1994-10-17
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING
OCTOBER 17, 1994
7:30 P.M.
MTG#55
RES# 520-533
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
Supervisor Fred Champagne
Councilman Carol Pulver
Councilman Nick Caimano
Councilman George Wiswall
Councilman Betty Monahan
TOWN ATTORNEY
Paul Dusek
TOWN OFFICIALS
Mike Shaw, Jim Martin, Rick Missita, Paul Naylor
Supervisor Fred Champagne-Opened the meeting.
RESOLUTION ENTERING EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 520, 94
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Carol Pulver
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Regular Session and
moves into Executive Session to discuss personnel matters.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1994, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Monahan, Dr. Wiswall, Mr. Caimano, Mrs. Pulver, Mr.
Champagne
Noes: None
AbsentNone
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 521, 94
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Carol Pulver
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from Regular Session and
moves back into Executive Session.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1994, by the following vote:
Ayes: Dr. Wiswall, Mr. Caimano, Mrs. Pulver, Mrs. Monahan, Mr.
Champagne
Noes: None
AbsentNone
6:00 P.M. INFORMATIONAL MEETING HELD REGARDING QUEENSBURY FOREST
(TAPE ON FILE IN TOWN CLERK'S OFFICE)
PUBLIC HEARINGS
PUBLIC HEARING
NOTICE SHOWN
OPENED 7:35 P.M.
WILTON DEVELOPMENTAL HOME - SUSAN PLACE
Supervisor Champagne-Read the following letter into the record, dated September 27th, 1994. Dear
Supervisor Champagne: Please consider this correspondence official notification of the interest and intent
of the Wilton Developmental Disability Service Office to establish a residences for mentally retarded and
developmentally disabled persons in the Town of Queensbury. This notification is provided in compliance
with Section 4134 of the New York State Mental Hygiene Law. The Wilton DDSO has identified a
potential property located at 8 Susan Place for the establishment of a residence for five adults who are
mentally retarded/developmentally disabled. The Wilton Office is a district office operated by New York
State Office of Mental Retardation and Developmental Disabilities and is designed to service the mentally
retarded and developmentally disabled citizens of Fulton, Montgomery, Saratoga, Warren, Washington,
and Hamilton Counties. The office has developed and now operated forty six community residential
programs in a six county area, nine of which are in Warren County. To continue the state wide mission of
this institutionalization the Wilton Office is seeking to establish community base residential facilities which
will eventually enable all individuals now residing at the Wilton Center the opportunities for normal life
enriching experiences within municipalities close to their families and friends. With that, we're here to
have a public hearing so I'll open the public hearing for that.
Mr. Dan Donohue-representative from Wilton Developmental Center. Fred it is a informational meeting
rather than a hearing.
Supervisor Champagne-Information meeting, excuse me.
Mr. Donohue-What I'll try to do is give a little background. I won't go to into great detail, but let me give
you some background so at least you'll have that. The fact of the matter is that the whole process of the
institutionalization started about twenty years ago. It is a world wide event that has happened all over the
world and the fact of the matter is that institutions as we used to know them are no longer valid. The
institutions for the mentally retarded have started to close down not just here in New York State, but all
over United States in addition to Europe and even in Asia. The concept is to try to put people back where
they live normally which is in a neighborhood. One of the reasons that we did that, of course, is the fact
that it was overcrowded in the institution. That institutions in themselves are inherently bad they are very
difficult to live in, you've all been in institutions at one time or the another. You know as a group you have
to rule as a group rather than as individuals you can't give individual attention. The fact is that the
construction of large institutions are not only costly to build, but are also extremely costly to maintain. The
fact is no matter how you look they wind up in the end being overcrowded, in fact being not useful. The
whole process then started in United Stated when President Kennedy came in and started a movement to
say that there ought to be something done for the mentally retarded and the developmentally disabled. In
New York State it speeded up when Geraldo Rivera went into the Staten Island Developmental Center and
took some pictures there back in 1970's. They were pretty horrible pictures the fact is he exposed what was
very bad conditions and at that time the then Governor who was coming on who had been elected, but had
not taken office, that's Governor Carey agreed to de-institutionalized or close down the Staten Island
Developmentally Center. Once that was done then it became evident that the smart thing to do was to close
down as many as you could in New York State we had twenty at that time. We are now the tenth
developmental center that is being closed down in New York State. By the year 2000 all of the
developmentally centers will be closed down. So, that's a very quick history of what happens. As far as we
are concerned here the Wilton Developmentally Center three years ago had three hundred eighty people
living there, it served a six county area. The six counties were Fulton, Montgomery, Warren, Washington,
Saratoga, and Hamilton. During the period of the last ten years we had placed about three hundred to four
hundred people in the community most of those people had gone to Hamilton County, Fulton County, and
Montgomery County, although there had been some development in Warren, Washington, and Saratoga.
When we looked at the closure of the developmental center we said, how best can you do this. The answer
that we came up with is we would try to look at the population and see what homes were there in the
community and then try to divide it by population so that we didn't place too many people in too many
different overcrowded conditions. That's when we got to Warren County and we got to Queensbury
specifically we said we would take anywhere between fifty and twenty people and place them in
Queensbury. We would place anywhere from three and five homes in the Queensbury area. To this date
we have three homes establish in Queensbury, I think we have thirteen people. So, we're here then tonight
to talk about the home on Susan Place. It is the fourth home we're talking about and what we estimate at
this point to be the last home in Queensbury we'll have to establish here. The fact is we are just about done
with the closure, that the closure will take place on March 31st, 1995. That we have established or have
identified at least all but two homes that will be needed to do that and that has been done in the last
eighteen months. So we have done a lot of homes throughout the areas not just in Queensbury, not just
Warren County, but also in all the counties, but specifically in Warren, Washington, and Saratoga because
that's where there were no homes established originally. When we go to look for homes what we simply
look for is a three or four bedroom home that is somewhat level that if need be we can place a ramp to get
people up and down if there is need of a wheelchair. We originally we're trying to do that with only four
people in a home, but that was just about impossible and we've now gone to no more than six in a home so
there are few homes that have been establish for six. But, essentially what we have is mostly four person
and five person homes that people are going too. How do they operate they simply operate like any normal
family. That is the home is established there are people assigned there that work. The people that will
come originally are the people who worked at the developmental center then when new people come on
we hopefully will hire local people to fill their places. So, we look at it not only from the standpoint of
people who are well trained who have been there a long time, but also from the standpoint of people who
can make a family like situation. Now, there is no way in the world you can make a family of somebody
that is not a family that's for sure, but you certainly can make it like a family and that's what we try to do.
There will be approximately seven people working in a home that means there will generally be two people
there. We work twenty four hours a day seven days a week. The people in the home during the week
Monday through Friday go out to a day prograrn. That means they will leave somewhere between eight
and nine in the morning and come back between three and four in the afternoon. They will go to a day
program where they will have what we normally consider a school like approach, but isn't necessarily that
it's a training situation. On weekends they won't necessarily go to a day program, but what they will do is
go out in a recreational area. During the evening there will be two people working on the afternoon period
that would be from the time they get home until midnight and then generally two people working from
midnight until eight in the morning until they go off again. They will be the same people, the people that
work there will also cook, also take care of the house and the people that live there to the best of their
abilities will do the same thing. What impact does that have, I guess the best example of that is of all the
homes we've established and we now have forty some in the closure, but eighty some totally they operate
like any other neighborhood home. Some of you may know some of the homes in the Queensbury already,
but I'm not sure if you drove by you'd find them or identified thern. They don't look any different with
exception, we think and we know from experience of what we've already done that we try to keep them up
better than the rest of the neighbors. Now, obviously if somebody really does a heck of a job on their house
they can do better than us. But, normally we keep the houses up better than the neighbors. The grass is cut
in the summer time the snow is shoveled in the winter time the fact is we try to maintain the house better.
What do we do to the house, we generally don't have to do much except do bathrooms and also do some
inside work maybe wallpaper do some painting. We generally have to change the bathrooms over because
our people generally have physical handicaps. How many wheelchairs, any here?
Unknown-Two.
Mr. Donohue-Two, that's what I thought. So it will be two people in this particular home that will be in
wheelchairs and thus will need a ramp to get in and out. Although as you know the house it's not to high so
it's not to big a ramp. When we do put a ramp out we always like to hide that as best as possible with
bushes or whatever else we can do to make ramps so it doesn't show. What we're saying then is we have a
need for homes that the five adults that will go into this home two of them are wheelchair bound and
therefore will need help in and out. That all five of them will always need help twenty four hours a day and
will always be under constant supervision that is they will not be operating into....they will not be walking
through the neighborhoods by themselves they will need supervision with them and they will come and go
as normal people do. There will be two people working so you'll have a couple of cars there at any given
time like any normal house does anyway. My particular house my house always has three cars so this will
be a little bit better than ours. The fact is that we think that you won't have any problem and two weeks
from now, six months from now, you won't know where they are with the exception that one thing we
really want is that we would love to have everybody involved become part of a neighborhood advisory
board. That is simply a committee that is formed of neighbors that would help us assimilate into the
neighborhood to tell us if we're doing anything wrong and also to let us have an input so we can find out
what we should do as well. The one thing, I forgot and they keep telling me you better always say that is
that's all the positive's that we see. There is a negative and the negative is that since it is a state property it
does not pay taxes so it does come off the tax roll. There is nothing I can do about that what I can do is pay
fees. If there is a water fee or a sewage fee or a garbage fee those we can pay and we're willing to pay.
Now, that's probably the quickest time I've ever done that and I think this is like the forty second time. The
idea tonight is to answer any of your questions to alleviate any fears that you may have and to try to be as
honest and answer things that you may have concerns about. I can just start by saying, I honestly don't
believe that you have anything to be concerned about and that we will try to do everything that we can to
alleviate any feelings you have that are a problem for you. Having said that, I think if you address any
questions to Mr. Champagne and I'll just response as best.
Supervisor Champagne-Yeah, Dan why don't you put that mic back and take this one. I'd asked the
questioner to come to the mic and give their name then we would have the record as complete as we can get
it.
Dave Jarvis-6 Susan Place. Basically, I really don't have a question, but I can read you the concerns we
have as a group. I'm here tonight to voice several series concerns regarding the propose home at 8 Susan
Place, but first let me make it perfectly clear I am not opposed to mentally retarded people living in our
neighborhood. My wife teaches retarded children at Glens Falls High School our niece is mentally
handicap and some of our neighbors are handicapped as well. As you can see our everyday life involves
contact with handicapped people some who we love and care about very much. I am here tonight as a
father concerned about the safety and well being of two small children. Nine years ago before our children
were born we envisioned a quite street where our children could ride bikes, play kick ball without the threat
of a busy street. We then set out to buy that chuck of land that is now our address at 6 Susan Place this is
where we built our home ourselves. One week before moving in our daughter Katie was born three years
later our son Kevin was born. As, I look out the window today I realize that our hopes and dreams have
been fulfilled. Our children enjoy a carefree pleasure of playing with friends and neighbors on the road that
poses little or no threat at all traffic has always been at a minimum. We feel the placement of a state home
on Susan Place would substantially increase traffic and the neighborhood children who play on Susan Place
would be at risk. We feel it would forever change the quiet nature of our street to a busy roadway for such
a small development. Many times after school on weekends and during vacation the kids from Susan Place
have carried on competitive games in the street playing street hockey and basketball. Last spring as many
as eight neighborhood children were involved in an on-going street hockey tournament every day after
school on Susan Place. Complicating this threat is the fact that our children are not accustomed to
watching out for vehicles while riding their bikes they've never had, too. Unfortunately the increase in
traffic to and from the home by workers, interest groups, inspectors, delivery trucks, and the like will create
a potential safety hazard for our children and the visiting neighbors. At the very least the increase of traffic
will be overwhelming for such a small development. Recently two representatives from Wilton came to
Susan Place to pass out information on the propose home these same two men were able to witness our
children's lack of concern for traffic. Our children attempted to find out what the representatives were
saying to me and they crossed the line of traffic on bikes not comprehending the danger to them at the time
with no regard. Further our children and all the children in Country Colony are responsible for walking to
the nearest bus stop. That designated stop is on the corner of Bay Road and Tee Hill Road. When we
questioned Queensbury School District that our five year old and eight year old were required to walk this
kind of distance the school said that the streets on Country Colony Road and Susan Place were to narrow
for buses to come into the development. Please keep in mind collectively children walk these streets with
no sidewalks and no shoulders to and from the bus eight times a day. Our roads are too narrow for
extensive traffic and long delivery vehicles. In comparing Tee Hill Roads and the roads in our development
we found the speed limits to be the same, but our roads were seven feet narrower in width. In the winter
time our roads get to the point where on coming traffic meets one or the other has to stop to let the other
pass. The height of the snow banks also contributes to the lack of safety for walking school children and
exercising senior citizens. At one point a curve on Country Colony is totally blind for drivers to see
pedestrians in the winter time. When large trucks come to the state home for delivery of food, medical, and
home supplies they will be forced to make backing turns especially during the winter months because there
is no through traffic. National Trucking Industries report that eight percent of all trucking accidents are the
results of backing up. In Susan Place trucks will be forced to turn around by backing up because the small
nature of the neighborhood, once again our children will be at risk. All traffic that enters our development
will have to exit the same way which will result in twice as much traffic. The same safety concerns for our
children as stated above regarding the nature and the amount of traffic and the narrowest of the roads will
also put the residences of the home and state home in danger. They too will experience the same potential
threats an increase in traffic will have on such a small neighborhood.
