2000-08-24
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
SPECIAL MEETING
AUGUST 24, 2000
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
LARRY RINGER, VICE CHAIRMAN/ACTING CHAIRMAN
CHRIS HUNSINGER
JOHN STROUGH
ROBERT VOLLARO
ANTHONY METIVIER
MEMBERS ABSENT
CRAIG MAC EWAN
CATHERINE LA BOMBARD
PLANNER-LAURA MOORE
TOWN COUNSEL-MILLER, MANNIX & PRATT-MARK SCHACHNER
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
MR. RINGER-The first thing, we’ve got a couple of items that are going to be tabled. The first one
is Site Plan No. 60-2000 Independent Wireless One Leased Realty Corp., and that’s being tabled
until 9/26.
SITE PLAN NO. 60-2000 TYPE: UNLISTED INDEPENDENT WIRELESS ONE
REALTY CORP. OWNER: CITY OF GLENS FALLS AGENT: MARGARET SMITH,
PYRAMID SITE ACQUISITION SERVICES ZONE: PR-42A LOCATION: COLE’S
WOODS, SOUTH SIDE OF AVIATION MALL APPLICANT PROPOSES TO CO-
LOCATE TELECOMMUNICATIONS EQUIPMENT ON EXISTING WATER TANK.
IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 179-73.1
MR. RINGER- We have a public hearing scheduled for that, which we’ll open now, and leave open
until the 26.
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PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. RINGER-The next item that’s being tabled it PUD Site Plan No. 44-2000 Michaels
Group/Waverly Place
PUD SITE PLAN 44-2000 FEIS: 7/2/87, RES. 201 MICHAELS GROUP (WAVERLY
PLACE) OWNER: SAME ZONE: PUD LOCATION: SOUTHWEST
INTERSECTION OF HAVILAND ROAD AND MEADOWBROOK ROAD
PRELIMINARY REVIEW OF SITE PLAN/SUBDIVISION FOR IMMEDIATE AND
FUTURE DEVELOPMENT INCLUDING 56 TWIN TOWNHOUSE UNITS, 35,000 SQ.
FT. OF OFFICE SPACE AND 48 MULTI-FAMILY UNITS AND 12 +/- ACRES FOR
RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES. THE DEVELOPMENT IS PART OF THE HILAND
PARK PUD THAT OFFERS GUIDELINES FOR RESIDENTIAL OPTIONS AND
RECREATIONAL AND OFFICE SPACE FOR CONVENIENCE TO RESIDENTS.
BEAUTIFICATION COMM.: 6/12/00 WARREN CO. PLANNING: 6/14/00 TAX MAP
NO. 60-1-2 LOT SIZE: 74.46 ACRES SECTION: 179-58
MR. RINGER-And that application is being tabled until September 19, and again, the public
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hearing had been opened on that, and left open, and it will be held open for the meeting of the 19.
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PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
MR. RINGER-And I need a resolution to table the Waverly Place.
MOTION TO TABLE PUD SITE PLAN NO. 44-2000 MICHAELS GROUP/WAVERLY
PLACE, Introduced by Robert Vollaro who moved for its adoption, seconded by John Strough:
Until September 19. The reason for tabling is we’re awaiting the C.T. Male response to the
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applicant’s response.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
Duly adopted this 24 day of August, 2000, by the following vote:
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AYES: Mr. Strough, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Vollaro, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Ringer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. MacEwan
MR. RINGER-Laura, do I need to table?
MRS. MOORE-You should make a resolution for the Independent Wireless.
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 60-2000 INDEPENDENT WIRELESS ONE
LEASED REALTY CORP., Introduced by Larry Ringer who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Robert Vollaro:
Until the 26 of September, and the reason for that is they still need some contractual negotiations
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going on with the City of Glens Falls for putting the towers on top of their water towers.
Duly adopted this 24 day of August, 2000, by the following vote:
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MR. STROUGH-Is that going to be the 19, too?
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MR. RINGER-That is scheduled for the 26. I’m tabling that until the 26, John.
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AYES: Mr. Vollaro, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Strough, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Ringer
NOES: NONE
MR. RINGER-And then the other change to the agenda tonight is we’ve moving Subdivision No.
10-73, 1-76 Northwest Village, Section I & II to the first item on the agenda tonight.
OLD BUSINESS:
SUBDIVISION NO. 10-73, 1-76 NORTHWEST VILLAGE, SECTION I & II OWNER:
WEST MT. LIQUIDATING PARTNERSHIP AGENT: MICHAEL BRANDT
MODIFICATION APPLICANT PROPOSES TO MODIFY SECTIONS I & II OF THE
NORTHWEST VILLAGE SUBDIVISION. SECTION I INVOLVES LOTS 1, 2, & 3 AND
SECTION II INVOLVES LOTS 26, 27, 28, AND 29, ETC. ANY MODIFICATION TO
PLANNING BOARD APPROVED SUBDIVISION REQUIRES PLANNING BOARD
REVIEW AND APPROVAL.
MIKE BRANDT, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Subdivision No. 10-73, 1-76, Northwest Village, Section I & II, Meeting Date:
August 24, 2000 “Project Description Applicant proposes boundary line adjustments to two
sections of the Northwest Village subdivision. Modifications to Planning Board approved
subdivisions require review and approval. Northwest Village Section One The modification is to
the deed that will be prepared for Lot #2. The deed will include a provision that gives the owner of
Lot #2 access to Birchfield. The existing deed for lots on Birchfield allows access from Lot#1 and
Lot#3 not Lot #2. Northwest Village Section Two A lot line adjustment to lots numbered 29,
28, 27, and 26 as shown on subdivision map dated July 30, 1976. The modification combines lots 29
and 28 into one lot, adjusts the square footage of an area labeled as “vehicular & pedestrian access”,
and relabeled the “vehicular & pedestrian access” to “common” to lots numbered 26, 27, 28 for
purpose of vehicular access. A revised drawing dated August 14, 2000 shows the lot line
adjustments. A deed will be made indicating the two owners will maintain the “to be deeded in
common…” area. The proposed modifications meet the original intent of the subdivision to
maintain a cluster-like subdivision and to use the natural setting around the lots to enhance the
subdivision.”
MR. RINGER-Thank you. Would you introduce yourself.
MR. BRANDT-Hi. I’m Mike Brandt, and I’m here to represent West Mountain Liquidating
Partnership in this matter, and I’ll gladly answer any questions.
MR. RINGER-Mike, why don’t you tell us what you want to do, take the mic with you to the map, if
you want to go to the map.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MR. BRANDT-I’m not sure how all this happened, except that the rules changed as we went along.
This is an old subdivision, and as we built it, Northwest Road goes up through here. Stonebridge
Road across here, and we had set up a piece of land called Birchfield, so it could be made into a road.
However, the first two people that built in here, on Lot One and Lot Three, asked that it not be
deeded to the Town and be kept as a private road, now the last lot in here was sold recently, and that
gentleman said, well, why don’t you deed me that, and I’ll honor the right of ways for the other
people, and then there’ll be clean ownership on a private road, which we thought made sense, but it
isn’t legal. So it requires your approval to do that. Everybody’s happy with the solution, except that
it has to be approved by the Planning Board.
MR. RINGER-Okay. Any questions?
MR. STROUGH-Okay. I’m glad you made that clear to me, because I wasn’t quite sure what was
going on, but now I see what’s going on. Now is that the same thing that’s going on up above, by
Dr. Hendricks?
MR. BRANDT-Let’s look at that one.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, I have a question on that first one.
MR. BRANDT-Okay.
MR. VOLLARO-What are the curb cuts on the Lot One and Three now? How do people get out of
Lot One and Three onto Birchfield?
MR. BRANDT-They go out, as the driveway is shown, Lot One also intersects with Birchfield, the
driveway goes out into that, and those driveways have been in existence for 20 some years, and these
two homes have been sold and re-sold, and the title companies are happy with what’s there. It’s just
a technicality. It doesn’t comply with the law. So I really need your approval, so that everything’s
clean and finished. That’s the last lot in this subdivision, and it will be all sold out.
MR. STROUGH-Are you going to share the snow plowing expenses?
MR. BRANDT-They take care of that themselves, and the fellow that really bought this last lot said
he’ll open it. He’s a contractor, and they don’t have any problem between any of them.
MR. RINGER-John had a previous question that you didn’t get your answer to.
MR. BRANDT-On the upper ones?
MR. STROUGH-I don’t know if the Board’s done with this map, before we go to the other?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes.
MR. STROUGH-Okay.
MR. BRANDT-The other one, I think, is kind of an error, when the map was made, in that this is
the original map, and it shows a dotted line along here, and it says, vehicular and pedestrian access.
Well, we want to combine Lot 28 and 29, and so the Town asked us to make a new map, which we
did, and in the new map, you’ll see a very defined course here that can be surveyed, and it basically
then shows, with survey points, where the road, which is proposed to be jointly owned, one jointly
owns, Dr. Hendricks, owns Lot 26 and 27, and his house is on the combination of those two lots,
and on this new map, 28 and 29 have been combined to be just Lot 28. What’s really the point here
is that the driveway access for Lot 28 is only 25 feet wide, but that’s all you can make there because
it’s on a pretty steep hill, and there’s a 25 foot path that’s flat, which is the driveway, and so to have
more frontage on the road doesn’t serve any purpose. I don’t know what else to tell you. I think
that, originally, that was well understood, but it wasn’t clearly defined on the map.
MR. VOLLARO-Mr. Brandt, I noticed that the utility easements have changed as well.
MR. BRANDT-The utility easement had been shown to come up along a lot line. However, Niagara
Mohawk, when they went to build it, was having trouble with it. So I suggested to them that they
just come over and go up the side of the ski trail, which they did, and so we’re just reflecting that on
the map to make it accurate. Again, this would be the last lot in this subdivision, and it would be all
sold out.
MR. STROUGH-You just have two lots available at this time?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MR. BRANDT-Yes. There was one which I’ve basically sold, and then one up here, and that’s it.
MR. HUNSINGER-You have a buyer for the upper lot as well?
MR. BRANDT-Yes, I do.
MR. VOLLARO-Mr. Brandt, does the new deed that’s going to be drawn up now will reflect the
new right of way? In other words, in the deed it will talk to the Niagara Mohawk change in right of
way?
MR. BRANDT-Yes, it will, and it’ll also show this to be owned in common by Dr. Hendrickson, the
new owner.
MR. RINGER-Did you have anything else, John?
MR. STROUGH-No.
MR. RINGER-Chris?
MR. HUNSINGER-No, I didn’t have anything.
MR. RINGER-Tony?
MR. METIVIER-Nothing.
MR. RINGER-Bob?
MR. VOLLARO-No, I’m fine now.
MR. RINGER-Okay. We don’t have a public hearing on this because it’s a modification. So if we
don’t have anything else, I’ll entertain a motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE MODIFICATION TO SUBDIVISION NO. 10-73, 1-76
NORTHWEST VILLAGE, SECTION I & II, Introduced by Robert Vollaro who moved for its
adoption, seconded by Anthony Metivier:
We’re going to modify the deed which will include a provision to give the owner of Lot Two access
to Birchfield Drive, and then we’ll have a lot line adjustment, which will essentially remove Lot 29
and Lot 28, and it will become 26, 27, and 28 only, and the deeds for Lots 26, 27, and 28, after the
change, the deed will reflect Niagara Mohawk right of way change. I see no need for further SEQRA
review since it had been done previously for both Section I and Section II.
Duly adopted this 24 day of August, 2000, by the following vote:
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MR. STROUGH-Can I get a clarification on the first part of that? Bob, you discussed that you
wanted to see the deed, I don’t know if you have the numbers straight on that. The owner of
Birchfield is going to be the owner of Lot Number Two, the way I understand it, Mike, and those
who receive the right of way will be the owners of Lot One and Three, will receive the right of way
to use Birchfield?
MR. BRANDT-Yes, that’s correct.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, I think that’s what I said, didn’t I?
MR. RINGER-I don’t know what difference it would make who owns it, as long as the lots are
defined clearly, because the owners can change over time. So, probably the way did his motion
would be okay, I would think. Mark?
MR. SCHACHNER-I agree. In other words, you don’t need to specify which parties are which. I
think the motion is to approve the subdivision modification as proposed, if I understand it correctly.
MR. RINGER-Right.
AYES: Mr. Metivier, Mr. Strough, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Vollaro, Mr. Ringer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. MacEwan
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MR. RINGER-You’re all set, Mr. Brandt.
MR. BRANDT-Thank you very much.
SITE PLAN NO. 55-98 TYPE: UNLISTED MODIFICATION JOSEPH
LEUCI/MOUNTAIN SIDE AUTO OWNER: GUIDO PASSARELLI AGENT: VAN
DUSEN & STEVES ZONE: HC-1A LOCATION: ROUTE 9 APPLICANT PROPOSES
MODIFICATIONS TO AN APPROVED SITE PLAN. MODIFICATIONS INCLUDE A
3,360 SQ. FT. ADDITION FOR AUTO REPAIR FOR OFF STREET VEHICLES
(PREVIOUS APPROVAL WAS FOR REPAIR OF ON SITE VEHICLES ONLY); OTHER
MODIFICATIONS WILL ADDRESS STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, SITE
LIGHTING, AND LOCATION OF BUILDING ISSUES FOR NON-COMPLIANCE
WITH PREVIOUS APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE: SP 14-97, SP 55-98 TAX MAP
NO. 67-2-1.3 LOT SIZE: 5.83 ACRES SECTION 179-23
TOM NACE, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT; JOE LEUCI, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 55-98 Modification, Joseph Leuci/Mountainside Auto, Meeting
Date: June 29, 2000 “Staff Notes: The application for modification to Mountain Side Auto was
tabled at the August 24, 2000 Planning Board meeting. The Planning Board requested Craig Brown
visit the site and provide recommendation to the Board about plantings in the buffer.
Landscaping, Erosion Control
As per request of the Planning Board via their 8/15/00 resolution, Craig Brown, Code Compliance
Officer for the Town of Queensbury, visited the site with Thomas W. Nace, P.E. (the applicant's
representative), Joseph Leuci, applicant, and Marilyn Ryba, Senior Planner for the Town of
Queensbury.
The applicant agreed to produce a planting plan based on suggestions from staff and the Warren
County Soil and Water Conservation District. See attached memo from Craig Brown and Planting
Plan for details. The applicant has provided a revised drawings according to discussion with staff.
Septic
As per J. O'Brien, Building Inspector for the Building Dept., traffic covers have been installed over
the seepage pit located in the parking area.
Lighting
During the 8/15/00 Planning Board meeting the applicant stated that the 2 lower mounted 400 watt
flood light fixtures on each of 5 poles will be used after hours for security purposes only. The 3
upper mounted 1,000 watt fixtures on each of 5 poles will be used during business hours only. The
Planning Board may wish to make this a condition to assure that the property is not overly lit.”
MR. RINGER-That’s it, Laura?
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
MR. RINGER-Okay. Would you identify yourself for the record?
MR. NACE-For the record, my name is Tom Nace. With me is Joe Leuci, the owner, or the
applicant.
MR. RINGER-You want to tell us a little bit about what you did since your last meeting, Tom?
MR. NACE-What we’ve done to address, we’ve met with Craig Brown and Marilyn Ryba, out at the
site. We delineated approximately where the 50 foot buffer line and approximately where the
property line is here, and approximately where that buffer line goes down the bank, the steep bank in
back. We looked at this area and decided that that did need to be filled in with trees. We all looked
at the area down the bank and decided that it was really impractical to plant trees, but we did need, at
least in a portion of that area where it was still bare, we needed some ground cover, for stabilization
and erosion control. The bank, in this area over here, has already re-vegetated itself with brush and
weeds, and is pretty well protected against any further erosion, but there is an area here that is bare,
that any major erosion here is stopped with the construction of the berm, but there’s still some
minor erosion from the rain that falls on the bank itself. I came up with a planting plan here that
shows, I believe, 21 evergreen trees with a fairly dense row of evergreens along the front, and then
filled in around the back, and then five deciduous trees sprinkled in in order to get a little bit of
variety. I also talked to John, at any rate, the representative of the Warren/Washington County Soil
Conservation District, and he sent me some recommendations on seeding of this bank.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MR. VOLLARO-John Peck.
MR. NACE-Peck, yes, thank you. He’s recommended that this fall we put down grass seed on that
and allow the grass to get established in the fall planting season, and then next spring, when they dig
their crown vetch sprigs that we plant, get some crown vetch sprigs from them and plant crown
vetch in that area. So that’s what I’ve shown on the plan.
MR. RINGER-Do we have questions from the Board? Bob, you weren’t here last week for this, but
I understand you’ve read the minutes of the meeting. So it’s brought you up to date on it, but I’ll
start with you for questions, if you’d like.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. On the drawing itself, in looking at the drawing, I can’t find, and maybe
somebody could direct me to where the handicap parking is for the 113 spaces? I don’t see them on
the drawing. There should be five spaces of handicap on there, and I don’t see them.
