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1990-10-17 ~EENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FIRST REGULAR fEETING OCTOBER 17TH, 1990 INDEX Area Variance No. 47-1990 Bessie Callejo 1. Use Variance No. 75-1990 Glens Falls Country Club 5. Area Variance No. 77-1990 Kenneth l. Baker 9. Area Variance No. 78-1990 Edwin Leo Norton 12. Area Variance No. 79-1990 Alice Amoia d/b/a Graycourt Motel 22. THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WIll APPEAR ON THE FOllOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WIll STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FIRST REGULAR IEETING OCTOBER 17TH, 1990 7:30 P.M MEMBERS PRESENT THEODORE TURNER, CHAIRMAN SUSAN GOETZ, SECRETARY JOYCE EGGLESTON CHARLES SICARD JEFFREY KELLEY BRUCE CARR MÐmERS ABSENT MICHAEL SHEA DEPUTY TOWN ATTORNEY-KARLA CORPUS ZONING ADMINISTRATOR-PAT COLLARD PLANNER-JOHN GORALSKI STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGL IARDI CORRECTION OF MINUTES August 15th: Page 13, towards the top, Mrs. Goetz is speaking, you live on, sib Briwood Circle; Page 10, Mr. Kelley is speaking, third up from the bottom, second sentence, myself, I think there might be some place in between even that one and one that's closest to, sib the road, then at the very end of that statement, so you could get a winding type thing, rather than a straight one, we were talking about the driveway, I guess, or it could say, winding type driveway, rather than a straight one; Page 15, right about the very middle; Mr. Stevenson is speaking, I don't know if you could consider it a hardship, but Howard's developing a new, I think he was say, a piece of property, he was talking about the developing of land that he was involved in; that same paragraph, it says, a few thousand dollars less than he paid for it ÞOTION TO APPROVE THE MlflJTES OF AUGUST 15TH, 1990 AS CORRECTED, Introduced by Charles Sicard who moved for its adoption, seconded by Susan Goetz: Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1990, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Kelley, Mr. Sicard, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Carr, Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Shea OLD BUSINESS: AREA VARIANCE NO. 47-1990 TYPE II LC-1OA BESSIE CALLEJO OIINER: SAlE CORJIJS ROAD, OFF LUZERNE ROAD FOR CONSTRUCTION OF A RESIDENCE 25.5 FT. FROM THE FRONT LOT LINE, 85 FT. FROM THE REAR LOT LINE, AND 36 FT. FROM THE SIDE LOT LINE. REQUlRElENT IS FOR 100 FT. FROM ALL LOT LINES. TAX MAP NO. 124-1-9 LOT SIZE: 1.69 ACRES SECTION 4.020 A JOE CALLEJO, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT MR. TURNER-Does everybody have a copy of the information that they supplied, as an estimate to bulldoze the driveway to the site, 150 feet long, 20 feet wide. We asked them that question, to bring it back, do you remember? MRS. GOETZ-Are they here? MR. TURNER-Yes, they're here. Mr. Callejo, would you care to address the issue? MR. CALLEJO-I'm Joe Callejo. I live in West Hurley, New York, and the driveway can go to the right, as you face the property, to the right, and circle down. I had a contractor look at it and he said he could put, with a bulldozer, he could put the road in, put stone on it, for about $6,000, that's no blacktop, and he could put a drainage ditch on the side, and that would be an easy way to get to that lower plateau. 1 MR. TURNER-That second site that we were talking about? MR. CALLEJa· That second site, right, and, the other thing we would have to do, for septic system, we would have to extend the level area further beyond the plateau that was bulldozed. MR. TURNER-Yes. It would be to the north, is that correct? MR. CALLEJa-That's right. It would be to the north. MRS. GOETZ-Will the house be angled the same as it was proposed, just moved back so many more feet? MR. CALLEJa-No, it would go at a different angle, a little bit more of an angle. MRS. GOETZ-Do you have a map of how it's going to look? MR. CARR-Here, Sue. This is the proposed site. This is, probably, the location he's looking at now. MRS. GOETZ-Back here? MR. CARR-Yes, the second location, the middle location. Mr. Callejo, you showed us three locations, last time. Is this where the... MR. CARR-Well, actually, the house will be at an angle. MR. CARR-Okay. MRS. GOETZ-Is that 50 feet back. MR. CALLEJa-It's a little more than 50 feet. MR. TURNER-No, that was 80, I think, there, wasn't it? MR. CARR-No, this is 80 from the rear. MR. TURNER-Okay. MR. KELLEY-This had, what, 100 foot setbacks all the way around, was it? MR. TURNER-Yes, all the way around. MR. KELLEY-So, we, apparently, we meet it three ways, it's just, from the road, it's 50 feet? Is that the correct? MR. CARR-And the rear, front and rear. MR. TURNER-It's 100 all the way around. MR. CARR-It 50 in the front, and 80 feet in the back. MR. TURNER-It's 100 front, 100 back, and 100 rear. MRS. GOETZ-So, it's two variances? MR. CARR-Yes, front and rear. MR. KELLEY-What's the distance from the rear of the house to the east property line? MR. CALLEJa-It's about 80 feet. MR. KELLEY-I guess I don't have the measurements, here. MR. TURNER-No, you don't. To which, the east property line, Jeff? MR. KELLEY-Yes. MR. CALLEJa-Yes. I don't think it's going to be 80 feet. I think that might be an error. MR. TURNER-What size is the house? MR. CALLEJa-Well, we don't have any house plans, yet. 2 MRS. GOETZ-But, if we give you a variance, you've got to do what we give you. It can't be hit or miss, here and there, if it's closer than what the requirement is. MR. CALLEJO-Obvious1y, to build, and to get plans, there's no point in getting plans if we don't get a permi t. MRS. GOETZ-But I want to make sure you understand that, if you are granted a variance, it has to be not less than what we are going to say. MR. CALLEJO-Okay, are you considering the variance from the back line? MR. CARR-Yes. I guess what Sue is saying is just that, the parameters will be set. MR. TURNER-And you have to fall within it. MR. CARR-A 20 feet relief from the 100 feet off the back. MR. CALLEJO-Okay. I think the one line was 130 feet, and if we went back, 50 from the road, that would leave 80 feet, that would be, like, from the center of the house, because we only have 130 feet deep. Obviously, if we went back 50, and 80 comes to the 130. We would have to go back, say, if we made the house 25 feet long, to use a number it would have to come off that 80. MR. CARR-Okay, so what you're asking for is a rear setback of 65. MR. CALLEJO-The rear setback would be about, less than 60, 55 feet. It would have to be 55 feet. MR. CARR-Okay, right. MR. CALLEJO-If I may, I'd like to change that back, that back line, from 80 feet to 55 feet. MR. TURNER-Is the proposal in the folder, the initial one? MR. CALLEJO-Yes, I think it was, we were looking for 25 feet, initially, 27 feet. MR. CARR-Mr. Callejo, you want to build in this flat area? MR. CALLEJO-That's right. MR. CARR-Right, so this is where he wants to build a 25 foot home. MR. CALLEJO-That's right. MR. CARR-So, that's going to be a little bit different. MR. KELLEY-This says, one inch equals fifty feet. So, there's 50 feet, that would be 100 feet. MR. CARR-So, we're talking about 100 feet. So, he's almost met it, in the front. MR. CALLEJO-Yes, but I really don't want to be restricted to 100 feet, because I'm not sure that that's what it is. It might be 80 feet, but we're certainly going back more than the 25 feet that we originally asked for. MR. CARR-The problem, Mr. Cal1ejo, we have, is that we're under duty to grant mlnlmUm relief, and you come to us with a proposal, and I think we want to grant you what you need, but we can't just say, well, anywhere from 50 feet to 60. I mean, we've got to, ki nd of, know that the house is goi ng to be, at least, in this area, so, what's the minimum you need. Do you know what I mean? MR. CALLEJO-Yes. MR. CARR-And now, if you're planning to put it, even at the beginning of this flat area, I mean, that's 80 feet back, anyway. So, we could give you a 20 foot. MR. CALLEJO-That's what I'm saying. Eighty feet would be okay. MR. CARR-Okay. MR. CALLEJO-I don't think we can, if we go back more, I'm concerned about the back line, getting too close. MR. CARR-Right. I mean, that's not the point. We don't want to put you as far back, we just have to know.... 3 MR. SICARD-Within. MR. CARR-Yes. I mean, 50 feet, obviously, is still up in the high slope area, so that's not where you're going to build. So, we shouldn't give you a 50 foot variance, because that would be too much, but we can give you a 20 foot, if this is more toward the line. Do you see what I'm saying? MR. KELLEY-I don't know. It's a toughy, though. It's that same old stuff. We're doing stuff without knowing measurements, really. MR. CALLEJO-One of the problems that I feel, from what I understand, somebody from the Board was goi ng to go up there and look at the site, and I don't thi nk anybody has gone up there and actually seen the site and seen the problems and the conditions up there, and what can be done. MRS. EGGLESTON-What makes you think that? MRS. GOETZ-We've definitely been there. MR. CALLEJO-You have been there? MR. TURNER-Yes, we've been there. MRS. EGGLESTON-Absolutely. MR. CALLEJO-Okay. Well, then, if you recall, the plateau that can be built on, if we're talking 75 feet or 50 feet, wherever that plateau is, that's the point that we're looking to build. MR. TURNER-Yes, but, I guess what they're saying, what's a definite number, 80 feet from the road, from your property line to the front of the house? MR. CALLEJO-I would say 80 feet, yes. MR. TURNER-And then 25 for the house. MR. CALLEJO-From the road to the front of the house, 80 feet. MR. TURNER-Alright, 25 for the house is 105, that leaves you 25 in the back. MR. CALLEJO-And that's what it is, yes. It's 25 from the back line, okay, and I don't believe that it's going to be a hardship on any of the neighbors, because of the 10 acre zoning. Everybody else, I believe, large plots. The homes are already on there. Nobody's going to build in that area. MR. TURNER-The biggest concern that the neighbors objected to, the two previous times, was, the house being so close to the road. MR. CALLEJO-Yes, I understand that. MR. TURNER-Okay, so, I don't think, knowing the circumstances and the to po on the map, I don't have a problem with granting you the relief on the front and granting you 25 from that line, in the rear, because that's going to serve no purpose to anyone, in the rear. MR. CALLEJO-That's right. MR. TURNER-Your neighbor, obviously, has, have you talked with him, Mr. Rogge? MR. CALLEJO-I haven't seen him, no. I don't see him, here, tonight, and I don't believe he's going to object to it, because he said it would be okay, at the last meeting, if we built on the plateau. MR. TURNER-Yes. So, Jeff, did you scale it this way? Is it 100 feet? MR. CALLEJO-Yes. We have plenty of room on the side. MR. KELLEY-Well, I'd say, from where that 1 ittle dot is, up on the Connus Road side, if you went straight across there, it's, somewhere around 190 feet. So, it's a little over 100 feet. MR. CALLEJO-The side yard setback is no problem. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. KELLEY-I guess we're dealing with the front and the rear. MR. TURNER-Yes, that's it. 4 - MR. TURNER-Okay, the public hearing is over. A motion's in order. MR. KELLEY-He wants to be 80 feet from the road. Twenty five foot depth house. MR. TURNER-Eighty feet from the front. Twenty five feet from the rear. It's 130 feet across. Isn't that what you scaled it out? MR. KELLEY-Well, we had 80 and 25 is 105. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. KELLEY-And it's somewhere around 190, I would say, which leaves 85 feet. MR. TURNER-I thought you said 130? MR. KELLEY-No. It's, like, 190 something. MR. EGGLESTON-Mr. Callejo said, I thought, 130 feet. MR. CALLEJO-The south line is 134, I believe. MRS. COLLARD-It widens out as it goes north. MR. TURNER-Yes, right. MR. CARR-We've got a survey, there, that shows it a lot larger than that. Which one's correct? MR. KELLEY-That's crazy, then, because, if he's way close to the south line, this distance is, he's saying, is 130. You've got to get way down.... MR. TURNER-No, he's saying this is 130. Is that 130, right there? MR. KELLEY-There's 50, there's 100 and 25. MR. TURNER-125. MR. KELLEY-Sixty and sixty is 120. It's 122? MR. TURNER-Yes, that's what we got. MR. KELLEY-That's about what that is. MR. TURNER-What have you got, right across here? MR. KELLEY-Well, that's, like, 190. Here's 200, way over here. MR. TURNER-Yes. Okay. MR. KELLEY-So, that should be about 85. MR. TURNER-Eighty five. Let's get our numbers straight, that's all. It's 85 from the rear. Fifteen on the rear, twenty on the front. MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 47-1990 BESSIE CALLEJO, Introduced by Theodore Turner who moved for its adoption, seconded by Susan Goetz: This is the granting of an 80 foot front setback, which is a 20 foot relief. Granting of an 85 rear setback, which is a 15 foot relief. The practical difficulty is the size of the lot, the contours of the lot, which are for the applicant, limited ability to place the house on the lot. This is minimum relief and a reasonable use of the land. Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1990, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Sicard, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Carr, Mr. Kelley, Mr. Turner NOES: Mrs. Eggleston ABSENT: Mr. Shea USE VARIANCE NO. 75-1990 TYPE: UNLISTED WR-3A GLENS FAlLS COUNTRY CLUB OWNER: SAME ROUND POND ROAD FOR CONSTRUCTION OF A NEIl CART STORAGE BUILDING TO REPLACE THE EXISTING SMAlLER BUILDING, SECOND FLOOR EXPANSION OF PRO-SHOP AND A NEW SNACK BUILDING WITH PAVILLION REPLACEMENT. (WARREN COUNTY PlANNING) TAX MAP NO. 67-1-1, 5 LOT SIZE: 196.78 SECTION 4.020-0 5 - -- CARL SCHRODER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT MR. TURNER-Have you got that Long Form SEQRA in there? MRS. GOETZ-This one, right here? MR. TURNER-Yes. We have to make a motion to, if we so choose, that the ZBA will be the lead agency for this SEQRA Review. MRS. GOETZ-Is that what we should do? MR. TURNER-Yes, that's the first thing. MRS. GOETZ-And that doesn't effect Site Plan Review, or, do they go to Site Plan Review? MR. TURNER-They do, yes. MR. GORALSKI-You don't have to do a coordinated review. MR. TURNER-No, it's not a coordinated review. MR. GORALSKI-In that case, you don't have to, you would just review the Form. You wouldn't have to establish lead agent. MRS. GOETZ-Do we have to read every question, and go over and over it? MR. GORALSKI-You should, yes. MR. TURNER-Like we did the last time, yes. MS. CORPUS-Do you have the Long Form with you, there? MR. TURNER- Yes. MRS. GOETZ-It looks like it. MR. TURNER-They've answered all the questions on the front. We answer all the questions in Part II, but we have to make a motion, entertain a motion to make the ZBA lead agency, that's the first thing. MRS. EGGLESTON-Didn't John just say we didn't have to do that? MR. TURNER-Yes, we did it the last time. MS. CORPUS-That was a coordinated review action. There are no other agencies involved, here. MR. GORALSKI-There's no other agencies involved in this. MR. CARR-So, we are the lead agency. MS. CORPUS-Right. MR. GORALSKI-You are. MR. TURNER-So, we are. MS. CORPUS-The Board can go ahead and review the SEQRA Form, at this point. MR. TURNER-Alright. No motion's required. MRS. GOETZ-Where's the Snack Bar, because I've got to know? Is it on the golf course? MR. SCHRODER-Good evening. I'm Carl Schroder from Rist-Frost Associates, representing the Country Club. I'd like to make a clarification on that. I recognize that, on the agenda, the Snack Bar and Pavillion are included, as part of that request for variance. In actuality, the Snack Bar and Pavillion are to be located in an RR-3A Zoning, which is a permitted use for that type of facility, and for a golf course, for that matter. It's across the road. MRS. GOETZ-Is that what's called the well? 6 MR. SCHRODER-Yes, that's correct. If I may, the project, basically, sites in two different parcels, two different sections. The RR-3A Zoning boundary is Round Pond Road, with the WR-3A Zoning. The Snack Bar facility, etc., will be located in the RR-3A and, again, as such, is not at issue, as far as far as a request for variance. The expansion of the pro-shop and the construction of the cart barn, however, are located within the WR-3A areas. I would further note, the Long Fonn is addressing the enti re project, whereas, agai n, the request for vari ance is for that porti on of the project. So, you'll see questions answered, regarding septic systems, for instance, which are not applicable to the WR-3A section. MR. CARR-John, can I ask you a question? When we go through this, all we have to do is just go through the impacts, right? MR. GORALSKI-Part II. MR. TURNER-Part II. MR. GORALSKI-And, if you'd like, I'll keep a copy and check the answers off. MR. CARR-Would you do that for us? MR. GORALSKI-Mr. Chairman, you should make a motion on the SEQRA, before you proceed. MR. TURNER-We have to have a motion to