1986-09-24 SP
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QUEENS BURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
Special Meeting held: Wednesday, September 24, 1986 @ 7:30 P.M.
Present:
Ted Turner,Chairman
Gustave Behr
Charles O. Sicard
Jeffrey L. Kelley
Stuart F. Mesinger, Senior Planner
Susan Goetz, Secretary
Daniel S. Griffin
Susan E. Davidsen,
Stenographer
Case Prime, Counsel
Absent:
Michael Muller
Chairman Turner called the meeting to order at 7:30 P.M.
. Ø'LD BUSINESS
SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1135
Mr. Turner declared himself inelligible to act on this variance
due to a conflict of interest andtilrned the chair over to Mr. Behr.
Mrs. Goetz read the application from The Great Escape Amusement
Park to keep a large, non-conforming wall sign in excess of the area
permitted, at property situated on Rt. 9 in the RC-15 zone.
Mr. Behr noted that this application was tabled the previous
month so that a complete sign inventory could be made. This in-
ventory indicated that there were 2 non-confQrming signs: the
1,480 square foot wall sign and a non-conformi~g free standing sign.
Attorney Robert Stewart represented the applicant. Mr. Stewart
said that under the ordinance, a 300 square foot wall sign would be
allowed. However, a smaller sign would cause large expanses of blank
wall space to be exposed. Further, a 300 foot sign would not be
visible from the Northway, which is the major attraction of the
present sign. Mr. Stewart further said that the applicant was wil-
ling to bring his free-standing sign into conformance if allowed to
keep the large wall sign.
The Board reviewed pictures of the signs and discussed how many
signs an amusement park was allowed.
Mr. Behr said that the wall sign was granted a temporary variance
in 1979. One cøndition of that variance was that several large poles
which had supported a previous billboard be removed. This was never
done.
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Mr. Stewart said that the applicant would agree to do this
immediately.
Mrs. Goetz said that the amusement park is a unique business
with special circumstances and should be allowed to keep the wall
sign as long as the free standing sign is made to conform.
Mr. Tom McDonough spoke in favor of the application, saying
that the sign is visible from the Northway, and attracts business.
Public Hearing Opened: Marilyn Stark, David Kenney, Bill Bodenweiser
and Rosemary Walker, all local motel owners, spoke in favor of the
application. Each noted that the park attracts much of their busi-
ness and cited the wall sign's visibility from the Northway as an
important factor. John Heck, Saratoga Springs, also spoke in favor
of the application.
Public Hearing Closed.
Mrs. Goetz read the resolution by the Warren County Planning Board
to approve the variance for the wall sign, with the condition that
all other signs conform and the old billboard poles be removed.
Motion by Mrs. Goetz
Second by Mr. Griffin, it was
RESOLVED THAT Variance No. 1135 to keep an existing 1,480 square
foot wall sign be approved as practical difficulty has been shown
due to the expanse of the property and the unique nature of the
business. The approval is gr.anted with the following conditions:
1. The existing free standing sign will come into compliance
and,
2. Poles of the old billboard will be removed.
PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.
Mr. Turner returned to the Chair.
NEW BUSINESS
SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1139
Mrs. Goetz read the application from the Mobil Oil Corporation
to continue to keep several signs at non-conforming setback distances
and to continue to keep more signs than are presently allowed by
ordinance at property located at the corner of Glen and Aviation Roads
in the pC-1A zone.
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.Mrs. Goetz read a letter trom the applicant dated September 4,
1~86 wh.ich inventoried the existing signs and asked that signage
as fòllows be allowed:
1. Two twin pole. signs @. 45. 6 square foot åach.
2. One horizontal snap lock disc' @ 16.0 square foot.
3. One ~egasus:wall sign @ 19.6 square foot.
4. One Mobil Mart legend @ 7.3 square foot.
5. Two Mobi.l canopy legends @ 11.6 square foot each.
6. One yard light pos
The Board read a letter trom-Bob Eddy dated September 3, 1986
w..hi.chalso inventori~ed si.gns". Mr. Behr 1t1entioned that there were
alsû 6 i"egasus logos" over the gas canopies which should be included
in the inventory.
