2003-12-01
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
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REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING
DECEMBER 1, 2003
7:05 p.m.
MTG. #57
RES. 495-518
BOH.41-42
TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER
COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR
COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER
COUNCILMAN DANIEL STEC
COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER
TOWN OFFICIALS
DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CHRIS ROUND
SR. PLANNER MARILYN RYBA
DEPUTY WASTEWATER SUPT. MIKE SHAW
SUPERINTENDENT OF PINE VIEW CEMETERY MIKE GENIER
PLEGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY COUNCILMAN BREWER
1.0 BOARD OF HEALTH
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH
RESOLUTION NO. 495.2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR ITS
ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby
moves into the Queensbury Board of Health.
Duly adopted this 1st day of December, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT:
1.1 PUBLIC HEARING - SEWER VARIANCE-MARTIN
DION
NOTICE SHOWN
Supervisor Brower-Is Mr. Dion here or his representative, good
evening Sir. I know the Town requested a review either by our
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engineer or by an engineer of the Lake George Park Commission so I
assume Craig may have some information for us or will you have that
for us?
Director of Community Development Chris Round-Dave Hatin has a
letter or memo to you that includes that results of those review
findings.
Supervisor Brower-Thanks for coming this evening. Would you care
to give us a brief background on your situation that you have on
Seelye Road.
Mr. Martin Dion-I am on the lake side of Seelye Road and the
property heads down, down hill toward the lake. The well is at the
top of the property a nd the septic is down in front of the house
toward the lake...from the well. What we are trying to do is to put a
better system in there that actually works well and we pump pretty
regularity at this point in time. The design that was...
Supervisor Brower-Would you, is your mic turned on, you need to
speak into the mic more directly. People in the back had a difficult
time hearing you.
Mr. Dion-The design that was turned into the Town by Nace
Engineering lays out the study that was done they did some perk
tests they did some soils information. There was a survey done of
the property the grades were laid out and they fit on a system that
would support a three bedroom house. There is a variance that is
required by that, there is a ninety two foot separation and I
understand that it is supposed to be a hundred feet, between the
well and the septic. But, I guess the mitigating factor here is that the
septic is down hill by I think it is like almost six or eight feet. I guess
that is pretty much the capsule summary.
Supervisor Brower-Any questions by the Town Board Members at this
time, of Mr. Dion? Why don't we have Darleen read that into the
record at this time?
Councilman Brewer-Weren't we going to have an engineer look at
this or?
Supervisor Brower-Yes, we requested that.
Town Clerk Darleen Dougher read the following into the record.
To: Town Board Members
From: David Hatin, Director
Building and Code Enforcement
Date: December 1, 2003
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Based on the property constraints this seems to be the only logical
place for the septic system to be installed on the property.
I have also talked to Tom Wardell, Engineer for the Lake George Park
Commission, and he stated to me that the Park Commission has no
rules and regulations regarding septic systems, and therefore could
offer no official opinion on this septic design, but off the records said
that the system appeared to be designed properly.
I trust this will answer all your concerns, if not, please don't hesitate
to contact me.
Director Dave Hatin
Councilman Boor-I have a couple of questions if I might, and then I
think Chris will help me out here. The ninety two feet in lieu of a
hundred I don't have a really big problem with, I do not consider that
out of the realm of what is appropriate and what isn't. I do have an
issue with the thirty three percent relief you are asking for the depth
of the soils. That is a lot. I do however think there is a solution to
that, that unfortunately would take some time but I think I would be
more comfortable with and I think Chris can help me out with the
Code Section. But, I believe you could bring in soils and build up to
where you would have the three feet however it would not be
considered native soils for a year. I am not sure if I am stating that
correctly but that is the impression I have been left with. In which
case a year from now you would be able, I would be comfortable
with the application you have before us now because you would have
the three feet you need for depth. I think thirty three percent is just
is too much. It is a shot in the dark for us of the fact that Mr.
Wardell says the system is correct he is just talking about the system
you are putting in not if it is going to have a negative impact it is
really not an engineers view of what we have got here. So, Chris am
I correct, if soils are brought
Director of Community Development Chris Round-Yes, You have said
everything.
Councilman Boor-I know that, that doesn't help you out for
immediate future but I see that as a way of relieving what I consider
to be too much relief. That is the thirty three percent that you are
seeking to bedrock.
Councilman Brewer-Aren't there systems that as I recall, we have
had systems that were made that were raised beds wouldn't that be
similar to what you are talking about?
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Councilman Boor-Yea, it is not, it goes it has to be native and it not
native until it has to be there for a year.
Councilman Brewer-A raised bed has to be native?
Director Round-What Roger is talking about, is that when you place
fill on sites you have to design it to different standards and those are
fill systems or elevated systems. I think what is in front of you is a
conventional system. There are ways and I am not the reviewing
individual in this case but there are ways you can bring non native
soils on the site and allow them to remain on site and then they are
reviewed under a different standard. There are several engineers in
the audience so I am not going to quote with the specifics of that but
there are alternatives to that. Just for Mr. Dion's benefit, I think
what the Board has experienced is a significant number of septic
systems variances over the last several years and most significantly
over the last six to nine months and I think they become more
sensitive to variance requests so they are looking at, the Board is
looking at are there alternatives to granting a variance from the
system. This particular application is the first one we have referred
to the Park Commission. Our conversation with the Park System said
they would review it for technical completeness and substance, but
again since it is not their standard that they are applying they are
hesitant to offer an opinion on the system. I think the Towns
engineer will review it but I guess Roger and I, our conversation
today was it is very difficult to place to give qualitative judgments
about variance from the standards. So, I think the engineers are
going to struggle and what opinion is it that you want them to
render? If you follow me, it is a very
Supervisor Brower-It sounds like our Attorney.
Town Counsel Hafner-Thank you.
Director Round-They are going to say there is standard in the
regulation they request relief and what answer is it that you, what
judgment are you, do you wish them to make about the particular
application? Is it significant, is it in their professional opinion do you
think the relief is going to cause harm to environment? It is very
subjective when engineers are operating in a very quantitative world
you are looking for qualitative statements from engineers so it is
difficult to corner that.
Councilman Brewer-In my opinion what I would want from an
engineer is that this system is particularly not adequate but the
alternative is this system that is what I am looking for. I do not want
to know yea, this could work, no it won't work if he feels the
engineer feels this doesn't work give us an alternative.
Director Round-Well I think that is the instructions I think the full
board has to give feed back to Mr. Dion and you need to hear from
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the public, but I think there is always alternatives to variances. You
can certainly ask the applicant to come back and say hey we want to
see you construct a fill system, but again that is going to cause
different variances. I mean any of these lots on the lake have
constraints and you have seen a previous application you ask for a fill
system you are going to see side set backs vs separations to bed
rock or ground water.
Councilman Boor-I agree with what you are saying I guess the fact
that you only have to go up a foot as compared with a four foot
elevation two feet off the property line which was another
application. Yours is actually quite mild compared to some, but you
understand when you start getting in the twenty five to thirty and
above percentage relief it is kind of esoteric for us to sit up here
without the education and say that is fine that is going to be ok, we
do not have that expertise and apparently even Mr. Wardell is
reluctant to render an engineering view if this will have an
detrimental affect on the lake, adjoining properties whatever. He is
saying the system will work for you but is it ultimately creating a
greater negative effect on surrounding properties in the lake. He
apparently is not comfortable commenting on that and that is really
our concern. Like I said I would be happy if you could build it up to
where you don't even need the second variance. I do not have a
problem with the first part, that is a ten percent relief or less than ten
percent is.
Mr. Dion-Well, could I ask can I walk out of here with at least that
variance in place so that if we do decide to go that direction and we
actually do bring the fill in be contingent upon that sitting for a year?
Is that safe to
Councilman Boor-This is my understanding, I would want to get more
collaboration but that is my understanding of it. I do not know if it
would do you any good I do not know how the rest of the board feels
about granting a partial, I do not think it is really a benefit to you but
if it makes you feel better, maybe the rest of the board would do
th at.
Mr. Dion-Well, it would be a benefit to me then I would not have to
come back and do this all over again.
Councilman Boor-Yes, you will.
Supervisor Brower-The distance to the well you would not have to.
Mr. Dion-No, that is just what I was talking about.
Supervisor Brower-The depth to bedrock you would.
Mr. Dion-There seems like there is not, their consensus that is not
the problem the other part is the problem so I am only asking for
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that variance to be let to if we do not have to come back for the
other variance then we are free to go, we can do it a year from now
without having to come back and go through the whole thing again.
Councilman Boor-I would defer to Counsel is that?
Director Round-You can always entertain some portion of relief I
think you can also look at it is table it and confirm those facts that it
is a feasible solution and come back and get the approval in two
weeks. You can always table action on that, it does require a return
visit but it doesn't require to enter the whole process all over again.
I do not know if the Boards from what I am hearing I have not heard
everybody speak but we do not want to send you off in a direction
that may not be technically feasible. Tabling might be a more
prudent action in my mind.
Supervisor Brower-I tend to agree with you Chris, only because quite
frankly my concern about building up the land depth is that the effect
it might have either on the lake number one or on neighboring
properties, if you have a lot of soil.
Councilman Boor-I do not think it is a problem if you look at the map.
Mr. Dion-You really ask the softer part of the elevation so there
would not be a problem building that portion up and then sloping it
gently down.
Councilman Boor-We are only talking ten inches to where you would
not need any variance what so ever.
Mr. Dion-I have absolutely no problem with that as a matter of fact it
will mitigate some other concerns I had, that, that is, I just do not
want to keep going on with this thing, we waited a long while to be
able to get the monies to afford to be able to do this at all. The
longer it goes on the more costly everything gets. I just want to get
it done so we have a sound system. I am sick of not having a sound
system. I am sure that most of the people on that side of the lake
are sick of not having sound systems as well as the lake is sick of not
having sound systems.
Councilman Brewer-I am not having a problem with that but I would
suggest instead of just ten inches, maybe twelve inches just or
whatever.
Mr. Dion-You tell me, I will bring in two feet if you want me to, I
could figure that out easily.
Councilman Boor-Technically you need ten and you know certainly I
do not want to see a situation created where you create run off to
other properties. You obviously have more than ten feet from where
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you would mound so I do not think it is an issue, but it does not have
to be huge.
Mr. Dion-Will I do not want a huge mound out there either, it works
it really does around that area.
Councilman Boor-So, how would we want to proceed with this thing?
Supervisor Brower-Well, I think we should open the public hearing
and see if there are interested parties, that wish to comment on the
application before us, and then we will determine that. Thank you
Mr. Dion. At this time I would like to open the Public Hearing and
ask any interested parties that would care to comment on the
sewage disposal variance before us for 131 Seelye Road come
forward at this time, simply state your name and address for the
record. Is there anyone that would like to comment on this Public
Hearing, present? Seeing none I guess I will ask you to come back
up Mr. Dion. Ok. How do Board Members feel on this, Dan, how do
you feel on th is?
Councilman Stec-I agree with Roger I do not think the eight feet of
relief that sought is an issue and if we can grant that portion of the
variance and perhaps avoid any future visit to take care of the rest I
think that would be the best way to go. So, I like the plan of going
two weeks.
Councilman Boor-I agree we do probably need a verification that it is
built up though.
Mr. Dion- I would, the first thing I am doing my first phone call out of
here in the morning is to Nace to find out what exactly I have to,
what would be an appropriate system given that we have this ninety
two foot so we would not have to come back for another variance.
So, I can somewhat assure you that, that is where we would go.
Councilman Boor-So, what would you want to see Bob.
Councilman Brewer-I am fine with that.
Councilman Turner-I would like to see him show, we can grant him
the 92' of relief but I would also after that, he would have to show us
that he raised that and changed the elevation at that point where the
system is going to set in.
Supervisor Brower-Mr. Nace has assisted you through out this
process?
Mr. Dion-Yes. Tom Center from Nace's office.
Town Counsel Hafner-You are a Town Board can if you want grant
his application with only that one variance you could excise the other
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he would have to if he came in would have to satisfy the Town that,
that is the only variance that was applicable and have to prove it to
Dave Hatin before he could get the permit. So, if the Town Board
wanted they could do that or they could say come back in two weeks
and prove to us that you do not need anything more and you will
entertain only ninety two feet at that time when he can prove that he
does not need anything more. It really depends on you what you are
looking for.
Councilman Boor-I would be satisfied with Dave Hatin as long as, but
once it is done not
Councilman Brewer-But he cannot assure us of the other variance not
being needed until a year from now can he because then the soil is
not native for a year. So, he cannot assure us of that until
Councilman Boor-Well he cannot install it, right?
Councilman Brewer-It is predicated on the soil being there for a year
you said.
Director Round-I am not in a position to give you that answer.
Supervisor Brower-Do you have any clarification on that Bob at all?
Town Counsel Hafner-I would have to go back and look it is not
something we are prepared to we thought was going to be an issue
tonight.
Councilman Brewer-Can we do this approve the 92' contingent upon
verification of the soil being there for a year and give Bob two weeks
to
Town Counsel Hafner-If you approve just the 92' if he can when he
talks to his engineer the engineer comes up with a plan that only
needs that one variance all he would need to do then is go to Dave
Hatin and show him this is the system, this is all we need. If he
needs something more then he is going to have to come back again
and he will have to go through another public hearing because this is
the application that you have and you have acted.
Supervisor Brower-Let me make sure I understand this, we are not
going to make him wait a year before he puts his new system in
right?
Councilman Stec-It would depends on what Tom Nace comes up
with.
Councilman Boor-It depends on what Tom Nace says.
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Town Counsel Hafner-If his engineer we do not know what his
engineer is going to suggest, we do not know that, his engineer is
not here. His engineer is not here to tell us whether or not it is
possible.
Supervisor Brower-So it sounds like his engineer ought to come back
in my opinion.
Town Counsel Hafner-If that is the feeling of the Board that it is
nothing more then come back in two weeks with a plan.
Supervisor Brower-I do not have a problem with granting the 92'
from the well based on the elevations frankly but as far as the other
portion goes I would like to hear from an engineer.
Town Counsel Hafner-If that is your feeling then our
recommendation would be that you wait to act on the whole thing
though, wait until you are satisfied as to that part.
Supervisor Brower-Then we should table this until the 15th of
December at 7:00 P.M.
Town Counsel Hafner-You have already held the public hearing if you
close it all you need to do is hear from
Supervisor Brower-I will close the public hearing at this time and I
suggest we postpone this until December 15th, do I have a motion to
th at effect?
RESOLUTION TO TABLE ACTION ON SEWER VARIANCE
APPLICATION OF MARTIN DION
RESOLUTION NO. 41.2003 BOH
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR
ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Board of Health is hereby tabling
action on the proposed sewer variance application of Mr. Martin Dion
until December 15, 2003.
Duly adopted this 1st day of December, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
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RESOLUTION ADJOURNING QUEENSBURY BOARD OF
HEALTH
RESOLUTION NO. 42.2003 BOH
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS
ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Board of Health hereby adjourns its
meeting.
