2003-12-08 SP
Special Town Board Meeting, 12-08-2003, Mtg #58
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SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
DECEMBER 8TH, 2003
7:00 P.M.
MTG #58
RES. #519-522
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
SUPERVISOR DENNIS BROWER
COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR
COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER
COUNCILMAN DANIEL STEC
COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER
TOWN OFFICIALS
Harry Hansen, Director of Parks & Recreation
Doug Irish, Recreation Commission Chairman
Ralph VanDusen, W ater/W astewater Superintendent
Mike Shaw, Deputy Wastewater Superintendent
Helen Otte, Assessor
SUPERVISOR BROWER called meeting to order...
RESOLUTIONS - NONE
DISCUSSIONS
COMMUNITY CENTER CONSULTANT DISCUSSION - RECREATION COMMISSION
MR. DOUG IRISH, Chairman reviewed with the Town Board the process of selecting a
professionally licensed project consultant to assist in the design and possibly the subsequent
development of a multi-recreational community center facility and recommended hiring North
Country Engineering as the consultant...
(submittal from the Recreation Commission on file in the Town Clerk's Office)
SUPERVISOR BROWER questioned the scope of work.
MR. IRISH, Chairman reviewed scope of work, noting that the consultant will help the town form a
design concept, put together an RFP for the architect, review the architect bids, hire an architect, and
help the architect put together the RFP's for the construction phase.... He'll work right through until
the town hires a General Contractor and Project Manger...
TOWN BOARD held discussion, agreed to move forward and have resolution prepared for Monday
night's Regular Town Board Meeting.
CHANGE ORDER FOR ROUTE 9 SEWER PROJECT - C. T. MALE
MR. RALPH VANDUSEN, W ater/W astewater Superintendent and MR. MIKE SHAW, Deputy
Wastewater Superintendent spoke to the Town Board regarding Change Order request for Route 9
Sewer Project and agreed to the Change Order with the amount of$48,500 and will advise counsel
to prepare resolution for Monday night's Regular Town Board Meeting.
EASEMENTS FOR WATER TRANSMISSION PROJECT - RALPH VANDUSEN
MR. RALPH VANDUSEN, Water/Wastewater Superintendent-Noted that they conducted a public
information meeting for the people who live along the route of the water transmission line and we
mailed out letters to everybody along the route and along with those letters went a form that they
were asked to sign giving us permission to go on their property to hand dig to do the archeological
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survey, and some information that we, just preliminary in fact, that we would be asking them in the
near future for an easement to install a water line on their property. In some cases it's just a
construction easement, in other cases it's a permanent easement and explained to them that
traditionally we don't pay anything for easements, that we expect the people are benefiting from the
addition of the water line in front of their home and typically a reduction in their fire insurance rates,
the availability of a second source of water should their well go bad or they can switch over
immediately to town water if they wish. A few people were happy with that, there were probably
between twenty and twenty-five people there, I would guess at the meeting which is about half of
the number of easements that we have. I would say approximately half of those that were there felt
that they should be compensated in some shape or form for giving the easements.... Town Board
held discussion regarding compensation versus eminent domain, types of compensation and agreed
to offer compensation of the tapping installation with restoration of the property per easement as the
water line is being installed. . .
BAY ROAD SEWER
COUNCILMAN BOOR referred to letter from Jon Lapper representing Schermerhorn stating that
they are not going to accept the town's latest offer. . . .
MR. MIKE SHAW, Deputy Wastewater Superintendent-They sat across the table at one time and
what we thought agreed to paying a share of two hundred and eighty thousand and that's been
whittled down to a point where they're paying two hundred eighteen thousand, even promised to
pay that and at some reason at the ninth hour decided to back out of that. Maybe we should have a
cooling off period.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-I spoke with Jon Lapper and Rich is objecting to the fact that Baybridge
is getting a cheaper rate then he is. .. Rich came in to my office, I talked with him for about twenty
minutes then called Henry in, we talked together for another twenty minutes and I told Rich, he
thinks he's being mistreated but I told him, we've dropped your price twice in these negotiation and
then I went through how we came about the difference in rates with Baybridge.... He told me he
doesn't care, it's the principal, not the money. He called back the next day and told me that he
wasn't taking the deal and he'll wait until next year and work out a deal with the new board. I told
him, you're not going to be able to connect until we have a contract in hand. I told him that I hope
he knows what he's doing, this is really fair to you and every other party involved. He said, I don't,
if you'll bring my rate to the same rate as Baybridge, I'll sign but not until you do...
COUNCILMAN BREWER-How did our costs go down, his costs go down, Valente's costs go
down.
COUNCILMAN STEC-And Baybridge only go up three thousand.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Where did we make the mistake with the original price?