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Attorney John Carusone represented the applicant. Mr. Carusone
said that the intent of the sign law is to promote the areaJs
economi.c climate, protect local values and make a better community.
He noted that the requirements for issuing a variance were similar.
Hes:aid that the gas station is attractive and well landscaped and
that the intent of, the ordinance would be upl:1e:J.d. by granting the
variance. Turther, the property has practical difficulties which
cause the 2 existing free-standing signs to require setback variances
_. the difficulty' being the odd shape of the property and state
taking ot land for road construction. Mr. Carusone said that there
are essentially 2 businesses on the property, a gas station and a
mini-mart. The applicant proposes to remove some non-conforming
signs and teels that the application to keep the other signs is the
11lini1t1UIn relief necessary.
Mr. Behr noted that the applicant had constructed non-conforming
s:igns despite the ordinance, which had never been revised.
Mr. Carusone said that Mobil's signs were included in the blue-
prints submitted to the Planning Board and that the company had
thought that site plan approval included the signs. Mr. Carusone
reiterated that the purpose of the ordinance was to enhance attrac-
ti'veness and the station was in fact attractive.
Mr. Griffin said that the 2 free-standing signs did not meet
setbacks'ð.nd asked what would be the effect of moving them,to meet
setbacks' .
Mr. Carusone said that conforming to setbacks would interfere
with ingress and egress.
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The Board then again discussed the number of signs on the
property. It was agreed that Mobil is allowed 3 signs - 2 .wall
and 1 free-standing. The Board's consensus was that there were
considerably more signs than allowed by ordinance. It was also
agreed that the yard light POS was not a sign within the meaning
of the ordinance.
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Public Hearing Opened: no conunent
puclic Hearing Closed.
Susan Goetz read the resolution 6f the Warren County Planning
Board disapproving the proposal, stating that there are too many
signs and that the applicant should comply with the ordinance.
Mr. Kelly said that there is a uniqueness to the corner
property which should allow the applicant to keep 2 free-standing
signs at theí~ present setback, as well as 1 wall sign: Various
Board members agreed with this.
Motion by Mr. Kelly
Second by Mr. Griffin, it was
RESOLVED THAT Variance #1139 be partially approved as follows,
due to practical difficulty because of the location of the property
at the corner of two major highways and because it does not adversely
'---' affect neighborhood character. . Stipulations are as follows:
1. Approve ~ free-standing signs at present locations
(Route 9; approximately 6 feet from the southern
property line and Aviation Road, approximately 2 feet
from the western property line). These free-standing
signs will conform in size.
2. Approve 1 "Mobil Mart" legend wall sign to remain.
All other signs must be removed.
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY.
SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1144
Mrs. Goetz read the application from the Tropicana Restaurant
to keep a sign which is non-conforming as to size at its present
location on Rt. 9 in the HC-lS zone.
Mr. Daniel Lombard, owner of the Tropicana Restaurnat, discus-'
sed with the Board at length, the size of the sign and whether or
not removing the reader panel from the sign and using it as a wall
sign would be feasible. Mr. Lombard did not know how far the sign
was set back from the property line.
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Public Hearing O¡¡>ened: David Kenney, Marilyn Stark and Donald
White all spoke 1n favor of the application, saying that the
restau~ant served as an attraction for their business.
Mr. Eric Troelstra, owner of "The Silo" spoke in opposition
saying that he had to conform as to size and therefore, so should
others.
Public Hearing Closed.
Warren County Planning Board approved without comment.
The Board then determined that it CQuld not act on the ap-
plication until setbacks were ascertained.
Motion by Mr. Turner
Second by Mr. Griffin, to table the application until the
applicant provides information on the sign's setback from the
property line.
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY.
SIGN EARIANCE NO. 1150
Mrs. Goetz read the application from Adirondack Auto Supply
~ to keep, in its present location, a 32 square foot free-standing
sign located in the right-of-way on Quaker Road.