Duly adopted this 1st day of December, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
REGULAR TOWN BOARD SESSION
2.0 PUBLIC HEARINGS
2.1 Public Hearing - Queensbury Central Volunteer
Fire Company, Inc.'s Proposal To Purchase A Pierce
Custom Enforcer Pumper Truck and Authorizing
Incurrence Of Debt For Such Purchase
Notice Shown
Supervisor Brower-Queensbury Central Volunteer Fire Company has
requested the authorization to purchase a Pierce Custom Enforcer
Pump Truck for the sum of $357,500. which includes modification
costs. They are proposing using $185,000 from their restricted
vehicle fund which would include the 2004 contract payment and
they want to enter into a five year installment loan with Glens Falls
National Bank and Trust Company for the balance of $185,000.
John, good evening how are you. John has appeared before us at
another workshop prior to this and we thank you for that John, as I
recall you originally purchased twin pumpers correct?
Mr. John Kassebaum-Correct, what this will be replacing is a 86'
Quality Mac we have twins as I mentioned to the Town Board before
the beauty of buying twins is that it affords you the opportunity to
have two new trucks. The problem is that they are aging out at the
same time and originally according to the five year plan that we had
brought up in 2002 when we were negotiating contracts with the
Town Board. We had looked originally to replacement of one of the
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twins in 1993 due to a couple of different things one of which as you
know is the repairs to the tower. We have postponed that to the
point where now we will actually be receiving the replacement truck
in 2004. It will be replacing we are not looking to increase our fleet.
One of the twins from the moment that we will sign a contract with
Pierce we will be advertising the sale of that truck so we are not
looking to retain it. The truck that you, basically the information you
have you have already stated so I will not reiterate it. Basically the
price is all inclusive for everything for the truck right down to the
stripping and some of the miscellaneous equipment. I had dropped
off to the Comptroller's Office to Henry last week an official copy of
the letter we received from Glens Falls National Bank and Trust
Company approving us for a loan of up to two hundred thousand
dollars which we are looking at a hundred and eighty five thousand.
It will be a five year loan tax exempt. Basically right now all of our
business financially is done with Glens Falls National. So, we are
already approved for that based on the other business that we
currently handle with them. Other than that I will entertain any
questions that the Town Board may have.
Supervisor Brower-John, in our workshop sessions you did indicate
that your company was considering the possibility of eliminating one
of the additional truck possibly in the future and is that the other
twin?
Mr. Kassebaum-That is the other twin and it is still a possibility we
have not come to anything conclusive yet. Basically the line officers
will sit down discuss the viability of that project, then it will still have
to be approved by our company as a whole but we are looking at the
possibility that if and when the time would come, that, that truck
would be under replacement according to the five year plan that we
brought to the Town Board. Would we still be looking at replacing it
or would we be looking at the elimination of that piece of apparatus?
It is a possibility at this point it is something that is being floated out
there, nothing concrete is coming of it yet. I do not even believe
that the line has really had a chance to consider it and the company
has not yet, but it is something we are thinking of, it is just not a
concrete answer I can give you right now.
Supervisor Brower-Now, I know that during our workshop session I
questioned why we do not have a twenty year replacement schedule
instead of the replacement schedule that you proposed and you had
an answer for that, maybe you would like to speak to that.
Mr. Kassebaum-NFPA the standard used to be that twenty years for
the norm for replacement of apparatus depending on usage and you
are talking not only just the mileage a lot of times people think of
mileage and I know that question was asked of me when it came to
ambulances a lot of times you are looking at the mileage of when the
ambulances is being replaced. With engines you are talking about
not only the mileage itself but you are looking at the engine hours.
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We can very well travel maybe ten round trip miles to a fire but we
could be at that fire for hours, whether it be two, three or four.
What it was is the original norm was twenty years many of the
publications that are out today, Fire House Magazine, Fire
Engineering and some other now have actually brought it down to a
fifteen year. So, right now the school of thought is depending on the
usage of the truck you are looking at between a fifteen year and a
twenty year replacement. By the time that the new truck will arrive
and the other truck is gone if we can get the other truck sold before
the arrival of the new truck then we will certainly consider that as
well. But, by the time we are looking at that truck being gone we are
looking at, I guess if we use the term 319 which is one of the twins
the truck will already be 18 years old. So, we are pushing more on
the old standard of twenty years by the time the new truck would
arrive if that is the case of when that current twin leaves. So, we are
looking at an 18 year truck.
Supervisor Brower-Could you just remind the Board the mileage on
the twin pumpers in particular the one that you are intending to
replace.
Mr. Kassebaum-Unfortunately I do not have it right off the top of my
head its in the thirty thousand mile range. It is about thirty two to
thirty five thousand miles and again the mileage is a little misnomer
and unfortunately I do not have the engine hours on that truck. But,
the twins has been predominately not only in district trucks but they
are also predominately also our mutual aid trucks. So, the hours on
there and the miles on there are going to be considerable especially
if we are traveling somewhere and pumping in say Hudson Falls or
surrounding communities that we are called mutual aid for. But we
are somewhere in the thirty two to say thirty five thousand mile
range for probably both of the twins. 317 would probably actually
have more physical miles on it the engine hours maybe comparable.
But, from what our mechanics are telling us and we are still open for
debate on this, probably the 319 designated number would be the
truck that would be sold. But, again that is going to be up to the
decision of the company, the line and also our mechanic as far as
mechanically which one is going to be better off for us to keep for
now.
Councilman Stec-How much older do you think the other twin will be
before you trade it in or get rid of it?
Mr. Kassebaum-As we had mentioned to the Town when we were up
here for our negotiations for our current contract, the original
thought was to replace one of the twins now and then in 2006 I
believe we were putting on a replacement for our tower. So, the
twin was not even a consideration for us until after the purchase of a
new tower. At this point we are looking at keeping the twin for as
long as possible or the possibility of not replacing the twin I would
say the next truck to be replaced which would be currently what is
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called our 316 probably would not be until at least 2008 or 2009, but
right now we are looking at, at least waiting another if I had to say
off the top of my head probably at least five years before we even
consider another engine, and maybe more. One of the things that I
did bring up not only at the negotiations then but also at the
workshop as you all know was that originally we had not planned on
financing the engine because we knew due to the considerable price
of what tower trucks are going for now days we knew we were going
to be financing the cost of a new tower. The original thought was is
that through the truck fund moneys we would be purchasing the
engine. We are obviously financing the truck it is our hope if we can
do the engine and then when we come back in 2006 we are going to
have to see where we sit for the new tower at that point too. But the
twin itself if we were to still replace it would probably not be till
almost 2008 to 2010.
Councilman Stec-Is it possible that that replacement of the second
twin could involve the purchase of the new tower, you trade in the
second twin toward or you sell the second twin towards the payment
for the new tower?
Mr. Kassebaum-Anything is possible. Had it been thought in that
vein I do not know. But the thought would be is that if we did not
replace the twin it would be sold somehow. Whether it be to the
corporation that is going to be looking at bidding out our tower truck
anything is possible I could not tell you definitively if that would be
what we would do or we would still try to sell it privately. As you
know when we ended up sending out last truck that we purchased
the truck that was replacing it a 76' Mac there was no market for that
truck because it was much older and actually ended up here at that
Town of Queensbury. It depends on what the market is. A lot of
times trucks of that age as we have mentioned before rural
departments are looking for them but rural departments are also
looking for some times bigger tanks. So, you never know what the
market is going to show. So, if it is something that maybe could go
toward the tower if we are going to get rid of it sure, that is always a
possibility.
Supervisor Brower-The capacity of the new vehicle you are
suggesting how many gallons of water will that hold?
Mr. Kassebaum-Fifteen hundred gallon a minute pump and a seven
hundred and fifty gallon water tank.
Supervisor Brower-And that compares to
Mr. Kassebaum-That would be comparable to the engine that we
purchased in 2001. Currently our engines have been standardized
until the purchase of the 2001 engine designated 318 we had always
gone with a fifteen hundred gallon a minute pump, five hundred
gallon tanks. With the purchase of engine 318 we decided to up that
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to seven fifty for a couple of different reasons. Number one it was a
recommendation of a lot of the manufacturers sure you get hit for a
little bit bigger tank but also it gives you a little, it affords you a little
more opportunity for water capacity things like the Northway places
that you are not immediately hydranted at. Queensbury Center is
fortunate that we are mostly hydranted so we are not too worried
about it, but we do hit areas of our district that are not hydranted
and the seven hundred and fifty gallons gives you a little bit better
option. That is what we are looking at with this truck would be
fifteen hundred gallon a minute pump with seven hundred and fifty
gallon tank.
Supervisor Brower-You are arguably the busiest company in the
Town, Fire Company, how many calls did you make last year?
Mr. Kassebaum-Last year alone, unfortunately the last figure I still
have bouncing around with me in my car, I can go back to 2001 we
were the busiest company in the Town in 2002 what I can speak
though apples to apples is that of fire call alone and as you know
lately what has been happening the fire service has been doing ems
runs. Originally, Queensbury Central was one of two companies in
the town that was brought in to go strictly Monday through Friday
priority one calls six am to six pm. We are now going 24/7 but just
going on the fire call totals alone from 2001 and every year we have
considerably increased Queensbury Central accounted for seven
hundred and ninety eight fire calls no ems out of sixteen hundred
and thirty three runs or in other words for 2001 Queensbury Central
accounted for 490/0 of the total fire runs in the Town. Currently I
believe and Joe help me with this I think we are up to nine hundred
and sixty calls.
Joe...-About nine seventy
Mr. Kassebaum-For 2003 and that is going only 24/7 ems since about
I think September
Unknown-July
Mr. Kassebaum-July of 2003 was when we started going 24/7 for
priority one calls. We are up to nine hundred and seventy calls
already. So, most likely we will make over a thousand, which of
course is only going to increase our volume again for 2004 because
that way we will be starting out a fresh new year doing 24/7 ems as
well as all the fire calls. Currently we have about twenty five square
miles we cover and of that from figures I had gotten from the
development office about two years ago we had somewhere in the
ball park of twelve to thirteen thousand residents in the Town in that
twenty five square miles. Not including what we get during the day
for businesses and certainly during the summer for Great Escape and
everything else.
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
15
Supervisor Brower-Any other questions from Town Board Members at
this time before I open the public hearing? Ok. John.
Mr. Kassebaum-Thank you.
Supervisor Brower-At this time I would like to open the public hearing
and ask any interested citizens that would like to comment on the
proposal before us this evening to come forward and simply state
your name and address for the record and would anyone care to
comment during the public hearing? Seeing none I guess I will ask
you to come back up John. I do not know, I am going to be very
honest with you about my only concern about this purchase. It is
less than twenty years but more importantly you are at a point
where you are not even sure yourself if you might get rid of the other
truck eventually. At this point in time you wouldn't probably make
that decision until later in 2000, 2008 or 2010. I guess my question
and concern is why couldn't you keep both vehicles and run them
both for another couple of years and if one breaks down you have
the other one to back it up. If you truly thinking you can get by with
one as opposed to two why wouldn't that satisfy the need?
Mr. Kassebaum-What we are looking at is number one and we have
been in here when we were in for the tower for the repairs to the
tower. As you know our mechanical line items have grown
increasingly this year mainly due to the fact of the fleet that we are
running the older trucks the 86's some of the other trucks we have
had some problems with due to age and use. We had originally
thought that we were going to maybe, we had looked at 2003 for the
replacement we certainly thought that maybe at some point would
these last a little bit longer but due to the mechanical problems we
have been having with both of the twins is that the time to replace it
for mechanics and safety issues too was to replace it now. The
reason why we looking at not replacing another engine in the future
is something that needs to be considered is that not only would it we
have to decide number one would it affect our ISO rating. All the
reports that the Town Board's in the past have condoned to look into
fire and ems whether it be the original long time ago Proper Report
or then the one that was originally done I think then again about ten
years ago or so, have all said that Queensbury Central as far as
Queensbury Central protection district should have four engines one
tower X amount of pieces of apparatus. We are trying to decide
number one is that A is it feasible for us to run with four or three
engines how will that affect the ISO rating for the people in our
protection district and is it feasible for us on the base of money,
mechanics and everything else. So, if the answer is, is that why are
we replacing this truck is because we are running into mechanical
problems with the twins. That is why we are looking at our
mechanics which are better qualified to decide for us which truck at
this point if we needed to keep one around would we keep and that
is why the other one would then be the one would be replaced. If
that is the engine 319 designation that is where it is going to go. I
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
16
think too, I the thing is that a twenty year number is a number that
has been out there as a norm or has been one that has been
bantered about and there are lot of places, I am not going to lie to
you that you can get away with an engine for probably twenty or
sometimes thirty years. You have got to look at the usage of the
truck. What is it running to, you know, are our trucks being more
abused going to ems now or are they being abused when we were
still doing seven or eight hundred fire runs. Abuse is not the right
term but they are getting used, they are out on the roads sometimes
for six, seven times a day. They get used. We are here certainly
with the construction that is going on in our district at least and that
is the only thing I can speak on that volume is going to increase. As
the Cedars builds up and more of the buildings here on Bay Road
build up and certainly housing has not slowed down in our district,
we are going to be out more and more. That is going to be not only
the ems runs that are new to us but the fire runs are going to
increase as well. That is going to put more miles on the trucks. That
is where too, looking ahead to be pro active we are looking, all right
lets take the mechanically less feasible truck and replace that in 2004
and that is where the decision is going need to be made in the future
what is the feasibility of keep that other engine. That is why I said it
is a possibility right now that we would be getting rid of it. I cannot
sit here and tell you absolutely that we will or will not. But, at the
same time I think we are looking at it in a whole...
Councilman Stec-John, do you have an idea what the resale value is
right now for 319 that you might reasonably expect? So we have an
idea of
Mr. Kassebaum-We had thought somewhere in the ball park of I
think somewhere between twenty five and thirty five if we were
lucky, twenty five, thirty five thousand. It depends who is going to
offer it and what they are looking for. Some people may come in
with a lower figure than that. You know certainly that money would
go back into obviously the sale, the purchase of a new truck. But,
we do not have any hard core facts right now because we have been
reluctant to put it on advertising until we actually had a contract
signed for the new truck. So, I would say if I had to take a real
guess, twenty five to thirty five would probably be an estimate. But I
do not know exactly, it depends on who wants it. One mans junk is
another mans treasure. The truck is in very good shape as far as if a
rural department was looking for it with minimal runs but you are not
going to get a very busy company looking at it because of the miles,
the hours and the structural things if there is rust, which there is. It
depends on who wants it as far as what we are going to get for it.
The problem is a lot of the departments that may want it may not
have that twenty five thousand dollars. So, they maybe looking at
buying it even less. It depends.
Supervisor Brower-Further questions from Town Board Members?
Ok. Thank you John. I will close the public hearing at this time.
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
17
(7:48pm) You know I struggle with some of these requests because
Queensbury Central certainly is if not the busiest damn close to one
of the busiest companies in town. We have some very dedicated
volunteers that truly commit a great deal of time and effort to
community service. When they come forward for a request like this
truck I really want to say yes. But, when I think about the fact that
you have got two vehicles admittedly you may not need one of them
and you could get by with a few more years of alternating them
whatever you have to do. I find it difficult to approve a purchase
when it is earlier than twenty years. That saddens me and I know
some of you guys probably think baloney you know I do not believe
that but it is true. I do not know how else to say it but I, on one
hand I have the greatest respect for you in the world on the other
hand I think maybe some of these purchases are too early. But you
are not the only company that has requested trucks early. You will
not be the last I am sure. I am going to find it difficult to support
this, this evening, but none the less I am only one vote as I am
reminded occasionally. So, with that I will ask the Board if they
would care to take action on this, this evening.