MR. SHAW, Deputy Wastewater Superintendent-He's talking about the original map, plan and
report. This whole thing started once again, Rich had made an offer, a proposal and he had used
square footage as a base and he comprised a square footage method and he was going to pay two
hundred eighty-one thousand. So, through the negotiations, it went back to water usage and in that
negotiation, the numbers per gallon maybe changed, the rate was there certainly but he was paying
much less, you think he would be happy with paying sixty thousand dollars less.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I understand him paying less and all that, but an apartment or a
dwelling should be the same rate whether it's got two people or twelve people in it...
MR. SHAW, Deputy Wastewater Superintendent-The original map, plan and report, if the board
remembers, wanted to help Baybridge out in there problems over there, agreed to give them a break
and they were paying forty thousand dollars and that was a number they said they could afford. The
idea with this new negotiation is to try to keep it at the rate, within the ballpark and stay within the
map, plan and report so our costs don't go over. Was Rich paying more when he originally set his
map, plan and report, yes but he said he wanted to pay two eighty one, we've negotiated it down to
two eighteen and he still doesn't want to pay.
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COUNCILMAN BREWER-I understand that but I think if we go back, you have to treat them
equal, I don't care who lives there...
MR. SHAW, Deputy Wastewater Superintendent-You certainly could do that, you can take the
dollars and take the gallons and divide one in the other and say okay, this is what it is but it's not
going to be like the map, plan and report. You're going to throw that all out the door and you're
starting from scratch.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-The reason why Baybridge is at what it's at is they agreed to it and that's
what the map, plan and report calls for.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-But they've got nothing invested Roger.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-The only one who really has anything invested is Schermerhorn. But
remember this, we told Rich too that in every other district extension, the party that's doing the
expansion, runs the infrastructure and then turns it over to the town, we don't pay a dime.
COUNCILMAN STEC-He would say what, that he wouldn't have built it the way he did, he built it
that way for us.
MR. SHAW, Deputy Wastewater Superintendent-Yes but every other district extension is built to
our specs. So, if he was going to extend anyway, he would have built it to our specs, the same way
he built it now so that argument is out the window. All the other district extensions were built to
our specs to serve the district. It seems like we were moving in the right direction but now it's.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well, I think we just hold fast but he's certainly not going to hook
anything up if! have my say. . .
SUPERVISOR BROWER-I thought we were very close, I was very disappointed when he called
back and said he's not taking it. .. So, that's where we stand on that.
REV ALUA TION CONTRACTORS - HELEN OTTE
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO.: 519,2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHO MOVED IT'S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from
Regular Session and enters Executive Session to discuss Contract Proposals.
Duly adopted this 8th day of December, by the following vote:
AYES:
Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer
NOES:
None
ABSENT:
None
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RESOLUTION TO RECONVENE
RESOLUTION NO.: 520,2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHO MOVED IT'S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from
Executive Session and enters Regular Session of the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury.
Duly adopted this 8th day of December, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES:
Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer
NOES:
None
ABSENT:
None
DISCUSSION - POSITION TITLE
COUNCILMAN STEC-It's my opinion, going forward looking into how I want to try to do things
at the town the next two years as Supervisor, that I would prefer to not have a Comptroller
position... It's my understanding after having it explained and reviewing it mostly with Town
Counsel, is that we can have a position other then Comptroller, entitled Budget Officer. The job
description, and I don't have it in front of me, I know that they're working on preparing a resolution
but the job description would essentially state that the position of Budget Officer would be to
support the Town Supervisor, fulfill his statutory requirements as the Chief Fiscal Officer for the
town. We could go and in fact, I would highly suggest going an added step in clarifying it even
further and spelling out duties very similar to the current Comptroller job description, which begs
the next question, well, why would you do that if it' s going to be almost the same job, what are the
differences, or what are the advantages and disadvantages. Essentially, what we're talking about
doing is making it an at-will, the only fundamental difference is, as I understand it, from the
Counsel's Office is that the only difference is, this at-will function that perhaps the Town Board
would have, you can insert the word, flexibility or control or added accountability, added
opportunities for review of the operations that I think would give the town, my word would be
greater flexibility. So, I think that there's value in that, I felt that way two years ago, I still feel that
way today and I know we've had a lot of discussions one on one but for the purpose of some public
discussion, I wanted to bring that up tonight.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Budget Officer would be the title you would be looking at?
COUNCILMAN STEC-It's my understanding that the position has to exist for the County to
recognize it, or we need to go through some added steps to create a job, post it or describe it at the
County and the County at some point would review it and say okay, we recognize this position that
you're trying to create...
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Why would you want to go backwards?
COUNCILMAN STEC-I have a different idea of what I want to see out of that office and I want to
take a large role myself, not necessarily do I want to do all of that job but I think that there will be
portions of that, that I have background for that I could perform....