Mr. Champagne-Thank you, Dave.
Mr. Donohue-I think there is a little misconception to start with. I don't anticipate large trucks going there
because I don't know why they would go in there. The fact is that the house will buy groceries just like you
do that is go to the grocery store and buy them. The only truck you would have in there and its not a truck
necessarily is a van to pick up people in wheelchairs cause they can't get in cars so it has to be a little
bigger, but there not big trucks they are just vans that you can get a wheelchair in. Any handicap person
would need that whether they were retarded or non-retarded it would be the same thing. The only increase
traffic that I would even think you might think about would be if people come to and from the shift for
instance when they change, but that would be identical to people coming to and from work anyway there is
no change there. For instance you came home from work tonight and came out here so you did it twice we
would do the same thing.
Mr. Jarvis-Basically our next speaker has the answer to what we feel are going to be definite traffic
problems. The only thing I can say in personal knowledge to that is that I work for United Parcel Service
and I used to deliver to Wilton Developmental Center and I was informed that when Wilton does close that
deliveries from the center will go directly to the houses.
Mr. Donahue-I assume you deliver on your street now, right?
Mr. Jarvis-Yes.
Mr. Donohue-We would get the same kind of delivery that you would we would get no more or less than
anybody else. At the institution which is what your talking about I agree it's a problem that's what we're
trying to get away from. In the homes we anticipate and with the existing homes we already do as we buy
groceries locally, we buy clothing locally nothing is bought in bulk anymore. In other words it's the same
thing as a family does so you have the same situation. If it's a problem for you as a family it's a problem
for us it is no different. However, there isn't any difference between it and that's what we want to do. One
of the reason we would love to have the committee is if things like this crop up we can work through them.
As far as buses even coming in to pick people up to go to the day program if that's a major problem we can
obviously look at a smaller van picking people up rather than a bus so a bus can't come in. We can work
around problems like that and are very happy to that by the way.
Patricia Thomas-5 Susan Place. First of all, I would like to agree with Dave tonight that I totally agree that
disabled adults have every right to live in and receive the benefits of residential living as opposed to
institutions that is not why we're here tonight. I do feel, however, that there are concerns regarding the
proposed location at 8 Susan Place that will impact both the anticipated residents of the home and the
existing residents of the neighborhood. One of the issues is snow removal. As you know Susan Place is a
small four house dead end cul-de-sac that's understandably not a high priority as far as snow removal
especially in the last few winters that we've had. We know we've been snow bound for several, twelve
hours at a time. What kind of impact is this snow removal going to have on the shift workers that are going
to be coming and going around the clock? It is very difficult we have not been able to get out at times.
Obviously we're on a small neighborhood it's just not a priority we understand that. We're still concerned
about the volume of traffic and the associated safety situations created by these narrow roads on the cul-de-
sac. Your telling us that the traffic isn't an issue, but we have done some research and have talked with
people that have been around the group homes and we see a significant amount of traffic especially when
you put it in light of the fact that it's a dead end cul-de-sac it's not like its the main thoroughfare
neighborhood or something we're going to notice the traffic. Obviously there is a vehicle to transport the
people and that would be the same as in any of our homes so that's not the issue. But, two workers per shift
that's six vehicles that amounts to six vehicles in a twenty four hour period that doubles the amount of
traffic that's already on Susan Place now. There are five families coming together there are five unrelated
families, I'm assuming these people have visitors so there are going to five families of visitors that are
going to be coming in visiting the people.
Mr. Donohue-Pardon me, did you want me to answer these one at a time or wait till the end?
Ms. Thomas-No that's alright you can wait until I get done.
Mr. Donohue-I'm going to forget some of them, but that's alright.
Ms. Thomas-What about medical personal, you know physical occupational, speech therapist, they will be
coming to the home which again is increased traffic to the place. Then we have heard that we understand
there are state inspections that are done and that involves several vehicles at the home at once. Again, the
parking isn't there they are going to be parking on the road besides the traffic coming in and out. In the
winter it is a very narrow road cars parked on the road it is going to create a real hazard in trying to get
around the parked cars. We have done some surveys of the group homes in the neighborhood we've gone
around the clock to check and see the cars and we found anywhere between two and five vehicles at these
homes during the course of the day and some are parked along the road. In yesterdays paper a neighbor on
McCormack Drive was interviewed a Marion Russell, she said the resident group homes are excellent
neighbors. The only way one knows they are there is the vehicles that are associated with the home. I'm
sure all of in the neighborhood, we all agree that these residents will be excellent neighbors and we have no
doubt that the place is going to be kept up that isn't our concern. But, there is an issue of additional
vehicles that has to be considered on such a small neighborhood. Thank you.
Mr. Donohue-Let me try doing them one at a time. Do you want to start at the top for me.
Ms. Thomas-The two workers per shift and the six vehicles.
Mr. Donohue-There will be two workers per shift. What you are talking about is two cars. That's like if
somebody came home...
Ms Thomas-It's six cars.
Mr. Donohue-It's three different times of the day so it's not six cars at the same time.
Ms. Thomas-But, we don't come in and out quite that often.
Mr. Donohue-Your out here tonight for example so you did come out in and out twice today already.
Ms. Thomas-It's additional vehicles.
Mr. Donohue-I don't see it as a lot extra. I don't say a couple more won't, but I can't see it as any different
than the people that live there. How many cars did they have originally the people that lived there?
Ms. Thomas-Well there is five vehicles in that neighborhood now.
Mr. Donohue-I mean the people who lived in the house before?
Ms. Thomas-Two. So they had two vehicles going in and out.
Mr. Donohue-It's a problem from perception rather than anything else.
Ms. Thomas-Again, a lot of people if they don't know that neighborhood may agree with that to what is
your concern, but they are narrow roads you have to agree they are narrow roads.
Mr. Donohue-I understand your concern and we'll address that. We will make sure that we are concerned
about that. Go ahead to the next one.
Ms. Thomas-The families the visitors obviously they are going to have visitors.
Mr. Donohue-They probably don't have families.
Ms. Thomas-They don't have families?
Mr. Donohue-They probably don't so there will be very few visitors for them. Their family will essentially
be the people living at the house. If they have parents are elderly, what's the ages of the people here
roughly?
Unknown-Thirties and forties.
Mr. Donohue-Thirties and forties so their parents would be quite elderly. How many have parents do you
know?
Unknown - I think there is just one gentlemen that has family in the area.
Mr. Donohue-One of the problems is as our people at the institution as they get older, of course, is that their
parents who generally were older to start with as an average that is don't have parents and that's one of the
problems so we try to work through that. Okay, next item.
Ms. Thomas-Medical personal.
Mr. Donohue-The medical is not done there anymore than you would have for your children.
Ms. Thomas-We were informed that they did come to the house.
Mr. Donohue-That's the problem we get all this bad information. We will have a clinic during the day
program. We have medical doctors that will see people there on an emergency they will come to the house
like they would for yours, maybe they won't for you, but once in a while we get them to come to the house.
For the most part they will use the hospitals as we have for the last ten years anyway. We have no
hospitalization at the institution we use Saratoga and Glens Falls Hospital and have for years so it's just like
you have in your house.
Ms. Thomas-Visiting agencies and interest groups. Do you have people that go through just to see how....
Mr. Donohue-No, except me to make sure everybody is doing everything right. I periodically go through
and certainly anyone in the supervising house will check. Once a year the health department comes in and
checks it out, not the health department the certification unit at the DEC Health Department comes in.
They will check to make sure they are certifiable that is that they are doing things correctly.
Ms. Thomas-Just in the survey we did in a week we did notice five vehicles in front of one of the houses.
Mr. Donohue-I'm not sure which house your talking about.
Ms. Thomas-Let's see which one that was the one on Sweet Road.
Mr. Donohue-Would there be a reason for that?
Unknown-He is the Supervisor, I'll found out why we had that many... Any given time?
Ms. Thomas-Tuesday, at 4:30 p.rn., August 4th. Thursday at 4: 15 p.rn., August 5th.
Mr. Donohue-You just get a change of shift. You get two people coming and two people going that could
do it. I could see that it's a possibility because you have to have two people before they leave. That will
happen there is no way around that when you've got four people two coming and two going at one point
you have the four cars there, but it's only a few minutes believe me they don't want to stay forever.
Ms. Thomas-We were told again that there is monthly inspections that involve several vehicles that will be
coming to the place.
Mr. Donohue-I don't know what vehicles they are talking about so I really can't respond to that. There is no
inspection on a monthly basis outside of what we do ourselves. To make sure the house is correct that the
outside looks good and inside looks good, people are being treated right and all that kind of stuff. But,
that's no more than you would do that I do for my own daughters when I go visited their house. I see if
they need help if they need help we look at it and do it that way. I don't think there will be as much visitors
as people anticipate simply because there aren't people to visit them from that standpoint. We kind of hope
the neighborhood takes over and that's happened many times in a number of our neighborhoods where that
becomes a part of the neighborhood including block parties and that kind of stuff which we love to be part
of. I want to tell you that you really don't have any real concerns on that. If you will become part of the
advisory committee we will make sure.
Dan Paquin-My wife and I own property on Country Colony Drive we just bought. I guess its a direct
question to you, you can answer it when I asked it to you. One of the reasons your closing down the
facility and what not your getting the people back into the community?
Mr. Donohue-That's correct.
Mr. Paquin-So they can become part of the community. Wouldn't you think a house located in an area
where these people get some public transportation...
Mr. Donohue-If they could use it would be true, but these people can't. They are not capable of using
public transportation. The buses they will use will be handicap buses and made for their use.
Mr. Paquin-Everybody that would be in that house?
Mr. Donohue-All five people would have to have, you know.
Mr. Paquin-I know of other ones where the people do ride the buses.
Mr. Donohue-For those people that's correct you want to get them on public transportation routes we would
do that if we had that.
Mr. Paquin-The other thing that has been brought to my intention that once the state owns that property that
it can be used as a "similar facility".
Mr. Donohue-No, it can't be. Public Land Laws says if you want to change the nature of that home
sometime in the future it has to come back here to the Town for a hearing at that point the decision is made
what can be done. The Town can actually even buy the house if they want to at that point. It can never be
just transferred without going through a hearing without the Town being involved in it.
Mr. Paquin-Like what we're doing right now?
Mr. Donohue-No, your an information meeting. This hearing is a formal legal hearing.
Mr. Paquin-We were told this was a public hearing.
Attorney Dusek-Under the Mental Hygiene Law it is technically a public hearing.
Mr. Donohue-Tonight?
Attorney Dusek -Yeah. Dan what your thinking of is in terms of a hearing such a judicial type of hearing.
Mr. Donohue-Correct.
Attorney Dusek-And this not a judicial hearing by no means. But, it is called a public hearing in the sense
that we are here to hear from the public.
Councilman Caimano-But, the distinction from our standpoint, of course, is the fact that if we were to have
a hearing it pre-supposes that there would be a vote.
Mr. Donohue-That's correct.
Councilman Caimano-Or some kind of an I do and what Dan is trying to say that's not the case.
Mr. Donohue-Yeah.
Attorney Dusek-There will ultimately be a vote by the board as to whether, a non-vote. Basically you have
three courses of action you can take. You can take no action which is a possibility, of course, which means
then that Wilton would site the house where every they seem fit including 8 Susan Place. The second
option the board has is to take action and either approve the house or suggest one or more suitable sites
other than this house or object to the establishment of the facility based on over concentration.
Mr. Donohue-And need.
Attorney Dusek-And need. There is a series of steps that the board could take or not take.
Mr. Donohue-But, my understanding again was that this was an information meeting for the public so that
they would be aware of it that's my understanding because our letter is addressed to the board.