RESOLUTION APPROVING QUEENSBURY CENTRAL
VOLUNTEER FIRE COMPANY, INCo'S PROPOSAL TO PURCHASE
A PIERCE CUSTOM ENFORCER PUMPER TRUCK AND
AUTHORIZING INCURRENCE OF DEBT FOR SUCH PURCHASE
RESOLUTION NO.: 496. 2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr.Tim Brewer
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury and the Queensbury Central Volunteer Fire
Company, Inc. (Fire Company) have entered into an Agreement for fire protection
services, which Agreement sets forth a number of terms and conditions including a
condition that the Fire Company will not purchase or enter into any binding contract to
purchase any piece of apparatus, equipment, vehicles, real property, or make any
improvements that would require the Fire Company to acquire a loan or mortgage or use
money placed in a "vehicles fund" without prior approval of the Queensbury Town
Board, and
WHEREAS, the Fire Company has advised the Town Board that it wishes to
purchase a Pierce Custom Enforcer Pumper Truck for a sum not to exceed $357,500
including modification costs, and
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
18
WHEREAS, the Fire Company plans on paying for the Pumper Truck by using
$185,000 in funds from its Restricted Vehicle Fund, including the Town's 2004 contract
payment, and entering into a five (5) year installment loan with Glens Falls National
Bank and Trust Company for $185,000, and
st . .
WHEREAS, on December 1 , 2003, the Town Board held a publIc hearIng
concerning the Fire Company's proposed purchase and debt incurrence and heard all
interested persons, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board feels that this new vehicle will provide additional
safety protection for the Town, and
WHEREAS, the Town wishes to adopt a Resolution authorizing the purchase of
the Pumper Truck and incurrence of debt by the Fire Company,
N OW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves of the
Queensbury Central Volunteer Fire Company, Inc.' s proposal to purchase a Pierce
Custom Enforcer Pumper Truck for a sum not to exceed $357,500 including modification
costs, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes the Fire Company to use
$185,000 in the Fire Company's Restricted Vehicle Fund, including the Town's 2004
contract payment, toward the purchase, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further approves of the incurrence of$185,000
in debt by the Queensbury Central Volunteer Fire Company, Inc. for such purchase with
the understanding that the Town Board is relying upon the Fire Company's assurances
that the Pumper Truck is serviceable and suitable for its long-term intended use,
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that a retired pumper truck will be sold or traded at fair market
value and the proceeds will be deposited to the Restricted Vehicle Fund if sold, or will
reduce the amount of debt if traded in, and
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
19
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that debt service payments for the new Pumper Truck may be
charged to the Restricted Vehicle Fund during 2004 only, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town of Queensbury does not guarantee the debt with
Glens Falls National Bank and Trust Company on behalf of the Fire Company nor does
the Town Board create or intend to create any assumption on the part of the Town of
Queensbury of any obligation or liability for the financing, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town
Supervisor and/or Town Comptroller to take any action necessary to effectuate all terms
of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer
NOES Mr. Brower
ABSENT: None
Discussion held before vote: Councilman Turner-John do these
trucks come with an rust protection? Mr. Kassebaum-Ten year no
rust, ten year paint... Councilman Turner-The old one did not have
that one it? Mr. Kassebaum-I do not believe so. Councilman Turner-
My point is, if it is twenty years old it is time to get rid of it I think
because the value is still there and if you hang onto it any longer you
are going to lose money on it. Supervisor Brower-You are only going
to get twenty five or thirty five thousand of a used one anyway what
is two years going to do to it make it worth fifteen? Councilman
Turner-Maybe, but ten thousand is ten thousand. Supervisor Brower-
Granted used vehicles, used ambulances for that matter don't have a
great deal of value. Vote taken. Supervisor Brower-Thanked John
for his openness and the information you provided us right through
the process.
202 PUBLIC HEARING - Proposed Local Law To Amend
Queensbury Town Code Chapter 136, Article XXIV,
"Establishment Of Sewer Rents", To Decrease Annual
Charges For Hiland Park Sewer Districts and Establish
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
20
And Impose Sewer Rents and Set Annual Charges For
Route 9 Sewer District
NOTICE SHOWN
Supervisor Brower-Ok. This public hearing is regarding the
establishment of sewer rents for the Hiland Park Sewer District and
other sewer districts within the Town of Queensburyo First off start
with Central Queensbury Quaker Road Sewer District for residential
properties from zero to thirteen thousand gallons of meter water usage,
there will be a charge of fifteen dollars quarterly for each residential
unit, plus three dollars and ten cents per thousand gallons of water
consumption in excess of thirteen thousand gallons per quarter, billed
on a quarterly basiso However for Non Residential Properties, the
charge will be five dollars and forty five cents per thousand gallons of
water consumption based on water meter readings, billed on a quarterly
basiso Annual charges for the Queensbury Technical Park Sewer
District will be for all occupied properties will be three dollars and fifty
cents per thousand gallons of water consumption, billed on a quarterly
basiso Annual charges for the Hiland Park Sewer District, for
Residential Properties from zero to thirteen thousand gallons of
metered water usage, we will charge twenty five dollars quarterly for
each residential unit plus four dollars and fifty cents per thousand
gallons which is a decrease from the six dollars and sixty cents per
thousand gallons previouslyo In excess of thirteen thousand gallons per
quarter billed on a quarterly basiso For Non Residential properties it
will go from nine dollars to six dollars per thousand gallons of water
consumption billed on a quarterly basiso Annual charges for the
Pershing-Ashley-Coolidge Sewer District for all occupied properties will
be three dollars and fifty cents per thousand gallons of water
consumption billed on a quarterly basiso Annual charges for the South
Queensbury-Queensbury Avenue Sewer District for all occupied
properties will be three dollars and fifty cents per thousand gallons of
water consumption based on current water meter readings billed on a
quarterly basiso Annual charges pursuant to the Route 9 Sewer District
for all occupied properties will be four dollars per thousand gallons of
water consumption as indicated by the current water meter readings,
billed on a quarterly basiso Those are the proposed changes, Mike Shaw
the Deputy Director of Wastewater is here this evening, Mike what do
you have to attribute the reductions to?
Deputy Director of Wastewater Mike Shaw-Certainly Dennis you read
off the whole sewer rent lawo Basically there is two changes this year in
the sewer rent law and those two changes are to Hiland Park lowering
the rate and to setting a rate for the new Route 9 Sewer District which
started construction just todayo The reason for lowering the Hiland
Park Sewer District over the years Hiland Park Sewer District has seen
growth and over the last couple years of substantial growth which
allows us to lower the rates which we are charging the district. A lot of
the dollars we try to recoup in that district are not only for treatment
but are for maintenance type things and as the sewer flows have
increased there and the number of residences have increased that has
not changed really the maintenance we do with it. So, we are enable to
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
21
have a broader base to raise our fees we needo We need to pay those, for
those maintenance feeso It allows us to lower the charges we have for
the sewer rentso
Supervisor Brower-Thank you Mikeo We may call on you here when we
open the public hearing depending on the amount of public
participation we have, which so far this evening has been limitedo At
this point in time I would like to open the public hearing on the sewer
proposed sewer rents that the town is proposing to charge for the
coming year and we are prepared to entertain any comments from the
publico Would anyone care to address the Board regarding the proposal
before us? Hearing none I will close the pubic hearing (7:56 PoMo) I
will ask Mike, if you have any further questions or any further
comment or Board Members do you have further questions of Michael?
Councilman Turner-Michael when you establish the Route 9 Sewer
District at four dollars per thousand gallons of water consumption was
that amount in there then the thought then?
Deputy Shaw-During the map, plan and report actually that is slightly
higher than the map, plan and report. During design, it is just fifty
cents per thousand gallonso During design we have found that we are
going to have probably three different ways in which we are going to
treat odor and sewage as far a chemical wise goeso That is going to add
additional dollars to that O&M and when you start a district off it is
more a shot in the dark of what you thing the O&M's are going to be
and then after a couple of years more likely I will probably be back here
to adjust that rateo I felt that three dollars and fifty cents might not
cover our treatment costs, our costs for the added treatment for the
odorso
Supervisor Brower-Any further questions of Mike? Ok. Thank you
Mike I appreciate it. Do I have a motion by any Board Member?
RESOLUTION ENACTING LOCAL LAW NOo 4 OF 2003 TO
AMEND QUEENSBURY TOWN CODE CHAPTER 136, ARTICLE
XXIV ENTITLED "ESTABLISHMENT OF SEWER RENTS" TO
DECREASE ANNUAL CHARGES FOR HILAND PARK SEWER
DISTRICT AND ESTABLISH AND IMPOSE SEWER RENTS AND
SET ANNUAL CHARGES FOR ROUTE 9 SEWER DISTRICT
RESOLUTION NO. 497.2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
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WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board wishes to consider adoption of Local
Law No.: 4 of2003 to amend Queensbury Town Code Chapter 136, Article XXIV entitled
"Establishment of Sewer Rents," which Local Law would decrease the annual sewer rent
rate in the Hiland Park Sewer District and establish and impose sewer rents and set the
annual sewer rent rate for properties within the Route 9 Sewer District, and
WHEREAS, this legislation is authorized in accordance with New York State
Municipal Home Rule Law 910, Town Law Article 16 and General Municipal Law Article
14-F, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board duly held a public hearing on December 1 st, 2003 and
heard all interested persons, and
WHEREAS, a copy of the proposed Local Law has been presented at this meeting
and is in form approved by Town Counsel,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby enacts Local Law No.: 4 of
2003 to amend Queensbury Town Code Chapter 136, Article XXIV entitled "Establishment
of Sewer Rents" to decrease the annual sewer rent rate in the Hiland Park Sewer District and
establish and impose sewer rents and set the annual sewer rent rate for properties within the
Route 9 Sewer District as presented at this meeting, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Queensbury
Town Clerk to file the Local Law with the New York State Secretary of State in accordance
with the provisions of the Municipal Home Rule Law and acknowledges that the Local Law
will take effect immediately upon filing with the Secretary of State.
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor
NOES
None
ABSENT: None
2.3 PUBLIC HEARING - Proposed Rezoning For Rick
Meath, Located At the Corner of West Mountain
Road and Gurney Lane From SFR-1A to SR-1A
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
23
NOTICE SHOWN
Supervisor Brower-Mr. Meath is here, Mr. Jarrett Good evening.
Mr. Tom Jarrett-Tom Jarrett of Jarrett and Martin Engineers and Rick
Meath representing Ski and Shore Corp. the owners of the property.
We are here tonight requesting a rezoning of a seventeen point eight
acre parcel at the intersection of West Mountain Road and Gurney
Lane, which is currently zoned as SFR1A, we are requesting a
rezoning to SR1A for the sole reason that we would like to cluster.
We are allowed what we believe are fifteen lots on that parcel, single
family detached homes which we would be allowed to build under
either zoning proposal. We would like to do is cluster it for a number
of reasons I can go through those reasons why we think the rezoning
is beneficial. Number one we reduce traffic impacts on West
Mountain Road especially. We would be providing one curb cut as
you can see on our diagram on the board as opposed to up to nine
under current zoning, what current zoning would allow. We would
avoid development on essentially all the slopes on the property
where as under current zoning we would have to develop on some
slopes, some of the slopes up to fifteen percent. We would increase
the buffer between the houses and the Northway which we think is
beneficial, reduce noise impacts. We can provide a green space
corridor from Gurney Lane into the Rush Pond CEA which I know has
been identified as a goal for the Town in the Comprehensive Plan.
We think we can provide that corridor which will allow pedestrian and
bike path into the CEA. We would maximize green space and open
space over all on the parcel. We would reduce storm water impacts
and we would increase the set back from the CEA, increase the
buffer to the CEA improving that set back. We are here tonight only
asking for a rezoning because we want to cluster for no other reason.
The Planning Board rendered an opinion to you and did go through
the SEQRA Review, we wish to point out that you saw a vote in the
Planning Board Minutes of three to two. If you read those minutes I
think you will see that no one really objected to the project. There
was a lot of discussion regarding the best procedure to follow but no
one objected to the project.
Councilman Stec-Before you go on Tom it is a seven member board
there are five present three to two is majority of those present but it
is not the majority of the board. So, we are talking a
recommendation here so its,
Councilman Brewer-It is the majority of the board, not the quorum.
Director Round-I am going to defer Marilyn Ryba is here and Marilyn
is handling the project for our office. Marilyn if you want to
comment I think three, two didn't was not an action.
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
24
Senior Planning Marilyn Ryba-That is right because we need a
majority of the entire board not just those present.
Councilman Stec-So, we do not have an official recommendation we
have three out of five.
Mr. Jarrett-And the two that voted against it really were not against
the project it was on procedural questions they voted against it.
Councilman Stec-You mentioned that we would be increasing the
buffer to the CSEA?
Mr. Jarrett-The CEA.
Councilman Stec-Well, I would like to do that sometimes. CEA my
apologies.
Mr. Jarrett-To the south that is correct.
Councilman Stec-Do you have numbers for that?
Mr. Jarrett-Actually we don't and you will see from the two diagrams
that are posted, one by us and one by the Planning Staff that the
CEA boundary looks different and we can't get on the neighboring
property to really do a survey to establish exactly where the CEA
boundary is, so we are speculating. We are basing it on the
topography that was available to us. I am not sure where the
Planning Staff got there ...
Councilman Stec-Well, the dark green space between the property
line and that bottom lot you have an idea how far that is on your
green, the distance from the property line to the south to the closest
lot to the closest line.
Mr. Jarrett-In our cluster provision?
Unknown-One hundred and twenty to a hundred and fifty feet. You
are saying to the original...existing property line correct.
Town Clerk-We have got to get these gentlemen on the mic.
Mr. Bob Hulls with the firm of Jarrett, Martin-Now just a question Mr.
Stec, you are talking from the distance from the light color to the
property line here?
Councilman Stec-Yes.
Mr. Hulls-Approximately one hundred and twenty feet to a hundred
and fifty feet approximately.
Councilman Stec-That was my question.
