2004-11-04 SP MTG52
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 591
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. #52
NOVEMBER 4, 2004 RES. 549
7:00 p.m.
TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC
COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR
COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER
COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH
COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER
TOWN OFFICIALS
Town Budget Officer Jennifer Switzer
Town Counsel Bob Hafner
Highway Supt. Rick Missita
Deputy Highway Supt. Mike Travis
Water/Wastewater Supt. Ralph VanDusen
Deputy Water Supt. Bruce Ostrander
Deputy Wastewater Supt. Mike Shaw
Landfill Superintendent James Coughlin
Director of Qsby. Center Kathy Kathe
Dir. Of Community Development Marilyn Ryba
Director of Technology Bob Keenan
Town Assessor Helen Otte
Recreation Director Harry Hansen
Community Development Director Marilyn Ryba
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY SUPERVISOR STEC
1.0 PUBLIC HEARING 2005 TOWN BUDGET
NOTICE SHOWN
Supervisor Stec-Opened the Meeting We have a pretty good turn out from
the public and as usual for these public hearings I see that just about all of
our Department Heads are here so thank you very much Department Heads
for coming out this evening. The only item that we have on the agenda
tonight is a public hearing and before I open the Public Hearing as has been
the towns custom we usually have our Budget Officer provide a presentation
regarding the budget process and the highlights. I know that Jennifer
worked on that this week and I will give the floor to Jennifer and ask that
she go through her presentation. There are copies of the presentation some
copies available on the table here, any of this and the budget are available
from the Town Clerk sometime after tonight. With that Jennifer the floor is
yours, thank you.
Budget Officer Jennifer Switzer-Thank you everyone for coming out on this
wet, cold and dreary night. The purpose really tonight is just to give you a
brief overview of the towns budget how he got to the decrease in the budget
that you will be seeing this year and to answer any questions that you may
have about it after I am finished. Just to get things going, just an overview
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 592
of the Town operations. I know some of you have heard this before, for a lot
of the Department Heads they already know some of this information. But,
what the Town Residents here received in services is a wide variety, and
comes to you I think in a way that no other Town or no other Municipality in
this area provides. Currently there is about a hundred and fifty full time
employees, fifty to a hundred part time employees seasonally that we see
through different recreation programs the highway the cemetery. What they
provide to you are things like again, recreation programs, they provide to
you, your water, your sewer, your roads as far as pickup of the leaves at this
point and the time and the year, the safety of the roads in the winter with
clean up from snow and ice. I just wanted to touch as well from the day to
day things that you see happening around the town and what we do. Some
of the things that are special projects that are above and beyond what the
Department Managers do and this year these are just a few of the things that
have happened here at the Town. We are almost finished creating another
sewer district here in the Town, there is a water extension going on, we have
quite a few recreation projects that have been started and some have been
completed some are near completion, Hovey Park Pond, Hudson Point, Glen
Lake the canoe and small motor craft, not motor craft, small canoes what
not, over at Glen Lake. Town wide reval that is going on in our Assessing
Department and one of the bigger things that is going on right now that you
will see the most impact as far as your tax rates is a bill for service for EMS
and we hope to have that up and running and we will start to collect some
money in the month of December. The Budget Approach This year unlike
in the past we took a little bit different approach to the budget and how we
were going to tackle getting to those final numbers that appear on your tax
bill. Again, the Department Managers have heard what I am going to speak
to probably not once, not twice but three or four times through this process.
The big thing that the Supervisor wanted to achieve has to be with the bell
curve. Anyone familiar with the bell curve knows that it is just what I am
talking about it starts at one point there is a peak and it comes back down.
As far as how that relates to budgeting looking back at the past history of
how we have budgeted here at the Town, the Town Supervisor felt as though
we always budgeted for the hundred-year storm. We would budget here as
if we wanted to accomplish every project that we had on our plate that we
wanted to make sure that if something or anything happened we had enough
in our budget to cover this. What he wanted to do is try to bring it down a
little bit more realistically and say lets only budget for the fifty-year storm
and not the hundred-year storm. So, what we tried to do was in our
approach was let the Town Department Heads know as they were coming in
for their reviews with myself and the Supervisor that this was where we
wanted the direction of the budget to head in and how they could help us
achieve that. Part of achieving this more realistic budget was meeting with
the Department Managers something again that had not been done too
frequently in the past but we wanted to start up again this year. So, as part
of our approach the Supervisor and myself met with each of the individual
Department Managers, reviewed their budgets the requests that they had
brought into us and at that point the cuts that we would like to have seen
made we let them decide how best those cuts could be made and still have
the level of service that we currently have here at the Town. The next part
of the budget approach was and has been in the past is the ability for the
Town Board to review the budget and to meet with the Department
Managers and what we tried to avoid again something that had been done in
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the past was having the Town Board meeting with the Department Managers
and review line by line those cuts that had been made by the Supervisor or
by the Comptroller at that time. What we wanted them to do is know going
in that the budget that the Town Supervisor had passed on to them was
something that all the Department Managers felt comfortable with again,
that they could still provide the level of service that they were providing and
take some of the cuts that they had seen. Once the Town Board had their
budgets again, we met with them for personnel issues and any other issues
that they had concerning an individual department whether it was projects
that they wanted to know about that were currently in progress or those that
they had plans for in the future so that they could make decisions concerning
those within the budget. So, that is how we got to where we are tonight as
far as the preliminary budget. Now, I am just going to get into an overview
of the appropriations or an overview of how we are going to spend the
money and where it is going to be spent. The first couple of slides that we
will be looking at are general town wide funds. These funds include the
general fund, the cemetery, the highway and the solid waste fund. As you
can see from this first slide each and every fund except for the highway fund
has taken a decrease. Just as an aside the increase that you see in the
highway fund is only two point three percent and that includes two
additional full time people and two part time employees to help again, keep
up the condition of the roads where they are at this point in time with the
addition of so many additional roads here in the Town and as you all know
the wonderful pickup service that we have here in the fall and in the spring.
So, that includes most of what you see right there are two additional full
time highway people and two part time people. Just getting into it a little bit
deeper, here at the town, how we spend our money is designated into
different categories, personnel, capital equipment, contractual debt which
consists of principal and interest, employee benefits and inter fund transfers.
For those of you who are not familiar with inter fund transfers it is kind of
an oddity in government it is the ability of the general fund to subsidize the
three other funds that are grouped here the Cemetery, the Highway Fund and
the Solid Waste Fund. Again, if you looked down to the change in each one
of the individual funds as well as down at the bottom to the total general
town operations again you can see that over all we have cut spending in the
Town in general Town wide funds by six hundred and ninety four thousand
dollars. Where did this come from? It came from some capital requests
some equipment requests that we reviewed and said do you really need this.