Mr. Paquin-So your telling me once if you do in fact purchase this property and use it for this group home
that's what it will always be that it will always be that.
Mr. Donohue-That's what it has to be used for. It has to be used as that and it has to come back to here if it
doesn't that's by law by the way.
Mr. Paquin-We formed a committee to locate other superior sites because we feel we pose some legitimate
traffic problems tonight. We formed this committee and we feel that we can locate some other superior
sites. If we do find a superior site how....
Mr. Donohue-You go right through the Town. The Town would offer them to us.
Mr. Paquin-Okay. At that point.
Mr. Donohue-There are restrictions to that. You have to be in the Town it has to be equal....
Mr. Paquin-We understand that. If we do come up with these superior sites...
Mr. Donohue-We would look at them we always do.
Mr. Paquin-You would look at them, okay. I guess that's about it.
Supervisor Champagne-However, Dan correct me if I'm wrong. We have forty days from the twenty
seventh of September which takes us to November 7th. As of November 7th, the dye is cast.
Mr. Donohue-That's correct if no action is taken.
Supervisor Champagne-So what this gentlemen is saying is you have to have some concurrence or approval
of a site between now and November 7th. My question back to you is that possible, feasible, whatever?
Mr. Donohue-I really don't know it depends on the site. If there is an available house that's available that
meets the criteria we would look at it that's all I can tell you.
Councilman Caimano- Y ou have some idea of how long it takes you.
Mr. Donohue-To look at the house?
Councilman Caimano- Yeah.
Mr. Donohue-We can do it a couple days, three days, five days, yeah we have the capabilities of doing that.
Attorney Dusek-Dan so the record is clear, too on this. My understanding is that the forty day time
limitation is for the time to respond. The process of looking at these other houses and things by the
department could actually extend beyond the forty days and it's only important that the Town respond
within the forty days.
Mr. Donohue-They have to respond then we have to respond back in fifteen days.
Attorney Dusek -Correct.
Mr. Donohue-The problem with that is, I must tell you in every single house there is always an issue. I
have I didn't read it off, but there are probably fifteen, twenty areas why the house doesn't fit it's like to
rural to urban.
Mr. Paquin-What would you consider to be to rural?
Mr. Donohue-We don't, I'mjust saying what people feel. The most common problem, I think is traffic.
People have this concept of buses running in and out and cars running in and out, I don't know where that
comes from, but that's the concept people have.
Mr. Paquin-Myself we have two year old daughter and my wife is expecting and that's why we bought on
Country Colony because there is no traffic. Basically you got no through traffic because of where its
located. If you have a facility where there is going to be the increase traffic and the people coming to visit
there will be visitors.
Mr. Donohue-Probably not, but that's okay. It's a house you keep thinking its an institution its a house.
Mr. Paquin-I understand that it's a house.
Mr. Donohue-Let me just say one good interesting thing. I have an eighty-six year old aunt that lives over
in Corinth and for about four years now I have been trying to get a community residence next to her house,
because the one thing about it is that people that work there are all trained in CPR and I always thought it
would be a great idea to have somebody as a neighbor in case there was an emergency you know is there 24
hours a day and can give you some help. That was my concept there and I think for both you and your wife
that would be helpful too. There are some positive things.
Mr. Paquin-Oh, yea, we are not saying there isn't but we feel we have sighted some legitimate safety
reasons with vehicles going in and out.
Mr. Donohue-Well, as any neighborhood could, sure, and we accept them and we will address them.
Mr. Paquin-That is all we are asking. Thanks.
Supervisor Champagne-Thank you. Anyone else?
Mrs. Gay Jarvis- My name is Gay Jarvis and I live at 6 Susan Place. I would just like to go on record and
say I am in support of the concerns brought forth here. I do have a few questions of my own, at this point.
My experience has been in public schools dealing with special ed. students, and I have witnessed an
unbelievable amount of support personnel teaching, helping, assisting, whatever, special ed students. Now,
they are younger than the residents that are going to be there, however, many of them are wheel chair
bound, many of them probably have similar IQ's and that kind of thing.
Mr. Donohue-Probably lower.
Mrs. Gay Jarvis-Around 40
Mr. Donohue-Probably lower.
Mrs. Gay Jarvis-That's lower, and I witnessed an unbelievable number of people that are needed to support,
my question is I cannot see how one or two people on a shift are going to help two possibly four wheelchair
bound people in and out of bed all the different things they need to do let alone get around the
neighborhood, swim in the pool, whatever their recreation will be, it is inconceivable to me that one or two
people could handle that.
Mr. Donohue-Right now there are twenty four people on a unit at the Developmental Center and three
people working. So, that's three at twenty four which is one to eight and we are going to move into the
houses and you will have five and two working so that's two to five which is like three times better staffing
than we have at the developmental center. So, that, that's plenty of staff to do what has to be done.
Everything hasn't as well know you do not do everything all at once, you organize it and it works well, that
is good staffing, that is not bad staffing.
Mrs. Gay Jarvis-I just.
Mr. Donohue-And highly trained staffing.
Ms. Gay Jarvis-Well, I can, I just find it absolutely inconceivable how those two people can take on that
responsibility. We have five handicap students that come in and out of my classroom in an inclusion plan.
They have alone three certified teachers, one full-time aid, one full-time nurse in the room, and twenty five
peer tutors that come in and out for the week that's for five children.
Mr. Donohue-That's why it costs so much, I can understand that. I used to teach school and I had twenty
four in one class all by myself.
Mrs. Jarvis-So do I and I have more. I see all this traffic in our schools, I'm sorry I just can't believe that
one or two people, they should be given hefty pay raises if they can handle all that, I want to say.
Mr. Donohue-See that, you've got somebody asking for money for you. The fact is we do have throughout
and really don't have any problem. This population is really no different than any other population. This is
a family situation your not talking about a public school where your trying to teach somebody. This is
somebody living in a house and it's what you do with children. If you have four small children you don't
have fifteen people running around taking care of four small children, but they are a handful and you learn
how to do it.
Mrs. Jarvis-Well quite frankly academics are not in the forefront with the students at my school who are
that handicapped. It's just getting them through the day actually social skills really not to yell, not to fUll,
not to slap somebody, say what you feel things like that just to get them through the day. Secondly, I do
really have a very serious concern about our children and the children in the neighborhood walking to the
buses. If you were to witness the kids going to the buses they start of anywhere from seven thirty and nine
o'clock in the morning walking through the neighborhoods to the buses, of course, noon time you have
kindergartners coming off and kindergartens going on and then at the end of the day. It's not like a whole
herd of kids walk out and it takes ten minutes to get to the bus. It's an hour and a half in the morning to get
all the different age levels and an hour and a half in the afternoon. My concern you say the shift changes at
8:00 p.m. smack dab when all our kids walk out.
Mr. Donohue-Actually the shift changes at six thirty, seven o'clock, what time does the shift change?
Mrs. Jarvis-I thought you said 8:00 a.m.
Unknown-The night shift leaves at 9:00 a.rn. The morning people would be leaving around 10:00 a.rn.
Mrs. Jarvis-I thought I heard you say around 8:00 a.rn.
Mr. Donohue-I mis-spoke, I was wrong. But, you know it's the same thing that you have now when cars
drive in. I drove in that neighborhood, I went to check the house out. I drove in and you have to be careful
our people have to be careful. If our people were to walk which they are not going to be doing a lot of
walking out there, but if they did we would make sure somebody was with them and taught them the
correct way to do it. Hopefully we won't be doing anything different than your doing. I'm sure you have
people visit you and you have to tell them about being careful in here and we will do the same thing.
Mrs. Jarvis-Also, I had a question about integrating the residents into the neighborhood. Our neighborhood
has no park, no sidewalks, no night lighting, no stores, no hairdressers, no place to walk too, how do you
propose to integrate these people into the neighborhood where do they go what do they do to get
integrated?
Mr. Donohue-I think the same way that your integrated. That is exactly our point. We try to integrate them
the same way you integrate your family there. I assume you talk to your neighbors hopefully we will talk
to you as neighbors. I assume if you have block parties everybody gets together, I don't know if you do, I
don't know what you do there. I don't know how to even answer the question the bottom line is we want to
be part of the neighborhood.
We'll be as much a part of the neighborhood as you let us be and hopefully go from there.
Mrs. Jarvis-That's my point. To tell you quite frankly, I didn't know half my neighbors until this came
about. We were saying of everything this was a good way to get to know each other.
Mr. Donohue-That's great. We did something right, right away.
Mrs. Jarvis-My point here is. It isn't like there is some place to walk, too, to do to rest to interact with each
other. I was very curious of how you were going to reach your goal of integration.
Mr. Donohue-One of the nice things, I happen to think Wilton is a very nice developmental center. It's a
lousy institution cause its a institution, but its a nice institution if you had to be in a institution, I don't know
if you've ever been there?
Mrs. Jarvis-No, I haven't.
Mr. Donohue-We used to have people afraid to walk in always afraid of people you hear all these wild
stories. One of the nice things we did was that we started a day care for our staff and for the children of our
staff. That day care happened to be put in at the farthest end of the building so everybody that comes to the
day care has to walk from the beginning of the building all the way through we're talking about six months
old up to six, seven years old. What's happen is these kids think nothing about handicap people. They've
been doing it for years there has never been any problem and the kids wander around through the building.
Everybody has assimilated to adjusting to each other it's a fabulous idea. Hopefully that's going to be part
of our history in the community.
Mrs. Jarvis-I don't see that as the problem here. I see integrating different ability levels to accept each other
socially or any of that stuff, I don't see that being the problem. I see the problem is the traffic...
Mr. Donohue-We're going to work on that.
Mrs. Jarvis-The safety of our children.
Mr. Donohue-I don't see that as a problem anymore than anybody else.
Mrs. Jarvis-And, I don't really see a lot of benefits as far as integrating these people into the community.
There is nothing there to do. What they do and what we do are not the same. In the winter time I go back
and I ride a snowmobile and I slide down a hill. I don't think somebody in wheelchair is able to do that.
That's what we do so you say their going to do what we do that's what we do.
Mr. Donohue-I didn't say that. I said they will try to do and do what you allow us to do.
Mrs. Jarvis-If you had some pictures of what that place is like in the winter time not only is the snow
removal a problem because we're not high priority because there is only a few of us on that road so we do
get stranded for quite a while. We have two children that are asthmatic and we already have a plan how
we're going to get them to the hospital if we have too, believe me it's not by vehicle because we're low
priority and rightfully so there is only a few of us. The narrowest on the road the children walking to the
buses there is no sidewalks, no shoulders, it is very narrow, very hazardous. Oh, I know what I was going
to say. The residents are going to be virtually house bound for six months out of the year unless they get in
their van and go somewhere. I don't think going to the mall or going wherever they do to enjoy themselves
is integrating them into the neighborhood.
Mr. Donohue-The other option is leaving them in the institution, I don't want to do that.
Mrs. Jarvis-I don't believe that's another option. I believe there are better options than Susan Place.
Mr. Donohue-I accept that.
Mrs. Jarvis-Thank you.
Supervisor Champagne-Anyone else?
Joan Metraw-4 Susan Place. I just like to state that I am completely in agreement with the concerns stated
tonight. I also have letters from neighbors that could not attend the meeting and I'd like the clerk to read
them into the minutes for tonight is that possible?
Supervisor Champagne-Sure.
Deputy Town Clerk O'Brien-Read the following letters into the record.
October 17, 1994
To Whom It May Concern: I agree with the opinions voiced by my husband and neighbors regarding their
opposition to locating a State run facility at 8 Susan Place, Queensbury. Sincerely, Susan Fake
Fred Champagne, Supervisor Town of Queensbury
Bay Road
Queensbury, NY 12804
I, Christian M. Thomas, residing at 5 Susan Place, do agree with the concerns of my
neighborhood. I am concerned about the traffic changing the peaceful nature of the neighborhood. There
are many small children that play with no threat of traffic in our neighborhood, and this would change all of
that. Sincerely, Christian M. Thomas
October 17, 1994
To Whom It May Concern:
We are writing this letter to voice our concerns about the proposed group home at 8 Susan Place.
We feel this will have a definite impact on the neighborhood because it is such a small
community. The streets are very narrow and hard for larger vehicles to negotiate. The children have to
walk on the streets, as there are no sidewalks, to Bay Rd. to catch their school busses. The extra traffic
caused by this home could be a real problem.
It is our understanding that once the State buys this property there is no guarantee it will always be
used as proposed now. We are very concerned about the States option to use this house as a drug or
alcohol rehab, or for psychiatric patients. This is a community of young families and retirees and we these
options very disturbing.
