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1988-12-1 SP E: LC 9 L i 4 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING f DECEMBER 1, 1988 6:00 P.M. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY SUPERVISOR BORGOS � f MEMBERS PRESENT: ' Supervisor Stephen Prrgns Councilman George Kuresoka Councilman Marilyn Polenza f Councilman Betty Alonahan i j Town Attorney-Paul Qusek i MEMBERS ABSENT Councilman Ronald Montesi Supervisor Borgos-This is meeting number 63 in addition to the others just for the record, tF ) meeting is called specifically for the purpose, it is a public hearing, and we will open it noi�.,! specifically for the purpose of hearing people who wish to speak _on. anything related to the supplement to the Draft Environmental Impact Statement recently supplied by the West Mountain people. The Attorney has written some notes here for me and I will be glad to read these for the record. This is a part of the SEQRA process the State Environmental Review Act process related to the West Mountain project. It includes a thirty day comment period this is, this meeting is being conducted during the thirty day period, the comment period expires on December 16th of this year. There will be a further final environmental impact statement j otherwise known as an FEIS that will be prepared and will respond to any comments that were made at the prior public hearing and any comments that are made this evening. The hearing tonight is only one part of stage of the process and no final decision of any sort will be reached this evening. This indicates that there will be additional hearings in both Lake Luzerne and Queensbury before the Planned Unit Development receives any type;of final approval. So, this should set your mind at rest there is not going to be a vote tonight. There is not going to be any final decision made. This is following with the law and even sdme people would take the position that this hearing is not technically required but we are taking a conservative position ' that It should be held and we are holding it. As In the past none of us have come here with any preconceived notions we have unfortunately no time schedules we would all like to go home and see our families but we will stay here as long as you want. - You may come to the microphone and speak for or against. You may speak for one minute or five minutes or eight. minutes, that is up to you. We prefer if you keep it relatively short so that our Clerk W not resign before the night is over, she has to type up all these minutes in the next few da} Please feel free to say anything that is on your mind related to the draft environmental imp statement supplement. As i recall there are two items specifically addressed, that are addressed in that supplement. One is traffic and the other is sewer, so we would ask that you hold your comments to either traffic or sewer as proposed in this supplement to the draft environmental impact statement. This is in accordance with the law and in accordance with the rules and regulations. I just might add a little bit further a number of people have talked to me in the past few days wondering what was happening with the project and why does this go this for and al/ those things. My answer to them has been the some as I will give to you at the moment, the owners of this project and the owners of any property anywhere in the Town actually anywhere in the State we believe are entitled to their full rights. Their full rights include development of some sort. That development is subject to local rules and regulations where of not ultimately get the permission to develop depends on what happens at these hearings. 'What is determined through the process, but they must have the opportunity to present their j case. To deny them their rights to the project would be improper and illegal. We are going through the legal process, I have no preconceived notation of what the final result of this is going to be I do not think anyone on the Board does. We are here to hear everything. Ok, this that in mind anyone who wishes to speak under the ground rules as set forth please step up to the microphone, name, and address say what you would like to say: Tilt that down a little bit it might be a little more comfortable for you. 1 } MARGUERITE DANIELS-1 am Marguerite Daniels from Daniels Road in Lake Luzerne I am basically interested in the traffic part of it, just how much flow of traffic, where is it going to enter onto the property? 1 j SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Ilave you seen the new report? I MARGUERITE DANiLLS-No i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-The new supplement, maybe it would be appropriate if you have a. willing participant for someone from West Mountain to briefly summarize what this new report shows and address this woman's question. Mr. Krzys t E I I ` 77 I SUPER VISOR BORGOS-Please feel free to turn your back on us i you f y want. MR. JOSEPH KRZYS-Thank you. We had a traffic study done which is a requirement things like traffic and sewers so what I am really discussing is what an engineer as a traffic report. What this shows is that there are really four hoses t q trement to study along time to build this assuming that all economic conditions g er gave to us P o the project y Cokes from fifteen to twenty years to build it so that different things t, /t will take anywhere in time in the process so consequently there are different impacts on roads at di 9 peen at different points When you take the study in the first five years it shows that people would be fferent times. exits off the northway in order to get to this development. One exit is o going to primarily through Mltnn, Corinth the Villrygr. of Corinth and over the bridge and comes down Call Street. The other one Is at exit 18 where people get off and basically go to West Mountain and e to the 'top of the mountain by going to a people mover it is called o get the top of the mountain and that is the second way to do that. Where the that gets to know where the dip is the big di ntronces are you Ll property right at those locations there right around where the bi hedproperty and exits to the a traffic, standpoint is than in the 9 P s• What happens from r much traffic happens at what lime, that right around the, first five years it depends on how control the traffic that o series of stop tights have to be put in, in order to ffic in a way so that traffic flows at a proper speed and also where it is safe. So, that is primarily the set of changes that hove to happen in the first ear, stop i there is an intersection at Wilton, there are several places where stop li y t P ghts at you get though the village and there are some places right around West Mountain Road where as here it intersects Corinth Road where in phase one you have to make some changes. As the project gets bigger obviously more traffic shows up and there are other kinds of thins that have to happen between years. 