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
25
Councilman Boor-I want to stray for a minute, and then we will
refocus in on what you are doing, or what you are proposing. First of
all I think Mr. Meath has been very patient over the years I know you
have had the property for awhile and I believe when we were doing
the rezoning for the Town there was a recommendation that we go
office professional and I really believe that is the most appropriate
zoning for this parcel. There is a lot of reasons why but I guess the
greatest reminder from my colleagues here is the anguish that we
went through with Cracker Barrels and the Red Lions for the
Greenway North area. I cannot even begin to remember how many
times people would say gee, if we got to do this over again we would
never put homes this close to the Northway. You know I would like
to think that we learned something from that. I look at Exit 20 and I
look at the jail and I look at the Great Escape their expansion and I
look at that two lane bridge and I say to my self is it really realistic to
believe that, that bridge is going to stay like that? Is the best use of
that property to put homes there and I know that the objections to
office professional were from some residents in the area. I think it is
a logical leap to say gee it is commercial, that is the last thing I want
near my neighborhood. But the reality is in an office professional you
are talking about businesses that are professional. Typically the
hours that they conduct their business are the same hours that
people are at work so any traffic going in and out of these places is
during the day time. At night they are relatively vacant there is no
impact to the neighborhood. When you go office professional the
Planning Board has greater latitude with site plan review. They can
say you know what we want you to leave this amount of trees we
want this size buffer. When you go to residential you are talking
about many individual owners and over time the number of trees that
they cut down and what they do is really something that the Board
the Town can't have an influence over. So, these homeowners who I
do not want to I believe their concern was the quietness of the area,
the notion that houses is better really I do not believe is the case. I
think that you are going to have increased highway noise if you put
residential homes in there. I go back to the Greenway North
situation, I hope we would have learned something that putting
homes that close to an intersection an interchange is not a good
idea. I do not think that we should penalize Mr. Meath and say no
you cannot build anything there, but the bottom line that is not a
great area to build homes. That bridge is essentially going to be
expanded there is going to be clover leafs or whatever those exits
are going to be increased. There is a lot of traffic there. I think you
know the fact of the matter is you are not going to be able to break
ground no matter what we determine tonight, this winter. The
Planning Board is going to be meeting on Wednesday and they are
going to be talking about I will get back onto point, what you are
asking for now, they are going to be talking about clustering. Is it
appropriate in SFR1, I believe I am not sure, Counselor Chris can
help me out here I believe you have to go PUD to cluster don't you or
no?
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
26
Director Round-In SFR zone, clustering is prohibited.
Councilman Boor-That is what talking about, so, when you said that,
they could cluster in either one of these zones you cannot.
Mr. Jarrett-No, no, no I said you could build single family residential.
Councilman Boor-I thought you said you would cluster in either one
of these zones.
Mr. Jarrett-No, that is why we are rezoning is to do the clustering.
Councilman Boor-The other thing and I don't think that this is where
you are going that the zoning that you are requesting would allow
duplexes, whether or not you say you are going to do it or not is, I
take you at your word. But it does allow duplexes and I think the
Board needs to be aware of that also. But, once again my greatest
concern is, is residential really the best use of this property? I think
we missed the boat when we did not allow it to go office
professional. I will leave it at that.
Town Counsel Hafner-It is already single family residential, it is
already is zoned that.
Councilman Boor-And they are seeking the type that would allow
clustering and duplexes.
Supervisor Brower-Well actually I think Roger is referring to a
previous effort by Peggy. Peggy Meath came forward for office
professional zone, change in zone from single family residential that
was probably two years ago.
Councilman Stec-Besides the clustering and the duplexes, Chris could
you summarize the use differences between the two zones we are
talking about?
Director Round-The two elements that are different Marilyn has
prepared the staff notes and can walk you through the process that
we followed and maybe let some light in. I do not know whether you
want to go to the public and get some feed back and then have
Marilyn give you some information. Your choice.
Supervisor Brower-Actually, I think I would like to open the public
hearing and here what the public has to say then I will have Marilyn
come forward and then I will have you gentlemen come back up.
So, at this time I will open the public hearing to interested parties
that care to comment on the proposed change in zone before us for
the property in question from single family residential to one acre to
suburban residential one acre, SR1A. Would anyone care to comment
during this public hearing? Quite group tonight. I think I will leave
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27
the public hearing open and I will ask Marilyn Ryba is she would
come forward, that way your comments will be on the record.
Sr. Planner Marilyn Ryba-Good evening, perhaps you could just
repeat that last question that you had and then I can.
Councilman Stec-Summarizing the differences between single family
residential uses and suburban residential uses, what additional uses
are included in SR, that might, the idea what might be objectionable.
Sr. Planning Marilyn Ryba-The additional uses in suburban residential
would be the duplex and the multi family, day care centers are
allowed, cemeteries, places of Worship and Schools. The single
family residential is primarily just a strictly a single family residential
not allowing the duplexes and the multi family.
Councilman Stec-So, if someone was concerned about a convenience
store that is not on the table with this rezoning.
Councilman Boor-Nor under office professional.
Councilman Stec-Right. I did not mean to step on office professional
either. I agree with you Roger my preference would not have homes
in there. Bear in mind that we do not own the property.
Sr. Planner Ryba-Currently it is SFR so it would be single family
residential only.
Supervisor Brower-Without a zone change.
Sr. Planner Ryba-Without a zone change.
Supervisor Brower-Let me ask you this, Tom, you are the engineer
for Mr. Meath I assume correct of record, how do you address the
noise discussion. I know Hidden Hills when the Town, there was a
discussion of the potential noise discussion about the Great Escape
the Town had noise monitors all over town the only one that failed
the federal guidelines was the one at Hidden Hills because of the
Northway and yet no one in Hidden Hills has ever complained about
noise, to me or other Board Members. So, obviously the chose to live
there, they enjoy living there, apparently the noise is not a factor to
them. Do, you have any comment on noise?
Mr. Jarrett-We discussed it in length internally regarding this proposal
and the Meaths obviously did feel that some kind of commercial use,
professional office was appropriate. Some time ago when they went
for the rezoning in light of the fact that the residents came out
strongly not in favor of that and it is currently zoned for SFR1Acre we
did want to go for the rezoning because we feel that clustering allows
a better buffer to the Northway and we think that will make it an
attractive location for homes. There is a potential for multi family
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homes their duplexes, they are not interested in doing that. They
want detached homes we felt clustering was the way to minimize
that noise impact and frankly if they cannot sell the properties it is
their risk. So, we felt it was a good proposal, a reasonable proposal
and does a lot for the Town as well as for obviously the owners of
the property. Because we do get a corridor into the Rush Pond CEA,
we do increase the buffer we increase the green space we minimize
i nfrastructu re req u i rements.
Councilman Boor-Let me ask you this Tom, the applicant is right
there but since you are at the microphone I will ask you,
Mr. Jarrett-He can jump in as need be.
Councilman Boor-If I could convince this Board to go office
professional would that be something you would be interested in?
Mr. Meath-Yes.
Councilman Boor-Ok.
Mr. Jarrett-He jumped in fast.
Mr. Meath-Do you want to think about it for a while?
Councilman Boor-I cannot say it strong enough that bridge is going
to get bigger.
Supervisor Brower-Well, actually Roger you do bring up a very valid
point, I think Office Professional might be a good use for that
property but you do recall the opposition you received from
Residents at that meeti ng.
Councilman Boor-I recall it. I remember the basis of the opposition
and I think if they really look hard at what is going to have a great
impact on their lives I believe however many homes that are out
there is going to be a greater impact.
Supervisor Brower-Certainly, if going Office Professional you have
less of an impact on the school district although it would be the Lake
George School District.
Councilman Boor-But I mean businesses would survive if the exit
ramp was fifty feet from them, a new exit ramp, a home I just do not
know.
Supervisor Brower-Marilyn, maybe we could ask you to give us some
input at this point from your perspective.
Sr. Planner Ryba-Well, in doing the review there are several
questions that are on the application and questions that the Board
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needs to answer in making its decision. So, that is really the basis to
start from. But, I think one of the more important questions is how
are the wider interests of the community being served by the
proposal and when we ask that question we look at the
Comprehensive Land Use Plan and the Comprehensive Land Use Plan
1998 adoption very clearly stated that a transition zone and
recommended in suburban residential. Back when the proposal came
in for professional office that was also considered a transition zone
and would be appropriate. But there is that direct link and that is
why one of the reason I think the rezoning requests have been made
a couple of times now. So, that's really one of the major points the
other is that I believe and Craig Brown is here our Zoning
Administrator so he can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that
there is some housing that is allowed in the PO district as well. He
does not have anything in front of him, Chris does and Chris can help
us out then. But, the other thing is the density requirement is the
same whether you have single family whether you have duplexes
whether you have multi family. What I mean by that is that if there
were fifteen housing units allowed it would be fifteen units whether it
was duplexes, that does not mean fifteen duplexes it means fifteen
units. So, that was a miss-conception I think that some people had
at the Planning Board Meeting. There was a question about the
critical environmental area and the measurement what we pulled up
on our geographic information system is a measurement which is five
hundred feet from the four hundred and thirty four foot contour.
But, that map may not really display everything correctly and we do
need to be out in the field to measure it and we always say that with
our mapping is that whether it is wetlands, whether it is critical
environmental area that the best measurement is a field
measurement. This parcel line sets the other thing up, it is helpful
but it may not be exact.
Director Round-Marilyn, I have the chart in front of me. Profession
Office zone does allow for duplex as well as multi family dwellings
which might be an apartment building, allows for cemetery, care
center, health related facilities, hospital, nursery, place of worship,
professional offices, public buildings as well as schools. It is not just
limited to professional offices and that is why you see a mix of
residences as well as professional offices on Bay Road fore instance.
They are seen as compatible uses when done correctly.
Councilman Boor-I look at it as the perfect transition in an area like
this.
Sr. Planner Ryba-This proposal the Planning Board did look at in their
environmental analysis in their SEQRA analysis, what would be the
greatest impacts and the greatest impacts strangely enough are
single family residential. In terms of traffic so that's certainly
something to think about. I do not know what else to tell you I did
not want to go through the whole thing I just wanted to try highlight
some of the major concerns. Another one was school age children,
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30
looking at the Census information and I put this in my notes as well
that their are greater number of children under age 18 and owner
occupied households then renter occupied households. Not that
duplex necessarily maybe all rental half of it might be single might be
in owned and half might be rented out, so you do not really know
until the market they propose or built or whatever what would come
out of that and for that matter single family housing could be rented
out as well.
Supervisor Brower-Give me that again the rented properties have a
greater number of children under the age of 18?
Sr. Planner Ryba-Yes. I am sorry few number, I am sorry.
Supervisor Brower-So, the rental units are fewer, ok, Thank you.
Sr. Planner Ryba-The census shows thirty seven point four percent in
owner occupied households and twenty six point seven in renter
occupied households. Not a major difference, but still greater. Any
other questions?
Supervisor Brower-Well, as our housing officer, with your housing
officer hat on for a minute how do you view this as a housing officer?
Sr. Planner Ryba-Well, I think the Housing Officer position is more
one of looking at fair housing issues so this is not a fair housing
issue.
Councilman Boor-It is not a fair question.
Supervisor Brower-Put you on the hot seat. Ok. Thank you.
Well you know the location to the Northway is a factor certainly I
have always thought that would be a good spot for professional
office utilization. Although we did have a number of residents in the
area that came out opposed to it, that might be the greatest
utilization for that property.
Councilman Boor-I think the problem is, is that we did not do a very
good job of educating the public and I think as Marilyn pointed out
the greatest impact on traffic are residential, they are not office
professional. I think we need to do a better job of letting people
understand that. If impact traffic, noise is the real concern housing
is actually going to be the worst common denominator. Housing is
going to be the most adversely affected should expansion of the
interchange takes place as opposed to businesses. So, I trumpeted
long enough on that, I think everybody knows how I feel.
Councilman Stec-Chris, in the file from the previous discussion when
we were entertaining briefly the office professional rezone do you
have a list of people that expressed their concerns, if we put
something together to educate what the issue is and why we are
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thinking the way we are thinking do we have a list of people to send
hat to that would benefit from that?
Director Round-I do not know if we have those specific individuals we
have a very good record of the public attendance of those
informational sessions but I think it was mostly the Gurney Lane, Old
West Mountain Road the neighborhood directly adjacent to these
properties. If you are talking about can we do targeted mailing sure
you could.
Councilman Stec-Only because this is the second time that we have
talked about this in as many years it is not fair to the public or to the
applicant to keep bouncing it back and forth from one potential
rezoning to another and I think if we laid it out for people this is why
we are where we are that we may get some resolution here that
everyone can live with. So, if we could do that and mail that to all
the addresses on Gurney lane, Old West Mountain Road.
Director Round-I would ask the applicant what they are looking to do
because they have been trying to hit a moving target to date.
Mr. Jarrett-It sounds like we would be interested in pursuing that.
Mr. Meath-I am a little hesitant because I am only here on behalf of
a corporation which owns this property and I have other stockholders
I would have to talk to. But obviously there was some interest a
couple of years ago so I assume they would all still have some
interest in it today.
Supervisor Brower-Frankly, I don't have a problem with clustered
housing proposal either. I do think the professional office might be a
better utilization of the property.
Councilman Brewer-Is that really our role to tell a developer what he
should do with his property?
Councilman Boor-No, it is to protect the community.
Mr. Jarrett-We are telling you that based on your comments we are
interested in that..
Councilman Brewer-But as a town wide plan not necessarily as one
particular parcel.
Councilman Stec-But, this particular parcel was talked about in the
Comprehensive Plan. Can this be
Director Round-I am sure there is a question there. In a general
sense you are the role of the Town Government is to layout the land
use plan I think you are struggling with how and what level of detail
and discuss it but I think you have a cooperative applicant here that
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you do not have a concern whether you are over managing that
process.
Councilman Stec-Is it possible for this application in the future to
move forward as an either or application? So, that we don't say pull
this application
Director Round-I am not going to tell you but if I'm the applicant and
I am at the table I would like a, personally I would like a vote on this,
I am not going to tell them how to do their business, but you know,
vote on the clustering provision and what prevents them from
coming back from another application rather than, again prolonging
the process but that is up to these folks.
Mr. Jarrett-That was kind of the direction I was going to take is that
we would like to leave with some kind of positive direction tonight
but I think you are hearing that we would seriously consider that
professional office proposal and be back to you I would think.
Mr. Meath-Again, there are other stockholders that I would have to
talk to but I would think there is a very strong possibility that they
would probably want me to come back and pursue that professional
office. I cannot say that for certain but I agree I would like to
maybe walk out of here tonight at least having the clustering issue
resolved.
Councilman Boor-Just to that though I think the discussion that is
going to take place is that Wednesday night the Planning?
Director Round-There is a workshop of the Planning Board.
Councilman Boor-That very issue is the sole thing that they are going
to talk about it and it is whether or not we should be looking at
allowing clustering in the zoning as it is right now. So, that this
applicant would not have come in and seek a rezoning in order to
cluster. It would also guarantee and I am not opposed to it, it would
also guarantee that there is no duplexes if you could allow clustering
and not duplexes if the zoning was to stay the same.
Mr. Jarrett-I can address that in two ways, excuse me I did not mean
to interrupt. But I can address that in two ways, number one we are
willing to condition any kind of action that you take, we are willing to
condition it anyway you need to, to show you in good faith that we
are only clustering detached single family homes, not interested in
any other proposal in that zone. Number two we would also be
willing to change the zone back to an SFR one acre later if you know
we get the clustering and it makes consistent zoning throughout the
town, that is fine.
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Mr. Meath-In the mean time if I hear the opinion of the Town Board
Members we may very well be back fairly soon seeking a zoning to a
professional office.
Councilman Brewer-I do not want to throw monkey wrench into this
mix here but, our rezonings are four times a year correct?
Director Round-It is a process that you have to go through so that is
why
Councilman Brewer-It is not going to happen next month I can
assure you of that.
Councilman Boor-...shovel in the ground anyway.