Lastly, we really feel the State already has a better choice, all around, in the property on Luzerne
Rd. From the outside it looks ideal for everyone's needs.
Thank you for listening.
Linda and Clayton Bartlett
Country Colony Drive
October 17, 1994
Town of Queensbury
Bay Road
Queensbury, NY 12804
This letter is to show my support of my neighborhood in the apion that a state run group home is
not appropriate for this neighborhood.
Due to the narrow roads, cul-de-sac and no sidewalks I feel the safety of my children would be in
danger due to the fact that they have to walk out from Tee Drive to Country Colony to Bay Road to get the
bus and walk home.
If the neighborhood would be more safe oriented from the traffic it might be appropriate, but this
time the safety of my children takes precedence over any state run facility.
Thank you for your time.
Maureen Whiting
RR 5 Box 55
Queensbury, NY 12804
793-7322
Victor & Marilyn Kallit
Box 54 Country Colony Road RR5
Queensbury, Ny 12804
October 17, 1994
Town of Queensbury
531 Bay Road
Queensbury, NY 12804
ATTN: Supervisor, Town of Queensbury
Dear Mr. Champagne:
We are writing to voice our concerns regarding a State run facility proposed for 8 Susan Place
which is located off Country Colony Road. We believe that this location is unsuitable for the purpose
intended because it will create detrimental traffic conditions on a small neighborhood which has narrow
streets and limited access. Our neighborhood children walk these narrow streets frequently to meet school
buses on Bay Road and adults use them same country lanes for walking, jogging, etc.
We are greatly concerned that any additional traffic created by the usual transportation and
services required by a State run facility will make our streets extremely busy for an enclosed neighborhood
the size of ours thereby creating dangerous conditions. This additional traffic will overwhelm the
neighborhood and detract from the quiet peacefulness which we found when we settle here. We believe
there are better locations with more favorable traffic patterns and easier access within the Town than 8
Susan Place. Please make the State aware of our concerns.
Very truly yours,
Victor Kallit
Marilyn Kallit
October 17, 1994
Queensbury Town Board
Queensbury Town Offices
bay Road
Queensbury, NY 12804
Dear Board Members:
I would like to express to you my concern regarding the purchase of a home on Susan Place by the State of
New York. The single family residence is one being considered as a resident home for clients from the
Wilton Development Center.
I feel the impact on our small development, especially the increase in traffic would be substantial.
Children, including mine play are always playing in the street, there are no sidewalks, but the traffic that
does come into the development is resident traffic and they are aware of those "hazards". It is my belief
that additional traffic will kill this small neighborhood.
Additionally, we have no street lights and we are not a priority for the snow plow, making access to and
from our street extremely difficult.
Weare in such a remote area of Queensbury that in order to go anywhere one must drive. There is no bus
service to our area, there are no stores within walking distance, we have no sidewalks on Bay Road, clearly
we are not in a very convenient area.
Thank you,
Lilian F. LaPrairie
RD5 Box 42
Country Colony Road
Queensbury, NY 12804
Fred Champagne Supervisor
Town of Queensbury
Re: Proposed State Facility
8 Susan Place
Due to a prior commitment tonight, I could not attend the public hearing. I strongly support the
concerns and safety reasons brought fourth by the neighborhood this evening.
Kelly L. Paquin
Property owner Country Colony Dr.
Karen and Frank Nassivera, Country Colony-I don't have any questions for you, I just have a concern. We
fully support the neighborhood concerns. My husband and I were new to the neighborhood since last
December. We looked long and hard for a home and we love the peacefulness at Country Colony. It is a
wonderful neighborhood, very quiet, very peaceful. Although you said you would address the traffic
concerns, I just want to go back to this article that was in the paper they have vehicles going in and out. At
the current time the neighborhood is very quiet and we just love it there and we don't want the traffic that's
involved. I support facilities homes absolutely, but I don't want the traffic that is involved. Thank you.
Frank Nassivera-Another problem also with the winters there with the snow plow it's bad enough a lot of
times you have to push the neighbor off the road because there just is no way to get back and they're stuck.
I don't know, I just agree with what was said tonight. Thank you.
Supervisor Champagne-Thank you.
Tom Fake-Country Colony-I just want to make a statement mostly than ask any questions. It's painful for
me to say these things, but my brother was in a group home and he passed away in one a short time ago. It
was in a similar area as our neighborhood and they always had the feeling of being isolated because they
didn't assimilate into the neighborhood because there were no services, no sidewalks and there was always
plenty of traffic with people visiting. I saw that there and I hate to see the neighborhood endure more
traffic that's going to be created. It's just a big concern of mine. My house is for sale and I still love the
neighborhood enough just to voice my opinion. The access on the road is tough it's kind of funny because I
found out just trying to wheel my two year old son up and down the street, well a year old just in a stroller
it was tough. No sidewalks, sometimes around a blind turn the traffic is moving we had a couple close
calls just being on that road. It was a shame and I've been there almost fifteen years and I've seen an
increase amount of traffic way and beyond of what I had when I first moved in there that was just by the
added addition offour homes. It more than quadrupled to the point now me personally, I don't feel the road
can handle any more traffic because it just isn't wide enough. In the winter it is a real real problem. I work
in Latham, I have to leave my house at six thirty in the morning and I wrote down on the calendar there was
fifteen times last year I just didn't make it to work cause I couldn't get out of my driveway. I can't blame
the Town or anything because it shouldn't be a high priority because there are so few of us there. There are
many more places that they have to focus on, but that's my concern. Thanks.
Supervisor Champagne-Anyone else care to speak?
Charles DeMars-I used to live in Country Colony so I'm well acquainted with the area. I owned a house
there and I sold it and I now live in an area called Big Boom Road cross from Arberger Drive, I believe you
have a house there. So, what I want to tell these people tonight is all negatives about what Mr. Donohue is
trying to sell you. But, it's typical of any state agency that's the way they run things. The trips would
quadruple anything that he says quadruple it. We monitored them, we've taken pictures of a house in action
across the road from my house. My property has devalued itself by twenty percent. I've had assessments
come up from Albany that know about State homes. I can only say one thing to these people you have to
remember who your ward person was when the best time comes we will in our particular area. They
installed central cooling I haven't got central cooling in my house. But, the house that they purchased was a
brand new house built by a builder marketable probably in the hundred twenty to hundred and twenty nine
thousand dollar home not knowing what the state paid probably a hundred and fifty. They have put a
blacktop driveway in. They've taken and reconstructed a chinmey three times this is a chinmey a basic
chinmey a masonry chinmey three times. They've done other little cosmetic things to make the house look
a little better, I can commend them on certain things. But, I'm here to talk about all the negatives because
that's what it's going to have. It's a negative impact on your area don't believe Mr. Donohue. He is a super
salesman he comes from the State and that's what your going to get super saleable people. Thank you.
Supervisor Champagne-Anyone else care to speak?
Richard Dallek-I have one vacant lot on Susan Place rather close to the building that your proposing to use
for the State facility. Two other members of my family have two other lots. I have to object to this facility
being there because number one the arguments regarding traffic, children in danger seem to be quite valid, I
think that's pretty apparent to everybody. Number two, this is really not the type of neighborhood for that
sort of thing. It is very small it was not intended to be a high traffic area not intended to have any
commercial deliveries appreciable. I would say that the character of the neighborhood is going to change
considerable if that facility is there. We don't know who we would be able to sell to that facility there.
Actually another problem since this is a State facility they would undoubtedly retain ownership of the land
for the foreseeable future and knowing New York State Government, I would say that at some indefinite
time in the future they could quite possibly decide that they should make other use of the land. We all
know about halfway houses for ex-convicts, we also know about drug treatment facilities. No one here can
guarantee me that anything like that won't move in and that's about all I have to say on the subject.
Supervisor Champagne-I believe this gentlemen came a few minutes late.
Councilman Caimano- Y ou may want to answer that because he wasn't here.
Supervisor Champagne-But, you might want to just respond to that last concern about...
Mr. Dallek-Would you address that?
Mr. Donohue-Sure. The bottom line is that you can't convert it to anything other than what it is which is a
home for the mentally retarded.
Mr. Dallek-Who says that?
Mr. Donohue-Public Land Law says that.
Mr. Dallek-I see.
Mr. Donohue-That's the law. It has to come back to the Town before it can be used for anything else your
inaccurate in that, so.
Mr. Dallek-Who backs up this Public Land Law?
Mr. Donohue-New York State it's the law. It's like the Traffic Law it's a law. The answer is the Courts
back it up.
Mr. Dallek-Laws are quite subject to change at the Legislatures whirn.
Mr. Donohue-Sure. You can say that about any in the world and that's a valid point.
Mr. Dallek-I don't really think that New York State is going to give us a guarantee for the future. May, I
ask your name, I'm afraid I didn't catch...
Mr. Donohue-I'm Dan Donohue.
Mr. Dallek-Okay, nice to meet you.
Supervisor Champagne-Anyone else care to speak?
Councilman Monahan- I have a question Fred if I may just at this moment. We talk about a public hearing
as protection for the use of that house changing in the future. A public hearing is a public hearing. The
public hearing can be held and as far as I can see at the end of the public hearing the use of that house could
change.
Mr. Donohue-No. Do you have a copy of the law? We have it somewhere. Do you have it with you?
Councilman Monahan-I mean what does a public hearing actually accomplish except having a public
hearing?
Mr. Donohue-That's just one part of it you would have to read the dam thing. Such lands become
unappropriated State lands and prior to be transferred to judicial of another State Agency shall be offer for
sale a public auction pursuant to Section 33 of this article. Provided, however, that the provision of Section
406, Eminent Domain real property, this is the law you would have to read the whole thing. What it
essentially means is that nobody can just come in in the middle of the night and transfer that property and
say that some other agency can use it that's what the law suppose....
Councilman Monahan-But, it also doesn't say some other agency can't use it after you've through all the
stuff that you need to.
Mr. Donohue-If you go to public auction it has to go to public auction. If somebody else buys it that's right.
Unknown-The State can.
Mr. Donohue-You would have to buy it. The bottom line is it's up for sale that's what your saying. Just
like your house is up for sale when you put it up for sale it's identical.
Mr. DeMars-Betty you might have to be concerned because what the State is planning is to privatize. Once
this thing happens they are all going to be tax exempt, but they will be thinking in terms of privatizing
certain aspects of these homes.
Mr. Donohue-That's something new to me.
Councilman Monahan-I just have a problem. I don't like to leave the thought in anyone's mind out there
that a public hearing is any great protection for you. Yes, it has to go to public hearing. Yes, it has to go to
public auction, but you have no guarantee about who is going to bid that in or who is not going to bid that
in. I just kind of didn't like that being slide over like that.
Mr. Donohue-This wasn't slide over. What this says is that it doesn't go to another State Agency it goes to
the public for auction not to the State Agency.
Unknown-Another State Agency could purchase it.
Mr. Donohue-State Agency can purchase it they own it.
Councilman Monahan-Another State Agency where is there anything in this that says another State Agency
couldn't purchase it?
Mr. Donohue-Couldn't purchase it.
Councilman Monahan-Why not?
Mr. Donohue-Because the State owns it.
Councilman Monahan-Your department owns it.
Mr. Donohue-Actually we really don't, but the State owns it.
Unknown-But, the State could just could give it to another State Agency.
Mr. Donohue-No they can't. They have to go to a public auction for the property before it can done. In
other words it can't be just transferred over.
Unknown-If someone from the public doesn't buy it?
Mr. Donohue-Pardon me?
Unknown-If someone from the public doesn't buy it?
Mr. Donohue-If the somebody from the public doesn't buy it. It's like any other house in the world it's
available to anybody. So is your house what's the difference if the house is up for sale.
Unknown-My question is if your State Agency gets assimilated into another one which can happen,
budgets cuts in other words the mental health part comes in....
Mr. Donohue-The law applies to both.
Unknown-Then this house could change without a public hearing.
Mr. Donohue-No, it can't.
Unknown-Because it's still under the same public agency.
Mr. Donohue-The bottom line is it's under Mental Hygiene now which is both mental health and mentally
retarded which still falls under this law.
Unknown-Now we have a whole other thing that the house could be used for from what we talked about.
Mr. Donohue-No, it can't that's what I'm trying to tell you.
Unknown-Explain to me then exactly what is this house being purchased for?
Mr. Donohue-For the mentally retarded for the developmentally disabled.
Unknown-Your agency is part of what?
Mr. Donohue-The Umbrella Agency is Mental Hygiene. But, that's a Mental Hygiene Law that it falls
under. That includes mental retardation, mental illness, substance abuse, what's it called alcohol and
substance abuse. They are not the same agency they are all separate.