1993 and 1999.at the end of 1999 sufficient traffic comes so that there has to have some what they call turning lanes and that is where West Mountain Road and Corinth Road intersect for example you have to put in an extra lone so traffic can flow strai ht through P and yet be°able to make a right hand turn. So, in order for traffic to flow properly you hove to make these extra turning lanes, that happens in several places and so that is another thing. hav Probably in relation to where you are concerned are because of where you live that there is also at the end of, i guess it is at the end of the third year and the third phase of the ten years, just at the beginning of the third phases rather about ten years out in order for traffic to f low smoothly along Corinth Road as it goes along he back over toward your property that has to be some climbing /ones, where the dip is otherwise you have trucks there and there would be too much traffic ycu would never he able to get in some cases you would have a hard time moving freely. So, a new lane has to be added just at those locations where the hills are so that the trucks can go to the right and the rest of the traffic can flow freely. So, that is another kind of change that has to happen. When you get out to about fifteen years, that additional - turning lanes have to /)upper, in ohherwords now, there is sufficient enough of traffic soo have to add these other )ones at intersections so that people can make more turns. u between, exit l8, at exit 18 and VOnDusen has to to a y The road the study shows as traffic goes up those changes have to happen in eorder to have traffic a low In a safe manor and of a proper speed and that as the traffic increases we have to put these changes in and these changes have to be put in, and that traffic will flow in on adequate Now, I think it) terms of that there are some things that also have to happen and that is way. have particularly at the entrances to the property which is in your street is very close to he entrance. We hove to put turning lanes in as people want to go into the property and the property so traffic con flow smoother. P y out of AIRS.DANIELS In oherwords you are going to widen the road? MR. I•:R Z YS- In spots. MRS. DANIELS-!n spots MR. KRZYS-Yes. MRS. DANIELS-Any take people's property? MR. KR7_ YS-1 think that has to be worked out how that happens. a MRS. DANIELS-Supposing.the people say no, can they be forced to do this? MR. KR Z YS-I do not know the low about that, I do not have an answer for that. MRS. OANIELS°Be honest, sure they con. They can, if the State has anything to do with it they can walk in and say I am taking so much for a road and there are people that have lived on that Mountain for all their lives. MR. KRZ YS-Is that a County Road? i MRS. DANIELS-County Road MR. KRZYS-Ok. MRS. DANIELS-That dip, defiantly is _going to cost thousands and thousand of dollars who is going to pay for that? That is a hazard as it is, it is a hazard happening every time it is wet through there, who will pay for all the road work and stuff? MR. KRZYS-One of the things that this hearing is about to bring those kinds of issues up so we have yet to respond to those. I think one of the questions I think is how'do these things ..get pairs for, them:, are taxes that get generated because we are there that can offset some of those costs. There are sales tuxes, lots of taxes -that come out of the property l think the question is to analysis all that to see how it gets done. I think your concern about the to"", or how it gets paid for is one we ought to listen to so. I MRS. DANIELS-It really is, there are a lot of people on that Mountain that are on fixed inco► already and...a little bit more they are not going to be able to survive, is, as unbelievable as it sounds, these people have lived all their lives to save the property, i know I have and I am still doing it. SUPERVISOR BOR GOS-Excuse me, if you would like to speak Ma'am "please come to the microphone, you may speak, please come to the microphone. We are tape recording all of this and will all be transcribed so we will have a full record. Again this is a public hearing for purposes of expressing opinions we do not expect the developer is going to offer or we are not going to ask for answers to everything but I thought maybe with this general question at the beginning it might be helpful for everyone. Generally speaking the rest of the meeting will be, you ask a question or make a comment that will go on the record, then the developer would reply to that, respond to that in the Final Environmental Impact Statement. If we have a question of general interest where perhaps we need some clarification then we could resolve that here by all means the developer could raise their hand and i may even ask for somebody to participate. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Steve, I think we should mention that people have until the 16th of December as you mentioned to put in written comments to answers of which will be found In the Final Environmental Impact Statement so If you do not want to ask your-"question tonight you want to write it, address it to either our Town Clerk, it should comb to you directly Darleen, SUPER V.ISOR,BORGOS-It is best it they go directly to the Town Clerk. - COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-To the Town of Queensbury Town Clerk. SUPERVISOR BOR,GOS-Thank you, Anyone else wish to speak for-or against-or ask question about, yes, Sir come right up to the microphone please. JIM WINCHESTER-Mv name is Jinn Winchester and l live on Pitcher Road. I have a question, are there, is there more than one entrance, exit to this development planned or, ever forseen? Is the only exit or entrance on Corinth Road or is there another exit, entrance that would be public? SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We will ask Mr. Krzys again, it is a general interest question as I under stand it there are two entrances both off the Corinth Road. MR. KRZYS-There are actually three entrances to the property, `there are actually, there are three entrances and four exits. One of the exits SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Would you explain where those are? MR. KRZYS-Yes. There is one exit or it is an exit it is on emergency road and it is in the Town of Lake Luzerne and it is up off, off Luzerne Mountain Road. It-is, I am trying to place it, if you know where the ridge line is for the Ski area...it is about a mile'and`a half away two miles away from where the ridge line is at the top of the mountain from the Luzerne Mountain Road. Originally that was meant we proposed that to be a major entrance and exit, I think based on previous public hearings that is now an emergency exit just to leave the propr�J and for emergency vehicles to get in, it is riot a major? MR. WINCHESTER-Will it be barricaded? MR. KRZYS-We have to figure out how to do that because there are a couple of liability issues about people beirtg able to get out and ff it is barricaded how do they get out and that kind of thing ...it is not going to -be used by the public. It's only purpose is for emergency purposes. There ore two entrances and exits that we talked about Corinth Road and then it turns into Call Street so and then there is another way to get to the top of the mountain where there �{ Cl is a village and a hotel. That is to park in the ski area and to go on the people mover to get into the village so that, that is only for people who want to use the property during the day that are literally going up to the village. For people that are homeowners and those are the only people that cor7 strive on the property they go in on the back entrances and exits. So it is basically a clos%d community for residents, there is a way for people that want to go and be a day visitor use the facilities to go golfing or go to one of the institutes or go to one of the theatre or whatever and they can park on the back of the property and take a bus from the back of the property right into the village. Basically the day users of the property will go to West Mountain park -at the ski area and take a vehicle 'to the top and to the village. It does a lot of things, it creates a secure environment for the people that are homeowners second of all it gives people rosv nccrss to the top of the mountain without going up the road, Luzerne Aft. Roud which was pr'Up(_)s d helore lobe a major road to the top. With this alternative it is a very safe way to get to the top you do not have o problern with a road that is winds in the winter in particular that is a difficult road at best it is very easy safe way to get people up on top. Up and down to the top of the mountain. The other part is in case of emergencies we could have somebody from the top of the mountain down to the bottom of the mountain in a couple of minutes any other way it would take fifteen or twenty minutes to get them down from the top. It plays a role from that stand point as well, so those are how you get to this. Thank you. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Mr. Tabor, Mr. Monthie I saw you sitting next to Don. DREW MONTHIE-My name is Drew Monthie and I live at Hughes Court in Queensbury and I read through the SEIS and I have quite a few comments and questions so if you would bear with me and in some spots I will have to turn the pages. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Please identify the pages for us. DREW MONTHIE-Mr. Krzys said that the traffic study is based on two principal routes that is people coming south point like Albany and south New York City will exit at exit 16 and come down Spire Falls Road and through the Village of Corinth and over to the development or at exit 18 and up the Corinth Road. Now, last friday after reading this I drove south to exit 16 and took this router Spire Falls through the Village of Corinth and over to West Mountain and then again I drove back down to exit 16 and came up the north bound lane of the Northway because of th`e narrow winding terrain off of Exit 16 and the reduced speeds It took me a full fifteen minutes longer to come the other way. Now, most of the home owners in fact 73% of these they are proposing second homeowners and 1 am sure if I lived in N.Y. City and worked all week that I certainly would want to take the quickest way to this development if I had a second home there. Especially at night, 1 wouldn't want to come over that winding road. If the traffic study is based on this premise, then on this issue alone"l would say that this traffic study is deficient. If you want to turn to figure four in the traffic study, and 11l1 see what page that is on. I want the page with the table and maps. Okay, there Is... COUNCILMAN POTENZA-What page? MR. MONTHIE-Page 8. Okay on this there is no indication of Pinewood or Stephanie Lone which were mentioned in the DEIS as learned access routes. 'in otherwords shortcuts for the second homeowners of this development. I would think those would be critical and no mention is made of them in this document and there was no addressing of the issues raised that these would be learned access routes in a primary residential area. Also you'll notice Sherman Avenue doesn't even appear on the map and if you are going into dowrrtown Glens Falls that is an equally fast way to go coming from West Mountain if you don't want to take Luzerne Road. Also, Potter Road and Aviation Road ore not even mentioned as critical intersections and I would assume most of the people that live in this development are going to go to the Aviation Mali to shop they are going to go to Price Chopper or Super Shop and Save to get their groceries. I highly doubt that tl» majority of tl?er?a are going to drive`'to Corinth or Lake Luzerne to do their shopping. Ayuin, in here we have what we call levels of service and I noticed that this traffic study is based on the highway capacity manual and in one section it says that level of service 13 is considered acceptable in on area such as 'Queensbury. Now, if you go back to the LEIS level 13 indicates delays on the road 75% of the time. Now, as a resident here a would not find that an acceptable delay. Page 15 if you want to turn to that, comes across. a• statement Mr. 1;rzys made that this would bear? emergency only access, now if for insurance -purposes the �.uzerne Mt. Rd. the access onto that is.not barricaded I would ask you how you would keep threligh traffic from going through there. I do not think you are going to be able to stop it. It is kind of like Mcllonalds on Route 9 people cut through there is basically no way to slop it. Who would monitor this would they have a security guard are the residence supposed to monitor this? If you want to turn to page 26 near the bottom almost the last paragraph it says and I quote because of the size of the proposed development over all growth rates arid traffic from phase I where 26 to 161% on roads near the development. Now, this is only phase i we are talking four phases here, what kind of an increase is there going to be by the fourth.; phase I do not think that the developer has sufficiently answered this. My self I think having a small business on Wrst Mountain 161% is an out rageous raise considering what the traffic soa is already like. l will give you a second here to catch up with me. l am going to refer to page 42 now in the traffic study. Ok, page 2 second to the last paragraph about half way through the segment of Corinth Road between 187 and VanDusen will not be able to accommodate the large traffic volumes in its existing condition. This is assuming that half the people take exit 16, not the more realistic scenario that they are going to take exit 18. Ok, Corinth Road between 187 and VanDusen will not be able to accommodate the large traffic volumes in its existing condition, in order to obtain an acceptable level of service this two lane segment should be widened to four lanes. Ok, to widen this to four lanes for the development would be primarily for the benefit of second home owners and the developers themselves, to widen the road would require condemning the peoples property and taking it by eminent domain. A proposal that in the !found Pond issue was soundly defeated by the voters of this town, people do not like do not like eminent domain to quote Mr. Montesi who is not here tonight referring to eminent domain he called them storm trouper tactics to take people's land by eminent domain. Page 46 of the traffic study, about a third of the way down the page the report also emphasis ti the ;magnitude of changes required for phases two and three should be periodically reasses as the resort develops. Now this next part is critical here and 1 want you to listen to planning for this level of improvements should be initiated by the local municipalities actions that can be taken include maintaining and obtaining right of way which 1 would assume to mean eminent domain establishing roadway design criteria and coordinating the improvements required for this project. In rtherwords we the tax payers have to bear the cost of this, the developer I find that to be unfair to the taxpayers who are already paying quite a bit in taxes and if the road does happen to have to be widened and land taken by eminent domain the developer should pay the full cost to any debt incurred in this process. On to the sewage and before l get into the sewage now thut we are seeing all this in the paper about asbestos in school 1 might mention that many years ugo asbestos was deemed safe to use. Now we are being told it is ok to dump semi treated sewage into the Hudson maybe in five to ten years we are going to find this is riot a safe practice so I would ask you the Town Board to consider that. Treatment of sewage after looking at the SETS sending the sewage through a pipe line to Glens Falls is really the only acceptable alternative. With the developer assuming the full cost of the projects as residents