take care of our SEQRA Review. Þl)TION OF DETERMINATION OF NON-SIGNIFICAllCE, UNDER PART 617 OF THE STATE EflVIROrlŒlfTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT FOR USE VARIANCE NO. 75-1990 GLENS FALLS COUNTRY CLUB, Introduced Bruce Carr who moved for its adoption, seconded by Susan Goetz: Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1990, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Carr, Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Kelley, Mr. Sicard, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Shea ABSTAINED: Mrs. Goetz MR. TURNER-Would you care to add anything about your cart storage building and that second floor addition? MR. SCHRODER-I'd like to reiterate a couple of points. First off, the cart storage building construction is being undertaken, primarily, because existing cart storage building, and I personally inspected the building, at one point, is in a state of disrepair, would require a fairly extensive repair, to bring it back to a usable structure, for a reasonably long period of time. It certainly wouldn't have any significant life, even after that, with interim repairs. So, the Country Club has undertaken to replace the building, in total. The expansion of the building is not to increase space for more carts. It's, rather, to allow a safer way of moving around within the building, because, right now, the carts are stacked very close together and, in order to try and move one cart out, many have to be shuffled. People have to step over things and the like. Secondly, I'd also like to, again, state that the expansion of the pro-shop is to facilitate the operation of that shop, but that we are not anticipating disturbing earth or disturbing land, in doing so. Essentially, what that expansion constitutes is, no increase in the footprint of the building, and, if I may, just quickly, this is a rendering I've sketched, very quickly, for my own benefit, an area, approximately, here, which is, currently, this is currently a shed roof, and the expansion in question is simply to push out, over that shed roof, to the existing building limit, the existing building walls, to expand that second story. It's not increasing the footprint of the building, whatsoever, and, again, any questions that the Board may have. MR. TURNER-Does anyone have any? The cart storage building, that's going to be on the, how much bigger, how much larger? What are we doing there? MR. SCHRODER-It's about a 40 percent area increase, but that's kind of misleading. Let me show you, on the detailed Site Plan, this may be a bit difficult to see, but I'll try and highlight it with my pencil. The area I'm currently shading, and it goes out beyond the proposed new limit of the building, is the existing cart storage building, as such. The new area, is what's shaded in blue. So, this perimeter is the existing. It's about a 40 percent increase. One thing that will be stored, in addition to carts, in that building, will be bags, golf bags. The building, itself, will appear, it's, basically, a very simple building. It will appear as such. There isn't much need for windows and the like. It's basically a shed to store the carts. One section of the building, which is the main, cart storage area, which projects out, on this map, with a door, there's a second story, with a storage 10ft, again, for bags and the like. So, that's what is proposed. It's, essentially, currently, 7 the building has got partially transparent siding or translucent siding. It's a wood frame structure of varied construction, if you will, kind of grew up around itself, over the years, and it will be replaced with a nice, clean, new structure. MR. TURNER-Any questions, so far? MR. KELLEY-I guess I'd have one to, you, Ted, or maybe some of the people over here. This is a WR-3A Zone? MR. SCHRODER-That's correct. MR. KELLEY-Alright. So, we have to have a Use Variance, but did this use preexist this zoning? MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. GORALSKI-Yes. MR. KELLEY-That would be part of a practical difficulty. MR. TURNER-Yes. Well, it's a preservation of the property rights of the owner. They've been there a long time. MR. KELLEY-Right, a long time. I guess my question would be, if we look at the four tests for Use Variances, I'm wondering how that applies, in this particular case, or how would we go about addressing that? MR. CARR-I think you've got a preexisting use within the zone. MR. TURNER-The use is already there. MR. CARR-And I think that answers a lot of questions about a Use Variance, because it's really not changing the use. MR. TURNER-The use isn't going to change. MR. CARR-It's expanding the use. MR. TURNER-Yes, right. It's a minor expansion of the use that's there. MR. CARR-Right. MR. KELLEY- I mean, I understand the thi rd part, where they talk about the preservati on of a property right, that's obvious, that's clear. MR. CARR-But it's not the same as the other property owners in that area. So. it is unique to this lot. you know, or there are characteristics of this land that are unique. MR. SICARD-Is this building bigger than the existing building? MR. SCHRODER-It's about a 40 percent increase, yes. MR. SICARD-Forty percent? MR. SCHRODER-Forty percent increase over the exi sting cart storage shed. that's correct. The other structure. again, is not bigger in footprint. I might note that any of the work done in this area would be, basically, invisible from adjoining land owners. The closest property line is one between two parcels, both owned by the Country Club on Round Pond Road, and no one else the area would be impacted by any sort of visual. MR. SICARD-It's a one story building? MR. SCHRODER-One story with one section, one piece of it, that's two story, at the end. MR. SICARD-What do you plan to put upstairs. there? MR. SCHRODER-Golf bags. MR. SICARD-Golf bags? MR. SCHRODER-Yes. and some miscellaneous supplies. MR. TURNER-Any other questions? 8 MRS. EGGLESTON-I was wondering if Jeff was dealing with Number Three? MR. KELLEY-Well, Number Three and Number Four, I don't have any problems with. MR. CARR-Well. even with Number Two, it really can't yield a reasonable financial return, basically, because you've got such a large expanse of land, but I don't think the road frontage is there, that would allow a reasonable return, if we forced them to change the Country Club into single family dwellings. I mean, it's just. that's impractical. I think you can find specific financial hardship for this applicant. MR. KELLEY-Okay. I'm for what they want to do. I'm just trying to, alright. MR. CARR-Sure. That's what I'm saying is I think we can find the criteria to allow them to expand their nonconforming use. MR. KELLEY-I guess that's all I'm after. MR. TURNER-Right. I'll open the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COIIIENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED CORRESPONDENCE MRS. GOETZ-There's a letter from Elizabeth Swan. saying that she is unopposed to the variance. Warren County Planning Board returned "No County Impact" STAFF INPUT Notes from John S. Goralski, Planner (attached) MR. TURNER~Any further discussion? Motion's in order. MOTION TO APPROVE USE VARIANCE NO. 75-1990 GLENS FALLS COUNTRY CLUB, Introduced by Bruce Carr who moved for its adoption. seconded by Charles Sicard: This would allow the expansion of a nonconforming use as proposed by the applicant. We believe the criteria for the Use Variance has been met by the applicant. in that, this parcel has predated Ordinances and has always been used as a golf course. Strict application of the provisions of the Ordinance would create unnecessary hardship on the applicant and wouldn't allow the applicant reasonabl e fi nanci a 1 return. The vari ance is necessary for the preservati on of exi sti ng property rights of the applicant. This variance would not be detrimental to the purpose of the Ordinance. Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1990, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Carr, Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Kelley. Mr. Sicard, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Shea ABSTAINED: Mrs. Goetz MR. SCHRODER-Thank you very much, and, if I would. I'd like to extend both my personal apologies and that of my firm in not attending the meeting last week. I tried to make up for that by showing up a half hour early this week. Thank you very much. NEW BUSINESS: AREA VARIANCE NO. 77-1990 TYPE II RR-JA KENNETH L. BAKER OWNER: SAME FIELDVIEW DRIVE, IN THE STONmATE DEVELOPMENT FOR AN ADDITION OF A 900 SQ. FT. DECK IN THE REAR OF THE HOUSE. ADDITION WILL NOT MEET THE SIDE YARD SETBACK. TAX MAP NO. 48-4-15.1 LOT SIZE: 36,298 SQ. FT. SECTION 4.020 E KENNETH BAKER, PRESENT MR. TURNER-This deck, right here. terminates, right here, is that correct? 9 MR. BAKER-Correct. MR. TURNER-Right now? MR. BAKER-Here's a pi cture of it. As you can see, if you move that deck in, it's a 12 foot secti on. If you move that in five feet, you're going to be in the middle of that French door. MR. TURNER- Yes. MRS. GOETZ-How did it happen to get up already? It's in place. MR. BAKER-That's a long story. Do you want the whole thing? MRS. GOETZ-Well, can you make it short? MR. BAKER-Yes. I purchased the house from the Kowanas, in September of last year. I was under the assumpti on that all the permits that I needed were already purchased, because I purchased the house, as is, and had to finish the house. We moved in in October of last year, which was just too late to, basically, build the deck. We started building the deck, assuming that the permit was already there, because our intent was to have the deck there when we first sent the plans in. Unfortunately, all the way through the whole process, nobody put any plans on the house or on the lot and so forth, showing that a deck was going to be out there. The house is, approximately, if you visited the house, you'll see that the doors across the back of the house, which are three of them, are approximately five and a half feet from the ground level. So, naturally, something had to be built back there, but, somehow, no one put down any plans or anything that a deck was going to be there, and the permit part did not have a permit for a deck. MR. KELLEY-Well, if it meets the side yard setback, that deck would end right in the middle of that door. MR. TURNER-Yes. Well, the other thing, too, is that this was zoned SR-30, before. MR. KELLEY-Yes, the zone's changed. MR. TURNER-It's a zone change. MR. BAKER-Yes, you changed the zone, in between completion of the house. MR. KELLEY-You started under one zone. MR. BAKER-And finished it under another zone. MR. KELLEY-And now you're under a different zone, right. MR. TURNER-John, who filed for this subdivision, do you know? MR. GORALSKI-It's Stonegate? MR. TURNER-Yes. Was it Barber? MR. GORALSKI-No. I believe it was Charlie Main, wasn't it? MR. TURNER-No. Danny Barber started it. MR. BAKER-Michael Barber. MR. TURNER-Or, Michael. MR. BAKER-Michael Barber started it in 1972. This is the last house in that development. There's no more expansion, no more room in there. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. BAKER-The zoning was changed in October, I guess, of '89, to a three acre lot. MR. TURNER-October of '88. MR. BAKER-October of '88, to three acre lots? MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. BAKER-My permit was issued, in October of '88, and that's when they started building the house, under the old zoning. 10 -- MR. TURNER-Yes, right, but you state the plans never showed the deck or anything? MR. BAKER-No. It wasn It submitted with the Kowanas. It wasn't put on the Woodbury Plans. It was not put on the McCormack Plan, that you have, that shows that a deck was supposed to be across the back of the house. MR. TURNER-Anyone have any further questions for Mr. Baker? Okay, I'll open the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COMMENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED CORRESPONDENCE STAFF INPUT Notes from Stuart Baker, Assistant Planner (attached) MR. TURNER-On this sketch, here, it shows the two story frame house and the garage, then it shows a one story addition. Did the addition come after the fact? MR. BAKER-No, that was all built. MR. TURNER-All at once? MR. BAKER-Yes. MR. TURNER-Was that on the plan, originally, the addition, or was the addition? MR. BAKER-Yes, that's all open cellar, all the way through. MR. TURNER-Yes. Okay. MR. BAKER-It was all built from September of '88. MR. TURNER-'88, okay. MR. KELLEY-His original blueprint showed that room on the side. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. KELLEY-I don't know why it says, addition. MR. TURNER-I know it, that's why I raised the question. MR. KELLEY-It isn't, really. I mean, it's all part of the house. MR. TURNER-Yes. I thought maybe the sun room was an add on. Okay. Motion's in order. MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 77-1990 KENNETH L. BAKER, Introduced by Jeffrey Kelley who moved for its adoption, seconded by Theodore Turner: There are special circumstances pertaining to this lot. The house was constructed in a zone that was SR-30 and met all existing setback requirements. After the house was built, the zone was changed, October 1st of 1988, to RR-3A Zone which, by its nature, would cause the house not to meet the new setbacks, due to the design of the house and the location of the patio door on the southeast side of the building. If the deck met current zoning, the access to the patio door would be limited and not of good aesthetic design. Strict application of the Ordinance would cause the applicant great difficulty and a large portion of the deck would have to be removed. The variance requested would not be detrimental to the purpose of the Ordinance or to the other properties in the District. Public facil i ti es and servi ces wi 11 not be effected. The vari ance request is that the south si de of the deck will be 24.81 feet from the southerly property line, instead of the 30 feet required. Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1990, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Kelley, Mr. Sicard, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Carr, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Shea 11 AREA VARIANCE NO. 78-1990 TYPE II LI-IA EDIIIN LEO NORTON OWNER: SAME BIG BAY ROAD TO CONSTRUCT A 40 FT. BY 60 FT. GARAGE WITH A 10 FT. SETBACK FROM THE PROPERTY LINE IN LIEU OF THE REQUIRED 30 FT. TAX MAP NO. 136-1-15, 16 LOT SIZE: 14,589 SQ. FT. SECTION 4.020 N EDWIN NORTON. PRESENT MR. TURNER-40 by 60 would adequately take care of all the equipment you've got? MR. NORTON-Yes, everything that needs to be put in the garage. MR. TURNER-Yes. but I mean, is there going to be any outside storage of any of the other, the chippers. and? MR. NORTON-Most everything I can think of should be able to be put in there. All the equipment that he has. at the present time. anyway. There's also a small garage. on the end of the house. that we could also use. that's 16 by 24. You know. if we needed extra room. we've got that one. MR. TURNER-This one right here? MR. NORTON-Yes. MR. TURNER-Do you live there. now? MR. NORTON-No, it's a vacant house. I own that house, besides my other house that I live in. MR. TURNER-Is there a proposal to utilize the house. or is the house going to be? MR. NORTON-No. It's got to be renovated. It's got a lot of work that has to be done on it. The reason for the garage is, I want to put the trucks down there, because. actually. I'm illegal. where I am. It's a tree business that's in a residential area. I want to move it into a Light Industrial area. and the house has got to be worked on. before it can be 1 i ved in. but we just don't want to leave the trucks there. in the open. They're. like. $30.000 trucks. MR. TURNER-Yes. but I guess what I'm going to say is. is there a point. right now, where there's. maybe the house won't be renovated and you'll tear it down? MR. NORTON-Definitely not. I've always thought of redoing the house. MR. TURNER-Okay, but you said you needed a lot of renovation. You said you hadn't started it yet. MR. NORTON-No. well. I'm doing inside work. like sheet rock and stuff like that. MR. TURNER-Okay. MRS. GOETZ-And you'll be renting it out as a house. later? MR. NORTON-No. he'll be living there. MRS. GOETZ-And that's your son? MR. NORTON-Yes. It's his business. MRS. GOETZ-I see. because that would be. I was wondering if would ever be. like. an office. instead of a home. MR. NORTON-It would probably be considered. no. it would be both. MRS. GOETZ-Both? MR. NORTON-I would imagine, both. office and home, together, the house. MRS. EGGLESTON-That's not going to leave you much yard space. and I know most of the tree people around town do have spaces in their yards. where they cut up. maybe. logs they bring in or what not. . MR. NORTON-My lot I have now is 200 by 300. and most of the logs that we bring to my place. now, are dropped there, and stay there no more than a week. and they're gone. MRS. EGGLESTON-But you're not going to have room for that. on this new. MR. NORTON-No. 12 ----' MRS. EGGLESTON-If you leave the house and put up the garage. MR. NORTON-No. MRS. EGGLESTON-So, then, what will you do with the logs? MR. NORTON-The logs sti 11, there's nothi ng wrong wi th bri ngi ng, most of the wood is fi rewood, that I use, or else it goes to the landfills, like my property is, now. You can see it the way it is now. It's got, what few logs come, come there now, and there's nothing wrong with that. MRS. EGGLESTON-Where are you located, now? MR. NORTON-Stevens Road, West Glens Falls. There's another tree company at the very end of the street, besides us, and there's plenty of room, there. It's just that I would rather, the business doesn't belong on the residential street. So, I've got to put it on a Light Industrial. MRS. GOETZ-How long have you owned this property, on Big Bay? MR. NORTON-Since 1985. MR. TURNER-Has it always been rented? MR. NORTON-No. My uncle lived there. He died in December of last year. MR. TURNER-Okay. MR. NORTON-He did rent part of the house, but that's why it's in bad shape, now. It needs redoing. MRS. EGGLESTON-Am I right, you'd have to be backing out onto Big Bay Road, is that right, out of the garage? MR. NORTON-No, but if I turned the garage around, the way I wanted it, we would have to. This way, there's sufficient room to park a 36 foot truck, by driving in. If you could see the driveway in front of the small driveway, the driveway is 40 feet long. We can bring a vehicle up and turn it into a building, this way. If we turned this building around, this way, there's not sufficient room, without going on the neighbor's lawn, here, to back this way, not and have it 40 by 60 foot building. The property is only 97 feet wide. So, if I put 60 foot, that leaves me 30 feet. There's no way you could put a 36 foot truck in the garage, in that direction. MRS. EGGLESTON-Will the new industrial park border the back? Does it border the back of your property? MR. NORTON-No, it's, probably, I would say, off hand, at least 2 or 3,000 feet. It's all wooded area. It's all forest, from there up. It might even be further than that. It's a long ways through the woods. I have checked with the owner. I think the owner owns about 150 feet or something like that, behind me, and he's got no complaints. I checked both owners, on both sides, and there's no complaints on any of them, but there is a lot of lawn space there. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes, we were there. We looked at it. Still, that's a good sized garage, though. MR. KELLEY-Does he need two variances, rear and side? " MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. CARR-I think one of the problems, here, is that, I mean, it's a Light Industrial Zone, but it's a small lot. MR. TURNER-And the lot's so small. Well, the only reason they're small is because it was residential, to start with. In other words, it's been residential. MR. CARR-Yes, right. MR. TURNER-So, the lots were split up small. All those lots down through there are small. MR. CARR-I guess that's why all those small lots have just been changed to an industrial lots. I mean, it's almost, everybody's going to have practical difficulty, to use those lots as light industrial uses, I would think. MR. TURNER-That's fine, but, the other thing is, you've got to take into consideration that the lot is limited and you're limited as to what you can do on it, too. Even though it's Light Industrial, you're still limited. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes, because there's still houses, right, close to it. 13 MR. TURNER-There's houses on both sides of him. MR. CARR-Well then, why would the Town have changed the zoning away from residential, to make it into Light Industrial? I kind of think that kind of shows poor planning on their part, if they're trying to put Light Industrial on a quarter acre lot, or whatever. MRS. GOETZ-But look at the rest of Big Bay Road, and it's proximity to the Northway. MR. NORTON-It's going to be a business area. You've got Pro Craft and Dicto, those are big companies. MRS. GOETZ-Probably, eventually, those lots are going to be sold off, and they won't be homes, anymore. MR. NORTON-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-They've already been eliminating them as. MR. NORTON-Yes. One, right next door, has already been sold, within a year. They've moved, now. One across the road's been sold to a business, also, so that's, the main concern is, like David knows, I am on a residential street and I should be in a Light Industrial area, and this is the only place we've got. MRS. GOETZ-That you happen to own. MR. NORTON-Yes. MRS. GOETZ-Well, I do think it's good to get out of residential. Lord knows we've had our troubles, there, but I wonder if, eventually, you would purchase that property next to you? MR. NORTON-I'd like to. MRS. GOETZ-Thinking ahead, so that it wouldn't always be this type. MR. NORTON-Well, we have talked to one of the guys, there, and they're just waiting to see what the whole industrial park is going to be. MR. TURNER-Yes, what develops, right. MR. NORTON-Yes. Nobody wants to do anything until then, but this is something, I want to get these vehicles down there. I mean, we've got, like, three trucks that are worth $30,000, and you can't park them on a lawn, and leave them there. You've got to put something, to enclose them, to lock it up. MRS. EGGLESTON-Does the 10 feet from the side line, does that include the overhang, the eaves, from this building, or do they come off another? MR. NORTON-I think the overhang on this building's a foot. MRS. EGGLESTON-So, really, then, you're talking nine feet, from the? MR. TURNER-Nine feet. MR. NORTON-Yes. well. without the handicapped parking. 16 by 20. if I didn't have to have that handicapped parking that big, there, then I could move it over a foot, and still have your 10 feet. MRS. GOETZ-Why do you have to have handicapped parking? MRS. EGGLESTON-You don't have customers in your. DAVID HATIN MR. HATIN-State law. MR. TURNER-It's the State law. MR. NORTON-Nobody comes to the busi ness and says. wi 11 you come cut my tree down. They don't do that. They call you up on the phone. but we have to have the handicapped. MRS. GOETZ-I suppose it's possible. somebody might. MR. TURNER-Have you considered turning the garage the other way? 14 MR. NORTON-Yes, that's the problem. Turning the other way, it's less room. It's 97 feet. The building is 60, that gives you 30 feet. MR. TURNER-You've got 37 feet. MR. NORTON-30 feet, isn't it? MR. TURNER-You've got 97.26 feet. MR. NORTON-Well, we have tried it with the big trucks. KEITH NORTON MR. KEITH NORTON-We have marked the lot out, to the different ways a garage could be positioned, and we took the trucks down, backed them in, from the highway, to see if we could situate them into the staked out area for a garage. One of the trucks, which is over 36 feet long, it's, to make that bend, we end up havi ng to bri ng the nose of the truck onto the nei ghbors 1 awn, to do it, to make it into a garage. MR. EDWIN NORTON-We tried kitty corner, too. MR. KEITH NORTON-We can build the garage, short of being 40 feet wide, the same positioning as where we've asked for it, here, but, then, to get the trucks into the garage, we have to remove the two trees that are next to the house, and we want to keep those trees. MR. EDWIN NORTON-We've already removed two trees. MR. KEITH NORTON-We'd have to move the driveway. We want to keep the driveway where it is, just move the garage over, 10 feet from the side, and move it back 10 feet from the rear property line. If we move ahead, to meet the current 30 feet, we wouldn't be able to use the existing garage. MR. TURNER-No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying, just turn it the other way, but decrease it. MR. GORALSKI-Excuse me, sir. Could you state your name, for the record. MR. KEITH NORTON-I'm Keith Norton. I own the tree service. MR. TURNER-I'm saying, position the garage, the 60 foot way, across the width of the lot, but move it back. Turn it the other way, so you can drive right into it, instead of driving in this way. MR. EDWIN NORTON-You mean drive in 40 feet? MR. TURNER-Drive it right in. That's what you're going to do, aren't you? MR. EDWIN NORTON-Yes, but you have to drive in, he's trying to drive in, let's say the building, driving in the 40 foot direction. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. EDWIN NORTON-The trucks are too big. MR. KEITH NORTON-That would give me, with a 36 foot long truck, if you're in the garage, trying to work on it, it gives you a left over of four feet, that's two feet in front of the truck, two feet behind the truck, and then, to have any kind of tools or move anything around it, to work on the truck, it would be, an awful awkward situation. MR. EDWIN NORTON-We have tried it. We've situated the garage on the lot, in all different directions. MR. KELLEY-Ted, there's something strange, anyway, because, if this lot's 97 feet wide, somewhere, there's 10 feet missing. You've got 35.2 on the right side setback, and the building's 40, right? MR. TURNER-Forty, yes. MR. KELLEY-So, there's, what, 75? MR. TURNER-75.2, and 10. MR. KELLEY-And you've got 10, is 85, but the lot's 97. You've got 12 feet missing. MR. EDWIN NORTON-Probably in between the two garages. Did you add that in? MR. KEITH NORTON-Yes. There's, approximately, 12 feet between the current garage and the edge of the proposed, new garage. 15 '- -- MRS. EGGLESTON-No, but your map shows 35 feet from the side line to the garage, 35, say. See your arrows. MR. CARR-Okay, so, it's 35, to here, it's, basically, off the site line of the house, is 35.2. Jeff, that 35.2 is wrong. If you take the site line of the house.... MR. TURNER-It terminates right there, the site line of the house, and then add 12 feet more to it. MR. CARR-Yes. So, you've got 35.2, plus 12. MRS. EGGLESTON-So, this arrow should be, right to here, is 35 feet. Okay. MR. EDWIN NORTON-But, I could move the garage over, if it wasn't for that. If I've got 12 feet, I could come this way. MR. KEITH NORTON-If you move it over, then we're still going to have to remove the trees. MRS. EGGLESTON-Does this have to go, here, this handicapped parking? MR. EDWIN NORTON-According to David, it does. I have to put it some place. MRS. EGGLESTON-You couldn't put it some place else, but not necessarily right there. MR. EDWIN NORTON-No, this is an unused garage. This is not a used garage. This would be, like, an office. I don't know why you couldn't have the parking, there. MRS. EGGLESTON-Did he say you had to have it back here? MR. NORTON-That's where we came up with the best spot. MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay, thank you. Ted, what about the handicapped parking, the 12 feet, there. Does that have to be right there, then? You could move over a little. MR. TURNER-Are you going to have the office in the house? MR. EDWIN NORTON-Eventually, yes. Eventually, probably, that garage part, that's on the end, or, there's another one built off the other end of the house, that could be an office, either end. There's an enclosed porch that's, probably, 10,12 feet wide, that could be made into an office, on that end of the house, and then there's the 16 by 24 garage on that end, that we haven't deci ded whi ch would be the best. Nobody comes here, so the office is a telephone thing, and that's it. MR. TURNER-Even though that garage is 40 by 60, you're not going to get, you're not going to have everything in that garage, all the time. MR. EDWIN NORTON-At night time, everything should be in there. MR. KEITH NORTON-There's a 70 foot area lift truck that'll fit in there, that's the truck that's 36 feet long. MR. TURNER-Yes, but that means you've got no benches left or anything, no place for benches. MR. KEITH NORTON-Believe it or not, yes, there is. MR. TURNER-Okay, let's hear it. MR. KEITH NORTON-Okay, on the one side you can put the 70 foot bucket truck. MR. TURNER-Yes, okay. MR. KEITH NORTON-In the center of it, the log loader truck, that's, approximately, 28 feet long, or so, and then, on the next side of it, the brush chipper and the stump grinder can be placed there, and the truck that is used, it's a combination truck we use for pulling both the brush chipper and stump grinder, when we're on the job site, would be able to fit in front of those. It would be tight, with all the trucks in there, just trying to work on it. We'd just, simply, have to either move one of the trucks, while we're working on the others, but they do fit in there. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. KEITH NORTON-There are two other trees services in the area, using these same size garages, one of which I worked for, before, and we were able to fit all the equipment in their garages, and have the work benches on the end. 16 MR. TURNER-That side setback would be nine feet, instead of ten feet. MR. EDWIN NORTON-We did try all other ways, angles, to put that, by using the trucks, themselves, down there, and nothing worked. Sooner or later, you're going to run into the side of the garage, or something, if you do it at a different angle, other than straight in. MR. TURNER-It didn't work out by turning it the other way and driving them in, and, kind of putting them in stalls, in a sense? MR. EDWIN NORTON-No. MR. KEITH NORTON-There's angles for getting them in there. MR. TURNER-Yes, but you put your big trucks over here and all your small stuff over here. MR. EDWIN NORTON-The two trees, there, see the two trees on the lawn? We don't want to lose that lawn and those trees. There is a Blue Spruce tree, two Blue Spruces and a Maple, and we don't want to lose them. It would really take away from that place down there, if we lose them. MR. KEITH NORTON-The other consideration for turning the garage to make it 60 feet wide, in that area, is we want to be able to have that area of lawn, in the future, if we need to work on the septic system of the house, put in a 1eachfie1d or such, so that we would have a large enough area to do that. MR. TURNER-Where is that, now? MR. EDWIN NORTON-Right behind there. MR. TURNER-Right here? MR. EDWIN NORTON-Yes, there used to be a septic, here, and now there's one, here, but these are old septic and who knows how long they're going to hold up. MR. TURNER-Yes, so, when you have to replace it, you're going to have to go back here, or here. MR. EDWIN NORTON-This is it, unless the Town comes down through with a septic. MR. TURNER-Yes, well, that would be a long time, I think. MR. EDWIN NORTON-That's the reason we don't want to put it there, you know, another reason. MRS. GOETZ-Did you talk to the neighbors on the south? MR. EDWIN NORTON-Yes, on the south, yes. MRS. GOETZ-That's the white house, right? MR. EDWIN NORTON-Yes. MRS. GOETZ-And what do they think? MR. EDWIN NORTON-Fine. They said, go five feet, if you want to. He doesn't care. In fact, all the neighbors say they don't care, put it on the line. MRS. EGGLESTON-Have they sold, though, to a, does someone have an option to buy them? MR. TURNER-Which house has been sold, Winchell's? MR. EDWIN NORTON-The second one on the right. MR. KEITH NORTON-I'm not sure of the name of the one that was sold. MRS. GOETZ-Not the white house. It's right next door. MR. EDWIN NORTON-No, the second one. The schackiest looking one. MR. TURNER-The one to the west is Winchell. The one to the south is Troy. MR. EDWIN NORTON-What's his name? He worked for Grand Union. MR. KEITH NORTON-No, Mr. Troy hasn't sold. 17 '- MR. TURNER-Which one is his house? MR. KEITH NORTON-The white one. MR. TURNER-The one she's talking about. MRS. GOETZ-So. he is planning to stay there? MR. EDWIN NORTON-Yes. In fact. he uses my driveway. now. quite a bit. I can't think of the guy's name. on the other side? MR. KEITH NORTON-Ronny Stewart. MR. EDWIN NORTON-Ronny Stewart's house has been sold, from what they tell me. MR. TURNER-Yes. there's a couple of them that are right. kind of close together. MR. EDWIN NORTON-Yes. MR. KEITH NORTON-It's. actually. for aesthetic value. we're hoping that both of those will be sold and removed. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. EDWIN NORTON-I also included it that. and I told them. at the same time. that there would be a stockade fence put up, which I have to, also. get a permit for. right? MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. EDWIN NORTON-But that would hide a lot of the. it's pretty clear there. now, except for the one shack, which I think I wrote on there. will come down, when I built them. The one way in the back right hand corner. MR. TURNER-Yes. the shed, the existing shed? MR. EDWIN NORTON-Yes. that will come down, once the building's up. MR. KEITH NORTON-I think what Mrs. Eggleston was asking about. as far as wood being there. there wouldn't be any wood being brought in or dumped in the yard at that location. MR. TURNER-You don't really have room enough for it. MR. EDWIN NORTON-There would be no room. MR. TURNER-Unless you tear the house down. MR. CARR-John, I've got a question on the accessory buildings in a Light Industrial Zone. Pat. it says here. this is just that they might need another variance. but the accessory structure is less than 50 feet from another building. MRS. EGGLESTON-Page 88, under Section 7.074. Number Three. MR. EDWIN NORTON-I don't know if there's a building within 50 feet. or not. MR. CARR-The house is. MR. EDWIN NORTON-The house on the right? MR. CARR-No, the house is. MR. EDWIN NORTON-Oh. my house. My ~ house it has to be? MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. CARR-I just wanted to make sure you got the variances. if you need them. MRS. EGGLESTON-From the house that's there and the proposed garage. where you've got the 12 feet. MRS. COLLARD-Thank you for catching that. MR. CARR-That's interesting, 50 feet. 18 -- MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes, 50 feet. Fifty feet from every building, in Light Industry. What does that do to those little, was that Light Industry where those little stores, no that was Highway Commercial. MR. TURNER-I think that, in a sense, reflects the size of the zone, and, probably, the property that anybody would end up buying, to put a Light Industrial use on. MR. KELLEY-You're talking, at least, one acre. MR. TURNER-Yes, that's right. It's Light Industrial One Acre. MR. KELLEY-So, you'd have, probably, room enough to do that. MR. TURNER-That's why that 50 foot is there. MR. CARR-Right. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. TURNER-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-So, in that regard, he'd be asking maximum relief on that section of it. MR. TURNER-Maximum relief, yes. MR. CARR-I would say minimum relief, because, I mean, he's got to have relief, somewhere. MRS. EGGLESTON-But this is asking for maximum, 12 from 50, you'd have to have 38 feet relief. MR. CARR-Alright, but where would minimum relief be, on this property? Closer to this line? MRS. EGGLESTON-No, we can't do that. MR. TURNER-Well, you know, that was my comment the first time around, I think. The lot is so small and to put a, such a, you know, with everything on it, with a house remaining on it, and that garage, 40 by 60, on it, you're just maximizing the lot right out. He wants to live there, have his office there, but he also wants a 40 by 60 garage to put all the equipment in, and you're just maximizing the lot right out. MR. EDWIN NORTON-It says he's got to have so many feet of green, and it's well over that maximum amount of green. MR. TURNER-Yes, but what I'm saying, it says, you've got to be 50 feet from your house to that garage. and there's no way you can, you just can't get it, that's why I'm saying. you're just maxing out the lot. with structures. MR. EDWIN NORTON-Fifty feet from the house or from the garage? How many feet is it from the house? MR. TURNER-From the house to the garage. 50 feet. that's an accessory structure. the building. in a Light Industrial Zone. MR. EDWIN NORTON-What do you do, tear the house down? MR. TURNER-No. I mean, that was my first. that's why I asked you. the first time around. MRS. GOETZ-What's on the north, again? Is that what you said is a shack? MR. KEITH NORTON-I just a little. like. storage building. MRS. GOETZ-That? Not that. In the whole lot that you don't own. MR. KEITH NORTON-There's a house there. next door. MRS. GOETZ-And. is someone living there? MR. KEITH NORTON-Yes. MRS. GOETZ-Is it possible that you could by that lot? MR. KEITH NORTON-At the current time. no, because he wants to wait and to see how much they develop on the industrial park. MR. EDWIN NORTON-From the corner of the house. not the garage. it would be about. 16 and 12. 19 MR. TURNER-You've got to go from the garage, though. The garage is attached to the house. MR. EDWIN NORTON-You've got to go from that other garage, to the garage. MR. TURNER- Yes. MR. EDWIN NORTON-Well, that's the only place we've got to put it. I don't know what we can do. MR. TURNER-That's why I was trying to get it turned around the other way, get it away from the house. It's a maximum use of the lot. You've just got a lot of stuff on there, for the size of that lot. MR. KELLEY-Ted, the problem is it's going to probably keep occurring, because look at all those. MR. TURNER-They're all small lots. MR. KELLEY-I mean, these other lots, well, they're all about the same size, 100 by 150. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. EDWIN NORTON-Yes, but isn't that the intention of a Light Industrial place? Isn't that the idea of it? MR. KELLEY-I think the idea is to have a Light Industrial use, but you probably wouldn't have a residence there, with it. See, you're trying to get two things in one. MR. TURNER-For one, yes. MR. KELLEY-And that's why you're running into the problems with the setbacks. MR. EDWIN NORTON-Well, what would happen if I rented the house? That would be two businesses, then. MR. TURNER-If you rent, no. MRS. EGGLESTON-Jeff, the property across the road, I think, with the exception of one piece, Mr. Parillo has bought, that's all going to be... MR. KELLEY-Where it got cleared. MRS. EGGLESTON-Where it got cleared, but the houses, right along there, as well, with the exception of, I think, of one, he's purchased or has options to buy. So. that's all going to be one big, when he gets finished, that whole side of the road. I think, will be.... MR. EDWIN NORTON-Yes. where the trailer is all going to be business, there. too. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. EDWIN NORTON-The only thing is that. why he's starting the business. he's been in business five years. right, and you don't have money to do it all at one time. MR. TURNER-I know. I understand. MR. EDWIN NORTON-He's going to have to live there. in order to make the business go. either that or. where we are now. he can do it there. but that's residential. MR. TURNER-I understand. but. still. you're maximizing the lot. You're trying to get everything out of it you can get. You've got to be 50 feet from the garage to the accessory garage. for your tree business, and you're only nine feet from the line on the side. MR. KEITH NORTON-Now. if the house was considered, rather than a residence, if we converted the whole thing into an office. would that make it different. so that it wouldn't be a 50 foot setback? MR. TURNER-It still has to be. it's a 50 foot. MRS. EGGLESTON-No. it reads, any buildings on the.... MR. TURNER-Any accessory building has to be 50 feet from the other building. MR. KELLEY-You said this back part of this house is 16 feet, that's a garage now? MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. 20 MR. TURNER-Yes, 16 by 24. MR. KELLEY-What if you took, I'm trying to figure this out so you can do both. Maybe you can stay there, and, if you took the garage off, the current garage. MR. KEITH NORTON-The current garage, the existing garage? MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes, the little one off the back. MR. KELLEY-Leave the house part, because you can still live in the house, and you're going to have a big garage. That would enable us to move this big building over, to get it away from this south property line. We might have to make a decision of whether we, how far off the back property line, or how close to the house we could make it. MR. EDWIN NORTON-The back shed's coming down and the garage is no problem. If it has to come down, I would take that down. MR. KELLEY-No, what I'm saying, if they take that off, we might be able to move the big building around a little bit and gain some more side yard, gain some more rear yard, and be farther away than 12 feet. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. KELLEY-I don't think we're going to get 50. MR. TURNER-No. MR. EDWIN NORTON-I know it's 12 plus the 16, so, what's that, about 38 feet, if I took the garage off. MR. KELLEY-Now, the other thing would be, what if you took this big building and moved it up, and part of it attached to the existing house? If it's attached, then you aren't 50 feet away. MR. GORALSKI-Mr. Turner, I was just going to say, we've been discussing that, and I think we'd have to check the Building Codes. However, I think, if this becomes an attached garage, he doesn't need that variance. MR. EDWIN NORTON-I'll attach it. MR. KELLEY-I'm sure you'd have to have fire walls and things of that nature. MR. GORALSKI-Right, but we'd have to check the Building Codes, but I think that's a possibility. MR. EDWIN NORTON-I can attach it. That's no problem. MR. KEITH NORTON-The only reason we needed the rear setback was to move the front of the proposed garage back, so we could still use the existing garage, but if we had to tear the existing garage down, then there'd be no problem moving the garage. MR. EDWIN NORTON-I'd rather keep the garage and attach it, though. MR. KELLEY-Right, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying, you know, maybe you can get this thing... MR. TURNER-You could move it over and bring it up. Is that what you're saying, Jeff? MRS. GOETZ-Plus, your house may turn into an office, eventually, down the line, where you don't live there. MR. KELLEY-Yes. MR. CARR-I think we're also talking about getting rid of these two trees. MR. EDWIN NORTON-No. MR. KEITH NORTON-I'd hate to do that. MRS. EGGLESTON-You could move them. Would you move them? MR. CARR-No, that's what they're talking about, though. If we take off this garage and attach the proposed garage to the house. I mean, that's going to put your entrance to the garage right in through the center of those trees. 21 -- MR. KELLEY-You might have to take those out, but if you attach it, here, you've only got to overlap it, maybe, enough to have a doorway, so you could come out of the house and go into the shop. MRS. EGGLESTON-Could you move them? MR. KEITH NORTON-No, they're too big. MRS. EGGLESTON-Too big? MR. GORALSKI-Excuse me, if I could, to move things along a little bit. that may alleviate these problems. One is taking down the small garage. them with a breezeway. There are a couple of different options. You may Planning Department and the Zoning Administrator, and, maybe the Building if we can come up with something. There are several options One is simply connecting want to sit down with the Depa rtment and fi gure out MR. TURNER-That's what I was going to say. Let's table it and let them talk about it, with them. Maybe you can come up with a better idea, a better plan. Are you willing to do that? MR. EDWIN NORTON-I'm willing to do that. MR. KEITH NORTON-Okay. MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE NO. 78-1990 EDWIN lEO NORTON, Introduced by Theodore Turner who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joyce Eggleston: Tabled at the request of the applicant, to allow the applicant to come up with more infonnation as to his application. Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1990, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Kelley, Mr. Sicard, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Carr, Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Shea MR. EDWIN NORTON-And who do we talk to? MR. GORALSKI-You can call me or Pat, and we'll arrange a meeting. MR. EDWIN NORTON-Okay, thank you very much. AREA VARIANCE NO. 79-1990 TYPE II HC-IA AlICE AMOIA D/B/A GRAYCOURT MOTEL OWNER: SAME SOUTH OF ROUND POND ROAD, NORTH OF SUTTON'S MARKET ON ROUTE 9 TO CONSTRUCT A 16 FT. BY 16 FT. SINGLE STORY WOOD FRAME STRUCTURE ATTACHED TO EXISTING NORTHWEST SIDE OF HOME/OFFICE. PROPOSED ADDITION TO HOUSE/EXISTING LAUNDRY. ADDITION WIll NOT MEET FRONT YARD SETBACK REQUIREMENT. (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) TAX MAP NO. 68-1-2 lOT SIZE: 2 ACRES SECTION 4.020 K TOM MCDONOUGH, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT MR. TURNER-Who's going to represent the application? MR. MCDONOUGH-I'm Tom McDonough. I'm the son-in-law of the present owner. It I S northern boundary owner, to the present owner, eastern boundary owner, to the present owner, and I've spoken to the southern boundary owner, to the present owner, and he approves of our application. MR. TURNER-What I want to know is, what's the distance from the property line to the front of the front of the canopy? What's the distance from the property line to the proposed addition to the laundry? MR. MCDONOUGH-In which direction? MR. TURNER-From the road to the front of the laundry, from Route 9. MR. MCDONOUGH-From Route 9 to what is proposed? MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. MCDONOUGH-I believe it's 45 feet. Forty feet. MR. TURNER-Forty feet? 22 MR. MCDONOUGH-And that is also behind the front line of the building. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. MCDONOUGH-The front line of the building's still just beyond that. MRS. GOETZ-What will you do with the present laundry? MR. MCDONOUGH-Well, we won't have it out there. I don't know what the irrmediate thought is, but I almost had the thought, myself, of putting the public telephone, which is exposed to the weather out there, into a closed area. The phone's been there, in the exposed area, for many, many, many years. That was just a thought for the use of that room, which would be a protected use for the phone, for those who use it, which is the only public phone on the premises. MR. TURNER-Do you have any idea what that distance is, from the garage over to where that driveway starts and goes up the hill, where you've got that little well there, six by six, because you've got this cut into the bank. MR. MCDONOUGH-That is into the bank. MR. TURNER-Yes. Well, let me ask you this question. Why is the laundry located in this particular spot, or why would you want it this way, let's put it that way? MR. MCDONOUGH-Rental is done out of thi s offi ce. My mother-in-l aw does the 1 aundry also. So, it's an easy, ri ght now she comes out, comes over here, comes back and forth over here. Thi sway, it can be right, accessible to her in both ways. MR. KELLEY-In the application, it stated that you wanted more, I guess, more washers and dryers and storage areas. How many washers or dryers, or what is it? MR. MCDONOUGH-There's two washers and one dryer in that area, right there, and there's about, only about a 24 inch space in front of the dryer, and maybe a 30 inch space between the washer and the boards in the front of that building, there. It's a very congested, you know, very narrow area. MR. KELLEY-How many are being proposed, in the new addition? MR. MCDONOUGH-Two washers and two dryers, plus a folding board for laying out the laundry, for folding. MR. KELLEY-I think it said something about storage, also, right? MR. MCDONOUGH-Well, you store a total of about three sets of laundry for every room you have there, for turnover. MR. CARR-Tom, why can't the laundry room go back 10 feet further from the road? MRS. EGGLESTON-Then you wouldn't need a variance. MR. GORALSKI-Yes, you would. You'd need 75 feet. MR. MCDONOUGH-Yes, you would. You'd need 75 feet. MR. TURNER-Yes, 75 feet. It's a regional arterial highway. MR. MCDONOUGH-If you put it to comply with the variance, you'd be back through the garage. So, it really wouldn't matter how many feet, unless you moved it back into the hill. MR. TURNER-Yes, that was my question. Why you couldn't put it, maybe, back here, and get it away from the road, other than making it, maybe, inconven~ent for her to work. MR. MCDONOUGH-Well, it wouldn't support the work and the operation of the motel and laundry room at the same time. This is my wife, Marianne, who also does work over there. MARIANNE MCDONOUGH MRS. MCDONOUGH-Hi, I'm the daughter of the owner. The reason is, our office is situated under the canopy, you know, just beyond it. Our living room is behind it. If we put it, there's a kitchen. You'd have to go into appliances, stove, refrigerator, whatever. By putting it off the living room, we have access to the laundry room. We do not do the laundry. We have a laundry person, but when they don't come in, we do laundry. We don't have to go out 10 feet, in all kinds of weather. We have access to it through her living room, that's, basically, it. MR. TURNER-Yes, but you have to bring the laundry from the units up on top of the hill, down to the laundry, in all kinds of weather. 23 -- MRS. MCDONOUGH-We've been doing that. We can't wash laundry up on top of the hill. MR. TURNER-No, I know you can't, but I'm saying, but you still have to go outside. MRS. MCDONOUGH-Yes, but you have to realize, we're renting room, answering phones, and have access, you know. The girls bring the laundry down. We don't go up and get the laundry. MR. TURNER-Yes. I know. MRS. GOETZ-What about, would she lose her window, there? MRS. MCDONOUGH-Yes, she's going to lose her window, sure. MRS. GOETZ-I wondered about that, when we looked at it. MRS. MCDONOUGH-Sure, but it's going to be easier for her, or I, or whomever, to just go in and say, you can throw in five loads of laundry. MRS. GOETZ-It's just like home, where you're doing everything else and doing the laundry at the same time. MRS. MCDONOUGH-It's very inconvenient when our laundry person doesn't show up, and she's out there doing laundry, and there's a customer in the camp. MRS. GOETZ-Are you more concern about her age, too, and that whole thing? MRS. MCDONOUGH-Well, yes, you know, and I'm there. It's easier for all of us. I mean, you know, it's going to save us all a lot of work. If you put any other room there, it would be the same thing, really. What's the difference, except that it's a laundry room? MR. CARR-Well, I don't think we're concerned with the use of it, except we're just concerned with.... MR. MCDONOUGH-Where it is. MR. CARR-Yes, where it is. MRS. MCDONOUGH-Well, it would be just like putting a garage on your house. It's not going to make the place look unattractive. It's a very attractive motel, and we want to keep it that way. MR. KELLEY-Well, it's almost double the size of the other building. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. KELLEY-But if you looked at the new drawing, based on what they're going to do, the space requirement makes sense. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. KELLEY-You've got to get in there and walk around and fold folding tables. I guess it's one of those thi ngs that's a toughy, only because the thi ng' s already preexi sti ng, and anythi ng you do there you're going to be getting a variance for. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. KELLEY-If there were nothing there, and they were coming in new, you'd say, well, you've got to be back 75 feet, but.... MRS. EGGLESTON-Actually, it's not encouraging anymore than what's already there, by a whole lot. MRS. GOETZ-Well, the own all the other property, so what's the difference, when you look at it that way? MR. TURNER-What do you figure you're going to end up for distance between the laundry and where the preexisting laundry is? MR. MCDONOUGH-The distance between the room and the preexisting, room. Cathy was one of our designers, my other daughter. It's about 25 feet. MR. TURNER-Twenty five feet? MR. MCDONOUGH-From what would be the outside. 24 --- MR. TURNER-Yes, right. Would the other building come down, after you construct the new one? MRS. MCDONOUGH-Well, we don't know. Does it have to come down? If it has to come down, we'll take it down. MR. TURNER-No, I'm just asking, is it contemplated? MRS. MCDONOUGH-We never thought that far. We'd just like to get this done, take it one step at a time. MR. KELLEY-It seems to, kind of, make sense to me. MR. SICARD-There's no other place to put it. MR. TURNER-Let me open the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO CO"'ENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED CORRESPONDENCE Warren County Planning Board said, "No County Impact" STAFF INPUT Notes from Stuart Baker, Assistant Planner (attached) MR. TURNER-Okay, any further questions for the applicant? None? Motion's in order, then. ÞlJTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 79-1990 ALICE NlJIA, Introduced by Joyce Eggleston who moved for its adoption, seconded by Bruce Carr: The applicant needs 35 feet of relief from the front setback because it's located on a regional arterial road. This granting would grant her that relief. All the buildings are currently preexi sti ng, nonconfonni ng structures and they are no di fferent from other structures in the a rea. Strict appl ication of the requirements of the Ordinance would prohibit the construction of a new laundry facility. Because it does preexist, we believe this to be the practical difficulty. The variance will not be detrimental to the purposes of the Ordinance or adversely effect the neighboring properties. There's no neighborhood opposition and this will not adversely effect public facilities and services. Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1990, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Sicard, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Carr, Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Kelley, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Shea (END OF DISK ONE) 25 - MR. GORALSKI-I just gave you a letter from David Hatin, to Mr. Schriner, answering a letter that Mr. Schriner wrote to Dave Hatin and Mr. Schriner, apparently, disagrees, or the neighbors up around Dunham's Bay Boat Company disagree with some of Mr. Hatin's decisions and they are appealing those decisions to the Zoning Board. MS. CORPUS-Mrs. Goetz, do you have a copy of that letter, requesting the.... MRS. GOETZ-I do, right now. MS. CORPUS-No, requesting the interpretation? MRS. GOETZ-I do, now. Did you want me to read it? MR. TURNER-Yes, you've got to read that. Letter from Mildred Woodin, Earl Shortsleeves, John Salvador, Gilbert Boehm, John Schriner, to Mrs. Lee York, Town of Queensbury Senior Planner, dated September 25th (attached) MRS. GOETZ-Was this advertised, then, as a regular? MR. GORALSKI-There's no need for a public hearing, so there was no advertising done. MRS. GOETZ-And on what basis is that? MR. GORALSKI-What basis is? MRS. GOETZ-I thought interpretations had to be advertised? MR. GORALSKI-No, there's no need for a public hearing. I can tell you that John Schriner, who originally wrote the letter to Dave Hatin and who received the letter from Dave Hatin, I believe, was notified by the Planning Department. MRS. GOETZ-Remember we had something about a quick launch? Remember we had a big discussion about quick launch and marina? MR. GORALSKI-The Parillo. MRS. GOETZ-Was it Parillo, or another one? MR. GORALSKI-I believe it was Parillo. MRS. GOETZ-Was it? MR. CARR-Yes, that was the day launch. MR. GORALSKI-Right. MR. KELLEY-Right. Quick launching meaning, you can go in and out in the day, or whatever. MR. CARR-But I think that one was based on preexisting nonconforming use. That was never discontinued. MR. TURNER-Yes, that's what it was. MRS. EGGLESTON-That was debatable. MRS. GOETZ-That was debatable, but, anyway, the outcome of the vote... MR. CARR-The Board voted, it's over. MRS. GOETZ-Right. MR. GORALSKI-I recommend what you do is read the request for the appeal, carefully, and answer whatever that request is. MR. TURNER-Yes. They want an interpretation of a quick launch and sales lot being allowed in a 42 acre zone. MR. CARR-Is this the letter they're appealing, Dave? DAVE HATIN MR. HATIN-Yes. 26 -- MR. GORALSKI-I believe what you should do is read what Dave has written as his determination on those and, if you agree with him, you can state that. If you disagree with him and you're going to overturn his decision, you should state why. MR. CARR-Could I ask Dave to give us the factual background on this? MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. CARR-Just so we know, I mean, what brought this whole thing up. MR. HATIN-I'll try to bring the Board up to speed as quick as possible, without taking a lot of time. What we have, here, was a Special Use Permit that was granted back in 1972 or '73, November 15th, 1972, for a Special Use Permit, Ted, you may be familiar with this, to store boats inside a boat storage facil ity or a warehouse type set up, a rack storage for boats. On that, there were put four conditions. Number One, they couldn't store any boats over 24 feet. All boats would be stored within the building. No trailers would be left outside. No work would be performed on boats outside. In the last 18 years, there is now, currently, boats outside, trailers outside, and boats stored in the barn. When we were originally contacted on this, we told Dunham's Bay Boat Company that they would have to request to amend their variance. After talking to their attorney, and some conversations went back and forth, we found out that boat storage is allowed in an LC-42 zone, which is the use they currently have there. In order to expand that use, which they currently have, now, they would need Site Plan approval. They were before the Planning Board, last night, for Site Plan approval and were tabled. MR. GORALSKI-For the third time. MR. HATIN-For the third time. Along with that has come this interpretation. The neighbors are claiming that they're running a quick launch facil ity and boat sales out of this boat storage area. That's their claim, and I think that's what you have before you. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. HATIN-The letter they submitted to me, I don't know if the Board has a copy of that, do they, John? MR. GORALSKI-I don't believe so. MR. HATIN-Okay, the letter they submitted to me, if you want me to quickly sum it up, I'll just read what they requested from me. Our request to the Zoning Board of Appeals, which, they originally were going to appeal this directly to you for interpretation. We told them that they had to, I had to rule on it, then if they wanted to appeal that they could, so the wording is not correct, but they questions are there. Our request to the Zoning Board of Appeals is for interpretation of the Zoning Ordinance to determine whether, Number One, is a boat storage facility the same, or part of a mari na? Is a qui ck 1 aunch facil ity the same or part of a boat storage faci 1 ity? And, the thi rd question, which is the question you have before you tonight, Is a quick launch facility or marina, for boat sales, allowable in a 42 acre zone in Queensbury? And they go on to say, our contention is the Dunham's Bay Special Permit Boat Storage Facility has become a boat sales and quick launch facility. These uses are not allowed in an LC 42 acre zone and, therefore, a violation of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Ordinance. You have my response back to them, and I guess I'll skip to right to the third, Number Three, of the response, because that's what they've asked you to appeal. This took quite a lot of time to get back to them. I asked Karla to do some research. We can find no case law to back up any position, here. If it makes the Board happier, I would be appealed either way, that I ruled on this. So, I'd be here before you, no matter what I ruled. As I stated, their third question, "is a quick launch facility or marina for boat sales allowable in an LC 42 Zone?" The first part of the question. I broke this up into, basically, three segments, okay. The first part of the question, a quick launch facility would not be allowed in an LC 42 Zone. If you look at the Defi niti on for our current Ordi nance, under Qui ck Launch Facil i ty, it states that it wi 11 be a part of a marina, and it means that, and I'll state it right from the Definition 228 of the Ordinance, "Quick Launch Facility means a commercial facility located within a marina, where vessels are stored, launched, or stored again individually for a period of less than one (1) week at a time." And I ask you to remember that, period of less than one week, alright, that's what a Quick Launch Facility is. So, the answer to the first part was, no, it would not be allowed in an LC 42 Acre Zone. So, I did agree with them on that part of it, a Quick Launch Facility would not. However, in talking to Dunham's Bay, talking to John Salvador, a neighbor, and not really getting any proof positive that they are quick launching, here, no documented records, no letters from any witnesses or anything like that, just their assumption that it is being used as a Quick Launch Facility, I determined that it was not being used as a Quick Launch Facility because, by John Salvador's explanation to me, one day, when I went up there, he has customers that come up for one week or two weeks out of the summer, they store their boat there. They take the boat out of storage, plop it in the water, take it out when they leave, and go back and they don't see them for another year. That was the only thing John told me. There was no mention of them going up, taking boats out, dropping them in the water, bringing them back up the same day or within that period of one week, and putting them 27 back in rack storage. So, I have no proof of that and I couldn't rule on it, because I have no proof before me, and I haven't been presented with any documentation, to date. The second part was the sales, and this was a difficult one. I asked Karla to see if she could find any case law as to when a sale occurs or what constitutes a sale, and where does that sale take place, constitute sales of boats. I did find out, in talking to Dunham's Bay Boat Company and neighbors, that they do store boats there for sale. That is not a bone of contention between anybody. The boats are up there, are for sale, some of them, not all of them, but some of them. I don't know what the majority is, but I know that there are boats for sale up there. My initial reaction was, possibly, they are selling boats out of there, but then, the more I began to think about it, I said, when does a sale actually occur? So, I decided, I was out looking for boats, this spring, so I went up there, one Sunday, with my family, and I said, I'll find out exactly how this works. I went up there, talked to a salesman. He showed me catalogues, showed me boats in the showroom. The color that I was looking for, he didn't have in the showroom. So he said, but I do have a boat up in the Boat Storage Facility that I could take you up, show you what the color would look like. He drives my family up there, and myself, in their station wagon, shows me the color, and drives us back down to the marina. We negotiate for a sale, at the marina, to see if we can work a deal. While we were up there, we did talk colors. We didn't talk sales. We didn't talk pricing. All the, basically, transaction, to buy the boat was held at the marina. So, therefore, I detennined that, because there is no office in the Boat Storage Facility, no sales office, no cashiers, no paperwork of any kind done in the boat sales area, I felt that was no different than taking a car dealership who has a stock lot, somewhere, separate, and taking you down, oh, well, I don't have that particular car in the lot, but I can take you to my other lot and show you where it is, but all the sales occur at the mari na. The final transactions, the signing of paperwork, the exchange of monies all occur at the marina. So, therefore, I detennined that, because there was no office, no personnel, at the Boat Storage Facil ity, that they were not using it, that they could store boats for sale there, but they, indeed, could not sell boats there, in a 42 Acre Zone. It was my conclusion that they were not selling boats there. They were simply storing the boats that are for sale, there. All the transactions take place at the marina. MRS. GOETZ-Okay, so we're talking about that, is there some barn that's up off of that winding, little, tiny road? MR. TURNER-Yes. MRS. GOETZ-Is that the whole thing? MR. HATlN-Yes, they do have a storage building, that's it, and there's boats stored outside, around it. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. HATlN-It's not an easy question to answer, because a lot of it hinges on when the sale occurs, I think. MR. CARR-I disagree with your interpretation, Dave, because I think it's part of a showroom. I mean, the sale occurs throughout the puffi ng of the item and the color of it is one of them, and actually looking at the boat. MR. HATlN-Okay, the other thing I left out is, because I didn't go through the first two, if you look at the definition for Boat Storage, it says nothing about boats for sale, in there. It doesn't say that they can't be in there. It doesn't prohibit boat storage of boats for sale. It just says, boats, commercial means, a place, site or structure, used to park, house, or store, on anyone lot, more than three vessels, excepting canoes and row boats, sailboats under 18 feet, including any rental or private residential. It doesn't say anything about sales. It doesn't prohibit it. MR. SICARD-Dave, isn't that pretty nonnal, though, all the marinas around? MR. HATlN-1 would say it's nonnal for any type sales business, where you're talking boats, cars, trucks, whatever. I mean, they all have lots. MR. SICARD-Bolton Landing, and Lake George and so forth. MR. HATIN-Yes. They all have lots where they do it. MR. SICARD-They all sell boats. MR. TURNER-Yes. You can go to Warrensburg, Warren Ford, there. They store their trucks and excess cars, new cars, up on 9, up by the County Building. Chrysler Dealer, the same thing. MR. HATlN-Yes. MRS. GOETZ-So, the Use Variance in '73. Was it '73? 