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Let's assume we go another route and we don't have a Comptroller, is this
position at the discretion of the Supervisor to let this person go or the Town Board?
COUNCILMAN STEC-I don't know what the law says, I understand that the law may say that it is
a position that is under the discretion of the Supervisor but personally, if you're asking what my
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intentions are or if you're asking what I would be willing to stipulate within whatever the law would
allow, it's not my intention to say that I want the sole authority to hire and fire, I think it should be
the Town Board.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Yea, I don't think that's healthy.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I think it should be too.
COUNCILMAN STEC-I'm not trying to assert that all but what I don't know is I don't honestly
know what's allowed in the law.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-My discussion with Bob (Hafner), I came away with a few things, one is
that the comptroller as it exists today, his duty is to report to the Supervisor, not the Town Board
and that would be the same with what you are saying. He did not specify firing, but the
responsibility is to report to Dennis now because he's Supervisor.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Oh, I misunderstood the question. As far as reporting goes, I mean that
was one of the frustrations that I had as a Councilman and one of the things that I campaigned on
was, just in general things that I wanted done differently from the Councilman's perspective, I
would strive to do as Supervisor. So, I would prefer to see the Board have more direct interaction
from a reporting standpoint. I mean, obviously, the Supervisor is in the day to day position where
I'll have more opportunity to do then the rest of you but certainly if John Strough comes in and says,
I want this, and you know they discuss a time line and say, okay give me a week and I'll do that for
you, as a Supervisor, I wouldn't at all have a problem. .. My intention would be to give each Board
Member more input into the position...
COUNCILMAN BOOR-If we were to go with something like a Budget Officer, could they be fired
without cause?
COUNCILMAN STEC- They would be like any other.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-So, a Budget Officer could be fired just as Chris Round could, Chuck
Rice?
COUNCILMAN STEC- Yes.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-So, essentially, the status would be the same as a Department Head, not an
appointed with a two year term?
COUNCILMAN STEC-Correct. What I'm envisioning is someone more like those other
Department Heads, a position more like the other Department Head Positions....
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Do you know what the position was before we had Comptroller?
COUNCILMAN STEC-I think it was Budget Officer and I know that since we've had the
Comptroller's Position, the Budget Officer has been the Town Supervisor.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Salary for a Budget Officer?
COUNCILMAN STEC-I think that's something that certainly the Board would have to discuss.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Because between you and I would not like to start it where the
Comptroller is now.
COUNCILMAN STEC-No, well, we would need to determine which band is the appropriate band.
Again, I think if we're talking about similar duties, I think we're talking about a similar band, but
then I think after that, it's largely dependent on who the individual is and if the individual is the
current Comptroller, then I'm not suggesting that we look for ways to cut an individual's salary.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-No, I know.
COUNCILMAN STEC-I think it would depend on who the person is.
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COUNCILMAN BOOR-Experience and what they're bringing.
COUNCILMAN STEC-Right and that would be a Board's decision just like all the other decisions.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-Just so that I'm on the record, I just want you to know that I oppose
changing the position from Comptroller to any other at-will position. I think the two year provision
is important for any professional coming to a job to know they have a guarantee for two years at
least, they can't be fired at will, that there is some job security there and I think that if you hire a
professional like we have, with good credentials, you don't have to worry about the fact that they're
going to get the job done.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Not to argue the point, but isn't Chris Round a professional, doesn't he
have credentials?
SUPERVISOR BROWER- Yes but the state specific provides for the position of Comptroller which
is a Town Board appointed position.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-But that's not what you said, you said someone with credentials and
someone professional should have a guaranteed two year position. Now, I feel, in my opinion, we
have a lot of professionals, Bob Keenan, you can go right down the line, all of our Department
Heads are professionals with credentials and they don't have that option, if you will.
SUPERVISOR BROWER-That's because the state enabled the Comptroller's position.
Town Board held further discussion regarding advantages and disadvantages of changing the title
and no decision was made...
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO.: 521,2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHO MOVED FOR IT'S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from
Regular Session and enters Executive Session to discuss a Personnel Matter.
Duly adopted this 8th day of December, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES:
Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer
NOES:
None
ABSENT:
None
RESOLUTION TO ADJOURN EXECUTIVE SESSION
AND SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
RESOLUTION NO.: 522,2003
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHO MOVED FOR IT'S ADOPTION
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SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from
Executive Session and enters Regular Session of the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns it's Special
Town Board Meeting.
Duly adopted this 8th day of December, 2003, by the following vote:
AYES:
Mr. Brower, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Stec, Mr. Brewer
NOES:
None
ABSENT:
None
No further action taken.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
DARLEEN M. DOUGHER
TOWN CLERK
TOWN OF QUEENSBURY