1986-11-24 SP
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QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
Special Meeting held: Monday, November 24, 1986 @ 7:30 P.M.
Present: Theodore Turner, Chairman
Gustave Behr
Charles O. Sicard
Jeffrey L. Kelley
Daniel S. Griffin
Stuart F. Mesinger, Senior Town Planner
R. Case Prime, Attorney
Robert Eddy, Sign Enforcement Officer
Absent:
Susan Goetz
Michael Muller
Chairman Turner called the meeting to order at 7:40 p.m. Mr. Turner said that
Sign Variance No. 1175, Aviation Road Development, Red Coach Restaurant had been
tabled.
OLD BUSINESS
SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1128
Samoset Motel and Cabins
Mr. Turner said that this application was previously tabled for more information
on setbacks. The public hearing wa~ closed.
Jim and Rosemary Walker said there are 3 signs (2 are allowed): Sign 1 faces Route
9 at the north end of their property and is 18 inches onto state land. Sign 2 is on the south
end of the property facing Route 9 and is 17 ft. 2 in. from the line. Sign 3 is on the
Northway 5 feet from the property line-. All signs conform as to size.
Mr. Turner and Mr. Behr noted that the Northway sign isn't very visible. The Walkers
disagreed, saying that many customers choose their motel because of this sign.
Board members e;xplained that they have been making all businesses on Route 9
conform to the number and size requirements, while granting setback variances on Route
9 because of the state taking land. The Walkers were asked which sign they would prefer
to lose. Mr. Walker said he would prefer to keep the Northway sign and give up the sign
on the south property line.
Mr. Behr MOVED APPROVAL of Variance No. 1128. Practical difficulty for the
main sign on the north of the property is due to the widening of Route 9 creating the
problem. Only 2 signs aré permitted; the sign on the south of the property is to be removed.
The sign on the Northway is approved but must meet the 15 foot setback requirement
and conform as to size and height.
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Seconded by Mr. Turner.
Passed U"1II"imously.
NEW BUSINESS
SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1173
Small World Shoppes
Mr. Griffin read the application from Small World Shoppes on Route 9 to keep an
existing free standing sign 13 ft. from the property line. Two wall signs also exist.
Don White, owner, said that one of the wall signs will be changed to a 4 square foot
directional sign so as to conform. The only remaining issue is the free standing sign.
Mr. White said that the sign has been considerably reduced. There is a main sign
which is 48 square feet and two reader panels totaling 12 square feet. Mr. White submitted
sketches showing the 12 foot setback and photos of the sign. He said that he operated
a restaurant, cheese and gourmet store and gift shop; it was difficult to advertise all of
these on one sign. The sign could conform to size requirements if moved to a 25 foot
setback, but then it would be 3 feet into his driveway.
Mr. Behr said that the reader panels could be made part of the wall sign.
Mr. White said that they were more effective perpendicular to the road. He cited
sales figures showing an increase in business with the reader panels.
Public Hearing Opened: no comment
Public Hearing Closed
The Wa.n'en County Planning Board approved the 3 foot setback variance but denied
the size variance.
The Board discussed how signs are measured. It was agreed that by moving the reader
panels together, the sign would measure 62 square feet. Mr. White said he would prefer
to keep the sign at its present size and move it back to 22 feet from the line (signs are
allowed 64 square feet at a 25 foot setback) rather than conform to a 50 foot size at the
existing setback. Board members agreed to this; moving the sign further back than 22
feet would place it in the driveway.
Mr. Griffin MOVED APPROVAL of Variance No. 1173 for a 3 foot setback; the sign
is to be 22 feet from the Right of Way. The sign will remain at 62 square feet. Practical
difficulty is that a driveway prevents the sign from being moved further back. The gift
sign will be changed to a "Gift Entrance" sign which is a directional sign and be a maximum
of 4 square feet.
Mr. Kelley seconded.
"--' Passed Unan;mously.
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SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1176
Meads Nursery
Mr. Griffin read the application from Meads Nursery to keep a sign which confòrms
as to size at a 10 foot setback at the property situated on Ridge Road.
Dick Mead said he had a second sign which conforms. Moving the sign would cause
him to lose a cedar tree. the property would look worse without the tree.
Mr. Behr said there was plenty of space to move the sign back and that if moved
it would still be visible. Loss of the tree was not a practical difficulty.
Board members discussed whether the setback had been measured from the pole
or the leading edge of the sign. Mr. Mead was unsure where the measurement had been
taken from. The existing setback would be 5 feet if measured from the leading edge;
10 feet if from the pole.
