2008.08.19
(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 19, 2008
INDEX
Site Plan No. 3-2007 Vance Cohen 1.
Tax Map No. 295.8-1-2 (Cont’d Pg. 74)
Site Plan No. 26-2008 Robert & Anne Clark 2.
Tax Map No. 289.13-1-54
Site Plan No. 64-2007 Brian McCall 3.
Tax Map No. 302.8-1-39, 38
Subdivision No. 11-2007 Larry Clute 5.
PRELIMINARY STAGE Tax Map No. 301.20-1-11, 28, 29
Site Plan No. 20-2008 Laforte Construction 20.
Tax Map No. 240.5-1-33
Site Plan No. 27-2008 Tom & Dusty Putnam 36.
Tax Map No. 239.15-1-7
Site Plan No. 52-2007 GRJH, Inc. 47.
MODIFICATION Tax Map No. 309.14-1-6
Site Plan No. 33-2008 Della Auto Group 58.
Tax Map No. 296.20-1-43, 44
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING
MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID
MINUTES.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 19, 2008
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
CHRIS HUNSINGER, CHAIRMAN
THOMAS SEGULJIC
THOMAS FORD
DONALD SIPP
STEPHEN TRAVER
TANYA BRUNO
DONALD KREBS, ALTERNATE
LAND USE PLANNER-KEITH OBORNE
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
MR. HUNSINGER-I’ll call to order the meeting of the Town of Queensbury Planning
Board, Tuesday, August 19, 2008. The first item on the agenda is approval of minutes
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from June 17 and June 24, 2008.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
June 17, 2008
June 24, 2008
MOTION TO APPROVE THE PLANNING BOARD MINUTES FROM JUNE 17 & JUNE
24, 2008, Introduced by Thomas Seguljic who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Donald Sipp:
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Duly adopted this 19 day of August, 2008, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Sipp, Mr. Ford, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Traver, Mr. Krebs, Mrs. Bruno,
Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
ADMINISTRATIVE ITEMS:
SITE PLAN NO. 3-2007 VANCE COHEN
MR. HUNSINGER-The next item on the agenda is Administrative Items. The first one is
Site Plan No. 3-2007 for Vance Cohen, who has requested a one year extension of a
Site Plan that was approved on 8/28/07. Do you know, has the applicant started any
work at all?
MR. OBORNE-No, he has not.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Do you know what his intention is? I mean, we got the hand
written note, but it didn’t provide a lot of information.
MR. OBORNE-Yes. Basically he’s just looking for an extension for his approved Site
Plan up on Route 9. He hasn’t started it yet, and he would like to keep every and all
parameters of that approved Site Plan in place for another year.
MRS. BRUNO-Didn’t he request for both of his places, the one by The Great Escape for
the parking, and the one up in the Outlets to be extended? Isn’t that what I read in his
handwritten note? I can’t find it.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. There were two separate Site Plans.
MR. OBORNE-They’re both on the same property.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MRS. BRUNO-No.
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MR. OBORNE-I’m pretty sure, yes.
MR. KREBS-Well, there’s 1471 State Route 9, and there’s 1159-1161 State Route 9.
MR. OBORNE-Okay.
MR. FORD-In checking, one of the stipulations we had before, as I recall, was some
signage pertaining to the safety of pedestrians, and in checking that sign, or that site, I
don’t recall seeing that signage present.
MR. SIPP-It’s up there, Tom. It’s a handwritten sign that he’s got.
MR. HUNSINGER-A handwritten sign.
MRS. BRUNO-Yes.
MR. SIPP-Right by the little shack there was the hotdog stand. It’s only been there about
a week.
MRS. BRUNO-Yes, I saw it. It’s rough, but it’s there.
MR. FORD-Okay. Well, see, I haven’t checked in the last week. I’ve been checking in
the last year since we granted that.
MR. SIPP-Up until about a week ago it hadn’t been put up. I was going to mention it
myself. It’s there now, but it’s a handwritten sign and it hasn’t stopped too many people
from crossing the road.
MR. FORD-Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Any other discussions, comments? They are clearly two
separate site plans.
MRS. BRUNO-My concern, and I don’t know if we really have the ability or power to do
anything about anything, but since we have reviewed both projects, the one in particular
up in the Outlets has kind of gone in the other direction, and it’s becoming an eyesore. Is
there any sort of stipulations or enforcement that we could kind of get them to? No?
MR. OBORNE-I am under the impression that he’s looking for, in this case, the Site Plan
approval to be extended for another year, and I’m not familiar with the other one. I think
that’s because it’s a building permit. That’s what I read here on the letter.
MRS. BRUNO-The one up in the Outlets, right, for the go karts? And that’s the one I’m
referring to.
MR. OBORNE-That’s a building permit. They want an extension for that, and then also
they want an extension for the Site Plan down by The Great Escape. So, yes, I
misspoke earlier. Absolutely they’re two separate plans, but one deals with a building
permit and the other deals with a Site Plan.
MR. HUNSINGER-Can we postpone that resolution until next week?
MR. OBORNE-Absolutely.
MR. HUNSINGER-That would give the Board a chance to swing by both sites, and also
give Staff the time to get the site plan number for the go kart project on State road.
MR. OBORNE-It will.
MR. HUNSINGER-People okay with that, we’ll deal with this next Tuesday?
MRS. BRUNO-I agree. Yes.
MR. FORD-Thank you.
SITE PLAN NO. 26-2008 ROBERT & ANNE CLARK FOR FURTHER TABLING
CONSIDERATION
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. The next item is a further tabling consideration for Robert and
Anne Clark, Site Plan No. 26-2008. It was tabled to this evening. The public hearing
was held open. Apparently they haven’t provided the requested information. Is that a
fair assumption?
MR. OBORNE-Correct. They didn’t have the time. They have since submitted by the
deadline date and you will see them next month.
MR. HUNSINGER-We will see them next month? Okay.
MR. FORD-Is there anyone who showed up tonight specifically for that, public?
MR. HUNSINGER-Is there anyone here for the Robert and Anne Clark project, Site Plan
No. 26-2008? Okay.
MR. FORD-Thanks for checking, Chris.
MR. HUNSINGER-The public hearing was left open, and we will leave it open.
MR. SEGULJIC-Do we want to table that to a specific date in September?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. We should. I’m pulling the calendar up now. The two dates in
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September are the 16 and the 23.
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MR. KREBS-The 16 is already full, isn’t it?
MRS. BRUNO-They both are.
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MR. TRAVER-It would be the 23.
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MR. OBORNE-23 or October. You’re talking about Clark. Clark was already tabled to
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September 16, per the resolution, I believe.
MRS. BRUNO-8/19. Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, it’s tabled until this evening.
MR. OBORNE-Until this evening?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. KREBS-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-That’s why it’s on the agenda tonight.
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MR. SEGULJIC-Okay. So we’ll table it until the 23, then.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay.
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 26-2008 ROBERT & ANNE CLARK, Introduced
by Thomas Seguljic who moved for its adoption, seconded by Thomas Ford:
Tabled to the Planning Board’s September 23, 2008 meeting.
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Duly adopted this 19 day of August, 2008, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Ford, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Sipp, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Traver, Mrs. Bruno,
Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
SITE PLAN NO. 64-2007 SEQR TYPE II BRIAN MC CALL AGENT(S) ALBERT
MUGRACE OWNER(S) SAME ZONING HC-INTENSIVE LOCATION 274 QUAKER
ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES ADDITION OF TWO WORK BAYS & STORAGE FOR
TIRE WAREHOUSE. AUTO REPAIR AND RETAIL USES IN THE HC ZONE REQUIRE
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE AV 1-08, SV
59-01, SP 44-98 WARREN CO. PLANNING 1/9/08 LOT SIZE 0.58, ACRES 0.09
ACRES TAX MAP NO. 302.8-1-39, 38 SECTION 179-4-020
MR. HUNSINGER-And we did receive a letter this evening requesting that we table it
because he hasn’t addressed the items. Hopefully I’m not the only one that got the
letter.
MR. OBORNE-I have one in the file if you want me to pull it out for you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. A letter dated today from Mr. McCall. It says, “To Mr.
Chairman: I request your consideration to table Site Plan No. 64-2007. I received a
letter from the Planning Board on August 18, 2008, and would like time to address the
concerns listed.” I think what he’s referring to is the letter from the engineer. Is there
anyone here this evening that wanted to address the Board on the Brian McCall
application? Okay. What’s the will of the Board? The applicant’s not here.
MRS. BRUNO-I would much prefer that somebody did what he did, rather than, you
know, go through a partial application.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, I agree. We already heard that the, has anyone spoken to Mr.
McCall? Did he give you any indication when he might be able to address the concerns
from the engineer?
MR. OBORNE-He was under the advisement of his counsel and engineer to table it. He
did not seek a specific tabling date.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Has he submitted any additional information as a result of the
engineering comments?
MR. OBORNE-He has not.
MR. TRAVER-Do we have any information as to when the culvert work is going to be
undertaken?
MR. OBORNE-The Homer Avenue? At this point, it has not been put out to bid. I think
we discussed this previously. There’s still a little bit more work that needs to be done,
and obviously a lot more cooperation before that gets going.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Well, I think the only question is if we table it until September
or until October.
MR. FORD-Let’s do October.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. SEGULJIC-Do we want to hear anything from the public? I think there’s somebody
who’s here to comment on it?
MR. HUNSINGER-Do you have any objections to holding your comments until the
October meeting, or would you like the opportunity to make some comments?
JEFF MEYER
MR. MEYER-Could I submit a letter?
MR. HUNSINGER-You sure can. Yes, you can submit it to Staff and we’ll make sure
that Mr. McCall gets a copy, or did you have copies for everyone?
MR. MEYER-I have copies for everyone.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. SEGULJIC-So what’s the date of the tabling, then?
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MR. HUNSINGER-We didn’t list the date yet. The two meetings in October are the 21
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and the 28. I think my inclination would be to table it to the 21.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 64-2007 BRIAN MC CALL, Introduced by Thomas
Seguljic who moved for its adoption, seconded by Donald Sipp:
Tabled to the Planning Board’s October 21, 2008 meeting.
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Duly adopted this 19 day of August, 2008, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Sipp, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Ford, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Traver, Mrs. Bruno,
Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
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MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. So we will re-hear the project on the 21 of October.
SUBDIVISION NO. 11-2007 PRELIMINARY STAGE SEQR TYPE I LARRY CLUTE
AGENT(S) NACE ENGINEERING OWNER(S) SAME ZONING SR-20 LOCATION
BETWEEN GENEVA DR. & HOWARD ST. APPLICANT PROPOSES SUBDIVISION
OF A 7.81 +/- ACRES INTO 18 RESIDENTIAL LOTS RANGING IN SIZE FROM 0.34 TO
0.54 +/- ACRES. SUBDIVISION OF LAND REQUIRES PLANNING BOARD REVIEW
AND APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE: AV 52-07 WARREN CO. PLANNING N/A
APA/DEC/CEA/NYS DOH NYS DOH LOT SIZE 7.81 +/- ACRES TAX MAP NO.
301.20-1-11, 28, 29 SECTION A-183
JON LAPPER & TOM CENTER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. HUNSINGER-Do you want to summarize Staff Notes, please.
MR. OBORNE-I shall. Application’s Subdivision No. 11-2007. This is Preliminary.
Applicant is Larry Clute. The requested action is Preliminary Stage subdivision review.
The applicant proposes a subdivision of 7.81 acres into 18 residential lots. Planning
Board review and approval required for the subdivision of land. Note, the Planning
Board has acknowledged Lead Agency Status, commenced SEQRA review, and
forwarded their recommendations to the Zoning Board of Appeals. The Zoning Board of
Appeals has approved Area Variance No. 52-07 which addressed density issues. The
applicant is now before the Planning Board for Preliminary subdivision review. The
location is the addition to Geneva Drive. Existing zoning is SR-20, and it’s within a
mobile home overlay district. Type I realty subdivision is the SEQRA status, and there’s
been numerous parcel histories. Again, the project description was above. Staff
comments: The applicant previously submitted a plan for the subdivision of 7.81 acres
into 20 residential lots ranging from 0.29 acres to 0.39 acres. The applicant has
submitted updated plans to represent a decrease in total lots to 18, with lot sizes
referenced above, and those lot sizes referenced, again, are 0.34 acres to 0.56 acres.
The Zoning Board of Appeals has received your recommendation from the Planning
Board on the following: potential traffic impacts, lot size, density in relation to
Comprehensive Plan, positive or negative effects on the development of open space,
and public concerns. I’m going to go ahead and read into the record that the applicant, if
allowed to build, can satisfy their density issues, although that was already approved by
the Zoning Board of Appeals. A little history of Geneva Estates. It was created as a
cluster subdivision in 1993 when the zoning for the subdivision called for one acre lots. It
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was settled that the 10 and final lot of Geneva Estates was to be oversized in order to
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meet the requirements for the proposed cluster subdivision. It is this 10 lot that is to be
subdivided. The spirit of the approval was to keep this lot an open space. The zoning
has changed from one acre to 43,560 square feet per lot down to 20,000 square feet per
lot, and one more note is in relation to the Town’s 2007 Comprehensive Plan, the
recommendations for the moderate density residential planning areas should be
considered. Particular attention should be paid to the conservation subdivision
recommendations and lot density recommendations. See attached.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MR. LAPPER-Good evening. For the record, Jon Lapper with Larry Clute and Tom
Center. When we were here last month, we had a very full discussion with the Board
and on that basis you did the SEQRA review and granted a Neg Dec and we went to the
Zoning Board the next night, and as Keith said, we were granted the variance for the
smaller lots, which was essentially to match what’s in the neighborhood already. So
we’re here for Preliminary and when we were here last time with this Board you asked us
to include a 10 foot no cut buffer on the back by Queen Victoria’s Grant. That didn’t
make it on to the Preliminary submission, but we’ve now made the Final submission, and
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
that is pending, hopefully, for next month, and that is included in the final subdivision
plan. So we did what the Board asked in that respect, and I think we really went through
most of the issues last time. I want to just ask Tom to talk about his discussions today
with the Town Engineer, just a few issues that are left.
MR. CENTER-The same engineering comments that we had the last time we were up in
front we addressed those with the Town Engineer. I was trying to get with him before we
got the submission. I ended up submitting it on Friday. I met with him this afternoon to
go over all the comments. He was going to try to get in touch with Staff. I don’t know if
he was able to get in touch with the office, but we did come to agreement on the, I
believe it was four items that he had, five, six, seven, and eight, which were the same
ones that we discussed at the last meeting. Number Five was additional site testing.
What we’ve done is added to Drawing S-7 is a note basically stating that, prior to
construction of each septic system, perc tests shall be performed by the engineer in the
area of the septic system, to confirm that we have the adequate percolation rate, whether
it’s a minute, minute and five, or under a minute. We’ve also added to S-7 modified soil
systems, in case we do have a perc rate that’s less than a minute. We’re going to be
moving some material in order to construct a road and some of these lots, so we wanted
to make sure that we have the adequate perc rate on the site, prior to construction of the
system. The second question was in regards to the pre-treatment for the drywells for the
road. We discussed that. Again, the Town of Queensbury has an understanding with
New York State DEC to allow for direct entry with the drywells for the stormwater and the
wing swale, that as long as they maintain them on an annual basis, it’s similar to
everything we’ve submitted previously with the stormwater systems in the Town, in the
roadways. Number Seven was in regards to infiltration of the side slopes on the
drywells, which we discussed last meeting, and our calculations as stated in here. Our
calculations, we neglect the bottom of the drywell in the calculations to account for
siltation over time, and the last item was a maintenance procedures for the permanent
stormwater structures, which we added a note to the stormwater management report
basically stating that they’re going to be maintained by the Town Highway Department
under their agreement, or understanding with New York State DEC for the drywell
maintenance on an annual basis. So those were the four issues. We went over those
with Dan. We believe we’ll have a signoff. There was nothing additional that he asked
for at this time. I believe prior to final we’ll have that signoff with him.
MR. HUNSINGER-Anything else?
MR. CENTER-Also as John stated, we’ve added, on the final drawings, we’ve added that
10 foot no cut along the property line between Geneva and Queen Victoria’s Grant.
MR. FORD-Could we just ask for a bit of clarification on the engineer, who’s going to do
it, who’s going to observe it relative to the test pits for the septic systems?
MR. CENTER-The percolation tests?
MR. FORD-Percolation.
MR. CENTER-I would assume Larry, it would have to be an engineer. He’s used us in
the past, probably continue to be us to go out and perform the percolation tests, and the
drawing does state it has to be performed by an engineer.
MR. HUNSINGER-And then the results are provided to the Building Department prior to
the issuance of a building permit?
MR. CENTER-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. I mean, that’s pretty standard procedure anyway, isn’t it?
MR. CENTER-Very much so.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. CENTER-Similar to a replacement system. In these instances, like we said, we
have, you know, soil that can be fast. We did the perc tests out there when we did the
test pits, and we had, you know, with enough water and performing the tests, we did pre-
soak them and get them to a minute, but there’s potential across the site that you may
have more well drained soil, because some areas have topsoil that’s been removed,
things like that, so we want to account for, and plus there’s some areas that are going to
be filled in, due to the construction of the road, so we want to make sure that we have the
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
actual in place perc rate for the system, and the systems move, you know, when
somebody puts a house, they move slightly around the site. This will be where the
system is going to go. It will give us a more accurate perc rate.
MR. FORD-Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Questions, comments from the Board?
MR. SEGULJIC-Not to repeat myself or what the Board has just asked you, but, so what
happen was, you only did perc tests on a certain number of the sites, correct?
MR. CENTER-We did perc tests, with the Department of Health test pits, we did perc
tests next to all those test pits to determine the perc rate with the test pits.
MR. SEGULJIC-How many were there?
MR. CENTER-I believe there were six or seven.
MR. SEGULJIC-So out of twenty lots, you only did it on six lots. I’m just trying to get a
handle on it.
MR. CENTER-Which is a cross section.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay.
MR. CENTER-Within the test pits, if we see a change in soil, then we do additional test
pits. It’s kind of a set up as a grid or a cross section of the site.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay. So then once they go to get the building permit, so they get the
subdivision, when they go get the building permit is when you do the perc test to verify
it’s a developable lot.
MR. LAPPER-Well, the soils may have to be modified.
MR. CENTER-The soils may have to be modified. It’s not like it’s not going to be a slow
soil where the septic system would be too large for the site. What the case is with a
faster soil is whether or not you have to modify it or not, to slow the soil down. Because
this is an old sandpit, people have, they’ve taken some material out, depending on where
a house goes relative to the lot, where the septic system is going to be, and the end
result, we felt safer to, and I think Dan agreed, to actually perform the perc test at each
one. I mean, we did get over all the test pits and perc tests, all of the perc tests came out
at or above one minute, but like I said, we’re going to be moving some soil in the
process, and we want to make sure that when we get to the final grading of the site, that
we do a perc test and confirm.
MR. SEGULJIC-Because you have to have at least one minute, right?
MR. CENTER-Yes.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay, and you have one at one minute and two seconds.
MR. CENTER-Yes.
MR. SEGULJIC-So if it’s less than one minute, then you have to modify the soil?
MR. CENTER-Then you have to modify the soil, yes.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay. I just want to make sure I understand all this.
MR. CENTER-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Any other questions or comments from the Board? Is there anyone in
the audience that wanted to address the Board on this project? Okay. We do have a
couple of people. I don’t know if you were before the Board before, but the purpose of
the public hearing is for the public to provide comments to the Board. You should
address your comments to the Board. If you have specific questions, feel free to address
them to the Board, and if it’s a question of the applicant, we will go ahead and ask the
question for you. We do try to limit public comments to three minutes, and before you
begin your comments, if you could state your name for the record. We do tape the
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meetings and prepare literal minutes of all of the proceedings. So, ma’am, would you
like to be first?
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
ELAINE MURPHY
MRS. MURPHY-Sure. My name is Elaine Murphy. I live at Queen Victoria’s Grant, at
Number 16 Queen Anne Court. I am directly behind this housing development. My
problem is, there is not much buffer between my yard and where the housing is going to
go. I do have problems now with a little hill back there of water running down and
coming down to the front yard and not draining well. My concern is, as he just explained,
the septic systems, and it’s not very good for me because I have the smallest buffer zone
because I’m on the curve of (lost words), and that’s one of them. When I bought this
property, in ’89, I was assured by the Elmore family that this was going to be forever
green. This is why I chose this piece of property. How did it go from ever green to this?
Can anybody tell me?
MR. FORD-Who told you it was going to be ever green, who did?
MRS. MURPHY-The Elmore family who owned this property before Mr. Clute did.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, the immediate property adjacent to your lot is part of the
homeowners association, it is forever green.
MRS. MURPHY-It’s common ground behind me, but I have very little common ground,
as I explained, because I am on the curve of the road, and everything sets back due to
that curve. I am not very far from the backyard of these houses that are proposed to go
there, and as I said, I bought the property because of that little piece of woody property
there, and we’ve had a lot of difficulty with people coming through. It took me three
years to put a lawn in because the people in back had made a path through, and every
time I got one started they would just come through with their snowmobiles, their ATV’s,
whatever, which they are still doing. They do, have settled down a little bit now because
there’s foliage, but the foliage will soon be gone and they’ll be back again. In fact, the
other night there was somebody wandering around the back yard that comes from this
development farther up or from Howard Street or one of those streets up there and
comes through. I do live alone. I’m a widow, and I live alone, and I’ve asked them very
nicely not to come, and I have got some very disturbing language from them saying that I
did not own the property and I couldn’t say anything. My concern is, what’s it going to be
when we get 18 more families in there with ATV’s and snowmobiles and cutting through?
What is going to happen to my privacy? I really feel that Mr. Clute should take into
consideration either putting a fence or some type of barrier between the common ground
property and his property to the backyards of these houses that will make for better
neighbors for both of us.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MRS. BRUNO-When did you say that you had bought your property?
MRS. MURPHY-’89.
MRS. BRUNO-Okay.
MR. KREBS-Keith, was that when the Town owned the property when it was deeded to
the Town for the purpose of, to the land?
MR. OBORNE-For a pocket park or?
MR. KREBS-You said in the Staff Notes that the remaining acreage was at first to be
deeded over to the Town of Queensbury?
MR. OBORNE-That is correct.
MR. KREBS-Was that about 1989 that that?
MR. OBORNE-I think it was, Larry, it was prior to that, wasn’t it?
LARRY CLUTE
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MR. CLUTE-It was prior to 1989.
MR. OBORNE-Yes, and the Town rejected that.
MRS. MURPHY-Yes, the Elmores were still there when I bought the property because
we had problems at that time, and we finally came to an agreement that the children and
the other people that were riding the ATV’s, but unfortunately that people that are going
in there now are related to Mr. Clute and when we say anything we get the snotty
remark, this is my father’s property and we have permission to be here. You can’t say
anything about it, but if you want ATV’s, I’d prefer would you ride them some place else
besides my back yard. We do not like the noise. I have a nice screened in porch, which
was an added expense to put on which was my little haven until all the ATV’s, and as I
said, they’re riding on common ground that belongs to Queen Victoria’s Grant. There
should be some type of barrier between them and our property, the common ground, to
kind of put a separation there. Right now we hear all the parties that are going on, and
it’s the sandpit. We hear all the parties, and then we go out and we pick up the beer
cans and all the trash that’s thrown over to us. To get 18 more families in there, how
much more trash are we going to pick up and then we’re going to add their garden
clippings and whatever else is handy to just throw over. I don’t feel a 10 foot barrier is
going to be a great big help to me.
MR. HUNSINGER-Is it clear where the property lines are between the homeowners
association and Mr. Clute’s property?
MRS. MURPHY-I believe it is. I believe the President of the Association is here. He
could probably tell you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Do you know if the land is posted?
MRS. MURPHY-I have posted it several times, and it’s torn down. The signs are torn
down as fast as you can put them up.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MRS. MURPHY-At one point last summer, I have a birdfeeder in the middle of my back
yard, the ATV’s come down and go around the birdfeeder and go back up. I thought,
well, the first one got off the track up on the common ground. Then the other one came
down, and consequently the Deputy Sheriff was sitting there then, and he got a hold of
the kid, but unfortunately our president at that time would not press charges, but this is
my biggest concern, together with the septic systems that are going to be put in there,
that do not drain down directly to me, because I have very little property in between
there.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Any questions? Okay. Thank you, ma’am.
MRS. MURPHY-I might add, in this little patch of woods, there is wildlife. We have some
foxes which are not very welcome right now because they’re after the cats, but there are
deer. We’ve seen many, and there are a lot of wildflowers in there. This is why the path
was built around, so that you could take your children or yourself for a nice walk around
there and there were little places where the kids could take and swing around on the
monkey bar type things that were wooden in there, and to learn about the wildflowers,
and it was nice and peaceful, but I’m afraid my peace has been interrupted, but I really
would like to see Mr. Clute do something to separate this property so that they aren’t
coming to us all the time. Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-You’re welcome. Thank you. Sir, did you want to speak? Good
evening.