Councilman Monahan-Mr. Donohue, please explain this statement.
Supervisor Champagne-We're going to have to move this right along, too.
Councilman Monahan-But, I think this is important to the people Fred.
Supervisor Champagne-Okay.
Councilman Monahan-Not withstanding any other provision of this chapter or other statue. The
Commissioner of General Services upon application of any State Department or Division Bureau Agency
thereof, or upon application, wait a minute am I repeating myself?
Mr. Donohue-That's right.
Councilman Monahan-May transfer to such State Department Division Bureau Agency the lands, etc. and
jurisdiction.
Mr. Donohue-You have to go on that's what it says that's the point except then you get to this.
Councilman Caimano-That's get down to brass tacks. What's our drop dead date, Paul?
Attorney Dusek-The date, I think that we calculated was early November. I think I'd advise to stay the
third or the fourth to be safe.
Councilman Caimano- The third of November we have to have filed if we're going to have file an objection
by the third of November?
Attorney Dusek-That's correct.
Councilman Caimano-Ifyou think and we've been through this since the very first one five years ago if you
think you've got a case you've got to get it to us. We don't have a lot of lee-way we certainly have no time
lee-way. But, if you have a legitimate case you got to get it to us. What's particularly going to me is the
same argument I had five years ago. Regardless of the goodness of an act and this is a good act the
absolute arrogance and temerity of a government to come anywhere they want and push people around
that's what bothers me. This is a good act, I have a close friend of mine whose son is in a group home and
it's wonderful for hirn. I just have a problem with the way it's done a serious problem. You got to help us
we can't help you unless you help us. I got to tell you from my standpoint the traffic issue you presented so
far isn't a good one. I could of asked Karen and Frank when you moved in did anybody come to you and
say how many cars do you have and we don't like the traffic that your bringing in the answer would
probably be no. It's got to be a danger and you've got to prove that danger.
Mr. Jarvis-We go to the lady in the newspaper who lives two doors away who says, you wouldn't know
they were there if it wasn't for other vehicles going in and out.
Councilman Caimano- Then that's what you've got to bring. You got to bring the danger aspect up. They
came to us with a home on the corner if you know it Mountain View Lane and West Mountain Road.
Clearly a danger they were going to build a home there clearly a danger area and they listened and they
changed. You've got to prove your point and that's all I'm asking you to do. Bring anything you can to
prove your point and bring it to us.
Unknown-What danger are you speaking of? I don't understand your...
Councilman Caimano-Did you ever drive on West Mountain where it turns into Mountain View Lane and
West Mountain makes a right angle turn?
Mr. Dallek-I've been there maybe twice.
Councilman Caimano- They were going to build on that corner clear danger to everyone not just the people
that were going to move there those of you who know that area explain it to them. If in fact it's true we
need to have that kind of evidence otherwise on November 4th, we've got to sign, I do. We don't have any
choice we're not given the choice, now we go back to what bothers me about the whole process.
Mr. Jarvis-We're giving you the fact that our roads are seven feet narrower than Tee Hill Road and it's the
same speed limit. We have our children walking all the way to the corner of Bay Road in the middle of the
road to get to the bus.
Councilman Caimano- That doesn't mean that this particular home is going to cause any worse problem than
anybody moving in with three teenagers.
Mr. Jarvis-Extra traffic is going to cause it.
Councilman Caimano-So will a husband and wife and three teenagers who all have cars. We've got to
show that there is a real and present danger because of this situation not because of cars moving in the
house is vacant. The house is vacant someone is going to move into it that someone may have a truck.
They could be like my boss who likes horses and have a horse van and a horse. We can't go on that we got
to have something that shows a clear and present danger if that's going to be your case. If that's not your
case you got to bring us something that is your case. Something where it is not negative against handicap
people, but rather a positive towards your neighborhood.
Councilman Pulver-Your children are still going to have to walk along that road whether someone lives in
that house or not.
Mr. Jarvis-That's correct. But, that someone who lives in that house is not going to create that kind of
traffic.
Councilman Caimano-Dave, but you can't say that.
Councilman Pulver-There giving you an opportunity to control somewhat what is going on with that house.
Where if I moved in with three teenagers and a horse trailer and a boat and whatever you would never be
able to control what I was doing. In fact we may be in court all the time arguing over my comings and
going's and my UPS deliveries and whatever else I'm having see, I probably would create a bigger danger
for you.
Mrs. Jarvis-We have deed covenants against that.
Councilman Caimano-Use it.
Mrs. Jarvis-We have deed covenants against horse trailers and so many vehicles.
Councilman Pulver-Are they enforceable?
Mrs. Jarvis-They were drawn up legally and filed with the Town when we moved in that's why we had
them made up.
Councilman Pulver-But, don't they have to be filed with the Attorney Generals Office?
Attorney Dusek -You could have deed covenants on file with the County Clerks Office which would be
valid. I presume that's what they are talking about.
Mrs. Jarvis-Before we bought the property we did not want business it's zoned for.... single family. We
didn't want somebody with a motorcycle shop in their garage. We didn't want multi-family dwellings. We
wanted single family houses tiny little neighborhood. We got together with Alice Dallas who owned our
property at the time and her husband legally drew up what we call a deed covenant had it filed with the
Town of Queensbury, had our legal representatives we have that covenant.
Councilman Pulver-What I'm asking Paul it has to be on their deed filed with Warren County?
Attorney Dusek-It would either show up in the deeds or it could show up as a separate document called a
Deed of Covenants and Restrictions or Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions. I doubt it was filed with
the Town of Queensbury. It would probably have been filed with Warren County.
Councilman Pulver-You may want to research that, too.
Mrs. Jarvis-....the legal channels to protect us from a lot of traffic.
Councilman Monahan-Mr. Donohue I have just one or two comments. One I know that the neighborhood is
concerned about, if this does become a group home your going to want a lot of lights around it maybe street
lights and you know they do cherish they are out in the country field where there is no light pollution type
of thing.
Mr. Donohue-That's not a problem for us.
Councilman Monahan-The only thing I'm going to ask you as a taxpayer why does the State keep buying
these homes with pools? Are you going to use that pool as a pool or are you going to have to fill it in?
Mr. Donohue-We will probably use it as a pool. But, the fact is we buy a home with a pool because it has a
pool there and that's the only reason why we don't look for pools.
Councilman Monahan-I've seen some of these that you bought and you told us before your going to have to
fill them in.
Mr. Donohue-We haven't filled any in that I know of.
Councilman Monahan-There was one you were looking at over in the McCormack area that you said if you
bought that you were going to fill it in. I will point out that this will be the third home within quite a small
radius of Queensbury.
Mr. Donohue-Yeah, I think the fourth in Queensbury.
Councilman Monahan-Within this particular area you've got Sweet Road, McCormack Drive, Susan Place.
Queensbury is a seventy two square mile place and you've place three of them within a fairly close area.
My other concern and I know this is probably true down in Arberger Drive you are not on Town water
there and you'll be on a septic tank also. I don't know what the abilities are of the people coming in I'm just
wondering will they use an unusual amount of septic capacity for washing and things like that?
Mr. Donohue-The house is evaluated to make sure the septic system is big enough.
Councilman Caimano-Finding another place is really the most important aspect of the whole thing and we
don't have a lot of time.
Supervisor Champagne-No question about that. Okay, I'll close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
PUBLIC HEARING
NOTICE SHOWN
8:50 P.M.
AMENDING ZONING ORDINANCE TO CHANGE DESIGNATION OF PROPERTY OWNED BY
RICHARD SCHERMERHORN
Supervisor Champagne-I'd like to open the public hearing. I believe this one is a public hearing on
Amending Zoning Ordinance to change designation of property owned by Richard Schermerhorn, let's do
that. Come right up and explain what we're doing and then we will hear from the public.
Rich Schermerhorn-My name is Rich Schermerhorn and I've been here before. Basically what we're
proposing to do is put five residential lots four on Meadowbrook, one on Cronin. The current zoning is
SFRIA and the reason for the zone change is because both of those roads are arterial and collector roads
which would allow one lot on, I believe close to six acres. Anyhow, I'm just proposing the five residential
lots which means the rezone to a SRI Acre for residential houses.
Supervisor Champagne-Is there anyone here that cares to speak for or against this proposal?
Ted Turner-My name is Ted Turner, I live across from the propose project which would be the last house
site mark next to Mrs. West property. First of all, this is a high water table area water lies
on the surface usually for weeks at a time during many of the spring rains and many of the heavy summer
rains. Any of the neighbors that have cellars there have water in their cellars and plenty of it. These are
proposed to be on slab that's fine, but the other concern and you've got a concern from one of the neighbors
down the road Mr. Oudekerk is the water table in that whole area where it flooded his house and almost
isolated him from getting out of the house. Also, water from development upstream is causing flooding of
the areas along Quaker Road, Meadowbrook Road, and Haviland Road. I asked him tonight out there how
much fill he was going to bring in and he said he wasn't going to bring in any. The land is in the City
School District which does not provide any transportation to the City School from that area at all you have
to walk and there is no crossing guard at Quaker Road. There is proposed ninety one units on the Bay
Meadows Golf Course. I'm not against the development of the land I would like to see it restricted to two
units on Meadowbrook Road and one on Cronin Road because of the problems with the property and the
property in the whole area. All the properties have severe development problems in that area Regency Park
even gets water in their basement apartments, that's my concern.
Supervisor Champagne-Thank you, Ted. Anyone else?
Jane Potter-My name is Jane Potter, I also live on Meadowbrook Road across from this project, but in the
middle of the other one. We were here several other board meetings and we have said that we would agree
to a variance for approximately three houses like Mr. Turner said, two on Meadowbrook and one on
Cronin. This absorbs the cost of the land gives them a profit, he has it proposed on there to be all on
Meadowbrook. The reason he wants the rezoning on this instead of going with the variance is because the
future development would be able to also build multi-family homes which in the long run is his, I believe
his intention because he originally going to be multifamily this project. I also believe that he knows he is
going to get your approval because he has already put up some construction signs, I've already been
resurveyed as some other lots on the street. When I moved on this property six years ago the Town of
Queensbury had just rezoned the whole area. I thought that I was safe that what it was when I moved there
is what it would be for at least a reasonable length of time a lot longer than six years. This has been going
on with this project for over a year at least so I had five years. I don't know why this project can't go with
the variance, why it has to be rezoned. If we're in agreement with three houses when its only zoned for one
I think that's a fair exchange, why it has to be stretched out to five, I don't know. But, I would still agree to
three houses with a variance. I would really like you to consider not rezoning because rezoning opens to
many doors down the line. I have been told the other eight acres will be developed and that's where the
apartments would come from. We can't use more apartments in our area from what I've been told over to
Regency there is forty percent vacancies. We don't need more apartments we really don't need more
houses. There are a lot of houses on the market now that people can't sell, but that's besides the point. I
would like you to not rezone this property. I would like you to consider going back with the variance idea
and with three houses. I guess the only thing I can say is that my understanding and I'm not up on all of
these rules this is considered spot zoning it is just for one particular area it is not a whole large parcel. My
understanding was that spot zoning is not even legally. I would like it to be looked at as a spot zoning idea.
Also, I like you to consider the fact that this can happen to you. Wherever you live now can be changed
overnight by one person and you may lose your control of your neighborhood. When I moved there six
years ago I bought a house that... was overgrown it was falling apart. I've spent six years and a lot of money
to put down roots there and fix it up and I believe that I have improved that neighborhood considerably.
Councilman Caimano-Jane where are you on Meadowbrook you said?
Mrs. Potter-Yes, across the street from this.
Councilman Caimano-Across from Dick McDonald or across from those four lots?
Mrs. Potter-I guess you'd say the lots cause there is a vacant lot on the corner and then I'm the next one.
Councilman Caimano- Thanks.
Mrs. Potter-Thank you for the time.
Supervisor Champagne-Thank you.
Jim Piper-My name is Jim Piper, I live on Meadowbrook Road right across from the propose site. My
place would be right across from the fifty foot or seventy feet green way that leads into the green way in the
back. Like I've said in several meetings before my wife and I are not opposed to single family residences
being put up in this area. My major concern is that if the Board decides to do a rezoning that it opens up to
the multi-family dwelling type thing, the apartment type thing. If the Board did decide to do a rezoning the
question I would have is can the Board issue a rezoning and also issue restrictions on that at the same time
so as, okay we're going to rezone it to this, but for only this purpose?
Councilman Caimano- Yes.