28 MR. HATIN- That was '72, a Special Use Permit, would have probably been the same as Site Plan Review, now. MRS. GOETZ-Right, the Special Use Permit, but was that just for that building that's up, that we're talking about? MR. HATIN-At the time, it was conditioned that they could not have anything outside the building. MR. TURNER-That was a permitted use in the zone, only by special permit. MRS. GOETZ-Right, and we don't have special permit anymore, but how does it work? MR. TURNER-The Planning Board does it. MRS. GOETZ-They have a special permit? MR. TURNER-They have it, yes. MR. CARR-Dave, can I ask, where is this Boat Storage Facility? It's not right at the marina? MR. HATIN-No, it's across the road, on Route 9L. There's a little, like, looks like, driveway that goes up in the woods, between some houses. That's actually a road that goes up into this Boat Storage Facility. It's a right-of-way between properties, to get to the property owned by Dunham's Bay Boat Company. MRS. GOETZ-Was that also a violation, a lot of parking that goes on up there? MR. HATIN-Well, that's their contention. Their contention is the parking of excess boats, right now, is in violation of their Special Use Permit. However, because now it's an allowed use, boat storage is an allowed use, there is no, all they have to do is get Site Plan approval, and there is no conditions put on it, unless the Planning Board wants to put conditions on it. MRS. GOETZ-What about parking, people that are out on the Lake? MR. HATIN-As far as I know. There are no parking of vehicles up there, and that's never been discussed. MRS. GOETZ-It hasn't? MR. HATIN-No. MRS. GOETZ-Because I've heard it talked about, in the past. MR. HATIN-If they did, they haven't relayed that to me, because there's never been any mention of cars. MRS. GOETZ-Okay, but does that go on, if you've been there in the summer? MR. HATIN-I've been there. I didn't see any vehicles there. I've just seen boats. MR. GORALSKI-I've been there, several times. I've never seen any cars parked up there. MRS. GOETZ-Okay, so, when the new zoning went into effect, that superseded the Special Permitted Use? MR. HATIN-Right, basically, if you want to look at it, it took a use that may not have been allowed and now made it allowable, with Site Plan Review. So, in order to maintain the use that they have, my ruling is that they have to have Site Plan Review, which they are in for, right now, and if they shoul d get that approval, then they woul d be allowed to keep what they've got. If they get deni ed, then, obviously, they're going to have to go back to their Special Use Permit. MRS. GOETZ-The purpose of Site Plan Review is to get control of the situation, I think. MR. HATIN-Well, yes, there's a number of issues. MRS. GOETZ-And that seems like a good way to do it. MR. CARR-Well, that was the purpose of a Special Use Permit, also. MRS. GOETZ-Right. MR. CARR-Usually, a Special Use Permit is meant for a use that is allowed in the zone, but they just want to make sure that it's properly addressed, at the time. 29 MR. TURNER-All conditioned right, addressed, right, it doesn't alter the character of the neighborhood. MR. CARR-I mean, it's the same thing as Site Plan. It's a less standard than even a Use Variance. I mean, it's almost, you can't deny a Special Use Permit, but you can put conditions on it. MR. HATIN-It's a formality that you have to go through, right. MR. CARR-And I think that's what the Site Plan is doing. MR. TURNER-You can deny it. You can deny it. MR. CARR-Right, but, I mean, it's tough to do. The City denied the one for Vece. It's got less standards than even an Area Variance. MR. TURNER-Yes, it's got less standards, absolutely. MRS. GOETZ-It sounds like the neighbors are objecting to the quick launch? Is this it? MR. HATIN-There are a lot of behind the scenes issues that are not before this Board, and a lot that are not before any Board, a lot of neighbor problems, a lot of unfriendly neighbors, I guess, is the best way to put it, and some bones of contention about the right-of-way, and the use of the right- of-way. So, it's a more complicated issue than just this Boat Storage Facility, but they want to see if they can 1 imi t the use of thi s property, through, ei ther the Board's, myself, or some means, that's what they're out to do. MR. TURNER-Isn't it a fact that Salvador has an easement to that? MR. HATIN-I don't know that for a fact. MR. TURNER-And Howard has an easement to that? MR. HATIN-Howard does. I don't know if Salvador does. MR. TURNER-Yes, I think I read it some place. MR. HATIN-I don't know if Salvador does. MR. TURNER-In one of the papers, it was given out. MR. GORALSKI-There are several people who have easements over that road. MR. TURNER-That have easements over that road, yes. MR. GORALSKI-Yes. I'm not sure, exactly, who, but several people do. MR. HATIN-Believe it or not, the road that runs down by the marina is a Town road. MR. TURNER-Yes, that's the old road. MRS. GOETZ-So, in Item Three of your letter, you're saying that they can't operate that quick launch that, supposedly, is going on in that building? MR. HATIN-Well, my response to them was, is they provided me with no proof that there's a quick launch there. All they said is that they're using it for quick launch, but I see no proof and I've gotten no proof. All I know is I've talked to one of the neighbors, John Salvador, who tells me that his customers store thei r boats there, when they come up from wherever. The boat is in the water for a week or two, and then it's back in storage for almost a year. MRS. GOETZ-How would you go about getting proof? MR. HATIN-They're going to have to provide me with documentation, license plates, the registrations on boats that go in, the times of day went in, times of day they came out. I mean, it's not something where I'm going to physically sit there and watch each boat. They're going to have to provide me with the proof. They're the ones that are saying the violation exists, not me. MRS. GOETZ-You mean the surrounding neighbors? MR. HATIN-The surrounding neighbors. MRS. GOETZ-What about the burden upon the owner of the property, the Howards? MR. HATIN-He's claiming, so far, he's made no claim that he is. MRS. GOETZ-Would he be able to give the information that you need, that you're saying that you need, from the people that are complaining? 30 - MR. HATIN-As far as I know, he's contending he is not doing quick launch facility. MR. CARR-How could he document a negative, that I'm not doing it? MRS. GOETZ-Well, it does seem like, there's got to be, where there's smoke, there's fire. MR. HATIN-As Karla can testify, the burden of proof is usually on the complainant, am I not right, Karla? MR. TURNER-Yes. MS. CORPUS-Dave's interpretation was a general one, of Quick Launch Facilities, but not related, specifically, to this particular site. So, that's really not an issue, at this particular time. MR. HATIN-I did agree with them, in the fact that a Quick Launch Facility would not be allowed here, however, the infonnation that I have does not show that a Quick Launch Facility is being operated there. MR. CARR-I think Dave's given them the definition. Now it's up to them to apply the definition to the situation to detennine what's there. MR. TURNER-Right. MR. HATIN-Right, and give me the proof. MRS. GOETZ-So, we just have to say whether we think Quick Launch is part of a marina? MR. HATIN-We11, I've already stated it's not. MRS. GOETZ-Yes, but, I mean.... MR. HATI N-We 11 , I mean, Quick Launch, by definition, is a part of a marina, by definition. I don't think it's part of a Boat Storage Facility. MR. GORALSKI-I don't think they're arguing with Dave's interpretation that a Quick Launch is not allowed in the LC 42 Zone. They're problem is, first of all, one problem is, is there a Quick Launch there? MR. CARR-How do we know? MR. GORALSKI-Right. MR. HATIN-And you have nobody here, tonight, to state anything, so. MR. GORALSKI-I don't know. I guess you would have to decide if you have any evidence, or if you even have jurisdiction to decide that, whether a Quick Launch is being operated and then, secondly, they were asking you to detennine whether or not sales are occurring on that site and whether or not sales are allowed on that site. MR. SICARD-That road's been in there a long time. If they drive slow, it's not a Quick Launch, is it, Da ve ? MR. HATIN-I really don't know if Dunham's Bay does Quick Launch. I really don't know. MR. SICARD-l've never seen any there. tha t road's been in there for a lot of contention. Dr. Fielding lived on that It was the same thing. I'm not sitting there all the time, like you, either, but years, going up through there. It's always been a bone of road, at one time, it was the same. This is 30 years ago. MR. HATIN-My only question is, why wait 18 years to bring it to our attention? MR. SICARD-They just don't want anybody going up and down there. MR. HATIN-There are a lot of complicated issues here, unfortunately. This is just one of them. MR. CARR-So, they're asking us to detennine whether or not there is Quick Launching going on? Is that the question? MR. GORALSKI-Well, I'm not sure that that's within the purview of this Board. MR. GOETZ-Which we can't do. 31 MR. TURNER-No. MR. CARR-I don't know what they're asking us to do? MS. CORPUS-Legally, the Board would not be able to answer that question, in that, again, the Zoning Administrator, of the Building Department, in this case, has not made that deten11ination, itself, and there has been nothing to appeal from, at this point. MR. CARR-Well, he's made a deten11ination that there is not, based on the infon11ation. MR. HATIN-Based on the infon11ation I've had presented to me. MR. CARR-So, they're appealing from that deten11ination, but, yet, they have no facts on which to base the appeal. MS. CORPUS-Correct, I guess that could be an interpretation. MR. TURNER-He answered the question in the first part. He said, a Quick Launch is not allowed in an LC 42 Acre Zone, alright. MR. GORALSKI-Right. MR. HATIN-Right, and if they were able to show me proof that that is going on, then I would have to let Dunham's Bay Boat Company know it must cease. MR. TURNER-And the second part of the question is, it J2. allowed in a marina. MR. HATIN-By definition. MR. TURNER-By definition, and the other part of the question is sales. Sales lot, is a sales lot allowed in a 42 Acre Zone? MR. CARR-Is the Boat Launch Facility in the 42 Acre Zone? MR. GORALSKI-No. MR. CARR-It's not? MR. HATIN-No, it's at the marina. MR. CARR-No, okay, I'm sorry, Boat Storage. MR. GORALSKI-The Boat Storage is in the LC 42 Zone. MR. CARR-Okay, and the Marina's in what zone? MR. GORALSKI-WR-IA. MR. TURNER-WR-IA, yes. MR. GORALSKI-Okay, what I would suggest you do, is address each one separately, kind of the way Dave did. First of all, Dave had deten11ined that a Quick Launch is not allowed in the LC 42 Zone. Does the Board agree with that? MR. TURNER-Yes, absolutely. MR. GORALSKI-Then, the Board wi 11 have to decide if you want to address the question of whether or not a Quick Launch is taking place in the LC 42 Zone. MR. CARR-But the LC 42 is the Storage Faci 1 ity. MR. GORALSKI-That's correct. MR. HATIN-Ri ght. MR. CARR-That's not on water. MR. HATIN-Ri ght. MR. GORALSKI-That's correct. 32 MRS. EGGLESTON-So, how could you Quick Launch from there? MR. HATIN-Well, if I explain a Quick Launch to you in a very simple, they take the boat out of the rack storage, place it on a trailer, drive it down to the water's edge. MR. CARR-It's not day use, then? MR. HATIN-Could be. Quick Launch is day use. MR. CARR-I mean, it's not only coming up from Albany, towing a boat. MR. HATIN-Right. MR. GORALSKI-No. It's people who are storing, in this context, it's people who store their boat in rack storage, for example, okay, they call up from Albany, before they leave, and they say, we're going to be there at twelve o'clock, have my boat ready. They get there at twelve and, in the meantime, the people from the boat company go up, take the boat off the storage, bring it down, put it in the water. The people use it for the day. They get out, and the people from the boat company take the boat and put it back up in storage. MR. CARR-Okay. MR. TURNER-That's Quick Launch. MR. CARR-So, Dave's interpretation is that they're doing that, using that storage facility, that's a violation. MR. TURNER-That's right, jjl they're doing it. MR. GORALSKI-lJ[ they are doing that, correct. MR. HATIN-Correct. MR. CARR-Now, if they're taking those boats down and they're staying in the water for more than a week,..... MR. HATIN-Then it's not a Quick Launch. MR. GORALSKI-Then it's not a Quick Launch. MR. CARR-Then it's not a violation, okay, and we don't have evidence, either way, at this point. MR. HATIN-Right. MR. TURNER-No. MR. CARR-Okay, now I'm getting clear. MR. EGGLESTON-Yes, you clarified that. MR. GORALSKI-Okay, now, the second side of this is the sales. First, of all, you should detennine if sales is allowed in the LC 42 Zone, and then, the second side of that, is, are there sales occurring on this lot? MR. TURNER-I don't think we could answer that. We can answer the first part, but we can't answer the second part. MR. GORALSKI-Well, you should answer what you can. MR. SICARD-I think a sale transpires when you pay money. MS. CORPUS-In the Board's resolution, it could make that notation, that there is not sufficient infonnation to otherwise decide this matter, and, therefore, you cannot overturn Mr. Hatin's ruling. MR. KELLEY-Could you base anything on, I mean, I don't know this for a fact, but, they sell Sea Ray boats, okay. 11m assuming that if you're going to be a Sea Ray Representative and Dealer, you have to provide certain things to your customers, meaning a sales office, a telephone, a place to display literature and so forth. If they didn't have any of those things at that facility, I don't think they could be a sales representative for Sea Ray, for example, alright, but if they have that down in the building, what is their showroom, that, in my mind, would be the thing that would say, that's the qualified sales office and qualifies them for being a representative of that company. 33 ~ MR. SICARD-That's the way it is. MR. HATIN-And that was my feeling. MR. KELLEY-I mean, I agree with what you're saying, Dave. You go up and look at a boat, you're selling it down below. MR. HATIN-It's not an easy question to answer. Unfortunately, we don't have any case law to back it up, either way, but if you go by definition of Boat Storage, it does not refer to boats for sale are prohibited, it says just, Boat Storage. So, you can store boats for any reason, as far as I'm concerned. MR. TURNER- Yes. MR. HATIN-The fact that you bring people up there, and it's like I told the neighbors. I said, what woul d be the di fference if they store the boat there, bri ng it down to the ma ri na, a 1 ri ght, show you that boat and then bri ng it back up and store it again, or we bri ng the peopl e and cut down on traffic, but the traffic will still be there, that part of it's not going to change, and I don't feel that that's sales. I feel that that's showing you what they have. The sale actually occurs when you buy the boat, and that occurs at the marina, not at the boat storage facility, and I tested the system, so I know how it works. MR. KELLEY-I agree with you. I think you're right. MRS. EGGLESTON-I agree, too. MR. HATIN-And they didn't realize it, at the time, but that's, basically, what I was doing, even though I did buy a boat from somebody else. Fortunately, I didn't buy the boat that I wanted there, but, to get in the middle this, otherwise, I don't know what I'd do. MRS. EGGLESTON-So, we're in agreement on the sales part of it? MR. TURNER-Let's do them one at a time. Let's take his interpretation of a Quick Launch, first. A Quick Launch is not allowed in an LC 42 Acre Zone. Does everybody agree with that? MR. CARR-Yes. MRS. GOETZ-Yes. MR. GORALSKI-I think you should make a motion and vote on each one of these. MR. TURNER-We will. MR. HATIN-The only thing I would ask, on that particular question, is that the Board note that I also came up with the same ruling. MR. TURNER- Yes. MR. CARR-So, we agree with your interpretation of the Quick Launch. MR. TURNER-Yes, and we can address it in that respect. Alright, how about sales? A sales lot is not allowed in an LC 42 Acre Zone. Does everybody agree with that? MR. SICARD-You're talking about up the hill, now? MR. TURNER-Up on the hill. MR. SICARD-Okay. MR. TURNER-That's LC 42, the Marinas, Waterfront Residential. MR. HATIN-Mr. Turner, if I understand you, you're saying boat sales is not allowed in an LC 42 Acre Zone? MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. HATIN-Right. MR. CARR-Can I ask, where are boat sales allowed, in what zone? MR. GORALSKI-In a Marina. MR. TURNER-The Marina. 34 MR. GORALSKI-Which would be in the WR Zone. MR. HATIN-Which is by definition, also. MR. CARR-In a what zone? MR. KELLEY-What is it, a WR, Dave? MRS. GOETZ-It's a Waterfront Residential. MR. TURNER-Waterfront Residential. MRS. GOETZ-And where does it say that? MR. GORALSKI-Well, actually, it doesn't say that. Marinas are not an allowable use anymore. MR. TURNER-Anywhere. MR. GORALSKI-Okay, marinas are preexisting nonconforming uses. However, if you look at the definition of a marina, it includes boat sales. MR. TURNER-Definition includes Boat Sales. MRS. GOETZ-Page 17. MR. CARR-But now you're saying that, technically, there's no place, in this Ordinance, for Boat Sales. MR. TURNER-No, for marinas. MRS. GOETZ-For marinas. MR. CARR-Only if it's a preexisting, nonconforming use. MR. GORALSKI-That's correct. MR. CARR-But, I mean, if somebody came in and said, I want to sell boats.... MR. GORALSKI-Highway Commercial. MR. CARR-We'd have to tell them Highway Commercial? MR. TURNER-Highway Commercial. MR. CARR-Okay. MRS. GOETZ-Like the one that does it through his marina. MR. TURNER-Yes. MRS. GOETZ-But his other place isn't Highway Commercial. MR. CARR-Okay, I just want to make sure, that, say, a commercial greenhouse is allowable, you know, we're saying a lot of commercial is allowed in an LC 42. MR. GORALSKI-Right. MR. CARR-So, I want to make sure that boats are considered, somewhere, so that they can't say, well, if they can't be here, where can they be. MR. GORALSKI-It would be a retail sales. MR. CARR-A retail sale. MR. HATIN-Similar to vehicle, automotive sales, same thing. MR. CARR-Okay, alright, then I'd agree. MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay, then, we agree. MR. TURNER-Okay, let's make a motion. 