Councilman Brewer-Well understood but just let them be aware of it
that is all.
Councilman Boor-That is why I think you will be happy with whatever
happens. I am reluctant to really do anything tonight on it because
what if your constituents the other corporate members say yes, we
want office professional this board says it is a good idea we have the
list of people who have problems with that designation come in at a
public hearing and we explained to them the statistics show that the
very things that you are fearful about are going to be more prolific in
residential zoning than office professional. If we can get you know,
people to see that the issue may go away. I think, I can not speak
for the rest of the board but I think all of us, I certainly want it office
professional last time and I was kind of surprised that it did not go
that way. I understood that there were people in the public that
were unhappy with it but I also really felt that they were not really
aware of what the real ramifications of that zoning are.
Councilman Stec-The education process that I think that is going to
have to happen before we rezone this either way and I am not sure
this is something that we want the applicant to be prepared to
answer, Chris or is it something your office will prepare. But,
basically the concerns of the public and I am sure they are likely to
be the differences in uses that would be available under zoning
scenario the esthetics of the corner, how much foliage is removed,
noise and traffic. There are statistics out there we could say, look the
residential that you are asking for is the worst. As far as traffic
generation goes. But I think if we, anything that we try to
communicate to the neighbors there I think it needs to spell it out
this is the difference. These are the concerns as we understand
them and this is the likely impact of an office professional vs a
suburban residential.
Councilman Boor-I would agree with that.
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Town Counsel Hafner-I think that the Town Board can only face one
application so it is not an either or.
Councilman Boor-That is why I do not want to act on it.
Councilman Stec-But I think what we are trying to do, is we are
trying to get some feed back from the public to help the applicants
steer it one way or the other. Not entertain ...
Sr. Planner Ryba-I have of clarifications. Number one is the Planning
Board is meeting Thursday night not Wednesday night, there is
another meeting Wednesday night on Housing Opportunity Strategy.
The second is in terms of traffic generation I was talking about single
family is greater than duplex or multi family. We do not have that
proposal in front of us for professional office and I think it really
depends on the mix in terms of what the exact traffic impacts would
be so I do not want you to go too far with the single family as the
greatest impact because until we really look at that more closely or
see what they come forward with have to take a better look at that.
But, from I recall it isn't too far off, but we need to look more closely.
Thanks.
Director Round-Marilyn do you have an opinion about this whole
process and going, examining a number of alternatives. As far as
reaching the finish line.
Sr. Planner Ryba-I don't really know where the Planning Board is
going to go with allowing the cluster in the single family residential. I
think from the staff perspective we have laid out a few things and
notes that have been presented to, that will be presented to the
Planning Board or actually have been mailed to them but will be
discussed Thursday, night. That is that it makes sense to include it
in single family residential. One of the nice things about a cluster
provision is that it is saving money in terms of utilities and roads.
Hopefully the developer will pass along savings to the owners of the
lots, that could reduce the housing possibly or increase the profit
either way. So, the other thing about cluster development is that the
same number of units are allowed. It isn't a density bonus provision,
all it is, it is saving open space and that certainly something that the
whole open space plan was about. So, if it does turn out that way
then and it comes forward to the Town Board then I would hope that
the Town Board would support that zoning changes to go to SFR. Or
to allow cluster in SFR. Regarding this proposal though whether it is
PO or Suburban Residential you are still going to allow the duplex
and multi family so either way I think it is going to happen. All the
PO would do would allow one more thing and I think it is really up to
the applicant and I am probably not giving them too direct an answer
in terms of where to go.
Director Round-I think there is a number of unknowns that are out
there and I think you got an application as Bob mentioned in front of
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you. I think you need to look at the merits of the application in front
of you. I know there are some long term goals about the land use
out there that you would like to achieve but I do not think all the
players are in the room that were here two years ago and maybe you
have some ideals about what the situation is but the reality maybe
different, when we get there for that discussion in two months or
three months or when ever that is. I just want to make sure that
everybody that is here as a part of this process knows that.
Supervisor Brower-And actually I do think we owe it to the applicant
to vote on this to make a decision on this proposal that is before us.
If they so desire to come back before us in the future for an
alternative zoning request they are certainly are able to do that.
Councilman Boor-...prior to the meeting on Thursday.
Councilman Brewer-We don't necessarily have to vote on this tonight.
Councilman Boor-You are talking about voting on this tonight?
Supervisor Brewer-That would be my thought.
Councilman Brewer-Dennis, just because we have an application we
do not have to vote on this, because we have an application in front
of us.
Supervisor Brower-Why are you going to table it though?
Councilman Boor-Because we have information coming on Thursday.
Supervisor Brower-You want to wait until the Thursday meeting to
see how that goes.
Councilman Stec-Rick can talk to his shareholders ...
Councilman Brewer-Thursday does not have anything to do with this
application.
Supervisor Brower-If that is the feeling of the Board then do I have a
motion to table?
Councilman Brewer-I do not think there is a down side any approval
of this tonight. If this was approved by the Board tonight we still
could come back later and change...
Councilman Boor-My only concern there is public perception is like we
change it to this zone, one week and then we change it to this zone
the next week. I think these are really critical and important issues
and I do not want to make it seem like it is.
Councilman Stec-I would not want to vote yes tonight.
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Councilman Boor-I am not comfortable voting yes, it doesn't mean
that if I won't at a later date.
Supervisor Brower-In that case could I have
Councilman Brewer-No, we have got to have a public hearing.
Town Clerk Dougher-Did you open the public hearing?
Supervisor Brower-I thought we are still in public hearing.
Town Clerk Dougher-There was a lady over here that did want to
speak, I believe, Gentlemen, excuse me.
Supervisor Brower-Does someone wish to speak on this? Come on
over Mr. Sipp. The public hearing is still open to my knowledge.
Mr. Donald Sipp-Courthouse Drive This may not speak to the
complexity of zoning and so forth but as a resident of this area for
nineteen years I can tell any buyer of a home in this area beware,
because you are sandwiched between the trucks that heads down
from Montreal or the ones that come from Vermont. On the other
end you have the Great Escape for noise factor. Noise has gotten
considerably worse especially from the trucks in the past two to three
years I assume due to NAFTA.
Supervisor Brower-Well there are certainly more trucks on that
corridor than I have seen in years past.
Mr. Sipp-They are much closer than I am to the Northway and we
can have the vibrations and we hear the down shifting and the up
shifting and so forth. Any buyer in that area that buys a house
should have a good stereo system to blot out what comes through
the walls. We were told many times by people on Route 9, why did
you build a house there, when we built the house nineteen years ago
when there was a little Storytown, Great Escape and there were not
that many trucks traveling that road at that time. I think what is
going to happen as Roger has said, that interchange has got to be
changed especially if the Great Escape goes ahead with their plans to
expand. Traffic even just plain pedestrian car traffic is going to be
much worse in that area. So, that I would somebody might buy the
houses but I do not think they are going to be very happy in that
decision. I would strengthen your argument that maybe this should
be changed to a business professional area. Lastly in my opinion
that as a Town Board I cannot see that you don't have the right to
tell a developer what he can and cannot do. That should be your
prerogative to protect the other citizens and to protect potential
citizens from getting into a situation where they will be bothered by
the noise and the traffic that may occur in a situation like this. So, I
would encourage you to take a long look at some of these
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developments particularly in the or not too far from here on Round
Pond Road where two houses have sat, one for over a year going on
two years the other one for a year with no buyers in sight, mainly
because they were put in the wrong place. I can see that you
knowing the area and knowing what happened in this area should be
aware of this fact and be able to steer some of this development into
areas where they may be better served or different types of
development.
Supervisor Brower-Thank you Mr. Sipp. As long as would anyone
else care to comment at this time having heard further discussion on
the issue? Ok. Still a pretty quiet group. Board Members do you
have anything further?
Councilman Boor-I would like to table it until we get the information
from Mr. Meath with regards to his other partners and find out what
happens at the Thursday Meeting and also to give the neighborhood
a notice that this is something that we are looking at we would like
them to come here so that we can all discuss and have everybody on
the same page and understand what the real potentials are now and
in the future.
Supervisor Brower-I will close the public hearing then (8:41P.M.) Do
I have a motion from you Mr. Boor to the affect?
RESOLUTION TO TABLE ACTION ON PROPOSED REZONING
REQUEST
RESOLUTION NO. 498.2003
INTROUDCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
RESOLVED, that the proposed rezoning of property owned by Rick
Meath located at the Corner of West Mountain Road and Gurney Lane
from SFR-1A to SR-1A is hereby tabled.
Duly adopted this 1st day of December, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Discussion held before vote: Councilman Brewer-Not to disagree
with you Roger but I think weren't all the neighbors noticed when
weoothey already have been for this public hearing. Councilman
Boor-Nobody is here. Councilman Brewer-That shows their intent.
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
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We can always vote on this in two weeks. Mr. Jarrett-If there is any
potential to rezone this to as professional office would not be acted
on in two weeks is that correct? Councilman Brewer-Correct. Mr.
Jarrett-Is it deferred for another quarter or is it a modified application
at this point? Director Round-I think you would have a new proposal
in front of you for professional office to the extent that we need to
refer it to Warren County Planning Board we need to refer it to the
Planning, three months is the number that we work with, depending
on where we end the cycle it could be longer. Mr. Jarrett-That would
have an impact on our thinking. We are willing to table for a couple
weeks because we need time to digest this and I see that you need
time react to the meeting on Thursday night. Vote taken.
2.4 Public Hearing - Proposed Local Law -To Amend
Queensbury Town Code Chapter 179 "Zoning" To
Revise Language Concerning Speial Use Permits
And Pre-existing Uses
NOTICE SHOWN
Supervisor Brower-Craig Brown is here this evening, good evening
Craig.
Zoning Officer Craig Brown-Good evening I will try and be as brief as
I can on this what I think is a relatively minor modification to the
Zoning Ordinance. I guess a bit of history, first, in March of this year
we sat here and talked about adding this very section we are looking
to modify. Adding a section to the Zoning Ordinance basically the
pre existing uses section of the special use ordinance. Since the
inception of this section both the Planning Board and applicants have
somewhat struggled with I guess quantifying and qualifying for this
pre existing status if you will, so the proposed modification you have
in front you tonight is hopefully a tool to help both the Planning
Board and the applicants quality or better fit into that pre existing
position. We can go through it or maybe just answer some questions
if you have questions right off the bat.
Supervisor Brower-Does any Board Member have a specific question
of Craig?
Councilman Boor-I am going to wait until after the public comment, I
think.
Supervisor Brower-I will open it up then to, I will open the public
hearing on the proposed amendment of the Queensbury Town Code
Chapter 179 Zoning to revise language concerning special use
permits and pre existing uses. Would anyone care to comment on
this public hearing? Is there someone, Mr. Salvador?
Mr. John Salvador-Good evening my name is John Salvador Mr.
Brown mentioned the fact that these changes are being proposed to
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facilitate the flow of these special use permits both on the part of the
applicants and the part of the Planning Board. Have you received
anything, anyway of a recommendation from the Planning Board
recommending those changes? I have not heard of any applicants
complaining about the process, I am in the process myself I do not
find a great deal of difficulty meeting the requirements. I do not
think anyone else should either. So, I question really the need for
this, from a user point of view and from the Planning Board point of
view. I would hope that there would be someone here from the
Planning Board to reinforce their desire to effectuate these changes.
In any case, looking at the local law and the proposed changes,
Section 179-10-035 we are going to strike the term non conforming.
Does that mean it pertains to conforming uses? There are only two
kinds of uses as I understand it in the context of that pre existing,
they are either conforming or they are non conforming. So, we are
going to strike non conforming does that mean there then this
applies only to conforming uses?
Councilman Boor-All inclusive.
Mr. Salvador-Both. Well why don't we say both then why not say pre
existing conforming.
Councilman Boor-I think the mistake was that they got specific to
begin with.
Mr. Salvador-So it applies to both conforming and non conforming.
Substantiated pre existing uses shall be exempt. So both conforming
and non conforming will be exempt from the comprehensive review,
if they can be substantiated how can you substantiate a non
conforming use if it is illegal. How can you substantiate it?
Councilman Boor-Because it is grand fathered. I am not saying it is
right or wrong I am giving you an explanation.
Councilman Brewer-Just the shear existence of it.
Councilman Boor-It is there.
Mr. Salvador-If it is there legally you are absolutely right.
Councilman Boor-Legal is a whole other field. We are not talking
about that now.
Mr. Salvador-It is a very real part of
Councilman Boor-But that is not what this is dealing with.
Mr. Salvador-Section 179-10-060 talks about marinas and there is
paragraph one and paragraph two. Paragraph one applies to new
marinas. Is there a presumption that paragraph two applies to old
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40
marinas and if so why not say so. Section 1790-20-035 never did
talk about administrative special use permit. That was the text that
was changed back in March and there is absolutely no mention in
that paragraph of administrative use permit. This is a very, very
important issue, this special use permit, I think the Board has taken it
very lightly and has willy nilly changed it in March and now again you
are about to do the same thing. Earlier this evening heard, you
listened to an application on a septic variance on Lake George and
the fact that the design had been passed by the Lake George Park
Commission and they really didn't want to get involved in it. That is
unfortunate because the State Legislature gave the Lake George Park
Commission the powers to get involved in the subject like wastewater
way back in 1987. They even changed the public health code in the
process to give them the sole authority in the Lake George Basin.
With this authority went the development of a design manual that
was supposed to govern wastewater treatment works in the Lake
George Basin. Now, they stand here today and they say words to
the effect we do not want to get involved? The problem we have, we
have always complained about over lapping jurisdictions that the
applicants are troubled with over lapping jurisdictions. They do not
know to go, they do not know where to go for a permit. That is not
the case. It is the case that the jurisdictions are not over lapping and
we have gaps in jurisdiction. These things are all falling into gaps
and this special use permit is one of them. Now, either the town is
going to get in involved in regulating its property, it's the land in the
Town, regulating or not. We have gone full circle in this process the
Town used to be in the special use permit business until 1982. It
issued special use permits for marinas until 1982. When the DEC
promulgated regulations putting them in the business of issuing
marina permits. The Town dropped out of it and it went along for a
number of years until 1987 when it went from the DEC to the Park
Commission. Everybody is dissatisfied with the results and so the
Town decides to get back into the business once again. Now, you
are dissatisfied with the procedure you have been put in. Who is
doing what to whom and when. I think this Board being a lame duck
board should table this request back to the Board have the Planning
Board get involved in this, they have not been involved in the process
of developing these regulations have them get involved and come up
with a recommendation that is going to do the job. The situation on
Lake George with the proliferation of water front development is
uncalled for. The proliferation of docks and boat houses and
development along the shore where we are not supposed to have it
the codes are written that way. We are not supposed to have city
densities and we have nothing else but and we have it because of
these gaps in jurisdiction. We complain about over lapping that is
not the case at all. There are gaps and this is one of them. I would
recommend that you not do it. I would recommend that you set up a
blue ribbon committee to take a look at this and involve some
operators in it. These regulations have been developed you have not
had the benefit of operators in this business participating in this
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41
unless they have been doing it behind the scenes. So, I would
recommend that you not adopt this. Thank you.