Public Hearing Opened: no comment
Public Hearing Closed
The Warren County Planning Board approved without comment.
Mr. Behr MOVED DENIAL of Variance No. 1176. No practical difficulty has been
shown.
. Mr. Kelley seconded.
Passed Un=-nhnously
SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1177
ABC Rentals
Mr. Griffin read the application from ABC Rentals to keep a freestanding sign which
conforms as to size 4 feet from the property line at the corner of Ridge and Quaker Roads.
Keith Coe explained that he also has 2 wall signs, which are allowed as he is on a
corner lot. The freestanding sign is 32 square feet in size and 4 feet from the property
line on Ridge Road. The sign is also exactly on the property line on the Quaker Road
side.
Board members explained that they had granted other setback variances on Quaker
Road with the provision that the signs be removed 'when the road is widened. However,
there is no practical difficulty for the Ridge Road side.
The Board discussed with Mr. Coe alternate sign locations. Several were rejected
for lack of visibility. The Board and Mr. Coe agreed on several alternate locations, however
no information was available to determine what the setbacks would be from the new
"-..i locations. Mr. Coe asked the Board to table the application so he could make further
measurements.
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Mr. Sicard MOVED that the application be tabled for further measurements.
Mr. Turner seconded.
Passed UDaDimously
SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1178
Mohican Motel
Mr. Griffin read the application from the Mohican Motel to keep' 4 signs on property
located on Route 9. The 4 signs are as follows:
Sign 1 87 square feet, 7 feet from Route 9 line. "Indian logo"
Sign 2 freestanding sign 15 feet from Route 9 line, 48 square feet "Mohican Motel"
Sign 3 freestanding sign on Northway, 15 feet from line, approximately 160 square
feet, "Mohican Motel"
Sign 4 wall sign on indoor pool "Indoor pool and jacuzzi"
George Stark said that in addition there were 6 other signs which he would remove.
Mr. Stark asked the Board whether the sign on the Northway could be considered a billboard
and therefore grandfathered. After some discussion the Board agreed to table this sign
pending research by Counsel and submittal of evidence from Mr. Stark. if the sign is a
billboard it may stay; otherwise it must be removed.
Mr. Stark said that he would agree to make both of his freestanding signs (numbers
1 and 2) conform to size and would also remove his wall sign (number 4). He could not
move the freestanding signs further back due to the location of the drywell and septic
system.
Public Hearing Opened: no comment
Public Hearing Closed
Mr. Griffin read a letter from George Pense I supporting the application so long as
visibility was not interfered with.
The Warren County Planning Board disapproved without comment.
Mr. Behr MOVED that Variance No. 1178 be approved for setbacks for freestanding
signs 1 and 2. The practical difficulty is the close proximity to the Route 9 Right of Way
which was caused by the widening of Route 9. Size and height requirements for these
signs must be met. Sign No.4 will be removed as will all other nonconforming signs.
The Northway sign number 3 is tabled for determination of whether it is a billboard.
Mr. Sicard seconded
~ Passed UDaDimoualy.
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'--' SIGN VARIANCE NO. 1183
Mohan's Glen Dew
Mr. Griffin read the application from Mohan's Glen Dew to keep a freestanding sign
which conforms as to size at a 4 foot setback on the property situated at Glen Road.
Raymond Rohne, owner, said that the sign would look tetTible if moved and that
it would extend into the building if placed at a 15 foot setback.
Mr. Behr said that the Board could get the sign further from the road by granting
a smaller variance that that requested.
Mr. Behr also questioned whether the two wall signs on the property were conforming
as each sign advertised two businesses. This would seem to give Mohan's 3 signs, one more
than allowed.
Mr. Eddy said that there were two businesses in the building, each with a separate
license and each entitled to a wall sign. The signs had permits and were, in his opinion,
legal.
Mr. Prime said that there was some presumption that the signs were legal as they
had a valid permit; the issue before the Board was the freestanding sign.
Public HearinR Opened:
Carolyn Rohne, part owner, said she was in favor of the application.
Public HearinR Closed.
The WatTen County Planning Board disapproved without comment.
The Board and Mr. Rohne discussed other possible sign locations which would meet
the setback requirement while still being visible. Mr. Rohne asked that the application
be tabled so that he could make further measurements on his property.
Mr. Sicard MOVED that the application be tabled at the applicants request.
Mr. Turner seconded.
Passed Un='llnhnously.
THE MEE'l1NG WAS ADJOURNED AT 10:15 P.M.
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Theodore ~, Chairman
Minutes prepared by Stuart F. Mesinger, Senior Town Planner
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