilities that has construction jobs set up for it the construction work can be done under your command as well as under their commend that is a matter of working together between departments and I think that is the beauty of the system. It is setting up a mechanism where you can make long term plans where you can have on going communications where you can have lists of stuff ready to go and move people from one job to the next efficiently.. Mr. Naylor-From what I have seen of some of it I am going to be sitting out doors because I do not have no offices I do not have no garage I do not have nothing, everything is zero on my side I hope that changes next Thursday, Susie. Supervisor Brandt-Wait a minute are you saying you do not have offices to work out of? Mr. Naylor-I do not see it in this budget, that I see there is a lot of zero's that shows where the DPU has the control of the building. Supervisor Brandt-No the building is called a shared service instead of a highway department and that is a difference and that's reflecting under the law a sharing offacilities and there is nothing wrong with sharing facilities for the good of the taxpayer. Mr. Naylor-As long as we are sharing we are not getting... Councilman Monahan-Paul, you talked about staffing I do not know if you have seen this or not you lose your deputy highway supt., your mechanics you have three this shows in 1994 two going to at the department and one to the DPU, ATO's you have four now you are going to have in 94 two with you two with DPU, MEO's you have 13 now 94 shows seven at the department four going to DPU and that's your loop too, Labor A '93 seven, '94 five staying with you two going to DPU and so there is no loss there. I also foresee with the philosophy down the road I wonder how much equipment you are going to have control over. Mr. Naylor-I will let you know at quarter after nine tomorrow night. Supervisor Brandt -Ok. Who is next? Who would like to speak next. Mr. Ronald Montesi-I would like to talk Councilman Caimano-Name. Mr. Ronald Montesi-Ron Montesi, 6 Cobblestone Drive I guess we are talking about a management style here Mike, for the future. It is a little disconcerting when you are putting together this department of public utilities that two of the Board members did not know who the Board was supposed to have appointed and I always thought that the Attorney and some of the workers here were under the jurisdiction of the Town Board but needless to say we have a little communication gap here. But, with regards Supervisor Brandt-I missed your point so, make it explicit. Mr. Montesi-The point is we are talking about working together, we are talking about making things work and gel and right from the get go, right from the start here the committee that is putting this thing together isn't even gelling with the full Town Board, they did not even know who was on this committee, that is just a little disconcerting because Mrs. Monahan, had to state the members tonight. Irregardless, lets get on to the Water Dept. which is part or parcel of this department of public utilities is a sperate tax district we all know that it represents maybe forty percent of the population of the Town of Queensbury. I think that is a relatively accurate figure maybe I am off five or six percent, so that whatever dollars we were going to save in the water district in the water taxing district should be reflected someway in some form in that $200. bill that Mrs. Fuller was talking about that she felt so sorry for those Seniors that were paying $200. a year. So, I gather that maybe this public utilities thing when it gets done will show a savings to the water users because we are getting rid of Flaherty and some other things maybe it would be only $150. or I do not know what people should be paying for water but $200. a year for pure water seems reasonable maybe it is high. With regards to, yea there is one other comment that I just have to address. Mrs. Fuller made $27,000. a year and she talks about some exorbitant salaries of $35 and $38 for department heads, people that ran whole departments, as your assistant she was at $27,000 thank goodness for the previous Town Board because she got a good job. Supervisor Brandt-Ron, the previous Town Board had two people in the Town Supervisor's Office. One of them has lost their job and is gone. Mr. Montesi-One Secretary and one assistant. Supervisor Brandt-That job was $27,000 the same in fact Mrs. Monahan was the one that insisted that this person that came on board who is normally the Supervisor's Secretary and every Supervisor has had one, be given a raise to equal the other person that you guys had put in that office. Councilman Monahan-That is not accurate. Supervisor Brandt-Now wait a minute, I have got the floor right now and I would like to get it out. Mr. Montesi-But I am not arguing that point, the $27,000 Supervisor Brandt -You are trying to make.. .now wait a minute, I understand it is a political year and I understand you are trying to dig me and say that I created a position and I didn't, so lets talk about. Mr. Montesi-No I am not, what I am trying to say to you is the $27,000 a year is a fair price to command for quality people, $35,000 to $38,000 is a fair price to command for quality people to run departments, maybe they were not at that level when the previous Board started they got to that level they shouldn't be chastised. That is what I am saying. Would Mrs. Fuller work for $21,000 that was, it was two years before. Supervisor Brandt-The public hearing isn't about Mrs. Fuller ideas of wage scale. Mr. Montesi-I know that. Supervisor Brandt-The public hearing is about the DPU. Mr. Montesi-Ok. The last thing that I want to say about this is that, it seems inopportune to hold this public meeting tonight on the eve of an election. Obviously its been pushed to this point, I am not sure what purpose it serves. If the Board feels tonight, with a three to two vote that they want to vote on this it is a done deal. If the public is going to be heard I think the public is better heard tomorrow in the election booth. Win or lose, if you lose, Mike you have to look at this public utilities law with some concern, because maybe the voters have said I don't think you are going in the right direction. If you win, I think the other two members of this Board have to look at it and say perhaps the public is speaking. That probably would have been better served next week with a public hearing instead of tonight. Supervisor Brandt-Who is next? Mr. Fred Champagne-Good evening. I think my name is Fred Champagne I do reside at Lake Sunnyside off Bay Road, been there for thirty eight years I happen to be a candidate for what is known as Supervisor for the Town of Queensbury. Mike and I had a good day today at the WWSC I hope the audience tonight are well aware that we were complemented on our gentlemen like behavior and I feel real good about that. But, just let me in summary here I have a whole stack of notes that I was going to go through but ninety nine percent of that has already been covered. I just like to call to your attention to a report that I received on the Water Dept. which I guess a nine thousand dollar report that came through not awfully long ago that said this in terms of recommendation, under 3.011 it talked about the management staff. Here is what it said: The management staff in the Town's Water Dept. is a functional organization that provides cost effective management and can be characterized as follows: 1. The present operation is very well run, highly productive, cost effective and produces revenue. Number two reads: With potential future growth of the water department and the water system the current organizational structure can continue to operate the entire system with little need for increasing administrative staff in size. Number three reads: The management is well trained and qualified to perform their duties. Now, Mike, Nine thousand dollars this Board selected a professional staff consultants to come in and perform this review and in fact they came back with these recommendations. It behooves me why at this point in time we are really looking at this change. My other concern is going back to my original notes here and my first item was, lets be specific, what really are the problems out there that we are trying to fix? As Tom Peters would say in his book, if it isn't broken don't fix it, Mike what is broken? I am asking a question what is broken? Supervisor Brandt-Is there anything wrong with trying to save some money and trying to organize better, that is what we are trying to do, is there something broken, it is not broken, the water department runs very well, you know that, I know that. Mr. Champagne-Yea, we all know that. Supervisor Brandt-Can it be run for less money, I think it can and that is what our responsibility is and we are addressing that. I do not think there is anything wrong with that. Mr. Champagne-Well, again when I look at the spending reductions in the department that your proposing what I find here basically is that we are going to eliminate a laborer, we are going to get rid of a secretary we are going to get rid of a lab laborer and on and on into the department or into the Highway Dept. and you know in reality if you really believe Mike as you look across the colunm here and you find where you zeroed out it doesn't take a space scientist to realize that in order to do, in order to provide the services that are being provided today you are just not going to be able to do that. My other thought is this, and before I summarize my statement tonight, I am firm believer or looking at the organization the structure of how we are operating and believe me if there are some downsizing and cost effectiveness I am the first guy to sign up for that. But I really believe that we do need to examine it more carefully. I think we do need to do a complete needs assessment for total town not just the organization here or the various departments you have identified you know if you look at, excuse me here while I thumb through this, but I see recreation sticking out here on its own and now is going to become the responsible lead for building, grounds and parks, that frightens me. Will Harry Hansen be in charge of grounds and maintenance, buildings and parks? Supervisor Brandt-To start with that is the way it is set up. Mr. Champange- That is what bothers me too, to start with Mike, to me we need a through sound plan. I do not want to look at just an organizational chart I am really not interested in a budget, I am interested in an outcomes what is it that we are going to expect down the line? Before I get all excited here and keep on talking, I have got to tell you this, if I am elected tomorrow Mike, I am going to undo this thing, it will be undone. Thank you. Supervisor Brandt -Ok, next? Candidates love these public hearings before an election. Councilman Monahan-You gave them the opportunity. Mr. Sullivan-Mr. Brandt my question is this, when Mr. Champagne asked if Mr. Hansen was going to be the director I do not understand that is that an office that is going to be in charge of it or is it one individual is going to be in charge of it is it an appointed office that is going to be in charge of that office or is it an individual who will hold that position .... Supervisor Brandt-We will get to that, lets talk about... Mr. Sullivan-Mr. Brandt, I asked a question, Mr. Champagne mentioned the fact that Mr. Hansen would hold this office now, .. Supervisor Brandt-It is not an office no. Mr. Sullivan-Thank you Mr. Brandt. ok. Supervisor Brandt -Carol Ms. Carol Pulver-Ok, for the record, my name is Carol Pulver I am a candidate I haven't always been a candidate in fact I am sorry that I am here as a candidate because I am unsure whether or not my comments are going to be taken seriously. But one thing I will assure everyone in this room that if I am elected tomorrow and you ask me a question the answer will come out of my mouth. I do have several questions here I have asked several of these the last time on the last proposal that we had and then of course I do have a couple of new ones. To you Mr. Brandt my question is at the last public hearing you implied the public will receive more details when the budget was completed after reviewing your current plan we still lack specific job descriptions and responsibilities for the people in the new organization. How can you even suggest and adopt a plan that lacks so much organizational detail and when do you expect to give the public these details if the plan is passed. Supervisor Brandt-The organization has developed as we went, there I do not know when I can give you all of the details, a lot of them really have to be, first you have to decide if you want to do it as a Town Board if you want to do it, how much, then you get into all the details of what's on the table and then it is up to the Town Board to decide that is what they want to do or if they want to change that. We are making a suggestion of an organization to fill in every detail of it pretty hard to do and meet the deadlines that we have to meet on budget. I have a certain amount of it but I do not have every detail of it. Mrs. Pulver-Another question I have, how much study have you or your committee given to alternative re- organizational