MIKE TIMKO
MR. TIMKO-My name’s Mike Timko, and I’m a resident at 39 Howard Street, and I
purchased my house about three months ago from Mr. Clute, and I did a lot of research
before I did that. I wanted to see what would happen in a neighborhood that he’s trying
to revitalize, and I looked at neighborhoods he’s done two or four years ago, and most of
those neighborhoods, actually all of them, have turned into quite nice little communities.
So I took the chance on what is a little bit of a rundown area to buy a brand new home,
especially in the market that we’re in, and see what happens. Now in the three months
I’ve lived there, it’s already starting to turn around, and I’m one of the only new residents,
there’s only a few. People are cleaning up their yards. Some of the rundown homes are
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for sale. I believe that if you add more homes to the area, that you’re going to create a
nice community. I believe that’s what’s going to happen. You’re going to raise property
values in the area. You’re going to take an old sandpit and turn it into a useable space.
You won’t have people, hopefully, traipsing through there anymore, because it’ll be
people’s homes and yards. People want to take care of their new home. He’s not
putting in trailers. He’s putting in what I appear to see is nicer homes. So I think it’s a
win/win situation for the Town. It’s a win/win situation for myself, and other residents of
the neighborhood, and that’s really all I have to say.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Did anyone else want to address the Board? Yes, sir.
BILL HAMELIN
MR. HAMELIN-It’s me again, Bill Hamelin, Queen Victoria’s Grant, not a big favorite of
the ATV’s. Never will be. I like disciplined sports. Elaine pretty much said everything I
was going to say, but I’ve still got to say something else. I’m worried, and I don’t know if
this is proper to say at this meeting, I’m worried about the gentleman’s balance sheet.
He has two spec houses on the street now. He says he’s going to sell half the houses
before he builds the 18. So he’s going to sell nine, at one of the meetings we were at,
he’s going to sell nine before he roams on forward with these buildings, so he’s only got
to spec nine, and I’m just very worried that, in this economy, there’s so many houses for
sale, at all sorts of prices, low income, middle income, high income, that he’s going to
end up swallowing these 18 houses, and then they’re going to sit there and rot. That’s all
I have to say.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, sir.
DUANE COLLIGNON
MR. COLLIGNON-Hi. My name’s Duane Collignon. I live on 11 Howard Street. I’m
looking forward for these new houses to come. I own one of the Clute houses. It was a
great opportunity for my wife and I about four years ago to get into. We found it very
affordable, and we actually currently have been looking to leave Howard Street because
we don’t see it, we were hoping it would clean up, and it definitely has cleaned up, but
we’re outgrowing our house. So we’re actually thinking about putting an addition on right
now, but we don’t want to if it’s not going to be worth staying. We’d rather leave the area
to find a better one, and I would rather see more houses go up. I’ve seen the model
house. We’ve actually looked in it, (lost words) slightly out of our price range. I’m sure
it’s not for many other people, but I would see people that would buy those houses be
responsible, which would clean the street up and be a nice neighborhood. We’d actually
like to move across the street, in Burnt Hills, which is another one of Clute’s
communities, that the communities are great, and we just feel, we’d feel safe, and when
we bought the house it’s, we were looking at the long term. We knew that it would have
to clean up. Almost every street around us there’s a nice communities, and I just feel like
our street’s the next one to be nice. So we can feel safe with our kids. So we’d really
look forward to seeing that, and we don’t think the traffic would really pick up, except for
the new houses. Howard Street has been known for pretty busy for a dead end street,
but we’d really like to see those houses go up so we could stay and not have to look for
somewhere else. Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you.
MR. SIPP-Is 11 Howard toward the end of the street or is it?
MR. COLLIGNON-It’s near the end. It’s three houses up from Sherman.
MR. SIPP-All right. So you’re in the area which would be almost across from where this
new develop, across Howard Street from where this new development would be?
MR. COLLIGNON-We are, this new development would be on the end of our street.
MR. SIPP-Yes. You’re close to that end.
MR. COLLIGNON-We’re on the opposite end.
MR. SIPP-On the opposite end.
MR. COLLIGNON-Because we’re on the end of Sherman, and it would be on the dead
end side, I believe.
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MR. SIPP-Have you had snowmobiles, ATV’s coming across this property and getting
near your property?
MR. COLLIGNON-No. We had a run in a couple of years ago with, Teemer Leary was
running next door to us, and he was running his ATV’s, but he’s not a problem anymore
because he’s not there. He’s in jail. So, other than that, I really don’t see any, we don’t
have any problems with the ATV’s. We hear them. I believe they were up on the
telephone poles across the street from like Burnt Hills, those telephone poles, but I really
don’t hear them on our street anymore, which is nice, and I don’t see, if there’s new
houses going in, more ATV’s coming in to newer houses. I just don’t see it.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you.
MR. COLLIGNON-Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, sir.
TOM CORLEW
MR. CORLEW-My name’s Tom Corlew. I live in Queen Victoria’s Grant. I’m President
of the Homeowners Association. A few years ago we entered into an agreement with the
Town of Queensbury to put a water drain in from the next development up on Peggy Ann
Road. When that in, it was supposed to be closed off so that nobody could use it. All
that actually did was open up the next development to come through the back of our
property to the pole line. Now we’re hearing, as you’ve heard everybody say, four
wheelers, snowmobilers, motorcycles, and you can sit out there on a Sunday afternoon
and just hear them shooting down through the woods. You go over and try to stop them.
They say it’s common ground. Nobody owns it. We can use it. We’ve cut down trees,
fell them across the trail. Someone comes in with a chainsaw, cuts a tree in half, pulls it
out of the way, opens the trail back up. We’ve put up posted signs. Didn’t matter. They
take the posted signs down. I mean, the main thing we’re worried about now is the
people, I’m not one of them, but we have people that live with their backyard to that trail
and to this new development. They’re within probably 50 feet of the back of the
development. Yes, sir.
MR. KREBS-I’d like to ask a question. Because if it’s common ground and it’s owned by
the Association, you have a right, as an Association, to enforce the law.
MR. CORLEW-We’ve had the police in. The police have caught the four wheelers and
let them go. At this point, our next thing to do is catch them and then we’ll prosecute
them. We have no other option. I mean, other than, if Mr. Clute would put a fence of
some type up, maybe a berm with bushes on it or whatever, to discourage them from
coming on to our property. I mean, he’s got to put this dirt some place that he takes out
of a cellar, make it into a berm with some type of foliage on it to help reduce the noise,
and maybe they won’t come our way. Hopefully they’ll go some place else.
MR. HUNSINGER-Do you think a majority of the ATV’s and snowmobiles are coming
from Mr. Clute’s property, or are they coming from other properties?
MR. CORLEW-I think they’re just using that as a, all of a sudden you have a nice road
going right down through all these pine trees. It’s widen enough, the Town took dump
trucks in. They’ve got a backhoe in there, and I believe last year they extended it farther
down, to add more drainage because what they had wasn’t totally working. So now
they’ve just extended that road. So all of a sudden you could pull in there now with a, I
would say anybody that’s got a pick up truck could drive down that road without a
problem. That’s all I have to say.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you.
MRS. BRUNO-Sir, can you, I don’t know, the map in front of you, actually, it’s right
around there, it’s quite small at that scale, but can you point out where that drain and
everything went in, and where this road is that you’re speaking of?
MR. CORLEW-The drain that went in comes over here, and comes up through here, and
then it goes all the way back in here.
MRS. BRUNO-So the Town put a drain in there, and that’s where you’re saying the.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. CORLEW-The four wheelers, here’s the power line here, comes in, because they
needed to drain this area. This is where they put the road in, but we have a trail that
comes all the way around here, for septic cleaning, and things like that, and that’s where
they come in, this road here now, coming off the power line, and they just come around
here over to this development. It’s a natural, I would use it if I was doing the same thing.
If I was doing a four wheeler, it’s a natural trail. All we’re asking is a fence maybe behind
his property, something to buffer that, because as you can see how close it is here.
We’re talking just a few feet, not even from here to the parking lot.
MRS. BRUNO-Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Anyone else? Yes, sir.
KEVIN MONETTE
MR. MONETTE-My name’s Kevin Monette. I live in the area that you’re speaking about.
I lived on Leo Street, since 1988 to 1995. I then purchased a home on Dawn Road, 17
Dawn Road, and in that time, I’ve been in the area for 20 years. I’ve seen nothing but
positive things from Larry’s new construction, rehabbing old homes. He’s created a very
nice little community for me to raise my family in. It’s nice to see a rundown
neighborhood, 20 years ago, turn around to be what it is today, and like I said, I’ve seen
no negative, only positive things that the man’s done for our community, and I’d like to
see him go forward and move on and keep making nice homes and affordable homes for
people in our area.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you.
MR. MONETTE-Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Anyone else? Okay. We’ll conclude the hearing for this evening. Do
you have any comments about the?
MR. LAPPER-Yes, if I could just summarize what we heard, and just give a couple of
comments. What we talked about last month here and at the Zoning Board was the
positive benefit of connecting these two dead end streets, and in terms of continuing to
improve the neighborhood, and the people that are concerned from Queen Victoria’s
Grant, I think it’s Larry’s position that having new houses with families is going to stop
what’s going on now with people using this dead end area as an ATV and snowmobile
access. That doesn’t mean they might not still use the pole line to the west, but they
won’t get there through this property because people are going to have houses and cars
and back yards and swing sets. So we really feel that this will be beneficial to kind of
civilize that open area right now, and that’s going to address it. We were happy to
provide the 10 foot buffer that we talked about with the Planning Board last month, but
the lot, there’s just not enough room back there to put a berm, and Larry didn’t feel that a
fence would be beneficial on these lots, that it would be nicer to be looking at the trees,
but just having these families and these houses here should go a long way. He wants to
just continue to improve the area, and we had lots of people on the record talking about
that on Howard Street. So we think that this is all beneficial, and, you know, obviously
Queen Victoria’s has an issue with policing their common property, but we think it’s going
to be easier with these houses. Anything you want to add?
MR. CLUTE-I agree with Jon with the policing of it. It’s very difficult to police vacant
property. You just can’t be there 24 hours a day, and I have the same dilemmas that
Queen Victoria’s Grant has. There’s no way to stop the activity that’s there, short of
putting up a fence or allowing development, and once the homes are there and the yards
are there, the trail’s no longer there. So the access to the Queen Victoria’s Grant
property is now non-existent. The buffer zone that they have, quite accurate. Wildlife
abundant, deer, fox as they say. I think a fence would be a distraction to that, you know,
the free flow of the wildlife just doesn’t exist. Plus, forever green, a fence, I don’t know, I
think contradicts the whole term. I think I’d rather look at the trees, and there’s an
abundance of forest between Queen Victoria’s Grant and this property. The property I
have, unfortunately, is a sandpit. So the actual tree growth is minimal, but along that
back property line I believe we’ve got 10 to 15 foot worth of woods that could easily be
no cut zone, and to add to the wooded buffer zone, but I believe the houses, that’s the
end of the four wheeler. That’s the end of the snowmobile. No more trail access.
MRS. BRUNO-Mr. Clute, you actually segwayed into one of my questions. I,
unfortunately, wasn’t able to get down to the subdivision, potential subdivision. So, could
you describe to me what you plan or what you typically do for landscaping? If we’re
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
looking at a 10 foot, leaving the trees 10 feet, how much of this sandpit is going to
actually going to become attractive? How attractive is it going to become?
MR. CLUTE-I’ll be honest. Twenty years ago we did absolutely nothing as far as yards.
Affordability, affordability, affordability. The standard practice, at this point.
MR. LAPPER-Take a look at S-3 while Larry’s talking. That gives you a sense of what
it’s going to look like with houses.
MR. CLUTE-The practice at this point, though, is I pave the driveways. I landscape the
front yards, which is some shrubbery and hydroseeding the grass. The rear yard I leave
as an option to the homeowner. Again, expense sometimes is an issue, but I, as the
developer, want to see the front yard. I don’t want to leave it sandy anymore, and so
when I leave the subdivision or I leave the neighborhood, it looks like a completed
neighborhood. So we incorporate the paved driveways. We incorporate the green front
yard, and in the landscaping I do put some shrubbery around the homes, so when I do
exit the subdivision it’ll be done. It’ll look like a neighborhood, and the no cut zone, self-
explanatory. It just really extends the forever green space that Queen Victoria’s Grant
already has, and so the benefit of that space, not only to them, is also to the recipients of
the homes, if approved, and it’s just nice to look out in your backyard and see forest.
MR. FORD-Would some of these non-vegetated backyards face their community?
MR. CLUTE-Would it border their common ground? No question. Would it be visible
from their property? Not a chance. That’s the whole point of their buffer. It really, I
mean, it serves multi-purposes for them. There are trails within there for their quality of
life issues, but also it serves as a purpose for the buffer of their community, which is a
terrific community. There is a section in Queen Victoria’s Grant where it loops around
and it, their buffer narrows, but again, the vegetation that I have is the vegetation that I
have. There is no, it’s just a huge sandpit, but the map that we don’t have available, I
mean, at a previous meeting we were able to see the map, and it’s a substantial forever
green, which was done purposely for the Queen Victoria’s Grant. It’s a terrific feature for
their property.
MR. LAPPER-At a minimum it’s got to be 50 feet.
MR. CLUTE-It is. If she’s on the curve, she’s the closest, I would say, she’s max 50, you
know, she’s probably the closest at 50 feet, but of dense forest.
MRS. BRUNO-So, the way that you’re describing it, I’m not really seeing it in terms of the
existing clearing limits.
MR. LAPPER-Tanya, look at the cover sheet.
MR. CLUTE-Queen Victoria’s Grant affected property. She would be the closest. If
she’s here, that’s at 50, and this is very dense forest right here. Their trail is, it’s subtle.
It’s not very large until it opens up into Queensbury’s drainage. So theirs is, as they say,
they’re not exaggerating in any way. It’s a nice trail. It’s nice to be able to walk in there
and so it’s not really apparent.
MR. HUNSINGER-So how wide is the drainage trail?
MR. CLUTE-It’s when Queensbury put in the drainage. That was dump trucks wide.
MR. LAPPER-But that’s not near you.
MR. CLUTE-But it’s not near this parcel, but it’s accessible via this parcel. This parcel,
call it a head to the trail. When you come in on Howard Street, it’s completely open.
You’re right into the sandpit.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. CLUTE-And that’s what a lot of these people are doing. They’re literally loading at
the sandpit. They go through the sandpit, up through Queen Victoria’s Grant’s common
property, through that property, hit Queensbury’s drainage. It’s all accessible as one of
the gentleman said. If he was a four wheeler, he’d keep right on going. It’s all
connected, and that’s what’s happening, but I think if you eliminate the trail head, I would
have to believe that the activity would definitely slow down. I can’t guarantee that it
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
would go away, but I would have to believe that it would slow down because now you’d
be going through people’s yards.
MR. HUNSINGER-Sure. You’ve eliminated the access.
MR. CLUTE-I believe so.
MRS. BRUNO-So, just so that I can understand this, right through here, I can see that’s
the existing tree line which makes this all basically the sandpit. I’m guessing that the first
lady that came up here probably lives right around here, because she spoke of a little hill
and some of the drainage problems there. You were saying that there could be a 10 foot
buffer, that it’s quite thick through here, but I’m not seeing that, if you’ve got the trees
wrapping around through here.
MR. CLUTE-Well, this, I’ll be honest with you, these lines aren’t really trees. These are
topo lines.
MRS. BRUNO-No, no, no, not these. I know those are topo lines. These are your trees.
MR. CLUTE-Well, yes and no. There’s actually trees right along this buffer line right
here. There’s minimal. This is a huge open sandpit. So there’s trees that aren’t
annotated on this map. This is more thicker woods. This I would describe that the
density of this parcel right here is equal to what they have as a buffer here, but in this
area, it’s very thin, because it’s all open sandpit, but still to the back side of these lots,
the density equals this, but the more you progress into the property the more open it
becomes. So we were proposing, or actually we incorporated into the final plan is to not,
you know, we just don’t cut to that back side and make it a deed restriction.
MRS. BRUNO-You’re going to delineate that on the plans?
MR. CLUTE-Absolutely.
MR. HUNSINGER-Can you explain to us, you said a lot of the lots are open. Are you
referring to like Lots 24, 23, and 22?
MR. CLUTE-Yes, absolutely. Those are, you’re right there at the cusp of that sandpit. If
you were to go down in there, it looks like a mini racetrack.
MR. HUNSINGER-So does the sandpit actually, does the sandpit, you know, the old
sandpit, does it actually go into lands of Queen Victoria’s Grant Homeowners
Association at all?
MR. CLUTE-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-So once you get to that property line, it is wooded?
MR. CLUTE-Absolutely. Absolutely.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. CENTER-If you look at the contour lines, too, in particular, where it says Lands now
or formerly of Queen Victoria’s Grant, you can see the 405 that’s on their property, and
we have the low point of the road, between 24 and 23. Those lots actually sit at, you
know, 401 is finished grade outside the house. So it will sit down a little bit to that rise. I
don’t know what the topography is beyond that, but that’s another thing we do set down a
little bit down from that knoll that’s in that, call it less wooded area along those lines.
MR. HUNSINGER-The topography will help as a visual barrier as well.
MR. CENTER-The topography, yes, it should.
MRS. BRUNO-Just to clarify my earlier question, in terms of, you know, what do you do
when you landscape. So we’ve got two very distinct areas. I understand what you’re
thinking of doing now in the sand area. Go over to the densely populated by tree area,
vegetated area, Lots 28, 27, those. How much do you plan on removing before you put
the houses in?
MR. CLUTE-To be honest with you, a good portion of, honestly, would have to be
removed. Septic and house, and even though, from an outside point of view, standing at
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
the forest, looking at it, it’s terrific, it’s green, but the quality of the trees, per se, if I were
a homeowner, I wouldn’t want them as my trees. They’re scrub pines, scrub oaks, so
they’re not quality trees. There are some maples, and I tend to favor that. If they’re not
in my way, I’ll leave quality trees, but when constructing homes, if it’s not a quality tree or
a shrub, you tend to avoid it anyway. Most people don’t want them, but with the house
and septic, the front is definitely going to open up. The rear does not need to be
affected.
MRS. BRUNO-Okay. Thank you.
MR. CLUTE-As a matter of fact, by Code, you have a buffer zone incorporate setbacks.
That’s already incorporated. That’s just part of the Building Code. It’s not Code to say
that you can’t cut down the trees, but you can’t construct within this particular zone. So
it’s very easy to state within the deeds no cut, so now not only is the Code stating you
can’t construct, but in the deed you’re stating you can’t cut. On the final plan that would
be incorporated.
MR. HUNSINGER-If you’re showing S-3 as the quote unquote proposed clearing limits, it
looks like you’re keeping a much bigger buffer across Lots 25 through 28 than just 10
feet.
MR. CLUTE-Trying very hard. In writing, I would want to say, because if I’m stating the
Queen Victoria’s Grant border, I have to take into consideration the less dense lots, too,
and I think I’ve got 10 to 15 foot worth of trees there, but if I don’t have to encroach any
further into the property, then I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t take down those trees, irrelevant if
they were less quality trees or not because they’re incorporated into the forest, but you
put in the minimal 10 foot, so not only if I didn’t clear it, the homeowner, when they came
in, they’d be instructed, even if they wanted to open up their yard, they could only do it to
a certain point.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, I guess what I’m saying is more than that, because you have
this labeled as proposed clearing limits.
MR. CLUTE-Right.
MR. HUNSINGER-So to me, by delineating those proposed clearing limits as shown on
this map, you’re saying we’re not going to cut any trees behind that limit.
MR. CLUTE-That’s correct.
MR. HUNSINGER-And clearly this limit is greater than 10 feet.
MR. CLUTE-It is. It is. Yes, and like I say, I try, to a minimal anyway, to not cut it down.
I’m not a big fan of clear cut in a subdivision, and so that would be taken into account.
Whatever I have to take down, of course I have to take down. I have to accommodate a
septic. I have to accommodate a house, and in particular perimeter, but if you can leave
the vegetation, especially to the rear side, because it’s tied right in to pre-existing forest,
Queen Victoria’s Grant’s buffer zone, which is a great amenity, a good quality of life
issue. So it’s nice to keep.
MR. FORD-Larry, tying in with that whole concept of vegetation, would it not be an
appropriate step to take, and a nice amenity improvement, if you were to seed those
backyards?
MR. CLUTE-We could, just as easily. I like to leave it open for the same reason. If it
were necessary, absolutely. I know it sounds really, I keep on saying it over and over,
the affordability factor. You start getting into these numbers, ever number matters to
people. So, can I incorporate the hydroseed? Sure. If I backed it out, it might be a
savings for a buyer down the line, and it leaves the options open. Some, you know,
maybe they could afford a pool or anything like that. It’s not a distraction roadside. It’s
typically an issue rear yard side, but could it be grassed? Absolutely.
MRS. BRUNO-Sounds like it would help, too.
MR. FORD-That’s what I would like to see, personally.
MR. CLUTE-Yes.
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MRS. BRUNO-You have a lot of people speaking about how your houses have brought
the neighborhood up, and I think that that could only help, you know, if it is that barren. I
would understand if you maybe you kind of had some foliage there or whatever, but I
agree with Mr. Ford.
MR. FORD-And there is a difference between running an ATV across someone’s grassy
plot out back, their lawn, and a piece of sand, that no one apparently cares that much
about, in as much as it hasn’t been seeded.
MR. CLUTE-No question.
MR. LAPPER-Would you agree to that as a condition if the Board wanted that?
MR. CLUTE-I mean, I could easily seed the backyard as well. As I said, the front yard
would be seeded and shrubbed and the driveway paved, and it’s just as simple to seed
the rear yard as well.
MR. HUNSINGER-And it’s really only on a handful of lots.
MR. CLUTE-As you’ve stated, yes. There’s some pretty big dense, higher density as
you increase up the westerly side of the subdivision.
MR. SIPP-Are these basically three bedroom houses?
MR. CLUTE-They’re two to three bedroom units.
MR. SIPP-Two story or ranch?
MR. CLUTE-They range. Could be a ranch design, a raised ranch design, colonial
design, very few capes being build nowadays, but ranches and colonials, typically
smaller, tend to be your most affordable product.
MR. LAPPER-I think that Don wasn’t here. You talked about 900 to 1300 square feet?
MR. CLUTE-Yes. Really the square footage that exists already, if you were to come into
Geneva Estates, or even get into Geneva Estates, on Eisenhower, on Dawn Road, a few
on Howard Street, nothing really out of line in comparison to those homes, which those
homes are 850, roughly the largest one being maybe 1500 square. So it’s that range,
but again, the key being the affordability.
MR. SIPP-This was commonly known as Bennettsville at one time.
MR. CLUTE-I grew up there, so, yes.
MR. SIPP-It’s an improvement over Bennettsville.
MR. CLUTE-On the end of Howard Street was Bennettsville, yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, what’s the feeling of the Board?
MR. SEGULJIC-A quick question. So the Queen Victoria’s Grant, that property, where
the property intersects between your land and Queen Victoria’s, that’s wooded, on the
Queen Victoria’s side now?
MR. CLUTE-Yes.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay.
MR. LAPPER-It’s common property owned by the Association.
MR. SEGULJIC-Right.
MRS. BRUNO-This is all Ward Three, correct?
MR. CLUTE-I think Ward Four. I think it’s Four.
MR. SEGULJIC-And so I understand this, also, so you have the proposed clearing limits
on Lots 28, 27, and 26, partially on 25.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. CLUTE-Right.
MR. SEGULJIC-But there’s nothing on 24, 23, and 22 right now.
MR. CLUTE-I think you’re going to find what stands there now, if you were to walk down
there and what meshes into Queen Victoria’s Grant’s natural forest, there’s probably
going to be 10 to 15 foot worth of that extending into the lots.
MR. LAPPER-But no more than that.
MR. CLUTE-But no more than that. That’s where the sandpit actually encroaches the
closest to Queen Victoria’s Grant.
MR. SEGULJIC-Right. So we don’t have anything on 22 through 24 now.
MR. CLUTE-Would be your closest lots, yes.
MR. LAPPER-I guess the difference is this, though, Tom. He’s saying that the 10 foot no
cut zone will be in the deed, and the homeowner will be bound by that, but when it says
proposed clearing limits, on those three lots, 26, 27, and 28, that doesn’t mean that the
homeowner couldn’t modify that, put in a pool, put in more backyard.
MR. SEGULJIC-Right, but I’m more concerned about 22, 23, and 24, where there is
nothing now.
MR. LAPPER-Right.
MR. CENTER-It’s relatively sparser trees. When you look at clearing limits.
MR. SEGULJIC-So are you proposing to plant some trees back there, then?
MR. CLUTE-No, sir. I’m proposing to put in the deed.
MR. SEGULJIC-But you had indicated you were going to put in a ten foot buffer.
MR. CLUTE-It already has the 10 foot buffer. Those lots already have a 10 foot buffer.