Mr. Michael Saleen, owner of the store, stated that the sign
was present when he bought the store 8 years ago} he had simply
changed the copy.
After some questioning, the Board was unable to determine
whether a permit to have the sign in the J;' ¡,Q'.'W.,. hað.þeøn ·j;~sued
by the County.
Mrs. Goetz noted that the Board had granted similar variances
in the past.
Motion by Mr. Griffin
Second by Mr. Sicard, it was
RESOLVED THAT Variance No. 1150 be approved. Practical difficulty
has been demonstrated, however, with the stipulation that this
variance is good until Quaker Road is widened. Furthermore, a.
permit must be obtained from the Warren County Highway Department
to keep the sign in the right-of-way.
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY.
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SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1151
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Mrs. Goetz read the application from C.G. Woodbury & Son, Inc.
to maintain existing signs at the Woodbury's store on Upper Glen
Street in the PC-lA zone.
Mr. Ted Bigelow represented the applicant. He outlined the
existing signs and said that the applicant wished to modify the
request to agree to remove a ridge top sign and a free-standing
sign across the street from the s~Qre. The applicant wished to
keep 5 wall signs which conform as to area. The applicant is
sllowed 2 wall signs and 1 free-standing sign. Mr. Bigelow said
that the total square footage of the waæls is small compared to
the square footage of the signs, there is little room to place a
free-standing sign, and the existing signs look good.
Public Hearing Open: No comment
Public Hearing Closed.
Warren County Planning Board disapproved without comment.
Mr. Mesinger said that the problem was the number of signs.
The Board discussed at length with Mr. Bigelow various ways
to combine signs to conform to the ordinance. The consensus was
that 5 signs were too many, but that 3 wall signs could be allowed
to substitute for the 2 wall signs and 1 free-standing sign allowed.
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Motion by Mr, Behr
Second by Mrs. Geotz, it was
RESOLVED THAT Variance NO. 1151 be approved as follows: existing
wall signs on the north and south end sides of the building which
now total 65 square feet each may stay. In lieu of the allowed
free-standing sign, a third wall sign over the front door will
not exceed 64 square feet and in addition, the applicant will be
allowed their own design. All other signs will be removed, i.e.
logo signs, -rbòf','ridge'arid "treated timber" signs. The applicant
is allowed a 3rd wall sign because of the practical difficulty in
erecting a free-standing sign at this location. *
SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1153
Mrs. Goetz read the application of the Jãde Palace Restaurant
to keep an existing free-standing sign which--does not conform as to
size in its present'location on Rt. 9 in the HC-15 zone.
Mr. Vince Canale represented the applicant. He said that there
was a practical difficulty in that the sign could not be seen if it
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* Corrected October 15, 1986. The 3rd wall sign is allowed 64 square feet in lieu of a
64 square foot free standing sign at a 25 foot setback.
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~as in another location.
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Upon questioning, Mr. Canale said that he didn't know how
far the sign was set back from the road.
Motion by Mrs. Goetz
Second by Mr. Griffin, it was
RESOLVED THAT the application be tabled to get more information
regarding the setback from the property line.
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY.
SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1154
Mrs. Goetz read the application from Century 21 Realty to
keep a sign in the county right-of-way on Quaker Road in the
HC-15 district.
Mr. Bill Duvall represented the applicant. He said that the
sign would conform as to size if the changeable copy portion was
removed; the problem was that it was in the right-of-way. The
applicant agreed to move the sign when Quakin:~-Road is widened.
Public Hearing Opened: No comment
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Public Hearing Closed.
Motion by Mr. Sicard
Second by Mr. Behr, it was
RESOLVED THAT Sign Variance No. 1154 is granted until Quaker Road
is widened. The variance is subject to the applicant obtaining a
valid permit from the Warren County Highway Department. The sign
must conform to size requirements by removing the changeable copy
portion of the sign.
SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1128
Mrs. Goetz read the application from the Samoset Motel and
C.blns to keep 3 free-standing signs on property located on
Rt. 9, in the HC-15 zone.