plans? Supervisor Brandt-We have looked at different ideas informally, my gosh that is one of the complaints we hadn't, some of the members of the Board felt we had too many organizational charts that we looked at but what happened there was an evolution of thought and this is what came out of it. Mrs. Pulver-I have a question for Mrs. Goetz, and that's the waste water superintendent has shown that his job cannot be done on a part time basis as chairperson of this committee how can you justify Mr. Brandt's plan that wants to make his position a part time position? Councilman Goetz-It has never been my impression that it is going to be anything less than what it is right now. Councilman Monahan-Where were you are the budget meetings? Councilman Goetz-I was right there. Councilman Monahan-My God. ...between two departments. Councilman Goetz-Betty try to control yourself. Councilman Monahan-Where were you? Councilman Goetz-I just said it was my impression at the Budget workshop and before that, that Mike's job was going to be exactly what it is today and maybe some added jobs that would come with the new re- organization. I have a high respect for Mike Shaw, I want him to have the same functions that he has had, Hi Mike, and that is one reason why I support it. Ms. Pulver-Well the appearance is that it is not a full time job and I think, that is something that needs to be clarified then because obviously I have the same opinion as some other people in the audience and Mrs. Monahan. That was not a full time position. Councilman Monahan-Maybe we went to a different meeting Carol. Councilman Goetz-Maybe I could answer the question, Carol, thanks for asking it, because that is one question that I had right in the beginning and I do feel the job is going to be what it has been it maybe allotted a little differently in the budget and I believe we will probably get into that Thursday evening at the public hearing on the budget. Ms. Pulver-Well, I will have to be sure that I am here. for that. I have a question for you and Mr. Tucker and my reason is that I know both of you have been in favor of past plans and we have seen many different proposals presented at several different meetings and both you and Mr. Tucker have pretty much rubber stamped each of these proposals as just right I would like to know how you expect the Queensbury Taxpayer to believe that this particular proposal that we are looking at right now is just right when it has no more information on it than the other proposals. Councilman Goetz-Ok. After the last public hearing on the issue I really was concerned that maybe we did not have all the information that we should have so I went back to the book that we got at a training that the Town Board Members went to when they were first elected held by Cornell Cooperative Extension. That gave what the purpose of a public hearing was and as I read that information it said that the function of the Town Board was just to sit there and listen and really try not to get into debating with the public but really listen to their input. You were not supposed to have all the answers at that time and I really think that, that public hearing was just exactly what it should have been because there were so many good suggestions that came up and I feel now, a lot of votes have been implemented and as the howling goes on I have become at peace with my decision to go with this plan. Because I think when I hear all the howling I know that I am doing the right thing. And it has been getting louder and louder and I think I have enough answers to vote on it in a positive manner. I do not think that we ever see a perfect document no matter what it is. I feel that we need to go on, you know you can study it to death. Ms. Pulver-At the last public hearing for this plan I sat here and you specifically took notes to be sure that you were getting everyone of my words down Councilman Goetz-I did too, I still have them. Ms. Pulver-Which was were are the job descriptions, and the salaries and everything and you said oh my well we are going to be sure that we get that, I still have not seen that. That was the first question I asked to night. Councilman Goetz-I think probably what I said was that your point was well taken, and it is something that needs to be done. Also that night you wanted a list of equipment. Ms. Pulver-No, not me. Councilman Goetz-Yes, you did, you said you really like to have it available at the next public hearing so just because you brought that up and I did refer to your list. Ms. Pulver-I just read all the minutes tonight it was not me. Councilman Goetz-Yes, it was. But I am not going to sit here and argue with you over it. But you have a lot of good points and I still have all the notes and I have reviewed them and I think that we need to go on from here and I am ready to vote on it tonight in a positive manner. One reason is because I think it is so closely tied in to the proposed budget, which we are going to be discussing on Thursday night and I think they go hand and glove. Ms. Pulver-My last couple of thoughts is the public has spoken out against this plan and past plans and yet we have continued to go forward very much in the same way as you did on the ethics law. Besides saving $200,000 what else will be accomplished by this new budget proposal since we already have been told that the water department is running efficiently. Councilman Goetz-Ok. One reason that I am so for this idea is that I think it is going to take the good people that we have and let them manage and I really think it is exciting the opportunities that the labor pool is going to have. A lot of people are going to be able to get experience and may be different type jobs than they have had. I think it is going to make the managers enthusiastic about what kind of work they are doing for the Town. From what I have been told that is in evidence already of that management committee that has been working that there is a real positive attitude. Ms. Pulver-Where? Councilman Goetz-Amongst those people that are working on the committee, the committee that Betty named off. Ms. Pulver-I am glad the committee is so positive. Councilman Goetz-I think it is good to have positive feelings for once in the world. Ms. Pulver-Sure. I agree. As I have looked over this plan and the savings I have come up with that on a one hundred thousand dollar assessment we are going to save about nineteen dollars and I have spent the past weekend talking with my constituents about this plan and the consensus was that for nineteen dollars per one hundred thousand dollars of assessment.. Councilman Monahan-Carol, excuse me would you get that mic and your mouth in line please. Ms. Pulver-My mouth in the mic in line all right. Anyway, I spent the weekend talking with my constituents about the plan and the consensus was most of my constituents are not in favor of tearing the Town apart to save nineteen dollars per one hundred dollars of assessment and I too, very much like Mr. Champagne feel that if the Board passes this law and I am elected tomorrow I will not go forward with this law until I have had the opportunity to study the staffing needs and the budget needs and any other proposals that anyone may have. Supervisor Brandt-Who is next? Let everybody get a chance to speak first Hans. Let everybody get a chance to speak first before we go twice. Anyone else who hasn't spoken that would like to speak. In the back. Ms. Liz Valentee-My name is Liz Valentee, I live on Sweet Road in Queensbury. I just have a couple of observations from this meeting, I really wish we would abandon the concept of saving money, I almost wish we would change it to wasting money. Because sometimes saving money sounds good but you might cut things that we really need. I think the objective of most people and taxpayers today is they are annoyed with government for wasting money and I do not know if eliminating some positions would be considered to be the fact that these people are really not providing a necessary service to the Town. I have a little trouble with the idea of floating people back and forth between departments. I guess as an employer myself the reason for that is that I have over the years known that people work as a team there is a certain camaraderie between people that work together in a department. There is a certain pride with people that work together for many years. I know that when you are asked to float between positions sometimes those people have to be even more versatile because they are being asked to do you know a different amount of tasks. I think this is a very noble and ambitious attempt to like I said down size our departments and save some money, again like I said but I would rather see you not waste it. I really think that if it is necessary and you feel that there are too many people working in these departments like many of us have seen in this economy a lot of people have suffered and I do not want to see anybody lose their job but, if you feel that there are too many people employed maybe the easiest way would be to simply eliminate some positions. If you do not feel that they are necessary. I honestly do not think Mr. Brandt could be denied the fact that I think he is extremely courageous to bring this up at this point in time before an election with all the politicians in the room tonight. And you have to give him credit for that because I really do not think that this is the opportune time and therefore I honestly do believe as much as this Board did not like having to be faced with expanding a water department or building they did not appreciate having to do that because the former board voted it in. I really do not see why there is any great rush to do this tonight. I really think that I have to go along with that I think Mike, if you are elected, you should go forward with your plan, I honestly think it could use a little bit more fine tuning but I do not really see why if Mr. Champagne should be elected that he should have to tear apart all of this stuff. I think it is just a waste of time and energy at this point in time. I do appreciate the time and energy that was put in by these committees I think a lot of people do not realize you know, I honestly do not even know why anybody even runs or sits on a board sometimes when you have to listen to some of the remarks that come out of the audience and the gears and horrors and what not and boos. I guess basically that is it. I just, like I said, I really think that you would be better off tabling it at this point in time that is what I would like to see you do myself. Thank you. Supervisor Brandt-Thank you. Councilman Caimano-Before we go on to the second round, I would like to put something on the table. Are we ready to go to the second round with Hans? I want to put something on the table for further discussion at the risk of sounding like Mr. DeMars clone. I hear a lot of talk about efficiency and economy from both sides of the isle from Fred and from Sue and from Mike and from everybody else obviously to be against it would be against being mom and apple pie. I also heard that it is hard to put this together at a time when we are doing the budget but in fact it is not. I had presented several weeks ago an alternative to this plan you cannot see it up here but basically the Supervisor acting, the Board acts as a Board of directors the Supervisor as a CEO and three people report to the Supervisor this new department of public utilities the department of administration and department of community development. Now the nice thing about this organizational chart is that it can work now with the budget we put together today. When we put and if we put but when we put the new head of the department of public utilities in place when we go out and we interview for the job and find the right person then those three department heads together with the Supervisor and the rest of the Board can sit down and do the work that is necessary to do this job right. None of us sitting here none of us sitting here can say that we have gone thorough this budget and gone through this re-organization in such a way that we will come out of this with an efficient working organization. It is my opinion that we won't if you really want to change if the end result is to have a more efficient more economical government we have the people in place all we have to do is change around how we use those people go ahead and put this department of public utilities head in by the way under the department of public utilities would be water, sewer, recreation, building and grounds, solide waste, construction and fleet. But, putting that organization together would start from the top and start with the Board with the Supervisor with the head of the department of public utilities, and we would start with todays budget. Not some budget that we cockamamie together but with the budget that is already on the table and without having to eliminate people at this stage of the game and they have to in the end, but when we do so we will do so with some plan in mind. It is not, second thought was, it is not surprising to me that the current committee working together is very happy every member of that committee got a raise. The people that were eliminated under this new department of public utilities including Mr. Flaherty, Mr. Missita and everybody else amounts to $95,000 when you add in the department of public utilities and the raises of everybody on the committee that got a raise that is about $105,000 that's ok, I still think that the Supervisor has an idea that is worth pursuing. Anybody that is against efficiency in government would be crazy. We were elected on that we wanted to follow through with that but it doesn't have to be done in a haphazard manner. It can be done in a very prescribed manner it can be done in a planned manner and it can be done with success at the end being the goal and not tying to knock somebody out of position. Supervisor Brandt-It is your public hearing, who else would like to speak. Yes, Sir. Mr. Ken Pulver-I am Ken Pulver a Queensbury Resident co-incidentally husband to Carol Pulver who is candidate for the 4th Ward. I just, just listening to Nick, I just like to re-enforce the point that he made from a business point of view. You have a problem here and the problem is the perception that you have put a plan together that is not a plan at all but rather a budget an organization chart. As Nick said also, there is no question that this is motherhood, apple pie stuff you have got to do it, business is doing it, government needs to do it the whole concept of what you are trying to do here makes a lot of sense. The way you are going about it makes little since I just suggest to you kind of re-enforce Nicks point again that if you are going to precede with these kinds of ideas they have to be well thought out, well planned, you need a plan, you need something to show the Queensbury voters what you plan to do specifically, how, when, with whom, you have not done that. Until you are ready to do that I will suggest that you should not vote on it move it forward. Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else? Anybody else who would like to speak who has not had a chance to speak. Ok. Was there anyone who wants to speak a second time? Yes. Mr. Hans Hoenck-Again this is very brief, my name is Hans Hoenck I am a resident here in Queensbury for those of you that might not have been here when I was up here the first time I had a question to Mrs. Monahan because when we as a group met and discussed the expansion of the treatment plant the question that you raised and I want to clarify this is that the proposed plant expansion is undersized for any emergency. I can assure you Mrs. Monahan Councilman Monahan-Excuse me, I did not say for any emergency I said that it was undersized if we had a hot summer where we would be using a lot of water it would require water rationing and water conservation and then I asked Brian LaFlure how that could effect any emergency they might have. Mr. Hoenck-I can assure you that we raised this question and we were assured not only with the proposed expansion take care of a hot sununer but it would also take care of any emergency in addition to that. I just want you to realize that we did not go through this slip shod. This is our understanding as we were told. Councilman Monahan-May I ask you who gave you that information? Mr. Hoenck-Several sources, the engineers from both companies the previous one and the interim one now the same company again, they gave us the assurance that the proposed capacity would be sufficient for at least ten to fifteen years to take care of an expected growth in this community as well as emergencies. Including demand for water in the summer time. The other part is that might not have been understood we also entertained giving the opportunity to outlining areas to get water from the Queensbury Plant with one proviral on the taxpayers behalf we recommended that they put up their commitment in firm cash first, before we as taxpayers in Queensbury make that large an investment. Because that could very well turn out to be another trash plant issue. Councilman Monahan-I don't think anybody disagrees with that theory at all. Mr. Hoenck-I also want to make sure of that and I read to you the presentation of this group here two weeks ago. We make no reference to individual personnel we just indicated that we were hopeful that an individual presently in the work force could be found to held this department of public utilities. That is the only reference being made to personnel. We did not want to get involved in any personnel conflicts. The other part is as a volunteer giving my own time without any enumeration from anybody I... verify tonight, because I sense there is a stark special strong stock special interest group here in this room and this would not help to have volunteers come forth in the future the way the receive this type of treatment from a large group of individuals that are employed by the township. Supervisor Brandt -Yes. Mrs. Pamela Martin-Hi Pam Martin you guys know who I am. I really grappled with this whole thing whether Unknown-There are people in this back here who do not know who Pam Martin is. Councilman Caimano- Tell them. Mrs. Martin-I just said my name, that is what everyone has been saying. Unknown-You said you all know who I am. Mrs. Martin-As in the Town Board Members, I work at the town. OK. And I grappled with the idea of whether to come up and speak about this department and I decided that I am going to just because of my own conscience. I really feel that working in the Town of Queensbury and just my basic nature is to really try to work with everybody and I think that all of you Town Board Members I would hope would known me well enough to know and I am a registered republican you all know that, that I have really tried to work with all of you. Not just some and Mike we work right across the hall from each other and I would like to think that you know that I am trying to help you out and Nick and Betty and Sue and Pliney when you come in that I try as best as I can. I really tried to look at this department very objectively believe it or not people who especially with my husband being on the committee talking about it, people may think I not objective about it but I am and I think that I came here tonight tried to really listen and see about the specifics and I have to say that I really urge all of you not to vote on it tonight. I really think that there is just too many unanswered questions for the public and for every voter republican, democratic anyone that really cares about Queensbury because I do, I have family here my family has lived here for years I am in the Bay Ridge Fire Company I am not just saying this just for myself, but very objectively. I just think there are just some many unanswered questions and I think it would serve everyone a lot better all of you a lot better if we took more time to really look at it and get more information out to everybody. Thank you. Supervisor Brandt-Thank you. Councilman Caimano- Thank you. Supervisor Brandt-Anyone else who would like to speak. Town Clerk Darleen Dougher-Mike I have two letters that were on file. Supervisor Brandt-Please read them. Town Clerk Dougher-The first letter: November 1, 1993 Queensbury Town Board, Supervisor Brandt Queensbury Town Office Building Bay Road Queensbury, New York 12804 RE: Proposed Hearing on DPU I am unable to attend tihs Public Hearing on the proposed DPU, therefor, as a resident, voter and taxpayer to the Town of Queensbury, I respectfully request that my remarks with regard to this resolution be read into the minutes of this hearing. My comments are as follows: 1. If the proposed intent of the new DPU is to "allow the efficient and economical use of property, machinery, and materials" and "so that duplication of effort, property, equipment and materials are avoided" . Then why haven't the Recreation Department, Parks and Maintenance as well as the current Building and Grounds Department been included in the proposed DPU? The Recreation Department has several pieces of equipment, foreman, Mechanic and Laborers. The Building and Grounds department also has equipment and laborers. Leaving them out - isn't that duplication of equipment and people? 2. The Water Department and Sewer Department are for special benefit districts so that all costs of operation are paid by taxes from the people within those districts. Which means right now as the departments exist I pay no taxes. Now you wish to create a separate Department of Utilities to do the same job - but this time at a cost to every taxpayer in the Town. The intent is to over this situation by accounting procedures, but what you are really creating in an accounting nightmare. Just like robbing Peter to pay Paul. 3. The DPU will be staffed by 18 1/2 people all taken from other Town Departments. So you reduce the budget to the Water and Sewer Department and some in the Highway Department, but you put it all back in a budget for the DPU, in the amount of $376,651 for 1994, your chart, included with the resolution, shows a savings of$261,575 for 1994, you save $261,575 - spend $376,651 that's a $115,076 increase. So much for budget cuts. It's just a shell game - which pocket has money now? There is more, but I'll keep my comments brief for the moment. So in conclusion - Whenever a Politician tells me he (they) are going to save me (taxpayers) money by creating a new Department of Town Government, I have to tell you "Don't do me any favors". Please vote "NO" on this resolution. If you have to do anything - do it right - make a Department of Public Works, but don't let the DPU be one man's vendetta against the Water and Highway Departments at taxpayers expense. Sincerely, Isl Jerome Thorne Second Letter RE# 1 E. Sunnyside Road Box 379 Queensbury, N.Y. 12804 November 1, 1993 To: The Queensbury Town Board: My husband and I will not be able to attend the hearing on Mr. Brandt's proposed Local Law establishing a "Public Utilities Department", but wish to go on record as opposing such a move. The Town of Queensbury has a very efficient Highway and Water Department which we can be proud of. It is very easy to come up with charts and figures that really tell us nothing, and the fact that this proposed Local Law has already been changed so many times proves to me that the true figures are not there. Please take the time to review any plans with the people in charge of departments, not with someone who is willing to go along with any idea Mr. Brandt proposes. I have lived all my life in Queensbury and have worked for four Queensbury Supervisors and have also served on various committees as a volunteer, currently as a member of the Pine View Cemetery Commission. Don't change our system until we are very sure a change is necessary and will be better for the Town as a whole. Thank you for your attention. Sylvia and Tom Dougher Supervisor Brandt-Are there any other comments by anyone at this time? Yes. Ms. Gosline-I would like to ask Mr. Dusek a question. If this law is passed tonight are we stuck with it for four years? Attorney Dusek-Well, first of all if it passed tonight it would not go into effect anyway until January 1st, that is the date that is set forth in the law because it is a local law passed by a Town Board it is possible in my opinion for it to be repealed in any future date because it is by Town Board action. The complications though would be of course is the necessary budget adjustment procedure which would have to also be involved at that point because theoretically if this was adopted I would imagine that the budget for next year will be keyed into this local law. So, I guess the short of my answer is I think it is possible to repeal it, it may be somewhat difficult. Councilman Monahan-Question, as a Local Law is this subject to permissive referendum? Attorney Dusek-This particular local law is not. Councilman Monahan-Thank you. Ms. Gosline-As I said before I attend a lot of the meetings and I attended a meeting back with Mr. Borgos was running and just before his election and he insisted on putting in for a raise and I think he lost because of that. I think is you really want to be Supervisor again I do not really see what the rush is on this maybe if you wait just one more week maybe you will be Supervisor again. Supervisor Brandt-Thank you. Anyone else that would like to speak. Councilman Tucker-I have a question for the Attorney. Supervisor Brandt -Go ahead. Councilman Tucker-Thursday night our budget has to be official. Attorney Dusek-No, that would only be a public hearing Thursday night. Councilman Tucker-When does it have to be official? Attorney Dusek-By November 20th. Councilman Tucker-November 20th. Supervisor Brandt-We have got some time and we can work on that. Ok. If there is nothing else to be said on this one I am going to close the public... Councilman Monahan-Wait a minute, I want to say stuff before it gets closed. Supervisor Brandt -Go ahead. Councilman Monahan-Ok. I am going to wonder around if you don't mind from notes that I have taken at home notes that I have taken here, comments that have been taken here. I am looking at the make up of this management advisory team. I am not happy. The Town Superintendent of Highways which controls the largest work force in this Town was bypassed. Nobody got an evaluation of where his men would be, I have heard Mike talk about the men hiding so on so forth I am not saying every employee is working up to top efficiency, in many departments in this town. But, I think that is an