If someone asked for two maybe we said you only need one. Can you do
with one? The contractual again, that was going back line-by-line and
saying in the past you have only spent a thousand dollars yet you are asking
for fifteen hundred can you trim that extra five hundred dollars and see
where we are at the end of the year? Some of the biggest changes, the
biggest that we saw are employee benefits. Although we do have a fifteen
percent increase in health benefits and under employee benefits there is a
pretty drastic change in the retirement this year and how we are accounting
for retirement which is why there is a twenty four thousand dollar decrease
over all in employee benefits. There were some law changes that Governor
Pataki and the legislature passed in July and as a result we are passing on
some of those changes thorough a decrease in the retirement budget this year
and next year. In moving over to the inter fund transfers you see a rather
large decrease and that is made up of a few things. One is the fact that
Cemetery and Solid Waste who in the past few years have relied on
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subsidizes from the General Fund to have their operations where they were
at that point in time no longer need the subsidizes at the same levels that
they have in the past. That comes again from trimming their budgets and in
the case of Solid Waste we did see an increase in the rates that are charged
to for solid waste pickup at the landfill. Now moving on to the Special
Districts and focusing away from the general town wide operations which
everyone has advantage of and moving on to those Special Districts which
may not necessarily effect everyone and those consist of Emergency
Services, the Lighting Districts, Wastewater and Water, again you will see a
decrease over all in the Town in those Districts in their budgets of one
million one hundred and forty nine thousand dollars or ten point nine percent
decrease. The only thing that I would like to point out here is again as you
can see all of the funds have decreased except for the Wastewater Districts
and that again points back to earlier when I mentioned the addition of a new
district in the Wastewater Department. We will have one new district this
year and last year and have completed one this year as well the South
Queensbury District. So, what you are looking at is a full year of operation
for a newly created district this current year and a completion of a district
and taking on debt next year for the district that will be completed at the end
of this year. Breaking it down as I did and previously with the general town
wide funds, again, personnel, capital and equipment, contractual debt,
employee benefits and inter fund transfers. You can see within each of the
funds where the decreases are and where the increases are.
Supervisor Stec-Jen they cannot see your column it is all the way to the left.
The title the emergency, lighting, wastewater, water
Budget Officer Jennifer Switzer- Up at the very top the very top is
Emergency the next is Lighting, Wastewater and then Water. So,
Emergency Services you are seeing a decrease of four hundred and sixty
nine thousand dollars, Lighting you are seeing a small decrease of two
thousand dollars, Wastewater two hundred and six thousand dollars and
Water, eight hundred and eighty four thousand dollar decrease. So, again
just to recap all the Town Funds, there was a one million eight hundred and
forty three thousand five hundred and three dollar decrease in the total
appropriations for the Town of Queensbury for 2005. You can see by this
that yes, there are three hundred and eighty nine thousand dollars more in
personnel as well as a hundred and thirty eight thousand dollars more in
debt. Those were counter acted by decreases in the Capital and Equipment
the Contractual, Employee Benefits and to a large extent those inter fund
transfers which consists of again, transfers that go to some of the funds like
Cemetery, Highway and Solid Waste and the Special Districts those inter
fund transfers are going from Water, Wastewater into Special reserves or
special projects which were not needed this year and will not be needed in
2005 I should say. The next I just spoke about, yes there is an increase in
personnel and benefits but I wanted to point out that although it appears as
though it’s a rather large number there is only a four percent increase in
personnel and benefit from 2004 to 2005. So, that means that four percent
represents the union increases that are part of our contract that we are part of
right now with the CSEA increases for all of our management and non union
as well as again a fifteen percent increase in health insurance benefits a
twelve percent increase in workers comp and disability and the decrease that
we will see because of retirement, and additional people that is correct.
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 595
Along with the two full time people that we are hiring in highway and two
part time people we have increased staff in the Community Development
area as well as made some part time people full time people in a few other
departments. So, yes, we are increasing our personnel and benefits by four
percent but we are also meeting the demands in those departments that we
see are most necessary at this point in time. It is almost on a daily basis that
you could pick up the newspaper and see something about the Town of
Queensbury as far as their growth and the planning and the building permits
and we are addressing those needs by increasing our personnel so that they
can more readily meet your needs. If you just look down to the very bottom
line in order to achieve that we have gone back through and again asked
people to make cuts where they could be made and still retain a level of
service that we have. So, the non-personnel and benefits you see a thirteen
percent decrease. How does this all affect the tax rates in the town for 2005?
For the past four years there has been no general town tax here at the Town
of Queensbury and that will continue, as well as one of the things I wanted
to point out with this next, with this slide currently here is that the subsidy
from the General Fund which I have spoken to a couple of times the amount
of money that the General Fund is giving to the Cemetery and Highway
Fund and the Solid Waste has decreased so they are becoming more self
sufficient again by taking a look and trimming their budgets and becoming
more of what they should be as a enterprise fund. Moving on to the Special
Districts, I know that this is somewhat small and there is a lot of information
here but it is important information. If you look over to the far right column
you will see that every tax has decreased, except for one which I spoke to
earlier and that is in the Wastewater Department and again that is the South
Queensbury Queensbury Avenue Wastewater District and that is only
because it will be a full year of operation again with a full principal and
interest payment which that district hasn’t seen to this point. I would also
like to point out that the rates that you see here are still under the rates that
were projected under the map, plan and report that was initially presented for
the project. So, yes, there is a seventy point one percent increase but it is
putting those rates where they need to be to operate. Just to summarize now
some of what this means and what we hope can be sustained. In my opinion
some of the key successes that we had this year is I think is an increase in
communication between the Supervisor and the Department Managers and
how we approached the budget process this year. It was something that we
had wanted to, that was had talked about, Dan and I had talked about and I
think for our first stab at it, did a good job of communicating where he
wanted to see the budget and how he wanted to get there and getting the
Department Managers on board with that. Some of the challenges that we
face are continuing the level of service where they are at while still being
physically responsible with the budget, still making sure that we do not start
creeping towards budgeting for that hundred year storm and we try to reach
the middle of that bell curve rather than creeping toward the other end of it.
Again those which I just spoke to are part of our goals as well. We want to
maintain the level of service that you are all seeing here at the Town while
keeping the budget at a point where we can sustain a zero town tax and level
off and keep the other special district taxes where they are. Just to point out
one other thing again it was Dan mentioned the other day to me that in doing
all this, this year I am, it has been part of what has been presented in the
press but as the County goes through their budget he found out the other day
that we have decreased the budget here at the Town of Queensbury and
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along with that we are giving back a million dollars or leaving a million
dollars with Warren County. Right now it looks like that is going to
translate into about a ten percent reduction in your County Tax Rate which is
about fifty-five cents per thousand. So, it may not seem like a lot but to
those people on fixed incomes to those people who have one income to those
people who are just starting out owning a home anything and everything at
this point is headed in the right direction as far as a decrease in taxes. Other
than that unless Dan has any thing to add of course.
Supervisor Daniel Stec-Just a couple of things, but great job Jennifer on the
presentation and also on the last couple of months of your budget work, I
want to thank you. I want to, I just, we are going to open the public hearing
in a minute and I just want to add a couple of things to clarify some of the
points that Jennifer made very well. But, before I do anything else I want to
certainly thank the Department Heads and the Town Board but in particular
the Department Heads for coming this evening I know you normally come to
the public hearing but I want to thank you all for what was in my opinion a
very productive process and a very efficient process that we went through
over the last couple of months. Jennifer and I met with each and every one
of you and we went through each and every one of your budgets line by line
and something that I hope you appreciated that we did during working hours
when we had resources and we were perhaps a little sharper and on top of
our games. She talked a lot about the bell curve and I want to hit on that just
briefly, one more time. I believe that the Town needs to be prepared for the
hundred year storm, I just do not think it is realistic that we are going to have
hundred year storm in every department every year and that is why you
know I do not think it is reasonable to expect that we are going to have to
rebuild ninety percent of the towns highways the same year that we are
going to replace seventy percent of the waste water system and double our
building permits application every year. So, I thought it was a reasonable
approach to try to pull back from that level of funding the Department Heads
were, understandably were nervous about the new approach, the first budget
that we did together with me initiating the process for the Supervisor’s
Budget. But, I think in the end I was very encouraged that the Department
Heads signed a memo to the Town Board stating that you were comfortable
with your level of participation in the budget preparation and that it was a
budget that you all felt that you could live with and do your jobs effectively.