35 tl)TION TO CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING FACTS, IN RESPONSE TO A LEITER FROM JOHN SCHRINER, MILDRED WOODIN, EARL SHORTSLEEVES, JOHN SALVADOR, AND GILBERT BOEHM. FIRST, QUESTION NUMBER ONE, IN THEIR LETTER, QUICK LAUNCH, A QUICK LAUNCH IS NOT AN ALLOWED USE IN AN LC-42 ZONE. WE AGREE WITH tII. HATIN'S INTERPRETATION ON THAT. THE OTHER QUESTION IS SALES. THE SALE OF BOATS IS NOT AN ALLOWED USE IN AN LC-42 ZONE. WE AGREE WITH tII. HATIN'S INTERPRETATION ON THAT. AS FAR AS QUICK LAUNCH, AS IDENTIFIED AS HAPPENING ON THE PREMISES, WE DO NOT HAVE SUFFICIENT INFORMATION TO SAY THAT THAT IS OCCURRING IN THE LC-42 ACRE lONE, Introduced by Theodore Turner who moved for its adopti on, seconded by Bruce Carr: Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1990, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Kelley, Mr. Sicard, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Carr, Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Shea MR. GORALSKI-I think you may want to address whether those actions, those uses, are taking place on the Dunham's Bay Boat Company parcel, within the LC 42 Zone. MR. CARR-I think we can only address the fact that we don't have facts constituting, enough to answer the question. MRS. EGGLESTON-Right. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. HATIN-Can I ask the Board one question? I did relate to you that they ~ store boats for sale in the LC 42 Acre Zone. Would you agree that that is not a violation, or would you disagree? MR. KELLEY-I don't think it's a violation. MR. TURNER-It's not a violation. MR. HATIN-The storage only, the storage, we're talking, of boats for sale. MR. TURNER-It's an allowed use in it. MR. KELLEY-It's boat storage. MR. TURNER-Commercial storage. MRS. EGGLESTON-So, not only do you take them up to show them the color, you may take them up to show them a boat that's actually for sale? MR. HATIN-Right. They may see the boat they want to buy. MR. CARR-I have trouble with that. MRS. GOETZ-I do, too. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. KELLEY-The thing that the people that are ralslng these questions have to realize is, are they better off allowing someone to ride up in a station wagon and look at this boat, or would they rather have them load it on a 1 ift truck and bri ng thi s thi ng down thi s road to show somebody? I mean, I think that's pretty dumb on their part. MR. EGGLESTON-But that's not the question. MR. KELLEY-Yes, well, that's the alternative that's going to happen. MRS. EGGLESTON-That is the alternative, but that's not what..... MR. TURNER-What do you have a problem with? MR. CARR-I think, commercial boat storage, to me, is an allowed use, but that's, you're storing, for rent, somebody else's boat. You are not storing your own boats for sale, because that's a retail sale location. MR. SICARD-It could be their boat, if they took it in trade. 36 ~ MR. CARR-Yes, well, that's a different situation, but Dave's saying that they have boats up there for sale. To me, that is the showroom of a retail establishment. MR. TURNER-That's fine, but the sales office is in a Waterfront Residential Zone. MR. CARR-But I think the showroom is part of the sale. It's all part of it. I mean, if you see the boat you want... MR. SICARD-Basically, you're talking about up on the hill, now. That's not a showroom, really. MRS. GOETZ-What would you call it? MRS. EGGLESTON-What would you call it? MR. HATIN-It's a field with boats in it. MR. KELLEY-They're storing it there. MR. SICARD-I know they take in boats for sale. I know they take in boats for trade. Every time they sell a new boat, they almost take one in for trade. MR. CARR-Sure, but then it becomes their boat, that's not commercial storage. They are not charging themselves rent. MRS. EGGLESTON-These are brand new boats, am I right, Dave? MR. HATIN- There are, as Mr. Sicard says, used boats, they take in, in trade, boats that they have, brand new and boats that they have acquired. MR. CARR-Would you allow a used car lot, or a new car lot in an LC 42 Zone, if they put the office down on Quaker Road, but they can store 100 cars up there. MR. SICARD-They're, basically, doing the same thing. Now, they have a marina, I don't know if you're aware of it, in Plattsburgh, and all the boats, Dave, I believe, knows this, all the boats that go into Plattsburgh are going to Dunham's Bay, first. The new boats are sold there, and then the old boats are brought back from Plattsburgh and put into storage and, I presume, up on the hill, unless they're sold. So, there's buying and selling boats by remote control, also, because the marina is in Plattsburgh. MRS. EGGLESTON-How do you reason the new boats, as a showroom for new boats? MR. SICARD-That's, nonnally, down in their showroom. The new boats, they try to get them in their showroom. MRS. EGGLESTON-But he's saying they are up in the storage. So, what does that do? MR. CARR-Dave, did he say anything about the color, to entice you, when you were looking at the color of the boats? MR. HATIN-No. MR. CARR-He didn't talk to you at all? MR. HATIN-Well, I mean, they did. They said, these are the other colors we have. MR. CARR-So, that's part of the sale. MR. HATIN-But we did not get into, we did not really talk monies or anything like that. MR. CARR-Well, see, I think sale entails... MR. HATIN-If I can just get back to the definition of Boat Storage, for a minute. MR. SICARD- It's not a sale until you put your money and they give you a piece of paper, and that's done down below, and the salesmen don't confi nn the sale, just 1 i ke the automobil e dealer, until the go and talk to somebody. MS. CORPUS-Mr. Chairman, if I might make one practical suggestion. If the Board wishes, they could sort of partition that part of the resolution off, vote on the existing part of the resolution and, perhaps, discuss this matter in a separate resolution or separate discussion. MR. CARR-I think that would be wise. 37 MS. CORPUS-And then you would have two separate resolutions to deal with. MR. TURNER-Alright. MRS. EGGLESTON-Could we hear it (the motion) again. The second part. MR. TURNER-Do you want to hear the second part? MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. CARR-I'm not comfortable with the sales part. I mean, I know it's not allowed, but I'm not comfortable saying, well, I guess we don't have evidence. MR. TURNER-We don't. MRS. GOETZ-Why can't we just say, boat storage is allowed in LC? MR. TURNER-Nobody's testified to the fact. MR. CARR-That's true. There's no evidence. MR. TURNER-No evidence, at all. MR. CARR-But we do, Dave's told us they did it. MR. TURNER-They took him up and showed him the color. MR. CARR-Right, and that's our argument. Is that a sale or isn't it? MR. TURNER-It's not, to my way of thinking. MRS. GOETZ-It is, to mine. MR. GORALSKI-Well, why don't you do this. Why don't you take the first three parts as one motion, then somebody can make another motion on whether or not sales is occurring and you can vote on it. MS. CORPUS-She could strike the word "sales" from that last part. MR. CARR-Right. Strike the word "sales". I would vote for, there's not enough evidence that there's a Quick Launch Facility there. MR. TURNER-Alright. MR. HATIN-I think this last question of, when does a sale occur, kind of answers whether there's boat sales going on in an LC 42 Acre Zone, which is what they're asking me to detennine on, and I think the Board either agrees with my interpretation that the storing of boats for sale, on this property, by definition of Boat Storage, is allowed, because boat storage, if you read the definition, even talks about rental of dock space, for storage. So, you have an exchange of some type of monies, there, and it does not preclude sales being in boat storage, it does not say, except boats for sale, and that's the reasoning I had to take, because it's the only one I could find that I could stand behind and then I detennined the sales office is at the marina, like Mr. Kelley said, all the brochures a re at the offi ce, at the marina. All the tal ki ng and wheel i ng and dealing, if you wi 11, is done at the marina. MR. CARR-But not all of it. MR. HATIN-Well, not all of it, but a majority of it, let me say a majority of it. Obviously, they take you up, I mean, if they have a boat in stock that they would like to show you, that you may be interested in, or, if you say, what do you have in stock, they're going to take you up to this boat storage area and show you what they have in stock, but I think the wheeling and dealing is actually done at the marina, from the way I experienced it, okay, and, again, I'm only one person. MR. CARR-I think you're right. I'm sure the paperwork is all done in the office, as with any sale. MR. HATIN-And the paperwork is done there, right. MR. SICARD-Probably, the used boat comes into this, too, and that's down at the office, because that's in the Lake, nonnally. MR. HATIN-Well, that day, they did have used boats in the water, underneath their canopies, and they did have used boats still up in their boat storage facility. 38 -- MR. SICARD-No, but if a man is buying a nel'l boat and he has his used boat, they're going to, may want to see that used boat, and that's in the water, and that's done down at the main office. MR. HATIN-That may be. Un that particular day, I drove my boat there. MR. SICARD-Yes, same thing. MRS. GOETZ-But isn't the problem, the possible expansion? MR. TURNER-No, let me ask you this question. LC 42 Zone, right? A guy has a boat storage facility, off premise, 10 miles down the road from the marina. He takes you down there to show you a boat, the color of it, we'll say, like Dave said, or some other aspect of it. You want to look at the boat. You're not satisfied with looking at the brochure. You want to look at the boat, physically. Do you consider that a sale? MR. CARR-Part of it. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes, that's kind of your whole operation. MR. TURNER-There's no sale until you sign the contract. MRS. EGGLESTON-But you're selling all the while you're there. MR. CARR-I think we're defining "sale" as the whole, from start to finish, from the time you walk in to say, gee, I might want to buy a boat, to the time you actually sign and give your money. Where you're saying, the sale is only when you give your money. MR. TURNER-That's right. MR. CARR-But I think part of a sale, in a commercial sense, is also the showroom, the pumping about the benefits of this boat, the beautiful colors, you know, look at the lines on this baby, you know, that, to me, is all part of the sale and that's selling. MR. TURNER-That's a sales pitch, but that's not a sale. MR. SICARD-That's a sales pitch. I think, when we buy a car, we do the same thing. MR. TURNER-That's the same thing. MR. SICARD-We go in a lot of places and look at a lot of cars, but when we get down with the money, that's the sale. MR. TURNER-That's the sale. That's when the sale is consummated and terminated. MRS. GOETZ-But why would they want that place where they're keeping their models, if it wasn't part of the sale? They would do away with it and say, we never want you to really see what it's going to look like, just buy it from this pamphlet. MR. CARR-Yes. Are you saying, though, also, that Dunham's Bay could get rid of their boat storage facility and just store their own boats there, for sale, they could put as many as they could fit on there, and walk people through there, or whatever, because that's not selling, the selling occurs across the street, at their office? MR. SICARD-I think they'd probably like to do that, if they had the room. MR. CARR-But you're saying they can do that. You are saying, yes, you can do that, and you're saying to anybody else who's in that zone, you can do that. MR. SICARD-You can do that with a car sales. You take down on Saratoga Road. If you go down there to buy a car, you're apt to go to about four garages before you get to look at the car you want because they're all owned by the same person. MRS. EGGLESTON-But isn't that all part of the sale? MR. CARR-Right, but that's all Highway Commercial. That's all in the proper zone. MR. HATIN-Maybe I cou1 d short cut the ni ght and make ita 1 i tt1 e shorter. I guess the bottom 1 ine is, can you store boats for sale in a boat storage facility in an LC 42 Acre or not, that is the question. MRS. GOETZ-Yes, that is the question. 39 --' MR. CARR-And I don't think you can. MR. SICARD-That's tying him up pretty hard. MR. CARR- Yes, but I thi nk the thought behi nd boat storage was for pri vate ci ti zens who want to store their boat with somebody, to put it there, not for people to store their boats there who are in the business of selling. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. TURNER-Commercial storage is, you could go both ways. MR. SICARD-How does a man sell his boat if he's got a boat in storage and he wants somebody.... MR. HATIN-If you look at the three words in boat storage, it says, to park, house, or store. MR. TURNER- Yes. MRS. GOETZ-Yes, but this is more than just that, in my opinion. MR. SICARD-I think when the sale occurs is when you sign the check. MRS. EGGLESTON-I think it's all part of the sale. I can't see this, that's it's not, because you only sign the paper. MRS. GOETZ-Do we have to get into this aspect? MR. HATIN-I believe that's going to be one of the questions. If it's not asked, it's going to be asked sooner or later because, right now, I'm saying that the boat sales is not a part of this operation because it's all conducted at the marina, other than the fact that they will take you up and show you a boat and bring you back down and then wheel and deal. MRS. GOETZ-So, do you wi sh to react to it, when thi s mi ght happen, or do you want to react to it, right now, from our Board? MR. HATIN-I think that's up to the Board. I don't know if, Karla, maybe could answer that, legally, better. MR. TURNER-I think we ought to deal with it, right now, because we can get it over with. I think Dave wants to know, has to know. MR. KELLEY-Let's look at this scenario. Let's say I've got a boat and I store it at Dunham's Bay, as I have for four years, or something, and, all of a sudden now, I decide that I'm going to sell my boat, okay, that means I've got to take it out of that facil ity and put it some place, that's what you're saying. MR. TURNER-Yes, that's what you're saying. MR. KELLEY-Where do I take it? What if I don't have a trailer? I'm going to bring it down and put it in my front yard, right? Now, can I have boat sales in my front yard? MR. CARR-I would think so. MRS. EGGLESTON-People do, allover Queensbury, one boat stuck in their front yard. MR. KELLEY-It's not permitted. It's a Residential Zone, sales are permitted there. MRS. EGGLESTON-They're there. MR. KELLEY-Yes, but, what if I did that, once a year? Now, I'm in the boat business? How often do you have to buy and sell a boat to be a dealer? MR. CARR-Until you get caught. MR. KELLEY-I don't have a problem with it. I'd<rather see the boats stored up there, then.... MR. CARR-Right, then in your front lawn, but maybe these people don't want boats for sale stored up and have people traipsing back and forth. I don't know. I think if we say that they aren't selling boats there, or that boat sales are not going on there, I could see a real problem with them just filling that with boats and, well, sales don't occur there. MRS. GOETZ-They probably already have. 40 MR. SICARD-If they have to go up there and pull those boats down, to show a boat, it's going to be a lot greater violation on that narrow driveway than it is taking somebody up, like they took Dave up and showed it to him. MRS. GOETZ-Right. I don't think anyone would argue with that. MR. TURNER-Dave, how big is that storage facility? How many boats can they house there? MR. HATIN-Do you remember the size of the building? Seventy by forty. MR. GORALSKI-That's the size of the building, right. MR. TURNER-By, how high? Three tier high? MR. HATIN-By three boats high, three tier, believe, yes. MR. SICARD-Forty, or fifty boats, probably. MR. TURNER-Okay, but they have nothing outside? MR. GORALSKI-No, outside, right now, they have about 75 boats. MR. HATIN-There's, approximately, 70 boats. MR. GORALSKI-They're in front of the Planning Board, for Site Plan Review, to have a Boat Storage Facility. MRS. GOETZ-Up on the hill? MR. GORALSKI-Up on the hill. MR. HATIN-Basically, maintain what they have, right now, is what they're asking. MR. TURNER-Maintain what they've got, yes. MRS. GOETZ-It sounds like everybody wants them to be able to keep what they're doing. I do think it's an expansion. MR. HATIN-I would disagree. The neighbors want it to go back to the Special Use Pennit. If