evaluation that has to be made. Mr. Martin, has problems in his own department that should, that he should be given the time to clean up rather than asking him to work out of job title to work on this matter. Harry Hansen was given the job last spring by the Town Board to redesign some of work load through the Planning and Zoning Dept. the Town Board allowed him to resign because of his inability to do that job. We have E.J. Christensen the head of finance I do not really know what he has been doing in reorganization perhaps question to him to how it will impact financially. We have had the Town Attorney, now I have not sat in on any of these meetings so I cannot tell you how they function but if we are using the Town Attorney who's time we do not have enough of to get the work done that the Town Board has requested is sitting in on policy I have a problem with that. People can go to him for an evaluation of what they are doing legally, fine. But I do not think he should be working in policy and direction. I can remember when Mike ran for office he did not even think we needed a Town Attorney now he seems not to be able to breath unless he has the Town Attorney by his side. I would suggest that people in the community that have dealt with big construction firms like Jim Wheller, Chet South might well have the ability to help look at how the Town could be re-structured in the type of things that depends on construction type, I thinking of highways, water, wastewater etc. Not the way some other functions go. I listened to Lise Fuller here make the statement about excessive department head raises. This is off the subject but I am going to bring it up. That were in prior budgets. I suggest that she look at this budget see who got raises who said who got cut and what the relationships are to Mr. Brandt. I think it would be very eliminating. Supervisor Brandt-Are they my cousins? Councilman Monahan-I am just saying what is in the budget. Mr. Sullivan-Could you just illuminate on the relationship you are suggesting that they may have Mr. Brandt could you illuminate on this? Councilman Monahan-I think you will find the members that are on Mr. Brandt's so called team got some healthy raises. Mr. Sullivan-Are they like relatives or are they? Councilman Monahan-I don't see that, that is really relevant to what I am saying. Mr. Sullivan-I don't understand what you are trying to say though I mean you are suggesting that there is a conflict. .. Councilman Monahan-Excuse me Sir, I did not know I was going to have a debate with you. I am here to state what I am picking up. Alright. Mr. Sullivan-I am concerned if there is a conflict, would you tell us what that is? Councilman Monahan-I did not say there was a conflict, I... Mr. Sullivan-Oh, there is no conflict then, ok. Thank you. Councilman Monahan-We talk about the water plant expansion if you go over there I am not sure if we were not a town organization but what the Fire Marshal would have some problems to see hallways used to store records etc. That is just a little comment on whether or not the water plant should be or the administration. It was built for the future etc. and so on we have been over that kind of stuff an million times. Whether or not we are a regional water department it did not dictate the size of the administration building somebody commented on a loan for that building there was no loan for that building that building was paid for out of money that had been saved. Ok. Now, to get some other things. I would like to take and comments on several things. When these sheets were drawn up and when the budget was drawn up the head of the waste water department did an excellent analysis of his job and what duties he had to perform. I do not see that analysis reflected anyplace in the budget or in his duties. I got a sheet here that says and I think you all have it spending reductions with the department of public utilities in Queensbury 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996. We have a local law that you are looking at that talks, the department of public utilities that relates to wastewater, water, drainage, construction, fleet and equipment maintenance. If you look at the chart some of the reductions have gotten this way. The landfill, going from a salary with benefits to 49,210 to a salary with benefits of 39,990 I did not realize the landfill was part of the law we are talking about tonight, I do not quite see what merit that has. I am looking at a highway superintendent a deputy highway superintendent I did not see the highway in this department of public utilities. Maybe I am wrong. I am looking at a building and grounds labor A I did not see that part of this law that we are talking about the department of public utilities. I am looking at two HD laborers, HD I am assuming refers to highway department. We have got two HD MEO's according to another list I have here and boy it is hard to keep these lists straight I will tell you, the Highway Dept. is loosing two MEO's but the H, lets see the HD I do not see where we are losing got moved, the HD mechanic I do not see that we are losing, he got moved to the department of public works, you want to look at some waste, ladies and gentlemen look at the recreation department. We got a director, we got assistant director we have two labor A's, two mechanics, a working foreman, I have tried to find out what a working foreman does there. I have tried to find out how many vehicles they have that need a full time mechanic. Our building and grounds guy gets by in the new budget with a cleaner, four laborers and a working foreman and I ask you to look at the amount of work that the building and grounds department has to do relative to recreation. The only point that I brought those two departments in is to show that an analysis has not been made of the work that is done in this Town and where these jobs should be placed and under who. Let me give you recreation again, should the recreation director be taking care of the grasses parts of the parks or does that better belong under building and grounds? Should the recreation director be deciding where we are going to put new parks or should our community development who does planning do the place for new park These are the questions I look at as I look at and I try to analysis the plan. Now, I am going to the law for some specific questions. Paul if you would start on page one of the law. 127-2 Legislative Intent. It says the water department administration and associated departments? What are the associated departments? Attorney Dusek-That was just a catch all phrase that I put in there so it includes all water districts, because there are separate water districts in town the thought was to make sure you catch all of your water districts, that is what you were meaning to include here. (Audience noted that they could not hear) That is a catch all phrase to include all water districts because there is more than one water district in the Town of Queensbury. Councilman Monahan-Then why don't we say water districts, I just have a fear that we put some words in there that we sneak some other things in under. Attorney Dusek-You know the legislative intent is something that is meant to represent what the board feels about the legislation. You are free to revise that anyway you would feel more comfortable with. Councilman Monahan-Ok. Then we talk about, now remember this law talks about sliding together the water and the wastewater departments. Then it goes right down in that same paragraph and it talks about equipment maintenance and general construction activity. Now, am I to understand that, that general construction activity relates to the water and wastewater department or is that any kind of general construction activity. May I find this group putting up a new building here in town or something or are they going to go out and do some roads on the side. Attorney Dusek-It was meant to be broad in its terminology so that you would fix that, part of it is fixed later on in the law but part of it is left to the Town Board to set up the way you want obviously there would be certain restrictions placed on you by virtue of other Town Laws that you would have to comply with. Councilman Monahan-Pretty loose guys I do not know how you feel about it. I feel it is pretty loose. Page 2. Mr. Sullivan-Are you suggesting you do not take responsibility as a... Councilman Monahan-Sir, if you want a debate, if you want to debate me I have the floor sir. Mr. Sullivan-I concerned about... Supervisor Brandt-Betty does have the floor. Councilman Monahan-127-4 Mr. Sullivan-Point of information Mr. Chairman. ..how you would like to represent me... Supervisor Brandt-Betty go ahead and please finish up. Councilman Monahan-Paul, on page two 127-4A Again we have got construction projects and vehicle and equipment maintenance. I just want some perimeters put on that I do not like a loose piece of legislation I have seen the loose pieces of legislation have been put to. Attorney Dusek-You know that is entirely up to the Board to you can either leave it in the general form that it is or you can add in more specific criteria. Councilman Monahan-Well, that is why I am doing it, because as a Board Member I have not had any input into this. Ok. We have already talked about highway equipment getting bought by DPU and then you know maybe Paul, gets to use it and maybe he doesn't. Page 4 and that was on page 4 under Vehicle and Equipment Maintenance Division. Personnel. The Department shall consist of the office of director of public utilities and such as officers and employees as maybe assigned. I have not under this particular law seen a job description or the director there was one that I did not think was particularly good under the one that you came before to us for public hearing, I personally like to work with job descriptions I want to know what I expect the person to do what the perimeters of his duties are what kind of qualifications he should have in order to fulfill those perimeters. I do not have a thing here. I do not have a thing in any of the papers that have ever been given to me and believe me I got stacks of them. The Departments themselves consolidated hereunder will no longer prepare separate budgets but rather the budgets submitted for the public utilities department shall incorporate all of the budgets of the effected department. That is page 5 at the top of it. That means that after this one budget is prepared under law for special districts then somebody has to sit there and take it apart and allocate it into those special districts to raise the money. I am not sure how much of a bookkeeping nightmare everybody will say with computers no big problem. I really do not know where one person is going to get all this expertise without feed back from somebody in these particular areas of expertise. Ok. page 5 D 1 Again we have no qualifications for the appointment of the director. 2 Salary It says the salary will be paid from the general fund of the Town of Queensbury and the Town Board may partially assess the salary upon any improvement or benefit district of the Town which receives the services as director. Now, it does not say we have to it says we may so all of you people out there that are worried about your tax bill, will now can be paying a share of what rightfully belongs to special districts because they are benefitted. Your water, you people in North Queensbury that have no water you have no sewer you can be paying part of the bill that should be allocated to those districts. I have screamed here on this board for a long time that part of Paul Dusek's salary which is spent so much doing wastewater and water should be allocated to those districts. It has not been done. Lets see, Supervisor Brandt-You did say scream didn't you? Councilman Monahan-Yes, I did say scream, and I do scream and you well know. I have people that call me up and thank me for it. Ok. We have got a lot of people that are coming out of highway going into the department of public utilities. It becomes rather cumbersome I am not saying it can't work. Now, we have got about giving a value to what already belongs to the special district if it is merged into one big pot, those taxpayers have to be credited with a value of anything that they give up. My question is how is that going to be appraised? I will tell you, you will get some big surprises on how much, how low the appraisal is on some things, we found that out when we had highway department trucks appraised for insurance purposes that were only a year or two old how much of a decline in value that was given to them. Which may in the end kind of short change those special districts. Again, page 8 127-7 Continue Responsibility for payments in charge, I think we have a nightmare set up here I think there is probably a more simple easy way to do it but I do not think this is it. My feeling is that this a law that is not dealt with the specifics nitty gritty it is a wish list type of thing my personal feeling is that yes we do need to look at the re-structuring of government in this Town, we need to look at it for efficiency we need to look at it for our tax dollars being spent wisely we need to look to make sure we have got the right people in the right position. We need to look to see where we can share