I want to assure the Town that the Department Heads were very protective of
making sure that they had adequate funding to make sure that they get the
job done next year at a level of service that we have all become accustomed
to and enjoy and I think Jennifer did point out at levels that perhaps other
communities in the area do not enjoy. I appreciate their support and I
appreciate the Town Boards support in giving me and Jennifer the flexibility
to go at the budget the way that we did. I can tell you that the Town Board
did participate in all of the decisions about staffing and staffing levels and I
was comfortable with all the changes. I do not think there were many
changes that were made but I think that every change that the Town Board
decided to make to my budget I could support. But, I thought that they also
did a good job asking questions and I think that perhaps the Town Board
appreciated the different level or the being able to step back from the going
over line by line again which I am sure they did individually privately and
had opportunities to ask Department Heads questions. I think we were able
to put our time to better use when we met with the Department Heads asking
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 597
the bigger picture projects about where we are going with certain projects or
trends that we see looking down the road two or three years rather than
looking at a line item. I thought that the Town Board support in this was
very helpful as well. The only other thing I wanted to touch on we talk
about padding in the fifty or the hundred-year storm and the bell curve. In
my analysis of things there are four levels of padding in our budgets. I am
not saying it is wrong, I just think it is something that we should me mindful
of when we decide is this budget going to work? There are literally
thousands and thousands and perhaps tens of thousands of lines in this
budget that will change next year after we adopt the budget, Jennifer will
consolidate some of these lines to make the accounting end a little simpler.
It is a recommendation of the State Comptrollers Office that we pursue that
and I think that will help Department Heads and Jennifer’s Office as well.
But, she made a couple of analogies there are individual lines that
historically we would budget for two thousand dollars and you look back
over the last couple of years of spending and we only spend thirteen hundred
so there is padding in these individual lines. Again of which there are a
thousands. Then of course most departments have a misc. line, misc.
contractual, misc. this, so that is an added portion where Departments can
reach in mid year if something unforeseen comes up within their department.
In addition to that the Town for General Fund this does not apply to Special
Districts but certainly for General Funds like Planning like Recreation, IT,
Historian, Wastewater, I am sorry not Wastewater, Cemetery, Solid Waste
that there is a contingency line in the Towns budget and then the fourth level
of padding of course is the much talked about much reported about surplus
that the Town is fortunate to enjoy. So, I thought, what I told the Town
Department Heads was that I would rather, I would rather have them miss on
a departmental level or on an individual line level I would rather them miss
and come in a little over a tighter or aggressive budget then come easily
under an inflated budget. I think in the end it increases some spending
discipline it makes Department Heads and the Town Board and the Budget
Officer watch the spending a little more carefully and I think in the mean
time though again we did not pull back to the ten year storm we are still at a
fifty year storm kind of mind set. So, the budget is still very healthy in my
opinion, I am not complaining about it but there is still contingency
provisions in this budget as well. As hopefully people saw the cuts were
across the board they were not targeted at any single department or any
single area. We systematically added because of people and because of
health care costs and workers comp costs you saw that the personnel lines in
all the categories had generally gone up and then every other category in
every other department generally went down. I will disclose that in the
interest of complete fairness so as Ralph doesn’t look too good with his
peers but I think everyone knows this, and I say it a little flippantly that a big
chuck of why his was down was because there was a budget item last year
for seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars water tank replacement that we
did not budget for again. So, his numbers although still down were not truly
down to the magnitude that he saw, but besides that I think everything else
was as Jennifer described as far as there was no silver bullet cut that
magically made the budget look better, it was a combination of all the
Department Heads putting their heads together taking a little bit of faith and
cutting the budgets where they could and next year we will find out. We
will find out how it goes and if we accomplish coming in under this budget I
suspect that it will, I also assure you that I will be working hard to make sure
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that it does. But, there is adequate, there is still adequate room wiggle room
in there. With that, that is just what I wanted to add to Jennifer’s
presentation, I do not know if there is any Town Board Members comments
before I open the public hearing and then certainly there could be more
comments from Town Board Members during that and after wards and I
want the public to know that after tonight’s public hearing the budget will be
thth
on the agenda for the November 15 budget, November 15 meeting. That
is where we anticipate adopting the budget formally. So, with that I do not
know if any Board Members or our Attorney or Darleen have any comments
they want to make before I open the public hearing. I will open the public
hearing at this time and ask anybody from the audience any members from
the public or certainly Department Heads you know are also members of the
public not all of you are town residents but you all certainly have an interest
in this process, but if there is anyone that would like to address the Town
Board on this budget or any matter related to the budget we would be happy
to try to answer any questions? Yes, Mr. Nussbaum, please would you
please ask for the public comment or public hearing portion that you just
come to the microphone and state you name and address for the record.
Thank you.
Mr. Scott Nussbaum-Mr. Scott Nussbaum 31 Linette Lane Forgive my
notes because I do not want to misspeak on anything. Sometime ago you
spoke and said it was premature to get into the specifics on anticipating the
proportional similar reduction in fire spending in taxes and then EMS you
did not want to hinder the level of high level of fire protection that we have
enjoyed here in the Town and everything. The difference in EMS budget is
really the reduction of twenty percent is really the difference in the fact that
you guys are going billing and I would like to know if you could share the
difference in what you are doing with the fire budget since the difference is
billing and we are not able to bill with fire like you can with EMS and the
fact that you showed a four hundred and sixty nine thousand dollar plus
difference here tonight and the money has already been raised for 2005 on
our taxes from the year prior. Right? That money is regulated by law as to
what you can do in transfers so maybe you can explain to us I mean that is
Fire and EMS combined the four hundred and sixty nine thousand I
understand that but the difference for fire alone is proportionally a lot higher
so maybe you can explain to everybody for our understanding what is being
done with that?
Supervisor Stec-I will ask Jennifer to try to pull that back up and she could
probably address some. While she is doing that I will try to address some of
what you had said. The way that we collect taxes for Fire and EMS is that
next year the January tax bill we need to know before the January tax bills
go out how much money we need to raise in taxes, but the money that we
spend in 2005 will be collected in January 2005. Like most other accounts
in the Town funds this Special District and I guess it is how we would
classify Emergency Services is a Special District Tax it does have, there is a
fund balance present with that as well. It is not nearly as large as the Towns
General Fund, fund balance. The top line there is the emergency and I
believe that is what you are talking about, or I think there was a different
slide Jen, I thought it was
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 599
Budget Officer Jennifer Switzer-Is it with the tax rates, is that what you are
talking about?
Supervisor Stec-I thought it was with the tax rate.
Budget Officer Jennifer Switzer-Ok. Right here.
Supervisor Stec-Is that it?
Budget Officer Jennifer Switzer-Yes.
Mr. Nussbaum-It is reduction of thirty three point five percent over all but
the fire there well,
Supervisor Stec-I know what number you are talking about. The slide
before that…
Mr. Nussbaum-The money has already been raised for the year prior.
Supervisor Stec-No, we collect it next year, we collect it in January.
Budget Officer Jennifer Switzer-What you are seeing here are taxes that will
be collected in January and what you are seeing here is the budget that will
be used next year.
Mr. Nussbaum-So, what you are saying is the money for 2005 budget that
we have not gotten yet in our
Supervisor Stec-Is collected next year.
Mr. Nussbaum-Is collected in 2005
Supervisor Stec-Correct with this budget. That is a true statement.