The lots more westerly.
MR. SEGULJIC-But there’s nothing there.
MR. CLUTE-Well, no, yes there is. Within 10 foot, there’s 10 foot minimal worth of
existing forest on those described lots. As you progress further west, there becomes
more forest.
MR. HUNSINGER-I wish our GIS was up, because I remember looking at it the last time.
MR. SEGULJIC-I would want to see that, because that’s not what this plan is showing.
MR. LAPPER-If the GIS was up you would see it.
MR. CLUTE-It was on the GIS, and it’s unfortunate that a lot of the information may not
be on here, but these lots, this area right here, they do have trees within 10 to 15 foot.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay.
MR. CLUTE-I think why he put this on is just outline the highest density of forest, I guess.
MR. SEGULJIC-So I guess, that’s what I’d like to see is to just see that on the GIS.
MR. CLUTE-To be honest with you, even though this is the closest part, this is not the
head of the trail. The trail that’s really creating most of the issues is right through here
and goes right up into their property. This isn’t the area where a lot of the disturbances
are happening. It’s happening at a diagonal right here.
MR. HUNSINGER-So where’s the head of the trail, like which lot number?
MR. CLUTE-It runs at a diagonal through the higher density, through 26 and 27, right
here, and then it ties into, they have a very pleasant walking trail through their property.
17
(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
You access that walking trail, you tie right into Queensbury’s very wide drainage, which
also turns out to be a very nice trail.
MR. HUNSINGER-Wow, well, you know, clearly their walking trail was never meant to be
used by ATV’s.
MR. CLUTE-No, it was not intended, absolutely.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Any other questions or comments from the Board? Other than
the engineering issues, the no cut along the rear of the property line, and the perc tests,
are there any other outstanding issues that members have?
MR. FORD-The hydroseeding of the back lawns.
MR. HUNSINGER-Do you want to identify specific lots?
MR. CLUTE-Just as a blanket.
MR. KREBS-Try to eliminate people from driving their ATV’s across.
MR. FORD-You’ve got it. So you’re going to extend what you’re, you’re doing the front
and side. You’re going to extend that back, I assume, to the no cut zone.
MR. LAPPER-I think what we would say is disturbed area of the site will be hydroseeded.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. SEGULJIC-Should we put a time limit on that, within?
MR. CLUTE-It would be done before I closed.
MR. LAPPER-Well, unless it’s winter.
MR. CLUTE-Right, and then it would be Spring, first Spring.
MR. LAPPER-So, by CO, unless, you know, in May if it was completed outside of the
growing season.
MR. CLUTE-This request is actually going to be made part of my marketing. I’m putting
in an entire lawn. So I might as well state that.
MR. FORD-So when you put in the lawn, you put in the lawn.
MR. CLUTE-So now I’m going to be not only Queensbury obligated, but contractually
obligated.
MR. SEGULJIC-And the only other thing, Mr. Chairman, I’d like to see is the GIS
overviewed area for the trees along the property line.
MR. LAPPER-We could come back at Final and bring that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. LAPPER-Unless Keith can do it for us next time.
MR. HUNSINGER-Are people ready to move forward, then?
MR. FORD-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. We already did SEQRA. I will close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. HUNSINGER-And would anyone like to offer a resolution for Preliminary Stage
approval?
MR. SEGULJIC-It looks like you took some notes on that.
MR. HUNSINGER-I did.
18
(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. SEGULJIC-Looks like you’d do a fabulous job.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. I’ll give it a shot. Okay.
MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 11-2007 LARRY
CLUTE, Introduced by Chris Hunsinger who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Stephen Traver:
1)A subdivision application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for
the following: Applicant proposes subdivision of a 7.81 +/- acres into 18
residential lots ranging in size from 0.34 to 0.54 +/- acres. Subdivision of land
requires Planning Board review and approval.
2)A public hearing was advertised and held on 7/22/08 & 8/19/08; and
3)This application is supported with all documentation, public comment and
application material in the file of record; and
4)Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code [Chapter
183], the Planning Board has determined that this proposal complies with the
requirements as stated in the Zoning Code; and
5)The requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been
considered and the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration;
OR if the application is a modification, the requirements of the State
Environmental Quality Review Act have been considered, and the proposed
modification[s] do not result in any new or significantly different environmental
impacts, and, therefore, no further SEQRA review is necessary; and
6)Final approved plans, in compliance with the Subdivision, must be submitted to
the Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building and Codes personnel. The applicant must meet with
Staff after approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit and/or the beginning
of any site work. Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building
permits is dependent on compliance with this and all other conditions of this
resolution.
7)The applicant will provide as-built plans to certify that the subdivision is
developed according to the approved plans prior to issuance of the certificate of
occupancy; and
8)Not applicable: If applicable, Item 7 to be combined with a letter of credit; and
9)Not applicable: The Sanitary Sewer connection plan must be submitted to the
Wastewater Department for its review, approval, permitting and inspection; and
10)MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 11-2007
LARRY CLUTE, Introduced by Chris Hunsinger who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Stephen Traver:
In accordance with the draft resolution prepared by Staff: Item Four, the proposal
does comply; Item Five, SEQRA review was previously prepared and a Negative
Declaration was obtained; Item Eight does not apply. Item Nine does not apply.
The motion is made with the following special conditions:
a. For Final subdivision, the applicant will address the engineering
th
comments of July 18.
b. They will identify a 10 foot no cut buffer along the rear of the
property lines. There will be a deed restriction.
c. A label will be included on the plat stating that a perc test will be
performed for each lot prior to the issuance of a building permit.
d. The applicant will hydro seed the rear yards of the lots facing
Queen Victoria’s Grant on the disturbed areas of the site. The
hydro seeding will be done by the Certificate of Occupancy or if in
the winter, the following spring.
19
(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
th
Duly adopted this 19 day of August, 2008, by the following vote:
MR. FORD-You’re specifying only backyards along that Queen Victoria border?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. CLUTE-I mean, you could state it as I’m doing the entire yard. I’m automatically,
myself doing it, whether you requested it or not, the front. Your request is the rear yard.
So it would be added to what I’m doing already.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. FORD-So let’s just make it rear yards.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Rear yards. That’s the motion.
AYES: Mr. Traver, Mrs. Bruno, Mr. Sipp, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Ford,
Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
MR. LAPPER-Thank you. One quick question. We’ve already submitted for Final, and
we just have to add these notes that we’ve agreed to tonight. Would it be okay if we re-
submit by Friday so we can still stay on for September, just to add these conditions?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, I don’t have a problem with that.
MR. LAPPER-We already have the 10 foot buffer. We just have to add the seeding.
MR. HUNSINGER-The hydroseed, yes.
MR. LAPPER-The perc tests.
MR. HUNSINGER-Did you already submit all 17 copies?
MR. FORD-You’re already on for September?
MR. LAPPER-Well, we already submitted last week so we would be.
MR. OBORNE-There’s no guarantee they’re going to be on for September.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, I know. I understand that.
MR. LAPPER-It depends how many are tabled.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. LAPPER-But in any case, that it would still keep us in the queue. We’ll resubmit by
Friday with these conditions.
MR. HUNSINGER-That’s fine.
MR. LAPPER-Thank you very much.
SITE PLAN NO. 20-2008 SEQR TYPE II LAFORTE CONSTRUCTION CO.
AGENT(S) PARAGON CIVIL ENGINEERING OWNER(S) SAME ZONING WR-1A
LOCATION 2609 STATE ROUTE 9L APPLICANT PROPOSES CONSTRUCTION OF
A 4154 SQ. FT. SINGLE FAMILY HOME, IN A CEA, WITH A DISTURBED AREA OF
14,690 +/- SQ. FT. THIS PROJECT HAS BEEN CLASSIFIED AS A MAJOR PROJECT.
MAJOR STORMWATER PROJECTS REQUIRE SITE PLAN REVIEW. CROSS
REFERENCE BP 06-566 WARREN CO. PLANNING 5/14/08 APA/DEC/CEA L G
CEA, APA WETLANDS LOT SIZE 1.44 +/- ACRES TAX MAP NO. 240.5-1-33
SECTION 147-12
CLARK WILKINSON
MR. HUNSINGER-Keith, whenever you’re ready, summarize Staff Notes, please.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. OBORNE-Application Site Plan No. 20-2008, Laforte Construction. Applicant
proposes construction of a 4,154 square foot single family home located in the Lake
George CEA. Total disturbed area is approximately 15,870 square feet, without septic
and stormwater management disturbances, and as such this project has been classified
a Major Stormwater project and requires Site Plan Review. Location 2609 State Route
9L, Waterfront Residential One Acre. SEQRA Status is II. Parcel History, it’s pending a
single family dwelling building permit. Project Description, the applicant proposes a
4,150 square foot single family home on 1.44 acres. This project was tabled on May 29,
2008 in order for the applicant to address the following: Staff Notes, VISION
Engineering comments, Floor Area Ratio calculations. The applicant requested further
tabling consideration on July 15, 2008 which was granted until August 19, 2008. Site
Plan Review, Sheet 1 Distance between proposed well and proposed septic ambiguous
Limit of clearing not noted on plan Sheet 2 There’s no immediate concerns The
applicant was asked to correct Floor Area Ratio calculations and to date none have been
submitted. However, Staff calculates the FAR as 6.6%.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MR. WILKINSON-Good evening. For the record, my name is Clark Wilkinson with
Paragon Civil Engineering, representing Laforte construction on this project. We have
been here in front of you guys, and again, as he stated, we were tabled. I believe a
majority of the comments have all been worked out and clarified. The last one that we
were asked to do, which is why we requested an extension of the tabling, was get
topography on the site to do a complete topographic survey, and then provide the
grading plan and stormwater management to be shown, rather than the USGS contours
that were originally on it, and it took a while to get that scheduled and done, and we’re
down to, a few, what I see as a few comments that I’ll be more than happy to go through
both Staff and VISION Engineering comments with you, but we’re here tonight to try to
gain Site Plan approval of this single family house. To start with, I do have a transmittal
that when I submitted the 14 sets of plans, there was 14 copies of the Floor Area
computations with that package. I don’t know what happened to it, but I did re-do them
as requested, and I can certainly turn them in. It’s a minor thing.
MR. HUNSINGER-Do you have them with you right now?
MR. WILKINSON-That’s what I was looking for before you, and I can still find them and
see if I can get them to you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. WILKINSON-Then the only other Staff comment was the limit of clearing is not
noted on plan. I showed a proposed wood line. I didn’t clearly label it as limit of clearing,
but that was his intent, and I can just label that. That’s relatively minor. The distance
between the proposed well and septic, a contour label and the dimension overlapped.
That’s why it’s hard to read. I’ll clarify that. It’s 107.8 feet to be exact, and addressing
VISION comments, one, two, and three and four are all noted as completed. Number
Five, I did the runoff calculations and storage requirements for a 100 year design, and
he’s asking me to resubmit with a 25 year with no infiltration for frozen groundwater
conditions. With my experience and knowledge of stormwater, the 25 year storm with
frozen ground conditions will stay within the 100 year design as designed, but I’ll submit
those computations, hopefully as part of the Final plan to get his blessing on it, but again,
being designed for the 100 year storm, I did that purposefully to be a little conservative to
make sure, in frozen ground conditions, because I don’t have anything below frost,
because of high rock, that it was conservative enough of a design that it would maintain
stormwater for the entire site. Item Number Six, the requirement for the 100 foot from
the separation from the well from the driveway runoff or roadway runoff, I’ve shown
grading in spot shots, and I can make sure that VISION Engineering, it’s clear enough to
them, to try to divert all drainage away from the well. I believe I’ve done that with the
grading and drainage plan, and if he needs some clarification or additional spot shots, I
can do that, but that’s the intent, to try to build up or keep the well area a little higher to
make sure everything goes away from it, so there won’t be any leakage down the sides
of the well.
MRS. BRUNO-It looks like it’s only just a little bit more than a foot. Your well is up on
100.
MR. WILKINSON-Between the well and the, that’s the driveway.
MRS. BRUNO-The driveway is .99, or 99.5.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. WILKINSON-And if that’s the case we’ll move it, but we’ll make sure that we can
meet that comment. It’s minor.
MRS. BRUNO-Yes.
MR. WILKINSON-Item Seven, additional information should be provided specific to the
Code, Section 147 C, including timing and stabilization measures. I did not submit a
construction schedule, and there was a couple of details that he wanted me to add that
are specified in there. Again, it’s not a problem. I can just add them. Number Eight was
completed. Nine is completed. Ten is completed. Eleven, existing ground slope under
the proposed septic system, yes, it does, I measured it as not quite 30. It does exceed
the 10, but it’s in a graded condition, and I can also slide the septic system a little bit
sideways and make sure that it meets the not greater than 10%. If I slide it to the, would
be the west, I can make sure that the discharge from the stormwater, as well as that
area, can be utilized. That’s more or less where the test pits were done. There’s three
test pits done in that area. I can make sure that they’re shown, that the system is shown
in an area that’s less than 10%, so that I do not have to go in front of the Town Board of
Health. Number 12 is revision to shallow trench detail. Again, it’s minor. It’s just
changing the detail, and Number 13, clarification of plan diversion swale up gradient.
There’s a couple of spot shots that I didn’t either put on the wrong layer and it didn’t plot
or I didn’t add in that I thought I did, but I can clarify that, the drainage up gradient of the
septic system to show the diversion with some spot shots added to that plan, and 14,
stone trench deleted from the plans. Again, that’s minor, I can do that, and the last one
is provide a cross section of the stone spillway, and I can certainly add that to the plan.
So based on going through these comments, the only one that has any significance, in
my professional opinion, is the one with the location of the septic area and the slope, and
I will address that and make sure that VISION Engineering, the final design meets that
compliance, and I’m here tonight to ask the Board for a final Site Plan approval on this
project. Right now I’ll turn it over to you. I believe you still have a public hearing open,
too, if I’m not mistaken.
MR. HUNSINGER-We do. Questions, comments from the Board?
MR. FORD-I have some questions I’d like to have you address.
MR. WILKINSON-Sure.
MR. FORD-You have a typical leach field layout with a typical distribution box, and the
laterals, and that does not correspond to your schematic on the first page, with the db’s
placement relative to the laterals. Are you using the other, just typical of?
MR. WILKINSON-Yes. The short answer to that is yes. The detail.
MR. FORD-So it has nothing to do with what you’re proposing?
MR. WILKINSON-No. To be specific, the plan, on the first sheet, which is the actual plan
for this project, is where I want the D-box relative to the laterals, and that’s what the
contractor should build from. The detail on the back just shows that each one has to
have service from the D-box. It’s really, that detail is really to show the spacing and the
length of the layout of the laterals. It’s not really referring to the D-box itself, and then the
plan shows it, and again, it’s a typical layout. It doesn’t mean that it’s for this project. It
just means it could be for any project.
MR. FORD-Could you explain to us why you have designed it in such a way that the
distribution box is placed as you have it on your schematic for the first one, as opposed
to the typical one?
MR. WILKINSON-Because of the slope of the site, if it was a flatter site, I could come in
in the middle relatively easy, but because it’s a sloped site, I always place the D-box on
the highest lateral, so that when you’re coming out of it, the distribution is always
downhill and the flow is better, because on a sloped site, if you put the D-box in the
middle, your upper laterals, because you have to come downhill from the D-box, could
be too deep, going against the slope, and you don’t want them deeper than 30 inches.
MR. FORD-Sure don’t. I just experienced that at our Homeowners Association this
summer. What would be the maximum coverage of those laterals, soil?
22
(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. WILKINSON-That’s in the absorption trench detail. There’s a minimum of two
inches of stone over the pipe, and that’s a minimum, and a six to twelve inches of topsoil,
that’s a maximum of 12 inches. So there’s anywhere from 14 to, I’d say 14 to 15, 16
inches max over top of the stone, which, or over top of the actual pipe, and the bottom of
the trench is the one that’s critical. The bottom of the trench is anywhere from 24 to 30
inches below the soil. That’s the critical one.
MR. FORD-Yes.
MR. WILKINSON-And where the other ones are is kind of irrelevant, because if you have
a shallow system you have to bring in material and build it up, and, you know, if you want
to get into that I can, but it doesn’t apply here.
MR. FORD-But there’s a technical term for it, but in essence, that leach field needs to
breath.
MR. WILKINSON-Correct. It’s aerobic digestion occurs in the field, and it has to have air
in order to do that. If you put the laterals too deep in the ground, it doesn’t get air readily,
and it will fail.
MR. FORD-So if your slope is too great, it doesn’t work.
MR. WILKINSON-Correct. Right, and that’s why on the front sheet that I did set the D-
box at the high end so I’m working with the slope, so I’m not going against it.
MR. FORD-Thank you. Good explanation, good design.
MR. WILKINSON-Thank you.
MRS. BRUNO-You said the critical point is the bottom of the?
MR. WILKINSON-Bottom of the trench.
MRS. BRUNO-The trench. So level trench bottom.
MR. WILKINSON-That is correct.
MRS. BRUNO-Can you just add that to the plan?
MR. WILKINSON-What’s that? It’s in the absorption trench detail shows that.
MRS. BRUNO-But I’m looking at that. You’ve got six min to twelve max on the earth.
MR. WILKINSON-Correct.
MRS. BRUNO-Two (lost word) there, then you’ve got your depth of, I guess you’re kind
of, the way I’m looking at it, it looks like you’re missing the distance from the bottom of
the.
MR. WILKINSON-That’s the 30 inches max.
MRS. BRUNO-I’m not seeing that labeled anywhere, though. The only reason why I’m
saying that is so if you hand this off to a contractor, we know that he built it.
MR. WILKINSON-Yes, and that’s a standard Health Department, and if it’s not on yours,
it’s on my print that I just printed today, which I thought was the exact same prints that
you have.
MRS. BRUNO-I could be staring right at it.
MR. WILKINSON-It’s on the very far left, right against the border. It says 30 inches max.
MRS. BRUNO-I’m looking at the, I’m sorry, I’m looking at the wrong section. There you
go. Yes. I’m hassling you.
MR. WILKINSON-That’s okay.
MR. SEGULJIC-A couple of housekeeping things.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. WILKINSON-Sure, Tom.
MR. SEGULJIC-When I look at Lot Two on the plan, it says 1.44 acres. When I look in
your stormwater plan, it’s 1., you have it listed as 1.75 acres.
MR. WILKINSON-That’s correct.
MR. SEGULJIC-Which one is it?
MR. WILKINSON-No, the lot itself is 1.44 acres. The drainage area is 1.75 acres
because it takes from the centerline of 9L onto the site.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay. All right. Then with regards to the weir, the weirs on site, you
have them as five feet wide by two feet long?
MR. WILKINSON-Correct.
MR. SEGULJIC-Shouldn’t it be the other way, the two feet wide by five feet long?
MR. WILKINSON-No. The length of a weir is measured along a flow path.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay. You got me on that one. All right. How does the stormwater
work on site?
MR. WILKINSON-Through, basically it’s shallow depressions that are storing the water
and infiltrating, and there’s one fairly significant sized basin, that’s the one to the east
side of the driveway. That’s the largest one, and the culvert’s going under their driveway
to connect those two basins. Basically they’re filling up with the runoff from the paved,
and the roof areas, going to these depressions where they’re going to be stored, and
they’re very large, shallow depressions, and then it slowly percolates into the soil, and if
you get too many storms in a row, or it’s a large storm above 100 year, then there’s
outlets, which are the weirs, that regulate how much water goes out, and it raises up to
that point and trickles over those weirs.
MR. SEGULJIC-So there’s a weir along the west side of the driveway, I mean, no, sorry,
a swale. So the driveway is going to be sloped to the west, to the swale.
MR. WILKINSON-The driveway’s more or less crowned, but, yes. There’s slope in both
directions.
MR. SEGULJIC-So how are you going to get the water on the east side?
MR. WILKINSON-The east side is where the discharge is from the stormwater basin.
MR. SEGULJIC-But there’s no swale along the east side of the driveway.
MR. WILKINSON-No, but there’s a depression there. This swale along the east, there is
actually a swale, if you look at the contours and spot shots, it naturally flows into that
depression, because I used the natural contours that exist there to create it. So the
water already flows there.
MR. SEGULJIC-So you’re saying on the east side of the driveway it already flows into
the?
MR. WILKINSON-That’s correct. If you look at the spots going up the hill, it actually
flows there, and, I mean, if there’s a little clarification, a couple of more spot shots, I can
certainly add those.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay. Then on the west side you’re going to construct a swale.
MR. WILKINSON-From near the end of the driveway.
MR. SEGULJIC-Into the basin.
MR. WILKINSON-Down into that little small area that goes underneath the driveway with
the culvert to the large stormwater basin.
MR. SEGULJIC-And what’s that swale going to look like?
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. WILKINSON-It’s grassed, because it’s only about a one percent, one and a half
percent slope.
MR. SEGULJIC-But you didn’t provide any details on that, correct?
MR. WILKINSON-Correct.
MR. SEGULJIC-So we don’t know, how deep is that going to be?
MR. WILKINSON-Six inches to twelve inches max.
MR. SEGULJIC-Is that stated in here?
MR. WILKINSON-It’s stated in the report, I believe, and if it’s not, I can certainly clarify it
on the plan.
MR. SEGULJIC-That should probably go on the plan, right?
MR. WILKINSON-Sure. Absolutely. I could probably even show a section, if you’d like.
MR. SEGULJIC-That would even be better.
MR. WILKINSON-Okay. Perfect.
MR. SEGULJIC-And then the two basins are going to communication. So it’s going to
flow from the west side to the east side.
MR. WILKINSON-Correct.
MR. SEGULJIC-And then from there it’s an overflow out.
MR. WILKINSON-Correct, all the while, all in contact with soil that’s percable soil.
MR. SEGULJIC-All right, and now the roof leaders from the home are going to go into
which basin?
MR. WILKINSON-Both the ones on each side of the driveway, half the house is going
that way.
MR. SEGULJIC-Because on your plans I didn’t see any roof leaders going into the.
MR. WILKINSON-There are no roof leaders. It’s a drip. They’re not putting downspouts
on it, as far as I know. I’ve got to check the architectural plans to make sure if it is or isn’t
on there. I was told they’re not putting gutters and downspouts. So it’s going to drip onto
the grass, and then the grass is going to flow along to the depressions how I have it
graded.
MR. SEGULJIC-So the area on the south of the house is going to drip off and then
collect in that basin, the lower area to the south?
MR. WILKINSON-It’s actually a ridge in the middle of the house to the south that flows
both ways, half towards the driveway stormwater and half towards the stormwater to the
southwest of the house.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay. So what’s in the northern part of the house is going to flow to the
north.
MR. WILKINSON-This same idea. There’s a ridge right in the middle. Half of it flows
towards the little depressed area on the west side of the driveway. The other half of the
house flows by sheet flow to the depression that’s on the southwest side of the house.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay. I guess, just for me, I think that would be important for a
contractor to have that clarification.
MR. WILKINSON-On the swale?
MR. SEGULJIC-On the swales and where what’s going to flow.
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MR. WILKINSON-I think, as far as where it’s going to flow, is very clear on the plan with
maybe the absence of one or two spot shots for a little bit more clarity, but in general the
contours that are on there show exactly what it’s going to do.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay. Now, the site now appears to have a lot of water on it.
MR. WILKINSON-That’s correct, because it had machinery on it to clear it.
MR. SEGULJIC-That water’s been sitting there all summer.
MR. WILKINSON-That’s correct.
MR. SEGULJIC-In theory the driest time of the year, although this has been a rainy
summer.
MR. WILKINSON-Well, not this year. This year we’ve had 12 inches of rain in the past
two weeks.
MR. SEGULJIC-But even before that 12 inches, even back in June, there was water
standing.
MR. WILKINSON-Again, it’s because of the activity of the machinery, because there’s a
high rock there, some of the machinery actually, or some of the clearing actually got
down to the rock elevation because they were clearing for the pad of the house, and
that’s what they wanted to put the footings on, and that’s why you’re not seeing any
infiltration there. Outside of the area that was bulldozed, there is no real other standing
water. There’s some spots that have a little bit of standing water for short amount of
times, but it dissipates after a while, but it’s mainly in that area where the house is going
because there’s high rock there and they went down very close, if not on the rock.
MR. SEGULJIC-I mean, a lot of that site has standing water on it. Wouldn’t you agree?
MR. WILKINSON-I would say, out of the cleared area, probably about half of the cleared
area, or two-thirds of the cleared area.
MR. SEGULJIC-It’s the only spot I know of in that entire area like that, that has that much
water.
MR. WILKINSON-Again, it’s because of the clearing that occurred and the activity of
disturbing that and getting down near that rock elevation. Yet another reason why, if you
look at the contours and the elevations that I propose, they’re higher by about two feet
from where that ground is now.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay, because you also state in your plan that the depth to groundwater
is about six inches.
MR. WILKINSON-That’s correct. Before it was cleared, that was what the depth was at
the lowest point, but once it was cleared and disturbed, it’s different.
