2007-09-17 SP MTG40
994
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-17-2007 MTG. #40
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. #40
September 17, 2007 RES. 412
6:30 P.M.
TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC
COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR
COUNCILMAN RICHARD SANFORD
COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH
COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER
DISCUSSION: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT UPDATE
Zoning Administrator Craig Brown-Questioned if Town Counsel had given information
to the Town Board on Garage Sales.
Board noted they had received the information.
Supervisor Stec-I think the way to do it is a time prohibit prohibition. A suggestion was
made to have two to four week long windows during the year and say you can do them
then rather than every weekend.
Board held discussion and did not agree with the two to four week long window.
Supervisor Stec-Will set a public hearing on the proposed local law as written by Town
Counsel.
Councilman Brewer-Noted that Mr. George Ryan was questioning why it was taking a
long time to allow the placement of a building where a previous building stood.
Administrator Brown-He had a green house there is no building permits for those, that is
not what he wants to do now, apparently the green house collapsed in the winter he wants
to build a stick frame building totally different construction that requires a building
permit and triggers site plan review which the Planning Board told me they wanted to
see.
Councilman Sanford-Spoke to the Board regarding the uses of RFP’s and Bidding
practices.
Sr. Planner Baker-Re: Grant Administration recommended RFP be done on this.
Councilman Sanford-When will this decision have to be made in order to have smooth
administration of this new grant?
st
Sr. Planner Baker-The HCR is going to have their contract effective October 1 however
it is their expectations that the Towns will not finalize their administrative programs on
this until the Spring, the rehab efforts beginning in earnest in the building season.
Supervisor Stec-If we felt more comfortable within an RFP we have that time line.
Sr. Planner Baker-Correct.
Councilman Sanford-The point I am trying to get across here is I do not think we have to
give you that kind of direction on everything but that you can make inquiries on your
own as all department heads do in the course of their day to day operations so that the
Board had a resource available to us.
Sr. Planner Baker-I am getting confused I thought the Town Board was a Department
Head of Community Development that is what this Board had stated previously.
Councilman Sanford-Then what are you here for? We are looking for you as a resource.
995
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-17-2007 MTG. #40
Sr. Planner Baker-I understand you are looking for a resource, if you were looking for
price quotes on a product of equipment that would have been very easy to call around and
gather, but on a service which is rather involved with this grant it is my opinion is that an
RFP is the most appropriate way to get an apples to apples price comparison.
Councilman Sanford-Noted that Ms. Tierney is researching an insurance claim, the
incident made in 2006 but filed with the new carrier…spoke on audits for Fire and EMS,
encourage Ms. Tierney to get South Queensbury Fire up to date, qualified statement for
2005 and 2006 I requested that they do that ASAP.
Councilman Strough-The CEA Shore line Critical Environmental Area Zone we have
been working on it. Questioned if there are any needs or problems in the Community
Development Dept.?
Supervisor Stec-Noted in the last week there has been two cases of Dave’s that have been
finally disposed of. One officially disposed of one was heard today.
Councilman Strough-Is it getting to be a drag with out another land use planner?
Administrator Brown-To do all the Zoning Board Meetings is a little bit of an extra
burden, the meetings, the preparation, notes and review of the applications a lot of the pre
submission meetings with the applicants to make sure the application is in order, a lot of
that weight was carried by Susan. Is it overwhelming are we not getting any of that
done? No, I think we are getting all of that done but at the expense of the other things.
May be paying a lot of time to the CEA Shore Line Zoning section you do the day to day
stuff and the extra you have to …
Councilman Strough-We want to get some of this stuff done, we have not even started
touching the Zoning, Part B, we have to get somebody down there and I think the sooner
the better. Dave is your department ok personnel wise?
Director Hatin-Yes.
Councilman Boor-Noted a questioned was raised that a lot of the work that Shelter
Planning was doing was not inspected by the Town?
Director Hatin-We instituted the policy last year that we would issue building permits on
any HUD project because we were getting complaints after the fact. Recommended that
in the next RFP building permits should be obtained and have to close the building permit
out before they get paid.
Sr. Planner Baker-We do have language in the standard contract we have between the
homeowner and the contractor stating the contractor is responsible for getting all
necessary building permits.
Supervisor Stec-The work flow with the Zoning Board and application review with the
Chairman is that working?