will not realize any profit or gain from this development, the developer will. Pipe effluent to the Hudson below the water plant or above it is unacceptable as any breakdown in the plant would cause raw sewage to endanger homes and camps along the'Hudson. if you want to turn to page 13 of the sewage...it mentioned a couple scenarios that could happen one of these is called shock loading anyone unfamiliar with the sewage treatment plant that it depend an microorganism small living organism to break down the sewage in here they say that shock loading is when a substance such as a chemical lethal to the :microorganism enters the plant. No `knowp source is expected in this development. Now you are talking three golf courses shopping areas, restaurants, light industries or even home .owners dumping chlorine bleach down the drain that no shock loading will occur in this system. Another thing I mi mention sewage the developers preferred alternative he would need to acquire a right of t to the Hudson River which he would either have to do by buying the land or acquiring some,' through eminent domain. We should keep that in mind to, since eminent domain is extremely unpopular in the town of Queensbury. On the some page right below that it mentions major catastrophe if a catastrophe such as an earthquake destroyed the plant, raw sewage if there was any place left would flow over the land. No mitigation is proposed for this situation. Now, l do not know if the .rest of you last week felt tremors from the earth quake which had its epicenter up in Canada and I remember five years ago we had a pretty good shaking from the Blue Mountain Luc Area. Also, geologists have said in this area there are quite a few faults running almost from Albany right up to the Lake George Basin and I am told there is another one very rinsn to West Mountain, this should be addressed because the possibility is there. I would ask you to refer to page 17 this is disadvantages of piping the effluent to Glens Falls, number 4. Although safety factors are built in, if a pump station is unable to keep up with inflows for ony reason, raw sewage is spilled over land until the situation is remedied. This is a poor excuse} as Lake George is hooking into the Glens Falls sewage treatment plant and so is Queensbury. if it is being done by these municipalities I do not see where it would be dangerous for the developer to do the same. Number 7 It would,cost twice as much as the proposed system to build with higher operation and maintenance costs which the developer should bear the full brunt of. They want to build this development they should pay the cost, that in itself is a poor excuse. Number 9 If the sewer district is created with costs passed onto all district rgsidents, it is likely that a referendum would;result and, based upon post results, the sewer district would be voted down, and rightly so, why should: these people pay for the developers ,sewage system, he is the one that is going to get the gain or profit out of this now the home owners he should pay the full costs including any book ups that they mi have to make into it if a sewer district is created in the area. Number to The• developej building a community with high infrastructure and upfront costs. The time ,to recover inves 1 capital is in excess of five years. The developer has no control over the operation of the Gres Falls plant. Consequently, if, for example a ,moratorium occurs or an expansion is required which is not consistent with the natural development process at West Mountain, progress on the development could be delayed putting the developer at risk..-...Page, 18 1. Sufficient users of the proposed sewer district are produced to pay part of the cost of construction, operation and maintenance.....(tape turned) including any hook up into their.residences. One final thing I would like to ask the developer having looked through the beginning of this I noticed that the waste water treatment was reportedly prepared by S l Jack Johnson;and Co. who makes its offices at 11 North Pearl Street in Albany, the same address vs New Concept Communities and l am just curious to know if this is an independent consultant or this consultant is in some way affiliated with the developer. SUPERVISOR BORc1-PU;-1 think we can probably answer. that quickly. Mr. Krzys, do you have a quick answer? MR. KRZYS-The developer has retain Jack Johnson Inc. and we hire him for sufficient enough business so he has a planner that is in our office and does the work for us so it is his local office. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-7honk you. MR. MONTIIIE-1 would ask you the Town Board to consider all the things, all the questions I have raised and comments very carefully growth in Queensbury has just been incredible in my lifetime alone. The last five years have been unbelievable 1 have never seen so many houses being built at once. Consider the impacts upon the people of this area who live and drive on those roads and try and listen a little more closely to them. Thank you. SUPERVISOR BORQOS-Thank you very much. I wish we had the time to discuss and react to each on every comment we would be here probably to Christmas but that was a good ear full. TERRY CRANNELL-My name is Terry Cranneli, I am speaking tonight on behalf of the Citizens Advisory Committee on Environmental issues. It is a committee that was established and appointed by the Town Board to advise the Town Board on environmental issues before, before Queensbury. I will summarize my comments tonight and we expect to provide detailed comments, written comments sometime in the future. Traffic, just one general comment on the traffic and it is very similar to what Mr. Monthie just said, if there are any Town Board !!� Members that seriously think that a substantial number of people are going to drive over Spire f Mountain on the way to West Mountain Villages I suggest they drive it themselves and put that to rest very quickly. COUNCILMAN KURUSAKA-A horrible road. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-i`'will just interrupt l have met a Town Board Member yet who agrees that, that is going fo happen, the Consultants keep telling the developer that is going to happen so it is in the repori. i' COUNCILMAN`KUROSAKA-1 do not know who is going to drive becaust? l wouldn't. i.�1. MR.. CRANNELL Would like to talk a little bit about the Sewage Treatment Plant in the Supplement in the Supplemental EIS there is a memorandum in there wriften by Jim Dalton of the Department of Environmental Conservation, he was the professional in DEC Albany that did the analysis of the impact of the sewage effluent on the Hudson River. I spoke with Mr. Dalton in his office in Albany last week and at some length and we went over exactly what he put into his analysis and there is one thing that came out -initially the model that he uses Is called a total diffusion computer modebin that it assumes there is complete and uniform dispersion of the sewer effluent throughout the water column of the receiving waters. He said clearly that would never happen, in order to get that you would need a diffuser on the bed of the stream the developers do not plan on using' that.. so you could expect greater concentration of the pollutants near the receiving point it is hard to say what the greater concentrations would be but' it is not quite a rosy as the report would like you to believe. Another, -i believe in my opinion a major draw back was that the analysis that DEC did only considered domestic 'sewage`, only considered those things thvt' generally are found in toilets and sinks, washing machines. Ilowever, the