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2008-04-14 SP MTG. #16SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 04-14-2008 MTG#16 640 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. #16 April 14, 2008 RES. # 221-223 7:00 P.M. TOWN BOARD MEMBERS SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN ANTHONY METIVIER COUNCILMAN RONALD MONTESI COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH-ABSENT COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER- ABSENT TOWN OFFICIALS TERI ROSS- ASSESSOR CHRIS HARRINGTON- WATER DEPARTMENT ENGINEER BRUCE OSTRANDER- WATER SUPERINTENDENT 1.0ZBA INTERVIEWS RESOLUTION ENTERING EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO.: 221, 2008 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Anthony Metivier WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Ronald Montesi RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from regular session and enters into executive session to interview candidates for ZBA and discussion on personnel issues. Duly adopted this 14th day of April, 2008 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Metivier, Mr. Montesi, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO.: 222, 2008 INTRODUCED BY: Mr Anthony Metivier WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Ronald Montesi , RESOLVEDthat the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from executive session. Duly adopted this 14th day of April, 2008 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Montesi, Mr. Stec, Mr. Metivier NOES: None ABSENT: Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer NO ACTION TAKEN IN EXECUTIVE SESSION SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 04-14-2008 MTG#16 641 REGULAR SESSION 2.0WATER DEPARTMENT PROJECTS ENGINEER HARRINGTON- Spoke to the Board regarding an error in notice of public hearing that was to be held on Monday, April 21, 2008 on Water Transmission System Improvements in area of Northup Drive, Bullard Avenue, Linden Avenue and Section of Park Place within Queensbury Consolidated Water District. A new public hearing will be set for Monday, May 5, 2008. SUPERVISOR STEC- Spoke regarding roof repair at the water department. After further discussion it was the decision of the Board to have Mr. Harrington look into the cost of repairs and if it needs replacing go through the process of getting quotes. Discussion held regarding summer employment at Water Department. Discussion held regarding Shore Colony Water District. Still waiting to hear from Mr. Smith regarding his interest in summer employment for meter reading. ENGINEER HARRINGTON- Spoke to the Board regarding the energy audit done by Barton and Lodguice. The outcome of the audit was replacement of pumps. Came to the conclusion that they have two different pumping periods. We are trying to get pumps more appropriately sized for the winter season to be more efficient. We also want to put a valve on Luzerne Road, which will close Luzerne Road off and allow water to be pumped up to Gurney Lane. This will save energy because it will pump a lot at night and let the tanks drain down during the day. SUPERVISOR STEC- The energy savings will pay for the valve. ENGINEER HARRINGTON- Spoke regarding the importance of using the Ross Valves as opposed to another brand that they are less familiar with. COUNCILMAN MONTESI- Questioned the price differences in valves. SUPERVISOR STEC- Will speak with Bob Hafner regarding preparing a resolution for th May 5, 2008. ENGINEER HARRINGTON- Spoke regarding backflow protection policy and leak detection. The policy isn’t the problem. DOH doesn’t really feel it’s sufficient. When we have a policy we want to be able to implement it and enforce it or it is not worth having a good, strong policy. It is going to take time to implement the policy to make sure everybody complies. Would like to send the person who will be implementing this to school to be a certified backflow prevention tester. Scott Bernard looks to be the best candidate for the course. COUNCILMAN MONTESI- Questioned the backflow devices in place currently. ENGINEER HARRINGTON- We have three at the Treatment Plant. We have four that go out for contractors if they use metered water out on a job they have to be tested Wastewater has at least three. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Questioned how many more do they need to qualify for the Department of Health? ENGINEER HARRINGTON- I think you need to do thirty tests over three years. COUNCILMAN MONTESI- Are all the funeral homes on it? SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 04-14-2008 MTG#16 642 ENGINEER HARRINGTON- No, but they need to be. Guidelines should be that all funeral homes should have them, nurseries and dental offices should have them. COUNCILMAN MONTESI- Questioned the backflow device SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER- You could start out with a double check valve. RPZ is reduce pressure zone. Companies or industries that would use chemical heat systems they are not adequate so they use reduce pressure zone, which is a dual reduce pressure zone system. When you have those, they need to be tested each and every year by a certified tester. SUPERVISOR STEC- Where would you need these backflow devices? SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER- The school, funeral homes etc. First, we need it to be in the code. COUNCILMAN MONTESI- So, we need to write a law for backflow prevention. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER- Write a law that is acceptable to the Department of Health. SUPERVISOR STEC- They are not installed in individual homes? ENGINEER HARRINGTON- They are not considered a high hazard. SUPERVISOR STEC- So there is a criteria out there that says the water supply going into one of these situations has to have one of these. There are only ten or so in the Town? ENGINEER HARRINGTON- The ten are in the Water Department. Those ten will allow us to have a guide to get certified every three years. SUPERVISOR STEC- How many are in the Town of Queensbury ENGINEER HARRINGTON- Maybe twenty COUNCILMAN MONTESI- Does a funeral home normally have to put one on? ENGINEER HARRINGTON- Yes, not just in Queensbury, but everywhere in New York State. COUNCILMAN MONTESI- So there are mandates on some of these things. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER- There is a state plumbing code and a sanitary code that is going to help us. SUPERVISOR STEC- Would our guy inspect these? SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER- I would rather not. We just want our guy certified to be the expert and to do our own. COUNCILMAN MONTESI- Are we paying to have someone do ours now? SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER- We are. SUPERVISOR STEC- How much are we paying this guy? ENGINEER HARRINGTON- We pay eighty five dollars for each backflow preventer. SUPERVISOR STEC- Are you going to hire another person? SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 04-14-2008 MTG#16 643 SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER- No, but having this person isn’t because of the certified testing it’s for the prevention program. We don’t really have anybody right now to oversee and to put the time into this program that it is going to need to be established and to run. Every year he needs to make sure that all of these companies do that test, furnish him with the documentations. The Health Department has mandated that we have to monitor that. SUPERVISOR STEC- In addition to the ten in our building we have the responsibility to make sure that everyone else is doing their own? SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER- Yes, to enforce the state health law. We need to follow through with this and we also need to do more with regards to leak detection. These two things together will justify a new position. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-This person gets certified we have an in-house person for our ten how does he get the inventory of how many more there are in Town and who has to give him the report? SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-Scott Burnard is the first person when we get plans in that reviews the plans then he and I review them we will know what type of industry is going in we will know if someone will need to have a backflow prevention device. SUPERVISOR STEC-Questioned the process and distribution of how they determine who needs backflow prevention devices. After further discussion Water Superintendent, Mr. Ostrander will work on the local law to establish the policy with Attorney Hafner. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-Spoke to the board regarding leak detection. For every one percent of water we lose in the system it costs us thirty thousand dollars. If we do two billion gallons in one year, which is about what we did last year then it will save about thirty thousand for each percent. It also depends on how you calculate it we would also like to have meters on the firehouses not because we want them to pay for the water we want to know what they are using. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Asked where they think the biggest part of it is from. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-Does not know, is sure part of it is theft this should be part of the program to identify that. You can have leaks in areas where they are virtually undetectable under normal circumstances. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Asked what happens when there is a fire and they take water out of a hydrant is that free water? SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-Yes and it counts as a lost it is in the sixteen percent. That is why there is an inaccuracy between the master meter that leads the plant and all the meters in the homes they are not going to match the accuracy is going to be off. That is why they save twelve, thirteen, fourteen percent is acceptable. ENGINEER HARRINGTON-That is what DEC looks at this is what they look at. What DEC wants to know what is our water loss they are concerned if we have water loss, we are losing chlorinated water possibly into a brook. SUPERVISOR STEC-Asked what they would like to do regarding leak detection. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-That is part of the same thing with the backflow prevention where we shift responsibilities to the GIS technician just for backflow prevention and mapping. Then we would bring another person in to help with leak detection and doing the inspections and locations where Scott was before. In the end I would say you would end up hiring another laborer in the distribution department. SUPERVISOR STEC-Questioned how much the roof might cost. ENGINEER HARRINGTON-Two hundred thousand. SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 04-14-2008 MTG#16 644 COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Asked if they have a set plans drawn for the roof? ENGINEER HARRINGTON-We have an engineer that we are about to sign an agreement with. I am waiting for Bob Hafner regarding if a public hearing has to be held for a non-bonded job at the Water Plant. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Asked what the engineering cost is going to be? ENGINEER HARRINGTON-Right now ninety nine hundred dollars we had another quote for twenty four thousand. SUPERVISOR STEC-Recommended that the Town Engineer speak with the Engineer who submitted the quote for the specs for the roof. Discussion held regarding sludge. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-We haven’t gone that far with it. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-We are talking about alum we have developed a big pile of alum. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-Since the landfill has closed there is no place to put it. What we have to do is develop a beneficial use for it basically you will mix it with something else to almost make topsoil. SUPERVISORS STEC-There are places that do this. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-We would have to have it tested. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-There are some communities that have found a beneficial use for it then DEC says you can get rid of that. ENGINEER HARRINGTON-We have about a thousand tons. SUPERVISOR STEC-How much do we generate a year? ENGINEER HARRINGTON-Eighty tons a year. SUPERVISOR STEC-It is not a crisis yet. If we found a use for it would you go and harvest or excavate that thousand that you currently have or are you looking forward? SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-We are looking forward unless DEC says you have to get rid of it. SUPERVISOR STEC-You will look into that. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-It is something that we know it would be down the line it is not something that has to be today or tomorrow. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-We bought seven or eight acres from Nimo back a bunch years ago. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-That is where the drying beds are. TOC reduction right now there is the disinfection byproduct rule where you have to lower the THM’s in the water. We are okay right now, but this is a process that may help reduce our levels even lower as the regulations go lower. Disinfection byproducts are a type of thing that the longer they are in system the higher they go. It is something we may not have a problem with, but Moreau buys water from us. Kingsbury buys water from us. Hudson Falls buys water from us at the end of their system they may have a problem this is something we are looking at. We understand that Rutland may try this process this summer in a pilot we just want to look into this process to see how successful it is. Powder activated carbon and alum feed systems. The alum feed system is still the original one with the original treatment plant the problem is the rotor…feeder has worked SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 04-14-2008 MTG#16 645 great for us there is nothing wrong with it. The parts they don’t make anymore for the feed system we would just go with a normal chemical feed pump like we have in other areas. SUPERVISOR STEC-Asked how much the feed system overhaul cost ball park? SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-Does not know. The biggest part of that are the two five thousand gallons fiber glass tanks that are thirty years old. The problem with the alum tanks is they are in the room you cannot take them out you can’t take the roof off. To take them out we will have to cut them up whatever you put in there you are going to have to build inside there. The only other possibility they said they are too old, but to reline those tanks we will have that looked at first. The other part of that is the powder deck. The PAC is powder activated carbon feed system that was put in with the problems with the PCB’s we also use it for taste and odor control in August, September. It is there mainly in case PCB’s were found in the water to treat the PCB’s. This is a system that National Grid gave us back in that time period for the three million gallon a day plant that was second hand back then it really doesn’t work at all now it needs to be rebuilt. What we would like to do they have a PAC System in the County Plant across the river we will go over when they finish take a look at that. Chris spoke today with Smith Instrumentation this for those periods of time when we might need to run our plant without operators for whatever reason flu epidemic, whatever reason people are off or out Chris and I may need to operate the plant. We already put in place where we can remotely look at the treatment plant to see what is going on this would give us instrumentation where we can change and adjust chemical feed rates from the remote areas. We would not have to be at the plant to be able to change chemical feed rates. ENGINEER HARRINGTON-The quote received today probably seventy five hundred dollars. WATER SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-Queensbury Industrial Park that was postponed in January we said fine we will let it go until June or July. The Kingsbury Contract goes through on the contract 2011, but it has already gone past a few things that could trigger that contract being redone. The Industrial Park no one has ever had a contract to take care of it, its no man’s land. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Need to address this expediently with Kingsbury. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-Also part of the history Kingsbury has just expanded their system. I said if you are willing to expand your system why won’t you take over the Industrial Park they don’t want anything to do with it even though it is in the Town of Kingsbury. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Right now no one is paying for what we are doing there. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-There is a district that is being formed there, but you still need a contract with someone to take care of that. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Who buys the taps. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-When they come in now we won’t do a tap there we will inspect the tap to make sure it meets our design and construction standards, but you have to get a private contractor to do the tap. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-There is a little contingent liability out there that we are going to be stuck with. We agree to sell them four hundred thousand gallons a year is that the deal with Kingsbury? SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-They can get up to two hundred thousand gallons a day. One of the triggers for redoing the contract would be them exceeding that amount. They have said with these new subdivisions that is going to take twenty years to build out before that happens. Right now they are paying a dollar sixty five per thousand. SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 04-14-2008 MTG#16 646 COUNCILMAN MONTESI-They don’t count in that two hundred thousand they don’t count the Industrial Park? SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-No. They were talking about they wanted more water they needed the thing signed; I said okay we can do that we need to solve this. They agreed if I signed that sheet of paper that said, yes we can provide you with this much water…. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Asked how much water do they want another two hundred thousand. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-They didn’t need that much it was just going to go over what their maximum is now. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Even if they gave us some type of a contract that said you have the right to flush the hydrants, you have the right to repair the pipes charge them. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-The problem now is they are getting the cheapest water they are being charged O & M they are paying nothing for capital. SUPERVISOR STEC-To discuss the matter with Counsel. Discussion held regarding water rate evaluations. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-Right now it is very good our water rate right now is a dollar fifty two per thousand. I figured out the numbers from 2006 that is exactly where we are right now on O & M is a dollar fifty two. Thinks they are a little heavy on the advelorumside before budget we could sit down and look at this. Thinks because it was a dry year last year we are going to be adding more to the fund balance from 2007. Where we want to go is to keep things balance because when we do have to increase the water rates at some point we don’t want to go from a dollar fifty two to two dollars we would rather go slowly. Also want to look at rate in the middle for people who use water to water their lawns their rate goes up at that medium use level that might also promote some conservation. That also helps keep that minimum down low for the fixed income people. COUNCILMAN METIVIER-People that are on sewer that water their lawns argue the fact that they are getting double taxed we need to get around that, too. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-They have the option of getting a dedicated meter. Discussion held regarding district extensions. COUNCILMAN MONTESI- Questioned how many contract users are they talking. ENGINEER HARRINGTON-Thirty parcels, twenty of them contract, ten have made it over the years that have not paid the advelorum there are thirty properties that we need to bring in. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-Most of them are from that water transmission project on Ridge Road. ENGINEER HARRINGTON-We need a public hearing Counsel is reviewing the draft as soon as draft is reviewed will formally put something together. SUPERVISOR STEC-Everything we are talking about we are talking about trying to wrap this up in 2008. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-Spoke to the board regarding replacing the AC pipe. Northup, Linden Avenue this will take away the only full street left with AC pipe. We have two or three small areas left after this, but we are just about done with the AC pipe after that then we move to unlined cast iron. SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 04-14-2008 MTG#16 647 SUPERVISOR STEC-Spoke regarding wrapping up Gasby 34. The audit that is going to be done this spring for 2007 is going to be Gasby 34 compliant. This was an inventory from water, sewer, and highway. Water and sewer are done and highway is just about done. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-Spoke to the board regarding Dix Avenue they have some external corrosion issues there also has some pipe that is sitting on rock that isn’t five feet deep this will be the area they will move to next. Spoke regarding the Luzerne Road tank noting it is the next tank to be painted had it checked in 2005 it is fine will have it checked again this is the next tank to paint inside and outside noting this will be done later on. Moreau hasn’t starting paying for their second million they wanted to know where the third million was going to come from. Chris did some work with their engineers to find out how we can get three million. After two million the piping we have now won’t feed them anymore than that. SUPERVISOR STEC-Asked if we are obligated to provide them three. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-No. WATER DEPARTMENT ENGINEER, MR. HARRINGTON-Their engineer wanted to have five year plan. Where could they get water from, can Queensbury do it and what will Queensbury need to do it? COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Asked how big the pipe is across the river? SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-Sixteen inch. We have two eight inch lines going to that. ENGINEER HARRINGTON-You lose all your head in the Big Bay, Big Boom area this is where you lose all your water pressure. There are two things you could do you could either put another ten inch down Big Bay and parallel your pressure loss isn’t as great or we looked at a river crossing by Richardson Street. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Asked how big of a pipe would they put on Richardson Street? ENGINEER, MR. HARRINGTON-Twelve or sixteen inch has modeled this noting they would have no problem getting water to them. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-There is a rule regarding subdivisions any subdivision that goes in within a thousand feet of our water district has to hook up asked for Water Department to look into this. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-Spoke to the board regarding the Treatment Plant Expansion noting this is something to be done down the road. SUPERVISOR STEC-Whatever we are going to do we can probably treat them like we do now they contract as a customer and we control the plant, thinks the plant is in good hands. SUPERINTENDENT OSTRANDER-Spoke regarding Water Wastewater Agency Response Network something started through the APA and the American Waterworks Association. It is an emergency response network they are trying to network all of the municipalities water, wastewater system. What they do is if you sign a contract with them you are not obligated to anyone but you become part of the system where you list your assets and what you have manpower, equipment, pipe, etc. If there is an emergency somewhere in any part of the State they may call on you to supply. If it is manpower they will pay your wage rate if it is heavy equipment you pay a predetermined rate. It is like mutual aid noting this is suppose to be Country wide he will be scheduling someone to come and discuss this matter. 3.0VETERANS EXEMPTIONS SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 04-14-2008 MTG#16 648 SUPERVISOR STEC-The Town for years has offered veterans exemption there is a war time vet, combat vet, and disabled vet noting it was a percentage off of your assessed value up to a limit. ASSESSOR MS. ROSS-For years it was based on eighty thousand dollars. SUPERVISOR STEC-The State came in and said you can opt in to a higher amount than eighty thousand up to two hundred and forty thousand. At the time every Town in the County decided on the same amount that they were going to go from eighty to a hundred and eighty. The Town Board and County adopted it unanimously it doesn’t have any impact on the Town while we have a zero Town tax it is only an exemption on the general tax no school no special districts it is just Town and County. The County is separate from us they can have their own number for our purposes we are talking about an exemption in Queensbury on the tax rate that we haven’t had in seven years and we probably won’t have for another seven years. A couple years ago we did vote to bring it to a hundred and eighty from eighty. The County is looking at brining it up now to probably two twenty, would like to be ahead of the curve on the County if we did two forty I would use that to lean on the County. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-What does that mean? ASSESSOR MS. ROSS-The maximum would be based on a house that is assessed at two forty. SUPERVISOR STEC-What the exemption is a percentage. ASSESSOR MS. ROSS-Fifteen percent for war time and twenty five percent for combat, disabled is a disability. SUPERVISOR STEC-What Teri did is for wartime vets in Queensbury there are almost seven hundred under the two twenty you had about four hundred that were under that and you had eighty five that were somewhere between one eighty and two twenty. Teri did a calculation if we opted for the wartime vet impact to go from one eighty this was two twenty that the amount of exemptions out there is about a million dollars. For combat vets the additional exemption total for that six hundred people is another one point one million dollars. If we increase it you have about two point one million dollars of additional exemptions if the Town tax is zero it has zero impact on everybody else. If the Town had a fifty cents a thousand tax rate and we had two million dollars of additional exemptions out there that fifty cents a thousand would be one thousand dollars all these fifteen hundred people are going to split a thousand bucks and the other twenty five thousand people are going to cover a thousand bucks doesn’t see this as a significant impact I think it is more gesture. ASSESSOR MS. ROSS-At the County level I calculated at if we go from a hundred and eighty to two forty, which I am talking assessments the maximum for a wartime right now is twenty seven it would go up to thirty six thousand. If your house is assessed at two forty you would have an exemption of thirty six thousand dollars. The impact to the County would be twelve thousand two hundred dollars for us to go from one eighty to two forty. SUPERVISOR STEC-For Queensbury or the whole County the Town’s difference or all the County would be twelve thousand dollars? ASSESSOR MS. ROSS-In the Town of Queensbury if the County went from one eighty to two forty it would make a twelve thousand dollars difference. SUPERVISOR STEC-The Town is about a third of the assessed value in the County. ASSESSOR MS. ROSS-Roughly. SUPERVISOR STEC-You are talking about thirty to forty thousand dollars county wide. SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 04-14-2008 MTG#16 649 ASSESSOR MS ROSS-Maybe there would be no impact to the Town. SUPERVISOR STEC-The question would be why do it we will put it on the books that someday ten, twenty, years from now if we had a tax it is on the books. ASSESSOR MS. ROSS-There is no Town tax so it is not affecting us. The County is looking at going to two twenty anyway so why not go to the max. SUPERVISOR STEC-It is the right thing to do. ASSESSOR, MS. ROSS-Right now the veteran exemption is only for people that have served during war time. There is 1940-1945, Korean War, Vietnam War and then the first Golf War 1991 forward it is still open these are the only people that can qualify for the veterans exemption. The State has decided that they would like to open up the Cold War time those in-between times between World War II and the Korean War and between the Korean War and Vietnam War and between the Vietnam War and the Gulf War this is the first year they are allowing a lesser rate it is only a ten year exemption the max is twelve thousand dollars off your assessment believes they will need a public hearing this is local law.. RESOLUTION ADJOURNING TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION NO.: 223, 2008 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Anthony Metivier WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Ronald Montesi RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Special Town Board Meeting. Duly adopted this 14th day of April, 2008 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Stec, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Montesi NOES: None ABSENT: Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury