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1.2 s� 1.2 SETPHNAMSanders-Leach System to Weil—1-13-20 RESOLUTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING ON SEWAGE DISPOSAL VARIANCE APPLICATION OF KATHY SANDERS RESOLUTION NO.: 92020 INTRODUCED BY: WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board serves as the Town's Local Board of Health and is authorized by Town Code Chapter 136 to issue variances from the Town's On-Site Sewage Disposal Ordinance,and WHEREAS, Kathy Sanders (Applicant) has applied to the Local Board of Health for a variance from Chapter 136 to install a leaching system 85' from the well in lieu of the required 100' setback on property located at 119 Birdsall Road in the Town of Queensbury, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town of Queensbury's Local Board of Health will hold a public hearing on Monday, January 27th, 2020 at 7:00 p.m. at the Queensbury Activities Center, 742 Bay Road, Queensbury, to consider Kathy Sanders' sewage disposal variance application concerning property located at 119 Birdsall Road, Queensbury (Tax Map No.: 289.17-1-42)and at that time all interested persons will be heard, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the Local Board of Health authorizes and directs the Queensbury Town r Clerk to publish the Notice of Public Hearing presented at this meeting and send a copy of the Notice to neighbors located within 500' of the applicant's property as required by law. Duly adopted this 13`"day of January, 2020, by the following vote: AYES NOES ABSENT: SEWEManders—Leach to Well—1-27-20 NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING IN ACCORDANCE WITH TOWN OF QUEENSBURY ON-SITE SEWAGE DISPOSAL ORDINANCE CHAPTER 136, NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY LOCAL BOARD OF HEALTH WILL CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING ON MONDAY, JANUARY 27TH, 2020 AT 7:00 P.M. AT THE QUEENSBURY ACTIVITIES CENTER, 742 BAY ROAD, QUEENSBURY TO CONSIDER AN APPLICATION BY KATHY SANDERS FOR A SEWAGE DISPOSAL VARIANCE TO INSTALL A LEACHING SYSTEM 85' FROM THE WELL IN LIEU OF THE REQUIRED 100' SETBACK ON PROPERTY LOCATED AT 119 BIRDSALL ROAD IN THE TOWN OF QUEENSBURY, (TAX MAP NO.: 289.17-1-42). AT THIS PUBLIC HEARING ALL INTERESTED PERSONS WILL BE HEARD. PUBLICATION DATE: JANUARY_,2020 CAROLINE H. BARBER TOWN CLERK TOWN OF QUEENSBURY Office Use On SEPTIC VARIANCE Permit#: APPLICATION Permit Fee: 742 Bay Road,Queensbury,NY 12804 Invoice P:510-761-8256 Submittal: K(one)original &&8 copies o0 the completed application package PropertyDxvner(s): Kathy Sanders Owner's Agent:Clark R.Wilkinson. P.E. ( Address:6629Pe)honnsTerrace Address:The Environmental Design Partnership, LLC Centreville,VA yOD Route l46,Clifton Park, NY12O65 Phone#: (788)78y'3871 Phone#: /518\]83'8326 Site Address: 119 Birdsall Road Tax(D#: 209.17'1-43 Directions to Site: From Round Pond Road, North on Birdsall Road approx. Y2mile on left. Distance from well on property to septic system (if applicable)_85_feet(Existing is 65'+/-) Is it possible to install o conforming septic system on this property? [] Yes FRI No If YES, please explain and attach a diagram: Click ortap here to enter text, Does the proposed system meet setback requirements for distance from wells&septic systems on neighboring properties? FX-I Yes [] No if NO, please explain: Click or tap here tn enter text. Is the proposed system to be installed under parking area? [] Yes NX No Section of the Sanitary Sewage Ordinance from which you are seeking the variance (i.e. leaching system will be 89 ft. from well in lieu of required 18Uftj: Leaching system will beQ5'frono Well in lieu of required 1O0' sl Septic variance Application Revised February 2019 List the names, parcel addresses, and tax map numbers of all adjoining property owners. You may obtain tax map numbers from the Assessor's Office as well as the names and addresses: North Name Glen Lake Address Click or tap here to enter text. Tax Map ID Click or tap here to enter text. South Name John Moosbrugger Address 130 Birdsall Road, Queensbury, NY 12804 Tax Map ID 289.17-1-50 East Name John Cembrook Address 31 Tower Mountain Drive, Bernardsville, NJ 07924 Tax Map ID 289.17-1-43 !Nest Name Tara Cracco Address 2065 Hendricks Ave., Bellmore, NY 11710 Tax Map ID 289,17-1-41 OWNER STATEMENT I/We do hereby relieve the Town of Queensbury from any liabilities on the plumbing and septic system located at: 119 Birdsall Road I/We realize that putting the well,septic tank or leaching systemless than the required 100 feet from the Well may increase the risk of pollution. Owner—Print Name: Kathy Sanders Date: January 7, 2020 Owner—Signature: �\_: ,� _ i --t14,'• i,\ 1 Date:,J.;, , l NEIGHBOR OR TENANT RELEASE STATEMENT (if applicable) NOT APPLICABLE I/We do hereby relieve the Town of Queensbury from any liabilities on the plumbing and septic system located at: Click or tap here to enter text. I/We realize that putting the septic tank or leaching system less than the required_feet from the Click or tap here to enter text. may increase the risk of pollution. Neighbor/Tenant—Print Name: Date: Neighbor/Tenant-Signature: Date: Revised February 2019 Septic Variance Application PLEASE ATTACH THE FOLLOWING TO YOUR APPLICATION: 1. A location map showing the site within the Town of Queensbury 2. A plot plan showing existing and proposed features of the property, including: a. Lot dimensions b. North arrow and scale: 1 inch=40 feet c. Location & dimensions of existing and proposed buildings,showing setback distances and uses d. Parking layout to scale (if applicable) e. Physical features (street, steep slopes, lakes, wetlands, etc.) f. Location of all wells and septic systems on neighboring properties g. Adjacent ownerships h. All properties within 500 feet A sample plot plan and location are shown below: !may 4 1?�!1 �"'_'�, I ii• sfi.c) 'i ._..: � �,' �" {'�: F.7. � � �mtMI4pt�.Tss1mLtitsea LO. i3�lYRiRi141f. ice,� � !� �' Ig�'A i r i 14 Septic Variance Application Revised February 2019 AUTHORIZATION AND SIGNATURE PAGE This page includes the Authorization to Act as Agent form, engineering fee disclosure, authorization for site visits, other permit responsibilities and agreement to provide documentation required. Complete the following if the OWNER is using an Agent: Owner's Name: Kathy Sanders Designates: Clark Wilkinson of The Environmental Design Partnership, LLC as agent regarding the Septic Variance for Tax Map#: 289.17-1-42 OWNER'S SIGNATURE: i ,._, L :I.t- y DATE: Engineering Fee Disclosure: Applications may be referred to the Town consulting engineer for review of septic design, storm drainage, etc. as determined by the Town Board of Health. Fees for engineering review services will be charged directly to the applicant. Authorization for Site Visits: By signing this page and submitting the application materials attached herein,the Owner,Applicant and his/her/their agent hereby authorize the Town Board of Health, building and code Enforcement Officers and Town Engineer to enter the subject properties for the purpose of reviewing the application submitted. Please Note: Other permits may be required for construction or alteration activity subsequent to approval by the Town Board of Health. It is the applicant's responsibility to obtain any additional permits. Official Meeting Minutes Disclosure: It is the practice of the Town Board of Health to have a designated stenographer tape record the proceedings of the meetings resulting from the application, and that the minutes transcribed from those tapes constitute the official record of all proceedings. If there is a discrepancy between such record and the handwritten minutes taken by the designated stenographer, the handwritten minutes shall be deemed the official record. 1, the undersigned, have thoroughly read and understand the instructions for submission; agree to the submission requirements and completed checklist: OWNER—PRINT NAME: Kathy,Sanders t OWNER—SIGNATURE: DATE: January?, 2020 l AGENT—PRINT NAME: Clark in AGENT—SIGNATURE: DATE: January 7, 2020 Septic Variance Application Revised February 2019 r r� M, <k SOIL DATA: SURVEY NOTES w „ ' ; ' �� • " _ '• .•. THE FOLLOWING TEST PITS WERE PERFORMED ON BOUNDARY AND SURVEY INFORMATION PROVIDED BY IN � ♦ , ♦ .; �'a ,: �� NOVEMBER 22, 2019 AND WERE OBSERVED BY ELECTRONIC FORMAT FROM DARRAH LAND SURVEYING, PLLC 41 � ♦ ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN PARTNERSHIP LLP: FROM A FIELD SURVEY CONDUCTED ON FEBRUARY 7, 2019. - - ♦ LAYER NAMES & LINE COLORS WERE MODIFIED FOR PLOTTING PURPOSES ONLY.AVY ;� .. EXISTING SEP17C ". O" — 51, ORGANIC MA TER/AL TOPSOIL l=\ 6" — 60" BROWN MEDIUM—COARSE SAND WITH GRAVEL . � EXISTING SEPTIC SYSTEM IS A 1,000 GALLON TANK WITH AND MEDIUM—LARGE ROCKS 60" — 72" DARK BROWN MEDIUM—COARSE GRAVELY EFFLUENT FLOWING BY GRAVITY TO A SEEPAGE PIT. ; ipp SAND WITH MEDIUM—LARGE ROCKS £ ....... -- O SEASONAL HIGH GROUNDWATER OBSERVED .I 1 GLEN TP2 } i sa O" — 6' ORGANIC MATERIALI TOPSOIL J / 6" — 60" BROWN MEDIUM—COARSE SAND WITH GRAVEL, .� BONEY WITH LARGE—MEDIUM ROCKS �,KE SITENO SEASONAL HIGH GROUNDWATER OBSERVED ; h� € PERFORMED ON - � ! T FOLLOWING PERCOLATION TEST R HE RCOLATIO S WERE PE F „1 � � NOVEMBER 22, 2019 AND WERE OBSERVED BY ; N ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN PARTNERSHIP, LLP: r N SITE ;. SLOWEST SOIL PERCOLATION RATE=4.25 MIN./INCH 3 r' 0� .................... 13� oi >- a " PT�2 li ` k SLOWEST SOIL PERCOLATION RATE=2.33 MIN./INCH O Z tl co W a Q �. ", L I LU 21 . ..` �� a � i ASPHALT DRIVE ,000 //ly W i o.. i 5 500ft ID g$ €'S xx BOUNDARY z UJ T ` � a LANDS N/F OF JOHN AND PAMELA CEMBROOK SITE LOCATION MAP BOOAT PAGE 235EDS WALKWAY TO BE REMOVEDK 4792 OF �' SITE VICINITY MAP W SCALE: 1 " = 2,000' ,20"E SCALE: 1 " = 500' WELL E NEIGHBORING /' 559.33 O aw N37'S0'40"E ! I i IRF 1 1 • ■ 16.00' i■� HOUSE RETAINING WALL p z EXISTING SEPTIC w U) < } DECK UNKNOWN __---- co o w oZ W �- � WZ EXISTING WELL IRF I Li N e w Q 0 O WWI LL R LL_ C) z � mow O W Q Z 3 CA O W , �� GARAGE Z 7- m o n 4 . HE AL 20 � E 53 05 z o 1 0 • oa �^Ya4 m 2 m 0) p Q _La 0 DRAWN BY NLZ W :++ APPROX. EXISTING CHECK BY CRW s• OALK SEPTIC TO BE EDP PROJECT NUMBER 12278 1 REPLACED 1 fAVDER 11L OAEC7 Si/PDPNSO4 OF A COMWARAtYE — /PF — ; ; scAPE�RCMiecr FOR µARcra7ECT ORf YEYOR FOR A SLWVEYVR, /S A WCU�171OV OF fl#NEW d PAVEMENT \ STATE EDUCA110N uw AANSM R8CUU7IOIVs AND is to ASPHALT PA A�V A• wsvEMANOR. c REVISION DATE BY c(-v Q o I �j 3 3 0 O o(U SHED 5 p5 FF— _ `�' 500.86 12 W O —�— RR TIES APPLE TREE BOUL 0 I SE C 1 R CD FF= I 499.34 W n AREA = �` I I s 1.02 , /\�-- /\�--��45f ACRES /l N I s�tl 2 STORY ` , Q 1:41 WOOD FRAME V l CK HOUSE FF HEDGEry v J 1.02 ^, EXIS77NG DOCK % •V q It CLARK R. WILKINSON all Hr= TP#2 TP 1 Q P.E. 080299 u I BLDG S7EPS I 514.0 4 tiT z CD I v P i I l � t 6 +� 1J � _ � Q N43 07 20 IPF 250.00' lPF - IPF Lol RETAINING WALL OHUL `"'e_.-. '� j EXISTING DECK TO BE SCALE: L o, REMOVED AND REPLACED 11_ 01 cs a EXISTING f 1,250 SF HOUSE FOOTPRINT TO REMAIN. SECOND FLOOR TO BE PLANTER TO BE REMOVED 0 ADDED SHED TO BE REMOVED NOTFOR cz ® O O /—���— ��\ �� CONSTRUCTION Lei 5 BUILDING APPROX. CATION OF 1 SHEET TITLE: EXISTING 1,4EIGHBORING SEPTIC o a EXISTING NEIGHBORING ,!� -- CONDITIONS N WELL GRAPHIC SCALE LANDS N/F OF APPROX. EXISTING CRACCO AND GUERRA SEPTIC LOCATION SHEET: .. BOOK 5199 OF DEEDS AS REPORTED BY v� AT PAGE 24 ADJACENT OWNER /v 10 e 6 4 2 0 10 20 40 w w 1 (IN FEET) o i 1 INCH = 10 FT. Z w a a 3 PROJECT DESCRIPTION: c.o FINISHED GRADE FINISHED GRADE / � THE PROPOSED PROJECT INVOLVES THE INSTALLATION OF A NEW TOP solL WASTEWATER SYSTEM SERVING THE FOUR-BEDROOM SANDERS RESIDENCE. sulrAeLE BACKFILL THE EXISTING SYSTEM WILL BE REPLACED WITH A 1,250 GALLON SEPTIC Z NOTES: 4" DIA PERFORATED PIPE COBBLES, ROCKS TO BE REMOVED) TANK. EFFLUENT WITH FLOW BY GRAVITY FROM THE SEPTIC TANK TO A DISTRIBUTION BOX WHERE FLOWS WILL ENTIRE THE PROPOSED ELJEN °! Iz•-I9• x 1. PIPE JOINTS TO BE SEALED WITH ASPHALTIC MATERIALS OR HOLES 5 & 7 O'CLOCK a ABSORPTION TRENCH SYSTEM. `� REMOVABLE COVER GEO-TEXTILE COVER ¢ ., = EQUIVALENT. THE PROJECT WILL ALSO FEATURE AN ADDITION TO THE SECOND FLOOR OF BANDING STRIPS THE DWELLING, AND PROPOSED PORCHES/DECKS AS SHOWN. PROPOSED O a 2. INVERT ELEVATIONS OF ALL OUTLET PIPES MUST BE EQUAL. LLJ ( , IMPERVIOUS AREA IS ON THE ORDER OF 383 SF AND DISTURBANCES ARE a TO REMAIN BELOW 5,000 SF. THEREFORE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT IS 3. THE SLOPE OF TEE OUTLET PIPES BETWEEN THE DISTRIBUTION BOX N BAFFLE AND THE DISTRIBUTOR LATERALS SHOULD BE 1/8" PER FOOT. ELJEN GSF UNIT 7' ''Z INVERT ELEV. 4. CONTRACTOR TO USE SPEED LEVELERS AS SUPPLIED BY FORT VARIANCE REQUEST. CONCRETE SAND MILLER TO EQUALIZE FLOW. 0 6' MIN. -.�.......,. THE PROPOSED PROJECT INVOLVING THE CONSTRUCTION OF A REPLACEMENT ~` WASTEWATER SYSTEM FOR THE RESIDENCE AT 119 BIRDSALL RD. WILL REQUIRE INLET MIN. VARIANCES FROM CERTAIN SETBACK STANDARDS. BASED ON THE PROPOSED 2" 4,_0' LOCATION OF THE SYSTEMS ABSORPTION FIELD THE FOLLOWING ONE VARIANCE O O IS REQUESTED: OUP 36' 6' MIN, 2' MIN N Q V-1: ABSORPTION FIELD SETBACK TO WELL -85' REQUESTED VS. THE 100' "t N REQUIRED 2' TO IMPERVIOUS STRATA, BEDROCK, OR •� I r O WASTEWATER SYSTEM - BASIS OF DESIGN d d SEASONAL HIGH GROUNDWATER —� ' I N co REGULATORY AUTHORITY.• TOWN OF QUEENSBURY Z 1-1/2" r CLEAN SAND OR PEA GRAVEL O) } DESIGN STANDARDS: NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH N L00 (IONYCRR APPENDIX 75-A), WASTEWATER TREATMENT STANDARDS - 2 ELJEN GSF CROSS SECTION w N Q INDIVIDUAL HOUSEHOLD SYSTEM. 2 NOT TO SCALE W TOWN OF QUEENSBURY ORDINANCE - CHAPTER 136: SEWERS AND r Q 3 SEWAGE DISPOSAL - PART 1, ON-SITE SEWAGE DISPOSAL SYSTEMS 0 - Z / V 7 L PROJECT DESCRIPTION: THE PROPOSED WASTEWATER SYSTEM TO 1 DISTRIBUTION BOX � ' � � < Q a SERVE THE FOUR (4) BEDROOM RESIDENCE SHALL CONSIST OF A � lRF C SEPTIC TANK - GRAVITY DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM TO AN ELJEN 2 NOT TO SCALE I O VJ z V/n c ABSORPTION TRENCH DESIGN. HOUSE PROJECTED FLOWRATE: BASED ON A FOUR (4) BEDROOM COUNT >- AND NYS DOH STANDARDS FOR POST 1991 WATER SAVING FIXTURES Z Lu = 0 110 GALLONS PER DAY PER BEDROOM, THE AVERAGE DAILY FLOW O (ADF) IS 440 GALLONS. SHOULD HOUSEHOLD FIXTURES NOT BE OF DECK ----- / \ W THE 'LOW FLOW' TYPE MANUFACTURED SINCE 1991 THEN THE __ ____------- - Q FIXTURES SHALL BE REPLACED AS NEEDED. THIS FLOWRATE DOES - NOT INCLUDE THE USE OF A GARBAGE GRINDER (NOR IS ONE �� I RECOMMENDED) OR A HOT TUB/SPA. ADDITIONAL FLOWRATE MUST BE INCLUDED IN THE DESIGN SHOULD EITHER OF THESE \ > cl) COMPONENTS BE PART OF THE HOUSE DESIGN. ` \ O SEPTIC TANK: A 1,250 GALLON SEPTIC TANK IS PROPOSED FOR O THE FOUR (4) BEDROOM DWELLING.. IRF w ABSORPTION FIELD SYSTEM: THE ABSORPTION SYSTEM IS DESIGNED \ Dw �_ ^ AS A 64 LF ELJEN TRENCH CONFIGURATION DISPERSAL SYSTEM WITH O 3 CAR LLIt ' THREE (3) LATERALS AT 24 LF (6 MODULES) EACH, 64 LF TOTAL ARAG AND 18 TOTAL ELJEN MODULES \ G WASTEWATER ABSORPTION FIELD DESIGN CALCULATIONS HEAL K � Z TREE THE PROPOSED ABSORPTION FIELD WAS DESIGNED IN W0 �- ACCORDANCE WITH NYSDOH APPENDIX 75A AS FOLLOWS DESIGN PERCOLATION RATE = 1-5 MIN/IN \•/ TOTAL BEDROOM COUNT = 4 SHED U) —I m DESIGN FLOW = 110/GAL/DAY/BR \ (n } = 110 X 4 = 440 GAL/DAY LU In ELJEN APPLICATION RATE = 1.2 GAL/DAY/SF REQUIRED ELJEN TRENCH LENGTH = 64 LF = 16 EA I ' ' 10� W Z MODULES IPF � 1 W Q Q _J :) PROPOSED ELJEN TRENCH LENGTH = 64 LF = 18 EA 0 ASPHALT AVEMEN7 rn� \y v/ LL. � � � ° z w o 'L z PROPOSED DECK/ O \ $. 0- z ° O mowN/ SHED \ \\ PORCH O ° m co 0 O ASPHALT DRIVE 1 \\O \\O \ DRAWN BY NLZ CHECK BY CRW 1 \O\ \ \ \ LANDSCAPE TO BE CONSTRUCTED / / / / / / / / EDP PROJECT NUMBER 12278 1 00\\O \ \ O I BASED ON LANDSCAPE DESIGN V /'"/ / /' / / /'• / E ALTERAAON OF THESE DOCUMENTS/N ANY WAY, UNLESS FROM REBUILD DESIGN LANDSCAPE / )ONE UNDER THE DIRECT SUPERNSTON OF A COMPARABLE E ROFESSIONAL, (I.E.) ENGINEER FOR AN ENGINEER, 0_ 1 ECK \O I ARCHITECTURE / / / / / / / / / NDSCAPE ARCHI7ECT FOR A LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT OR O' URVEYOR FOR A SURVEYOR, IS A V70"RGN OF THE NEW FF= O PROPOSED ADDITION \ (� / /' / / /` / / /'',/ PROPOSED ELJEN V K STATE EDUCA77ON LAW AND/OR REGULA7701VS AND IS � 5)1.02 A CLASS A' MISDEMEANOR. 4" PVC SDR-35 / / / / / / / / ABSORPTION TRENCH SYSTEM. o EXISTING DOCK I \ EFFLUENT SEWER ® / / / / 3 EA LATERALS ® 24 LF REVISION DATE BY I (2ND FLOOR) p r._ / / \\O a oyLC "/FT MIN. SLOPE / / / / / / / // EACH (18 EA MODULES) a 1 BENCHMARK: 0 \\ d STEPS 1 -- — O O — �� / / / ,<, / / /., / RR SPIKE IN NM 7 m a. I �� / ✓ ELEV=498.84 Lj I 10' MIN. z Q / \ a I 7 I I GU pq o ° o IPF IPF CLARK R. WILKINSON _--" IPF RETAINING WALL OH�L P.E. 080299 Z 24" TAPERED HOLE & aJ. PLUG (TYPICAL) IL SHED 1 rLo #1 DISTRIBUTIO FROM N ' 4" PVC SDR-35 N BOX BLDG SEWER ® FT 1 �\ w MIN. SLOPE PROPOSED 1,250 4„ GALLON SEPTIC TANK i r '" O c5 W O O Ir O 1250 GAL. 5'_3° i v BUILDING ' - a o� THE SLOPE OF THE INLET \ m 3" PIPE BETWEEN THE \ 3 RESIDENTIAL UNIT AND THE \ % ui 11" SEPTIC TANK TO BE Y4" PER 4" DIA. PERFORATED N aj 5'-6" SCALE: PVC 1 "=10' ASTM C33 SAND ' 48' 5'-2" 1250 GAL. i 2" 0 DISTRIBUTION BOX —� M 00 4'-6" } NOT FOR a (SEE DETAIL) 4'-0" CONSTRUCTION LIQUID L 11 I—III—I FE1III—I z LEVEL — 4' MIN. -0 =NATIVE SOIL —0 I-I I SHEET TITLE: q —� —� —_ I- HIGH DENSITY POLYETHYLENE o PIPE SEALS PROVIDED AT ALL PIPE SITE PLAN CONNECTIONS SHOWN. J DISTRIBUTION LATERALS SEE 6" Q PLAN FOR ORIENTATION AND QUANTITY *TANK i GRAPHIC SCALE CONCRETE: 4000PSI SIZE WEIGHTS, LBS REINFORCEMENT: ASTM A615-GRADE 60 SHEET: pq ASTM A185-GRADE 65 GALLONS TOP SLAB *BOTTOM TOTAL V7 LENGTH AND MODULE QTY AS PER SYSTEM DESIGN ENRAINED AIR: 5.0%-9.0% w MEETS ASTM C890 1250 2660 8820 11,480 w 10 8 6 4 2 0 10 20 40 *INCLUDES BAFFLE w 2 w 3 TYP I CAL ELJEN TRENCH SYSTEM (IN FEET) 4 1250 GAL SEAMLESS SEPTIC TANK 2 NOT TO SCALE 1 INCH = 10 FT. 2 NOT TO SCALE 3