Administrator Brown-That has been hit and miss. Reviewed former practices, at the
request of the Zoning Board the Chairman does not do completeness review he still
reviews the applications to set the final agenda. Prior to his review I review the
applications he also developed a check list, noted that is not always consistent, with
applications being brought forward to the Board and others not. I think consistency is
lacking, if you do A for one person you have got to be prepared to do A for the next
person. If the process is to continue it needs to be consistent. I have tried to have
discussions with the Zoning Board Chairman I am just staff I do not tell them what to do.
It is functioning but it could be better.
Councilman Strough-Do we have a written policy covering this?
996
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-17-2007 MTG. #40
Administrator Brown-No. I have suggested several times in the past that similar to what
the Planning Board did there are policies and procedures document for the Board, I
suggested that the Zoning Board adopt the same document.
Councilman Brewer-It should be in black and white.
Councilman Sanford-I like your idea of policy and procedures manual.
Director Hatin-1. Jeff Myers sent you an e-mail about updating Chapter 88 with property
maintenance code so we can take care of problems on properties. Problem with persons
abandoning properties and we do not have authority to go onto the property and do
anything and I cannot run down the property owner because their whereabouts are
unknown. This change in the law would enable us to contract out the maintenance of that
property. The costs would be added to the property taxes.
Councilman Brewer-When you get cases like this drop us an e-mail or note and let us
know what is going on.
Councilman Boor-Asked that Town Counsel look into the liability of town employees on
private property if they get hurt, what is the liability.
Director Hatin-I can sub it out.
Supervisor Stec-Get those questions answered.
Director Hatin-Would like to do the garage sale law and this one at that same time. 2. 39
Belle Avenue we had a fire in July burned the roof off, the gentleman that owns it the last
I knew was in jail, the property was up for tax sale they pulled the sale because of a title
problem, I asked if that would prevent the town from demolishing the building and she
said not as far as she knows it is a title problem for the county. We are looking at
between twelve and thirteen thousand dollars for the demolition. I will get three bids on
this before we do it.
Board agreed to set a hearing on this structure.
DISCUSSION: HOME GRANT ADMINISTRATION – SHELTER
PLANNING BOB MURRAY
Councilman Brewer-Brought before the Board an issue of a home with possibly four
individuals living in, ask for the Board to see situation, no sheetrock on the ceilings,
plastic on the ceilings with insulation soaked coming down thorough, an old fuse box
with glass fuses, and there were extension cords going from room to room with two or
three or four things plugged in. It was very dark in the house in the afternoon, a
contractor suggested gutting the house, new walls, ceiling, new insulation, new bathroom,
they have just cold water on a well and no hot water, the conditions are deplorable. My
suggestion is, the price of the grant if we have to go five thousand dollars more with the
grant and five thousand dollar loan my suggestion is to demolish the structure and put a
modular or some that meets the code.
Mr. Bob Murray-Noted there is an exception to rehabbing a house, the State would let
you replace it if you had a means to do it. We would like to have a meeting with what
ever members you want in staff to talk about some of the more complications that arise if
you wanted to proceed with replacement.
Supervisor Stec-Noted there is a terrible need, the rehab route is going to be probably not
worth the effort but the flip side if we go the path you are suggesting and it is going to be
well over our means, so that means instead of helping twenty we can do eighteen.
997
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-17-2007 MTG. #40
Councilman Brewer-When you look at these case by case and you look at houses that I
have seen that we have done, certainly housing need siding but is it an absolute that they
have to have it? You have to make exceptions and look at these.
Sr. Planner Baker-Noted he had spoke to the Dept. of Housing and Community Renewal
about this project and I ask specifically would they support the town working off 2007
grant application to include it if the Town Board so decided a demolition and replacement
of this particular unit, the response was yes we could do that up to a certain cost. We
would what to see the Town pulling funds from other sources as well to support this
project. Warren County does have a home replacement program, designed around
mobile home and in fact DHCR suggested we talk with the county about the size and cost
of the homes they have been providing.
Councilman Boor-If they cannot afford the electricity now, are they going to be able to
afford electricity when they have a new home?
Supervisor Stec-Lets get the quote; your proposed route turns up for a number and take it
from there.
Councilman Strough-Suggested contacting Habitat for Humanity or BOCES.
Mr. Murray-Noted that Habitat for Humanity did a home in Glens Falls using the grant
funds, noted they only do a couple of houses every few years.
Councilman Brewer-I want to get creative with this and I need the support of the board.