West Mountain Villages project includes commercial 'and light industrial uses and once you start getting into light industrial and commercial uses YOU get a whole host of toxic substances, you get heavy metals you get organics you get a lot or dlfforent toxics and hazardous materials. There is nothing in the supplemental EIS that even addresses that, they treat it as though it is not going to happen. As it is even with household domestic sewage you get a lot of heavy metals and other things that you might not consider. An interesting point related to that I was `not aware of-this .but, the reach of the Hudson River north of, or in the area of the receiving water currently. exceeds the ....water ! quality standards established by the EPA for heavy metals, cadmium,`copper, lead and chromium. So, presently the water quality even without the West Mountain discharges is not acceptable * according to the EPA-standards, Of course the West Mountain discharges will only exacerbate that situation part iculorly considering the commercial and light industrial sources of pollutants. When- i finished with Mr. Dalton, I asked him, look;'you know what is your professional opinion here are the- three alternatives to dischar9e the sewage waste and he said to me, well, all three that are identified in the supplemental EIS would be acceptable generally from what he knows. lie said in his opinion the best alternative clearly would be to transport the waste to Glens Falls for two reasons. Obviously, it gets the discharge below, down stream of the intake of the Queensbury Water Treatment Plant the second thing is lhut the. Glens T ells Sewugc 11c(Itrrrvrrt Plant iss designed and ot)cruted to removed some heavy metals and he' felt that would be the best alternative for Queensbury. That pretty much covers the sewage the one other comment I would like to make in a broader context is I think that the Town Board in accepting the draft environmental impact statement as written is exposing itself to another legal challenge similar to the situation with Earltown. Clearly the Earltown EIS was not, it was deficient it was not, it did not consider the alternatives that it statutorily should have it was riot any discussion of what kind of a project can we have... SUPERVISOR BORGOS-I do not want to interrupt you or upset you but keep it to the issues of sewer or traffic... AIR. CHANNI:LL-I here is a relutiunship, and the Town Board finds itself in the court trying to defend that judgement. Similarly the West Mt. draft EIS does not have any discussion q ` alternative that stays within the legal density of one unit for three acres. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1 will have to interrupt you, again that is a density area which is not a subject of discussion tonight. Traffic or Sewer are the only two things that we can consider at this hearing. MR. CRANNELL-1 r,rn aware of that, but I just think the recent legal situation that has developed makes this somewhat more important and SUPERVISOR BORGOS-All that certainly will be considered as we get into the Final Environmental lmpon.t Statement and findings of fact and all the other items it is just for tonight to keep everything legal and proper we really cannot go into those areas. MR. CRANNELL-We all want to keep it legal and proper SUPERVISOR BORGOS-We absolutely do. MR. CRANNELL-I just hope that the Town Board really thinks about; that the State DEC is not a police man for the SEQRA law they do not have any statutory responsibility to make sure local governments stick to it. From my knowledge and other people that I talk to at the department they never had to do this before, they never had to hold a municipality to the terms of the law but In this one case they felt it that important because it was,that much of a mistake. The same thing.could be happening with the West Mountain Villages and I wish the Town Board would consider this carefully. Thank you. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you very much Terry. Anyone else, we do not have two hundred but we have a bunch of intres.ted people. Plea,�„� tip the microphone down a little bit and your name and address please. PHYLLIS MIYAUCHI-South Glens Falls, and we have a vacation home up in the Town of Corinth SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Would you spell your name please? PHYLLIS MIYAUCHI-M i y a u c h i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. P1IYLLIS MIYAUCHI-We have to take exit 16 to get up to our vacation homes and or Spire Falls Road and both or them are very hazardous in the winter and, that is one reason that we do .riot live there, wo=would like to live there year around but, so I just cannot imagine anyone taking. that route to get to their homes all the time. Secondly as for as the.sewoge plant is concerned it sounds like it is supposed to be state of the art I know of two gentlemen that are researching this right now, one is (in engineer and what they have, come up with so for is that it is a state: of the art type of sewage plan that the developer has however if there is a break down and it is so complex that there are very likely to be many breakdowns this has happened in the past in other places and if there is o break down it: is quite awhile before they can get the repairs done properly and during that time it is raw sewage that is going into thexiver. That concerns us because our vacation home is on the river just down below where this stuff is going to be coming through. OK. SUPERVISOR BOR GOS-Thank you very much, that is quite clear. , We wishes it were clearer, if it was treated first. Anyone else? Anyone from the develop , wish to speak? Yes, one hand in the back. This time we have a Tabor. TRACY TABOR-This time we have something to' laugh at anyways tonight. First ,of all my name is Tracy Tabor l live at West IL1 oun t ain my parents my family has lived there for a hundred years I guess that you could call us natives of the area. Before 1 .get into my own personal comments on this project 1 want to hand in a petition that some people have been working r on in the area. This petition is oat yct complete it is still to be out it will probably be out till the FEIS is done but we would like to hand it in at_this point in time just to let you know what fhe residences are feelin Tlie g• petition represents approximately 350 people at this p©int in time, again this is o small gross roots effort about four or five people have been going door to door and it is only on the major routes. The petition says, we the undersigned residents of the Town of Queensbury are opposed to the proposed Planned Unit Development of West Mountain by Mike Brandt and Associates we are opposed to the project as a whole because Of its size and negative impacts it would have on our quality of life. Especially from increased traffic and congestion, we are specifically opposed to the proposed widening of West Mt., Corinth and Luzerne Roads which would require the taking of land by eminent domain, and result in the d(WO' inlioll of rr'sidcntiol ot'(Ws i)rjnturily for the benefit of second homeowners and private devo/opers. We as Taxpayers, voters and residents respectfully ask the Queensbury Town Board to reject this proposed development for the good of the West Mountain Area residents and the'Town of Queensbury as a whole. I hand this in tonight we have copies more will be coming in we,will just keep feeding it to you as it goes along. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Please continue to give them to the Town Clerk up until December 16th. MR. TABOR-Ok, now more to my comments, i just want to say one thing I knocked on about a hundred doors myself and I talked to a lot of people and I tell you 80% to 90`10 of the people that signed this petition really have lost a lot of faith in the Town Government.' Ok, you want to stick to sewage and traffic that is fine but I feel SUPERVISOR BORGOS-1t is not only fine it is the law. Sorry MR. TABOR-i know, I know, 1 just wont to say something because I think this is really important. I am afraid if this attitude is town wide we have a real problem, you know, people are saying things rumors and innuendos and they just go around, you know how it is, oh it is politics and you are not going to.be able to do anything about it they are going to do what ever they want. I really feel the people of Queensbury feel like they are being shut out and they do not think they can do anything about it. They see Earltown happening and law suits coming into the Town they are saying well they are doing what ever they want i would just hope that when the little guy comes up to*the microphone we really do open our ears and listen to them because he has a lot to soy and a lot of us have lived here for a long time and really care about Queensbury ok, we will just let it go there. Going on to some of our facts I guess,. I will have to find my place here, the major concerns we bit in this area when we ran this petition were the traffic. One, a lot of people feel he traffic is too much, we-do not feel that there are reasonable assurances that they are not going to use the Cormus Road as an exit out onto Tuthill and over down into Luzerne, which are not roads that are safe enough for the traffic it has now. Congestion was a big issue, sewage that is what we are here for tonight, 90% of the people thought it was crazy to pump sewage even treated sewage into the river 500' up stream from where you get your drinking water, I mean, this is their first proposal. Now, when I asked the question at the first hearing on the DEIS and looked at Mr. Brandt and I asked'the question I said what happens if it breaks down. They got up here an told me that it could not break down, if it does break down and we are talking sewage how much sewage is generated by nine or ten thousand people on top of the mountain? How much sewage is generated in one day? How much does it cost clean up and who is going to fit the bill? And how long does Queensbury have to shut their water down for, if this happens? If Queensbury is selling their water to Fort Edward and Hudson Falls and God knows where else by then are they,going to have to loose their water s,;rvices too. I think we are affecting a lot of people if we put the sewage upstream from the river. 1 also disagree that it should be down stream from the river there are a lot of people that have invested money in camps and homes now, Glens Falls has a state of the art systent to speak state of the art, that sewage should go to that treatment plant if its got a problem Glens Falls can deal with it. That solves them of legal problems ofterwords and solves us the problems now. We do not have to worry bout it As y . far as sewage goes I think the only alternative in my mind is to go down the Corinth Road, pay for the hook up that all those people have to hook up, there should not be a sewage district created and the residents should not have to pay for it. The developer should have to pay for their hookups. If there is a sewage `tax, well it is better than getting their septic:system getting pumped out every two years by Condon. I will try and stick to the things here, but one of the things that a lot of people brought 'up was garbage and garbage sort of goes along with sewage, there is a lot of it. This proposed project will increase the Town garbage;load by 21% Now, I do not think we have really can visualize the magnitude of how many people will actually be up there on top of the mountain but there is going to be a hell of a lot a( ittie people up there on the mountain and there is going to be a lot of garbage. I was wondering myself where are we going to put the garbage? We do not have landfills enough. the are already illegal have to do something with that. g y Y 9 / w e will r COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Bur•n it in the (turn plant... MR. TABOR-Mass burn it, I love that idea. One of the other ones a big thing these people talk about at least ' three hundred of them on that petition want to know what kind of commitment second .home owners are going to make to this community. - Second home owners basically come up here for vacation they are here to have a good time and grant you they have a big playground from Saratoga to Lake George, but we want to know especially the people on this petition are we going to have to let them come to the playground at our expense. If so, we do not want them on the playground. We built the jungle jims. I got the sewage down, drinking water, I had a personnel question that does not really address sewage or traffic but I would like to know where they would get the employees for this operation. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You have to stick with sewage and traffic. I am sorry. MR. TABOR-O-Kee-Doke- SUPERVISOR BORGOS-That other question will be handled at another point. I hate to that;I like total free and open discussion but the developers has some rights. MR. TABOR-You did say at the beginning, that there is going to be another public hearing SUPERVISOR BORGOS-There will be at least a couple more... COUNCILMAN K UPOSAKA-At the final EIS you have another crack at them. MR. TABOR-I would just like to say some of my final comments, is that I do not feel that this project as pro-nsPrt stands to benefit any of the residents that live at West Mountain right now, I see it benefiting private developers and second homeowners who do not live in the area. Increase sales tax is fine but as we see with bigger development Queensbury is growing as a bed roam community race. Already in 1987 there was a statistic survey done one hundred and thirty five communities were surveyed Queensbury ranked number one with residential construction value (it fourty one million dollars. It almost ranked, number, last place with only four million in construction value. I see Queensbury at this point in time needing some light industrial some good clean industrial businesses and less homes. We are going to, get the reputation of Clifton Park if we are not careful here. We do not need more homes on the mountain. Finally if the), can not come up with better ideas that are going to be less impacting on me and my neighbors 1 would hope that you guys would al/ get together and vote this thing down. Thanks.` SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Anyone else? Any member of the Board wish to speak? Mr. K urosak a COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-As an engineer having designed two or three of these so cal state of the art plants they were state of the art at the,time I designed them, they have enc,,, up as a mahitenonce nightmare and a disaster. The only solution acceptable in my-own personnel opinion and I think most of the Board members feel the same way is a direct Connection to the Glens Falls plant because anything else is unacceptable. I got three plants operating in the Town of Queensbury and I wish to deuce I never had anything to do with them. There are a maintenance headache for the private owner and I would not recommend any municipality taking over a private plant like this to operate. They are nothing but a nuisance and they, they are not fain safe, the one in Queensbury Plaza, there is one at Regency Park there is one mound system behind the old Russlers Rest. there is one at John Burke Apts. and any one of the four you look at them and they are a maintenance disaster. As an engineer and as a Councilman I would have to disapprove the sewer system as proposed ,the only thing 1 would accept would be the direct connection to the Glens Falls Sewer Plant. Thank you. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-You are welcome. Yes; Sir. Please state you name and address again for the ladies when they do the typing. MR. JIM WINCHESTER-1 am Jim Winchester and I live on Pitcher Road we moved here three years ago and we bought an existing home so we did not add to the homes, we picked it out because of the rural-quiet street and we soon found out that Pitcher Road was an arterial highway for those coming down West Mt. Rd. and wishing to go to exit 18 or into Glens Falls, short cut, short cut. No one paid attention to the States speed limit because there was nothing 'posted 1 circulated a petition among the nine homes then existing, now -there are fifteen, in the lost year, in the past year. A petition to encourage the Board to get the DOT to put speed limits signs so we requested 40 they put up 45. It would be, I am glad they have done w they did. Very few people now, a lot of people do not recognize that those signs. What we happen to our road if this development went full blown, Would there be increased traffic Pitcher Road has Pitcher Road been studied? Like Corinth Road, like West Mt. Rd. like Spire Falls Road? k COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-1 think Pitcher is in the study... MR. WINCHESTER-1 have not heard of any mentioned of it tonight. 1 would like to ask the representative here tonight that talked about traffic if there has been anything in there about Pitcher Road. falsm..l have one other comment COUNCILMAN K UROSAKA-VanDusen arid Pitcher are both in the study. MR. WINCHESTER-There is a 35AIP11 speed limit on VanDusen that was already there before, i do not know why, i do not know why we got 45, but what would also happen on the Exit of VanDusen Road onto Corinth Road it is already hard to get out on that road, the visibility to the right toward the west is short and if there was a car at all in view on the right I do not venture out. Sometimes there is no car in view and I take a quick look to the left and go out and there is one coning on the right too rust. What would happen to that intersection when people try and get out the same thing that happens on Quaker Road when people try to get out of driveways and make a left turn, like today, I almost hod an accident because somebody came out and made a left turn in front of me, onto my lane. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank y ou. I think our comment related to Pitcher and VanDusen Roads I believe that they are in the study and I believe you are entitled to a copy of that report if you do not have one already. Do we have extra. Yes we do, you are welcome to receive one of those and there is no charge of course. DREW MONTHIE-I would like to speak again. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Yes, come on back up, then Mrs. Potenza... DREW MONTHIE-Drew Monthie, Hughes Court in Queensbury To the gentleman that just spoke they do designate Pitcher Road and West Mt. Rd. as a critical intersection, meaning that it would have heavy traffic flow on it. Thank you. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Mrs. Potenza COUNCILMAN POTENZA-My comments will be brief, I do not know, if this is on, I guess so. I reiterate what we did, what I said at the last meeting. I will only support sewage hookup with the Queensbury Sewer System I think that the traffic study has to be answered as for as exiting off of Exit 20 coming over Gurney Lane down West Mt. and exiting off exit 19 over Aviation Road down West Mt. I support the comments that were made tonight" that once the proposed, the perspective home owners on West Mt. realize that they can go up to exit 18, exit 18 and over Corinth Road they will only have to learn that once and its the shortest of two points. The perfect example of that is the traffic designations coming up the northway for those people wanting to go to Fort Ed, going to Vermont they are the signs at exit 17 are, ask you go off 17 taking 196 over to Fort Edward and then up 40 or up 4 through Fort Edward, ' Hudson Falls to Whitehall. They only do that once then they come home and they go down 149 over 9 and get on the Northway at exit 20 and they head down.` So, as much as you have made a very strong point of the traffic getting off of exit 16 you have not yet convinced me that, that is what the people from the south are going to do. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you. Anyone else like to speak for the first time before we get another duplicate here? Yes, Sir, would you come up first? NED EARL Y-Ned .Carly,Brookshire Trace,Queensbury I have a few specific questions which can either be answered now or possibly on the FEIS. At exit 18 where I believe there are two bridges where the Northway goes over the Corinth Road would those bridges have to be enlarge for the road to b- widened which seems to me would be exhorbitantly expensive. I could not determine that from reading through their description of widening the Corinth Road. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-/ do not believe that is proposed but there are some changes, modifications in the ramps. NED EARL Y-Perhaps that could be later addressed. Also I would like to state again I think that people getting off of Exit 16 is very unrealistic and basically their entire traffic study is based on that fact, so I think really they ought to show us some alternatives of what will happen on exit 20, 19 and 18, because I think that is the reality. In fact, I think that people that are coming up for the weekend it seems to me they are going get off at exit 19 go do some grocery shopping and head back through Aviation Road or Sherman Avenue or one of those roads. I think that is the reality or it. Also, I would ask the Town Board that you would consider all the other development in the area when considering this development because it is all going to impact our future in Queensbury. Thank you. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you Sir Anyone else that has not spoken once? Ok. If not Tracy do you want to come up again? Please state your name and address again. TRACY TABOR-West Mountain-1 just have one quick question. if Mr. Brandt thought it was feasible for people to use exit 16 to get to West Mt. why do they have their routing signs for West Mt. Ski Center, paid for signs at exit 18? ` COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA=Good question. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Any other comments? Mr. Hillis Always speak with respect to people with grey hair. LES HILLIS-My name is Les Hillis I live on West Mt. Rd. I am very, very concerned with traffic. It is a speed wcty down through there now and at the present time there are approximately 280 children being picked up by school busses, just on West Mt. Rd. I think it is a very dangerous road and it is a .speedway now. Number 2. There is a home that 1 know of on Corinth Road it is a nice home it hus been for sale over a year and I know these people personally, they cannot move it. Why, I think we all know why, it is stagnant, they cannot move it. l am against the development completely, have been from the start, 1 do not see why Queensbury needs it the roads are good we got too many speeding now, as I said before the speed signs on West , "' Road mean nothing.' We have dragsters down through all night long and we have high sr chases which ....so. I cannot see the Town of Queensbury getting involved in citizen± something like this. Thank you. SUPERVISOR BORG OS-Thank you.... tape turned. MR.DAVID KROGMANN-1 heard comments about grey hair so maybe SUPERVISOR BORGOS- Mr. Krogmann, you are younger than I am. MR. KROGMANN-My name is David Krogmann, i am Town Attorney for the Town of Lake L uzerne and the Town Board of Queensbury has included the Town of Lake L uzerne representatives as part of this meeting and they are here. I have been asked to simply, restate the position of the Town of Lake L uzerne as it relates to sewage disposal and I know that you are aware of that position and I believe it is the unanimous position of the Town Board in this regard. You may all recall that it was the Town of Lake Luzerne's Engineer, Dick Armstrong that first expressed to us upon initial review of the environmental impact statement his concern as to the plans for sewage disposal. The project developers plans have been modified and amended from time to time, in that regard, but the position of the Town of Lake Luzern Town Board is that there is no acceptable alternative other than the transmission of effluent to the Glens Falls `Sewage Disposal Plant and we continue, the Town of Lake Luzerne continues to take that position and that has been clearly expressed to you I know and to the project developers, both publicly and in private meetings that we have had from time to time. Thank you. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you very much. Anyone else, Mrs. Monahan? COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Two Town Board Members agree with you. COUNCILMAN MONAIIAN-No, I am really just here to listen. SUPERVISOR BONGOS-No comments, here to listen. Mr. Eddy. MR. BOB EDDY-1 am Bob Eddy, Town of Queensbury, Owen Avenue. I am on the Advisory Committee for the Master Plan and Land Use and there is one thing that 1 think that perhaps should be considered here and 1 am not for or against because I am a Town Official. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Is it traffic or Sewer? MR. EDDY-It is on traffic. SUPERVISOR BURGOS-Ok. MR. EDDY-It has to do with the four lane portion that they are talking about from Exit 18 West. We have found on the Advisory Committee that just as soon as we widen the roads they become speed zons. Drag strips if you want to call them, may-be they aren't may be they are. But, I think we feel that we would be better off to slow the traffic down even though it may be undesirub!e for those of us that have to live here a// the time and have lived here for many years. But i think that what we are trying to do is to keep the rural atmosphere in the fawn of Oilrenbury cis yt►ick cis yoti make a four lone road we are going to loose j 1 think and have been proposing for several years making from exit 18 to the City of C is Falls a fot►r lonr: rood. I ant afraid it is going to have to happen but I do not want it wit think in terms or that rural area. Of course if it becomes a commercial as we know it is headed in that direction there is probably no choice. I mean maybe we have got to do it west of there too, but certainly we do not want to loose our rural atmosphere if we can avoid it. SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Thank you very much. Is there anyone else? Seeing no other hands we will officially close the Public Hearing portion related to West Mt. and we thank all of you for coming out for that and you are certainly welcome to stay for our usually fairly boring s� 1 resolutions. Please feel free to leave or stay if you wish you are welcome to stay it is a public meeting but we will not be upset if you turn your backs and walk out of the room. RESOL UTIONS Closed 7:15 P.M. RESOLUTION RETAINING THE SERVICES OF NORTHEASTERN APPRAISAL ASSOCIATES, INC. FOR APPRAISAL PURPOSES RESOLUTION 535, Introduced by Mrs. Betty Monuhun who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mrs. Aforilyrn Potenza: WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is desirous of retaining the services of Northeastern Appraisal Associates, Inc., in connection with the review of the establishment of the Equalization Assessment Rate by the State Board of Equalization and Assessment, and attendance at a hearing before the State Board of Equalization and Assessment in Albany during the month of January, and WHEREAS, Northeastern Appraisal Associates, Inc., has indicated it would provide such appraisal work for an amount not to exceed $9,500.00, NOW, THEREFORE PE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby retains the services of Northeastern Appraisal Associates, Inc.., for the purpose of their review of the establishment of the Equalization Assessment Rate, and attendance at a hearing before the State Board of Equalization and Assessment in Albany during the month of January, at an amount not to exceed $9,500.00, and BE IT FURTHER RESOL VE0, that the bill for services shall be paid from the budgeted account. Duly adopted by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None I Absent: Air. Mantesi RESOLUTION TO AUTHORIZE TOWN SUPERVISOR TO EXECUTE THE TECHNICAL PARK SEWER DISTRICT AGREEMENT RESOLUTION NO. 536, Introduced by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mr. George Kurosaka: WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury desires to connect the sanitary sewer system of the Technical Park Sewer District within the Town of Queensbury to the sanitary sewer system of the City of Glens Falls for the purpose of treatment and disposal of sewage waste generated within The Technical Park Sewer District, and WHEREAS, a proposed forty (40) year agreement between the City of Glens Falls and the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, relative to the said treatment and disposal of sewage waste, has been presented at this meeting, and WHEREAS, a review of said agreement discloses that the proposed agreement is fair and equitable in all respects and that it is in the best interest of The Technical Park Sewer District to enter into the proposed written agreement with the City of Glens Falls, NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury, acting for an on behalf of The Technical Park Sewer District, approve on behalf of the said sewer district the proposed agreement presented at this meeting in the present form thereof, and BE I[' FUR THER RESOL VED, that the Town Supervisor of the Town of Queensbury be authorized and directed on behalf of the sewer district to execute said agreement and that the sewer district be bound by the terms and conditions of the agreement upon the execution thereof by the Town Supervisor. r Duly adopted by the following,,vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: Mr. Montesi DISCUSSION HELD BEFORE VOTE: COUNCILMAN MONAIIAN-In the ngrecment Section 5, when we are talking about real estate taxes and 15% of the taxes to be paid to the City of Glens Falls I am assuming that I am talking that we are talking strictly about Queensbury Land Taxes. i SUPERVISOR BORGOS-Queensbury Town Taxes, which does mean that it is a very small numbs RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. .537, Introduced by Mrs. Betty Monahan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza: RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby moves into executive session to discussion two litigation matters. Duly adopted by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Borgos Noes: None Absent: Mr. Montesi On motion the meeting was adjourned. RESPEC Tr-ULL Y SUQMITTED, MISS DARL EEN M. 'DOUGNER TOWN CLERK