Supervisor Brower-Thank you, Mr. Salvador. Would anyone else care
to address the Town Board during this public hearing, Mr. Strough.
Mr. John Strough-John Strough, Queensbury Mr. Salvador hit upon
something that I think needs discussion and that is the Planning
Board which really does, is the Board that deals with special use
permits has not discussed the item. We are going to discuss this
Thursday night but this is putting the cart before the horse. I mean
if you are approving language and honestly I do not have problem
with the language. I do have a question about if you do strike non
conforming use what does that mean? Is there any legal
ramifications to that? I have a concern about that and I think that
needs to be addressed. But, the Planning Board has not wrestled
with this change in the law much at all, they are the ones that deal
with it but they have been kind of I think we need to discuss it
Thursday night as what I think we need to do.
Supervisor Brower-As a Planning Board Member and a Town Board
Elect Member I appreciate your input to.
Mr. Strough-As a Town Board Elect I think the Planning Board who
deals with this issue we should get the feed back from the Planning
Board, thank you.
Councilman Brewer-How did this originate? Who decided to make
the change?
Director Round-You have a comment here, we got a couple of
answers to a couple of things, because I think when people say
things it is automatically taken for the sole source of the information.
There is some other information we could bring to you.
Councilman Stec-I am not saying that it isn't often a good idea but
we are not required to solicit input from the Planning Board on this
sort of action.
Director Round-This change and Craig can jump in here any time was
a direct result of Planning Board's difficulty with what represented a
pre-existing use. What we are trying to do is to define what that is
the suggested language changes maybe the verbatim changes were
not shared but the concept of identifying a permit issued by another
entity was directly discussed by the Planning Board I think during a
couple of evening session. I know John, if you were not there or if it
was late at night when the
Mr. Strough-I got this memorandum that was given to us October
2ih 2003.
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Director Round-That was just an update on how the project is going
to move forward after that. That is not the only information that you
have received.
Mr. Strough-I do not remember having an opportunity to sit down
with my other Planning Board Members and discussing this
specifica Ily.
Director Round-Maybe Craig will address that or not?
Zoning Administrator Brown-Well I can,! guess a couple of clean up
things and some other comments we heard. Striking the non
conforming ...
Mr. Strough-I have said my point.
Zoning Administrator Brown-I am sorry John I did not mean to jump
in on you there. The Striking of the non conforming and the
administrative use permit those are both basically clean up items that
were, that should have been addressed in March when we made
those changes, and it was put in there it was just, those were more
record keeping, house keeping things. As far as the input from the
Planning Board not specifically with this item but at different times
with different members of the Planning Board the feed back that I
have gotten from them and from the public and the applicants that
submit these applications, excuse me as I said in the beginning has
been hey, this is a difficult process it is hard to generate all this
information that we need to do and put together this pre existing
historical use of the property. Isn't there an easier way to do it?
This is our reaction to that. So, have we had a formal sit down with
the Planning Board to get their position, no, I think they received and
I am sure they received the same memo you guys did dated October
2ih which is more than a month ago and to date the only feed back
that I have gotten is from a few of the Planning Board Members and
that has been lets make it easier if we can and that is what we are
trying to do here.
Councilman Boor-Craig, I have one question, and I will ask it out of
ignorance but on 179-10-60 as Mr. Salvador pointed out the word
new, old isn't in there relative to class A is that in other words I am
not quite sure I understand. Are we saying that if you were in there
and you are a Class A Marina you do not have to?
Zoning Administrator Brown-I think that the new, I know the new
was put in here to specifically not encompass the pre existing uses.
If you come in and you apply for a pre existing status from Section
35 a couple of sections before, the goal is to not have this section
apply to you up front. The thought there is if you come in and seek
to apply for a pre existing status under the way it is proposed you
would have a current permit from the Park Commission and the
theory is that you have been before them, they have given you the
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
43
permit so in order for you to get the permit from them you must
comply with the regulations. So, any new marina which would go
thorough the complete comprehensive planning board review for a
special use permit would have to comply to these standards even
prior to going to the Park Commission. They are going to require
local approval before they issue their approval. So, we are trying to
hold them to the same standards that the Park Commission is going
to so there is that consistency.
Councilman Boor-I know that when you start something like this it is
bumpy when you start out but I will go back to the Hopper
Application, they did not have the records needed to get granted
what they were granted. So, how does that happen?
Zoning Administrator Brown-Well, that just points to the fact that,
you know, the Planning Board and applicants struggle with how to
put this, these types of information together to support this pre
existing position. Some applicants will have affidavits from renters
some applicants will have you know a photograph from the dock in
1972 and some will have a building permit from
Councilman Boor-And some have nothing.
Zoning Administrator Brown-And some have nothing. Those are
discretionary decisions made by the Planning Board, so we are trying
to formulize it and give them some guidelines to use when they do
make those decisions.
Director Round-Roger if I might I don't think Craig or anyone on our
staff is opposed to receiving more input on legislation I think that is a
good thing so if you are not inclined to act on it tonight and we want
to get additional input from anybody either Mr. Salvador or Mr.
Strough suggested by all means lets do so. I think the reason that
we are here tonight is that the Planning Board has struggled with a
different animal special use permit is a different animal for our
Planning Board as well as acknowledged pre existing uses so we have
got two different processes that they are trying to go through that's
new to them and right now they are over worked, underpaid in trying
to get through a learning curve with a new process is even more
difficult in that kind of environment. So, that is what we are
struggling with.
Councilman Boor-Do not miss understand me I do not think this
precludes or brings to a halt the notion that we can continue to make
changes as we see fit to fine tune this. I don't see this as going
backwards or anything. I do not really have a problem with this but I
think there is probably more that needs to be done. I think there are
still going to be a lot of bumps in the road. I think the Planning
Board probably does have get more involved.
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Zoning Administrator Craig Brown-We have got the meeting with
them Thursday night, what was envisioned to give them the outcome
of this meeting and now I guess we will get some input from them a
bring it back next time.
Councilman Stec-I think you can bring to them that the Board we
followed what you did here and I think we think it is a good idea but,
we think that they should have their first swing at it. There is no
emergency we can do this in two weeks. We have the benefit of
another board looking at it.
Supervisor Brower-Mr. Salvador did you have something, before I
close the public hearing?
Mr. Salvador-Please don't close the public hearing you should leave it
open if you are going to.. The real hang up seems to be the words
substantiate how do you substantiate that you are a pre existing non
conforming use? This Town and every State Agency that I have
every worked with that grants a use permit it is a matter of public
record. They do not get destroyed this Town maintains an archives
you can go back to day one the first special use permit issued by this
Town is a matter of record. Every permit this town grants is a matter
of record there should be no reason why a person can't assimilate all
all of the permits they have ever receive conduct the business they
are doing. It is available it is not difficult. That is why we have the
privileged of freedom of information. The other thing about the Park
Commission Regulations they do not address the issue of Commercial
Use as being non conforming. That is the degree of non
conformance we are wrestling with, not whether or not it is a marina
it is self evident that a marina is a commercial activity. But the Park
Commission does not delve into that, when they grant, that is why
they call them Class A Marina and Class B we used to have a marina
permit that was only commercial. You could not get it unless you
were in a commercial business. You could not qualify for it unless
you could substantiate that you were conducting business. Trade
Names these sort of things. Tax ID numbers if you will permits from
special State Agencies to conduct commercial business that was the
basis for the old marina permit. But we did not want to address that
so now we call them Class A and Class B the word commercial does
not come into play. Now, are you interested in whether or not what
is going on, on Lake George is commercial activity in a residential
zone? That is what is non conforming. Not whether or not it is a
marina it could be anything else makes it non conforming. I believe
if you are going to say, substantiated. Make a table of documents
that you want available to substantiate that, that use is pre existing.
It is not hard. That would make it complete. Then the Planning
Board does not have to guess. You present the documentation but it
is available.
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Supervisor Brower-I think Mr. Salvador made a good point to leave
the public hearing open I would entertain a motion to table this
leaving the public hearing open until, for two weeks.
RESOLUTION TO TABLE ACTION ON PROPOSED LOCAL LAW
TO AMEND QUEENBURY TOWN CODE CHAPTER 179
"ZONING" TO REVISE LANGUAGE CONCERNING SPECIAL
USE PERMITS AND PRE EXISTING USES
RESOLUTION NO. 499.2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS
ADOPTION
SECONCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby
tables action on the proposed Local Law to Amend the Queensbury
Town Code Chapter 179 "Zoning" To revise language concerning
Special Use Permits and Pre existing Uses for two weeks.
Duly adopted this 1st day of December, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Supervisor Brower-Thank you Craig for your presentation.
3.0 CORRESPONDENCE
3.1 HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT
This is a note of thanks and appreciation to you and your staff. You
have given us year-round high quality maintenance and friendly
people to provide it.
This past year has been difficult with the large amount of snow and
leaves that took their time coming down. You handled it
professionally, and we thank you.
Queensbury is a great place to live.
Sincerely,
/s/
John R. Buchanan
3.2 CRANDALL PUBLIC LIBRARY
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
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Ltr. on file lists our tax levy rate as for the Town of Queensbury will
be .35491 per $1,000 of assessed valuation.
4.0 INTRODUCTION OF RESOLUTIONS FROM THE FLOOR
5.0 OPEN FORUM
Mr. Pliney Tucker-41 Division Road, Queensbury 6.1 Questioned the
intermunicipal agreement with City of Glens Falls?
Supervisor Brower-A proposal to provide cooperative service to the
City recognizing that Coles Woods is a benefit to both Queensbury
and Glens Falls Residents.
Mr. Tucker-Questioned if this had anything to do when there was a
problem and the trails were washed out?
Councilman Brewer-No
Supervisor Brower-Noted Mr. Tucker brought up an interesting point
of three million gallons over a period of five to seven days dumped
into the wetlands could have contributed to problems that some of
Queensbury Residents have faced subsequent to that. Noted heavy
rains and significant flooding in the area whether it is due to the fact
that the wetlands simply could not absorb that amount of water in
that short period of time but I speculate only, only speculate that it
could have contributed to some of the problems.
Mr. Tucker-Res. 6.3 What are we doing there?
Councilman Turner-That is a piece of property on Meadowbrook Road
that we just bought.
Supervisor Brower-They are talking about excavating one mile for
activity trails, construction of 10 car parking lot and developing a
fishing access site and constructing a foot bridge across Half Way
Brook to a total of $29,500. to be taken from the Capital Reserve
Fund.
Mr.Tucker-Asked for update on Main Street Corridor.
Director Round-The design has been submitted to the Department of
Transportation for its approval. Will be having a meeting with the
Town Board to discuss funding for underground utilities. The
Highway letting is for the fall of 2004 and construction in 2005.
There will be a public informational meeting sometime before this
fall.
Mr. Tucker-Will the discussion on the underground utilities be public?
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
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Director Round-Yes.
Supervisor Brower-Would anyone else care to address the Town
Board? Mr. Strough
Mr. John Strough-Re: 6.6 Awarding bid for color television pipe line
inspection system. Noted town spending in the seventy thousand for
necessary camera work on the pipes, this camera is in the low thirties
so that is a savings so I expect on next Monday's Post Star to get a
Bravo for th is, rig ht?
Councilman Stec-Noted they do not make black and white models
anymore...unless we want a custom made camera color is the only
one made.
Councilman Boor-You might want to mention the cemetery fence that
was also in that Boo was noted at $37,00 the reality is it is $16,000.
Deputy Wastewater Supt. Mike Shaw-Reviewed the press the Town
had received on the proposed camera purchase; fact, camera is not
in the 2004 budget there is funding for it in the 2003 budget fact, in
past hired firm for four years and spent in excess of $73,000+ with a
product we were not happy with... Reason for camera 1. find the
cleanliness of the lines 2. check for infiltration 3. identify repairs
noted problem with hiring company they do it on their timing not
ours and if there is a problem in the field we are lucky to see them in
a week or two weeks. Noted infiltration into our lines means more
dollars to the city. If we contracted out to TV all of our lines it
would be $1.30 a foot, we currently have in excess of thirty miles
after Route 9 it will be thirty seven miles with in the next few year
Main Street will be on line and another possible location on Dixon
Road, it would run at a dollar thirty around two hundred and fifty
thousand dollars. It is our intention to buy the TV camera to save
money.
Mr. John Strough-Res. 6.1 Intermunicipal Agreement with City of
Glens Falls spoke to Peter MCDivitt-Is this where we are going to
raise the house and put a parking lot in?... if it is it is a good
concept....spoke to the neighbors issues they brought up, noise and
lighting. It would be a great opportunity for the City and Town
Planning Boards to work together and allow the citizens to address a
joint meeting addressing their concerns.
Director of Parks and Recreation Harry Hansen-Noted Res. 6.1 does
not have anything to do with the water problem at Crandall Park, it
does not have anything to do with the house or the parking 10t...Chris
and I approached the City about three months ago regarding the sale
of a piece of property that the Recreation Commission would like to
have that borders the Faith Bible Church Property and the Hudson
Pointe Nature Preserve. That discussion escalated to assisting the
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
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City in developing Ski Trails, we thought it was a little to expensive
and out of our ball park so we backed off. Just last week I called Jim
Clark who is the gentleman we had dealt with and asked how that
informal discussion with the City was going regarding the purchase of
the property and he mentioned to me and had my counterpart at
Glens Falls Toby Gifford who is the new Recreation Director sitting in
his office and said they had a problem with the new Ski Trails that
they developed on about the five acre parcel on Dixon Road. It is
east of the Northway and north of Dixon Road. They have cut the
trails they made it ready for winter use but unfortunately they have a
lot of brush and could use a small bob cat to cuff off a hill side and
their question to me was could we help and assist them in getting it
ready for winter usage. I checked with Rick to see if we could
borrow a chipper and checked with Counsel to see if we wanted to
try this without the Boards approval and decided we didn't really
want to try it. The intermunicipal agreement in front of you is to use
a Highway Chipper, a Recreation Bob Cat and three to four to five
troops to work no more than two days to cut up brush and leave it
where we cut it. They want to use it as mulch for their sky trails.
Noted he felt the Bob Cat the slope was too steep suggested they
call BOCES for a bulldozer which is what they really need.
Supervisor Brower-Noted he had spoken to the Mayor regarding the
proper you have an interest in and his response to me he was
interested in the concept he was going to the water board and get
back to us. We are still in open forum, asked for further comments.
Mr. Mike Genier.
Pine View Supt. Mike Genier-Re: Boos and Bravos on Cemetery
Fence Three times it has been reported in the newspaper Oct. 28,
Nov. 19 and 24 about a thirty seven thousand dollar cemetery fence,
this fence is sixteen thousand three hundred dollars and it will
replace the existing fence at Mt. Hermon. Just wanted to set the
record straight.
Sr. Planner Marilyn Ryba-I did want to give credit to a group of
people who have worked on the Dixon Road property clearing brush
in preparation of the trails and that is the 2003 Leadership
Adirondack Class, there was about forty man hours put in from
September through the middle of November to pave the way.
Supervisor Brower-Would anyone else care to address the Board
during Open Forum this evening? Thank you all for your input.
Close the Open Forum at this time.