MR. NACE-Okay. That’s display parking, and it falls outside of the New York State Code, as far as
customer parking. Customer parking is what requires the handicap spaces.
MR. VOLLARO-But I have existing display and customer parking.
MR. NACE-Okay. I think at one point we gave a break down to Staff of how many of those were
display places and how many of them were parking for cars to be serviced, how many of them were
actual customers. I don’t have that in front of me, but I believe the numbers were under 50, and it
requires one handicap.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. So the 113 spaces do not apply, you’re saying, to customer parking? There’s
a limited amount of?
MR. NACE-Correct.
MR. VOLLARO-There’s no way to tell from here what’s customer parking and what’s existing
display parking.
MR. STROUGH-Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t you have a sign that says handicap parking,
obviously where number seven is, right in front of the building?
MR. VOLLARO-I see seven.
MR. STROUGH-Just to the right of that, and just to the right of the concrete platform is a sign that
says handicap parking.
MR. NACE-Correct, and that’s the.
MR. VOLLARO-So it’s on the site now, it’s on their site now, as you’ve seen it?
MR. STROUGH-Yes.
MR. VOLLARO-It’s not on the drawing which we’re approving, that’s my, I know where the sign is
up there, but it’s not on here.
MR. NACE-I will show the required handicap parking on the final, you know, permitted or approved
plan.
MR. VOLLARO-We can sort of put that down in the resolution. Now, when we did the resolution
for Site Plan No. 55-98, it called for an elevation view of the building, and that was never supplied, at
least I don’t have it in my packet. That was on the prior motion, for 55-98, and that was done back
on the 26 day of January of 1999. I think an elevation ought to be really supplied for this new
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building, the proposed addition as well, shouldn’t it? Shouldn’t we have an elevation in here?
MRS. MOORE-We did receive an elevation drawing for the original submission?
MR. VOLLARO-You did?
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. It’s not in our packet, though. We didn’t get that. I didn’t see it.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MRS. MOORE-There is no elevation, but it’s supposed to be consistent with the previous elevation
drawing.
MR. NACE-Yes. There was a comment from Staff, previously, and we had responded verbally, in
one of the response letters, that it would match what is there.
MR. VOLLARO-What is there now. Okay, and, Laura, you say you have a copy of that in Staff file?
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. I just had a comment on the evergreens, not on the disbursement of the
deciduous trees or the evergreens themselves, but the evergreens are specified on the drawing to be
three and a half feet high.
MR. NACE-Correct.
MR. VOLLARO-Kind of short for what we’re trying to do here. I know they grow fast. I know
evergreens grow quickly, but I’m just wondering if we ought to think a little bit about having, because
we are trying to, you know, buffer that space off from the residential area. I wonder if they ought to
be any higher than that?
MR. NACE-If you look at it, if you take a close look in the field, that’s all bank there, and it goes up
and there’s dense tree cover behind it.
MR. VOLLARO-I went up there today to look.
MR. NACE-If you went from above and tried to look down, these trees aren’t really going to, until
they’re 100 years old and 80 feet high, aren’t going to add significant buffer from the residential area
above. What they’re going to do is simply give some form to that open bank, eventually, to create,
you know, more than just an open bank of grass. So I really don’t think that height is that important,
and I’ve been here before. I grew up on a tree farm, and know from experience that the bigger you
get with the tree that you’re transplanting, the more likely that the tree is not going to survive, plus
the longer it’s going to take it to establish and start growing again.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. Have we ever fully resolved the gravel retention from the last meeting? I
read in the notes that we were concerned a little bit about gravel retention around the space itself.
There’s a dotted line that shows limits of proposed gravel surface. Now was that ever put to bed at
the last meeting? I wasn’t here on that.
MR. RINGER-Tom did make mention of some of the things they were going to try to do, and I’m
not exactly sure, remember what they were, Tom, but if you want to.
MR. NACE-Okay. Sure, and we discussed that a little bit with Staff, out in the field last week, and
that is simply that once the gravel is down and that area is established, we will seed everything else
that is not presently grass, okay, so that the grass will establish that edge.
MR. VOLLARO-So there won’t be any sort of a man made barrier in there, two by six in the ground,
or anything of that nature to separate the two?
MR. NACE-Yes. There’s nothing that really doesn’t look tacky or get plowed up when you plow it.
If you get good grass cover, that’s the best delineation we can make.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, when you go to plow this lot, though, some of that stone’s going to move
onto the grassy area, I’m sure, unless the guy plows really, really, really good.
MR. NACE-It’s easier to rake the stone out of the grass than it is to try to re-establish some edging
that you’ve ripped out of the ground.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. I know we’ve got a fairly small proposed addition, but I would like the
Building Department to, I’d like to make sure that the Building Department approves the septic
system before we get into the building permit on that addition. I just wanted to make that comment.
There is an addition that’s going to be on, it’s going to be on the same system, I guess?
MR. NACE-Correct. There will be no new facilities. Okay. It’s just extra repair bays, and storage,
bringing storage inside.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, those are the only questions I have. I don’t have anything else.
MR. RINGER-Tony?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MR. METIVIER-I have nothing further.
MR. RINGER-Chris?
MR. HUNSINGER-No. I kind of felt bad we didn’t approve this last week, and I think the plan
that’s been presented, I’m really pleased with it. So, I’m all set.
MR. RINGER-John?
MR. STROUGH-Just a clarification. I was just reading my notes from the previous meeting, and Mr.
Leuci agreed that there would be no exterior PA or sound systems. So I would like to make that a
condition, as well, and I see that, in the conditions of approval, in the motion prepared by Staff, that
the landscaping must be professionally installed and maintained, and I mean, we’re going to stick
with that language?
MRS. MOORE-That’s up to the Board. These are proposed conditions.
MR. STROUGH-Okay. Well, I just, I know that we’ve discussed that word in the past,
“professional”.
MR. SCHACHNER-I mean, my own opinion, for what it’s worth, is that’s a pretty vague condition.
I’m not exactly sure what it’s goal is, other than to make sure that there’s s a good job done, but I
would encourage the Board, if that’s an area of concern, to clarify that in some manner that’s more
specific than that language.
MR. STROUGH-Well, that’s why I brought it up. Those are the two things that I thought.
MR. RINGER-Okay. Well, when we get to a resolution tonight, we can address those.
MR. STROUGH-Okay.
MR. RINGER-We’ve got a public hearing. Anymore questions from the Board? We’ve got a public
hearing that was opened, and continued. So if there’s anyone from the public?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
DON SIPP
MR. SIPP-Don Sipp, Courthouse Drive. Joanne Bramley could not attend tonight’s meeting. She
asked me if I would read this letter to you. “Morningside Auto was originally given approval by this
Board to service only automobiles that it sold. To date, they continue to be in violation of this site
plan requirement. Has any determination been made regarding Craig Brown’s site visit? I have
repeatedly requested that the proposed addition is not an appropriate location for a full service car
dealership. When initial approval was give for this location, the current Comprehensive Land Use
Plan did not exist. However, since then, we have had the Comprehensive Land Use Plan that
specifically states that any auto repair usage is not recommended on the east side of Route 9. I again
request the Board to follow these guidelines in determining the outcome of this applicant. If the
Board is inclined to approve the addition of another building for this location, I request that the
same restriction, to service only vehicles that have been sold by Mountainside Auto, to apply to this
new site plan. Thank you for the opportunity to address my concerns.”
MR. RINGER-Thank you, sir. Anyone else? Okay. I’ll close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. RINGER-If there’s nothing else from the Board, I’m ready to entertain a motion.
MR. HUNSINGER-Can we ask the applicant about the comments?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes. I think that was a well presented position, and I think it ought to be at least
explored. I agree with you, Chris.
MR. RINGER-Well, the application was for the repair, but, go ahead, you can answer the comments,
if you feel.
MR. HUNSINGER-I guess the specific question is related to servicing only vehicles that are sold.
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MR. NACE-Regarding off site vehicle service? I think it’s been part of this current application, or
modification application, that the applicant be allowed to service off site vehicles.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, I think what her point was, Tom, was that the previous motion of 55-98
stated specifically, and I’ll read from it, it said that “This motion states that this is not a repair station
for off the street vehicles”. That was in the motion that came before us on the 26 day of January of
th
1999.
MR. LEUCI-Okay. I initiated that because I wasn’t, at that time, going to do off street repairs, okay.
So I had said at this time this is what I’d like to do. I put up a building, a lot nicer than I originally
proposed, okay. I was approved to put up just a steel building, but I went a lot further, as you all
know, put up a very nice block building. Obviously, when you put up a nice building like this, my
expenses have increased. The building has increased, everything like that. It’s just a necessary part of
business, to start doing outside repairs. It’s not going to make any difference, as far as traffic flow or
anything like that, on the outside. It’s not a big impact, if you talk about an extra few cars per day
coming in and out of the lot that we’re discussing.
MR. VOLLARO-I agree with that. I agree with what you’re saying. The problem is I know you
went through an expense to do that, and I know you put up a new building, but I think that the
gentleman who read the last statement also makes a good point on the new Comprehensive Land
Use Plan, stating that automobile repair shouldn’t be done on the east side of Route 9, and I find it
rather difficult, for me, to go ahead and approve this, or even put a motion up for approval, based on
that. That’s just my feel on it. I think that Mrs. Bramley presented, through the gentleman, a good
point, and I have to seriously think that over.
MR. HUNSINGER-Would we have to rescind that prior resolution?
MR. RINGER-No. Because the application is for the repair of vehicles, and the addition is for the
repair of vehicles. The reason this came before us, again, is the addition and the fact that he was
doing some repairs that he shouldn’t have been doing. So he had to submit the application. He has
been in violation, and that’s something that is being handled by the Code Enforcement Department,
which we have no control over.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, we don’t have any control over that, and I can understand how somebody
could make that mistake. I can understand how Mr. Leuci could have gotten into this position of
kind of, you know, repairing cars other than the warranty repairs that he does. However, when I
look at what the Comprehensive Land Use Plan has to say, that’s something that is within our
purview, and it’s something that we have to think about. I think that I have a concern, if that Use
Plan was, what she’s really saying, and I think she’s saying, let’s go ahead, if the proposed addition is
going to go in the back, but she’s trying to, there’s a trade off that she’s proposing here. The trade
off is that we don’t do off the road repairs. We continue with the original motion that said repairs
would only be done for warranty repairs on vehicles sold from that property.
MR. HUNSINGER-I just wonder how enforceable that would be? I mean, if we’re getting
complaints now, and the inspector’s going out there now. He can’t watch his operation every day.
MR. RINGER-If this were a new building going up, we probably wouldn’t allow that usage in this
area. It’s there. The repairs are really incidental to the business of selling cars and repair of the
vehicles that he has under warranty. I don’t feel that this is a significant change in what’s being done
there right now.
MR. VOLLARO-It’s not a significant change, but it’s not in agreement with our Comprehensive
Land Use Plan. That’s my problem.
MR. RINGER-I guess you have to weigh the balance, and it’s a modification and not a new building,
and it’s certainly your opinion, Bob. Any other comments?
MR. STROUGH-I don’t see, you’ve got the trash bin in the southeast corner right now. I don’t see
it demarcated on the plans, do I?
MR. NACE-Good question. No, that is my mistake. At one time it was on the plan, and it’s no
longer there, but it would be out back, directly out back.
MR. LEUCI-It’s already been dealt with.
MR. STROUGH-Yes, I see that, but it just wasn’t on the plans, and I don’t know.
MR. NACE-I will certainly add it to the final plan.
9
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MR. STROUGH-You’ll add it to the plan, but this is not a very big addition, and certainly, given the
small size of the building, the numbers of cars you’re going to be able to repair, along with the cars
that you have to repair, which would be, you know, your warranty work on cars that you sell, is not
going to be any greater significant number. I’ve been up there several times, as I said, at night, and
the lighting is not obtrusive. Your hours seem reasonable. Maybe it’s not the most ideal location, in
terms of community planning, for a used car lot, but you seem to be doing well there, and I think
there are things that could be on this lot that would have worse impacts on the nearby residential
neighborhood. So I, in all, don’t have a serious problem with this project, just as a commentary.
MR. RINGER-I’m still looking for a motion, if no one has any other comments. We’ve got a
prepared motion, and you might want to make some changes to it.
MRS. MOORE-May I interrupt and list the conditions that are proposed, so you can hear them and
maybe discuss them before we, before you make your motion?
MR. HUNSINGER-That’s a good idea. Do you want me to list mine first, the ones that I have
written down?
MRS. MOORE-That’s fine. Maybe the Board has more than I do.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. I think these would be in addition to the conditions that are listed in the
draft resolution. The first additional condition would be that the hours of operation not exceed 7:30
a.m. to 8:30 p.m., Monday through Friday, and 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. Saturday, and 10 a.m. to 6 p.m.
Sunday, with Sunday hours consisting of sales only, that the handicapped parking be delineated on
the final site plan, that no exterior PA system will be installed, and also that the location of the trash
bin be added to the final site plan, at the rear of the proposed addition. Did you have anything else?
MRS. MOORE-No, I did not.
MR. VOLLARO-One more thing, I think, in there is that I think Mark’s position is valid.
Landscaping must be professionally installed and maintained, I’d like to ask the applicant, would he
agree to hire, in other words, what, this is a little tough, professionally.
MR. SCHACHNER-Well, let me just elaborate on my thought on that. I’m not, my opinion is that
you should identify the goal that you seek, by way of landscaping, and articulate a condition that leads
you to that goal. What my reading, and maybe this is just my opinion, and this is my opinion from
the standpoint of evaluating the legal enforcement of the condition, I’m not sure what it means to
say professionally installed and maintained. I suppose that means that the person who installs and
maintains the landscaping has to be paid for it, and to my way of thinking, whether the person who
installs and maintains the landscaping is paid or not paid, doesn’t really impact the success of that
landscaping. I’m not sure what the goal is, but whatever the goal is should be focused on, not
whether the installer is paid or volunteer, in my opinion.
MR. HUNSINGER-I think we just want to make sure that they’ve installed the landscaping as
outlined on the site plan.
MR. VOLLARO-And maintained.
MR. RINGER-So if we said landscaping must be installed and maintained, period, that would.
MR. SCHACHNER-Well, in accordance with something, the planting plan or the site plan or
something. I think you have to say something to that effect. Sometimes this Board, I think in the
past, I know other Boards, get into the maintenance issue in a little more detail, about what exactly
means, in terms of survival time and rate and all that, and I’m not suggesting you have to do that, but
whoever said it just now is correct, that my concern was what exactly does professionally mean.
That’s correct, and that was my concern.
MR. NACE-As far as the maintenance, I think if you look at what he’s been maintaining, recently, it
looks nice.
MR. RINGER-Chris, if you just wanted to amend your motion on.
MR. HUNSINGER-I didn’t make it yet.
MR. RINGER-All right. I thought you were making it and getting ready. All right. I was just going
to say that, on condition one, change that to landscaping must be installed and maintained in
accordance with site plan.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes. I think that makes it good.
10
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MR. RINGER-That’s just a thought. I’m not telling you.
MRS. MOORE-Yes, that is acceptable.
MR. RINGER-And any other things that anyone would like to see Chris add to the motion?
MRS. MOORE-I do have one other item, that under condition number two in the prepared draft, it
says to be planted in the spring. I would just insert Spring of 2001.
MR. RINGER-Good idea.
MR. METIVIER-I’m curious about the lighting, as stated in the Town notes, of the three upper
mounted 1,000 watt light fixtures, watt fixtures, can only be used during business hours?
MR. RINGER-Yes, that’s item number three.
MR. VOLLARO-It’s in the resolution.
MR. METIVIER-I just read it that this Board may wish to make this a condition to assure the
property is not overly lit.
MR. RINGER-It’s in the prepared resolution.
MR. VOLLARO-It’s written in the prepared resolution.
MR. RINGER-Did you have anything else, Laura?
MRS. MOORE-No, I do not.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MOTION TO APPROVE MODIFICATION TO SITE PLAN NO. 55-98 JOSEPH
LEUCI/MOUNTAINSIDE AUTO, Introduced by Chris Hunsinger who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Anthony Metivier:
According to the resolution that has been prepared.
WHEREAS, the Town Planning Board is in receipt of a modification to Site Plan No. 55-98 Joseph
Leuci/Mountainside Auto. Modifications include a 3,360 sq. ft. addition for auto repair for off street
vehicles (previous approval was for repair of on site vehicles only); other modifications will address
stormwater management, site lighting, and location of building issues for non-compliance with
previous approval, Tax Map No. 67-2-1.3. Cross Reference SP 14-97, and 55-98 ; and
WHEREAS, the above mentioned application, received 5/31/00, consists of the following:
1.
Application materials as outlined in Official File
Whereas, the above file is supported with the following documentation:
1.