Mr. Piper-So that if Richie for some reason decides he is not going to build single family homes that the
zoning that it would protect against the multi-family aspect of it. That is basically my concern because in
that area there we don't need anymore apartments. You've got Regency Park on the corner, Richie put a
nice apartment complex just north of my property line, but yet I don't think there is a need for anymore
apartments. I realize the sewer line runs down through there so you try to get your density and you try to
make use of your sewer. But, I think that can be very well done with single family homes on that piece of
property without going to multi-family. Thank you.
Jenny Sellek Lortz-I and my husband live on the property that is right beside the easement way. I would
like to say that my main concern about this is that if that area is rezoned it does open up the possibility for
greater denser housing. Mr. Schermerhorn does a fine job of building. My family has been in the building
business since my great-grandfather and I think the man does a good job. I know that anything he builds in
there is going to look good and be a asset to our street, our community but the density has already become
quite thick. The traffic from the apartments that are down the street from us now many people drive very
fast and I would hate to see that increase. I'd be very happy to see some nice fine single family homes in
there. I would be very disturb to see denser housing or multi-family units go in to that very tight row area.
Thank you.
Supervisor Champagne-Anyone else?
Mr. Schermerhorn-I appreciate everybody's concerns and I believe I've addressed most of these concerns at
past meetings. My intentions were originally to do the multi-family I had a lot of strong feelings about that.
I thought we more less agreed upon the residential and to keep it at a reasonable number which we honestly
believed was five residential lots. Like I've said to the few of the other people I am willing to put even in a
deed restriction when I purchase this land that it cannot be developed for any multi-family strictly single
family. Also, Mrs. Sellek's piece and the person to the north of her where the fifty foot buffer is if the
Town does not have interest where I shaded it in green I'd be willing to deed that over to these people so
that they don't have to worry about any clearing through there. Mr. Turner was concerned about seeing the
land before open up across the street from him, I can respect that. I'm willing leave maybe a twenty foot
buffer zone across the front and only have a cutting where the driveways go in so that will leave it fairly
wooded across the front. The driveway that encroaches on one of my lots which is next to Mrs. Sellek's I'm
willing to leave a buffer zone there as well or deed what's necessary so that we don't have encroachment
problems later.
Executive Director Mr. Martin-Pardon me, where again is Mrs. Sellek?
Mr. Turner-Mrs. West.
Mr. Schermerhorn-Mrs. West, I'm sorry. I also am willing to if we leave this proposed layout is to leave
buffer zones behind all these people where there will be clear cutting restrictions. It will be buffered from
all angles it won't really have any adverse affects on thern. As far as Mr. Turner's drainage or the question
of the water problem I'm not putting basements in so that's not putting ground pressure of any sort on the
land. The topo of the land, if you look at the topo back towards the brook there is I believe a two foot
deferential there so any runoff is going to go back towards the brook and not towards the road. But, other
than that like I said I'll put deed restrictions in we'll keep it at single families. It's still I realize if this gets
rezoned it's under site plan for the subdivision approval. I'm willing to work with everybody, but I do feel
that five lots is more than fair. I don't think that I'm asking for too much cause we do have the sewer,
water, and gas so the utilities are there.
Councilman Caimano-Didn't you go for a variance at one time?
Mr. Schermerhorn-Yes we did.
Councilman Caimano- What was the variance for?
Councilman Pulver-It was for lot widths wasn't it?
Mr. Schermerhorn-I think it was for lot widths.
Councilman Caimano- There is a proposal that you go back for variance if we don't know what it was the
first time how are we going to even suggest you go back the second time. You must know what it was
about you went.
Leon Steves-For the record my name is Leon Steves. Also, for the record the density is not being proposed
to be increase here. It is not spot zoning either because the adjacent zone is SRI acre and all we're doing is
expanding that adjacent zone.
Councilman Caimano-For some of us there is a problem of the fact that we're going through a Master Plan
change right now and should we muddy the waters or should we just leave things alone until that change.
That some of us meaning me so that's why I'm asking what is the variance about?
Councilman Pulver-I think it was lot widths.
Mr. Schermerhorn-I think it was lot width because it was the arterial collectors road. You had to have
twice the lot width...allow one lot on six acres.
Supervisor Champagne-Isn't that right Jim that's why we had to end up with those single driveway cuts for
two lots it was frontage.
Councilman Caimano- What kind of houses are you proposing to build duplexes or single family?
Mr. Schermerhorn-Not duplexes because I said no multi-family. Just single family residential probably
what's in character with the neighborhood now. There are capes and ranches that's not to say that a small
colonial may not go there it's what the customer wants. But, I would say they are not going to be large
homes because you cannot have basements, well I suppose you could, but the people that have them have
the water problem because of the water table. These will be strictly limited to just slabs which means they
are not going to be high priced homes, but they are not going to be, I don't want to say real inexpensive
they are going to be what's in character of the neighborhood.
Councilman Caimano- Y ou mentioned the density is not changing actually he is allowed six single family
residences in there.
Mrs. Sellek-Ijust don't want it to be multi-family homes.
Councilman Caimano- I understand.
Mrs. Sellek-I'm afraid it would open it up for the opportunity for that to take place.
Councilman Pulver-Not if it's restricted.
Mr. Schermerhorn-Like I said, I'd clearly state that I'll put that in a deed restriction that this cannot be
developed for multi-family even if I was to sell the land. Once that, I believe once it is a deed restriction
that can't be changed.
Councilman Caimano- Yes, madam?
Councilman Monahan-If this is done it actually needs to be four restrictions. This area needs to be
restricted so that there cannot be any building. It needs to be restricted to single family homes, can we
restrict to just on slabs? Paul is that legal so we don't keep this drainage problem, cellar problem like we've
got in Queensbury Forest?
Mr. Schermerhorn-I'm willing to agree to it just slabs....
Councilman Caimano- Y our willing to agree with it, but you could turn around and sell the land.
Mr. Schermerhorn-Not if it's a deed restriction.
Councilman Caimano- That's what we're saying it's got to go with the land.
Councilman Monahan-Can we do that?
Attorney Dusek-Yes.
Councilman Monahan-The other thing is in order to make this fly they have to agree that these driveways
are adjoining because that's the only way you can meet the multiple width that you are required on arterial
roads. The one reason to go to SR rather than SFR is it permits this type of clustering thing to come in that
you can't do in the other, and make a better layout without the impact.
Maybe those people as the neighbors would you like to go up and see this plan, here?
Councilman Caimano-Come take a look. Well, go down there and show it to them.
Councilman Monahan-I think what I'm asking right now of the neighbors you've seen the plan and said
here is the restrictions that would have to go into this if it's rezoned. Don't forget right now he has a right to
six single family houses there. He would agree to be restricted to no more than five single family homes.
The green area would be deed restricted so that there is no building on that area. They would have to be on
slabs no cellars and the driveways have to be shared driveways. They are not really shared because people
own them, but shared access point. Did I get all the restrictions, I think so. I guess now I'd like to give the
neighbors a change just to see.....
Councilman Caimano-Before you do that Rich should go through the other things that he agreed to a few
minutes ago. The buffers and all that kind of stuff that you talked about.
Councilman Monahan-Maybe he needs to point that out on the map or draw them in or something so we
have something to go by.
Mr. Schermerhorn-If these were my residences these three people West, Kruger,....! believe my concern
would be any clearing behind or along side. The one that seems to be in most jeopardy is Mrs. West
because her driveway is right on the property line. I could propose this in a deed restriction or however the
Town Attorney would like it, but will leave a buffer zone along the side. I can leave twenty or thirty foot
buffer zone along the rear, but all this green area actually I think the easiest thing to do is just say that none
of this is going to be clear absolutely no clearing in the green area. The only one we would have to worry
about then is Mrs. West and give her a buffer zone along the side and that would take care of everybody
else unless anybody else has any suggestion.
Mrs. Potter-....along Meadowbrook Road.
Mr. Schermerhorn-Along Meadowbrook Road if you would like to see a twenty foot buffer zone there, I
think anymore than twenty with the houses you don't want to go back too far then I'm getting into the
critical area.
Councilman Monahan-You've got wetland restrictions there.
Mr. Turner-How deep is that lot there?
Mr. Schermerhorn-The lots are a hundred eighty feet deep. If I were to leave a twenty foot buffer zone
along the front which is all heavily treed so there is no question that there will be trees there. I believe
twenty feet along the front as long as it is safe for the driveway to access on the main road that's the only
part that would need clearing.
Mr. Steves-Driveways, water and sewer.
Mr. Schermerhorn-I'd have to seek the sewer line and water lines and Nimo would have to get there gas and
electric through there. A lot of it's brush there are a lot of decent trees that can be left is what I'm saying. I
think anybody buying the homes would appreciate me leaving them anyway because of the busy roads.
Like I said, I put it right in the deed restrictions even about the zoning that it can never be multi-family.
Councilman Monahan-I wouldn't want to say no multi-family because there are other uses there which you
should restrict it to strictly single family homes that cuts out all those other uses that are there in that zone.
Mr. Schermerhorn-Well we will strictly make it just single family residential.
Mr. Turner-Can I just say something?
Councilman Caimano-Sure.
Mr. Turner-The character of the neighborhood is residential its always been residential. To destroy that
and take the equity away from the neighbors should not be done. We're not against any residence across
the road. I still think two is more than adequate even though it's almost six acres two on Meadowbrook
Road your downsizing this thing, your going from single family to one unit on Meadowbrook Road to now
four. Yes the sewer district is there. Yes the water is there. Yes the gas is there, but this is a high water
table area. We get water all the time not just part of the time. We get it when it rains a half an inch to an
inch we get water and in the spring we get more than that. The problem with this whole area is ground
water and it's the drainage way to halfway brook. Queensbury Forest is right on Meadowbrook Road and it
has been there for a long time. We've had water there ever since I lived there and it's not getting any better
because we're getting all the runoff from upstream from the plaza's and the different developments, Quaker
Road and that's adding to the problem. The young fellow down on the other side of the brook the water
surrounds his house he gets water in his garage.
Mr. Schermerhorn-I don't disagree with you with the water table. We addressed this issue over and over
agam.
Mr. Turner-I know we have.
Mr. Schermerhorn-The purpose for the slabs is because it's not putting pressure on the earth and it's not
creating the water table to change. What prevents someone from buying...
Mr. Turner-Go ahead.
Mr. Schermerhorn-Let me talk I didn't interrupt you.
Mr. Turner-I'm sorry.
Mr. Schermerhorn-What prevents somebody from putting a ten thousand square foot house in that parcel of
land? Tell the square footage often thousand square feet where my homes might be proposed from a
thousand square feet to twelve hundred square feet. There are a lot of variables I'm willing to work with
you and make this thing peaceful. We still have to go through site plan for subdivision and everything else.
I've addressed all these concerns and I'm willing to still keep doing it. But, you keep knocking me down to
two lots it's just not feasible.
Mr. Turner-Why isn't it?
Mr. Schermerhorn-I have my reasons and you have your reasons.
Mr. Turner-Tell me why it isn't. Give me your reasons I've told you mine.
Mr. Schermerhorn-It is not feasible to sell homes on three and a half acres a piece for two individual single
family homes.
Mr. Turner-Your selling four right there.
Mr. Schermerhorn-I'm selling five.
Mr. Turner-Your selling five maybe.
Mr. Schermerhorn-See, I don't want to get back into this again. But, originally when I came to multi-
family you shot me down we all met outside, no problem Rich I don't care as long as it's not multi-family.
Single family a couple people spoke up, I don't care if you do eight or twelve single family homes on that
parcel we just don't want multi-family I respected that. Then a conversation you had with another
individual in the parking lot of a lumber store you said I'd like to see Mr. Schermerhorn do no more than
six or seven I believe it was. I even down scaled it to five and now your telling me two. I've done
everything you've wanted and then some so I just don't know where to turn. I'm just telling you I think five
is more than fair.
Councilman Monahan-The Attorney has just mentioned a problem to me. It's his opinion Paul correct me if
I'm wrong that since this water table question has come up we should be looking to whether or not we got
to do an environmental impact statement and I think we have to consider that.
Attorney Dusek-The question I think you have to ask yourself is whether or not you have sufficient
information to pass judgement on this water table issue. Your right there by the brook and you have a pond
located at one part of the property it looks like. I just caution the Board to take a good hard look at that
because you are required under the Environmental Review Laws to take a hard look. I would defer, of
course, to your planner and to the other experts. I don't...to know whether or not you need one, but just that
I think you ought to ask yourself that question.
Councilman Caimano-Given the recent history we ought to be awfully careful.
Mr. Schermerhorn-All I can say is that the ninety one units that were approved for the Bay Meadow Golf
Course their elevations I've got their maps their topo's are even lower than what I am currently, the way that
the land is now. I do have some stufffrom DEC, DEC flagging the wetlands and everything. As far as
what your addressing 1....