they have their way, that's what they want to see. MRS. GOETZ-But that can't be. MR. HATIN-But that can't be, now, because there has been an Ordinance change which does allow Boat Storage, that's up to the Planning Board, now, whether they want to allow the storage, as is, or not. The only thing, I think Mr. Kelley kind of hit it on the nose, we can turn that into a Boat Storage Facility very easily. We can say that no sales will occur on the property, and, in order for them to have sales, they must bring the boat down off the property and strictly store the boat there. Then I think that takes care of the part that you're talking about, which, if you look at it, it's ki nd of a Catch 22. It's the 1 esser of two evil s because, ri ght now, they dri ve peopl e up there and they drive them down. Now, you're talking about bringing a boat and a trailer and a vehicle down the road, negotiating, showing the people, and bringing it back up and maybe they don't like that one. They want to see the other color, so now they've got to go back up and get the other color. You're talking about increasing traffic, and that's how I looked at it. I think we, basically, have to break it down, is, we're going to have that traffic there, whether you constitute a sale or not, the problem is, when does the sale constitute itself, and that's why I said, when you consummate the sale, to me, that's boat sales, and where that occurs, that's boat sales, because they don't have any facilities up there, other than the boats are stored there. There is no office. There is no paperwork conducted there. There's nothing up there that even resembles a sales office. MR. CARR-I can see the practical effects, I guess, I just want to make sure that we're aware that if we say storage is not part of the sale, there may be more far reaching effects to this, I mean, in this zone. MRS. EGGLESTON-Big trouble. MS. CORPUS-You could limit it to this particular application. MR. CARR-But I don't think we can, because if we say that, for this application, sales are not going on because they aren't doing any paperwork, consummating up there, I mean, how can we limit that just to Dunham's Bay? I mean, then, somebody else is going to say, well, I want to store boats there, well, no, you're selling, but they aren't? 41 '- MR. HATIN-I will tell you this, perfectly honestly, any place we have boat storage in this Town, right now, boats for sale are in those facilities, that I will tell you. MRS. GOETZ-Definitely, that's why it's a big bunch of bull, this whole thing. MR. KELLEY-What if you made the interpretation that you can't have boats for sale, there. In other words, that's the way you've interpreted the Ordinance or whatever. Now, can you go back and give them some kind of a Use Variance? MR. HATIN-They would have to apply for a variance, to this Board, to have boats for sale in that a rea. MR. KELLEY-And now you can control them, by means of a variance, with certain stipulations. Here's what we're going to allow you to do, but that doesn't mean you've got to give it to everybody else. MR. HATIN-That would be one reasoning, I guess. MR. SICARD-You've just got to bring the cash register up there, then, that's all. MR. KELLEY-No, I'm saying, then let come back and get a variance that allows them to show boats that are stored there, that are for sale. MR. SICARD-You can't say you've purchased a boat, until you've paid for it. MR. HATIN-Also, when you do that, you would allow them to bring in offices, in any part of boat sales. MRS. EGGLESTON-Well, just because they didn't sign any papers up there, with Dave, doesn't mean that, if they were extremely busy, and there were people all over the place, that a salesman couldn't consummate a deal up in the storage building. MR. SICARD-Normally, the way a boat salesman, if you're talking about that kind of money, and there's boat sales up there over $100,000. They've got to go back and get the okay to sell it. MR. TURNER-When you consummate a deal at a car dealership, usually, for a car, the salesman has to take it in to the manager, and have it okayed and then he comes back out and says... MR. CARR-Ted, I would be willing to vote to say that there's not enough evidence to determine whether there are sales going on. I'm not saying that sales, I still don't think they're allowed there and I'm not saying what a sale is, but I don't think there is enough evidence before this Board. MR. TURNER-I think, myself, I think a sale is terminated when you put your John Henry on the line and you give them the check, then you bought the boat, you have purchased that vehicle. MR. CARR-I won't agree with that. MRS. EGGLESTON-No, I don't either. MR. CARR-I won't agree with that. I'll just say, right now, that, to me, there's not enough evidence to make that determination. MR. SICARD-You go home and say you bought a boat and you didn't give a check on it or anything else, you didn't buy a boat. MR. TURNER-You didn't buy the boat. MR. CARR-It doesn't mean I wasn't trying to be sold. 1I)1I0N THAT THERE IS NOT ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO DETERMINE WHETHER SALES ARE OCCURRING ON THE LC-42 ACRE BOAT STORAGE FACILITY LOT, Introduced by Bruce Carr who moved for its adoption, seconded by Charles Sicard: Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1990, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Sicard, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Carr, Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Kelley, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Shea 42 ~ ---- On motion meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Theodore Turner, Chairman 43 . - '- -../ TOWN OF QUEENSBURY pt_nning Department -NOTE TO FILE- Mrs. Lee A. York, Senior Planner Mr. John S. Goralski, Planner Mr. Stuart G. Baker, Assistant Planner Date: October 17, 1990 By: Lee A. York X Area VariaDce - Use Variance - Sip Variance == Interpretation Other: SubcliYiaioa: Sketch, _ PrelimiDary, Site Plan Review - - Petition for a CbaDge of Zone - Freshwater WetlaDda Permit FiDal ApplicatioD Number: Area Variance No. 47-1990 Bessie Callejo Applicant's Name: MeetiDg Date: October 17, 1990 ............................................................................................ This application was tabled pending information from the applicant as to possible alternatives for placement of the house on the proposed site. The applicant is requesting relief from the 100 foot setbacks required in the LC-I0A zone. The applicant has submitted a new map and a cost estimate for development of a driveway site. The applicant indicates that the CUlTent prefen-ed location is 50 feet from the front property line on Cormus Road. LA Y /sed ----------- . - '-- TOWN OF QUEENSBURY P1~ftfti"g Department -NOTE TO FILE- By: September 25, 1990 John S. Goralski Mrs. Lee A. York, Senior Planner Mr. John S. Goralski, Planner Mr. Stuart G. Baker, Assistant Planner Date: Area VariaDce --X U. Variance - Sip Variance == IDterpretation Other: SubdiYiaioa: _ Sketch, _ Prelimillary, Site Plan Re-riew Petition for a CbaDge of Zone - Freshwater WetlaDda Permit FiDal Application Number: Use Variance No. 75-1990 Applicant's Name: Glens Falls Country Club MeetiDø Date: September 26, 1990 ............................................................................................ It does not appear that the applicant has presented any evidence to meet the tests expressed in items 1 and 2 of Section 10.040B of the Zoning Ordinance. In addressing item 3, the applicant states that it is necessary to undertake minor expansions to maintain the existing facilities. Maintenance of existing facilities is a property right which is enjoyed by other property owners in the district. These variances would not be detrimental to the neighborhood. In fact, the structures in question cannot be seen from any neighboring properties because of the large setbacks. JSG/sed .----.--- -.-.,..- · - --" TOWN OF QUEENSBURY piaftftiw,g Department f -. .... (OP'( -NOTE TO FILE- Mrs. Lee A. York, Senior Planner Mr. John S. Goralski, Planner Mr. Stuart G. Baker, Assistant Planner Date: October 15, 1990 Stuart Baker By: x Area Variance U. Variance - Sign Variance == Interpretation Other: Subdi"risioD: _ Sketch, _ PrelimiDary, Site Plan Rmew - Petition fer a Change of Zone - Freshwater WetlaDda Permit FiDal AppticatioD Number: Area V~riance No. 77-1990 Apptiamt'. Name: Kenneth L. Baker MeetiDg Date: October 17, 1990 ............................................................................................ The ap91icant is requesting a variance from the side setback require~ents in order to I:!aintain the exist in~ deck at the rear of the house. I have revie\·¡ed the application accordinß to the criteria in Article 10 of the Ordinance, and I have the fo110winp, COmT>1ents: I) The lots in this neip,hborhoocl \...ere cr~ated under the previous ordina.nce when the area \...as zoned SR-30. The e~dsting hones \olere 2'.11 builê before the change of zone in October fr( ¡g88. Strict application of the ordinance \o10u1d not deprive the ap:!?licant of ree.sonable use of the existinp, single family home. 2) Strict éI.pplication of the setback requireMents in the RR-3A zone would require the applicant to re~ove the portion of the Geck in violation. 3) The variance reouested \...olÜd not be detrimental to the ouroose of the RR-3A zone, as stated· in Section 4. 020(c) of the ordinance. . Th~ Board should determine if the vari~nce requested (24.8) ft. setback re(!.uested, 30 ft. required) is the mini~un relief necessary to e.lleviate a s-pecific practical difficulty. 4) Public ~acilities and services would not be affected. SB/P\Ol _.__.__._~~---- · - -- TOWN OF QUEENSBURY P1S11nni"K Department , . I L t l'..J -NOTE TO FILE- Mrs. Lee A. York, Senior Planner Mr. John S. Goralski, Planner Mr. Stuart G. Baker, Assistant Planner Date: October 15, 1990 By: John Goralski x Area Variance Use Variance - Sign Variance == IDterpretatioø Other: SubdiñRoø: Sketch, _ PreJimiDary, Site Plan Reriew - Petition far a Change of Zone - Freshwater WetlaDds Permit FiDal Application Number: Area Variance No. 78-1990 Applicant'. Name: Ec'.~l7ard Nort on MeetiDg Date: October 17. 1990 ............................................................................................ The a?p1icant proposes to construct a 40' x 60' garage to store tree care equipment. The proposed garage would be 10' from the rear property line. The applicant states that a variance is necessary to accommodate a structure large enough to store tree care equipment. There is no evidence that the property cannot be used for any of the allowable uses. Without knowing the dimensions of the vehicles to be stored, difficult to deternine the minimum relief necessary. Perhaps the garage be centered more on the lot and the building could be reduced slightly. would minimize the impact on neighboring properties. it is could This JG/pw . - TOWN OF QUEENSBURY rilE COpy PlAnning Department -NOTE TO FILE- By: October 15, 1990 Stuart Baker Mrs. Lee A. York, Senior Planner Mr. John S. Goralski, Planner Mr. Stuart G. Baker, Assistant Planner Date: x Area Variance Use Variance - Sign Variance == IDterpretaticm Other: Suhdi"riaioa: _ Sketch, _ PrelimiDary, Site Plan ReYiew - Petition for a CbaDge of Zone - Freshwater Wet1aDd8 Permit FiDal Application Number: Area Variance No. 79-1990 Applicant'. Name: Mrs. Alice Anoia d/b/a The Graycourt Motel MeetiDg Date: October 17, 1990 ............................................................................................ The applicant is requestinr; relief froM Section 4.033 of the ordinance ~Thich requires 8. 75 ft. setback fron Regional Arteri<1.1 P.Oé:ds. The :r>roposad nction is the construction of a laundry facility aðjp.,cent to the;~~istinf': house/ITlote1 office. I have reviewed the e.P?J.ication in accordance ~JÍth the criteria in Article 10 of the ordinance, and I have t~e followin~ co~ents: I) The exist in~ laundry faci li ty, hou.se and ryool ere all ,ree=--:ist inr: nonconforMing structures, as are other buildin.'~s in this area of Rte. 9. Strict a.pplication of the requiret'lents of the ordinanc2 vTOuld not al1o~l for the construction of a ne~l laundry facility, but wou1rl a.11O\. for continueè. use of the existing laundry bui1dinf,. 2) The Board should c1.eterrdne if the inabilit? to constrt'ct an eX:r>e.nded laundry facility constitutes a practical difficulty. 3) The purpose of the 75 ft. setback alon~ regional arterial roads (as stated in Section 4.031 ) is to provide room for the e~T e.nsion of these roads in the future. The proposed variance will not be detriITlenta1 to this pur~ose, nor ~-TÍ 11 it adversely affect nei~hborin8 property. The reMoval of the existine laundry ~.ou1d be beneficial to the property owner to the north. The applicant did not show any exist in::; or pro?osed setba.cks, so r.:lnU"Uï'. relie f cannot be determined. A pract ica1 (:1 fficulty also must be deternined. 4) Public facilities and services would not be adversely affected. sr/:r>~" --_._--~.__. \ e\ S \ 5\8 -489 2568 SEO TER WHSE ---" 99/25/90'\0'02 td ldreð woo4in 1517 Third A~·nu. watervliet, MY 12\89 september 25, 1990 FILE copy " ~fiW . ., ~ S __ f~lt~ . t~251990~ ¡~~~~NAC: a ZONI~' ,.TU....' Town of Que.nebUry Ray & "eviland Road Queen.bury, NY 12804-9'25 1ax . 192-5203 Dear MS Le. Yor~; we received a letter fro~ Mr. David Ratin regarding hi' interpretation of a quiCk launch and sales lot being allO~ed on the 42 acre tract in ~hich nunham's B~y Boat company has a storage building· we dO not agree vith his interpretatiOn therefore. we request yOU to submit our paper YOrk to the BOard of ~ppealS for their consideration. Thank yOU for your intere.t. SincerelY' Mildred "oo41n tarl Short.la.ves John salvador Gilbert. Boehm John schriner ------------ 'TOWN OF QUEENSBURY Bay at Haviland Road, Queensbury, NY 12801-9725 - 518-792-5832 ,. 1 September 20, 1990 .." ! \ (\ \\ r .... MR. JOHN SCHRINER 68 Northview Wynantskill, New York 12198 \ Dear Mr. Schriner: This letter is in reference to your July 11 request for an interpretation of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Ordinance for the Dunham's Bay Boat Company boat storage facility. After reviewing your letter and giving much thought to this response, I have concluded the following in regards to your questions: 1. Your first question was "is a boat storage facility the same or part of a marina?" As you described in your letter dated July 11, 1990, boat storage "colTll1E!rci al" means a place, site or structure used to park, house or store on anyone lot more than three (3) vessels excepting canoes, row boats or sail boats under 18 feet including any rental or private residential docks. It would be my conclusion that this is part of a marina by the fact that boats are used in a marina and stored in a marina as well as in a boat storage facility. 2. Your second questions was "is a quick launch facility the same or part of a boat storage faci 1f ty?" By definition of a quick launch facility meaning a commercial facility located within a marina where vessels are stored, launched and stored again individually for period of less than one (1) week at a time. I would have to say that a quick launch facility is not part of a boat storage facility. However, where boats are stored for periods of longer than one week, I would say that this is not considered a quick launch facility by definition and therefore although the boats may be removed from time to time, this boat storage facility is not considered part of the quick launch facility. 3. Your third question was "is a quick launch fad 1 ity or marina for boat sales allowable in an lC42 Zone?" In answer to the first part of the question, a quick launch facility would not be allowed in an lC42 Zone because boat storage is the only permitted use there. A quick launch facility by definition must be located within a marina. "HOME OF NATURAL BEAUTY. . . A GOOD PLACE TO LIVE" SETTLED 1763 I -----'-~-_.- ---- Also keeping in mind that this is when boats are removed and put in the water for periods of less than one (1) week. If boats are stored for periods longer than one week and periodically placed in the water, then this is not considered a quick launch facility. In answer to the second part of your question: "is a marina for boat sales allowable in an LC42 Zone?", I think we have to break this question apart: 1. Dunham's Bay Boat Company does store boats for sale in the boat storage facility which is allowed. 2. The next part of the question becomes "when does this sale occur". It would be my conclusion that because all transactions of paperwork and monies are conducted at the marina, that the storage of boats for sale at the boat storage facility is not a violation of the Queensbury Zoning Ordinance and therefore the boats for sale are allowed to be stored at this faci11 ty. I trust this will answer your questions adequately. If not, please respond to me in writing for clarifications or any other questions or comments you may have. Very truly yours, DAVID flATlN, DIRECTOR BLD6. I CODE ENFORCEMENT DH/jjd I v .---..--. -- .--