Mr. Nussbaum-Because what we we’re showing was different so we wanted
Supervisor Stec-You mean here?
Mr. Nussbaum-No What we were lead to be, is understand to believe was
that the money was collected in the year prior when we pay our taxes as of
January in our tax bill what year will that and our fire tax and our bill is for
the year prior not the way, so where our tax bill is for the school district and
everything that is collected differently?
Supervisor Stec-I do not know about school.
Mr. Nussbaum-I am just trying to understand how it is all
Budget Officer Jennifer Switzer-Schools are, they aren’t because they are on
a different fiscal year that is true, you are paying in September from July
through June of the next fiscal year. So, they are
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Mr. Nussbaum-Ok, so the Fire Taxes collected on the same year that you are
paying us at the firehouse. Ok.
Budget Officer Jennifer Switzer-That is correct.
Mr. Nussbaum-Another question is, is that you also said that you felt more
control on the budget could be gained if work was done on the budget up
front and so there were a lot of executive sessions and special board
meetings in August to discuss fire contracts and one in September to discuss
fire and ems and at a regular Board Meeting you said you noted there was a
great deal of work to be done on the fire budget. Jennifer mentioned that
you guys met three or four times with the Department Heads here alone, this
is my third contract negotiation that I will be getting into and I was
specifically designated by our fire company to be one of the negotiators and
I could tell you that I cannot remember not having had numerous contract
talks with the board prior to coming before the Town to discuss like we are
tonight a budget for the town to discuss as to what the board you know has
planned for the town. Having at least having a tentative budget agreed upon
with the Board as to what the fire companies would like and for the board to
be comfortable planning for your storm as it where that you keep talking
about to be prepared for everything. Doesn’t for me personally doesn’t feel
comfortable so, if you feel that so much work had to be done I would also
like to know why my phone call wasn’t at least returned before Tuesday that
I called to find out if we were meeting when we were meeting. When I met
with you on the other issue about the retirement why we have not met more
often as a group and, for the guys that are doing the job to sit and discuss
maybe you can explain to us why we are not meeting if we were as much a
part of this budget process.
Supervisor Stec-I would be happy to and I will try to do so to your
satisfaction. The Town has put together those executive sessions that you
asked about was to put together a direction and decide what direction we
wanted to communicate to the leadership of the five fire companies. The
numbers that I have on the Rolodex is the Chief and the President of all five-
fire companies and that is who I have been talking to those ten individuals. I
have been doing so regularly with all of them for several months. As far as
the storm or whatever we did communicate on several occasions the
direction that we are heading the big item the big question mark of course
for fire as far as dollar and cents that is the restricted vehicle fund. This very
week we met with, I met with two companies Chief’s and Presidents,
Jennifer met with a third that I was not able to meet to. West we tried
several times to set up a similar kind of sit down for kick off and explanation
of the matrix that I am not sure whether or not how the communications at
West work whether or not it was shared with the Board or Members but they
were the Chief and Presidents were also sent the same matrix that all five
fire companies got as to what the proposed level of spending for contracts
for next year were. We need to have, there is a lot of work to be done we
will be moving forward to work out the exact dollars and cents but likewise
as Jennifer pointed out with many other departments, department budgets
and I talked about the four levels of contingency and you had alluded to
earlier that you asked how we collected the taxes and the answer was the
taxes that you get in January is for that year. Now, in January of this year,
certainly we collected taxes for fire and ems based on a contract that had not
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 601
been negotiated yet we actually signed contracts I believe in February this
year but we had already had collected a tax based on an assumption that was
made last year. Now that assumption did not hold true in the sense that
some things, some good things happened in change with the EMS the bill for
service, budget negotiations with them that ultimately their budgets for 2004
were significantly lower than the taxes that we had collected so we had
gained a surplus in the area of Fire and EMS. Now, additionally there was
already a pretty healthy fund balance before the beginning of this year. So,
there is right now a fund balance now what we have proposed here is
allocating seventy five thousand dollars from that fund balance to both Fire
and EMS or a total of a hundred and fifty thousand. We did come up with a
proposed and a budgeted about what we need to accomplish when we adopt
a budget is that we need to accomplish that we have set a tax rate and are
going to raise enough money by taxes to cover our expenses. Now, the key
assumption that we are going to make is that we are going to raise enough
taxes to cover what the contracts turn out to be. We may not sign a contract
until you know December, probably will be in December. I can assure you
that because of that fund balance that there is more than adequate funding
available for any conceivable budget that this Board would or contract that
this Board would approve. So, the monies, the bottom line is for the budget
we need to know that we have got enough money to pay our fire contracts
whenever they come in and unless the fire contracts somehow all of a
sudden spike through the roof unexpectedly and from the months of
conversations that I have had with all the Chiefs and Presidents although we
do not necessarily see eye to eye and agree on an exact dollar amount I have
been assured by the ten individuals that I have talked to that our numbers are
in the ball park where coupled with the fund balance that we have any final
numbers that we develop will certainly have taxes for. I do not discount at
all that we do have a lot of work to do to finalize a budget number, I can tell
you that the EMS contracts that were much talked about and reported took a
good six to eight weeks to finalize this year and again that was, so we were
two months late in adopting the budget and that was fine you know the
Town knew it going in that we did not have a budget the out going Town
Board last year decided and I agreed with the decision to hold off until this
year to negotiate it. So, it was not the end of the world that, that budget was
late it is not a practice that I want to continue to encourage. I think we
should have contracts in place before contracts expire. But, the EMS budget
a lot of, most of the time that we spend on EMS was negotiating, bill for
service; we talked about consolidation, and paid daytime service. The actual
portion of the meeting, the actual time that we spent face to face meeting
with the rescue squads to work out their contract budgets was done with all
three of them in the same room, one night, that portion of the discussion
took less than an hour. So, I am not suggesting that we would be that
fortunate with fire but clearly I think that sitting down toward the end of this
month and into next month and frankly you know, we have had a lot on our
plate this year and it was the kind of thing that we said lets make sure that
we have got enough money in the budget to cover whatever the contracts
could possibly be and I think that we have done that. What we need now to
do is to just finalize a specific number and that may take a couple of
meetings and of course we know that it needs to be approved by each
companies board of directors and ultimately the membership as well as the
Town Board. But, I am confident that what we have, the money that we
have set aside to raise for next year in taxes coupled with available
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 602
inappropriate fund balance is certainly more than enough to cover any
feasible scenario for contracts.
Councilman Strough-I think I understand this Scott, if I understand this
right, Dan, this preliminary budget we are supposed to meet with the EMS
and the Fire people and discuss their budgets.
Councilman Brewer-Each and everyone like we do every year.
Mr. Nussbaum-The way we have always done it in the past is that we have
always gotten together as a group with the full board
Supervisor Stec-And we will be doing it.
Councilman Brewer-And we will be doing that.
Mr. Nussbaum-and had at least one or two meetings in like starting in
August so that we had it all settled you know, September …
Councilman Brewer-I do not ever recall doing it in August.
Supervisor Stec-I do not recall doing that early either.
Councilman Strough-I am new but I have been
Mr. Nussbaum-We have started at least in August because we have had July
was our requirement to get to you our five year plan and all the requirements
starting with Henry, July is when we have to turn in our stuff and we started
in late August, the end of August in September and then everything has been
done right after that. So, then that is when we started with our preliminary
meetings at least and then we finalized everything so we had everything in
st
place. December 31 is when it is up.