Councilman Caimano-Given the fact, I go across there several times a day because of job and here. I got to
tell you many times I would just assume have a boat as a car it is bad. Your right it fills up quickly we
ought to answer that problem.
Councilman Monahan- I think the thing of it is that we have to look at this. I don't feel I can do right now a
Resolution Determination of Non-Significance of Rezoning until we do look at this and address some of
these questions.
Councilman Caimano-Because of that otherwise it's alright.
Councilman Monahan-It may be that we find the rezoning makes less impact that the zoning that's already
there which would be a positive effect. I don't think we can sit here tonight without doing more homework
on this and be prepared to neg dec this.
Councilman Caimano-Are we prepare to sit down together and leave the public hearing open sit down
together and have some kind of a workshop and work this out?
Councilman Monahan-I think so absolutely.
Executive Director, Mr. Martin-I call attention to you a couple questions on the impact on land. There are
two examples in there which are construction in a designated floodway and construction on land where the
depths to the water table is less than three feet. Those are both considerations under the impact on land.
Councilman Monahan-Is that a designated floodway?
Executive Director, Mr. Martin-Yes. It has been indicated as such in Part 1, also.
Mr. Schermerhorn-I appreciate these concerns, but remember I just put sixteen units up across the street
only six hundred feet from this project.
Councilman Caimano-On the other side of the road.
Mr. Schermerhorn-And we've had absolutely no complaints from the neighbors.
Councilman Monahan-Rick you may be completely right, but if we don't go through the legal hoops that
this law says we're suppose to go through we can....
Councilman Caimano-What time did you get here?
Mr. Schermerhorn-Seven o'clock.
Councilman Caimano- We're you here at six? We had sixty people sitting out there because of something
that mayor may not have been done by the Town many many years ago we're not going to make that
mistake again.
Mr. Schermerhorn-That's why I proposed the slabs, you know I understand. But, this has been over a year
I've been working on this and I just wish I knew this up front because I have spent a lot of time on this it's
not that I've been trying to overlook any issue on this.
Councilman Monahan-We're not saying this is going to stop it. We're saying we have to look at these
questions come up with the answers see if we've done enough to mitigate so that we're fulfilling everything
that we have to do.
Supervisor Champagne-Do you want to pull this one tonight?
Councilman Monahan-I would say table it.
Mr. Schermerhorn-Would you tell me what your requiring?
Councilman Caimano-We don't know yet.
Councilman Monahan-That's what we have to find out. Leon has got one of these forms he knows what
kind of answers we're going to be looking for. We may actually find is that what your doing is making less
impact on the land than has always stayed where we are right now.
Councilman Caimano-Leave the public hearing open Paul?
Attorney Dusek-If you leave it open you are going to have to re-advertise the next time you meet it's up to
you. It is probably a good idea to re-advertise anyway.
Supervisor Champagne-So let's leave it open.
PUBLIC HEARING TO REMAIN OPEN
RESOLUTIONS
RESOLUTION APPROVING MINUTES
RESOLUTION NO. 522, 94
INTRODUCED BY: MR. NICK CAIMANO
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Fred Champagne
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves the minutes of September
19th, 1994 and October 6th, 1994.
Duly adopted this 26th day of September, 1994, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Monahan, Dr. Wiswall, Mr. Caimano, Mrs. Pulver, Mr.
Champagne
Noes: None
AbsentNone
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING SATISFACTION AGREEMENT WITH INSURANCE COMPANY
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Fred Champagne
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan
IT WAS THE DECISION OF THE TOWN BOARD TO PULL THIS RESOLUTION
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING INTERFUND ADVANCES
RESOLUTION NO.: 523, 1994
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Carol Pulver
WHEREAS, pursuant to Section 9-A of the General Municipal Law of the State of New York, the
Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is authorized to temporarily advance moneys held in any fund to
any other fund,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby authorizes the temporary
advance of funds to the accounts or funds indicated, and in the amounts indicated, as set forth below:
FROM: TO:
40 - Queensbury Water 98 - Water Plant
$ AMOUNT
75,000.
Expansion CP
01 - General Fund
102 - Carey Road Extension
22,000.
01 - General Fund
910 - Landfill Fund
10,000.
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor, as Chief Fiscal Officer, is hereby authorized and directed
to arrange for and accomplish the above-authorized transfers, and temporary advances, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor, as Chief Fiscal Officer, shall keep suitable records and
arrange for the repayment of the temporary advances as soon as available, and in the case of loans from
funds generated from differing tax bases, the Town Supervisor shall also determine the amount of interest,
if any, to be paid, upon repayment, with the amount of interest to be equal to the amount that would have
been eamed on the investment of moneys in the Fund making the advance, had the advance not been made.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1994, by the following vote:
AYES: Dr. Wiswall, Mr. Caimano, Mrs. Pulver, Mrs. Monahan, Mr.
Champagne
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION RE-APPOINTING MEMBER TO CEMETERY COMMISSION
RESOLUTION NO. 524, 94
INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Dr. George Wiswall
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury has previously established the Cemetery Commission, and
WHEREAS, the present term of Mrs. Sylvia Dougher expired on June 30, 1994,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby re-appoints Mrs. Sylvia
Dougher to serve as a member of the Cemetery Commission, said term to expire on June 30, 1997.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1994, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Caimano, Mrs. Pulver, Mrs. Monahan, Dr. Wiswall, Mr.
Champagne
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
DISCUSSION HELD BEFORE VOTE:
Councilman Monahan-Noted that Mrs. Dougher has served on this Commission for quite some time with
distinction as a Chairman and fully supports her re-appointment.
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR PUBLIC HEARING IMPROVEMENTS TO WEST GLENS
FALLS WATER DISTRICT
INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Carol Pulver
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
ATTORNEY DUSEK RECOMMENDED THE TOWN BOARD TO HOLD THIS RESOLUTION FOR
ONE WEEK DUE TO A LACK OF INFORMATION ON HIS PART MOTION WITHDRAWN
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING RELEASE OF ESCROW FUNDS
RESOLUTION NO.: 525, 94
INTRODUCED BY: MR. NICK CAIMANO
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: MRS. CAROL PULVER
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, by resolution no. 474, 94 indicated its
acceptance of the sanitary sewer system and components constructed by Queensbury Retail Limited
Partnership, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, at the time of acceptance, also
authorized the release of certain escrow funds previously retained by the Town as part of the agreement
concerning construction of the sanitary sewer system, with the exception of a certain sum to be kept for a
period of one year, a certain sum to be retained as a service charge, and the sum of $20,000 to be kept until
such time as "as built" plans and the seeding restoration work was completed upon the property, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board has been advised that the seeding and restoration work referred to
hereinabove has been completed, and that the grass has already started to grow, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board has been advised that the "as built" were received on September 23,
1994, and
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby authorizes the return of the
sum of $20,000 to Queensbury Retail Limited Partnership, thereby resulting in the retention of $2,340 of
the escrow fund for the one year deposit, and $585 as the .5% service fee.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1994, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Pulver, Mrs. Monahan, Dr. Wiswall, Mr. Caimano, Mr.
Champagne
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION TO AMEND 1994 BUDGET
RESOLUTION NO.: 526,94
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Carol Pulver
WHEREAS, certain departments have requested transfers of funds for the 1994 Budget, and
WHEREAS, said requests have been approved by the Chief Fiscal Officer,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the funds be transferred as follows, for the 1994 budget:
DOG CONTROL:
FROM: TO: AMOUNT:
1-1990-4400 1-3510-2020 14,400.
(Contingency) (DCO Vehicles)
TOWN JUSTICE:
FROM: TO: AMOUNT:
01-1110-1060 01-1110-1212 13,000.
(Clerk Full-Time) (Deputy Court Clerks)
01-1110-1060 01-1110-1062-002 1,500.
(Clerk Full-Time) (Court Clerk
Overtime Earnings)
01-1110-1060 01-1110-1212-002 4,600.
(Clerk Full-Time) (Deputy Court Clerks
HIGHWAY:
FROM: TO: AMOUNT:
01-5010-4050 01-5010-4400 200.
(Books, Pubs., Subs.) (Misc. Cont.)
01-3310-4170 01-3310-4160 2,000.
(Traffic Light Repair) (Signs)
01-5010-4070 01-5010-13 20-0002 300.
(Equip. Repair & (Conf. Ad. Sec. Overtime)
Maintenance)
01-5010-4080 01-5010-13 20-0002 500.
(Advertisement) (Conf. Ad. Sec. Overtime)
01-5010-4090 01-5010-13 20-0002 500.
(Conference Exp.) (Conf. Ad. Sec. Overtime)
04-5110-1400 04-5142-1450 22,000.
(Laborer A) (M.E.O.)
04-5142-1400 04-5142-1450 24,000.
(Laborer A) (M.E.O.)
04-5142-1400 04-5142-1470 5,000.
(Laborer A) (Working Foreman)
04-5110-1470 04-5110-1450 6,644.37
(Working Foreman) (M.E.O.)
04-5110-1470 04-5110-1470-0002 4,272.37
(Working Foreman) (Working Foreman Overtime)
04-5130-1460-0002 04-5130-1002 260.
(Mechanics)
04-5110-1400
(Laborer A)
04-5110-1440
(H.E.O.)
04-5110-1440
(H.E.O.)
04-5130-4820
(Uniforms)
04-9060-8060
(Hospitalization)
HIGHWAY:
FROM:
04-5110-1400
(Laborer A)
04-9060-8060
(Hospitalization)
04-5110-1400
(Laborer A)
04-9060-8060
(Hospitalization)
QUEENSBURY CENTER:
FROM:
1-1620-4670-27-27
(Telephone Repairs)
CEMETERY:
FROM:
02-8810-1430
(Labor-B-P.T.)
02-8810-1470
(Working Foreman)
02-8810-1470
(Working Foreman)
02-8810-1470
(Working Foreman)
(Misc. Payroll)
04-5110-1400-0002
(Laborer A Overtime)
04-5110-1440-0002
(H.E. O. Overtime)
04-5110-1450-0002
(M.E.O. Overtime)
04-5130-2060
(Tools)
04-5130-4400
(Misc. Cont.)
TO:
04-5110-1450
(M.E.O.)
04-5130-4480
(Tires)
04-5130-1460
(Mechanics)
04-5130-1460
(Mechanics)
TO:
1-1620-4400-27
(Misc. Contractual)
TO:
02-8810-1410
(Labor-A-P.T.)
02-8810-1410-0002
(Labor-P.T. - Overtime)
600.00
02-8810-1410
(Labor-A-P.T.)
02-8810-1450-0002
(M.E.O. Overtime)
406.67
679.98
4,188.59
425.
15,000.
AMOUNT:
1,056.54
4,000.
12,705.82
8,000.
AMOUNT:
250.
AMOUNT:
$5,650.00
6,577.00
1,000.00
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the 1994 Town Budget is hereby amended accordingly.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1994, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Monahan, Dr. Wiswall, Mr. Caimano, Mrs. Pulver, Mr.
Champagne
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION CHANGING NAME OF PORTION OF LAUREL LANE
RESOLUTION NO.: 527, 94
INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Carol Pulver
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Fred Champagne
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury previously accepted a road for
dedication in the Town of Queensbury known as Laurel Lane, and
WHEREAS, subsequent to the acceptance of Laurel Lane for dedication, an extension to Laurel
Lane was constructed and the Town Board accepted dedication of that extension and named the entire
street Laurel Lane, and
WHEREAS, during the course of the renumbering and naming of streets as part of the emergency
911 code, it has been recognized that a portion of Laurel Lane should actually be referred to as a separate
street due to the nature of the configuration of the road at its intersection with Marigold Drive,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby amends resolution no. 365,
94 to indicate that the extension of Laurel Lane will consist of 1,409' and the balance of the newly
constructed road will be known as Lydia Lane, which Lane will run from Marigold Drive to the extended
Laurel Lane and consist of 441', and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk is hereby authorized to provide such notification to the
Highway Department, the Department of Building and Codes and the Warren County Sheriffs Department
of the new street name as may be appropriate, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Highway Department is hereby authorized to install appropriate street signs
marking or designating Lydia Lane.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1994, by the following vote:
AYES: Dr. Wiswall, Mr. Caimano, Mrs. Pulver, Mrs. Monahan, Mr.