people and services and do it well. It would be a help to the working of the system not a detriment. I think it can be done my question Mr. Brandt the other night because you remember during the prior public hearing he said he was going to show you two budgets one with the department utilities and one without. Well all we got for that ladies and gentlemen was not a budget but a cover sheet equivalent to this says with DPU in fact it is just a draft it should have been in final form by now. There was another one that said without the DPU. When Mr. Brandt was questioned about some of the figures on that the other night during our budget process he said really part of those were not valid figures but that, and so I say to you we had a budget to look at only one way with a department of public utilities, the Town Board never had any other information or figures except a cover sheet that did not have valid information on there has been no comparison done by this Town Board what else can I tell you. Supervisor Brandt-This is really a public hearing for the public and it is open to the public, Mrs. Peggy Prime-Am I public? Supervisor Brandt -Yea, please. Mrs. Peggy Prime-My name is Peggy Prime and I live on the end of Hiland Drive. I have a question about the spending reductions with the department of utilities, public utilities in Queensbury they list under cemetery these reductions but the budget that matches as far as I can tell does not have them. It also the sheet Supervisor Brandt - I do not think that there is a list of savings in the cemetery I do not believe that is true I think that what you see it is shown that the cost stays there. The cost is in place and stays in place. Let me tell you also there is a series of events that go on it isn't, time does not freeze, well you finish yours then I'll Mrs. Prime-Well, trying to understand this which I find very difficult I must say I am not, I never worked in a town department of anything like that, the only budget I have ever worked with is the cemetery commission because I am a commissioner. So, when it says spending reduction I assume that when you add them up this is what you would think you are reducing. But, I guess not, I just do not even understand what we were in there for frankly because I do not see the reduction reflected even in the first years budget. Supervisor Brandt-There is no reduction from the cemetery and probably should not have been in there, what I started to do was make a sheet to look at all the different possibilities and it did not get eliminated. Mrs. Prime-The only one I know about is wrong and I am just wondering if all, if many others are. Supervisor Brandt-I do not think it is wrong it isn't what you think it is. Mrs. Prime-It is confusing to the public, very confusing to the public. Councilman Monahan-Peggy the way I read that was, cemetery has a salary in there of $29,540 in there with benefits and that salary was going to stay in that it wasn't a reduction it was just going to stay there. Which is confusing to most people looking at this list because the top of the paper does say spending reductions. But apparently that is just to show that, that position is going to stay and is carried through. Mrs. Prime-Ok. Supervisor Brandt-There are quite a few of those positions that are shown that way. Mrs. Prime-I couldn't, as I say I think it is very difficult to do this unless you have been in it and spent a lot of time on it except for my own and I just wondered why it was listed there basically at all. But, then the just to tell me and you probably have a list, where from where are the fleet and equipment maintenance things to be worked on coming from? One, big truck was mentioned engineering what else, where are they all coming from, we have equipment is it coming from the cemetery commission's equipment? Supervisor Brandt-No. What we are doing is setting up a maintenance force that can work on anybodies equipment it is a matter of scheduling in equipment in otherwords it can work on water department, wastewater department, or highway department whatever equipment needs to be fixed there is flexibility. Mrs. Prime-So that you really are thinking in terms of the equipment across the town eventually if it is feasible. Supervisor Brandt-If it is feasible, you have to feel your way and it is a start. Mrs. Prime-Ok. It's again I think we could have probably had a very productive, perhaps could have had a productive maybe we could not have had a productive, given some of the stuff that's been said tonight, but it seems that it was a mistake to hold this thing tonight just before election. It certainly makes it extremely political. If we can do something for the Town I think we should stand back and do it when the dust has fallen or settled after this uproar. Now, Mike has told me that he loves to shake things up and he certainly has done that over the last couple of years there is no doubt about that. He has had a lot of fun seeing how it all worked out. But, my point is you shake, if you want to shake things up you should know what you are shaking them up for. I think that this is a little sketchy, I stopped in the office or I would not even have known that we had plan number three and I just wondered if we are going through this local law and maybe there is going to be a local law number four. Or is this only the second one, I do not know. I picked up only two sets and perhaps there has been more, I might not even have the right one in my hand for all I know. I think it has been rushed in order to make it political and I think it would have been much, much better for all of us, having been done this way now, it is what is the deal, how do you, what do you get the most out of a meeting like this for with. Do you think for the town do you think for the election do you think for and I think that this Board has gotten itself into a somewhat of a sad pickle where it all looks totally political and it is too bad. Councilman Monahan-Peggy that was one of our comments at the last budget meeting if you remember right the budget was started with a department of public utilities and I do not know if it was the same title last year and it wasn't followed thorough because it was so close to budget time and my question was you know why wasn't this started looking at very seriously in allocating and looking at jobs last January. Mrs. Prime-I agree Councilman Monahan-Why wasn't this done methodically and carefully and logically and analytically. And we are right down to the same mess again at the tail end of trying to put a whole mess of stuff in a bowl mix it up and hope it comes out a nice cake. Mrs. Prime- Well, hope you do because I like this town and I feel that after you close that hearing that you are going to vote it in. I think it has not been done well and I do not think it reflects well on the majority of the board to vote on it tonight, thank you. Supervisor Brandt-Is there anybody else that would like to speak. This has been a public hearing for the public and it is your chance we always get a chance talk you guys seldom do or you do only in open forum and on these kinds of hearings. Anybody else. Ok. I am going to declare the public hearing closed on the department of public utilities. Thank you. I would like to comment also. I did not want to do it during your period of speaking, as a Supervisor of the Town the law says that I will bring forth a budget and I do that and I do it as well as I know how. It does not say I have to bring two budgets or three or five it says a budget. My budget incorporated a department of public utilities, it started two years ago the first budget we made I suggested that there was some major savings to be found and that we should incorporate those in the budget. The Town Board was also looking at almost $800,000 worth in cuts almost $900,000 worth of cuts in the general budget and they felt that it was overwhelming to try and look at a reorganization at the same time we were looking at all those cuts and so they chose not to do it. Any board member can make any budget they want to and bring it forth, organized in anyway they want to and they are welcome to do that. As a Supervisor I have done it as part of my responsibility and I have put together a budget which includes a department of public utilities. In the public hearing some people asked well why don't you put both of them together and I said well, really what you had was a departmental request which was a budget without a department of public utilities and so I let that stand as, that does not mean you can't trim it down any board member can take it and work on it themselves and try and trim those down and come with their own budget if they want to do that. But, I have concentrated my thinking and my resources and my process on continuing with this process. Should we, it was said by some people here that this is political. Everything we do here is political. This is your government and you choose us according to how we perform. And you choose us whether we like what you are doing or you don't like what we are doing. You change the names that is your part of the process I think it is a good process. But, it does not mean that we should stop government for a year because it is an election year, because that means you have fifty percent government every other year is an election year in this town and I am going to continue with my programs as best as I know how and put them forth and it is up to the Board to decide whether they want them or not. To me a department of public utilities is a tool of management for the Town Board it has some savings some direct savings not immense amount in direct savings lets say it is $200,000 that is not a lot of money in a fourteen million dollars over all town and I am not selling it that way. I see it as a management tool, I see it giving the Town Managers the ability to make long term plans on specific projects and make recommendations to the Town Board who can then adopt or reject those. In the short time that we worked together as a group looking at how we might make this department work and how we might organize it if the Town Board chooses to I saw an attitude come about within the members of the management team and what happened was all of a sudden they started to say hay we could work together hay we could put a project together in recreation or as the community development people looked at, you know we have a Wal-Mart coming into town and up where Sweet Road intersects with Route 9 we have an opportunity right now before we finish the process to change that intersection and try and get Wal-Mart to put their control light there instead of where its agreed to so far. If we went in and made a cross road a T there and took that in as the entrance to Wal-Mart it would solve a problem for a lot of people who live in that neck of the woods. It sounds like a reasonable idea but there was some enthusiasm suddenly to me the proper operation of the town means you need cooperation between department heads, between work forces, sharing of equipment, sharing or resources and I saw that start to come together and that excites me. I think that is what we are targeting for. The law is quite difficult in the matters of town law as it structures the highway department and the town, town board. I used the attorney to help me try and figure that out and we even had to go to the Attorney General's Office and ask them some questions and Audit and Control and it is a complicated law. It assumes that everybody is going to work together and they should because that is the best interest of the taxpayers. I think that we need to take on that attitude in all of our departments and work together and look at long term planning and that is why I brought this forth and that is why I believe in it. I think the real savings is in the projects that we take on instead of, and I say sometimes we hide our people I am not saying that the employees hide. We have got very good employees and they will do what you ask them to do. But, you know if it is raining and or and there is just not work that you could do sometimes you make work and sometimes I do that in my own business with my own employees, you don't lay them off you do not throw them away you make work and you know you are wasting some time. But, by looking at those wasted periods and bring them together maybe you could make use of them. Once in a while if you could make use of them and make better use of them then we are by combining of the workforce I think we ought to do that. That is what I believe in and that is what I want to work for. I am not going, I do not see this as a political thing for tomorrow it doesn't make a heck of a lot of difference I do not think what we decide here tonight will change the election one way or the other I would be surprised if it changes a hundred votes one way or the other I think people basically made up their minds what their, how they see the election and who they are going to vote for. To me it is a process of moving along with government. The budget as I laid out and brought forth my budget has a department of public utilities the management plan is developing it is not total it is not finished and it never will be because a good management plan keeps changing as you identify your needs and better understand