8/15/00 - Staff Notes
2.
8/14/00 - Nace Eng. response to Staff’s request for additional info.:
a. Transmittal of site lighting diagrams, copies of Warren Co. Sheriff’s reports for
break-ins, breakdown of bldg. sq. footage dedicated to repair, sales and offices.
3.
8/11/00 – PB from Marilyn Ryba
4.
8/3/00 - RF engineering comments – info acceptable
5.
8/1/00 - RFA from C. Round – transmittal of information for review
6.
7/26/00 – Nace Eng. – revised site plan and lighting illumination report
7.
6/30/00 – FOIL request – J. Bramley
8.
6/29/00 - PB resolution – table
9.
6/29/00 - Staff Notes
10.
6/27/00 - RFA engineering comments
11.
6/27/00 - Fax to Nace Eng. – staff notes
12.
6/26/00 - New Info rec’d – ITE – Land Use; 840, Auto Care Cntr.
13.
6/26/00 - New Info rec’d. – ITE – Auto Care Cntr.
14.
6/23/00 - Nace Eng. – response to 6/13 RFA comments
15.
6/22/00 - Notice of Public Hearing
11
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
16.
6/13/00 - RFA comments
17.
6/12/00 - RFA from C. Round – transmittal of info for review
18.
6/8/00 - Meeting Notice
19.
6/7/00 - Nace Eng. to L. Moore – Revised application form and site dev. Sheet
20.
6/7/00 - Nace Eng. to L. Moore – Regarding request for additional info.
21.
6/2/00 - Staff comments
WHEREAS, a public hearing was held on 6/29/00, 8/15/00, and 8/24/00 concerning the above
project; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has determined that the proposal complies with the site plan
requirements of the Code of the Town of Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, if applicable, the plans submitted are prepared in accordance with Chapter 136 (Sewers
& Sewage Disposal) of the Town Ordinance and the New York State Department of Health; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has considered the environmental factors found in the Code of the
Town of Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been considered;
and the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration; and/or if the application is a
modification, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been
considered; and the proposed modification(s) do not result in any new or significantly different
environmental impacts, and, therefore, no further SEQRA is necessary; and
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED,
The applicant is subject to the following conditions:
1. Submission of three (3) copies of the approved site plan to the Planning Office for the
Zoning Administrator’s signature. A note shall be added to the approved maps stating
the conditions of approval in the following manner:
“Conditions of Approval as per Planning Board Meeting August 24, 2000
1. Landscaping must be installed and maintained in accordance with the final accepted site
plan.
2. Condition Two should read, in the Spring of 2001.
3. Condition Four would read that the hours of operation not exceed 7:30 a.m. to 8:30 p.m.,
Monday through Friday, 8:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Saturday, and 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. Sunday,
with Sunday’s hours consisting of sales only.
4. That handicap parking be delineated on the final site plan.
5. That no exterior PA system will be installed.
6. That the location of the trash bin be added to the final site plan, at the rear of the
proposed addition.
7. On the documentation, to add the letter from Craig Brown to Craig MacEwan dated
August 16, 2000.
Duly adopted this 24 day of August, 2000, by the following vote:
th
MR. STROUGH-I would just like to make a small amendment to the first amendment. When you
said that landscaping must be installed and maintained as per site plan revised August 22, 2000.
MRS. MOORE-Just as a comment, he is going to revise that plan again, to have a new revision date
on it.
MR. STROUGH-Well, I just wanted to make sure that it at least included this.
MRS. MOORE-Okay.
MR. STROUGH-How should I word that, then, Laura?
MR. VOLLARO-Well, you could make it, it’s Site Plan C-1, presented by Nace Engineering. It’s a
modified site plan C-1.
MR. STROUGH-The revised site plan that was last revised?
MR. VOLLARO-Last revised August 22, 2000.
12
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MR. SCHACHNER-You could say, and as subsequently revised. I take it what Staff is saying is that
it’s going to be revised again.
MR. VOLLARO-He’s just trying to identify this piece of paper.
MR. SCHACHNER-But the point is, if you say, in accordance with the site plan, if I’m
understanding Staff’s concern, if you say in accordance with the site plan dated August 22, 2000,
that’s not going to be the right result, because it’s going to be subsequently revised.
MR. VOLLARO-If we use the word “previously” revised August 22, 2000, that may cover it, when
you have the next one to be August X 2000.
MR. SCHACHNER-Okay.
MR. NACE-Or you could say the final accepted site plan, as there will be a site plan, a final plan filed
with the Town.
MR. RINGER-Are you comfortable with that, Laura?
MRS. MOORE-Either way, that’s fine.
MR. RINGER-One other thing, on the documentation, to add the letter from Craig Brown to Craig
MacEwan, dated August 16, 2000, as part of the documentation.
AYES: Mr. Metivier, Mr. Strough, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Vollaro, Mr. Ringer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. MacEwan
MR. NACE-Thank you.
MR. LEUCI-Thank you.
MR. RINGER-You’re all set.
NEW BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 64-2000 TYPE: PAUL & JUDY CUSHING OWNER: SAME ZONE:
WR-1A, APA, CEA LOCATION: 280 CLEVERDALE ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES
AN ADDITION TO SOUTEAST CORNER OF EXISTING TWO CAR GARAGE.
EXPANSION OF A NON-CONFORMING STRUCTURE IN A CEA REQUIRES
PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE: AV 70-2000
WARREN CO. PLANNING: 8/9/00 TAX MAP NO. 13-3-23 LOT SIZE: 0.39 ACRES
SECTION: 179-16, 179-79
PAUL CUSHING, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 64-2000, Paul & Judy Cushing, Meeting Date: August 24, 2000
“Project Description
The applicant proposes an expansion of a non-conforming garage in the waterfront residential area.
The addition will be approximately 215 square feet and about 13 feet in height. The addition will be
consistent with the existing garage in siding and appearance. The entrance will be on the west side of
the structure being the same side as the garage doors. The applicant has applied for a variance, and
received that, for relief from the zoning requirements.
Project Analysis (Section 179-38)
The proposed use as reviewed by staff was found to be compliant with Sections 179-38 A, B, C, D
and E of the Town Code. The proposed expansion is allowed use in waterfront residential zone.
Site Overview
The addition as proposed is consistent with the existing structures on the site in
regards to design, size, arrangement, and location. There are no additional lights
proposed. The addition is residential and no signs are needed.
13
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
Traffic, Circulation, Parking
The addition does not alter the parking or residential traffic flow. The addition is
located within an area that consisted of plantings.
Utility, Stormwater, Landscaping, Emergency Services
The existing green area around the addition will handle the stormwater from the
new addition. The water supply does not change with the proposal. The proposal
is not subject to up-grading the septic system since the existing garage is not
serviced by the existing sanitary facilities, 179-16G. The proposal does not identify
any new plantings. The proposal will not impact existing emergency services.
Areas of Concern or Importance
There are many structures along Cleverdale that are close to the road causing the road to look
congested. The location of the addition towards the rear of the garage is therefore appropriate.”
MR. RINGER-Anything else?
MRS. MOORE-No.
MR. RINGER-Okay, and we’ve got the ZBA resolution approving the variance, and nothing from
the County?
MRS. MOORE-They were approved at Warren County, or No County Impact.
MR. RINGER-Okay. The applicant?
MR. CUSHING-Good evening, Paul Cushing from 280 Cleverdale Road.
MR. RINGER-Would you tell us a little bit about what your plans are, Mr. Cushing, please.
MR. CUSHING-I’m an architect, and have been practicing in the Town of Queensbury as a business
since early 1970, with prior experience working for other firms in the area. I’m now approaching 72
years old, and my practice has, by design, been diminished. I have no employees, do not intend to
have any employees. I’m looking for a small, modest place to do things that I love to do, which is
draw and design buildings, and that’s why I’m here today, to, hopefully, secure your approval of what
we’re trying to do, with our little modest addition.
MR. RINGER-Can you tell us a little bit about your addition, if you would, please.
MR. CUSHING-It’s basically a 15 by 13 foot addition attached to our existing garage. It will replace
approximately 215 square feet of my wife’s garden, which she dearly loves, and was a real chore
getting her to agree to this situation. The lot is the 60 foot lot that was historically set up probably
around the Turn of the Century. We have something, at the present time, with 80% of the lot being
permeable. The addition would not impact anything relative to added stormwater. It would still go
in the garden or on the lawn, which is right adjacent to that. The setback requirements that we
proposed were as modest as we could fit in, and we talked with the Zoning Board last night and
received their approval. They had some questions about a possible location, and I had showed them
the little exercise on the drawing that we propose that would satisfy the setbacks, but it would place
this addition right in the middle of the lot, and, frankly, being an architect, that doesn’t set well with
my aesthetic capabilities. The idea of just extending from the existing garage roof to cover this
proposed addition, would certainly be more modest, and would make this a very unobtrusive
addition to the site. Granted that the area up there is quite extensively developed, but one thing that
I would point out, please remember that that’s only true for four months, and with the re-location of
the existing post office from the heart of Cleverdale to down off of 9L in the old firehouse location,
the road population has been reduced even further. So, any questions, I’d be happy to try to answer
to the best of my abilities.
MR. RINGER-Okay. Thank you. Chris?
MR. HUNSINGER-I guess the only real question I had was, when I looked at the drawings for the
addition, it showed three delineated work stations, and I just heard you say that you weren’t planning
to hire anybody and have anybody work there, and I just wanted to get that clarified.
MR. CUSHING-That is absolutely correct. The way I do work is that I have projects that are in
various stages. This would allow me to have Project A here, Project B here, Project C there, and as
the time required to pass them down the road to completion, I could leave them all set out. It’s just
a matter of efficiency, as far as my operation would be concerned, and basically I’m kind lazy and I
like to leave things out.
14
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MR. HUNSINGER-That was it.
MR. RINGER-Okay. John?
MR. STROUGH-Well, I know you’re not going to have any type of expanded operation up there.
There’s no parking.
MR. CUSHING-The only parking we have is what is required by the residential regulations, yes.
MR. STROUGH-When your friends come visit you, this has nothing to do with the project, and I
don’t have anything, other than it’s a very cramped area.
MR. CUSHING-Yes.
MR. STROUGH-And when I went there to try and find parking, just to look at the site, I found it
very difficult for me to find a spot to park, and it wasn’t like there was anybody there. There wasn’t
anybody there. So, I don’t think, just to answer Chris’s concern, is that I didn’t think, the operation
up there certainly wouldn’t be able to expand.
MR. CUSHING-No, it would be most modest, and at this stage, with telephones, faxes, e-mail,
internet type of thing, it’s much better, and I find it’s better for the projects that I’m involved with,
going to you, as the client, to see what your needs really are, what your piece of property might
require, and talk about what you’re trying to do with, on that particular piece of property, rather than
have you come in and show a piece of paper. It’s very difficult for people that aren’t trained to look
at drawings, to understand really what the intent is and what’s really going on.
MR. STROUGH-Thank you.
MR. RINGER-Tony?
MR. METIVIER-I have nothing.
MR. RINGER-Bob?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes. I just want to make a recommendation to you. In looking at where your
distribution box is and the fact that that box is under pressure from the pump, when the pump cycles
off, you’re only 19 inches from your building, that D box is very close.
MR. CUSHING-I understand that.
MR. VOLLARO-What’s the pitch on the building itself? In other words, the new construction, is
any water going to shed toward your laterals, toward your tile field?
MR. CUSHING-No. It’s going, actually, to the south. If you look at the second drawing.
MR. VOLLARO-It’s going to the south. So this is a shed roof, in a sense?
MR. CUSHING-Correct.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. All right. Yes. I just wanted to make sure that you weren’t shedding any
water off onto the tile field, just for your own benefit.
MR. CUSHING-Yes, agreed.
MR. VOLLARO-And that 19 inches, of course, the fact that this is not considered a dwelling, we’ve
been through that in definition around the horn, that apparently this is not a dwelling, but just to, a
distribution box shall be set 20 feet from a dwelling, if it was a dwelling.
MR. CUSHING-Yes, I know that, and one of the building questions that came up from Staff was,
what is construction going to be, and I said it was going to be a slab on grade, because that’s the only
way the Building Inspector will allow us to do it.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, that’s the Building Inspector’s position, right. I don’t have any further
questions, Larry.
MR. RINGER-Okay. We’ve got a public hearing scheduled. So if there’s anyone here from the
public?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
15
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. RINGER-Have we got to do a SEQRA on this?
MRS. MOORE-No, this is a Type II.
MR. RINGER-Okay. Any other questions from the Board? Okay. Then I’m open for motions.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 64-2000 PAUL & JUDY CUSHING,
Introduced by Robert Vollaro who moved for its adoption, seconded by John Strough:
At Cleverdale, in accordance with the submitted plan dated 4/23/78, and 7/26/00.
Duly adopted this 24 day of August, 2000, by the following vote:
th
AYES: Mr. Strough, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Vollaro, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Ringer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. MacEwan
MR. RINGER-You’re all set, sir.
MR. CUSHING-Thank you, gentlemen.
MR. VOLLARO-You’re welcome.
SITE PLAN NO. 59-2000 TYPE: UNLISTED ALBANY TELEPHONE CO. OWNER:
O.A. BOYCHUK AGENT: GARY WEISS ZONE: HC-1A LOCATION: 63 QUAKER
ROAD - MARK PLAZA APPLICANT PROPOSES INSTALLATION OF
TELECOMMUNICATIONS EQUIPMENT ON A LOT WITH AN EXISTING TALL
STRUCTURE OR TELECOMMUNICATIONS TOWER/FACILITIES. IN
ACCORDANCE WITH § 179-73.1 TELECOMMUNICATIONS EQUIPMENT
INSTALLATION REQUIRES PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL.
WARREN CO. PLANNING: 8/9/00 TAX MAP NO. 63-1-1.3 LOT SIZE: N/A
SECTION: 179-73.1
BOB ISGRO & MIKE SCHWEDATSCHENKO, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 59-2000, Albany Telephone Co., Meeting Date: August 24, 2000
“Project Description
The applicant proposes installation of three “whip-cell” antennas on a building that currently
contains other communication equipment. There will be improvements to the east side of the
building including rebuilding of the “loading dock” with an enclosure and installation of new stairs
for the microcell cabinet.
Project Analysis (Section 179-38)
The proposed use as reviewed by staff was found to be compliant with Sections 179-38 A, B, C, D
and E of the Town Code and Section 179-73.1 Telecommunications towers regulations. The
proposed use is an allowed use within the Highway commercial zone. The three whip antennas are
to be 4.3 feet mounted 15 feet above the roof. The antennas are adjacent to an existing 50 foot
tower and satellite dishes. The microcell cabinet will be 64 square feet and located on the rebuilt
loading dock.
Site Overview
The location, arrangement, size, design and general site compatibility of buildings,
lighting and signs. The applicant has provided existing and proposed coverage area.
Currently, there is little to no-reception within the project area. The addition of the
three antennas will provide better reception within the project area and other areas
that were not covered previously. These new areas include Country Club Road and
Exit 19 North. The equipment cabinet will be located in area that is labeled as a
loading dock. The applicant should confirm the “loading dock” is not longer used
as a load dock.
16
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
Traffic, Circulation, Parking
There does not appear to be a need to improve the existing parking area or access to
the project site.
Utility, Stormwater, Landscaping, Emergency Services
The application has been forwarded to CT Male for review and comment. The
antennas and equipment cabinet are located in an area that does not appear to be an
aesthetic issue. For that reason the project area does not need new landscaping.
The photo-simulations indicate the whip antennas may be a white in color. The
applicant should confirm the color of the antenna and the roof-mount.
Suggestions
The applicant should confirm color of the antennas and base mounts, and confirm the loading dock
is no longer used.”
MR. RINGER-Okay. Anything else, Laura?
MRS. MOORE-No.
MR. RINGER-Okay. Good evening. Would you identify yourself for the record, please.
MR. ISGRO-Good evening. My name is Bob Isgro. I’m from Albany Telephone Company, doing
business as Cellular One. Mike Schwedatschenko is our RF Engineer. We’re attempting to fill a hole
that we have in the Quaker Road/Route 9 area, by putting a micro cell, very low power micro cell, in
the Quaker Road, 63 Quaker Road, and in doing so, we would have to put these three whip
antennas, and have a little cellular cabinet on that one side that Laura was just talking about. I did
bring one picture of the loading dock, to show that it is not being used, and you can tell just by
looking at it that we’re going to have to knock it down and repair it, and actually not repair it, but re-
build it. I guess that it’s for me, unless you have any questions, I’ll be glad to answer any questions
that you have. Do you want to see these pictures? Shall I pass them around?
MR. RINGER-Well, you can bring them up and the Board members can look at them.
MR. ISGRO-Sure.
MR. RINGER-We’ll have comments from the Board. Tony, we’ll start with you.
MR. METIVIER-I really have nothing. I think this is fine.