MR. SEGULJIC-Well, there’s a lot of water on that site. On your stormwater basins
you’re saying are going down .9 inches.
MR. WILKINSON-.9 feet depth, total depth.
MR. SEGULJIC-But getting back to the six inches, you say the maximum depth of these
depressions, when you’re speaking about the stormwater basins, you’re saying are going
to be six inches.
MR. WILKINSON-Say that again?
MR. SEGULJIC-Your stormwater plan says the maximum depth of these depressions,
referring to the stormwater basins, is six inches.
MR. WILKINSON-That’s the maximum depth of water within those basins. The total
depth of the actual area is .9 feet.
MR. SEGULJIC-Well, it says the maximum depth of these depressions is six inches, due
to high groundwater encountered. That indicates to me you can only dig down six
inches.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. WILKINSON-Correct, and still maintain the separation between the bottom of that
and seasonal high groundwater, and again, I’m also, the site is also somewhat elevated
from where you see it now, based on the contours that I show as proposed contours that
I show as proposed contours. So that those stormwater basins are less than six inches
below the existing soil. So they’re kind of built up around it a little bit, and then.
MR. SEGULJIC-But that’s what I was getting at. You’re calling for build up around these,
but I don’t see that on your plan.
MR. WILKINSON-Correct, that’s what the contours indicate.
MR. SEGULJIC-I see it written in your stormwater plan. Not from what I see. I’m not
seeing that on this plan.
MR. WILKINSON-Okay.
MR. SEGULJIC-I just think, it seems like you should have a cross section across that.
Now let’s talk about the septic for a minute.
MR. WILKINSON-Sure.
MR. SEGULJIC-Now as I read the Code, you should have at least two test pits in your
septic area, and as I look at your plan, you have one on the site, unless I’m missing
something.
MR. WILKINSON-Well, there are, there’s been four test pits done. Some are not shown.
MR. SEGULJIC-I only see one.
MR. WILKINSON-That’s what I’m saying. Some are not shown. I inadvertently left them
off. My mistake.
MR. SEGULJIC-All right. Well, I’d like to see those before I can approve anything.
MR. WILKINSON-Sure, not a problem.
th
MR. SEGULJIC-Your plan also states that the test pits were dug on July 12.
MR. WILKINSON-Correct.
MR. SEGULJIC-And you look at the Code, it says, May, June, I think it’s May or June. I
forget the exact date.
MR. WILKINSON-Dan Ryan from VISION Engineering witnessed those test pits.
MR. SEGULJIC-March, April, May or June.
MRS. BRUNO-As long as he’s there, it’s all right.
MR. SEGULJIC-Well, that’s the recommended procedure.
MR. WILKINSON-That’s correct, and we went in front of the Board of Health on this
particular project and got approval to do it out of season and Dan Ryan witnessed the
test.
MR. SEGULJIC-And got approval to do it out of season?
MR. WILKINSON-Yes, and that was the stipulation, that we could do it as long as they
were witnessed by VISION Engineering, and he did.
MR. SEGULJIC-Once again, I’m just kind of surprised that your test pit indicates down to
a depth of 68 inches, no water was encountered.
MR. WILKINSON-That’s correct.
MR. SEGULJIC-However, as you indicated, there’s a lot of standing water on site.
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MR. WILKINSON-That’s correct. Because the difference in the location, there is a knob,
in the middle of the site where it was cleared, there’s a knob of high rock, and the test
pits were done outside of that knob where the soil was, and apparently, and you know as
well as I do, from the experience on this Board, that rock can be in one place, and then
five feet, you can move five feet and it drops 30 feet for all anybody knows, but that’s
why we did a number of test pits and the test pit data that was show is on the areas that
are outside of that high rock.
MR. SIPP-But you do have mottling at 30 inches.
MR. WILKINSON-Correct. That was our boundary condition.
MR. SEGULJIC-All the more reason why I’d like to see that test pit information.
MR. WILKINSON-Sure. Again, it was inadvertently left off.
MR. SEGULJIC-And then your grading notes on the first sheet you state that contractor
shall provide dust and erosion control in accordance with New York State Guidelines for
Urban Erosion and Sediment Control Section 147-10. What exactly does that mean?
What is the contractor going to do?
MR. WILKINSON-What all contractors do. They try to prevent dust and sediment from
leaving the site under the law, and that’s the DEC law, and again, the stabilized
construction entrance that’s shown is the first step in making sure nothing leaves the
site. As far as dust control goes, there are a number of methods to do it. You can use
calcium. You can use other additives. You can use water. You can use whatever the
contractor deems necessary that’s under the guidelines of New York State to try to
eliminate dust. On this particular site, I don’t believe it’s going to be an issue. That’s a
standard note that I put on to make sure the contractor is well aware that there is a
regulation that is there for not only the sediment from rainwater but also dust is included
in that law. So it’s really to protect me and to protect the Town to say, hey, I told you it
needed to be done, so it’s got to be done.
MR. SEGULJIC-And what I’m getting at, aren’t there special conditions if you’re within
500 feet of a water body?
MR. WILKINSON-We’re not within 500 feet of a water body.
MR. SEGULJIC-Your stormwater plan says you’re within150 feet of a wetland.
MR. WILKINSON-Are you considering a wetland a water body?
MR. SEGULJIC-Not me, the Town does. A New York State DEC wetland exists further
south approximately 150 feet off site.
MR. WILKINSON-That’s correct, approximately. It could be 300 for all I know.
MR. SEGULJIC-Within 500 feet of the mean high water mark of any lake, pond, river,
stream, wetland.
MR. WILKINSON-Okay.
MR. SEGULJIC-That’s a very important provision that you did not put on the plan.
MR. WILKINSON-Sure it is, and again, my stipulation on this site is due to a lot of the
wetness and stuff that you found on the site, dust is not going to be an issue.
MR. SEGULJIC-I’m not concerned about dust.
MR. WILKINSON-Okay. What are you concerned about?
MR. SEGULJIC-Runoff into Lake George.
MR. WILKINSON-That’s why there’s silt fence protection, all the way around this. If you
look on the plan, it is a sediment control plan, sediment controls are on there, and they
conform to New York State DEC.
MR. SEGULJIC-I’ve seen a lot of silt fences out there that are failing.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. WILKINSON-Because they’re not installed properly.
MR. SEGULJIC-There’s one major debacle right now on Lake George, and I’m sure
you’re aware of that.
MR. WILKINSON-I’m aware of a few, not just in this Town.
MR. SEGULJIC-My point is that you just have 147-10, but you don’t have any
clarification as to what has to happen on site.
MR. WILKINSON-I certainly do, and that’s part of the comment.
MR. SEGULJIC-All right. Excuse me. Let’s discuss this. 147-10, C-2, what does that
state?
MR. WILKINSON-I don’t have it in front of me. Can you read it for me, please?
MR. SEGULJIC-How are we going to a contractor? It says within 500 feet of the mean
high water mark of any lake, pond, river, stream, or wetland, no land area, including
areas stockpiled with earthen materials, which have been cleared, may made or left
devoid of growing vegetation for more than 24 hours without protective covering securely
placed over the entire area and/or erosion control measures in place, and you’re going to
say the silt fences.
MR. WILKINSON-No, that doesn’t cover that note. That is certainly, I thank you for
bringing that to my attention, because those are notes that I need to add to this plan, and
I will certainly do that.
MR. SEGULJIC-Correct, acceptable protective coverings include natural mulch of a
depth of two inches, rock riprap, non-degradable materials such as plastic or canvas
covering or impervious structures.
MR. WILKINSON-That’s correct.
MR. SEGULJIC-I think that’s the way we can prevent a lot of these debacles.
MR. WILKINSON-I’d be more than happy to add that note to the plan, and I thank you for
bringing that to my attention.
MR. SEGULJIC-I mean, look at 147 and what it says, and I’d like to see that on the plan,
so when the contractor’s out there, they know what they have to do, and when our Code
Enforcement goes out there, they know what they’re looking at.
MR. WILKINSON-Not a problem, and that’s one of the things that, in VISION
Engineering comments, he specifically asked for the construction sequencing, and part
of that sequencing is also knowing what’s going on, and I can certainly add those Critical
Environmental Area notes that you’re talking about. I will definitely add those to the plan.
I appreciate that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, because Comment Number Seven talks about that.
MR. WILKINSON-Yes, and I appreciate that.
MR. SEGULJIC-When you get in a Critical Environmental Area.
MR. WILKINSON-Yes, there’s different rules, and I appreciate that.
MR. SEGULJIC-My antenna goes up. I mean, it’s designated by the State of New York
and the Town of Queensbury.
MR. WILKINSON-And I agree. I agree. They’ll be on the plan.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay, but spell it out. I mean, for example, on the plans you also state
that if you’re going to use a grinder pump, increase the septic tank by 250 gallons.
MR. WILKINSON-And seven square feet.
MR. SEGULJIC-But you didn’t put seven square feet on the plan.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. WILKINSON-It’s not in my standard notes?
MR. SEGULJIC-It’s not in your standard notes.
MR. WILKINSON-Then I used the wrong ones. I apologize for that.
MR. SEGULJIC-But I would also say there should be enough communication between
the applicant and yourself as to whether they’re going to use a grinder pump, and I’ll bet
you they will.
MR. WILKINSON-On this one I told them they can’t.
MR. SEGULJIC-Then we should take that note off and say no grinder pump will be
installed.
MR. WILKINSON-Certainly, I can change that.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay. Thank you.
MR. SIPP-All right. Continuing on with 147-10, Number Three, any area which has
natural vegetation cover, either partially or wholly cleared, removed, must be re-
vegetated within 10 days. All right, and re-seeding with an annual or perennial cover
crop.
MR. WILKINSON-Correct.
MR. SIPP-And be part of that, the planting of native woody or herbaceous vegetation
accompanied by placement of shore mulch, sufficient to control erosion while plantings
are becoming established.
MR. WILKINSON-Right. That’s a note that will certainly be added, along with Mr.
Seguljic’s comment as well. I’ll take that whole Section and make sure I read it
thoroughly and add those notes to make sure that it’s clear what the contractor has to do
to comply with that Section of the Code, and I agree with that. That’s a very good
comment.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Any other questions, comments from the Board?
MR. FORD-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Mr. Ford?
MR. FORD-If you’ve addressed this before, then I apologize, but.
MR. WILKINSON-I may or may not have. It’s been a couple of months since we’ve been
here.
MR. FORD-The stormwater basin, and the weir, and the swale, could you please
address the design that takes that swale directly toward the end of your leach field
laterals, as opposed to out to the north, as coming to the south?
MR. WILKINSON-Well, there’s two things going on there. Number One is when I design,
I design to try to follow the natural flow paths that already exist, and that’s generally
where the water’s flowing now. So I’m trying to utilize that to my advantage. As far as
looking like it’s going towards the ends of the laterals, that area, because it’s a shallow
system, because of our constraints to seasonal high groundwater mottling, there’s
actually some fill that has to be placed above that, so it actually becomes a little higher
than the natural ground, and it creates its own swale along the toe of the slope, per se,
and just helps keep the water moving along. It doesn’t get to the actual, to the laterals.
The second comment on that is, that area is the area in question that the contours got,
the existing contours that were provided to me, actually I measured about 20% and Dan
Ryan said they were about 30%. I have to move that septic area anyway to make sure
that it conforms to the less than 10%. So by moving that, I’ll get it out of the way.
MR. FORD-It’ll be further away from the swale.
MR. WILKINSON-It’ll be further away from that, but I also have to watch the one to the
southwest side to make sure I keep further away from that as well. So it’s kind of a play
it in between there and make it work.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. FORD-Interesting balancing act.
MR. WILKINSON-And make sure that I’m within, that the test holes that we did are also
shown on there, so that when I move that system again, it will be, it’ll have the two test
holes that I know are there that just didn’t get plotted. They’ll still be within that system
as well.
MR. FORD-Thank you.
MR. WILKINSON-It’s just a short area that reaches that steeper slope, and I think it was
because there was some activity going around, it was pushed that way, but that isn’t the
way it was naturally occurring in that area.
MR. FORD-By placing those laterals in another location, you’re going to address my
concern there.
MR. WILKINSON-Yes. I’ll move those away from that.
MR. FORD-Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Any other questions from the Board?
MR. SEGULJIC-Back to the stormwater basins, and the two foot differential requirement.
MR. WILKINSON-Two foot differential requirement.
MR. SEGULJIC-Under 147. I believe there’s a, infiltration devices shall be designed
such that the bottom of the system will be a minimum of two feet above the seasonal
high water.
MR. WILKINSON-Correct. That’s why I’m only going six inches into the existing ground.
MR. SEGULJIC-But do you have test pits there?
MR. WILKINSON-There’s one right next to it. I can certainly, you know, do more if you
feel that it’s necessary.
MR. SEGULJIC-Well, given you’re in a Critical Environmental Area, it’s very important
that we get this right.
MR. WILKINSON-I don’t disagree with you.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay.
MR. WILKINSON-If you want test pits, then just mandate that there has to be test pits
there prior to construction, I’m hoping, because I’m hoping to walk away tonight with an
approval.
MR. SEGULJIC-All right. Personally I’d like to see them, before I grant approval,
because what if you can’t get it? Then what do we do?
MR. WILKINSON-I know I can, because I walked around on that site, and I was all over
that site, and not only with the backhoe, but with a shovel to make sure. That’s part of
what I do, personally, to design. I don’t design for my office. I design for the field.
MR. SEGULJIC-And I can appreciate that.
MR. WILKINSON-Yes.
MR. SEGULJIC-And you’re a good engineer, and all other wonderful stuff, but there’s a
lot of water, standing water on that site.
MR. WILKINSON-And I don’t disagree, and it’s really mainly because of that area that’s
cleared is one almost solid mass of rock, and then it drops off just to the south of that
where the slope is, and there’s no rock further south of that. That’s mainly the reason,
the clearing and the fact that the rock is higher, and a lot of the soil has been taken off of
that as well. Any other questions, Tom?
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. SEGULJIC-No, I’m all set for now. Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Other Board members? We do have a public hearing scheduled. Is
there anyone in the audience that wanted to address the Board on this application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
KATHY BOZONY
MS. BOZONY-Good evening. Kathy Bozony, Lake George Water Keeper. I was not
aware that the topos had been submitted. I had not seen them. So the first comment on
this page is that also I’m not familiar with why the site was cleared ahead of time and
why it looks the way it does. I did see all the standing water there. It’s been there for a
long time. A lot of ledge rock there. A couple of the concerns I’m going to go through
right now with this. Proposed stormwater management plan utilizes the existing wooded
swale near 9L for infiltration, and this swale has more than a foot of standing water in it,
which should indicate that infiltration rate less than the four inches rate per hour used in
the calculations will result in increased runoff volumes and rates. There’s standing water
and ledge rock present in the area of the proposed Pond No. Three, as well as the house
location. So I don’t know if there’s going to be proposed blasting or there’s evidence of
erosion and sedimentation from the disturbed area of the site, and this is before any
construction is, has even begun, and you can see it running off. I’m not sure if the
Board’s aware there’s a lot of fill that’s been brought in that site, two to three feet on the
north side, and you’ve got quite an erosion, sediment running down that. I don’t have all
the details of the plans that you have. I was missing those, but I look at this site and I
see management of stormwater is going to be very difficult. Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, sir.
DON KRUGER
MR. KRUGER-My name is Don Kruger and I live on Glen Lake. We did the site work up
there, and the part that he was talking about where the water is ponding is total ledge
rock, which is where we’re going to put the footings for the house. In all fairness to
Clark, we did the site work a year ago, and we thought that we were going to be
progressing ahead, but the Town felt it was, it had to go for a major environmental
review. They had all promises of a building permit. So the thing has been tied up for a
year. Plus I believe Mr. Laforte has experienced some financial reverses, apparently,
but we want to go ahead with the project now, and as far as where you see that water
sitting there, it’s in a dish and ledge rock. That water’s not going to drain out of there, but
once the footings are in, that gets cleared off, the footings are in, the house gets built, we
fill around it. Where she mentioned where the fill dirt came in, that’s for the septic
system area, we had to import fill dirt there. There’s over 50 loads of dirt that’s been
imported there for the septic area for that.
MRS. BRUNO-Do you know if they’re intending to blast to get those footers in?
MR. WILKINSON-Slab on grade.
MR. KRUGER-You really don’t have to blast to put footings in.
MRS. BRUNO-Right. Are you going to pin to the ledge rock?
MR. KRUGER-They’ll be pinned to the rock, yes. Queensbury Code. Yes.
MRS. BRUNO-Okay.
MR. KRUGER-It’ll have to be cleaned off. There’s all mud there now, and in all fairness,
I mean, it’s been a year. I mean, anything, the fences I’m sure have fallen down. Any
other questions?
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Anyone else?
MR. OBORNE-Mr. Chairman, I have something from a neighbor across the street.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. OBORNE-“My name is Frank Munoff, and I reside at 2626 Route 9L in Queensbury,
directly across from 2609 Route 9L, the address of tonight’s applicant, Laforte
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
Construction. I want to be a good neighbor, but I am somewhat concerned as to the size
of this house in relation to the low lands it’s being built on. Since there are two
driveways, I am to assume that this is just one of the houses that is going to be built
there. If another one that size is in the plans, it sure will change things even more. Once
again, I want to be a good neighbor and trust that you, the Board, will oversee the right
stewardship of this property. The fact that the applicant has not followed any of the rules
you had set forth previously leads me to believe that the environment is not as much of a
concern to them as it should be. I’m also concerned about the Town of Queensbury
sending me notification of something that has already taken place without your prior
knowledge by the applicant. Were there any penalties involved for such actions?
Perhaps no rules were broken. I don’t know. In conclusion, I will support your findings
on this matter, but I am really quite skeptical because of the applicant’s previous actions
in relation to the rules set forth by the Town of Queensbury. Respectfully Yours, Frank J.
Munoff”
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Any other written comments?
MR. OBORNE-That’s it.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Any final questions for the applicant? What’s the feeling of the
Board?
MR. SEGULJIC-Table it for more information.
MR. SIPP-We need more information.
MRS. BRUNO-I think everything needs to be smoothed out.
MR. WILKINSON-Particularly?
MRS. BRUNO-Well, just everything that we’ve talked about today that you’ve agreed you
could clarify, I think we need to see that it’s been, it’s in black and white.
MR. WILKINSON-Certainly. That’s certainly your discretion.
MR. SEGULJIC-In particular the swale details.
MR. WILKINSON-Are you going to make a motion so that it’s in there? Could you,
please?
MR. SEGULJIC-Yes. What I have, I’d like to see details on the swales, additional, once
again, as I read the Code, you have to have at least two test pits in this septic area, and
you indicated you have four.
MR. WILKINSON-Well, there are four total. I’ll make sure that.
MR. FORD-On the site.
MR. WILKINSON-Absolutely.
MR. SEGULJIC-I’m going to say clarify the requirements of 147. I believe you know, I
mean, I don’t want a note like 147-10. There’s a lot to that. Especially within the 500
feet of a wetland or a surface water as I pointed out to you, you are.
MR. WILKINSON-And I believe there’s a couple of projects that I’ve been involved in that
we were very specific on those notes, and I’ll use those as a guide and certainly include
those.
MR. SEGULJIC-I mean, in this world of cut and paste.
MR. WILKINSON-Yes. No, no, no. I agree.
MR. SEGULJIC-And installation of test pits in all the stormwater management basins.
Has anybody got anything else?
MRS. BRUNO-I do.
MR. WILKINSON-You want all of 147, did you say? 147-10?
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. SEGULJIC-Excuse me, all of 147, and what’s relevant to this particular site, and I’ll
be watching.
MR. WILKINSON-You always do, Tom.
MR. SIPP-Is that fill that was brought in for the septic area, is that going to remain there
all winter?
MR. WILKINSON-I’m not sure exactly where it is. I’ll have to meet with the contractor
and make sure, and I want to, if it’s going to remain over the winter before it gets
constructed, I want to put it where the septic system’s going to go and have it sit there.
MR. SEGULJIC-You may have to seed it, too.
MR. SIPP-Seed it.
MR. WILKINSON-Absolutely. Is that where you were headed is the sediment control
part of it?
MR. SIPP-Yes. If it were going to stay by the roadside, it should be seeded. If you’re
going to move it to the septic area, it should be seeded.
MR. WILKINSON-Yes, and again, the notes that Tom’s referring to will have all that
detail in there, you know, the 24 hour note as well as the greater than two weeks note,
get seeded.
MRS. BRUNO-I have a simple thing, and that is that you ensure, from your clients, about
the gutters, whether it is for sure a drip edge or a gutter system.
MR. WILKINSON-I can pull the house plans on that, see what’s on there. They’re
downstairs.
MRS. BRUNO-I’m trying to remember them, in the back of my mind, I’m not, I don’t recall
myself.
MR. HUNSINGER-I guess the only other item is to address the remaining engineering
concerns that are previously addressed in these comments.
MR. WILKINSON-Okay. Is it possible, in this Board’s mind, to get back on next month’s
agenda? I know that’s not usual, but we’re trying to get moving forward with this house
for a number of reasons, one of which is the letter that I addressed to you regarding the
health of one of the owners, the mother of the guy that’s doing the application, Laforte,
and she’s.
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MR. FORD-It might be hard to make the August 15 deadline.
MR. WILKINSON-Well, that’s the impossible part, but that’s why I’m kind of asking the
Board, is that something that you would be amenable to? I’m asking and I’m asking it of
the Board, and give me a specific deadline and I’ll have it done.
MR. HUNSINGER-I mean, where we run into trouble is where, you know, we have to
post the agenda.
MR. WILKINSON-Correct.
MR. HUNSINGER-And that’s before the submission deadline.
MR. WILKINSON-I know.
MR. HUNSINGER-And then we’re in trouble. I mean, how quickly can you turn this
around?
MR. WILKINSON-Everything except the test pits I can have done in like two days. The
test pits I’ve got to talk with the contractor and see if we can coordinate, and I also, when
I’m up there, I’m always going to have Dan Ryan there so he can ensure that he’s
looking after it for the Town as well, and any test pit I always call Dan and let him know
what I’m doing.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. I also don’t know how many items are on the agenda for
October.
MR. WILKINSON-Again, I’m asking on behalf of my client, and just presenting it to the
Board.
MR. HUNSINGER-Or September, yes.
MR. WILKINSON-It’s up to you guys.
MR. HUNSINGER-Do you have any sense, yet, Keith, how many projects we have for
September? Because one of the comments I made to Craig, when we were finalizing the
agenda for August, was if we need to consider, you know, loading up a meeting or
having an additional meeting in September, I’d rather do that than, because, you know,
there was discussion about loading up the meetings in August, which I didn’t want to do.
MR. OBORNE-Right. As it stands now, we have 22 new applicants that have made it
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prior to the 15. So already we have to decide to bump, obviously, what, 10, 8, 8 or 10,
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and that’s not including what you’re going to, you already have tabled to September 16,
I believe it is, five applicants, hence why in September you can’t really table anything to
the first meeting. You have to do it to the second meeting.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. OBORNE-And again, yes, 22 applicants. Yes, we got crushed. If you are
considering tabling Clark or Laforte, I highly suggest the second meeting in September, if
you are.
MR. WILKINSON-I’m asking on behalf of the applicant.
MR. FORD-I don’t know how we can bump those people that are already in the pipeline,
with that number of applicants, unless we go to a third meeting.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, we might want to do a third meeting out of necessity anyway.
Maybe for the next meeting you can look and see when the room might be available.
Oftentimes we’ll do it on a Thursday, either the same, you know, the same week as one
of the other regular meetings.
MRS. BRUNO-You’re saying in September, a third meeting?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, for September.
MR. OBORNE-We’re going to start finalizing the agenda on Thursday. So we’re going to
be bumping people, probably making at least a temporary list on Thursday, we’ll be
going through that, and obviously the agenda won’t be finalized until some time later
after that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. OBORNE-I think it’s the will of the Board, at this point, if you want to do that, Mr.
Chairman. I can just tell you we’re crushed right now, for lack of a better term.
MR. HUNSINGER-Other comments from the Board?
MR. TRAVER-Did I understand there’s discussion of having a third meeting?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. TRAVER-Well, that would certainly alleviate some of the scheduling concern. I
know we’ve had to do that from time to time.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. So do we want to table this project to, well, it would either have
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to be the 23 of September or we’d have to wait until October 21.
MR. TRAVER-Well, I think it’s going to depend on whether or not we’re able to do a third
meeting.
MR. KREBS-Right.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
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MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Well, let’s table this until September 23, then.
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MR. SEGULJIC-September 23?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. Can you have everything in by Friday?
MR. WILKINSON-This Friday?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. You said two days.
MR. WILKINSON-The answer is yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Because if you don’t, then it’s going to be.
MR. WILKINSON-Tabled for another meeting, until October.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, until October.
MR. WILKINSON-How about Monday instead of Friday? That would help me a lot,
because I know I’ve got two other things that I have to get done for Friday right now in
front of me.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, that would be okay.