them. I am ready to move it and I believe in it. Therefore I will even put the motion on the floor to adopt it. So, I am moving it. Councilman Tucker-I will second it. Councilman Caimano- I just have a couple of questions. Unknown-Three to two. Supervisor Brandt-And why should it be three to two why shouldn't it be five all why it is political on one side but not the other? Politics is politics if people differ, they have a right to differ and they vote their conscience. Because three people agree does that mean that they are political and the other two aren't? BS I have seen the politics and I have seen the patronage and I am not for the patronage. Councilman Caimano-Just a couple of questions you talked about the goal of working together and sharing but wasn't that always the goal? Did it not work and does it not work under the current department heads have you attempted and have we attempted as a board to work directly with the department heads now to bring forth the kind of results that you want? Supervisor Brandt-I do not think it has worked. I do not think it has ever worked in Queensbury. I think part of that is the Board of Directors right here it is their fault and part of it is the way we structure. We say, well that is a special district and you can't do this and you can't do that. And you have accounting problems and it can't be done. That is not true it can be done. We do our accounting every day and we can do it. Councilman Caimano-But, we have Supervisor Brandt-But we need to give the message to our people that we want them to do it and I think this is the mechanism to do it. Councilman Caimano-But, we have in the past had instances many of them apparently of sharing within departments I know there are instances of the water and recreation sharing, sharing equipment and doing work, water did work for them I know there was one two years ago that I do not want to talk about but it was a shared responsibility. I just wonder if we not, well for get it. Supervisor Brandt-It is not the norm. Councilman Caimano-No, but Supervisor Brandt-It is ab norm, it should be in the norm. Councilman Ciamano-But that is a requirement of the administration as you say the Board of Directors, if you thought and if you think that this Board has not been hard enough in managing and making the department heads work together then why have you not brought us all together including the department heads and knocked our heads together and said look guys we have got to work together. Why is it apocalypse now? Why wasn't it in January 1 of 1992? Why didn't we do this then? That is my only question. My other question is to you Jim Martin, have you ever seen, when you were on the committee did you ever discuss an alternative plan of organization? Mr. Martin-No. Councilman Caimano-Ok. Mr. Martin-Not that one. Councilman Caimano-Well what one? Mr. Martin-The one you had up? Councilman Caimano-No. Not that one, what one what alternative did you discuss? Mr. Martin-There were several generations of this. Councilman Caimano- That came from the same person right, the same area. Mr. Martin-Yes. Supervisor Brandt-Nick, if you look at yours it is very close to number two of ours. One difference, the engineer and the engineer has been changed. Councilman Caimano- The big difference is that this works without tomorrow knocking off people it works with the structure that we have now and we put into place the people we want to put into place. Supervisor Brandt-When you say without knocking off people if you are going to cut costs and consolidate and gain something by it, it means you are going to run with less people that is what consolidation is. Councilman Caimano- Yes, but you said that your first goal was not to cutting of cost but was the re- organization of the government, and I agree with that. Supervisor Brandt-I think it is both. To save money has been one of our focuses and I think a good one, we have been very effective at it. To continue to save money even though it is $200,000 that is still a lot of money you know, that is a lot of money for any of us. Councilman Caimano- The only thing I say is and we are going to run to a vote, it is about time I guess, but I think you heard out here tonight you called it political and I think the over whelming support out here is not democratic and yet I did not hear anybody say they wouldn't go for an efficient re-organization? I thought most everybody said they would and all anybody asked was that lets take the politics out of it and lets take the vote after the election. I think that is a reasonable thing. Supervisor Brandt -You cannot take politics out of government, that is what government is. Weare going to take our stand and if the public doesn't like it we are gone it is as simple as that and what is wrong with that? Councilman Caimano- That is not what the goal was, the goal was a more efficient government, not to get re-elected. Supervisor Brandt-No, the goal is communications between departments encouraging that, that kind of cooperation that can be obtained on a normal routine basis. Councilman Caimano-Well not to carry on the argument ..infinitum but that could be accomplished tomorrow simply by having a department head meeting. Supervisor Brandt-It hasn't been Nick. It never has been it hasn't been effectively as a norm. Councilman Caimano-Ok. Councilman Monahan-Well, Mike I only have to say is you talk about savings but I am looking at your spending reductions here and the premises at which you made those on is not a valid premise. Because, like landfill as I said is not part of this re-organization you have used that as part of your premise and even if it were, what has happened ladies and gentlemen is Jim Coughlin salary is going to be partly with the landfill as staying or maybe you put him right down to zero in the budget I cannot remember. That he will be, still be employed as part of the closure team. So, you know it's being, it is a shell game. Where is it, it is just like these people that have been moved out of highway they are going over to DPU and yet you see them as a savings, the only saving is two people are getting layoff. We are looking at a shell game with a lot of these savings. The savings can come in the future by making government more efficient if we do the job correctly and properly and analyze what we are doing. Supervisor Brandt-Well, the original chart that you are referring to was made when we had a department of public utilities construction.. Councilman Monahan-Excuse me Mike, Supervisor Brandt-Now, just a second, as Nick has it with the landfill as part of the department of public utilities, later on we took it out. The landfill as you look at it is a very temporary operation it is going to close and leave and gets sealed off and so that department probably will be a very, very minor part of, it will be running some transfer stations three days a week is what we have come to. So, we took it out of there I do not think that is the major point, the major point is that you put people together you ask them to work together you work them as a committee so they communicate together so they build their ideas together and so they plan on working together and that is the idea. I think it is a good idea I think it's time has come and it is time to move along. Councilman Monahan-Mike, so that we are giving correct information to the people out there the plan that I am talking to is dated 10-93 it says proposed town organization number 3 there is a chart with it also dated 10-93 it says spending reductions with the department of public utilities in Queensbury. This is how the Supervisor came up with his savings, I am just saying it is not a valid document. Supervisor Brandt-It was one point in time that was what we were looking at. We have moved on we have had budget hearings since then decided to add employees they are reflected in the later versions and you know it is not, we are not looking at a instant in time, time keeps moving and we have got to keep up. Councilman Monahan-You keep telling the people you are having a two hundred savings and I am saying where is it, show me. Supervisor Brandt-I think you can see it at least a two hundred thousand dollars in salaries alone and I believe the real savings comes in work and work, saving work in capital projects I think that is where the savings will come I have never tried to budget it I have never tried to show a figure, I think that should be done historically and see if it does work or if it doesn't. I think time will tell as far as I am concerned I would like to move along with the process. Any other discussion? RESOLUTION TO ENACT LOCAL LAW NUMBER 12, 1993 A LOCAL LAW TO AMEND THE CODE OF THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY BY ADDING A NEW CHAPTER 127 TO BE ENTITLED, "PUBLIC UTILITIES DEPARTMENT," WHICH CHAPTER SHALL PROVIDE FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC UTILITIES AND THE CONSOLIDATION OF CERTAIN OTHER TOWN DEPARTMENT ACTIVITIES AS MORE SPECIFICALLY SET FORTH THEREIN. RESOLUTION NO. 637, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is desirous of enacting a Local Law to amend the Code of the Town of Queensbury by adding a new Chapter 127, to be entitled, "Public Utilities Department," which Chapter shall provide for the establishment of the Department of Public Utilities and the consolidation of certain other Town Department activities as more specifically set forth therein, and WHEREAS, a copy of the proposed Local Law has been presented at this meeting, a copy of said Local Law also having been previously given to the Town Board at the time the Resolution was adopted which set a date and time for a public hearing, and WHEREAS, on November 1, 1993, a public hearing with regard to this Local Law was duly conducted, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby enacts the proposed Local Law to amend the Code of the Town of Queensbury by adding a new Chapter 127, to be entitled, "Public Utilities Department," to be known as Local Law Number 12, 1993, the same to be titled and contain such provisions as are set forth in a copy of the proposed Law presented at this meeting, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury is hereby directed to file the said Local Law with the New York State Secretary of State in accordance with the provisions of the Municipal Home Rule Law and that said Local Law will take effect immediately and as soon as allowable under law. Duly adopted this 1st day of November, 1993, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brandt NOES: Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Caimano ABSENT:None Discussion held before vote: Councilman Caimano- This is not a vote for or against are-organization because I believe in it, I do not think this is a plan it is wish and it is very devious and I vote no. Councilman Monahan-I will say of the record, that my no vote is because I feel that this is a very poorly written piece of legislation. (Councilman Tucker left the room) PUBLIC HEARING PROPOSED LOCAL LAW REGULATING PARKING ON PORTION OF LUZERNEROAD. Supervisor Brandt-Has this been properly advertised? Town Clerk Dougher-Yes it has. Supervisor Brandt-I am going to declare the public hearing open on the local law regulating parking along a portion of Luzerne Road. Is there anyone here to speak on that? Mr. John Salvadore-What necessitates is regulation? How does it differ from any other town road? Supervisor Brandt-It doesn't differ very much from any other Town Road there is a, Jim can you help we with it? Mr. Martin-What happen was there was a new use being introduced at the corner an Adirondack Coffee Shop I believe it is and it came up through the various public hearings that were held at the the Planning Board on that review of that project a request came from the neighbors along that section of the street they would like to have a no parking to ensure a minimal impact from the parking of the coffee shop, although it does provide its own parking and meets the parking schedule they were still concerned that they could creep up the street so they requested that this be considered it was in the resolution of the Planning Board approval to have that considered and that is why we are here at this point in time. Supervisor Brandt-Anybody that wants to comment on it? Declared the Public Hearing Closed. RESOLUTION TO ENACT LOCAL LAW REGULATING PARKING ON A PORTION OF LUZERNE ROAD IN THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY RESOLUTION NO.: 638, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is desirous of enacting a Local Law which would provide for the regulating of parking on a portion of Luzerne Road in the Town of Queensbury, and WHEREAS, a copy of the said proposed Local Law entitled, "A Local Law Regulating Parking on a Portion of Luzerne Road in the Town of Queensbury," has been presented at this meeting, a copy of said Local Law also having been previously given to the Town Board, and WHEREAS, on November 1, 1993, a public hearing on said proposed Local Law was duly conducted, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adopts and enacts the proposed Local Law Regulating Parking on a Portion of Luzerne Road in the Town of Queensbury, to be known as Local Law No.: 13, 1993, the same to be titled and contain such provisions as are set