MR. RINGER-Bob?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes. I’d like to ask the gentleman a question here. Your ERP, Effective Radiated
Power, from antenna is 95 watts. Is that correct?
MR. SCHWEDATSCHENKO-No, not 95 watts.
MR. VOLLARO-What I’m looking at here is something that was submitted. Is that not for this?
You’ve got ERP at 0 degrees, 45 degrees. This is an Omni System?
MR. SCHWEDATSCHENKO-That’s correct.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. It’s listed at 95 and 95, 97, at 90 degrees, it’s 95.5, at 135, at 180, at 226, at
270, and at 315.
MR. RINGER-Are you looking at something they don’t have, Bob?
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t know. I’m looking at something that came in my packet, and it’s called
Exhibit A, Page One, Albany Telephone Company, Cellular One, oh, this is Dallas, Texas, Preston
Road, Dallas.
MR. SCHWEDATSCHENKO-That’s correct.
MR. VOLLARO-Is this just to, a facsimile? Is that what you’ve got here?
MR. ISGRO-What you have there is showing our site information for across the Country. It’s part
of our license. That came from Dallas, and that allows us, it shows us that we are.
MIKE SCHWEDATSCHENKO-That’s a company of our radio station authorization.
MR. VOLLARO-Can you give me the Effective Radiated Power from the antennas that you’re
proposing to install?
17
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MIKE SCHWEDATSCHENKO-I don’t have that in front of me, but it’s very low power.
MR. VOLLARO-In about what range?
MIKE SCHWEDATSCHENKO-In about 10 watts.
MR. VOLLARO-About 10 watts, okay, so that at 100 feet, you’re probably talking one and a half
micro watts at 100 feet, roughly?
MIKE SCHWEDATSCHENKO-It’s going to be above the height of the microwave dishes.
MR. ISGRO-Yes, it’s going to be about 19 feet.
MR. VOLLARO-The reason for this line of questioning, so you understand, I just want to try to set
the stage for how effective this micro wave transmission may be toward human beings, in terms of
exposure. My personal opinion, there is none, having been in this field for some 40 years myself.
MIKE SCHWEDATSCHENKO-Yes, that’s correct. Being that the antennas are going to be above
the height of the satellite dishes. The vertical separation there itself is going to create a lot of
dissipation of power, and by the time it gets down to the street level, it’s in the micro watt range
already.
MR. VOLLARO-Right, and you don’t have an effective side lobes on this antenna?
MIKE SCHWEDATSCHENKO-Well, it’s an Omni pattern, so it’s, there wouldn’t be a side lobe.
MR. VOLLARO-Right. I just wanted you to be able to say that.
MIKE SCHWEDATSCHENKO-Yes, it’s the same power in all directions.
MR. VOLLARO-Other than that, I don’t see any visual pollution here, in terms of the difference
between what’s on the building now and what’s being proposed to go on the building. I think there’s
a photograph in here that shows that, a before and after photo, but anyway, having seen what’s on
Mr. Boychuk’s building, compared to what’s being proposed to go on, I don’t see any visual pollution
there. If you look at the before and after’s, they seem pretty benign to me.
MR. RINGER-Anything else, Bob?
MR. VOLLARO-No, that’s all I have. I’ve read the C.T. Male comments.
MR. RINGER-Chris?
MR. HUNSINGER-The only question I had is, maybe it was already answered, is the color of the
antennas?
MR. ISGRO-The base itself will be like a gun metal, not a gun metal, I should say like a steel color,
galvanized steel, not shiny like this, but, you know, it would be a grayish color, and the antennas
themselves are white.
MR. HUNSINGER-Just like, you can’t really tell from these photos.
MR. ISGRO-No. As a matter of fact, that’s a rendering to show exactly what it would look like.
MR. HUNSINGER-That’s the only question I had.
MR. RINGER-John?
MR. STROUGH-I just, well, you know, I’m concerned about micro wave contamination, not for this
particular project. I know that some day Bob and I are going to sit down and talk about this, but the
rest of the world seems to disagree with the FCC standards, which are just based on a thermal
reaction. This particular project, however, this particular cell, is not near any residential area, and the
people that would have any kind of exposure would be the people working in Mark Plaza, and I also
understand that you wouldn’t necessarily receive any kind of microwave readings near the antenna.
You’re, am I correct, more likely to receive some kind of micro wave impact at some distance from
the antenna?
MIKE SCHWEDATSCHENKO-Yes. I’d like to, actually, correct you. You keep saying
microwave. That’s actually a hire range of frequency. We’re in a radio frequency range.
18
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MR. STROUGH-So this is a radio range?
MIKE SCHWEDATSCHENKO-That’s right. Actually, those channels that we’ve been allocated by
the FCC came from UHF, it’s like Channel 89.
MR. STROUGH-That’s the 800 to 900 megahertz range.
MIKE SCHWEDATSCHENKO-Right, and microwave typically starts about 1900 megahertz, much
higher, and being a smaller wavelength tends to potentially be more ionizing, more harmful to the
human body, that’s why when you have a microwave oven, it has interlocks on it. You have the door
closed. You can’t turn it on while the door is open.
MR. STROUGH-Well, I’m going to disagree with you. The literature does address 800 to 900
megahertz frequencies, but I’m not going to get into a debate, as a microwave range, and there’s non
ionized, which is okay, as opposed to an x-ray, which is an ionized, but I’m not going to get into a
debate. I don’t have a problem with this particular project, but there are, I’m kind of speaking out
loud here, and I don’t have a problem with this project because there’s no residential areas next to it,
and those people that work under, near the base of the antenna, it seems like, the literature I read,
would be the least likely to be effected by it, if there was any negative, so I don’t have a problem with
this project.
MR. RINGER-No more questions?
MR. STROUGH-No more questions.
MR. RINGER-We’ve got a public hearing scheduled? Is there anyone that wants to speak?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. RINGER-And we have to do a SEQRA on this, a Short Form.
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 59-2000, Introduced by Robert Vollaro who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Anthony Metivier:
WHEREAS, there is presently before the Planning Board an application for:
ALBANY TELEPHONE CO., and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board
action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No Federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is Unlisted in the Department of
Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality
Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and
having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation
of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action
about to be undertaken by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the
19
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be
necessary a statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by
law.
Duly adopted this 24 day of August, 2000, by the following vote:
th
MR. VOLLARO-There was an attachment of a Visual EAF Addendum to this, as part of the State
Environmental Quality Review Act. It’s 617.20 Appendix B.
MR. RINGER-Where are you reading from, Bob?
MR. VOLLARO-Right from here, the Visual EAF that was attached to the Short Form.
MR. RINGER-Okay. Go ahead. I didn’t mean to interrupt you. I just wanted to make sure that
everybody was on the same page as you were.
MR. VOLLARO-It says they’re to be completed by the Lead Agency, and I suspect that’s us at this
point. Is it not?
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes. Generally, as you notice at the top, I’m assuming your form says this, it
says, “This form may be used to provide additional information relating to Question 11 of Part II of
the Full EAF”. My point being that, generally, this form is not used in completing the Short EAF.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. SCHACHNER-It’s nice that the applicant submitted that, and you can go through it, if you like,
but it would generally speaking, be deemed to be relevant to Question C. Well, actually, most
people would consider it relevant to Question C2 on the Short Form EAF. You’ve already answered
no, that the action won’t result in any adverse effects associated with aesthetic resources or
community or neighborhood character. So you’ve essentially already answered the punchline
question that the Visual EAF Addendum helps you get to when you review a Long Form EAF.
MR. VOLLARO-So the short answer is we don’t need to do this?
MR. SCHACHNER-That is correct.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. I just wanted to make sure of that. I didn’t know why it was here.
MR. RINGER-Then I need a motion for a Negative Declaration.
AYES: Mr. Metivier, Mr. Strough, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Vollaro, Mr. Ringer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. MacEwan
MR. RINGER-Okay. Anything else from the Board?
MR. VOLLARO-No, I think that’s it.
MR. RINGER-All right. Anybody for a motion?
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 59-2000 ALBANY TELEPHONE CO.,
Introduced by Anthony Metivier who moved for its adoption, seconded by Robert Vollaro:
As presented with Site Plan application and the map of 6/5/2000.
Duly adopted this 24 day of August, 2000, by the following vote:
th
AYES: Mr. Vollaro, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Strough, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Ringer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. MacEwan
MR. VOLLARO-On the chart, is the signal in dbm, is that receiver sensitivity you’re looking at,
minus 70 db, in the red?
MIKE SCHWEDATSCHENKO-It’s field strength, yes.
20
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MR. VOLLARO-Field strength? Okay, which could be translated into, in other words, if I was
designing a receiver, I’d have to know what your field strength was at that spot?
MIKE SCHWEDATSCHENKO-Correct.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. I’ve got it. Thank you.
SITE PLAN NO. 63-2000 TYPE: UNLISTED JEFFREY L. KELLEY OWNER: SAME
AGENT: CHARLES SCUDDER, PE ZONE: LOCATION: 87 MAIN STREET
APPLICANT PROPOSES A BAGEL SHOP AND RESTAURANT. NEW USES IN CR
ZONES REQUIRE PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS
REFERENCE: AV 72-2000 BEAUTIFICATION COMM.: 8/7/00 WARREN CO.
PLANNING: 8/9/00 TAX MAP NO. 129-1-15 LOT SIZE: 1.01 ACRES SECTION: 179-
24
CHARLES SCUDDER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. RINGER-Before we get into this, we got the comments from C.T. Male just tonight, and C.T.
Male has signed off on it. However, our Board hasn’t really had a chance to read them. I want to
take like a five minute recess, just to give our Board members a chance to read the comments from
C.T. Male.
MR. SCUDDER-That would be fine.
MR. RINGER-Thank you. Okay, now, Laura, Staff Notes.
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 63-2000, Jeffrey L. Kelley, Meeting Date: August 24, 2000 “Project
Description
The applicant proposes a Bagel Shop and restaurant to be located on Main Street. The building will
be about 4,900 square foot with 41 parking spaces, and a one-way traffic circulation.
Project Analysis (Section 179-38)
The proposed use as reviewed by staff was found to be compliant with Sections 179-38 A, B, C, D
and E of the Town Code. The proposed use is an allowed use within the Commercial Residential
zone. The proposed structure is one story with the main entrance to the east and north side. The
applicant has received an area variance. See attached AV72-2000 for Jeffrey Kelley.
Site Overview
The applicant met with staff to review the location of the structure on Main Street.
The proposed zoning ordinance encourages parking to the rear with buildings
toward the front as proposed. The site will be cleared and graded to accommodate
the new structure. The new building will be placed in about the same location as the
existing dwelling unit. The Main Street road improvement will not interfere with
the proposed location of the building. There is enough space between the building
front and the road to accommodate an eight-foot green area, a five foot sidewalk, an
eight foot green area, then the travel lane; as proposed in the design guidelines in the
draft zoning ordinance, with an additional fourteen feet remaining. The proposed
building is located an additional fourteen feet away from the road. Please see the
attached memo in regards to the meeting staff had with the applicant.
Traffic, Circulation, Parking
The applicant proposes a one-way traffic route. The entrance would be on the east
side of the building and exit would be on the west side of the building. The
applicant has indicated the traffic flow will manage the onsite circulation, and
deliveries. The applicant received a variance for the amount of parking required.
The building square footage or number of seats for the proposal required 49, the
applicant proposed 41 spaces. The location of the building in relation to the
sidewalks will promote pedestrian access and reduce vehicular conflicts.
Utility, Stormwater, Landscaping, Emergency Services
The application has been forwarded to CT Male for comment and review. The
Beautification Committee requested the applicant to provide a revised landscape
plan that shows additional detail. The current landscaping does not identify type or
quantity. The fence that is proposed for the perimeter of the property does not
indicate type or height.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
Areas of Concern or Importance
The proposed site plan is compatible with design guidelines envisioned for the Exit 18 Main Street
area.
Conclusions (Section 179-39)
The proposal does not have a significant adverse environmental impact because traffic conflicts will
be reduced and pedestrian movement will be enhanced, among other positive impacts.
Suggestions
The applicant should provide additional site-plan detail that includes landscaping, fencing, planter
boxes, and lighting.”
MRS. MOORE-The Board may want to further discuss lighting. My understanding is that there will
be no night business. There’s only proposed security lighting. So, the Board may wish to discuss
that further.
MR. RINGER-That’s it? Anything else, Laura?
MRS. MOORE-No.
MR. RINGER-Okay. County approved?
MRS. MOORE-As far as I know, No County Impact.
MR. RINGER-Okay. Good evening. Would you identify yourselves for the record, please.
MR. SCUDDER-Charlie Scudder, for the applicant, and Jeff Kelley, the applicant.
MR. RINGER-Okay. Tell us a little bit about your project, if you would.
JEFF KELLEY
MR. KELLEY-Okay. Basically, I’m going to do a whole new business, in addition to an existing
business that I have. If any of you are familiar with Lox of Bagels and Moor, that’s my current
business. Some unique things about it, I lease the building where I am. I own the business, but I
lease the building, and it’s time for me to move on and build my own structure, this being what’s
before the Board. This particular piece of property probably have looked at it, but it’s basically next
door to the Bagel store, also adjacent to the Hess Gasoline Station. I say next door. You shouldn’t
get confused, if you stood in the road and looked at the Bagel store, there is a house just to the right,
that’s kind of a cream colored house. That’s also owned by the person that owns the building that
I’m in, that’s Lox of Bagels. His name’s Norm Benack, and his property, basically, is the parking lot,
the Bagel store, and that cream colored house. Where this is going to be located is the gray and
white house, which is just to the right of that. That’s just kind of a clarification there. The business
has changed. People’s eating habits have changed. They want to basically go to a restaurant and sit
down and eat. We’re proposing an upscale Victorian Garden café. We’ll also have a gift shop
attached, or, I shouldn’t say attached, but as a part of it, and also the Lox of Bagels and Moor
business will come over to this new building, where we’ll still have pretty much the same thing we
have now. It’s just that if people wanted to sit down and eat, we’ll actually have a dining room,
waitresses, rather than standing at a counter and kind of waiting to see the product and then going to
sit. What I envision is, well, the pages are kind of curled here, but it’s going to be a Victorian
building with Victorian colors, which is a little hard to do with kind of a sprawled out building, but
we’re working at it, and I think we’re going to succeed. The sign over the window is not what will
ultimately be there. That was one of my drafting buddy’s ways of putting a name on the building. I
think we’re going to design something much prettier than that for the sign. Basically, the property
was an acre of land, and I think we’ve done a fairly good job of situating the building on it,
addressing traffic flow, parking. We have a variance for that, but it seems to be adequate. I’m in the
process of working with Jim Girard on a landscape plan. We went to the Beautification Committee,
and I told them I wanted to do shrubs and plantings and so forth, but they wanted more specifics.
So Jim’s going to come up with a, I think hopefully a real nice plan, would work generally as good.
In terms of the lighting, there was some questions about that. I have an actual fellow that I know,
well he worked with the Duro Test Light Bulb manufacturing company, and they’ve had some
changes, but anyway, he’s a lighting expert, so to speak. He’s sending me some information on
outside lighting, in terms of pole type lighting, and some options that we might have to light the
sidewalks and the ingress and egress without creating an abundance of light. I believe the plan called
for like two foot candles per square foot, and we’re going to come up with a plan to meet that, which
I think it was mentioned that we’re not open at night. Our hours are six in the morning until four in
the afternoon. We plan on continuing with that. Although I do want to have some lights at night, I
think for security, one, and also I have employees that go to work at midnight sometimes, women, a
woman in particular that works for me, and I think it’s kind of vital that it be lit, at least enough so
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
that she can feel comfortable to pull in and park her car, and in the winter time, it’s dark a lot of
times when we’re even open. So we will need some lighting, but it won’t be a Hess type thing. I
guess my thoughts and my plan are that it be in keeping with what people would expect. I don’t have
any wild ideas to do anything, you know, out of the ordinary or obtrusive or obnoxious to anybody,
and I guess with that, I’ll let you have at me.
MR. RINGER-Okay. The letter from C.T. Male, you’ve got that. Would you go down the items of
C.T. Male, and what you’re doing, please? Do it item by item.
MR. SCUDDER-You’re talking about the letter of?
MR. RINGER-August 22, of C.T. Male. You’ve answered most of his. We didn’t copy of your
nd
answers or anything. We just want to hear how you’ve answered all those questions that he had. He
had one through, comments one through fourteen. They got a copy of this, didn’t they, Laura?
MRS. MOORE-Yes, they did. Do you want a copy of C.T. Male’s comments, so you can correspond
your comments to it?
MR. SCUDDER-I have it, thank you. Okay. The first comment was the existing lot is said to
contain a house and paved driveway, this information is not shown on the plans, however, and my
response was that the small paved driveway and the house are to be removed from the existing lot
before construction of the new bagel shop and restaurant is begun. So the lot’s going to be cleared.
MR. RINGER-Okay.
MR. SCUDDER-The second question was, or the second comment was that the entrance and exit
drive consist of a 12 foot wide paved road, with 20 foot radii at Corinth Road, since the application
explains that a tractor trailer is used for deliveries, the engineer should confirm that this vehicle can
be accommodated by the proposed ingress/egress geometry, and my response was that the minimum
turning radius of the inside rear wheel of a semi-trail rig, per ASHTO design vehicle WB50 is 19.2
feet. We had drawn a radius of 20 feet, which, in theory, should work. However, Mr. Edwards
makes a good point. We can increase the driveway radii at Main Street to 24 feet. Now, in case you
don’t know this, ASHTO is the American Association of State Highway and Transportation
Officials, and they publish standards and specifications for highway design and so on and so forth,
and the criterion that I applied was for a WB50 design vehicle, which is a theoretical vehicle, but it’s a
semi-tractor trailer, 55 feet long. The third point was that the applicant describes the use of lighting
at various locations which will meet the minimum foot candle parameters, a lighting plan should be
provided which indicates lighting coverage and spill over, and my response was that Mr. Kelley has
engaged a lighting consultant. He just made reference to that. We say, again, that the bagel shop and
restaurant will not be open for evening meals. However, security lighting is needed, and some light is
necessary for Staff members arriving or leaving during hours of darkness. As to the concept of spill
over, consider that Mr. Kelley’s parcel is well within the Hess station, and I, in italics, used the word
penumbra. In other words, there’s a lot of light in the neighborhood from the Hess station. The
fourth point Mr. Edwards made was that the site grading plan is somewhat lacking in that none of
the existing grading, both at the subject parcel and the adjacent parcels, is shown, in addition,
elevations at Corinth Road are not shown nor is the finished floor of the building, the high point in
the driveway(s) should also be shown. Well, in my original report, engineering report, which is
among your papers, I think, I said that the lot is basically flat. Since I got Mr. Edwards’ comments,
we have surveyed it, topographically, and I have plotted contour, and indeed, the maximum
difference in elevation across the site and on the adjacent sites is about a foot, maybe, in one little
place in your front yard it’s more than a foot. It’s more like two feet in that little depression, but
basically it’s a flat site.
MR. VOLLARO-Was that your response to that question to C.T. Male, that the site is essentially
flat?
MR. SCUDDER-No. Because we did survey it and we did draw contours, and we have established
the finished floor elevation.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay, and that’s in your letter? In other words, your response to C.T. Male said
that.
MR. SCUDDER-Excuse me. This letter was written yesterday, but we’ve had further
communication today about this.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. SCUDDER-Before he wrote what the latest thing that you have in front of you, which came in
some time.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MR. VOLLARO-The August 24 letter you said.
th
MR. SCUDDER-Yes, that came in some time later this afternoon. I spoke to Mr. Edwards twice
today, once in the morning and once in the earlier afternoon, and it was subsequent to that that he
wrote his other one page commentary of today. Anyway, I said that we would take additional survey
elevations and put the information on the site plan that he felt was lacking. Now, his fifth point was,
according to the proposed grading, a portion of the runoff could spill over onto the adjoining parcel
to the east, how will this be controlled? Well, I don’t think so. The parcel to the east is actually at a
higher elevation, at least in the front, and what we’re talking about is the driveways, because all the
other water is going to be picked up, and with the fine grading, it’ll either be diverted into the green
areas or picked up in the drop inlets and absorbed in the sub surface system, and I did address that in
my comments. I said, we will prevent runoff to either of the adjoining parcels by careful finished
grading. The bordering green areas, that is bordering all the way down both sides of the parcel,
between the driveway and the property line, will absorb driveway runoff, if necessary, in other words,
if there is any to speak of. We’re talking about a 12 foot wide driveway, and if they’re cambered a
little bit, you know, maybe six feet of the water will go off to one side and six feet to the other side.
MR. VOLLARO-I guess I’m having a hard time understanding his question number five. According
to the proposed grading, a portion of the runoff could spill over onto the adjoining parcel to the east.
If you had no grading information on your drawing, how could he arrive at that question?
MR. SCUDDER-Well, I did. He just wanted more.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. All right.
MR. SCUDDER-He wanted me to flesh it out a bit more, which we have done.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. SCUDDER-And I guess I don’t really think that’s a significant item, but he seemed to think it
is, so, I addressed it. Then he said, item six, the parking lot grading plan shows a rather steep drop
into the first drainage inlet, the grade at that location is approximately 10% and may create a
noticeable dip for vehicles travelling across it. Well, I said we’ll raise the grade elevation on the inlet
to reduce surface slope to about five percent. If you’re looking at the grading plan, you’ll notice that
there are two drop inlets back in the parking lot.
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t have that. I’ve been struggling here, because I don’t have a drawing with
any contours on it. So, I can’t. Okay. This drawing has contours I don’t.
MR. SCUDDER-Well, one’s a site plan, and one’s a grading and drainage plan.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. SCUDDER-I can understand why you’re confused if you don’t have any contours.
MR. RINGER-Laura, have you got this one?
MRS. MOORE-Has this been revised since you talked to Jim Edwards, or has this?
MR. SCUDDER-Yes, I revised it today.
MRS. MOORE-That’s a revised one. I don’t have a revised one, no.
MR. RINGER-Then we’ll make sure you have it, then.
MR. SCUDDER-No, but that does address the point he’s concerned about there. If you’ll see that
sort of an oval contour around that first drop inlet, nearest the building?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, I see it.
MR. SCUDDER-Well, he’s concerned about the grade elevation in relation to the elevation of that
contour.
MR. VOLLARO-I see. Okay.
MR. SCUDDER-And he feels that the slope into that drop inlet is too steep. It’s going to be a deep
depression.
24
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MR. VOLLARO-Is that where he talks about the 10% slope?
MR. SCUDDER-Right. So I said, we’ll raise the grade elevation so that it’s five percent, and in my
commentary, I said that a steeper slope is preferable to a bird bath that could occur when a localized
surface slope is too flat. Local inlet depressions are usually finished with small equipment instead of
a paving machine that has a screed. In other words, there’s handwork to be done there, and they use
a little roller, and the work is not as precise as it is when you use a paver that has a thing called a
screed that levels everything off. That was my point there. Trying to avoid any little puddles that’ll
freeze, but his point’s well taken, and so five percent is still decent. “A subsurface absorption system
is proposed for collection and disposal of stormwater runoff. However, the inverts of the piping
system are not indicated on the plan. In addition, the application does not show any test pit data
related to seasonal high groundwater or confirming soil type.” Well, my response to that was the
region of Queensbury where the Bagel shop is sited is sandy. The Hess station next door was
recently closed for replacement of its fuel storage tanks. We observed that the deep excavation
showed the substructure is composed of relatively course sands. We also have a test hole record and
soil log in which the design of the wastewater system for the existing Bagel shop was based. The log
shows the existence of dry sand to a depth of 11 feet. The log shows, also, that sands get courser as
depth increases and there is no mottling. The bottom’s of the existing seepage pits are down some
10 feet or more. The percolation rate was measured at one inch drop in less than one minute, and
that was done in March of 1988, and that plan was approved by the State Health Department at that
time, and that’s what the existing Bagel shop has been living on.
MR. VOLLARO-Mr. Edwards says, in his closing paragraph, he says Mr. Scudder is providing our
office with perc tests results for the existing Bagel shop from 1988 to support this statement.
MR. SCUDDER-Correct.
MR. VOLLARO-So you’re still to provide that. He, apparently, having written this on August 24,
th
he still doesn’t have that.
MR. SCUDDER-This afternoon, I tried to fax that stuff to him and I couldn’t. I couldn’t get his fax
machine to accept it.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. So this is, essentially, this turns out to be somewhat of an open item yet, in
terms of his closure on it.
MR. SCUDDER-I suppose, technically, that’s true, except that he’s generally satisfied, but he wants
to have the documents. We have the documents, and I tried to fax them to him three or four times.
I called him and told him I can’t make it go. He said, well, they’ve been having trouble with one of
the fax machines. Maybe it’s out of paper, this and that. They have a couple of fax machines, but I
only have one number. So, it’ll have to go until tomorrow.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. Larry, I guess you want him to continue on.
MR. RINGER-Yes.
MR. SCUDDER-Let’s see. That was number seven. Number Eight, the stormwater system contains
six inch piping, we believe that a larger pipe size (at least eight inches) should be considered since a
smaller diameter could easily plug with leaves, sedimentation, etc. Well, I would put fabric around
the pipe to prevent the intrusion of sediment. Still, his point is well taken, and we’ve agreed to
increase the diameter to eight inches, which is not a big deal. Number Nine, the absorption system
contains a 90 degree bend where it discharges at the north end of the property, for the purpose of
maintaining the system, a manhole or clean out structure should be provided, and I said a clean out
structure or manhole will be provided for maintaining the absorption system. Number Ten, the site
plan shows that the first 90 feet +/- of entry/egress pavement will drain towards Corinth Road, the
applicant should confirm that the County road can handle the runoff without ponding. Well, we’re
talking about a piece of driveway that slopes up before it hits the high point and begins to slope
downward toward the back of the property, that is to the north. We’re talking about two 12 foot
driveways. Most of the water is going to spill off onto the grass on either side, but, admittedly, some
will go out into the County road, into the gutter there. So, yesterday, we located four drop inlets that
are down in front of the Hess station and, parenthetically, all of the water from the Hess station
drains out into the road. They have no retention of any kind on their property. We’re going to
contain almost all of our water on site, except for that little bit that dribbles off the end of the
driveway nearest the road. That’s what he was.
MR. RINGER-So how did you answer him?
MR. SCUDDER-That way. I told him about the drop inlets and I also made the case that the
amount of water that’s going to run off is going to be inconsequential.
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MR. RINGER-Okay.
MR. SCUDDER-The incremental runoff from those driveways is not going to be noticed, but he’s
right to raise the issue, I’ll grant you.
MR. VOLLARO-I think he probably raises that based on the fact that when properties are
developed, their surface water should be retained on the property. I guess that was his basic thought.
MR. SCUDDER-Sure, but if you contained every single drop, that would mean that every driveway
has to slope in towards the.
MR. VOLLARO-If you get 98% of it, you’re doing pretty good.
MR. SCUDDER-We’re going to do that, but his point is well taken.
MR. KELLEY-I’d only make the comment, having been in the construction business 25 years before
this, you never build below the road. It’s kind of like, you don’t do that.
MR. VOLLARO-Water still runs downhill. You’ve got a point.
MR. SCUDDER-I also said that Main Street is a County way. So we’ve got to get a driveway permit
from Warren County to do anything, and if they’re not happy about the drainage situation, they’ll
certainly let us know, but I don’t anticipate they’re going to have a problem with it. Then he raised
the point that, it is not clear whether the entrance and exit drives will contain curbing to better define
the access points. Well, we don’t want curbing. I think curbing would be counter productive,
because then it would force all the water in the driveways to run out into the road, and we don’t want
curbing anyway. I just said there will be no curbing on the driveways.
MR. VOLLARO-The radius of 20 feet is just a cut.
MR. SCUDDER-Yes, it’s a curb cut, and it’s going to be planter on, you know, green areas on both
sides. I envision a planter, mulched, elevated a bit so that water doesn’t spill anywhere, but still able
to absorb what comes off the driveway, and the twelfth point was, the wastewater disposal system is
shown using “In Flow” absorption beds. The plans do not include area calculations for this system
or an expansion area. Actually, in my engineering report, I gave a detailed design of this system as a
proprietary treatment and absorption system. It’s really In Drain, a system accepted by the Town of
Queensbury and the New York State Department of Health. It’s being used extensively, particularly
around Lake George because you get more water into the ground in a small area, and we’re going to
use that system here because we don’t have a lot of space to spare, and further, the system, if things
eventuate the way the planners seem to think they will, there’ll be a sewer out there on Main Street in
a year or two or three, or something like that.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s what they told me in Baybridge 15 years ago, Mr. Scudder.
MR. SCUDDER-And when they have that sewer, you’re going to connect.
MR. VOLLARO-And I still don’t have sewers.
MR. SCUDDER-I wrote the description of the common property for your offering plan.
MR. VOLLARO-And I’ve read it about 12 times.
MR. SCUDDER-Its says you have to connect, doesn’t it?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, but we don’t have them up there yet. Just saying that we’re planning to have
sewers on, off of Exit 18 doesn’t mean they’ll ever be there.
MR. SCUDDER-That’s true. It’s not my projection, but even if not, we’re not designing on that
assumption. I said the principal advantages to be gained in the use of In Drains lies in the size and
credit of seven square feet per linear foot of trench length, and the biological treatment occurring
within the units before wastewater flows into the soil, which is a claim elaborated in the Elgin
literature. The system we propose for the new bagel shop and restaurant is designed to absorb a
daily discharge of some 1300 gallons a day, which is equivalent to the design discharge from two five
bedroom homes. At the percolation test rate of one to five minutes per inch, the required In Drain
trench length is rounded up to 156 lineal feet. We’ve provided 160 lineal feet, which is to say four
lengths of forty feet, which shows up on your drawing there. With regard to the question of an
expansion area, we believe none is needed. First, the wastewater will receive good grease and septic
tank pre-treatment. Second, the Elgin company asserts that the In Drain systems are designed to
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operate indefinitely, not for a useful life of 15 or 30 years, which is what conventional septic systems,
if you get 15 years out of it, it may be time to do it again. Right? Third, the expectation expressed
both by the Queensbury Planning Department and the Warren County Planning Office is that a
municipal sewer will be constructed along Main Street in a year or two or three. At worst, if the
projections were to turn out wrong, the system could be rebuilt in a day or two. We could provide a
50% expansion by invading the planter. To provide a 100% expansion area, we’d have to move the
building away from the road. We don’t want to move it away from the road, and I don’t think the
Planners want us to move it away from the road. Thirteen, percolation results or test pit locations
are not shown on the plans, also, the recommended building separation for the disposal system is 20
feet compared to the 14 feet shown. Well, you’ve already made reference to the horizontal
separation requirements with an earlier project.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes. I’m looking at this and I get the same 14 feet that Mr. Edwards does, and I
look at, as long as we’re on this, we might as well exchange some information here. Looking at the
Department of Health required separation distances from wastewater system components, they talk
about absorption fields and also evapo transpiration absorption systems as well. In both cases, this is
to be 20 feet from the dwelling. Now, I understand that the Building Inspector says that because this
is a slab on grade, which I guess you agree that it is, by the way, a slab on grade construction, that
that particular portion of the Code does not apply.
MR. SCUDDER-That isn’t my argument, though. I’m not, what I’m going to do is ask the Code
Enforcement Officer to give us a waiver on that.
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t think he can pass the magic wand over that. That’s my problem. I think
that that has to go to the Town Board, when the Town Board convenes themselves as the Town
Board of Health, and grant a variance against the Code 136, in the Town of Queensbury. I don’t
think that the building now, this is one knot hole, Mr. Scudder, right here. So I’m not sure what, I’d
like to just talk to my Counsel for a minute on that subject. There’s a Department of Health
regulation that talks about a 20 foot separation from a dwelling to an absorption field of any kind.
MR. SCHACHNER-Correct.
MR. VOLLARO-We have a 14 foot separation on this application, and I think the Building
Inspector has said, well, because it’s a slab on grade, that this does not apply, this DOH required
separation distances for wastewater system components.
MR. SCHACHNER-I’m under the impression that the Building Inspector said that this doesn’t apply
because it’s not a residence. Correct?
MRS. MOORE-That’s correct.
MR. SCHACHNER-Not because of the manner of construction.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, but it says a dwelling.
MR. SCHACHNER-I’m sorry. I’m under the impression that the Building Inspector thinks this
doesn’t apply because the proposal is not for a dwelling. In other words, not the nature of the
construction, but the nature of the use, is my understanding.
MR. VOLLARO-I guess I would probably argue against that. I feel that a restaurant of this type fits
the definition of a dwelling, maybe not a residence, but a dwelling, and this doesn’t say residence. It
says a dwelling.
MR. SCHACHNER-What definition of dwelling are you looking at that you think restaurant fits?
MR. VOLLARO-What definition of a dwelling?
MR. SCHACHNER-I’m only asking you that, Bob, because you said you think that the restaurant
fits the definition of dwelling, and I’m wondering, are you looking at a particular definition, or just in
your mind?
MR. VOLLARO-What’s in my mind. People inside residing at tables and sitting and dwelling within
that unit for the period of time of having lunch, breakfast, dinner or whatever. The DOH thing
seems pretty clear to me, and I think this requires a variance from the Town Board of Health. That’s
my opinion.
MR. SCHACHNER-I guess I can only give you my off the cuff reaction, because I wasn’t aware of
this issue before this moment. My off the cuff reaction is two fold. I think the person you’re
referring to is our Building Inspector. His name is Dave Hatin. I think he’s pretty familiar with
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these provisions. If I understand it correctly, his determination is that the regulation you’re referring
to is not applicable, not because of the manner of construction, but because this is not a dwelling. I
will say from my standpoint, although we can investigate this if the Board wants us to, your
interpretation of the word “dwelling” does not comport with our general legal interpretation of the
word “dwelling”. Dwelling is usually legally construed to mean residence, as opposed to a
commercial business, which would not be a dwelling, and again, I’m just telling you my off the cuff
reaction. I, like you, cannot point to a definition, as we sit here today, that says that, although I think
I probably can do that. I just can’t do it now without advanced warning, but generally speaking, I
think there are a number of places that the word “dwelling” is defined to mean residential, and the
way you use people dwelling at a table in a restaurant, I think is probably not the way that it’s
typically used in regulations, but, just like you, I’m sort of speaking out of the top of my head,
without having researched it.
MR. VOLLARO-I guess, when I see design standards, I find them hard to deviate from design
standards like that.
MR. SCHACHNER-As well you should.
MR. VOLLARO-And I just have a problem with that area. I’m trying to resolve that in my mind,
and I have a problem with it, and until it gets resolved by somebody smarter than me, I’ll have a
problem with it, I suppose, on this application.
MR. KELLEY-Can I comment?
MR. RINGER-Go ahead, Jeff.
MR. KELLEY-I guess only as a matter of point, or whatever, you’ve, obviously, read all of the
information that was here, and the variances that we’ve received and all that sort of thing.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes.
MR. KELLEY-It was the Town’s, the Town Planners, let’s say, vision that this building be brought
forward from the current 75 foot setback to a 35 foot, and they recommended that we bring this
building forward to put parking in the rear.
MR. VOLLARO-Right.
MR. KELLEY-When they did that, that caused some of this problem that you see, and the other
thing that we’ve kind of thought about and addressed in the plan, also, I think if you look at that, the
one with the contours on it, there was a sidewalk. There was, I believe, a five foot space and then an
eight foot planter, two foot space and then there’s a planter.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, that’s going down to Corinth Road.
MR. KELLEY-Right. Okay. We kind of left the little fudge factor error area there, I guess you’d call
it. Back, you know, a year or so ago, I happened to live there, they flagged both sides of the road
with little orange flags, to represent where this three lane highway was going to go, and those little
flags are about, well, right along the inside property line of the sidewalk, okay, but just because they
say, here are the flags, when they come to build the road, they say, well, maybe we need another
couple of feet, okay. So we’ve left the little area there so if they needed to take a couple, three feet, I
still wouldn’t have a problem, in terms of, you know, the building being terribly close to the property,
or the road being now into that planter or septic system.
MR. VOLLARO-I can see how you got into this situation.
MR. KELLEY-I’m just kind of giving you a little overview. It doesn’t answer your question, but it’s
kind of like food for thought, I guess.
MR. VOLLARO-Well, you were squashed in two ways. You were squashed against the 20 foot spec,
and you also just made the 10 foot spec with your septic tank. It’s just 10 feet. So, having brought
the building forward gave you this problem.
MR. SCUDDER-We understand that, I guess I could say, thoroughly. I’m familiar with that 20 foot
requirement. I used to enforce that requirement when I worked for the State Health Department
years ago, but the mitigating situation here is that we’re trying to satisfy criteria that are not on the
books yet.
MR. VOLLARO-That criteria meaning the new zoning law that’s been proposed.
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MR. SCUDDER-Yes, and the other thing that is in mitigation here is the notion that the road is
going to be re-done and that there will be a public sewer there, and this wastewater system will be
abandoned, and converted into a green space or a garden space, or al fresco dining or something.
MR. VOLLARO-I understand that, Mr. Scudder. I fully appreciate where you’re coming from.
MR. SCUDDER-Okay.
MR. VOLLARO-It’s the same problem Mr. Valente was in when he built the design that you put out
in back of our, he had the same problem. The sewers were going to come in, so, he put a septic field
instead.
MR. SCUDDER-Yes, but we didn’t think they were going to come in in two years
MR. VOLLARO-You said in a couple of years.
MR. RINGER-Let’s stay on this issue.
MR. VOLLARO-I’ll stay on this issue, but I’m just trying to say, we shouldn’t be designing on the
proposition that something is coming in at a later date. That’s not a good design premise, in my
opinion.
MR. RINGER-And I would agree with you normally.
MR. SCHACHNER-Maybe before we leave that item, I just wanted to ask Mr. Scudder, because
maybe I’m confused, but in your last comment, are you saying that your belief is that the 20 foot
separation requirement would apply, and that you’re saying you don’t need to meet it because of your
mitigative measures?
MR. SCUDDER-No, I’m not saying that.
MR. SCHACHNER-Okay. Because you said something about (lost words).
MR. SCUDDER-I agree with your earlier remarks, and I’m not saying that, but I’m just trying to
offer some further mitigation.
MR. SCHACHNER-All right. Thank you.
MR. SCUDDER-Fourteen, we agree that a clean out should be installed as suggested, and the
suggestion is, the six inch lateral from the east side of the building should contain a clean out at the
90 degree bend, and there’s a little circle there, we’re talking about where the pipe comes out of the
building up by the entrance, on the easterly side of the building, up by the entrance, there’s a little
vestibule, or porch, or entrance.
MR. VOLLARO-There’s a little jog in the building.
MR. SCUDDER-A little jog in the building, and you can see that the building drain comes out near
that, and it’s at that point, because that is unsettled wastewater, there should be a clean out, in case
that pipe needs treatment. We agree with that, and we will do that.
MR. RINGER-Have you got anything else?
MR. SCUDDER-Well, if you have any further questions.
MR. RINGER-The Board will be asking questions. I just wanted to make sure we covered this stuff
from C.T. Male and your comments.
MR. SCUDDER-Yes. Are there any questions about the C.T. Male matter?
MR. RINGER-I’m sure several members of the Board are going to have questions of you, perhaps in
regard to C.T. Male and other things that they have concerns about, and that’s what we’ll handle
now.
MR. SCUDDER-Well, then I’ll rest right here.
MR. RINGER-John, we’ll start up at your end.
MR. STROUGH-Well, first of all, I commend you for trying to make this project fit in with what’s
not on the books yet, in the sense that parking’s in the rear. That’s a concept we’d like to pursue.
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You’ve shown interconnecting ability with adjacent lots, which is something that we would really like,
and I see sometimes we’ve got to fight for it. You’ve already allocated for it. That’s nice. The
setback from the road, and even after my discussions with Laura, I’m convinced that are satisfactory,
and meeting just about every future need I could think of. So that’s good, and I commend you on
that. Is there a residence to the rear of you?
MR. KELLEY-Actually, there’s a residential lot and a house, but the house is on Pine Street. So
you’d have to come like in their back yard, that total distance of whatever Hess is, before you get to
my property, and then it goes beyond. You have to kind of walk way out in back and then look over
to see the house. If you could walk right straight behind my property, the woods end, and it
becomes mowed, where their back yard is, and their back yard’s got to be 300 feet deep, probably.
MR. STROUGH-Well, the reason why I asked was I just wondered, I do see two light poles back
there, and so I don’t know anything about the lamps. I don’t know how high they are. I don’t know
the intensity of the lighting. I mean, and so I was concerned that there might be some wash or some
impact on that residential area, and I see there’s plantings, but I don’t know how well developed
that’s going to be.
MR. KELLEY-Well, the one thing I mentioned before, I was working with the lighting design guy,
an engineer two provide two foot candles per square foot, which is what the Town, or the
Beautification, or somebody.
MR. SCUDDER-I think that’s proposed by the Town, isn’t it, Laura, two foot candles?
MRS. MOORE-There’s a four to one ratio.
MR. KELLEY-Well, anyway, to meet this, I’ve been told by my lighting man that that is not bright
lighting. I mean, it’s lit, but it’s more of a subdued, if you could look at two foot candles per square
foot.
MR. STROUGH-Yes. I know, but usually, we have an idea because of size, we’re given some idea of
what kind of poles we’re dealing with. We’re given the kind of lighting, as well as the lighting plan
where we can see it doesn’t wash, it has cut offs so no light will be, you know, towards the rear. It’ll
all be shown toward the parking lot. I mean, usually, I don’t have any of that.
MR. KELLEY-I don’t have that, either. I’m in the process of coming up with this lighting plan. The
thing that we first envisioned, and me not being a light expert either, was that it would be a, I mean, I
didn’t want a 25 or a 30 foot pole. I mean, I envisioned something 13 feet or in that realm, and the
original thought was to have the type that was covered on the top and it would direct the light down,
and apparently there is something available that will provide the lighting that’s needed that looks like
that, but the fellow also mentioned to me that it’s possible to get proper lighting in a Victorian
lamppost, which they used, I believe, on the main street of Saratoga, on Broadway, they have the
lighting and they come out on a thing with an acorn shape frosted glass or white glass type glow,
which looks more like a street light kind of thing, and that may be a possibility, because I kind of like
the sound of what it looked like, in terms of the décor we’re trying to do with the building. So
anyway, I don’t have this plan, but I’ll answer a little more, if I can. To the rear, we have a 50 foot
buffer zone that you can see on that plan. Right now, I mean, it’s thick. My intention is basically to
clean it up, not go in and just clear cut everything and then plant some new trees. I mean, if I can
leave, you know, some good timber that’s already there, I have a couple of maple trees on one side of
the property that are huge that I want to try to leave, and I think I can. I mean, if I did anything, it
would probably be more like to kind of trim it and be able to rake it, and see what it looks like, and
maybe at some point, if there wasn’t much of anything that was any good there, I’d probably get into
mowing it and whatever, but I’m going to try to keep something, when you think of a buffer, I mean,
to me, it’s not just a space with nothing on it. I mean, it’s a protective thing to kind of cut down the
visual impact, let’s say, from the property behind or whatever. I guess all I can say is I’m going to try,
and when my lighting man gets the plan, I’m sure somebody will have to go approve it or sign off
that, yes, this meets our criteria or whatever.
MR. STROUGH-I’m sure you’d do a good job. I’m convinced of that, but usually there’s something
here that we can go by.
MR. RINGER-I would think that before you get an approval that you’re going to need another
meeting, with a site plan that’s going to show the lighting and all the things that Male has required.
That’s my guess tonight, that we’re going to require that you come back again with a site plan with all
of these things, a lighting plan and a beautification plan and so forth. I’m sorry, John, I didn’t mean
to interrupt you.
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MR. STROUGH-That’s okay. That’s fine. Okay. It’s a great project. The design doesn’t quite fit in
with the proposed, and it’s only a proposed, you know, suggested design standards of the area,
although the building was quite nice, I like the one that you’ve got better than the one I’ve got.
MR. KELLEY-Yes, well, that was back a while ago. That was more of a, just a basic.
MR. STROUGH-It looks a lot nicer, that’s nicer than what I have. Okay, and it’s a very attractive
building. It looks very nice, and I’m sure it’s going to add to the general area. Why is it you have, I
see you have the one way traffic flow, but why do you have it like you do? I mean, as you approach
your place from the east, is the exit, and then you have the entrance to the west. Do you know
where I’m coming from?
MR. KELLEY-I think what you’ve got, on the right, does it say that that’s the exit?
MR. STROUGH-Yes.
MR. KELLEY-Okay. That’s been changed. That’s the entrance.
MR. STROUGH-Well, that’s why it didn’t make sense.
MR.. KELLEY-Well, Charlie will fend for himself.
MR. SCUDDER-I can explain that.
MR. KELLEY-There’s a reason.
MR. STROUGH-As long it was reversed.
MR. SCUDDER-It was reversed. Is that wrong?
MR. RINGER-It would be wrong if you were marketing your plan. Most of your traffic’s going to
come up, versus coming down.
MR. STROUGH-If it’s reversed, I have no problem with it.
MR. SCUDDER-It is reversed. I was fixated on the idea of getting the trucks in there to those
loading areas, and we thought about that some more and realized that it’s unconventional to do it
that way, and it’s unintuitive. So we changed it.
MR. STROUGH-I can understand your original thinking, too. Okay. That’s all I have for now.
MR. RINGER-Chris?
MR. HUNSINGER-I guess a lot of my thoughts would sort of echo John’s. I like the proposed
drawing on the board better than what we had before. I guess there was one thing, specifically, I did
want to get clarified, though, and that is, I think it’s in our Staff notes that it talks about a condition
that would require the applicant to allow shared access to your drive. I guess that might be out the
window now anyway.
MR. KELLEY-No, there was somewhere, I think it was the idea dependent upon what happened on
either side of us.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. KELLEY-Well, obviously, Hess, I mean, that’s a wide open thing. So that, I don’t think, applies
to what you’re saying. The other side, I’m trying to think how big that piece of property is. It’s
basically three lots. It’s a pretty good sized parcel. I mean, I don’t have a clue what’s ever going to
go there down the road, but, I mean, I guess I don’t really have a problem if somewhere down the
road there’s a design that they want it to come out on mine or use mine as half and they do another
one and make a double thing. I don’t know. If it works, it doesn’t bother me. I kind of understood
where they were coming from.
MR. HUNSINGER-I’m just trying to avoid curb cuts and make traffic work better.
MR. VOLLARO-I think that was a recommendation that Marilyn Ryba made.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. RINGER-Wherever we can to get shared driveways and connecting access.
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MR. HUNSINGER-And I had similar comments and thoughts about the lighting and would like to
see more detail as well. That’s about it.
MR. RINGER-Okay. Tony?
MR. METIVIER-My only concern, I think it should go in front of Beautification. It’s important
here to have a plan, but I, too, I like the design, but I think both Beautification and a lighting plan
would be important for us to see. That’s all.
MR. RINGER-Bob?
MR. VOLLARO-Other than what I’ve said, I’m just wondering about the height of this fence,
because that’s, was that specified anywhere? I notice there’s a fence surrounding the property. Is
that there now?
MR. KELLEY-The fence, I’m trying to remember, do we have that actually on the thing originally?
No, it was the Beautification Committee, I think, that originally brought up about a fence, and I
guess they had a couple of reasons why they talked about a fence. One was headlights. We’re not
open at night.
MR. SCUDDER-Well, one was headlights, because when we went in front of the Beautification
Committee, we were thinking about entering on the westerly side, and there’s a house there, and so
the concept of a fence was raised by the Beautification Committee. They haven’t seen the revised
plan. I’m not sure the headlights will bother the Hess station.
MR. STROUGH-That property on the west side, isn’t that for sale?
MR. KELLEY-Well, that’s the bagel store where I am, and then there’s a house that’s right next to it.
Norm Benack owns it, and he’s kind of got it for sale, but I don’t think he’s really actively marketed
it. I mean, you know, I talked to him numerous times about purchasing it, but he wants an
exorbitant amount of money, and I can’t do that. I can do this whole thing for less than he wants.
It’s crazy.
MR. VOLLARO-Are you planning to take the fence off the drawing? Is that what I’m hearing?
MR. KELLEY-You know, I don’t know. I guess I’ve got mixed emotions. I think a fence is okay. I
mean, I’ve got one in front of my house. The other thing that would possibly make me, yes, want to
go with the fence the way they suggested is, on that west side of the building, you don’t have a floor
plan that’s behind that, but there’s also an outside eating area that would have some tables with the
umbrella type things, and this sort of thing. I think they were also concerned about, I don’t know,
whether the people sitting there would look at the house or whether the people at the house would
be looking at these people dining.
MR. VOLLARO-Is this in the patio area? Is that what you’re talking about?
MR. SCUDDER-Right.
MR. KELLEY-I guess from that standpoint, I probably would want the fence, just because it might
be prettier to look at if you’re sitting there dining than a house.
MR. VOLLARO-Kind of your call.
MR. KELLEY-Well, you know, what we had talked about, okay, was basically something starting at
the sidewalk that would be low, so that it wouldn’t obstruct vision, and then on a taper to, you know,
like a four foot height, and the thing that I had talked to them about was a picket type fence, but
closed with no spaces in it. It would be painted.
MR. VOLLARO-Like a stockade fence?
MR. KELLEY-Yes, only cut down, you know, it would be more like a four foot high things, with
some plantings along in front of it.
MR. SCUDDER-Stockade fences are nice when they’re first put up, but they get ugly in a hurry, in
my opinion.
MR. VOLLARO-I was just wondering what Mr. Kelley had in mind, that’s all.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MR. STROUGH-I was also worried, too, it could make you feel real closed in. I don’t know if I like
that appearance. I mean, I’m looking from Main Street. I like the idea of a taper. That’s better, but
you’re right about those stockade fences.
MR. KELLEY-The other things that they talked about was that I only go back on the west side
where the house is, what is it, 75 feet, I think it was. There was a limitation as to how far back. In
other words, yes, so that it would get beyond where the house is.
MR. SCUDDER-The Beautification Committee’s concern was headlights splashing into that house.
That was their focus, on the west side.
MR. RINGER-You’re going back to Beautification Committee with the idea of changing that
driveway around and maybe they would make some other recommendations, and you can make a
decision on.
MR. SCUDDER-Right. We’re going to show them a planting schedule anyway, and we have
conditional approval, or preliminary approval, but they want to see particulars.
MR. RINGER-Did you have anything else, Bob?
MR. VOLLARO-None other than the stuff I’ve already talked about.
MR. RINGER-Laura, did you have anything? I think we’re going to table this, Laura. I just wanted
to know, if we were going to table this, if you had anything else that you would like, reasons or things
you would like them to look at or?
MRS. MOORE-My understanding is the following, that the application will most likely go back to
the Beautification Committee for acceptance? A revised site plan that should be submitted to Staff
should show survey elevations, the revised entrance and exits, and then I have something in regards
to a plan should also be submitted in regards to lighting that includes lighting of the parking area and
lighting of the building, indicating pole heights and light fixtures.
MR. RINGER-Those were the notations I had down, too.
MRS. MOORE-Okay, and then with the fence, I’m not certain where the discussion went, but some
type of information should be described on the material of the fence, and the height of the fence, if
that is proposed.
MR. RINGER-Okay. Does everyone agree that we should table this? Okay. In tabling to get more
information on the lighting plan, a new site plan to show a lighting plan, elevation, plantings, showing
the fence and what the fence is to be made of, height, anything else?
MR. VOLLARO-Well, how did we leave Marilyn Ryba’s recommendation for shared access?
MR. STROUGH-What do you mean?
MR. RINGER-Marilyn had made a recommendation.
MR. VOLLARO-For shared access.
MR. STROUGH-It shows right on the plan.
MRS. MOORE-That’s considered interconnected access. Shared access, she meant in regards to the
actual entrance area, which is interconnection. So it is still up to the Board, if you think that
interconnection is acceptable, that’s up to you, versus.
MR. RINGER-I find it difficult to tell an applicant you’ve got to have a shared driveway when we
don’t have the other property owner next to him agreeing that he, you know, I have a problem with
that. I making any sense?
MR. SCHACHNER-Well, yes, if that’s your sort of philosophical opinion that you don’t like or want
to consider that, but legally you do have the ability, if you wish, to require that of an applicant, from
the standpoint of assuming that this would be the reason, from the standpoint of safety of traffic
flow, and not having too many curb cuts or too many points of ingress and egress over a particular
corridor, and actually, I think this Board’s done that in the past, and in fact, I think in at least one
instance, when the neighbor wasn’t so thrilled about it, meaning the next property owner. I’m not
saying you should do that in this case. That’s obviously your decision, but I think the basis for the
recommendation, at least typically, is Staff’s concerns that there not be too many curb cuts, too many
separate points of ingress and egress on some of our, you know, corridor roads.
33
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MR. RINGER-And I agree with that. I just have difficulty, you know, with property that we don’t
know what’s going to be there. We don’t know the size of it. We just don’t have any information on
the property next door.
MR. SCHACHNER-All true, and I’m not saying you should do it. I’m just saying I think my role is
to just indicate that you have the legal authority to require that that option be preserved, if you wish
to do that, and one of the ways that I think that’s been done in the past is language like making sure
that the plan and that the development of the site physically allows for a possibility of shared access
if the future use, as you say you don’t know, on the adjacent lot, is something that you end up
requiring utilizing that shared access.
MR. RINGER-We can decide that when it comes time to make a motion to approve, if we want that,
so that isn’t something, we’re going to table it because of that. I mean, one of the reasons for tabling
it. I think we’ve got enough reasons for tabling it now.
MR. SCHACHNER-Sure, that’s fine.
MR. HUNSINGER-My feeling on that issue is I asked the applicant and he said he had no problem
with it. I mean, speaking in hypothetical.
MR. SCHACHNER-Right, but I think part of where Larry’s coming from, Chris, is the other
property owner, I think, is where he’s coming from, right?
MR. RINGER-Right.
MR. SCHACHNER-In other words, the applicant may have no trouble with that, but in theory,
you’re also leading the way toward having some unknown project on some unknown property from
some unknown next door neighbor owner maybe tie into that, and what I’m saying is my role is only
to say to you, you have the legal authority to do that, to preserve that option, if you wish.
MR. RINGER-All right. Then I need a motion to table.
MR. VOLLARO-To what date?
MR. RINGER-Okay. Our next meeting is the 19 of September, I believe. Do you think you can
th
have all the information we’ve asked by then?
MR. VOLLARO-We’ve got a lot tabled on that date.
MR. RINGER-We’ve got two things tabled, well, one thing tabled. Waverly is the only thing tabled
for that. Do you think you could make the 19 of September?
th
MR. SCUDDER-Yes. I just want to be very clear on what it is you’re looking for.
MR. RINGER-We’re looking for a new site plan showing the lighting plan, the detailed lighting plan,
with survey elevations, plantings, and the fence, what you’re going to do and how it’s going to be,
and also you’ll be back to the Beautification Committee by then, with some of their
recommendations? Are you going to be able to do that by the 19?
th
MR. SCUDDER-Yes.
MRS. MOORE-Can I interrupt? You already have several items tabled to the 19.
th
MR. RINGER-Waverly. What else do we have besides Waverly?
MRS. MOORE-You have SBA.
MR. RINGER-I thought we changed them to the 26?
th
MRS. MOORE-No, at your last Planning Board meeting, at your first Planning Board meeting in the
month of August you tabled SBA to a September 19 meeting, and then your Independent Wireless
th
is another cell tower.
MR. RINGER-Then we’ll change that to the 26.
th
MRS. MOORE-My other comment is that our submission deadline for applications is August 30. I
th
would request the applicant provide, you know, you, the Planning Board, can change his submission
34
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
deadline date to a date that can also be reviewed by Staff, and by C.T. Male. So I would change his
submission date to another date.
MR. RINGER-That they think they can get it to you by, you know, C.T. Male.
MRS. MOORE-In sufficient time before the meeting, so that if there is C.T. Male comments, that
the applicant has adequate time to respond and our goal here is to obtain the C.T. Male sign off.
MR. RINGER-Right, and I wouldn’t want to go through what we had tonight. So how about if they
got that information to you by the 8?
th
MRS. MOORE-If Mr. Scudder thinks he can do that.
MR. SCUDDER-I can do my work by the eighth, but what about the Beautification Committee?
When is that meeting?
MRS. MOORE-I believe that is the 11 of September, as far as I know. If you’re able to submit us
th
information by September 8, what we do is we give that information to the Beautification
th
Committee the night of their meeting.
MR. VOLLARO-It looks like the 26.
th
MR. RINGER-Yes. I had a public hearing on this. So before I table this, I better open the public
hearing. Are there any comments?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. RINGER-Okay. I’m going to leave the public hearing open. Now, let’s make a motion to
table.
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 63-2000 JEFFREY L. KELLEY, Introduced by
Larry Ringer who moved for its adoption, seconded by Chris Hunsinger:
Until the 26 of September, with a submission deadline date of the 8 of September. To come back
thth
with a new site plan showing a detailed lighting plan, survey elevations, plantings, and if he’s going to
do a fence, and what he’s going to do the fence with, so C.T. Male can get all that information, and
then come back to us.
Duly adopted this 24 day of August, 2000, by the following vote:
th
AYES: Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Vollaro, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Strough, Mr. Ringer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. MacEwan
MR. SCUDDER-Thank you very much?
MR. RINGER-Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you.
SITE PLAN NO. 40-2000 TYPE: UNLISTED RENALD DEVINE, CONTRACT
VENDEE OWNER: GLENS FALLS NATIONAL BANK AGENT: MICHAEL
MULLER ZONE: LI-1A LOCATION: 49 BOULEVARD (SOUTH SIDE) APPLICANT
PROPOSES TO UTILIZE AN EXISTING BUILDING FOR RETAIL SALES OF
BILLARD TABLES AND ACCESSORIES. A USE VARIANCE IS REQUESTED
BECAUSE RETIAL SALES IS NOT AN ALLOWABLE USE IN A LI ZONE. NEW USES
IN LI ZONES REQUIRE PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS
REFERENCE: USE VARIANCE 51-2000, SV 52-2000, AV 18-1991, SP 18-91
BEAUTIFICATION COMM.: 6/12/00 WARREN CO. PLANNING: 6/14/00 TAX MAP
NO. 112-1-13 LOT SIZE: 50’ X 133’ SECTION: 179-26
MICHAEL BORGOS, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 40-2000, Renald Devine, Contract Vendee, Meeting Date: June 27,
2000 “Project Description
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
The applicant proposes to utilize an existing 1,872 sq. ft. building to operate a retail store for billiard
tables and billiard accessories, located in a light-industrial zone. The applicant has received a use
variance. See attached variance. The applicant has also provided a revised survey of the property.
Project Analysis (Section 179-38)
The proposed use as reviewed by staff was found to be compliant with Sections 179-38 A, B, C, D
and E of the Town Code. The building is located in a mixed-use area between residential and
warehouse industry.
Site Overview
The applicant does not propose any exterior building improvements or lighting. The
applicant has applied for a sign variance for the location. The sign variance was tabled at the
ZBA for additional information.
Traffic, Circulation, Parking
The existing access is a wide curbcut between the road and the building. There is access to
the side of the building via an adjacent driveway. The plan does not indicate customer,
employee or delivery areas. The applicant has indicated 800 square feet is gross leasable
floor space for the business. There is adequate parking on the site were four spaces are
required and five are proposed.
Utility, Stormwater, Landscaping, Emergency Services
The applicant and the agent met with the Beautification Committee and developed a
landscape plan for the site. The applicant intends to plant tiger lilies on the east side of the
building, and low spreading shrubs underneath the windows on the north side/front of
building. The location of the existing sign will change to be perpendicular with the road
with a flower box beneath it. The beautification recommendations and the applicant’s
landscape plan are provided for the Board’s review. Since there are no significant site
improvements the existing stormwater and sewer design would remain the same.
Areas of Concern or Importance
The applicant has indicated a list of requested waivers. The waivers requested appear appropriate
because the use is located in a preexisting building. The proposed project is located in
Neighborhood Ten of the 1998 Comprehensive Plan.
Conclusions (Section 179-39)
The proposed use will not have a significant adverse environmental impact because the
comprehensive plan recognizes this area should allow commercial, office, and residential uses.
Suggestions
Staff would suggest granting the waivers as requested.”
MR. RINGER-Okay. Nothing else, Laura?
MRS. MOORE-No.
MR. RINGER-Okay. Would you please identify yourselves for the record?
MR. BORGOS-Michael Borgos, from Muller & Muller, representing the applicant. A brief
description of the project is use of an existing building on a very small lot on the Boulevard, on the
south side, in a Light Industrial zone. We do have a Use Variance that’s been granted to use it for
retail sales. I could qualify that and let you know that it’s only going to be minimally used for retail
sales. The need of the applicant is for warehouse space. Billiard tables are very large items, and he
needed a warehouse facility. He also sells some of these tables, occasionally. They’re big ticket
items. They’re about $2500 on the low end, and they go up to about $10,000. So you don’t sell a lot
of these tables. You don’t have a lot of traffic in and out. You have quite a bit of repair and
installation work. So he has a need for a facility to take and disassemble tables, if you will, from
somebody’s home, re-felt the rails, and then take it back out again. So it’s that type of facility, and
not very many people come in and out.
MR. RINGER-Is he still going to keep this place in Glens Falls on Lawrence Street?
MR. BORGOS-That’s for sale.
MR. RINGER-Anything else?
MR. BORGOS-One of the big things that, when we went through this intensively with the Zoning
Board, we tried to figure out the best location for a sign, and what you see on our proposed plan here
is the location of the sign on the front of the building. The existing sign was for CDK Electric. That
was the prior use that had come before this Board back in 1991. They did not have foot traffic
coming in and out. They were not selling to the public. So their need for a sign to be visible to
36
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
traffic back and forth on the Boulevard was very minimal. We propose to turn the sign 90 degrees,
and we’re seeking setback relief so we can place it, it would be outside of the planter box four feet
from the property line. So you look at the plan, and you see that this is a very, very wide roadway,
and it’s my understanding from the survey that the Boulevard is that wide because the trolley from
Fort Edward to Glens Falls used to run down that street, and you had both motor vehicle traffic on
that as well as the trolley lines. So there’s actually 22 feet from the edge of the fog line, the white line
on the side of the southern traffic lane to the property line, and we propose to go another six feet to
the sign post, and it’s four feet to the edge of the planter box. We looked at many different
configurations with the Zoning Board, trying to come up with a sign location. We were on for last
night but tabled until some time in the future when the Sign Ordinance is actually filed with the
Department of State in Albany. We were aware of those problems. We had originally proposed to
have the sign over on the northeasterly corner, but that raised some problems with double relief,
essentially, from the 15 foot setback requirement. So we’ve moved it to the middle so we don’t have
any side setback concerns, and we propose to keep it the distance from the front line there, so it’ll be
visible from cars approaching from Glens Falls, as you’re heading to Hudson Falls. If you see on the
plan there’s an existing two story apartment building to the west. That and the mature maple tree in
front of the building effectively screen this parcel and this building from that traffic. That’s why you
need to have a sign out there as much as you can, so it will be visible to people passing by. I think
that would be the major concern that you would have, in addition to parking, and also you’d
probably have questions about why we have so much parking when Staff notes indicate you only
need four spaces. That arose out of our concern with the Zoning Board. In our various meetings
with them, Craig Brown had originally interpreted the regulations to be eight parking spaces. That’s
since been revised down to four. We have three interior spaces for employees that are in the garage
door area at the southeast corner of the building. So all we really need is a spot or two for the public
coming in to look at a table, and this business is mostly done out of catalogues. They look at a table
and see a picture of what they like, and they order it, and quite often it’s done over the phone or
through the mail. So, again, we have 800 square feet of retail space within this building, and the reg’s
say we need four spaces. We propose to put those four out front, but if the Board has any problems
with that, we’ve got plenty of space there to move those around and reconfigure them if you wish.
MR. RINGER-Okay. I’ll start at this end. Tony?
MR. METIVIER-I really don’t have much to say about it. I guess my concern, more than anything,
would be, I noticed when we were over there, it’s run down, in a sense. Do they have any plans of
upkeep?
MR. BORGOS-Well, this is a foreclosure building. Glens Falls National Bank is the current owner.
There would definitely be an increased upkeep. The lawn will be mowed. The trees trimmed. The
Beautification Committee suggested planting tiger lilies along the eastern wall, and that will be done.
The sign itself is going to be an attractive sign designed by Ken Wheeler who did the signs for the
entrances to Glens Falls, and they’ll have a shrub on either side of it, and flowers in between, around
the cedar posts. There’s not a whole lot of other space on this property. It’s a very small parcel of
property.
MR. METIVIER-So you were in front of Beautification and they made suggestions to you?
MR. BORGOS-Yes, that’s right.
MR. METIVIER-That’s fine.
MR. RINGER-That’s it, Tony? Questions, Bob?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes. Is the variance on the sign still tabled? In other words, we don’t have a
variance concluded on the sign?
MR. BORGOS-That’s correct. We have been before them on two prior occasions, and we have
their feedback, and what you see here is what a combination of the Board and Staff felt was
acceptable. I know Staff notes from Craig Brown have indicated that there are compliant locations
on the parcel, and my intention is to address the Zoning Board and explain and demonstrate that the
compliant locations are not visible as approach from the west, and I have a photograph, I didn’t
bring all of them for you because I didn’t anticipate that, but this one here would kind of give you an
indication. It was taken from the perspective of standing on the property line, on the property to the
west, and again, this is taken from the boundary line of the apartment house to the west, and you’ll
see how everybody parks on that street, as it is, and that’s certainly what was done before. If you
look at the ’91 site plan, they had tried to have the cars come in at an angle that’s parallel with the
roadway. It was just never done. It would be very hard to accomplish. People simply pull in at a
slight angle, and that’s what we’ve tried to do on the plan here. We couldn’t achieve a 45, but the
angle that we have coming in off the Boulevard will enable even a large vehicle to come in and back
out, without getting anywhere near the roadway, which is a primary concern. This photograph here
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
shows the mature maple tree, and the apartment house, which screen the building that is what the
applicant proposes to occupy.
MR. VOLLARO-Normally we approve a site plan after all the variances are complete, don’t we?
MR. RINGER-Normally, but in this particular case, the Sign Ordinance.
MR. VOLLARO-We’re up in the air on the Sign Ordinance anyway, is what you’re saying.
MR. RINGER-Right, and that’s why I don’t see a problem, unless someone else says, that we can
approve the plan subject to the variance being granted by the ZBA for the sign, if we get to it.
MR. SCHACHNER-Correct.
MR. RINGER-So I don’t see a problem with it, but if someone has a problem.