6.0 RESOLUTIONS
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RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING INTERMUNICIP AL AGREEMENT
WITH CITY OF GLENS FALLS CONCERNING CRANDALL PARK
CROSS-COUNTRY SKI TRAIL CONSTRUCTION PROJECT
RESOLUTION NO.: 500.2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY:
Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury (Town) and the City of Glens Falls (City) are
immediately adjacent municipalities whose residents make use of the cross-country ski trails
available at Crandall Park (Park), and
WHEREAS, the City has purchased a parcel of property adjacent to the Park and is
in the process of constructing additional cross-country ski trails to supplement the trails
already available to both communities, and
WHEREAS, the City has requested assistance from the Town in the form of labor
and equipment to complete the construction clean-up of the project area, and
WHEREAS, an agreement between the two municipalities would benefit both
communities and be in the best interests of the respective municipalities, and
WHEREAS, in accordance with General Municipal Law 9119-0, municipal
corporations, including cities and towns, are permitted and encouraged to enter into
cooperative agreements such as this, and
WHEREAS, a proposed Intermunicipal Agreement has been prepared and presented
at this meeting, which Agreement includes a mutual, reciprocal hold
harmless/indemnification provision and is in form approved by Town Counsel,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves of the
Intermunicipal Agreement with the City of Glens Falls concerning the Town's provision of
assistance in the form of labor and equipment to complete construction clean-up related to
the construction of additional cross-country ski trails in Crandall Park as described in this
Resolution, and
BE IT FURTHER,
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RESOLVED, that the Town Board authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to
execute the Agreement and the Town Supervisor and/or Director of Parks and Recreation to
take such other and further action necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer
NOES
None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING GLEN LAKE CANOE/CAR TOP
BOAT ACCESS IMPROVEMENT PROJECT AND WITHDRAWAL
FROM CAPITAL RESERVE FUND FOR SUCH PROJECT
RESOLUTION NO.:
501. 2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY:
Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board previously established a Capital Reserve
Fund known as the Recreation Assessment Reserve Fund No. 61 (Fund No. 61) for future
recreational developments, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to withdraw and expend moneys from such
reserve account in the amount of $45,200 for specific capital improvements and certain
items of equipment for the Glen Lake Canoe/Car Top Boat Access Improvement Project to
consist of:
1. demolition and removal of the vacant residential structure;
2. installing a dry fire hydrant;
3. purchasing/installing a dock system;
4. erecting a pole barn boat storage facility;
5. landscaping and improving the entryway and parking area; and
6. professional services for all of the above;
and
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WHEREAS, in accordance with New York State General Municipal Law 96(c), the
Town Board is authorized to withdraw and expend funds from Fund #61 subject to
permissive referendum,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes the recreation
project known as the Glen Lake Canoe/Car Top Boat Access Improvement Project and
authorizes expenditures in the total amount of $45,200 for the work described in the
preambles of this Resolution, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Supervisor to establish a separate capital project fund for such Project - Glen Lake Access
Improvements Capital Project Fund #140, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes a transfer from Fund No.: 61
in the amount of $45,200 to fund such Project, such funds to be placed into the capital
project fund to be established in accordance with this Resolution and the Town Board
further directs that in the event there are funds remaining in such capital project fund after
completion of the Project or in the event that the Project is not undertaken, the moneys in the
capital project fund shall be returned to the capital reserve fund, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby establishes initial appropriations in
Account No.: 140-7110-2899 in the amount of $45,200 and estimated revenues in
Account No.: 140-0140-5031 in the amount of$45,200, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby finds that the withdrawal and expenditure
for the Glen Lake Canoe/Car Top Boat Access Improvement Project is an expenditure for a
specific capital project and items of equipment for which the reserve account was
established, and
BE IT FURTHER,
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RESOLVED, that this Resolution is subject to a permISSIve referendum in
accordance with the provisions of Town Law Article 7 and the Town Board hereby
authorizes and directs the Town Clerk to publish and post such notices and take such other
actions as may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES
None
ABSENT
None
Discussion held before vote: Supervisor Brower-Project to demolish the vacant residential
structure install a dry fire hydrant, purchase and install a dock system, erect a pole barn boat
storage facility, landscape and improve the entry way to the park area and take the money
from the Capital Reserve Fund known as the Recreation Reserve Fund No. 61 for
Recreational Developments and improvements. Councilman Turner-What does the pole
barn consist of? Recreation Director Hansen-Commission had looked at the idea of putting
up some type of open air structure where individual could put a canoe a kayak a racing shell
lock it up and leave it there for the summer time, store it in other words. Noted the contents
of the house was sold at auction a few weeks ago, gaining some revenue for the Town. The
house is ready to come down. Councilman Turner-How many boats will that hold?
Director Hansen-upwards of twenty. Councilman Stec- The structure will be open air but
will it be secure? Director Hansen-It probably would be secured by the individual. We will
not have a guard on it. Councilman Stec-Noted concern over vandals.. Director Hansen-
We have intentions of closing the facility at 9prn. Opened at 6 am. Noted that this is not a
done deal, have contracted the residents of Glen Lake regarding the project.
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING KLAK/HILAND P ARK-
MEADOWBROOK ROAD PROPERTY IMPROVEMENT PROJECT
AND WITHDRAWAL FROM CAPITAL RESERVE FUND FOR SUCH
PROJECT
RESOLUTION NO.:
502. 2003
INTRODUCED BY:
Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY:
Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board previously established a Capital Reserve
Fund known as the Recreation Assessment Reserve Fund No. 61 (Fund No. 61) for future
recreational developments, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to withdraw and expend moneys from such
reserve account in the amount of $29,500 for specific capital improvements and certain
items of equipment for the KlaklHiland Park-Meadowbrook Road Property Improvement
Project to consist of:
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
53
7. excavating in order to create approximately one mile of activity trails;
8. constructing a 10 car parking area;
9. developing fishing access sites;
10. purchasing/installing a foot bridge across Halfway Brook; and
11. professional services for all of the above;
and
WHEREAS, in accordance with New York State General Municipal Law 96(c), the
Town Board is authorized to withdraw and expend funds from Fund #61 subject to
permissive referendum,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes the recreation
project known as the KlaklHiland Park-Meadowbrook Road Property Improvement Project
and authorizes expenditures in the total amount of $29,500 for the work described in the
preambles of this Resolution, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Supervisor to establish a separate capital project fund for such Project - KlaklHiland Park
Improvements Capital Project Fund #142, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes a transfer from Fund No.: 61
in the amount of $29,500 to fund such Project, such funds to be placed into the capital
project fund to be established in accordance with this Resolution and the Town Board
further directs that in the event there are funds remaining in such capital project fund after
completion of the Project or in the event that the Project is not undertaken, the moneys in the
capital project fund shall be returned to the capital reserve fund, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby establishes initial appropriations in
Account No.: 142-7110-2899 in the amount of $29,500 and estimated revenues in
Account No.: 142-0142-5031 in the amount of$29,500, and
BE IT FURTHER,
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
54
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby finds that the withdrawal and expenditure
for the KlaklHiland Park-Meadowbrook Road Property Improvement Project is an
expenditure for a specific capital project and items of equipment for which the reserve
account was established, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that this Resolution is subject to a permISSIve referendum in
accordance with the provisions of Town Law Article 7 and the Town Board hereby
authorizes and directs the Town Clerk to publish and post such notices and take such other
actions as may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES
: Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor
NOES
: None
ABSENT
: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING HIRING OF KA YLAN OSTRANDER
TO WORK FOR DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND RECREATION
RESOLUTION NO. : 503.2003
INTRODUCED BY Mr. Daniel Stec
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY
: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, the Department of Parks and Recreation has requested Town Board
authorization to hire Kaylan Ostrander to work part-time for the Department as a Youth
Program Assistant, and
WHEREAS, Town Policy requires that familial relationships must be disclosed
and that the Town Board must approve the appointment of Town employees' relatives
and Kaylan Ostrander is the daughter of Bruce Ostrander, a Town employee,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the
hiring of Kay Ian Ostrander to work for the Town's Department of Parks and Recreation as a
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
55
part-time Youth Program Assistant effective December 1 st, 2003 at the rate of pay of $5.15
per hour, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Director of
Parks and Recreation, Town Supervisor and/or Town Comptroller to complete any forms
and take any action necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES
NOES
Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner
None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING PURCHASE AND INSTALLATION OF FENCE
TO BE LOCATED ON TOWN PROPERTY LOCATED ON
BIG BAY ROAD
RESOLUTION NO.: 504. 2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board previously adopted purchasing
procedures which require that the Town Board must approve any purchase in an amount of
$5,000 or greater up to New York State bidding limits, and
WHEREAS, the Town's Highway Superintendent has advised the Town Board that
he wishes to purchase a fence to be located at the northern end of Town property located on
Big Bay Road and used by the Highway Department, and
WHEREAS, the Highway Superintendent requested and received proposals from
contractors for the furnishing of the fence and labor, and
WHEREAS, the Highway Superintendent is requesting Town Board approval to
hire the lowest bidder for this work, Adirondak Fence, for an amount not to exceed $5,490,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
56
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves of the Town
Highway Superintendent's buying a fence from and engaging the services of Adirondak
Fence to install a fence at the northern end of Town property located on Big Bay Road and
used by the Town Highway Department as set forth in Adirondak Fence's November 10th,
2003 proposal presented at this meeting for an amount not to exceed $5,490, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board authorizes a 2003 Budget amendment and
transfer of $5,490 from Misc. Contractual Account No.: 04-5110-4400 to Highway
Administration - Capital Construction Contractual Account No.: 01-5010-2899 to pay for
this project, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Highway
Superintendent, Town Comptroller and/or Town Supervisor to take such other and further
action as may be necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec
NOES
None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AWARDING BID FOR COLOR TELEVISION PIPE
LINE INSPECTION SYSTEM FOR USE BY TOWN
WASTEWATER DEPARTMENT
RESOLUTION NO. 505,2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, the Town's Acting Purchasing Agent duly advertised for bids for the
purchase of a Color Television Pipe Line inspection system for internal pipe inspections
for the Town's Wastewater Department, and
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
57
WHEREAS, Foster's Equipment submitted the only bid that met the required
specifications in the amount of $33,485 and therefore the Deputy Wastewater Director and
Acting Purchasing Agent have recommended that the Town Board award the bid to Foster's
Equipment,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby awards the bid for a Color
Television Pipe Line inspection system for internal pipe inspections for the Town's
Wastewater Department to Foster's Equipment for an amount not to exceed $33,485 to be
paid for from Account No.: 032-8120-2001, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town
Supervisor, Town Comptroller, Deputy Wastewater Director and/or Acting Purchasing
Agent to take any and all actions necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer
NOES None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING PROMOTION OF FRANK LOPEZ
FROM WATER PLANT OPERA TOR TRAINEE TO WATER PLANT
OPERATOR I AT TOWN WATER TREATMENT PLANT
RESOLUTION NO. 506.2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, the Town Water Superintendent has recommended that the Town
Board authorize the promotion of Frank Lopez from Water Plant Operator Trainee to Water
Plant Operator I at the Town's Water Treatment Plant, and
WHEREAS, the Water Superintendent has advised that Mr. Lopez has passed the
departmental test for the position and has the required job experience, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to authorize the requested promotion,
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
58
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the
promotion of Frank Lopez from Water Plant Operator Trainee to Water Plant Operator I at
the Town Water Treatment Plant effective December 4th, 2003 at the rate of pay specified in
the Town's CSEA Union Agreement for the position for the year 2003, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Supervisor, Water Superintendent and/or Town Comptroller to complete any forms and take
any action necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING EXTENSION OF EMPLOYMENT
FOR HOWARD BLUEGE, PART-TIME, TEMPORARY EMPLOYEE
IN
TOWN ASSESSOR'S OFFICE
RESOLUTION NO.: 507. 2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 289,2003, the Queensbury Town Board authorized
the Town Assessor to hire Howard Bluege to work approximately 30 hours a week in the
Town Assessor's Office from June 23rd, 2003 through November 30th, 2003, and
WHEREAS, the Town Assessor has advised the Town Board that one of the
employees in her office will be out for an extended period of time and therefore has
requested Town Board authorization to extend the term of employment for Mr. Bluege
through April 30th, 2004, and
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
59
WHEREAS, Town Policy requires that familial relationships must be disclosed
and the Town Board must approve the appointment of Town employees' relatives, and
Mr. Bluege is the husband of Helen Otte, Town Assessor, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board has considered the Assessor's request and agrees that
such extension of employment is appropriate and necessary,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes the extension of
the employment of Howard Bluege to work in the Town Assessor's Office on a part-time,
temporary basis working approximately 30 hours per week through April 30th, 2004, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that Mr. Bluege shall continue to be paid a wage of$12 per hour to be
paid from the appropriate payroll account, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town
Assessor, Town Comptroller and/or Town Supervisor's Office to complete any forms and
take any action necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor
NOES None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING ON PROPOSED
MODIFICATION OF TAPPING FEES FOR WATER DEPARTMENT
RESOLUTION NO.: 508.2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury previously established tapping fees to cover
the cost of Town ownership and installation of water services and meters installed for
residents and businesses receiving Town water service, and
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
60
WHEREAS, the Town Water Superintendent has informed the Town Board that as a
result of an increase in material and labor costs as well as increased safety policies, he
recommends that the Town Board increase its tapping fees to reflect such price increases,
and
WHEREAS, the Water Superintendent has proposed a new tapping fee schedule as
follows:
Tap size Present fee with Proposed fee with Present meter Proposed meter
meter meter charge charge
%" short $400 $475 $200 $225
%" long $550 $750 $200 $225
1" short $600 $750 $275 $365
1" long $800 $1150 $275 $365
1 IIz" short $900 $1050 $450 $525
1 1Iz" long $1200 $1500 $450 $525
2" short $1200 $1550 $500 $650
2"long $1500 $2000 $500 $650
[The above fees do not include any blasting to remove rock. The cost for any required
blasting will be added to the applicable fee.]
and
WHEREAS, in accordance with Queensbury Town Code 9173-27, the Town Board
must hold a public hearing before modifying the tapping fee schedule,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board shall hold a public hearing on
December 15th, 2003 at 7:00 p.m. at the Queensbury Activities Center, 742 Bay Road,
Queensbury to hear all interested parties and citizens concerning the proposed modification
of tapping fees, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Queensbury
Town Clerk to publish a Notice of Hearing in the official newspaper for the Town not less
than five (5) days prior to the hearing date.
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner
NOES
None
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
61
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING HIRING OF CHRISTOPHER
SENNETT AS FULL-TIME LABORER FOR CEMETERY
DEPARTMENT
RESOLUTION NO. 509. 2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury's Cemetery Superintendent and Cemetery
Commission has advised the Town Board that there is a vacant full-time Laborer position in
the Cemetery Department, and
WHEREAS, the Cemetery Superintendent posted availability for the position,
reviewed resumes, interviewed interested candidates and has recommended the hiring of
Christopher Sennett, and
WHEREAS, Mr. Sennett previously worked for the Cemetery Department as a
Temporary Laborer,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the
Cemetery Superintendent to hire Christopher Sennett as a full-time Laborer effective
December 2nd, 2003 contingent upon Mr. Sennett passing a pre-employment physical and
subject to an eight (8) month probationary period, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs that Mr. Sennett be
paid the hourly rate of pay listed for the Laborer position in the current CSEA Contract, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Supervisor, Cemetery Superintendent and/or Town Comptroller to complete any forms and
take any action necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
62
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec
NOES
None
ABSENT: None
Discussion held before vote: Supervisor Brower-This resolution to hire a full time laborer
Christopher Sennett in the Cemetery Department. The effective date will be December 2nd.