MR. SEGULJIC-Excuse me, what’s the date, is that Monday, then?
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MR. HUNSINGER-It would be August 25. That would be okay, because it’s still before
the final agenda meeting.
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MR. SEGULJIC-Okay. So we’re going to table it to the September 23 meeting with
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submission of materials by August 25. Okay.
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 20-2008 LA FORTE CONSTRUCTION,
Introduced by Thomas Seguljic who moved for its adoption, seconded by Donald Sipp:
Tabled to the September 23, 2008 meeting with submission of materials by August 25,
2008. The additional information the Board is requesting includes provide swale
location and details. Provide additional test pit information. Clarify requirements of 147
on plans. Installation of test pits and collection of soil data in areas of stormwater
management basins. Clarify roof drainage. Clarify the garbage grinder, if it will be
present or not, and address engineering comments.
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Duly adopted this 19 day of August, 2008, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Sipp, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Ford, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Traver, Mrs. Bruno,
Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you.
MR. WILKINSON-Thanks for your time.
MR. HUNSINGER-I hate to push the envelope on this one, but I think it’s incumbent
upon us to get this cleaned up before the winter and give the applicant time to clean the
site up before the winter. That’s why I want to push it forward.
SITE PLAN NO. 27-2008 SEQR TYPE UNLISTED TOM & DUSTY PUTNAM
AGENT(S) DENNIS MAC ELROY OWNER(S) SAME ZONING WR-3A LOCATION
21 WILD TURKEY LANE APPLICANT PROPOSES ADDITION OF 450 SQ. FT. OF
LIVING SPACE, NEW 2 CAR GARAGE & NEW WASTEWATER SYSTEM. PLANNING
BOARD REVIEW IS REQUIRED FOR ANY HARD SURFACING WITHIN 50 FEET OF A
SHORELINE AND FOR THE EXPANSION OF A NON-CONFORMING STRUCTURE IN
A CEA. ALSO, REVIEW IS REQUIRED AS THE PROJECT HAS BEEN CLASSIFIED
AS A MAJOR STORMWATER PROJECT. CROSS REFERENCE AV 36-08 WARREN
CO. PLANNING 6/11/08 APA/DEC/CEA APA, LAKE GEORGE CEA LOT SIZE 1.01
ACRES TAX MAP NO. 239.15-1-7 SECTION 179-9-030; CHAPTER 147B
DENNIS MAC ELROY, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. HUNSINGER-Whenever you’re ready, Keith, summarize Staff Notes, please.
MR. OBORNE-Site Plan No. 27-2008. Note: This application was tabled to this date in
order for the applicant to submit updated plans by July 24, 2008 to include engineering
notes. This application has been reviewed by Staff for completeness. Applicant: Tom
and Dusty Putnam. Requested action: Planning Board, Site Plan Review required for a
major stormwater project per 147-8, and the expansion of a non-conforming structure per
179-13-010 F. Location: 21 Wild Turkey Lane Existing Zoning is Waterfront Residential
Three Acre. The application is a SEQRA Type II. Parcel History, this had an Area
Variance in ’08 for shoreline setback relief, which was approved by the Zoning Board of
Appeals. Project Description: The applicant proposes to remove a 220 square foot
screened porch and 450 square feet of asphalt. The applicant also proposes to
construct a 620 square foot garage, a 440 square foot addition and 180 square foot
foyer/covered porch. Furthermore, a new wastewater system is proposed to be installed,
as the project has been classified a Major Project per 179-8 by the Zoning Administrator.
The stormwater management and erosion controls are part of this project. Staff
comments. As mentioned in the project description, this project is considered a Major
Project. The applicant proposes to install stormwater infiltration devices within 100 feet
of the shoreline which requires variance. The Planning Board previously made a
recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals concerning this issue. The Planning
Board recommendation states that it has no issue with the infiltration device’s proposed
location, provided that the stormwater management meets the requirements of Chapter
147 of the Town Code. The Zoning Board approved the Area Variance which concerned
the infiltration device as proposed, as well as relief for the shoreline setback. Proposed
stormwater management plans appear to be an improvement to the property since no
stormwater plan currently exists. The proposed expansion would have minimal effect on
the neighborhood as most houses are well buffered. Further, the house proximity is
down slope at approximately 275 feet from State Route 9L. Staff recommends any
spoils from the project be immediately stabilized or removed, due to the runoff from the
adjoining slopes. This recommendation may need to be given more priority than
currently noted due to the slopes present and proximity of the shoreline. This proposed
action is located in a Critical Environmental Area. What follows is my site plan review,
which I assume the Planning Board has reviewed.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Good evening.
MR. MAC ELROY-Hello. I’m Dennis MacElroy with Environmental Design, with
applicant and owner Tom Putnam and Project Manager Don Schermerhorn. As
indicated, we were here at the July meeting. At that time, Dan Ryan had issued a
comment letter which we had responded to, but because of the timing of submittals and
what not, the Board hadn’t had the opportunity to have those plans, nor had Dan issued
a formal response to those comments. That has happened. We did provide the Board
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with the revised copies by July 24. We were placed on this agenda. Thank you for that,
and Dan has subsequently issued a letter which I presume is in your file, and his
indication is that he’s satisfied the responses that we’ve provided to his comments.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Questions, comments from Board members?
MR. SEGULJIC-Overall I think it’s great what you’re going to do. My big concern
nowadays is the, you know, it rained heavy last night, and if your site is open, you’re
going to have a lot of sediment running into the lake, and you did take the notes out of
the Code, but one of the things I think we need to clarify here is that either under 147-10,
Erosion Control Measures, under C-2 I believe it is, within 500 feet of a water body,
which you are, it says that either you are going to, any area that’s devoid of vegetation,
the way the Code reads, it says, left devoid of growing vegetations for more than 24
hours without a protective covering securely placed over the entire area, and/or erosion
control measures. Which one are you going to do?
MR. MAC ELROY-Well, there’s erosion control measures that are on the plan, silt
fencing that’s provided on the down gradient side of the site, of any disturbed area.
MR. SEGULJIC-So you’re not going to do the protective coverings?
MR. MAC ELROY-That may happen as well.
MR. SEGULJIC-Well, what’s going to be the trigger to decide that?
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. MAC ELROY-The particular application that comes up. If it’s a site that there’s
disturbance and earth is disturbed and it won’t be reactivated for a period of time, then
there’d be temporary erosion control measures such as temporary seeding, you put
some rye grass on that to re-establish some vegetation in that area.
MR. SEGULJIC-No, it has to have a cover. The way the Code reads it has to have a
cover, two inches of mulch, plastic cover, something like that. That’s what the Code
says. I realize I’m breaking new ground. People have not followed this Code, and I’m
just highlighting that. I’m not, as I always say, I’m not making any of this up.
MR. MAC ELROY-Well, there will certainly be erosion control measures in place, such
as the down gradient siltation barriers, and if that is an and/or situation, then that is in
place.
MR. SEGULJIC-So who makes that decision?
MR. MAC ELROY-Well, the siltation barrier is on the plan.
MR. SEGULJIC-Right.
MR. MAC ELROY-And it is, would be a requirement of the site before any disturbance
takes place.
MR. SEGULJIC-Right, and I have no problem with the siltation controls, I do have a lot of
problems with siltation controls. I can go around the lake, right now, and point out to you
a lot of silt fences that have wind blowing under them. To me it’s very important you put
the protective cover over the vegetation. It says and/or. You’re in a Critical
Environmental Area. I would like to see you, you know, slash out the, see, if I was doing
it, what I would have done is protective covering securely placed over the entire area, get
rid of the and/or, measures, because you already have these sediment measures there.
Well, I take that back. I’d take out the or and leave the and. How do we enforce that
when you have an and/or? Does that mean if you have any turbid released into the lake
you’re in violation of an EPA surface water standard, then?
MR. MAC ELROY-If there is, potentially.
MR. SEGULJIC-Wouldn’t you want to prevent that?
MR. MAC ELROY-Certainly.
MR. SEGULJIC-So, I mean, to me, it would make sense you strike out the or, and have it
as an and.
MR. MAC ELROY-Okay. I placed the regulations on the plan as suggested, and we’ve
done that. Now should we modify the regulation?
MR. SEGULJIC-It says and/or. Who’s going to make that decision as to what’s going to
get done out there?
MR. MAC ELROY-Well, I mean, if we get very specific, then Don, being the construction
manager, will be.
MR. SEGULJIC-How does the Town of Queensbury enforce that, then?
MR. MAC ELROY-Of whether there’s siltation barriers on site?
MR. SEGULJIC-Well, it says and/or, protective coverings and/or.
MR. MAC ELROY-Well, would having a siltation barrier, down gradient of the disturbed
area, satisfy the requirements of the regulation?
MR. SEGULJIC-Not me. I can bring you to a site in Lake George right now that they
have sedimentation, they have silt fences. They’ve failed miserably. They had to go out
and dredge the lake, and I’m sure you’re aware of that site.
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes, I am.
MR. SEGULJIC-Are you?
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes, I am.
MR. SEGULJIC-They had silt fences up. It failed didn’t it?
MR. MAC ELROY-Right, and we did have a pretty unique storm situation.
MR. SEGULJIC-It doesn’t matter.
MR. MAC ELROY-I understand it doesn’t matter, because it did happen, but that was not
the intent of the design. It was not the intent of the contractor, and I don’t want to get off
the subject on that, but we’ve provided that on there. If there’s a way that we should
improve on that or if, by Don being here and the owner being here, we can, you know,
clarify that, or.
MR. SEGULJIC-Does the applicant understand what I’m getting at there?
DON SCHERMERHORN
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Yes, certainly. I think the Code is unclear, if there’s an and/or.
MR. SEGULJIC-So as a Town, when the enforcement goes out, he has to know what it
is, and to have an and/or, I can see it right now. You’re going to come back and, you
have siltation fences in place, you’re in compliance. That’s the way it would play out, but
silt fences have a tendency to fail, and once again, I can bring you to several sites to
prove that to you. So it’s not my decision here, it’s the Board’s decision. I guess, how
does the Board?
MR. KREBS-The problem, Tom, is that you’re asking the applicant to change the
Ordinance, okay.
MR. SEGULJIC-No.
MR. KREBS-Yes, you are, because it says and/or.
MR. SEGULJIC-I’m asking him to make a choice.
MR. KREBS-You’re asking him to make a choice, but you’re saying that you want them
to change the Ordinance so that our Code Enforcement Officers will know what they’re
doing when they go there. I agree with principle. I don’t think it’s their responsibility to
change the Code. They are providing an and/or situation.
MR. SEGULJIC-No. For example, the Code says that you can add a garbage grinder,
but you have to increase your septic tank by 250 gallons and 7 square feet in area, I
believe. It doesn’t mean everybody has to do that. Either they do it or they don’t. They
have a choice.
MR. KREBS-They do it if they have a garbage grinder. They have to do it. It’s very
specific.
MR. SEGULJIC-Right, and what this says, if you have open area, it’s and/or.
MRS. BRUNO-Tom, what’s the number exactly? I can’t find it and I want to follow.
MR. SEGULJIC-147-10 C(2).
MR. FORD-Did we ask them to become compliant with that Code by putting that on the
plan? They’ve complied with that request. They’re ready to make a modification in that,
at our request again. Correct? If he wants to eliminate, Mr. Seguljic wants to eliminate
the or, are you willing to do that?
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes. I guess that, if that adds to it, more gray area. I mean, what is
an area, then, that would constitute that type of covering, and which covering is
appropriate for that? I mean, I think that that’s a site specific situation, and if we can get
to, let’s see, you know, in this area, we’re going to disturb some new area where the
garage is going to be. So there’s going to be some adjacent section to be disturbed.
Now a certain amount of that may be rock. So how do we specifically treat that as
opposed to if it was raw earth?
MR. SEGULJIC-Well, rock would be okay. Raw earth isn’t, a soil is not.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. MAC ELROY-Understood, but I can’t tell you that that’s, you know, going to be rock
or raw earth or to what extent, because that hasn’t been constructed. Now, and I don’t
want to get too overly complicated with the thing. If, certainly there’s siltation barriers
that would be in place prior to disturbance, and I don’t know the timing of Bruce Frank’s
visit to the site, and when they break ground, and they see that siltation barriers are in
place and that they’re properly installed and properly toed into the ground, okay, that’s
the starting point. Then we do some disturbance, and that particular disturbance is going
to be, remain open for over 24 hours, so that there’s some sort of remedy or additional
action that you could take to mitigate or to lessen the vulnerability of that area. Is it
placing some mulch over an area that you’re going to excavate on Tuesday but you’re
not going to put a hard surface on or whatever until, you know, the following week. You
cover it with a tarp or cover it with mulch or, I mean, there’s a number of different steps
that they takes. Now, is that done, if that construction is done in, let’s just say
December, versus if it was done in April. I mean, that’s a different situation, and a
different level of vulnerability that requires attention of a different level. So I don’t want to
be, I don’t think it’s appropriate to be so specific that, yes, we’re going to do each and
every, because there’s the situation and then the timing that comes into play on that
decision. I’m not trying to be difficult.
MR. FORD-I was just trying to get at Tom’s concern, but you make a good explanation. I
concur with you.
MR. HUNSINGER-I mean, I understand Tom’s concern. I also agree with what Don’s
saying.
MR. SEGULJIC-If you’re going to leave an area open, as I read the Code, the stronger
option is you put mulch over it, you put plastic over it, something of that nature.
MR. MAC ELROY-Or you temporarily seed it with rye grass, and get that established.
MR. SEGULJIC-Something.
MR. MAC ELROY-Right.
MR. SEGULJIC-Instead of leaving these huge areas devoid of vegetation, and, in a
heavy rainstorm, your odds of it running off into the lake have increased dramatically.
TOM PUTNAM
MR. PUTNAM-But we would specify that, too, with our contractor, that that be so done.
That would be in the contract anyway.
MR. SEGULJIC-That areas that are going to be left?
MR. PUTNAM-No, that they would be seeded within 24.
MR. SEGULJIC-But once they’re open.
MR. PUTNAM-Or whatever’s needed to cover that area.
MR. SEGULJIC-So you’re saying that you would specify that, so areas.
MR. MAC ELROY-I think different situations, different timing warrant different actions.
MR. PUTNAM-Exactly.
MR. MAC ELROY-So I don’t know how you can.
MR. PUTNAM-I mean, if we have a two week forecast of rain, we better cover up right
away, and do a real good job of it.
MR. MAC ELROY-Certainly the owner wants to be compliant.
MR. PUTNAM-Absolutely.
MR. MAC ELROY-And to be a good steward of the site. Nobody’s sitting here intending
to.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. FORD-I think that’s indicated by the fact that they have put the Code on there.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, I mean, they put the Code right on the plan. I mean, I’m not sure
what else we can ask.
MR. SEGULJIC-Well, a clarification.
MR. MAC ELROY-It needs to be implemented, and that’s the key to anything. We can
sit here and.
MR. SEGULJIC-How are we going to let the contractor know?
MR. HUNSINGER-And I guess that was kind of my comment. We frequently make
comments about silt fences failing, but the question is, were they installed properly? I
mean, you have the proper detail here on Sheet S-5. At some point you’ve got to kind of
take a little leap of faith and assume that the contractor’s going to install it properly and
that it’s going to work correctly.
MR. MAC ELROY-And the responsible party, whether it’s in some cases simply a
homeowner, in other cases it may someone who’s a coordinator for that construction
activity, as in this case. That responsibility, that’s the contact person that the Town
would have on the site.
MR. HUNSINGER-And if the contact doesn’t install it correctly, then, you know, it’s his
liability.
MR. FORD-It’s on the project supervisor, on your shoulders, right.
MR. MAC ELROY-And that’s identified, it’s corrected. If there’s a situation where you’ve
got some disturbed area that’s not, you know, that looks vulnerable, hey, it would be a
good idea to cover that with mulch, or to cover it with plastic, or to, you know, put hay
bales around the base of that excavation pile, you know, there’s a number of different
things that have to be followed through, and if the applicant or the contractor isn’t doing
it, then, you know, they can be called out on it, but, no matter, I don’t want to be
argumentative. You can put all the words and pictures, whatever, on the drawings, and
the more you have, the better chance you have. I understand. I understand that
response, but, you know, ultimately there’s a responsibility that the plans that are put
forth and approved by this Board are followed through by the owners and their
representatives and the Town, you know, just by being the caretaker of this, has some
responsibility to monitor that to an extent. That’s the process we have now, is that the
Town’s representative will have a look see, periodically, or respond to neighbors, if
neighbors identify that there’s some issues.
MR. FORD-I believe there’s a reason that we look at applications individually, and one of
those reasons is so we can assess the organizational structure that is being brought to
bear to implement the Code. You’ve got the Code there. You’ve, in my opinion, got the
organizational structure that is going to allow you to make the right decisions, relative to
the Code that you’ve already got on the plan.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-If I may make a comment. I, personally, would not have taken
on this project unless the owners did say they wanted to do the right ting, and they’ve
given me a clear goal to be environmentally sensitive and follow the Code to detail, and
probably do a little more than that, and I would not have done it otherwise, unless I had
their support to do that. So, that’s just a comment.
MR. HUNSINGER-Any other questions or comments from the Board? Don?
MR. SIPP-In the Town Engineer’s report, additional site testing deep hole infiltration test
should be conducted on proposed drywell location to verify the depth, the depth to
impervious, and also to groundwater. You haven’t done this.
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes, we did.
MR. SIPP-You did?
MR. MAC ELROY-We’ve responded to it and he’s indicated his satisfaction with that.
MR. SIPP-Okay, then what about the distance to neighboring wells and or adjacent
parcels?
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. MAC ELROY-The same thing.
MR. SIPP-I see they draw the water out of the lake.
MR. MAC ELROY-Right.
MR. SIPP-All right. Now, in removing the covered porch and the site perc around the
existing building, you’re going to be disturbing some ground, right?
MR. MAC ELROY-Correct.
MR. SIPP-Now, is this going to be re-done by a professional landscaper and so forth?
Which means fertilizer, and I would like to see some.
MR. MAC ELROY-Well, I don’t that that necessarily means that.
MR. SIPP-Okay, then, fine, if they don’t, but if we keep this ground covered, and I
assume, not having seen this property, but between the retaining wall, which is north of
your stormwater system, and the lake, there’s a good size slope there, and I want to
make sure that nothing’s going to be traveling down that slope in the conditions that
we’ve had this Spring and summer.
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes. Well, there’s a good lawn area there, and besides the fact that
they don’t want to have to disturb it and re-establish it, it also serves a purpose and a
function. So that is an area that would be protected and that retaining wall kind of forms
this line of demarcation.
MR. SIPP-What is the height of that retaining wall?
MR. MAC ELROY-Well, it varies from two feet or so on the easterly end and a little more
height, probably in the range of six feet or so, on the westerly end, and actually there’s a
couple of them on the western end.
MR. SIPP-Is that walk going down to the lake solid?
MR. MAC ELROY-It is now, correct. Yes.
MR. SIPP-That slope, I’d be a little concerned about water running down that walkway
right into the lake.
MR. MAC ELROY-I want to say that on the stormwater plan, Sheet S-2, we’ve indicated
at the base there that we’re adding six foot length of infiltration trench that would capture
that as it gets to the base, or a suggestion to replace that with grass walk pavers. I think
the owner hadn’t made a decision about that, but that gives them the option. I think that
was discussed at our previous meeting, too, that maybe they should replace it with that,
and I think the owner will take that under consideration and see how that fits with things,
but there’s an option for either.
MR. SIPP-One more thing, on the garage area, the proposed garage, you’ve got a trench
in front of the garage doors to pick up the water coming down the driveway.
MR. MAC ELROY-You’re asking that question?
MR. SIPP-Yes. I assume that trench is there to, you’ve got a driveway which goes from,
well, just in the middle of the 350 to down to 345, five foot drop in thirty feet.
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes, the front of the garage slopes away from the garage down
toward the basin that’s, the driveway slopes away from the garage and to a point of a
catchment which then goes into the stormwater management system.
MR. SIPP-Yes. Now that trench follows along the west side of the garage?
MR. MAC ELROY-That’s a graded swale which then directs toward the drywell in front.
MR. SIPP-Is that picking up from roof gutters also?
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes, because it sheds from the roof pitch of the garage, so, yes,
technically, yes, it would.
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MR. SIPP-And that follows, now, with the proposed addition in the middle of that, is that
swale?
MR. MAC ELROY-The swale would work around that and be graded toward the drywell,
the open grate in the drywell.
MR. SIPP-Has all the roof been picked up, all the roof drainage picked up by gutters, or
is it drip?
MR. MAC ELROY-In that case it would be drip. There’s not gutters in that particular
section.
MR. SIPP-Well, I would not be averse to you looking at some plantings along that
shoreline, especially where that walk area is.
MR. SEGULJIC-They have some nice plantings along there now.
MR. HUNSINGER-Anything else?
MR. SEGULJIC-All right. I’m just going to take one more run at this. What would you
estimate your total disturbed area is going to be? Quick guesstimate.
MR. MAC ELROY-The total disturbed area, now this is a trick question, or a trick area.
The total disturbed area in terms of the stormwater regulation doesn’t include the septic
system, the septic system or the area of the stormwater management.
MR. SEGULJIC-Correct.
MR. MAC ELROY-Okay. So you’re probably in the, I don’t know, probably in the range
of five or six thousand square feet.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay. How much would a sheet of plastic, 2,000 square feet cost?
MR. SCHERMERHORN-About 20 by 100? About $27.
MR. SEGULJIC-That’s what we’re asking for. If there is a disturbed soil, put a piece of
plastic over it at the end of the day.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-I think what Dennis says is we’re already prepared to do that,
but it depends on the conditions at the time.
MR. SEGULJIC-Well, if you’re going to leave it open for more than 24 hours.
MR. MAC ELROY-If you leave it open more than 24 hours, which is what the condition in
the Ordinance. Is it feasible, certainly, to have areas of tarp. It’s not one big tarp,
obviously. You wouldn’t just plant it over the whole site, but you may use that in different
areas as part of your construction practices.
MR. SEGULJIC-I do a lot of environmental clean ups. At the end of the day you put
plastic over it. We don’t find it that tough. So is that something you think you could
agree to?
MR. SCHERMERHORN-I don’t see why not.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay. Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Anything else from the Board? We do have a public hearing
scheduled. Is there anyone in the audience who wanted to address the Board on this
project? Nobody. Any written comments, Keith?
MR. OBORNE-No, sir.
MR. HUNSINGER-What’s the feeling of the Board?
MR. SEGULJIC-I think you did a great job. We should move forward on it.
MR. FORD-Let’s proceed.
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MR. HUNSINGER-All right. I will close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. HUNSINGER-It is an Unlisted Action. I think they submitted a Short Form.
Whenever you’re ready, Tom.
MR. SEGULJIC-“Does the action exceed any Type I threshold in 6 NYCRR Part 617.4?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. FORD-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“Will the action receive coordinated review as provided for Unlisted
Actions in 6 NYCRR, Part 617.6?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. SIPP-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“Could the action result in any adverse effects associated with the
following: C1. Existing air quality, surface or ground water quality or quantity, noise
levels, existing traffic patterns, solid waste production or disposal, potential for erosion,
drainage or flooding problems?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. FORD-Yes.
MRS. BRUNO-Why don’t we say minor, but it will be dealt with?
MR. FORD-But I think it can be addressed and mitigated.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay.
MR. HUNSINGER-Could action result. Okay, yes, mitigated by stormwater control
plans.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay. “C2. Aesthetic, agricultural, historic, or other natural or cultural
resources; or community or neighborhood character?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. FORD-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“C3. Vegetation, fauna, fish, shellfish or wildlife species, significant
habitats, or threatened or endangered species?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. FORD-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“C4. A community’s existing plans or goals as officially adopted, or a
change in use or intensity of use of land or other natural resources?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. FORD-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“C5. Growth, subsequent development or related activities likely to be
induced by the proposed action?”
MR. FORD-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“C6. Long term, short term, cumulative or other effects not identified
above?”
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MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. FORD-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“C7. Other impacts (including changes in use of either quantity or
energy)?”
MR. FORD-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“Will the project have an impact on the environmental characteristics
that caused the establishment of a Critical Environmental Area?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. SIPP-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“Is there or is there likely to be controversy related to potential adverse
environmental impacts?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. FORD-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-I propose a negative declaration.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 27-2008, Introduced by Thomas Seguljic who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Thomas Ford:
WHEREAS, there is presently before the Planning Board an application for:
TOM & DUSTY PUTNAM, and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning
Board action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No Federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is Unlisted in the Department of
Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental
Quality Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental
concern and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has
a significant environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of
the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New
York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken by this Board will
have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board
is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a
statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by
law.
th
Duly adopted this 19 day of August, 2008, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Ford, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Sipp, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Traver, Mrs. Bruno,
Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Would anyone like to put forward a resolution?