DISCUSSION CONTINUED FROM LAST MEETING
Mr. Murray-Re: Septic system issue…to my knowledge we have never done a rehab with
just a septic system, that is not rehab. All the septic system stuff that goes on and there
has been a number of them are the first step in the rehab process, as far as I know anytime
we do a septic system it maybe because there is a problem right now and we want to get
that out to bid so it is separate spec it is a separate bid, separate contract but the next step
is the inspection and the lead work and weatherization work and all the stuff that follows
so that particular process isn’t just a septic system.
Councilman Sanford-It is our intention that we want to get as much money poured into
the actual project as possible therefore we are looking at really good value with admin.
You are tending at about fourteen percent and or on average working out reasonably well,
most of the project are in the range of the twenty-ish number and then you get the two
thousand fee so there is a ten percent factor, so on average it does not seem like we have
a problem, but potentially if for some reason and another we drop down and did a whole
series of smaller projects then the percent of overhead could go up significantly, which is
something we do not want to see. Noted the Board received you e-mail, where you said
you did not want to move to a percentile application you felt it worked out reasonably
well with the way we had been doing it. You gave a number of 14%. We are talking
about a four hundred thousand dollar grant, why don’t we proceed the way we are doing
it at the two thousand per project merely subject to a ceiling for the grant at lets say not to
exceed at the end of the grant exhausting of funds fourteen or …percent.
Mr. Murray-Why don’t we do it the way the State allows, the typical cost can go up to
eighteen percent, I am at fourteen percent so right now my proposal is significantly lower
than what is acceptable. I have given you a proposal that gives you more money to spend
on projects then typically what the State says. For discussion purposes we will do it our
way but not to exceed sixty thousand when the State will allow you to go seventy two.
Councilman Sanford-That is fine, what I am trying to avoid here is, I talked to Stu and he
gave me a list a while back of other players that do this kind of work that your firm does
and he gave me seven, and we have made no inquiries of these other players as to what
their terms would be, quite honestly I think we have a nice fit here. I think the Town is
pretty happy with you, we are not necessarily obligated to RFP this but what I fell I have
an obligation is to make sure we are getting a very good value at the end of the day, I
998
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-17-2007 MTG. #40
don’t have any reason to suspect that in the past we haven’t but I want to make sure that
in the future we do. By going in with what you have been averaging as the ceiling and let
you continue to bill at the two thousand to me would be a win, win for both of us.
Supervisor Stec-I think we are in agreement, is that Richard had proposed proceeding the
way we have been billing and setting a cap of I think he used your number of fourteen
percent or thereabouts and you said cap it at sixty thousand which is fifteen percent.
Mr. Murray-Right now it is sixteen percent for Admin plus forty is fifty six if you put the
cap at sixty and we will do it this way if it comes out fifty six five.
Councilman Sanford-For four thousand dollars lets just do it.
Supervisor Stec-We are in agreement then. Stu has taken the notes and he will send it to
Town Counsel and Pam and we will get a draft for our review, if it is ready it will be on
for Monday night to cap the whole program at sixty.
DISCUSSION: WATER DEPARTMENT ENERGY AUDIT REVIEW AND
RECOMMENDATIONS
Water Supt. Bruce Ostrander-Re: Low lift pumps replaced the drives; we do not need the
other filter that is a savings of thirty six thousand. We have one more drive to go. We
need to replace drives on the two original high lift pumps the only two that have not been
either replaced or rebuilt, high lifts one and two which were put in, in 1975.
Engineer Chris Harrington-The Public Service Commission mandated large users of
electricity to be under mandatory hourly pricing. There is an incentive to use more
electricity at night and less during the day that would be a perfect fit for us. To do that I
needed to know where our pumps were at, how efficient, how far off the curb were they,
were they designed right for flows we wanted to do and take it from there. There are
programs out there to reimburse people who want to make improvements for energy
efficiencies. We want to have them look at just our pumps, we sat down with
NYSERTA and we got their approved contractor Barton and Loguidice and came to an
agreement they kicked in half we paid half and they came up with an energy efficiency
study. Reviewed history of the existing pumps and their future use. We think it would
be more appropriate to purchase one 300 hp pump and if we need to expand in the future
to attack the additional winter demand during an expansion. The payback would be two
years.
Superintendent Ostrander-Our demand will grow so instead of two three hundreds and
out growing the three hundreds you get a three hundred now and then later on get the
larger one when it is your average flow.