forth in a copy of the proposed Local Law presented at this meeting, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury is hereby directed to file the Local Law with the New York State Secretary of State in accordance with the provisions of the Municipal Home Rule Law and that said Local Law will take effect immediately and as soon as allowable under law. Duly adopted this 1st day of November, 1993, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT:Mr. Tucker Discussion held-Councilman Caimano-It is on the record that he (Mr. Tucker) is for it. RESOLUTION CALLING FOR QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH RESOLUTION NO. 639.93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into the Queensbury Board of Health. Duly adopted this 1st day of November, 1993 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Caimano, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT: Mr. Tucker (Councilman Tucker returned to meeting) RESOLUTION TO SET PUBLIC HEARING ON APPLICATION FOR VARIANCE OF SANITARY SEW AGE DISPOSAL ORDINANCE FOR CAROL FREIHOFER RESOLUTION NO.: 44, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is, by operation of Law, the Local Board of Health for the Town of Queensbury and, as such, is authorized under Chapter 136 of the Town of Queensbury On-Site Sewage Disposal Ordinance to issue variances to such Ordinance, and WHEREAS, Ms. Carol Freihofer has applied to the Local Board of Health of the Town of Queensbury for two variances from certain standards of the Town of Queensbury On-Site Sewage Disposal Ordinance set forth in Chapter 136, Appendix A, such standard providing as follows: APPENDIX A TABLE I - HORIZONTAL SEPARATION DISTANCES FROM WASTEWATER SOURCES TO STREAM WELL OR LAKE OR WASTEWATER SUCTION WATER PROPERTY LAKE GEORGE SOURCES LINE (a) COURSE(c) DWELLING LINE AND TRIBS. Septic Tank 10' 50' and WHEREAS, Ms. Carol Freihofer has indicated a desire to place the septic tank 43' from Lake George and 5' from the property line, rather than placing it at the mandated 50' and 10' distances, respectively, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Local Board of Health for the Town of Queensbury will hold a public hearing on November 15th, 1993, at 7:00 p.m., at the Queensbury Activities Center, (reasonably accessible to persons with mobility impairment) 531 Bay Road, Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New York, to consider the application for two variances of Ms. Carol Freihofer to place the septic tank 43' from Lake George and 5' from the property line, rather than placing it at the mandated 50' and 10' distances, respectively, on property situated on Ripley Point on Lake George, Town of Queensbury, New York, and bearing Tax Map No.: Section 14, Block 2, Lot 1, and, at that time, all persons interested in the subject thereof will be heard, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury be and is hereby directed and authorized, when in receipt of a list of neighbors within 500 feet of the subject property, to publish and provide Notice of said Public Hearing as may be required by law, and authorized to mail copies of said Public Hearing Notice to the adjoining neighbors. Duly adopted this 1st day of November, 1993, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT:None RESOLUTION TO SET PUBLIC HEARING ON APPLICATION FOR VARIANCE OF SANITARY SEW AGE DISPOSAL ORDINANCE FOR JAMIE HAYES CIO ADIRONDACK COFFEE SERVICE, INC. RESOLUTION NO.: 45, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is, by operation of Law, the Local Board of Health for the Town of Queensbury and, as such, is authorized under Chapter 136 of the Town of Queensbury On-Site Sewage Disposal Ordinance to issue variances to such Ordinance, and WHEREAS, Jamie Hayes clo Adirondack Coffee Service, Inc. has applied to the Local Board of Health of the Town of Queensbury for a variance from certain standards of the Town of Queensbury On- Site Sewage Disposal Ordinance set forth in Chapter 136, Appendix A, such standard providing as follows: APPENDIX A TABLE I - HORIZONTAL SEPARATION DISTANCES FROM WASTEWATER SOURCES TO STREAM WELL OR LAKE OR WASTEWATER SUCTION WATER PROPERTY LAKE GEORGE SOURCES LINE (a) COURSE(c) DWELLING LINE AND TRIBS. Septic Tank 10' and WHEREAS, Jamie Hayes clo Adirondack Coffee Service, Inc., has indicated a desire to place the septic tank 3' from the dwelling, rather than placing it at the mandated 10' distance, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Local Board of Health for the Town of Queensbury will hold a public hearing on November 15th, 1993, at 7:00 p.m., at the Queensbury Activities Center, (reasonably accessible to persons with mobility impairment) 531 Bay Road, Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New York, to consider the application for a variance of Jamie Hayes clo Adirondack Coffee Service, Inc., to place the septic tank 3' from the dwelling, rather than placing it at the mandated 10' distance, on property situated on 4 S. Western Avenue, Town of Queensbury, New York, and bearing Tax Map No.: Section 117, Block 11, Lot 4, and, at that time, all persons interested in the subject thereof will be heard, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury be and is hereby directed and authorized, when in receipt of a list of neighbors within 500 feet of the subject property, to publish and provide Notice of said Public Hearing as may be required by law, and authorized to mail copies of said Public Hearing Notice to the adjoining neighbors. Duly adopted this 1st day of November, 1993, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT:None RESOLUTION TO SET PUBLIC HEARING ON APPLICATION FOR VARIANCE OF SANITARY SEW AGE DISPOSAL ORDINANCE FOR WILLIAM & MARGARET SULLIVAN RESOLUTION NO.: 46, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is, by operation of Law, the Local Board of Health for the Town of Queensbury and, as such, is authorized under Chapter 136 of the Town of Queensbury On-Site Sewage Disposal Ordinance to issue variances to such Ordinance, and to issue variances to the Lake George Waste Water Manual issued by the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, and WHEREAS, William and Margaret Sullivan have applied to the Local Board of Health of the Town of Queensbury for a variance from certain standards of the Lake George Waste Water Manual as set forth in Table B-2, such standards providing as follows: TABLE B-2 MINIMUM SEPARATION DISTANCES (ft.) SEPTIC TANK ABSORPTION SEEP AGE SEWER FIELDS PITS LINE Lake George 100' and WHEREAS, William and Margaret Sullivan have indicated a desire to place the septic tank 65' from the Lake George shoreline, rather than placing it at the mandated 100' distance, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Local Board of Health for the Town of Queensbury will hold a public hearing on November 15th, 1993, at 7:00 p.m., at the Queensbury Activities Center, (reasonably accessible to persons with mobility impairment) 531 Bay Road, Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New York, to consider the application for a variance of William and Margaret Sullivan to place the septic tank 65' from the Lake George shoreline, rather than placing it at the mandated 100' distance, on property situated on Route 9L, Plum Point, Town of Queensbury, New York, and bearing Tax Map No.: Section 1, Block 1, Lot 15, and, at that time, all persons interested in the subject thereof will be heard, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury be and is hereby directed and authorized, when in receipt of a list of neighbors within 500 feet of the subject property, to publish and provide Notice of said Public Hearing as may be required by law, and authorized to mail copies of said Public Hearing Notice to the adjoining neighbors. Duly adopted this 1st day of November, 1993, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT:None RESOLUTION ADJOURNING QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH RESOLUTION NO. 47.93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjournes as Queensbury Board of Health and moves back into regular session. Duly adopted this 1st. day of November, 1993 by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT: None RESOLUTIONS RESOLUTION AMENDING 1993 BUDGET RESOLUTION NO.: 640,93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan WHEREAS, Thomas K. Flaherty, Water Superintendent, has advised that the metered water sales in the Easy Street Water District are higher than anticipated, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves, authorizes, and directs that the 1993 Budget be amended as follows: 1) Increase Estimated Revenues in the 1993 Revenue Account #49-49-2140 (Easy Street Water) in the amount of $1,000.00; and 2) Increase Estimated Revenues in the 1993 Revenue Account #49-49-2401 (Easy Street Water) by $ 700.00; and 3) Increase Appropriations in the 1993 Budget: Expense Account #49-8320-4400 (Easy Street Water Misc. Contractual) in the amount of $1,700.00; and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the 1993 Town Budget is hereby amended accordingly. Duly adopted this 1st day of November, 1993, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT:None RESOLUTION TO ACCEPT BID FOR PURCHASE OF HYDRANT REPAIR PARTS & FIRE HYDRANTS RESOLUTION NO. 641, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHEREAS, the Director of Purchasing for the Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New York, duly advertised for the purchase of hydrant repair parts & fire hydrants, as more specifically identified in bid documents, specifications previously submitted and in possession of the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury, and WHEREAS, Vellano Brothers has submitted the lowest bid for the aforementioned hydrant repair parts & fire hydrants, (a copy of the bid proposal being presented to this meeting), and WHEREAS, Thomas K. Flaherty, Superintendent of the Water Department, has recommended that the bid be awarded to the aforesaid bidder, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New York, hereby awards the bid for hydrant repair parts & fire hydrants to Vellano Brothers, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that said hydrants are to be paid for from the appropriate Water Department Account. Duly adopted this 1st day of November, 1993, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT:None RESOLUTION TO SET PUBLIC HEARING ON APPLICATION FOR REVOCABLE PERMIT TO LOCATE A MOBILE HOME OUTSIDE OF MOBILE HOME COURT FOR TIMOTHY AND MARION MC KINNEY RESOLUTION NO.: 642, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury regulates mobile homes outside of mobile home parks pursuant to ~ 113 -12 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury, and WHEREAS, Timothy and Marion McKinney have filed an application for a permit, in accordance with said ~113-12 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury, to replace their old mobile home with a new mobile home at property situated at Box 123, Minnesota Avenue, Queensbury, New York, and WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury determines it to be appropriate to hold a public hearing regarding said permit, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury will hold a public hearing on November 15, 1993 at 7:00 p.m., at the Queensbury Activities Center, 531 Bay Road, Town of Queensbury, Warren County, New York, to consider the application by Timothy and Marion McKinney for a permit to substitute a new mobile home for an existing mobile home on property situated at Box 123, Minnesota Avenue, Queensbury, New York, and at that time all persons interested in the subject thereof will be heard, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk of the Town of Queensbury be and is hereby directed and authorized to publish and provide notice of said public hearing in the official newspaper of the Town of Queensbury, to post a copy thereof on the bulletin board of the Office of the Town Clerk, and to mail a copy thereof to the Town Planning Board, at least 10 days prior to said hearing. Duly adopted this 1st day of November, 1993, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT:None Discussion held-Councilman Tucker-Mr. Martin is this in the Mobile Home overlay zone? Mr. Martin-No. Discussion held on Resolution concerning management advisory team Councilman Ciamano-Before you introduce this motion is that it is not needed. By law the first Whereas paragraph is all past tense meaning it has already been done and this is just to verify secondly by law the Supervisor is allowed to have any kind of committee he or she so chooses thirdly we have had committees in the past including one that Mr. Hoenck and the others have served on and no one has seen fit to make a resolution out of that so I think the resolution is unneeded and superfluous. Councilman Monahan-Secondly we don't have some of those positions either. Councilman Caimano- The first position isn't even in place yet. Councilman Monahan-Or the engineer. Supervisor Brandt-While all that is true I do not think it is ridiculous because I think it is an implementation of the management philosophy and its not a Supervisor's Committee it is a Town Board Committee and that is very different. Councilman Caimano- The Whereas Clause says here it is very specific to this