MR. SEGULJIC-So, is the Board and the applicant agreeable that if we put in the motion
areas of, is it okay if I say areas of disturbance left devoid of vegetation for more than 24
hours will be covered with plastic?
MR. MAC ELROY-Well, again, I would just say that there may be other particular devices
that you might use instead of plastic.
MR. HUNSINGER-I was going to say, what if there’s something better?
MR. SEGULJIC-Well, that’s why I’m asking the question.
MR. MAC ELROY-It may be specific to the condition, and you say devoid of vegetation.
Well, rock is devoid of vegetation, and you wouldn’t necessarily say that that’s vulnerable
to erosion or siltation.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-There are some semi-pervious materials, too, that work very,
very nicely in those settings, instead of just having water captured and run off plastic.
MR. SEGULJIC-How about if I say areas of disturbed soil?
MR. MAC ELROY-Yes. Good.
MR. SEGULJIC-Devoid of vegetation for more than 24 hours, and that’s more or less
what the Code says, will be covered with.
MRS. BRUNO-Most appropriate methods.
MR. SEGULJIC-Appropriate devices.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 27-2008 TOM & DUSTY PUTNAM, Introduced
by Thomas Seguljic who moved for its adoption, seconded by Thomas Ford:
A site plan application & freshwater wetlands application has been made to the
1)
Queensbury Planning Board for the following: Applicant proposes addition of
450 sq. ft. of living space, new 2 car garage & new wastewater system. Planning
Board review is required for any hard surfacing within 50 feet of a shoreline and
for the expansion of a non-conforming structure in a CEA. Also, review is
required as the project has been classified as a Major Stormwater project.
2) A public hearing was advertised and heard on 6/24, 7/22 & 8/19/08; and
3) This application is supported with all documentation, public comment and
application material in the file of record;
4) Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code [Chapter
179], the Planning Board has determined that this proposal complies with the
requirements as stated in the Zoning Code; and
5) The requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been
considered and the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration;
OR if the application is a modification, the requirements of the State
Environmental Quality Review Act have been considered, and the proposed
modification[s] do not result in any new or significantly different environmental
impacts, and, therefore, no further SEQRA review is necessary; and
6) Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building and Codes personnel. The applicant must meet with
Staff after approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit and/or the beginning
of any site work. Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building
permits is dependent on compliance with this and all other conditions of this
resolution.
7) The applicant will provide as-built plans to certify that the site plan is developed
according to the approved plans prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy;
and
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
8)NOT APPLICABLE: If applicable, Item 7 to be combined with a letter of credit;
and
9)NOT APPLICABLE: The Sanitary Sewer connection plan must be submitted to
the Wastewater Department for its review, approval, permitting and inspection;
and
10)MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 27-2008 TOM & DUSTY PUTNAM,
Introduced by Thomas Seguljic who moved for its adoption, seconded by Thomas
Ford:
In accordance with the resolution prepared by Staff. Number Four complies.
Number Five is Negative. Number Eight does not apply. Number Nine does not
apply. With the following condition. That areas of disturbed soil left devoid of
growing vegetation for more than 24 hours, will be covered with an appropriate
device.
th
Duly adopted this 19 day of August, 2008, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Ford, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Sipp, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Traver, Mrs. Bruno,
Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
MR. MAC ELROY-Thank you very much.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Good luck.
MR. MAC ELROY-Thank you.
SITE PLAN NO. 52-2007 MODIFICATION SEQR TYPE II GRJH, INC. AGENT(S)
LLOYD HELM OWNER(S) QUEENSBURY PETROLEUM ZONING MIXED USE
LOCATION 107 MAIN STREET APPLICANT PROPOSES MODIFICATION TO THEIR
APPROVED SITE PLAN FOR CONSTRUCTION OF 2,400 SQ. FT. GAS STATION AND
CONVENIENCE STORE. THE MODIFICATION REQUESTS ARE: CHANGES TO
PARKING CONFIGURATION AND PAVEMENT LAYOUT; RELOCATION OF SEPTIC
SYSTEM DUE TO CHANGES IN PAVEMENT CONFIGURATION; CHANGES IN
LOCATIONS OF SWM FACILITIES. AGENT WILL ALSO PROVIDE AN UPDATE AS
TO THE STATUS OF THE “FUTURE ACCESS” TO THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY.
MODIFICATIONS TO APPROVED SITE PLANS REQUIRE PLANNING BOARD
REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE AV 23-07, PREV. PH 10/16/07,
12/18/07 WARREN CO. PLANNING N/A LOT SIZE 1.02 +/- ACRES TAX MAP NO.
309.14-1-6 SECTION 179-9-030
CLARK WILKINSON & LLOYD HELM, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. HUNSINGER-Keith, you want to summarize Staff Notes, please.
MR. OBORNE-Site Plan No. 52-2007, GRJH, Inc. Requested action is applicant
proposes a modification of their proposed Site Plan for the construction of a 2400 square
foot gas station and convenience store. The Site Plan Modification request seems to be
the result of incorrect positioning of the building. Location: 107 Main Street. Zoning is
Mixed Use SEQRA Status is Type II. Numerous parcel histories, alterations, temporary
signs are listed on the Staff Notes. Project Description: The applicant proposes a
modification of their approved site plan for the construction of a 2,400 square foot gas
station and convenience store. Modifications are as follows: Changes to parking
configuration and pavement layout. Relocation of septic system due to changes in
pavement configuration. Changes in location of the Storm Water Management facilities.
Staff comments: This project is on Main Street and as such is to follow the Main Street
Design Guidelines per 179-7-020. The following comments are for consideration: Those
comments are Site Plan Review for the modification of 52-2007, GRJH. I assume that
the Planning Board has read the Site Plan Review.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you. I guess I just want to say, before we go any
further, I don’t know how we got to the point of where we are, but I’m glad that you came
back before the Board before the project was finished. Because too often when there’s a
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
problem in building a project, we don’t get involved until it’s too late and it’s all done, and
there’s really no opportunity at that point to make any compromises or modifications. So
I just, for the record, want you to know that I appreciate the fact that you’re here.
MR. WILKINSON-Well, thank you. We appreciate that. For the record, my name is
Clark Wilkinson of Paragon Engineering, representing GRJH, Inc. Here with me at the
table is Jimmy Metz and Lloyd Helm, who are both representatives of GRJH as well. To
clarify, for both the Board’s benefit and Staff as well, the major reason for the change in
the Site Plan is the fact that once we got the survey information back on the location of
the future access, it was actually about 20 feet further back, 25 feet further back, than
what I had measured in the field or paced off in the field to try to get a feel for it, and right
smack dab in the middle of where we had the septic designed on the back side of that
pavement, which opened up more area towards the building, the other reason for the
change in parking configuration is the parking that was shown on the north side of the
building originally, there is no door on that side, and so since we had to move the septic,
we also wanted to move those parking spaces, because there isn’t a door on that side of
the building. We wanted to get them more access, easier access to the door that would
be on the west side of the building. I’ll go through, quickly go through the comments
again, both from Staff and VISION Engineering. There’s only four comments from
VISION Engineering. Sheet Two of Five, Sugar Maple is not an approved deciduous
shade tree. Whatever you want for a deciduous shade tree, we’ll change from Sugar
Maple to whatever it is. By the way, the Sugar Maples were approved on the original
Site Plan. I did not change that from the original Site Plan, but if you want something
different, we’ll certainly take care of that. Parking spaces adjacent to east side of
building will have no room to open the vehicle doors. On the plan that you have in front
of you, I show two spaces on the southeast side of the building. Since that time, and
getting the comments, I looked at it and the comments are, it’s absolutely right.
Apparently I didn’t look close enough when I put the parking spaces in. What I’m going
to do is remove the handicap space from directly in front of that building on the south
side, on the south side of the building directly in front of the door I show a parallel
handicap. I’m removing that one and moving that over to the right side of the building so
there’ll only be one space on the right side of the building that will be handicap
accessible and have an aisle so that there’s plenty of room to open the doors, and that
also works better with our grade for ramping to get the ramp access to the sidewalk as
well, and then what it also further does is alleviates the parking in front of that door by
possible any vehicle and possible handicap vehicle, to give even more maneuverability
on the main gas pumps with nothing obstructing the door, so people can come directly
in. That was, again, I’d looked at it, once I got the comments, and that was, I said, wow,
that’s a legitimate comment. Let me look at that and see how we can go over that. The
no sidewalk apparent for north parallel parking spaces, on your Site Plan it’s shown
extending, I think like 20 feet north of the building, and the comment is for maybe further
sidewalk to be alongside all of the parallel spaces. If that’s a requirement, we can
certainly add that. My question would be, would that be okay to be in asphalt versus
concrete? Is that acceptable to the Board to do that for that additional sidewalk that we’d
add along those parallel spaces? In addition, going back to the parking for one quick
minute, on this site I have shown, from Day One, two handicap accessible spaces.
We’re only required to have 17 spaces, and therefore under Code I’m only required to
have one handicap space. So I’ve eliminated, or will eliminate, one of the handicap
spaces, and that only handicap space will be on the, again, on the southeast side of the
building where I think it makes the most sense. It’s very close and accessible to the
door, the front door, and then all the rest of the parallel parking spaces on the west side
of the building will be non-handicap accessible, but I will leave an aisle directly out from
the door so that there is a space to come in from the diesel pumps on that side of the
building, as well as the additional parking spaces across the parking lot. Back to the
comments. No consideration for dumpsters or cardboard recycling containers. Again,
we did not specify that on the original approved Site Plan. Again, an oversight on all of
our parts. We’re looking at the northwest corner where the parking lot curves around,
over by the three euonymus and one sugar maple planting there, just north of that, along
that side of the parking lot, and we are also going to propose it to be stockade enclosed,
so that it’s hidden from the ground. Again, you will be able to see it from 787, possibly,
because it’s so much higher, but that’s the location that we have, or that we’re proposing
for that, and again, it’s an oversight that we all missed it on the first Site Plan. We’ll
certainly add it to this, and then there appears to be no walkway to the back door. There
is no back door on this building. If you look at the building plans that are on file, and that
we have a building permit for, there’s only the two access doors that I show on my site
plan, the one to the west and the one to the south, again, both facing the pumps. The
one to the west is for the diesel pump location and those parallel parking spaces, and the
one to the south is for the main gas aisle in the front of the building. Parking
configuration has changed. The parallel parking by the diesel pumps, elimination of the
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
four spaces at the rear. Again, I explained that. There is no door on that side of the
building, and therefore we wanted to move those spaces out of there because we did
have to make other provisions for the septic that now the access road is over top of that
septic area. So that’s why we’ll try to eliminate those. Anything else in here? As far as
the ANSI and all the accessible stuff, that will be addressed with the re-location of that
handicap to the side of the building, and that’s going to be the only spot over there. So
that’s Staff comments. On to the four VISION Engineering comments. The revised
location of the septic absorption field is too close to proposed stormwater infiltration area.
I’m at, I believe, 15 feet of separation, I need to be 20. I’ll just slide that out 20 feet to
make sure I meet that. The proposed handicap parking spaces. Again, this is a
reiteration of Staff comments, and I’ve addressed that with the re-location. Number
Three, a grease trap is not necessary, and you can attest to that. All the food in this
that’s going to be prepared, it’s pre-prepared before it comes in. It’s not prepared on
site. So there is no actual, you know, grease and stuff generated on site. Then the last
comment from VISION is regarding a pre-treatment device in the paved area, and I’ll
address that and provide that accordingly. That’s it for that. There’s a couple, or there’s
one other note that I want to make to the Board that came to light since this application
was submitted. If you look on Sheet Two of Five, along the front area, you can see the
future right of way, and it’s been noted that the existing sign is actually going to be
located in the future right of way, and GRJH was asked to move that. We also wanted to
make the Board aware that we were asked to move that, and we will move it. I show a
re-located area that meets the Code, 15 feet from each property line. It would be on the
west side of that parking area, and it’s actually, the edge of the parking is going to be the
edge of the sign, because that parking is pretty close to exactly 15 feet off of that
westerly line, and then it’s going to be placed 15 feet from the front line to make sure it
conforms to Code. Again, I want to make sure the Board was aware that that’s part of
the things that are going on here. That area in front, they’re going through the taking
procedure for the State, actually the County, to take that property from GRJH, and that
sign is located in that property that they’re trying to take. So we will re-locate that as part
of this project as well, and again, it’s just trying to make sure everything is covered and
that everybody is aware of everything that’s going on.
MR. SIPP-Is it a freestanding sign?
MR. WILKINSON-It’s a pylon sign, freestanding. Yes.
MR. SIPP-Pylon. What’s the height?
MR. WILKINSON-Currently 20 feet, 18 feet, something like that.
MR. SIPP-How about cutting it down to 15?
MR. WILKINSON-Whatever the Sign Ordinance allows is what we’re going to propose.
MR. SIPP-How about cutting it down to 15?
MR. WILKINSON-I believe that we wanted to just re-locate the sign that’s there to the
new location. That’s what we were intending on doing. So we weren’t going to make it
any higher or any shorter. We were planning on just relocating.
MR. SIPP-Twenty feet’s a little high.
MR. WILKINSON-Not when the majority of traffic using this gas station is coming from
the Northway and it’s very, very difficult to actually see that sign from the Northway as it
is now. You can see it once you’re heading down the ramp, but if you’re on the
Northway, you can’t.
MR. SIPP-You’ll see it heading down the ramp if it’s at 15 feet, too.
MR. WILKINSON-Whatever’s allowed under the Sign Ordinance is what we’re
proposing, and actually, again, it’s the re-location of the existing sign is all we’re trying to
do.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. WILKINSON-And that’s what we have, and we’ll open it up to questions and
comments.
MR. HUNSINGER-Comments from the Board? Questions?
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. SEGULJIC-I’m all set with it.
MR. KREBS-I have one question. In all the information, it says that we approved a 2400
square foot gas station and convenience store, and on the drawing is says 2520 square
feet. There’s a discrepancy there.
MR. WILKINSON-I’ll check on that. Because the building, I haven’t changed the look of
the building, and in actuality, the location of it hasn’t changed from the initial one. It’s 40
by 60. So it’s 2400 square feet.
MR. KREBS-Okay, then your drawing is wrong.
MR. WILKINSON-Is wrong.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, it shows 60 by 42.
MR. WILKINSON-Forty-two by sixty. Yes. It’s 42 by 60. So whatever that multiplies out.
That’s always been the size. So I don’t know where the discrepancy goes, 42 by 60.
MR. OBORNE-Twenty-five twenty.
MR. WILKINSON-Twenty-five twenty.
MR. HUNSINGER-It’s really quite an interesting site. We were there on Saturday, and,
you know, you look at it on paper, and then you drive to the site, and then you drive onto
the site, and it’s so deceiving because the entire Niagara Mohawk right of way is paved.
MR. WILKINSON-Gravel. It’s gravel.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, gravel.
MR. WILKINSON-And full of potholes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. So it feels like it’s part of your property, and I’m sure customers
have always used it as part of your property.
MR. WILKINSON-That’s correct.
MR. HUNSINGER-They will always continue to use it as part of your property.
MR. WILKINSON-No, not if National Grid has their way. That’s part of the negotiation
that is still ongoing to try to cross their easement. They want it shut off from traffic and
shrubs or something planted there. That’s one of the things we’re discussing back and
forth, and what we don’t want to do is we don’t want to put it back to grass or something
for them if it’s going to cost us topsoil and everything else. They have all the equipment
and everything. Why don’t they do it? But it’s a negotiation thing that’s going back and
forth. We’ve already spent a lot of money on this site and we’re trying not to spend more
to get National Grid crossing. So we’re negotiating.
MR. HUNSINGER-Good luck.
MR. KREBS-Keith, for the record, should that number be changed?
MR. OBORNE-Yes, I’d like to see, I mean, what is it actually?
MR. WILKINSON-The building permit lists 42 by 60.
MR. OBORNE-Okay.
MR. WILKINSON-And that’s what my original drawing showed, and I don’t know where
the 2400.
MR. OBORNE-If that’s what you’ve got, if that’s what the building is right here, and it is
the 2520?
MR. WILKINSON-Yes.
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MR. OBORNE-That’s golden. My main concern, though, and I’m going to take the liberty
to say that your drive aisle past the diesel pumps is a major problem. It is, and I don’t
know, maybe you glossed over it, but out of all of my Site Plan Review that is just glaring.
You need to have a 24 foot drive aisle. Just imagine people getting out of there if there’s
a semi pulled up there also. I’m not the Planning Board, but it is a requirement of the
Town Zoning Code, and it’s a, it’s a glaring problem I believe.
MR. FORD-You’re about to address that, aren’t you?
MR. WILKINSON-Yes, but you notice I talked to them before I did. One of the things that
I was just looking at and thinking of, because GRJH also has the station on Exit 19, the
Sunoco there, and that went through Planning Board approval a couple of years ago, I’m
not, I don’t remember the exact dates, but the usage of the store is such that there’s
probably the need for two or three parking spaces near the building only. So that we
could try to change that configuration to ensure that there’s access aisle around that, that
there’s not a parking spot by the diesel pump. I’m thinking that if we use two parallels
over there, starting from the south edge of the building, and then maybe an additional
parallel further back, and then have all the, whatever other remaining parking area we
need, use the existing paving which would be to the west towards Northway. There’s a
whole section over there that’s all paved already that we can add three more spaces to it
to meet the minimum requirements, but the actual need for them at the door is two or
three if that would be satisfactory to the Board. I think it is a legitimate comment, Keith,
and I apologize for appearing to gloss over it, but I’m just reading under stress of being in
front of the Board. I just missed it.
MR. FORD-They can do that to you. Absolutely.
MR. HUNSINGER-So there would be only two spaces parallel to the west side of the
building?
MR. WILKINSON-Two spaces parallel on the west side of the building. Would two
spaces be adequate, or do you need three? Two, and then have the handicap also on
the, what would be the east side of the building would be the one handicap space, rather
than the two that are shown there now, and that’s going to be the space with the aisle
and everything. So you’ve got door access and it doesn’t cross borders. It doesn’t hit
the building.
MR. SEGULJIC-Just so I understand, because I’m probably going to do the motion, what
you’re proposing to do, then, is taking the three parking spaces that are on the west side
of the building, those northern three spaces, and move those to the edge of the
pavement on the western edge of the pavement?
MR. WILKINSON-Further west. Yes, where we’re showing ten spaces.
MR. SEGULJIC-North of the existing diesel pumps.
MR. WILKINSON-They wouldn’t be north of that. They would be spaced along that
westerly edge. We have ten spaces there now. There’s room down at the bottom to
stripe an additional two, and then add one to the north. So there would be 13 spaces
along the westerly edge of pavement.
MR. SEGULJIC-So you’re saying one here, two?
MR. WILKINSON-There’s room there to stripe one so you’ve got two, and then add one
to this end.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay.
MR. WILKINSON-So there’d be, instead of 10, that would go to 13.
MR. SEGULJIC-And then we’d eliminate these three.
MR. WILKINSON-Yes, and that would no longer be handicap because we only need
one. This would be the handicap and those two would be there, and this wouldn’t be
there at all.
MR. SEGULJIC-That’s not there. This is going to be handicap over here.
MR. WILKINSON-Correct.
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MR. SEGULJIC-All right. I think I’ve got it.
MRS. BRUNO-Can you come down and give us a little sketch, too?
MR. HELM-This space in here, there’s room to add one stripe, and become two spaces,
and then add one up here. So there’s now 13 instead of 10. This is no longer handicap.
This is gone. This is handicapped on this side of the building, for our one handicap we
need, and there’s two spaces starting from here, two spaces going north, and the rest
are eliminated.
MRS. BRUNO-So we’re not worried about here to here, or here to here? I mean, I know
that, or, excuse me, here to here.
MR. HELM-No, because I need 24 foot aisle. It’s going to be close. Well, the other thing
is not add the one to the north and ask for one in reduction, because we said we need
17, but we’re not going to need 17.
MRS. BRUNO-I mean, you’re saying a 20 foot aisle, you really only have 10.
MR. HELM-Under the Code, as a convenience store, to have 17.
MR. FORD-How many are you proposing?
MR. SEGULJIC-Sixteen, yes.
MRS. BRUNO-Clark, you’ve only got 10 over here. Right? If you have the back of the
car right there.
MR. WILKINSON-Yes, but this is eliminated and slid down.
MRS. BRUNO-This one’s eliminated and slid.
MR. WILKINSON-And this one’s slid right to the edge of the sidewalk. I’m going to slide
them all down a little bit.
MRS. BRUNO-It’s still not going to give you 20.
MR. WILKINSON-We’re trying not to move the pumps, because that’s a huge expense.
MRS. BRUNO-No, I agree, and that’s potential for.
MR. HELM-You want 24 here? Which I think is a, that’s even tight on the curve right
now. It’s 21 to the pump.
MRS. BRUNO-I would say do your best. If we’re going to end up with this. I’m more
concerned about over here, and if you’ve got somebody here, because if you end up with
this, you’ve got to have your.
MR. HELM-And not only going out but coming in with a big rig, too, I agree.
MRS. BRUNO-Or even a little rig, trying to get past the big rig.
MR. HUNSINGER-I’m sorry, what’s up to the Board?
MR. HELM-Well, we were looking at, with Tanya, we were looking at if I add a space on
the north end of those existing 10 spaces, that the clearance between the diesel pump
and the end of that space might be also a critical area.
MR. HUNSINGER-You could park them parallel, though.
MR. HELM-You could do that, or we could ask for a reduction of one or two spaces
because, you know, 17 spaces for a 2500 square foot store is ridiculous. So we could
ask for that. Instead of showing them, we could just leave it open. Which is your
preference, a reduction of two spaces so you’re down to 15?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, you’re showing 16.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. HELM-We might be able to do 16, but if ask for two, then I can make sure that
there’s no error, you know, no problems there. The last couple you can.
MR. KREBS-Like you said, if you just turned that last one on the top parallel.
MR. HUNSINGER-I mean, you could just paint two spaces parallel on that and plenty of
room.
MR. HELM-And again, I don’t think those spaces over there are ever going to really be
used. Employees only.
MR. OBORNE-I don’t think you could pull that last space on the top on the north, on a
parallel? Maybe if you ran it 40 feet up.
MR. WILKINSON-I would rather not show it, and that’s what I’m asking for.
MR. HUNSINGER-I was looking at the 37.8 feet to the boundary line, not to the edge of
pavement.
MR. WILKINSON-Not to the edge of pavement.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, you’re right. You’re not going to get two spots back there.
MR. OBORNE-Yes, you wouldn’t want to throw it up there. That’s where the garbage is
going.
MR. WILKINSON-No, that’s going further up, away from the pump.
MR. OBORNE-That’s what I was talking about, though.
MR. HUNSINGER-That’s right. That’s where the dumpster’s going.
MR. WILKINSON-So if we could get a request of one space reduction, or two, let’s
request two, because if I show an extra, it’ll be okay, but if I don’t show enough. Is that?
MRS. BRUNO-That’s fine with me. I don’t think you’re going to get that many cars.
MR. WILKINSON-I know we’re not going to get that many cars, but.
MRS. BRUNO-I’d rather see the safety.
MR. WILKINSON-Yes, I agree. The circulation needs to work better than worrying about
whether there’s 17 parking spaces.
MRS. BRUNO-You did mention the reason why you had moved the septic system back.
MR. WILKINSON-Yes.
MRS. BRUNO-I noticed that one of Dan Ryan’s comments was how close it was to the.
MR. WILKINSON-To the stormwater.
MRS. BRUNO-Yes, to the stormwater, 12 feet.
MR. WILKINSON-Yes. I’m going to make it 20.
MRS. BRUNO-You are? Okay. I think I missed that. Thanks.
MR. WILKINSON-Yes. I have room to do that in that whole green area.
MRS. BRUNO-That was my next question is if you’ve got enough.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Any other questions, comments from the Board?
MR. SIPP-Any signs on the building?
MR. WILKINSON-Just the pylon.
MR. SIPP-Just the one.
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MR. WILKINSON-Yes.
MR. SIPP-Fifteen feet high.
MR. WILKINSON-You’re pushing for that, Don, aren’t you? The movement of the
existing pole to that location.
MR. HUNSINGER-As long as you don’t make the sign LED, we’ll be happy.
MR. WILKINSON-No. We discussed that at the first approval. Remember?
MR. FORD-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-I’m sure it was a condition.
MR. WILKINSON-And, no, that’s not proposed here.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay, and back to the parking, so I understand it. We’re going for a
total of 15?
MR. HUNSINGER-Fifteen spaces.
MR. WILKINSON-Fifteen. That’s what we’re requesting from the Board.
MR. SEGULJIC-I have, we discussed 16. Which one are you going to eliminate?
MR. WILKINSON-One over on the west side. We’re only going to show 11 over there,
no, 12 over there.
MR. SEGULJIC-Twelve over there.
MR. WILKINSON-Twelve on the west side of the parking, or the paved area, two against
the west side of the building, and one on the east side of the building.
MR. SEGULJIC-And that’s going to be handicapped?
MR. WILKINSON-That’s going to be handicapped.