Supervisor Stec-And again, I want to point out and I think Jennifer hit on it
earlier, I did the budget very differently with the Department Heads this year
and I am not necessarily signing off that I thought that the four years before,
the other four years that I have been on the Town Board that the Town went
about Fire and EMS contract negotiations to the greatest success. I mean we
did EMS very differently this year and EMS has much, much better service
for much, much lower cost now. All I can tell you Scott, is that I have been
in regular communications with the five Presidents and Chiefs of all five
companies. I am under the assumption that they are communicating what we
have communicated. I know that you have gotten at least two if not three
pieces of mail over the last couple of months from the Town proposing the
direction of contracts. I can tell you this that the discussions that I have had
with the Chiefs and Presidents I have indicated that it is the Towns general
intent that we want to simplify the language in the contract we want the
language in the contract to be a little more user friendly not only for the
Town but also for the companies. We do recognize the importance for fire
protection and I should probably point out now since there are several of you
here, because you do not hear it often enough and I know you do not hear it
publically enough that the service and the volunteers that you guys provide
is deeply, deeply valued by everyone in the Town but specifically the five of
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 603
us at the table. But, we want to make sure that you have every piece of
equipment and apparatus that you need to do your job and do it well. No,
Town Board wants to skimp on service for fire protection or EMS
protection. We want to make sure that we have enough to get the job done, I
think in the past that we have. You can always spend more I mean you can
go to the extreme where we have snowplow trucks stationed every mile on
the road and an ambulance on every other street corner. Obviously and I am
not saying that you guys are suggesting that at all, I am just saying that you
know the decision about where to draw the line for how much is too much
funding is a difficult one and that’s the negotiation that we need to move
forward on. That conversation has been happening back and forth between
individual Town Board Members and members of the Fire Departments but
as far as I will just speak for myself and the Town day staff, the staff of the
Department Heads that we have been in regular communication with the all
the Chiefs and Presidents. We have had several meetings with some
Departments, fewer with others, very frequent phone calls in fact today I
spoke with both John Wells and John Carpenter this morning I was not able
to make a meeting but Jennifer met with the Chief, President and Treasurer
of Queensbury Central, yesterday afternoon Councilman Turner and
Jennifer and I met with the Chief, President and I believe Treasurer of Bay
Ridge and Monday, Councilman Boor and I met with five different members
from North Queensbury. So, this very week we have been very busy in
actual face to face meetings, the only face to face that I have not been able to
put together and it is just our calendars haven’t been lining up is your Chief
and President but I have talked to both of them on numerous occasions and
frankly most of what I would have said to them in person I could
communicate over the phone, it is just that I would prefer to do it in person.
But, we do have a lot of work to do on the contracts but I just want to assure
you that any contract that we are going to sign we have got enough money in
the budget to cover.
Mr. Nussbaum-I am glad you brought up a couple of things there, one was
the retirement incentive that you had promised us at that one meeting that if
necessary you would pass, try to pass a resolution on and the Governor did
sign that law into effect.
Supervisor Stec-You mean as far as the retirement the Penflex retirement
Mr. Nussbuam-The extra seven hundred dollars then I did not notice that
anywhere in the budget that increase.
Supervisor Stec-I can address that and that is the memo that you asked about
at the last meeting John, we, if we were going to put it on the referendum,
because it has to go on the referendum, on the ballot it is not a , changing
that is not anything that the Town Board is empowered to do that, it requires
a mandatory vote. It also in order to get on the ballot I think we had a
th
deadline of what was the deadline, August 27 or
Budget Officer Jennifer Switzer-And it really doesn’t have to do at this point
because your service awards are paid in the following fiscal year what you
see in the 2005 budget covers your 2004 service so even if the public does
decide to accept this increase to seven hundred dollars that will not be
addressed to 2006 budget.
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 604
Supervisor Stec-But, just to add to that the Governor signed that long after it
would have been impossible to make I believe, it would have been
impossible to make the other days ballot. So, we are looking at next
November or and I do not think there is a reason not to try to do it earlier but
I know that the Post Star reporter is here and he is probably got a story in
tomorrows paper regarding progress that has been made or lack of progress
that has been made or progress update on the rec center. Now, there is an
example of something that doesn’t have to go to vote but the Town Board
felt, you start talking about spending fifteen million dollars on a building, if
we can send it to a vote we thought that it was a good idea and we do intend
to do that. We did not make the deadline back in September to put it on the
nd
November 2 ballot, but, I forgot where I was going with this, sorry
anyways we..where was I going.
Budget Officer Jennifer Switzer-You are addressing just the idea whether it
is in the budget or not and it does not need to be in the budget at this point.
Supervisor Stec-Right, and there may yet be a special election for that and if
there is and we did budget for next years, this budget that we proposed does
include I think it was about twelve thousand dollars or so for a special, we
did put money aside in case we do have a special election for the purpose of
a referendum for the rec center and frankly you know, politically it would be
nice to say hey, we are getting a little bit more bang for our buck by the
same time we can also there will be at least one opportunity next year, I
guess the bottom line to put that in. But that has to go to the public for a
vote. The Town Board cannot change that. I think the Town Board
certainly is willing to look at it, that and the other list of items that were
ideas that were generated that night, that was what was referred to in that
memo John, that we have time to deal with it but we do, that has been passed
to our Attorney. We do have every intention to pursue those and I am glad
you brought up Penflex and I know that was the first meeting that we have
had on that in several years as the Penflex guy as I call him, I cannot
remember his name,
Budget Officer Jennifer Switzer-Ed Holohan
Supervisor Stec-Ed told us and that was the first time in several years that
we had had that sit down and I was not even aware that, that was supposed
to be an annual sit down but I am glad that we had it and they both said that
this is the first time as of that night that was the first time in several years
that the Town, not you guys but the Town was completely caught up in all of
our Penflex paper work. I know that you were there and I think there were
representatives from every fire company so hopefully that gave you a little
more confidence you know that some of these things that haven’t always
gone smoothly between the Town and the Fire Company that this Town
Board and certainly Jennifer and at the time Sharon was coordinating that as
well that we were taking seriously that we wanted to be caught up that we
wanted to clean up our house and get things squared away. The idea is that
we thought were good ones we know what they are and it is just a matter of
getting that worked into our schedule too, but we are going to pursue them.
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 605
Mr. Nussbaum-The thoughts on the fact that you guys cut the vehicle truck
funds?
Supervisor Stec-Well, that is the main thing that we are talking about now
the vehicle truck funds and we did cut them for EMS and I can tell you they
had the same kind of hand wrangling that we have got now.
Mr. Nussbaum-But it was cut for fire too according the letter that I have got.
Supervisor Stec-Well, let me finish. We cut them in the two thousand and
four budget back when we signed the contracts with EMS in February of this
year. Their budget removed those and that is a big part of the reason why
their budget was down. So, they already agreed back in January and
February of this year to drop their vehicle fund. The conversations that
Jennifer has had with the rescue squad presidents and I have had a couple
with Sandy but I know Jennifer has talked on and off with all of them no one
has mentioned to me that they have any intention to ask for them back.