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t either. It’s just a matter of procedure. If we can go along with it, based on
an approval from the ZBA, that’s fine with me.
MR. SCHACHNER-Well, and I think the reason you can do that, if you wish, is because the
approval or the application request that’s pending before the ZBA is only for the sign, as I
understand it. The applicant has already received other variances allowing the facility.
MR. VOLLARO-That’s correct.
MR. SCHACHNER-If that were not the case, we would not sit here and say, sure, go ahead and
review the application pending the other variance request, but it’s only the sign that’s still pending.
Your approval of the application should indicate, if in fact you approve the application, that you’re
not, that any endorsement or any approval of the sign is subject to the Sign Variance being approved
by the Zoning Board of Appeals.
MR. RINGER-Do you have anything else, Bob? Chris?
MR. HUNSINGER-I really didn’t have anything. I mean, it’s a pretty tough site to work with, and
the building’s already there. So there’s really not a lot to get into.
MR. BORGOS-What we found, in going through the Use Variance application and that whole
procedure, was a realization that this type of operation is probably the perfect fit for this building and
this site, and anything more of a retail nature would be too intensive, and anything such as what was
there before, such as CDK Electric, it was too big of a space for a small shop like that, and if you get
any bigger, you need bigger equipment, and you get more employees, and it was a very difficult
situation, but this seems to work very well.
MR. RINGER-John?
MR. STROUGH-Yes. I sat through both Zoning Board meetings over this. I mean, I concluded
that it would be easier to get a zoning change than it would a Use Variance. It was a tough time for
them.
MR. HUNSINGER-That’s often true.
MR. STROUGH-I wasn’t aware of that until this project. Because, you know, the project seems to
be, or the proposal seems to be ideal for this site. I mean, though you’re medium impact, not a large
need for a lot of parking. He’s got those big garage doors down below for when he does the
assembly of the billiard tables. I mean, it just seems like a perfect site for him. So I’m very familiar
with the project, and have reviewed the project, and have no questions.
MR. RINGER-Okay. We’ve got a public hearing. Anyone from the public wish to speak?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. RINGER-We’ve got to do a SEQRA. Laura, in your Staff notes, you said the applicant had
requested waivers. I can’t find where he’s requested any waivers? What waivers has he requested?
38
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MRS. MOORE-Application, there’s a checklist in his application that he’s gone through and he’s
checked off, addressed each item, and there’s certain items that are under the “WR”, which are
Waiver Requested. Do you see those?
MR. RINGER-No.
MR. VOLLARO-I don’t have them, either.
MRS. MOORE-You have this checklist, and in the column, it says Waiver Requested.
MR. RINGER-I see. All right. Location of on site sewer, okay.
MR. BORGOS-Essentially it’s a pre-existing building. So that’s why those things were checked.
MR. RINGER-Okay. Let’s do a SEQRA.
MRS. MOORE-Okay.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 40-2000, Introduced by Robert Vollaro who moved for its adoption,
seconded by John Strough:
WHEREAS, there is presently before the Planning Board an application for:
RENALD DEVINE, and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board
action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No Federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is Unlisted in the Department of
Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality
Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and
having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation
of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action
about to be undertaken by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the
Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be
necessary a statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by
law.
Duly adopted this 24 day of August, 2000, by the following vote:
th
AYES: Mr. Strough, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Vollaro, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Ringer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. MacEwan
MR. RINGER-Laura, do we have to make a motion to agree to accept the waivers?
MRS. MOORE-That can be part of your motion.
MR. RINGER-That can? All right. Then I’m ready to entertain a motion, if anyone would like to
make one?
MR. VOLLARO-Before the motion, were hours of operation ever talked about before on this?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 8/24/00)
MR. STROUGH-Well, they were in the Zoning Board meeting.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay.
MR. STROUGH-Strictly a nine to five shop. If it’s anything after hours, it’s completely contained
within the building itself.
MR. VOLLARO-And we had no comments on lighting, I don’t remember any of those, up and
down the Board here.
MR. STROUGH-The only thing, the Beautification’s recommendations, does that have to be put in
the motion, or is that just, as a normal course of events, just happens?
MR. SCHACHNER-I mean, if you want the Beautification recommendation, which is all the
Beautification Committee response is, to be a requirement of the applicant, then you need to make
that a condition.
MR. STROUGH-Well, I think the applicant would have no problem with that because they’ve
already basically agreed to do what the Beautification Committee did, but it wouldn’t hurt to add it.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, there’s two specifics that they ask for.
MR. RINGER-Whoever makes the motion can include that in the motion.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, I was going to use these two right here in the motion itself. All right. I’ll
make the motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 40-2000 RENALD DEVINE/CONTRACT
VENDEE, Introduced by Robert Vollaro who moved for its adoption, seconded by John Strough:
Based on the following: One, the east side of the building would have planting of Tiger Lilies, and
the front below the windows with low spreading shrubs. A condition of approval would be that the
sign would be approved by the ZBA, or in conformance with the Town Code, and we agree to grant
the waivers that were requested.
Duly adopted this 24 day of August, 2000, by the following vote:
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MR. VOLLARO-It’s also dependent on the Sign Variance being approved by the ZBA.
MR. SCHACHNER-Excuse me. If you put it that way, that means that if the Sign Variance is
denied, the site plan approval is void. If that’s your intention, that’s fine, but if your intention, what I
was suggesting, I doubt that’s your intention. In other words, I’m not making this clear, but let’s say
the Sign Variance is denied, okay. If you approve the site plan, they can still do their use. They just
have to put the sign up in compliance with the Sign Ordinance. The way you just put it, if the Sign
Variance is denied, they have no site plan approval. Is that your intention?
MR. VOLLARO-So why even talk about that, then?
MR. SCHACHNER-What you should say is that the sign location is subject to the ZBA’s Sign
Variance, not that the entire site plan, not, that’s not a condition of your entire site plan approval.
MR. BORGOS-The sign would be in a location compliant with current Code or with a variance
granted by the ZBA.
MR. SCHACHNER-Correct.
MR. VOLLARO-Okay. So what I’m saying is, I’m suggesting that you change the wording of that
proposed condition, so that you word it to be referencing only the sign, not the entire site plan
approval.
MR. STROUGH-Well, why do you even have to make it a condition because?
MR. SCHACHNER-You should make it a condition, I think, for clarity of the record, so that
nobody can take the position that this Board has approved the sign at the proposed location.
Because this Board doesn’t currently have the authority to approve the sign at the proposed location.
MR. RINGER-And it’s on the site plan.
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MR. SCHACHNER-Correct.
MR. HUNSINGER-Couldn’t we just acknowledge the fact?
MR. SCHACHNER-That’s, essentially, what we’re saying.
MR. RINGER-It’s handled well the way Mark stated it, that we approve the plan and that the site
plan would be subject to approval of the, with the understanding that the sign would be. Do you
want to try it, Bob?
MR. VOLLARO-Yes. A condition of approval would be that the sign would be approved by the
ZBA.
MR. RINGER-Or in conformance with the Town Code.
MR. VOLLARO-Or in conformance with the Town Code. Fine.
MR. RINGER-And we agree to waive the requested waivers.
MR. VOLLARO-Yes, and agree to accept the waivers that were requested.
MRS. MOORE-You’re granting them.
MR. RINGER-Granting the waivers.
MR. RINGER-Yes, agree to accept the waivers.
MR. RINGER-Granting the waivers.
MR. VOLLARO-Granting or agree to accept, either one I would think is satisfactory.
MR. SCHACHNER-That’s fine. Granting seems fine.
MR. VOLLARO-Granting is fine. Okay.
AYES: Mr. Strough, Mr. Hunsinger, Mr. Vollaro, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Ringer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. MacEwan
MR. RINGER-You’re all set, Mike.
MR. BORGOS-Thank you.
MR. RINGER-We’ve got to do next month, site visits on the 16, two regular scheduled meetings
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the 19 and the 26. There may be an additional, I don’t know. We’ve got a meeting on the 29 at
ththth
the High School, seven o’clock.
MR. STROUGH-Have we worked out what we’re going to do at that meeting?
MR. RINGER-Okay. What Craig has told me at the meeting.
MR. STROUGH-I saw a draft, but I didn’t see any final version.
MR. RINGER-Well, the draft and the final version are basically the same, from what he has said.
The site plan and things are going to be on the wall, or somewhere. There will be copies of the EIS
around for those who haven’t read it, not that they’ll have an opportunity to read it. There’ll be a
sign up for questions. So the public will sign in, if they want to, and then they’ll be taking the
questions, or, you know, in the way they sign, they’ll be having the people come up the way they
signed.
MR. STROUGH-Who will be there, Laura, taking people’s names down?
MRS. MOORE-Currently, we’re in discussion about who is going to be there at six o’clock for sign
in opportunities, but there is, typically we’re just going to put a pad of paper out there and hope that
people are courteous to one another and sign in appropriately and not kill each other to get to the
first spot.
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MR. RINGER-Craig wants to try to stay in the time frame, if possible, understanding that we may
not get out of there at 10, but he’s going to try to stick as close to it. Probably he feels quite sure that
there’ll be a meeting right away, after that, a second meeting at least on this, and then possibly a third
meeting, where the Planning Board will be offering comments. The first meeting is going to be, he
felt, mainly for public input, and maybe even a second meeting of public input. He’s guessing on
some of that stuff.
MR. STROUGH-The meeting on Wednesday night will be here though, right?
MR. RINGER-Right. The next meeting will be here, and not at the School. Other comments that
just Craig and I had talked about, just kind of a protocol type thing, some of the things, when Paling
was Chairman of the Board and we had public input, Bob did an awfully good job of taking the input
from the public and not getting into a debate or discussion, and Craig felt, and I certainly agreed, and
I’m sure everyone here would agree, we should try to avoid getting into discussion too much with the
public, making comments or value statements or whatever. Let them make whatever comments they
have to say, and then it’s up to the applicant to answer those and it’s up to us to make sure that the
applicant answers them, rather than for us to try to answer the comments, and unfortunately, we
have, lately, gotten into that.
MR. STROUGH-All right. Now, what do they have for time, five minutes?
MR. RINGER-All right. Craig had talked about time frames.
MR. SCHACHNER-I don’t mean to interrupt. I apologize, but can we go back just one step to what
Larry was just saying, so that the Board’s real clear on this. Understand, I’m sorry to interrupt, but I
thought before we leave that topic, understand that we, I think all endorse what Larry just said, and
what Craig, I guess, has talked about, about not getting into the dialogue back and forth, and trying
to answer the questions, and you should rest assured that, even more so than in your typical case with
a public hearing where you already try to do that, here the applicant must prepare a document, which
would be a draft of a Final Environmental Impact Statement, for you to review, and the most
significant or most important part of that Final Environmental Impact Statement will be a Section
called “Responses to Comments”. So the applicant has to provide you with draft responses to all the
substantive and significant comments that are made by any members of the public. So you can sort
of rest assured that, even more so than normal, you know, if somebody comes up with a compelling
comment, and you’re troubled by it, you don’t need to get into a debate about it with the applicant or
with the commentor that night. The applicant will have to provide you all, as the SEQRA Lead
Agency, with a draft response to that comment, in writing, as part of the Final Environmental Impact
Statement, and you will have an opportunity, when you review that Final Environmental Impact
Statement, to decide whether you feel those responses are adequate.
MR. STROUGH-Basically, we can stay quiet, unless we want to, unless we have a question about
clarifying a point that somebody said?
MR. SCHACHNER-You can ask anything you want. I’m not sitting here saying you can’t, but you
could say nothing the whole time, and in fact, many public hearings on Environmental Impact
Statements are just, stated at the outset, are just for the purpose of accepting public comments.
Questions won’t be answered. Dialogue won’t be entertained. Come up. State your comment, and
let the next person come up and state their comment, and somebody at the beginning, I will suggest
that somebody at the beginning of the meeting describe the SEQRA process, and Chris Round and I
have done this in other hearings in the past, somebody describe the SEQRA process so that not only
you all understand that, but the members of the public understand that they’re not going to get their
questions, that their comments will not be addressed that night, that their questions won’t be
answered that night, that the SEQRA process encompasses a formal procedure for addressing these
comments and answering these questions, which is the Final Environmental Impact Statement.
MR. RINGER-I think Craig was planning on making the statement to that effect.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, we need to make sure that the public understands that.
MR. SCHACHNER-I fully agree.
MR. RINGER-The point that we’re trying to make is it just seems recently we’ve been getting into a
lot of discussion with the public and sometimes it doesn’t turn out the way it should.
MR. SCHACHNER-And in something like this, if you do that, it’ll never end.
MR. RINGER-Right, so that not only this meeting, but particularly this meeting, but other meetings,
we should be on our toes a little bit, and the only other thing that seems to be more of my personal
concern, not necessarily Craig’s, is I feel we’re getting into a lot of these sidebars of our own up here,
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and we’ve got people speaking from the floor. We’ve got the applicant, and we’ve got one or two
over here talking back and forth, and I, personally, feel it’s distracting to the applicant or to the
public, whatever speaking, and to our fellow Board members who may be trying to listen and can’t.
So, just for cleaning up our own, and I’d just point it out. Craig had nothing to do with that
comment, that’s a personal comment from me.
MR. SCHACHNER-Although for what it’s worth, I agree with it. It also makes it hard to prepare
minutes because all this stuff’s picked up on the microphones. So it certainly is helpful. If you want
to have discussions among yourselves, it’s perfectly fine, but if you want to do that, I think you
should say to whoever is speaking, hold on one minute, we’re going to confer about something, say
whatever you’re going to say, and then let the applicant, I mean the commentor, speak.
MR. RINGER-It’s just that at this particular meeting, we’re going to be in front of a large body, and
we should certainly, you know, when I was back in business, it was like, be on your best behavior.
We shouldn’t have to be reminded, but sometimes even the best of us, and I’m guilty as sin as
anyone else.
MR. STROUGH-Let’s get back to the order, the SEQRA order. So this is basically for public input,
and then the applicant, the draft applicant, has to respond to the comments. Then what’s next? I
mean, you went that far, I didn’t hear it.
MR. SCHACHNER-And let’s just make sure we’re being clear. When we say, then the applicant has
to respond to the comments, not verbally, and not that night.
MR. STROUGH-No, no, at a later time.
MR. SCHACHNER-All right. So the applicant prepares a written document, which is a Final
Environmental Impact Statement. The Final Environmental Impact Statement is presented to this
Board, as the SEQRA Lead Agency. Just as you did for the Draft Environmental Impact Statement,
you have to decide whether you’re willing to accept the Final Environmental Impact Statement as
responsive to all the significant and substantive comments that were raised on the Draft
Environmental Impact Statement. Once you, if not, and it may be that they’re not. You may feel
that certain areas that were commented on were not given enough treatment or adequate treatment,
in the Final Environmental Impact Statement, and if so, you need to tell the applicant that. Okay,
applicant, we think you need to add more information in response to comments, you know, five,
eleven, whatever, or the comments by Mrs. Smith, Mr. Jones, and whomever. The applicant has to
do that, because you’re the SEQRA Lead Agency, and eventually the applicant produces a document
that you’re comfortable with, that you think addresses all the comments that were made at the Draft
Environmental Impact Statement, and recognize that that’s the verbal comments made Tuesday
night at the public hearing, but it’s also the written comments that are submitted between now and I
think it’s September 12 is when it closes, but whenever it closes.
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MR. STROUGH-Written comments don’t have to be read Tuesday night, though?
MR. SCHACHNER-Absolutely not. They don’t have to be and shouldn’t be.
MR. STROUGH-At any time will they have to be read publicly?
MR. SCHACHNER-No. They never have to be read publicly, and again, recognize that they’re
going to be coming in past Tuesday night, because I think the public comment period ends, is open
until something like September 12. So the applicant has to respond to all the substantive and
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significant comments both the verbal ones and the written ones, in this Final Environmental Impact
Statement. Eventually, sooner or later, you’ll have a document that you’re comfortable accepting as
complete. It doesn’t mean you necessarily agree with everything in it, but you feel that it is complete,
it is responsive and addresses all the issues that were raised, the substantive and significant issues that
were raised during the public comment process, both verbal and written. You then accept the Final
Environmental Impact Statement. Then it comes the time, shortly thereafter, for you to decide
whether the project, do we have an application before us? We must have some kind of application
before us, right?
MR. RINGER-Mark, can we adjourn our meeting and go into a Workshop Session so we don’t have
to have all this, not that, there’s no reason to be on tape, but why put all this on tape if we don’t have
to?
MR. SCHACHNER-Are you talking about what we’re doing right this second?
MR. RINGER-What we’re doing right this minute. We’re on tape now, and why don’t we just
adjourn and then go into a little Workshop Session?
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MR. SCHACHNER-That’s fine. It’s still a public meeting, but there’s nobody here.
MR. RINGER-So let’s make a motion to adjourn.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Larry Ringer, Vice Chairman/Acting Chairman
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