MR. SEGULJIC-All right. If I understand this, I’ll just read what I have. As far as this
motion goes, should I say we’re going to eliminate spaces? What I have written is that
we’re going to eliminate three northern spaces along the building’s western side, insert a
total of twelve spaces along the western site boundary, eliminate the handicap spaces to
the south and west of the building, and place a handicap space to the east of the building
at the southern end.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. OBORNE-Three northern spaces?
MR. WILKINSON-Along the western side of the building on the north.
MR. OBORNE-That’s still going to leave you with the space going up from the south on
the west side of the building. You’re not even close. You’re at 13 feet.
MRS. BRUNO-That’s what I was saying. He said he was going to slide it down.
MR. OBORNE-You need to eliminate the three middle ones.
MR. WILKINSON-So you can leave the northern one, you’re saying?
MR. OBORNE-Leave the northern one and the southern one, and you’re good, because
it’s those three that are the problem.
MR. WILKINSON-Well, one of the things that also occurred is you see how the sidewalk,
I show the sidewalk radiused. It’s actually square. So I was going to bring that down an
additional four, five feet. I don’t know if it’ll help or not, Keith.
MR. OBORNE-Yes. Because to the building is 24 from the pump.
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MR. WILKINSON-Yes, but if I slide those spaces to the south, the parallel spaces, so
that they’re, you know, five foot south of the building, right even with that sidewalk.
MR. OBORNE-I see.
MR. HUNSINGER-Eliminate that striping.
MR. WILKINSON-And eliminate the striping, now I only have two spaces that are 20 feet
each, coming from the bottom. I think it still might be close, but it’s definitely better than.
MR. OBORNE-Okay. If it’s not, well, we can’t really talk about it, can we? Let’s see
what we can do here. What are those, Clark, those are three and a half feet or three
feet?
MR. WILKINSON-What’s that?
MR. OBORNE-Those stripes. Say four feet.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, I think people will park there.
MR. WILKINSON-They’ll park there anyway. So you might as well plan for it.
MR. OBORNE-That’s true. Well, unless you put a big rock there or something. Well, it’s
been done.
MR. HUNSINGER-I mean, I’m sure that the majority of people that go in to the store stop
and get gas, and then they walk from the pump to the store.
MR. WILKINSON-The majority, yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, but there’s always people that stop and buy convenience items,
and they’re going to park as close as they can to the door. In fact, they’ll probably park
where that front handicap spot is that we’re moving.
MR. WILKINSON-That’s correct. They’ll probably do that anyway.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, because you see it all the time.
MR. WILKINSON-And block everything.
MR. HUNSINGER-You can mark every spot and plan for everything, but people will just
do what they want.
MR. WILKINSON-They’re still going to park as close as they can to the door because I
want to run in and out and I’m more important right now because I need to get this stuff
because I’m thirsty. That’s the way people think. I’m sorry.
MR. OBORNE-I look at it from the point of safety and welfare, I really do, and leaving
that spot there is just not going to cut it, for that aspect of it.
MR. WILKINSON-Okay. So, keep one south of the pumps and one north of that diesel
pump?
MR. OBORNE-Yes, I’d sleep better at night.
MR. HUNSINGER-Works for me.
MR. OBORNE-So the middle three.
MR. SEGULJIC-All right, and that’s going to give us a total of how many spaces?
MR. OBORNE-Fifteen.
MR. FORD-Fifteen.
MR. SEGULJIC-Fifteen. All right. Are we all set, then?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, it’s a Type II action. No SEQRA.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. SIPP-So you’re going to replace those sugar maples with what?
MR. WILKINSON-Have you got a suggestion, Don? You’re usually pretty good at trees.
MR. SIPP-Norway maple, an ash. I think that’s in the corridor.
MR. WILKINSON-It’s in, for the deciduous shade?
MR. SIPP-Yes. The Main Street Corridor.
MR. WILKINSON-I’ll pick one out of that listing.
MR. SIPP-I don’t know why the sugar maple.
MR. WILKINSON-I don’t either.
MR. OBORNE-It should be salt tolerant, too.
MR. WILKINSON-It is, that’s why I picked it.
MR. OBORNE-I’m pretty sure a red maple is.
MR. SIPP-Red maple is. Sugar maple is not salt tolerant.
MR. WILKINSON-Right.
MR. SIPP-And I assume it’s because it’s next to that ramp, which is going to be salted,
but an ash or a Norway.
MR. WILKINSON-Norway maple. Let’s pick Norway maple. That’s still a maple.
MR. SIPP-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-The street trees will be Norway maple.
MR. WILKINSON-They’re not street trees. It’s site trees. There’s only two, one street
tree that’s the sugar maple that I’ll make the Norway, but the other ones are along the
western edge. Do you want them changed as well?
MR. SIPP-Yes.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay. So I’ll say site trees.
MR. WILKINSON-The sugar maples will become Norway maples.
MR. SEGULJIC-All right. I assume we’re all set.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 52-2007 GRJH, INC., Introduced by Thomas
Seguljic who moved for its adoption, seconded by Thomas Ford:
1) A site plan application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board
for the following: Applicant proposes modification to their approved site plan for
construction of 2,400 sq. ft. Gas Station and Convenience Store. The
modification requests are: changes to parking configuration and pavement
layout; relocation of septic system due to changes in pavement configuration;
changes in locations of SWM facilities. Agent will also provide an update as to
the status of the “Future Access” to the rear of the property. Modifications to
approved site plans require Planning Board review and approval.
2) A public hearing is not required for a modification; and
3) This application is supported with all documentation, public comment and
application material in the file of record;
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
4) Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code [Chapter
179], the Planning Board has determined that this proposal complies with the
requirements as stated in the Zoning Code; and
5) NOT APPLICABLE – PROJECT IS A TYPE II;
6) Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building and Codes personnel. The applicant must meet with
Staff after approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit and/or the beginning
of any site work. Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building
permits is dependent on compliance with this and all other conditions of this
resolution.
7) The applicant will provide as-built plans to certify that the site plan is developed
according to the approved plans prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy;
and
8) Not applicable: If applicable, Item 7 to be combined with a letter of credit; and
9) The Sanitary Sewer connection plan must be submitted to the Wastewater
Department for its review, approval, permitting and inspection; and
10) MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 52-2007 GRJH, INC., Introduced by
Thomas Seguljic who moved for its adoption, seconded by Thomas Ford:
In accordance with the resolution prepared by Staff. Number Four complies.
Number Five, it’s a Type II. Number Eight does not apply. With the following
conditions. That the site trees will be Norway Maple instead of sugar maples,
and that the parking plan will consist of a total of 15 spaces, and the plan will be
revised as follows. The three middle spaces along the building’s western edge
will be eliminated. A total of 12 spaces will be located along the site’s western
boundary. The handicap spaces to the west and south of the building will be
eliminated, and a handicap space will be located to the east of the building at the
southern end, and within the resolution, under Number One, the noted
construction of 2400 square feet will be revised 2520 square feet, and a
stockade enclosed dumpster will be located adjacent to the northernmost three
Norway Maple trees, and that the engineering comments will be addressed.
th
Duly adopted this 19 day of August, 2008, by the following vote:
MR. FORD-Well, that locates 13 of the 15.
MR. WILKINSON-No, 15.
MR. OBORNE-That’s 15.
MR. FORD-Did you come up with 15?
MR. OBORNE-You’ve got the 12 along the side. You’ve got the one northern
one, southern on the western side, that’s 14, and then the one over.
MR. FORD-Thank you.
MR. KREBS-And, Tom, we need to change that 2400 square feet to 2520.
MR. HUNSINGER-The only other thing, I don’t know if we want to mention
anything about the dumpster, the stockade enclosed dumpster.
MR. SEGULJIC-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Which will be located on the western boundary, near.
MR. WILKINSON-Stockade enclosed.
MR. FORD-Northwestern boundary.
MR. HUNSINGER-Near the location of the three.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
MR. WILKINSON-The last set of trees.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. It would be just north of those trees?
MR. WILKINSON-North of that. Correct.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay.
AYES: Mr. Ford, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Sipp, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Traver, Mrs. Bruno,
Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
MR. WILKINSON-Thank you for your time.
MR. HUNSINGER-Good luck.
MR. WILKINSON-We’ll see you again when we come back for that access.
SITE PLAN NO. 33-2008 SEQR TYPE UNLISTED DELLA AUTO GROUP AGENT(S)
B P S R; HUTCHINS ENG. OWNER(S) LINDA HART; 130 BIG BOOM RD., LLC
ZONING HC-INT LOCATION 384 BAY ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES UPGRADE
OF EXISTING BUILDING AND ADDITION OF A 4307 SQ. FT. BUILDING WITH
ASSOCIATED PARKING AND UTILITIES. EXPANSION OF AN ALLOWABLE US
REQUIRES SITE PLAN REVIEW. CROSS REFERENCE SP 11-93, 61-93, 47-98, 4-
99, 55-95, SV 25-94, UV 54-07 WARREN CO. PLANNING 8/13/08 LOT SIZE 0.79
ACRES; 0.07 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 296.20-1-43, 44 SECTION 179-4-020
JON LAPPER & TOM HUTCHINS, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. HUNSINGER-Keith, whenever you’re ready to summarize Staff Notes.
MR. OBORNE-Site Plan No. 33-2008, Della Auto Group, Site Plan Review for the
expansion of an allowable use, 384 Bay Road. This is Highway Commercial Intensive.
It’s a Type II SEQRA status. The parcel histories are numerous and variable. Project
Description: Applicant proposes upgrades to the existing building and a 4,307 square
foot addition. The proposal includes associated parking and utility. Staff comments:
Parcel consolidation will be needed to be a condition of approval to avoid setback issues.
The applicant intends to use the building for auto body repair purposes. The existing
structure is 4,963 square feet in size, and the proposed 4,307 square foot addition will
bring the total size of the building to 9,270 square feet. The proposed permeability for
the site sits at 38.6%, well within the 30% maximum per 179-4-030, and Site Plan
Review follows.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MR. LAPPER-Good evening. Again, for the record, Jon Lapper with Michael Della Bella
and the engineer, Tom Hutchins. To start out with, Mike was able to consolidate a few
parcels and sign an agreement with Linda Hart from The Harvest to square off the
properties, which allowed this project to go forward. As the Board’s probably aware, the
parcel in question has been for sale for a while. It’s a perfect location for the Della Bellas
because it’s just a few blocks from their dealerships on Quaker Road. So the idea is to
consolidate their body shop here, and it’ll be very convenient for their dealerships. The
general plan is to clean up this site, move the pavement back from where it is on Bay
Road now, add landscaping, which is pretty non-existent, add stormwater management,
which is non-existent, and just generally upgrade this site. A few months ago, the Board
approved the Adirondack Trust Company bank site to the south. This site was
coordinated. We got the plans from the LA Group, so that we could match up the
driveways and make these two sites work together. So in general, in a short amount of
time, we’ll have two sites that’ll be re-developed, which should look pretty nice on Bay
Road. I guess to start with, let me just ask Tom to walk you through the proposed
improvements, and then we can talk about the comment letters.
MR. HUTCHINS-Good evening. Tom Hutchins, Hutchins Engineering. To summarize,
looking at your layout plan, which is Sheet S-2, the existing building that has been there
for some time, our proposed addition is 60 by 62, nominal structure, although there’s a
notch out of that. So the areas won’t match. It’s located entirely to the rear of the current
building, and we propose to remove the blocking fence there that is to the north of the
current building and allow some customer and employee parking along the north of the
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(Queensbury Planning Board 08/19/08)
current building, also just toward the street, in front of the building, although we are
pulling the asphalt back further than it currently is, and we have parking in the rear which
will allow for some employee parking, as well as holding of vehicles that are in service.
Utilities are all in place, water, sewer, electric. Stormwater, we have basically followed
the model that was completed with the bank, in following their general pattern toward the
rear of the site with a wet pond and a controlled outlet. Dan and I haven’t coordinated on
his comments. He had a number of comments, many of them very minor, and a couple
of them need a little thought, and we’ll probably discuss them. I don’t foresee anything
that can’t be worked out between he and I, to be satisfactory. Currently there’s basically
essentially, essentially no stormwater treatment facilities on the site now. We will be re-
paving, cleaning up the site. I have shown some landscaping. It’s kind of difficult to the
north and south as we’re very tight to the property lines. We have shown some plantings
on the street side, and, yes, we planted sugar maples, and as you saw the last
application, they may not be the preferred planting, but, lighting. There were some
comments on our lighting plan and that is something that we can adjust and get within
the Town standards. I did not calculate a uniformity ratio. It does, there is another level
of analysis I have to go to in order to do that where we add the individual contours that I
have shown on there. So in order to calculate a Uniformity Ratio, I have to take another
step in that analysis, but I don’t foresee it being a problem. There was one comment
about low lighting levels in the front, and we’ve sort of intentionally did that, because
you’ll see there’s a pole just south of the entranceway. That pole has a street light, and
it’s actually pointed almost directly over this entrance. That’s not accounted for in our
lighting analysis. It’s not on our property, but there’s a significant amount of lighting
there. We also anticipate some spill along this side from the bank, as the drive thru will
be right there, which are generally well lit, and with that, I guess I’d turn it over to
questions, or if Michael has anything he wants to add about the operation.
MICHAEL DELLA BELLA
MR. DELLA BELLA-No. I’ll wait to answer the questions.
MR. LAPPER-Okay.
MR. SIPP-All right. On the north side here, this little notch, this has been acquired?
MR. LAPPER-It’s under contract to be acquired. It’ll all close together.
MR. SIPP-From Linda Hart.
MR. LAPPER-Yes.
MR. SIPP-Owns both pieces that border on.
MR. LAPPER-Right.
MR. SIPP-So that little five foot notch there would be, your property would be extended,
and that would leave you more room for a buffer in between.
MR. DELLA BELLA-What we did is we squared it off. My property, the property of the
body shop, went much further up into, well, close to the restaurant. It says Lands
Conveyed to Linda Hart, that whole box, that was my property. So what I did with the
Harts is they asked if they could square off the property, which I said no problem. I just
needed that five or six feet there, so I wouldn’t abut them. I could, you know, have a little
bit of room to put the stormwater in and everything else. They were in agreement with
that. It squared off their property, so they don’t have a cockeyed piece, and we’re pretty
square now, too.
MR. SIPP-Are you going to have only one paint booth still only just one?
MR. DELLA BELLA-Correct. We’ve already invested a substantial amount of money
here because that’s all new. It’s the State of the Art booths that are, and the current
paint booth is going to be eliminated, that’s in the front, and that was a discussion I had
with the Harts. They didn’t like the paint booth there. It was too close to the front and too
close to the restaurant. So we have an agreement and I moved it over, the paint booth is
all the way at the end of the building, and they just re-ducted it, any exhaust that would
come out of there is going towards us, toward east, versus going north where it used to
go. So, between the filters and everything, you could stand up on the roof.
MR. LAPPER-That’s all DEC standards for paint booths.
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MR. DELLA BELLA-We had to get permits and, which has all been completed.
MR. SIPP-Now, this easement, have you approached the Adirondack bank?
MR. LAPPER-Well, when we did that approval, we showed it to their property line. On
the other Site Plan approved by the Board, and now we’re showing it here, and they’re in
exactly the same place. So we worked that out.
MR. SIPP-Okay. They agreed to put in some.
MR. LAPPER-Some plants.
MR. SIPP-Some plantings, and I’m pretty sure that they were evergreen type.
MR. LAPPER-Yes. Those plants are behind, which would be to the east of that
connection point that we’re talking about, Don. So what’s positive about that, because
there’s not a lot of room on this site, this is a narrow site, there are all, that whole line of
trees that you’re talking about are on the Adirondack Trust Company site, but they’re
right on the property line. So it should work visually for both properties.
MRS. BRUNO-Keith, would you tell me exactly where the Bay Road corridor design
starts?
MR. OBORNE-Where does it start?
MRS. BRUNO-Where it would start, right. At the corner of Bay and Quaker, or is it up
further?
MR. OBORNE-Absolutely, yes, and it runs north all the way through, Jon, you should
know this, too, but it’s definitely part of the Bay Road corridor. I can get that exactly for
you, though.
MRS. BRUNO-That’s okay. I just wanted to make sure that it was in it before. I just
wanted to make sure that it was in and not out or, you know, vice versa.
MR. OBORNE-It’s in.
MRS. BRUNO-Thank you.
MR. KREBS-Just from my standpoint, we went and looked at the site on Saturday and
you have cleared all the way back to what you’re showing here, almost to the edge of the
property. Have you cleared that?
MR. HUTCHINS-No, no, not the full way.
MR. KREBS-Okay.
MR. DELLA BELLA-It goes past, substantially, those trees back there.
MR. HUTCHINS-It goes past, where it’s cut, it was all small stuff that was cut, and it goes
back towards probably the back of where we’re showing parking area, but it’s not all the
way back.
MR. KREBS-Okay.
MR. TRAVER-Another thing we noticed in our site visit is you mentioned the paint booth
and so on, and there’s a lot of ductwork and mechanicals and so on on the end of the
building. Is that going to go on the roof of the new building, or?
MR. DELLA BELLA-That’s where it is now. That’s all brand new. That was just installed.
That’s the end of that existing building.
MR. TRAVER-Right.
MR. DELLA BELLA-When the extension goes on, it’ll continue ducting because my
agreement with the Harts is it’s ducting as far east as it can go. That’s where it’s going to
go.
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MR. TRAVER-Okay. So you’ll just keep adding sections to it, as needed.
MR. DELLA BELLA-Yes. As soon as that extension’s put on, then I can extend it, but
right now it’s much more powerful than it should be because it’s got another 50 feet to go
yet.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-So what are you going to use the site for? Is it just going to be a body
shop? Does it service all of your dealerships?
MR. DELLA BELLA-This is a collision paint center. It does all my dealerships, but it also
does substantial amount of body work for the public. Just like the one on Broad Street
was. Same, similar type of thing.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. LAPPER-They’re basically re-locating their operations from Broad Street in Glens
Falls to Queensbury.
MR. DELLA BELLA-To Quaker Road, or Bay Road.
MR. HUNSINGER-It just seemed like there was a lot of parking spaces to me. That’s
part of why I asked the question.
MR. DELLA BELLA-What I think the parking, we’re going to have probably I don’t know
how many employees when it’s finally done.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. So you’ll have a fair number of employees.
MR. DELLA BELLA-Yes. It’ll be similar to our business as it was on Broad Street.
MR. HUNSINGER-And we did notice, I think you mentioned something about sugar
maples, but there’s red maples that are already there. You’re not taking those out?
MR. LAPPER-No. Those are within the right of way, and we’re talking about adding
them on the property.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. LAPPER-And if you want Norway, they’ll be Norway.
MR. FORD-Any concerns with the parking spaces to the east and the ducting?
MR. DELLA BELLA-The east to the back?
MR. FORD-East side of the property, yes.
MR. DELLA BELLA-No, no, no. Yes, no problem. I’m told never to say it, but you can
stand up there right next to it and you wouldn’t smell it. I mean, that’s how clean it is
now. It’s just unbelievable. So I’m not worried about anything. You mean like staining
the cars or something like that? No, no. No, not at all.
MR. FORD-Good.
MRS. BRUNO-Tom, what’s your front setback at?
MR. LAPPER-Fifty-eight I think.
MR. HUTCHINS-Actual, to building?
MR. HUNSINGER-It’s shown on S-2.
MR. LAPPER-It’s right here. 58.3.
MR. HUTCHINS-Here it is, 58.3.
MRS. BRUNO-Bay Road corridor, we have a building line setback, front, from the street,
75 foot is required.
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MR. LAPPER-That’s absolutely true, but this is an existing structure. Yes. So if it was a
new structure, you’re absolutely right.
MRS. BRUNO-So it’s grandfathered. Okay. Could you describe this building to me a
little bit more than what we’ve got in elevations here, materials, colors, the works?
MR. DELLA BELLA-Currently it’s a steel building with a steel roof. It’s got the front,
almost the whole front of the building is glass. The sides of the building are metal siding,
and the addition will be the same.
MRS. BRUNO-Would you consider at all upgrading the siding to something besides a
metal siding to try to?
MR. DELLA BELLA-Make it look a little nicer?
MRS. BRUNO-Yes.
MR. DELLA BELLA-Yes.
MRS. BRUNO-I’m not sure if we just, if you’ve got somebody on board with doing that, or
if this is still at preliminary level, but that might be something that you can just ask your
designer to maybe push following the design guidelines so that we can maintain, I mean,
I know it’s a commercial, highway commercial intensive, so maybe we can balance it
somewhere in between.
MR. DELLA BELLA-Sure, and I agree with you. Our other buildings, if you’ve seen them
before, the ones on Quaker Road, even the ones on Broad Street, my buildings always
look much better than any other buildings that are around the neighborhood. So we’re
going to make sure that that happens, too. It’s an upgraded collision center.
MRS. BRUNO-Okay. Thank you.
MR. SIPP-The sign out on the Bay Road side, similar to Adirondack bank, monument
type sign?
MR. LAPPER-You have the existing sign that was there. You just changed the copy.
MR. DELLA BELLA-The sign that’s there is existing, and all it was was a copy change at
this time. The place is right where it is. It’s going to stay that way. I don’t have any other
new plans for signage at this time.
MR. HUNSINGER-Any other questions from the Board?
MR. SEGULJIC-The area to the north of the existing building, where you have those 10
spaces, and there’s those trees along the property line, those are going to remain in
place, correct?
MR. HUTCHINS-Well, they’re going to have to, there’s a cut line to the grade. It’s
essentially right at that notch, Tom, we essentially have to take it back to the property
line.
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay. So what I’m getting at is the, if I’m interpreting it correctly, the
landscaping code that says exterior lot landscaping. It says you’re supposed to have
one tree every 250 square feet I think it is, but you can use existing trees.
MR. OBORNE-Linear, linear feet.
MR. SEGULJIC-One shade tree shall be provided for every 250 square feet, or any
portion thereof of a landscaped strip. 80-40.
MR. OBORNE-It is every 250 feet. It shouldn’t be every 250 square feet.
MR. SEGULJIC-Well, it goes into that, your strip has to either be three feet or five feet,
and while you’re looking at it, is there going to be a sidewalk along Bay? I just don’t see
it on your, it is, it’s right there. I’ve got it now. I just didn’t notice it before.
MR. OBORNE-Tom, I have this as one shade tree, three inch caliper minimum, shall be
provided every 250 linear feet or in any portion thereof of a landscape strip.
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MR. SEGULJIC-You have linear feet?
MR. OBORNE-18001. That’s the page.
MR. SEGULJIC-You’re looking along streets. I’m looking along exterior parking lot
landscaping, E of that Section.
MR. OBORNE-How large is the site? Tom, what’s the square footage on the site?
MR. HUNSINGER-It’s labeled on S-2.
MR. OBORNE-It should be on here, right?
MR. HUTCHINS-Yes. It’s on.
MR. HUNSINGER-Asphalt and gravel areas, 9865 square feet.
MR. HUTCHINS-What do you want, parcel area?
MR. OBORNE-Yes, parcel area.
MR. LAPPER-Here it is, 53,862 square feet. So it’s 1.23, a little over an acre.
MR. OBORNE-Okay. Just a little over an acre. I see what you’re getting at, Tom, I
mean, absolutely. I could do the calculations. It might take me a half an hour.
MR. SEGULJIC-But if they’re keeping the existing trees there, that (lost words) that.
MR. OBORNE-That should be fine, but I mean, they have a swale there. I don’t know
how they’re going to be able to keep the trees there.
MR. SEGULJIC-To the north?
MR. LAPPER-There is a drainage swale on the north side because that was the only
place to put it.
MR. OBORNE-I think that precludes having to put any trees there. It’s going to be
difficult.
MR. HUNSINGER-And there’s trees to the rear.
MR. OBORNE-Both sides there’s swales coming right on down.
MR. SIPP-The existing trees that are there is about 20 foot in the front part of that lot,
there’s about, the trees themselves are not the best trees in the world.
MR. OBORNE-Yes, they’re pretty scrubby looking.
MR. LAPPER-Well, one place we could add trees would be right where Mike was talking
about that little jog, towards the north, because that’s not used for the drainage swale,
right where it says iron rod set. There’d be room for some trees.
MR. FORD-That would be a good place for them.
MR. HUNSINGER-That was the other thing, the area, it’s roughly in the area that you’re
acquiring. There are two or three decent trees, you know, larger mature trees. Most of
it’s just scrub stuff, but there are two or three, you know, reasonable sized trees. Are you
going to be able to maintain those?
MR. LAPPER-In the back you mean?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, towards the back where the addition is?
MR. LAPPER-Where the drainage basin is.
MR. HUTCHINS-In the far rear the parcel? I’m not sure about specifics.
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MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. I mean, roughly, they’re roughly in the proposed gravel area
there, to the north of the new addition, in that general area there’s three or four decent
sized trees, this size. They’re like this size. In fact, they’re right near where the, there’s
a dumpster there, there’s a container. They’re right near where the container is off the
back of the building there, near the paint booth.