Councilman Sanford-I would certainly go along with your recommendation. Questioned
why the higher demand for water in the winter?
Supervisor Stec-You are wasting money by running the bigger pumps, not the demand
for more water. You want to follow the recommendation from B&L and you want to go
with the one pump instead of two pumps.
Engineer Chris Harrington -Noted he will be more comfortable when the final analysis is
done by the engineers and they put their stamp on it.
Supervisor Stec-You are doing more work on this and eventually at some point you are
going to come to us with a resolution to buy a pump.
Engineer Chris Harrington -Spoke to the Board regarding the altitude valve, we have a
problem at the Luzerne Road Tank we are pumping at night, we would like pump eleven
million by mid night, without overflowing the tank. I cannot maximize the flow rate until
3am when the draw start. An altitude valve would go to a certain number and close the
Luzerne Road force the water up to North West to Gurney Lane and fill our Gurney Lane
999
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-17-2007 MTG. #40
tanks. I feel comfortable with this improvement, saving forty thousand dollars a year,
NYSERTA will kick in close to another forty to fifty thousand dollars a year as
incentives to do it. To install the new pump would be approximately sixty five thousand
dollars and to install the altitude valve is another sixty thousand dollars, the engineering
is about twenty, that is a hundred and twenty thousand dollars and between the efficiency
savings and the NYSERTA savings it is a hundred thousand dollars you get back the first
year. It will be a year and a half payback.
Supervisor Stec-The Board is saying go forward and do it.
Director Ostrander-Noted they also want to standardize the ABB drives and we will spec
those for the next drives. All the altitude valves are Ross valves we also want to
standardize.
Engineer Chris Harrington-There are people that will pay you to run your generator, they
will take capacity, take off the grid and they put the capacity out to bid and they will pay
you money to run your generator and they will pay you also if you are called in an event.
If we run the generator one hour in the summer and one hour in the winter they will pay
us fifty six hundred dollars plus the price of the fuel. It is a one page agreement. Lastly,
we need an engineer to make Department of Health submittals, there are two programs
that NYSERTA’s has the Enhanced Industrial Commercial Program Enhancement and
there is Peak Load. The Enhanced Commercial needs a third party, we think it needs to
be B&L they are approved by NYSERTA and they have done the Energy Audit, they
have the computer model so when they plug in the numbers they have our system. We
would like permission to go forward to request a proposal with price from Barton and
Loguidice.
Councilman Boor-Requested several prices.
Engineer Chris Harrington-Noted that we need to apply for these by March of next year
we also like the improvements in by next year.
Supervisor Stec-Set a meeting tomorrow with the Accounting Office and Purchasing to
review the proposals, if there is any questions at all we will contact Town Counsel.
Engineer Chris Harrington-Reviewed the hydroelectric dam a turbine is being placed in
… would like review the possibility of running low lift pumps off it, would shave off
2KW off National Grid saving $4,000 a month.
Councilman Strough-Would there be an advantage of working with Saratoga County in
using this electricity, buying and sharing it, just an option to look at.
Councilman Boor-Spoke about increasing the Water Dist. on Ridge Road to Sunnyside E.
Noted residents of Lake Sunnyside have shallow wells or pull water from the lake.
DISCUSSION: WGF EMS FUNDING REQUEST
Supervisor Stec-The contract with the Town this year you did not use all that was
allocated for debt because your building was not finished, you are looking for permission
from the Board to allow you to shift some of that money from 2007 debt allotment to the
2007 operations.
Representative of WGF EMS-That is correct. Noted there have been some major
breakdowns with the Ambulances, and we have done large repairs more than once this
year. We had budgeted fifteen thousand for the year for repairs we have been running
three to four thousand per month for the last few months, I am concerned about that. The
units have been breaking down and we have had some electrical problems. Noted that
the call volume has increased.
1000
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-17-2007 MTG. #40
Supervisor Stec-You have made it clear to me in next years budget one of the things you
would like to do is purchase an ambulance, you want to work with the other two vehicles.
You are working to have a program with three ambulances.
Representative of WGF EMS-We are using our ambulances for seven or eight calls per
day, year round.
Supervisor Stec-What is the typical age of an ambulance that we have been replacing?
Representative of WGF EMS-five to eight years.
Councilman Brewer-Could you break it down to what expenses need to be paid?
Representative of WGF EMS-Noted that they do not know what the expenses will be in
the new building, plowing, and cleaning. Quotes for cleaning building we are looking at
thirteen hundred dollars a month.
Supervisor Stec-The Board would like to see a break down on the request for twenty
seven thousand.
Representative of WGF EMS-I estimated the cost of the rig was twenty thousand
between now and the end of the year. Spoke on the electrical problems with the vehicle.
Supervisor Stec-If the Board is agreeable to the concept that you have too much in one
category and not enough in another we are not comfortable that anyone here can say this
is the amount that we are going to need that if we are agreeable to this and if we find out
that it is legal would it be something that would work if we structure it in a way where we
said you can use that as you go rather than say move twenty seven tomorrow. You can
use against that and provide us the detail as you go.
Representative of WGF EMS-I have segregated the funds and said that we are not going
to use them until the Board actually allows us to use the funds. It has grown because
when we gave you the initial analysis we still had not been making the principal payment
for August or September so therefore it is really thirty three thousand that I have kept
segregated that we are not spending as part of our budget.
Councilman Sanford-What do you show for cash right now?
Representative of WGF EMS-One hundred and three thousand. The case actually covers
the P&I the debt.
Councilman Sanford-What do you have for cash that is not committed?
Representative of WGF EMS-I think it is somewhere around fifty thousand.
Councilman Sanford-So you have cash enough to cover these expenses,
Representative of WGF EMS-We really don’t when you look at the normal expenses,
telephone bills, utilities, extra insurance costs for the new building.
Councilman Sanford-Requested a copy of their in house financials.
Representative of WGF EMS-Yes.
Supervisor Stec-We need a little more detail about where there shortages are and then
what your current cash position is and what do you anticipate for expenses, October,
November …
Councilman Sanford-Requested their revenue and expenses, balance sheet, cash flow and
then a copy as to a particular point the general ledger.
1001
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-17-2007 MTG. #40
Councilman Boor-Questioned what percentage increase did you use for vehicle fuel?
Representative of WGF EMS-3%
Supervisor Stec-When we meet again on this it might be a time to discuss the ambulance
purchase.
DISCUSSION: WGF FIRE TOWER 4 REPAIR AND EMS VEHICLE
REPLACEMENT
Supervisor Stec-The EBR proposal was just received and will be passed on to the Chief’s
of each fire district. You are here to talk about replacing the 1985 Chev. ¾ ton pickup
you wish to take a loan out over the next few years you also have a quote to repair Tower
4.
TOWER 4
Representative of WGF Fire Co.-Received permission to send Tower 4 to Lands Detroit
Diesel, the tower has been down for six months, it will need a new motor job, new
sleeves in the cylinders, new piston rings, they are going to do rods, they are good to do
new bearings, heads, they will rebuild the whole motor.
Board agreed to the repair of the Tower.
Supervisor Stec-We will need to set a public hearing, if the Board is agreeable to the
fifteen thousand and thirty six dollars and forty one cents for this quote to amend the
th
contract to get this work done. Possible date of public hearing October 15.
BRUSH TRUCK
Supervisor Stec-A 22 year old vehicle to be replaced with another F-350, you want to
borrow thirty two thousand and pay for it over five years, you need permission from the
Town to borrow for this purchase.
Councilman Boor-Can we include this in your 2008 budget instead of amending the
2007?
Representative of WGF Fire Co.-The figures are already in the 2008 proposed budget.
We could buy the truck now and make the three months payments in this years budget
and then budget for the rest, next year. We want to get started on this now.
Supervisor Stec-If a public hearing is necessary we will piggy back the two for the same
night.
DISCUSSION: TOWN BUDGET
Supervisor Stec-Presented the Tentative Budget to the Town Board Members.
Councilman Sanford-Spoke on the Budgets for the Fire Companies, deal with the Capital
Purchases on a piece meal basis but on the operational aspect of it we ought to be
trending off from audit.
Supervisor Stec-Requested that Board Members e-mail dates that they are available.
1002
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 09-17-2007 MTG. #40
st
Councilman Strough-Requested time at the October 1 meeting for a power point
presentation regarding Blind Rock.
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
RESOLUTION NO. 412.2007
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
RESOLVED,
that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Town
Board Meeting.
th
Duly adopted this 17 day of September, 2007 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Sanford, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Respectfully submitted,
Miss Darleen M. Dougher
Town Clerk-Queensbury