Basically what we assured them, no one has told me…I am talking about
EMS I just want to update and the EMS had issues with that, EMS was
concerned about taking the cuts that they took. I do not want to get a war
going between EMS and Fire but you can imagine Fire Companies talk
about each other, Rescue Squads talk about each other and Fire and EMS
and not all, and certainly no one in this room. But, I know there is always
talk back and forth about this company this and you know you are doing this
to the Fire what about EMS or hey you are doing this to EMS what about
Fire? That there was concern about us you know going after picking on
EMS I mean some individuals said why are you guys picking on EMS? You
like Fire better than EMS? We heard all that but in the end they did take this
on faith that what we said was and it is easier to do with ambulances because
ambulance apparatus is a lot less expensive than fire apparatus and we
recognize that. But, they did say yea, we can get by without this. We are
having a philosophical discussion here about what to do with vehicle funds
that is one item that I think would be best if we could resolve by the time
that we adopt the budget and that is what I have been trying to resolve That
is what I have been trying to resolve this week because when you add up all
the fire ones that is two hundred and fifty thousand dollar, two hundred and
forty thousand dollars when you add up the five of them. The Town Board
did communicate that back in July or August that we wanted to go that way
and then of course the spread sheet that we sent about a month or so ago also
included zeroing that out. So, the Fire Companies have been aware of that
and I can tell you that there is hesitation out there and really what the
discussion and not to get into too great detail but there is an accounting
philosophy or accounting principal out there and certainly amongst
government that an asset should be paid for by the people that benefit the
use of the asset, whether it is a fire truck or whether it is a new building.
Anything that you find, a rec center
Mr. Nussbaum-I look at it as though, think about your children and what I
do I am putting money away if I possibly can for my child to go to school
now so that when she is old enough to go to school she doesn’t have to work
to pay for her college education. So, I am thinking as though we put this
fund together way back when so that when we do need a fire truck the
money is there in the bank take it now and pay for it so that if three of us all
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 606
need a replacement at the same time, that is why we put the schedule
together so that you can see when things are being replaced and you have an
idea. Instead of all of a sudden oh we need a bond issue now to pay for three
trucks all at the same time.
Councilman Brewer-But if we plan properly we do not need to buy three
pieces of apparatus at the same time.
Supervisor Stec-That is just it lot of it is planning
Mr. Nussbaum-Sometimes they do that is the way they fall out.
Supervisor Stec-We will have buildings that will be getting paid for we are
looking at other debt that will be coming off, you are right there could be
situations where we have a couple of new pieces that are coming on at the
same time but we will also have other pieces that are dropping off, that is a
discussion really that we are having. But, now as far as fire projection goes
it is my opinion so I do not want to put words in anyone else’s mouth but
you do have the decision isn’t whether or not we are going to buy a piece of
apparatus, the decision really is how does the town want to pay for the
apparatus? How do we want to tax our people? I think that the debate that
we are having isn’t a level of fire protection service or public safety as much
as it is certainly more how do we want to tax the residents how do we want
to finance.
Mr. Nussbaum-We are extremely cognizant of that because we pay just like
everybody else and for many many years West has paid for our own
equipment. We are one of the few guys
Councilman Boor-Let me interject here just for a second because one of the
things that we are also going to look at and I think everybody on this Board
kind of, is surprised that up until now or recently we haven’t ever thought of
actually putting replacement for all five departments on one sheet so that we
have an idea, all right look at, West is looking at getting this in 2007 we
have got North that is going to want this in 2010. I mean to really do a good
job of managing and understanding when assets are going to be called upon
we need to see the big picture. It is a simple thing to do and we are going to
do it. Like I say it amazes me that it has not been done in the past, so that
we would know when the big balloon is coming.
Mr. Nussbaum-When a fire company has to come back and say we want to
upgrade air packs to a newer version and a fire company had come up here
and said we need to reiterate the same justification that a fire company came
up here two years before and spouted the same thing all over again and it is
like.
Councilman Boor-That is why we want it all.
Supervisor Stec-But we have changed too.
Mr. Nussbaum-I understand that but it is like let me just pull up the meeting
minutes from two years ago and say it is the same thing, all we are doing is,
it is like…
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 607
Supervisor Stec-You get a little turn over on our boards too and that’s
Mr. Nussbaum-It is the same thing, so I mean, that is just, what we are trying
to say too, is that as taxpayers we do not want to see our taxes go up either,
personally I think that you know we are one of the fire companies that we
have paid for almost all of our apparatus up front,
Supervisor Stec-You are the exception of the rule, I agree with West.
Mr. Nussbaum-We have done a lot of our own fund raising in the past and
we are aware of what is going on so we do not want to see that, we have had,
whether you agree with a lot of the politics that a lot of these of some of our
politicians have in the past but there has been lot of bipartisan support from
Assemblywoman Sayward, Sweeney, Bruno, Little and all of them President
Bush they fought seriously hard to get us all sorts of grants to fund fire and
ems services and when we look at the budget and see that tax dollars being
cut from us and we are also paying into the funds it is just, it upsets us when
you see that and you read the meeting minutes and you say, well gee look at
this dramatic project going on at the Hovey Pond and we found.
Councilman Brewer-..seriously cutting your operating fund though, there is
a big difference.
Councilman Boor-And also one is fire tax and the other is general fund.
Mr. Nussbaum-When you look a budget and you see, you know, you see
quotes in here that say that we are very fortunate to be sitting on a lot of
money and we see a rainy day fund of x millions of dollars that the Town is
sitting on
Councilman Boor-But you know that they are not, we cannot transfer.
Supervisor Stec-We cannot transfer them.
Mr. Nussbaum-You can always buy us something that we needed it.
Councilman Boor-We cannot take it out of general funds.
Supervisor Stec-We cannot transfer, it is a Special District.
Mr. Nussbaum-I understand that but I am just saying if we needed
something and it pinched you know
Councilman Brewer-When have you had something that you were in a pinch
that you needed that you did not get? In the last four…I am following
Mr. Nussbaum-You are not following what I am saying.
Councilman Brewer-You are not following what I am saying. We could
debate this all night but it is not necessary.
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 608
Mr. Nussbaum-When you read something that says that we are being cut and
our truck fund has been taken away from us.
Councilman Brewer-But it is not your money Scott, it is the taxpayers
money and we are easing the burden on the taxpayers.
Mr. Nussbaum-I am also a taxpayer.
Councilman Brewer-Understood I am too.
Mr. Nussbaum-So I am following both sides of this coin.
Councilman Brewer-I understand we have different philosophies.
Mr. Nussbaum-When I sit there and I say you have saved me fifty bucks this
year and I say woo-hoo .
Councilman Brewer-Well maybe you do not need the fifty bucks but maybe
there are people that do.
Mr. Nussbaum-For me personally you know what fifty bucks and I donate a
lot more than that to all sorts of worthy causes.
Councilman Brewer-Understood.
Mr. Nussbaum-Then I see and I go look at the beautiful flowers they planted
there and I wonder how much that cost me in taxes. Do you follow what I
am saying?
Councilman Boor-Yes, but I think it is really important that you understand
that we do not have a town tax, we have fire tax we have ems tax we have
district taxes, local district taxes but we cannot take money that we would
spend on Hovey Pond Recreation and give it to Fire and EMS, Water or
Sewer you cannot legally do that.
Mr. Nussbaum-Right, so then you could go and you could take that extra
money instead and send it up to the County and reduce my taxes that way.
Councilman Boor-We did
Councilman Brewer-We have done that.
Councilman Boor-We just did that.
Councilman Brewer-Ten percent.
Mr. Nussbaum-Do you understand what I am trying to, what I am trying to
get at?
Supervisor Stec-Yes, I do
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 609
Mr. Nussbaum-The concept when you read something and you go gees you
know they are cutting from here but they are spending from here if you
wanted to really reduce it
Supervisor Stec-As Tim Brewer was pointing out though that
Mr. Nussbaum-I understand what you are saying.
Supervisor Stec-And almost all the cuts that we propose
Mr. Nussbaum-But you are not feeling what I am trying to say either, so.
Councilman Brewer-I understand exactly what you are saying but we and I
as a Town Board Member would never jeopardize your operating funds any
of the companies to put in jeopardy the service that we receive. That truck
fund is a pie in the sky, it is a savings account that if you want to buy a piece
of equipment but by philosophy in this Scott is when you do that you are
taxing the people not only once you are taxing the twice because when you
make the purchase that is debt that we have to pay so we are paying that in
taxes this year and we still putting the money away. So, why do I want to
tax everybody twice?
Supervisor Stec-To wrap this up because there are two
Mr. Nussbaum-I would rather put it away, that is my concept.
Councilman Brewer-I understand that.
Supervisor Stec-and they are both valid, if it was a slam dunk the Town
Board would be saying we are not going to talk to you about it but we have
not done that, you talk to your Chief and President, we have asked very, very
nicely many times and we are hopeful that we will convince them to try it
our way. But, the point that you raise, you put it away ahead of time. There
are two equal philosophies and what we are saying we like this one, we are
not saying that the other one is out to lunch we are just saying that this was
the one that is best for the Town and that is the conversation that we are
going to have. We are hopeful that, if resolve that one, any differences and I
will point out that almost all the cuts that you see in Fire is the vehicle fund
or obviously there is one other department that we have been talking with
that is, that is still going on but they have already volunteered a good chuck.
The other four companies are just about flat, zero budgets or well actually
we proposed to West specifically a flat budget operationally. Anything we,
typically and Jennifer pointed out historically the Town automatically hey
we will give you another three percent, give you another three percent, I am
here to tell you that there is enough contingency in the fire account that we
have got that. I do not want to put it on the table and say, we will give
everyone another three percent. Worst case scenario any contract that we
would adopt we have got the tax money either we are going to raise it or it is
already in the account to cover next year. So, you know as far as do you
sense that maybe we are a little behind where we would normally would be
this time as far as how far into negotiations we are that might be true, but we
know about where we are going to end up and we I just want to assure
everybody that there is adequate funding to make sure that whatever we do
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 610
the one kicker that we need to work out is, we need to know, we need to
come to some sort of understanding with the five fire companies what we are
going to do about the restricted vehicle fund and we started that conversation
you know a few months ago. So, I communicated that to all the companies
this week that by the end of next week we really want to be on the same
page and as far as how fast can we turn around a vote of the Board of
Directors or vote of the, we are not adopting a contract until the end we need
to get an indication from the companies and I can tell you that the Board
would like to be consistent. It is not like West says yea we do not need it
that we are going to say fine West doesn’t get it and everyone else gets
there, what we are trying to do, we are trying to build a consensus. We
would like to do the same and I am not necessarily saying the same dollar
amount but we would like to apply the same philosophy. If we negotiate
with one company yea we do not want a truck fund any more, that is not
what we are trying to do we are trying to
Mr. Nussbaum-Maybe we should have one meeting with everybody in the
same room.
Supervisor Stec-We may end up doing that sometime late next week just to
talk about that one issue. I think that is the only significant issue that, again
even if we did not hammer that out we have got the money to accommodate
any contact that we would sign you know, what I am saying is don’t be
alarmed that we cannot point to an exact dollar figure tonight. Anything that
we would agree to we will be able to fund. So, we are not going to play the
game hey we would love to give you that budget but you know we shorted
you when we collected the taxes and now our hands are tied we are not
going to play that game. You need to know that because I can understand
that you are saying hey maybe we have been farther along in the past and
maybe we haven’t but so that is hopefully that answers some of your
questions. I do not know if there are any that we left out Jennifer that while
you were talking we were kind of looking for a spreadsheets but I think we
covered it. Unless you have other questions, Scott?
Mr. Nussbaum-No, I did not want to take up so much of your time with all
this but I mean.
Supervisor Stec-It is important it is the only big thing that is hanging out
there and we are aware of that it was reported in the paper, we are aware of
that. The Fire Contracts and one; are a significant chunk of the budget, two;
a very significant operation in the Town and three; not one hundred percent
resolved. What we are proposing in the budget would cover adequately any
contract that we are going to sign.
Mr. Nussbaum-At this point we have all had a tentative if not signed
something at this point some sort of an agreement.
Supervisor Stec-Well I can remember a year that we did not sign a budget
until January with the Fire Departments and I do not think we are going to
be there either. I think we will have, and again I think that really the dollars
and cents, I think you guys are going to like the language in the contract I
think really what we are going to end up squabbling over if you call it
squabbling is the dollar amounts and probably the thing that we will
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 611
squabble the hardest over is this thing that I would like to resolve by the end
of next week is the vehicle fund. I think the rest as far as operations that is a
sit down and lets go over it kind of thing like we did before and I do not
think, I think we will be able to get there. I am not concerned about it other
than the fact that I know that I would like to be further ahead in the process.
But, just from the conversations that I have had with the Chiefs and
Presidents you know and the guys that I know that are on the Board of
Directors and the Treasurers we have been talking with the Treasurers the
last couple of weeks we will get there, we will definitely get there.
Mr. Nussbaum-Ok. Thanks.
Supervisor Stec-Thanks and like you said I recognize that this is a big chunk
that is still out there for everybody. Anyone else that would like to address
the Town Board on, the public hearing is still open and if there are any other
questions it does not have to be on Fire it could be on any part of the Towns
Budget. Yes, Sir.
Mr. Glen Gregory-Glen Gregory 10 East Avenue, Queensbury I do not
understand how you can adopt a budget tonight when you have not even
negotiated with the Fire Companies to know what they want?
Supervisor Stec-I thought we just answered that question, Sir.
Councilman Boor-Last name? What was your last name?
Councilman Brewer-Gregory
Mr. Gregory-Gregory
Supervisor Stec-Mr. Gregory, I think that we just covered that is that we
have been talking, my point of contact at this point has been the leadership
in the Company.
Mr. Gregory-I will tell you right now the Fire Company itself is blind as
what is going on.
Supervisor Stec-I cannot help you there other than I am aware of it now but I
have been talking, you followed what we said though that we know what the
contracts were the last few years, we have seen the direction
Mr. Gregory-Not all I cannot hear that well.
Supervisor Stec-Pardon?
Mr. Gregory-Not all of it, I cannot hear that well.
Supervisor Stec-Oh, I am sorry. We have, we have made sure that we have
put enough tax money aside that when we adopt the budget with the Fire
Company that enough money will be in the, that we will have enough money
to cover any contract that we sign.
Councilman Strough-And we are going to be sitting down with them …
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 612
Supervisor Stec-Always, we will be having those contract negotiations
Mr. Gregory-Who are you going to contact for that set down date?
Supervisor Stec-That will be I will be contacting the President and saying
bring whoever you are bring with you to the table.
Mr. Gregory-Why don’t you contact me so I know I will be here.
Supervisor Stec-Are you an officer of the department?
Mr. Gregory-I am a Director.
Supervisor Stec-You are a Director, look if I contacted every Director of all
five Companies I would be on the phone all day.
Mr. Gregory-We are not going to find out otherwise.
Councilman Brewer-Glen, I will call you.
Supervisor Stec-That is something you have got to work out ..all right.
Councilman Brewer-I will call you and let you know when we are meeting
with West.
Supervisor Stec-You know what I am saying, my point of contact has been
Mr. Wells and Mr. Carpenter and Mr. Wells is the President I believe unless
it has changed so that is who I know to call.
Mr. Gregory-It is not your fault I know that.