MR. HUTCHINS-The new building is going, is 26 feet.
MR. DELLA BELLA-It’s 26 feet out.
MR. HUTCHINS-It’s 26 feet further north than the current one.
MR. HUNSINGER-I’m just saying if you can, you know.
MR. SIPP-Yes, but nobody’s going to be driving on that side, right?
MR. DELLA BELLA-We wanted to make sure that was (lost words) we could drive out
around the building.
MR. HUNSINGER-Sure. They’re required to.
MR. HUTCHINS-We can, but not normally. That’s why it’s gravel.
MR. SIPP-Your overhead doors would be to the rear?
MR. HUTCHINS-All the overhead doors are to the south, yes.
MR. SIPP-And therefore, well, we might have, but is there an overhead door on that
northern side?
MR. HUTCHINS-No.
MR. SIPP-No. You’ve got a lot of tree cover there.
MR. HUTCHINS-There’s a lot of tree cover there.
MR. SIPP-You’re going to ruin some of it in the grading process, but it’s quite thick. The
trouble is there it’s junk trees.
MR. HUNSINGER-Mostly, yes.
MR. LAPPER-Yes. So we could add a better quality, few trees right at the corner there
of that jog.
MR. DELLA BELLA-I like greens. I mean, we’ve got some spot to put it, we’ll.
MR. SEGULJIC-Can we put some specifics on that? So when we say we’re talking
about the jog, where the IRS is?
MR. LAPPER-Yes.
MR. SEGULJIC-All right. What are we going to put there?
MR. SIPP-I would put in some, because those popul there are useless trees. Eventually
they’re going to die.
MR. LAPPER-Get blown over.
MR. SIPP-They’re going to get blown down or they’re going to crack under the ice weight
or something like that.
MR. LAPPER-Yes.
MR. FORD-They’re not worth saving, that’s for sure.
MR. SIPP-Start some evergreens there, some spruce or pine or something.
MR. DELLA BELLA-I’m okay with that. I like a spruce, as long as it fits with his design so
I can drive around.
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MR. SIPP-Because you’ve got a possibility of five to seven years before the rest of that
stuff may come down, and five or seven years they may be 10 foot high by that time.
MR. LAPPER-It’s just a question of when you get to the swale.
MR. HUTCHINS-I can make it work.
MR. LAPPER-You can move it.
MR. HUTCHINS-I can make that work.
MR. LAPPER-How many trees? They get pretty big, spruce.
MR. HUTCHINS-What, eight to ten?
MR. SEGULJIC-Eight to ten spruce. Okay. Say ten spruce.
MR. SIPP-Ten foot apart. You’ve got to figure one or two of them are going to die.
MR. SEGULJIC-Ten spruce along northern.
MR. HUNSINGER-Northeast corner of the proposed asphalt.
MR. HUTCHINS-We’re talking about along that northerly line, not necessarily in the
corner.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. SIPP-Where you’re going to remove the fence.
MR. DELLA BELLA-We can spread it out there somewhere, as long as the engineering
that gets the water to the back.
MR. SIPP-You’ve got enough room then..
MR. DELLA BELLA-Okay.
MR. HUNSINGER-I guess all was asking about, the existing large trees, whatever you
can save, and when you stand there and look up, it’s real obvious which ones are worth
saving. The rest are just junk.
MR. SEGULJIC-I’m just struggling with how to describe this location.
MR. LAPPER-If you could say starting at the jog.
MR. SEGULJIC-Starting at the property line jog?
MR. LAPPER-Starting at the property line jog on the north side, and heading east.
MR. OBORNE-Where the proposed wing swale is? Where the northwest?
MR. FORD-It’s the northwest corner of the property and it, technically it is. There’s two
northwest corners, but, you’re right. That would be the northernmost.
MR. SEGULJIC-How about if I say, if I understand this correctly, you have a marker of
155 feet? That’s from the road, I assume? It’s 155 feet east of the property line.
MR. OBORNE-It’s part of your swale, though, isn’t it?
MR. LAPPER-We’ll move the swale a little bit.
MR. HUTCHINS-We’re back beyond, may I come up and make sure we’re talking about
the same thing, Tom?
MR. SEGULJIC-Okay.
MR. HUTCHINS-We’re talking about in this area.
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MR. SEGULJIC-Correct.
MR. HUTCHINS-And in back through here.
MR. SEGULJIC-Correct, and I’m just trying to describe that starting point.
MR. HUTCHINS-Okay.
MR. FORD-In this area here?
MR. HUTCHINS-And we have plantings in there.
MR. FORD-Okay. So it’s along this line.
MR. HUTCHINS-It’s back here.
MR. FORD-Way back there? All right. Then it’s further east than I thought it was.
MR. HUNSINGER-Further west than I thought it was.
MR. LAPPER-We’ve got a lot of shrubs around the sign up front, not tall stuff, but.
MR. SEGULJIC-All right. So what I’m going to say is plant 10 spruce along the northern
property line, starting at 155 feet from Bay Road.
MR. LAPPER-That’s perfect.
MR. SEGULJIC-All right. Anything else?
MRS. BRUNO-We have a public hearing.
MR. HUNSINGER-And we have a public hearing. Any other questions, comments from
the Board? We do have a public hearing scheduled this evening. Is there anyone in the
audience that wanted to address the Board on this project? I will open the public
hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. HUNSINGER-Any written comments?
MR. OBORNE-No, sir.
MR. HUNSINGER-And if there are no takers, I will close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. HUNSINGER-It’s an Unlisted action. What did they submit, a Short Form?
MR. LAPPER-Yes.
MR. SEGULJIC-“Does the action exceed any Type I threshold in 6 NYCRR Part 617.4?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. FORD-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“Will the action receive coordinated review as provided for Unlisted
Actions in 6 NYCRR, Part 617.6?”
MR. KREBS-No.
MR. FORD-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“Could the action result in any adverse effects associated with the
following: C1. Existing air quality, surface or ground water quality or quantity, noise
levels, existing traffic patterns, solid waste production or disposal, potential for erosion,
drainage or flooding problems?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
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MR. FORD-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“C2. Aesthetic, agricultural, historic, or other natural or cultural
resources; or community or neighborhood character?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. SIPP-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“C3. Vegetation, fauna, fish, shellfish or wildlife species, significant
habitats, or threatened or endangered species?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. SIPP-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“C4. A community’s existing plans or goals as officially adopted, or a
change in use or intensity of use of land or other natural resources?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. SIPP-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“C5. Growth, subsequent development or related activities likely to be
induced by the proposed action?”
MR. SIPP-No.
MR. FORD-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“C6. Long term, short term, cumulative or other effects not identified
above?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. FORD-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“C7. Other impacts (including changes in use of either quantity or
energy)?”
MR. SIPP-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“Will the project have an impact on the environmental characteristics
that caused the establishment of a Critical Environmental Area?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. SIPP-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-“Is there or is there likely to be controversy related to potential adverse
environmental impacts?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. FORD-No.
MR. SEGULJIC-I propose a Negative Declaration.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 33-2008, Introduced by Thomas Seguljic who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Thomas Ford:
WHEREAS, there is presently before the Planning Board an application for:
DELLA AUTO GROUP, and
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WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning
Board action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No Federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is Unlisted in the Department of
Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental
Quality Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental
concern and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has
a significant environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of
the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New
York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken by this Board will
have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board
is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a
statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by
law.
th
Duly adopted this 19 day of August, 2008, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Ford, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Sipp, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Traver, Mrs. Bruno,
Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. We do have the comments on plantings and we do have final
signoff from VISION Engineering.
MRS. BRUNO-Are we moving on this, or are we tabling it?
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, we just did SEQRA.
MRS. BRUNO-That was just for SEQRA.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, what’s the feeling of the Board?
MR. FORD-Let’s proceed. That’s my feeling.
MRS. BRUNO-We’ve had, I’m a little uncomfortable because of the building. I know that
Mr. Della Bella has very generously said that he will follow some of the guidelines, but I’d
just like to remind the Board that, with the other buildings going up the road, we did go so
far as to for material boards and full elevations of what will be built. That’s my feeling.
MR. KREBS-For those existing buildings.
MRS. BRUNO-No, they weren’t existing buildings, but where we’re adding on
significantly in an area where we have very specific guidelines.
MR. HUNSINGER-I know before we’ve approved projects subject to submission of paint
schemes and building materials. Just have them come back with exterior finishings,
paint schemes.
MR. LAPPER-Exterior finish when we come back next month.
MRS. BRUNO-I mean, a lot could really be done mixing that, I’m not saying you have to
get rid of the metal building completely.
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MR. DELLA BELLA-It won’t look metal when it’s done. It’s a special material that’s used,
and I put it in a building that I did in Plattsburgh, but it looks like stone, but it’s a metal
building, but you can’t tell it’s a metal building. That’s what it’s going to look like.
MRS. BRUNO-I think I would feel more comfortable seeing some of that, perhaps, you
know, there are different treatments. There’s all kinds of creative different ways of doing
things, and I think I would just, you know.
MR. DELLA BELLA-Right. Do you have something specific that you’d want to see?
MR. KREBS-Are you talking about that material where you use the metal and then you
put like a stucco paint on it?
MR. DELLA BELLA-The efface or the stow, like on our building, it looks like a line in it,
you know, it looks like a trowel line. It’s not flat. It’s not going to look like the aluminum
siding that’s on the building now. That’s a flat aluminum siding. That’s not what it is. It’s
very thick.
MRS. BRUNO-Right. If you’re going on the efface route.
MR. DELLA BELLA-It looks like it, right.
MRS. BRUNO-It looks like it, you know, there are other materials that can be blended in
that. I’m just saying in sensitivity of the fact that, you know, through the Bay Road
guidelines they talk about the residential look and again, I realize this is a different type
of business, but we are trying to have some continuity in the road aesthetics.
MR. DELLA BELLA-You’ll be pleased with the material that I use on the building.
MRS. BRUNO-And what color were you thinking? Do you have an idea? Is it more of a
neutral?
MR. DELLA BELLA-Yes, it is. It’s either a, it’s a, depending on how it’s going to look
best with the size of the, the height is going to be, it’s like an earth tone type of, I should
have brought it. It’s like a grayish or a brownish, that kind of family.
MRS. BRUNO-Okay. What are you, roofing? Are you still doing a standing seam metal
roof?
MR. DELLA BELLA-That’s correct.
MRS. BRUNO-Okay. Any specific treatment on the windows? I don’t mean curtains.
MR. D"ELLA BELLA-Yes, no, I don’t think there’s many windows in the building. There
won’t be, just in the front, that’s all glass and very nicely done, but.
MRS. BRUNO-I think Tom submitted pretty much wall packs. So there isn’t going to be
anything.
MR. DELLA BELLA-The only lighting that we have, we have the two pole lights, and I
think that’s what he was talking about, that, unison or something, but whatever it’s
supposed to be, that they wanted, that the only thing we can have, that’s what we’re
going to have. It’s not going to be anything, it won’t be anything obtrusive.
MR. LAPPER-One pole in front, one pole in back, and then the wall packs.
MR. DELLA BELLA-It’ll be mostly just for safety, you know, the side of the building is
going to be lit up. The bank will be right there. So I’m sure we’re going to have a lot of
light coming from there on that.
MR. LAPPER-Yes, the bank will have plenty of light.
MR. D"ELLA BELLA-The security cameras and everything else.
MRS. BRUNO-I think you know where I’m getting at. We’ve got the bank there, and
more of that Adirondack theme and then you’ve got The Harvest, which looks more like a
smaller house.
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MR. DELLA BELLA-I understand, yes I do, and I think you’ll be pleased with it when it’s
all done. It’ll take us some time, but when it gets all done.
MRS. BRUNO-Okay. Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-What’s the feeling of members?
MR. SEGULJIC-Well, can we, because on another application we, just thinking ahead
here, we granted approval with the condition that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Subject to that they come back with the color schemes.
MR. OBORNE-The hotel.
MR. LAPPER-Yes. Mike would be okay with that, if we could get it approved subject,
we’ll come back next month and bring a piece of this exterior for everybody to look at.
MR. DELLA BELLA-I have it in my office.
MR. SEGULJIC-So, is that what we want to do, then?
MRS. BRUNO-Is there a potential that you could get some more detailed elevations? Do
you have a designer on board, or was Tom your architectural?
MR. HUNSINGER-There’s elevations here that just show the metal buildings.
MR. HUTCHINS-There are elevations there, but they’re very conceptual.
MR. LAPPER-The elevations won’t change, right? But just the material would change.
MR. HUTCHINS-Well, the material will change.
MR. DELLA BELLA-The way that is, the way the building is set’s the way it’s going to
stay, but the material that’s going to be used on it, when the conceptual drawing was
done, was aluminum siding, but that’s not what I use. I use something, and again, I have
it in my office. I could bring it to you tomorrow. You could see, whatever you want to do,
but you’ll like it.
MR. LAPPER-So if we come back with just that, or submit that, that’s simple?
MR. DELLA BELLA-I’ve got absolutely no problem. You’ll be pleased with it. You won’t
be able to tell that’s what it is.
MR. FORD-I would feel comfortable with that. I mean, Michael has a history and a
reputation before this Board, and in our community, and I would feel comfortable with his
coming back with these.
MR. HUNSINGER-I mean, it won’t take ten minutes.
MR. SIPP-You did an excellent job on the front end of your Quaker Road.
MR. DELLA BELLA-That came out beautiful. It really did. Thank you.
MR. SIPP-Buick Pontiac.
MR. FORD-Indicative, also, of your feeling for the community is your good neighbor
approach to the way you have dealt with the Harts and others in this project to date, and
I don’t see any reason why we could anticipate that there’s going to be any change in
that attitude or approach.
MR. LAPPER-Since you mentioned the General Motors building, we also submitted, at
the same time, but we didn’t make the cut, to re-do the façade of the Honda building,
much, much nicer than it is now. So we’ll be, hopefully be on next month, coming back
to fix that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Why don’t we do it the same night, then, if you’re going to be here
anyway.
MR. LAPPER-That would be great.
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MR. HUNSINGER-We don’t have a date set for that, though.
MR. OBORNE-Della Honda will be the first meeting.
MR. HUNSINGER-The first meeting in September.
MR. OBORNE-They’ve been bumped, so they get priority.
MR. HUNSINGER-So bring the materials. Come back on, you sure it’s the first meeting?
MR. OBORNE-I’m positive.
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MR. HUNSINGER-On September 16.
MR. OBORNE-And if it’s not, it will be.
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MR. HUNSINGER-Well, except we’re already loaded up on September 16.
MR. OBORNE-Well, no, if they get bumped from, because they’ve already submitted.
They submitted back in, what, July?
MR. LAPPER-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. They were the first item to get bumped.
MR. OBORNE-Automatically bumped. Yes, so they’re first on the list.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. Okay.
MR. OBORNE-Or second or third, because there were other people bumped.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. SEGULJIC-So we’ll request that they submit building colors and?
MR. LAPPER-It’ll be a sample of the materials.
MR. HUNSINGER-And siding materials.
MR. SEGULJIC-And siding materials.
MR. HUNSINGER-For final review in September.
MR. LAPPER-And that’ll be in the finished color.
MR. DELLA BELLA-Yes, it’ll be in the finished color.
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MR. SEGULJIC-So bring them to the meeting on September 16. Is that what we’re
going to say?
MR. LAPPER-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Again, I don’t know if you need to specify the date.
MR. LAPPER-Whatever the Honda dealership, we’ll be here for both.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. Just, you know, yes.
MR. SEGULJIC-All right. So the conditions, we have the trees along the northern
property line.
MR. HUNSINGER-Final signoff from the engineer. I think that was all I had, and then
just review siding materials and the building colors.
MR. SEGULJIC-So we’re going to approve this, but we’re going to put a condition on it.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
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MR. LAPPER-What Michael would like to do would be to be able to get started with the
building permit application and get started on the expansion, but he’s not going to put the
siding on until this Board has approved it, in terms of the façade.
MR. HUNSINGER-And just say with final colors and building materials to be approved by
the Board in September.
MR. LAPPER-Thank you.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 33-2008 DELLA AUTO GROUP, Introduced
by Thomas Seguljic who moved for its adoption, seconded by Thomas Ford:
1)A site plan application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the
following: Applicant proposes upgrade of existing building and addition of a
4307 sq. ft. building with associated parking and utilities. Expansion of an
allowable use requires Site Plan Review
2)A public hearing was advertised and heard on 8/19/08; and
3)This application is supported with all documentation, public comment and
application material in the file of record;
4)Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code [Chapter
179], the Planning Board has determined that this proposal complies with the
requirements as stated in the Zoning Code; and
5)The requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been
considered and the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration;
OR if the application is a modification, the requirements of the State
Environmental Quality Review Act have been considered, and the proposed
modification[s] do not result in any new or significantly different environmental
impacts, and, therefore, no further SEQRA review is necessary; and
6)Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building and Codes personnel. The applicant must meet with
Staff after approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit and/or the beginning
of any site work. Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building
permits is dependent on compliance with this and all other conditions of this
resolution.
7)NOT APPLICABLE: The applicant will provide as-built plans to certify that the
site plan is developed according to the approved plans prior to issuance of the
certificate of occupancy; and
8)If applicable, Item 7 to be combined with a letter of credit; and
9)The Sanitary Sewer connection plan must be submitted to the Wastewater
Department for its review, approval, permitting and inspection; and
10)MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 33-2008 DELLA AUTO GROUP,
Introduced by Thomas Seguljic who moved for its adoption, seconded by Thomas
Ford:
In accordance with the resolution prepared by Staff. Number Four complies.
Number Five, Negative. Number Seven does not apply. The approval has the
following conditions: That an engineering signoff be obtained. Ten spruce trees,
three inch caliper trees, be planted along the northern property line starting at
155 feet, plus or minus, from Bay Road, and that proposed final building colors
and siding be submitted to the Planning Board for review at the September 16,
2008 meeting.
th
Duly adopted this 19 day of August, 2008, by the following vote:
MR. HUNSINGER-Did you want to specify the diameter of the trees? Usually I
think we had said three inch.
MR. SEGULJIC-Three inch trees, three inch caliper.
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AYES: Mr. Ford, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Sipp, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Traver, Mrs. Bruno,
Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
MR. HUNSINGER-And just, when you think about the colors and siding treatment, take a
look at the Bay Road corridor requirements, and also, I mean, you’ve seen the other
buildings, I mean, I don’t know if you’ve seen the plans for the bank next door, but you
might want to think about a coordinating color with the bank.
MR. DELLA BELLA-Yes. We’ll try and blend in as best we can. We won’t have any
chickens on top of the roof or anything like that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. D"ELLA BELLA-Listen, thank you very much. I appreciate it, but I also appreciate
you guys staying late, ladies staying late. I really do. Thanks very much.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Good luck. Any other business before the Board?
MR. OBORNE-No, sir.
MR. HUNSINGER-You’re going to check on the Vance Cohen business?
MR. OBORNE-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Because it is two separate projects, so we get the right project
number.
MR. OBORNE-I can go ahead and do that. I know that the one project is a building
permit.
MR. HUNSINGER-And the Board can go and take a look at the sites, too, between now
and next Tuesday.
MR. OBORNE-Okay, and I wanted clarification on what did you want. Did you want the
file? Do you want me to get you some information from the file, what the status is?
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, yes, for Cohen. I mean, you know, there were comments about
the one piece of property not being kept up.
MRS. BRUNO-Yes. I don’t know if we can actually specify that per protocol or what
we’re even, you know, if we have the purview to do that. It just almost seems like we’ve
given the okay, that things have really gone the other way, and it really seems to be
affecting the neighboring properties.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. Maybe if you could just pull the approval resolutions on each.
MR. FORD-I think that’s a good idea.
MR. HUNSINGER-You had it on the one project, but not the other.
MR. FORD-I think there’s some non-compliance here.
MRS. BRUNO-Yes. I think so, too.
MR. HUNSINGER-And like I said, in the meantime members have drive by each site
take a look. Tom had raised questions about signs in the parking lot.
MR. OBORNE-Now, this was before I was here.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, they both were.
MR. OBORNE-The building permit, did that require the first one, the one down by?
MR. HUNSINGER-No, they both went through Site Plan Review.
MR. OBORNE-They did?
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MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. OBORNE-That’s my question. Okay.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. I remember both of them, the Scooters, up on the Outlets.
MRS. BRUNO-Yes, that was because it was Special Use Permit.
MR. OBORNE-Okay.
MR. HUNSINGER-And then of course the parking lot was just approved a year ago.
MR. OBORNE-See, I don’t know what the ramifications are as far as his Site Plan.
Because it will run out, I think, in two days.
th
MR. HUNSINGER-That’s right. No, it runs out on the 28, I thought? I thought it was
th
August 28?
th
MR. OBORNE-I know it’s an eight. It is the 28?
th
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, it is the 28, which is why I said we can deal with this next week.
stth
It was approved on August 21, not August 28. This is the 1471 State Route 9. So that
is the Scooters. That is the Scooters go kart. That’s the one that’s coming up first.
MR. OBORNE-And that’s 8/21.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. That’s the one resolution you did provide.
MR. FORD-That’s where that eight came in there.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. OBORNE-And the other one with the hamburger place, or is that the Scooters, the
hamburger place?
MR. HUNSINGER-No, the Scooters is the go kart.
MR. OBORNE-Okay.
MR. HUNSINGER-The parking lot is the, I guess what you’re calling the hamburger
place.
MR. OBORNE-The hamburger place, yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-The parking lot by Great Escape.
MR. OBORNE-And I apologize.
MR. HUNSINGER-That’s okay.
MR. OBORNE-This obviously was not a priority because it was an Admin. item.
st
MR. HUNSINGER-So if they haven’t started construction by the 21 of August this year,
then it expires? So do we have to deal with this tonight? Can we table it until next
week?
MR. FORD-Well, haven’t we just dealt with it by tabling it until next week?
st
MR. OBORNE-I don’t know, maybe you can give it an extension until the 21. I mean, I
think that would be really the way to go.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MOTION TO EXTEND APPROVAL OF SITE PLAN NO. 3-2007 VANCE COHEN,
Introduced by Chris Hunsinger who moved for its adoption, seconded by Stephen
Traver:
To August 26, 2008.
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Duly adopted this 19 day of August, 2008, by the following vote:
MR. OBORNE-Do you want to approve both of those? Because I’m not sure when the
other one was, either now?
MR. HUNSINGER-I don’t know when the other one was. I don’t have the information
here.
AYES: Mr. Traver, Mrs. Bruno, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Sipp, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: Mr. Ford
MR. HUNSINGER-We don’t even have a Site Plan number for the parking lot.
MR. OBORNE-I shall do my duty and dig it up.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MRS. BRUNO-I have one other question for you, and it came to mind driving through the
Outlets the other day. When Swank comes in front of us for their tent, they have to go
through the whole Site Plan Review because they’re out in a parking lot. We all know.
We have the gentleman that does the wood carvings up by Pfaltzgraff. Wouldn’t that fall
under the same heading that he should be in front of us if he’s using that portion of the?
MR. OBORNE-I would imagine. He might have a Transient Merchant’s license. I’m not
quite sure.
MRS. BRUNO-Could you please look into that for us?
MR. HUNSINGER-I know he did once before, years ago.
MRS. BRUNO-Did he?
MR. HUNSINGER-And I don’t know what we decided or what was done with it. He has
been before the Board at least once.
MRS. BRUNO-May have turned into squatter’s rights.
MR. HUNSINGER-Because we had a lot of questions about, you know, public safety
and, you know, safe distances from what he was working on and that kind of thing.
MR. OBORNE-Mrs. Bruno, I’ll look into it. I do have to be candid and I do have to
prioritize at this point.
MRS. BRUNO-Absolutely. I understand. It’s just something I’m putting out there before I
forget it again.
MR. OBORNE-So, I mean, I promise to get it to you before ’09, if that’s at all possible,
but I will write it down.
MRS. BRUNO-Thank you. Okay.
MR. HUNSINGER-Any other business before the Board?
MR. SIPP-I passed out some information on the lake there.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, thanks, Don.
MR. SIPP-There’s more information if you want to go to the website.
MR. HUNSINGER-And then, Keith, you were also going to check on the availability of
the room for a third meeting in September, between now and Tuesday.
MR. OBORNE-What date were we looking for?
MR. HUNSINGER-Typically a third meeting would be on a Thursday.
MR. OBORNE-Okay, of one of the weeks you would have a normal meeting.
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MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, but just in general, I mean, Thursdays is when the room tends to
be available. I think that’s the only reason we do them then. Okay. If there’s no further
business, a motion to adjourn.
MOTION TO ADJOURN THE QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING OF
AUGUST 19, 2008, Introduced by Chris Hunsinger who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Thomas Seguljic:
th
Duly adopted this 19 day of August, 2008, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Sipp, Mr. Ford, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Traver, Mrs. Bruno,
Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Chris Hunsinger, Chairman
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