James and Rosemary Walker, Jr., owners, said that there were
3 free-standing signs, 2 on Rt. 9 and 1 on the Northway. All
conformed as to size and setback. from curbs; the problem was
that there were only 2 free-standing signs allowed. They also
said that if the signs were moved, they could not be seen.
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The Board discussed sign location at length. The consensus
of the Board was that it could not act unless setbacks from the
property line were known. The curb is not necessarily the property
line.
Motion by Mr. Turner
Second by Mrs. Goetz, it was
RESOLVED THAT Application No. 1128 be tabled so that the applicant
can supply more information regarding setbacks from the property
line.
PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.
Mrs. Goetz read the application of the French Mountain Motel
to maintain a sign which does not conform as to size and setback
at its present location on Rt. 9 in the HC-lS zone.
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Mr. L. Thomas Warner, owner, said that his sign splits the
state right-of-way and that his sign is 1 foot from the property
line. The state has allowed him to keep the sign in in the R.O.W.,
but has never billed him. Mr. Warner said that there would be a
visibility problem if the sign were moved back. Finally, he said
that he planned to make the sign conform as to size.
Mr. Behr was concerned that there was no proof that the state
had accepted the sign in the R.O.W. Mr Prime said that the Board could
condition its approval on the state's approval.
Public Hearing Open: David Kenney and Marilyn Stark spoke in favor
of the application, citing the practical difficulty of moving the
sign and the visibility problem.
Public Hearing Closed.
Mrs. Goetz read the opinion of the Warren County Planning Board,
which voted 4-3 in favor of the project, which, under state law is
a "no-action" vote.
Motion of Mr. Griffin
Second by Mr. Sicard, it was
RESOLVED THAT Sign Variance No. 1130 be approved as to setback
location. Practical difficulty is demonstrated as the size of the
property is small. The sign must conform to the ordinance as to
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size. The variance is granted contingent upon New York S~ate
approval of locating the sign on their right-of-way.
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1131
Mrs. Goetz read the application from the Hi-Way Host Motel
to keep an existing sign which is non-conforming as to size and
location in its present location on Rt. 9 in the HC-15 zone.
Mr. David Kenney, owner, said that there was essentially no
place else to move the sign. He had removed 4 other signs and
turned off the flashing lights on the sign. There was a visibil-
ity problem with moving the sign. He asked if his sign could be
considered as 2 signs and allowed 100 square feet, as he is al-
lowed 2 at 50 feet and only has J,.,
The Board discussed, at length, ways to make the sign conform
as to size, including removing the arrow and putting the reader
panel on a separate sign. The Board agreed that it would not be
practical to move the sign, but felt that it should conform as to
size.
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Mr. Kenney said that the ordinance discriminated against
motels in that they were not allowed a 64 square foot sign if
placed 25 feet from the road, as were other businesses.
Public Hearing O~ened: Marilyn Stark spoke in favor of the
application, cit1ng the visibility problem.
Public Hearing Closed.
Mrs. Goetz read the opinion of the Warren County Planning
Board, which voted 4-3 in favor of the project, which under state
law, is a "no-action" vote.
Motion by Mr. Behr
Second by Mrs. Goetz, it was
RESOLVED THAT Variance No. 1131 be approved as to setback. Practical
difficulty is demonstrated due to widening of the þighway encroaching
on setbacks. The variance is granted witfi theprOV1S10nthat the free-
standing sign must meet size requirements. The sign is limited to
the "Motel" sign and attached rectangle reading "Highway Host".
These two sign portions are slightly oversized and will be allowed
a 10% variation. The second free-standing sign will be within size
requirements. In addition, it is noted that Mr. Kenney has a valid
lease agreement with New York State to locate a sigh in the right-
of-way.
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PASSED UNANIMOUSLY.
A motion was made by Mr. Behr to adjourn the meeting.
Second by Mr. Kelley, all votinç affirmatively
RESOLVED THAT the meeting adjourn.
MEETING ADJOURNED @ 11:35 P.M.
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