Champagne
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION AMENDING 1994 BUDGET
RESOLUTION NO.: 528,94
INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Carol Pulver
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury desires to approve of the purchase of
two tandem trucks for the Highway Department, and
WHEREAS, the Director of Accounting Services has advised that a 1994 budget amendment is
necessary to purchase two tandem trucks from the Highway Equipment Capital Project Fund (#094), that
additional funds are needed from the contingency account, that certain budget amendments are needed, and
that the said budget amendments will not increase the 1994 General Fund and Highway Fund total
appropriations,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves, authorizes, and
directs that the 1994 Budget be amended as follows:
la) Decrease the budget in in the Highway Fund Revenue Account #004-004-5031 (Transfer
from General Fund) by $191,000;
1 b) Decrease the budget in the General Fund Expense Account #001-9901-9004 (Transfer to
Highway Fund) by $191,000;
1 c) Decrease the budget in the General Fund Expense Account #001-1990-4400
(Contingency) by $13,000;
Id) Increase the budget in the General Fund Expense Account #001-9950-9094 (Transfer to
Highway Heavy Equipment Fund) by $204,000;
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the 1994 Town Budget is hereby amended accordingly, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby indicates its approval of
the purchase of the trucks described in the preambles hereof.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1994, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Caimano, Mrs. Pulver, Mrs. Monahan, Dr. Wiswall, Mr.
Champagne
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
ATTORNEY MATTERS
Attorney Dusek-Presented to Board members a Resolution of Proposal to Amend the Fire Service Award
for their review. Presented to Board members a Resolution of Appointing the Animal Control Officer. It
was the decision of the Town Board to pass the following resolution.
RESOLUTION APPOINTING ANIMAL CONTROL OFFICER
RESOLUTION NO.: 529,1994
INTRODUCED BY: Dr. George Wiswall
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Nick Caimano
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, by previous resolution, approved a
Local Law which established the position of Animal Control Officer for the Town of Queensbury, and
WHEREAS, Ms. Colleen E. Kimble currently holds the position of Dog Control Officer for the
Town of Queensbury and the Town Board desires to appoint Ms. Kimble to the position of Animal Control
Officer,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby establishes a rate of
compensation for the Animal Control Officer position at a rate equal to that currently established for the
Dog Control Officer position, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby appoints Ms. Colleen E.
Kimble to the position of Animal Control Officer, said appointment to have a probationary period of eight
months from the date of appointment, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Supervisor is hereby authorized and directed to complete such forms
as may be required by Civil Service concerning the new position of Animal Control Officer, and the change
in position of Ms. Kimble.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1994, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Pulver, Mrs. Monahan, Dr. Wiswall, Mr. Caimano, Mr.
Champagne
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
DISCUSSION HELD
Attorney Dusek-Presented a Resolution to Amend Employee Benefits and Employer Policies and Part Time
Legal Secretary Provision. Noted the first resolution changes the policy indicating that somebody working
thirty hours would get three quarters time benefits and the second resolution establishes that. After further
discussion it was the decision of the Town Board to pass the following resolutions.
Councilman Caimano-Asked why this couldn't be done on a pro-rated basis?
Attorney Dusek-Noted it could be done that way, but did not want to change it without Board approval,
noting that this can be changed at a later date to anything you want.
It was the decision of the Town Board to pass the following resolution.
RESOLUTION AMENDING EMPLOYEE BENEFITS AND EMPLOYER POLICIES
RESOLUTION NO.: 530, 1994
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Fred Champagne
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Carol Pulver
WHEREAS, by resolution no. 164, 92, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury established
the terms and conditions of employee benefits and employer policies applicable to non-union, Town of
Queensbury officers and employees, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury desires to amend paragraph D of that
resolution, which provides for part -time employee benefits,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby amends paragraph D of
resolution no. 164, 92 to read as follows:
Part -time employees shall be defined as permanent employees hired after the date of the adoption
of this policy working 20 hours or more, but less than full-time and will be granted vacation, sick time,
personal days, floating holidays, and bereavement, equal to 1/2 of those days and that amount of time
normally granted to full-time employees, except that if a holiday falls on a day the employee is not
scheduled to work, such employee will not be granted any additional compensation, and except that
employees who are working 30 hours or more, but less than full-time, will be granted vacation, sick time,
personal days, floating holidays, and bereavement equal to 3/4 of those days and that amount of time
normally granted to full-time employees.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1994, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Monahan, Dr. Wiswall, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Champagne
NOES: Mr. Caimano
ABSENT:None
RESOLUTION APPROVING MODIFICATION OF A FULL-TIME LEGAL SECRETARY
POSITION TO A PART-TIME LEGAL SECRETARY POSITION
RESOLUTION NO.: 531, 1994
INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Carol Pulver
WHEREAS, a proposal has been presented which would result in the modification of a current
full-time, legal secretary position to that of a 30 hour per week part-time legal secretary position in the
Town Attorney's Office, and
WHEREAS, a letter concerning the understanding that has been reached with the person holding
the position as legal secretary has been presented at this meeting of the Town Board,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves the aforesaid
letter of understanding and hereby authorizes the modification of the full-time legal secretary position to
that of a part-time legal secretary position of 30 hours per week.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1994, by the following vote:
AYES: Dr. Wiswall, Mr. Caimano, Mrs. Pulver, Mrs. Monahan, Mr.
Champagne
NOES: None
ABSENT:None
DISCUSSION HELD BEFORE VOTE:
Attorney Dusek-Asked with the Board's permission would like the opportunity to start at any time within
the next two weeks.
Supervisor Champagne-That's fine.
Councilman Caimano-Noted his reason for voting yes is this is a totally different matter than the three
quarters time.
DISCUSSION HELD
Attorney Dusek-Presented to Board Members the Pooper Scooper Law for their review.
Executive Director, Mr. Martin-Spoke to the Board regarding sidewalks and Walmart. Noted they were in
about a year ago regarding sidewalks in front of Ames Plaza. The question put to the Town was would we
maintain any sidewalks, noting thought the discussion at that time was not to then I think the discussion got
into the need for an overall Town sidewalk law. Questioned the Board for their consensus.
Councilman Monahan-Noted the Board said if they wanted to maintain them we let them put them in, but
we wanted them to maintain thern.
Supervisor Champagne-In agreement.
Councilman Caimano- The strength was that we couldn't afford to maintain all the sidewalks that are in the
despaired sections of the Town.
OPEN FORUM
Mary Ellen Reese-Spoke to the Board regarding her concern with the motorcycle track on Sunnyside Road,
noting the increase in noise and dusk in the area. Requested the Board to take action on this matter.
Gert VanDusen-Sunnyside Road. Spoke to the Board regarding the motorcycle track on Sunnyside Road.
Noted to the best of her knowledge there has never been a dirt track of that kind in this field. This is much
more concentrated and some of the bikes are being trucked in now to participate on the weekends. Noted
her concern regarding what this is doing to the value of her property on Sunnyside Road.
Unknown-Spoke to the Board regarding his concern regarding the noise from the motorcycle track on
Sunnyside Road, noting that you should consider your neighbor a little bit more. If people considered their
neighbor a little more you wouldn't need those restrictions and would live in a better environment.
Tom Graff-Sunnyside Road. Spoke to the Board regarding the motorcycle track on Sunnyside Road,
noting that these bikes are racing motorcycles. Noting this is very irritating to listen to this from eight thirty
on a Sunday morning until dusk, sometimes there are up to a dozen motorcycles. Requested the Board to
address this situation.
Florence Turnbull-Sunnyside Road. Spoke to the Board regarding the motorcycle track on Sunnyside
Road, noting her support of the neighbors regarding this issue.
Attorney Dusek-Noted he has met with Executive Director, Jim Martin. At that point in time what that
introduced that evening was the element that there was apparently a lawful use of the property that included
motorcycles. The issue becomes is the use so different that it's no longer part of the nonconforming use.
Has asked Jim Martin to obtain photographs with the permission of the owner and also to ask one of his
guys to get statements so I can all of the facts from the various people we have coming in and compare it to
the court cases that have dealt with the nonconforming use standards and whether or not they have the right
to continue that particular use. There have been some court cases if the use intensifies and increases they
allow them. The question becomes whether we have just a mere increase or whether they've actually
expanded on to new portions and are doing an activity that is somewhat different. The fact that I'm hearing
there is a motor cross type of operation and people being brought in suggests to me there are grounds to
considered it to be somewhat different. Noted before he makes any recommendations to the Town would
like to get the additional information requested from Jim's department.
Executive Director, Mr. Martin-To have information by the middle of the week.
Councilman Monahan-Noted the ATV Law, has been superseded by a State ATV Law, noted there are
some sound standards that are mentioned in our law, should look into this.
Councilman Caimano-Questioned if this could be shut down while the Town investigates?
Attorney Dusek-Noted that Mr. Martin has previously issued a letter telling him that they shouldn't be
doing it and asked them to seize. Noted they have obviously disregarded the letter the next step is to take a
court action if one is warranted.
Executive Director, Mr. Martin-Has drafted a Summons is pending the last part of this investigation. Mr.
Martin to make a report by next week.
John Schreiner-Dunhams Bay. Spoke to the Board regarding a copy of a request of a permit for the
Dunhams Bay Boat Company to be a Class A Marina. Questioned if the Town has done anything
regarding this?
Executive Director, Mr. Martin-Has received a copy and understood that it is a notice of a renewal.
Mr. Schreiner-Noted it is a request to become a Class A Marina. They have never had a permit to be a
Class A Marina. This request for permit was filed in 1992 and no one knows where it has been for the last
two years. Noted his concern that on the permit request it is calling for the dockage offorty two boats and
they have to have a parking space for each boat customer. Dunhams Bay Boat Company has taken the
liberty of saying they have forty two parking spots on site if not a reserved parking area is located across
Route 9L. Concerned if this is allowed this is going to devalue his property more, asked where the Town
stands on this?
Councilman Pulver-If this was to happen if they would have to make application to the Planning Board
would have to come back to the Town.
Councilman Monahan-Noted the need to research this matter. All the stipulations need to be sent to the
agency.
Executive Director, Mr. Martin-If there was going to be any expansion in any way of this facility it would
need a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals first. If it were to obtain such variance then it would
need site plan review by the Planning Board.
Councilman Caimano-Questioned how long ago this was received?
Mr. Schreiner-September 28th it was sent out to me and received it a week ago.
Executive Director, Mr. Martin-Received it a week ago.
Councilman Monahan-Questioned the response time?
John Salvador-October 28th comments are due.
Mr. Schreiner-Responded to letter and in letter stated concerns. Asked in the letter for the department to
contact Town of Queensbury because of rules and requested that they would not issue this permit until they
look into all these details.
Councilman Monahan-Thinks the detail is when the Planning Board gave them their last thing the land was
not to be used for parking this throws out part of the statements they are making on their application.
Councilman Pulver-Recommended sending the minutes of the meeting regarding this matter along with any
type of response.
Councilman Monahan-Requested that Mr. Martin's staff research this to make it a high priority.
Mr. Salvador-Spoke to the Board regarding the background of the registration of docks on Lake George
pertaining to Marina registration. Asked the Town Board to look into the areas of public health issue and
the parking pertaining to the Dunhams Bay Boat Company.
Councilman Monahan-Noted that the marina definition that is in the zoning is not the same marina
definition that's in the Lake George Park Regulations those apply up there.
Mr. Salvador-Questioned if the Draft Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement for North Queensbury
is available?
Supervisor Champagne-Noted he could loan him one of his copies.
Gilbert Bowen-Recommended when the Board looks into the septic system that they look at an area
between the two roads the new Dunhams Bay Road and Route 9L. There is a reinforce wall up above that
there is sometimes an open hole and it looks like that's a seepage pit.
OPEN FORUM CLOSED
RESOLUTION APPROVING AUDIT OF BILLS
RESOLUTION NO. 532, 94
INTRODUCED BY: MR. FRED CHAMPAGNE
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: MRS. BETTY MONAHAN
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby approves the Abstract of Bills
appearing on October 17th, 1994 and numbering 94404400 through 94427800 and totaling $581,378.88.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1994, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mr. Caimano, Mrs. Pulver, Mrs. Monahan, Dr. Wiswall, Mr.
Champagne
Noes: None
AbsentNone
Abstain: Mr. Caimano (000127 Post Star)
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING MEETING
RESOLUTION NO. 533, 94
INTRODUCED BY: MR. NICK CAIMANO
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: MRS. CAROL PULVER
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Regular Town Board
Meeting.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1994, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Pulver, Mrs. Monahan, Dr. Wiswall, Mr. Caimano, Mr.
Champagne
Noes: None
AbsentNone
No further action taken.
On motion, the meeting was adjourned.
Respectfully Submitted,
Darleen M. Dougher
Town Clerk
Town of Queensbury