Supervisor Stec-All right, I was concerned that you thought maybe and I do
not want to throw John under the bus either but he is the guy that I go to and
we are aware that when we sit down it will be more than one or two people
in the room and it will be more than just one or two Town Board Members
in the room. It will be the full Town Board and I am sure a good
representation of the Directors. We know that anything that gets agreed to
goes to the Board of Directors and the membership and we understand that.
This will be my third fire budget that I have party to. We will do that.
Mr. Gregory-I was going to a fire budget while you were probably going to
school.
Supervisor Stec-Probably before I was born. Thanks Glen.
Mr. Gregory-Another thing I have been hearing rumors that the West is not
going to get a raise we are going to lose our truck fund period. Other
companies are getting a fabulous raise.
Supervisor Stec-No that is not true. As a matter of fact we sent a piece of
mail out to every
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 613
Councilman Boor-Great rumor though.
Supervisor Stec-It is a great rumor. We sent the same, every company got
the same spread sheet, every Chief and President got a copy of what we are
proposing for all five so every body saw what everyone proposes, was going
to get. I can tell you that none of them were getting increases. We had
proposed that three companies get less money in operations and two get the
same money and we are aware that, that might not hold true we are aware of
that we have to negotiate that but I can tell you this that the Town did not
propose more money for any of the five fire departments. So, that rumor is
just not true.
Mr. Gregory-Then we are going to negotiate eventually.
Supervisor Stec-Yes, Sir, absolutely we always do. We absolutely will, you
are welcome. Anyone else like to speak on the budget any part of the
budget. I know we kind of focusing on fire and that is fine but is there
anyone else? Mr. VanDusen our Water Superintendent. Sorry I ratted you
out on your tank. I felt the need to do that.
Mr. Ralph VanDusen-Queensbury Water/Wastewater Superintendent.
I appreciate that actually it was Bruce’s budget so you can …
Supervisor Stec-I will be dealing with him, longer than I will be dealing with
you.
Mr. VanDusen-Water Superintendent I just, this is the thirtieth budget that I
have played a role in and there were three differences this year then any of
the previous twenty nine years and I feel I really do not want to drag the
meeting out but I also feel it is important that I let both the Board Members
as well as the audience know what I saw as differences and I have to say
what I saw as improvements. To the best of my recollection every single
one of the previous twenty-nine budgets had more lines than the year before.
I can tell you that tends to increase the costs it makes it much more of a
night mere when it comes to creating the budget to operating within the
budget to maintaining the budget. I am thrilled to hear that we are going to
be reducing the number of lines I think that will be a very positive impact for
the taxpayers in the Town as well as every Department Head here. I will
also say that I am very happy to hear that Jennifer is interested in actually
has sought input from Department Heads as to which lines they think should
be consolidated and what did we think would work best for not only our
needs but for the Town. I think Jennifer deserves a lot of credit for that.
The second item would be the Town Board as a whole, unfortunately as a
Department Head usually by the time that we meet with you it is eleven
o’clock at night you have had a long night, you are tired you want to get
home we are tired and we want to get home but that seems to be the time
that we take the opportunity to talk about areas that, long term plans what do
we see happening, what are the trends and that sort of thing. Dan mentioned
it earlier but the reality was that during this budget process I saw more
interest and input from the Board and the opportunity for me to talk and I
felt sorry for the Department going after me to be very honest. But, it gave
us the opportunity to have input as to what did we think the needs were a
five year plan or a capital plan that might occur next year or the year after
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 614
and where did we see things going within the Town and getting that input
and I think that is an extremely important part of the budget process and the
operation of this Town as a whole. I want to thank the Board for that
opportunity and I truly enjoy that dialog that occurred. Again, I apologize to
the Department that went behind me because I know we ran over time. I
think it was really important and I think it is a great step. The third thing I
cannot remember, oh yea, Dan. I want to talk about the Supervisors role in
this and there have been years that as a Department Head I have met with the
Supervisor to discuss the preliminary budget there have been years that I
have not met with the Supervisor they have just done it behind a closed door
and used whatever method they felt appropriate. It certainly was irritating
when that occurred and unfortunately I think a few times that showed later
on when it finally went to the Board. To the best of my recollection this
year was the first year that the Supervisor asked me out of this budget if we
need to cut where do you think it should come from. The first time I had
opportunity to have input into that. In the past if there were cuts made it
might have been in electricity or things that just from my viewpoint quite
honestly did not make a lot of sense. I can assure you we do not run pumps
and open hydrants and let them run just to build up our electric costs. But, I
want to thank you for that and it is, I will not say that the budget process was
a pleasant one, because quite honestly it not my least favorite thing to do and
but it does force you to look at a multiple year plan as well as the annual
thing. When the Board takes the interest and asks those questions I think in
the future it is going to generate more thought by Department Heads as to
where we are headed in that regard not only what is going to happen in
fiscally 2005 but what is going to happen in the next five years. So, again
Thank you.
Supervisor Stec-Thank you Ralph, Jennifer we will have to review his
personnel compensation package, no, although certainly unsolicited I am
very humbled and the Board is honored by that kind of feed back from a
Department Head with your ten year Ralph and I can tell you I am sure I can
speak for the Town Board that we enjoyed going over time with your budget
discussion talking to you about the water plant which is a gem in the area. It
really is. I am glad that you thought that the budget process was a good one
and I thank you for the complement. Anyone else like to talk to the Town
Board comment on the public hearing for the budget for next year, any
aspect at all? Going once, any Board Members while the public hearing is
still open any Board Members like to comment? (No one spoke) I really
want to emphasize again you know that the Town Board we have had our
rocky moments and our heated debates on a lot of issues and I think it is
because the whole Town Board really takes its job very seriously and very
passionately. We may differ on our opinions as to what is best some of the
times but I just want to publicly recognize and thank the Department Heads
again and specially now the Town Board for their participation in this
process. It was different it was a different approach it is not finished yet we
know that, the budget might be getting close to having tax numbers that we
are going to be collecting available but we know that we have details in
certainly the emergency services to continue to work out. We will be
working on that. We have not forgotten. But we did try to plan for that to
make sure that we are covered for whatever we decide. But, I do want to
you again, thanks to the Department Heads for your patience and your
participation in this process the faith that you put in, in changing the process.
Special Town Board Meeting, 11-04-2004, Mtg #52 615
I know that several of you have done many, many budgets and probably got
more some of you have more budgets under you belt than you do on the
horizons. So, for me to come in and kind of shake the cage on how we do
budgets I appreciate personally and I think the results hopefully speak for
themselves, the proof will be in next years public hearing on the budget as to
whether or not all the roads did get paved and the plows did get out and the
water did flow and the wastewater was taken away. But, I thought it was a
good process. Any other comments from the public at all? Any other
comments from the Town Board? Again the public hearing or the budget
will be adopted in substantially the same form that it was presented tonight,
like I said the only thing that could change and we are prepared for it and it
would be a relatively simple change would be if we decide to go a
significantly different direction that we are talking about with respect to the
vehicle funds. But, hopefully we will have that answer by the end of next
week, So, I, besides that I do not anticipate any other changes to the budget
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and we will be adopting that on November 15. With that said is there
anything else from the Town Board? I will close the Public Hearing 8:24
P.M. on the Budget for 2005
RESOLUTION ADJOURING SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
RESOLUTION NO. 549.2004
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS
ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby
adjourns is Special Town Board Meeting.
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Duly adopted this 4 day of November, 2004 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec
Noes: None
ABSENT: None
Respectfully submitted,
Miss Darleen M. Dougher
Town Clerk-Town of Queensbury