Supervisor it says 'Whereas the Town Supervisor of Queensbury has developed a style of management such that the Town Supervisor meets with etc. etc., etc., this is very much to the current Supervisor not to Supervisor's in general. Supervisor Brandt-To me it goes hand and glove with the Department of Public Utilities it is acknowledging a system of management and its setting it up for the benefit of the Board and to advise the Board and I will introduce it. Is there a second? Councilman Tucker-I got to do it again? Councilman Caimano-You do not have to. Supervisor Brandt-No one has to. Councilman Tucker-But if we don't it does not get into the process. Councilman Caimano-That is correct. Councilman Monahan-But you cannot do it anyway Pliney, you can't put a director of the department of public utilities in place until January 1, you do not have a Town Engineer so it is kind of a mute thing. Supervisor Brandt -You can start without all the positions filled, you have given it some beginnings and it builds it own momentum. Councilman Monahan-Plus the fact I have a problem with the Town Supervisor is the only one that meets with them and wants the blessing of the Town Board but the Town Supervisor is the only one that can meet with them the Town Supervisor has that authority now and I think it is piece of garbage legislation we got enough of those on the books and we don't need anymore taking up space. Supervisor Brandt-Now wait a minute, I got a problem with that because you sat here at a public hearing and chastised our Attorney for taking part in the meetings and this acknowledges that he has a right to be there and you cannot have it both ways. I am asking for the Town Board to say that we have a right to manage and meet and use the resources of this Town for the management of the Town in that context it is there. Councilman Ciamano-Let me read you page 116 ofN.Y. Consolidated Law Service, Number 34 it says the Supervisor shall be the chief executive officer of a suburban town and head of the administrative branch of government. Supervisor Brandt-But suburban town you are not Councilman Ciamano-A second class town Councilman Monahan-Get to the part about the part about the first class town and you will find it still in there too. Supervisor Brandt-So does that mean the Supervisor can meet with the Attorney without the Attorney getting his ass handed to him in a public meeting? Councilman Caimano-Absolutely. You can meet with the Attorney any time you want to. Councilman Monahan-I do not think it is good use of the Attorneys time, I do not think the Attorney should be doing policy for this town, it was not the purpose of the Town Attorney and because he is doing policy for the Town which I do not figure is part of the Attorneys job then other things are not being able to be done and you know how far we are behind a lot of Attorney things. You said to Nick, Nick had a ordinance that he wanted to propose or a local law about salaries of elected officials he gave it to the Attorney way last May and you told Nick when that there was not the time to do it. The Attorney did not have time for that. Supervisor Brandt-What I am asking for is a formal structure where department heads the head of finance the head of Attorney the Engineer know that they can come to this with out being subject to the kind of critism that your subjecting them to. This is policy it is a Town Board decision that they can do that then you as a Town Board don't have a right to chew on them for doing it. So I am putting it on the table. Councilman Monahan-Sounds good except it came in our packet Friday and you did not know that I was going to criticism it until today. Supervisor Brandt - I did not care. Councilman Caimano- The point is you have a right to talk to these folks anytime you want and the Attorney also and you and other Supervisor's have been doing it odd infinitum that is not going to stop any criticism that individual board members have. Supervisor Brandt -Odd infinitum we have done it on a few occasions as we needed. Councilman Caimano- The Supervisor has been discussing matters with the Town Attorney as well as department heads forever, as far as I know, it does not make any difference that is the way things are done, I am not saying it is right or wrong I am making a moral judgement. Supervisor Brandt-I have that right but I want. Councilman Caimano-And we have the right to criticize whether you pass this law or not. Supervisor Brandt-I think if you pass this as a Town Board management or part of our structure then I think the Board Members better be careful in... Councilman Caimano-So the purpose of this is the shield certain members of the Town Employees set up then it is not for anything other than to shield some certain members? That is what you are telling us. Supervisor Brandt-It is to set policy of the Board of how it wants to manage its affairs. Councilman Goetz-Could I make a suggestion? Supervisor Brandt-Did anyone second it? Councilman Tucker-I haven't yet. No. Councilman Goetz-Could I make a suggestion, by God. I think the idea of the resolution is good, but I question the wording of it at the present moment, based on the fact that, that resolution for the public utilities department was passed, I think it is too specific to the current Supervisor and I think maybe that should be worded differently. I am for the resolution but I think based on what we have just done tonight that is not a good wording in the first paragraph. Supervisor Brandt-Would you like to re-word it? Councilman Goetz-I just don't think it is good to have it specific to any Town Supervisor. Supervisor Brandt-I would welcome your input on re-drafting it and we will bring it back. RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING PEGGY ANN ROAD CAPITAL PROJECT FUND RESOLUTION NO.: 643,93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Pliney Tucker WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is desirous of establishing a Capital Project Fund and establishing therein appropriations for certain improvements planned for Peggy Ann Road in the Town of Queensbury, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby authorizes and directs the establishment of a capital project fund to be known as the Peggy Ann Road Capital Project Fund for purposes of making improvements to Peggy Ann Road in the vicinity of the intersection of Peggy Ann Road and Wintergreen Roads, which fund would establish funding for all work and purchases of all materials, etc. necessary to make improvements, including engineering and legal expense, at an estimated cost not to exceed $75,000, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby establishes appropriations for said new capital project fund in the amount of $75,0000, with the source of funding to be $75,000 from the General Fund of the Town of Queensbury, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby increases appropriations in the Town of Queensbury General Fund Interfund Transfer Account by $75,000 and hereby authorizes the transfer of the same to the Peggy Ann Road Capital Project Fund, and the 1993 Town Budget is hereby amended accordingly, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, to transfer appropriations from the General Fund Contingency Account to the above Interfund Transfer Account, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby authorizes the Town Supervisor to transfer funds and take all action that may be necessary to effectuate the terms and provisions of this resolution. Duly adopted this 1st day of November, 1993, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brandt NOES: None ABSENT:None Discussion held-Fire Companys to meet with the Town Board on 11-10-93 no time set... RESOLUTION RESCHEDULING PUBLIC HEARINGS RESOLUTION NO. 644, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury reschedules the following public hearings Resolution No. 591, Home Occupation, Resolution 621 Setbacks, Resolution, 623, No. Passing Luzerne Road, Resolution No. 622, Traveling Lanes Mt. View Lane from November 22nd, 1993 to November 29th, 1993. Duly adopted this 1st day of November, 1993, by the following vote: Ayes: Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Brandt Noes: None Absent:None RESOLUTION CANCELING TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 645, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby cancels the Regular Town Board Meeting for November 8th, 1993. Duly adopted this 1st day of November, 1993, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Brandt Noes: None Absent:None DISCUSSION HELD Councilman Goetz-Spoke to the Board regarding a correspondence received from Mrs. Graves, 38 Wintergreen Road requesting a four-way stop at Heresford Lane and Wintergreen. Councilman Tucker-Noted he suggested that they get a petition together from residents in the immediate area and bring it back to the Board. Councilman Tucker to contact Mrs. Graves. Spoke to the Board regarding letter received from Bay Ridge Volunteer Fire Company regarding 1993 contract was a roll over from 1992 due to lack of negotiations, noted that there were no negotiations that it was an established figure. Councilman Monahan-Noted it was a two year contract. ATTORNEY MATTERS Attorney Dusek-As your Attorney, I try to meet all of the demands of the Town Board and each individual member of the Town Board as, I think and hope each one of you know. Also, as your Attorney I really try desperately not to become involved in policy matters. When I am brought into conversations or asked for input it's a matter of rendering a legal opinion as to what the laws are, what the laws will allow providing whatever insight I can from a legal standpoint. If the Board should feel that the relationship between myself and the Board members is not going along smoothly, please let me know because it is my goal to obviously maintain a high degree of service to this Board. I think I have attempted to meet that since I've been with you since 1992. When I was asked to cut back I cut back. When I was asked to meet with other departments and cut their services back, I did that. When I was asked to pick up the labor law matters so we could release the Labor Attorney, I did that. I've tried to do this for you, but I have some concerns after tonight that there may be some misinterpretations as to exactly what my current position is. If there are any problems and we need to talk them out, I would certainly be willing to do that. Councilman Goetz-Asked Attorney Dusek for the update of the QEDC matter? Attorney Dusek-Has asked for information and has yet to receive it from QEDC. Councilman Goetz- Apologized to Board members for being remised in not reviewing what was going on with QEDC/Astro-Valcour/AMG at the time. OPEN FORUM Lewis Stone-Requested when the Town Clerk reads a letter to the public that the name be stated first. Town Board-In agreement. John Salvador-Spoke to the Board regarding the Resolution for Peggy Ann Road Capital Project Fund. Questioned how the Town can established this as a Town road improvement program? Supervisor Brandt-Noted this is a specific project. Mr. Salvador-Spoke to the Board regarding the Dunham's Bay Road, noting that the Town Board may be faced with bringing the road up to Town road standards. Supervisor Brandt-Noted that this comes out of the budget and the Town Board sets priorities of paving each year. Mr. Salvador-Asked if Warren County has granted the funds for the Supplemental EIS? Supervisor Brandt-No. Noted the Lake George Affairs Committee requested it, then it goes to the Finance Committee. It has to be approved by the Finance Committee then the full Board. Mr. Salvador-Asked if the Budget will be available to the public prior to the Budget Hearing Meeting? Town Clerk, Dougher-Noted that the budget is currently available in the Town Clerk's Office. Executive Director, Mr. Martin-Spoke to the Town Board regarding the hiring of the Assistant Building Inspector. Questioned what format the Board wanted to use in hiring? Board Members-It was the decision of the Town Board to have the Executive Director interview the top three and then hire. Councilman Monahan-Noted she would like to see the qualifications of the top three. AUDIT OF BILLS RESOLUTION APPROVING AUDIT OF BILLS RESOLUTION NO. 646, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Susan Goetz RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves the Abstract appearing on November 1st, 1993 and numbering 93403700 through 93422000 and totaling $120,517.59. Duly adopted this 1st day of November, 1993, by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Tucker, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Brandt Noes: None Absent:None Abstain: Mrs. Monahan #000453, CWI Mr. Caimano #000127 Post Star RESOLUTION ADJOURNING MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 647, 93 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Michel Brandt WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Regular Meeting. Duly adopted this 1st day of November, 1993, by the following vote: Ayes: Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Tucker, Mr. Brandt Noes: None Absent:None No further action taken. On motion, the meeting was adjourned. Respectfully Submitted, Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk Town of Queensbury