2003. The only thing I want to mention the Cemetery has been kind of a trying area for the
Town Board particularly for me as Supervisor. When I came into office we were two
hundred and fifty five thousand in the red at the Cemetery, last year we improved our
position to about one hundred and seventy five thousand in the red and this year we are back
to a quarter of a million in the red, again for the coming budget season. We have not made
a lot of progress in being able to reduce our costs although we have increased in creased the
cost of services we have increased the cost of buying lots three times, and yet we still
operate at a tremendous deficit at that facility. It is consider an entrepreneurial endeavor in
that not all municipalities are involved in cemeteries or their upkeep. Yet, I know that those
individuals and families who have relatives that are located in the cemetery or plan to locate
themselves in the cemetery in the future, it has certainly great significance. It has been an
area of frustration although the cemetery superintendents have worked with the Town Board
in trying to increase our revenues at the facility, we continue to operate at a deficit.
Although Highway does the same thing, every individual, all citizens benefit from highway
where only individual utilizing the services of the cemetery actually benefit from the
cemetery operations. So, it is an area of frustration but it is one of reality and we certainly
have not made much progress in the four years I have been on the Town Board. It remains
an area of frustrations to me. Vote taken
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING EDWARD Mo BITTLE, SRo
AS ELECTRICAL INSPECTOR FOR COMMONWEALTH
ELECTRICAL INSPECTION SERVICE, INCo
RESOLUTION NO.: 510.2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, Queensbury Town Code Chapter 80 delineates criteria for businesses
and/or individuals to perform electrical inspections within the Town and by previous
Resolution the Town Board determined that Commonwealth Electrical Inspection Service,
Inc., met this criteria, and
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
63
WHEREAS, Commonwealth Electrical Inspection Service, Inc., has hired Edward
M. Bittle, Sr., as an electrical inspector and has requested that the Town Board approve Mr.
Bittle as an approved inspector, and
WHEREAS, the Town's Director of Building and Code Enforcement has reviewed
Mr. Bittle's credentials and has recommended that the Town Board authorize him to
perform electrical inspections within the Town,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes Edward M. Bittle,
Sr., of Commonwealth Electrical Inspection Service, Inc., to make electrical inspections
within the Town of Queensbury subject to compliance with the standards set forth in
Queensbury Town Code Chapter 80, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town's
Director of Building and Code Enforcement to take any action necessary to effectuate the
terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer
NOES
None
ABSENT: None
Councilman Brewer-left the meeting.
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING SAFE DEPOSIT BOX RENTAL AGREEMENT
BETWEEN THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY AND EVERGREEN BANK
RESOLUTION NO.: 511. 2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, the Town Clerk has advised that it is necessary to enter into a rental
agreement for a safe deposit box with Evergreen Bank, and
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
64
WHEREAS, such rental agreement will designate that the Town Clerk and Deputy
Town Clerk I shall have access to such safety deposit box,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes the Town Clerk to
enter into a rental agreement with Evergreen Bank for a safe deposit box, such agreement to
designate that the Town Clerk and Deputy Town Clerk I shall be designated to have access
to such box, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Clerk
and/or Town Supervisor to sign any documentation and take such further action as may be
necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brower
NOES None
ABSENT: Mr. Brewer
Discussion held before vote: Town Clerk Dar1een Dougher noted
that the Town has had the safety deposit box at First National for
over thirty years, this box has the Abraham Wing Diary and the
Town Patent.. . this resolution will list Deputy Town Clerk Caroline
Barber and myself to gain entry to the box.
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ENGAGEMENT OF PENFLEX, INCo
SERVICE AWARD PROGRAM SPECIALISTS TO PROVIDE 2003
STANDARD YEAR END ADMINISTRATION SERVICES
RESOLUTION NO.: 512.2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board wishes to engage the servIces of
PENFLEX, INe. Service Award Program Specialists to provide the 2003 Standard Year
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
65
End Administration Services for the Town of Queensbury's Volunteer Firefighter Service
Award Program as outlined in PENFLEX's Service Fee Agreement presented at this
meeting, and
WHEREAS, PENFLEX will provide these services for the estimated cost of $8,800,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves and authorizes the
engagement of PENFLEX, INe. to provide the 2003 Standard Year End Administration
Services for the Town's Volunteer Firefighter Service Award Program at the estimated cost
of $8,800 to be paid from the appropriate account, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Supervisor to execute the agreement with PENFLEX, INe. presented at this meeting and
take any other action necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor
NOES
None
ABSENT
Mr. Brewer
RESOLUTION TO AMEND 2003 BUDGET
RESOLUTION NO.: 513. 2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, the attached Budget Amendment Requests have been duly initiated and
justified and are deemed compliant with Town operating procedures and accounting
practices by the Town Comptroller,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
66
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the
Town Comptroller's Office to take all action necessary to transfer funds and amend the
2003 Town Budget as follows:
CEMETERY
FROM:
TO:
$ AMOUNT:
02-8810-4090
(Conference-Regis. & Attendance)
02-8810-4410
(Fuel for Vehicles)
75.
02-1680-2031
(Computer Hardware)
02-8810-4410
(Fuel for Vehicles)
185.
02-8810-4300-0011
(Postage)
02-8810-4410
(Fuel for Vehicles)
200.
02-8810-1410
(Laborer, PT)
WASTEWATER
02-8810-4230
(Purchase of Water)
400.
FROM:
TO:
$ AMOUNT:
034-8120-2001
(Misc. Equipment)
034-8120-4400
(Misc. Contractual)
900.
034-8120-2300
(Metering Devices)
034-8130-4425
(Sewage Treat & Disposal)
5,000.
034-8120-4520
(Odor Control)
034-8130-4425
(Sewage Treat & Disposal)
3,000.
WATER
FROM: TO: $ AMOUNT:
040-1680-2031 040-8310-4010 700.
(Comp. Hardware) (Office Supplies)
040-1680-4791 040-8310-4190 1,340.
(Equipment Cont.) (Admin. Refunds)
ELECTIONS
FROM: TO: $ AMOUNT:
01-1450-4156 01-1450-1002 6,000.
(Temp. Pers. Svc.) (Misc. Payroll)
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES Mr. Stec, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner
NOES None
ABSENT: Mr. Brewer
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
67
Councilman Brewer-Re-entered the meeting
RESOLUTION APPROVING ESTABLISHMENT OF RESIDENTIAL FACILITY
FOR EIGHT DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED PERSONS
AT 123 CRONIN ROAD IN THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY
RESOLUTION NO.: 514.2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, in accordance with New York State Mental Hygiene Law 941.34(c)(I),
AIM Services, Inc., (AIM) has notified the Town of Queensbury that it wishes to build a
residential facility at 123 Cronin Road in Queensbury to serve as an Individual Residential
Alternative (IRA) for eight (8) developmentally disabled persons, and
WHEREAS, in accordance with NYS Mental Hygiene Law 941.34(c)(I), the Town
has forty days after receipt of notification to respond to AIM's request, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to work together with AIM to create residential
opportunities to allow people with developmental disabilities the opportunity to reside in
normal community settings, close to their families and friends, while allowing normal, life-
enriching experiences,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves AIM Services,
Inc.' s request to establish an Individual Residential Alternative (IRA) at 123 Cronin
Road, Queensbury, such IRA to be a community-based, 24-hour on-site supervised
program staffed by trained counselors providing habilitation services and supervision to
eight (8) developmentally disabled residents, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town
Supervisor to forward a certified copy of this Resolution to AIM and take such other and
further action as may be necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
68
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
Discussion held: Councilman Turner voiced concern regarding the heavy traffic in that area.
RESOLUTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING ON PROPOSED LOCAL LAW
NO. OF 2003 TO ESTABLISH TEMPORARY MORATORIUM ON USE OF
NEW OUTDOOR FURNACES
RESOLUTION NO. 515. 2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to consider adoption of Local Law No.: _ of
2003 entitled, "A Local Law to Amend the Queensbury Town Code by Adding a New
Chapter 119 Entitled, "Outdoor Furnace Moratorium'" which Law shall authorize a
temporary moratorium on the use of any new outdoor furnace within the Town of
Queensbury for a period of 180 days after the effective date of the Local Law, and
WHEREAS, this legislation IS authorized III accordance with New York State
Municipal Home Rule Law 910, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to set a public hearing concerning adoption
of this Local Law,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board shall meet and hold a public hearing
at the Queensbury Activities Center, 742 Bay Road, Queensbury at 7:00 p.m. on December
15th, 2003 to hear all interested persons and take any necessary action provided by law
concerning proposed Local Law No.: _ of2003, and
BE IT FURTHER,
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
69
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Queensbury
Town Clerk to publish and post a Notice of Public Hearing concerning proposed Local Law
No. _ of2003 in the manner provided by law.
Duly adopted this 1 st day of December, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES
Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer
NOES
None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION ACCEPTING DEDICATION OF CONTINUATION OF
BERRY PATCH DRIVE, BLUEBERRY TERRACE AND
FARMINGTON PLACE IN FARMINGTON GROVE SUBDIVISION
RESOLUTION NO. 516.2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, T & B Associates, LLC has offered a deed to dedicate the continuation
of Berry Patch Drive, Blueberry Terrace and Farmington Place in the Farmington Grove
Subdivision to the Town of Queensbury as described in a Survey prepared by VanDusen &
Steves, Land Surveyors, LLC, and
WHEREAS, the Town Highway Superintendent has inspected the roads and
recommended their acceptance contingent upon the developer completing the top coat of
the black-top within two years of the date of acceptance or December 1 s\ 2005 and
drainage easement boundaries being defined and in place, and
WHEREAS, T & B Associates, LLC, has provided the Town with a $35,000 cash
escrow to ensure placement of the top coat on the roads by December 1 st, 2005, and
WHEREAS, the Town Water Superintendent has confirmed that installation of
water mains and appurtenances has been made in accordance with Town Water Department
standards, and
WHEREAS, the form of the deed and title to the road offered for dedication have
been reviewed by Town Counsel,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
70
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby accepts and approves the
deed for dedication of the continuation of Berry Patch Drive, Blueberry Terrace and
Farmington Place in the Farmington Grove Subdivision contingent upon Town Counsel's
receipt of an acceptable deed and real estate forms and also contingent upon the road sign
being corrected from Blueberry "Trace" to Blueberry "Terrace" prior to issuance of building
permits on that road, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to
execute, sign and affix the Town seal to any and all documents necessary to complete the
transaction including an Escrow Agreement in form acceptable to Town Counsel and the
Town Comptroller, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs T & B Associates,
LLC to record the deed in the Warren County Clerk's Office, after which time the deed shall
be properly filed and maintained in the Queensbury Town Clerk's Office, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Clerk
to add the roads to the official inventory of Town Highways as follows:
Name:
Berry Patch Drive (Continuation)
Road Number: 522
Description: Beginning at Bay Road and continuing in an easterly direction a
distance of 1.330 feet and .25 hundredths of a mile and ending at
Berry Patch Drive.
Feet: 1330' and .25 of a mile
Name: Blueberry Terrace
Road Number: 536
Description: Beginning at Berry Patch Drive and continuing III a southerly
direction a
distance of 454 feet and .09 hundredths of a mile and ending at a
dead end.
Feet: 454' and .09 of a mile
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
71
Name:
Farmington Place
Road Number: 537
Description: Beginning at Berry Patch Drive and continuing m a northerly
direction a
distance of 5 88 feet and .11 hundredths of a mile and ending at a
cul-de-sac.
Feet: 588' and .11 of a mile
Duly adopted this 18t day of December, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES None
ABSENT: None
Discussion held before vote: Town Clerk Dougher-Blueberry Terrace is on the resolution
but the sign says Blueberry Trace, noted the road sign has to be changed to Blueberry
Terrace.. . Board agreed to amend the resolution to state this no building permit will be
issued until the sign is changed.
7.0 ACTION OF RESOLUTION PREVIOUSLY INTRODUCED FORM THE
FLOOR
NONE
8.0 TOWN BOARD DISCUSSIONS
Councilman Boor-None
Councilman Turner-Received call from Fort Amherst road area, storm
sewers need to be cleaned out.
Councilman Stec-Noted received calls on the proposed subdivision off
Dixon Road adjacent to the Northway, this is a localized issue, I have
concerns about the density myself and some other issues that have been
brought up. Planning Board needs to be aware of the calls.
Councilman Brewer-Noted E-mail regarding light on Luzerne Road can
we get a resolution prepared in the next two weeks?
Councilman Turner-Yes.
Councilman Brewer-What is planned for next workshop. Mr. Carte
approached me would like to speak to the Board regarding the approved
subdivision on West Mountain Road.
Councilman Boor-I do not want to look like sticking our hands III
Planning Board business.
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
72
Councilman Stec-He is aware of that but has broader concerns that would
be more general. He understands that the Town Board cannot undue that
but he has concerns about the process.
Town Counsel Hafner-Noted that things are not finished and Article 78
has not expired, I would not recommend that you to talk to them about...
Supervisor Brower-Noted he had the same concern that if this was to go
to court anything the Board might say or not say could be utilized against
the town.
Councilman Stec-Noted it might be simpler to wait until the statutory
times have lapsed.
Councilman Brewer-I do not think he intends to ask us about the Article
78.
Councilman Boor-I am going with what Counsel says and protect the
citizens and the taxpayers.
Councilman Brewer-Where are we with the local law regarding garbage
pickup?
Town Counsel Hafner-In the process for early next year.
Supervisor Brower-Tomorrow night at 7 p.m. Queensbury Activity
Center Informational Meeting with people that are bordering the water
improvement expansion in the Town. Wednesday the 3rd. 7:00 pm
Housing Forum at the Queensbury Activity Center Thanked Evergreen
Bank and Community Insurance for continuing to sponsor the Town
Board meeting on TV8 and Adelphia Channel 71.
Town Clerk Dougher-Announced the Tree lighting Ceremony on
December 5th 6:00 P.M. to 8:00 P.M.
Director Round-Looking for Attorney Client with the Town Board on
December 10th or 18th to discuss legal issues Main Street underground
utilities.
Supervisor Brower-Noted that will be December 10th
9.0 ATTORNEY MATTERS
10.0 EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR AN EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 517.2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR ITS
ADOPTION
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING 12-01-2003 MTG. #57
73
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
RESOL VED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby
moves into an Executive Session to discuss personnel issues, contract
issues and Attorney Client.
Duly adopted this 1st day of December, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING MEETING
RESOLUTION NO. 518.2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR ITS
ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
RESOL VED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby
adjourns its Executive Session and be it further
RESOL VED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby
adjourns its Regular Session.
Duly adopted this 1st day of December, 2003 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Brower
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Respectfully submitted,
Miss Darleen M. Dougher
Town Clerk-Queensbury